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linnuxxyi need a full resolution image of the ubuntu CD cover01:10
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linnuxxywhere can i find it?01:10
ZirJokersomebody send me a screenshot of his desktop01:10
linnuxxyI want to make a Ubuntu Key chain... is there any suitable images for that?01:12
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Traetroy_s, you the head of this rag tag crew of space pirates?01:49
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Traeback in a sec.01:52
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Traebbl, Jericho and lost are coming on!01:56
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Traebah, already starting off on the wrong foot. heh.04:36
Traegmail really needs a "Edit as New" feature.04:36
TraeSorry about the email "forward" to the list.  I originally sent to ubuntu-art@ubuntu.com which came back to me. :)04:37
=== Trae goes to get some work done.
troy_strae?  you called?04:42
Traetroy_s, howdy04:42
Traetroy_s, Just sent an email to the list announcing my availability for work04:43
TraeSorry about the forward... I messed up (read above)04:43
Traethought it was simply "sending as new" so to speak.  :)04:43
troy_sgreat stuff04:45
troy_ssabdfl is going to re-hire the guy who developed the dapper work04:45
troy_sso the community contributions regarding the official default work will be rather limited04:46
troy_sdon't be discouraged however, there are many projects gearing up off official.04:46
TraeNo worries04:47
Traeodd that Mark made that recent post then.04:48
Traeseemed like a call to arms to me.04:48
Traeand whoeever runs ubuntu.com should fix the 1px bug that's been bugging me forever on the navigation links area04:49
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troy_si believe his comments were directed more at the rather silly predicament he landed us in.05:04
troy_snewz2000 is the canonical web fellow05:05
troy_sforward your issues to him05:05
Traeheh, sent it to Mark, I'm sure he'll send it to him.05:05
Traegot his email addy?05:05
Traenewz2000 {AT} ubuntu?05:06
troy_sdon't waste sabs time05:16
troy_she has a gabillion mails per day05:16
troy_sand things are very busy right now.05:16
troy_sfurther, design by committee works very well actually.  if you need references trae, just ask :)05:16
Traetroy_s, Perhaps, through your actions and others in this community, I'll come to agree with your "design by committee" works statement.05:17
TraeHowever, in my experience, it has not been the case05:18
TraeI'll have to simply agree to disagree with you on that one point ;)05:18
TraeYeah, probably should have waited till the 27th huh?05:18
Traecourse, I have no idea what kind of craziness goes on during a release05:19
troy_sthat's fine05:20
troy_swhat is your experience?05:20
TraeI do graphics.05:20
TraeDon't know if you remember themes.org05:21
TraeIt used to be the place for Themes for X05:21
TraeI sent an image in that email to the list05:21
TraeEveryone has different styles, this is a mockup of a Drupal theme I'm probably going to implement (unless I get tired of it by the time I actually get time to build the theme)05:22
TraeI've been using Linux since 199605:22
TraeI only started using Linux because it was pretty05:22
TraeI saw a shot of Carsten's (Rasterman of E fame) fvwm-xpm and fell in love05:23
troy_sahh yes.  e is wonderful.05:23
TraeIt was the sex of that screenshot that made me fall in love with what was possible with a Desktop.05:23
TraeWish I still had that old picture...05:23
TraeI've tried and used just about every window manager on the planet05:24
TraeI use Gnome personally... but try and use KDE about once a month05:24
troy_sNeedless to say, you certainly won't have much credit when stating 'design by committee doesn't work' when you are in an open source environment.  the very tool that i type on now is entirely a byproduct of that approach.  ;)05:24
TraeDon't feel like starting a DE war05:24
Traetroy_s, please read what I wrote05:24
troy_sanyways, to give you a brief summary05:25
TraeDesign and Applications are tied yes, but... Vision is another thing.05:25
troy_svision is also collaborative?05:25
TraeOk, I will hold to my personal beliefs and work within the framework05:25
Traeis that fair?05:25
TraeI'm here to help05:26
Traenot argue or fight05:26
Traeas I stated in my email05:26
TraeI can be a solider05:26
Traeor I can lead05:26
Traeor I can be a community team working whatchawantme to do type of guy05:26
TraePerhaps, through my involvement with this project, I'll come to see and understand the wisdom you've already attained, and that is that design can work by committee05:27
TraeI personally haven't seen it in action.05:28
TraeMy best friend, Garrett, worked on the Redhat Desktop (Bluecurve?)05:28
troy_shey we are on the same page my friend.  i am quite a fan of discussing those loftier concepts.05:28
Traehe worked with me on Linux.com and taught me tons about design and interface stuffs05:28
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Traeshhh Madpilot is here05:29
troy_smy interest is in _making it work_, which is rather new in the art sphere.  it certainly has some wonderful examples of possibilities if you consider tango, etc.05:29
TraeMadpilot, ;)05:29
Madpilothi all05:29
troy_sgreetz mad.05:29
Traetroy_s, check the Tango people list05:29
Traecourse, it's been a while since I've worked on Tango stuff, I helped get it off the ground.05:30
troy_ssome of the tango celebs hang out here.05:30
MadpilotTrae, funny, just clicked on your email to the artlist05:30
Traedidn't do any graphics, but was invited05:30
Traeerr was invited to the project because a lot of the artists respect my opinion05:30
Trae(and are dear friends)05:30
troy_slapo, andreas, jimmac, etc.  although i haven't seen much from jimmac of late.05:30
Traeyah.. Jakub rox05:31
troy_swe are currently in a bit of a bind really...05:31
TraeMadpilot, hehe05:31
troy_sthe main problem is the fact that sabdfl is the authoritative 'vision' behind the art development end.05:31
TraeMadpilot, again sorry for the forward.  *sigh*  silly gmail05:31
Traetroy_s, that's a good thing! (imho :)05:31
troy_sexactly my point about your initial post ;)05:32
Traeunless sabdfl hasn't a clue as to what good design is.  But if he/she is the one that's doing stuff of late, then... we are in good hands05:32
troy_sit can work, and it can fail.05:32
Traetroy_s, as with any project.05:32
Traetroy_s, and at some point, it will fail.05:32
troy_sin particular, if you examine the dapper work05:32
Traeeverything does05:32
troy_syou can see exactly the downside of it.05:32
Traelet's just hope it's much later rather than sooner (and I believe it'll be muuuuch later)05:32
troy_swhich is very obvious design issues regarding harmony of thematic, colour, style05:32
troy_sand the most surprising thing05:33
troy_sis yet again05:33
troy_sdapper was designed by one person05:33
Traewith a disto, things can get bottlenecked as there are lots of decisions05:33
troy_sunder sab's guidance.05:33
Traebut... control is a good thing (again, IMHO) when it comes to design and look and feel.05:33
troy_sso, as per vision, there is a very clear one.  strictly design speaking, one could make a textbook analysis and argue that there are some fundamental issues with some of the execution.05:33
TraeWhat sabdfl has to impart upon us is his vision and let us carry it out in his name05:34
Traethat sounds silly after tying it05:34
troy_swell... he controls pixels.05:34
troy_shaving been through a good cycle of it, i can tell you -- you are welcome to attempt and meet the flow.05:34
Traesippin' the sab Kool-aid05:34
Traetroy_s, crazy stuff huh?05:35
troy_sultimately, what you see is about as close to perfection (in dapper) as sab would like.05:35
TraeI see lots of room for improvement personally05:35
troy_swhich, unfortunately, took a good deal to even swing the palette into alignment (albeit monochrome as it is)05:35
TraeOne idea I had... (silly me) is just like our release names05:35
Traeto have themes for each release05:35
Traeand UNTIE ourselves to this palette05:36
troy_syou and possibly 99.99993% of the population.  and that is only touching the portion that would consider themselves untrained and unqualified.05:36
Traekeep the same hues and sats...05:36
troy_sgood luck.05:36
TraeI know05:36
troy_sfundamentally, before you even begin design, i would make a pretty good case that you need a palette.05:36
troy_sbeing hue (value appropriate if you lay out a few guidelines)05:36
troy_swell ubuntu has _no such creature_05:36
troy_sand we tried to get one05:37
troy_sthis past cycle05:37
Traetroy_s, just like with any design, you have to have a palette05:37
troy_sbut were horrifically stumped.05:37
troy_sin terms of development05:37
TraePersonally, I think the best thing would be to steal Garrett LeSage from Novell05:37
troy_sthe brainstorm -> refine -> expand -> implement process simply was a complete disaster (despite working for every large design firm in existence)05:37
troy_swell kwwii is here from novell.05:38
troy_sworking on kde05:38
troy_sbut kubuntu is a different creature from ubuntu05:38
troy_sso let me stress,05:38
troy_ssabdfl calls _all_ the shots05:38
Traetroy_s, yessir05:38
Traetroy_s, well, if he's seen my post and wants my help, I'm here.05:38
troy_sand believe me, we had MUCH05:39
troy_sparticipation from very talented folks05:39
troy_sthis cycle05:39
troy_s_nothing_ was to his liking.05:39
TraeIs he a KDE person?05:39
troy_sand in the end, it resulted in a frantic rush to pixel push exactly what you see in edgy05:39
Traethat sounds like a crazy thing to ask but...05:39
troy_sthere is a pretty good paper trail if you would like to follow it.05:39
Traedon't need to reallly... I can probably get all I need to know by seeing a screenshot of his actual desktop05:40
TraeI can tell TONS about a person just from seeing how they have their own desktop set up05:40
troy_sjust look at dapper05:40
troy_sthat is darn near perfection05:40
troy_sso, i will say at the onset05:40
troy_sthat i believe we all had very lofty goals at the onset of edgy05:41
n8k99hi troy_s05:41
troy_sand i _do_ appreciate your stepping up to the plate.05:41
troy_sbecause i very much value any artist with training and experience.05:41
n8k99how goes it?05:42
troy_svery good thank you05:42
n8k99there was a rather confusing email on the list this morning05:43
n8k99sabdfl said that all the artwork in edgy was community contributed05:43
n8k99or did i read that email wrong?05:44
Traetroy_s, Well... I'm here to help on small tasks at the moment if that will help.  I know we have a long road to Fawn05:44
troy_syes you did05:44
troy_sit is correect05:44
troy_scorrect even05:44
Traeas I can, I'll try and step up if needed05:45
troy_si would like to see the team still contribute to what sab has regarding his current vision05:45
Traeif not, I'll sit back and offer my observations and they can either go to /dev/null or be of good use05:45
troy_sthat means polishing up the minute bits...05:45
troy_sif he will allow it... sometimes he is well open -- for example take the emblems05:45
troy_sthat happened overnight (unfortunately they needed some content attention regarding some of the icons chosen -- but alas, anything is good)05:46
troy_sn8k99: did you manage to get some wiki thoughts down?05:47
n8k99troy_s:no it's been heavy load here, daughter sick, uni assignments05:48
joejaxxi mean hello05:48
n8k99troy_s plus the wife's firm just picked up a heavy load05:48
n8k99time disappeared05:48
troy_stis ok.   my time is nil right now05:50
troy_sthanks to this godforsaken show.05:50
n8k99ah yes- the 18hrs of channel 105:51
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troy_sgreets pas05:53
troy_sn8k99: i will probably offer up a cross post to all the folks to see if i can muster up some braining.05:55
n8k99that sounds good05:58
n8k99going to bed  now05:59
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-artwork: Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork! For more information - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork - Hot from the oven: http://art-staging.ubuntu.com
=== Topic (#ubuntu-artwork): set by Seveas at Wed Oct 25 23:20:20 2006
imbrandonmoins fellas08:37
imbrandonahh troy_s {is,was} awake :)08:37
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troy_sgreets folks.02:05
troy_smarks latest blog entry seems to have gained a little attention02:18
troy_shilarious really.02:18
troy_spossibly the best blog entry yet, although equally heavy handed.02:19
imbrandonheya troy_s02:36
imbrandongnight folks02:45
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frandavid100didyou check the icon andreasn?07:42
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andreasnhey frandavid10008:06
andreasnfrandavid100: I'm afraid I haven't had time to look at the latest version yet08:06
andreasnI'll take a look right away08:07
frandavid100hi andreasn08:08
frandavid100it has just a few nodes08:08
frandavid100was quite easy actually08:08
andreasncool, you're getting the hang of it08:09
frandavid100I think so08:10
frandavid100still have some doubts but it's getting better08:10
andreasnI think you need to loose even more nodes in the corners08:11
andreasnlet me take a shot at it08:11
frandavid100so, what's the problem with more nodes? do they make the file heavier or something?08:11
andreasnand more for the svg renderer to keep track of08:13
frandavid100well they should have what? 3 nodes at the corners?08:13
frandavid100just one with handles?08:13
andreasnyeah, try three08:13
frandavid100I'll give it a try08:14
frandavid100could you give me again the inkscape tango icons?08:15
frandavid100I'd like to try them08:15
andreasnsure, hold on08:15
andreasnjust put them in ~/.inkscape/icons08:16
frandavid100I'm not sure I get it. the link opens in epi and it's just a huge picture08:17
andreasnsave it to your harddrive08:18
frandavid100yeah, worked :D08:19
andreasnnow go to .inkscape/icons in your home folder08:19
andreasnand copy it there08:19
frandavid100yeah it's done08:19
frandavid100looks gorgeous like this08:19
andreasnstill some rough edges in there08:20
andreasnif you want to help out, it would be great08:20
frandavid100guess inkscape and gimp's icons should be updated soon08:20
frandavid100sure, if I get a bit more practice08:21
andreasngimp have new icons in the latest release08:21
frandavid100I'd love to contribute some icons08:21
andreasnor, well, in the unstable release08:21
andreasncool, great to hear!08:21
frandavid100I'm gonna mess with the X for a while08:21
frandavid100see you now08:21
andreasncool, see ya!08:22
frandavid100is there any way to reset the handles?08:23
frandavid100well I'll try to make it clear08:24
frandavid100when you create a node08:25
frandavid100it's just a square, and acts like a corner08:25
frandavid100but you can set some handles to it, which make the lines curvy08:25
frandavid100can you delete those handles?08:25
andreasnah, and you want it straight again?08:26
andreasnselect the two nodes where there is a curve08:26
andreasnand press the 10th icon under Edit paths and nodes08:26
andreasnthe one that says "Make selected segments lines"08:27
andreasnthere are two nodes with a straight line between them08:27
frandavid100alright yeah08:28
frandavid100this is too cool08:28
frandavid100I can see myself wasting dangerous amounts of time with this :P08:28
andreasnI spend like 4 hours a day in Inkscape08:29
andreasnhm, Ubuntu ships with the regular firefox icon now08:30
frandavid100I saw some of your icons before, like the one with the blackboard08:30
frandavid100they're just too cool08:30
andreasnah, the education one08:31
andreasnit's was massively inspired by a icon by David Vignoni08:32
frandavid100don't know him, sorry08:32
frandavid100is there any way to make an object's edge fit another object?08:36
frandavid100like, automatically fix the nodes and handles08:36
andreasnnot that I know of08:40
andreasnyou could pop by #tango and ask08:40
andreasnbet there is someone in there who knows08:40
frandavid100no, just wanted to know that I wasn't doing unnecessary work08:43
frandavid100alright andreasn I took out some more nodes09:02
frandavid100it's not much lighter though09:02
andreasnneed to grab some dinner now09:07
andreasncan I take a look at it later?09:07
frandavid100I don't understand it, as many nodes as I remove it weighs over 240kb, and the accept one weighs just 40 :(09:08
andreasnFile > Vaccum defs09:08
frandavid100oh man weighs 10kb now09:08
msikmaokay guys09:11
msikmaWhich hand cursor should I keep? The one on the left or the one on the right?09:11
msikmaCurrently, I'm thinking of keeping the one on the left, but if you have good arguments for the one on the right, I might pick that one instead.09:12
HiddenWolfis there anyone here who might consider making a logo for a website which isn't ubuntu-related?09:59
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newz2000imbrandon imbrandon_: I pointed auc to art-staging. Also I've set it up so that when art.kubuntu.org is setup it will go to the right place.10:12
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msikmaandreasn: no, general-purpose.10:30
andreasnah, ok10:30
andreasnwe need more highcontrast love though10:30
andreasnwe need it bad10:30
msikmaI guess it is high contrast too10:30
msikmaI intend to make larger versions later, maybe they can act as high contrast cursors?10:30
msikmahmm... I need to fix the question mark arrow10:31
andreasnhm, yeah, a hc cursor set is cool10:34
andreasnnot sure if we have one or not right now10:34
andreasna random guess is no, as we seem to hate people with visual impairment or something for the moment10:35
andreasnlike count the number of apps having hc versions for their app icon10:36
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msikmaNow, let's see10:41
msikmawhich icons am I still missing?10:41
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msikmaI guess I might need to make the small 2px stripes (resize icons) 3px instead so it can have an opaque area10:51
msikmaI'm also wondering about the way the hand cursor is cut off... hmm.10:52
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