fdovinggnite all.12:26
ryanakcanight fdoving12:33
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freeflyingcongrats all  :)02:46
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gnomefreakjdong: ping03:42
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jdonggnomefreak: pong03:49
jdongheh :)03:49
gnomefreakjdong: you going to UDS03:57
jdonggnomefreak: no, I'm not03:57
gnomefreakok just wondering03:57
Hobbseecool, my isp added all the kubuntu and ubuntu iso's to their unmetered page already04:16
=== Hobbsee downloads it
Hobbsee[12:20]  <Hobbsee> Total Bytes received 47368 Kb (6.66%)04:21
Hobbsee[12:20]  <Hobbsee> Current speed = 402.00Kb/s, Average D/L speed = 614.97Kb/s04:21
Hobbsee[12:20]  <Hobbsee> Time Remaining 17 Minutes 56 Seconds04:21
Hobbseenice :)04:21
HobbseeRiddell: all the links in http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php are wrong - they refer to dapper04:31
Hobbseeoh wait, i cant read04:31
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Hobbseegood, bigpond got the correct file then...04:32
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Hobbseeand it came down fine.  good04:42
Jucatohi Hobbsee! :)04:42
Hobbseehey Jucato :)04:42
Jucatowhat came down fine.good? :P04:43
HobbseeJucato: kubuntu-6.10-desktop-i386.iso04:43
Jucatoah... :(04:43
HobbseeJucato: whihc my ISP has kindly decided to host already04:43
Hobbseealong with all the ubuntu ones04:43
Jucatomd5sum verified.. but the burn... didn't go well :(04:44
Hobbseei'm just burning now04:44
Hobbseei'm hoping to try this out on dad's laptop04:44
JucatoI'm seeding the alternate and desktop ISO's for 386 once I get Edgy back up :)04:44
Hobbseenice :)04:44
JucatoI'm doing something... well... crazy :P04:45
JucatoEdgy is the time to be edgy04:45
=== Hobbsee doesnt seed things
Jucatobtw, I confirmed a KOrganizer bug in LP. it's a KDE 3.5.5 actually so I put a link to the the KDE bug report04:45
Hobbseeyay :)04:46
Jucatoa fix is already available according to kde bugs. that makes 2 KDE 3.5.5 bugs with fixes already (that didn't make it)04:46
Hobbseethey'll make it into feisty then04:47
Hobbseeand there will always be bugs04:47
Jucatoheheh :)04:47
Jucatothere's also a KWin bug that I already told Tonio about. it was fixed Oct. 10. too bad the patch didn't make it to Edgy :(04:47
=== Jucato is getting that "buggy" feeling again :P
Hobbseemake sure it gets in for next time04:48
Hobbseepatches that you write are also good - ie, so all they have to do is put it in04:49
Jucatohehe I don't write patches yet :P04:49
Hobbseedebdiffs, with the kde patch included :P04:49
Jucatohm.. I though Tonio said the patches would probably be put in -updates?04:49
JucatoHobbsee: you're going to UDS? (I forgot...)04:52
HobbseeJucato: nope.  probably MV+1 though04:52
=== Hobbsee has exams and the like
Jucatothey won't get to see the queen04:52
Hobbseethey'll deal :P04:52
Hobbseebesides, it's freezing over there04:52
=== Hobbsee just heard the "success" tune from burning a cd in k3b
Jucatofunny ain't it?04:55
Hobbseei thought my laptop had gone nuts04:56
Hobbseeoh drat, dad took his laptoip04:57
HawkwindHobbsee: You better bust out the pointy stick!05:02
HobbseeHawkwind: why so?05:02
HawkwindHobbsee: Poke him with it and tell him not to take *his* laptop anymore without asking you first :)05:02
HobbseeHawkwind: heh.  it is still his.  for the moment05:02
HawkwindOr, you could just beat Jucato with it if you're bored :P05:03
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Jucatowhy me...05:04
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Hobbsee_i'd like to make a complaint05:26
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about network - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi05:26
ubotuWireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs05:26
Hobbsee!network is <alias> wifi05:26
ubotuI'll remember that, Hobbsee05:26
ubotuwifi aliases: wireless, ndiswrapper, broadcom, bcm43xx, ndis, wpa, wep, madwifi, ralink, ipw, wpa2, acx111, network - added by Seveas on 2006-07-25 23:42:0705:26
Hobbseeoh, so i did guess right05:26
Hobbseeanyway, i'd still like to make a complaint05:26
Hobbseewe dont actually include knm on the cd05:27
Hobbseeif we do, we dont do it in such a way that you can easily access it from the live cd05:27
Hobbseeand since i cant seem to make wlassistant work at all...that's not good05:28
=== Hobbsee eventually installed knm over a wired connection to the other laptop
Hobbseeoh well.  dad's wifi card is screwed.05:29
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ajmitchHobbsee! Hobbsee_!05:31
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Hobbseehey ajmitch!05:32
ajmitchand one of the Hobbsees leaves us :(05:32
Hobbseei'm only on one machine at the moment, too05:33
Hobbseefinished playing with dad's colleague's laptop05:33
Jucatothe laptop of the colleague of the dad of Hobbsee...05:35
Hobbseethe colleague left the company, so dad got the laptop, for being the closest.  oh, and i got the ram :D05:35
=== Jucato wished he had a laptop, but wouldn't know what he would use it for...
Hobbseecurrently the house has 5 computers.  or did, as of last night.05:37
Hobbseefor three people, that's kinda scary :P05:37
Hobbsee(most of them arent ours)05:37
Jucatokinda fun too :)05:37
Hobbseenixternal: ping?05:38
Jucatobtw Hobbsee, is it possible to have Edgy installed and be packaging/developing for Feisty on the same system? maybe Feisty on a separate partition?05:38
HobbseeJucato: sure.  dual, or tripple boot05:38
Hobbseethe only limit on how many OS' you can have is based on hard disk space05:38
Jucatoum.. without having to reboot again and again?05:38
=== Hobbsee routinely tripple boots
Hobbseeer, vmware05:39
Jucatohow about chroot stuff?05:39
Hobbseeof course, if you're building things for feisty, why not just use a pbuilder/chroot?05:39
Hobbseeyou can run X-based apps in the chroot too, if you want05:39
Jucatook that's what I was looking for :)05:39
nixternalHobbsee: pong05:39
=== Jucato wonders if he could also do pbuilder/chroot for KDE4...
Hobbseenixternal: bug 68521? 05:40
UbugtuMalone bug 68521 in kubuntu-docs "Kubuntu release notes refer to Firefox 2.0 which isn't included" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6852105:40
HobbseeJucato: er?  i think you misunderstand the idea of a chroot05:40
JucatoHobbsee: I obviously did :)05:40
Jucatonvm the rantings of a developer-wannabe...05:40
nixternalshe has a point there, what to do05:40
HobbseeJucato: pbuilder/chroots, to my knowledge, do releases - so you can have a feisty chroot, an edgy chroot, etch chrood, sid chroot, etc05:40
Hobbseenixternal: where are the release notes?05:41
Hobbseenixternal: distributed on the cds?05:41
JucatoKDE Help Center? Kubuntu Documents?05:41
nixternalkubuntu docs yes, so khelpcenter05:41
Hobbseeso you cant change them, obviously.  unless its' in updates, but that's beside the point.  by the time they've updated, they wont be reading the documentation05:43
ajmitchHobbsee: upgraded to feisty?05:51
Hobbseeajmitch: not as yet.  i should though05:51
JucatoHobbsee: feisty's open already?05:53
Hobbseeajmitch: now look waht you've done :P05:53
HobbseeJucato: sure!  now get bugfixing!05:53
Jucatook I'll stay quiet05:53
Jucatowell it wasn't open yet last night... so...05:54
=== Jucato shrugs and keeps quiet...
HobbseeJucato: it wont be open for a while05:56
HobbseeJucato: and they'll have to build the toolchain first05:56
Jucatothat's why I was asking... (more of a surprised question...)05:56
HobbseeJucato: most people ask that immediately - on the forums too05:59
Hobbseeajmitch: i have an evil idea.06:00
JucatoHobbsee: heh.. well, I'm not like *most* people... I'm weird... :P06:00
=== Hobbsee is weirder still
Jucatooh no doubt about that :D06:01
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=== Hobbsee twirls her long pointy stick around
ajmitchHobbsee: what a surprise06:04
Hobbseeajmitch: an idea about "spreading misinformation on the forums, seeing as how there is so much there already"06:05
ajmitchwhat sort of misinformation?06:05
Jucatoyeah... gang up on the forums :P06:06
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Hobbseeajmitch: along the lines of "yes, feisty repos are open" or something06:26
ajmitch"feisty's just great, isn't it?"06:28
nixternal[22:53:19]  <Jucato> Hobbsee: feisty's open already?06:28
Hobbseeajmitch: yep!06:28
Hobbseenixternal: :D06:28
ajmitchwell they're *partly* open06:28
nixternaldamn, he left before i could make fun of him06:28
nixternalfor gcc and what not06:28
ajmitchfor a very limited base set of pakages06:28
Hobbseeajmitch: in that the feisty pbuilders may build?06:28
ajmitchkernel has been uploaded06:28
nixternalopen for the "under the hood" type stuff06:28
Hobbseeajmitch: when should they finish the toolchain?06:29
ajmitch16:14 -!- BenC changed the topic of #ubuntu-kernel to: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryKernel |06:29
ajmitch          2.6.19-1.1 uploaded. Don't use it, it's for bootstrapping only06:29
nixternalgcc, kernel, glibc the fun stuff06:29
ajmitchHobbsee: no idea06:29
ajmitchbe patient06:29
Hobbseeajmitch: starting merging early would be good :P06:29
ajmitchback later :)06:29
Hobbseewhich was what i was thinking of06:29
nixternalhehe, Hobbsee we can get a start on it tonight06:29
Hobbseenixternal: not if most things arent there - they'll just break06:29
nixternalyou take a through m, and i will take n through z06:29
Hobbseenixternal: besides, i'm not working without MOM06:29
=== Hobbsee hates to think of hwo many packages she'll have to merge again
nixternaloh ya, mom would be nice06:30
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nixternalwb imbrandon06:40
nixternalyou didn't sleep long06:40
Hobbseehey imbrandon!  06:42
freeflyinghi Hobbsee nixternal imbrandon 06:42
Hobbseehi freeflying 06:42
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nixternalhiy freeflying06:45
nixternal!seen mornfall06:45
ubotumornfall is on IRC right now!06:45
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freeflyingdo u have a presentation for edgy, there will be a release party next week in Beijing07:29
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mhb_good morning09:46
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Hobbseehey mhb_ 09:49
=== danimo yawns
Hobbseeheya danimo 09:50
mhb_sorry that I'm twice here but I have some trouble getting to my server (note: never buy D-Link modems again)09:51
Hobbseedlinks should be good09:53
=== Hobbsee has a dlink wifi card
Hobbseemhb_: i doubt its' a problem09:54
danimodlink is the root of all evil (tm)09:54
mhb_Hobbsee: the modems are dropping ssh connections randomly09:54
Hobbseedanimo: nooo!  marvell is.09:54
Hobbseedanimo: my dlink card works without fail, without ndiswrapper pain.  i'll not hear a work against dlink.09:55
mhb_Hobbsee: they had trouble because they use linux in their router/modems but they refused to release the source code (IIRC)09:55
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Hobbseemhb_: ahhh10:04
imbrandonheya Hobbsee, moins el10:05
imbrandonand *10:05
imbrandonvery stormy here10:05
Hobbseehi imbrandon!  got the new amarok done yet?10:05
imbrandonits compiling on ppc now10:05
elmoin imbrandon, moin Hobbsee :)10:05
imbrandonbut amd64 and i386 yea10:06
Hobbseehey el!10:06
Hobbseeimbrandon: nice :)10:06
=== el is soo tired.... *yawn*
imbrandoni cant give it out just yet though Hobbsee shhhhhhh10:06
imbrandonel, yea coffee !!!10:06
Hobbseeimbrandon: yeah, fair enough10:06
=== Hobbsee would test it, but her sound is playing up again
imbrandonHobbsee, wel i can give it to you , but you know what i mean heh10:07
Hobbseeimbrandon: yeah.  it cant leak10:07
=== Hobbsee wonders why some guy in #kubuntu has /queried her, and appears to want to chat
imbrandonsides its not like you dont have access to the same tarball as I :)10:08
=== Hobbsee only wrote 1 thing in #kubuntu in hte last hour or so!
imbrandonman its storming pretty good here10:08
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Hobbseeimbrandon: so we can expect you to vanish as you lose power?10:13
imbrandoni hope not10:13
imbrandonwell my irc client is on an ups, but that dont help as i wont be able to type lol10:14
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crimsunI _love_ sound issues.  *sigh*10:17
Hobbseecrimsun: hehe.  10:17
imbrandonheya crimsun10:18
imbrandonheh i bet10:18
danimo29GB of Ubuntu mirrored :)10:23
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two-facewhat is the way to get always in sync with the devlopment version?11:08
Hobbseeer, run the development version?11:09
two-facewhere do you point to?11:10
two-faceyou need to change the sources.list everytime a new dev version starts, don't you?11:10
Hobbseethere are chroots and stuff as well, which is useful11:15
Hobbseeseeing as things tend to break11:15
two-facedo they?11:16
Hobbseein developmetn?  of course11:16
Tm_Tb0rkage <311:17
two-faceit depends how annoying11:17
two-faceTm_T: <3 ?11:18
HobbseeTm_T: it's already feeling weird to not be running a development version11:18
crimsunoh don't worry, plenty of bugs abound to make it seem beta still!11:19
Tm_THobbsee: Indeed.11:20
=== hunger is booored. No new debs (== new and exciting ways to screw up my system;-) for days.
imbrandonHobbsee, woot " dpkg-deb: building package `amarok' in `../amarok_1.4.4-0ubuntu1_i386.deb'. "11:20
Tm_Ttwo-face: Heart, you know. ;)11:20
Hobbseeimbrandon: yay :)11:21
Hobbseehunger: i know!  so sad.11:21
two-faceTm_T: still not getting it :)11:21
imbrandonhunger, unless you make/break them your self heh11:21
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Tm_Ttwo-face: Start using 'feisty' repositories from first weeks, and you will soon get it. ;)11:23
two-faceI'll think about it11:26
hungerWell, I am optimistic that feisty will become very interesting again;-)11:26
=== hunger is looking forward to the upstartification of the boot process.
Tm_TMe too11:27
Tm_TAnd all that transition breakage. <311:27
Tm_TRebooting like russian roulette.11:27
hungerMaybe I can even sneak in my cryptodisks script that I try to get into ubuntu since hoary:-)11:28
two-facewhat compared to debian unstable?11:28
=== hunger admits being too lazy to push it for edgy with the rewrite for upstart on the horizont.
hungertwo-face: debian has no upstart:-) it uses the tried and true sysv-init.11:29
hungertwo-face: debian can only break one init-script or another... upstart can screw up all of them at the same time;-)11:30
two-facei mean stability11:30
two-faceof the dev version11:30
Tm_TShould be reasonable, though gcc/xorg transitions might hit in time to time.11:30
hungertwo-face: I got 3 or 4 total screwups following edgy. I used to get the same number on debian unstable.11:30
hungertwo-face: debian/unstable release cycles are longer... so there is more time inbetween screwups... some people might call that more stable.11:31
two-facehunger: alright, i'm pondering :p11:31
hungertwo-face: but usually those screwups are pretty easy to fix (in ubuntu and debian), so I am not really worried.11:32
two-facehunger: i'm a debian dev so I can get along with it11:32
Tm_Ttwo-face: Nicve. :)11:33
hungertwo-face: I am just a user, here and on debian.11:33
=== Tm_T thinks with more collaboration between disrtos we get better products.
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Tm_THmm, not sure I did choose right words to describe my meaning.11:34
two-facehunger: so what's better with upstart?11:37
Tm_Tspeed++ atleast.11:40
hungertwo-face: It is a different system.11:40
hungertwo-face: upstart is event-based: It executes scripts in response to events comming in.11:40
hungertwo-face: Events are things like "sytem-started-to-boot" or successful/unsuccessful execution of startup scripts, heartbeat failures, network connections starting to come in, udev, cron, etc.11:41
hungertwo-face: It promises to unify several distinct systems in a classical unix env into one central service. Should make administration somewhat nicer. And it is supposed to speed up system boot, too.11:42
two-faceinteresting thanks11:43
two-facei'm off now11:44
hungerDamn... all the upstart links I had are no longer functional.11:45
cmvohunger: http://upstart.ubuntu.com11:47
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Tm_THmh, how deb version comparison was done?11:59
imbrandonTm_T, dpkg --compare-versions ?12:25
Tm_THmm, that's the one, but it doesn't seem to work very well.12:26
imbrandonhows that?12:26
Tm_T"dpkg --compare-versions 4:3.5.5a-2 > 8:4.5.5-1" should work?12:27
imbrandondpkg --compare-versions 3 gt 2 && echo yes, ladies12:27
imbrandondpkg --compare-versions 1 gt 2 && echo yes, ladies12:27
imbrandongreater than , gt, lt , eq12:27
Tm_TI see.12:28
Tm_TMe stupid, I think I did read manual a bit too fast.12:29
imbrandonlol, nah12:30
SimeRiddell: did someone just hack dot.kde.org?12:30
imbrandonSime, looks normal to me12:30
Simeimbrandon: try posting.12:31
Simeimbrandon: replying I mean.12:31
Jucatohi Sime! congrats on the nice job btw :)12:31
=== Jucato totally forgot about the Dot...
SimeJucato: thanks12:35
SimeI guess Riddell is either sleeping or dead.12:37
Jucatohopefully just sleeping :)12:37
Tm_T...so why these flies then?12:38
=== Tm_T hides
imbrandonSime, hrm i posted a reply just now12:41
imbrandonseems fine also12:41
imbrandonwhat are you noticing ?12:41
Simefrom home it works fine, but from here at work...12:44
SimeI'll try to screenshot it.12:44
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mhb_Sime: he deserves a rest, I guess12:51
Simethis is what I get when I try to post from work.12:52
imbrandonsure, thats normal if your not logged in, click <moot>12:53
imbrandonlike it says12:53
kwwiihehe, nice screenshot12:53
imbrandonheya kwwii :)12:54
Simethat's considered normal!?12:55
Tm_TSime: Well well well, some router + dns hacked. =)12:55
imbrandonSime, yes, you need to click <moot> to say your not a bot12:55
Tm_Timbrandon: ssshht!12:56
SimeI guess my problem is that it looks too l33t.12:56
JucatoSime: I was just wondering if there would be a sort of wiki page explaining the changes made to media/ and / (hidden-root). So far, there have been no questions in IRC, but there are some in the forums (and in dot.kde)12:57
SimeJucato: I guess I can write one later today. (unless someone else jumps in before me).12:59
JucatoSime: that'd be great! so I'd have something to point to when people ask. right now I point to your blog, but I don't think people would like to see all the discussions there :P01:00
Jucatobtw, I made an ubotu factoid just in case someone asks about it.01:01
ubotuKubuntu Edgy has implemented a new feature that hides most of the filesystem. To view them, go to / (root) and select "Show hidden files" in the View menu. To change which directories are hidden, you can edit "/etc/kubuntu-default-settings/hidden-root" and remove the names of directories you want to make visible again. For more info: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKDEMedia and http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/223101:01
Jucatoit's !hidden and !hidden-root01:01
imbrandonthey should edit the symlink not the actualy file01:01
imbrandonincase it changes01:01
Jucatoah ok. so edit /.hidden instead?01:02
Jucatook I'll edit01:02
Simeit's it the file itself?? and not the symlink?01:02
imbrandonsymlinks are subject to change, and later might be setup in alternatives01:02
imbrandone.g. sudo nano /.hidden01:02
imbrandonso if we cahnge the location of the file its not a big deal01:03
Jucatoah. that's logical :)01:03
Simeok, as long as people don't delete the symlink; It will came back in a later update. The file is a config file though.01:03
imbrandoni plan on adding an alternative option for it in feisty01:03
imbrandonright if they want it blank they should just empty the file, not delete it01:03
imbrandonbut i'm working on right now a laternatives for all the "oposers" to change via "sudo update-alternatives showhidden" etc etc etc via feisty01:04
Jucato"oposers" :)01:05
Jucatothat'd be great :)01:05
imbrandonno actualy it would suck ass , its a loud minority, those that think they know better by mounting via hand to /mnt not the recomended way via /media01:05
imbrandonbut anyhow i'm not getting into that01:06
Jucatoimbrandon: shoud I add a "do not delete the file" statement, too?01:06
Jucatowell, like I said before, the loudest people are the ones who complain :)01:06
imbrandonJucato, why ? anyone that has a need to edit the file has the understanding to not delete it, thats my whole popint, new users shouldent be editing it01:06
imbrandonJucato, yes and its those that you quickly scold and tell to shut the fuck up01:07
Jucatowell, some people who have had experienced this new feature tell to delete the file01:07
imbrandonthen they are the ones prone to break their system by editing things they need not01:08
imbrandonyou will never teach those people01:08
SimeI think that the complaining will die down quite quickly. I was expecting worse...01:08
Jucatoyeah... anyway I'm leaving the factoid as it is. just edited the part about editing /.hidden01:09
imbrandonactualy i have seen alot of good responses on dot.kde.org, very very very few complain01:09
JucatoSime: actually me too. I'm quite surprised no one has been complaining in IRC yet01:09
imbrandonJucato, why are you suprised, like i said it affects very few people 01:09
Jucatomost of the complaints are coming from imbrandon's favorite online place :)01:09
imbrandona few corner cases01:10
imbrandonexactly, now see why i hate that bane of the internet?01:10
Jucatospecially those who keep on mounting stuff at /mnt :P01:10
Simefor such a big visual change, it has been well received, and understood by most people.01:10
Jucatoor maybe some haven't even noticed... they're probably used to direct "kdesu kate /foo" or "sudo nano /foo"01:10
mhb_Sime: is it documented on the wiki already?01:11
mhb_Sime: some FAQ about it?01:11
imbrandonJucato, and as i have said many times, the way to "fix" the problem is not to tell them how to edit the file or weather to delete it or not, its to fucking inform them MOUNT THE SHIT IN THE RIGHT PLACE :)01:11
mhb_imbrandon: we should provide some FAQ which we could point to01:11
Jucatoimbrandon: yeah. (although I don't know the difference between mounting in /mnt and /media)....01:11
imbrandonmhb a faq about how to mount drives?01:11
Jucatomhb_: Sime said he'd be making a wiki01:11
imbrandonJucato, /mnt is the old old way 01:12
Simemhb_: read the irc backlog (if you've got it :-) )01:12
mhb_imbrandon: no, the other one01:12
mhb_Sime: yeah, but not accessible today01:12
mhb_imbrandon: the thing Sime is making, if I understand correctly01:12
mhb_imbrandon: good then :o)01:13
Sime..unless someone beats me to it. ;-)01:13
Simehint hint01:13
imbrandonmhb , yes i knew what you ment, i was being sarcastic in that i feel its a waiste of time , better spent informing the loud minority of abusers to do things the right way01:13
mhb_imbrandon: if you point the minority to a FAQ you waste even less time01:14
mhb_imbrandon: that's what I meant01:14
Jucatothat's why I made the factoid :P01:14
JucatoI'd hate having to argue/talk abut it01:14
imbrandonmhb that solves nothing, becouse in the long run they will still mount /mnt and complain they have to edit the /.hidden01:14
Jucatobtw, I tested editing /.hidden to show /mnt again, and it works in Amarok's Build Collection. got to remember to reply to that thread...01:15
imbrandonbtw , yea please reply to it telling the user to mount his partition in /media like it should be01:15
imbrandonJucato, ^01:15
imbrandonthats the correct "fix"01:16
Jucatowill do :)01:16
mhb_imbrandon: well they will, but we don't need to repeat 1000times why Kubuntu is like this and like that01:17
imbrandonshort term fix will bite you in the long run, not good, point them to a faq about mounting partitions01:18
mhb_imbrandon: didn't mean the mounting partitions thing but the /.hidden stuff01:19
mhb_imbrandon: before Sime decided to make a page (or so I understood) there was almost nothing about it01:19
imbrandonmhb .hidden only seems to need to be explained to idiots that comlain about stuff in /mnt thus the "root" of the problem01:19
Jucatomhb_: there was, but in Sime's blog01:19
imbrandonmhb no there are 2 very comprehensive pages about the changes01:20
imbrandonfor those that want the "details" just for the sake of details01:20
imbrandonthose that need it "explained" are becouse they are mounting the wrong way01:20
Jucatoimbrandon: actually another "complaint" about it is implementing/hiding features without informing users, or just plainly hinding things...01:20
imbrandonJucato, so to install digikam by default we need to get every users concent? that makes no sense and is just a gripe Jucato01:21
Jucatoimbrandon: I think what mhb_ is looking for (which I'm probably looking for, too) is a doc that explains why it was done, how it was done, and how to get around it01:21
Jucatoimbrandon: of course not. at least something telling them that this was done. there was no mention of it anywhere in any of the release notes01:22
imbrandonJucato, sure then make one on why libnjb is compiled into amarok in edgy, why digikam is installed by default ..... want me to go on?01:22
Jucatoum... those are probably not as "controversial" or "big" as this one... but ok... I'll stop...01:23
imbrandonJucato, basicly becouse its a non-issue that a few ( 3 or 4 ) users are comlaining about becosue they are doing sometihng wrong, why would a simple change need a pressrelease01:23
imbrandonyes they are, they are just as "contriversial" as any other non-issue01:23
imbrandonit just dosent effect the "moaners" , but you wont beleave how many people bitch about extra libs installed that they dont use01:24
mhb_imbrandon: at least 10+ users complained about it when I asked them in my blog (in Czech)01:24
mhb_imbrandon: I think you're telling everyone to STFU which is not very Ubuntu-ish :o)) (no offence)01:24
imbrandonmhb , nice 10+ out of 12 million plus installs , very very very small percentage, thus my non-issue stance01:24
imbrandoni'm not telling everyone to STFU, i'm telling you to let them know how to fix it the "correct way" not some half baked hot-fix01:25
mhb_imbrandon: point me to a page where it is described which file in /etc you should change for disabling the /.hidden01:25
mhb_imbrandon: please01:25
imbrandonmhb there isnt one, nor there needs to be, point me to a page describing how to get rid of libnjb from amarok becouse i dont have a nomad player01:26
imbrandonsee my point ?01:26
mhb_imbrandon: doesn't affect everyone, thus I can't01:26
mhb_imbrandon: there should be one01:26
imbrandonmhb and .hidden dosent effect everyone either, only those whom mount things wrong01:27
mhb_imbrandon: or like things not hidden01:27
imbrandonsure, then  its simply sudo nano /.hidden, why a faq for one command ?01:27
imbrandoni garentee someone that dosent "like" more libs installed cant run one command01:28
mhb_imbrandon: we should describe why we did this, how we did this and how to get rid of that (and why deleting /.hidden is not a good fix)01:29
mhb_imbrandon: yes, most of that is in Sime's blog, but that's no official doc01:29
imbrandonmhb not really, i dont think its worth the time spent on it, name a good reason ?01:31
mhb_imbrandon: how should I know rm /.hidden is a bad fix?01:31
imbrandonwhy shoudl i explain that any more than including libnjb01:31
imbrandonmhb if you have any reason to rm .hidden then you know that symlinks arent the real file01:32
Jucato"why did we hide the filesystem?"01:32
imbrandonif you dont know that then you should really be thinking about why you need .hidden gone01:32
alleeimbrandon: as long as the .hidden is not to en/disable like dot-file in file dialog and konqueror, it's a usability bug that need to be fixed.  It's not about your/my taste, refering people to command line is not a fix, otherwise you can argue KDE away in favour of the shell ;)01:32
imbrandonallee, it is, "show hidden files"01:32
mhb_allee: it's not a bug, imbrandon is right about that01:33
alleeoh, isn't this for dot-files.01:33
kwwiiahhh, features and power-users01:33
mhb_allee: but he will have to explain it 100 times01:33
imbrandonallee, .hidden and dot files can both be shown01:33
mhb_allee: and he's quite happy about it :o) 01:33
Jucatokwwii: hehehe :)01:33
imbrandonmhb no i wont thats where your wrong, the only ones that ask have another root problem or are trolling is what i'm getting at01:34
imbrandonfix the root problem and ignore the trolls01:34
alleemhb_: explaining it 100 times is no problem ;)  We had/have to do it for sudo still ;)01:34
imbrandonallee, exactly01:34
imbrandonmoins kwwii01:35
mhb_kwwii: hi01:35
kwwiihi mhb_01:36
mhb_imbrandon: if you insist :o) after all,it's your temper, not mine :o)01:36
mhb_imbrandon: I'll write a FAQ for the Czech users at least :o) 01:36
imbrandonmhb :)01:37
imbrandonand i will get back to writing a kcontrol module to edit the .hidden and informing users to MOUNT IN THE CORRECT PLACE01:37
Jucatomhb_: and Sime will still try to write a wiki probably :)01:37
imbrandonfaq == short term , bite you with more questions .... other fixes the issue01:38
Jucatoimbrandon: ooh.. kcontrol module? nice :)01:38
mhb_imbrandon: hm, I wanted to do that, but Riddell said it would not likely be accepted ... interesting01:38
mhb_imbrandon: but if you have this blessing I support you all the way :o)01:40
imbrandoni wasent aware anyone needed blessing from Riddell to work on a project ? dont get me wrong Riddell is the man but ummmm .... i dont quite understand your statement01:41
imbrandonif i do it and its not in "official" kubuntu thats one thing, but ummm that dosent stop anything hehe01:42
mhb_imbrandon: that's what I meant :o)01:42
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imbrandonmhb , well not to take anything away from Riddell as he has the final say on what is or isnt in kubuntu but there are many , including me and you and kwwii and allee and Hobbsee and coutless others that work on things :)01:43
imbrandonsome make it in , many others do not, but that dosent stop anyone or anything :)01:44
mhb_imbrandon: I just tend to ask around before starting anything01:44
mhb_imbrandon: that's my way, if you want to do something just for yourself you can, of course :o)01:45
mhb_imbrandon: I don't criticise you, I just remembered I asked Riddell about it ... nothing more01:45
imbrandonhehe i know01:45
imbrandonmhb as you well know ( and many others ) i get "excited" easy , take it with some salt , its all good in the hood01:46
mhb_imbrandon: ok :o) keep on doing whatever you like, that's the best way01:47
imbrandonkwwii, http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss113.png <--- we going to try again to get Riddell to sucum to the kmenu in my screenshot ?01:49
imbrandon( at mountain view hehe )01:49
Tm_Timbrandon: Aaah, oxygen!01:50
imbrandonTm_T, yes oxygen :)01:50
=== Riddell likes default kmenu
imbrandonhehe moins Riddell01:52
Tm_TWhat is default kmenu?01:52
kwwiihi Riddell01:52
imbrandonRiddell, but you cant blame me for trying01:52
=== Tm_T can't remember
=== allee feels honoured that imbrandon mentioned him, considering allee's inactively the last months
kwwiiI think that the problem with using the kubuntu logo there is that it does not visually tell me that it is a menu01:56
kwwiiI think the kde logo has the same problem though01:57
mhb_kwwii: that's what I wanted to say01:57
imbrandonkwwii, yea 01:57
mhb_kwwii: is it going to change in O. ?01:57
mhb_(the K menu icon)01:57
kwwiino idea01:58
Hobbseemorning Riddell 01:58
mhb_Riddell: your biggest fan welcomes you :o)02:00
Hobbseemhb_: if that was in reference to me....02:01
Hobbseethen i will *certainly* use my long pointy stick of doom on you.02:02
Hobbseeimbrandon: that icon is very dark.  lighter, and it would be good.02:02
imbrandoni just took the orig and shrinked it, but yea02:03
Jucatoimbrandon: me likey :)02:03
mhb_Hobbsee: nope02:04
Hobbseemhb_: oh good.02:04
mhb_Hobbsee: don't you know I'm his biggest fan? :o)02:04
Jucatobut kwwii's right about it not looking like a menu/button :)02:04
=== Hobbsee has already had enough rubbish in #ubuntu-devel for her patience level to be down
=== Hobbsee goes off to do the dishes.
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bddebianHi Hobbsee03:25
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Tm_THi Hobbsee.03:44
Hobbseehey Tm_T :)03:45
Hobbseegoldenear: kontact is in kdepim03:46
Hobbseegoldenear: the bug report you just filed?03:47
goldenearah ok...03:47
=== Hobbsee fixed it
Hobbseegoldenear: (yes, i'm omnipresent, so know that you just filed a bug, and what it contains :P)03:47
goldenearlaunch pad propose me to fill the bug in kontact package after a search... but kdepim it ok :)03:48
goldenearHobbsee: are you a goddess or something ?03:48
Hobbseegoldenear: indeed.  well, so people say.03:48
goldenearand How many bugs do we have to sacrify to make you happy ? :D03:49
mhb_Hobbsee: the goddess of hope, the goddess of brown, the goddess of all that you've burned to the ground ... (can't help myself)03:49
Hobbseegoldenear: to sacrify?  to fix, more like it!03:50
Hobbseegoldenear: all of them :P03:50
Hobbseemhb_: why the goddess of brown?  last i knew, i wasnt the goddess of ubuntu03:50
mhb_Hobbsee: it's a song nobody knows03:51
goldenear[15:47]  * Hobbsee fixed it <-- you mean you've already fix the bug or only the lauchpad entry ?03:53
Hobbseegoldenear: i fixed the LP entry.03:53
Hobbseegoldenear: i dont fix things in kdepim :P03:53
goldenearyou're not a very powerfull goddess then :p03:55
=== Tm_T hides
Tm_THide are sharp objects!03:55
ubotuPlease don't use public away messages or change your nick to 'someone|away'.  We know you're away when you don't respond to messages. Also see !guidelines03:56
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Tm_TI forgot how funny it can be under medication.03:58
Tm_TOh well, fixing my back. ->03:58
=== Hobbsee whinges over not having irssi installed on the live cd.
Hobbseeoh yeah, guess we do have konvi04:07
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Tm_THobbsee: Unusable when you have problems with X though.04:14
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Hobbsee_Tm_T: true that04:22
Hobbseehmmm.  i wonder if knetworkmanager just doesnt work on the live cd at all04:22
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Simeconcerning that "Hidden Files" wiki page that I'm supposed to be writing. What should it be linked from?04:35
jucatono response :)04:37
mhb_Sime: some release notes, I guess04:38
mhb_Sime: or What's New (if there is such a page)04:38
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MidMarkis there a chance for that error? -> http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0569qy1.jpg04:52
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HobbseeMidMark: that's not an error04:53
Simemhb_: it is not very clear where it should go.04:53
HobbseeMidMark: well, what are you meaning is an error?04:53
MidMarkHobbsee: but a friend of mine cannot boot edgy04:53
MidMarkand this is the screenshot with nosplah flag04:53
HobbseeMidMark: that's booted, and dropped into a virtual terminal.04:53
=== Hobbsee notes that that's intended behaviour, for a boot with nosplash.
Hobbseeor do you get an X when you boot with nosplash?04:54
Hobbseei didnt think so04:54
MidMarkI don't know04:54
MidMarknosplash should give X or not?04:54
Hobbseeit doesnt usually, last i checked04:54
MidMarkso how can I check for errors during boot?04:55
MidMarkwhich flags?04:55
MidMarkbecause live cd freeze04:55
Hobbseecheck /var/log/syslog04:55
MidMarkhow can I do if it freeze?04:55
Hobbseeand boot in recovery mode04:55
Hobbseeit should automatically get written to.04:55
Hobbseei think alt+a+sys req or something forces it to write to the file04:56
MidMarkrecovery mode=safe graphic?04:56
Hobbseerecovery mode = no graphics04:57
MidMarkI need the parameter that tell me how to boot a live cd but ONLY without splash screen, just to see error04:58
Hobbseeoh, a live cd..04:59
Hobbseeyeah, try safe graphics04:59
=== Hobbsee keeps forgetting that the cds dont have a diagnostic mode per se, anymore
MidMarkit's a shame that kubuntu doesn't let to just hit ESC and see what is printed by kernel and other stuff05:00
MidMarkit's a painful to understand why it's freezing05:00
jucatoI thought pressing Ctrl+Alt+F1 will let you see the boot process, even with USplash running? iirc...05:01
=== Hobbsee beds
Hobbseejucato: not anymore, particualrly05:01
jucatonight Hobbsee!05:01
Hobbseeand there is something that gives a semi-verbose mode05:01
Hobbseeor something05:01
=== Hobbsee doesnt remember at this time of night
MidMarkok thanx05:01
mhb_Sime: do you have it ready?05:02
Simemhb_: I was working on it. :)05:02
mhb_Sime: the wiki page, I mean05:02
SimeI was writing the text here first.05:02
mhb_Sime: oh, ok05:03
MidMarkbuys how can I check errors printed on boot if boot freeze?05:09
mhb_MidMark: if you boot the Recovery mode you should see them right away05:11
MidMarkI'm in a live cd, what is revocery mode for you?05:12
MidMarksafe graphics?05:12
mhb_one moment05:13
mhb_MidMark: not safe graphics05:21
MidMarkso what?05:21
MidMarkhow can I access to recovery mode?05:22
mhb_MidMark: got it :o)05:23
mhb_MidMark: choose other options05:23
mhb_MidMark: F6 I think05:23
mhb_MidMark: then remove the "quiet" option and the "splash" option and add "nosplash"05:24
Simemhb_: ping05:24
mhb_Sime: great, thanks05:24
mhb_Sime: I appreciate both the fix and the wiki05:24
mhb_Sime: someone noted that this may not be in accordance with the FHS ... was that problem resolved?05:26
Simemhb_: why would it be a problem? having a file in / ?05:27
imbrandonhum anyone know whom John Tapsell is ?05:27
mhb_Sime: I think it was fdoving ... yes, having a "special" file in /05:27
mhb_Sime: quote: " Applications must never create or require special files or subdirectories in05:28
mhb_enough flexibility for any package.05:28
mhb_the root directory. Other locations in the FHS hierarchy provide more than05:28
mhb_and sorry about the "\n"s05:28
Simemhb_: I don't think the FHS applies to this case.05:28
imbrandonthat was solved when it moved to /etc/ and symlinked wasent it05:28
mhb_imbrandon: well symlink is a "special" file, AFAIK05:29
SimeI don't think the FHS people has this in mind when they thought that rule up.05:29
Simeit is not created by an application either.05:29
Simenor is it required.05:29
Jucatobut aren't there also a vmlinuz and a initrd.img symlink in /05:30
Simecan someone link that page in somewhere.05:30
mhb_Sime: dpkg can be considered an application :o) 05:30
SimeJucato: yeah, I saw that too. :-/05:30
mhb_Sime: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.txt.gz05:30
JucatoSime: is it ok if I use that wiki for the bot factoid?05:31
mhb_Sime: but I agree, it's no big deal05:31
SimeJucato: doesn't worry me.05:31
ubotuKubuntu Edgy has implemented a new feature that hides most of the filesystem. For more information: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHiddenFiles05:33
Jucatonow it looks shorter :D05:33
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MidMarkmhb_: ok, it hangs here -> http://img312.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0572gs6.jpg05:49
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fdovinggah.. another bug with the .hidden stuff.06:02
Simefdoving: what's up?06:02
Jucatowhat's the bug this time? :)06:03
fdovingSime: open the konq in file manager mode, press F9 to get the sidebar choose root directory (red folder)06:03
fdovingeven with hidden files shown you will only have /home and /media in the directory tree.06:04
fdovingthat sucks.06:04
Jucatoer yeah...06:04
Simeyeah, konq sidebar doesn't understand hidden.06:05
fdovingi must admit this feature is not on my top 10 features in edgy list.06:05
Jucatobtw, CD icons on the desktop no longer show the name/label of the CD, just cdrom0 or cdrom106:06
Jucatodunno if that's a feature or a bug...06:06
fdovingSime: I edited the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHiddenFiles page a little. Added GTK section + small fixes, don't know if all are to the better. please take a look.06:07
Simelooks fine06:08
Jucato(that borker guy is making a lot of noise about this...)06:09
fdovingI can only agree with people complaining about this feature.06:11
Jucatoexcuse me Sime, I'm just curious if Launch Feedback was accidentally left out of System Settings?06:11
Simeyou'll have to ask El about that.06:12
Jucatoah ok06:12
Jucatodang she just left...06:12
mhb_MidMark: I'll take a look06:16
MidMarkmhb_: thanx a lot06:17
mhb_MidMark: hm, so kernel booted fine ...06:18
mhb_MidMark: did you check the CD for errors?06:18
MidMarkno I can check06:18
mhb_MidMark: /etc/rc.local should be empty, at least it's empty on the installed Kubuntu system06:19
MidMarkand on live cd?06:19
mhb_MidMark: I guess as well, this is a weird freeze point, better check the CD first06:20
MidMarkmhb_: pressing enter after the rc.local it shows the command prompt06:31
MidMarkX problem?06:32
MidMarknow I'm checking the cd06:32
mhb_MidMark: could be an X problem06:32
MidMarkthen starting with startx will show the errors?06:35
nixternalRiddell: ping?06:35
mhb_MidMark: exactly06:35
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MidMarkmhb_: seems X -> http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0577go8.jpg07:04
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Mezwho wa it who does the newsletter ?07:06
fdovingubuntu weekly? 07:07
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Pupeno_Sorry for the off-topic, but doesn't anybody know of a workarround to install on a reiserfs partition using Kubuntu Edgy (Dapper just worked) ? I've created the partitions by hand (cfdisk) but choosing to install in them makes the install complaint about "No root filesystem".07:12
fdovingare you using the alternate cd? 07:17
Pupeno_fdoving: no.07:24
fdovingnot sure if installing to reiser is supported by the live/desktop cd.07:25
Pupeno_fdoving: I know it isn't, but the limitation is due to be able to make the partitions, not being unable to mount them or copy files into it. I have already made the partitions and the filesystem by hand, the installer refuses to install.07:26
Pupeno_Dapper just worked there.07:27
nixternalfirefox front page bug 6568507:30
UbugtuMalone bug 65685 in kubuntu-docs ""About Kubuntu" missing "wonderful-linux.html"" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6568507:30
nixternalthat isn't a kubuntu-docs issue, that is an /etc/alternatives issue07:30
nixternalwhat package deals with the etc/alt and the firefox homepage?07:31
nixternalnm, found it07:43
fdovingkubuntu-docs :)07:43
nixternaleasiest fix would be to create a link in the ubuntu-artwork/home directory to the wonderful-linux.html file in /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/ direcotry07:49
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fdovingisn't it easier to change the url in the postinst script to file:///usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html ? 07:57
nixternalthat is how it should be07:57
fdovinglrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 59 2006-10-27 00:55 firefox-homepage -> /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html07:58
fdovingin my /etc/alternatives07:58
fdovingnow i understand.08:03
nixternalit took me a second as well...08:04
nixternalbut if there is going to be links, there needs to either be more than 1, or they set the homepage to read directly from the doc dir08:04
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nixternalthe 2 pita bugs have been linked to /etc/alternatives (usplash and firefox homepage)...that is part of the reason i can't stand /etc/alternatives..it is turning into a nightmare08:05
fdovingrelative links will break this way.08:05
fdovingthere is also a hackish alternative, i tend to use when i make homepages. forwarding with html-refresh.08:06
nixternalactually, the firefox package probably has a file that sets the homepage to /etc/alternatives08:06
nixternalthat would be a simple "hackish" fix for sure08:07
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fdovingnixternal: example; http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/ffhelp.html.txt08:14
fdovingi think that is as good as symlinking the whole dir.08:15
nixternalwell symlinking the whole directory causes the pages to open, but there is no formatting to them08:16
nixternalso symlinking the entire directory fixes the 404 error, but there is no formatting at all from the css files08:16
=== fdoving votes for the hackish version.
nixternali will leave that one up to Riddell08:17
fdovingadding it to the package as redirect.html or something. and then link file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html to it, instead of /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html08:18
nixternalthat would be easy to do08:18
nixternaland would be the way i would fix this now for edgy, and worry about a "real" fix for feisty08:19
nixternalwhich we are already planning on a total documentation rewrite08:19
fdovingand it would work. No need to make symlink-mania.08:19
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nixternalRiddell: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/kubuntu-docs.debdiff09:13
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Riddellthanks nixternal 09:17
nixternalhope that is alright for the debdiff, but no problem...im pretty sure you are swamped right now09:18
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mhb_Riddell: have you discussed with somone the possibility of translating directory names through a .directory file?09:19
mhb_Riddell: I just wonder...09:19
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Simeis anyone using strigi?10:19
fdovinghave it installed.. don't use it much.10:22
Simeis it any good?10:22
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fdovingthe daemon crashes alot here on powerpc. can't really tell if it is any good. promising.10:25
nixternali have messed with strigi and it is a pita10:29
nixternalit never once worked well for me10:29
nixternalso i apt-got removed it10:29
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MezRiddell: ping11:43
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fdovinghmm.. so the kubuntu special-upgrade section is removed from EdgyUpgrades ? 11:47
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Mezanyone around ?12:02
nixternalphysically yes, mentally no12:04
Meznixternal, fancy doing some katapult testing ?12:05
nixternalsure can12:05
nixternali would love to have kwrite in katapult ;)12:05
Mezkwrite in katapult ?12:05
Mezhow do you mean ?12:06
nixternalso when i alt+space, i can type "kwrite" and it would open ;)12:06
Meznixternal, and what does it do now 12:06
nixternalit doesn't recognize kwrite12:06
Mezdo you have a K Menu entry for it ?12:06
nixternalif it is in kmenu, then it will be in katapult?12:07
Meznixternal, it works on K menu entries ;)12:07
Meznixternal, you might have to restart katapult, but yes12:07
nixternali have been wanting to know, and now i do ;)12:07
nixternalok, what needs testing?12:12
Mezyou ok to compile or want me to build a .deb?12:14

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