[12:10] <yacoob> well, SOME wmvs don't render up... I guess I'd better look for the pack :>
[12:11] <sivang> hmm, jono is not here
[12:11] <pygi> sivang: nop ^_^
[12:13] <sivang> pygi: hey dude
[12:13] <pygi> sivang: hey ^_^
[12:18] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: what's wrong with them? (I can change that page)
[12:27] <ajmitch> hi mdz 
[12:28] <Burgwork> ajmitch: or not
[12:28] <ajmitch> oh well :)
[12:30] <LaserJock> where does mdz work from?
[12:30] <ajmitch> depends
[12:30] <ajmitch> around release times, I think he heads to the office in london
[12:31] <LaserJock> ah
[12:31] <Burgwork> he is the UK right now
[12:31] <LaserJock> where is he normally?
[12:32] <Burgwork> cali
[12:33] <pitti> good night
[12:33] <ajmitch> night pitti 
[12:33] <Riddell> pitti: you pinged?
[12:37] <FireRabbit> is the webmaster here?
[12:38] <Burgwork> FireRabbit: file a bug against the product ubuntu-website
[12:38] <cjwatson> I've added an ubuntu-7.04 milestone; dated 2007-04-01 for now because I don't know the exact dat
[12:38] <FireRabbit> ok
[12:40] <LaserJock> cjwatson: sounds optimistic :-)
[12:41] <ajmitch> I think the suggested date by sabdfl was the 19th
[12:43] <FireRabbit> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/68492
[12:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68492 in ubuntu-website "Incorrect description of how to obtain torrents" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:46] <Burgwork> FireRabbit: thanks
[12:46] <FireRabbit> with the mirrors overloaded, this is not a good thing
[12:49] <sivang> sladen: were you close to Jono in LinuxWorld london, I spotted you in some of the photos.
[12:49] <jono> sivang, which photos?
[12:50] <sivang> ah! you're here :)
[12:51] <sivang> jono: http://nikbutler.wordpress.com/files/2006/10/jonoinflow.JPG
[12:51] <ajmitch> jono!
[12:51] <G0SUB> jono: I have sent you a mail wrt edgy cds and ubuntu-in
[12:51] <jono> hey ajmitch :)
[12:52] <jono> G0SUB, cool, will check mail tomorrow
[12:52] <G0SUB> jono: that's fine :) it's actually about changing the shipping address from the one I provided earlier (if possible)
[12:53] <sivang> jono: do you know who was the Zend guy David Morely tried to explain, and I quote "yes, we give it away rather than sell it. Amazing." ? ;-)
[12:53] <sivang> jono: (this was about jokosher)
[12:53] <psusi> fabbione: ping
[12:53] <jono> G0SUB, cool
[12:54] <jono> sivang, hehe
[12:54] <jono> :P
[12:54] <G0SUB> jono: fine, thanks :)
[12:54] <jono> dave morley apparently got quite pissed off at people thinking Jokosher was a money making scheme
[12:55] <ajmitch> jono: so it's not your secret plan to extort millions?
[12:56] <jono> ajmitch, no, I plan to make money from selling guns to frustrated gentoo users :P
[12:56] <sivang> ajmitch: HEHE
[12:56] <ajmitch> jono: well our original loco contact (pre-plug) has gone back to gentoo now :)
[12:56] <sivang> jono: my last job was Zend, I was curious if I knew the guy :)
[12:56] <jono> ajmitch, hah!
[12:56] <jono> sivang, oh cool
[12:57] <G0SUB> it's aweful to see how Oracle ripped off RHEL to create their own distro
[12:57] <G0SUB> and the name, my god. it's super-aweful
[12:58] <sid> Can someone confirm a bug for me with gnome-panel?
[12:58] <sid> if you left click and drag an icon in the gnome-panel to the right, and back to the left, does the icon lose all it's information? ie name/icon etc
[12:59] <G0SUB> sid: on which release? edgy or dapper?
[12:59] <sid> edgy
[12:59] <LaserJock> not here I don't think
[01:00] <G0SUB> sid: couldn't reproduce it here ...
[01:00] <sid> LaserJock: You left clicked and draged an icon to the right in the panel, then back?
[01:00] <sid> I got 2 people in #ubuntu to reproduce it
[01:01] <LaserJock> sid: oh, now I got it
[01:02] <sid> I didn't see anything on launchpad, but I'm not sure if I'm looking good enough
[01:02] <LaserJock> it doesn't matter where you drag it or how far
[01:02] <LaserJock> if you do a left click and drag it somewhere
[01:03] <LaserJock> and then left click and drag it somewhere else it loses everything
[01:03] <LaserJock> if I move it properly via middle click it's fine
[02:02] <psusi> fabbione: ping
[03:56] <glick> howdy
[03:56] <glick> hey are there any kernel hackers in here?
[04:22] <Hobbsee> glick: i suspect they're all out celebrating
[04:22] <glick> heh yeah i spose so
[04:22] <glick> i got my question answered in kernelnewbies on OFTC
[05:30] <melvin> hello
[06:51] <glick> hello?
[06:52] <glick> hey what files do i need to install to compile kernel modules?
[06:52] <glick> i mean packages?
[06:54] <nixternal> build-essential, bin86, kernel-package, libqt3-headers, libqt3-mt-dev
[06:54] <nixternal> there are some decent howto's int he forums i believe as well that will tell you everything you need
[06:54] <glick> nixternal, is there a howto on how to build a kernel the ubuntu way?
[06:54] <glick> heh
[06:55] <glick> read my mind
[06:55] <nixternal> well, that i don't know about
[06:55] <nixternal> the "ubuntu way" is just to "apt-get upgrade"
[06:55] <fabbione> apt-get build-dep linux-source-2.6.17 if you are in edgy
[06:55] <fabbione> but please ask these questions in #ubuntu
[06:55] <nixternal> we let the kernel devs build them for us
[06:55] <fabbione> this is not a support channel
[06:56] <glick> is there a kernel dev channel for just the ubuntu kernel?
[06:57] <glick> cause i know ubuntu kernel isnt vanilla
[06:57] <fabbione> glick: a development channel is not where you ask how to build a kernel
[06:57] <fabbione> it's where you submit patches to improve or fix bugs
[06:57] <glick> fabbione, where would you ask then?
[06:57] <fabbione> #ubuntu
[06:58] <glick> ubuntu channel is for beginners and general help, most people arnt building kernels
[06:59] <highvoltage> #ubuntu is for all support
[07:00] <fabbione> IIRC there is an #ubuntu+1 for slightly more experienced users
[07:01] <Seveas> #ubuntu+1 is for development releases
[07:01] <Seveas> but since there is no such thing right now, #ubuntu+1 is closed
[07:01] <fabbione> Seveas: dude you are spoiling the fun :)
[07:01] <fabbione> and feisty is open in LP btw..
[07:02] <Seveas> That's my job ;)
[07:02] <Seveas> hmm, I should make a feisty-changes rss feed
[07:02] <fabbione> the list is open
[07:02] <Seveas> have there already been uploads?
[07:02] <fabbione> one, sitting in NEW
[07:02] <fabbione> but i strongly suggest not to use it
[07:02] <Seveas> heh
[07:02] <fabbione> it's there only for bootstrapping feisty toolchain
[07:03] <Seveas> I won't switch to feisty until december or so
[07:03] <fabbione> well but i cheat
[07:03] <fabbione> i have all the toolchain here :)
[07:03] <ajmitch> glibc 2.5?
[07:03] <fabbione> yes
[07:03] <ajmitch> excellent :)
[07:03] <fabbione> and .19-rc3
[07:03] <highvoltage> wow :)
[07:04] <ajmitch> yeah I saw benc's topic change in -kernel
[07:04] <fabbione> Hobbsee: it works here on ppc/sparc/i386.. but it's still missing a bunch of specific ubuntu drivers
[07:04] <Hobbsee> i expect it would cause large amounts of doom, but i wonder what exactly whould happen
[07:04] <glick> can we stick to non homo-erotic names for ubuntu releases?
[07:04] <glick> just a thought
[07:04] <Hobbsee> fabbione: that in a chroot, or on a partition?
[07:04] <glick> my opinion
[07:04] <fabbione> Hobbsee: live
[07:05] <Hobbsee> fabbione: wow, cool
[07:05] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: it's not too different from upstream 2.6.19-rc3, afaik
[07:06] <Hobbsee> ahh okay
[07:06] <fabbione> not at the moment it is not
[07:15] <fabbione> Hobbsee: oh add ia64 to that list
[07:15] <Hobbsee> heh
[07:25] <infinity> Seveas: Do we have an RSS feed for feisty yet?
[07:25] <Seveas> infinity, I'm having trouble creating one
[07:25] <Seveas> my mailserver is borking
[07:25] <infinity> Seveas: (If you need a message to the list first, I can pop the first source package through)
[07:25] <Seveas> no need to
[07:26] <Seveas> courier rejects the subscription mail without any indication why
[07:26] <infinity> Special.
[07:26] <Seveas> ys
[07:26] <Seveas> and I have to go to work now, soit will have to wait until this evening
[07:27] <infinity> Well, that just unacceptable for a volunteer effort. :P
[07:27] <Seveas> sue me ;)
[07:27] <Seveas> anyway, bbl
[07:27] <infinity> Seveas: If I statr passing stuff through now, can you pick up old messages an inject them in the feed, or will they just get lost?
[07:27] <Seveas> I'll inject them
[07:28] <infinity> Okay, cool.
[07:28] <infinity> Later, then.
[07:30] <jdub> 15:08:46 (1.34 MB/s) - `ubuntu-6.10-desktop-i386.iso' saved
[07:30] <jdub> yay ;-)
[07:33] <ajforgue> that's slow
[07:37] <jdub> yeah, that's a dumb way of reporting
[07:37] <jdub> it was
[07:37] <jdub> 15:00:04 -> 15:08:46
[07:37] <jdub> stupid wget
[07:39] <Fujitsu> jdub: Which mirror?
[07:56] <sladen> jdub: I didn't know you had wet-string that fast in Oz!
[08:01] <fabbione> jdub: you are still slow :)
[08:02] <Fujitsu> fabbione: But you seem to have the most ultimate hardware on the planet, so probably the ultimate connection as well :P
[08:04] <fabbione> Fujitsu: i don't have ultimate hw.. no
[08:04] <fabbione> (6.53 MB/s) - `edgy-desktop-i386.iso'
[08:04] <fabbione> this switch sucks
[08:04] <Fujitsu> OK then, have ACCESS to :P
[08:04] <fabbione> not even on my internal lan at 100Mb i can cheat
[08:08] <_ion> (259.31 MB/s) - `ubuntu-6.10-alternate-i386.iso'
[08:09] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hansreiser <-- thoughts?
[08:10] <Fujitsu> O_o
[08:10] <fabbione> Burgundavia: offtopic.. please remove and let's lock that account
[08:10] <Burgundavia> fabbione: can't lock, but I can ask
[08:10] <Fujitsu> fabbione: Sounds good, if we can get it locked...
[08:23] <G0SUB> any idea where I can file a bug report on usplash? launchpad says it doesn't use malone for bug tracking
[08:25] <Fujitsu> G0SUB: launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash/+filebug should do it.
[08:26] <G0SUB> Fujitsu: ah, thanks
[08:29] <G0SUB> the problem that I have with usplash is if I add vga=791 as a kernel parameter the spalsh screen becomes off-center and vga=789 simply borks the splash by making it way too large and the text wraps around
[08:29] <sladen> yup, stick those in the bug report aswell
[08:32] <Kagou> good morning
[08:56] <jdub> fabbione: ha ha :-)
[08:57] <jdub> fabbione: i just upgraded my modem so i get adsl2+ speeds. woo.
[08:57] <pitti> hey jdub!
[08:58] <fabbione> jdub: my ISP started offering adsl2+ yesterday
[08:58] <fabbione> i need to check it
[08:58] <jdub> yo pitti 
[08:58] <jdub> congrats to everyone on the release :-)
[08:59] <Hobbsee> hey jdub 
[08:59] <jdub> morning Hobbsee 
[09:00] <Hobbsee> jdub: IT'S NOT MORNING!
[09:00] <Hobbsee> jdub: arent you in my timezone?  :P
[09:00] <jdub> i always say good morning
[09:01] <Hobbsee> true, but still
[09:13] <tfheen> good morning, Sarah
[09:13] <Hobbsee> hey tfheen :)
[09:16] <Hobbsee> tfheen: glad release is over?  :)
[09:16] <tfheen> Hobbsee: yeah.  It's great fun, but really exhausting too.
[09:16] <Hobbsee> i'll bet
[09:17] <ajmitch> hi tfheen 
[09:17] <tfheen> it'll be nice to have a couple of somewhat quiet days before leaving for the conference.
[09:17] <tfheen> hiya Andrew
[09:23] <mdke> morning all. Good job
[09:23] <SimSie> morning
[09:23] <SimSie> hows the new release going?
[09:25] <infinity> tfheen: "quiet" days of bootstrapping a new release, you mean? :P
[09:27] <fabbione> infinity: quiet after MV is utopia.. we need to open the gates and start merging.. we better enjoy the quietness in writing specs :)
[09:31] <tfheen> infinity: I didn't say all of the company had a couple of quiet days..
[09:46] <mantiena-baltix> Hi all
[09:48] <mantiena-baltix> pitti: are you alive ?
[09:53] <janimo> mvo: morning, any news on the upgrade bug?
[09:54] <janimo> mvo: should I recommend dist-upgrade in the release ann?
[09:54] <mvo> janimo: no, sorry. nothing new. 
[09:55] <janimo> mvo, so I'll say clean reinstall is recommended, or be prepared to unbreak te system?
[09:56] <lifeless> bug ?
[09:58] <mvo> janimo: a apt-get dist-upgrade should work as well, I have a theory now what triggers the crash
[09:59] <mvo> janimo: update-manager rereads/validates the icon-theme after the install so this may trigger the problem. I'm still in the dark *why* the problem exists
[10:00] <janimo> mvo: thanks, I'll recommend dist-upgrade then
[10:00] <lifeless> what is the poblem ?
[10:01] <janimo> mvo:  it may be a different set of icon themes being installed in xubuntu/ubuntu cause some corner case bug
[10:01] <janimo> lifeless: update-manager crashes while upgarding xubuntu dapper to edgy
[10:01] <janimo> lifeless: does not affect ubuntu
[10:03] <mvo> lifeless: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/68027 <- pretty spectecular, the crash takes the whole desktop with it
[10:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68027 in update-manager "sudo update-manager -c -d crashes during xubuntu upgrade" [High,Confirmed]  
[10:04] <lifeless> mvo: wow, nice fuckage
[10:06] <dholbach> good morning
[10:06] <jsgotangco> hi
[10:07] <dholbach> hiya Jerome
[10:07] <ajmitch> hey dholbach 
[10:07] <dholbach> hey Andrew
[10:24] <pitti> mantiena-baltix: hi
[10:24] <BHSPitLappy> Keybuk, !
[10:25] <Keybuk> BHSPitLappy: ?
[10:25] <BHSPitLappy> I've been idling in here for a couple of weeks, just in hopes of catching you in here.
[10:26] <Keybuk> oh?
[10:26] <BHSPitLappy> yep.
[10:27] <BHSPitLappy> pm?
[10:27] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: sounds like you're famous :P
[10:27] <BHSPitLappy> celebrity status achieved!
[10:28] <fabbione> Keybuk: that's the moment in which you need to change your status from blogger to submarine and start to hide...
[10:29] <janimo> any ubuntu-announce moderator in here?
[10:29] <janimo> got rejected for the announcement mails, whereas they got queued for approval last week
[10:29] <janimo> elmo: ^^
[10:42] <infinity> janimo: Did you rememebr to add an "X-Ubuntu" header?
[10:42] <janimo> infinity: I have no idea what that is, have not used it so far
[10:43] <infinity> I'll take that as a "no", then. :)
[10:43] <janimo> infinity: :)
[10:43] <janimo> I am also not user if I could do that from gmail
[10:43] <janimo> s/user/sure/
[10:43] <infinity> janimo: -announce will drop anything on the floor that's lacking such a header.
[10:43] <janimo> infinity: ok, I'll remember for future mails
[10:44] <infinity> janimo: I can resend it for you, if you mail it to me, and tell me who it should be From.
[10:44] <janimo> infinity: ok, a moment
[10:46] <janimo> infinity: sent it to you 0x3 address, From field the one you receive it from
[10:46] <janimo> 0c3
[10:46] <infinity> Alright.
[10:46] <infinity> I should start charging for this service.. (had to do it for RichEd for edubuntu too)
[10:47] <infinity> janimo: Don't you have an ubuntu.com address?
[10:47] <infinity> janimo: Might look a bit better to send it from there.
[10:47] <janimo> infinity: I do, you can use jani@ubuntu.com then
[10:47] <infinity> Will do.
[10:47] <janimo> thanks
[10:53] <infinity> janimo: Sent.
[10:53] <janimo> infinity: thanks for the word-wrapping as well
[11:06] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: so, what was the releases.ubuntu.com mistake you were asking about?
[11:06] <BHSPitLappy> cjwatson, descriptions were off.
[11:07] <BHSPitLappy> for example, the bittorrent I downloaded said traditional download or something
[11:10] <cjwatson> yes, some of them do seem to be incorrect
[11:11] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: thanks, I'll look into that
[11:11] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: for future reference, https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-cdimage/+filebug is the best place to report problems with cdimage.ubuntu.com or releases.ubuntu.com
[11:12] <BHSPitLappy> mmk
[11:13] <BHSPitLappy> the installer on the official cd doesn't work, somebody should look into that too.
[11:13] <BHSPitLappy> "Prepare mount points"
[11:13] <BHSPitLappy> "!   No root file system."
[11:13] <ogra> imbrandon, ping
[11:14] <BHSPitLappy> I beg to differ, ubuntu.
[11:14] <imbrandon> ogra, pong
[11:14] <ogra> imbrandon, would it be possible to have the old categorization for the imported artwork in a.u.c ?
[11:15] <BHSPitLappy> but eh, I guess I'm not allowed to install ubuntu in a reasonable, acceptable configuration
[11:15] <infinity> BHSPitLappy: Sarcasm is less effective than well-formed bug reports.
[11:15] <imbrandon> ogra, yea actualy i was working on that, its on my hdd but not quite ready to upload yet
[11:15] <ogra> the edubuntu category had a ton of pics, now i have to got through a quite complicated navigation to get to them
[11:15] <ogra> ok
[11:15] <ogra> thanks :)
[11:15] <imbrandon> np :)
[11:16] <BHSPitLappy> infinity, I don't know... directed in the right places, ...
[11:16] <BHSPitLappy> anybody know shuttleworth's cell number?
[11:17] <dholbach> BHSPitLappy: Please cut it... you can't expect anybody to be motivated after your little taunts. 
[11:17] <Hobbsee> especially just after a release, too
[11:18] <BHSPitLappy> come now, lighten up a little.
[11:19] <Hobbsee> dholbach: do you want help with your merges for feisty too?
[11:19] <Hobbsee> dholbach: (not that we have to deal with them yet)
[11:19] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: thanks for your releases.u.c report; fixed, as well as fixing the root cause of the problem
[11:19] <dholbach> hehe :-)
[11:19] <Hobbsee> dholbach: of course, i'd be a lot happier to deal with them if it wasnt icky gnome :P
[11:19] <BHSPitLappy> cool
[11:20] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: on the other hand you've now convinced me not to look at your installer report, and I'm the person you need to look at it
[11:20] <dholbach> Hobbsee: hahahaha - wait until seb128 sees that
[11:20] <Hobbsee> dholbach: :D
[11:20] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: glutton for punishment?
[11:20] <cjwatson> funnily enough we did test the installer before releasing it, so it's obviously not "doesn't work"
[11:21] <mnepton> KDE is used by the same people that bolt US$10K of crap to a US$3K car. GNOME is used by people with a bit more taste. :P
[11:21] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: do you want to deal with https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/68559 ?
[11:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68559 in Ubuntu "I can't install ubuntu into existing root partition. (I need to delete and re-create it)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:22] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: i cant think of a way to do it diplomatically
[11:22] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: seems so
[11:22] <tfheen> mnepton: "taste" and "USD" in the same sentence? :-)
[11:22] <Keybuk> mnepton: oddly enough, it used to be the other way around
[11:22] <mnepton> tfheen: the american dollar, great on a cracker!
[11:22] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: diplomatically?
[11:22] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: save the fangirlism for somewhere else please
[11:23] <mnepton> Keybuk: yeah, i remmeber 2001. :)
[11:23] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: huh?  want to explain that?
[11:23] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: something other than "we've decided not to do things this way, be quiet"
[11:23] <Chipzz> 11:19 < Hobbsee> dholbach: of course, i'd be a lot happier to deal with them if it wasnt icky gnome :P
[11:23] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: that would be incorrect
[11:24] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: it's a bug, not an intentional decision
[11:24] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: oh, okay then.  i thought that you had decided not to let them install with an unclean /
[11:24] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: I have, but that's a different error. Note how in screenshot number 4 he's opted to format /
[11:24] <Hobbsee> oh, oops
[11:24] <Hobbsee> yeah
[11:24] <Keybuk> DEBUG:root:debian: kde-style-serenity 1.4-1
[11:25] <Keybuk> ... is that the "You can't take my CRACK! from me!" style? :p
[11:25] <cjwatson> OH
[11:25] <Keybuk> cjwatson: thank god we tested the installer, eh? :)
[11:25] <dholbach> Chipzz: !??!
[11:25] <cjwatson> Keybuk: won't show up in all configurations, but ...
[11:26] <Chipzz> why refer to it is "icky gnome"? is that really necessary?
[11:26] <ajmitch> Chipzz: we understood that she's joking
[11:26] <dholbach> Chipzz: it's a long-standing joke
[11:26] <Fujitsu> Chipzz: Yes, it's Hobbsee :P
[11:27] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: please meet the :P. 
[11:27] <mnepton> Hobbsee: try that with me! i taste like chicken! oh, and sulfur.
[11:27] <Chipzz> well, I don't like kde at all either, but I try to keep my opinion for myself ;P
[11:29] <dholbach> Chipzz: and Hobbsee merged and worked on a bunch of GNOME packages, so I don't see why you should critize her in that way when it was obviously a joke...
[11:30] <mnepton> BAWK BAWK BAWK!
[11:30] <infinity> mnepton: megaraid_sas got in at the zero hour.
[11:30] <mnepton> (everybody point and laugh at the monkey and stop the arguing, please) :)
[11:30] <infinity> mnepton: And no, the bug was never filed, I don't think, just communicated by a few over IRC.
[11:30] <mnepton> infinity: want a doctrail for it?
[11:31] <infinity> mnepton: Couldn't care less; it's fixed now.
[11:31] <mnepton> oOoOoOoOo!
[11:31] <mnepton> niftay.
[11:32] <infinity> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-October/008054.html
[11:32] <infinity> The 5th last upload that got in. :)
[11:32] <Chipzz> dholbach: maybe I'm just not getting the joke... :P
[11:33] <mnepton> infinity: spnedid
[11:33] <mnepton> "splendid," too.
[11:35] <Chipzz> dholbach: but I think that if I were to refer to kde as "a piece of crap" the whole time I would politely be asked to sod off ;P
[11:35] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: looks like I should be able to fix that installer bug, anyway
[11:35] <ajmitch> Chipzz: just drop it
[11:35] <Chipzz> yea I will
[11:35] <Hobbsee> good.
[11:36] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: when will MOM start running again, for reference?
[11:36] <BHSPitLappy> cjwatson, nice to hear. the circumstances in that bug report are a spot-on match to mine, incidentally.
[11:36] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: running currently
[11:36] <Keybuk> usually takes 6-9 hours for the first one
[11:36] <Keybuk> though you can't upload yet, so it's moot ;)
[11:36] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: workaround is to delete and recreate the partition
[11:36] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: oh nice.  so feasible time to start merging is...?
[11:36] <BHSPitLappy> too bad the bug made it into the official ISO, though. maybe an early 6.10.1 ?
[11:36] <cjwatson> (since you have to reformat it anyway, that's not a big deal)
[11:36] <BHSPitLappy> cjwatson, understood
[11:36] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: when you can upload
[11:36] <infinity> Keybuk: Sure she can, we just won't approve the uploads. :)
[11:37] <Hobbsee> infinity: what, even if they dont contain crack?  :P
[11:37] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: yeah, not sure. point releases are a big chunk of work for the whole team so we'll have to discuss it
[11:37] <dholbach_> Chipzz: Hobbsee does real work in here, maybe that's a difference :-)
[11:38] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: the next question is "when can i upload again?"  if i havent done tried your patience too much :P
[11:38] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: when the toolchain and buildd chroots are ready
[11:38] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: "soon"
[11:38] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: you can upload, it just won't go anywhere for a bit. :)
[11:38] <Hobbsee> gah.  i think i'm  pulling teeth.
[11:38] <cjwatson> (feisty exists, but is frozen)
[11:38] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: yeah, well.  that's not helpful
[11:38] <infinity> Hobbsee: Seriously, you could upload now if you wanted to, it'll land in the unapproved queue.  But for the sake of being able to test-build your uploads with the new toolchain, you might want to wait until we have glibc/gcc/etc in.
[11:38] <Hobbsee> so i'd heard
[11:38] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: it's true, though ...
[11:38] <infinity> Fujitsu: Not anymore.
[11:38] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: besides, you need to leave some packages for everyone else
[11:39] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: that's already been changed to FROZEN
[11:39] <Hobbsee> infinity: yeah, i understand that.  and then i'm wondering on how long that will be, which was more my original question :P  iirc, edgy's toolchain didnt start on the day after dapper's release?
[11:39] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: Is there a functional difference?
[11:39] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: next week sometime, if you want a thumb-in-the-arse estimate
[11:40] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: yes - FROZEN means (a) uploads are queued for manual approval, (b) LP actually considers feisty as the "current release"
[11:40] <infinity> Hobbsee: It's being worked on right now, whilst also working really hard on watching Black Books DVDs.
[11:40] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: okay, that's what i wanted to know :)
[11:40] <BHSPitLappy> cjwatson, well, the workaround should probably be published readily for others' sake, somehow.
[11:40] <Hobbsee> infinity: sounds good to me.  and DVD watching is very cruical for such things :)
[11:40] <infinity> Hobbsee: It's a good way to stomach working out of hours, yes. :)
[11:40] <mnepton> oh man, i can see the tin-foil hat crowd in #ubuntu having a f-ing *field day* with Feisty being frozen
[11:40] <Hobbsee> infinity: indeed.
[11:41] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: I will do, yes
[11:41] <Keybuk> infinity: you have hours? :)
[11:41] <Fujitsu> mnepton: Yes, especially as it's labeled `pre-release freeze', or was last time I checked.
[11:41] <ajmitch> mnepton: want to go & stir up some trouble?
[11:41] <mnepton> here we go ....
[11:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Not so much a set time when I do and don't work, but I theoretically have a contracted number per work that I'm meant to put in.  That number has never matched reality, but a man can dream. :)
[11:41] <mnepton> ajmitch: i'd rather insert scorpions into my urethra
[11:41] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes!  lets stir up some trouble :P
[11:41] <BHSPitLappy> mnepton, way to brighten up the conversation as usual
[11:42] <ajmitch> mnepton: graphic, but accurate..
[11:42] <mnepton> BHSPitLappy: everyone has to have a super-power ...
[11:42] <Hobbsee> infinity: since when does contract hours equal real hours?
[11:42] <infinity> Hobbsee: Not once since I graduated high school. :)
[11:43] <Hobbsee> infinity: :)  even then?
[11:43] <mnepton> infinity: you graduated high school?
[11:43] <BHSPitLappy> lucky me, I've never graduated high school.
[11:43] <cjwatson> BHSPitLappy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseNotes
[11:43] <infinity> mnepton: Filthy government lies implied that it would somehow improve my future.
[11:44] <mnepton> infinity: well, i don't make romantic overtures to high school graduates, so i guess that diploma is helping you a *little*
[11:44] <infinity> mnepton: I assumed that had more to do with age than educational level.
[11:45] <BHSPitLappy> cjwatson, nice
[11:45] <mnepton> hey big boy. you look both hot and like you've never read "The Iliad"
[11:46] <BHSPitLappy> should I bother trying to count the levels on which that was disturbing
[11:46] <mnepton> BHSPitLappy: well, you never graduated high school. so your count might not take too long nor go too high. ;)
[11:47] <BHSPitLappy> oh no, now he's going to retaliate with a crack that I can't even count
[11:47] <BHSPitLappy> ahh
[11:47] <BHSPitLappy> predict'd! (though not provably, due to my typing sloth)
[11:48] <BHSPitLappy> mnepton, I'm due to graduate in about 7 months, so we'll see where that goes.
[11:50] <mnepton> ach so
[11:50] <mnepton> and now, i officially feel old.
[11:52] <BHSPitLappy> yay, the nitrogen cycle is finally proving useful.
[11:53] <mnepton> quiet, necrotroph!
[11:53] <BHSPitLappy> bully!
[12:13] <mnepton> that requires rearrangement?
[12:13] <mnepton> you're too kind.
[12:15] <sjoerd> pitti: thanks for the hal sync mail!
[12:16] <pitti> sjoerd: hi!
[12:16] <pitti> sjoerd: my pleasure; I'm just playing around with all the new crack :)
[12:16] <sjoerd> nice :)
[12:18] <Robot101> ffs
[12:18] <Robot101> beagle takes 550MB on this box
[12:18] <Robot101> is that normal?!
[12:20] <pitti> cjwatson: ' * Recognize feisty as valid Ubuntu release' ? :-)
[12:20] <thom> cjwatson: :D
[12:21] <cjwatson> pitti: near enough, yes
[12:21] <pitti> oh, that reminds me, do we need to manually subscribe feisty-changes?
[12:22] <cjwatson> I think so, yes
[12:24] <slomo> pitti: yes
[12:25] <pitti> slomo: yes what?
[12:25] <pitti> slomo: oh, subscribe
[12:28] <slomo> pitti: yes ;)
[12:28] <slomo> btw, when will feisty be open for general uploads?
[12:31] <pitti> mark: 'ubuntu'? he?
[12:31] <mark> edgy and me :)
[12:31] <mark> it did that in dapper, it still does in edgy... it's never asked me anything
[12:33] <Fujitsu> mark, meaning it uses the Australian mirror?
[12:33] <mark> yes, and has locale en_AU.UTF-8
[12:33] <fabbione> mark: i think there is a bug opened for that already
[12:33] <mark> okay
[12:34] <Fujitsu> mark: Did you install using the Live CD, and selected a language that is strange for the country you selected?
[12:37] <mark> no, I'm just upgrading now... but I'll try a fresh install later
[12:38] <mark> it's just a bit annoying, .au mirrors are *very* slow from here ;)
[12:40] <cjwatson> mark: was this a dapper install from the desktop CD?
[12:40] <cjwatson> mark: if so, it's a known problem fixed in the edgy desktop CD installer
[12:40] <mark> yes it was
[12:41] <mark> okay
[12:41] <cjwatson> just munge /etc/apt/sources.list to taste
[12:41] <cjwatson> and /etc/environment, for the locale
[12:41] <mark> sure, I did
[12:41] <mark> after killing the upgrade process ;-)
[12:51] <StevenK> mark: The .au mirrors are slow from here, too. :-P
[01:07] <surak> Wow! This is amazing: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+bugs
[01:08] <seb128> we almost fixed them all ;)
[01:09] <surak> Well, if this is not the way to look for edgy bugs, then I must be really dumb (or there's something weird with LP)
[01:11] <Fujitsu> surak: The latter, cut the edgy/.
[01:13] <seb128> surak: your URL list bugs with an edgy backport task
[01:14] <surak> seb128 : What I did what going to launchpad, distributions, ubuntu, 6.10, and then bugs. I think this would be the logical step for looking for bugs specific to edgy. But perhaps this is offtopic, since this is a LP usability issue.
[01:14] <surak> (IMHO)
[01:15] <seb128> surak: you have bugs specific to edgy ;)
[01:15] <surak> Actually, I do :-D
[01:15] <seb128> surak: all other bugs apply to feisty too (are not specifc to edgy then)
[01:15] <seb128> right, it's a launchpad UI issue
[02:00] <Keybuk> main
[02:00] <Keybuk> Locally Packaged    1122
[02:00] <Keybuk> Unmodified          399
[02:00] <Keybuk> Needs Sync          306
[02:00] <Keybuk> Needs Merge         518
[02:00] <Keybuk> Locally Repackaged  109
[02:01] <Keybuk> Modified            210
[02:01] <Keybuk> ------------------  --
[02:01] <Keybuk> TOTAL               2664
[02:03] <StevenK> Keybuk: Do those number overlap?
[02:03] <Keybuk> no
[02:03] <StevenK> numbers, even
[02:22] <Keybuk> universe
[02:22] <Keybuk> Locally Packaged    700
[02:22] <Keybuk> Unmodified          4989
[02:22] <Keybuk> Needs Sync          2370
[02:22] <Keybuk> Needs Merge         433
[02:22] <Keybuk> Locally Repackaged  65
[02:22] <Keybuk> Modified            667
[02:22] <Keybuk> ------------------  --
[02:22] <Keybuk> TOTAL               9224
[02:26] <sivang> Keybuk: merge preperations ? ;)
[02:29] <Keybuk> sivang: aye
[02:41] <sivang> Keybuk: cool
[02:46] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: What are the first and last two categories in those lists?
[02:47] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: locally packaged means the source doesn't exist in Debian
[02:48] <Keybuk> Modified means that the version in Ubuntu is greater than that in Debian, but not 0ubuntu (ie. modified, with nothing to merge)
[02:48] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: That's what I guessed, but there surely can't be, THAT many new ones!?
[02:48] <Fujitsu> OK.
[02:49] <Keybuk> language packs
[02:50] <Fujitsu> Of course! I thought the numbers in main were rather large.
[02:51] <sivang> can anybody tell me if completing apprenticeship implies reciving a diploma for it or is it just experience ?
[02:52] <zul> probably depends on the location
[02:53] <sivang> zul: okay, thank
[03:17] <gnomefreak> why doesnt dbg work?
[03:17] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak@EdgyEft:~$ dbg firefox
[03:17] <gnomefreak> bash: dbg: command not found
[03:17] <gnomefreak> am i missing something?
[03:18] <gnomefreak> ignore that
[03:18] <gnomefreak> need more coffee
[03:20] <yacoob> hm.
[03:21] <yacoob> is there a place where one can read up on organisation of Ubuntu, release cycles, and it's interaction with Debian?
[03:22] <dholbach> yacoob: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForDebianDevelopers might help, if you're familiar with how Debian works
[03:23] <yacoob> I'm more or less are. Thanks :)
[03:23] <yacoob> (started to think to apply for Debian maintainership, but luckily I ran out of free time)
[03:24] <StevenK> Hah
[03:24] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:27] <yacoob> ok, this page solves second part of my question. And the first one?
[03:38] <fabbione> yacoob: start from wiki.ubuntu.com.. there are tons of links to the structure
[03:39] <fabbione> what you are looking for as equivalent on NM is MOTU
[03:39] <yacoob> Righto.
[03:39] <yacoob> now, will wiki fit into my palm... :>
[03:43] <yacoob> Hm, does that mean that main is kept in order only by Canonical folks? :>
[03:43] <StevenK> Nope.
[03:44] <yacoob> Ok, I'll read up, I'll... :>
[03:52] <pitti> mvo_: SRU proposals need to go to mdz, not to security@
[03:53] <pitti> mvo_: (could also just *look* like you sent it to security@, and I just got the bug echo though)
[04:00] <seb128> we have planned to a "reduce delta with upstream" week for ubuntu-desktop next week, are other people interested to have that for non-desktop too? What would be the right place, #ubuntu-bugs?
[04:00] <seb128> I've created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/UpstreamDelta for the desktop packages by example
[04:00] <seb128> and I know we have a bunch of desktop patches that should go upstream
[04:01] <seb128> not sure if people are interested to hand on #ubuntu-bugs next week and reply to people who want to do the same for non-desktop packages by example?
[04:01] <Keybuk> seb128: random bug ... gnome-power-manager always seems to use the scalable icons, not the 24x24 one
[04:01] <mvo_> pitti: I didn't send it to security
[04:02] <seb128> Keybuk: we have patches pending feisty opening for that
[04:02] <Keybuk> ok
[04:05] <Keybuk> who knows much about x fonts?  (of the old fashioned kind)
[04:05] <Keybuk> this program wants -times-normal-r-*-*-9-....
[04:05] <Keybuk> where would I get that?
[04:12] <segfault> woo!
[04:15] <ogra> Keybuk, xfonts-{75,100}-dpi
[04:17] <Keybuk> ogra: that only has 8px in it
[04:17] <Keybuk> not -9-
[04:17] <ogra> hmm
[04:17] <ogra> probably in one of the -transcoded or -european packages then ...
[04:18] <Keybuk> it's as if a scalable font is missing
[04:19] <Keybuk> aha! /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc was missing from my font page
[04:19] <Keybuk> path
[04:20] <ogra> hmm
[04:20] <ogra> intresting xfontsel hasnt it here either
[04:20] <Keybuk> xtrkcad is happy now
[04:20] <ogra> i hacve 8,10,12 etc ... but no 9
[04:21] <mrmojo> hello
[04:21] <mrmojo> someone needs to change ubuntu webpage
[04:22] <mrmojo> "#
[04:22] <mrmojo> # CD Image for Apple Macintosh PowerPC based desktop and laptop computers" is very misleading
[04:22] <mrmojo> should be CD Image for PPC based Apple Macintosh
[04:23] <Keybuk> err, that's what is says
[04:23] <Keybuk> "PowerPC based desktop"
[04:23] <cjwatson> he's gone
[04:23] <cjwatson> damn drive-byers
[04:23] <BenC> not to mention it should add IBM POWER5
[04:24] <BenC> too many places to update that info
[04:24] <zul> BenC: doom and gloom?
[04:25] <BenC> zul: "All I wanna do is run my zoom zoom in her boom boom"
[04:25] <zul> BenC: heh..
[04:38] <Mez> is there a wiki link for the -proposed and -updates process?
[04:41] <janimo> mdz: hi, can you let the xubuntu announcement through?
[04:45] <mdz> janimo: done
[04:45] <janimo> mdz:  thanks
[04:46] <Mez> mdz: what is the process for having something added to -updates nowadays ?
[04:47] <mdz> Mez: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[04:48] <Mez> mdz: what is meant by "sever regressions
[04:49] <mdz> Mez: a regression is when functionality which was previously working stops working
[04:49] <mdz> as opposed to something which never worked
[04:50] <Mez> mdz: so for example, having katapult not launch on systems not using en-gb and also not interacting with amarok would count? 
[04:51] <zyga> hi
[04:52] <Keybuk> Mez: has katapult ever launched on those systems?
[04:52] <Keybuk> has katapult ever interacted with amarok?
[04:52] <Hobbsee> yes
[04:52] <Mez> Keybuk, yes :P
[04:52] <Gadi> infinit, Keybuk:  I hope you'll excuse this as not being 100% a devel question, but I have an initramfs prob that I have been wrestling with in dapper for 2 days...   it has to do with booting by volume label (root=LABEL=)
[04:53] <Keybuk> mdz: so in dapper, katapult both launched AND interacted with amarok?
[04:53] <Mez> Keybuk, yes it did :P (assuming you're talking to me)
[04:53] <yacoob> Hmm.
[04:54] <yacoob> I ignited a flame few windows to the left, about how much ubuntu takes from Debian.
[04:54] <Keybuk> Mez: is the fix trivial?
[04:54] <Gadi> I have one image that boots by label fine, which is a breezy dist-upgrade to dapper.  another image that is a straight dapper install fails with:  ALERT!  /dev/disk/by-label/...  does not exist
[04:54] <Mez> Keybuk: a couple of patches
[04:55] <Hobbsee> Mez: fixed the bookmarks section as well?
[04:55] <Keybuk> Gadi: that implies the label is wrong or not available
[04:55] <Gadi> does the udev in initramfs need a particular pkg installed in userspace to make this work?
[04:55] <Gadi> but vol_id returns the label fine
[04:56] <Gadi> and it doesnt croke on LABEL in /etc/fstab
[04:56] <Mez> Hobbsee, what was up with the bookmarks section ?
[04:57] <Hobbsee> Mez: the ones in firefox - katapult doesnt bring them up anymore
[04:57] <Keybuk> Gadi: kooky
[04:57] <Gadi> heh
[04:57] <Keybuk> does it work in edgy?
[04:57] <Gadi> havent tried 
[04:57] <Gadi> trying to keep my sample space of problems small ;)
[05:02] <Gadi> Keybuk: when it drops me into the initramfs shell, should I be able to see a /dev/disk/by-name....?
[05:11] <Keybuk> Gadi: yes
[05:12] <Keybuk> does the directory exist at all?
[05:12] <Gadi> no /dev/disk at all
[05:12] <Gadi> what needs modprobing to get it?
[05:13] <infinity> Gadi: Your drive controller.
[05:13] <infinity> Gadi: What sortof controller is in that machine?
[05:14] <Gadi> its on the ide drive
[05:14] <Gadi> I modprobed ide-disk
[05:14] <Gadi> still no /dev/disk
[05:15] <infinity> Gadi: Do you have /dev/sd* or /dev/hd*?
[05:16] <Gadi> yes - /dev/hdc, /dev/hdc1
[05:16] <Gadi> which is correct
[05:16] <sbalneav> back
[05:18] <Keybuk> Gadi: does /sbin/udevd exist?
[05:18] <Gadi> infinity: also note, that if I change to root=/dev/hdc1 it boots fine
[05:18] <Gadi> Keybuk: it exists and is running
[05:18] <Keybuk> Gadi: does /lib/udev/vol_id exist?
[05:18] <infinity> udev would have to be running, or he'd have a static device tree, not just /dev/hdc{,1}
[05:18] <Gadi> Keybuk: yes
[05:19] <Keybuk> Gadi: what does "/lib/udev/vol_id /dev/hdc1" say?
[05:19] <Gadi> it returns the correct label info
[05:19] <Keybuk> you see ID_FS_LABEL_SAFE=... ?
[05:20] <Gadi> yes same value for ID_FS_LABEL_SAFE and ID_FS_LABEL
[05:20] <Keybuk> does /sys/block/hdc/removable exist?
[05:20] <Keybuk> or /sys/block/hdc/hdc1/removable ?
[05:21] <Gadi> yes and its value is 1
[05:21] <Gadi> oh wait
[05:21] <Keybuk> ok
[05:21] <Keybuk> that's why you don't have any labels ;)
[05:21] <Gadi> wait
[05:22] <Gadi>   /sys/block/hdc/removable is 1
[05:22] <Gadi> but, /sys/block/hdc/hdc1/removable  does not exist
[05:22] <Keybuk> then the label and uuid for hdc will not be available
[05:22] <Gadi> thats ok
[05:22] <Keybuk> removable ide devices are teh suck
[05:22] <Gadi> ah
[05:23] <Gadi> so, will I not get a label for hdc1 as well?
[05:23] <Keybuk> right
[05:23] <Gadi> how come it works on the other image, tho, I wonder
[05:23] <Keybuk> bet that's not a removable disk
[05:23] <Gadi> no, they both are
[05:23] <Gadi> they are both CF chips
[05:23] <Keybuk> or is exposed through the SCSI layer and is thus /dev/sd* ?
[05:23] <Gadi> nope
[05:23] <Gadi> I just swap one for the other
[05:23] <Gadi> same lot
[05:24] <Gadi> er, slot
[05:24] <Keybuk> identical hardware?
[05:24] <Gadi> CF slot on ide bus
[05:24] <Gadi> yep
[05:24] <Keybuk> same chipset and revision?
[05:24] <Gadi> 100%
[05:24] <Gadi> same board
[05:24] <Keybuk> on the other one, reboot with break=mount on the kernel command-line
[05:24] <Keybuk> check /sys/block/.../removable on there too
[05:24] <Gadi> ok
[05:24] <Keybuk> I expect that doesn't have it
[05:27] <pitti> mdz: do we still support X multiseat?
[05:28] <Gadi> Keybuk: well, actually, right away I see a few diffs:
[05:28] <Gadi> 1.  Doesnt support usb keyboard (had to switch to PS/2)
[05:28] <Gadi> 2.  no /dev/hdc{,1}
[05:29] <Gadi> (even after modprobe ide-disk
[05:29] <Gadi> 3. only /sys/block/ram* exist
[05:30] <Gadi> is there something else I should modprobe when I break this way?
[05:31] <Keybuk> not especially
[05:31] <Keybuk> we don't support CF that well
[05:31] <Keybuk> so I'm not that surprised it's broken
[05:31] <Keybuk> especially for your root filesystem :p
[05:31] <Gadi> but, this is the CF that boots!
[05:31] <Gadi> lol
[05:32] <Keybuk> you did break=mount ?
[05:32] <Gadi> yup
[05:32] <Gadi> btw, it has no /dev/disk either
[05:33] <Gadi> yet boots fine
[05:33] <Keybuk> nothing other than ram in /sys/block ?
[05:34] <Gadi> yup
[05:35] <Keybuk> uname -r ?
[05:35] <Gadi> 2.6.15-23-386
[05:36] <Gadi> (on both chips)
[05:37] <Keybuk> fun
[05:38] <Gadi> only real diff between the 2 is that one is dapper straight and the other is dapper off of dist-upgrade
[05:39] <Gadi> and the dist-upgrade is the one that boots
[05:39] <Keybuk> oh, wait
[05:39] <Keybuk> sorry
[05:39] <Keybuk> . /conf/initramfs.conf
[05:39] <Keybuk> . /scripts/functions
[05:39] <Keybuk> run_scripts /scripts/local-top
[05:39] <Keybuk> that'll make the necessary bits show up
[05:40] <Keybuk> (where "." is part of the command)
[05:40] <Gadi> right
[05:41] <Gadi> running...
[05:41] <infinity> Someone should shove "source" in dash, for the sole purpose of disambiguating IRC instructions.
[05:41] <Gadi> yes
[05:41] <Gadi> now I get /dev/disk
[05:41] <Gadi> lemme check /sys/block
[05:41] <infinity> I guess I could just "alias source='.'" in initramfs's init, so we have it there for giving instructions. :)
[05:42] <Gadi> hey hey
[05:42] <Gadi> so, /sys/block/hdc/removable is 0 here
[05:42] <Keybuk> right
[05:42] <elmo> what's right click on a mac?
[05:42] <Keybuk> elmo: F12
[05:43] <Gadi> so, what sets that?
[05:43] <Gadi> not the kernel?
[05:43] <Keybuk> Gadi: kernel
[05:43] <Gadi> but, Im using same kernel
[05:43] <Gadi> ?
[05:43] <infinity> Gadi: Is this just two different CF cards being swapped out of the same reader?
[05:43] <Gadi> yes
[05:44] <Gadi> its an CF slot on the ide bus
[05:44] <infinity> Curious.
[05:44] <Gadi> ah, wait
[05:44] <Gadi> there is one diff
[05:44] <Gadi> the one that boots has 2 partitions, but the one that doesnt has 1
[05:45] <Gadi> maybe thats what the kernel uses to determine if its removable?
[05:45] <infinity> Shouldn't, but it wouldn't surprise me either.
[05:45] <Gadi> strange criteria
[05:45] <infinity> Is GRUB installed to the MBR on both, to the first partition, etc?
[05:46] <Gadi> first partition on both
[05:46] <infinity> If it's installed on the first partition, what's on the MBR?
[05:46] <Gadi> good question
[05:46] <infinity> One could have a DOS MBR, one could be blank/gibberish.
[05:46] <infinity> That could relate.
[05:46] <infinity> ANy number of subtle things.
[05:46] <Gadi> maybe - thanks guys
[05:46] <infinity> If anyone feels like following that codepath instead of guessing, be my guest. :)
[05:46] <Gadi> I think you've given me enough to crack it
[05:47] <infinity> Also, is the first partition set "bootable" in both cases?
[05:47] <infinity> Blah blah blah.
[05:47] <Gadi> well that is a yes for sure
[05:47] <infinity> (Since I have no idea what criteria may be used to determine one CF card is removable and the other is a static disk..)
[05:47] <Gadi> right
[05:48] <Gadi> I think I am going to repartition this bad boy and see if it boots
[05:48] <Gadi> and if not, ill investigate the MBR
[05:48] <Gadi> thx again
[05:48] <infinity> Have fun. :)
[05:48] <infinity> If you discover something cool/interesting, do come back and share with the class.
[05:49] <infinity> I'm getting curious now, but not curkious enough to dive into the kernel and actually divine the answer from the code.
[05:49] <infinity> (Almost, though..)
[05:49] <giftnudel> infinity: let's wait 5 minutes and see if you get bored, you might then :)
[05:50] <pingar> HEI!
[05:50] <pingar> whoops. wrong window.
[05:50] <giftnudel> pingar: hello anyway :)
[05:52] <elmo> anyone got a macbook pro?  the hotkeys/function keys don't seem to work at all
[05:52] <elmo> this is a slightly large flaw when you need f12 to right click
[05:52] <mjg59> elmo: Why did ejb leave Debian?
[05:52] <infinity> elmo: We only set up the F12/right-click thing on powerpc machines.
[05:53] <elmo> infinity: DOH
[05:54] <infinity> adconrad@royal:~$ tail -n 4 /etc/sysctl.conf 
[05:54] <infinity> # Emulate the middle mouse button with F11 and the right with F12.
[05:54] <infinity> dev/mac_hid/mouse_button_emulation = 1
[05:54] <infinity> dev/mac_hid/mouse_button2_keycode = 87
[05:54] <infinity> dev/mac_hid/mouse_button3_keycode = 88
[05:54] <infinity> No idea if that would even work on an i386 kernel, but you can try.
[05:54] <infinity> elmo: ^^^
[05:57] <elmo> mjg59: he was kicked out?
[05:57] <elmo> infinity: no dice
[05:57] <infinity> Yeah, didn't figure it would work...
[05:57] <elmo> any reason  fglrx wouldn't work on a macbook pro?
[05:58] <infinity> The lack of a VGA BIOS may confuse it.  No idea, though.
[05:59] <mjg59> elmo: If you're booting in bios compatibility mode, it should work fie
[06:00] <elmo> mm, I don't know what Colin did
[06:00] <elmo> cjwatson: ?
[06:01] <infinity> There's a claim that the dapper kernel supports mouse button emulation...
[06:01] <infinity> On some random website. :)
[06:01] <infinity> Oh, not so random, it's desrt's page.
[06:03] <elmo> god I can't even get to the terminal on this thing
[06:03] <elmo> this is such a cluster #"$Y#
[06:03] <infinity> But it's pretty, so that counts for something.
[06:04] <tfheen> infinity: I beg to disagree.  The macbooks are ugly. :-)
[06:04] <elmo> tfheen: luca says "thanks"
[06:04] <infinity> tfheen: As a sleek, black IBM lover, I agree.
[06:05] <elmo> ok, so I can't get to terminals because there ARE no consoles - apparently
[06:05] <elmo> WTF
[06:06] <infinity> No appropriate console driver in the kernel for macbooks?
[06:07] <infinity> If you were booting with bootcamp, you'd likely get a classic PC-style VGA-text (or vesafb or vga16fb) console out of it, I suspect.
[06:07] <mjg59> elmo: Or he may have jumped. Not sure.
[06:07] <elmo> macbookpro != well supported hardware
[06:07] <elmo> mjg59: no, I am sure
[06:07] <mjg59> I'm being given awfully vague information
[06:07] <elmo> sorry, the "?" was rhetorical or something
[06:07] <mjg59> Now I'm even more confused
[06:07] <mjg59> :(((((
[06:07] <elmo> mjg59: I can give you more details but a) later and b) probably off-chan? (this one at least)
[06:08] <mjg59> elmo: Sure, no problem
[06:09] <elmo> infinity: where's this page?
[06:10] <elmo> I've got everything except hotkeys and right click now
[06:11] <mdz> Mez: katapult completely failing to launch sounds severe, yes
[06:11] <mdz> Mez: but how is it that no one noticed until now
[06:11] <mdz> ?
[06:12] <superm1> I was considering starting a project that would focus around a customized live cd with ubuiqity modified and tailored much more towards mythtv setup and associated applications to go with it.  Should I write a spec for this, or how is the best way to go about it "officially"?
[06:13] <infinity> elmo: http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/macbook.xhtml
[06:14] <infinity> elmo: You can do right-clickwith xmodmap, if you don't care about it working in the console, but the theory is that there's a kernel driver that should be making a bunch of hotkeys (and the right-click emulation) work.. At least, if I'm reading the page right.
[06:14] <elmo> this page is full of lies
[06:14] <elmo> it's like "merged in dapper, fixed in dapper"
[06:14] <elmo> and none of it works in edgy
[06:14] <mjg59> It all was
[06:14] <mjg59> If it's reverted in edgy, that's because the patches got lost at some point
[06:15] <elmo> ok, then edgy is full of ugly ugly ugly regressions for this machine
[06:15] <mjg59> Complete absence of bug reports that I've seen, I'm afraid
[06:15] <mjg59> And no hardware here
[06:15] <mjg59> That does suck, though
[06:15] <mjg59> Can you file a bug against the kernel?
[06:15] <mjg59> We'll presumably be pushing an update at some stage...
[06:15] <infinity> I'd have expected desrt to track edgy and whine loudly if this stuff broke...
[06:15] <mjg59> Yeah, I'd have thought
[06:16] <mjg59> Unless it all ended up macbook (not pro) specific, or something crack like that
[06:16] <infinity> Though it's pretty telling that we only had one MacBook user (or only one willing to file bugs)
[06:16] <Mez> mdz: it has been noticed, in July ... but I only found out about it lately...
[06:16] <mjg59> Well, the installer doesn't work
[06:16] <infinity> mjg59: His page mentions Pro and non-Pro off and on, so I assume some of it's been tested on both.
[07:15] <cjwatson> elmo: ctrl-alt-fn-f1 might work to get to consoles (press in that order)?
[07:15] <cjwatson> or ctrl-cmd-... - try the various combinations
[07:15] <cjwatson> elmo: if this is Luca's box, there are definitely consoles, because I used them
[07:16] <cjwatson> elmo: I set it up to boot using refit. I think it's in BIOS compatibility mode but I'm not certain
[07:16] <cjwatson> elmo: the mac_hid configuration thing is a bit of a mess. I think the right answer may be just to change the defaults in the kernel rather than messing about further with procps
[07:17] <cjwatson> elmo: but yeah, mac_hid would kind of need to be available in the kernel ...
[07:18] <elmo> cjwatson: when I stopped gdm remotely, it went to a blank screen
[07:18] <elmo> cjwatson: and none of the combos I tried got me to a combo, but *shrug* that's less important right now, I worked around it by ssh-ing in
[07:18] <cjwatson> elmo: did you try chvt 1?
[07:18] <cjwatson> elmo: alternatively it could be that X buggered up the console
[07:18] <elmo> cjwatson: ah, no didn't occur to me
[07:18] <cjwatson> elmo: oh, hmm, might be worth trying fbdev? it'll be slower, but might work better ...
[07:19] <cjwatson> maybe vesa doesn't know how to restore whatever the heck the fb is on the macbook (I forget)
[07:19] <cjwatson> elmo: installing that machine was why I suddenly made myself the assignee for intel-mac-support, because it was such a nightmare to make work at all
[07:22] <elmo> cjwatson: yeah, it's a horror show, it's looking a little better now
[07:22] <elmo> with the addition of restricted and fglrx, I've got decent X, sound, and wireless at least
[07:23] <thom> is that a core duo or a core2 duo?
[07:24] <elmo> not sure, the laptop (and it's owner) have left for the day
[07:24] <thom> ah
[07:25] <thom> cos i was thinking about acquiring a core2 duo one as a desktop replacement
[07:47] <doko> mdz, cjwatson: still working? if yes, please see bug 68380 and bug 68396
[07:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68380 in eclipse "eclipse for edgy-updates" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68380
[07:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68396 in openoffice.org "openoffice.org for edgy-updates" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68396
[07:54] <Flk> mjg59: m0000000000000
[07:55] <mjg59> Flk: Ha
[07:59] <mdz> doko: please email
[08:34] <cjwatson> elmo: oh good
[08:48] <Gadi> infinity: do you know what the event loops issue is in udev wrt accessing removable devices on the ide bus?
[08:48] <Gadi> Im thinking about just changing that rule in my initramfs
[09:26] <jonh_wendell> How can i proceed to suggest a new version of a package (in main)
[09:27] <jonh_wendell> just open a new bug against the package?
[09:32] <G0SUB> what is the use of the ``terminal multiplexor[sic] '' service in Edgy?
[09:32] <G0SUB> I am curious about what it does
[09:33] <Burgwork> jonh_wendell: yes, but it would be for feisty, not edgy
[09:33] <Burgwork> jonh_wendell: which app?
[09:33] <jonh_wendell> Burgwork: rdesktop. Just filled the bug 68701
[09:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68701 in rdesktop "New version (1.5), sync from debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68701
[09:33] <jonh_wendell> Burgwork: and about edgy-updates?
[09:34] <Burgwork> nope
[09:34] <jonh_wendell> :(
[09:35] <G0SUB> jonh_wendell: if and only if it has a dataloss bug, we can publish a new version via edgy-updates
[09:35] <Burgwork> it can backported
[09:36] <jonh_wendell> ok, i understood
[09:37] <jonh_wendell> btw, is the way the bug was reported correct?
[09:47] <sladen> cjwatson: I have a HP DL360-G5 here which doesn't get any further than the first blue installation screen.  Same on dapper and etch
[09:52] <mantiena-baltix> pitti: hi, are you alive ?
[09:52] <neuralis> sladen: which screen is that? keyboard selection?
[10:05] <sladen> neuralis: just after keyboard selection for Ubuntu;  just before keyboard selection for etch (might have got them switched, each cycles takes $time)
[10:12] <neuralis> sladen: ilo2 bug, most likely, there's a patch; i spoke to benc about it, but he thinks it's in ubuntu's kernel already
[10:12] <neuralis> sladen: debian bug 384202
[10:12] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 384202 in installation-reports "Failure on systems with HP iLO 2" [Important,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/384202
[10:14] <neuralis> sladen: (rather, he thinks it should even be in the dapper kernel, where i can replicate your problem; .17 upstream should have it, so it really ought to work with edgy)
[10:15] <neuralis> sladen: as a temporary measure, you can start in expert mode and simply bypass the keyboard selection step.
[10:55] <G0SUB> edgy seems to be way more resource hungry than dapper
[10:56] <G0SUB> it took > 15 minutes on a machine with 256 MB RAM to load the live CD
[10:58] <pygi> G0SUB: no, not really =)
[10:58] <pygi> G0SUB: I tried running it multiple times on 256MB machines
[10:58] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB: what kind of machine ?
[10:58] <G0SUB> pygi: running? or loading the live CD?
[10:59] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: it's a newish celeron based laptop
[10:59] <pygi> G0SUB: well, running the live cd, which means it also had to load ;)
[10:59] <G0SUB> pygi: odd.
[11:00] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB: probably some bug somewhere I'd guess
[11:00] <pygi> G0SUB: what's the drive? QDC as always? :P
[11:00] <G0SUB> pygi: it certainly has some issues with laptops. i should investigate where it stalls
[11:00] <G0SUB> pygi: don't know, it's not mine.
[11:00] <pygi> G0SUB: what's with drive's DMA?
[11:01] <G0SUB> pygi: in any case, the newer usplash (though fantastic) has some issues with vga=xxx kernel param
[11:01] <G0SUB> pygi: DMA is surely on
[11:01] <pygi> G0SUB: about vga, I know :-/
[11:01] <azeem> G0SUB: did you try the noapic boot option?
[11:01] <G0SUB> pygi: any fixes?
[11:01] <G0SUB> azeem: no. what does it do?
[11:02] <pygi> G0SUB: you could try running vga=normal 
[11:02] <sladen> neuralis: thanks for the work-around.  Good news is that latest etch daily works
[11:02] <G0SUB> pygi: well, normal will be just normal. I want vga=791
[11:02] <azeem> G0SUB: how long did booting the dapper livecd take on that notebook?
[11:02] <pygi> G0SUB: right, well it has it's problems =P
[11:02] <pygi> that's just usplash :P
[11:02] <pygi> it had even more serious problems before :P
[11:03] <G0SUB> azeem: the hdd install is < 45 secs. don't remember the live cd one. in any case, far far less than this one.
[11:03] <G0SUB> pygi: I sure hope they will be fixed.
[11:03] <pygi> G0SUB: in -updates perhaps, dunno
[11:03] <azeem> G0SUB: then I suggest you try noapic, it fixed a similar symptom for a notebook I tested
[11:03] <G0SUB> azeem: trying right now
[11:13] <G0SUB> azeem: nope, didn't help.
[11:13] <azeem> :-/
[11:14] <G0SUB> azeem: it took a LOT of time to go past the squashfs stage and then got stuck at loading GDM (I see the gdm background and cursor)
[11:14] <G0SUB> may be the CDROM drive is to blame
[11:15] <G0SUB> pygi: do you know what major changes has been made to usplash this time?
[11:17] <ubuntu_demon> I reported a bug today. On my girlfriend's pc with a real crappy monitor she can't see usplash while booting. She only sees a black screen.
[11:18] <sladen> ubuntu_demon: does the monitor power off?
[11:18] <ubuntu_demon> I don't know whether it should be assigned to usplash or initramfs-tools or the kernel. Here's the bug : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/68647
[11:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68647 in initramfs-tools "[maybe initramfs-tools or usplash?]  black screen during usplash. Ubuntu boots fine" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:19] <ubuntu_demon> sladen: it appears to just show a black screen. It's old crappy 14" monitor.
[11:20] <ubuntu_demon> sladen: I always have to turn the monitor off by pressing the off button .. that's how old it is ;)
[11:20] <ubuntu_demon> sladen: it appears to not get any signal until gdm is reached
[11:20] <ubuntu_demon> sladen: but I'm not sure. I'm no expert at monitors 
[11:21] <G0SUB> sladen: can you kindly take a look at bug 68545 too? is there any fix for it?
[11:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68545 in usplash "Behaves incorrectly with a custom vga=791 kernel parameter" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68545
[11:21] <stgraber> ubuntu_demon: what's the value of the vga= parameter in /boot/grub/menu.lst ?
[11:21] <Mez> evening sladen
[11:21] <ubuntu_demon> stgraber: There's no vga= option by default I tried vga=normal. it didn't help
[11:24] <ubuntu_demon> I turned of the lights in this room. It really gets no signal while usplash .. it emits no light at all 
[11:24] <pygi> G0SUB: Dunno really, but I was using usplash since ages ago from cvs 
[11:24] <pygi> G0SUB: splashy also, and it seems to behave a bit better
[11:24] <pygi> tho it also had the vga= problem at start
[11:24] <jonh_wendell> any firefox guy here?
[11:25] <G0SUB> pygi: splashy is what i used way back ...
[11:25] <pygi> jonh_wendell: just ask what you need ^_^
[11:25] <jonh_wendell> pygi: look at bug 68510 please
[11:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68510 in firefox "firefox crashes when looking at google maps" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68510
[11:26] <jonh_wendell> should i reject it or ask for more tests?
[11:26] <pygi> o joy, flash :P
[11:26] <sladen> ubuntu_demon: does the monitor go on standby?
[11:27] <sladen> ubuntu_demon: or is the monitor old enough to not do things like standby?
[11:27] <pygi> jonh_wendell: you could ask to try to provide "howto crash ff in that particular case"
[11:27] <pygi> jonh_wendell: if no usable response withnin few days, close
[11:27] <pygi> jonh_wendell: my suggestion:)
[11:28] <ubuntu_demon> sladen: I *think* the monitor is too old to be able to go on standby
[11:28] <jonh_wendell> pygi: ok, thanks
[11:28] <G0SUB> bah! it seems stellarium on i386 is completely broken
[11:29] <sladen> evening mez
[11:30] <ubuntu_demon> I filed the bug to initramfs-tools because I didn't know whether I should file it to usplash or initramfs-tools
[11:30] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: can you check if stellarium works?
[11:31] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB : not related to this usplash/initramfs-tools/? bug right ?
[11:31] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: not at all. different bug
[11:32] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB : thought so ;) wanted to make sure
[11:32] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB : I'll try it on my laptop then ;)
[11:32] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: try anywhere, it seg faults when i try to run it here (i386)
[11:33] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB: okay. I will try it with my current running generic kernel 
[11:35] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB: doesn't segfault here. At what moment does it segfault ? What's the link to the bug ?
[11:36] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: I am reporting the bug. let me investigate it a bit first
[11:36] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB: I'm running the latest Edgy generic kernel with an intel Core Duo
[11:37] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: i am on the default kernel too, but a P-4 M proc
[11:37] <pygi> sivang: ping?
[11:38] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB: I'm not on the default kernel which is 386 AFAIK. I installed linux-generic
[11:38] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: i am on the generaic one too. IIRC on edgy generic is 686 or 586
[11:38] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB: okay :)
[11:40] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: man, the core dump is 18 MB !!
[11:41] <ubuntu_demon> G0SUB: :)
[11:41] <G0SUB> (gzipped)
[11:42] <ubuntu_demon> Does anyone have any insight in : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/68328 it's about hibernate/suspend for my laptop
[11:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68328 in linux-source-2.6.17 "suspend-to-ram and hibernate-to-disk don't work properly." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:43] <ubuntu_demon> I'm especially wondering whether I can provide more useful information somehow for that one
[11:45] <ubuntu_demon> I will be away for a bit 
[11:45] <ubuntu_demon> (offtopic : I will stay logged on and will check back after I watched naruto)
[11:49] <bluefoxicy> did anyone teach Edgy to not start X until something figures out what video card we have and if it's changed from last boot and updates X?
[11:49] <bluefoxicy> or is my soon to be attempted switch to an nVidia FX5200 going to result in my computer booting to "X KEEPS CRASHING HELP :(" mode?
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> (yes I'll find out when I actually try; the question is more posed as a reminder that this definitely needs to be addressed some day)
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> (But I'm curious too, I know upstart's able to do stuff like this.... :)
[11:55] <G0SUB> ubuntu_demon: bug 68724
[11:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68724 in stellarium "Stellarium crashes at start-up" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68724
[12:06] <ajmitch> morning
[12:07] <surak> night, ajmitch. Where are you? :-)
[12:08] <ajmitch> surak: New Zealand
[12:09] <ubuntu_demon> good night guys :)