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astinusj #gentoo-security,#gentoo-infra12:35
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jikanterafter creating my gpg key, I got similar output as the tutorial online at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto, but I am still a bit confused about the output and which information I need to save.  Is my private key stored somewhere where I can retrieve it?12:40
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Hobbseemorning all12:44
Nafallohi Hobbsee :-)12:44
ajmitchmorning Hobbsee12:53
FujitsuLP notifies on build failures now, does it?12:53
ajmitchyou're up early ;)12:53
ajmitchFujitsu: as is evident by emails you may receive12:53
FujitsuI'm wondering why I got emails about builds that failed... about 2 months ago? Or has is decided to try to rebuild them?12:53
Hobbseeajmitch: i'm at uni on time :P12:54
ajmitchmass give-back12:54
ajmitchHobbsee: worrying12:54
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Hobbseeajmitch: indeed.12:54
FujitsuAha, thanks.12:54
LaserJockFujitsu: how's gcl/maxima12:54
FujitsuLaserJock, dholbach says he'll look at the Dapper fix once Edgy is released.12:55
FujitsuIn general though, I don't know.12:55
=== Fujitsu looks.
LaserJockFujitsu: grrr12:55
FujitsuSo we're stuck with `It doesn't work! Fix it now! This isn't good enough for a LTS release!' from all our loyal users.12:56
LaserJockhmm, well this is a bit silly12:57
FujitsuIt is a fairly nasty breakage in what could be a very important package to a lot of people, so it's understandable they're rather irritated.12:57
LaserJockI don't see why we need to wait 2-3 weeks for this12:58
LaserJockbut whatever :-)12:58
crimsunwell, sound will be broken for a huge number of people when Edgy releases. I'm not happy either, but if the release manager says it goes, then it goes.12:59
Fujitsucrimsun, what's wrong with it?01:00
crimsunhalf the HDA codecs are missing vital patches that weren't available til October01:00
ajmitchthat's unfortunate01:00
FujitsuI saw a patch by you a while ago which fixes my microphone, I believe.01:00
crimsunI'm having lots of fun supporting two releases simultaneously, and when Edgy+1 opens, three!01:01
FujitsuIsn't sound, you know... Fairly important?01:01
FujitsuYes, fun fun fun.01:01
crimsunwell, to many people, yes, quite critical. In the grand scheme of whether the machine boots, however, it's rather tertiary.01:02
LaserJockwell, I would hope at this stage in the game we are past the "Does it boot or not?" question, but yeah01:03
LaserJockI'm amazed at how fragile Ubuntu is at times01:03
ajmitchLaserJock: not necessarily01:03
ajmitchjust spend 5 minutes in the forums & you'll see01:03
Fujitsuajmitch, nooooo.01:04
crimsunmany of the problems are with newer hardware, and that's always an issue.01:04
crimsunchucking new kernels into the repo right up until release just to support newer hardware is madness01:04
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ajmitchI agree01:04
ajmitchcrimsun: isn't the sound problem mainly newer hardware?01:05
crimsunyep, HDA nearly exclusively01:05
ajmitchat least I haven't spotted issues with the hda codec with my laptop01:05
crimsunmostly Realtek and Sigmatel HDA codecs01:05
=== ajmitch checks his laptop
ajmitchsome realtek, I can't recall which now01:07
FujitsuMy Inspiron 630m (almost a year old now) still has no working microphone, so it's not just /new/ hardware.01:07
ajmitchCodec: Realtek ALC26001:08
astinusFujitsu: Aye, but I'd argue that in the grand scheme of things it goes;  Does the system boot? --> Can it be used day-to-day (Xorg, etc)? --> Does little things work (sound)? --> Does even littler things work (microphones)?01:08
ajmitchworks nicely thanks to crimsun :)01:08
crimsunFujitsu: it's new in terms of support.01:08
crimsun$ grep -nH 630 *01:08
crimsunpatch_sigmatel.c:595:     .config = STAC_REF }, /* Dell Inspiron 630m */01:08
Fujitsuastinus, true.01:08
Fujitsucrimsun, :O01:08
astinusFujitsu: Very little consolation, I agree, but there's only so many hours in the day :P01:08
Fujitsuastinus, but I saw the patch to fix the microphone on the kernel-team mailing list a couple of weeks back... So close.01:09
ajmitchkernel has to freeze earlier for good reasons01:10
FujitsuAt least, I presume it was the right patch. Almost identical hardware, same symptoms.01:10
astinusFujitsu: Awesome :)  I'm very thankful, my laptop with Intel HDA seems to 'just work' and its brand new... I've got a Samsung Q35 with a Core Duo 1.83GHz...01:10
astinus(Interestingly enough I always hit issues with new laptop + Gentoo, but no issues with same laptop + Ubuntu *grin*  Lord knows why that might be....)01:11
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CarlFKwhere can I post problems I have when I build spe.deb using the script at the bottom of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpdatingADeb01:57
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theCorethat's funny...02:35
theCoreI'm getting support request by email from people I don02:36
lophyte!seen superm102:36
theCoredon't know*02:36
ubotuI last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 2d 2h 18m 26s ago, quiting: "Quitting, send all complaints > /dev/null"02:36
zultheCore: that happens all the time02:39
theCorezul, how should I handle them?02:40
zultheCore: what i do is if they are bug reports ask them to open up in launchpad, if they are support answer them back :)02:41
theCoreI wonder how they got my email...02:43
theCoreoh, I get it they found my Jabber account, which uses the same address02:45
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theCoreI wonder if they send their email to many peoples. A bit like spammers, but instead of your money, they want support02:47
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rmjbhi, I have a question04:32
FujitsuHi rmjb.04:32
rmjbwhy do I get an error if I apt-get source a package then sudo pbuilder build it04:32
rmjbshouldn't source packages from the repos build without a problem?04:33
rmjbhi Fujitsu04:33
Fujitsurmjb, not always. Some of them break when we get newer versions of other packages, for example.04:33
FujitsuWhich package in particular?04:33
FujitsuThat hasn't been built on Edgy before, so it is quite possible for it to be broken.04:34
rmjbI'm actually trying to fix/upgrade it as my first package04:34
rmjbbut it's is giving me some problems04:35
rmjbthis is one for example:04:35
rmjbdh_installdocs 1.0.0.rc13/{CREDITS,KNOWN_BUGS,README,TODO}04:35
rmjbcp: cannot stat `1.0.0.rc13/{CREDITS,KNOWN_BUGS,README,TODO}': No such file or directory04:35
FujitsuOK, I'm building it here at the moment to see what its issues are...04:35
FujitsuA bashism.04:35
rmjbdh_installdocs was upgraded since dapper?04:35
FujitsuIn Edgy, we've changed over to using dash, rather than bash, as the default shell.04:35
rmjboh... so that's why04:36
rmjbneed to do this the long way then04:36
FujitsuThe {whatever,whatever2} etc. stuff is specifically for bash, doesn't work in dash.04:36
rmjbthanks Fujitsu!04:36
FujitsuYes, you'll have to do it manually.04:36
rmjbbeen trying to figure why it doesn't work since yesterday04:36
FujitsuNo problem.04:36
rmjbbtw, how'd you know it wasn't built on edgy yet?04:37
FujitsuStupid thing didn't copy...04:38
FujitsuIf you look there, you'll see that the version in Edgy is the same as in Dapper, so the binaries were migrated over.04:38
rmjbokay I see04:38
FujitsuIndeed, once that bashism is fixed, the package builds.04:40
rmjbyeah, I got another error when I did an upgrade though04:41
rmjbInstalling dmraid.8 in /usr/share/man/man804:41
rmjb/usr/bin/install: cannot create regular file `/usr/share/man/man8/dmraid.8'04:41
rmjbI don't know how that passes in the current version because I copied the same rules file over04:41
FujitsuCopy the entire debian/ over, there's other stuff there that is important....04:42
FujitsuSpecifically, the dirs file.04:42
rmjbyeah that's what I did04:42
FujitsuHrm, there isn't one in this case.04:42
FujitsuIs that when building the package?04:43
rmjbyes, the new upstream version, with the contents of the current version's debian directory04:44
Fujitsu(currently building the new version to see what I can get out of it)04:49
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rmjbone thing that's needed in the upgrade is changing the starting position of dmraid in rcS from S03 to S1104:56
rmjbI've done that in the rule, but update-rc.d does not reposition the script if it's there already04:57
rmjbis there a standard procedure to do this?04:57
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FujitsuAfternoon, LaserJock.05:10
LaserJockhi Fujitsu05:10
rmjbhey LaserJock05:10
LaserJockhi rmjb, sorry I haven't replied yet05:10
imbrandonhello all05:10
rmjbnp LaserJock05:11
FujitsuHi imbrandon.05:11
rmjbhey imbrandon05:11
=== Fujitsu runs off to find some lunch.
Fujitsu(I've been using KDE for almost 24 hours now, and I think I've eliminated the `ARGH! It's burning my eyes out!' sensation)05:11
rmjbkubuntu konvert?05:12
FujitsuNot really, just having a look at the `other side'.05:12
imbrandonFujitsu, hehe05:12
FujitsuIt is a bit blindingly bright to start with.05:12
imbrandonFujitsu, thats how it all starts ;)05:12
LaserJockrmjb: with respect to your question, if there is a binary package in the archive it just means it built at some time05:12
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LaserJockrmjb: sometimes dependencies have changes since the package was last built05:13
rmjbcool, Fujitsu ironed it out, he said the build error I was seeing was a bashism, since edgy symlinks /bin/sh to dash instead05:14
LaserJockah yeah05:14
rmjbany tips on moving the position on a start script? I have to move dmraid to after udev (which is at S03)05:22
rmjbcan I call update-rc.d within the rules?05:22
rmjbdirectly I mean, instead of through dh_installinit05:22
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imbrandonor convert it to an upstart job ;)05:25
rmjbI'm game for that, did Scott do a howto or guide on that?05:26
imbrandonno idea, i havent tried it yet, but upstart.ubuntu.com would be a good place to start05:27
rmjbcool, thanks imbrandon05:27
imbrandoni dont even know if its at a stage thats viable yet, but its a thought05:27
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LaserJockohhh, nifty Debconf6 DVDs05:47
LaserJockI must really be a geek when they only thing I burn to DVD is Debconf videos05:48
=== Hobbsee steals all the 'h' and 'e' 's and runs away with them
=== Fujitsu calls the police.
ajmitcho dar05:53
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ajmitchobbs as stoln my kys05:53
rmjbgoing to test my new (and first) dmraid package05:53
ajmitchAmaranth: what's with the mass reversions on the BerylOnEdgy page?05:53
imbrandonoh wow i dident know you could get debconf video downloads05:53
Amaranthajmitch: *hides*05:54
Hobbseeajmitch: :D05:54
Amaranthajmitch: Some stupidity with a guy from the forums.05:54
ajmitchAmaranth: a little disagreement? :)05:54
imbrandontheres a wiki for it? seems simple, enable composite in xorg.conf , start beryl05:54
imbrandondone ;)05:54
ajmitchimbrandon: plus install the various crackful packages05:55
imbrandonajmitch, hehe i just made my own with tonio05:55
Amaranthimbrandon: It guides you through installing drivers, turning things on in xorg.conf, adding beryl repos, installing it, and adding it to startup scripts.05:55
ajmitchimbrandon: beryl packages?05:55
imbrandonajmitch, yea05:55
ajmitchthey probably follow policy far far better than the current ones do then05:56
Amaranthajmitch: He wanted to have it include instructions for manually installing nvidia drivers from the original .run file, I said that was wrong because it breaks too easily.05:56
AmaranthThe current ones are a mess.05:56
imbrandoninstall 2 packages , enable composite in xorg.conf and start beryl , seems simple, no need for other steps05:56
AmaranthI've been meaning to sit down and make them not suck.05:56
ajmitchAmaranth: yes, DBO wanted me to look over them, then gave up on me when I couldn't do it quickly enough05:56
Amaranthimbrandon: There are some tweaks and such.05:57
Amaranthimbrandon: Just check it out: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BerylOnEdgy05:57
imbrandonajmitch, want the source for the packages me and tonio did/use ?05:57
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ajmitchimbrandon: I don't have time to care about it at the moment05:58
ajmitchI'm sure that sabdfl will have someone on it asap :P05:58
rmjbIT WORKED! yay!05:58
LaserJockhmm, maybe I can get AIGLX working on this laptop05:59
imbrandonajmitch, yea thats the main reason we did it was for edgy+1 ( had no idea about the crack on the forums )05:59
imbrandonLaserJock, do you have X working in edgy ?05:59
LaserJockfor some reason all the computers I work on have ATI graphics :(05:59
ajmitchimbrandon: I worry about the push for it to be the default WM05:59
LaserJockimbrandon: sure, but my problem as been ATI05:59
imbrandonajmitch, that would suck as its slow as piss, i have it installed but only start it to "show off"06:00
imbrandonLaserJock, if you have X in edgy working you have aiglx working06:00
imbrandonits built in06:00
LaserJockwell, but the ability to *use* it I mean06:00
ajmitchimbrandon: if I'm brave enough to install the beta nvidia drivers I *may* consider trying it06:01
imbrandonLaserJock, sure, just make sure you have 3d rendering enabled and add ...06:01
imbrandonSection "Extensions"06:01
imbrandon        Option "Composite" "Enable"06:01
imbrandonto xorg.conf, all done06:01
LaserJockimbrandon: but does it work with fglrx drivers?06:01
AmaranthLaserJock: No, you need XGL for that06:02
AmaranthIt's super easy for Intel users though, like imbrandon said.06:02
Amaranthalthough apparently you also want Option "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true"  in Device06:02
AmaranthI dunno, I only wrote the nvidia section of that guide06:02
ajmitchI should try beryl on the laptop I guess :)06:02
imbrandonwith aiglx it should be the same for all cards06:02
LaserJockI'd try it on my nvidia box but it's got dapper06:02
ajmitchsince it has an i915 chip06:02
imbrandonajmitch, with intell just do what i said06:03
LaserJockimbrandon: I heard it doesn't work for fglrx drivers06:03
imbrandonits super easy06:03
Fujitsuajmitch: Compiz runs OK, but it can be a little laggy at times with an i915.06:03
ajmitchimbrandon: I've run it before, thanks06:03
Fujitsu(haven't tried Beryl)06:03
imbrandonLaserJock, it does on my laptop with the "ati" drivers ( non binary )06:03
Fujitsufglrx in Edgy at the moment is stuffed, anyway.06:03
=== Amaranth hates /etc/rcS.d/S40networking
LaserJockimbrandon: right, but so far I haven't had any luck with the nonbinary drivers06:04
FujitsuWhat's wrong with it, Amaranth?06:04
AmaranthI'm wireless only, no need to try to get a DHCP lease on every device with a massive timeout :P06:04
imbrandonLaserJock, why ? X wont start ?06:04
LaserJockimbrandon: I have unsupported cards06:04
AmaranthI had like 1:48 boot time before I removed that, 0:35 boot time after.06:04
imbrandonAmaranth, just edit your /etc/networking/interfaces then and comment out the rest06:05
=== ajmitch wonders how chipsets like the i915 get on with regards to texture memory allocation
Amaranthwow that's what changed from dapper to edgy06:05
Amaranthi was wondering about that06:05
imbrandonno its the same here on dapper and edgy06:05
imbrandondunno what your thinking06:05
AmaranthIn dapper I just had lo in there06:06
ajmitchback in a few min06:06
AmaranthAnd I don't remember modifying it, I would have remember the long boot times.06:06
imbrandonsomthing was stuffed up then06:06
AmaranthIt was good though, I use NetworkManager to handle my wireless. :)06:06
imbrandonwell if network manager actualy worked i might think about using it06:07
AmaranthOh well, I'm just happy to see a 0:35 boot time. :D06:07
LaserJockoh cool, I am using "ati" on this lappy06:08
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LaserJockbrb, gonna see if this works :-)06:17
=== Fujitsu wonders if his LUKS-encrypted /home on LVM with USB key setup will actually work.
imbrandonFujitsu, hehe06:20
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LaserJockhmm, interesting06:21
LaserJockhaha, jiggly windows06:21
FujitsuHeheh, yeah.06:21
LaserJockthe cube is all right, doesn't seem as smooth as mine on OS X06:22
LaserJockbut still pretty cool06:23
=== ajmitch returns
LaserJockAlt-Tab is pretty nifty06:24
ajmitchI guess :)06:24
imbrandonLaserJock, got it working ?>06:25
FujitsuBrb, testing encryption magic.06:25
LaserJockimbrandon: yeah06:25
ajmitchimbrandon: how up-to-date are your beryl packages?06:25
imbrandonajmitch, about 1 week old06:26
imbrandonor so06:26
imbrandonshould be , let me check to make absolute sure06:26
LaserJockhow do you get it to do the expose type thing06:26
imbrandonajmitch, no 1.0 shouldent be a big deal to update them though06:27
FujitsuLaserJock: It was originally F12, not sure what it is nowadays.06:27
ajmitchimbrandon: maybe if the packages are better you should change the BerylOnEdgy page to point to them ;)06:28
ajmitchmaking sure that you don't annoy Amaranth too much :)06:28
imbrandonyea i was thinking the same thing06:28
Amaranthajmitch: haha06:28
Amaranthimbrandon: If you get some decent 0.1.1 packages in a repo somewhere I'd be more then happy to tell users to use them.06:29
Amaranthimbrandon: You might want to join #beryl-dev and poke someone though.06:29
ajmitchimbrandon: I'd be more willing to trust your packages, to be honest06:29
imbrandonAmaranth, yea i'll update them from 0.1 to 0.1.1 tonight06:29
ajmitchnot meaning to insult those in the community who have gone to the effort of packaging06:30
ajmitchbut last I looked, they were crap :)06:30
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Amaranthajmitch: I think they were made my someone in the debian mentors program thing06:30
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Amarantherr, by06:30
ajmitchAmaranth: figures06:30
imbrandonheh, one sec i'ma grab a soda and lok at it now, doing nothing atm anyhow06:30
crimsunI love how someone posted a link to his own Flash 9 debs in a flashplugin-nonfree bug report06:30
ajmitchthat's no guarantee of quality06:30
ajmitchcrimsun: it hurts06:31
Fujitsucrimsun: I know, it's really great.06:31
imbrandoncrimsun, ouch06:31
Amaranthajmitch: No, that makes me even more worried about their quality.06:31
ajmitchcrimsun: I frequently get to deal with backported/new crack for mono06:31
FujitsuHere are my debs. They're your problem now.06:31
ajmitchAmaranth: I tried to convince DBO to talk to the compiz maintainer for debian, but he didn't see the point06:31
AmaranthUh oh, we're going to get flamed again. :P06:32
ajmitchAmaranth: why? :)06:32
Amaranth"Ubuntu doesn't share the bling!"06:32
Amaranth"Hey man, quit bogarting the pipe", etc etc etc06:32
FujitsuErm, I take it beryl isn't working great :P06:33
AmaranthFujitsu: It has some serious design issues as admitted by the developers but apparently their emerald theme manager can now pull themes from SVN in the latest version....06:33
ajmitchFujitsu: it is wonderful! do not question the Glorious Revolution!06:34
ajmitchAmaranth: is there an ITP filed for beryl in debian yet?06:34
Amaranthajmitch: I believe so.06:34
ajmitchthen we won't bother pushing imbrandon's packages to debian then06:34
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AmaranthI say someone needs to bonk the beryl and compiz developers over the head a couple times and get them to just start over.06:35
=== Fujitsu runs off for real now... Hopefully dm-crypt won't explode in a giant fireball.
ajmitchAmaranth: oh, I see it - done by the guy who has the *wonderful* packaging in svn06:35
Amaranthajmitch: yeah, the guy in the mentors program06:35
ajmitchthe mentors program really is a loose term06:36
AmaranthMyFirstPackage and all that06:36
ajmitchit's a mailing list & irc channel06:36
imbrandoni'm in the mentors program, that means nothing other than they signed up for a "sponsor"06:36
AmaranthI dunno, he keeps talking about Debian Mentors. :P06:36
ajmitchusually no structured mentoring at all06:36
ajmitchAmaranth: yes, I heard that he's all official & all, whatever that may mean06:36
=== ajmitch looks for the current svn url
rmjbcoincidentally, I asked LaserJock to mentor me yesterday for MOTU06:37
Amaranthsvn co http://svn.beryl-project.org/trunk beryl06:38
ajmitchmy copy has URL: svn://metascape.afraid.org/svnroot/beryl06:38
ajmitchand I can't just do svn switch --relocate06:38
Amaranthyeah, you wanna know something really....odd...about that setup?06:38
ajmitchgo ahead & scare me06:38
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imbrandonhere is what i have at the moment , i'm updating them now to 0.1.1 http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27934/06:38
Amaranththe metascape one is apparently the main SVN and the one on beryl-project.org is a mirror06:38
Amaranththe metascape one runs on Quinn_Storm's personal desktop06:39
ajmitchAmaranth: so why can't I do svn up now? :)06:39
ajmitchI see..06:39
ajmitchso if it's a mirror, why do they have different UUIDs?06:39
AmaranthI have no idea.06:39
=== ajmitch cries
ajmitchget them to use bzr06:39
AmaranthBut they keep saying beryl-project.org's is a read-only mirror and that's not chaning.06:39
ajmitchthen they can fork to their heart's content06:39
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AmaranthThey're coming to Mountain View, persuade them. :)06:40
imbrandonajmitch / Amaranth are there any more packages on BerylOnEdgy than what i have http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27934/06:40
Lathiatmm montain view, if only it wasnt on the other side of the world06:40
ajmitchyay, a paid trip for bling in feisty06:40
LathiatLCA is expensive enough on the other side of the country :)06:40
Lathiatoh wow beryl-project.org has a website now06:41
ajmitchimbrandon: there's other crack06:41
Lathiatit used to be just forums06:41
Amaranthimbrandon: They have a 'beryl' metapackage and split beryl-plugins into beryl-plugins and beryl-plugins-data (something about a lintian warning about a large /usr/share)06:41
Amaranthand beryl-dbus, dunno what that is06:42
ajmitchimbrandon: there's also updated nvidia beta drivers from Amaranth (probably dodgy as hell :) )06:42
ajmitchand some libxorg-sched-yield-hack0 thing that worries me06:42
AmaranthI've recently been told that does more harm then good.06:42
ajmitchthat doesn't surprise me, given what it does06:42
AmaranthIt's only for nvidia while using AIGLX (which no sane person would do if they care about performance)06:42
ajmitchnvidia+aiglx is stupid06:43
Lathiatberyl seems to be *really* unstable06:43
Lathiatcompiz seemed to just break but it never crashed06:43
ajmitchLathiat: but it's great! beryl-by-default for feisty!06:43
Amaranthajmitch: It's not needed, nvidia provides the needed extension without aiglx06:43
ajmitchAmaranth: I know06:43
ajmitchAmaranth: but too many users don't06:43
Lathiatajmitch: woo yeh!06:43
whiprushdo you need to shut off the aiglx specifically if you're using the nvidia beta drivers? or does it just skip all that?06:43
AmaranthI've been meaning to remove that from the guide06:43
ajmitchhey whiprush!06:43
whiprushhi ajmitch!06:43
Amaranthwhiprush: Nope, it's off by default.06:43
whiprushajmitch: found a hotel06:44
ajmitchAmaranth: I thought it was turned on by default for awhile, at least06:44
ajmitchwhiprush: sweeet06:44
ajmitchwhere is it?06:44
imbrandonheya whiprush06:44
whiprushabout 5 minutes from the googleplex06:44
whiprushright off the interstate06:44
ajmitchwhiprush: I'm on the same flight as mpt & infinity, as you may have seen06:44
whiprushI will send you the info when I confirm06:44
ajmitchgreat :)06:44
whiprushajmitch: excellent.06:44
whiprushon the 4th?06:45
ajmitchso at least I'll have someone to talk to in the airport06:45
ajmitchwe're all flying to auckland from different places before going on NZ8 to SFO06:45
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AmaranthOh, another really scary thing. People in #beryl-dev keep asking me for advice because they say I have "project management experience". ;)06:46
=== imbrandon doubt anyone will be on the same flight as him
imbrandonAmaranth, hahaha06:46
ajmitchAmaranth: lucky you06:47
=== Amaranth has only run one project
AmaranthAnd I'm the only developer of that project.06:47
ajmitchI've only run one project, and noone uses that code yet!06:48
AmaranthWhat is that?06:49
rmjbhow long after I dput something will it show up on REVU?06:49
imbrandon~5 min06:49
rmjbIt got rejected... I'm supposed to ask you guys to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?06:51
ajmitchrmjb: if you're in the group on launchpad06:52
rmjbI added myself earlier today... or yesterday in my case06:52
LaserJockok, back to the land of reality06:54
LaserJockthat AIGLX+beryl stuff reminded me of Alice in Wonderland06:54
AmaranthOnce you set some same values for things it's pretty nice.06:56
AmaranthThe default are utter crack though.06:56
ajmitchthe defaults are for maximum bling effect06:56
ajmitchI'd rather have as little wobble as possible06:57
ajmitch& I don't really need cube spinning, raindrops on my desk, etc06:57
rmjbso after I upload something to REVU and you guys critique it and I fix and so on, is there any formal testing?06:58
LaserJockjust by the MOTU06:58
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LaserJockif we find it satisfactory to go into Universe we vote for it06:59
imbrandonoh wow this is really crackfull06:59
=== imbrandon groans
ajmitchimbrandon: hm?06:59
ajmitchdo tell06:59
imbrandonthe svn checkouts arent matching up06:59
ajmitchimbrandon: no kidding06:59
rmjbokay cool...06:59
=== rmjb has fingers crossed
ajmitchas I said, different UUIDs, they're not even the same repository06:59
ajmitchit's like someone has done a complete separate import07:00
imbrandonprobably, they probably dident know better07:00
=== imbrandon hands Quinn bzr
rmjbajmitch: good for the upload to REVU?07:00
ajmitchrmjb: go ahead07:01
ajmitchmake sure you upload to revu, not ubuntu07:01
ajmitchimbrandon: see ^^ several lines ;)07:01
imbrandonlooks up07:01
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rmjbthanks, it did go to ubuntu the last time07:03
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ajmitchcrimsun: how should I nicely reject bug 67666 ?07:06
UbugtuMalone bug 67666 in firefox "Tried to download a video from Google Video" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6766607:06
ajmitchI'm sure you must have a stock reply somewhere :)07:06
crimsun(doesn't actually crash here, however)07:07
ajmitchno, but it's a flash 9 issue07:07
ajmitchof course07:07
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imbrandonhehe yea plays here too07:07
imbrandonweird al07:08
LaserJockFujitsu: gotta love this thread title on the forums: "mathematica problem with XGL"07:08
imbrandonprobably more to do with the beta ff , or they have 1000 extentions loaded07:08
crimsunajmitch: a nice note regarding "Flash 9 being beta and completely unsupported in Ubuntu" is nice07:08
FujitsuLaserJock: yes, I noticed that... It's great!07:09
ajmitchI just don't live on the edge enough07:09
imbrandon... fluent in java script as well as klingon .... hahahahaha07:09
ajmitchI don't have beta nvidia drivers, beryl, or flash 907:09
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Fujitsuimbrandon: You hadn't seen that before?07:09
imbrandonno, this is hilarious07:09
Fujitsuimbrandon: That's what Weird Al Yankovic is good for! Hilarity! And White & Nerdy is particularly good.07:10
LaserJockajmitch: well, I've only got flash 9 because of that recipe site my wife *has* to go to :-)07:10
imbrandonand you tried beryl, welcome to the darkside LaserJock07:10
ajmitchLaserJock: next you'll be installing imbrandon's luna themes07:11
LaserJock*Darth Vader voice* Luke .... I am your composite manager07:12
imbrandonLaserJock, .... TheMuso .... i am .....07:13
imbrandonbad pun /me stops07:13
imbrandons/Luke/TheMuso, as i said bad joke07:13
FujitsuYou missed a trailing slash there, imbrandon!07:14
imbrandonomg your as bad as elkbuntu , she said the same thing yesterday, my answer is irc sed needs no closing slash07:14
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elkbuntuthat was longer ago than yesterday07:14
imbrandoni made the RFC yesterday for irc sed07:15
imbrandonerr yea a few days ago heh07:15
ajmitchimbrandon: is it on the standards track?07:15
FujitsuGuilty, I say.07:15
LaserJockajmitch: yeah, I tried KDE yesterday, beryl today, I have no idea what I'll do tomorrow ;-)07:15
ajmitchimbrandon: or is it just a draft at this stage?07:15
imbrandonajmitch, yea, RFC is in the mail07:15
ajmitchelkbuntu: always lurking around in the shadows...07:15
=== Fujitsu grumbles.
rmjbLaserJock: Vista tomorrow!07:16
=== ajmitch should boot up vista
LaserJockrmjb: oh please no, don't give me nightmares07:16
FujitsuThis LUKS cryptsetup stuff is annoying to set up on an existing installation.. Gotta move all the data elsewhere :'(07:16
elkbuntuajmitch, hush. you'll freak out the UDS attendees :07:16
ajmitchelkbuntu: like me?07:16
=== Fujitsu dreams of the day when it'll be supported in the installation process.
elkbuntuajmitch, well you cant freak yourself out. you already know.07:17
ajmitchFujitsu: for the desktop cd, not likely07:17
imbrandoni booted vista once .... http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/vista.jpg , long enough to take that shot, then formated07:17
ajmitchFujitsu: it's already supported in debian07:17
imbrandonin d-i yea, not the live though i doubt, would be really hard07:17
ajmitchimbrandon: oh man, I only got a 1.0 on the Windows Experience Index in vmware07:17
Fujitsuajmitch: Well, it's not in the Ubuntu alternate installer at the moment...07:17
ajmitchFujitsu: depends if kamion decides to de-simplify the alternate installer for it07:18
imbrandonajmitch, thats a 3400+ with a high end nvidia card and still only got  a 2.007:18
Fujitsuimbrandon, not too hard to do in Ubiquity, if they implement LVM and co. (which is meant to be happening in Feisty)07:18
ajmitchimbrandon: you need more RAM, perhaps :)07:18
imbrandonprobably it only has 768 shared with video07:18
ajmitchFujitsu: adding all the UI for setting it up makes it more complex07:18
ajmitchimbrandon: I gave the vista install 1.5GB in vmware07:18
FujitsuAsk for genuine Microsoft software!07:19
rmjbcool, my upload made it to REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=334607:19
LaserJockimbrandon: hmm, I expected more :/07:19
imbrandonLaserJock, from ?07:19
LaserJockI hadn't seen a screenshot before07:19
imbrandonahh hehe i dident, honestly it reminds me ALOT of kde now07:19
ajmitchLaserJock: there's nothing special07:19
imbrandononly kde was first07:20
ajmitchLaserJock: I've got a screenshot as well if you want it07:20
imbrandonajmitch, yea07:20
ajmitchI'll have to trim it down07:20
LaserJockI expected them to change the look07:20
ajmitchit's a fullscreen screenshot07:20
LaserJockthe menu just looks like XP+bling07:20
imbrandonit actualy works really diffrent, nested menus07:21
imbrandonkinda a pita really07:21
ajmitchLaserJock: sorry, the screenshot I've got only has the login screen07:21
imbrandonlike the spinx menu07:21
ajmitchfullscreen == 2880x1200 here07:21
ajmitchso it's a large png :)07:21
LaserJockwell, I'll probably not be getting Vista07:21
imbrandoni'll be picking up osx 10.5 but not vista07:22
LaserJocknext computer I'll buy will have OS X or Ubuntu on it :-)07:22
FujitsuGuys, you can't deny that Vista is worth the $600! It's got a new version of Solitaire!07:22
LaserJockFujitsu: hmm, tempting07:22
FujitsuAnd Inkball!07:22
imbrandonand chess titans07:23
ajmitchand it has better licensing!07:23
LaserJockif Ubuntu doesn't come up with an equally cool Solitaire I might be forced to move back07:23
rmjbhey LaserJock, if you get a chance, can you critique my upload to REVU?07:23
LaserJockrmjb: I don't quite get the versioning07:25
LaserJockI think maybe it needs to be 1.0.0.rc13-0ubuntu107:25
LaserJockah, that looks better07:26
ajmitchdon't break things when 1.0.0 comes out07:26
FujitsuWhat ajmitch said, rather than what my comment on REVU said about a minute ago.07:26
ajmitchif you want to get this into edgy, it'd need a UVF exception07:26
rmjbthe rc is from upstream, still needs a ~ instead of a - ?07:26
ajmitchupstream can play silly with version numbers, but we can't07:27
imbrandonyes so when 1.0 proper comes out it will upgrade07:27
imbrandonother wise 1.0.0.rc13 > 1.0.0 but 1.0.0~rc13 < 1.0.007:27
imbrandonrmjb, ^07:27
rmjbi c07:28
ajmitchimbrandon: got 0.1.1 whipped into shape? :)07:28
imbrandonajmitch, bah i might have to just do a fresh backage using the /debian dir07:29
ajmitchimbrandon: please do07:29
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LaserJockimbrandon: you were  using an ubuntu dir? :-)07:35
ajmitchimbrandon: fixed them yet? ;)07:36
LaserJockare we there yet?07:36
ajmitchI'm losing faith in you...07:36
imbrandonzomg dir irl kthx bye .... heh07:36
imbrandonno i'm trying to find out the REAL svn atm07:36
LaserJockcore-dev,  core-shmev07:36
imbrandonthe svn i was using isnt there anymore07:37
ajmitchLaserJock: the users demand packages!07:37
ajmitchimbrandon: http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Compile/Sources07:37
ajmitchthat's the broken one07:37
rmjbwhen you guys said "get this into edgy" you mean even after it's released? will the freeze be lifted after release or it stays?07:38
imbrandonyea but it isnt matching my old source, so i'm just redoing it07:38
ajmitchrmjb: not after release07:39
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=== LaserJock runs
rmjbwell dmraid is broken for edgy, this package fixes it (hopefully) so I hope it gets in some time07:39
imbrandonoh snap whats this bdoc crap now, are they trying to make a whole DE ?07:39
ajmitchimbrandon: sure, why not?07:40
=== Hobbsee attacks LaserJock with her long pointy stick of DOOM!
LaserJock"Run away!"07:41
LaserJockimbrandon: is that a beryl thing?07:41
imbrandonyea i'm sorting it out again07:41
imbrandongive me an hour or so i'll have something to poke at07:41
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rmjbokay, new versioning of dmraid is in REVU...07:44
imbrandonoh wow , this is getting nuts, time to make one big debian package to generate all these07:44
imbrandonotherwise versioning will be hell07:44
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ajmitchhey raphink07:45
rmjbcrap, lintian gave an error07:45
ajmitchimbrandon: can't you use the tarballs instead of svn?07:45
ajmitchor do they not do tarballs?07:45
imbrandoni dont think there is tarball, leaste not last i looked07:46
=== imbrandon looks
ajmitchso they release, but don't release tarballs07:46
ajmitchhow useful07:46
raphinkhi ajmitch07:46
ajmitchimbrandon: why do you need it as 1 source package?07:47
imbrandonwell i dont need to, but if they are all released at the same time it just makes sense really07:48
imbrandoni was thinking kinda like mythplugins07:49
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rmjbajmitch: I put the version on dmraid as 1.0.0~rc13-0ubuntu1 but lintian complained... is this why the current version is 0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9-2ubuntu1?07:49
=== minghua [n=minghua@ppp-70-247-197-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
ajmitchbecause it didn't use to be supported07:49
ajmitchbut it is supported in debian & ubuntu now (~ in versions)07:50
imbrandone.g. ignore lintian on that error07:50
LaserJockwell, what about keeping with the current upstream versioning?07:50
ajmitchyou mean 0.9.9+1.0.0, etc?07:51
ajmitchit's an ugly workaround that ~ solves07:51
LaserJockbut if debian's got 0.9.9+1.0.0 going should we diverge from that07:52
rmjbdebian doesn't have rc13... which is needed to fix bug #5424607:53
UbugtuMalone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5424607:53
imbrandonif the current version is 0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9 and we're updating to rc13 then your right07:53
rmjbokay, reversion then...07:54
=== ajmitch is underwhelmed by #beryl-dev
ajmitchAmaranth: is it always like this?07:56
Amaranthajmitch: When Quinn is around it seems to be more hard development discussions07:57
Amaranthotherwise, yeah07:57
ajmitchah, the future of feisty07:57
imbrandonajmitch, yea i was kinda of the same thinking07:57
=== ajmitch sobs
LaserJocksurely beryl isn't the future of Feisty07:57
ajmitchLaserJock: of course it is07:58
ajmitchsabdfl wants it07:58
imbrandonthere is a spec for bery-by-default07:58
LaserJockwell fine07:58
imbrandoni really dont think it will fly just yet07:58
LaserJockwhat I'm saying is Feisty isn't the *only* thing in Fiesty07:58
ajmitchLaserJock: no, but it's a rather visible thing07:59
LaserJockas long as it has a switch to turn it off I'll be ok07:59
AmaranthI guess that means we have 4 months to rewrite it from scratch.08:00
AmaranthNone of these guys really knows how to run a project like this.08:00
imbrandonan easy way to turn it "on" would be better imho than default08:00
LaserJockajmitch: is zope installed by default in *buntu ?08:00
ajmitchLaserJock: of course not08:00
LaserJockimbrandon: +108:00
ajmitchhow many people do you know of that would ever need it?08:01
LaserJockajmitch: but it is in main08:01
ajmitchzope3 is in main08:01
LaserJockI was confused by that08:01
LaserJockI didn't think it was08:01
ajmitchzope2.9 is in universe08:01
ajmitchthey have quite different APIs08:01
ajmitchmost stuff for 2.x won't run on 3.x without porting08:01
LaserJockso it's in main, just not installed08:01
ajmitchlike apache is in main, but not installed08:02
ajmitchor any other daemon08:02
whiprushsurely we all just get mjg59 stone hammered for most of the week and he'll fix the beryl problems.08:03
ajmitchwhiprush: surely it'll take a lot more than that08:03
whiprushA man can dream.08:03
LaserJockneato, my first blog spam :/08:03
ajmitchLaserJock: yay08:04
Lathiatevery time i tell someone how the reason i still use livejournal is because i never get comment spam etc08:04
Lathiatthe next day i get one08:04
Lathiat3 of 3 on that08:04
Lathiatand thats the only 3 times i've ever got a comment spam08:04
LaserJockI got a homeloans offer in spanish08:05
ajmitchLaserJock: I see the zope question came up in #edubuntu08:06
ajmitchthe most popular CMS for zope (plone) is also only in universe now08:06
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LaserJockwas plone in Main before?08:06
ajmitchzope is slow to support newer python versions08:06
ajmitchit was for awhile in breezy, not sure about dapper08:07
Lathiatuniverse in dapper08:07
ajmitchprobably demoted in dapper or breezy due to python2.308:07
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ajmitchI wonder how well my laptop will play with projectors now08:08
ajmitchusing the modesetting branch for the i810 driver08:08
imbrandonAmaranth, ping08:08
Amaranthimbrandon: pong08:08
whiprushajmitch: wait until you see keithp's X demo08:08
whiprushit's /awesome/08:09
ajmitchwhiprush: yeah, I'd love to see stuff that windows has had for 10+ years :)08:09
imbrandonAmaranth, make sure there isnt 0.1.1 tarballs please before i upload these ( i'm not speaking in there unless i have to )08:09
=== ajmitch turns off cynic mode
Amaranthimbrandon: isn't 0.1.1 tarballs, what?08:09
whiprushajmitch: 1995 has left the building!08:09
ajmitchAmaranth: beryl crack08:09
Amaranthwhiprush: input/display hotplug?08:09
Amaranthajmitch: yeah, i know, i just don't understand what he means :P08:10
ajmitchwhiprush: we have some good catchup to do08:10
whiprushI believe DanielS is doing the input stuff08:10
whiprushajmitch: yeah.08:10
Amaranthxrandr++ or something08:10
imbrandone.g if they make tarballs or if there is only svn08:10
ajmitchAmaranth: are there beryl 0.1.1 tarballs released?08:10
Burgundaviawhiprush: yes, daniels is doing the input stuff08:10
ajmitchhey Burgundavia08:10
AmaranthI think they just create a tag for a release then make packages08:10
Burgundaviahey ajmitch08:10
ajmitchAmaranth: beat them round, please08:11
BurgundaviaAmaranth: xrandr was merged into trunk, no?08:11
Amaranthand include stuff in the packages that isn't in the repo.... &%*#08:11
imbrandonwonderfull *rolls eyes*08:11
AmaranthWell, I think for 0.1 it was just debian/changelog things08:11
AmaranthIn SVN it was 0.1.0-1, in the packages it was 0.1.0-0ubuntu108:12
Amaranthfun crap like that08:12
ajmitchimbrandon: put on the schedule for MV - "how to be a reponsible upstream"08:12
imbrandonWHAT !?!08:12
imbrandonajmitch, no doubt08:12
Amaranthajmitch: Like I said, none of them has any idea how to run a project like this.08:12
imbrandonthey made a fork of a project and have no idea how to make a project !?!08:13
AmaranthAnd, the worst part about beryl is something it shares with compiz: the frame-limiter stuff at the core of the entire system is horribly buggy08:13
ajmitchimbrandon: you expect any less?08:13
imbrandonman i'm starting to see why ajmitch has the attitude he has , sad part is i'm adapting it08:13
ajmitchimbrandon: sorry for it to rub off08:13
imbrandonajmitch, dont be, its warented it seems08:13
=== ajmitch listens to some soothing classical music
AmaranthNeither one of these projects is even close to making a sane default window manager.08:14
Burgundaviayou seen Marks other crack project for Fiesty?08:14
AmaranthAlthough Redhat seems to be funding some people to work on compiz now so I have some hope for it.08:14
ajmitchBurgundavia: which one?08:14
ajmitchoh that's been on there for awhile08:14
AmaranthBeryl is just the toy I use until the real solution comes along. :)08:14
ajmitchat least a year or so08:14
imbrandonBurgundavia, yea i sat in on the voip for that one in edgy paris08:14
Burgundaviaajmitch: it has been bumped to high08:14
Burgundaviaimbrandon: and?08:14
imbrandonBurgundavia, its really not as bad as it sounds iirc08:15
AmaranthDoesn't Firefox 2 actually basically copy GTK+'s tab style?08:15
BurgundaviaAmaranth: yes08:15
Burgundaviaimbrandon: FF 1.508:15
AmaranthAnd the spec is to make them all work like Firefox 1.5?08:15
Burgundaviahas crap trab control08:15
Burgundaviayes, but I think the spec is odl08:15
ajmitchHobbsee: going to lurk in there, are you? :)08:15
Hobbseeajmitch: for a while08:16
ajmitchso how unhappy will they be if imbrandon uploads packages to feisty right before MV? ;)08:16
imbrandonheheh /me plans to08:16
Amaranth"This Week In Features: Non-GPL repo added to emerald-themer"08:16
ajmitchimbrandon: see how much trouble you get in08:17
ajmitchAmaranth: classic08:17
imbrandonAmaranth, wow08:17
BurgundaviaAmaranth: umm...08:17
imbrandonwhom from beryl is comming to mv ?08:17
LaserJockwhat does that mean?08:17
ajmitchimbrandon: quinn storm at least08:17
ajmitchI don't know who else08:17
imbrandonLaserJock, it means they are using windows copyrighted images and plan to host them internationaly08:18
elkbuntuDBO will be there too08:18
AmaranthWow, cracktastic, they have a new animation thingy that sets your window on fire and burns it out of existence when you close it.08:18
Lathiatthats awesome08:18
Lathiatwell it will be the first 3 times you do it08:18
imbrandon[00:55]  <cyberorg> themes would be free licence, but they my infringe copyright laws of some countires08:18
imbrandon[00:56]  <shawn_home> copying the look exactly? even if its not the original file?08:18
imbrandon[00:56]  <cyberorg> as we are not lawyers we dont know, so all the themes that fall under 'grey' catagory would be hosted on server in norway08:18
imbrandon[00:57]  <cyberorg> whoever wants them can download them08:18
BurgundaviaI love how the foucus is totally on features08:19
Lathiatyeh thats quite obviouus08:19
Lathiati tried beryl08:19
ajmitchBurgundavia: but they have the disclaimer there that 90% of it is bugfixes, you know08:19
Lathiatit crashed every couple minutes08:19
Burgundaviaajmitch: you fracking serious?08:19
imbrandonwishlist bugs for new features08:19
Lathiatcompiz OTOH seemed to work ok08:19
ajmitchBurgundavia: you know me08:19
Lathiatsome of the plugins went a bit nuts08:19
Lathiatbut generally "worked"08:19
Burgundaviaajmitch: yes08:19
elkbuntuBurgundavia, theres a 90% chance he could be08:19
Burgundaviaelkbuntu: very likely08:20
imbrandonwishlist bugs for new features are considered bugfixes ?!?08:20
rmjbhey LaserJock can you take another look at the dmraid in revu if you can?08:20
imbrandonwow this is getting better by the minute08:20
LaserJockrmjb: not sure if I can tonight, but I'll put it on my todo list ;-)08:20
AmaranthHonestly I think we should focus on compiz.08:21
Burgundaviaso, how do we redirect that beryl to shipping default compzi?08:21
AmaranthTweak it, tune it, make it shine, ship it.08:21
Burgundaviathat is where everybody else is going08:21
ajmitchAmaranth: so do I, but they've already invited DBO & quinn storm along...08:21
ajmitchBurgundavia: convince mark08:21
imbrandonthe autogen.sh looks for actual package dependancys instead of just making a configure script08:21
whiprushwe vote you Corey.08:21
=== imbrandon dies irl
Burgundaviathe other thing todo is to drown the system in bug reports if we do ship beryl by default08:21
Amaranthimbrandon: Holy. Shit.08:21
ajmitchit'd be harder to convince him at UDS with beryl people there in the room08:21
Burgundaviawhiprush: I am no more successful than others08:22
ajmitchimbrandon: it gets better by the minute08:22
imbrandonAmaranth, my thoughts exactly08:22
Burgundaviaimbrandon:, Amaranth: are you guys documenting every single problem int eh package?08:22
Burgundaviawe are going to need a huge portfolio of problems to stop Mark08:22
AmaranthBurgundavia: I'm thinking we should.08:22
ajmitchimbrandon: which autogen.sh?08:22
whiprushremember when all we had to worry about was naked people?08:22
imbrandonajmitch, harder, i would think it would be easier, easier to see the BS irl than on IRC or blogs08:23
=== Lathiat laughs at whiprush
imbrandonajmitch, from svn08:23
Lathiatwhatever happened to ubuntu-calendar08:23
AmaranthI'll slap it all up on the beryl forums, get flamed to death for trying to point out problems, etc. :P08:23
Lathiatit was the near-perfect excuse to have mostly naked people on your desktop08:23
Lathiat"well it just comes with my distro"08:23
ajmitchAmaranth: packaging issues, or upstream source issues?08:23
ajmitchimbrandon: which one, there are several08:23
Burgundaviaajmitch: the old naked people ones08:23
=== Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-motu
imbrandonberyl-core one was where i started08:24
BurgundaviaAmaranth: better place is that spec08:24
Amaranthajmitch: upstream source and packaging08:24
ajmitchimbrandon: beryl-core's autogen.sh looks sane08:24
Amaranthajmitch: and general project management08:24
ajmitchimbrandon: it just does the standard autofoo & runs configure08:24
ajmitchmany autogen.sh scripts do that08:24
ajmitchAmaranth: will you be at UDS to fight alongside us?08:24
Amaranthajmitch: Sadly, no.08:25
Amaranthmy sponsorship was declined08:25
LaserJockI'll be there, but I won't be much help08:25
LaserJockyeah, that stinks08:25
ajmitchso we have to document all this crack08:25
=== Amaranth has been involved in the beryl world since day 1
=== ajmitch wonders what DBO does
imbrandonAmaranth, its all your fault ( sarcasim )08:25
BurgundaviaAmaranth: you were declined, yet beryl is so "critical" and you wrote willow-ng?08:26
ajmitchAmaranth: and you still stick in there?08:26
AmaranthBurgundavia: bling outweighs all :P08:26
ajmitchdon't we know it08:26
BurgundaviaAmaranth: bling is fucking useless08:26
imbrandonbling is nice when it works and is stable08:26
ajmitchBurgundavia: got any ideas for extra bling for my n-a code?08:26
Burgundaviaajmitch: working08:26
ChaosFani/wg 3408:27
Burgundaviathat is the only kind of bling that gets me off08:27
ajmitchBurgundavia: yeah, having the code working is a bonus08:27
AmaranthI was actually pretty surprised I got declined seeing how I'm probably closer then most of the people that were asking for sponsorship and my SoC work and such.08:27
ajmitchbut beryl manages fine without that08:27
Burgundaviathe kind of get when it takes one click to just make it work08:27
BurgundaviaAmaranth: what do tickets cost?08:27
ajmitchI can do it in maybe 3-4 clicks08:27
ajmitchnot 1 at the moment08:27
AmaranthI dunno, I think it was $300 USD round trip08:27
ajmitchsince it doesn't autodetect the world08:27
ajmitchwasabi has had some useful ideas for it08:28
ajmitchmaybe I can sit down with mpt in the airport & we can hack up some nice UI :)08:28
rmjbI'm looking for another reviewer for dmraid in revu, if any motu can take a look and email me that'd be great08:29
rmjbg'night all, time for sleep08:29
Burgundaviaajmitch: UI for beryl or for n-a?08:30
ajmitchfor n-a code, of course08:30
ajmitchuseful stuff08:30
=== gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-motu
ajmitchI'm not going to waste my time working on beryl08:30
ajmitchLaserJock: having decent integration will sell a lot better in the business world than wobbly windows08:31
LaserJockheck yeah08:31
imbrandonajmitch, +108:31
=== LaserJock imagines wobbly authentication
imbrandonfuzzy logic auth with wobbly windows for user-centric web2.0 intergration ?08:32
ajmitchfuzzy logic is such an old buzzword08:32
=== LaserJock throws up
LaserJockit should have nanotechnology in there though08:33
imbrandonajmitch, i guess i'm stuck in the 90's on buzzwords08:33
ajmitchLaserJock: grid computing!08:33
LaserJockI love throwing in the buzz words for grant proposals08:33
imbrandonnano grid computers that generate ajax xml code on the fly for the community webspace ?08:34
LaserJockchemical and biological threat agent detection via nanosensors works pretty well for me :-)08:34
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=== Amaranth beats his broken internet
LaserJockwobbly internet, it's all the rage08:36
=== Lathiat laughs
AmaranthHey, anyone going to Mountain View got some space on the floor of their hotel room available? :)08:41
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imbrandonajmitch, did you finaly get a hotel ?08:45
ajmitchAmaranth: wish I could say yes - I think there'll already be 3 in the room I'm in08:45
imbrandonAmaranth, i wouldent mind but i dunno whom i'm with08:46
ajmitchimbrandon: yeah, I think so08:46
ajmitchwe'll see how good it is08:46
imbrandoni guess it wont be decided till we get there08:46
imbrandoni dunno for sure tbh08:46
AmaranthUnless you want to be more than 10mi away all the hotels are either expensive or bad looking08:47
=== ajmitch will probably be in a bad-looking hotel then
LaserJockfor Paris they sent room assignments like a week ahead08:47
AmaranthThis is just going by pictures08:47
=== imbrandon looks at the name of the hotel
ajmitchimbrandon: the one you're at is 10 miles away :)08:48
imbrandonseems to be the one i'm at08:48
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LaserJockyeah, I can't believe it is so far away08:49
LaserJockalthough that area is mostly residential08:50
Amaranth4.93 mi08:50
Amaranthaccording to expedia08:50
ajmitchwhiprush: what was the hotel you found?08:50
Amaranth$102.47/night for 1 person :P08:50
Amaranthand they room "package" is called "WiFi King Room", that worries me for some reason08:51
Amaranththeir own website says $69/night for that room08:53
LaserJockwell, keep in mind that all of Mountain View has wifi ;-)08:53
Amaranthno doubt08:53
ajmitchexcept the hotel you're in08:53
ajmitchwhich is well outside the MV coverage area08:53
Amaranthhow is that?08:54
imbrandondont say that08:54
Amaranthit's 5 miles away from google08:54
ajmitchthe wild palms hotel is in sunnyvale, not MV08:54
Amaranthoh, ouch08:54
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LaserJockbut if you stay in MV it's free internet, wahoo08:55
imbrandonbut in the evenings at the room no internet ? that gonna bite08:56
LaserJockwhy no internet?08:56
LaserJockdoes it say that?08:57
imbrandonsunnyvale != MV08:57
LaserJocksure, but the hotel probably has internet08:57
imbrandonit says there internet in the business center ( e.g a room with 3 computers ) says nothing about in room access or wifi08:57
ajmitchsabdfl might sort out something08:59
LaserJockeven Paris had internet08:59
Amaranththe room itself is advertised as "WiFi King"08:59
Amaranthso it'd better have wifi :P08:59
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LaserJockAmaranth: no that short for Wide Filters, for the coffee pot ;-)09:00
imbrandonahh well i guess it does say : Deluxe guestrooms feature all of the above and high speed Internet access09:01
ajmitchbut at what cost?09:01
imbrandonright, thats what i was thinking09:01
ajmitchI suppose it's not NZ09:01
ajmitchso it won't be horrendously expensive09:01
LaserJockin Paris it was something like $15/night09:02
LaserJockbut we got it for free09:02
LaserJockI'm not sure if Mark paid for it or what09:03
imbrandonjust got included with the group discount09:04
imbrandoni'm sure09:04
ajmitchE: libvirt_0.1.8-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty09:05
ajmitchwe'll need to update lintian soon09:05
imbrandonyea not 3/4 the way through the cycle like edgy09:05
imbrandon( on tiber )09:06
=== ajmitch waits for package to build again
LaserJocktiber still does it for edgy doesn't it?09:06
imbrandonLaserJock, probably09:07
imbrandonhavent checked in a while09:07
LaserJockwe just got to Dapper09:07
ajmitchso who plans to upgrade to feisty as soon as it opens & ride out the syncs?09:07
imbrandoni'll try it on one computer, always do09:08
LaserJockI always say no, but that only lasts for a while09:08
imbrandonjust not a prodution box09:08
LaserJockI was planning on skipping edgy09:08
LaserJockbut well, it's hard to test things if you don't09:08
AmaranthI tend to switch as soon as the build chain stuff gets somewhat settle (new libc, gcc, etc)09:10
minghuaIf I get my laptop set up, I'll follow feisty09:10
imbrandoni dunno if my laptop will be able to follow feisty, theres a spec to drop ppc support :(09:11
=== imbrandon dosent see it happening though , not till feisty+1
LaserJockyeah, that would be a little harsh09:12
LaserJockppc has been gone less then a year09:12
LaserJockfrom Apple09:13
imbrandonyea i see it happening , just not /this/ round09:13
=== Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-motu
imbrandonunless someone else like ibm pumps out desktop ppc machines09:13
imbrandonnot just servers09:13
Amaranthi can't see an "enterprise" distro that offers a server version dropping ppc ever09:14
AmaranthIBM makes some kickass POWER5 servers, no?09:14
imbrandonbut thats not gonna happen, we'll drop ppc in feisty+1 and pickup cell in feisty+209:14
imbrandonAmaranth, yea the server deritive, i'm talking ubuntu09:14
imbrandonthe desktop distro09:14
LaserJockimbrandon: we have a server version though09:15
LaserJockalso sparc09:15
imbrandonLaserJock, yea but its a derivative just like kubuntu, like edubuntu chooses not to make a livecd, deritives can do as they wish09:15
imbrandonkubuntu /could/ go dvd only etc09:15
imbrandon( not that it will )09:15
imbrandonubuntu-server will keep ppc becouse of ibm09:16
imbrandonbut there is no desktop ppc's anymore09:16
LaserJockyeah, but you can't just remove ppc support from the archives if ubuntu-server still uses it09:16
LaserJockyou can't separate desktop and server in the repos very well09:16
imbrandonLaserJock, right, but canonical dosent have to support it09:16
imbrandonkinda like hppa and sparc build09:17
LaserJockwho cares about canonical :-)09:17
imbrandoni'm not saying it would get droped from the repos09:17
LaserJockI can't imagine Ubuntu dropping ppc from the archives any time in the near future09:17
imbrandonbut it could very well move to unsupported09:18
ajmitchit would just get demoted to ports status09:18
imbrandonlike sparc and hppa09:18
LaserJockah well, that makes sense09:18
ajmitchlike ia64, etc09:18
Burgundaviayou know, https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/bullet-proof-x and https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/beryl-by-default are mutually exclusive states09:18
imbrandonright exactly09:18
ajmitchimbrandon: sparc is official for the server09:18
imbrandonajmitch, ^09:18
LaserJockI don't really think of supported as == Canonical support09:18
LaserJockI think of it as Ubuntu support09:18
imbrandonajmitch, yea and ppc would likely stay offical on the server also but not on the desktop09:18
Lathiathrm mark regd the beryl by default spec09:19
=== dexem [n=dani@131.Red-80-35-41.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
ajmitchBurgundavia: not necessarily09:19
Lathiati see what all the fuss is about09:19
ajmitchLathiat: exactly09:19
imbrandonLathiat, yea09:19
ajmitchBurgundavia: one is for the X server to always come up09:19
imbrandonso basicly all the devs will have to show him why not09:19
FujitsuBeryl... by default!?09:19
LaserJockwhy don't we just make Mark be the assignee :-)09:19
FujitsuErm, this is one thing that nobody is going to agree with Mark on...09:19
ajmitchFujitsu: yes, we've been lamenting that for hours now09:19
FujitsuI didn't know it was him that registered that spec.09:20
imbrandonFujitsu, you missed about 3 hours of convo09:20
FujitsuI presumed it was just some random person who walked out of nowhere.09:20
ajmitchFujitsu: if it were someone else, then it wouldn't matter nearly as much09:20
FujitsuOf course!09:20
ajmitchwe could just laugh them off09:20
ajmitchin a nice, CoC-compliant way09:20
Lathiati mean in an ideal world thatd be great09:20
imbrandonLaserJock, i mean more it move to the ia64 or hppa status , not "removed" from the repos09:20
Fujitsu(and I may have taken ages about it, but I did finally get my encrypted /home/fujitsu going)09:20
Lathiatbut i dont see beryl anywhere near default-making :\09:20
LaserJockimbrandon: I could see that09:20
Fujitsuimbrandon, hppa never actually appeared in the Edgy repos, so that's not really a good example.09:21
FujitsuLathiat: Sure it is. It'll make Ubuntu more stable than ever!09:21
LaserJocklike how 2 negatives make a positive :-)09:22
imbrandonBurgundavia, you mean beryl isnt bullet-proof ?!?09:22
Burgundaviaimbrandon: like butch cassidy and the sundance kid09:23
ajmitchimbrandon: now now, you're sounding as bitter as I do09:23
=== Fujitsu watches sabdfl put Burgundavia to trial for treason.
imbrandonajmitch, hehe09:23
=== LaserJock hands imbrandon a dictionary
=== Kagou [n=Kagou@] has joined #ubuntu-motu
imbrandonFujitsu, you have anything you need off horatio, i think i'm going to pull it down for ~24 hours for some network rearraging09:23
=== ajmitch recompiles libvirt for the Nth time
Fujitsuimbrandon: I've not been using it much lately (school stuff is taking priority), and I don't need anything off it.09:24
Fujitsuajmitch: whatchya doing with it?09:24
Fujitsu(and who is the `We' Mark refers to in that spec? I don't see anybody else official clamouring for it.)09:24
ajmitchFujitsu: creating a package09:24
BurgundaviaFujitsu: royal09:24
FujitsuBurgundavia, probably.09:25
imbrandonspam subject of the day: "Beliefnet: Motivation from Mr. T"09:27
Burgundaviaimbrandon: rocking09:27
ajmitchsilly me, that's why it's not calling dh_pycentral09:28
ajmitchno distutils magic09:28
=== ajmitch rebuilds
LaserJockimbrandon: I pity the fool that uses Mr. T for spam ;-)09:29
imbrandoni want a new mac book pro, i think i'm gonna sell my lappy after MTV and get a new one09:30
imbrandonif possible09:30
ajmitchimbrandon: buy me a laptop too, will you?09:30
LaserJockI'd be stuck with a mac book09:30
LaserJockI'm no pro :(09:30
imbrandonhehe well even a mac book, something faster than 1.5ghz09:31
imbrandonand a tad more ram09:31
imbrandonand i'd be happy09:31
=== ajmitch doesn't *need* a new laptop
ajmitchbut a new one would be nice :)09:31
LaserJockI need one09:31
LaserJockmy wife is going to want this one back one of these days09:32
=== dholbach [n=daniel@i577B3122.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu
dholbachgood morning09:33
ajmitchhey dholbach09:33
imbrandonheya dholbach09:33
LaserJockhi dholbach09:34
LaserJockimbrandon: I just realized, you really should be in bed09:34
imbrandonheh not for another few hours09:35
dholbachhi ajmitch, imbrandon, LaserJock - how's it going?09:35
ajmitchgood, how are you?09:35
=== Gervystar [n=alessand@host52-173-static.120-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu
LaserJockdholbach: gut, und du?09:36
dholbachLaserJock: haha - I'm fine... just need to wake up 100% :)09:40
=== godmachine [n=godmachi@h6.164.140.67.ip.alltel.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
FujitsuLathiat: it is GREAT!09:51
imbrandon[02:49]  <Administrator> 2.6.18 is already out, when will this be uploaded to edgy?09:51
imbrandon[02:49]  <fabbione> edgy is about to be released in 4 days.. there will be no .1809:51
imbrandon[02:50]  <Administrator> you guys releasing edgy while people have kernel panics?09:51
=== Zdra [n=zdra@174.167-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu
Fujitsu[17:51:59]  <Administrator> I need to deliver 500 pc running edgy09:52
Fujitsu[17:52:09]  <tfheen> Administrator: now, please let us concentrate on the release.  There will be no changes to the kernel in edgy.09:52
Fujitsu[17:52:10]  <Administrator> they all have via chipsets09:52
imbrandonjoejaxx, you know kernel freeze was quite a while back ( and if your delivering 500pc's ) i would sugest a LTS release like dapper09:53
Fujitsu... what's this got to do with him?09:54
imbrandonjoejaxx == administrator , diffrent nicks09:54
Lathiat15:52 -!- Administrator [n=Administ@]  has quit ["Leaving"] 09:55
Lathiatwouldnt hav ethought so?09:55
=== Lathiat shrugs
ajmitchoh well09:55
Fujitsuimbrandon, how do you know?09:55
imbrandonFujitsu, i was arround when he registered administrator, i have talked to him for montns about fluxbuntu09:56
Lathiatwell hes back09:56
Lathiatif you want to reissue the comment09:56
Fujitsuimbrandon, you realise that a lot of people use Windows? And Administrator is a default username there?09:56
imbrandonFujitsu, yes, but joejaxx owns the nick afaik09:57
imbrandonthus i figured it was him09:57
Fujitsuimbrandon, him owning it proves what? Administrator wasn't identified...09:57
imbrandonFujitsu, not a damn thing, i said figured09:57
imbrandonnot know for sure09:57
imbrandonyou asked how i knew i told you09:58
imbrandonwhats with the 3rd degree09:58
=== elkbuntu gets the buckets of cold water ready.
gnomefreakhe is on joejaxx atm09:58
imbrandonjez man09:58
Fujitsu<imbrandon> joejaxx == administrator , diffrent nicks09:58
FujitsuThat's pretty definitive!09:58
=== Fujitsu runs away now.
imbrandonyes Fujitsu joejaxx owns that nick09:59
=== elkbuntu ensures Fujitsu is followed by a bucket of cold water.
imbrandon[02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-            Nickname: administrator09:59
imbrandon[02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-          Registered: 8 weeks 3 days (4h 2m 58s) ago09:59
imbrandon[02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-           Last Seen: 1 week 6 days (10h 22m 44s) ago (joejaxx is online)09:59
imbrandon[02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-   Last Seen Address: i=joejaxx@ubuntu/member/joejaxx09:59
minghuacalm down, guys09:59
imbrandoni'm fine, i just dident see the third degree, about "how i knew" hehe10:01
LaserJockwhat is the technical description of what a md5sum is?10:01
minghuaLaserJock: RFC 1321 (as said in md5sum(1) man page)?10:02
FujitsuLaserJock: you mean a secure data hashing algorithm?10:02
LaserJockok, maybe "technical" wasn't the right term :-)10:02
FujitsuThe proper term?10:02
imbrandonMD5 Message-Digest Algorithm10:03
LaserJockok, how about, what is the description10:03
imbrandon   algorithm takes as input a message of arbitrary length and produces10:04
imbrandon   as output a 128-bit "fingerprint" or "message digest" of the input.10:04
LaserJockI know md5sum and sha1sums look at checksums, but I'm not sure what that means10:04
imbrandonthat what you wanted?10:05
LaserJocknot really, but sorta :-)10:06
imbrandoni'm just quoting the url from above10:06
=== imbrandon steals elkbuntu's bucket of water and pours its on Fujitsu , preemtive strike !?!
elkbuntuimbrandon, heh. a slow one at that10:08
imbrandonjust a little10:09
=== LaserJock grabs some Yucca Mountain nuclear waste and lobs it towards KC ;-)
=== Fujitsu runs away.
=== Fujitsu throws Windows CDs at imbrandon.
LaserJockFujitsu: that's pretty low :-)10:10
FujitsuAh, but they're PIRATED Windows CDs, which is integral to the next part of my plan.10:10
elkbuntuLaserJock, he didnt specify version10:10
imbrandoni'll just add them to the AOL cd collection10:10
=== Fujitsu rings 1-800-PIRACY, or whatever that 1800 number for Microsoft Piracy is in the US, and reports imbrandon.
LaserJockelkbuntu: true10:11
FujitsuYou're stuffed now!10:11
imbrandonthey make good christmass tree ornaments , but thats probably against the EULA10:11
FujitsuThat could be it.10:11
FujitsuI have a Windows 95 Certificate of Authenticity around here somewhere...10:12
imbrandonMS promoting good spelling10:12
FujitsuVB4 one... that should have it.10:12
LaserJock"By using this CD as a festive holiday decoration device you are agreeing to our EULA which in short requires you to hand over any future derivative decoration devices"10:12
imbrandonLaserJock, hahahaha10:12
imbrandonprobably one about not whiskey tumbler coasters too in the EULA10:13
imbrandon( you may not buy stuff on ebay while intoxicated )10:14
LaserJock"By using this CD as a alcoholic beverage spill protection device you agree to transfer the copyright to any creative work you create while drinking said beverage."10:15
LaserJockdarn, I should work for the MS legal department10:15
LaserJockwhat a waste10:16
FujitsuLaserJock: you really shoudl.10:16
LaserJocknah, I think chemistry is better for my health and conscience10:17
LaserJockalthough the redmond campus is in a rather nice area10:18
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LaserJockhmm, that's weird. I just realized I have relatives that live almost walking distance from Google, MS, and Adobe10:19
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LaserJockgood thing I'm here to warn them when the FLOSS stampede begins :-)10:20
imbrandonLaserJock, haha10:21
imbrandon3 more hours till i can crank amarok ( everyone is asleep )10:22
imbrandonhow do you die temporarly ?10:23
imbrandon[03:21]  <NewdleBot> imbrandon died, temporarily... This terrible calamity has slowed them 0 days, 01:26:30 from level 46.10:23
imbrandon[03:21]  <NewdleBot> imbrandon reaches next level in 1 day, 01:28:12.10:23
LaserJockwell, you see, you are just mostly dead10:24
=== LaserJock gets out the bellows
LaserJockI think I'll have to start a scripting language based on The Princess Bride10:27
=== Lathiat laughs
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LaserJockah, and instead of pointer I'd have pits of despair10:29
imbrandonLaserJock, haha http://www.boingboing.net/2006/10/22/pot_grown_in_a_pc.html , do they have meth lab case mods in reno ? hehehe10:29
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LaserJockimbrandon: no, not unless they come out with a lowrider version of that case ;-)10:31
LaserJockwith big rims10:31
LaserJockimbrandon: that would make an interesting science fair entry :-)10:32
LaserJock"Technology in the Everyday Life"10:33
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minghuawe have an angry speex upstream maintainer10:38
LaserJockyeah, I just read that10:38
imbrandonyea i read that too, if its just a patch might be good for SRU10:40
LaserJockFujitsu: the speex binary is in Universe according to madison10:40
LaserJockStable Release Update10:40
FujitsuLaserJock: the source is in main.10:40
FujitsuAnd the source is what matters, is it not?10:41
LaserJockmaybe, maybe not10:41
LaserJockI guess10:41
Lathiatits a little dependant10:41
Lathiatgenerally yes that matters10:41
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FujitsuI find it rather silly that there is that split, 'cause we can't do a thing about it if the source is in main.10:41
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FujitsuAnd core-devs are unlikely to touch universe stuff...10:42
FujitsuSo speex is stuffed.10:42
Lathiatwell a motu could co-ordinate with a core-dev10:42
Lathiatand get it fixed10:42
imbrandonyea source is what matters as far as uploadability but if the patch only affect universe binary then10:42
imbrandonFujitsu, if you wanna to check the pacth and stuff i'll be the core-dev part for an SRU10:42
imbrandoni havent done one yet, good time to learn10:43
FujitsuI've got no AMD64 to test on (this problem just keeps coming up :(), so I'm not very useful for it.10:44
Lathiati can test tonight for you10:44
Lathiatin a few hours10:44
Lathiatunless someone else can beforehand10:44
imbrandonFujitsu, give me 2 minutes i can give you access to a amd6410:44
FujitsuI think if it's in upstream and fixes the issue in Edgy, it should be good enough.10:44
Lathiat.. or that. :)10:44
LaserJocksiretart must be lurking :-)10:44
FujitsuThanks, imbrando.10:45
=== minghua just added a comment and replied the mail
imbrandonFujitsu, done check query10:51
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LaserJocksiretart: I just noticed that you replied to the speex email so I figured you were up :-)10:52
imbrandonsiretart, tag looks good to me ( unless you just really want a reply to the mail for a +1 from peeps )10:53
=== ajmitch does not like angering upstreams
ajmitchLaserJock: where was the email?10:56
imbrandonajmitch, yea , its not good, i just gave fujitsu access on my amd64 so he can play with it and get it ready for SRU and me / you / someone can push the upload once approved since its in main ( source )10:56
ajmitchyeah, I saw that earlier today10:57
imbrandonajmitch, the -motu list10:57
=== Fujitsu curses those silly packages with binaries in both universe and main.
imbrandonwhere was debconf6 ?10:58
imbrandonthey have internet in mexico ?10:59
=== imbrandon ducks
LaserJockI remember hearing lots of complaints when it was going on11:00
imbrandonoh there really isnt ? i was half jokin11:00
LaserJocksomething about stringing cables all over the roofs of buildings11:00
imbrandonhahah i wouldent doubt it11:00
imbrandonever been to rural mexico ( that is most of it ) ?11:00
imbrandonits nuts11:00
LaserJockI remember seeing "houses" that were 4 sticks with some tin on top across the street from the largest Dodge dealership I'd ever seen11:01
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imbrandonhum is there software in the default install that will let me go from dvd (non-commercial not talking warez stuff) to mpeg/ogg/or some other great format11:22
imbrandonor maybe in universe ?11:22
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LaserJockUbuntuWorld 2007 ?11:26
imbrandonwhere do you see that ?11:26
phanaticimbrandon: mark's blog11:26
ajmitchoh my11:27
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phanaticwe're just about to have something like that this weekend (you may call UbuntuHungary 2006) :)11:28
imbrandonrockin, UbuntuWorld 2007 would be awesom i think, like an "official" Ubucon or DebconfX11:29
ajmitchimbrandon: shame that most of us won't get to it :)11:29
imbrandonwell i would think it would change cities like debconf11:29
imbrandonbut yea11:29
LaserJockimbrandon: well there is going to be Ubucon twice a year11:30
imbrandonubucon 2 times a year ?11:30
imbrandonat googleplex ?11:30
ajmitchliving in NZ does suck sometimes :)11:30
imbrandonbeing broke does too no matter where you live ( talking about me )11:31
ajmitchoh well11:31
imbrandonkids never get married early11:31
ajmitchus developers can moan together in solidarity ;)11:31
imbrandondivorce is expensive11:31
ajmitchI don't plan to do it11:32
imbrandoni dident plan to get divorced either, but in my case you can only over look a memory problem so much ( she would leave the house and forgot she was married )11:32
=== imbrandon stops
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sivangmorning all11:33
imbrandonheya sivang11:33
ajmitchhi sivang11:33
phanaticmorning sivang11:34
LaserJockimbrandon: 1 at google, the other in New Your I believe11:34
sivangajmitch: ubunutworld , oh my indeed :)11:34
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sivanghi ajmitch , phanatic , imbrandon11:36
sivangLaserJock: twice a year? where do you get all this insider's info? :)11:36
Admiral_Chicagothats a first that i've ever seen11:37
LaserJocksivang: I'm talking about Ubucon11:37
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phanaticLaserJock: there's UDS, there will be UbuntuWorld. and now Ubucon? :)11:39
LaserJockUbucon was before UbuntuWorld :-)11:39
LaserJockand it was at Google before UDS was so....11:39
Admiral_Chicagohe's back11:39
imbrandonubucon has already been happening, and UDS isnt user and company centric11:40
ajmitchUDS was before them all11:40
phanaticLaserJock: oh, right, sorry :)11:40
phanatici remember now11:40
ajmitchAdmiral_Chicago: ?11:40
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Admiral_Chicagoajmitch: ubotu quit and rejoined11:40
Admiral_Chicagoerr nevermind11:41
Admiral_Chicagoi'm really tired and can't read11:41
ajmitchheh, night11:41
Admiral_Chicagosome of you may want to take the poll on the page11:41
Admiral_Chicagoit's about the new art11:41
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imbrandonis xvid a "free" codec ?12:09
Plugit's open source, but I think it has licensing issues12:10
Plugas it's an MPEG-4 derivative12:10
imbrandonhum i'm trying to rip some of my dvds into totaly free formats12:10
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imbrandoni dont see theroa on the list12:11
FujitsuWrite in Theora+Vorbis support, then!12:11
=== Fujitsu ducks.
imbrandonyea , right on , lol12:11
imbrandonFujitsu,  http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss112.png12:13
imbrandonerr 11312:13
imbrandonsee my list of choices12:14
=== Fujitsu dies of heart-attack... There's a page on help.ubuntu.com about the wxMaxima issue... It recommends to compile it manually and use.... c9l
ajmitchFujitsu: special..12:14
imbrandonsee any of those that are "free" totaly ?12:14
FujitsuHow can people recommend such a thing!?12:14
Fujitsuimbrandon, 112 looks like it's the right one... But I can't see anything free there (not sure about the last three, though)12:15
minghuaoh, checkinstall is forbidden to be spoken now?12:15
imbrandonminghua, yes alien , checkinstall and umm what was the third ?12:16
Fujitsuimbrandon: Was there one?12:16
FujitsuWas it RPM?12:16
imbrandonyea i had 3 , no not rpm12:16
minghuabut c9l is really not easy to understand....  I was thinking of another lisp compiler12:16
minghuaimbrandon: automatix?12:17
imbrandonthats possibly #412:17
Fujitsuminghua: it's just too dirty to say it in full.12:17
FujitsuAutomatix is also pretty much forbidden, yes.12:17
FujitsuEasyUbuntu is somewhat better12:17
imbrandonnot alot imho , it should be easy just to DO12:17
imbrandonbut alas the real world bites again12:17
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imbrandonwelp i guess xvid is as good as any for now12:19
sivangah, LaserJoc referred to the ubuntu user con that was in google12:21
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AnAntwhat should I do if I asked a question on #ubuntu+1 & ubuntu-users mailing list several days ago, yet got no answer ?12:29
imbrandonforums, prod friends , depending on the issue umm open a support ticket12:30
AnAntimbrandon: what's the support ticket ? on LP12:30
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ajmitchAnAnt: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+tickets12:32
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Plugif a build (dpkg-buildpackage) stops at something like dh_installdocs, can I rerun without it doing the clean & therefore recompiling?12:57
ajmitchdbpkg-buildpackage -nc12:58
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ajmitchignore the typo, you'll know what I mean12:58
Plugaha!  thanks, i wish I'd known about that years ago :)12:58
sivang       -nc    Do not clean the source tree(implies -b).12:59
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sivangPlug: ^^^12:59
Plugsivang: cheers too12:59
=== sivang hugs Plug
=== ajmitch wonders why bug 67720 is filed against wine
UbugtuMalone bug 67720 in wine "Cannot install wireless driver in newer edgy version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6772012:59
Fujitsuajmitch: why not?01:00
imbrandonbecouse they wanna install the windows drivers ? hehehe01:00
ajmitchFujitsu: because it obviously isn't related to wine? :)01:00
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ajmitchimbrandon: from a tar.gz?01:00
Fujitsuwireless' first 4 letters are close enough to wine, so it's a wine bug.01:00
imbrandonajmitch, i dunno lol01:00
ajmitchFujitsu: given his spelling in the bugreport, it wouldn't surprise me..01:01
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pirastStevenK, any idea what is wrong with the build of enigmail-locales?01:44
StevenKpirast: Um, no, but only because I haven't had a chance to look yet.01:44
pirastStevenK, okay. But you did upload everything, right? It is not just a debdiff that has to be uploaded01:45
pirastStevenK, would be nice when you have a look at that later01:45
StevenKpirast: According to Launchpad, it's in the archive.01:46
StevenKCurrent release:  0.9x-20061010-1ubuntu101:46
StevenKCreator: Martin Jrgens01:46
pirastStevenK,but the builds page at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/enigmail-locales/+builds?build_state=all says it was not build01:47
StevenKi386 build of enigmail-locales 0.9x-20061010-1ubuntu1 in ubuntu edgy RELEASE01:47
StevenKStatus: Successfully built01:47
StevenKAnything else you'd me to disprove? :-01:48
pirastSteveK, lol!01:48
pirastStevenK, I dont know why, but I always saw the version without ubuntu there :-)01:48
pirastStevenK, okay.. it was built today :-)01:48
pirastBut I wonder why it took so long to build :-)01:49
pirastStevenK, thanks :-)01:49
StevenKpirast: Probably because it was sitting in the unapproved queue.01:49
Fujitsupirast: it was only approved less than an hour ago.01:49
StevenKpirast: Since we are so close to release, all uploads have to be approved manually.01:49
pirastk.. thanks :-)01:50
FujitsuOK, almost 2 hours ago, but still.01:50
pirastwargh, I am so happy to have this in Edgy.. It took me some time to fix the issue :-)01:50
pirastI am somewhat happy..01:50
pirastenigmail bug fixed01:50
pirastooo copy and paste bug gets fixed before of the edgy release01:50
pirastfirefox rss bug gets fixed before the edgy release :-)01:51
=== StevenK notes the pusle for his local mirror is going to be large tonight.
StevenKUm. pulse01:52
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Q-FUNKStevenK: what pulse?02:08
Q-FUNKwhat's gonna be so big?02:08
pirastQ-FUNK I think it will probably be the firefox 2 d/ls ;-)02:14
=== StevenK nods.
Q-FUNKony tomorrow, though, not tonight?02:15
StevenKIt might be tonight.02:16
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ajmitchyay, end of the month02:20
ajmitch(for ISP billing)02:20
ajmitchso I can start downloading RC images for testing02:21
pirastsivang, hi02:25
sivanghey pirast02:25
sivangpirast: I wanted to ask you if have any idea bout mod-mono02:26
ajmitchsivang: it's well known02:26
sivangit seems like the borken dependency list is deep deep :)02:26
ajmitchapache-dev & apache2-dev can't be installed together02:26
sivangajmitch: ah, well, with this list of broken stuff no wonder :)02:26
ajmitchnothing we can do immediately to fix that02:26
ajmitchdue to differing libdb4.3-dev & libdb4.4-dev02:26
sivangdiffering from sid ?02:27
ajmitchapache & apache2 use different libdb versions, they need to use the same02:27
sivangwhy can't we have two versions of libdb ?02:27
ajmitchbecause they have the same files02:27
StevenKBecause the symbols weren't versioned, either.02:28
ajmitchit's an old old problem02:28
ajmitchinfinity was going to look at it if he got time, being an apache maintainer02:28
sivangI see02:28
sivangStevenK: versioned symbols ?02:28
ajmitchsivang: magical fun02:29
=== StevenK nods.
sivangyou mean, versioning the exported symbols from a binary?02:29
sivangoh dear02:29
ajmitchinstead of a library wide version, symbols in libraries can get versions as well02:29
sivangspecific to GCC, or IEEE sandard stuff?02:29
StevenKIt's an ELF-ism02:30
sivangI see02:30
=== StevenK notes himself and ajmitch are probably teaching sivang stuff he didn't want to know about ELF. :-P
imbrandonand me ;) ( the dident know part )02:31
sivangStevenK, ajmitch : indeed. I feel so betrayed02:31
sivangjust when I thought that at least at that level things can stay off-magic02:32
sivanganyway, gotta run, see you all alters dude02:32
StevenKNo, no, they get more magical.02:32
sivangStevenK: well, yeah, but versioned symbols? /me wonders how would the debian lib packaging guide would look trying to explain them.02:32
StevenKIt doesn't need to.02:33
sivanghow does lib packaging can relate to versioned symbols?02:33
sivang(give problem might arise if neglecting where the situation is right)02:33
StevenKVersioned symbols are only needed if you want multiple versions of the library to co-exist and be loaded at the same time in the same symbol table.02:33
StevenKAnd maybe not even then.02:34
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StevenKSee, it's magical.02:34
sivangStevenK: hehe, btw,what sane use case could be for that?02:34
sivang(especially: in the *same* symbold table)02:34
StevenKsivang: Most of them *aren't* sane, that's the point. ;-)02:34
thomsivang: your binary loads two extension modules. one is linked to foo1.2, and one is linked to foo2.002:35
StevenKTo be honest, it's something you want to avoid.02:35
=== bhale bets php might be a culprit for that
sivangbhale: I would think ;-p02:35
sivangthom: nice02:36
=== sivang notes this in the "things I never really wanted to know" list
=== StevenK chuckles.
ajmitchI'm sure keybuk could tell you even more details02:36
sivangyes, his the master of the dirty details ;-)02:37
sivanganyway fells, I need to run now. laters all!02:37
ajmitchgiven that he maintained libtool at some point, iirc02:37
=== ajmitch had better go & sleep or something
thomStevenK: libdb _does_ have versioned symbols02:38
thomit's one of the oldest things in the archive that does02:38
=== StevenK must have remembered wrongly.
thombut you still can't install two sets of its dev headers together02:39
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pirastsivang, no i  dont have any..02:42
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zulwth is vegemite?03:40
StevenKAn Australian spread made from yeast.03:41
zulah ok..03:41
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StevenKApparently, now illegal to import into America.03:41
zulyeah i been reading jdub's blog03:41
zulaussie's in america are welcome to canada i dont think we have banned it (yet)03:42
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bddebianHeya gang03:49
Gloubiboulgahello bddebian03:49
bddebianHi Gloubiboulga03:49
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rmjbMorning guys05:10
rmjbhey, I uploaded my first package to revu, but I didn't get an email with an initial password. How long does that take?05:10
rmjbah, no probs I saw how I get it05:13
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superm1ping  dholbach05:59
dholbachsuperm1: pong05:59
superm1hey dholbach, i saw that you reassigned the uvfe i filed for autoprofile to me06:00
superm1should it be-reassigned to me since i can't sync it personally?06:00
dholbachsuperm1: you can take care of the next steps, ubuntu-universe-sponsors and the like06:01
dholbachit's not in 'motu-uvf' s hands anymore06:01
superm1Ah i see.06:01
superm1very well06:01
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Jozo-dholbach: What should I do with bug 66507 and gnunet (0.7.0e-2ubuntu2)?06:20
UbugtuMalone bug 66507 in gnunet "[DEBDIFF]  gnunet: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6650706:20
dholbachJozo-: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/019922.html06:21
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_MMA_Hello guys. How do I find out if a package already has a maintainer? ie: theres packages for Somasuite I want to get into Feisty.06:25
LaserJock_MMA_: check if it's in edgy, REVU, or Debian06:26
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Toadstoolgood morning everybody06:27
sivangFesity is open already ?06:27
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_MMA_As far as Edgy goes theres 3 of like 10 packages there. Im not sure how to check the others.06:27
_MMA_sivang: Im just planning ahead. ;)06:28
LaserJock_MMA_: for REVU, revu.tauware.de06:29
LaserJock_MMA_: for Debian, try packages.debian.org06:29
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sivangBurgwork: Hey corey06:29
Burgworkhey sivang06:30
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_MMA_LaserJock: It looks like the packages Ubuntu has are the same as Debian-Unstable. And its just Somaplayer. Im trying to get the entire suite in.06:35
superm1_MMA_, if thats the case, you can assemble a package for the rest of the suite and upload it to revu for the wonderful MOTU's here to look at06:38
superm1once Feisty repos open up and they approve your package, it can be added to universe for feisty06:38
_MMA_Ok. Thank you for the info.06:39
superm1_MMA_, if you haven't packaged before at all, take a look at the ubuntu packaging guide to get started, https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html06:40
_MMA_I plan on looking into that. For right Im just managing a team of people. We have someone who wants to package so Ill also send them the link. Thank you.06:44
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poningruwhere can I find the changelogs for packages?06:47
poningrunot in my comp06:47
poningrubut online06:47
poningruthat seems to only have stable's packages06:48
poningrui.e dapper06:48
poningruor not06:48
superm1on packages.ubuntu.com, you can search for edgy packages.  there is a link for each source packages's changelog too06:48
LaserJocksuperm1: does that work?06:49
lophytesuperm1: doesn't look like my myth box is coming.. been almost 2 weeks06:49
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poningruwoot much better thanks06:50
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superm1LaserJock, yea it does.06:58
superm1Thats how i have grabbed source packages when i didn't have access to apt, and i've looked at changelogs there too06:58
LaserJocksuperm1: seemed like i was linking to the wrong place for a while06:58
superm1lophyte, you need to find some more reliable friends :)06:58
superm1LaserJock, very possible it is doing that for specific packages still, i've only looked a few times06:59
superm1LaserJock, but it also takes some time before the updated changelogs get put there from what i've noticed06:59
superm1LaserJock, example: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/multiverse/m/mythtv/mythtv_0.20-0.2ubuntu2/changelog is obtained from http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/graphics/mythtv  And points to the right changelog, but that didn't pop up for at least a day after the last debdiff was uploaded07:02
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sivangslomo_: do you happen to the package name of the real media video codec?07:14
joejaxximbrandon: so someone is prentending to be me again07:17
joejaxxi need to talk to Freenode about that07:17
superm1LaserJock, are you going up to UDS?07:19
superm1could you possibly look over a spec i put together and attend the meeting the day its talked about?  I won't be able to take off of work to make it up. https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/automatic-module-assistant07:20
LaserJockprobably not :/07:21
LaserJockI'm not going to be there the whole time07:21
LaserJockand there are probably better people07:22
superm1well could you at least look it over and make any recommendations on it?07:22
LaserJockwahoo, wget +html2text = easy LP parsing07:22
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LaserJocklucas: you here?07:26
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LaserJocklucas: what do you use to parse Debian and LP for bugs in MDT?07:28
lucasDebian: the data is available on qa.debian.org07:28
lucasLP: +bugs-text07:28
lucas(which really sucks, but there's no better solution)07:28
slomo_sivang: what exactly do you mean? package name? or really codec name?07:32
sivangslomo_: well, package name. I was unable to find one. Do we have one at all?07:33
slomo_sivang: probably in the realplayer package... no idea... just don't use it ;)07:33
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joejaxxLaserJock: is the firefox icon supposed to be used in Ubuntu?08:10
LaserJockwell, that's sort of up in the air right now08:11
LaserJockalthough it looks to me like we are going to keep it08:11
joejaxxoh ok i was just wondering since it appeared with the dist-upgrade08:11
LaserJockyes, that's the way it is in Edgy08:11
joejaxxbefore with rc it was still the earth icon08:12
joejaxxwhich version is this then?08:12
joejaxxsince i had to dist-upgrade from rc?08:12
LaserJockwhat version is what?08:13
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joejaxxwell what developmental version of ubuntu is this dist-upgrade08:14
joejaxxsince i had RC08:14
_MMA_Laserjock: Can you tell us why Ubuntu can use it now or point me to some info?08:15
joejaxxand it wanted me to dist-upgrade08:15
LaserJockjoejaxx: it'd edgy08:15
joejaxxso stable :D08:15
joejaxxor final08:15
LaserJockit'd just edgy08:15
LaserJockgrr, can't type s's today08:16
joejaxxLaserJock: but i had Edgy RC before08:16
LaserJockjoejaxx: you are running Edgy, right?08:16
zulLaserJock: its the key by the f08:16
LaserJockjoejaxx: so when you run apt-get dist-upgrade you are just updating edgy08:17
LaserJockzul: yeah, yeah, but "d" is so much more convenient08:17
joejaxxLaserJock: well it was actually from the update-manager08:17
zulLaserJock: lol08:17
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LaserJockjoejaxx: fine08:18
joejaxxLaserJock: the reason i was asking08:18
LaserJockjoejaxx: but as long as you don't change your sources.list you are running edgy08:18
joejaxxis because it told me there was a distibution upgrade normal it jut says it has found these updates08:18
joejaxxLaserJock: ok08:19
LaserJock_MMA_: well, Edgy is basically frozen and mdz has been talking with Mozilla. You can get more info on the ubuntu-devel mailing list08:20
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superm1particularly http://archives.free.net.ph/thread/20061023.181921.4ea4c7b4.en.html if anyone wanted to read what LaserJock was referring to08:26
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LaserJockanybody know how you can read  file line by line in a shell script08:51
LaserJockwell, I want to loop over the lines in a file08:59
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LaserJockbut each line has 2 columns09:00
GloubiboulgaLaserJock, hello!09:00
LaserJockso if I just do a for line in `cat $file` it splits each line up09:00
LaserJockhi Gloubiboulga09:00
GloubiboulgaLaserJock, could you confirm that bug 58481 is fixed?09:00
UbugtuMalone bug 58481 in scilab "scilab+ubuntu dapper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5848109:00
Gloubiboulgaha, it's a dapper bug09:01
LaserJockit's not fixed in Dapper09:01
LaserJockbut in Edgy it is09:01
LaserJockI'm not sure what to do about it09:01
LaserJockI don't think there really is anything we can do09:01
GloubiboulgaI've just received a mail from a scilab dev, proposing a patch (which is in edgy)09:01
BurgworkLaserJock: prepare a dapper-updates09:01
LaserJockBurgwork: it's a major new upstream version change09:02
Gloubiboulgacan't we backport scilab 4.0 in dapper?09:02
ajmitchmorning all09:02
BurgworkGloubiboulga: backports are not enabled by default09:02
BurgworkLaserJock: but there must be a smaller patch09:02
LaserJockGloubiboulga: did the dev propose a patch for the Dapper version?09:02
LaserJockBurgwork: probably but I doubt I have time to hunt it down09:03
GloubiboulgaLaserJock, no, it's the patch comming from debian, ie removing the gtk support09:03
Gloubiboulgain 4.009:03
LaserJockI hate doing stable release updates09:03
LaserJockespecially since Dapper is a mess09:03
LaserJockGloubiboulga: do you think you can track down a specific patch to fix this?09:04
LaserJockeither by asking Debian or the scilab devs?09:04
GloubiboulgaLaserJock, it's a GTK bug09:04
LaserJockso we have to get rid of GTK?09:05
LaserJockor can be just apply a patch?09:05
Gloubiboulgaor we can fix it :)09:05
Gloubiboulgawell, the scilab dev told me that the gtk version is not supported09:05
LaserJockwell, whatever works :-)09:05
Gloubiboulgaso they won't work on it, and I'm not sure I'll be able to fix the bug09:06
LaserJockyeah, nothing like having some of the most popular math/science software completely broken09:07
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LaserJockI really wish they hadn't called Dapper an LTS release09:08
Gloubiboulgaa rebuild without the gtk support for dapper-updates is certainly the easiest solution IMO09:08
GloubiboulgaLaserJock, if scilab is broken, an update is not a big risk :)09:10
LaserJockyes, but it still has to go through all the processes09:11
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LaserJockwe've been working on gcl/maxima for weeks now09:11
LaserJockthe amount of "completely broken" apps keeps getting bigger09:11
LaserJockanyway, if a rebuild without gtk works then I say we do a SRU09:14
GloubiboulgaLaserJock, I'm answering to the Scilab dev, I can CC you maybe?09:17
giskardhi LaserJock :)09:18
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GloubiboulgaLaserJock, I'll try the new build tomorrow, it's time to go to bed for me09:27
LaserJockgood night09:27
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CaleDoes anyone know anything about the status of a GHC 6.6 package for ubuntu?09:34
Caleslomo_: perhaps you'd know?09:35
NafalloCale: you probably ment sistpoty rather than slomo09:36
CaleNafallo: yeah, slomo_ is also mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/UncommonProgrammingLanguages/Haskell09:36
slomo_Cale: better ask sistpoty but he's not online right now... i didn't look at GHC for a long time now09:37
slomo_Cale: why do you ask?09:37
CaleBecause I'd like to run it :)09:37
Cale6.6 incorporates a bunch of new libraries and language features.09:37
slomo_well... we have ghc 6.4 and it works ;)09:38
Caleyeah, I know :)09:38
slomo_and we'll get 6.6 with feisty as debian already has it anyway09:38
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giskardhello slomo_09:47
slomo_hi giskard :)09:47
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giskardhello bddebian09:55
bddebianHello giskard09:55
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LaserJockscilab can't find Xaw3d10:30
LaserJockbut it's got the build-dep10:30
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cbx33good evenin fellow MOTUs11:55
lupine_85btw, I got an emai from ubuntu about a package that I added to universe... apparently it's failing to build on the build machines. anything I can do?11:57
lupine_85It *did* build in pbuilder, on mine and (presumably) my advocates' machines,11:58
lupine_85(the package is rutilt)11:58
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about rutilt - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi11:58
LaserJocklupine_85: can you rebuild with an updated pbuilder?11:58
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lupine_85I can try11:59
cbx33could be a depdency has changed since?11:59
cbx33LaserJock, hmm... ;)11:59
ajmitchyou could look at the build logs & see what caused it to fail11:59
lupine_85it's the kernel headers that do it :(11:59
lupine_85I think you were one of my advocates11:59
ajmitchah yes, the difference in behaviour between pbuilder & sbuild on buildds12:00
lupine_85is it something I can fix?12:00
ajmitchthat's not the failure12:00
ajmitch/usr/bin/make clean12:01
ajmitchmake[1] : Entering directory `/build/buildd/rutilt-0.12'12:01
ajmitchMakefile:34: Makefile_cst: No such file or directory12:01
ajmitchmake[1] : *** No rule to make target `Makefile_cst'.  Stop.12:01
lupine_85that error gets ignored though?12:01
ajmitchthe makefile problem is where it fails12:01
lupine_85hmm... makefile_cst gets generated by the config script12:02
lupine_85it's not in the original tarball, and packaging rules forbid that I add it...12:03
lupine_85no, that's a red herring12:06
lupine_85the problem is when it can't find /usr/src/linux-headers-$(uname -r)12:06
lupine_85or when they are mismatched against the current kernel12:06
lupine_85hmm... changing to /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build *might* fix it12:07
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lupine_85yes... the build machine is running kernel but the headers installed were 2.6.17-10-server-bigiron12:09

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