[12:35] <astinus> j #gentoo-security,#gentoo-infra
[12:35] <astinus> Erk
[12:40] <jikanter> after creating my gpg key, I got similar output as the tutorial online at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto, but I am still a bit confused about the output and which information I need to save.  Is my private key stored somewhere where I can retrieve it?
[12:44] <Hobbsee> morning all
[12:44] <Nafallo> hi Hobbsee :-)
[12:53] <ajmitch> morning Hobbsee
[12:53] <Fujitsu> LP notifies on build failures now, does it?
[12:53] <ajmitch> you're up early ;)
[12:53] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: as is evident by emails you may receive
[12:53] <Fujitsu> I'm wondering why I got emails about builds that failed... about 2 months ago? Or has is decided to try to rebuild them?
[12:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm at uni on time :P
[12:54] <ajmitch> mass give-back
[12:54] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: worrying
[12:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed.
[12:54] <Fujitsu> Aha, thanks.
[12:54] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: how's gcl/maxima
[12:55] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, dholbach says he'll look at the Dapper fix once Edgy is released.
[12:55] <Fujitsu> In general though, I don't know.
[12:55] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: grrr
[12:56] <Fujitsu> So we're stuck with `It doesn't work! Fix it now! This isn't good enough for a LTS release!' from all our loyal users.
[12:57] <LaserJock> hmm, well this is a bit silly
[12:57] <Fujitsu> It is a fairly nasty breakage in what could be a very important package to a lot of people, so it's understandable they're rather irritated.
[12:58] <LaserJock> I don't see why we need to wait 2-3 weeks for this
[12:58] <LaserJock> but whatever :-)
[12:59] <crimsun> well, sound will be broken for a huge number of people when Edgy releases. I'm not happy either, but if the release manager says it goes, then it goes.
[01:00] <Fujitsu> crimsun, what's wrong with it?
[01:00] <crimsun> half the HDA codecs are missing vital patches that weren't available til October
[01:00] <ajmitch> that's unfortunate
[01:00] <Fujitsu> Fun.
[01:00] <Fujitsu> I saw a patch by you a while ago which fixes my microphone, I believe.
[01:01] <Fujitsu> (STAC92xx)
[01:01] <crimsun> I'm having lots of fun supporting two releases simultaneously, and when Edgy+1 opens, three!
[01:01] <Fujitsu> Isn't sound, you know... Fairly important?
[01:01] <Fujitsu> Yes, fun fun fun.
[01:02] <crimsun> well, to many people, yes, quite critical. In the grand scheme of whether the machine boots, however, it's rather tertiary.
[01:03] <LaserJock> well, I would hope at this stage in the game we are past the "Does it boot or not?" question, but yeah
[01:03] <LaserJock> I'm amazed at how fragile Ubuntu is at times
[01:03] <ajmitch> LaserJock: not necessarily
[01:03] <ajmitch> just spend 5 minutes in the forums & you'll see
[01:04] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, nooooo.
[01:04] <crimsun> many of the problems are with newer hardware, and that's always an issue.
[01:04] <crimsun> chucking new kernels into the repo right up until release just to support newer hardware is madness
[01:04] <ajmitch> I agree
[01:05] <ajmitch> crimsun: isn't the sound problem mainly newer hardware?
[01:05] <crimsun> yep, HDA nearly exclusively
[01:05] <ajmitch> at least I haven't spotted issues with the hda codec with my laptop
[01:05] <crimsun> mostly Realtek and Sigmatel HDA codecs
[01:07] <ajmitch> some realtek, I can't recall which now
[01:07] <Fujitsu> My Inspiron 630m (almost a year old now) still has no working microphone, so it's not just /new/ hardware.
[01:08] <ajmitch> Codec: Realtek ALC260
[01:08] <astinus> Fujitsu: Aye, but I'd argue that in the grand scheme of things it goes;  Does the system boot? --> Can it be used day-to-day (Xorg, etc)? --> Does little things work (sound)? --> Does even littler things work (microphones)?
[01:08] <ajmitch> aha
[01:08] <ajmitch> works nicely thanks to crimsun :)
[01:08] <crimsun> Fujitsu: it's new in terms of support.
[01:08] <crimsun> $ grep -nH 630 *
[01:08] <crimsun> patch_sigmatel.c:595:     .config = STAC_REF }, /* Dell Inspiron 630m */
[01:08] <Fujitsu> astinus, true.
[01:08] <Fujitsu> crimsun, :O
[01:08] <astinus> Fujitsu: Very little consolation, I agree, but there's only so many hours in the day :P
[01:09] <Fujitsu> astinus, but I saw the patch to fix the microphone on the kernel-team mailing list a couple of weeks back... So close.
[01:10] <ajmitch> kernel has to freeze earlier for good reasons
[01:10] <Fujitsu> At least, I presume it was the right patch. Almost identical hardware, same symptoms.
[01:10] <astinus> Fujitsu: Awesome :)  I'm very thankful, my laptop with Intel HDA seems to 'just work' and its brand new... I've got a Samsung Q35 with a Core Duo 1.83GHz...
[01:11] <astinus> (Interestingly enough I always hit issues with new laptop + Gentoo, but no issues with same laptop + Ubuntu *grin*  Lord knows why that might be....)
[01:57] <CarlFK> where can I post problems I have when I build spe.deb using the script at the bottom of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpdatingADeb
[02:35] <theCore> that's funny...
[02:36] <theCore> I'm getting support request by email from people I don
[02:36] <lophyte> !seen superm1
[02:36] <theCore> don't know*
[02:36] <ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 2d 2h 18m 26s ago, quiting: "Quitting, send all complaints > /dev/null"
[02:39] <zul> theCore: that happens all the time
[02:40] <theCore> zul, how should I handle them?
[02:41] <zul> theCore: what i do is if they are bug reports ask them to open up in launchpad, if they are support answer them back :)
[02:43] <theCore> I wonder how they got my email...
[02:45] <theCore> oh, I get it they found my Jabber account, which uses the same address
[02:47] <theCore> I wonder if they send their email to many peoples. A bit like spammers, but instead of your money, they want support
[04:32] <rmjb> hi, I have a question
[04:32] <Fujitsu> Hi rmjb.
[04:32] <rmjb> why do I get an error if I apt-get source a package then sudo pbuilder build it
[04:33] <rmjb> shouldn't source packages from the repos build without a problem?
[04:33] <rmjb> hi Fujitsu
[04:33] <Fujitsu> rmjb, not always. Some of them break when we get newer versions of other packages, for example.
[04:33] <Fujitsu> Which package in particular?
[04:33] <rmjb> dmraid
[04:34] <Fujitsu> That hasn't been built on Edgy before, so it is quite possible for it to be broken.
[04:34] <rmjb> I'm actually trying to fix/upgrade it as my first package
[04:35] <rmjb> but it's is giving me some problems
[04:35] <rmjb> this is one for example:
[04:35] <rmjb> dh_installdocs 1.0.0.rc13/{CREDITS,KNOWN_BUGS,README,TODO}
[04:35] <rmjb> cp: cannot stat `1.0.0.rc13/{CREDITS,KNOWN_BUGS,README,TODO}': No such file or directory
[04:35] <Fujitsu> OK, I'm building it here at the moment to see what its issues are...
[04:35] <Fujitsu> Aha!
[04:35] <Fujitsu> A bashism.
[04:35] <rmjb> dh_installdocs was upgraded since dapper?
[04:35] <Fujitsu> In Edgy, we've changed over to using dash, rather than bash, as the default shell.
[04:36] <rmjb> oh... so that's why
[04:36] <rmjb> need to do this the long way then
[04:36] <Fujitsu> The {whatever,whatever2} etc. stuff is specifically for bash, doesn't work in dash.
[04:36] <rmjb> thanks Fujitsu!
[04:36] <Fujitsu> Yes, you'll have to do it manually.
[04:36] <rmjb> been trying to figure why it doesn't work since yesterday
[04:36] <Fujitsu> No problem.
[04:37] <rmjb> btw, how'd you know it wasn't built on edgy yet?
[04:38] <Fujitsu> /usr/share/apt-cacher/apt-cacher-import.pl
[04:38] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[04:38] <Fujitsu> Stupid thing didn't copy...
[04:38] <Fujitsu> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid
[04:38] <Fujitsu> If you look there, you'll see that the version in Edgy is the same as in Dapper, so the binaries were migrated over.
[04:38] <rmjb> okay I see
[04:40] <Fujitsu> Indeed, once that bashism is fixed, the package builds.
[04:41] <rmjb> yeah, I got another error when I did an upgrade though
[04:41] <rmjb> Installing dmraid.8 in /usr/share/man/man8
[04:41] <rmjb> /usr/bin/install: cannot create regular file `/usr/share/man/man8/dmraid.8'
[04:41] <rmjb> I don't know how that passes in the current version because I copied the same rules file over
[04:42] <Fujitsu> Copy the entire debian/ over, there's other stuff there that is important....
[04:42] <Fujitsu> Specifically, the dirs file.
[04:42] <rmjb> yeah that's what I did
[04:42] <Fujitsu> Hrm, there isn't one in this case.
[04:43] <Fujitsu> Is that when building the package?
[04:44] <rmjb> yes, the new upstream version, with the contents of the current version's debian directory
[04:49] <Fujitsu> (currently building the new version to see what I can get out of it)
[04:56] <rmjb> one thing that's needed in the upgrade is changing the starting position of dmraid in rcS from S03 to S11
[04:57] <rmjb> I've done that in the rule, but update-rc.d does not reposition the script if it's there already
[04:57] <rmjb> is there a standard procedure to do this?
[04:57] <rmjb> s/rule/rules
[05:10] <Fujitsu> Afternoon, LaserJock.
[05:10] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[05:10] <rmjb> hey LaserJock
[05:10] <LaserJock> hi rmjb, sorry I haven't replied yet
[05:10] <imbrandon> hello all
[05:11] <rmjb> np LaserJock
[05:11] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[05:11] <rmjb> hey imbrandon
[05:11] <Fujitsu> (I've been using KDE for almost 24 hours now, and I think I've eliminated the `ARGH! It's burning my eyes out!' sensation)
[05:12] <rmjb> kubuntu konvert?
[05:12] <Fujitsu> Not really, just having a look at the `other side'.
[05:12] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe
[05:12] <Fujitsu> It is a bit blindingly bright to start with.
[05:12] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, thats how it all starts ;)
[05:12] <LaserJock> rmjb: with respect to your question, if there is a binary package in the archive it just means it built at some time
[05:13] <LaserJock> rmjb: sometimes dependencies have changes since the package was last built
[05:14] <rmjb> cool, Fujitsu ironed it out, he said the build error I was seeing was a bashism, since edgy symlinks /bin/sh to dash instead
[05:14] <LaserJock> ah yeah
[05:21] <ajmitch> fun
[05:22] <rmjb> any tips on moving the position on a start script? I have to move dmraid to after udev (which is at S03)
[05:22] <rmjb> can I call update-rc.d within the rules?
[05:22] <rmjb> directly I mean, instead of through dh_installinit
[05:22] <rmjb> s/on/of
[05:25] <imbrandon> or convert it to an upstart job ;)
[05:26] <rmjb> I'm game for that, did Scott do a howto or guide on that?
[05:27] <imbrandon> no idea, i havent tried it yet, but upstart.ubuntu.com would be a good place to start
[05:27] <rmjb> cool, thanks imbrandon
[05:27] <imbrandon> i dont even know if its at a stage thats viable yet, but its a thought
[05:47] <LaserJock> ohhh, nifty Debconf6 DVDs
[05:48] <LaserJock> I must really be a geek when they only thing I burn to DVD is Debconf videos
[05:49] <imbrandon> heh
[05:50] <ajmitch> hehe
[05:53] <ajmitch> o dar
[05:53] <ajmitch> obbs as stoln my kys
[05:53] <imbrandon> lol
[05:53] <rmjb> going to test my new (and first) dmraid package
[05:53] <ajmitch> Amaranth: what's with the mass reversions on the BerylOnEdgy page?
[05:53] <imbrandon> oh wow i dident know you could get debconf video downloads
[05:54] <Amaranth> ajmitch: *hides*
[05:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: :D
[05:54] <Amaranth> ajmitch: Some stupidity with a guy from the forums.
[05:54] <ajmitch> Amaranth: a little disagreement? :)
[05:54] <imbrandon> theres a wiki for it? seems simple, enable composite in xorg.conf , start beryl
[05:54] <imbrandon> done ;)
[05:55] <ajmitch> imbrandon: plus install the various crackful packages
[05:55] <imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe i just made my own with tonio
[05:55] <Amaranth> imbrandon: It guides you through installing drivers, turning things on in xorg.conf, adding beryl repos, installing it, and adding it to startup scripts.
[05:55] <ajmitch> imbrandon: beryl packages?
[05:55] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
[05:56] <ajmitch> they probably follow policy far far better than the current ones do then
[05:56] <Amaranth> ajmitch: He wanted to have it include instructions for manually installing nvidia drivers from the original .run file, I said that was wrong because it breaks too easily.
[05:56] <Amaranth> The current ones are a mess.
[05:56] <imbrandon> install 2 packages , enable composite in xorg.conf and start beryl , seems simple, no need for other steps
[05:56] <Amaranth> I've been meaning to sit down and make them not suck.
[05:56] <ajmitch> Amaranth: yes, DBO wanted me to look over them, then gave up on me when I couldn't do it quickly enough
[05:57] <Amaranth> imbrandon: There are some tweaks and such.
[05:57] <Amaranth> imbrandon: Just check it out: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BerylOnEdgy
[05:57] <imbrandon> ajmitch, want the source for the packages me and tonio did/use ?
[05:58] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I don't have time to care about it at the moment
[05:58] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:58] <ajmitch> I'm sure that sabdfl will have someone on it asap :P
[05:58] <rmjb> IT WORKED! yay!
[05:59] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe I can get AIGLX working on this laptop
[05:59] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea thats the main reason we did it was for edgy+1 ( had no idea about the crack on the forums )
[05:59] <imbrandon> LaserJock, do you have X working in edgy ?
[05:59] <LaserJock> for some reason all the computers I work on have ATI graphics :(
[05:59] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I worry about the push for it to be the default WM
[05:59] <LaserJock> imbrandon: sure, but my problem as been ATI
[06:00] <imbrandon> ajmitch, that would suck as its slow as piss, i have it installed but only start it to "show off"
[06:00] <imbrandon> LaserJock, if you have X in edgy working you have aiglx working
[06:00] <imbrandon> its built in
[06:00] <LaserJock> well, but the ability to *use* it I mean
[06:00] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:01] <ajmitch> imbrandon: if I'm brave enough to install the beta nvidia drivers I *may* consider trying it
[06:01] <imbrandon> LaserJock, sure, just make sure you have 3d rendering enabled and add ...
[06:01] <imbrandon> Section "Extensions"
[06:01] <imbrandon>         Option "Composite" "Enable"
[06:01] <imbrandon> EndSection
[06:01] <imbrandon> to xorg.conf, all done
[06:01] <LaserJock> imbrandon: but does it work with fglrx drivers?
[06:02] <Amaranth> LaserJock: No, you need XGL for that
[06:02] <Amaranth> It's super easy for Intel users though, like imbrandon said.
[06:02] <Amaranth> although apparently you also want Option "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true"  in Device
[06:02] <Amaranth> I dunno, I only wrote the nvidia section of that guide
[06:02] <ajmitch> I should try beryl on the laptop I guess :)
[06:02] <imbrandon> with aiglx it should be the same for all cards
[06:02] <LaserJock> I'd try it on my nvidia box but it's got dapper
[06:02] <ajmitch> since it has an i915 chip
[06:03] <imbrandon> ajmitch, with intell just do what i said
[06:03] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I heard it doesn't work for fglrx drivers
[06:03] <imbrandon> its super easy
[06:03] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Compiz runs OK, but it can be a little laggy at times with an i915.
[06:03] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I've run it before, thanks
[06:03] <Fujitsu> (haven't tried Beryl)
[06:03] <imbrandon> LaserJock, it does on my laptop with the "ati" drivers ( non binary )
[06:03] <Fujitsu> fglrx in Edgy at the moment is stuffed, anyway.
[06:03] <Amaranth> heh
[06:04] <LaserJock> imbrandon: right, but so far I haven't had any luck with the nonbinary drivers
[06:04] <Fujitsu> What's wrong with it, Amaranth?
[06:04] <Amaranth> I'm wireless only, no need to try to get a DHCP lease on every device with a massive timeout :P
[06:04] <imbrandon> LaserJock, why ? X wont start ?
[06:04] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I have unsupported cards
[06:04] <Amaranth> I had like 1:48 boot time before I removed that, 0:35 boot time after.
[06:05] <imbrandon> Amaranth, just edit your /etc/networking/interfaces then and comment out the rest
[06:05] <Amaranth> wow that's what changed from dapper to edgy
[06:05] <Amaranth> i was wondering about that
[06:05] <imbrandon> no its the same here on dapper and edgy
[06:05] <imbrandon> dunno what your thinking
[06:06] <Amaranth> In dapper I just had lo in there
[06:06] <ajmitch> back in a few min
[06:06] <Amaranth> And I don't remember modifying it, I would have remember the long boot times.
[06:06] <imbrandon> somthing was stuffed up then
[06:06] <Amaranth> It was good though, I use NetworkManager to handle my wireless. :)
[06:07] <imbrandon> well if network manager actualy worked i might think about using it
[06:07] <Amaranth> Oh well, I'm just happy to see a 0:35 boot time. :D
[06:08] <LaserJock> oh cool, I am using "ati" on this lappy
[06:08] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:17] <LaserJock> brb, gonna see if this works :-)
[06:20] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe
[06:21] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[06:21] <LaserJock> haha, jiggly windows
[06:21] <Fujitsu> Heheh, yeah.
[06:22] <LaserJock> the cube is all right, doesn't seem as smooth as mine on OS X
[06:23] <LaserJock> but still pretty cool
[06:24] <LaserJock> Alt-Tab is pretty nifty
[06:24] <ajmitch> I guess :)
[06:25] <imbrandon> LaserJock, got it working ?>
[06:25] <imbrandon> hehe
[06:25] <Fujitsu> Brb, testing encryption magic.
[06:25] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah
[06:25] <ajmitch> imbrandon: how up-to-date are your beryl packages?
[06:26] <imbrandon> ajmitch, about 1 week old
[06:26] <imbrandon> or so
[06:26] <ajmitch> 0.1.1?
[06:26] <imbrandon> should be , let me check to make absolute sure
[06:26] <LaserJock> how do you get it to do the expose type thing
[06:27] <imbrandon> ajmitch, no 1.0 shouldent be a big deal to update them though
[06:27] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It was originally F12, not sure what it is nowadays.
[06:27] <imbrandon> 0.1.0*
[06:28] <ajmitch> imbrandon: maybe if the packages are better you should change the BerylOnEdgy page to point to them ;)
[06:28] <ajmitch> making sure that you don't annoy Amaranth too much :)
[06:28] <imbrandon> yea i was thinking the same thing
[06:28] <Amaranth> ajmitch: haha
[06:29] <Amaranth> imbrandon: If you get some decent 0.1.1 packages in a repo somewhere I'd be more then happy to tell users to use them.
[06:29] <Amaranth> imbrandon: You might want to join #beryl-dev and poke someone though.
[06:29] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I'd be more willing to trust your packages, to be honest
[06:29] <imbrandon> Amaranth, yea i'll update them from 0.1 to 0.1.1 tonight
[06:30] <ajmitch> not meaning to insult those in the community who have gone to the effort of packaging
[06:30] <ajmitch> but last I looked, they were crap :)
[06:30] <Amaranth> ajmitch: I think they were made my someone in the debian mentors program thing
[06:30] <Amaranth> err, by
[06:30] <ajmitch> Amaranth: figures
[06:30] <imbrandon> heh, one sec i'ma grab a soda and lok at it now, doing nothing atm anyhow
[06:30] <crimsun> I love how someone posted a link to his own Flash 9 debs in a flashplugin-nonfree bug report
[06:30] <ajmitch> that's no guarantee of quality
[06:31] <ajmitch> crimsun: it hurts
[06:31] <Fujitsu> crimsun: I know, it's really great.
[06:31] <imbrandon> crimsun, ouch
[06:31] <Amaranth> ajmitch: No, that makes me even more worried about their quality.
[06:31] <ajmitch> crimsun: I frequently get to deal with backported/new crack for mono
[06:31] <Fujitsu> Here are my debs. They're your problem now.
[06:31] <imbrandon> LOL
[06:31] <ajmitch> Amaranth: I tried to convince DBO to talk to the compiz maintainer for debian, but he didn't see the point
[06:32] <Amaranth> Uh oh, we're going to get flamed again. :P
[06:32] <ajmitch> Amaranth: why? :)
[06:32] <Amaranth> "Ubuntu doesn't share the bling!"
[06:32] <ajmitch> haha
[06:32] <Amaranth> "Hey man, quit bogarting the pipe", etc etc etc
[06:33] <Fujitsu> Erm, I take it beryl isn't working great :P
[06:33] <Amaranth> Fujitsu: It has some serious design issues as admitted by the developers but apparently their emerald theme manager can now pull themes from SVN in the latest version....
[06:34] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: it is wonderful! do not question the Glorious Revolution!
[06:34] <ajmitch> Amaranth: is there an ITP filed for beryl in debian yet?
[06:34] <Amaranth> ajmitch: I believe so.
[06:34] <ajmitch> right
[06:34] <ajmitch> then we won't bother pushing imbrandon's packages to debian then
[06:35] <Amaranth> I say someone needs to bonk the beryl and compiz developers over the head a couple times and get them to just start over.
[06:35] <ajmitch> Amaranth: oh, I see it - done by the guy who has the *wonderful* packaging in svn
[06:35] <Amaranth> ajmitch: yeah, the guy in the mentors program
[06:36] <ajmitch> the mentors program really is a loose term
[06:36] <Amaranth> MyFirstPackage and all that
[06:36] <ajmitch> it's a mailing list & irc channel
[06:36] <imbrandon> i'm in the mentors program, that means nothing other than they signed up for a "sponsor"
[06:36] <Amaranth> I dunno, he keeps talking about Debian Mentors. :P
[06:36] <ajmitch> usually no structured mentoring at all
[06:36] <imbrandon> exactly
[06:36] <ajmitch> Amaranth: yes, I heard that he's all official & all, whatever that may mean
[06:37] <rmjb> coincidentally, I asked LaserJock to mentor me yesterday for MOTU
[06:38] <Amaranth> svn co http://svn.beryl-project.org/trunk beryl
[06:38] <ajmitch> yeah
[06:38] <ajmitch> my copy has URL: svn://metascape.afraid.org/svnroot/beryl
[06:38] <ajmitch> and I can't just do svn switch --relocate
[06:38] <Amaranth> yeah, you wanna know something really....odd...about that setup?
[06:38] <ajmitch> go ahead & scare me
[06:38] <imbrandon> here is what i have at the moment , i'm updating them now to 0.1.1 http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27934/
[06:38] <Amaranth> the metascape one is apparently the main SVN and the one on beryl-project.org is a mirror
[06:39] <Amaranth> the metascape one runs on Quinn_Storm's personal desktop
[06:39] <ajmitch> Amaranth: so why can't I do svn up now? :)
[06:39] <ajmitch> I see..
[06:39] <ajmitch> so if it's a mirror, why do they have different UUIDs?
[06:39] <Amaranth> I have no idea.
[06:39] <ajmitch> get them to use bzr
[06:39] <Amaranth> But they keep saying beryl-project.org's is a read-only mirror and that's not chaning.
[06:39] <Amaranth> Hehe.
[06:39] <ajmitch> then they can fork to their heart's content
[06:40] <Amaranth> They're coming to Mountain View, persuade them. :)
[06:40] <imbrandon> ajmitch / Amaranth are there any more packages on BerylOnEdgy than what i have http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27934/
[06:40] <Lathiat> mm montain view, if only it wasnt on the other side of the world
[06:40] <ajmitch> yay, a paid trip for bling in feisty
[06:40] <Lathiat> LCA is expensive enough on the other side of the country :)
[06:41] <Lathiat> oh wow beryl-project.org has a website now
[06:41] <ajmitch> imbrandon: there's other crack
[06:41] <Lathiat> it used to be just forums
[06:41] <Amaranth> imbrandon: They have a 'beryl' metapackage and split beryl-plugins into beryl-plugins and beryl-plugins-data (something about a lintian warning about a large /usr/share)
[06:42] <Amaranth> and beryl-dbus, dunno what that is
[06:42] <ajmitch> imbrandon: there's also updated nvidia beta drivers from Amaranth (probably dodgy as hell :) )
[06:42] <ajmitch> and some libxorg-sched-yield-hack0 thing that worries me
[06:42] <Amaranth> I've recently been told that does more harm then good.
[06:42] <ajmitch> that doesn't surprise me, given what it does
[06:42] <Amaranth> It's only for nvidia while using AIGLX (which no sane person would do if they care about performance)
[06:43] <ajmitch> nvidia+aiglx is stupid
[06:43] <Lathiat> beryl seems to be *really* unstable
[06:43] <Lathiat> compiz seemed to just break but it never crashed
[06:43] <ajmitch> Lathiat: but it's great! beryl-by-default for feisty!
[06:43] <Amaranth> ajmitch: It's not needed, nvidia provides the needed extension without aiglx
[06:43] <ajmitch> Amaranth: I know
[06:43] <Amaranth> yeah
[06:43] <ajmitch> Amaranth: but too many users don't
[06:43] <Lathiat> ajmitch: woo yeh!
[06:43] <whiprush> do you need to shut off the aiglx specifically if you're using the nvidia beta drivers? or does it just skip all that?
[06:43] <Amaranth> I've been meaning to remove that from the guide
[06:43] <ajmitch> hey whiprush!
[06:43] <whiprush> hi ajmitch!
[06:43] <Amaranth> whiprush: Nope, it's off by default.
[06:44] <whiprush> ajmitch: found a hotel
[06:44] <ajmitch> Amaranth: I thought it was turned on by default for awhile, at least
[06:44] <ajmitch> whiprush: sweeet
[06:44] <ajmitch> where is it?
[06:44] <imbrandon> heya whiprush
[06:44] <whiprush> about 5 minutes from the googleplex
[06:44] <whiprush> right off the interstate
[06:44] <ajmitch> whiprush: I'm on the same flight as mpt & infinity, as you may have seen
[06:44] <whiprush> I will send you the info when I confirm
[06:44] <ajmitch> great :)
[06:44] <whiprush> ajmitch: excellent.
[06:45] <whiprush> on the 4th?
[06:45] <ajmitch> so at least I'll have someone to talk to in the airport
[06:45] <ajmitch> yeah
[06:45] <ajmitch> we're all flying to auckland from different places before going on NZ8 to SFO
[06:45] <whiprush> nice
[06:46] <Amaranth> Oh, another really scary thing. People in #beryl-dev keep asking me for advice because they say I have "project management experience". ;)
[06:46] <imbrandon> Amaranth, hahaha
[06:47] <ajmitch> Amaranth: lucky you
[06:47] <Amaranth> And I'm the only developer of that project.
[06:48] <ajmitch> I've only run one project, and noone uses that code yet!
[06:49] <Amaranth> What is that?
[06:49] <rmjb> how long after I dput something will it show up on REVU?
[06:49] <imbrandon> ~5 min
[06:49] <rmjb> cool
[06:51] <rmjb> It got rejected... I'm supposed to ask you guys to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
[06:52] <ajmitch> rmjb: if you're in the group on launchpad
[06:52] <rmjb> yep
[06:52] <rmjb> I added myself earlier today... or yesterday in my case
[06:53] <ajmitch> syncing
[06:54] <LaserJock> ok, back to the land of reality
[06:54] <LaserJock> that AIGLX+beryl stuff reminded me of Alice in Wonderland
[06:55] <ajmitch> hah
[06:55] <imbrandon> lol
[06:55] <Amaranth> Heh
[06:56] <Amaranth> Once you set some same values for things it's pretty nice.
[06:56] <Amaranth> The default are utter crack though.
[06:56] <ajmitch> the defaults are for maximum bling effect
[06:57] <ajmitch> I'd rather have as little wobble as possible
[06:57] <ajmitch> & I don't really need cube spinning, raindrops on my desk, etc
[06:58] <rmjb> so after I upload something to REVU and you guys critique it and I fix and so on, is there any formal testing?
[06:58] <LaserJock> just by the MOTU
[06:59] <LaserJock> if we find it satisfactory to go into Universe we vote for it
[06:59] <imbrandon> oh wow this is really crackfull
[06:59] <ajmitch> imbrandon: hm?
[06:59] <ajmitch> do tell
[06:59] <imbrandon> the svn checkouts arent matching up
[06:59] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no kidding
[06:59] <rmjb> okay cool...
[06:59] <ajmitch> as I said, different UUIDs, they're not even the same repository
[07:00] <imbrandon> yea
[07:00] <ajmitch> it's like someone has done a complete separate import
[07:00] <imbrandon> probably, they probably dident know better
[07:00] <rmjb> ajmitch: good for the upload to REVU?
[07:01] <ajmitch> rmjb: go ahead
[07:01] <ajmitch> make sure you upload to revu, not ubuntu
[07:01] <ajmitch> imbrandon: see ^^ several lines ;)
[07:01] <imbrandon> looks up
[07:02] <imbrandon> hahahahaa
[07:03] <rmjb> thanks, it did go to ubuntu the last time
[07:06] <ajmitch> crimsun: how should I nicely reject bug 67666 ?
[07:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67666 in firefox "Tried to download a video from Google Video" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67666
[07:06] <ajmitch> I'm sure you must have a stock reply somewhere :)
[07:07] <crimsun> (doesn't actually crash here, however)
[07:07] <ajmitch> no, but it's a flash 9 issue
[07:07] <ajmitch> of course
[07:07] <imbrandon> hehe yea plays here too
[07:08] <imbrandon> weird al
[07:08] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: gotta love this thread title on the forums: "mathematica problem with XGL"
[07:08] <imbrandon> probably more to do with the beta ff , or they have 1000 extentions loaded
[07:08] <crimsun> ajmitch: a nice note regarding "Flash 9 being beta and completely unsupported in Ubuntu" is nice
[07:09] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: yes, I noticed that... It's great!
[07:09] <ajmitch> I just don't live on the edge enough
[07:09] <imbrandon> ... fluent in java script as well as klingon .... hahahahaha
[07:09] <ajmitch> I don't have beta nvidia drivers, beryl, or flash 9
[07:09] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You hadn't seen that before?
[07:09] <imbrandon> no, this is hilarious
[07:10] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's what Weird Al Yankovic is good for! Hilarity! And White & Nerdy is particularly good.
[07:10] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I've only got flash 9 because of that recipe site my wife *has* to go to :-)
[07:10] <imbrandon> and you tried beryl, welcome to the darkside LaserJock
[07:11] <LaserJock> noooooo
[07:11] <ajmitch> LaserJock: next you'll be installing imbrandon's luna themes
[07:11] <imbrandon> hahahaha
[07:12] <LaserJock> *Darth Vader voice* Luke .... I am your composite manager
[07:13] <imbrandon> LaserJock, .... TheMuso .... i am .....
[07:13] <imbrandon> bad pun /me stops
[07:13] <TheMuso> ?
[07:13] <imbrandon> s/Luke/TheMuso, as i said bad joke
[07:13] <LaserJock> shesh
[07:13] <TheMuso> Right.
[07:14] <Fujitsu> You missed a trailing slash there, imbrandon!
[07:14] <Fujitsu> GUILTY!
[07:14] <imbrandon> omg your as bad as elkbuntu , she said the same thing yesterday, my answer is irc sed needs no closing slash
[07:14] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:14] <elkbuntu> that was longer ago than yesterday
[07:15] <imbrandon> i made the RFC yesterday for irc sed
[07:15] <imbrandon> err yea a few days ago heh
[07:15] <ajmitch> imbrandon: is it on the standards track?
[07:15] <Fujitsu> Guilty, I say.
[07:15] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I tried KDE yesterday, beryl today, I have no idea what I'll do tomorrow ;-)
[07:15] <ajmitch> imbrandon: or is it just a draft at this stage?
[07:15] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea, RFC is in the mail
[07:15] <imbrandon> hehe
[07:15] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: always lurking around in the shadows...
[07:16] <rmjb> LaserJock: Vista tomorrow!
[07:16] <LaserJock> rmjb: oh please no, don't give me nightmares
[07:16] <Fujitsu> This LUKS cryptsetup stuff is annoying to set up on an existing installation.. Gotta move all the data elsewhere :'(
[07:16] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, hush. you'll freak out the UDS attendees :
[07:16] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: like me?
[07:17] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, well you cant freak yourself out. you already know.
[07:17] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: for the desktop cd, not likely
[07:17] <imbrandon> i booted vista once .... http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/vista.jpg , long enough to take that shot, then formated
[07:17] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's already supported in debian
[07:17] <imbrandon> in d-i yea, not the live though i doubt, would be really hard
[07:17] <ajmitch> imbrandon: oh man, I only got a 1.0 on the Windows Experience Index in vmware
[07:17] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Well, it's not in the Ubuntu alternate installer at the moment...
[07:18] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: depends if kamion decides to de-simplify the alternate installer for it
[07:18] <imbrandon> ajmitch, thats a 3400+ with a high end nvidia card and still only got  a 2.0
[07:18] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, not too hard to do in Ubiquity, if they implement LVM and co. (which is meant to be happening in Feisty)
[07:18] <ajmitch> imbrandon: you need more RAM, perhaps :)
[07:18] <imbrandon> probably it only has 768 shared with video
[07:18] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: adding all the UI for setting it up makes it more complex
[07:18] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I gave the vista install 1.5GB in vmware
[07:19] <Fujitsu> Ask for genuine Microsoft software!
[07:19] <rmjb> cool, my upload made it to REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3346
[07:19] <LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm, I expected more :/
[07:19] <imbrandon> LaserJock, from ?
[07:19] <LaserJock> vista
[07:19] <LaserJock> I hadn't seen a screenshot before
[07:19] <imbrandon> ahh hehe i dident, honestly it reminds me ALOT of kde now
[07:19] <ajmitch> LaserJock: there's nothing special
[07:20] <imbrandon> only kde was first
[07:20] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I've got a screenshot as well if you want it
[07:20] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:20] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
[07:20] <ajmitch> I'll have to trim it down
[07:20] <LaserJock> I expected them to change the look
[07:20] <ajmitch> it's a fullscreen screenshot
[07:20] <LaserJock> the menu just looks like XP+bling
[07:21] <imbrandon> it actualy works really diffrent, nested menus
[07:21] <imbrandon> kinda a pita really
[07:21] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sorry, the screenshot I've got only has the login screen
[07:21] <LaserJock> np
[07:21] <imbrandon> like the spinx menu
[07:21] <ajmitch> fullscreen == 2880x1200 here
[07:21] <ajmitch> so it's a large png :)
[07:21] <LaserJock> well, I'll probably not be getting Vista
[07:22] <imbrandon> i'll be picking up osx 10.5 but not vista
[07:22] <LaserJock> next computer I'll buy will have OS X or Ubuntu on it :-)
[07:22] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:22] <Fujitsu> Guys, you can't deny that Vista is worth the $600! It's got a new version of Solitaire!
[07:22] <imbrandon> lol
[07:22] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, tempting
[07:22] <Fujitsu> And Inkball!
[07:23] <imbrandon> and chess titans
[07:23] <ajmitch> and it has better licensing!
[07:23] <LaserJock> if Ubuntu doesn't come up with an equally cool Solitaire I might be forced to move back
[07:23] <rmjb> hey LaserJock, if you get a chance, can you critique my upload to REVU?
[07:25] <LaserJock> rmjb: I don't quite get the versioning
[07:25] <LaserJock> I think maybe it needs to be 1.0.0.rc13-0ubuntu1
[07:26] <ajmitch> 1.0.0~rc13-0ubuntu1
[07:26] <LaserJock> ah, that looks better
[07:26] <ajmitch> don't break things when 1.0.0 comes out
[07:26] <Fujitsu> What ajmitch said, rather than what my comment on REVU said about a minute ago.
[07:26] <ajmitch> if you want to get this into edgy, it'd need a UVF exception
[07:26] <rmjb> the rc is from upstream, still needs a ~ instead of a - ?
[07:26] <ajmitch> yes
[07:27] <ajmitch> upstream can play silly with version numbers, but we can't
[07:27] <imbrandon> yes so when 1.0 proper comes out it will upgrade
[07:27] <rmjb> ok
[07:27] <imbrandon> other wise 1.0.0.rc13 > 1.0.0 but 1.0.0~rc13 < 1.0.0
[07:27] <imbrandon> rmjb, ^
[07:28] <rmjb> i c
[07:28] <ajmitch> imbrandon: got 0.1.1 whipped into shape? :)
[07:29] <imbrandon> ajmitch, bah i might have to just do a fresh backage using the /debian dir
[07:29] <ajmitch> imbrandon: please do
[07:29] <imbrandon> s/backage/package
[07:35] <LaserJock> imbrandon: you were  using an ubuntu dir? :-)
[07:36] <ajmitch> imbrandon: fixed them yet? ;)
[07:36] <LaserJock> are we there yet?
[07:36] <ajmitch> I'm losing faith in you...
[07:36] <imbrandon> zomg dir irl kthx bye .... heh
[07:36] <imbrandon> no i'm trying to find out the REAL svn atm
[07:36] <LaserJock> core-dev,  core-shmev
[07:37] <imbrandon> the svn i was using isnt there anymore
[07:37] <ajmitch> LaserJock: the users demand packages!
[07:37] <ajmitch> imbrandon: http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Compile/Sources
[07:37] <imbrandon> svn://metascape.afraid.org/svnroot/beryl/
[07:37] <ajmitch> that's the broken one
[07:38] <ajmitch> svn://svn.beryl-project.org/beryl/trunk/
[07:38] <rmjb> when you guys said "get this into edgy" you mean even after it's released? will the freeze be lifted after release or it stays?
[07:38] <imbrandon> yea but it isnt matching my old source, so i'm just redoing it
[07:39] <ajmitch> rmjb: not after release
[07:39] <rmjb> well dmraid is broken for edgy, this package fixes it (hopefully) so I hope it gets in some time
[07:39] <imbrandon> oh snap whats this bdoc crap now, are they trying to make a whole DE ?
[07:40] <imbrandon> bdock*
[07:40] <ajmitch> Hobbsee!!!
[07:40] <ajmitch> imbrandon: sure, why not?
[07:41] <Hobbsee> ajmitch!!!
[07:41] <LaserJock> "Run away!"
[07:41] <LaserJock> imbrandon: is that a beryl thing?
[07:41] <imbrandon> yea i'm sorting it out again
[07:41] <imbrandon> give me an hour or so i'll have something to poke at
[07:44] <rmjb> okay, new versioning of dmraid is in REVU...
[07:44] <imbrandon> oh wow , this is getting nuts, time to make one big debian package to generate all these
[07:44] <imbrandon> otherwise versioning will be hell
[07:45] <ajmitch> hey raphink
[07:45] <rmjb> crap, lintian gave an error
[07:45] <ajmitch> imbrandon: can't you use the tarballs instead of svn?
[07:45] <ajmitch> or do they not do tarballs?
[07:46] <imbrandon> i dont think there is tarball, leaste not last i looked
[07:46] <ajmitch> so they release, but don't release tarballs
[07:46] <ajmitch> how useful
[07:46] <imbrandon> yea
[07:46] <raphink> hi ajmitch
[07:47] <ajmitch> imbrandon: why do you need it as 1 source package?
[07:48] <imbrandon> well i dont need to, but if they are all released at the same time it just makes sense really
[07:49] <imbrandon> i was thinking kinda like mythplugins
[07:49] <rmjb> ajmitch: I put the version on dmraid as 1.0.0~rc13-0ubuntu1 but lintian complained... is this why the current version is 0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9-2ubuntu1?
[07:49] <ajmitch> because it didn't use to be supported
[07:50] <ajmitch> but it is supported in debian & ubuntu now (~ in versions)
[07:50] <imbrandon> e.g. ignore lintian on that error
[07:50] <rmjb> right
[07:50] <rmjb> thanks
[07:50] <LaserJock> well, what about keeping with the current upstream versioning?
[07:51] <ajmitch> you mean 0.9.9+1.0.0, etc?
[07:51] <ajmitch> it's an ugly workaround that ~ solves
[07:52] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:52] <LaserJock> but if debian's got 0.9.9+1.0.0 going should we diverge from that
[07:53] <rmjb> debian doesn't have rc13... which is needed to fix bug #54246
[07:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54246
[07:53] <imbrandon> if the current version is 0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9 and we're updating to rc13 then your right
[07:54] <rmjb> okay, reversion then...
[07:56] <ajmitch> Amaranth: is it always like this?
[07:57] <Amaranth> ajmitch: When Quinn is around it seems to be more hard development discussions
[07:57] <Amaranth> otherwise, yeah
[07:57] <ajmitch> ah, the future of feisty
[07:57] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i was kinda of the same thinking
[07:57] <LaserJock> why?
[07:57] <LaserJock> surely beryl isn't the future of Feisty
[07:58] <ajmitch> LaserJock: of course it is
[07:58] <ajmitch> sabdfl wants it
[07:58] <imbrandon> there is a spec for bery-by-default
[07:58] <LaserJock> well fine
[07:58] <imbrandon> beryl*
[07:58] <imbrandon> i really dont think it will fly just yet
[07:58] <LaserJock> what I'm saying is Feisty isn't the *only* thing in Fiesty
[07:59] <ajmitch> LaserJock: no, but it's a rather visible thing
[07:59] <LaserJock> as long as it has a switch to turn it off I'll be ok
[08:00] <Amaranth> I guess that means we have 4 months to rewrite it from scratch.
[08:00] <Amaranth> None of these guys really knows how to run a project like this.
[08:00] <imbrandon> an easy way to turn it "on" would be better imho than default
[08:00] <LaserJock> ajmitch: is zope installed by default in *buntu ?
[08:00] <ajmitch> LaserJock: of course not
[08:00] <LaserJock> imbrandon: +1
[08:01] <ajmitch> how many people do you know of that would ever need it?
[08:01] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but it is in main
[08:01] <ajmitch> zope3 is in main
[08:01] <LaserJock> I was confused by that
[08:01] <LaserJock> I didn't think it was
[08:01] <ajmitch> zope2.9 is in universe
[08:01] <ajmitch> they have quite different APIs
[08:01] <ajmitch> most stuff for 2.x won't run on 3.x without porting
[08:01] <LaserJock> so it's in main, just not installed
[08:02] <ajmitch> yes
[08:02] <ajmitch> like apache is in main, but not installed
[08:02] <ajmitch> or any other daemon
[08:03] <whiprush> surely we all just get mjg59 stone hammered for most of the week and he'll fix the beryl problems.
[08:03] <ajmitch> whiprush: surely it'll take a lot more than that
[08:03] <whiprush> A man can dream.
[08:03] <LaserJock> neato, my first blog spam :/
[08:04] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yay
[08:04] <Lathiat> every time i tell someone how the reason i still use livejournal is because i never get comment spam etc
[08:04] <Lathiat> the next day i get one
[08:04] <Lathiat> 3 of 3 on that
[08:04] <Lathiat> and thats the only 3 times i've ever got a comment spam
[08:05] <LaserJock> I got a homeloans offer in spanish
[08:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I see the zope question came up in #edubuntu
[08:06] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:06] <ajmitch> the most popular CMS for zope (plone) is also only in universe now
[08:06] <LaserJock> was plone in Main before?
[08:06] <ajmitch> zope is slow to support newer python versions
[08:07] <ajmitch> it was for awhile in breezy, not sure about dapper
[08:07] <Lathiat> universe in dapper
[08:07] <ajmitch> figures
[08:07] <ajmitch> probably demoted in dapper or breezy due to python2.3
[08:08] <ajmitch> I wonder how well my laptop will play with projectors now
[08:08] <ajmitch> using the modesetting branch for the i810 driver
[08:08] <imbrandon> Amaranth, ping
[08:08] <Amaranth> imbrandon: pong
[08:08] <whiprush> ajmitch: wait until you see keithp's X demo
[08:09] <whiprush> it's /awesome/
[08:09] <ajmitch> whiprush: yeah, I'd love to see stuff that windows has had for 10+ years :)
[08:09] <imbrandon> Amaranth, make sure there isnt 0.1.1 tarballs please before i upload these ( i'm not speaking in there unless i have to )
[08:09] <Amaranth> imbrandon: isn't 0.1.1 tarballs, what?
[08:09] <whiprush> ajmitch: 1995 has left the building!
[08:09] <ajmitch> Amaranth: beryl crack
[08:09] <Amaranth> whiprush: input/display hotplug?
[08:10] <whiprush> output
[08:10] <Amaranth> ajmitch: yeah, i know, i just don't understand what he means :P
[08:10] <ajmitch> whiprush: we have some good catchup to do
[08:10] <whiprush> I believe DanielS is doing the input stuff
[08:10] <whiprush> ajmitch: yeah.
[08:10] <Amaranth> xrandr++ or something
[08:10] <imbrandon> e.g if they make tarballs or if there is only svn
[08:10] <ajmitch> Amaranth: are there beryl 0.1.1 tarballs released?
[08:10] <Burgundavia> whiprush: yes, daniels is doing the input stuff
[08:10] <ajmitch> hey Burgundavia
[08:10] <Amaranth> I think they just create a tag for a release then make packages
[08:10] <Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
[08:11] <ajmitch> Amaranth: beat them round, please
[08:11] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: xrandr was merged into trunk, no?
[08:11] <Amaranth> and include stuff in the packages that isn't in the repo.... &%*#
[08:11] <imbrandon> wonderfull *rolls eyes*
[08:11] <Amaranth> Well, I think for 0.1 it was just debian/changelog things
[08:12] <Amaranth> In SVN it was 0.1.0-1, in the packages it was 0.1.0-0ubuntu1
[08:12] <Amaranth> fun crap like that
[08:12] <ajmitch> imbrandon: put on the schedule for MV - "how to be a reponsible upstream"
[08:12] <imbrandon> WHAT !?!
[08:12] <imbrandon> ajmitch, no doubt
[08:12] <Amaranth> ajmitch: Like I said, none of them has any idea how to run a project like this.
[08:13] <imbrandon> they made a fork of a project and have no idea how to make a project !?!
[08:13] <Burgundavia> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2006-October/019007.html
[08:13] <Amaranth> And, the worst part about beryl is something it shares with compiz: the frame-limiter stuff at the core of the entire system is horribly buggy
[08:13] <ajmitch> imbrandon: you expect any less?
[08:13] <imbrandon> man i'm starting to see why ajmitch has the attitude he has , sad part is i'm adapting it
[08:13] <imbrandon> heh
[08:13] <ajmitch> imbrandon: sorry for it to rub off
[08:13] <imbrandon> ajmitch, dont be, its warented it seems
[08:14] <Amaranth> Neither one of these projects is even close to making a sane default window manager.
[08:14] <Burgundavia> you seen Marks other crack project for Fiesty?
[08:14] <Amaranth> Although Redhat seems to be funding some people to work on compiz now so I have some hope for it.
[08:14] <Burgundavia> tab-consistency
[08:14] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: which one?
[08:14] <ajmitch> oh that's been on there for awhile
[08:14] <Amaranth> Beryl is just the toy I use until the real solution comes along. :)
[08:14] <ajmitch> at least a year or so
[08:14] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea i sat in on the voip for that one in edgy paris
[08:14] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: it has been bumped to high
[08:14] <ajmitch> yay
[08:14] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: and?
[08:15] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, its really not as bad as it sounds iirc
[08:15] <Amaranth> Doesn't Firefox 2 actually basically copy GTK+'s tab style?
[08:15] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: yes
[08:15] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: FF 1.5
[08:15] <Amaranth> And the spec is to make them all work like Firefox 1.5?
[08:15] <Burgundavia> has crap trab control
[08:15] <Burgundavia> yes, but I think the spec is odl
[08:15] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: going to lurk in there, are you? :)
[08:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: for a while
[08:16] <ajmitch> so how unhappy will they be if imbrandon uploads packages to feisty right before MV? ;)
[08:16] <imbrandon> heheh /me plans to
[08:16] <Amaranth> "This Week In Features: Non-GPL repo added to emerald-themer"
[08:16] <Amaranth> *boggle*
[08:17] <ajmitch> imbrandon: see how much trouble you get in
[08:17] <ajmitch> Amaranth: classic
[08:17] <imbrandon> Amaranth, wow
[08:17] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: umm...
[08:17] <imbrandon> whom from beryl is comming to mv ?
[08:17] <LaserJock> what does that mean?
[08:17] <ajmitch> imbrandon: quinn storm at least
[08:17] <ajmitch> I don't know who else
[08:18] <imbrandon> LaserJock, it means they are using windows copyrighted images and plan to host them internationaly
[08:18] <elkbuntu> DBO will be there too
[08:18] <ajmitch> wonderful
[08:18] <Amaranth> Wow, cracktastic, they have a new animation thingy that sets your window on fire and burns it out of existence when you close it.
[08:18] <Lathiat> lol
[08:18] <Lathiat> thats awesome
[08:18] <Lathiat> well it will be the first 3 times you do it
[08:18] <Amaranth> heh
[08:18] <imbrandon> [00:55]  <cyberorg> themes would be free licence, but they my infringe copyright laws of some countires
[08:18] <imbrandon> [00:56]  <shawn_home> copying the look exactly? even if its not the original file?
[08:18] <imbrandon> [00:56]  <cyberorg> as we are not lawyers we dont know, so all the themes that fall under 'grey' catagory would be hosted on server in norway
[08:18] <imbrandon> [00:57]  <cyberorg> whoever wants them can download them
[08:19] <Burgundavia> I love how the foucus is totally on features
[08:19] <Lathiat> yeh thats quite obviouus
[08:19] <Lathiat> i tried beryl
[08:19] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: but they have the disclaimer there that 90% of it is bugfixes, you know
[08:19] <Lathiat> it crashed every couple minutes
[08:19] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: you fracking serious?
[08:19] <imbrandon> wishlist bugs for new features
[08:19] <Lathiat> compiz OTOH seemed to work ok
[08:19] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: you know me
[08:19] <Lathiat> some of the plugins went a bit nuts
[08:19] <Lathiat> but generally "worked"
[08:19] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: yes
[08:19] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, theres a 90% chance he could be
[08:20] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: very likely
[08:20] <imbrandon> wishlist bugs for new features are considered bugfixes ?!?
[08:20] <rmjb> hey LaserJock can you take another look at the dmraid in revu if you can?
[08:20] <imbrandon> wow this is getting better by the minute
[08:20] <LaserJock> rmjb: not sure if I can tonight, but I'll put it on my todo list ;-)
[08:20] <rmjb> thanks
[08:21] <Amaranth> Honestly I think we should focus on compiz.
[08:21] <Burgundavia> so, how do we redirect that beryl to shipping default compzi?
[08:21] <Amaranth> Tweak it, tune it, make it shine, ship it.
[08:21] <Burgundavia> that is where everybody else is going
[08:21] <ajmitch> Amaranth: so do I, but they've already invited DBO & quinn storm along...
[08:21] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: convince mark
[08:21] <Burgundavia> ugh
[08:21] <imbrandon> the autogen.sh looks for actual package dependancys instead of just making a configure script
[08:21] <whiprush> we vote you Corey.
[08:21] <Burgundavia> the other thing todo is to drown the system in bug reports if we do ship beryl by default
[08:21] <Amaranth> imbrandon: Holy. Shit.
[08:21] <ajmitch> it'd be harder to convince him at UDS with beryl people there in the room
[08:22] <Burgundavia> whiprush: I am no more successful than others
[08:22] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it gets better by the minute
[08:22] <imbrandon> Amaranth, my thoughts exactly
[08:22] <Burgundavia> imbrandon:, Amaranth: are you guys documenting every single problem int eh package?
[08:22] <Burgundavia> we are going to need a huge portfolio of problems to stop Mark
[08:22] <Amaranth> Burgundavia: I'm thinking we should.
[08:22] <ajmitch> imbrandon: which autogen.sh?
[08:22] <whiprush> remember when all we had to worry about was naked people?
[08:23] <imbrandon> ajmitch, harder, i would think it would be easier, easier to see the BS irl than on IRC or blogs
[08:23] <imbrandon> ajmitch, from svn
[08:23] <Lathiat> whatever happened to ubuntu-calendar
[08:23] <Amaranth> I'll slap it all up on the beryl forums, get flamed to death for trying to point out problems, etc. :P
[08:23] <Lathiat> it was the near-perfect excuse to have mostly naked people on your desktop
[08:23] <Lathiat> "well it just comes with my distro"
[08:23] <ajmitch> Amaranth: packaging issues, or upstream source issues?
[08:23] <ajmitch> imbrandon: which one, there are several
[08:23] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: the old naked people ones
[08:24] <imbrandon> beryl-core one was where i started
[08:24] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: better place is that spec
[08:24] <Amaranth> ajmitch: upstream source and packaging
[08:24] <ajmitch> imbrandon: beryl-core's autogen.sh looks sane
[08:24] <Amaranth> ajmitch: and general project management
[08:24] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it just does the standard autofoo & runs configure
[08:24] <ajmitch> many autogen.sh scripts do that
[08:24] <ajmitch> Amaranth: will you be at UDS to fight alongside us?
[08:25] <Amaranth> ajmitch: Sadly, no.
[08:25] <Amaranth> my sponsorship was declined
[08:25] <LaserJock> I'll be there, but I won't be much help
[08:25] <ajmitch> unfortunate
[08:25] <LaserJock> yeah, that stinks
[08:25] <ajmitch> so we have to document all this crack
[08:25] <imbrandon> Amaranth, its all your fault ( sarcasim )
[08:25] <Amaranth> hehe
[08:26] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: you were declined, yet beryl is so "critical" and you wrote willow-ng?
[08:26] <ajmitch> Amaranth: and you still stick in there?
[08:26] <Amaranth> Burgundavia: bling outweighs all :P
[08:26] <ajmitch> don't we know it
[08:26] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: bling is fucking useless
[08:26] <imbrandon> bling is nice when it works and is stable
[08:26] <Amaranth> Yeah...
[08:26] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: got any ideas for extra bling for my n-a code?
[08:26] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: working
[08:27] <ChaosFan> i/wg 34
[08:27] <Burgundavia> that is the only kind of bling that gets me off
[08:27] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: yeah, having the code working is a bonus
[08:27] <Amaranth> I was actually pretty surprised I got declined seeing how I'm probably closer then most of the people that were asking for sponsorship and my SoC work and such.
[08:27] <whiprush> heh
[08:27] <ajmitch> but beryl manages fine without that
[08:27] <Burgundavia> the kind of get when it takes one click to just make it work
[08:27] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: what do tickets cost?
[08:27] <ajmitch> I can do it in maybe 3-4 clicks
[08:27] <ajmitch> not 1 at the moment
[08:27] <Amaranth> I dunno, I think it was $300 USD round trip
[08:27] <ajmitch> since it doesn't autodetect the world
[08:28] <ajmitch> wasabi has had some useful ideas for it
[08:28] <ajmitch> maybe I can sit down with mpt in the airport & we can hack up some nice UI :)
[08:29] <rmjb> I'm looking for another reviewer for dmraid in revu, if any motu can take a look and email me that'd be great
[08:29] <rmjb> g'night all, time for sleep
[08:29] <ajmitch> night
[08:30] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: UI for beryl or for n-a?
[08:30] <ajmitch> for n-a code, of course
[08:30] <ajmitch> useful stuff
[08:30] <ajmitch> I'm not going to waste my time working on beryl
[08:30] <LaserJock> *gasp*
[08:31] <ajmitch> LaserJock: having decent integration will sell a lot better in the business world than wobbly windows
[08:31] <LaserJock> heck yeah
[08:31] <imbrandon> ajmitch, +1
[08:32] <imbrandon> lol
[08:32] <imbrandon> fuzzy logic auth with wobbly windows for user-centric web2.0 intergration ?
[08:32] <ajmitch> fuzzy logic is such an old buzzword
[08:32] <imbrandon> heh
[08:33] <LaserJock> it should have nanotechnology in there though
[08:33] <imbrandon> ajmitch, i guess i'm stuck in the 90's on buzzwords
[08:33] <ajmitch> LaserJock: grid computing!
[08:33] <LaserJock> I love throwing in the buzz words for grant proposals
[08:34] <imbrandon> nano grid computers that generate ajax xml code on the fly for the community webspace ?
[08:34] <LaserJock> chemical and biological threat agent detection via nanosensors works pretty well for me :-)
[08:34] <imbrandon> s/webspace/blogsphere
[08:36] <LaserJock> wobbly internet, it's all the rage
[08:41] <Amaranth> Hey, anyone going to Mountain View got some space on the floor of their hotel room available? :)
[08:45] <imbrandon> ajmitch, did you finaly get a hotel ?
[08:45] <ajmitch> Amaranth: wish I could say yes - I think there'll already be 3 in the room I'm in
[08:46] <imbrandon> Amaranth, i wouldent mind but i dunno whom i'm with
[08:46] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I think so
[08:46] <ajmitch> we'll see how good it is
[08:46] <imbrandon> i guess it wont be decided till we get there
[08:46] <imbrandon> i dunno for sure tbh
[08:47] <Amaranth> Unless you want to be more than 10mi away all the hotels are either expensive or bad looking
[08:47] <LaserJock> for Paris they sent room assignments like a week ahead
[08:47] <Amaranth> This is just going by pictures
[08:48] <ajmitch> imbrandon: the one you're at is 10 miles away :)
[08:48] <imbrandon> http://www.wildpalmshotel.com
[08:48] <imbrandon> seems to be the one i'm at
[08:49] <LaserJock> yeah, I can't believe it is so far away
[08:50] <LaserJock> although that area is mostly residential
[08:50] <Amaranth> 4.93 mi
[08:50] <Amaranth> according to expedia
[08:50] <ajmitch> whiprush: what was the hotel you found?
[08:50] <Amaranth> $102.47/night for 1 person :P
[08:51] <Amaranth> and they room "package" is called "WiFi King Room", that worries me for some reason
[08:52] <imbrandon> lol
[08:53] <Amaranth> their own website says $69/night for that room
[08:53] <LaserJock> well, keep in mind that all of Mountain View has wifi ;-)
[08:53] <Amaranth> no doubt
[08:53] <ajmitch> except the hotel you're in
[08:53] <Amaranth> lmao
[08:53] <ajmitch> which is well outside the MV coverage area
[08:54] <imbrandon> ouch
[08:54] <Amaranth> how is that?
[08:54] <imbrandon> dont say that
[08:54] <Amaranth> it's 5 miles away from google
[08:54] <ajmitch> the wild palms hotel is in sunnyvale, not MV
[08:54] <Amaranth> oh, ouch
[08:55] <LaserJock> right
[08:55] <LaserJock> but if you stay in MV it's free internet, wahoo
[08:56] <imbrandon> but in the evenings at the room no internet ? that gonna bite
[08:56] <LaserJock> why no internet?
[08:57] <LaserJock> does it say that?
[08:57] <imbrandon> sunnyvale != MV
[08:57] <LaserJock> sure, but the hotel probably has internet
[08:57] <imbrandon> it says there internet in the business center ( e.g a room with 3 computers ) says nothing about in room access or wifi
[08:57] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:58] <imbrandon> http://www.jdvhospitality.com/hotels/services/20
[08:59] <ajmitch> sabdfl might sort out something
[08:59] <LaserJock> even Paris had internet
[08:59] <Amaranth> the room itself is advertised as "WiFi King"
[08:59] <Amaranth> so it'd better have wifi :P
[09:00] <LaserJock> Amaranth: no that short for Wide Filters, for the coffee pot ;-)
[09:00] <Amaranth> hehe
[09:00] <imbrandon> haha
[09:01] <imbrandon> ahh well i guess it does say : Deluxe guestrooms feature all of the above and high speed Internet access
[09:01] <ajmitch> but at what cost?
[09:01] <imbrandon> right, thats what i was thinking
[09:01] <ajmitch> I suppose it's not NZ
[09:01] <ajmitch> so it won't be horrendously expensive
[09:01] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:02] <LaserJock> in Paris it was something like $15/night
[09:02] <LaserJock> but we got it for free
[09:03] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if Mark paid for it or what
[09:04] <imbrandon> probably
[09:04] <imbrandon> just got included with the group discount
[09:04] <imbrandon> i'm sure
[09:05] <ajmitch> E: libvirt_0.1.8-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
[09:05] <ajmitch> hehe
[09:05] <imbrandon> heh
[09:05] <ajmitch> we'll need to update lintian soon
[09:05] <imbrandon> yea not 3/4 the way through the cycle like edgy
[09:06] <imbrandon> ( on tiber )
[09:06] <LaserJock> tiber still does it for edgy doesn't it?
[09:07] <imbrandon> LaserJock, probably
[09:07] <imbrandon> havent checked in a while
[09:07] <LaserJock> we just got to Dapper
[09:07] <ajmitch> so who plans to upgrade to feisty as soon as it opens & ride out the syncs?
[09:08] <imbrandon> i'll try it on one computer, always do
[09:08] <LaserJock> I always say no, but that only lasts for a while
[09:08] <imbrandon> just not a prodution box
[09:08] <LaserJock> I was planning on skipping edgy
[09:08] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:08] <LaserJock> but well, it's hard to test things if you don't
[09:10] <Amaranth> I tend to switch as soon as the build chain stuff gets somewhat settle (new libc, gcc, etc)
[09:10] <minghua> If I get my laptop set up, I'll follow feisty
[09:11] <imbrandon> i dunno if my laptop will be able to follow feisty, theres a spec to drop ppc support :(
[09:12] <LaserJock> yeah, that would be a little harsh
[09:12] <LaserJock> ppc has been gone less then a year
[09:13] <LaserJock> from Apple
[09:13] <imbrandon> yea i see it happening , just not /this/ round
[09:13] <imbrandon> unless someone else like ibm pumps out desktop ppc machines
[09:13] <imbrandon> not just servers
[09:14] <Amaranth> i can't see an "enterprise" distro that offers a server version dropping ppc ever
[09:14] <Amaranth> IBM makes some kickass POWER5 servers, no?
[09:14] <imbrandon> but thats not gonna happen, we'll drop ppc in feisty+1 and pickup cell in feisty+2
[09:14] <imbrandon> Amaranth, yea the server deritive, i'm talking ubuntu
[09:14] <imbrandon> the desktop distro
[09:15] <Fujitsu> cell?
[09:15] <LaserJock> imbrandon: we have a server version though
[09:15] <LaserJock> also sparc
[09:15] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea but its a derivative just like kubuntu, like edubuntu chooses not to make a livecd, deritives can do as they wish
[09:15] <imbrandon> kubuntu /could/ go dvd only etc
[09:15] <imbrandon> ( not that it will )
[09:16] <imbrandon> ubuntu-server will keep ppc becouse of ibm
[09:16] <imbrandon> but there is no desktop ppc's anymore
[09:16] <LaserJock> yeah, but you can't just remove ppc support from the archives if ubuntu-server still uses it
[09:16] <LaserJock> you can't separate desktop and server in the repos very well
[09:16] <imbrandon> LaserJock, right, but canonical dosent have to support it
[09:17] <imbrandon> kinda like hppa and sparc build
[09:17] <LaserJock> who cares about canonical :-)
[09:17] <imbrandon> i'm not saying it would get droped from the repos
[09:17] <LaserJock> I can't imagine Ubuntu dropping ppc from the archives any time in the near future
[09:18] <imbrandon> but it could very well move to unsupported
[09:18] <ajmitch> it would just get demoted to ports status
[09:18] <imbrandon> like sparc and hppa
[09:18] <LaserJock> ah well, that makes sense
[09:18] <ajmitch> like ia64, etc
[09:18] <Burgundavia> you know, https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/bullet-proof-x and https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/beryl-by-default are mutually exclusive states
[09:18] <imbrandon> right exactly
[09:18] <ajmitch> imbrandon: sparc is official for the server
[09:18] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
[09:18] <LaserJock> I don't really think of supported as == Canonical support
[09:18] <LaserJock> I think of it as Ubuntu support
[09:18] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea and ppc would likely stay offical on the server also but not on the desktop
[09:19] <Lathiat> hrm mark regd the beryl by default spec
[09:19] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: not necessarily
[09:19] <Lathiat> i see what all the fuss is about
[09:19] <ajmitch> Lathiat: exactly
[09:19] <imbrandon> Lathiat, yea
[09:19] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: one is for the X server to always come up
[09:19] <imbrandon> so basicly all the devs will have to show him why not
[09:19] <Fujitsu> Beryl... by default!?
[09:19] <LaserJock> why don't we just make Mark be the assignee :-)
[09:19] <Fujitsu> Erm, this is one thing that nobody is going to agree with Mark on...
[09:19] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, we've been lamenting that for hours now
[09:20] <Fujitsu> I didn't know it was him that registered that spec.
[09:20] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, you missed about 3 hours of convo
[09:20] <Fujitsu> I presumed it was just some random person who walked out of nowhere.
[09:20] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: if it were someone else, then it wouldn't matter nearly as much
[09:20] <Fujitsu> Of course!
[09:20] <ajmitch> we could just laugh them off
[09:20] <ajmitch> in a nice, CoC-compliant way
[09:20] <Lathiat> i mean in an ideal world thatd be great
[09:20] <imbrandon> LaserJock, i mean more it move to the ia64 or hppa status , not "removed" from the repos
[09:20] <Fujitsu> (and I may have taken ages about it, but I did finally get my encrypted /home/fujitsu going)
[09:20] <Lathiat> but i dont see beryl anywhere near default-making :\
[09:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I could see that
[09:21] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, hppa never actually appeared in the Edgy repos, so that's not really a good example.
[09:21] <Fujitsu> Lathiat: Sure it is. It'll make Ubuntu more stable than ever!
[09:22] <LaserJock> like how 2 negatives make a positive :-)
[09:22] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, you mean beryl isnt bullet-proof ?!?

[09:23] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: like butch cassidy and the sundance kid
[09:23] <ajmitch> imbrandon: now now, you're sounding as bitter as I do
[09:23] <imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe

[09:23] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, you have anything you need off horatio, i think i'm going to pull it down for ~24 hours for some network rearraging
[09:24] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I've not been using it much lately (school stuff is taking priority), and I don't need anything off it.
[09:24] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: whatchya doing with it?
[09:24] <imbrandon> kk
[09:24] <Fujitsu> (and who is the `We' Mark refers to in that spec? I don't see anybody else official clamouring for it.)
[09:24] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: creating a package
[09:24] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: royal
[09:25] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia, probably.
[09:27] <imbrandon> zomg
[09:27] <imbrandon> spam subject of the day: "Beliefnet: Motivation from Mr. T"
[09:27] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: rocking
[09:28] <ajmitch> silly me, that's why it's not calling dh_pycentral
[09:28] <ajmitch> no distutils magic
[09:29] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I pity the fool that uses Mr. T for spam ;-)
[09:30] <imbrandon> i want a new mac book pro, i think i'm gonna sell my lappy after MTV and get a new one
[09:30] <imbrandon> if possible
[09:30] <ajmitch> imbrandon: buy me a laptop too, will you?
[09:30] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:30] <LaserJock> I'd be stuck with a mac book
[09:30] <LaserJock> I'm no pro :(
[09:31] <imbrandon> hehe well even a mac book, something faster than 1.5ghz
[09:31] <imbrandon> and a tad more ram
[09:31] <imbrandon> and i'd be happy
[09:31] <ajmitch> but a new one would be nice :)
[09:31] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:31] <LaserJock> I need one
[09:32] <LaserJock> my wife is going to want this one back one of these days
[09:32] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:33] <dholbach> good morning
[09:33] <ajmitch> hey dholbach
[09:33] <imbrandon> heya dholbach
[09:34] <LaserJock> hi dholbach
[09:34] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I just realized, you really should be in bed
[09:35] <imbrandon> heh not for another few hours
[09:35] <dholbach> hi ajmitch, imbrandon, LaserJock - how's it going?
[09:35] <ajmitch> good, how are you?
[09:36] <LaserJock> dholbach: gut, und du?
[09:40] <dholbach> LaserJock: haha - I'm fine... just need to wake up 100% :)
[09:50] <Lathiat> haha
[09:50] <Lathiat> -devel
[09:51] <LaserJock> what?
[09:51] <Fujitsu> Lathiat: it is GREAT!
[09:51] <imbrandon> [02:49]  <Administrator> 2.6.18 is already out, when will this be uploaded to edgy?
[09:51] <imbrandon> [02:49]  <fabbione> edgy is about to be released in 4 days.. there will be no .18
[09:51] <imbrandon> [02:50]  <Administrator> you guys releasing edgy while people have kernel panics?
[09:52] <Fujitsu> [17:51:59]  <Administrator> I need to deliver 500 pc running edgy
[09:52] <Fujitsu> [17:52:09]  <tfheen> Administrator: now, please let us concentrate on the release.  There will be no changes to the kernel in edgy.
[09:52] <Fujitsu> [17:52:10]  <Administrator> they all have via chipsets
[09:53] <imbrandon> joejaxx, you know kernel freeze was quite a while back ( and if your delivering 500pc's ) i would sugest a LTS release like dapper
[09:54] <Fujitsu> ... what's this got to do with him?
[09:54] <imbrandon> joejaxx == administrator , diffrent nicks
[09:55] <Lathiat> 15:52 -!- Administrator [n=Administ@81.58.38.138]  has quit ["Leaving"] 
[09:55] <Lathiat> wouldnt hav ethought so?
[09:55] <ajmitch> oh well
[09:55] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, how do you know?
[09:56] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i was arround when he registered administrator, i have talked to him for montns about fluxbuntu
[09:56] <Lathiat> well hes back
[09:56] <Lathiat> if you want to reissue the comment
[09:56] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, you realise that a lot of people use Windows? And Administrator is a default username there?
[09:57] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yes, but joejaxx owns the nick afaik
[09:57] <imbrandon> thus i figured it was him
[09:57] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, him owning it proves what? Administrator wasn't identified...
[09:57] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, not a damn thing, i said figured
[09:57] <imbrandon> not know for sure
[09:58] <imbrandon> you asked how i knew i told you
[09:58] <imbrandon> whats with the 3rd degree
[09:58] <imbrandon> ?
[09:58] <gnomefreak> he is on joejaxx atm
[09:58] <imbrandon> jez man
 joejaxx == administrator , diffrent nicks
[09:58] <Fujitsu> That's pretty definitive!
[09:59] <imbrandon> yes Fujitsu joejaxx owns that nick
[09:59] <imbrandon> [02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-            Nickname: administrator
[09:59] <imbrandon> [02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-          Registered: 8 weeks 3 days (4h 2m 58s) ago
[09:59] <imbrandon> [02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-           Last Seen: 1 week 6 days (10h 22m 44s) ago (joejaxx is online)
[09:59] <imbrandon> [02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-   Last Seen Address: i=joejaxx@ubuntu/member/joejaxx
[09:59] <minghua> calm down, guys
[10:01] <imbrandon> i'm fine, i just dident see the third degree, about "how i knew" hehe
[10:01] <LaserJock> what is the technical description of what a md5sum is?
[10:02] <minghua> LaserJock: RFC 1321 (as said in md5sum(1) man page)?
[10:02] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: you mean a secure data hashing algorithm?
[10:02] <imbrandon> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1321.html
[10:02] <LaserJock> ok, maybe "technical" wasn't the right term :-)
[10:02] <Fujitsu> The proper term?
[10:02] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:03] <imbrandon> MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm
[10:03] <imbrandon> #5
[10:03] <LaserJock> ok, how about, what is the description
[10:04] <imbrandon> The
[10:04] <imbrandon>    algorithm takes as input a message of arbitrary length and produces
[10:04] <imbrandon>    as output a 128-bit "fingerprint" or "message digest" of the input.
[10:04] <LaserJock> I know md5sum and sha1sums look at checksums, but I'm not sure what that means
[10:05] <imbrandon> that what you wanted?
[10:06] <LaserJock> not really, but sorta :-)
[10:06] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:06] <imbrandon> i'm just quoting the url from above
[10:08] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, heh. a slow one at that
[10:09] <imbrandon> just a little
[10:09] <imbrandon> lol
[10:10] <imbrandon> arg
[10:10] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: that's pretty low :-)
[10:10] <Fujitsu> Ah, but they're PIRATED Windows CDs, which is integral to the next part of my plan.
[10:10] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, he didnt specify version
[10:10] <imbrandon> i'll just add them to the AOL cd collection
[10:11] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: true
[10:11] <Fujitsu> You're stuffed now!
[10:11] <LaserJock> haha
[10:11] <imbrandon> they make good christmass tree ornaments , but thats probably against the EULA
[10:11] <imbrandon> 1-800-r-u-legit
[10:11] <Fujitsu> That could be it.
[10:12] <Fujitsu> I have a Windows 95 Certificate of Authenticity around here somewhere...
[10:12] <Fujitsu> Ah!
[10:12] <imbrandon> MS promoting good spelling
[10:12] <Fujitsu> VB4 one... that should have it.
[10:12] <LaserJock> "By using this CD as a festive holiday decoration device you are agreeing to our EULA which in short requires you to hand over any future derivative decoration devices"
[10:12] <imbrandon> LaserJock, hahahaha
[10:13] <imbrandon> probably one about not whiskey tumbler coasters too in the EULA
[10:14] <imbrandon> ( you may not buy stuff on ebay while intoxicated )
[10:15] <LaserJock> "By using this CD as a alcoholic beverage spill protection device you agree to transfer the copyright to any creative work you create while drinking said beverage."
[10:15] <imbrandon> lol
[10:15] <LaserJock> darn, I should work for the MS legal department
[10:16] <LaserJock> what a waste
[10:16] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: you really shoudl.
[10:16] <Fujitsu> *should
[10:17] <LaserJock> nah, I think chemistry is better for my health and conscience
[10:17] <imbrandon> :)
[10:18] <LaserJock> although the redmond campus is in a rather nice area
[10:19] <LaserJock> hmm, that's weird. I just realized I have relatives that live almost walking distance from Google, MS, and Adobe
[10:20] <imbrandon> lol
[10:20] <phanatic> morning
[10:20] <LaserJock> good thing I'm here to warn them when the FLOSS stampede begins :-)
[10:21] <imbrandon> moins
[10:21] <imbrandon> LaserJock, haha
[10:22] <imbrandon> 3 more hours till i can crank amarok ( everyone is asleep )
[10:23] <imbrandon> how do you die temporarly ?
[10:23] <imbrandon> [03:21]  <NewdleBot> imbrandon died, temporarily... This terrible calamity has slowed them 0 days, 01:26:30 from level 46.
[10:23] <imbrandon> [03:21]  <NewdleBot> imbrandon reaches next level in 1 day, 01:28:12.
[10:24] <LaserJock> well, you see, you are just mostly dead
[10:26] <imbrandon> heh
[10:27] <LaserJock> I think I'll have to start a scripting language based on The Princess Bride
[10:29] <LaserJock> ah, and instead of pointer I'd have pits of despair
[10:29] <imbrandon> LaserJock, haha http://www.boingboing.net/2006/10/22/pot_grown_in_a_pc.html , do they have meth lab case mods in reno ? hehehe
[10:31] <LaserJock> imbrandon: no, not unless they come out with a lowrider version of that case ;-)
[10:31] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:31] <LaserJock> with big rims
[10:32] <LaserJock> imbrandon: that would make an interesting science fair entry :-)
[10:33] <LaserJock> "Technology in the Everyday Life"
[10:33] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:38] <minghua> we have an angry speex upstream maintainer
[10:38] <LaserJock> yeah, I just read that
[10:40] <imbrandon> yea i read that too, if its just a patch might be good for SRU
[10:40] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: the speex binary is in Universe according to madison
[10:40] <Lathiat> SRU/
[10:40] <LaserJock> Stable Release Update
[10:40] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: the source is in main.
[10:41] <Fujitsu> And the source is what matters, is it not?
[10:41] <LaserJock> maybe, maybe not
[10:41] <LaserJock> I guess
[10:41] <Lathiat> its a little dependant
[10:41] <Lathiat> generally yes that matters
[10:41] <Fujitsu> I find it rather silly that there is that split, 'cause we can't do a thing about it if the source is in main.
[10:42] <Fujitsu> And core-devs are unlikely to touch universe stuff...
[10:42] <Fujitsu> So speex is stuffed.
[10:42] <Lathiat> well a motu could co-ordinate with a core-dev
[10:42] <Lathiat> and get it fixed
[10:42] <imbrandon> yea source is what matters as far as uploadability but if the patch only affect universe binary then
[10:42] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, if you wanna to check the pacth and stuff i'll be the core-dev part for an SRU
[10:43] <imbrandon> i havent done one yet, good time to learn
[10:44] <Fujitsu> I've got no AMD64 to test on (this problem just keeps coming up :(), so I'm not very useful for it.
[10:44] <Lathiat> i can test tonight for you
[10:44] <Lathiat> in a few hours
[10:44] <Lathiat> unless someone else can beforehand
[10:44] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, give me 2 minutes i can give you access to a amd64
[10:44] <Fujitsu> I think if it's in upstream and fixes the issue in Edgy, it should be good enough.
[10:44] <Lathiat> .. or that. :)
[10:44] <LaserJock> siretart must be lurking :-)
[10:45] <Fujitsu> Thanks, imbrando.
[10:45] <Fujitsu> *imbrandon
[10:51] <siretart> mh?
[10:51] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, done check query
[10:52] <LaserJock> siretart: I just noticed that you replied to the speex email so I figured you were up :-)
[10:53] <imbrandon> siretart, tag looks good to me ( unless you just really want a reply to the mail for a +1 from peeps )
[10:55] <ajmitch> hm
[10:56] <ajmitch> LaserJock: where was the email?
[10:56] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea , its not good, i just gave fujitsu access on my amd64 so he can play with it and get it ready for SRU and me / you / someone can push the upload once approved since its in main ( source )
[10:57] <ajmitch> yeah, I saw that earlier today
[10:57] <imbrandon> ajmitch, the -motu list
[10:57] <ajmitch> ah
[10:58] <imbrandon> where was debconf6 ?
[10:59] <LaserJock> Mexico
[10:59] <imbrandon> they have internet in mexico ?
[10:59] <LaserJock> no
[11:00] <LaserJock> I remember hearing lots of complaints when it was going on
[11:00] <imbrandon> oh there really isnt ? i was half jokin
[11:00] <LaserJock> something about stringing cables all over the roofs of buildings
[11:00] <imbrandon> hahah i wouldent doubt it
[11:00] <imbrandon> ever been to rural mexico ( that is most of it ) ?
[11:00] <imbrandon> its nuts
[11:01] <LaserJock> I remember seeing "houses" that were 4 sticks with some tin on top across the street from the largest Dodge dealership I'd ever seen
[11:02] <imbrandon> heh
[11:22] <imbrandon> hum is there software in the default install that will let me go from dvd (non-commercial not talking warez stuff) to mpeg/ogg/or some other great format
[11:22] <imbrandon> or maybe in universe ?
[11:23] <LaserJock> dvdrip?
[11:26] <LaserJock> UbuntuWorld 2007 ?
[11:26] <imbrandon> where do you see that ?
[11:26] <phanatic> imbrandon: mark's blog
[11:26] <LaserJock> planet
[11:27] <ajmitch> oh my
[11:28] <phanatic> we're just about to have something like that this weekend (you may call UbuntuHungary 2006) :)
[11:29] <imbrandon> rockin, UbuntuWorld 2007 would be awesom i think, like an "official" Ubucon or DebconfX
[11:29] <ajmitch> imbrandon: shame that most of us won't get to it :)
[11:29] <imbrandon> well i would think it would change cities like debconf
[11:29] <imbrandon> but yea
[11:30] <LaserJock> imbrandon: well there is going to be Ubucon twice a year
[11:30] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:30] <imbrandon> ubucon 2 times a year ?
[11:30] <imbrandon> at googleplex ?
[11:30] <ajmitch> living in NZ does suck sometimes :)
[11:31] <imbrandon> being broke does too no matter where you live ( talking about me )
[11:31] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:31] <ajmitch> oh well
[11:31] <imbrandon> kids never get married early
[11:31] <imbrandon> lol
[11:31] <ajmitch> us developers can moan together in solidarity ;)
[11:31] <imbrandon> divorce is expensive
[11:32] <ajmitch> I don't plan to do it
[11:32] <imbrandon> i dident plan to get divorced either, but in my case you can only over look a memory problem so much ( she would leave the house and forgot she was married )
[11:33] <sivang> morning all
[11:33] <imbrandon> heya sivang
[11:33] <ajmitch> hi sivang
[11:34] <phanatic> morning sivang
[11:34] <LaserJock> imbrandon: 1 at google, the other in New Your I believe
[11:34] <sivang> ajmitch: ubunutworld , oh my indeed :)
[11:36] <sivang> hi ajmitch , phanatic , imbrandon
[11:36] <sivang> LaserJock: twice a year? where do you get all this insider's info? :)
[11:37] <Admiral_Chicago> thats a first that i've ever seen
[11:37] <LaserJock> sivang: I'm talking about Ubucon
[11:39] <phanatic> LaserJock: there's UDS, there will be UbuntuWorld. and now Ubucon? :)
[11:39] <LaserJock> Ubucon was before UbuntuWorld :-)
[11:39] <LaserJock> and it was at Google before UDS was so....
[11:39] <Admiral_Chicago> he's back
[11:40] <imbrandon> ubucon has already been happening, and UDS isnt user and company centric
[11:40] <ajmitch> UDS was before them all
[11:40] <phanatic> LaserJock: oh, right, sorry :)
[11:40] <phanatic> i remember now
[11:40] <ajmitch> Admiral_Chicago: ?
[11:40] <Admiral_Chicago> ajmitch: ubotu quit and rejoined
[11:41] <Admiral_Chicago> err nevermind
[11:41] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm really tired and can't read
[11:41] <Admiral_Chicago> bedtime
[11:41] <ajmitch> heh, night
[11:41] <Admiral_Chicago> http://chi.ubuntu-us.org/
[11:41] <Admiral_Chicago> some of you may want to take the poll on the page
[11:41] <Admiral_Chicago> it's about the new art
[12:09] <imbrandon> is xvid a "free" codec ?
[12:10] <Plug> it's open source, but I think it has licensing issues
[12:10] <Plug> as it's an MPEG-4 derivative
[12:10] <imbrandon> hum i'm trying to rip some of my dvds into totaly free formats
[12:11] <Fujitsu> Theora!
[12:11] <imbrandon> i dont see theroa on the list
[12:11] <imbrandon> ;(
[12:11] <Fujitsu> Write in Theora+Vorbis support, then!
[12:11] <imbrandon> yea , right on , lol
[12:13] <imbrandon> Fujitsu,  http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss112.png
[12:13] <imbrandon> err 113
[12:14] <imbrandon> see my list of choices
[12:14] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: special..
[12:14] <imbrandon> see any of those that are "free" totaly ?
[12:14] <Fujitsu> How can people recommend such a thing!?
[12:15] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, 112 looks like it's the right one... But I can't see anything free there (not sure about the last three, though)
[12:15] <minghua> oh, checkinstall is forbidden to be spoken now?
[12:16] <imbrandon> minghua, yes alien , checkinstall and umm what was the third ?
[12:16] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Was there one?
[12:16] <Fujitsu> Was it RPM?
[12:16] <imbrandon> yea i had 3 , no not rpm
[12:16] <imbrandon> hrm
[12:16] <minghua> but c9l is really not easy to understand....  I was thinking of another lisp compiler
[12:17] <minghua> imbrandon: automatix?
[12:17] <imbrandon> thats possibly #4
[12:17] <Fujitsu> minghua: it's just too dirty to say it in full.
[12:17] <Fujitsu> Automatix is also pretty much forbidden, yes.
[12:17] <Fujitsu> EasyUbuntu is somewhat better
[12:17] <imbrandon> not alot imho , it should be easy just to DO
[12:17] <Fujitsu> True.
[12:17] <imbrandon> but alas the real world bites again
[12:19] <imbrandon> welp i guess xvid is as good as any for now
[12:21] <sivang> ah, LaserJoc referred to the ubuntu user con that was in google
[12:22] <sivang> *LaserJock
[12:29] <AnAnt> what should I do if I asked a question on #ubuntu+1 & ubuntu-users mailing list several days ago, yet got no answer ?
[12:30] <imbrandon> forums, prod friends , depending on the issue umm open a support ticket
[12:30] <AnAnt> imbrandon: what's the support ticket ? on LP
[12:30] <AnAnt> >
[12:30] <AnAnt> ?
[12:30] <ajmitch> yes
[12:30] <imbrandon> yes
[12:32] <ajmitch> AnAnt: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+tickets
[12:34] <AnAnt> thanks
[12:57] <Plug> if a build (dpkg-buildpackage) stops at something like dh_installdocs, can I rerun without it doing the clean & therefore recompiling?
[12:58] <ajmitch> dbpkg-buildpackage -nc
[12:58] <ajmitch> ignore the typo, you'll know what I mean
[12:58] <Plug> aha!  thanks, i wish I'd known about that years ago :)
[12:59] <ajmitch> :)
[12:59] <sivang>        -nc    Do not clean the source tree(implies -b).
[12:59] <sivang> Plug: ^^^
[12:59] <Plug> sivang: cheers too
[12:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67720 in wine "Cannot install wireless driver in newer edgy version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67720
[01:00] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: why not?
[01:00] <imbrandon> becouse they wanna install the windows drivers ? hehehe
[01:00] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: because it obviously isn't related to wine? :)
[01:00] <ajmitch> imbrandon: from a tar.gz?
[01:00] <Fujitsu> wireless' first 4 letters are close enough to wine, so it's a wine bug.
[01:00] <imbrandon> ajmitch, i dunno lol
[01:01] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: given his spelling in the bugreport, it wouldn't surprise me..
[01:44] <pirast> StevenK, any idea what is wrong with the build of enigmail-locales?
[01:44] <StevenK> pirast: Um, no, but only because I haven't had a chance to look yet.
[01:45] <pirast> StevenK, okay. But you did upload everything, right? It is not just a debdiff that has to be uploaded
[01:45] <pirast> StevenK, would be nice when you have a look at that later
[01:46] <StevenK> pirast: According to Launchpad, it's in the archive.
[01:46] <StevenK> Current release:  0.9x-20061010-1ubuntu1
[01:46] <StevenK> Creator: Martin Jrgens
[01:47] <pirast> StevenK,but the builds page at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/enigmail-locales/+builds?build_state=all says it was not build
[01:47] <StevenK> i386 build of enigmail-locales 0.9x-20061010-1ubuntu1 in ubuntu edgy RELEASE
[01:47] <StevenK> Status: 	Successfully built
[01:48] <StevenK> Anything else you'd me to disprove? :-
[01:48] <StevenK> :-P
[01:48] <pirast> SteveK, lol!
[01:48] <pirast> StevenK, I dont know why, but I always saw the version without ubuntu there :-)
[01:48] <pirast> StevenK, okay.. it was built today :-)
[01:49] <pirast> But I wonder why it took so long to build :-)
[01:49] <pirast> StevenK, thanks :-)
[01:49] <StevenK> pirast: Probably because it was sitting in the unapproved queue.
[01:49] <Fujitsu> pirast: it was only approved less than an hour ago.
[01:49] <StevenK> pirast: Since we are so close to release, all uploads have to be approved manually.
[01:50] <pirast> k.. thanks :-)
[01:50] <Fujitsu> OK, almost 2 hours ago, but still.
[01:50] <pirast> wargh, I am so happy to have this in Edgy.. It took me some time to fix the issue :-)
[01:50] <pirast> I am somewhat happy..
[01:50] <pirast> enigmail bug fixed
[01:50] <pirast> ooo copy and paste bug gets fixed before of the edgy release
[01:51] <pirast> firefox rss bug gets fixed before the edgy release :-)
[01:52] <Fujitsu> pusle?
[01:52] <StevenK> Um. pulse
[02:08] <Q-FUNK> StevenK: what pulse?
[02:08] <Q-FUNK> what's gonna be so big?
[02:14] <pirast> Q-FUNK I think it will probably be the firefox 2 d/ls ;-)
[02:15] <Q-FUNK> ony tomorrow, though, not tonight?
[02:16] <StevenK> It might be tonight.
[02:20] <ajmitch> yay, end of the month
[02:20] <ajmitch> (for ISP billing)
[02:21] <ajmitch> so I can start downloading RC images for testing
[02:24] <sivang> heh
[02:25] <pirast> sivang, hi
[02:25] <sivang> hey pirast
[02:26] <sivang> pirast: I wanted to ask you if have any idea bout mod-mono
[02:26] <ajmitch> sivang: it's well known
[02:26] <sivang> it seems like the borken dependency list is deep deep :)
[02:26] <ajmitch> apache-dev & apache2-dev can't be installed together
[02:26] <sivang> ajmitch: ah, well, with this list of broken stuff no wonder :)
[02:26] <ajmitch> nothing we can do immediately to fix that
[02:26] <ajmitch> due to differing libdb4.3-dev & libdb4.4-dev
[02:27] <sivang> differing from sid ?
[02:27] <ajmitch> no
[02:27] <ajmitch> apache & apache2 use different libdb versions, they need to use the same
[02:27] <sivang> why can't we have two versions of libdb ?
[02:27] <ajmitch> because they have the same files
[02:27] <sivang> ah
[02:28] <sivang> bad
[02:28] <StevenK> Because the symbols weren't versioned, either.
[02:28] <ajmitch> it's an old old problem
[02:28] <ajmitch> infinity was going to look at it if he got time, being an apache maintainer
[02:28] <sivang> I see
[02:28] <sivang> StevenK: versioned symbols ?
[02:29] <ajmitch> sivang: magical fun
[02:29] <sivang> hmm
[02:29] <sivang> you mean, versioning the exported symbols from a binary?
[02:29] <sivang> oh dear
[02:29] <ajmitch> instead of a library wide version, symbols in libraries can get versions as well
[02:29] <sivang> specific to GCC, or IEEE sandard stuff?
[02:30] <StevenK> It's an ELF-ism
[02:30] <sivang> I see
[02:31] <imbrandon> and me ;) ( the dident know part )
[02:31] <sivang> StevenK, ajmitch : indeed. I feel so betrayed
[02:31] <StevenK> Heh
[02:31] <sivang> ;)
[02:32] <sivang> just when I thought that at least at that level things can stay off-magic
[02:32] <sivang> anyway, gotta run, see you all alters dude
[02:32] <sivang> s
[02:32] <StevenK> No, no, they get more magical.
[02:32] <sivang> StevenK: well, yeah, but versioned symbols? /me wonders how would the debian lib packaging guide would look trying to explain them.
[02:33] <StevenK> It doesn't need to.
[02:33] <sivang> how does lib packaging can relate to versioned symbols?
[02:33] <sivang> (give problem might arise if neglecting where the situation is right)
[02:33] <StevenK> Versioned symbols are only needed if you want multiple versions of the library to co-exist and be loaded at the same time in the same symbol table.
[02:34] <StevenK> And maybe not even then.
[02:34] <StevenK> See, it's magical.
[02:34] <sivang> StevenK: hehe, btw,what sane use case could be for that?
[02:34] <sivang> (especially: in the *same* symbold table)
[02:34] <StevenK> sivang: Most of them *aren't* sane, that's the point. ;-)
[02:35] <thom> sivang: your binary loads two extension modules. one is linked to foo1.2, and one is linked to foo2.0
[02:35] <StevenK> To be honest, it's something you want to avoid.
[02:35] <sivang> bhale: I would think ;-p
[02:36] <sivang> thom: nice
[02:36] <ajmitch> I'm sure keybuk could tell you even more details
[02:37] <sivang> yes, his the master of the dirty details ;-)
[02:37] <sivang> anyway fells, I need to run now. laters all!
[02:37] <ajmitch> given that he maintained libtool at some point, iirc
[02:37] <ajmitch> bye
[02:38] <thom> StevenK: libdb _does_ have versioned symbols
[02:38] <thom> it's one of the oldest things in the archive that does
[02:39] <StevenK> Oh.
[02:39] <thom> but you still can't install two sets of its dev headers together
[02:42] <pirast> sivang, no i  dont have any..
[03:40] <zul> wth is vegemite?
[03:41] <StevenK> An Australian spread made from yeast.
[03:41] <zul> ah ok..
[03:41] <StevenK> Apparently, now illegal to import into America.
[03:41] <zul> yeah i been reading jdub's blog
[03:42] <zul> aussie's in america are welcome to canada i dont think we have banned it (yet)
[03:49] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:49] <Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian
[03:49] <bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
[05:10] <rmjb> Morning guys
[05:10] <rmjb> hey, I uploaded my first package to revu, but I didn't get an email with an initial password. How long does that take?
[05:13] <rmjb> ah, no probs I saw how I get it
[05:26] <sivang> re
[05:59] <superm1> ping  dholbach
[05:59] <dholbach> superm1: pong
[06:00] <superm1> hey dholbach, i saw that you reassigned the uvfe i filed for autoprofile to me
[06:00] <superm1> should it be-reassigned to me since i can't sync it personally?
[06:01] <dholbach> superm1: you can take care of the next steps, ubuntu-universe-sponsors and the like
[06:01] <dholbach> it's not in 'motu-uvf' s hands anymore
[06:01] <superm1> Ah i see.
[06:01] <superm1> very well
[06:20] <Jozo-> dholbach: What should I do with bug 66507 and gnunet (0.7.0e-2ubuntu2)?
[06:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66507 in gnunet "[DEBDIFF]  gnunet: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66507
[06:21] <dholbach> Jozo-: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/019922.html
[06:25] <_MMA_> Hello guys. How do I find out if a package already has a maintainer? ie: theres packages for Somasuite I want to get into Feisty.
[06:26] <LaserJock> _MMA_: check if it's in edgy, REVU, or Debian
[06:27] <Toadstool> good morning everybody
[06:27] <sivang> Fesity is open already ?
[06:27] <sivang> *Feisty
[06:27] <_MMA_> As far as Edgy goes theres 3 of like 10 packages there. Im not sure how to check the others.
[06:28] <_MMA_> sivang: Im just planning ahead. ;)
[06:29] <LaserJock> _MMA_: for REVU, revu.tauware.de
[06:29] <_MMA_> Ok.
[06:29] <LaserJock> _MMA_: for Debian, try packages.debian.org
[06:29] <sivang> Burgwork: Hey corey
[06:30] <Burgwork> hey sivang
[06:35] <_MMA_> LaserJock: It looks like the packages Ubuntu has are the same as Debian-Unstable. And its just Somaplayer. Im trying to get the entire suite in.
[06:38] <superm1> _MMA_, if thats the case, you can assemble a package for the rest of the suite and upload it to revu for the wonderful MOTU's here to look at
[06:38] <superm1> once Feisty repos open up and they approve your package, it can be added to universe for feisty
[06:39] <_MMA_> Ok. Thank you for the info.
[06:40] <superm1> _MMA_, if you haven't packaged before at all, take a look at the ubuntu packaging guide to get started, https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[06:44] <_MMA_> I plan on looking into that. For right Im just managing a team of people. We have someone who wants to package so Ill also send them the link. Thank you.
[06:47] <poningru> where can I find the changelogs for packages?
[06:47] <poningru> not in my comp
[06:47] <poningru> but online
[06:47] <LaserJock> changelogs.ubuntu.com
[06:48] <poningru> that seems to only have stable's packages
[06:48] <poningru> i.e dapper
[06:48] <poningru> or not
[06:48] <poningru> nm
[06:48] <poningru> thanks
[06:48] <superm1> on packages.ubuntu.com, you can search for edgy packages.  there is a link for each source packages's changelog too
[06:49] <LaserJock> superm1: does that work?
[06:49] <lophyte> superm1: doesn't look like my myth box is coming.. been almost 2 weeks
[06:50] <poningru> woot much better thanks
[06:58] <superm1> LaserJock, yea it does.
[06:58] <superm1> Thats how i have grabbed source packages when i didn't have access to apt, and i've looked at changelogs there too
[06:58] <LaserJock> superm1: seemed like i was linking to the wrong place for a while
[06:58] <superm1> lophyte, you need to find some more reliable friends :)
[06:58] <LaserJock> s/i/it/
[06:59] <superm1> LaserJock, very possible it is doing that for specific packages still, i've only looked a few times
[06:59] <superm1> LaserJock, but it also takes some time before the updated changelogs get put there from what i've noticed
[07:02] <superm1> LaserJock, example: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/multiverse/m/mythtv/mythtv_0.20-0.2ubuntu2/changelog is obtained from http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/graphics/mythtv  And points to the right changelog, but that didn't pop up for at least a day after the last debdiff was uploaded
[07:03] <LaserJock> k
[07:14] <sivang> slomo_: do you happen to the package name of the real media video codec?
[07:17] <joejaxx> imbrandon: so someone is prentending to be me again
[07:17] <joejaxx> i need to talk to Freenode about that
[07:19] <superm1> LaserJock, are you going up to UDS?
[07:19] <LaserJock> yes
[07:20] <superm1> could you possibly look over a spec i put together and attend the meeting the day its talked about?  I won't be able to take off of work to make it up. https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/automatic-module-assistant
[07:21] <LaserJock> probably not :/
[07:21] <LaserJock> I'm not going to be there the whole time
[07:21] <superm1> oh
[07:22] <LaserJock> and there are probably better people
[07:22] <superm1> well could you at least look it over and make any recommendations on it?
[07:22] <LaserJock> :-)
[07:22] <LaserJock> wahoo, wget +html2text = easy LP parsing
[07:26] <LaserJock> lucas: you here?
[07:26] <lucas> yes
[07:28] <LaserJock> lucas: what do you use to parse Debian and LP for bugs in MDT?
[07:28] <lucas> Debian: the data is available on qa.debian.org
[07:28] <lucas> LP: +bugs-text
[07:28] <lucas> (which really sucks, but there's no better solution)
[07:32] <slomo_> sivang: what exactly do you mean? package name? or really codec name?
[07:33] <sivang> slomo_: well, package name. I was unable to find one. Do we have one at all?
[07:33] <slomo_> sivang: probably in the realplayer package... no idea... just don't use it ;)
[08:10] <joejaxx> LaserJock: is the firefox icon supposed to be used in Ubuntu?
[08:11] <LaserJock> well, that's sort of up in the air right now
[08:11] <LaserJock> although it looks to me like we are going to keep it
[08:11] <joejaxx> oh ok i was just wondering since it appeared with the dist-upgrade
[08:11] <LaserJock> yes, that's the way it is in Edgy
[08:12] <joejaxx> yeah
[08:12] <joejaxx> before with rc it was still the earth icon
[08:12] <joejaxx> which version is this then?
[08:12] <joejaxx> since i had to dist-upgrade from rc?
[08:12] <joejaxx> stable?
[08:13] <LaserJock> what version is what?
[08:14] <joejaxx> well what developmental version of ubuntu is this dist-upgrade
[08:14] <joejaxx> since i had RC
[08:15] <_MMA_> Laserjock: Can you tell us why Ubuntu can use it now or point me to some info?
[08:15] <joejaxx> and it wanted me to dist-upgrade
[08:15] <LaserJock> joejaxx: it'd edgy
[08:15] <LaserJock> *it's
[08:15] <joejaxx> ah
[08:15] <joejaxx> so stable :D
[08:15] <joejaxx> or final
[08:15] <joejaxx> nice
[08:15] <LaserJock> no
[08:15] <joejaxx> no?
[08:15] <LaserJock> it'd just edgy
[08:16] <LaserJock> grr, can't type s's today
[08:16] <joejaxx> LaserJock: but i had Edgy RC before
[08:16] <LaserJock> joejaxx: you are running Edgy, right?
[08:16] <joejaxx> yes
[08:16] <zul> LaserJock: its the key by the f
[08:17] <LaserJock> joejaxx: so when you run apt-get dist-upgrade you are just updating edgy
[08:17] <LaserJock> zul: yeah, yeah, but "d" is so much more convenient
[08:17] <joejaxx> LaserJock: well it was actually from the update-manager
[08:17] <zul> LaserJock: lol
[08:18] <LaserJock> joejaxx: fine
[08:18] <joejaxx> LaserJock: the reason i was asking
[08:18] <LaserJock> joejaxx: but as long as you don't change your sources.list you are running edgy
[08:18] <joejaxx> is because it told me there was a distibution upgrade normal it jut says it has found these updates
[08:19] <joejaxx> LaserJock: ok
[08:20] <LaserJock> _MMA_: well, Edgy is basically frozen and mdz has been talking with Mozilla. You can get more info on the ubuntu-devel mailing list
[08:26] <superm1> particularly http://archives.free.net.ph/thread/20061023.181921.4ea4c7b4.en.html if anyone wanted to read what LaserJock was referring to
[08:51] <LaserJock> anybody know how you can read  file line by line in a shell script
[08:59] <Jozo-> read?
[08:59] <LaserJock> well, I want to loop over the lines in a file
[09:00] <LaserJock> but each line has 2 columns
[09:00] <Gloubiboulga> evening
[09:00] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, hello!
[09:00] <LaserJock> so if I just do a for line in `cat $file` it splits each line up
[09:00] <LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga
[09:00] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, could you confirm that bug 58481 is fixed?
[09:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58481 in scilab "scilab+ubuntu dapper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58481
[09:01] <Gloubiboulga> ha, it's a dapper bug
[09:01] <LaserJock> it's not fixed in Dapper
[09:01] <LaserJock> but in Edgy it is
[09:01] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[09:01] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what to do about it
[09:01] <LaserJock> I don't think there really is anything we can do
[09:01] <Gloubiboulga> I've just received a mail from a scilab dev, proposing a patch (which is in edgy)
[09:01] <Burgwork> LaserJock: prepare a dapper-updates
[09:02] <LaserJock> Burgwork: it's a major new upstream version change
[09:02] <Gloubiboulga> can't we backport scilab 4.0 in dapper?
[09:02] <ajmitch> morning all
[09:02] <Burgwork> Gloubiboulga: backports are not enabled by default
[09:02] <Burgwork> LaserJock: but there must be a smaller patch
[09:02] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: did the dev propose a patch for the Dapper version?
[09:03] <LaserJock> Burgwork: probably but I doubt I have time to hunt it down
[09:03] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, no, it's the patch comming from debian, ie removing the gtk support
[09:03] <Gloubiboulga> in 4.0
[09:03] <LaserJock> ugg
[09:03] <LaserJock> I hate doing stable release updates
[09:03] <LaserJock> especially since Dapper is a mess
[09:04] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: do you think you can track down a specific patch to fix this?
[09:04] <LaserJock> either by asking Debian or the scilab devs?
[09:04] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, it's a GTK bug
[09:05] <LaserJock> so we have to get rid of GTK?
[09:05] <LaserJock> or can be just apply a patch?
[09:05] <Gloubiboulga> or we can fix it :)
[09:05] <Gloubiboulga> well, the scilab dev told me that the gtk version is not supported
[09:05] <LaserJock> well, whatever works :-)
[09:06] <Gloubiboulga> so they won't work on it, and I'm not sure I'll be able to fix the bug
[09:07] <LaserJock> yeah, nothing like having some of the most popular math/science software completely broken
[09:08] <LaserJock> I really wish they hadn't called Dapper an LTS release
[09:08] <Gloubiboulga> a rebuild without the gtk support for dapper-updates is certainly the easiest solution IMO
[09:10] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, if scilab is broken, an update is not a big risk :)
[09:11] <LaserJock> yes, but it still has to go through all the processes
[09:11] <LaserJock> we've been working on gcl/maxima for weeks now
[09:11] <LaserJock> the amount of "completely broken" apps keeps getting bigger
[09:13] <Gloubiboulga> right
[09:14] <LaserJock> anyway, if a rebuild without gtk works then I say we do a SRU
[09:16] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[09:17] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, I'm answering to the Scilab dev, I can CC you maybe?
[09:17] <LaserJock> sure
[09:18] <giskard> hi LaserJock :)
[09:18] <LaserJock> hello
[09:27] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, I'll try the new build tomorrow, it's time to go to bed for me
[09:27] <LaserJock> good night
[09:28] <Gloubiboulga> thanks
[09:34] <Cale> Does anyone know anything about the status of a GHC 6.6 package for ubuntu?
[09:35] <Cale> slomo_: perhaps you'd know?
[09:36] <Nafallo> Cale: you probably ment sistpoty rather than slomo
[09:36] <Cale> Nafallo: yeah, slomo_ is also mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/UncommonProgrammingLanguages/Haskell
[09:37] <slomo_> Cale: better ask sistpoty but he's not online right now... i didn't look at GHC for a long time now
[09:37] <slomo_> Cale: why do you ask?
[09:37] <Cale> Because I'd like to run it :)
[09:37] <Cale> 6.6 incorporates a bunch of new libraries and language features.
[09:38] <slomo_> well... we have ghc 6.4 and it works ;)
[09:38] <Cale> yeah, I know :)
[09:38] <slomo_> and we'll get 6.6 with feisty as debian already has it anyway
[09:47] <giskard> hello slomo_
[09:47] <slomo_> hi giskard :)
[09:55] <giskard> hello bddebian
[09:55] <bddebian> Hello giskard
[10:30] <LaserJock> hmm
[10:30] <LaserJock> scilab can't find Xaw3d
[10:30] <LaserJock> but it's got the build-dep
[11:10] <pirast> night
[11:55] <cbx33> good evenin fellow MOTUs
[11:57] <lupine_85> howdy
[11:57] <lupine_85> btw, I got an emai from ubuntu about a package that I added to universe... apparently it's failing to build on the build machines. anything I can do?
[11:58] <lupine_85> It *did* build in pbuilder, on mine and (presumably) my advocates' machines,
[11:58] <lupine_85> (the package is rutilt)
[11:58] <lupine_85> !rutilt
[11:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about rutilt - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:58] <lupine_85> gah
[11:58] <LaserJock> lupine_85: can you rebuild with an updated pbuilder?
[11:59] <lupine_85> I can try
[11:59] <cbx33> could be a depdency has changed since?
[11:59] <cbx33> LaserJock, hmm... ;)
[11:59] <ajmitch> you could look at the build logs & see what caused it to fail
[11:59] <lupine_85> it's the kernel headers that do it :(
[11:59] <lupine_85> I think you were one of my advocates
[12:00] <lupine_85> http://librarian.launchpad.net/4923206/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.rutilt_0.12-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[12:00] <ajmitch> ah yes, the difference in behaviour between pbuilder & sbuild on buildds
[12:00] <lupine_85> is it something I can fix?
[12:00] <ajmitch> that's not the failure
[12:01] <ajmitch> /usr/bin/make clean
[12:01] <ajmitch> make[1] : Entering directory `/build/buildd/rutilt-0.12'
[12:01] <ajmitch> Makefile:34: Makefile_cst: No such file or directory
[12:01] <ajmitch> make[1] : *** No rule to make target `Makefile_cst'.  Stop.
[12:01] <lupine_85> that error gets ignored though?
[12:01] <ajmitch> the makefile problem is where it fails
[12:02] <lupine_85> hmm... makefile_cst gets generated by the config script
[12:03] <lupine_85> it's not in the original tarball, and packaging rules forbid that I add it...
[12:06] <lupine_85> no, that's a red herring
[12:06] <lupine_85> the problem is when it can't find /usr/src/linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[12:06] <lupine_85> or when they are mismatched against the current kernel
[12:07] <lupine_85> hmm... changing to /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build *might* fix it
[12:09] <lupine_85> yes... the build machine is running kernel 2.6.15.7 but the headers installed were 2.6.17-10-server-bigiron