[01:05] <Luna-Tick> Hi all. I filed https://launchpad.net/bugs/67301 about some strange hanging that has started happening for me on boot. I think that it belongs where I filed it, but I was hoping someone here could check that it wasn't meant to be filed against upstart instead.
[01:31] <Luna-Tick> ... Well, thanks for your help. Ciao
[01:32] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh
[01:35] <agent> does anyone know what exact command finds out when is the appropriate time to do a fsck on boot?
[01:35] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, that's in your fs properties
[01:35] <johnnybuoy|gento> you can check it with e2fstune
[01:35] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, 'man e2fstune'
[01:36] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, you're using ext3, right?
[01:40] <agent> yes, thank ypu
[01:40] <agent> err you :)
[01:40] <johnnybuoy|gento> np
[01:40] <agent> errr... i dont have e2fstune ;)
[01:41] <agent> i have e2fsck
[01:44] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, that`s no good
[01:45] <johnnybuoy|gento> you need e2fsprogs
[01:45] <agent> there is tune2fs :)
[01:45] <johnnybuoy|gento> sudo apt-get install e2fsprogs
[01:45] <agent> well, if i dont have it on my system that means that some other prog is doing the check to see when it should invoke a fsck
[01:46] <_ion> I don't know whether that was Arabic or Farsi or whatever, but gnome-terminal rendered that horribly. :-)
[01:46] <agent> works in xchat :/
[01:46] <_ion> Probably.
[01:47] <agent> xchat-gnome, if that makes a difference
[01:47] <_ion> Probably not.
[01:47] <agent> yeah, probably gnome terminal and gnome xchat do not have the same font rendering
[01:48] <_ion> gnome-terminal renders combining characters as if they were normal characters.
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[01:50] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, no, your fs parameters have it in them and the default is fsck every 30 mounts
[01:51] <johnnybuoy|gento> you can change it with e2fstune, which is in the e2fsprogs
[01:51] <johnnybuoy|gento> I can't help you more than this
[01:51] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: so there is no check at boot to see what mount # it's on (as in, if this is the 30th mount)? this is somehow built into the fs?
[01:51] <johnnybuoy|gento> well, yes, fs+distro
[01:52] <johnnybuoy|gento> yes
[01:52] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, it counts it
[01:52] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: yes, you can also change it with tune2fs... google search revealed that e2fstune = tune2fs... but maybe this is not accurate
[01:52] <johnnybuoy|gento> but if there is a problem with it, it'll sometimes go in circle
[01:52] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: and im trying to figure out what exacting does the counting :)
[01:53] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, heh, okay, so tune2fs is the same :D
[01:53] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, I think the fs has a valuable for it
[01:53] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, ahy?
[01:53] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, why?
[01:54] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: i was wondering if it would be possible to list what mount in the cycle its on... so maybe it's possible to write some prog that catches this
[01:54] <agent> err
[01:54] <agent> i think i was not being clear on that second part
[01:55] <johnnybuoy|gento> yes, well, I think (tun)e2fs(tune) knows ow to query this, but I'm not shure
[01:55] <agent> ex: write a program that sees that it's on mount #29 and tells the user...
[01:55] <johnnybuoy|gento> I did see something like this on a distro
[01:56] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: i read the man page and i actually dont see anything about it being able to do that
[01:56] <johnnybuoy|gento> it said maximum number of mounts reached, fsck will be ran on next mount, you can disable this with tune2fs
[01:57] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: yes, but i dont want to disable anything :( just query to see what mount its on
[01:58] <johnnybuoy|gento> okay, I dunno for the query...
[01:58] <johnnybuoy|gento> but it should be an e2 (ext3) query tool, cause it's insided the fs
[02:00] <agent> summary on e2fsprogs webpage: e2fsprogs, which consists of e2fsck, mke2fs, debugfs, dumpe2fs, tune2fs, and most of the other core ext2fs filesystem utilities. (notice the tune2fs - guess it was renamed)
[02:01] <johnnybuoy|gento> yep
[02:02] <johnnybuoy|gento> then maybe there is a third-party tool to make queryes
[02:02] <johnnybuoy|gento> it shouldn't be hard to make as the specs of ext3 are completely GPL
[02:03] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: well, seeing as my programming skills are in the crapper ;)
[02:03] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh
[02:04] <johnnybuoy|gento> LEAVE me, I'm installing gentoo right now ;)
[02:05] <agent> ok... good luck
[02:05] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh
[02:05] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, why did you change?
[02:06] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: i became tired of compiling everything
[02:06] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: also, i wanted a stable system, but not so stable like debian ;)
[02:06] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: ubuntu's 6month cycle is perfect
[02:07] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh
[02:07] <johnnybuoy|gento> ubuntu is nice, I like it
[02:07] <johnnybuoy|gento> but my computer is too slow for it
[02:07] <johnnybuoy|gento> and I wanted to test out something daunting and exciting ;P
[02:09] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: well good luck... if your pc is slow for ubuntu you will pull out your hair when you have to compile all those programs... over and over.... and over after every update ;)
[02:10] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh
[02:10] <agent> at least now they have binaries for big programs] 
[02:10] <agent> but just so you know, speed increase is minimal
[02:10] <agent> what are your specs?
[02:10] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, well, it's not that slow, but a 2yrs old ubuntu is just sooooo slow now with like 210,000 files installed
[02:10] <johnnybuoy|gento> I have no time to prune everything
[02:11] <johnnybuoy|gento> and it's immpossible to do a perfect job
[02:11] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: your not doing a good job with maintanance ;)
[02:11] <johnnybuoy|gento> meh
[02:11] <johnnybuoy|gento> 2 trs, man
[02:11] <johnnybuoy|gento> 2 yrs
[02:11] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: thats always the case, regardless what distro...
[02:11] <johnnybuoy|gento> any debian unstable system get's oooold after 2yrs
[02:12] <agent> when was hoary released?
[02:12] <johnnybuoy|gento> I used ubuntu unstable allways
[02:12] <agent> yeah, thats probably not a good idea if you want to keep things clean :)
[02:12] <johnnybuoy|gento> yea
[02:13] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: is there an easy way to check the amount of files on an fs?
[02:13] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh
[02:14] <agent> oh, and im on 2 years ubuntu (but mostly stable)
[02:14] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, for me apt told me when it was 'reading the database' for ages, then tell me I had 210,000 files installed
[02:15] <johnnybuoy|gento> also, I was using kde for a while, but then switched to GNOME
[02:15] <johnnybuoy|gento> now that didn't help
[02:15] <agent> meh
[02:15] <agent> just remove everything :)
[02:15] <agent> it's actually not that difficult to revert to a "fresh install" system
[02:16] <agent> just compare the "fresh install" package list with what you have and remove the extras
[02:16] <agent> not counting the extra packages that you want to keep, of course ;)
[02:17] <johnnybuoy|gento> hmm
[02:17] <johnnybuoy|gento> right
[02:17] <johnnybuoy|gento> well, I did that
[02:17] <johnnybuoy|gento> but I'm pretty shure I still had some leftovers..
[02:19] <agent> thats always the case, but im curious how you intend on getting gentoo to solve this?
[02:20] <johnnybuoy|gento> well, it's not as a solution, more like a "I need to get some excitement" in my life
[02:20] <johnnybuoy|gento> and I really do like gentoo a lot
[02:20] <johnnybuoy|gento> for being able to have my own cflags and USE= flags
[02:21] <johnnybuoy|gento> I mean, I know the performance benefit..
[02:25] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: yes.... if it suits you, why not? now are you planning on using a DE?
[02:25] <johnnybuoy|gento> yep
[02:25] <johnnybuoy|gento> GNOME
[02:25] <johnnybuoy|gento> why?
[02:28] <agent> just curious since you say your pc is not very fast
[02:28] <johnnybuoy|gento> ah
[02:29] <johnnybuoy|gento> no, it is
[02:29] <agent> o
[02:29] <johnnybuoy|gento> but not for 210,000 installed files
[02:29] <johnnybuoy|gento> it was just crufty
[02:29] <johnnybuoy|gento> I have a PentiumM centrino 1,5Ghz.
[02:29] <agent> also, i dont understand how a linux system can be slow if it has many files... they are on the hd but not being used
[02:30] <agent> and ubuntu for 1.5 years on 450mhz pc works fine here ;)
[02:30] <johnnybuoy|gento> well, starting a program was taking ages
[02:30] <johnnybuoy|gento> after that it was fine
[02:30] <agent> i see
[02:31] <johnnybuoy|gento> I see you really don't like gentoo
[02:31] <johnnybuoy|gento> any reasons except the compile times?
[02:32] <agent> i have nothing against gentoo actually
[02:32] <agent> its just not for me
[02:33] <agent> compile times are pretty much it...
[02:33] <agent> and running find on / results in this nice number for me: 495191
[02:33] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh
[02:33] <agent> but that counts EVERYTHING
[02:34] <johnnybuoy|gento> I have heard that btrees improve ext3 performace quite a bit, so that's what I'll use
[02:34] <agent> including directories, links, and even  all those "files" in proc
[02:34] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, what does apt say about installed packages?
[02:34] <agent> 1177
[02:35] <johnnybuoy|gento> wtf??
[02:35] <agent> no performance hit whatsoever
[02:35] <agent> why?
[02:35] <agent> is that a lot?
[02:36] <johnnybuoy|gento> man, even on base ubuntu install it's
[02:36] <johnnybuoy|gento> 80,000
[02:36] <agent> no
[02:36] <agent> you asked for # of packages
[02:36] <agent> not files ;)
[02:36] <johnnybuoy|gento> ah, right
[02:36] <johnnybuoy|gento> sorry
[02:36] <agent> hehe
[02:36] <johnnybuoy|gento> I meant files
[02:37] <johnnybuoy|gento> when apt (dpkg) says reading the database
[02:37] <agent> its too fast
[02:37] <johnnybuoy|gento> then it spits out some files
[02:37] <johnnybuoy|gento> meh
[02:37] <agent> :D
[02:37] <agent> and this is on a 1ghz laptop
[02:38] <agent> what command do you pass to get the # of file
[02:38] <agent> i see nothing about files, just packages
[02:38] <agent> maybe its just too fast
[02:38] <johnnybuoy|gento> hmm
[02:38] <johnnybuoy|gento> nope
[02:39] <johnnybuoy|gento> just reinstall a package, it'll read that database every time
[02:40] <agent> your right!
[02:40] <agent> never noticed that before
[02:40] <agent> hah
[02:40] <agent> 100498 files and directories currently installed
[02:41] <johnnybuoy|gento> see
[02:41] <johnnybuoy|gento> I had twice as many
[02:41] <agent> :)
[02:41] <johnnybuoy|gento> dunno, tho
[02:41] <agent> you don't clean your system!
[02:41] <johnnybuoy|gento> yes I do
[02:41] <johnnybuoy|gento> I'd like to use upstart
[02:41] <agent> well, 100,000 packages says you dont ;P
[02:42] <agent> err
[02:42] <agent> files
[02:42] <agent> not packages
[02:42] <agent> haha
[02:42] <johnnybuoy|gento> it's a nice project, would be nice if gentoo didn't have that initng cr*p
[02:42] <agent> oh and one more thing i like about ubuntu: it just works (well, except multimedia)
[02:43] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh, 100,000 packages would be a world record, I guess
[02:43] <agent> there are only 20,000 in ubuntu repos
[02:43] <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, yea, I know, but still, if gentoo is configured properly it just works also, and better
[02:43] <johnnybuoy|gento> s/better/faster
[02:43] <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: aye :)
[02:44] <johnnybuoy|gento> :)
[02:46] <agent> oh... i found out how to check inodes
[02:46] <agent> df -i
[02:46] <agent> that will quickly show you amount of files, directories, etc. together
[02:47] <johnnybuoy|gento> yea! ext3 is nice
[02:47] <johnnybuoy|gento> I wonder what they'll do for ext4
[02:47] <johnnybuoy|gento> ...
[02:47] <agent> in gentoo i switched from ext3 to reiserfs :)
[02:48] <johnnybuoy|gento> wel, that's highly unsafe...
[02:48] <agent> what?
[02:48] <agent> reiserfs?
[02:48] <johnnybuoy|gento> in this install I wanted to use reiser4, but I think I'll just use ext3 with btrees
[02:48] <johnnybuoy|gento> yes, reiser4
[02:48] <johnnybuoy|gento> and reiserfs
[02:49] <agent> reiser4 != reiserfs
[02:49] <agent> o
[02:49] <agent> :)
[02:49] <johnnybuoy|gento> both are rather unstable
[02:49] <agent> worked for me
[02:49] <johnnybuoy|gento> also, do you know about Mr. Hans Reiser?
[02:49] <agent> i know who he is, yes.... i dont know much about him
[02:50] <johnnybuoy|gento> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_reiser#Arrest_following_wife.27s_disappearance
[02:51] <agent> i guess reiser4 wont be stable soon, eh?
[02:51] <johnnybuoy|gento> heh
[02:51] <johnnybuoy|gento> probably not heh
[02:51] <johnnybuoy|gento> tho some project might pick it up
[02:52] <johnnybuoy|gento> it's a quite nice design
[05:35] <rmjb> Hi
[05:35] <rmjb> does udev trigger an event when it starts in edgy?
[05:36] <rmjb> can I create an upstart script that runs "on udev-start"?