[06:53] <Kamion> .wg 25
[06:53] <Kamion> (sorry!)
[08:58] <heno> frafu: I removed your onboard agenda, point as it's more of a bug report really
[08:59] <frafu> ok
[08:59] <heno> this meeting is meant to focus on blue-sky new ideas and wishes :)
[08:59] <frafu> blue-sky?
[08:59] <frafu> ok
[09:00] <frafu> i got it
[09:01] <heno> We'll start in a few minutes
[09:01] <heno> some of the usual participants are missing
[09:01] <heno> I expect TheMuso is asleep in .au :)
[09:02] <heno> Welcome Joanie!
[09:02] <Joanie> thanks heno
[09:03] <krister> Don't know if it's ok to introduce oneself yet, but anyways, hi, Krister from Sweden here. Rather new in the a11y team.
[09:03] <heno> great idea :)
[09:03] <heno> I'm Henrik Omma, from Norway, Ubuntu Accessibility Coordinator
[09:04] <TheBadger> Here goes then, I'm Mikael also from Sweden, and also quite new.
[09:04] <Joanie> Joanie Diggs, USA, volunteer worker bee (delegate to me)
[09:04] <krister> Hi my scandinavian brother.:)
[09:04] <heno> Hi :)
[09:04] <heno> How many people here bare using Edgy now?
[09:05] <frafu> Francesco Fumanti from Luxembourg; rather new to linux
[09:05] <TheBadger> I do
[09:05] <heno> I get a feeling that people have been quite early in testing bleeding edge stuff
[09:06] <heno> Hi gk4, we are doing introductions
[09:06] <krister> I also use Edgy and have done so after a tip from the badger here.
[09:06] <frafu> i do on my second machine 
[09:06] <hittsjunk> I've switched from main stream Debian to Ubuntu in early September.
[09:07] <heno> So today we really just have two rather broad topics
[09:07] <heno> #1 is Edgy+1 planning
[09:07] <heno> now known as Feisty 
[09:07] <Joanie> hehehe Feisty what?
[09:08] <heno> Fawn :)
[09:08] <Joanie> lol cool thanks
[09:08] <gk4> I'm George Kraft <gk4> from IBM.  I'm working on Linux accessibility for Gnome.
[09:08] <heno> One approach is to look at the wishlist on http://live.gnome.org/Boston2006/AccessibilitySummit
[09:09] <heno> and think about which parts of that are realistic in the next 6 months
[09:09] <heno> and perhaps 12 months
[09:09] <krister> How broad a field do we actually cover, i mean is it our goal to make as many programs as possible accessible or just a few main stream ones, like in that other alien operating system ya know?:)
[09:10] <heno> The role of Ubuntu here should be to try to bring together some work that is going on in the community and package it in a useful way
[09:11] <heno> krister: in our case it's more about making the toolkits and infrastructure accessible and the apps will follow
[09:11] <heno> so most GTK stuff works well
[09:11] <heno> while the KDE/QT stuff needs a lift with an AT-SPI implementation
[09:11] <krister> That's the cool thing with this desktop. Most things seem to work.
[09:12] <heno> of course we also need to test individual apps
[09:12] <heno> right, but very key things like the browser are lagging a bit
[09:12] <krister> Can i be specific for a moment or is this the wrong forum for it?
[09:12] <heno> but great work is being done there
[09:13] <heno> krister: go ahead
[09:14] <krister> Any word on a good rather advanced audio editor? and how about ocr programs?
[09:14] <heno> krister: I'm not sure if Jokosher is advanced enough
[09:14] <heno> but is under rapid development
[09:14] <heno> and is generally accessible
[09:15] <heno> though we should follow it up closely
[09:15] <hittsjunk> Ocrad and gocr are good enough now for me to use them to read my print mail.
[09:15] <heno> hittsjunk: and you have them running on Ubuntu?
[09:15] <hittsjunk> yes
[09:16] <krister> I've seen a little of Jokosher, and it looks promising but i don't think it's there quite yet, but i could be wrong. I only have an rather old version.
[09:16] <heno> would you mind writing a short howto somewhere?
[09:16] <heno> hittsjunk: ^
[09:16] <heno> in the forum, wiki or on the list
[09:16] <hittsjunk> I still run them in a gnome terminal, so Windows users won't like my solution.
[09:17] <hittsjunk> I feed the output from scanimage to the OCR engines.
[09:17] <krister> There should be some sort of gui front end for GOcr. Could you please write the solution to the list anyway, Hitsjunk.
[09:17] <hittsjunk> ok
[09:17] <heno> hittsjunk: we should really get that linked up with the scanning app
[09:18] <Joanie> Hi Mike
[09:19] <krister> Hi Mike
[09:19] <heno> OK, so I now have one new spec idea: OCR support :)
[09:19] <krister> And support for midi sequenzers like Cakewalk or somesuch...
[09:20] <heno> Anyone have an estimate of when Firefox 3 will be somewhat stable?
[09:20] <heno> krister: are there any realistic candidates?
[09:21] <heno> it would probably need to be GTK, QT or command line
[09:21] <heno> What about media players, how are we doing there
[09:21] <Joanie> In terms of the list from the Accessibility Summit, if there is any way to look at the sound issues (item 14) that would be great
[09:21] <heno> ?
[09:21] <krister> What about Ardour? I looked around for more such things with apt-cache search and found a couple. Perhaps the badger knows something
[09:21] <Joanie> quirky sound issues take out screen readers 
[09:21] <hittsjunk> Real player is a gtk2 app, so Windows media is the only missing format I know about.
[09:22] <heno> hittsjunk: have you tried VLC with GTK or mplay (command line)?
[09:22] <MikePedersen> I think the real problem with sound cards is the legacy OSS support that often times gets used
[09:22] <hittsjunk> no
[09:23] <heno> Joanie: yep, I think we may be moving to polyaudio or something
[09:23] <Joanie> very cool
[09:23] <heno> Though I should raise this as an issue with our sound people (if we have any?...) 
[09:24] <Joanie> Yeah, if that can be prioritized.... 
[09:24] <heno> I'll add that to my topic list
[09:25] <Joanie> oh shoot, I just realized that I forgot to file on launchpad regarding a sound for the initial live cd screen
[09:25] <krister> Does anyone know if there's a sound forge like app for Linux accessible or not. Jokosher is multi-channel, Badger? or anyone
[09:25] <heno> MikePedersen: you were at the boston summit right?
[09:25] <Joanie> i'll file, but that little change would make a big difference
[09:25] <heno> we are looking at http://live.gnome.org/Boston2006/AccessibilitySummit
[09:25] <heno> to find implementable items :)
[09:26] <MikePedersen> yes I was
[09:26] <heno> krister: a good place to ask might be the ubuntu studio team: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=128
[09:27] <MikePedersen> We spent a lot of time talking about accessibility testing
[09:27] <heno> Of applications, right. Is that a key bottleneck now?
[09:28] <heno> Is the lack of support in application one of the main problems?
[09:28] <krister> Heno, can you please mail that url to me at krister@kristersplace.ws? I'll have to go to windblows to check that out, since i don't entirely trust my dear firefox 3.:-(
[09:28] <heno> And how much testing can be done manually by the community?
[09:29] <heno> as opposed to automated tools, still in development
[09:29] <heno> krister: sure
[09:29] <MikePedersen> yes, we'd like to get as much automated testing for the infrustructure and the applications as possible
[09:29] <hittsjunk> KrysterKryster, I saw an email about a sound editor in Emacs on the debian-accessibility list.  You mi9ght want to check the archives.
[09:30] <krister> Ok, i'll first tame Emacs and then i'll definitely check that.<smiles>
[09:30] <heno> MikePedersen: how far away is a working automated testing system do you think?
[09:31] <heno> that can see widespread use
[09:31] <MikePedersen> I don't know yet,  We are looking at dogtail right now
[09:31] <MikePedersen> There is also hope of more colaberation between the dogtail and LDTP guys 
[09:32] <heno> ok. we have some general testing plans as well, but progress seems to have been slow
[09:32] <MikePedersen> There will be a new list starting on gnome.org to discuss this shortly
[09:32] <heno> yep, we should encourage that
[09:35] <heno> anyone have comments about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs
[09:35] <heno> That's mainly my list of ideas
[09:35] <heno> but other people should add theirs
[09:36] <heno> How important is good access to GDM in real life?
[09:37] <krister> What situations are we talking about now, sorry dumb question?
[09:37] <heno> how many people use public/shared Ubuntu machines or may do so in the future
[09:37] <heno> where bthat would be important
[09:37] <Burgwork> heno: gdm accessibility is key thing
[09:37] <hittsjunk> The gdm sound letting me know I can login is good enough for me.
[09:37] <MikePedersen> we should be getting good aces to GDM with gnome 2.18.  Some of the patches have already been checked in.
[09:38] <heno> I guess most people have their home computers set up to ato login
[09:38] <heno> *auto
[09:38] <Joanie> yep, I think most do
[09:38] <hittsjunk> not me
[09:38] <jonsd> What's a GDM?
[09:38] <MikePedersen> didn't know you could do auto-login
[09:38] <Burgwork> jonsd: the login manager
[09:38] <heno> MikePedersen: good as in not broken or as in Just Works? :)
[09:39] <MikePedersen> Hopefully, just works
[09:39] <heno> AFAIR, the instructions for setting it up are several pages long
[09:39] <heno> ok
[09:39] <krister> I didn't know you could auto-login either...
[09:39] <hittsjunk> Until I can can run gnome apps on another system remotely, gdm isn't much use to me.
[09:39] <heno> so we could get that for free
[09:39] <Joanie> I'm thinking that needs to be on the wiki 
[09:39] <heno> (from gnome)
[09:40] <heno> Joanie: yes, there are some useful tips we should collate somewhere
[09:40] <MikePedersen> We'll also get apps that require sudo for free with 2.18
[09:40] <heno> not directly documentation, but just useful info
[09:40] <Joanie> right, tips and instructions for accomplishing them
[09:40] <krister> What i feel would be important, but it's probably worked on already is a good way of making speech and braille follow when you switch to root when doing things with Symaptic or the update manager or such.
[09:41] <heno> speaking of documentation :) Burgwork is on the doc team
[09:41] <MikePedersen> we'll get that with gnome 2.18 Krister
[09:41] <heno> I'm sure there are things we could update there
[09:42] <Joanie> burgwork:  you lead the doc team?
[09:42] <heno> should the access team have a documentation coordinator?
[09:42] <Burgwork> Joanie: no, mdke does
[09:42] <heno> That can work with the doc team
[09:42] <Joanie> oh dunno.  Just wondering if there is one, being one of the new kids on the block
[09:43] <Joanie> mdke is for general, or accessibility?
[09:43] <Burgwork> general
[09:43] <heno> and generally make sure we have reasonable docs for the web and the CD
[09:43] <Joanie> k ty
[09:44] <heno> that does not mean writing all the docs, but coordinating
[09:44] <frafu> a  coordinator for the doc would be a good idea, as the doc is rather sparsed around 
[09:44] <Joanie> yeah, maybe we should have someone coordinating
[09:44] <heno> So do we have volunteers ? ;)
[09:45] <heno> frafu: ?
[09:45] <Joanie> I am a volunteer worker bee; not coordinator :)
[09:45] <frafu> but it should be someone that already knows what documentation we already have 
[09:45] <heno> that rules me out :)
[09:45] <frafu> in order to clean it up
[09:46] <heno> we are at the start of a cycle now, so there is 4-5 months to get it in shape
[09:46] <frafu> I am afraid I don't know enough yet 
[09:47] <krister> Not me either.
[09:47] <MikePedersen> I'm afraid orca takes all my time.
[09:47] <frafu> maybe 2 coordinators, one for the visual impaired and one for the motor impaired
[09:48] <heno> We did have some people volunteering to do doc work on the list
[09:48] <krister> What would be the tasks?
[09:48] <heno> frafu: I'm not sure a split is a good idea. could cause confusion eventually
[09:48] <heno> make a list of the apps and topics that need documentation
[09:49] <heno> check the current status and ask others to help
[09:50] <heno> then coordinate with the doc team on what should go into their main documentation
[09:50] <heno> and what we should leave in the wiki
[09:51] <frafu> where would the doc be? (if not in the wiki) 
[09:51] <heno> in the help browser on the CD and on help.ubuntu.com
[09:51] <krister> Accompanying the program ass a special a11y readme, perhaps?
[09:52] <frafu> ok, for offline use!? 
[09:52] <heno> the advantage of adding content to the docteam pool is that it gets translated by many volunteers in rosetta
[09:52] <heno> frafu: right
[09:53] <heno> or even printing
[09:53] <frafu> Then it has to be in a special format? 
[09:53] <heno> some of the docteam stuff gets printed as well
[09:53] <heno> yes, docbook
[09:53] <heno> but the docteam can help transferring it from the bwiki
[09:53] <heno> *wiki
[09:54] <heno> that's their area of expertise
[09:54] <heno> it can all be written in the wiki first
[09:54] <frafu> Is the docpool anywhere online to see what is already available? 
[09:54] <heno> frafu: https://help.ubuntu.com/
[09:55] <MikePedersen> All, I now have to leave for another meeting.  If any questions come op for me, please send me a note at: michael.pedersen@sun.com
[09:55] <Joanie> take care Mike
[09:55] <heno> MikePedersen: cool, thanks for joining us!
[09:56] <MikePedersen> I'l always try to attend.
[09:56] <heno> OK so we'll let people chew on the doc coordination a bit
[09:56] <frafu> bye Mike
[09:56] <heno> another topic is forum coordination
[09:57] <heno> to keep an eye on the forums and stay in touch with the forum staff
[09:58] <heno> We are still getting a fair number of off-topic posts in there
[09:58] <heno> (about wireless access and such)
[09:58] <heno> but I'm not sure it's a big problem
[09:58] <frafu> is it not the job of the moderators of each forum? 
[09:59] <heno> someone has to notify them
[09:59] <heno> there are only about 20 of them for the whole forums
[09:59] <heno> so they cannot watch everything
[10:00] <frafu> notify by pm? 
[10:00] <krister> I don't think you can totally avoid such problems with posts drifting off-topic if you don't put up rules that prohibit those posts, and i don't think we want that.
[10:00] <heno> another task there would be to answer simple questions, point to documentation or seek help from the wider community if needed
[10:00] <heno> frafu: yes
[10:01] <heno> krister: it's not that they drift off topic, they start completely off topic
[10:01] <heno> they are about accessing your samba server not accessibility
[10:02] <heno> I'm not it's actually a problem though
[10:02] <krister> Ok, that sounds like wrong topics there...
[10:02] <frafu> i know of another board with a notify moderator button; may be it is a good idea to add such a button 
[10:02] <heno> I'm more worried about people not getting answers when they ask
[10:03] <heno> frafu: that is a good idea, I'll bring it up
[10:03] <krister> Or getting the all too common answer in this world, RTFM. I could maybe try answering simple questions on the list.
[10:03] <frafu> the button should be good visible 
[10:03] <heno> the most common example is sound problems
[10:03] <heno> or general boot problems
[10:04] <heno> which many forum regular know the answers to
[10:04] <hittsjunk> rtfm is the best thing to do when you are new to something.
[10:04] <heno> but our community is still a bit small, so we may not
[10:04] <Joanie> yeah, but rtfm is not all that friendly or in keeping with the ubuntu philosophy
[10:05] <Joanie> if we want more users with disabilities to adopt linux....
[10:05] <heno> yeah, it's bad form
[10:05] <frafu> and the person does not know what rtfm means;) 
[10:05] <Joanie> lol true frafu
[10:05] <heno> then it's ok :)
[10:05] <Joanie> but when they find out, they are likely to bail
[10:05] <hittsjunk> True, but I loose patients with people who ask me the same question over and over because they won't read the links I give them.
[10:05] <Joanie> radio transmitter frequency modulation, yeah, yeah....
[10:05] <heno> but it can be said nicely by providing a link
[10:05] <krister> And Kenny, i'll have to say that i consider myself very new to the Linux environment although i've come a long way, and sometimes, i find i don't even know what FM to R in the first place.:)
[10:06] <Joanie> agreed hittsjunk
[10:06] <Joanie> and agreed krister
[10:06] <heno> do others agree that one or two forum coordinators would be useful?
[10:07] <Joanie> yeah
[10:07] <heno> who can help new people and forward questions
[10:07] <heno> I'm not sure if the mailing lists need the same
[10:07] <heno> unlikely at this point
[10:07] <TheBadger> That's a good idea
[10:08] <krister> Hitsjunk, i know where you come from, but see it like this, maybe they don't understand what they read and you or i explain things better than a rather dry man page or link.
[10:08] <hittsjunk> Maybe, but the Gnome users guide explains basics better than I could.
[10:09] <krister> I can't argue with you there, because i've only been to the help system.:-)
[10:09] <heno> perhaps forum coordination/mentoring should actually be shared between a VI and an MI person?
[10:09] <hittsjunk> I don't mind answering questions about I link I tell you to read I just have a problem when people don't read.
[10:09] <frafu> vi,  mi? 
[10:10] <heno> since personal experience can be important in answering questions
[10:10] <heno> frafu: what you mentioned before: visual impairment and motoric impairment
[10:10] <frafu> I also answer question when I know what has to be done 
[10:11] <heno> of course 'other' people can apply too ;)
[10:11] <heno> frafu: do you think it would help in some way to have a coordinator hat?
[10:11] <heno> some semi-official role?
[10:12] <frafu> I still don't understand exactly what you mean 
[10:13] <frafu> if somebody wants to answer in the forum he will do so
[10:13] <heno> someone who checks the forum once a week for unanswered questions and can forward them with some official capacity to other parts of the forum or mailing lists
[10:13] <frafu> he can notify about wrong topics
[10:13] <heno> as a forum mentor
[10:14] <heno> right, but the forums have 130.000+ members, 99.9% of who don't read the accessibility section
[10:15] <heno> when a question about sound or partitioning show up
[10:15] <frafu> okk; are you talking about all the forums  or only the accessibiliy forum
[10:15] <frafu> ? 
[10:15] <heno> that can be linked to a new question in the general section
[10:16] <heno> explaining some of the background, why jumping to the shell might not be a working solution for this person, etc.
[10:16] <frafu> if you are talking only of the accessibiliy forum, i can do it 
[10:17] <heno> I'm talking about helping out in the access forums, yes
[10:17] <heno> but drawing on the resources of the whole community
[10:18] <frafu> unfortunately, I don't know much about accessibility except m2
[10:18] <heno> as someone who has a bit more of an overview than a completely new person
[10:19] <heno> but you now know where the general docs are found, how to log in to IRC to ask a question, etc
[10:19] <frafu> yes, i do
[10:19] <heno> and if you get stuck you can email or ping me on IRC
[10:19] <heno> if you don't know the answer you can draw in someone who does
[10:20] <frafu> i am ready to try and see what I can do 
[10:20] <heno> frafu: cool! I'll get you a hat :)
[10:20] <krister> Too bad i can't build Elinks with Ecma script suppoHeno, how about a fedora?:-)
[10:21] <krister> ignore the first part of that msg
[10:21] <heno> no, but seriously I think that other community members will be happy to help with forwarded questions
[10:21] <frafu> i will do my best 
[10:21] <finalbeta> Hello, I'm not part of the team, so I hope I'm not invading or in the wrong place. I posted the last idea on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Ideas/Edgy+1 "Enhance spell checking". Read you where looking for idea's, That one would be immensely handy. being able to switch between languages for spell checking.
[10:22] <frafu> you know already different people i could contact? 
[10:22] <heno> frafu: are you happy to look at vision/sound questions as well, or would you like someone to share the job?
[10:23] <heno> finalbeta: I agree. do you have an idea of what packages need improving to make that work?
[10:24] <frafu> it would be better if someone would share the job, otherwise I will probably only be able to point the person to already existing documentation
[10:24] <finalbeta> heno, I think it should be discussed on how it could even be implemented. Like when talking xchat, how do you allow users to switch.
[10:24] <heno> any other volunteers to help with the forum mentoring?
[10:24] <heno> (we can ask on the forum and lists too)
[10:25] <hittsjunk> I can try, but I'm not the most dependable.
[10:25] <heno> heh, ok thanks hittsjunk
[10:25] <heno> the volume is not too great ATM
[10:25] <heno> finalbeta: it would be nice to switch keyboard layouts too
[10:26] <krister> If the forum involves the mailing list, i can answer simple questions, but don't come to me for answers about programming or emacs, cause i don't know the first thing about them.:-)
[10:26] <heno> I keep typing  in the wrong places =
[10:26] <heno> :) rather
[10:27] <heno> krister: great, thanks. Looks like we have a support team!
[10:27] <krister> Then i'll take care of the mailing list?
[10:28] <heno> krister: excellent
[10:28] <finalbeta> heno, I agree, but that seems like another issue. Switching of keyboard layouts. Since that is global, and spell-checking supports seems to be something that is handled per application.
[10:28] <heno> finalbeta: I wonder if it would be possible for the spellchecker to figure out what language is being used?
[10:28] <krister> Hitsjunk, be ready for stupid newbie questions from me.:-)<smiles>
[10:29] <finalbeta> heno, MS Word can do it, but I have not yet seen it on a linux program.
[10:29] <hittsjunk> No problem.  I'll also try to answer questions on the list.
[10:29] <hittsjunk> Remember, most of my experience in in the console.
[10:30] <heno> it can often be useful to copy in other lists, like the general user list or gnome-accessibility
[10:30] <krister> I'm slowly getting used to that evil beast myself, finally.:)
[10:30] <heno> depending on the question
[10:31] <finalbeta> heno, the problem with spellchecking I think is that every program seems to have it's own way of doing it. Gaim, Openoffice, Totem, Xchat..., how can you enable spellchecking in multiple languages in all those packages in a consistent way.
[10:31] <heno> the a-devel list has not seen much use, but it will pick up with the new cycle
[10:31] <finalbeta> (Scratch Totem from that list :p )
[10:32] <heno> finalbeta: yep, it's a generally useful idea. do you know how to set up a spec?
[10:32] <Burgwork> finalbeta: there was a spec to change that
[10:32] <Burgwork> however, licensing is an issue
[10:32] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
[10:33] <finalbeta> Burgwork, yes, with firefox, that spec was to enable one spellchecking lib. But not to enable spellchecking in multiple languages
[10:33] <Burgwork> ah
[10:33] <jonsd> A spellchecker ought to be able to recognise which language by looking for the one with fewest errors.  Auto language recognition for TTS would be useful too.  Perhaps a spellchecker could look at the text in order to tell TTS whuch language?
[10:33] <finalbeta> Openoffice or firefox, on of the two needed it's own lib because of licensing. (I vagualy remember reading it)
[10:34] <Burgwork> FF
[10:34] <Burgwork> due to the MPL
[10:34] <frafu> is there not already a framework for spellchecking in linux that could be used by the different apps? 
[10:35] <Burgwork> there are a number of libraries that provide that framework
[10:35] <finalbeta> jonsd, indeed. The spellcheckers throughtout the system should be able to do this for the languages the user enabled language support for.
[10:35] <Burgwork> I guess you coudl say that there are multiple
[10:35] <heno> jonsd: that's s cool idea!
[10:35] <krister> Jonst, this provided that there's a tts engine for that language. AFAIK there's only one engine today that support Swedish, for example and that's Festival, and i don't know how good that is.
[10:36] <heno> perhaps it should be implemented in the spellcheckers first and then tie the TTS into that
[10:36] <jonsd> I'll set up a Sweedish voice for eSpeak if you want to make it useable :-)
[10:36] <TheBadger> Well i hope to in sometime have some success with swedish for the espeak.
[10:36] <hittsjunk> I don't know how ggood festival sounds in Swedish, but it is one of the more stable gnome-speech drivers.
[10:36] <jonsd> But Sweedish sounds look very complicated, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweedish_phonology
[10:36] <heno> what about spell checking as you type for screen reader users?
[10:36] <heno> is there anything useable today?
[10:37] <krister> No, or rather yes provided spell checker and speech provides the same languages.
[10:37] <heno> has anyone tried mbrola?
[10:37] <TheBadger> It is, but i have done some testing
[10:37] <heno> that does have Swedish 
[10:38] <krister> But mbrola and festival is the same, ain't it?
[10:38] <heno> does the same job, but in different ways
[10:38] <hittsjunk> No, festival can use mbrola voices, but they are different synths.
[10:39] <krister> Badger, is it the embrola voices you have for Swedish?
[10:39] <heno> mrbrola is also not 100% Debian free
[10:39] <heno> so we cannot put it on the CD
[10:39] <TheBadger> I hope we could get some better functionality with seech-dispatcher (or a direkt driver for espeak).
[10:39] <krister> could one stuff it into multiverse?
[10:40] <heno> but we could put it in 'multiverse'
[10:40] <heno> right
[10:40] <heno> It would be great to see some testing of this
[10:40] <heno> the Oralux team have made some packages as well
[10:40] <heno> which may well install on Ubuntu
[10:41] <krister> I'd love to, if i only knew what to do and how.<smiles>
[10:41] <heno> look back a few weeks in the mailing list at the post from Oralux about it
[10:41] <hittsjunk> I was planning to use the Oralux packages when I installed Mbrola this time.  I'll post my results.
[10:42] <heno> hittsjunk: cool!
[10:42] <krister> Does Embrola work with gnome-speech or speech dispatcher?
[10:42] <TheBadger> I've tried these a bit, but was unable to get the connection to gnome to work.
[10:43] <hittsjunk> You use Mbrola with festival, and the gnome-speech festival driver.
[10:43] <hittsjunk> The Mbrola voices will show up as festival voices.
[10:43] <krister> Sounds complex, is there a howto somewhere?
[10:43] <hittsjunk> yes
[10:43] <hittsjunk> I don't have the link handy, but I'll find it.
[10:44] <hittsjunk> If the Oralux packages work, it will be a lot easier to get it working.
[10:44] <finalbeta> (Should I write a Spec about the Multiple language spell-checking, or can one of the accessibility teamers do it? If I do it it's likely to get ignored, like the other spec I wrote, heh)
[10:45] <krister> Hitsjunk could we keep intouch via mail about this and about that elinks bug thingy?
[10:46] <hittsjunk> sure. kenny@hittsjunk.net
[10:46] <heno> finalbeta: writing the spec is only part of it, then you need to make others aware of (as you are now doing)
[10:46] <frafu> heno: you asked before whether accessibility at the login was important: there was a thread in the accessibiliy forum where a user said it would be important to have onboard at the login screen on a tablet pc
[10:46] <heno> it should also be scheduled for the summit
[10:48] <heno> frafu: I remember. it's sort of a use case in the spec too
[10:48] <frafu> ok
[10:48] <heno> OK, shall we start to wrap up and continue detailed talks in #ubuntu-accessibility?
[10:48] <krister> Wonder if the auralux packages contained Swedish. As i understood it from the mail there were only a few languages, but i could be wrong.
[10:48] <heno> I think we've have a great meeting today!
[10:49] <heno> some new ideas and a new support team!
[10:49] <krister> Wow!
[10:50] <heno> and it's been nearly two hours :)
[10:50] <frafu> There is another thing I was wondering: why are you trying to add the accessibiliy to the normal livecd; why don't you make special cds? 
[10:50] <heno> not as long as some community council meetings of course
[10:50] <heno> frafu: for several reasons:
[10:50] <frafu> one for vi and one for mi
[10:50] <Joanie> I'm all for special cds if they provide more compelling access, but I see live CDs in places like CompUSA.  
[10:51] <Joanie> they should all be accessible
[10:51] <heno> yep.
[10:51] <hittsjunk> Special CD's always will lag.  One of the things I like about Ubuntu is they include accessibility in the main CD.
[10:51] <krister> Agreed Kenny!
[10:52] <heno> this way we get more exposure, more help from core developers, makes it easier to maintain, we don't lag several months behind
[10:52] <heno> we actually followed the separate approach first
[10:52] <krister> And we are on the cutting edge, which is very cool i think.
[10:52] <heno> but it did lag
[10:52] <hittsjunk> The difference shows.  I couldn't use Gnome  full time until I switched to Ubuntu.
[10:53] <heno> It really started to pick up momentum when we joined the main CD
[10:53] <krister> I couldn't use gnome at all under Sarge.
[10:53] <hittsjunk> Main stream Debian has to many problems that have been solved in Ubuntu.
[10:53] <heno> btw, you should all try Xubuntu as well
[10:53] <Joanie> screen reader support there?
[10:53] <heno> It's got Orca, festival etc.
[10:53] <Joanie> wow
[10:53] <Joanie> didn't know that
[10:53] <heno> and it's very light weight
[10:54] <heno> yeah, we've been working in the shadows :)
[10:54] <TheBadger> Same way to start accessibility?
[10:54] <heno> Not sure if the CD boot menu stuff will make it for edgy, but you can start it manually
[10:55] <heno> not all the XFCE apps have good access support either
[10:55] <heno> but we should work towards that
[10:55] <heno> see http://blog.omma.net/?p=18
[10:55] <krister> I can't boot my live cd, because there's something wrong in how Ubuntu sees my graphics card. It simply can't start in 24 bit mode.
[10:56] <heno> krister: you should be able to type in some alternative boot commands with F6 at the boot menu
[10:57] <krister> Dunno the alternative commands.:)
[10:57] <heno> the safe graphics mode option might work too
[10:58] <hittsjunk> There should be text files on the CD with the different possible boot commands.
[10:58] <krister> Didn't we try that, Badger?
[10:58] <heno> krister: I'll look it up for you
[10:58] <TheBadger> will tryI think so.
[10:59] <heno> krister: first try: boot CD, press down arrow once, then F5, etc
[10:59] <heno> that should start it in safe graphics mode
[10:59] <heno> (whatever that is exactly)
[11:00] <TheBadger> I think its vesa
[11:00] <krister> Is that the same as force-vesa or something like that, if so, i think it didn't work.
[11:00] <heno> ah, ok. I dunno
[11:00] <hittsjunk> Kryster, do you know the make and model of your graphics card?
[11:00] <heno> this is a good question for the wider community though :)
[11:01] <krister> I think theres something screwed up with the i810 driver, that's what i use... don't know though.
[11:01] <heno> lots of people will know the answer to this in #ubuntu and elsewhere
[11:02] <krister> Ok, i'll dig around.
[11:03] <hittsjunk> I was going to suggest you google using the chipset on the mother board and Ubuntu as your search.
[11:03] <krister> Will do.
[11:05] <heno> ok, I'm off to sleep :)
[11:06] <heno> Thanks all for joining!
[11:06] <krister> Sounds like a great idea.
[11:06] <Joanie> i've got to take off.  take care y'all
[11:06] <frafu> good night heno; I have to go to sleep to
[11:06] <krister> Kenny, still there?
[11:06] <hittsjunk> yes
[11:06] <frafu> bye
[11:07] <hittsjunk> I was about to move to #ubuntu-accessibility.
[11:07] <krister> Ok see ya there.