[06:28] <Trae> troy_s, sorry...
[06:29] <Trae> troy_s, I'm about to head to bed.
[06:29] <Trae> sup bud?
[06:50] <tomveens> hello
[10:39] <Snake> Can anyone help me interprete the GPL and its useage with icons?
[10:40] <kwwii> Snake: sure, what do you need to know?
[10:40] <Snake> am I clear to use GPLed icons on "for-profit" websites, also, if I were to use them on my site, how can I do it legally
[10:40] <Snake> what would I need to make avalible
[10:42] <kwwii> Snake: the thing is this: there is a big problem with releasing pixmaps per gpl, as it is unclear what the "source" is
[10:42] <Snake> Yea thats what I dont follow about it
[10:42] <Snake> kwwii, I just want to use a few icons on kde-look that are released under GPL, but I don't want to break the law doing it
[10:44] <kwwii> Snake: until now, we have dealt with this situation by saying "yes, you can use the icons, but you should include some pointer to where you got them from, be it the author, the website, etc.
[10:44] <msikma> It doesn't matter whether it's for profit, as long as "the source" is available. The FSF sells its software too.
[10:44] <kwwii> striclty speaking, you can simply use them
[10:44] <kwwii> msikma: yeah, but what is source in a pixmap?
[10:45] <Snake> Thats what I mean, how would I allow the source
[10:45] <kwwii> crystal, for instance has practically no svgs
[10:45] <Snake> I dont think the svg is really the source
[10:45] <msikma> I believe that a lossless original version of the icon would then be in order.
[10:45] <kwwii> Snake: well, if there is no svg's then either the icons cannot really be licensed under the gpl, or the pixmap is the source
[10:45] <Snake> hmm
[10:45] <msikma> E.g. if you implement the icon in some way, such as in a layout, you'd need to make a transparent 32-bit PNG available as well, as that's closest to a "source" as possible.
[10:46] <kwwii> msikma: well, you really only need to point the person to the source
[10:46] <msikma> You're right
[10:46] <Snake> msikma, their just small icons next to text, all people need to do is save image as... and thats about as much source as I had
[10:46] <Snake> Ill link back to whatever I can though
[10:46] <msikma> Well, then there's nothing to worry about, I guess
[10:46] <kwwii> Snake: I am sure that that will be good enough
[10:47] <kwwii> Snake: which icons are you using?
[10:47] <kwwii> perhaps I know the author
[10:47] <kwwii> I have dealt with this situation with quite a few different icon theme authors :p
[10:47] <kwwii> some flip out, most don't
[10:49] <Snake> kwwii, The crystal icons
[10:51] <kwwii> Snake: cool, you do not have to worry then, I have dealt with several lawyers concerning this...there is no problem...although they really appreciate it if you post a link to the "source"
[10:51] <Snake> ok :)
[10:51] <kwwii> Snake: the crystal icons were developed under contract to several diffferent companies (one of them my previous employer)
[10:52] <Snake> Wasnt it for linspire?
[10:52] <kwwii> so no worries
[10:52] <Snake> iirc?
[10:52] <kwwii> well, yes, the did pay as well...but I worked for suse (I was everaldo's boss)
[10:52] <kwwii> and I actually made quite a few of them myself
[10:52] <Snake> ah i see
[10:53] <Snake> intresting
[10:54] <Snake> kwwii, Could I have your name please? (I'm just trying to assume my legal status here to my investors without having to hire a lawyer)
[10:54] <Snake> assure**
[10:54] <Snake> not assume*
[10:54] <kwwii> once oxygen is out, you might want to use that instead :-)
[10:54] <Snake> :-)
[10:54] <kwwii> Snake: Kenneth Wimer
[10:54] <Snake> Oh yea Ill definatly look into that, it looks like a beautiful icon set
[10:55] <Snake> kwwii, Thanks a ton :-)
[10:55] <kwwii> Snake: just remeber to include a link to the "source", ok?
[10:55] <kwwii> that is important
[10:55] <Snake> im assuming the source would be everaldo's site?
[10:55] <Snake> or what?
[10:55] <kwwii> Snake: it could simply be a link to the kde sources
[10:56] <kwwii> or a link to the source on kde-look
[10:56] <kwwii> but you need to make sure that the link does not "go bad"
[10:56] <Snake> oh ok
[10:56] <Snake> ya thats what I was worried about
[10:56] <kwwii> in the end, it is totally unclear if you can even license pixmaps as gpl
[10:57] <kwwii> but as long as they come licensed that way, and you point to some archive where the originals could be found
[10:57] <kwwii> I mean, if you use the oribinal icons without changing them in any way, then the ones you include are "source"
[10:57] <kwwii> s/oribinal/original
[10:58] <Snake> okay great
[10:58] <kwwii> to be honest, lots of sites have been using them for a long time and nothing has ever happened, even if they did not link to any source
[10:58] <kwwii> but I suggest doing so in some way, if possible to avoid any possible problems
[10:59] <kwwii> :p
[10:59] <Snake> hehehe
[10:59] <Snake> kwwii, I just wanted to verify so I have a somewhat stable case to present
[10:59] <Snake> Too easy to simply say your someone else you know?
[10:59] <kwwii> yeah, it should not be a big problem
[10:59] <kwwii> hehe
[11:00] <kwwii> unfortunately, lot's of people know me
[11:00] <kwwii> as I am kde art maintainer
[11:01] <Snake> ah intresting
[11:04] <Snake> kwwii, I am so glad I found you, no one else could give me a 100% sure answer
[11:05] <kwwii> Snake: glad I could be of help
[11:05] <Snake> I'll see you aroun
[11:05] <Snake> d
[11:05] <Snake> keep up the good work :-)
[11:05] <kwwii> thanks :-)
[11:05] <Snake> thanks again
[11:05] <Snake> ooo wait
[11:05] <Snake> kwwii, Is there a timeframe on when oxygen will be out??
[11:05] <Snake> I cant wait, the previews are awesome
[11:06] <kwwii> Snake: there will be a release within a month or so
[11:07] <kwwii> we do have them in svn now, but with no license, so nobody can really use them
[11:07] <kwwii> in an official way
[11:07] <kwwii> soon that will change and they will all be gpl
[11:07] <kwwii> and we *do* have svgs
[11:07] <kwwii> :-)
[11:07] <Snake> Hmmm so again
[11:07] <Snake> How does one GPL a icon
[11:07] <Snake> :-P
[11:07] <Snake> Someone should really look into that
[11:07] <kwwii> well, the svg is the source
[11:07] <kwwii> and the pixmap is the binary
[11:08] <Snake> perhaps write a GPL compatible license for pixmaps and whatnot
[11:08] <Snake> ah yea thats true enough
[11:08] <kwwii> one thing....
[11:08] <Snake> ?
[11:08] <kwwii> you should note that the new crystal icons are released from linspire under a funky license
[11:08] <kwwii> not sure if they changed that
[11:09] <Snake> hmm
[11:09] <kwwii> we had several lawyers send the emails asking them to change it
[11:09] <kwwii> becuase many of the icons are from the original crystal set
[11:09] <Snake> kwwii, how could I get into the svn for this? Id like to browse them, just to check them out
[11:09] <kwwii> Snake: with a web browser, one second, I'll find the link
[11:11] <kwwii> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/theme/
[11:11] <Snake> Thanks :-)
[11:11] <kwwii> no problem
[11:12] <Snake> Now would I be allowed to use these on my personal PC or no?
[11:12] <kwwii> yes, you can use them on your pc
[11:13] <Snake> ooo neat
[11:13] <kwwii> in fact, there is a script that will build a theme in my directory (one level up from that link)
[11:13] <Snake> KDE Art devs have mad skills
[11:13] <kwwii> you need inkscape and imagemagick
[11:14] <Snake> na thats alright, i'm not in linux at the moment, but my rocketdock really needs a make over
[11:14] <kwwii> heheh
[11:14] <kwwii> :-)
[11:14] <Snake> KDE4 needs to hurry up as well, but I fear when its released it will break beryl :-(
[11:14] <kwwii> I hope you enjoy them :-)
[11:14] <Snake> I will for sure :-)
[11:14] <kwwii> I cannot wait for kde4
[11:15] <kwwii> I wish it would finally come in line
[11:15] <Snake> hehehe
[11:15] <Snake> Have they made any major visual changes yet? last I herd they were getting everything to qt4
[11:16] <kwwii> actually, yes, we have started a few very interesting new file interaction ideas
[11:17] <Snake> awesine
[11:17] <Snake> awesome*
[11:18] <Snake> Right now i've been using gnome, mainly because compiz had better support for it at the time, and just havn't changed back, when KDE4 comes about, I definatly got to give it another look.
[11:18] <Snake> I like KDE it self, but, atleast to me, it seems many of the apps that go along with it have a lot of bugs
[11:18] <Snake> Thought I guess i'd expect it with the number of options they offer
[11:19] <kwwii> Snake: the neat thing about kde4 is that because of qt4, we have amazing abilities within programs that will make a big difference in user experience even without compiz
[11:19] <kwwii> although the compiz stuff is pretty amazing
[11:19] <Snake> I hear beryl has better KDE support than compiz did/does
[11:19] <Snake> but I havn't the time to check into it
[11:21] <kwwii> yeah, it does
[11:21] <kwwii> but who knows what will prove to be the "best" solution in the long run
[11:22] <Snake> I do! I do!
[11:22] <Snake> Project Looking glass!
[11:22] <Snake> :-)
[11:23] <kwwii> lol
[11:23] <Snake> I'll never understand what opted them to build a window manager on java technology
[11:24] <kwwii> yeah, no doubt
[11:24] <kwwii> I think it was more about publicity
[11:25] <Snake> Perhaps
[11:25] <kwwii> the linux that sun used was suse...I did a lot of art stuff for sun while I worked at suse
[11:28] <kwwii> I am not sure if sun knows their ass from a hole in the wall
[11:28] <kwwii> although they did open source open firmware
[11:31] <kwwii> anyway....time for a movie
[11:32] <Snake> alright hehe
[11:32] <Snake> Have fun
[11:32] <Snake> thanks again man, cya