[01:10] <linnuxxy> i need a full resolution image of the ubuntu CD cover
[01:10] <linnuxxy> where can i find it?
[01:10] <ZirJoker> somebody send me a screenshot of his desktop
[01:12] <linnuxxy> I want to make a Ubuntu Key chain... is there any suitable images for that?
[01:49] <Trae> troy_s, you the head of this rag tag crew of space pirates?
[01:49] <Trae> :)
[01:52] <Trae> back in a sec.
[01:56] <Trae> bbl, Jericho and lost are coming on!
[01:56] <Trae> ;)
[04:36] <Trae> bah, already starting off on the wrong foot. heh.
[04:36] <Trae> gmail really needs a "Edit as New" feature.
[04:37] <Trae> Sorry about the email "forward" to the list.  I originally sent to ubuntu-art@ubuntu.com which came back to me. :)
[04:42] <troy_s> trae?  you called?
[04:42] <Trae> troy_s, howdy
[04:43] <Trae> troy_s, Just sent an email to the list announcing my availability for work
[04:43] <Trae> :)
[04:43] <Trae> Sorry about the forward... I messed up (read above)
[04:43] <Trae> thought it was simply "sending as new" so to speak.  :)
[04:45] <troy_s> great stuff
[04:45] <troy_s> unfortunately
[04:45] <troy_s> sabdfl is going to re-hire the guy who developed the dapper work
[04:46] <troy_s> so the community contributions regarding the official default work will be rather limited
[04:46] <troy_s> don't be discouraged however, there are many projects gearing up off official.
[04:47] <Trae> ahhh
[04:47] <Trae> No worries
[04:48] <Trae> odd that Mark made that recent post then.
[04:48] <Trae> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/63
[04:48] <Trae> seemed like a call to arms to me.
[04:49] <Trae> and whoeever runs ubuntu.com should fix the 1px bug that's been bugging me forever on the navigation links area
[04:49] <Trae> heh
[04:52] <Trae> http://occy.net/tmp/1px-bug-ubuntu.com.png
[05:04] <troy_s> i believe his comments were directed more at the rather silly predicament he landed us in.
[05:05] <troy_s> newz2000 is the canonical web fellow
[05:05] <troy_s> forward your issues to him
[05:05] <Trae> heh, sent it to Mark, I'm sure he'll send it to him.
[05:05] <Trae> got his email addy?
[05:06] <Trae> newz2000 {AT} ubuntu?
[05:16] <troy_s> don't waste sabs time
[05:16] <troy_s> he has a gabillion mails per day
[05:16] <troy_s> and things are very busy right now.
[05:16] <troy_s> further, design by committee works very well actually.  if you need references trae, just ask :)
[05:17] <Trae> troy_s, Perhaps, through your actions and others in this community, I'll come to agree with your "design by committee" works statement.
[05:18] <Trae> However, in my experience, it has not been the case
[05:18] <Trae> I'll have to simply agree to disagree with you on that one point ;)
[05:18] <Trae> Yeah, probably should have waited till the 27th huh?
[05:18] <Trae> ;)
[05:18] <Trae> heh
[05:19] <Trae> course, I have no idea what kind of craziness goes on during a release
[05:20] <troy_s> that's fine
[05:20] <troy_s> what is your experience?
[05:20] <Trae> well...
[05:20] <Trae> I do graphics.
[05:21] <Trae> Don't know if you remember themes.org
[05:21] <Trae> It used to be the place for Themes for X
[05:21] <Trae> I sent an image in that email to the list
[05:21] <Trae> http://occy.net/tmp/themes.net-FINAL-3.png
[05:22] <Trae> Everyone has different styles, this is a mockup of a Drupal theme I'm probably going to implement (unless I get tired of it by the time I actually get time to build the theme)
[05:22] <Trae> :)
[05:22] <Trae> I've been using Linux since 1996
[05:22] <Trae> I only started using Linux because it was pretty
[05:23] <Trae> I saw a shot of Carsten's (Rasterman of E fame) fvwm-xpm and fell in love
[05:23] <troy_s> ahh yes.  e is wonderful.
[05:23] <Trae> It was the sex of that screenshot that made me fall in love with what was possible with a Desktop.
[05:23] <Trae> Wish I still had that old picture...
[05:24] <Trae> I've tried and used just about every window manager on the planet
[05:24] <Trae> I use Gnome personally... but try and use KDE about once a month
[05:24] <troy_s> Needless to say, you certainly won't have much credit when stating 'design by committee doesn't work' when you are in an open source environment.  the very tool that i type on now is entirely a byproduct of that approach.  ;)
[05:24] <Trae> Don't feel like starting a DE war
[05:24] <Trae> troy_s, please read what I wrote
[05:25] <troy_s> anyways, to give you a brief summary
[05:25] <Trae> Design and Applications are tied yes, but... Vision is another thing.
[05:25] <troy_s> vision is also collaborative?
[05:25] <Trae> Ok, I will hold to my personal beliefs and work within the framework
[05:25] <Trae> is that fair?
[05:26] <Trae> I'm here to help
[05:26] <Trae> not argue or fight
[05:26] <Trae> as I stated in my email
[05:26] <Trae> I can be a solider
[05:26] <Trae> or I can lead
[05:26] <Trae> or I can be a community team working whatchawantme to do type of guy
[05:27] <Trae> Perhaps, through my involvement with this project, I'll come to see and understand the wisdom you've already attained, and that is that design can work by committee
[05:28] <Trae> I personally haven't seen it in action.
[05:28] <Trae> My best friend, Garrett, worked on the Redhat Desktop (Bluecurve?)
[05:28] <troy_s> hey we are on the same page my friend.  i am quite a fan of discussing those loftier concepts.
[05:28] <Trae> he worked with me on Linux.com and taught me tons about design and interface stuffs
[05:29] <Trae> shhh Madpilot is here
[05:29] <troy_s> my interest is in _making it work_, which is rather new in the art sphere.  it certainly has some wonderful examples of possibilities if you consider tango, etc.
[05:29] <Trae> Madpilot, ;)
[05:29] <Madpilot> hi all
[05:29] <troy_s> greetz mad.
[05:29] <Trae> troy_s, check the Tango people list
[05:29] <Trae> http://tango.freedesktop.org/The_People
[05:30] <Trae> course, it's been a while since I've worked on Tango stuff, I helped get it off the ground.
[05:30] <troy_s> some of the tango celebs hang out here.
[05:30] <Madpilot> Trae, funny, just clicked on your email to the artlist
[05:30] <Trae> didn't do any graphics, but was invited
[05:30] <Trae> err was invited to the project because a lot of the artists respect my opinion
[05:30] <Trae> (and are dear friends)
[05:30] <troy_s> lapo, andreas, jimmac, etc.  although i haven't seen much from jimmac of late.
[05:31] <Trae> yah.. Jakub rox
[05:31] <troy_s> we are currently in a bit of a bind really...
[05:31] <Trae> Madpilot, hehe
[05:31] <troy_s> the main problem is the fact that sabdfl is the authoritative 'vision' behind the art development end.
[05:31] <Trae> Madpilot, again sorry for the forward.  *sigh*  silly gmail
[05:31] <Trae> troy_s, that's a good thing! (imho :)
[05:32] <troy_s> exactly my point about your initial post ;)
[05:32] <Trae> unless sabdfl hasn't a clue as to what good design is.  But if he/she is the one that's doing stuff of late, then... we are in good hands
[05:32] <troy_s> it can work, and it can fail.
[05:32] <Trae> troy_s, as with any project.
[05:32] <Trae> troy_s, and at some point, it will fail.
[05:32] <troy_s> in particular, if you examine the dapper work
[05:32] <Trae> everything does
[05:32] <Trae> :)
[05:32] <troy_s> you can see exactly the downside of it.
[05:32] <Trae> let's just hope it's much later rather than sooner (and I believe it'll be muuuuch later)
[05:32] <troy_s> which is very obvious design issues regarding harmony of thematic, colour, style
[05:33] <Trae> nod
[05:33] <troy_s> and the most surprising thing
[05:33] <troy_s> is yet again
[05:33] <troy_s> dapper was designed by one person
[05:33] <Trae> with a disto, things can get bottlenecked as there are lots of decisions
[05:33] <troy_s> under sab's guidance.
[05:33] <Trae> but... control is a good thing (again, IMHO) when it comes to design and look and feel.
[05:33] <troy_s> so, as per vision, there is a very clear one.  strictly design speaking, one could make a textbook analysis and argue that there are some fundamental issues with some of the execution.
[05:34] <Trae> What sabdfl has to impart upon us is his vision and let us carry it out in his name
[05:34] <Trae> that sounds silly after tying it
[05:34] <troy_s> well... he controls pixels.
[05:34] <Trae> hehe
[05:34] <troy_s> having been through a good cycle of it, i can tell you -- you are welcome to attempt and meet the flow.
[05:34] <Trae> sippin' the sab Kool-aid
[05:34] <Trae> *chuckle*
[05:35] <Trae> troy_s, crazy stuff huh?
[05:35] <troy_s> ultimately, what you see is about as close to perfection (in dapper) as sab would like.
[05:35] <Trae> ahh
[05:35] <Trae> I see lots of room for improvement personally
[05:35] <troy_s> which, unfortunately, took a good deal to even swing the palette into alignment (albeit monochrome as it is)
[05:35] <troy_s> indeed.
[05:35] <Trae> One idea I had... (silly me) is just like our release names
[05:35] <Trae> to have themes for each release
[05:36] <Trae> and UNTIE ourselves to this palette
[05:36] <troy_s> you and possibly 99.99993% of the population.  and that is only touching the portion that would consider themselves untrained and unqualified.
[05:36] <Trae> keep the same hues and sats...
[05:36] <troy_s> good luck.
[05:36] <Trae> haha
[05:36] <Trae> I know
[05:36] <troy_s> fundamentally, before you even begin design, i would make a pretty good case that you need a palette.
[05:36] <Trae> yup
[05:36] <troy_s> being hue (value appropriate if you lay out a few guidelines)
[05:36] <troy_s> well ubuntu has _no such creature_
[05:37] <troy_s> and we tried to get one
[05:37] <troy_s> this past cycle
[05:37] <Trae> troy_s, just like with any design, you have to have a palette
[05:37] <troy_s> but were horrifically stumped.
[05:37] <troy_s> in terms of development
[05:37] <Trae> Personally, I think the best thing would be to steal Garrett LeSage from Novell
[05:37] <troy_s> the brainstorm -> refine -> expand -> implement process simply was a complete disaster (despite working for every large design firm in existence)
[05:37] <Trae> *chuckle*
[05:38] <troy_s> well kwwii is here from novell.
[05:38] <troy_s> working on kde
[05:38] <troy_s> but kubuntu is a different creature from ubuntu
[05:38] <Trae> nod
[05:38] <troy_s> so let me stress,
[05:38] <troy_s> sabdfl calls _all_ the shots
[05:38] <Trae> troy_s, yessir
[05:38] <Trae> troy_s, well, if he's seen my post and wants my help, I'm here.
[05:39] <troy_s> and believe me, we had MUCH
[05:39] <troy_s> participation from very talented folks
[05:39] <troy_s> this cycle
[05:39] <troy_s> _nothing_ was to his liking.
[05:39] <Trae> odd
[05:39] <Trae> Is he a KDE person?
[05:39] <troy_s> and in the end, it resulted in a frantic rush to pixel push exactly what you see in edgy
[05:39] <Trae> that sounds like a crazy thing to ask but...
[05:39] <troy_s> there is a pretty good paper trail if you would like to follow it.
[05:40] <Trae> don't need to reallly... I can probably get all I need to know by seeing a screenshot of his actual desktop
[05:40] <Trae> I can tell TONS about a person just from seeing how they have their own desktop set up
[05:40] <troy_s> just look at dapper
[05:40] <troy_s> ;)
[05:40] <Trae> haha
[05:40] <Trae> interesting
[05:40] <troy_s> that is darn near perfection
[05:40] <troy_s> so, i will say at the onset
[05:41] <troy_s> that i believe we all had very lofty goals at the onset of edgy
[05:41] <n8k99> hi troy_s
[05:41] <troy_s> and i _do_ appreciate your stepping up to the plate.
[05:41] <troy_s> because i very much value any artist with training and experience.
[05:42] <n8k99> how goes it?
[05:42] <troy_s> very good thank you
[05:42] <n8k99> excellent!
[05:43] <n8k99> there was a rather confusing email on the list this morning
[05:43] <n8k99> sabdfl said that all the artwork in edgy was community contributed
[05:44] <n8k99> or did i read that email wrong?
[05:44] <Trae> troy_s, Well... I'm here to help on small tasks at the moment if that will help.  I know we have a long road to Fawn
[05:44] <troy_s> yes you did
[05:44] <troy_s> it is correect
[05:44] <troy_s> correct even
[05:45] <Trae> as I can, I'll try and step up if needed
[05:45] <troy_s> yes...
[05:45] <troy_s> personally
[05:45] <troy_s> i would like to see the team still contribute to what sab has regarding his current vision
[05:45] <Trae> if not, I'll sit back and offer my observations and they can either go to /dev/null or be of good use
[05:45] <Trae> :)
[05:45] <troy_s> that means polishing up the minute bits...
[05:45] <troy_s> if he will allow it... sometimes he is well open -- for example take the emblems
[05:46] <troy_s> that happened overnight (unfortunately they needed some content attention regarding some of the icons chosen -- but alas, anything is good)
[05:47] <troy_s> n8k99: did you manage to get some wiki thoughts down?
[05:48] <n8k99> troy_s:no it's been heavy load here, daughter sick, uni assignments
[05:48] <joejaxx> hola
[05:48] <joejaxx> i mean hello
[05:48] <n8k99> troy_s plus the wife's firm just picked up a heavy load
[05:48] <n8k99> time disappeared
[05:50] <troy_s> tis ok.   my time is nil right now
[05:50] <troy_s> thanks to this godforsaken show.
[05:51] <n8k99> ah yes- the 18hrs of channel 1
[05:53] <troy_s> greets pas
[05:55] <troy_s> n8k99: i will probably offer up a cross post to all the folks to see if i can muster up some braining.
[05:58] <n8k99> that sounds good
[05:59] <n8k99> going to bed  now
[08:37] <imbrandon> moins fellas
[08:37] <imbrandon> ahh troy_s {is,was} awake :)
[12:42] <lapo> yo
[02:05] <troy_s> greets folks.
[02:18] <troy_s> wow
[02:18] <troy_s> marks latest blog entry seems to have gained a little attention
[02:18] <troy_s> hilarious really.
[02:19] <troy_s> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/63#comment-10065
[02:19] <troy_s> possibly the best blog entry yet, although equally heavy handed.
[02:36] <imbrandon> heya troy_s
[02:45] <imbrandon> gnight folks
[06:04] <lapo> yo
[07:42] <frandavid100> hellooo
[07:42] <frandavid100> didyou check the icon andreasn?
[08:06] <andreasn> hey frandavid100
[08:06] <andreasn> frandavid100: I'm afraid I haven't had time to look at the latest version yet
[08:07] <andreasn> I'll take a look right away
[08:08] <frandavid100> hi andreasn
[08:08] <frandavid100> it has just a few nodes
[08:08] <frandavid100> was quite easy actually
[08:09] <andreasn> cool, you're getting the hang of it
[08:10] <frandavid100> I think so
[08:10] <frandavid100> still have some doubts but it's getting better
[08:11] <andreasn> I think you need to loose even more nodes in the corners
[08:11] <andreasn> let me take a shot at it
[08:11] <frandavid100> so, what's the problem with more nodes? do they make the file heavier or something?
[08:12] <andreasn> yes
[08:12] <andreasn> exactly
[08:13] <andreasn> and more for the svg renderer to keep track of
[08:13] <frandavid100> well they should have what? 3 nodes at the corners?
[08:13] <frandavid100> just one with handles?
[08:13] <andreasn> yeah, try three
[08:14] <frandavid100> I'll give it a try
[08:15] <frandavid100> could you give me again the inkscape tango icons?
[08:15] <frandavid100> I'd like to try them
[08:15] <andreasn> sure, hold on
[08:15] <andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/icons.svg
[08:16] <andreasn> just put them in ~/.inkscape/icons
[08:17] <frandavid100> I'm not sure I get it. the link opens in epi and it's just a huge picture
[08:18] <andreasn> save it to your harddrive
[08:19] <frandavid100> yeah, worked :D
[08:19] <andreasn> now go to .inkscape/icons in your home folder
[08:19] <andreasn> and copy it there
[08:19] <frandavid100> yeah it's done
[08:19] <frandavid100> looks gorgeous like this
[08:20] <andreasn> still some rough edges in there
[08:20] <andreasn> if you want to help out, it would be great
[08:20] <frandavid100> guess inkscape and gimp's icons should be updated soon
[08:21] <frandavid100> sure, if I get a bit more practice
[08:21] <andreasn> gimp have new icons in the latest release
[08:21] <frandavid100> I'd love to contribute some icons
[08:21] <andreasn> or, well, in the unstable release
[08:21] <andreasn> cool, great to hear!
[08:21] <frandavid100> I'm gonna mess with the X for a while
[08:21] <frandavid100> see you now
[08:22] <andreasn> cool, see ya!
[08:23] <frandavid100> is there any way to reset the handles?
[08:24] <andreasn> reset?
[08:24] <frandavid100> well I'll try to make it clear
[08:25] <frandavid100> when you create a node
[08:25] <frandavid100> it's just a square, and acts like a corner
[08:25] <andreasn> yeah
[08:25] <frandavid100> but you can set some handles to it, which make the lines curvy
[08:25] <frandavid100> can you delete those handles?
[08:26] <andreasn> ah, and you want it straight again?
[08:26] <andreasn> select the two nodes where there is a curve
[08:26] <andreasn> and press the 10th icon under Edit paths and nodes
[08:27] <andreasn> the one that says "Make selected segments lines"
[08:27] <andreasn> there are two nodes with a straight line between them
[08:28] <frandavid100> alright yeah
[08:28] <frandavid100> this is too cool
[08:28] <frandavid100> I can see myself wasting dangerous amounts of time with this :P
[08:28] <andreasn> hehe
[08:29] <andreasn> I spend like 4 hours a day in Inkscape
[08:30] <andreasn> hm, Ubuntu ships with the regular firefox icon now
[08:30] <frandavid100> I saw some of your icons before, like the one with the blackboard
[08:30] <frandavid100> they're just too cool
[08:31] <andreasn> ah, the education one
[08:32] <andreasn> it's was massively inspired by a icon by David Vignoni
[08:32] <frandavid100> don't know him, sorry
[08:36] <frandavid100> is there any way to make an object's edge fit another object?
[08:36] <frandavid100> like, automatically fix the nodes and handles
[08:40] <andreasn> not that I know of
[08:40] <andreasn> you could pop by #tango and ask
[08:40] <andreasn> bet there is someone in there who knows
[08:43] <frandavid100> no, just wanted to know that I wasn't doing unnecessary work
[09:02] <frandavid100> alright andreasn I took out some more nodes
[09:02] <frandavid100> it's not much lighter though
[09:07] <andreasn> need to grab some dinner now
[09:07] <andreasn> can I take a look at it later?
[09:07] <frandavid100> sure
[09:08] <frandavid100> I don't understand it, as many nodes as I remove it weighs over 240kb, and the accept one weighs just 40 :(
[09:08] <andreasn> File > Vaccum defs
[09:08] <frandavid100> oh man weighs 10kb now
[09:11] <msikma> okay guys
[09:11] <msikma> Which hand cursor should I keep? The one on the left or the one on the right?
[09:11] <msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/cusorsoptimize.png
[09:12] <msikma> Currently, I'm thinking of keeping the one on the left, but if you have good arguments for the one on the right, I might pick that one instead.
[09:33] <andreasn> high-contrast?
[09:59] <HiddenWolf> is there anyone here who might consider making a logo for a website which isn't ubuntu-related?
[10:12] <newz2000> imbrandon imbrandon_: I pointed auc to art-staging. Also I've set it up so that when art.kubuntu.org is setup it will go to the right place.
[10:30] <msikma> andreasn: no, general-purpose.
[10:30] <andreasn> ah, ok
[10:30] <andreasn> we need more highcontrast love though
[10:30] <andreasn> we need it bad
[10:30] <msikma> I guess it is high contrast too
[10:30] <andreasn> :)
[10:30] <msikma> I intend to make larger versions later, maybe they can act as high contrast cursors?
[10:31] <msikma> hmm... I need to fix the question mark arrow
[10:34] <andreasn> hm, yeah, a hc cursor set is cool
[10:34] <andreasn> not sure if we have one or not right now
[10:35] <andreasn> a random guess is no, as we seem to hate people with visual impairment or something for the moment
[10:36] <andreasn> like count the number of apps having hc versions for their app icon
[10:41] <msikma> Now, let's see
[10:41] <msikma> which icons am I still missing?
[10:41] <msikma> er
[10:41] <msikma> cursors
[10:51] <msikma> I guess I might need to make the small 2px stripes (resize icons) 3px instead so it can have an opaque area
[10:51] <msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/cusorsoptimize_1.png
[10:52] <msikma> I'm also wondering about the way the hand cursor is cut off... hmm.