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Hobbseemorning all12:44
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ryanakcahey Hobbsee12:49
tomahey Hobbsee12:50
ryanakcagnomefreak: no clue, is kdevelop3 looking for kdevelop3-data or kdevelop-data? and is kdevelop-data a meta package for kdevelop3-data? (kindof like python represents the current version of python, gcc represents the current version of gcc, etc)12:51
Hobbseeryanakca: i'd guess kdevelop-data, based on that12:52
gnomefreakkdevelop3 brought in kdevelop kdevelop-data kdevelop312:52
gnomefreaklil over lap?12:52
gnomefreakbrb have to put pump back in12:53
ryanakcathink it'll work because kdevelop-data = 4:3.3.4-1ubuntu212:54
ryanakcaGet:4 http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe kdevelop3 4:3.3.2+dummy1 [9568B] 12:55
ryanakcaGet:2 http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe kdevelop 4:3.3.4-1ubuntu2 [8084kB] 12:56
ryanakcathat mean that they're the same? (I'm wondering about +dummy1...) different file sizes, mind you...12:56
gnomefreakDescription: Dummy package for transition to kdevelop The package kdevelop3 has been renamed to kdevelop.12:59
gnomefreaki guess its just a "meta package"01:00
ryanakcaah, kk01:01
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ryanakcadown to 4.6KB/s... I guess my teacher will have to wait a day or two :) either that or be patient till the 26th01:05
claydohmine were slow too, the Ubuntu rc was faster,had more peers01:11
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jjesse_good evening :)03:25
freeflyingmorning all03:44
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jjesse_hello freeflying04:43
freeflyingjjesse_: hey :)04:43
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ltmonHi all, I'm currently getting a really crash-prone kded in Edgy (upgraded from Dapper).  I can't really find any reliable way to crash it, but suffice to say it happens several times a day.  I was hoping someone could give me a quick rundown on how to get a stack trace of the crash.  I have already installed the kdebase-dbg and kdelibs-dbg packages, and I can restart the daemon whenever it crashes ... what next?04:51
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ltmonWith regards to my last question: I Just figured it out.  It is a buggy version of kdesvn that is packaged for Edgy causing the crash.  See https://launchpad.net/bugs/61494.05:44
UbugtuMalone bug 61494 in kdesvn "Wrong desktop file entry for subversion" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  05:44
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LureRiddell: I had a strange kded hang when kmail using kwalletmanager wanted to retreive the mail after the boot - kded CPU went to 100% and I could only kill kded with -908:35
LureRiddell: then I started from command line and got some errors like this http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/3308:36
LureRiddell: this opencrypto errors do not look nice and I know that crypto was changed recently - do we need to rebuild something with new opencrypto?08:37
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seaLnei can't reproduce Bug #65455 kdemultimedia installs fine for me11:36
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seaLneBug #6545511:36
JucatoseaLne: the bots are gone...11:37
seaLneyeah just noticed11:37
seaLne[UNMETDEPS]  kdemultimedia has unmet dependencies11:37
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seaLnei'll mark as fixed11:39
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Jucatohi Tonio_12:21
Jucatoexcuse me Tonio_, someone was asking about a focus bug in KDE 3.5.5. was it fixed?12:24
Tonio_Jucato: dunno about this bug....12:24
Tonio_any bug id ?12:25
Jucatohm ok I'll look for it. he asked in #kde12:25
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Tonio_Jucato: okay12:25
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JucatoTl 12:41
Jucatobug 13525012:41
Jucatokde bug 13525012:41
UbugtuKDE bug 135250 in general "desktop unusable due to flickering of windows if not "focus follows click"" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13525012:41
JucatoTonio_: this one...12:41
Tonio_Jucato: having a look12:42
Jucatogreat. thanks :)12:42
Tonio_Jucato: to late to upload a patch anyway, but we could ship an update after the release is out12:43
Jucatoah. guess it was too late after all :)12:43
Tonio_okay the patch is given....12:44
Tonio_Jucato: I'll prepare packages locally and discuss with Riddell and mdz to upload as an update once edgy is out12:44
Tonio_Jucato: I also have another patch to eventually upload too12:45
Jucatoah ok. that'd be great. so the patch would be out only after Edgy's released12:45
Tonio_yes, unfortunately12:45
Jucatowell, if I had known it sooner, I it could have probably made it...12:46
Tonio_Jucato: could you confirm http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13599912:47
UbugtuKDE bug 135999 in general "Konqueror segfault with audiocd:/" [Crash,Unconfirmed]  12:47
Jucatoer... not on Linux right now...12:47
=== Jucato sobs...
Jucatosorry Tonio_ :(12:47
Tonio_Jucato: no pb ;)12:49
=== Tonio_ leave to get his new electronic passport...
Tonio_no uds without this :)12:49
Jucatooooh coolness :)12:49
Tonio_Jucato: bah 60 just because of USA paranoia :)12:50
Tonio_not that cool in my opinion hehe :)12:50
Jucatoerr... now that you mention it... :P12:50
JucatoI wish the paranoia would disappear before the January next year. some relatives of mine from USA are planning to visit us here :)12:52
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=== ajmitch is thankful that his passport (issued exactly 1 year ago) is ok for entering the US :)
ajmitchsince I got the passport renewed so I could travel to UBZ in montreal :)12:55
imbrandoni'm just glad i dont have to have one right now12:56
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LureRiddell: interesting: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=4759301:07
RiddellLure: presumably not your patch?01:07
LureRiddell: no - they just do system("pmi action hibernate") - no detection what is supported and similar. I added comment with link to my patch01:08
Riddellyeah, it's very simplistic that patch01:08
LureRiddell: there is also comment that SuSE has something similar ;-)01:08
LureRiddell: how do we stand with your pile of uploads for the release - will they get accepted?01:12
RiddellLure: kdelibs and k-d-s just got in, just katapult to go I think01:15
LureRiddell: and guidance-powermanager?01:17
LureRiddell: accepted:01:18
Lure[13:17]  <tfheen> Kamion: kdelibs and kde-guidance, yes, please.01:18
Riddellk-d-s still to be approved01:20
imbrandonmoins Lure & Riddell 01:20
fritschSorry for disturbing in this "hot period" of working, but ist there a chance, that the kde-guidance-powermanager will be able to "get" XF86Standby keycodes, which are correctly mapped already?01:21
Riddellfritsch: we patch those in kdebase as I recall, Lure can confirm01:22
Riddellpykde doesn't work with global keyboard accelarators alas01:22
Lurefritsch: not for edgy - I wanted to do something in ksmserver, but we were already in RC freeze01:23
Riddellah, yes01:23
fritschLure: oki, thx very much01:23
Lureyou could use ksticky keys and dcop interfaces of power-manager - I might write a small howto for this01:23
fritschLure: this would be even nicer :-)  thank you! and have fun and get some calm01:24
fritschstress is poison01:24
=== fritsch good to say only some day before the release
Lurefritsch: I have stress at work, kubuntu is to calm down ;-)01:25
Riddellyay, katapult, qts and k-d-s all accepted01:27
Riddellso we're sorted for edgy!  nothing can go wrong now!01:27
fritschRiddell: copied and pasted "this.13:27" for my blog01:27
fritschhave fun altogether and thx for your great work!01:28
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Tonio_Riddell: great news ;)01:36
Tonio_haha, got it !01:36
Tonio_Riddell: I have a fix for THE oldest kubuntu bug01:37
Tonio_Riddell: the 'incomplete konqueror menus" bug01:37
Tonio_I found a patch on the net01:37
Tonio_I tested here widelly, and it works like a charm01:38
Tonio_Riddell: bug 41594  01:38
UbugtuMalone bug 41594 in kubuntu-default-settings "dapper: konqueror (web) won't always show all menu entries" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4159401:38
Tonio_Riddell: here is the patch : http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/3401:40
Tonio_I also tested the "merged stop and reload buttons"01:40
Tonio_works nicelly but I think it causes konq crashes sometimes01:40
Tonio_I have to investigate01:40
Tonio_Riddell: I put all the stuff on my repo, we'll test during the uds01:41
Tonio_I really would like to see that bug closed...01:41
Tonio_Riddell: to reproduce the bug :http://light.pcinpact.com/actu/news/32232-iPod-cinq-ans.htm?ca=&vc=1&p=2&#c87978201:45
Tonio_click on "plus beaux" link01:45
Tonio_it loads a new window, with incomplete "view" menu01:46
Tonio_konqueror ignores kds settings01:46
Tonio_with the patch, it works01:46
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LureRiddell: this is nice fix: http://commit-digest.org/issues/2006-10-22/moreinfo/585670/02:11
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imbrandonLure, +1 i seem to be bitten by that bug quite a bit i think02:13
Lureimbrandon: me too - I just got used to it (so I did not notice it even) :-(02:13
imbrandonRiddell, that looks like a fairly trivial change that closes a TON of bugs, think i coudl get that in now ?02:15
Lureimbrandon: we should find LP bugs that are cause by this...02:15
imbrandons/ProgressItem *mMailCheckProgressItem;/QGuardedPtr<ProgressItem> mMailCheckProgressItem;/ is the change 02:16
Riddellit would need testing, then can go in edgy-updates02:16
imbrandonRiddell, kk02:16
imbrandonsince i seem to be bitten by that bug i'll build it and put it up for Lure and me to test , sound ok Lure ?02:17
imbrandonthen we can go from there02:17
Lureimbrandon: will do02:17
imbrandonkk i'll make a patch and build it now02:17
imbrandonplease tell me your on i38602:17
imbrandonLure, well that pacth dosent seem to be the total fix02:40
imbrandonbecouse its already in edgy02:41
imbrandon( kde 3.5.5 )02:41
LureIt seems we need to report 3.5.5 crashes to b.k.o...02:41
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Tonio_Riddell: do you have rights to approve kubuntu related specs or not ?03:37
RiddellTonio_: no03:37
Tonio_Riddell: okay, I'll be writing the 2 other specs we want for the uds (samba integration and voip solution) and email mdz03:38
Tonio_Riddell: are you okay to discuss this during the uds ?03:38
RiddellTonio_: you don't need to e-mail mdz, he'll get notification of them all03:41
RiddellTonio_: I am yes03:41
Tonio_Riddell: yes but he asked for email concerning the specs to discuss at uds03:42
Riddelloh, I didn't see that03:42
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mhbhi all03:50
Jucatohi bddebian, hi mhb :)03:51
bddebianHello mhb, Jucato03:51
Lureimbrandon: should we push this for uds-mtv: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/firefox-kde-support03:51
Tonio_Lure: in my opinion we should target konqueror, really03:57
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LureTonio_: may firefox users (like me) are not satisfied with suboptimal behaviour03:58
LureTonio_: I try to switch to konqueror every couple of months, but I cannot03:59
LureAnd firefox is widely used browser and deserves better03:59
Tonio_Lure: the problem is that the patches to integrate konqueror to kde are nasty hacks03:59
mhbTonio_: firefox, you mean04:02
Tonio_mhb: yes :) sorry04:03
mhbI still don't get the half feature half bug 6731404:07
UbugtuMalone bug 67314 in kubuntu-default-settings "[edgy]  Can't show root (/) in gtk file chooser after update to edgy" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6731404:07
mhbwhy is it good that it can't show root?04:07
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jdongmhb: heh, I guess it's a side-effect that it affects GNOME in addition to KDE04:09
=== jdong is personally not a big fan of it in either environment... he rm -f /.hidden :)
=== mhb just noticed it does in KDE's open dialogue too
mhbI can name a milion of times when I need to open /usr/ and I'm accustomed to going to "/" and then clicking my way through04:11
mhbmillion times, sorry04:11
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jdongmhb: the stupid user paradigm, I guess... users are too stupid to know that anything other than /home and /media exist :P04:16
jdongyou can tell I'm not happy about it either04:16
Tonio_Riddell: the mail's subject is "UDS Mountain View: Call for Topics", sent on 10/1404:19
RiddellTonio_: which says to 'click "Propose for meeting agenda"' not to e-mail matt04:25
Tonio_Riddell: yes, my memory sometimes segfault :)04:27
Tonio_I'll re-read it to do it correctly04:27
=== jdong dives into ktorrent SVN to pull out more speed fixes
mhbwho made the decision of hiding all dirs except /media and /home in / ?04:28
Tonio_mhb: was a common decision and _Sime implemented this04:29
Tonio_or maybe _Sime decided and we agreed :)04:29
Tonio_mhb: why ?04:29
mhbit seems illogical to me04:29
Tonio_mhb: why ?04:30
jdongTonio_: because for a user to be browsing through the filesystem, he already has a purpose set out04:30
jdongif he just wanted /home and /media, there's buttons for those on the shortcut pane thingie04:31
mhbTonio_: I know I'm not the most typical user in the world but I take me a lot as example. When I want to go to my home dir I use the button on the left. When I want to go to /media, I also use the button on the left.04:31
Tonio_jdong: a user will not have acces rights to those files04:31
jdongTonio_: /usr/share/doc?04:31
jdongI think he does04:31
jdongor, an open with dialog04:31
mhbTonio_: when I want to check /usr/share/locale-langpack or k-d-s for some artwork I open the / dir and descend through the structure04:31
Tonio_jdong: write access ? :)04:31
jdongselecting /usr/bin/whatever04:31
jdongTonio_: why does it have to be write access?04:31
Tonio_mhb: that's not the Joe user case04:32
Tonio_you are a power user04:32
Tonio_simply choose to display those files04:32
Tonio_another solution is to type the folder address in the address bar04:32
Tonio_works too04:32
Tonio_it doesn't change anything for the poweruser04:32
jdongwow, this feels like a GNOME-ish discussion.... only there's actually a way around the stupidity filter04:32
Tonio_but makes the system view easy for my mother04:32
mhbTonio_: my sister (a 10 year old) never went beyond the home dir04:33
Tonio_jdong: the difference with gnome is that we have the address bar activated out the the box hehe :)04:33
mhbTonio_: and she's using Kubuntu from Dapper04:33
Tonio_mhb: yes, but the systems looks complicated if you display everything04:33
Tonio_if you are a poweruser, you :04:33
jdongmy neighbor is a complete newcomer from linux and he had no issues with seeing the entire /....04:33
Tonio_- generally use the shell04:33
Tonio_- can show the hidden folders04:33
jdongother than he did ask questions about how it worked, from a curiousity standpoint04:33
Tonio_- can type the folder url in the address bar04:34
Tonio_and concerning the gnome based discussion04:45
mhbTonio_: if I remember correctly hiding functionality just for the sake of hiding was never the KDE style of work04:45
Tonio_my feeling is that gnome can good ideas sometimes, no reason to ignore them "because that's a gnome point of view"04:45
mhbTonio_: no, but I chose KDE for it's features04:45
Tonio_mhb: and ?04:45
Tonio_mhb: okay so we should remove the full kds package then04:45
Tonio_the way I configured konqueror wasn't the kde style of work04:45
Tonio_kde style of work is to add the maximum options04:45
mhbTonio_: no,that's not my point04:45
Tonio_3 buttons bar in konqueror04:45
Riddellmhb: the idea is to use / as a replacement for system:/04:45
mhbRiddell: why?04:45
Tonio_mhb: because ioslaves are creating LOTS of issues04:45
Tonio_mhb: for example with gtk applications04:45
mhbRiddell: I wouldn't complain about that if it didn't block my style of working with KDE04:45
Riddellmhb: so show hidden files04:45
Tonio_exactly... I don't understand the problem...04:45
Jucatowill deleting /.hidden also rever to the normal setting?or his showing hidden files the only way to work around it?04:45
Tonio_mhb: or type the url in the address bar....04:45
Tonio_Jucato: it will but any kds update will reinstall the file04:45
Tonio_but I don't understand people that complain "I cannor do the way I want"04:45
mhbRiddell: so we want to pretend that we have no unix structure at all?04:45
Tonio_as long as you can display the hidden files, where is the issue ?04:45
jdongit's an inconvenience?04:45
mhbRiddell: I spent quite a lot of time translating descriptions of the unix structure in the Kubuntu desktop guide04:45
Tonio_mhb: no we want to make the system view easy04:45
Tonio_but visible for those who want too04:45
Tonio_mhb: look at OSX for example04:45
jdongsure, let's hide all new apps installed by default, too04:45
jdongexpert users can find them via the command line04:45
Tonio_jdong: that's what we do for kcontrol hehe :)04:45
Tonio_jdong: seriously, who as a standard user minds the system view ?04:45
Tonio_you all used windows in the past, who learned the C:\windows structure ?04:45
Tonio_who using OSX minds the folder structure ?04:45
mhbTonio_: I was frustrated every time I opened that04:45
Tonio_only powerusers do04:45
Tonio_and powerusers can find the files they want very easilly04:45
mhbTonio_: a 14 year old gamer is no power user :o)04:45
Tonio_there are 3 ways to do04:45
Tonio_mhb: my girlfriend is frustated when she browse the system04:45
Tonio_too complicated for her04:45
Tonio_confusing and of course useless04:45
mhbTonio_: my sister never mentioned that04:45
Tonio_as long as we are not removing the possibility to do as before, were is the issue ?04:45
mhbTonio_: maybe your girlfriend is a Windows power user but no Unix power user04:45
jdongoh yeah? well my relatives are cooler than both of yours :)04:45
Tonio_mhb: ask her04:45
Tonio_compare the 2 views and ask her which one is the best in her opinion04:45
Tonio_no doubt at her response04:45
mhbTonio_: no doubt, she doesn't care :o)04:45
jdongwell, the maximize button confuses the hell out of my grandma04:45
mhbTonio_: but that's another story04:45
jdongshould that be hidden too?04:45
Tonio_mhb: and don't forget you can always do as you want04:45
jdongsame with the window menu04:45
Tonio_just display hidden files04:45
jdongand the right click button04:45
Lurejdong: just press F8 and you see everything04:45
mhbTonio_: I don't want to see hidden files in my home dir but I'd like to see hidden files in "/"04:45
Tonio_Lure: F8 ? that's for the embeded console :)04:45
jdongLure: that's not the point. Why do I have to press an extra button just because Tonio_'s girlfriend complains a lot? :D04:46
Tonio_mhb: okay make your own distro then, or remove kds...04:46
Tonio_mhb: there are dozens of distros that do the way you want04:46
jdongwhoo! jdongbuntu time!04:46
Tonio_we cannot feet everyone way to work04:46
jdongactually, that's probably Kjdongkbuntu :)04:46
mhbI agree with jdong in this problem04:46
Tonio_that's impossible, so we have to choose the best compromise04:46
Jucatoaka brokenbuntu? :P04:46
Lurejdong: as power user you can decide to make empty /.hidden and /media/.hidden04:46
Tonio_jdong: I didn't even gave my opinion04:47
jdongLure: already have04:47
Tonio_that's not my choice (for once)04:47
Lurejdong: so, what is the problem?04:47
mhbTonio_: we must take an another point of view in consideration04:47
jdongit's annoying to have to do that every time I do an install04:47
Tonio_jdong: make your own settings package then........04:47
mhbTonio_: still a large number of Kubuntu users are power users, even if we want to change that04:47
LureTonio_: is /.hidden treated as config file (it should be) or is always overwritten?04:47
Tonio_fork kds for your needs.......04:47
Riddelljdong: they are config files, you can preserve their emptyness in /etc04:48
Tonio_Lure: overwritten, as it is not in /etc04:48
jdongTonio_: I think in the future we need to provide a kds package that's the equivalent of default KDE04:48
Tonio_Riddell: are they ?04:48
mhbTonio_: and those power users actually recommend the distribution04:48
jdongespecially if this simplification thing goes any further04:48
mhbTonio_: to the non-power ones04:48
Riddelljdong: i.e. uninstalling k-d-s04:48
Tonio_Riddell: ah yes, it has been changed, you're right, with simlinks in folders04:48
RiddellTonio_: sure .hidden -> /etc/kubuntu-default-settings/hidden-root04:48
jdongRiddell: oh, does that really undo everything?04:48
Riddelljdong: most things04:49
Tonio_Riddell: yes I remember, that changed a month ago04:49
mhbTonio_: but most power users (my own experience) won't recommend a distribution for novices, but distribution they use04:49
Tonio_mhb: that's exactly why linux is only 1% of the market04:49
mhbTonio_: the trend is changing04:49
Tonio_because those gentoo users are suggesting gentoo to their mother04:49
Tonio_a poweruser based distro is for and only for powerusers04:50
Tonio_I don't even suggest kubuntu for a novice, but ubuntu.....04:50
mhbTonio_: yes, and your "you should change distribution" argument is really a poison for Kubuntu spreading04:50
RiddellTonio_: that's a bug then04:50
Tonio_kubuntu needs simplification at the moment, to reach the same usability level as ubuntu as for novices04:50
mhbTonio_: I don't mean you no offence04:50
Tonio_Riddell: I hope fiesty will be ready, but I don't consider it ready for grandmothers currently ;)04:51
mhbI recommend Kubuntu because far more people are able to run KDE04:51
Tonio_that's why I'm currently focussing on konqueror, media simplication etc...04:51
mhband they actually like it04:51
Tonio_mhb: well I recommend kubuntu for people that have a few knowledge in informatics (only the bases)04:52
Tonio_but for a total novice, I think for example ubuntu or mandriva are more adapted (at the moment at least)04:52
Tonio_that's why I want to improve kubuntu04:52
Tonio_if everything was perfect in my opinion, I wouldn't contribute ;)04:52
mhbTonio_: no, of course04:52
Tonio_mhb: but for the same reasons, people will complain because I'm patching kaffeine to remove audio features04:53
mhbTonio_: but if I am working on a configuration tool, for example (and I will be real soon), I'll try to make it so that it would be possible to set as many options as possible04:53
Tonio_kaudiocreator users will complain because we will probably remove it to favor k3b etc......;04:53
mhbTonio_: while still maintaining usability04:53
Tonio_mhb: which is impossible to do04:54
mhbTonio_: for example my sister doesn't know what /home means. She can't speak English yet. That's why she doesn't care whether to have / with all or just with reduced options04:54
Tonio_usabillity + simplicity <> maximu functionalities04:54
Tonio_that's a base04:54
Tonio_mhb: and yes I agree the folders like 'desktop' should be translated04:55
mhbTonio_: since I know a lot of docs (translated them) I know that's the goal KDE's trying to achieve04:55
Tonio_that's a good idea04:55
Tonio_mhb: if kde was succeding in this, kds package wouldn't exist04:55
Tonio_kde is failing making something accessible to novices, I'm sorry but that's my opinion04:55
Tonio_but they are making a fatastic desktop for powerusers04:56
Tonio_our goal is to make is accessible to novices04:56
mhbTonio_: in my opinion (there were some stats about that at least here in Czech Rep.) more people actually use KDE than GNOME ... even novices04:56
Tonio_but if that reduces functionnalities for some powerusers, they are free to use a poweruser based distro, like debian or gentoo04:57
Tonio_or slackware04:57
mhbTonio_: we shouldn't give up KDE goals, though04:57
mhbTonio_: and KDE goals exist04:57
Tonio_yes, lots of novices are using kde04:57
Tonio_that doesn't mean kde is the perfect choice for novices04:57
Tonio_mych more people are using osx or widows :) that's the point04:57
Tonio_mhb: yes and I hope kde4 will succeed in that goal04:58
Tonio_I just think the out of the box kde 3 doesn't04:58
mhbTonio_: AFAIK C:\Windows or Documents and Settings are visible in both Vista and XP04:58
mhbTonio_: the folders in the C:\ directory are visible04:58
Tonio_mhb: all the system related files and folders are hidden04:58
abattoirmhb: well, windows hides stuff like Program files or even System by default, but there is a message telling you that, which i feel we lack04:58
Tonio_even in "documents and settings"04:59
LureRiddell: I have proposed my specs for uds-mtv, but they do not show on https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/ - how to get them accepted for uds?04:59
Tonio_mhb: you will not confuse me on windows hehe :) windows is my job ;)04:59
mhbabattoir: it already does hide the dirs?04:59
Tonio_mhb: is C:\boot.ini displayed by default ?04:59
mhbTonio_: I probably won't04:59
mhbTonio_: I don't use them :o) I just say what I remember05:00
Tonio_what "about documents and settings/local settings"05:00
Tonio_all system related files are hidden05:00
RiddellLure: 'click "Propose for meeting agenda"'05:00
mhbTonio_: not all / dirs are system05:00
abattoirmhb: yup, on a default installation C:\Program Files and C:\System (sorry, don't remember the paths correctly anymore) are hidden, but as i said, there is a message which clearly indicaates that, so people don't get confused05:00
RiddellLure: and they'll get reviewed for acceptance05:00
Tonio_powerusers can display them (I do) but my syster doesn't need this05:00
LureRiddell: I did, so I just need to wait for approval?05:00
Tonio_mhb: /etc files are /usr files are too in my opinion05:00
RiddellLure: yes05:00
Tonio_mhb: /home files are not05:01
mhbTonio_: do you do community support for (K)ubuntu sometimes?05:01
Tonio_mhb: of course05:02
mhbTonio_: let's say a user has a problem and you need to see the logs05:02
LureTonio_: did you propose kubuntu multimedia spec?05:02
Tonio_mhb: /usr/share/docs files are not designed to be browsed with konqueror "by the lambda"05:02
Tonio_Lure: will do today05:02
Tonio_mhb: but to be used with "help" menus and khelpcenter05:03
LureTonio_: ok, please subscribe me ;-)05:03
mhbTonio_: you say to him "send me the /var/log/xorg.log file" and he'll probably say he doesn't have a /var/ directory05:03
Tonio_mhb: if I need to see the logs, I will send the path to the user and say him to paste the path in the addres bar05:03
Tonio_no problem :)05:03
Tonio_Riddell: also yes05:03
mhbRiddell: yes, in KDE ... I don't know the counterpart in Ubuntu or Xubuntu, though05:04
Riddellor Show Hidden Files as we've said lots already05:04
Tonio_mhb: but if I need the files, it is very easy to say him how to do05:04
Tonio_"paste  /var/log/ in the address bar and send me xorg.conf"05:04
mhbRiddell: if I'll say that to every one of them we'll all end up with showing hidden files05:04
LureRiddell: who can get me rights to modify https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/firefox-kde-support05:04
Tonio_mhb: where is the issue ?05:04
LureRiddell: I would like to add wiki page05:04
mhbTonio_: the issue is clear from my POV: you just disabled a way to browse the system many users, not just me are accustomed to05:05
RiddellLure: https://features.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-10-rmn3005:05
mhbTonio_: should I bring every single one novice user of Kubuntu who likes things to stay that way?05:05
Tonio_mhb: as we did when we removed kcontrol05:05
Tonio_who complains now ?05:06
LureRiddell: so only registrant?05:06
Tonio_mhb: as I did when I simplified konqueror05:06
Tonio_who complains now ?05:06
mhbTonio_: now WE complain, can't you see?05:06
Tonio_mhb: I'm talking about not powerusers :)05:06
RiddellLure: I know matt can too so there's probably some group that can control these things05:06
mhbTonio_: should we break your window before you notice it? :o))05:06
mhbTonio_: and stand and scream in the streets? :o)05:07
LureRiddell: will mail Robert...05:07
mhbTonio_: so you basically say we shouldn't care about what power users say05:07
Tonio_mhb: let's re-debate this in the meeting them.......; but I know what the average opinion is05:07
Tonio_mhb: exactly, that's my opinion05:07
mhbTonio_: should I bring supporters then?05:07
Tonio_powerusers are "powerusers"05:07
Tonio_means that they can find a way to do as they want05:08
Tonio_my sister cannot05:08
mhbTonio_: well that's a dangerous opinion05:08
Tonio_there are enough powerusers based distros out there05:08
Tonio_if kubuntu isn't adapted anymore, they can switch05:08
Tonio_but lambda users cannot switch to debian05:08
Tonio_that's why kubuntu exists05:08
Tonio_dangerous, maybe, but my opinion, yes05:08
mhbTonio_: I'll bring people to the meeting then05:09
mhbTonio_: average Joes who like it that way05:09
Tonio_if we decide to target powerusers, let's stop kubuntu now05:09
Tonio_debian is perfect for them05:09
Jucatois it possible to have a sort of "patched" k-d-s available that doesn't have the .hidden settings only?05:09
mhbTonio_: you're breaking the motto of kubuntu, can't you see?05:09
RiddellJucato: no.  they're config files as I've said05:09
mhbTonio_: you're making a distribution _NOT_ for everyone05:09
Tonio_mhb: it still is05:10
Riddellmhb: that's a bit harsh05:10
Tonio_you have 3 ways to access your files05:10
mhbRiddell: sorry05:10
mhbTonio_: I apologize for the harsh comment05:10
Tonio_but before, there was not any way to hide the files for Joe05:10
Tonio_that's what I call a comprimise05:10
Tonio_make it simple for most users, but still accessible for powerusers05:10
mhbbut I still think when we do something against the power users, we're breaking the kubuntu motto05:11
Tonio_mhb: I don't mind :)05:11
Tonio_we don't do something against powerusers05:11
mhbTonio_: it wasn't just me who says it will affect him05:11
Tonio_but I prefer powerusers to do 2 more clicks if that makes it easier for lambda users05:11
Tonio_instead of something designed for powerusers without any way for lambda users to change it05:12
Tonio_that's my definition of compromise05:12
Tonio_kcontrol is still accessible, but systemsettings is favored05:12
Tonio_exactly the same problem there05:12
Tonio_mhb: there are 100 ways to use konqueror05:12
mhbTonio_: no, I see a lot more problems arising here05:13
Tonio_simplification means to favor a way among another one05:13
Tonio_mhb: and if most people complain that'll be removed05:13
Tonio_but the purpose of edgy is to try new things05:13
mhbTonio_: if you want to do such radical changes, consult with the community first05:13
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Tonio_mhb: I didn't do the change, I just agree with it05:13
mhbTonio_: if you want to do such radical changes, you should notify the documentation team and the translation team05:13
Riddellwe did, it was brought up at the meeting and sime blogged about it05:13
Tonio_and in my opinion, not only the community needs to be consulted05:13
abattoirmhb: tbh, it has been in edgy for sometime now, it must've been noticed earlier and debted, imho05:14
Tonio_the community is build with powerusers05:14
Tonio_Joe user isn't on irc05:14
mhbTonio_: Joe power user isn't here05:14
Jucato_but we do need to have a proper wiki/documentation for this...05:14
Tonio_we have to consult powerusers, our families etc.......05:14
Tonio_get the global feeling05:14
Tonio_I think that was done05:14
mhbRiddell: one of the most frustrating things in this problem for me personally is that I translated the whole part of kubuntu desktop guide where the root directories are described05:15
=== rideout_ [n=rideout@71-208-14-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
mhbRiddell: but there is no part I've translated about this change05:15
Tonio_mhb: I can understand that and yes that's an issue05:15
mhbRiddell: and there's nobody that would apologize to me for doing a futile translation05:16
Tonio_that's why we should sync better with the documentation team05:16
Tonio_I totally agree on that point05:16
mhbRiddell: well not only to me, to the whole Kubuntu translation team or the -doc team05:16
mhbTonio_: I can live with the change personally05:17
mhbTonio_: but I don't know how it will affect a) KDE fans b) other power users which actually help us make Kubuntu as good as it is05:17
Tonio_mhb: we'll see :)05:18
mhbTonio_: if everyone scream "I'm happy with it!" I'll be a lot calmer05:18
Tonio_the purpose of edgy is to try new things05:18
Tonio_and lots of people didn't complain about it05:18
Jucatoif it's any indication, some comments have already come in from the forum (kubuntuforums.net)05:18
robotgeeki guess the desktop guide is kind of my fault. i had not done much05:18
Tonio_mhb: for one people complaning, how many agree and don't ay anything ?05:18
Tonio_hard to know no ?05:19
Tonio_mhb: a good example : I've merged the view switching buttons05:19
mhbTonio_: the same number as the ones that disagree and don't say anything .o)05:19
Tonio_*lots* of people are complaining 3 buttons are better, to make it easy to switch between the view05:19
Tonio_the average complains05:19
mhbthat's why we should ask05:19
Tonio_fiesty will probably be back to 3 buttons mode05:20
=== marseillai_ is now known as marseillai
Tonio_I am not a dictator :) that's mark role, not mine :)05:20
Tonio_so let's get the feeling of those changes and we'll decide for fiesty05:20
Tonio_but in my opinion, if OSX is such respected for its usability, it is because they have done the same thing05:21
mhbTonio_: OK...I'll try to ask the users I usually talk with05:21
Tonio_and that applies to windows too05:21
Tonio_mhb: be sure to ask "objectively"05:21
mhbTonio_: count on it :o) "Do you hate the bug as much as I do?" :o))05:22
Tonio_mhb: just for info, at the very begining I complained too05:22
Tonio_because I use konqueror the same way than you05:22
Tonio_I complained here a lot05:22
Tonio_I changed my mind asking to my mother, sister and girlfriend05:23
mhbTonio_: I can live with it as well05:24
Tonio_mhb: so can I :)05:24
=== orkid__ [n=orkid__@bas1-barrie18-1242375048.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== n8k99 [n=nathan@dsl254-078-190.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Jucatowill there be a wiki (plain English probably?) for this change? something we could point users to, when they ask?05:25
=== robotgeek is not going to upgrade!
mhbTonio_: the bad thing is that we can't both keep the files hidden (I know how many I have in $home) and root files visible05:26
mhbTonio_: that's what I would prefer - but don't change it the power user way, change it the Kubuntu way05:26
mhbTonio_: let's say System Settings -> Power User Settings -> Show Root Folder checkbox05:27
mhbTonio_: I'd love that05:27
Tonio_mhb: that's an option05:27
abattoirmhb: why all the trouble when as Riddell said it's just a config file, a power user would definitely know how to get around it05:27
Tonio_abattoir: that's my opinion too05:28
mhbabattoir: I am a power user who likes graphical tools for instance :o)05:28
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abattoirTonio_: but i do think there should be a message of some sort :P05:28
mhbabattoir: furthermore the files get hidden again every time I upgrade the system05:28
Jucatohehe that would be nice, too. :)05:28
abattoirTonio_: but i agree it's not quite feasible w/ the current infrastructure05:28
Tonio_Riddell: the konqueror settings loading patch causes konqueror to segfault sometimes.... but fixes the issue, so I try to clean it.... whould be nice to fix this, really05:29
Tonio_abattoir: let's wait for kde4 then, and find the best compromise waiting for it05:29
Riddellmhb: no they don't, they're config files05:30
mhbRiddell: even when k-d-s upgrades?05:30
RiddellTonio_: ervin said he'd be doing something different in KDE 405:30
Riddellmhb: yes05:30
mhbI'd still prefer that to be set up through some graphical tool05:30
Tonio_mhb: yeah I was wrong concerning this, they are now config files....05:31
mhbTonio_: no problem05:31
JucatoTonio_: meaning if you modify or remove the config file, updating kds won't bring it back?05:32
mhbbut I think it should be possible to revert such changes05:32
RiddellJucato: correct05:33
mhbbecause it's a bit "drastic change" for me05:33
imbrandonsorry i got in late on the conversation but --> [09:48]  <mhb> Tonio_: but most power users (my own experience) won't recommend a distribution for novices, but distribution they use <--- that is 100000% wrong, i cant count the number of times i have heard someone in my lug say they use {gentoo,debian} but hand out ubuntu cd's to friends and family05:33
JucatoRiddell: kool. thanks :)05:33
mhbimbrandon: experience differs .o)05:33
Tonio_imbrandon yes but I also saw a lot of "nerds" suggesting gentoo to average joe05:34
mhbimbrandon: I can't count the number of gentoo folks that try to push gentoo to the servers although gentoo's not the best one for servers05:34
imbrandonmhb, and also for the hidden files, it is very very simple just to click "show hidden files"05:34
Tonio_thinking they'll never have to perform powerusers actions05:34
LureTonio_: I have proposed your two spec for uds-mtv05:34
mhbimbrandon: true, but I don't want to show hidden files :o) I just want to see the root ones05:34
Tonio_Lure: there are 3 specs :)05:34
abattoirhmm, i just tried removing .hidden and reinstalling kubuntu-default-settings, the file got back in05:34
Tonio_which ones did you proposed ?05:34
mhbimbrandon: I'm happier without the load of stuff hidden in $home05:35
LureTonio_: have seen only viop and samba05:35
mhbimbrandon: at least in konqueror05:35
Tonio_Lure: okay I'll proposed the third :)05:35
Tonio_Lure: media simplication05:35
mhbabattoir: you probably need to change the content, not deleting it05:35
imbrandonthen you as a power user that knows things are in /usr/share/doc ( as opposed to joe that will click "help" on the kmenu ) can edit /.hidden ;)05:35
imbrandoneasy as pie05:35
LureTonio_: I am thining about desktop search - we should really discuss kerry and strigi...05:36
mhbimbrandon: more work, though05:36
imbrandonmhb, well power users can do more work, joe cant05:36
imbrandon( and often do )05:36
Tonio_Lure: absolutly true05:36
Tonio_Lure: is beagle splitted now ?05:36
mhbimbrandon: well I like kubuntu because I don't have to change the configuration much05:37
imbrandonmhb, how many times have you installed a OS ( linux or not ) and left everything 100% default ?05:37
mhbimbrandon: now I have to :o)05:37
LureTonio_: I do not think so (I prefer strigi anyhow - I hate C#/mono slack)05:37
mhbimbrandon: I make 100% less changes with Kubuntu than I did with slackware05:37
Tonio_Lure: hum yes, true :) mono sucks :)05:37
imbrandonmhb, sure, and give me a few use cases , infact start with 1 for a users getting at something not in /home or /media ?05:38
imbrandoni keep asking that and none can answer it, it seems they are just "used" to the old way05:38
mhbimbrandon: I need that05:38
imbrandonbut again joe isnt 05:38
imbrandonyou need what ?05:38
mhbimbrandon: joe shouldn't be used to going to / in the first place .o)05:39
imbrandonso why show it to him05:39
=== Arbiter [n=arbiter@unaffiliated/arbiter] has joined #kubuntu-devel
mhbimbrandon: no need to include Root Directory in the Quick Links on the left (in the open dialog)05:39
imbrandonnot just the open dialogs05:40
imbrandonwhat about konqueror05:40
mhbimbrandon: what if you need to go there?05:40
imbrandonquick links are a dirty hack to fix a problem , a cluttered filesystem05:41
imbrandonmhb, simple , type it in or click show hidden files05:41
imbrandonbut why would you need to go there, that what i;m asking, i can say what if all day05:41
mhbimbrandon: you're reading a documentation (read the bit about the outdated documentation above) or a HOWTO that says "Open the /var/log/something.log and make sure it contains the line aa bb"05:42
imbrandonserouisly, i'm asking, dont take me wrong, irc isnt the best communications at times05:42
=== Lure -> home, bbl
mhbmy pizza's ready, so let's wait a bit05:42
imbrandonsure and if it says /var/log/blah/blah TYPE IT IN as it says, but "joe" will click "Help" for docs05:42
imbrandonor go on the net05:42
imbrandonand a "howto" will tell you exactly how to do it ( mostly command line )05:43
imbrandoni still dont see that as a use case "for general every day use" , that is a corner case that is solved by "show hidden files" or typing it in05:44
mhbimbrandon: one possible argument is that normal users don't need to go to the root dir most of the time (which is good) but it's no explanation why we should hide it05:48
mhbimbrandon: nobody can say an argument when they need it because they don't.05:48
mhbimbrandon: but there are some users that need to05:48
mhbimbrandon: me05:48
mhbimbrandon: and other power users05:48
imbrandonwell i have been publicly asking for 3 months now, and no one has come up with a reson they "need" it out side of your corner case you jsut made05:49
mhbimbrandon: the interesting thing is: what can they do if they descend into the / hierarchy?05:49
mhbimbrandon: can they do harm like the Windows users can?05:49
mhbimbrandon: they can only get lost, but they can easily get out with the friendly home icon05:50
imbrandonits not all about harm, its about confusion and easy adoption05:50
=== mbiebl [n=michael@e180075079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
imbrandonwhy should i ( even as a power user ) have to scroll through 30 directorys on my / to get to /media when "day to day" on a "desktop os" i will never use those other directorty05:51
mhbimbrandon: my sister will get confused even if there is a one directory called "home"05:51
mhbimbrandon: because she doesn't speak English ... maybe we can work on the solution so that you actually don't need to go to the / dir and see the English05:52
mhbimbrandon: but when you do, you should see it05:52
imbrandonmhb, thats a translation issue, totaly OT for this issue05:52
mhbimbrandon: I disagree, though05:53
imbrandonthere is a diffrence between computer littercy and easy of use05:53
mhbimbrandon: well the root directory is well documented in the kubuntu desktop guide05:54
mhbimbrandon: did you see that?05:54
mhbimbrandon: it clearly states what the directories are for and it should note which are important for the user05:54
imbrandonmhb, sure and on first use 98.999999% of users will never have read that, make it intutive , i dont want to have to read the docs to use it05:55
imbrandonmake it ewasy to begin with05:55
mhbimbrandon: yes, I agree05:55
imbrandonthen whats the problem ?05:55
mhbimbrandon: but I still can't see the logic behind the hiding05:55
imbrandonare they nessesary for every day use?05:55
mhbimbrandon: I feel it's kind of a workaround05:55
mhbimbrandon: the users in Dapper didn't have the need to go to the / directory and some of them have never been ther05:56
mhbimbrandon: why hide it then?05:56
imbrandonhow else would they get to their files then ?05:56
mhbimbrandon: they start in their home directory, they can get to the media through the desktop or the System menu icon05:57
imbrandonwhat about if i want to open my music on a samba mount? why should i scroll through 30 directorys i'll never use to get to /media05:57
imbrandonmhb, but thats not how new users do it, they use one file browser as tought to them by windows and osx05:58
mhbimbrandon: what? you use the system menu icon, that's what it's there for... or use the link in the konqueror home page05:58
mhbimbrandon: konqueror default page can direct you to the samba places ... I use that myself sometimes05:58
imbrandonsure and you know what the system menu opens ? /05:58
imbrandonthen i can clicki on media or home05:58
imbrandonwhere ever i need to go, not 30 others05:59
=== n8k99 wonders if this is similiar to the $HOME thread on kde-usability mailing list
mhbwell, my long arguments short... I don't think is wise to hide other dirs and direct everyone to / because the non-English users won't understand it (unlike System menu, which is translated like Home Folder, Storage Media, Remote Places and such) and the second thing I disagree with is that there is no configuration tool that can enable the root dirs only (not the home hidden files) - power users can spend a few minutes on fixing the files by hand06:04
mhbit's not that short, I know .o)06:05
=== marseillai is happy! i've finally succeed to get auto rejoin after a kick on konversation! :D
mhbimbrandon: I understand it may be an improvement for the English novice users ... but if we create trouble for both the non-English novice and power users, it's too much trouble for too little features06:06
mhbafter all, we're making a Linux distribution for everyone06:06
mhbor you are, to be exact :o)06:07
mhbbut it's not me who makes the feedback, it's all of the Kubuntu users06:09
mhbI'll try to gather some opinions from them and then we may or may not reconsider06:10
mhbsorry about spamming :o) Howgh.06:11
imbrandonmhb, we have gathered many opinoins over the last 3 months and to be perfectly honest there has only been 3 "questions" about it from power users including your self , the rest has been a warm welcome, but you are welcome to do as you wish, feedback is always good06:11
mhbimbrandon: I've seen at least 2 people disagree with it today here including myself...06:12
imbrandoni seen you and another and that was included in the 3 ;)06:13
=== nuku [n=nuku@unaffiliated/nuku] has joined #kubuntu-devel
imbrandonand other than a translastion issue ( that you your self said was well documented ) i dont see a reason not to do it06:14
mhbimbrandon: that's a misinterpretation06:14
imbrandonhowso? you said the root dir structor was documented, the docs are translated well06:14
mhbimbrandon: for example this change is not documented in kubuntu-docs at all, AFAIK06:14
imbrandonthats not what i said06:15
mhbimbrandon: instead there are descriptions of directories that are currently not there06:15
mhbimbrandon: I cannot consider this well-documented06:15
mhbimbrandon: the original structure was well documented, but the change actually corrupts the documentation in a way06:16
imbrandonthey are their , just not shown, and if they are documented the so is /home was my point ( thats not translated )06:16
mhbimbrandon: and nobody can delete all that redundant stuff now, I fear06:16
mhbimbrandon: wasn't your point that it should not be necessary to see it? 06:16
imbrandonomg you did not read what i said06:16
imbrandonplease read again06:17
imbrandon[11:13]  <imbrandon> and other than a translastion issue ( that you your self said was well documented ) i dont see a reason not to do it06:17
imbrandonthe directory struct is documented correct ? you just said so, thus /home is documented, thus not a translation problem06:17
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mhbimbrandon: wrong06:17
imbrandonas far as them being in the docs sure they still need to be becouse they are still there06:18
mhbimbrandon: the directory /home or /media was accessible through System menu documented strings06:18
imbrandonmhb, how is that wrong, i said the same thing you did just in a diffrent order06:18
imbrandonNOT WHAT I SAID06:18
imbrandonREAD WHAT I SAID06:18
mhbimbrandon: stop screaming, please :o)06:18
imbrandonwell please take a moment and read /again/ what i said, i have repeated it a few times now06:19
=== Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #kubuntu-devel
imbrandonit is quite clear, i can explain more details if needed06:19
mhbi dont want to have to read the docs to use it06:20
mhbwhat you said06:20
imbrandonyou dont have to by your defination, do it the way you have been used to, we made it so when joe does it they way HE is used to it will look sane06:20
mhbbut if I understand you correctly now you're suggesting non-English users have to read the docs to understand what "home" or "media" means06:20
imbrandonno , only what the directorys mean , that they would have had to do anyhow if they are in a position to where they see them06:21
imbrandonmaking home and media only visable in some places dosent change that they were not translated before in those same spots06:22
imbrandonthus a mute point about translation06:22
mhbimbrandon: they know what "Domovsk sloka" means (Home Folder) in Czech and they can click through that06:22
imbrandonnow exacvtly how is that a problem ?06:22
coreymon77hi guys06:23
imbrandonheya coreymon7706:23
coreymon77im using the edgy rc and was wondering if  i could maybe help somehow06:23
imbrandonmhb, ok let me put it to you like this06:23
imbrandoncoreymon77, support for edgy is in #ubuntu+106:23
mhbimbrandon: Riddell told me / should be a replacement for system:/ but system:/ is translated (therefore more accessible) while / is not06:23
imbrandonmhb, let me put it to you like this06:24
mhbimbrandon: ok06:24
imbrandonok you are in the file browser where you see /usr /home /media 06:24
coreymon77i dont mean get help, i mean help out06:24
imbrandoncorect ?06:24
imbrandoncoreymon77, sure one sec i'll give you some info06:24
imbrandonok mhb06:25
imbrandoni take away /usr 06:25
imbrandonhow the heck dsoes that change weather /home is translated or not06:25
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Riddellimbrandon: it should be doable with .directory files06:25
imbrandonit dosent, if they needed translation before it was hidden they still do now06:25
coreymon77i could maybe help with translating06:25
coreymon77i know some hebrew06:26
imbrandonRiddell, what should ?06:26
imbrandonahh translation ?06:26
mhbRiddell: well it should be complete before the switch from system:/ to /06:26
imbrandonthat would rock, could we slip that in -updates ?06:26
imbrandonmhb, edgy will have edges for new stuff ;)06:27
mhbimbrandon: I see it now06:27
mhbimbrandon: if you want to slip that in -updates it would be good to poke all the translators about that06:27
mhbimbrandon: I can do that06:27
=== allee [n=ach@allee.exgal.mpe.mpg.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
imbrandonmhb, ok but let us get the implmentaion worked out first, i'm sure it would hit rosetta06:27
imbrandonbut sounds like a .plan06:28
imbrandoncoreymon77, sorry , was a bit into a disscussion06:28
=== Jucato [n=Jucato@] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
mhbimbrandon: -doc and lang guys should know about it at the right time, that's what I say06:28
imbrandonyes you are more than welcome to help translate http://launchpad.net ( not sure about the direct link but mhb could point you there )06:28
imbrandoncoreymon77, ^^06:29
mhbcoreymon77: https://launchpad.net/rosetta/06:29
fdovingone point about the /.hidden link, is that removing it will make it re-appear when kubuntu-system-settings is reinstalled. (it's in the postinst script, and it's not a config file.) The real file is /etc/kubuntu-default-settings/hidden-root and that's what users should remove if they don't want it.06:29
imbrandonand if you wish to help out packaging check out the package guide ( url to follow ) and hang out in #ubuntu-motu 06:29
imbrandon!package guide06:29
ubotuThe packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources06:29
imbrandonfdoving, correct06:29
mhbfdoving: thanks06:30
abattoirfdoving: or making it empty solves it too, right?06:30
fdovingabattoir: true.06:30
abattoir /.hidden, i.e06:31
fdovingbut, does adept handle user input now? or does it fail when files have been changed and apt ask what to do? 06:31
mhbRiddell: using the .directory entries this way would be really cool06:31
mhbRiddell: I'd be a lot happier then06:32
Tonio_Riddell: QString xmluiFile=cfg.readEntry("XMLUIFile","konqueror.rc");06:32
Tonio_this is why we miss options sometimes....... the good file isn't loaded...... pretty easy to fix though :)06:32
fdovingRiddell: does gnome-stuff handle .directory ? 06:32
imbrandonfdoving, yes06:33
fdovingok, good.06:33
imbrandonerr .directory , i misread that as .hidden06:33
imbrandondunno i'll have to look06:33
imbrandonbut i would assume so06:34
mhbfdoving: I guess so, not sure either06:34
fdovingi consider that important.06:34
mhbfdoving: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LangpacksDesktopfiles06:37
fdoving[URL properties] 06:40
fdovingworks for konq.06:40
fdovingin /.directory06:40
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fdovingmy firefox does not understand that key.06:44
Tonio_Riddell: I'm preparing a new kds, renaming konq_kubuntu.rc to konqueror.rc, that resolves bug  4159406:44
UbugtuMalone bug 41594 in kubuntu-default-settings "dapper: konqueror (web) won't always show all menu entries" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4159406:44
Tonio_no need to maintain a patch for this :)06:44
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coreymon77ive finished the translating of adept updater into hebrew06:52
mhbcoreymon77: thanks, it's aprreciated. However, I must inform you that we are already past the langugage pack deadline for Edgy Eft release06:53
mhbcoreymon77: so don't be upset when your current translation won't ship with Edgy Eft, it will get to it with a language pack update (once in a month IIRC)06:54
=== rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel
mhbcoreymon77: the Ubuntu and Kubuntu developers need some time to prepare the packages, that's why the deadline happened a few days before the release of Edgy Eft06:55
coreymon77thats alright06:55
coreymon77im still doing someting06:56
coreymon77how do i become a part of a translator team?06:57
mhbcoreymon77: go to the https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-he and in the top left corner there is a "Join Team" option06:58
marseillaiRiddell: i'm currently waiting kopete developer but i tell you a problem i've find. in edgy each update of kopete makes me loose my notification rules specific for each group or contact. general rules for notification stay but specific disappear. so i'll ask if it's a kubuntu specific problem or a kopete specific problem.06:59
coreymon77whats the deal with this generate gpg key thing07:02
coreymon77its not working07:02
coreymon77it gets to the generate alot of bbues thing07:02
coreymon77and then just stops07:02
coreymon77why is07:02
coreymon77what is going on?07:02
coreymon77its fixed07:03
coreymon77what is my keyid?07:06
Riddellgpg --fingerprint jriddell@ubuntu.com07:08
Riddellpub   1024D/DD4D5088 2001-10-0907:08
=== ajmitch [n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Riddell1024D/DD4D5088 bit is the ID07:08
coreymon77i think i found it07:10
coreymon77what the07:12
coreymon77i got this email full of a bunch of gibberish07:12
coreymon77what do i do with it?07:12
coreymon77Riddell: what do i do with the gibberish email?07:13
coreymon77i cant do anything until i figure out what to do with this gibberish email (aka how to decrypt it) so can someone please help?07:16
Riddellcoreymon77: save it as a file and run it through gpg07:16
sebascoreymon77: http://www.dewinter.com/gnupg_howto/english/GPGMiniHowto.html Has all the info you need.07:17
mhbRiddell: the fix for the guidance translation is in a released update already (so I understand the Fix Released)07:18
Riddellmhb: yes, although the new .pot will need to be imported into rosetta07:18
coreymon77what do i save it as07:19
coreymon77a regular text file?07:19
mhbRiddell: can I bypass it (and test it) with renaming .mo files?07:20
Riddellmhb: sure07:20
coreymon77what do i save the text inside the gibberish email as?07:20
mhbcoreymon77: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto07:21
mhbcoreymon77: helpful as well07:22
=== abattoir [n=abattoir@cm238.omega16.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #kubuntu-devel
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coreymon77i coppied the stuff from the email and saved it as blah07:30
coreymon77but when i run gpg --decrypt blah07:30
coreymon77ists gives me an error07:30
coreymon77gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.07:30
coreymon77gpg: decrypt_message failed: eof07:30
mhbRiddell: I wonder ... if I did a module for About Me in systemsettings that would be a tool for enabling some power-user tweaks in k-d-s, would that be accepted?07:31
coreymon77what does that eror mean07:31
coreymon77i give up07:33
mhbcoreymon77: did you follow the howto?07:33
coreymon77do i have to sign the cconduct thing first07:34
Riddellmhb: sounds unlikely07:34
coreymon77i typed in gpg --decrypt blah07:34
coreymon77and i have me07:34
Tonio_Riddell: already tested dolphin file manager ? looks very nice !07:34
coreymon77gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.07:34
coreymon77gpg: decrypt_message failed: eof07:34
RiddellTonio_: yes, it's interesting07:34
raphinkhi 07:35
Tonio_Riddell: I agree... could be very usefull for all those who find konqueror to complicated07:35
coreymon77what does that eror mean?07:35
mhbRiddell: nevermind then07:35
Tonio_but replacing konqueror looks like... a crime :)07:35
raphinkRiddell: how are tasks defined?07:35
raphinkRiddell: as in, when is Task: kubuntu-desktop added to packages?07:36
LureTonio_: dolphin for file mgmt, firefox for web browsing?07:36
=== Lure hides
coreymon77im confused07:37
Riddellraphink: Kamion knows the details of that better than I do07:37
raphinkRiddell: alright :)07:38
raphinkI pint him too much lately ;)07:38
raphinkRiddell: do you at least know where the list of packages in a task is set?07:38
=== coreymon77 is ssssssoooooooooo confused, and wants an explanation of what to do, in english
Lureanybody else experience kded 100% cpu usage after login and first kmail/akregator access of kwallet - only kill -9 helps07:40
Lureand when kded started from console, I get this unresolved libcrypto symbols: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/3307:40
Riddellraphink: well, the seeds07:40
raphinkah it's taken from the seeds?07:41
LureRiddell: ^^^ could this be caused by recent libcrypto update (rebuild required?)07:41
Riddellraphink: yes07:41
RiddellLure: I've not seen that07:41
raphinkhmm but then07:41
raphinkhow is it put together?07:41
raphinkduring build?07:41
Tonio_Lure: don't even think about it :)07:42
=== Lure did not hide for long enough ;-)
Tonio_Lure: but if there was a kde based web browser, I would say that's "imaginable"07:42
LureRiddell: funny is that I have clean profile created on clean RC install, so could hardly say it is some old stuff..07:43
Tonio_dolphin is really nice for file browsing, really, really nice07:43
LureTonio_: is it in universe?07:43
Tonio_but we should have a package at least in universe07:43
Tonio_here is the link07:44
=== Lure starts stopwatch to see how quickly Tonio_ packages ;-)
Tonio_Lure: okay, start it  ! let's go07:44
coreymon77this  is pointless07:44
LureTonio_: btw, *thank you* for view toolbar icon in konqueror!07:45
raphinkLure: cmon you're not letting him concentrate on his race ;)07:45
Tonio_Lure: I'm just working on it, to make 3 buttons back07:45
Tonio_and replace the refresh/stop by one button only07:45
Tonio_Lure: packages on my repo in an hour07:45
Lureraphink: he need to have something to do while waiting for build to finish ;-)07:46
raphinksure, while test build is running, he can prepare debian/07:46
LureTonio_: what 3 buttons back?07:46
Tonio_Lure: the original function has 3 buttons07:48
Tonio_which is probably better to switch07:48
Tonio_Lure: but don't speak to me please :)07:48
Tonio_I'm packaging dolphin !!!07:48
LureTonio_: I already forgot about that07:48
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Tonio_Lure: done !07:58
Tonio_what's the time ?07:59
LureTonio_: 14 minutes07:59
LureTonio_: I will need more to install it ;-)07:59
jdonglol, is this a packaging race?07:59
Tonio_Lure: bah it is not build yet ;)08:00
Tonio_gimme 10 minutes more08:00
Lurejdong: yes, I am teasing Tonio_ - the fastest packager ever!08:00
Tonio_but the build time doesn't count ! I don't have a dualcore !08:00
=== jdong considers switching back to KDE for the day
jdongit's been a fun week in GNOME08:01
jdongbut all fun has to come to an end08:01
mhbjdong: don't do it, most of your files will be hidden :o)08:01
jdong(I'd still like to be able to set my printer properties from the print dialog dammit)08:01
jdongdamn crusaders08:01
mhbjdong: are they?08:01
jdongmhb: sadly GNOME respects .hidden too08:01
mhbjdong: well if you don't have k-d-s they aren't, AFAIK08:02
mhbjdong: my pure-GNOME friend said that, I could be wrong08:02
Tonio_Lure: note that I didn't even download the sources when you started :)08:02
jdongmhb: right, but I do have kubuntu-desktop + ubuntu-desktop installed....08:03
Tonio_the longuest is to write the manpage in fact08:03
Tonio_Lure: will be on my repo in a fiew minutes08:05
Tonio_Lure: http://ubuntu.tonio/homelinux.org08:07
Riddellsebas: do you have nvidia?08:08
sebasRiddell: Yes08:08
LureTonio_: downloading08:08
Riddellsebas: which driver is used by default on install?08:08
Tonio_Lure: was that fast enough ? :)08:09
LureTonio_: what is your amarok package all about?08:09
Riddellsebas: actually, tackat is probably messenging you about it08:09
LureTonio_: as expected ;-)08:09
sebasUhm, dunno. It's been some time since I did a clean install on this machine08:09
Tonio_Lure: lol08:09
LureTonio_: ;-)08:09
sebasThanks for the warning, Riddell  ;-)08:09
sebasToo late though :>08:09
Tonio_Lure: my amarok package installs a new desktop file, for konqueror integration, so that we can replace kscd08:12
Tonio_Lure: all the multimedia simplification is on my repo, that's why there are so many packages08:12
Tonio_Lure: including the kaffeine without audio, and the k3b you helped me to patch etc...08:13
LureTonio_: you are too fast for us - I thought that we would discuss this in mtv and not just review your work and say GREAT ;-)08:13
Tonio_Lure: that'll be tested and reviewed, but I prepare to have something working so that I don't have to explain for hours what the result should be :)08:13
Tonio_this is just a testing implementation08:13
Tonio_this will probably be changed08:14
LureTonio_: I know - prototype tells much more than lots of words08:14
Tonio_exactly ;)08:14
Tonio_I also prepared kdebase, kdelibs and kdeutils including my ark patches08:15
Tonio_I'll probably suggest a new way to deal with compressed files08:15
Ingmar^http://pastebin.com/812072 <= how do i fix this ? " WARNING: Can't read module /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-generic/kernel/drivers/char/dtlk.ko: No such device " && a dozen of variations ...08:15
LureTonio_: we should try to talk with upstream to include some of these changes, not sure if kaffeine devel would be interested in patch to drop/make it configurable in build audio support08:15
Tonio_using the kpart by defualt, giving about the same rendering than the ioslaves08:15
Tonio_lots of people prefer this than standalone viewer08:15
Tonio_Lure: I already discussed with kaffeine upstream.....08:16
Riddell** new CDs out http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/08:16
Tonio_but he doesn't want to waste time fixing his code08:16
LureTonio_: they do not talk with you anymore, no? ;-)08:16
Tonio_Lure: he is only interested in dvb support now08:16
Tonio_Lure: hehe, some do not indeed :)08:16
Tonio_Lure: and lots of upstream do not like that we patch their stuff to much08:17
Tonio_or even change the default config, konversation upstream for example...08:17
Tonio_but I don't mind08:17
LureTonio_: but that is a life of kubuntu developers ;-)08:17
Tonio_if they don't want us to implement the way we want, they can provide proprietary licence08:17
sebasIs the kmail bugfix patch going into Edgy?08:18
LureI think Kubuntu is great playground to try new concepts and I think it is important also for kde4 development (where some consolidation will happen)08:18
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sebas</devil's advocate>08:18
Luresebas: imbrandon claims it is already in08:18
Tonio_Lure: true that08:18
sebasAye, that's good.08:18
Luresebas: are you in mtv ?08:19
Tonio_Lure: I'll ping k3b upstream for the --device patch08:19
sebasYes, will be.08:19
Tonio_could be usefull for scripting, really08:19
Luresebas: great 08:19
sebasMy new passport arrived last week.08:19
sebasLure: You too? Cool!08:19
Tonio_but concerning kaffeine....... I don't expect much more than beeing ignored...08:19
Luresebas: yep, I am in US (for work) next week, so I will just extend for another week08:20
Ingmar^http://pastebin.com/812072 <= how do i fix this ? " WARNING: Can't read module /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-generic/kernel/drivers/char/dtlk.ko: No such device " && a dozen of variations ...08:20
=== sebas is off.
=== jdong_ [n=jdong@d192-24-111-159.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== ..[topic/#kubuntu-devel:Riddell] : Welcome to #kubuntu-devel | Test the CD candidates!
marseillaiSince edgy i've lost one hour of autonomy and suspend to disk on my laptop! :(08:35
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Tonio_marseillai: I have battery duration issues too08:39
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Tonio_from 2 hours to 1h15 maximum...08:39
marseillaiTonio_: it seems my hard drive is always searching08:39
Riddellmaybe lure's change yesterday will fix it08:39
LureTonio_: dolphin is nice and fast - just need to improve keyboard support 08:39
marseillaiTonio_: 4hours to three08:39
Tonio_Lure: yes I agree08:39
LureRiddell: fix what??08:40
Luremarseillai: do you have kerry or strigi installed?08:40
RiddellLure: when battery low is measured08:40
marseillaiLure: of course not on a laptop! :)08:40
Riddellor critical rather08:40
Luremarseillai: did you have laptop-mode on in dapper?08:40
marseillaiLure: yes i had08:41
LureRiddell: my fix has nothing to do with this - it is just safety measure for some corner cases08:41
Tonio_Riddell: just saw a kds update today, did dholbach upload to bzr ?08:41
Luremarseillai: I also think that edgy consumes more power and cpu - my laptop just feels warmer (actually hot)08:42
RiddellTonio_: mmm no, he's not a kubuntu-member, please sync up08:42
Tonio_Riddell: okay will do after lunch08:42
marseillaiLure: yes perhaps but loose one quarter of autonomy seems to be enormous08:42
Luremarseillai: agreed - maybe you should try booting dapper kernel to see if kernel is the cause08:43
marseillaiLure: i assume i've remove them! i'll try08:43
Luremarseillai: check also: sudo laptop_mode status08:44
marseillaihow can i do that Lure ?08:45
Luremarseillai: run in it konsole and check if it is on08:45
coreymon77im gonna ask again08:47
coreymon77can you help me with the decryption thing08:47
=== _Sime just finished reading irc backlog. *pooh*
coreymon77i dont know how to get the decyrption to work08:48
coreymon77launchpad sent me a gibberish email saying i have to decrypt it08:48
coreymon77i dont understand how08:48
coreymon77and these howtos ive been told to go to arent helping08:49
=== marsport [n=marseill@AMarseille-256-1-119-200.w90-4.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #kubuntu-devel
coreymon77can someone please help me08:49
marsportLure: laptop_mode doesn't work08:50
marsportLure: i'm marseillai 08:50
Luremarsport: does not return anything or is it disabled?08:50
coreymon77can someone please help me!08:51
marseillaiLure: thanks not laptop_mode is activate and i've 30 minutes of autonomy back! still lose 30 other but it's a better. thanks a lot09:01
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Luremarseillai: good to know09:15
marseillaiLure: really thanks a lot09:16
marseillainow i'm working to get my hibernation back it seems the problem is with swsusp09:16
marseillaii can't see the entire message it's too fast09:16
marseillaibut i hibernate swsusp gives an error after two other about wich i can't say anything then it lock my screen and came back to kde with screen lock09:17
Luremarseillai: just run "sudo pmi action hibernate" from konsole to see all messages09:25
Luremarseillai: does it break on hibernate or on resume?09:25
marseillaiLure: the first time i run it, it breaks on resume! now it breaks on hibernate.09:26
Luremarseillai: do you have swap enabled? (cat /proc/swaps) 09:26
marseillaiLure: i reboot to return on edgy kernel and tell you this09:26
LureI suspect that broke on resume may broken your swap and now you cannot hibernate as swap is missing09:27
marseillaiLure: cat /proc/swaps is empty09:29
Luremarseillai: that is it - try "sudo swapon -a"09:29
Luredo you use lvm?09:30
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marsportLure: swapon: /dev/disk/by-uuid/aa0abb45-4fa9-4d81-8895-d25323e8ed12: Argument invalide09:31
marsportLure: don't know what is lvm ... 09:31
Tonio_Riddell: the kds modification for the konqueror settings loading works ;) 09:31
Tonio_Riddell: not even a patch to maintain09:31
Tonio_Riddell: just sad I didn't found the solution before edgy......09:31
Luremarsport: I am just searching for a bug that mdz assigned today to Keybuk - I think you have the same problem...09:31
marsportLure: so wait for upgrade ?09:32
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Luremarsport: you can fix it by doing "sudo mkswap <dev>" (be sure that <dev> is the right partition!) and then put the returend uuid into /etc/fstab in the swap line, 09:33
Luremarsport: and also /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume09:34
Luremarsport: "sudo swapon -a" (should work now) and "sudo update-initramfs -u", reboot and it should work at least once (hibernate)09:34
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Luremarsport: see  bug 6663709:35
UbugtuMalone bug 66637 in Ubuntu "swap not being mounted on boot" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6663709:35
marsportLure: in /etc/initramfs/conf.d/resume i should have RESUME=<uuid of swap?>09:38
Luremarsport: RESUME=UUID=<uuid of swap>09:38
Luremarsport: same "device" as in /etc/fstab09:38
Luremarsport: and swapon -a will probably not work until reboot09:39
marsportoki lure let's reboot and try09:40
Luremarseillai: and please try hibernate from konsole so that you get output09:40
Lureanybody interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuFirefox#preview09:42
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marseillaiLure: now hibernate works but i got this mistake : "pnp: failed to activate device 00:04 and pnp: failed to activate device 00:05" i try a resume!09:48
marseillaiLure: ?09:48
marseillaiyou know what?09:48
Luremarseillai: you can ignore this error (i have it too)09:48
marseillaiit works fine now! :)09:49
Luremarseillai: great09:49
marseillaithanks a lot for your time and your help09:49
nukuLure: a hacky solution for kde dialogs in fx: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=36077 :)09:49
Lurenuku: I know abouth that one - too ugly to even discuss ;-)09:50
nukuhehe :)09:50
nukubut it seems to work at least... well i must admit that i don't use fx at all :)09:51
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zorglu_q. i rebooted, my root partition reached its 'maximal mount count' and a fsck has been launched, it faileds and display a red 'FAILED' for one second and *automatically* rebooted. not letting me time to read the whole message. is this normal to get this automatic reboot ?09:58
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osloafter i done a make install, trying to launch the apps, /usr/local/kde/share/apps/kicker/applets/ftpmonitor.desktop , does this one can help me run ftpmonitor, 'cause i'm not finding how ???10:46
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steveirehttp://vizzzion.org/?id=pyqt < Hey, that tutorial mentions using pyuic to make a gui from a foo.ui file. I don't seem to have any pyuic on my system though. Can somebody point me at it?10:55
nixternalif you are doing Qt4, then look at getting pyqt4-dev-tools10:57
mhbhi folks, I'm back10:57
mhbimbrandon, Tonio_ : I must say most people react positively about the directory hiding10:58
_Simenixternal: ah ha! so that is where the qt4 version of pyuic is kept...10:59
mhbthey got me convinced it's a good thing after all :o) but IMO it needs to be documented well before the release10:59
nixternalapt-cache search pyuic10:59
_Simemhb: I had a quick look on ubuntuforums and there was just one or 2 people complaining.10:59
nixternali cheated10:59
mhb_Sime: I did a Czech Linux poll about it, I was against it at first but I'll probably change my mind11:00
mhb_Sime: as I said I think it needs to be documented better11:00
_Simemhb: it does need to be documented in the "What's new" list. It freaks the old timers out.11:01
mhb_Sime: see for example http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=263876 quote: "I'm curious as to where you found this out?"11:01
mhb_Sime: sure, plus some wiki page describing what, why and how to do it the old way11:01
mhbso we can simply say "Read this!" and that will suffice11:02
Tonio_mhb: thanks for beeing objective :)11:20
mhbTonio_: no problem, I'm not stubborn most of the time11:26
mhbTonio_: thanks for having patience with me .o)11:26
mhbif someone writes an informational wiki page about the /.hidden file feature, please let me know, thanks11:27
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sivanghi all11:32
sivangjust dropped by to say thank you for integrating k3b in kubuntu :)11:32
Riddellwe converted sivang to KDE!11:32
sivanghehe,  I'm getting too close , seriously :)11:33
sivangtrying 3-4 universe gnome burning solutions, and then n-c-b itself which chocked hard, k3b was the only thing to rescue11:34
sivangRiddell: I am in urgent need to burn some DVD-Rs for Liat, k3b just solved it and let me go on with life ;)11:34
Riddellsivang: fancy testing konversation in hebrew?  the 1.0.1 version should have good right to left support but it would be good to test that out11:34
sivangRiddell: lemme have it, do I need to update/dist-upgrade for latest to hit me?11:35
Riddellit went in last week11:35
=== sivang installs and tests
sivangRiddell: btw, k3b got SO much better since the last time I saw it11:35
sivangRiddell: somehere also around the Feisty cycle, we need to discuss integrating hubackup into kubuntu, although kubunutu probably has kdar already :)11:36
Riddellkdar isn't in main11:37
Riddellit's unmaintained11:38
sivangokay, so this makes integrating hubackup relevant.11:39
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Tonio_mhb: you don't require patience :)11:41
Tonio_don't claim to be worse than you are :)11:41
sivansivang: 11:42
sivangsivan: 11:42
sivangRiddell: seems to work with letting me input LTR cleanly11:43
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sivangRiddell: s/LTR/RTL/11:44
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Tonio_imbrandon: ping ?11:48
Tonio_or lure maybe ?11:49
Tonio_Lure: didn't thank you for correcting the specs wikipages :)11:56
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sivangcould someone remind me how to pull the Mac OS X style magic to ALT-F2 ? :)12:01
Riddellalt-space in kubuntu12:02
sivangRiddell: thanks!12:02
Tonio_sivang: give a try at kubuntu ? ;)12:03
sivangTonio_: Well, I give it tries a couple of times already 12:03
sivangTonio_: so this is not the first time12:03
Tonio_sivang: hehe okay :)12:04
sivangI'm though wondering, how quick could I get into packaging kubuntu stuff (given the stack and toolchain at the debhelper/cdbs level is different) and doing development.12:04
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Tonio_sivang: probably very quick12:05
Tonio_sivang: kubuntu packaging requires a few specific knowledge, but not that much12:06
Tonio_once you know about buildprep, the standard deps for kubuntu based apps, and the rosetta patch, you know enough to start12:06
Tonio_sivang: is there a kind of buildprep equivalent for gnome apps ?12:07
sivangTonio_: that's reassuring. Do you have any idea of a package I could look at if I want to learn to do sid->kubuntu mergers and/or sid->(upstream)->kubuntu mergers?12:07
sivangTonio_: I am not sure what buildprep is :)12:07
Tonio_sivang: kde apps have an admin folder, and the buildprep cdbs rule automates the make -f admin/Makefile.cvs, including patching the stuff before generating the Makefiles12:08
Tonio_sivang: hum, in fact merging apps doesn't require any specific most of the time12:08
Tonio_except for the rosetta patch12:08
sivangI see12:09
Tonio_sivang: the only specific is for packages that we have to manage differently than debian, like kmplayer12:09
Riddelland the autoconf 1.6 patch12:09
sivangRiddell: what does that patch entails? 12:09
Riddellf 1.612:09
Tonio_we are splitting it because we don't want to ship the full package, but appart from that, merging generally only consists in an entry in the changelog :)12:09
Riddelladding support for autoconf 1.612:09
Tonio_Riddell: ah ! true that, I forgot it ;)12:10
=== sivang was thining along the lines of libtoolize patches ... ohhh deadful
sivanghrm, dreadful12:10
Tonio_Riddell: 2.6 no ?12:10
nixternalryanakca: you around?12:10
sivangTonio_: re the mergers question, 12:10
Tonio_sivang: yes ?12:11
sivangTonio_: I did a merge when edgy started for notification-daemon12:11
ryanakcanixternal: doing math homework, but yes, I'm around...12:11
sivangthis involved taking relevant bits from the sid package,12:11
nixternalhehe, ok..i was gonna work on the release page a little, and was wondering what you haven't done yet ;)12:11
Riddellhmm, gnome does have a admin/Makefile.common equivalent but I can't find it just now12:11
nixternalyou have been rocking on it12:11
sivangtaking the stuff we want from upstream12:11
ryanakcanixternal: I looked at that DocBook book, looked at the sources for that book your working on... not more than that12:11
sivangand finally to merge it with out currnet package12:11
Riddellsivang: does gnome not use SVN yet?12:11
sivangTonio_: it was not easy, I can vouch12:11
ryanakcanixternal: rocking on?12:12
sivangRiddell: mostly not, most of the upstream archive is CVS AFAIK12:12

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