[03:38] <Hobbsee> !wifi
[03:38] <ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[03:39] <Hobbsee> !hardware
[03:39] <ubotu> For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport
[04:08] <Hawkwind> This whole .hidden file thing is getting hammered in many bad ways on the ML's and forums.  Everyone is pretty upset with that so called feature
[04:25] <Hobbsee> people, check out dolphin as a file manager at some point
[04:26] <Hawkwind> Hobbsee: That must be in Edgy only ?
[04:27] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:27] <Hobbsee> who uses dapper anyway?  :P
[04:28] <Hawkwind> Hah.  I'm not going to Edgy on this box(my main box) until things settle down a bit
[04:28] <Hobbsee> they're settled
[04:29] <Hobbsee> things wont be added, except minor updates, and security fixes
[04:29] <Hobbsee> grabbing breakfast
[04:29] <Hawkwind> Yeah, just too many problems right now that I don't want to deal with, nor really have the time to break my main system
[07:55] <lnxkde> hi
[07:56] <lnxkde> wew I can find the packages list on edgy?
[07:56] <Hobbsee> packages.ubuntu.com
[07:57] <crimsun> time to get a head start on these Feisty merges
[07:58] <Hobbsee> i thought they hadnt finished building the toolchain yet
[07:58] <crimsun> oh I'm not uploading to upload.ubuntu.com
[07:58] <Hobbsee> hah
[07:58] <crimsun> I'm just merging and bzr pushing
[07:58] <lnxkde> were I can find the packages list on edgy?
[07:58] <Hobbsee> oops :P
[07:59] <Hobbsee> [17:56]  <lnxkde> wew I can find the packages list on edgy?
[07:59] <Hobbsee> [17:56]  <Hobbsee> packages.ubuntu.com
[07:59] <crimsun> hey, where can I find the package list for Edgy? ;)
[07:59] <lnxkde> crimsun:  :p
[07:59] <Hobbsee> crimsun: for you, it's packages.debian.net
[08:00] <lnxkde> crimsun:  I want to make a nice KDE with the same packages kubuntu edgy has on the install disk  for the VLOS project :)
[08:01] <crimsun> but...but...there's no pony?!
[08:01] <Hobbsee> crimsun: indeed.  there's no pony
[08:02] <lnxkde> looks like I wil l have to install It
[08:02] <lnxkde> :(
[08:03] <lnxkde> I need a list of the default ppackages on the CD
[08:03] <crimsun> apt-get source kubuntu-meta
[08:03] <crimsun> then read the kubuntu-desktop seed
[08:03] <Hobbsee> crimsun: germinate or whatever will tell you that, surely?
[08:03] <mhb_> morning
[08:04] <Hobbsee> hey mhb_ 
[08:04] <lnxkde> crimsun:  I dont have kubuntu installed :(
[08:04] <Hobbsee> hi Jucato 
[08:04] <lnxkde> lovely crimsun :D can you make a odt with that list for me ;)??
[08:05] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee! :)
[08:05] <crimsun> lnxkde: so? http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/source/kubuntu-meta
[08:05] <lnxkde> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[08:05] <crimsun> not that Hobbsee didn't mention that, oh, 9 minutes ago
[08:05] <Hobbsee> no, not at all
[08:06] <Hobbsee> people seem to want to be absolutely spoonfed today, when talking about creating their own distros
[08:06] <crimsun> tehe
[08:06] <lnxkde> Hobbsee: VLOS is not my distro
[08:06] <lnxkde> Hobbsee: www.vidalinux.com
[08:06] <lnxkde> is a old distro the first gentoo based one
[08:06] <Hobbsee> i mean, a) why?  and b)  if you're going to go to the bother of that, and fail, why not just fail earlier rather than later, and use that extra time to work on something you will succeed at?
[08:06] <lnxkde> but KDE on it sucks
[08:07] <Hobbsee> lnxkde: i'm also referrign to the other guy in -motu a while ago
[08:07] <lnxkde> Hobbsee: I just want to help the distro because Is from my home nation :)
[08:07] <lnxkde> is the only distro from Puerto Rico
[08:07] <Hobbsee> lnxkde: fair enough
[08:07] <lnxkde> and it is nice :) but It need KDE help badly
[08:08] <lnxkde> hehe and since I have been using kubuntu for sometime
[08:08] <lnxkde> I think kubuntu is the best role model to copy
[08:08] <mhb_> lnxkde: better improve (K)Ubuntu so that it will be as translated as the national distro
[08:08] <lnxkde> I love kubuntu package selection :)
[08:09] <Hobbsee> mhb_: that's the more sensible option, yes
[08:09] <Hobbsee> mhb_: or do as the ichutux people do - have a metapackage of the stuff that they want in universe, and update that.
[08:10] <Hobbsee> mhb_: i replied to your testing feisty stuff, btw
[08:10] <mhb_> Huahua: I've seen that, thanks
[08:10] <mhb_> Huahua: sorry .o) for Hobbsee 
[08:10] <mhb_> Hobbsee: I've seen that, thanks
[08:10] <Hobbsee> heh
[08:11] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:11] <lnxkde> I love kubuntu.
[08:11] <lnxkde> but I love Gentoo too
[08:11] <lnxkde> :)
[08:12] <lnxkde> I have a Desktop with Vlos64/Vlos32  going to install in my laptop Kubuntu
[08:12] <Jucato> "Thou shalt have no other gods besides me"
[08:12] <lnxkde> but I dont know. 
[08:12] <lnxkde> Jucato: very funy
[08:12] <Jucato> just kidding :)
[08:12] <mhb_> Hobbsee: I agree with you, there's no need to test anything yet (and won't be for quite some time), I just want to inform Testers that we could help out with this 
[08:12] <Hobbsee> right.  my sound is really screwed.  it's not just my speakers
[08:12] <Hobbsee> mhb_: there's unmet deps, etc
[08:13] <Hobbsee> but yeah, not that much to test yet, i dont think
[08:14] <lnxkde> Hobbsee:  so kubuntu does not install the whole kdebase?
[08:14] <lnxkde> I didnt know that
[08:14] <Hobbsee> lnxkde: nope
[08:15] <mhb_> Hobbsee: I want to use this "ceasefire" - devel phase - to organize testers a bit, decide what we should work on for Feisty etc.
[08:15] <Hobbsee> mhb_: sounds good to me
[08:16] <lnxkde> mhb_ :D
[08:16] <lnxkde> thankx guys
[08:17] <lnxkde> I always hang out here and in kubuntu :)
[08:17] <Jucato> lnxkde: if you look into the depends of the kubuntu-desktop metapackage, you'll see which parts of KDE is installed
[08:17] <lnxkde> Jucato: yes
[08:17] <lnxkde> that is why I asked
[08:17] <lnxkde> ;)
[08:17] <Jucato> :)
[08:18] <lnxkde> Jucato: I started doing that in my KDE VLOS desktop but resulted ina big mess beause I didnt know what packages to install to make it a nice desktop
[08:18] <lnxkde> but with this help I will get it working in no time 
[08:18] <lnxkde> emerge app app app app app app -b and done :)
[08:19] <Jucato> I install kde-core. the most basic KDE you can ever have. of course I needed to install a few more stuff to really get it going.
[08:19] <Jucato> kdebase is too basic for me, btw :P
[08:19] <lnxkde> Jucato:  I always add a lot of apps 
[08:19] <lnxkde> but I never install  the whole KDE
[08:19] <lnxkde> is too bloated
[08:20] <lnxkde> hehe the current KDE of vlos has the whole KDE installed
[08:20] <lnxkde> koversation is not there but kvirc
[08:20] <Jucato> whoa... "kde" installs *everything*....
[08:20] <Hobbsee> indeed
[08:20] <lnxkde> and a lot of awfull apps that I personally hate
[08:21] <Jucato> lnxkde: I guess it's because konvi isn't part of the main KDE. Like Amarok, it's an extragear app
[08:21] <lnxkde> kaffeine amarok (xine) kwrite koffice kopete konqueror :)
[08:21] <lnxkde> that are my main apps :)
[08:21] <Jucato> )
[08:22] <lnxkde> and k3b sure
[08:22] <lnxkde> :)
[08:22] <Jucato> oh I forgot the eyes... ":)"
[08:23] <lnxkde> eyes is game?
[08:23] <Hobbsee> poor blind smiley....
[08:23] <lnxkde> ohh now
[08:23] <lnxkde> hehe
[08:23] <Jucato> heheh
[08:24] <sredna> Hi
[08:24] <lnxkde> guys whant to sse my desktop?
[08:24] <Jucato> hi sredna :)
[08:24] <sredna> Where can I find instructions on how to install kde4 on edgy? Apt gives up due to dependency problems
[08:24] <Hobbsee> sredna: there wasnt info on kubuntu.org about that?
[08:25] <sredna> Hobbsee: Nothing I can find
[08:25] <Jucato> sredna: the link I gave?
[08:25] <crimsun> http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-3.80.1.php ?
[08:26] <Hobbsee> that's what i was thinking of
[08:26] <lnxkde> http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/825/lnxkdekdepd2.png
[08:26] <sredna> crimsun: As I said, apt gives in
[08:27] <Hobbsee> sredna: that's not the latest kde 4 - that was only the crash release
[08:27] <Hobbsee> that's not the latest svn
[08:27] <Hobbsee> s/crash/krash
[08:27] <sredna> Hobbsee: I just try to install the packages that are in the default sources
[08:28] <sredna> Hobbsee: The announcement claimed that kubuntu would be a good platform for kde4 development
[08:28] <sredna> Bu8t appearantly, there are some rivers to cross first
[08:28] <crimsun> sredna: what "apt" messages?
[08:29] <sredna> crimsun: They are in danish, and too long for a irc channel
[08:29] <crimsun> a pastebin's fine
[08:29] <sredna> I can't remember the URL of one
[08:29] <crimsun> paste.ubuntu-nl.org
[08:31] <sredna> http://paste.debian.net/15759
[08:34] <crimsun> sredna: apt-cache policy python-qt4
[08:35] <sredna> crimsun: The output makes no sense
[08:35] <sredna> But in the search listing, it is displayed as 'iB'
[08:35] <crimsun> there seems to be a missing deb line, since there's no valid reference to "the qt4 kdecopy packages"
[08:35] <sredna> Whic could mean 'blocked'?
[08:37] <crimsun> sredna: you'll want to ask Rid.dell about the Qt4 dependency issue
[08:37] <crimsun> (minus full stop)
[08:37] <sredna> crimsun: I will
[08:37] <sredna> Sometime, for now I'll stop wasting my sunday
[08:38] <Jucato> sredna: yeah. enjoy your sunday. only comes once a week :)
[08:49] <sredna> In gentoo there was something like package.provides, that allowed to solve such issues
[08:50] <sredna> It appears that kubuntu installed some packages that depends on the standard qt4, which needs to be replaced with the kdecopy version
[08:50] <sredna> So it's just plain old package manager brokenness
[08:51] <sredna> So much for the almighty apt
[08:51] <Jucato> O_O
[08:52] <crimsun> he wasn't looking for anything but a fight
[08:52] <crimsun> next time I won't even waste my time
[08:53] <crimsun> for the record, it's not the package manager's fault the deb source isn't known
[08:55] <Jucato> sredna == Anders Lund (I think...)
[08:56] <Jucato> he should have talked to Riddel... :(
[09:52] <seaLne> does anyone ever get konq behaving like this: http://stuff.duffus.org/tmp/ss2.png ? it happens a lot to me
[09:53] <seaLne> basically it shows part of another desktop
[09:54] <seaLne> konq is on desktop 4 and the artifact at the bottom is from desktop 1
[09:55] <seaLne> its as if its not redrawing
[11:01] <imbrandon> mhb_, rockin job on the email, i think thats gonna help alot come next release cycle ( given its a bit early to start now as hobbsee said but once the merges are done , or close to being done it will rock )
[11:02] <Jucato> moin imbrandon! :)
[11:03] <mhb_> imbrandon: thanks. :o) Yes, I agree with you and Hobbsee, it's too early now but I want to get the organization part done before the actual testing part
[11:04] <Jucato> mhb_: definitely a great idea. I'm willing to use the 5GB partition I have setup for FAT32 just for testing next time :)
[11:08] <imbrandon> mhb_, yup definately
[11:08] <mhb_> Jucato: good
[11:08] <imbrandon> mhb_, the more we have in #kubunut-testers the better
[11:08] <Jucato> I have no need for FAT32 anyway lol
[11:08] <imbrandon> ( at the right times of course hehe )
[11:09] <Jucato> yeah... that's why I'm not going there yet lol :)
[11:09] <Jucato> j/k
[12:08] <danimo> moin!
[12:09] <Hobbsee> hey danimo 
[12:10] <danimo> heya Hobbsee
[12:10] <danimo> oh god I LOVE slashdot :)
[12:11] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[12:11] <Hobbsee> yeah
[12:11] <Hobbsee> you'll notice that most of the comments say that they had a couple, or no problems
[12:11] <Hobbsee> clearly people installing crack arent posting on slashdot :P
[12:11] <danimo> it tries to resolve the IP (!) for each ping, but only if you pass it a hostname that needs to be resolved
[12:12] <danimo> can somebody confirm with strace?
[12:13] <mhb_> what's up with /. ?
[12:13] <danimo> mhb_: the usual stuff, really
[12:14] <danimo> nothing to see there, move along
[12:14] <Jucato> what's not to love about it? heheh :)
[12:14] <mhb_> the same stuff I've been reading all over the net
[12:15] <Jucato> well, besides the already known issues in upgrading... :)
[12:15] <Hobbsee> they've installed crack, what do they expect
[12:15] <Hobbsee> anyway, this rant is already going on in #ubuntu-motu :P
[12:16] <Jucato> which I dare not join. lol :)
[12:16] <danimo> Hobbsee: any new meaning of "crack" ?
[12:16] <Jucato> you go listen to rants... I go read them in /.
[12:17] <Hobbsee> danimo: crack as in, the stuff from the crack pipe.
[12:17] <Hobbsee> ie, smoking crack
[12:17] <Hobbsee> Jucato: feel free to join
[12:17] <Jucato> Hobbsee: ehehe. I think /. is enough for me tonight... 
[12:17] <Jucato> anymore and my poor wittle head might explode
[12:18] <danimo> Hobbsee: ok, so no new meaning
[12:18] <Hobbsee> danimo: correct
[12:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: hehe.   the /. stuff says it mostly worked, when i read it
[12:19] <Jucato> ah
[12:19] <Jucato> which /. article? the one about upgrading is a nightmare, or the one about Edgy being released (300+ comments)?
[12:20] <Hobbsee> upgrading being a nightmare
[12:20] <Jucato> ah :)
[12:20] <Hobbsee> the current discussion is about beryl by default
[12:20] <apokryphos> beryl by default would never work
[12:21] <Jucato> oh... not interested then :P (at least not yet)
[12:21] <apokryphos> even novell don't have compiz enabled by default, and their checkout for SLED is way more stable; they just have an easy option to enable it
[12:21] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: mark wants it.
[12:21] <Jucato> O_O
[12:21] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: where was it mentioned?
[12:21] <Jucato> sabdfl has spoken!
[12:21] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: the spec
[12:21] <Jucato> for Feisty?
[12:22] <apokryphos> he likes pushing things to the bleeding edge
[12:22] <Hobbsee> yes well
[12:22] <apokryphos> that's why there was evil cups in dapper, right? ;-)
[12:22] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: even if you cant print, that doesnt mean that your X dies.
[12:22] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: if you're dropped to a shell...well, for most people, that's kind of critical
[12:23] <apokryphos> sure
[12:23] <danimo> wow, 150GB synced in so far
[12:23] <danimo> didn't know that a full ubuntu mirror would take so long to sync
[12:24] <Hobbsee> it does... :P
[12:24] <danimo> it's been three days now
[12:24] <danimo> but I hope it'll be better after the initial sync
[12:26] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: ohh, and he wants beryl as well, not compiz
[12:26] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: exactly
[12:27] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: and the number of complaints over beryl taking up all resources, and making things crash.....
[12:27] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: beryl is nice with its new effects, but it's certainly slower (perhaps because of the cheap patches Reveman talks about), way more unstable, and I'm not convinced that those could really be completely changed
[12:28] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: i think they're going to have fun in UDS, dont you think?
[12:28] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: that being said, stevenk is going to install some of the packages, and i'll have a look at his
[12:28] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: also, having the drivers enabled by default.... well, that's going to cause problems, isn't it?
[12:28] <Hobbsee> seeing as i'm not convinced that it would take up all my resources, and set my machine on fire
[12:28] <apokryphos> the whole argument with the kernel hackers..
[12:28] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: the entire thing would cause problems.  i would expect so
[12:29] <apokryphos> problems as in controversy, yeah
[12:29] <Hobbsee> ah right
[12:34] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: maybe if someone got a beryl checkout *now*, and worked on it until feisty release there might be something special ;-)
[12:34] <apokryphos> long process of stabilisation ;-)
[12:34] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: hehe, yeah,  maybe
[12:34] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: how stable is compiz?
[12:34] <Hobbsee> !compiz
[12:34] <ubotu> Compiz (compositing (window) manager) and XGL (Xserver architecture layered on top of OpenGL) howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager XGL+compiz help in #ubuntu-xgl  See http://tinyurl.com/pw5ez for Kubuntu systems
[12:34] <apokryphos> it's not as if it requires any more features at the time
[12:35] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: depends on your checkout. On SLED, for example, it works perfectly. I had it running perfectly (i.e. never crashing) on opensuse for a couple of months, at least.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> apokryphos: and the ubuntu repos versoin?
[12:35] <apokryphos> when I tried I didn't get it working, I had to use compiz-quinnstorm
[12:35] <Hobbsee> ah
[12:36] <apokryphos> which, like beryl but to a lesser degree, more features -> more unstable
[12:36] <Hobbsee> true
[12:37] <apokryphos> the slowdown in speed is probably more worrying, though; because it seems to me that it's the way all their code is done that's causing it (which is why Reveman wasn't happy)
[12:37] <apokryphos> whereas stability bugs are fixable, presumable
[12:37] <apokryphos> *presumably
[12:38] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: also unfortunately, with this fork, looks like it's going to be suse+compiz vs. ubuntu+beryl
[12:38] <Hobbsee> that worries me - we probably want speed over bling.  i do, anyway
[12:38] <Hobbsee> ouch
[12:46] <fdoving> sredna had a good point, you can't have libqt4-core-kdecopy and python-qt4 installed at the same time. :|
[01:18] <sredna> Hi
[01:18] <sredna> Anyone around who can explain how to install kde4 on kubuntu edgy?
[01:21] <apokryphos> hi sredna, did you install the stuff that comes under 'kde4'?
[01:22] <apokryphos> !find kde4
[01:22] <ubotu> Found: kde4base, kde4base-data, kde4base-dev, kde4libs, kde4libs-data
[01:23] <sredna> apokryphos: My attempt is to install kde4base-dev, which I reckoned would install everything else, and that is what apt want to do. The problem is that there are some apps in kubuntu-desktop that depends on vanilla qt4 packages, which are replaced with the kdecopy versions when kde4 is installed
[01:24] <apokryphos> sredna: so kubuntu-desktop is removed? That in itself shouldn't be a problem
[01:24] <sredna> apokryphos: It seems that either apt-get isn't so fantastic, or there is some errors in the package definitions
[01:24] <sredna> apokryphos: I have no idea what kubuntudesktop contains, apart from sppedcrunch, which is something that I absolutely does not use
[01:24] <sredna> The other conflict is with python-qt4
[01:25] <apokryphos> sredna: kubuntu-desktop is just a metapackage for getting you a stock kubuntu; it doesn't contain data, just depends upon other things to drag them in
[01:25] <sredna> apokryphos: And how do I see exactly what it contains?
[01:26] <apokryphos> sredna: it doesn't contain anything, it just works by depending on other packages, so when you install it, it drags in a stock kubuntu as a consequence
[01:27] <sredna> apokryphos: And even if it helps solving the practical problem for me right now, it doesn't really help. What if I really wanted speedcrunch?
[01:27] <apokryphos> sredna: could you pastebin the output if when you're installing that kdebase4-dev package?
[01:27] <apokryphos> s/if when/when/
[01:28] <sredna>  http://paste.debian.net/15759 
[01:28] <sredna> Oh, and apt-get remove kubuntu-desktop does nothing :\
[01:29] <apokryphos> the problem isn't kubuntu-desktop, I think it's the python renaming in edgy. Hm, odd
[01:29] <sredna> So this package installs some stuff. I have to read inside the package to see what
[01:29] <apokryphos> imbrandon: any ideas?
[01:30] <apokryphos> or Hobbsee 8)
[01:31] <sredna> Hm, removing speedcrunch actually changed the situation
[01:31] <sredna> Now it just uninstalls python-qt4
[01:31] <apokryphos> what is it replaced with?
[01:32] <sredna> Not really a problem for me, though python is used by some kde packages
[01:33] <sredna> But after uninstalling kubuntu-desktop, it looks like apt want to uninstall eg. Xserver-xorg along with some other kinda nice stuff for a deskttop...
[01:33] <apokryphos> are you using aptitude?
[01:33] <sredna> Yes
[01:34] <sredna> Eh, no actually, right now I use apt-get
[01:34] <sredna> I have a hard time getting the difference, apart from a slightly different syntax ;)
[01:34] <apokryphos> so which exact command wants to remove xorg etc?
[01:35] <sredna> Well, apt-get just tells me that they are now unneeded
[01:35] <sredna> I object to that!
[01:35] <apokryphos> the difference is that since aptitude tries to remove 'unused' dependencies, when k-d is removed it may well want to remove the things that are solely in because of their dependency on k-d
[01:35] <apokryphos> curious
[01:36] <sredna> It seems that I get nothing in return for python-qt4
[01:37] <sredna> .. and I'm no python fanatic :p
[01:38] <sredna> I think it would be smart if packages depending on qt4 had a way to feel safe with the kdecopy version
[01:42] <fdoving> it would.
[01:45] <fdoving> the kdecopy needs a Provies: libqt4-packages line.
[01:45] <fdoving> Provides, that is.
[01:47] <fdoving> if they are similar enought to actually do that..
[01:50] <Riddell> jings, it's sredna!
[01:51] <Jucato> ooh just the man sredna was looking for :)
[01:51] <sredna> Hi Riddell :)
[01:52] <sredna> I have now the kde4 packages installed, so that I can develop something
[01:53] <sredna> My first goal is to get the kate session menu working on kde4
[01:53] <Riddell> those packages are several weeks old, but I presume still useful for kde 4 application development
[01:54] <sredna> Hm, is there something better I can do? Compile?
[01:54] <sredna> Maybe I can use the qt packages, and compile kdelibs/kdebase
[01:54] <Riddell> yeah, install the final qt 4.2 and compile kdelibs, kdepimlibs and kdebase yourself
[01:54] <sredna> Ok, sometime soon
[01:55] <sredna> Is there a problem with the kdecopy version?
[01:55] <Riddell> only that it's some weeks old
[01:55] <Riddell> it'll probably be fine, but in some places things may have changed in trunk
[01:56] <sredna> That doesn't worry me a lot
[01:56] <Riddell> so I'd say go with kdecopy and work with that unless you find something doesn't work with it
[01:56] <sredna> As long as it will work with trunk kdelibs, when I find time to compile
[01:56] <sredna> Yea, will do. Thank you :)
[01:57] <Riddell> sredna: what are you thinking of working on?
[01:58] <sredna> Riddell: Well, I should get started working a bit on kate. For now, I will port my katesessionmenu, which can then go into 3.5.6 as well
[01:59] <sredna> I also need to learn the basics of using the new build system
[02:05] <Riddell> I get more into kate all the time
[02:11] <sredna> :-)
[02:13] <Hobbsee> yay, kate :)
[02:29] <freeflying> Hi all
[02:33] <Hobbsee> hey freeflying 
[02:34] <freeflying> Hobbsee: hi, I'm preparing a presentation for edgy, we will have a party next week, and Mark will be there :)
[02:35] <Hobbsee> freeflying: yay :)
[02:35] <Riddell> freeflying: cool, where's that?
[02:36] <freeflying> Riddell: Beijing
[02:36] <Jucato> oooh Mr. Shuttleworth will be here in the Philippines after that
[02:37] <Riddell> no titles on this channel please!
[02:37] <Jucato> oh sorry...
[02:37] <Jucato> :)
[02:38] <Hobbsee> Riddell: why no titles?
[02:38] <Jucato> hehe I thought I was going to get eaten :)
[02:38] <GNUro> Hi
[02:38] <Riddell> ciao
[02:38] <Hobbsee> s/Riddell/Mr Riddell/ :P
[02:39] <GNUro> O_o ciao! =)
[02:39] <GNUro> Riddell: parli italiano? :)
[02:39] <Jucato> o_O
[02:39] <Hobbsee> with a copy of what?
[02:39] <Riddell> GNUro: I can say "ciao", does that count?
[02:39] <GNUro> Riddell: do you speak italian? :)
[02:39] <Jucato> lolg
[02:39] <Jucato> -g
[02:39] <Riddell> oh oh, my sister in law is half italian, does that count?
[02:40] <GNUro> :)
[02:41] <freeflying_> HobbseHobbsee: Riddell do you have any video for ubuntu?
[02:42] <Hobbsee> freeflying: nope
[02:42] <Riddell> Hobbsee: missed your question there, I object to titles because they prompote inequality
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: it does if you speak to her often
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ahh.  fair enough
[02:43] <Hobbsee> Riddell: then again, people are unequal anyway
[02:43] <Hobbsee> so that cant really be helped
[02:43] <Riddell> I try to treat everyone equally
[02:43] <Hobbsee> true
[02:44] <Jucato> Hobbsee treats everyone equally with her long pointy stick of doom :)
[02:44] <Hobbsee> hehe :)
[02:45] <freeflying_> Riddell: how about the scim-qtimm?
[02:45] <Riddell> freeflying_: do you know exactly what needs to be done?
[02:46] <Hobbsee> Jucato: last i knew, Riddell wasnt a cannibal
[02:46] <freeflying_> Riddell: I have remove doko's patch, seems everything works well, except the 3rd part qt stuffs like skype
[02:47] <Jucato> Hobbsee: well, I found that out today :)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:47] <freeflying_> but I have no amd64 machine for test 
[02:47] <Riddell> freeflying_: so what's broken at the moment?
[02:47] <Jucato> nooooh!!!
[02:47] <Jucato> I'm not edible enough :P
[02:47] <Hobbsee> haha
[02:48] <Hobbsee> sure?
[02:49] <Jucato> yes. you will definitely have stomach problems tonight :)
[02:49] <freeflying_> Riddell: bugs reproted they can not input in OOo-kde with scim-qtimm, so doko patched it, but we can not reproduce that bugs
[02:50] <Hobbsee> Jucato: heh.  i'll take that risk :P
[02:50] <Hobbsee> haha
[02:51] <Riddell> freeflying_: and the patch is to scim-qtimm?
[02:51] <Riddell> freeflying_: do you know the filename of the patch?
[02:52] <freeflying_> Riddell: it make scim-qtimm link qt, so 3rd part qt stuffs can not work with scim-qtimm
[02:52] <Jucato> Riddell: btw, kde bug 136294 is fixed :)
[02:52] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 136294 in general "Amarok dialog doesn't honor "No" and still runs script" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136294
[02:53] <Hobbsee> Jucato: in 1.4.4?
[02:53] <Jucato> Hobbsee: well committed. but probably not in 1.4.4
[02:53] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:54] <Jucato> I thought 1.4.4 was released a few days back, but was withdrawn?
[02:54] <Hobbsee> it was
[02:54] <Hobbsee> it should be properly released today
[02:54] <Hobbsee> seems to be working pretty well, too
[02:55] <Jucato> ah then it couldn't have made it to 1.4.4. :)
[02:55] <Jucato> (unless they were that fast...)
[02:56] <Hobbsee> probably not
[02:56] <Hobbsee> but it doestn matter - we arent hit with another freeze for a wihle (thank goodness - they were stating to drive me mad)
[02:56] <Jucato> :P
[02:57] <Hobbsee> i'm glad that "su user" still works, even though su is disabled
[02:57] <Jucato> btw, how about patches to some KDE 3.5.5 bugs? will they be put into -updates later on?
[02:58] <Riddell> Jucato: can be if they're well documented and easy to understand
[03:04] <Jucato> ah nvm. the LP bug reports say "Fix Released" and Assigned to kde-bugs :)
[03:07] <Jucato> Hobbsee: bug 65858 has two entries: kdebase (upstream) and kdebase (Ubuntu). the upstream is marked as Fixed Release, the other is Unconfirmed. should I mark the 2nd one as Fixed Released and Assigned to kde-bugs?
[03:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65858 in kdebase "windows flicker when using "focus follows mouse" policy" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65858
[03:08] <Hobbsee> Jucato: upstream has fixed it?
[03:08] <Hobbsee> if we've got that fix in our packages from pustream, you can makr them both as fix released
[03:08] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yes. kde bug 135250
[03:08] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 135250 in general "desktop unusable due to flickering of windows if not "focus follows click"" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135250
[03:08] <Hobbsee> cool :)
[03:08] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:10] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:11] <Hobbsee> BOO!
[03:11] <Jucato> hi bddebian!
[03:11] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee, Jucato :-)
[03:11] <Jucato> Hobbsee: it's not yet Halloween :P
[03:11] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i thought it was halloween last week or something.  when is it?
[03:11] <Jucato> 30th :P
[03:12] <Jucato> er
[03:12] <Jucato> 31st
[03:12] <bddebian> 31st
[03:12] <Hobbsee> Jucato: right.  i'll turn the doorbell off on tuesday then.
[03:12] <Jucato> Hobbsee: turn off the lights, too. pretend no one's home except ghosts :P
[03:12] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's usually done during the day.  but there's a point
[03:13] <Hobbsee> maybe have bits of screaming every once in a while
[03:13] <Hobbsee> the long pointy stick of doom could play a feature role...
[03:13] <Jucato> lol
[03:13] <Hobbsee> even if they are annoying on halloween
[03:14] <Hobbsee> gah, daylight savings sucks.  i needed to be asleep a couple of hours ago, yet i'm only getting tired now.
[03:14] <Jucato> Hobbsee: au does dst too?
[03:15] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yep
[03:15] <Hobbsee> we switched last night
[03:15] <Hobbsee> which, iirc, makes our meeting times better
[03:15] <Jucato> what is wrong with you people?! :P
[03:15] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:15] <Jucato> so what time is it now there?
[03:15] <Hobbsee> 1.15am
[03:15] <Jucato> oh +3 hours...
[03:15] <Hobbsee> and i need to leave the house at about 7am
[03:16] <Hobbsee> if i want to make sure i get to all of the first uni lecture
[03:16] <Hobbsee> ie, wake up at 6
[03:16] <Jucato> doing the DST dance...
[03:16] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:17] <Jucato> even if only a few countries use DST, it upsets/offsets the whole world..
[03:17] <Hobbsee> true
[03:17] <Hobbsee> i dont mind it
[03:17] <Hobbsee> then again, i wake up at weird times anyway :P
[03:17] <Jucato> lol
[03:18] <Hobbsee> and can sleep while it's light
[03:18] <Jucato> I sleep anytime I feel sleepy. period. :P
[03:18] <Hobbsee> yeah, well
[03:19] <Hobbsee> i've fallen asleep at the sound desk at church :P
[03:19] <Hobbsee> that was interesting
[03:19] <Jucato> hehe
[03:19] <Hobbsee> fortunately, it was before the service started
[03:19] <Jucato> aah... 
[03:19] <Hobbsee> the other techies were like "you need to get more sleep"
[03:20] <Jucato> mine was while it was on-going
[03:20] <Hobbsee> and my only response was "i cant beleive i just did that"
[03:20] <Hobbsee> heh, same here
[03:20] <Jucato> hehehe
[03:21] <Jucato> anyway, marked bug 68341 as Fixed Released
[03:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68341 in kdepim "Korganizer icon in the System Tray doesn't start Korganizer" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68341
[03:21] <Jucato> because kde bug 135513
[03:21] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 135513 in general "Korganizer won't open from system tray" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135513
[03:21] <Hobbsee> the reminder daemon?
[03:22] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  that doesnt seem to open here
[03:22] <sredna> That still does not work here
[03:22] <Jucato> well, it did say that the fix was just committed :)
[03:23] <sredna> I believe it is a problem with the .desktop file
[03:23] <Hobbsee> okay, time for bed here.  night all!
[03:23] <Jucato> bug hunting for the day finished :)
[03:23] <sredna> I can't start 'korganizer' from the KDE prompt either
[03:23] <Jucato> sredna: neither can I
[03:24] <sredna> Jucato: A problem with debian or kubuntu.
[03:24] <Jucato> sredna: according to the kde bug report, debian packages are affected as well
[03:25] <sredna> Jucato: I was guessing that it has to do with some applications simply being removed from the menu in kubuntu
[03:25] <Jucato> ah
[03:25] <Jucato> @_@
[03:26] <sredna> But hey, that got me trying out kontact, something I haven't done for a long time
[03:26] <sredna> And it surely have improved ;)
[03:26] <Jucato> heh :)
[03:26] <Jucato> knotes integration still leaves something to be desired, though :(
[03:27] <sredna> Hm, I'm not really using knotes a lot
[03:28] <sredna> I used to, I guess I stopped because it didn't work very well
[03:28] <Jucato> sort of...
[03:28] <Jucato> it looks pretty though. lol
[03:28] <sredna> Now I have basket, the latest version appears to be very nice, though I'm yet to really test it
[03:43] <sredna> Riddell: Is the cmake version provided by kubuntu sufficient for kde4?
[04:06] <sebas> At the moment, yes. (The on in edgy)
[04:06] <sebas> 2.4.3 is required for KDE4 trunk afaik.
[04:41] <Viper550> I'm starting to think that we should do artwork for Kubuntu the same way we do artwork for Ubuntu
[04:42] <kwwii> Viper550: definitely, but we need more artists
[04:42] <Jucato> hi kwwii! :)
[04:42] <kwwii> howdy Jucato :-)
[04:43] <Jucato> I was just thinking about your artwork. what a coincidence :)
[04:43] <Viper550> I mean, with the whole propose, produce, polish idea
[04:43] <kwwii> Viper550: hopefully, edgy will draw the attention of a few good artists
[04:43] <kwwii> Viper550: I did follow that to a large extent
[04:44] <Viper550> And I mean truly, on the Wiki
[04:44] <Jucato> kwwii: have you thought about making the different pieces of Edgy's default looks available online? kde-look or art.ubuntu.com or art-staging.ubuntu.com?
[04:44] <kwwii> Jucato: yes, I have...since all of it is svg, it is no problem this time (dapper used a lot of pixmaps)
[04:44] <nixternal> i don't think Kubuntu should follow the artwork for Ubuntu, as it will only cause Mark to pull it 2 weeks before release ;)
[04:45] <Viper550> I made Dapper Ubuntu's art pieces available on Dapper
[04:45] <kwwii> hehe
[04:45] <Viper550> I mean gnome-look
[04:45] <nixternal> oh no
[04:45] <Jucato> kwwii: that's great! that would give some Dapper guys a chance to enjoy your work :P
[04:45] <kwwii> Jucato: good point
[04:46] <Jucato> kwwii: too bad the window decorations (specially the buttons) won't be so easy to do in Dapper
[04:46] <Viper550> Okay, not the buttons, but we can make the overlay available
[04:47] <Jucato> yes. I extracted it from kubuntu-default-settings.deb :)
[04:47] <Viper550> I just love overlays on Crystal, best feature ever!
[04:47] <kwwii> Jucato: actually, it wouldn't be a problem to package it for dapper
[04:47] <Viper550> just make it a new version of kwin-decorations-crystal
[04:47] <kwwii> all of it should work, really
[04:47] <Jucato> kwwii: ooh. a separate deb perhaps? named differently? Crystal Edgy?
[04:47] <kwwii> exactly, although I would rename it
[04:47] <kwwii> exactly
[04:47] <Jucato> koolness
[04:47] <Viper550> or maybe, kubuntu-artwork-edgy
[04:48] <Viper550> and we could package it simliarly to how they did packages for the new Edgy themes
[04:48] <Jucato> btw, I'm having a hard time replicating the exact Edgy look on this customized system that doesn't have kubuntu-default-settings installed. Particularly with the colors
[04:48] <kwwii> if someone stepped up to package it, I'd be glad to help make sure they get the right art pieces, etc.
[04:49] <Jucato> I think there's something wrong with the kuseven color scheme... or I'm doing something totally wrong with the color scheme + crystal windeco combo. lol
[04:50] <Viper550> oh yeah, speaking of desktops, I redid mine for Halloween!
[04:50] <Jucato> hehe :)
[04:50] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/full_view.php?view=8369_halloween1.png
[04:50] <Jucato> Viper550: same one you posted in #kde?
[04:50] <Viper550> yeah...
[04:50] <Jucato> ok :)
[04:50] <Jucato> saves me time from clicking :)
[04:51] <Viper550> But still, I'm still a bit concerned about the lack of GTK theme on Kubuntu, it's been driving people away from Kubuntu when they go to use Firefox
[04:52] <Jucato> Viper550: gtk2-engines-gtk-qt is supposed to take care of that right?
[04:52] <nixternal> Viper550:  that was under control with 1.5, 2.0 changed everything..and why that would drive people away from Kubuntu would be beyond me
[04:52] <Viper550> not exactly...I find it to be a bit unreliable
[04:53] <Viper550> QtCurve is nice because all it's elements are not directly taken from the KDE theme, it just reads the settings from the KDE theme and applies it to itself
[04:53] <Viper550> One more thing: QtCurve can read the colors even when QtCurve is not selected as the KDE theme!
[04:54] <kwwii> Viper550: we use the QtGtk stuff in kde which does a pretty good job of using Qt widgets in gtk apps
[04:54] <Jucato> s/theme/style
[04:54] <Jucato> kwwii: QtGtk = gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
[04:55] <kwwii> erm, yeall
[04:55] <kwwii> yeahh
[04:55] <Jucato> ah ok. thought you were referring to something new :)
[04:56] <Viper550> some people have problems with it
[04:56] <kwwii> in the long run we should look into using a different theme, perhaps it would work better
[04:57] <nixternal> i just realised the trolls live under bridges
[04:57] <Viper550> But still, I think a glossy style would look good alongside all the other glossy stuff you've got for Edgy
[04:57] <Jucato> nothing beats QtCurve's shiny glass in glossiness :p
[04:57] <kwwii> it very well might
[04:58] <Viper550> yeah, looks excellent! In fact, it's theming X-Chat with the exact same style as my KDE apps right now!
[04:58] <Jucato> kwwii: that QtCurve scheme works perfectly with your windecos :)
[04:58] <Jucato> and your kicker side image :)
[04:58] <Viper550> But still, I think Polyester looks better as the KDE style, but we could have QtCurve with gloss alongside it to complete it
[04:58] <kwwii> Jucato: yeah, we talked about using it for edgy but it was too late to change
[04:59] <Jucato> aw... I totally forgot about polyster! :)
[04:59] <Viper550> yes, we all did!
[04:59] <kwwii> for feisty we should look into it
[04:59] <Jucato> kwwii: plese tell me you'll still be chief artist in feisty?
[04:59] <Viper550> And Polyester is a very popular theme
[04:59] <kwwii> Jucato: nope
[04:59] <Jucato> :(
[04:59] <kwwii> sabdfl wants to rotate the job
[04:59] <Jucato> you'll still be working with Kubuntu right?
[04:59] <kwwii> so I suggested a friend
[05:00] <Viper550> so, who be our winner?
[05:00] <kwwii> depending on how my work schedule ends up, yes, I will still work on kubuntu
[05:00] <kwwii> Viper550: well, I wouldn#
[05:00] <Jucato> yay! :)
[05:00] <kwwii> erm
[05:00] <kwwii> wouldn't want to say anything before it is official
[05:01] <kwwii> sooo...the basketball game is starting, /me is afk
[05:01] <Jucato> heheh bye! :)
[05:03] <nixternal> is there an easy way to get "held back" packages?
[05:04] <Tm_T> nixternal: You mean to set packages to hold or bypass hold?
[05:04] <nixternal> no, packages that are automatically held back
[05:04] <Tm_T> I see, dist-upgrade?
[05:05] <Jucato> nixternal: dist-upgrading to edgy?
[05:05] <nixternal> i have no clue what this guy is doing...as at time I wish the CoC could be violated just for people like him ;)
[05:05] <nixternal> and he is a neighbor
[05:05] <nixternal> hehe
[05:06] <Tm_T> ?
[05:06] <nixternal> all he said is that -> mplayer, python libs(lots), gkrellm, libgi2, hipjs <- are being held back
[05:07] <nixternal> wait..i bet it is a dist-upgrade to edgy, and he used autocrapix or notsoeasyubuntu
[05:07] <Tm_T> =)
[05:07] <Tm_T> Surprise! ;)
[05:08] <Jucato> lol
[05:08] <nixternal> yesterday, i was surprised, as we had our LoCo meeting
[05:08] <Tm_T> I believe good guides are far better than any of those "easy to use scripts".
[05:08] <nixternal> and 90% of the people there were automatix and/or easyubuntu fans
[05:08] <nixternal> i was like well, when your computers break, don't use ubuntu support for help
[05:08] <Jucato> except that some people prefer to do it the automatic/easy way... and end up fscking themselves...
[05:09] <Tm_T> nixternal: Wow, have a pic? I don't believe without some proof.
[05:09] <nixternal> have a pic of what?
[05:09] <Tm_T> Jucato: That's exactly what I mean, as far as people don't know good guides, they "rely" on some "easy solution".
[05:09] <Tm_T> nixternal: Of those fanboys.
[05:10] <Jucato> Tm_T: I was just confirming what you said. :)
[05:10] <Tm_T> Yup.
[05:10] <nixternal> they will be uploaded soon..hahahahah..you gave me a flickr idea....with the boxes and naming stuff..i will put "Automatix Fanboy" for a title
[05:10] <Tm_T> =)
[05:10] <Tm_T> nixternal: "don't be like this guy, learn to use apt"
[05:10] <nixternal> wow...he did a dist-upgrade from dapper to edgy, and never used automatix or easyubuntu
[05:11] <Tm_T> Hmm, there's prolly some metapackages that are only in dapper.
[05:11] <nixternal> i told them....you spend $50,000 on a new car, and you goto Walmart and buy plastic hubcaps for it..that is just like Installing Ubuntu and then using Automatix
[05:11] <Jucato> but anyway, even a totally fresh install of Dapper still caused some packages to be held back when dist-upgrading to Edgy
[05:11] <Tm_T> Those are helding things back
[06:55] <sredna> Does cmake require emacs to run ?!
[06:55] <sredna> I can't believe that
[06:59] <fdoving> i run cmake without emacs.
[07:01] <sredna> fdoving: So someone in ubuntu needs their head examined, since emacs appears to be a dependency :(
[07:01] <fdoving> emacs is recommended.
[07:01] <sredna> Ah, only with aptitude. I must get out of that habit!
[07:01] <fdoving> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1-12), libncurses5 (>= 5.4-5), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1-12)
[07:01] <fdoving> Recommends: emacs21 | xemacs21 | emacsen | emacsen-common
[07:01] <fdoving> :)
[07:02] <fdoving> does it install recommends by default? 
[07:02] <sredna> How would I know, it appears so
[07:02] <sredna> At least it wanted to install emacs
[07:02] <sredna> Reminds me that I need to get rid ov vim
[07:04] <fdoving> this new autoremove feature in apt-get is nice, but i think i'll have to make a patch that disables the constant whining about unneeded packages.
[07:05] <sredna> fdoving: Or an option to disable it?
[07:05] <fdoving> that's what i was thinking about.
[07:05] <sredna> Sometimes it is nice to be able to view that list
[07:05] <fdoving> sure is.
[07:06] <sredna> ...  which now became longer in my case, since removing vim-tiny also removed ubuntu-minimal
[07:06] <fdoving> you can remove packages from that list, with 'apt-mark unmarkauto <packages>'
[07:07] <sredna> Ah, that is a good idea.
[07:07] <sredna> It is possible that it would be smart to change how meta-packages works
[07:08] <sredna> It is also not possible to remove the packages installed by them in any easy way as it is
[07:08] <fdoving> that's what 'apt-get --autoremove metapackage' is trying to do.
[07:09] <sredna> Right
[07:09] <sredna> I have still some learning with apt-get
[07:12] <fdoving> what i want to disable, is apt-get telling me i have packages that were automatically installed,and can be removed, when i do other things. It should not tell me that, when i run 'apt-get install somepackage' - I want it to tell me this when i run 'apt-get autoremove' it's not like 'apt-get remove somepackage' tells me I have 23452345 packages that can be upgraded, and I should run 'apt-get upgrade' to install them.
[07:13] <sredna> That is absolutely right, that is just confusing
[07:14] <fdoving> .. i actually think telling you to update is a better feature, than telling you to remove.
[07:15] <fdoving> especially when this feature is new and can tell you to remove usefull packages.
[07:58] <mhb> I'm back (home)
[08:01] <sredna> Hm, my desktop tends to loose all icons
[08:02] <sredna> I have to kill and restart it
[08:28] <DaSkreech> My Edgy Cd won't boot up :(
[08:41] <fdoving> my hacked apt doesn't build because of some strange po/pot issue.
[08:42] <mhb> am I still in #devel ? :o) looks like #kubuntu
[08:43] <Tm_T> =)
[08:43] <Tm_T> Good sandwitches. <3
[08:44] <Viper550> I think that maybe we should try community themes on Kubuntu Feisty as well this time
[08:44] <fdoving> I think keeping old looks and add new ones would be cool.
[08:44] <DaSkreech>  It only had Dawn Of Ubuntu when I checked it out
[08:45] <fdoving> Like Feisty should have the Edgy themes. Feisty+1 should have Edgy, Feisty, and Feisty+1 themes.. etc.
[08:45] <Viper550> No, I mean have people in the community make a bunch of themes that are included in the distribution, like on Ubuntu
[08:45] <fdoving> that would be cool.
[08:46] <DaSkreech> even better if we get beryl installed by default :)
[08:46] <Viper550> DaSkreech: Fedora Core 6 is close...they have AIGLX and Compiz out of the box
[08:47] <DaSkreech> Yeah I know but they have a 6 month cycle as wel
[08:47] <DaSkreech> we have AIGLX but no compiz 
[08:47] <Viper550> yeah...but don't forget about disc space!
[08:48] <Viper550> But, I kinda like FC6's "3D Desktop" controls...looks simple...like something Ubuntu would use
[08:54] <apokryphos> ah, must try FC6 -- what are people's thoughts on it?
[08:55] <apokryphos> my last thoughts on Fedora were the very bad package support, not great kde support, and slightly muddled system settings, though some nice polish around the edges
[08:55] <apokryphos> I think that was fc3
[08:55] <DaSkreech> no yes yes
[08:56] <Viper550> FC5 is a bit better, they got Yum in FC4, slow APT ripoff...
[08:56] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: unless beryl is stabilised every day from now till release ;-), having it enabled by default is a very bad idea IMO
[08:56] <Viper550> apokryphos: It's not on by default, it's user configurable
[08:56] <apokryphos> Viper550: I'm talking about the beryl spec for feisty
[08:56] <DaSkreech> apokryphos: how about a one button install?
[08:57] <apokryphos> having it installed by default's not a bad thing, just having it enabled is, I think
[08:57] <Viper550> hmm...for the whole OS or just Beryl?
[08:57] <DaSkreech> Viper550: Not as bad as Yast
[08:57] <apokryphos> Viper550: sorry?
[08:57] <DaSkreech> apokryphos: judging by the sucktitude that ubuntu may become if it's not enabled I don't think it should be installed
[08:57] <Viper550> ???
[08:57] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: what? I always find yast comments confusing. In my mind it's, shall I say infinitely ;-), best system settings configurator in the Linux world
[08:58] <apokryphos> no other system has the length of easy and usable configurability like it
[08:58] <DaSkreech> Viper550: My lord Yast is slow. I opened it yesterday and it took nearly 20 minutes to accomplish adding two sources
[08:58] <apokryphos> Viper550: as in, what do you mean?
[08:58] <apokryphos> Yast really isn't slow at all
[08:58] <DaSkreech> apokryphos: It's slooooowwwwwww
[08:58] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: was that on 10.1?
[08:58] <DaSkreech> Yes
[08:58] <apokryphos> that's why then
[08:58] <apokryphos> huge bug, hardly how yast behaves normally
[08:58] <DaSkreech> Sllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[08:58] <apokryphos> it was a mistake to release, but they did release
[08:58] <apokryphos> much like ubuntu with edgy
[08:59] <DaSkreech> Then I should get my girl to jump to 10.2
[08:59] <DaSkreech> apokryphos: Ubuntu edgy isn't ready?
[08:59] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: s/slow/huge bug/. And it wasn't *yast*, it was libzypp
[08:59] <DaSkreech>  I know I keep hearing it but is it really that badly off?
[08:59] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: indeed, but that's the price of strict time-based schedules
[08:59] <DaSkreech> apokryphos: You'd think they would have a fix for it by now if htey know the package
[09:00] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: it's not a package, it's libzypp -- the new package management framework from SLED adopted into suse linux for 10.1
[09:00] <DaSkreech> ah libzypp just dounds like another cheesy Open source name :)
[09:00] <DaSkreech> apokryphos: so 10.2 is much better off?
[09:00] <apokryphos> oh, indeed
[09:00] <apokryphos> and 10.0 was really great too
[09:01] <apokryphos> http://en.opensuse.org/Zmd for info on libzypp
[09:01] <DaSkreech> I wonder if Mandriva is willing to step up to be Number 4
[09:01] <apokryphos> also, just as a note, yast is the whole system settings configuration tool, it's not just the GUI package management handler
[09:02] <apokryphos> kind of like saying, in a few words, Ubuntu is sloooow because there's one app on it that doesn't behave
[09:03] <DaSkreech> I know but I was redoing Samba with it as well and that was oretty slow as weell
[09:03] <apokryphos> one of the things I haven't tested; no Win users on our network :P
[09:05] <DaSkreech> :-)
[09:05] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: but yeah, 10.2 final should be out in a couple of weeks or so, I recommend trying that
[09:06] <DaSkreech> Really?
[09:06] <apokryphos> definitely
[09:06] <Viper550> I use Core 6
[09:06] <Viper550> I mean 5
[09:07] <apokryphos> Viper550: why not 6?
[09:07] <DaSkreech> Only in the open source world :)
[09:07] <Viper550> I downloaded 5 a few days after it was released
[09:07] <Viper550> To replace Ubuntu Breezy
[09:26] <DaSkreech> ha ha 
[09:27] <DaSkreech> Suse says that it's unknown if you can upgrade from stable to beta back to stable
[09:27] <Viper550> lol, cue the sped up Super Mario World ending!
[09:30] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: of course, just like all distributions
[09:30] <DaSkreech> I know we say that it's not a good idea but yeah you can do it
[09:30] <apokryphos> no distributions is going to support a development-version upgrade
[09:30] <apokryphos> exact same on suse
[09:31] <DaSkreech> They make it sound like it's technially improbable
[09:31] <apokryphos> nope, it's just to scare production-machine people off
[10:14] <DaSkreech> New Frozen Bubble :)
[10:59] <RichJ> imbrandon: ping?
[11:00] <imbrandon> pong
[11:00] <RichJ> hey, you have intel 64bit?
[11:00] <imbrandon> no , amd64
[11:01] <RichJ> im at a LUG event, we have an intel 64 board, and it dies with anything
[11:01] <RichJ> argh
[11:01] <RichJ> who has an inte64 you know of around here?
[11:01] <imbrandon> ( and there are 2 diffrent 64 intells
[11:01] <imbrandon> ia64 or em64t ?
[11:01] <RichJ> coreduo 2
[11:01] <RichJ> em64t
[11:01] <imbrandon> thats the same as amd64 
[11:02] <RichJ> well, we have an amd64 in the back that loaded ubuntu w/o an issue, very smooth
[11:02] <imbrandon> as far as working, and kamoin has one iirc, not really sure whom else has a core 2 duo
[11:02] <RichJ> this one here, we got it to install and boot with noacpi, but devices are unk
[11:02] <RichJ> kamion is europe or us?
[11:02] <imbrandon> noapic and nolapic ?
[11:02] <imbrandon> eu
[11:02] <RichJ> nolapic?
[11:03] <imbrandon> did you try those options ?
[11:03] <RichJ> no we didn't
[11:03] <RichJ> they did noacpi
[11:03] <imbrandon> acpi=off pci=noacpi noapic nolapic
[11:03] <imbrandon> ^^ do that
[11:03] <imbrandon> other than that i would need to know the chipset on the MB
[11:04] <RichJ> do that entire line?
[11:04] <imbrandon> yes
[11:04] <RichJ> 965
[11:04] <RichJ> chipset
[11:05] <imbrandon> 965's look to have great support, you probably need to prod the kernel team 
[11:06] <imbrandon> with exact info
[11:06] <imbrandon> and errors etc
[11:06] <RichJ> roger that
[11:06] <RichJ> we will try to add that line to menu.lst and reboot it
[11:06] <imbrandon> kk
[11:12] <imbrandon> RichJ, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core_2_Duo_Support
[11:12] <imbrandon> quote ; " The trick to it is then to avoid the PATA CDROM for installation (though the BIOS can boot off it). Utilising USB, you can do the following:"
[11:13] <imbrandon> blah blah blah , i'll let you get to it . RichJ ^^
[11:19] <RichJ> thanks imbrandon, we will research this info
[12:11] <mhb> Riddell: have you looked at the https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-grubconfig spec yet?