[02:22] <theCore> is there a plan to make the list of the changes between Dapper and Edgy?
[09:08] <mdke_> morning all
[09:10] <pygi> hey mdke_ 
[09:11] <Madpilot> hi mdke_ 
[09:13] <Burgundavia> 'ello
[09:28] <mdke_> hi there jono 
[09:28] <Burgundavia> jono: !
[09:29] <Burgundavia> good morning
[09:29] <jono> hey :)
[09:29] <Burgundavia> UK people means it is time for me to sleep
[09:29] <jono> hows things doc heroes?
[09:29] <Burgundavia> talk to you all another time
[09:29] <Burgundavia> jono: your boss keeps changing the artwork, nearly fucking the artwork for teh book
[09:29] <mdke_> not bad.
[09:29] <mdke_> is there any news on open sourcing the book?
[09:29] <Burgundavia> jono: ^
[09:30] <jono> mdke_, keep mails debs, but nothing yet
[09:30] <jono> which is frustrating
[09:30] <mdke_> hmm.
[09:30] <jono> mdke_, will ping her again and CC youy
[09:30] <mdke_> that would be good. 
[09:30] <jono> Burgundavia, yeah, would be nice if art freeze meant what it said :P
[09:30] <jono> mdke_, will do that now :)
[09:30] <mdke_> we should make book-incorporation one of the main aims for next release
[09:30] <Burgundavia> jono: Ubuntu (as a project) has never made an art freeze date
[09:31] <jono> Burgundavia, it has?
[09:31] <mdke_> I quite liked the art we had before reverting back to Dapper, tbh. Dunno what all the fuss is about
[09:31] <jono> Burgundavia, there was an art freeze for dapper
[09:31] <mdke_> jono: he means "never successfully complied with"
[09:31] <tonyyarusso> Is all of the old and rejected artwork available somewhere?
[09:32] <jono> oh right :)
[09:32] <jono> I getcha
[09:32] <mdke_> tonyyarusso: I think so - you can ask on the art mailing list
[09:32] <tonyyarusso> 'k
[09:33] <jono> mdke_, ok mailed, there may be a delay as she has been away due to a family thing
[09:33] <mdke_> jono: thanks. Do you know what the delay has been caused by up to now?
[09:33] <jono> mdke_, no idea, I am sure its some internal Prentice Hall red tape
[09:34] <jono> debra is pretty punctual, so I doubt its a slackness
[09:34] <Burgundavia> jono: artwork has also been the only feature to have ignored their freezes
[09:34] <mdke_> I understood that Canonical had the copyright
[09:34] <Burgundavia> so did I
[09:34] <jono> yep
[09:34] <Burgundavia> and the book is technically already under the CC, by the license in the back of the book
[09:34] <Burgundavia> we just want a electronic copy
[09:34] <jono> but PH are the publisher, so there are issues with clearance
[09:35] <jono> Burgundavia, I know, but its still a tricky process for a publisher
[09:35] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:35] <Burgundavia> anyway, I truly need to sleep
[09:35] <mdke_> Burgundavia: having an open source license without the source is not particularly helpful though
[09:35] <jono> yes, they should have had it online before, but hey, people get busy and rules get made
[11:18] <LaserJock> mdke_: excellent spec :-)
[12:07] <ray_52> g'day all
[05:25] <altereg0`> just a heads up on the front page of yelp: I don't currently have my launchpad details on this install of edgy - but the front page of the help docs has the packaging guide heading in French on an english-au install: viz: "Empaquetage de nouvelles applications pour Ubuntu"
[07:11] <LaserJock> hi mdke 
[08:10] <mdke> LaserJock: hi
[08:47] <mdke> LaserJock: which spec is that? the build system one?
[08:48] <Burgwork> mdke: do you want to arrange a post-edgy meeting?
[08:49] <LaserJock> mdke: yes, the one you emailed about
[08:49] <mdke> Burgwork: sounds like a good idea, except the me arranging it part
[08:49] <Burgwork> mdke: why so?
[08:50] <mdke> well, pure laziness reasons. Sure I'll arrange it
[08:50] <LaserJock> Burgwork: online or face-to-face?
[08:50] <mdke> I need to spend much of my Ubuntu time on the website though for a bit
[08:50] <Burgwork> LaserJock: online
[08:50] <Burgwork> did you and matthew connect on a website plan?
[08:53] <mdke> not yet.
[08:53] <mdke> we've exchanged a few ideas
[08:53] <mdke> I'd really like to merge the wiki and the official docs
[08:57] <Burgwork> yes, that would be cool
[08:57] <Burgwork> has that wiki<-->docbook thing been fully baked?
[08:59] <mdke> I don't know. mvirkkil!!
[08:59] <mdke> also, I think the "translation on help.u.c" thing hasn't worked well.
[10:23] <nixternal> talk about a lazy day
[10:26] <stelis> How so?
[10:27] <stelis> I got up early this morning, and am slightly jealous :) 
[10:28] <stelis> I've only just been been to get back to Edubuntu documentation, though
[10:29] <stelis> Hacking on the Help and Support bit
[10:30] <mdke> nice to hear some work on edubuntu docs
[10:31] <stelis> I've only really just started
[10:32] <stelis> But nixternal and co have got most of the Handbook done already
[10:33] <stelis> Hopefully when it goes out it will raise awareness a bit
[10:33] <mdke> great
[10:35] <nixternal> my eyes are crossed..i have 10 presentations ( a couple duplicates thank god) to get complete for this week
[10:36] <stelis> The frantic life of a University student :) ?
[10:36] <LaserJock> nixternal: you're just getting too old for all this ;-)
[10:36] <nixternal> ya
[10:36] <nixternal> i think i am..i have been worn down the past couple of days pretty bad
[10:36] <nixternal> heh
[10:36] <nixternal> warn down rather
[10:37] <crimsun> now juggle cousins/kids, grants proposals, committee hassles, and ALSA work!
[10:38] <nixternal> no thank you..i had the nieces and nephews yesterday..that was enough
[10:38] <mdke> you can have help.ubuntu.com too
[10:38] <nixternal> give it to me ;)
[10:39] <nixternal> haha
[10:39] <stelis> That reminds me... I saw lot of pages marked CategoryCleanup
[10:40] <nixternal> shhhhh
[10:40] <stelis> I was going to update some
[10:40] <Burgwork> stelis: then get to work ;)
[10:40] <stelis> But wasn't sure what the criteria was for making a page current if you see what I mean
[10:41] <nixternal> ya, after edgy is out, im sure we will get back to cleaning up the wiki again
[10:41] <Burgwork> the criteria is that they show instructions for all supported distros
[10:41] <Burgwork> they also need to follow general style guidelines
[10:41] <mdke> haven't we got some instructions hanging around?
[10:41] <Burgwork> yep
[10:42] <Burgwork> devil if I remember now
[10:42] <mdke> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide
[10:42] <mdke> stelis: look at that, especially "Style"
[10:42] <mdke> obviously in terms of content, the page should be really good too
[10:42] <stelis> What I wasn't sure of is who makes the call as to when the page is good enough
[10:42] <Burgwork> you do
[10:43] <stelis> To be taken off the hitlist
[10:43] <nixternal> lol
[10:43] <nixternal> after you edit, just remove the CategoryCleanup from the bottom
[10:43] <stelis> That saves formfilling :)
[10:44] <stelis> Sure - I've worked on Wikis before
[10:44] <nixternal> yes, because I used to email the list all the time with my edits, and burg and mdke responded with "please stop!"
[10:44] <stelis> But each community has it's own rules
[10:44] <nixternal> yes
[10:44] <nixternal> the Ubuntu Documentation projects number one rule is
[10:44] <nixternal> you don't talk about ubuntu documentation
[10:44] <nixternal> you knew that was coming i bet..no more tv for me
[10:45] <stelis> Cliches are cliches because they're good
[10:45] <stelis> I loved that film
[10:47] <stelis> I've been making notes on setting up Vmware, and noticed that the Wiki pages for it need cleanup
[10:48] <stelis> Is there a restriction/guideline on third-party apps?
[10:48] <nixternal> stelis: heh, you can remove my "VMware" page that i started, as that was my task a few months back, but of course that got side tracked with other work
[10:49] <mdke> stelis: that would ROCK - there are a million different VMware pages that need integrating
[10:49] <stelis> mdke: That's what I noticed
[10:50] <stelis> It needs some tough love to sort out :)
[10:56] <mdke> stelis: yeah
[10:57] <stelis> Which is why I felt I ought to check on the protocol, and not just rewrite a bunch of other people's work and maybe even start sticking in redirects  
[10:58] <mdke> the redirect policy is in WikiGuide there somewhere too, I hope
[10:58] <nixternal> #refresh 0 http://external.link
[10:58] <nixternal> or
[10:59] <nixternal> #redirect WikiPage/SubPage
[10:59] <mdke> not so much how to do it, but when to do it
[10:59] <nixternal> ahh, yes of course
[11:00] <stelis> There's a short on how but I can't see much about the "when"
[11:00] <stelis> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/DeletingAndRenaming
[11:00] <stelis> But I'm speed-reading
[11:01] <mdke> yeah, you're right
[11:01] <stelis> I think that all that there is on redirects
[11:04] <mdke> we should add some stuff
[11:05] <stelis> I probably won't get round to working on this for a week or two, so I'll just ask here if/when redirects become an issue
[11:06] <mdke> hmm. The official docs on help.u.c break 500MB. That's gonna take a while to upload
[11:06] <stelis> Ouch
[11:11] <nixternal> nah, that is about a 2 hour upload i think for me
[11:13] <mdke> heh
[11:13] <mdke> I am on 128kbit upload. We'll see what bzip can do
[11:26] <stelis> It's my day for silly questions...
[11:26] <stelis> Is there a DocBook entity for "Debian"
[11:26] <stelis> I can't see one in the global.ent
[11:27] <stelis> Or generic.ent
[11:41] <mdke> stelis: no. Just write Debian
[11:41] <mdke> we have far too many silly entities
[11:41] <stelis> Thanks.
[11:43] <nixternal> mdke: what should be an entity, and what shouldn't?
[11:43] <nixternal> version numbers?
[11:43] <nixternal> however, numbers are translatable strings in some languages
[11:44] <stelis> There's entities for the Ubuntu distros, so I wondered if there was one for Debian too
[11:46] <stelis> I've seen DocBook where different entity sets go with different translations
[11:47] <nixternal> ya, kde does it like that
[11:47] <stelis> It's a knotty problem...
[11:49] <mdke> nixternal: something that will save you time when typing
[11:49] <nixternal> url's are about the only thing that would save time, as doing 6.10 is quicker than doing &distro-rev;
[11:51] <mdke> things like menu entries, separate files, etc
[11:51] <mdke> but yeah, also things that are easier to change in one file than doing find/replace over loads
[12:06] <nixternal> g'nite
[12:08] <stelis> night