[12:13] <Mirv> hmm
[12:15] <profoX`> How is upstart linked to teardown? is teardown integrated in upstart now?
[12:17] <mrmojo> is there plans for a GUI bug reporter in feisty?
[12:18] <mrmojo> something like goto system --> report bug or similar, it would come up with a little program which woudl allow you to take a screenshot, add a few details and quickly publish a bug
[12:37] <imbrandon> wouldent work out well as you need to search for already reported bugs similar to yours ( but most dont think about that it seems by some of the dupes )
[12:44] <profoX`> imbrandon: the way kde bugreports work is that it automatically searches for possible related bugs after you type in a title and some keywords of your bug before actually writing the bugreport
[12:46] <profoX`> imbrandon: a gui program could also show that by using a wizard, first enter a title and some keywords, and then show possible matches.. click on a match to open the bug report in your browser.. and have a button to cancel the bugreport or to continue writing it..
[12:48] <AngryElf> what's the logic in not having specific branches of the kernel anymore? i.e. now there is just 'generic'
[12:48] <mdke__> you'll find a long thread about it on the -devel mailing list
[01:08] <imbrandon> profoX`: true, if it was done right :)
[01:09] <profoX`> imbrandon: yes, but when's the last time we did something wrong ^^
[01:09] <profoX`> j/k
[01:09] <imbrandon> :)
[01:27] <jdong> cjwatson: what are your feelings as to -backports building against -updates?
[01:27] <jdong> cjwatson: for cases like bug 63452
[01:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63452 in Baltix "Please backport brasero CD burning tool from Ubuntu Edgy" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63452
[01:41] <sid> elkbuntu: Do you have the results for the last Ubuntu poll?
[02:32] <sladen> what's the build tool that splits off the .po files for the language packs
[02:41] <Evaso2> hi guys anybody developing launchpad is here?
[02:42] <sladen> Evaso2: #launchpad
[02:42] <Evaso2> sladen: thanks
[02:47] <Nafallo> sladen: package-strip-translations? :-)
[02:48] <Nafallo> pkgstriptranslations even
[02:53] <sladen> nafallo: ta
[02:32] <rmjb> Hello cjwatson, I'd like to get some advice on putting through an SRU for a broken universe package
[02:33] <Burgundavia> rmjb: which package?
[02:33] <rmjb> dmrid
[02:33] <rmjb> dmraid
[02:34] <Burgundavia> rmjb: file a bug with your patch attachedc
[02:34] <rmjb> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/68294
[02:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68294 in dmraid "[SRU]  Freeze Exception Request for dmraid" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  
[02:34] <rmjb> and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/54246
[02:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,In progress]  
[02:34] <rmjb> the last one had the deb and source packages
[02:35] <rmjb> s/had/has/
[02:35] <Burgundavia> ah
[02:38] <Burgundavia> rmjb: is dmraid completely broken? that is not clear from the bug report
[02:39] <rmjb> I'm not sure, I've seen two people in the forum thread say it works for them on edgy, but lots more say it doesn't
[02:39] <rmjb> upgrading usually works
[02:39] <Burgundavia> ok, in order for that SRU to pass, you need more than that
[02:40] <Burgundavia> detail those forum reports
[02:40] <rmjb> do universe SRUs follow this same process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[02:40] <rmjb> ?
[02:40] <Burgundavia> yes
[02:40] <Burgundavia> afaik
[02:41] <Burgundavia> the rules are a little lighter because it is universe
[02:41] <rmjb> I'll need to file a new bug or the UVFe one is enough?
[02:41] <rmjb> once I get more info I can just reassign it to... mdz?
[02:42] <Burgundavia> the latter, no idea
[02:42] <Burgundavia> the one you have it probably good enough
[02:42] <Burgundavia> just change the title
[02:42] <Burgundavia> oh wait, you have already done that
[02:42] <rmjb> it's that next step that has me confused
[02:42] <Burgundavia> which one?
[02:42] <rmjb> dholbach did
[02:42] <Burgundavia> the actual SRU?
[02:42] <rmjb> what to do now... has be confused
[02:42] <rmjb> yeah
[02:43] <Burgundavia> you at the SRU page?
[02:43] <rmjb> yep
[02:43] <Burgundavia> in the propose stage
[02:43] <Burgundavia> you have a bug number
[02:43] <Burgundavia> you need a better statement about impact
[02:43] <Burgundavia> ie: edgy's dmraid doesn't work
[02:43] <Burgundavia> period
[02:44] <Burgundavia> here are the people that have tried it
[02:47] <Burgundavia> rmjb: here is what I would also do
[02:47] <Burgundavia> rmjb: get the latest dmraid into feisty
[02:47] <Burgundavia> asap
[02:47] <rmjb> feisty is out??
[02:47] <Burgundavia> archives are open
[02:47] <Burgundavia> no idea about general uploading
[02:48] <rmjb> need to talk to an motu to get it in there then
[02:48] <Burgundavia> but back to the SRU
[02:49] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: toolchain is still building.  general uploads next week or so, was the guess
[02:49] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: ah
[02:50] <Burgundavia> rmjb: anyway, you have about 50% of what you need for the propose phase
[02:50] <Burgundavia> of course, IANAUD
[02:50] <rmjb> I'm going to link to the thread that has the users' reports: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=266807
[02:58] <rmjb_> dmraid was broken for 8 users in the thread
[03:08] <rmjb_> Burgundavia: I've updated the SRU bug, should I assign it to an SRU team?
[03:08] <Burgundavia> rmjb_: no idea
[03:09] <rmjb_> yeah... me neither... the report looks better now?
[03:09] <rmjb_> #68294
[03:23] <Fujitsu> rmjb: motu-uvf is the team for SRUS.
[03:23] <Fujitsu> *SRUs
[03:24] <rmjb> so it's at the right assignee then... cool
[03:25] <Flk> mjg59: heard ur had a night of drunken debuachery yesterday lol :P
[03:37] <jdub> having switched on WPA on my AP, i now understand why people like/want pam-keyring
[05:04] <rmjb> hello I'm looking for advice on packaging a java app
[05:04] <rmjb> I have the dependency to java-gcj-compat-dev right now, is that right?
[05:04] <rmjb> or can it be replaced with something "slimmer"?
[05:16] <Burgundavia> rmjb: you need to talk to doko
[05:23] <rmjb> thanks Burgundavia
[05:23] <Burgundavia> no worries
[12:01] <ukubuntu> If feisty is to be more about integrating multimedia, is it going to include codecs etc? I notice that Freespire, a derivative of lispire has these in its core install, but I do not know how they got around the legal aspect of codecs in non-proprietary software
[12:02] <Hobbsee> include codecs?  no.  maybe download them from somewhere
[12:02] <bhale> the only way to distribute most codecs legally is to obtain a paid license
[12:02] <mdke> ukubuntu: the idea is to make them easier to install
[12:02] <apokryphos> like ximian team did with helix
[12:03] <mdke> semi-automatically
[12:03] <ukubuntu> Ok, I know I use easybuntu to help at the moment, 
[12:03] <mdke> hopefully even easier than that
[12:03] <bhale> fluendo, the company behind gstreamer, is working on license-able plugins for gstreamer
[12:03] <bhale> for a small fee
[12:03] <ukubuntu> kewl :)
[12:04] <bhale> they are giving away an mp3 decoder
[12:04] <ukubuntu> I see. 
[12:04] <ukubuntu> Obviously the ultimate is to make it real easy for the non-tech user if possible
[12:06] <ukubuntu> And just a quick thanks to all involved in Ubuntu, it continues to astound me :)
[12:06] <bhale> rock on
[12:06] <ukubuntu> I am sure you have heard it before, but it does not hurt to reiterate :D
[12:21] <Czubek> when is planned to unfreeze feisty?
[12:27] <Hobbsee> Czubek: a week after the last person asked
[12:28] <Czubek> Hobbsee: 5 XI?
[01:05] <fabbione> Czubek: when the toolchain is ready
[01:06] <Czubek> fabbione: What?
[01:09] <Czubek> fabbione: You mean something like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyToolchainRoadmap?highlight=%28toolchain%29
[01:10] <fabbione> Czubek: i mean new kernel, new glibc, new binutils, new gcc
[01:10] <fabbione> and a test rebuild of the archive before we open the gates
[01:11] <Czubek> Yes, so it's written on wiki, thanks.
[01:22] <Czubek> Is, there any wiki for this specification: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/network-roaming ? Or should I create one from template?
[03:08] <mark> what's the best way to preseed/skip all the "detect keyboard layout" bits in Edgy?
[03:10] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:47] <shackan> uh oh, it.archive.ubuntu.com seems down
[03:52] <mark> and kr.* is not very stable...
[04:15] <highvoltage> hi. I can't find the ubuntu manifesto on the website. does it still exist?
[04:43] <gnomefreak> is it safe to remove libc6 to install the right version as long as you dont reboot?
[04:45] <yacoob> gnomefreak, I think it would be, as long as you do it in one go. Any new process created in between will fail.
[04:46] <yacoob> And because dpkg launches scripts... the answer is no I think :)
[04:46] <gnomefreak> ok ty
[04:47] <Amaranth> gnomefreak: yeah, you don't want to remove libc6 :P
[04:47] <Amaranth> i wonder how dpkg manages to upgrade it
[04:47] <tfheen> it unpacks it with .dpkg-new appended to the name, then renames it afterwards.
[04:48] <Amaranth> ah
[04:48] <Amaranth> i figured it was something like that
[05:37] <cjwatson> mark: preseed console-setup/layoutcode to the layout name (X-style), and if you want a keyboard variant, preseed console-setup/variantname too
[05:38] <cjwatson> mark: sorry, make that console-setup/variantcode
[05:38] <madduck> after dapper, you guys snapshotted sid; when did this happen, and under what conditions did you import new versions from sid to fix problems, and until when?
[05:40] <cjwatson> madduck: after every release, we merge everything from Debian; this process is continuous until upstream version freeze
[05:40] <cjwatson> (see EdgyReleaseSchedule in this specific case)
[05:41] <cjwatson> madduck: after UVF, we take new versions as it seems appropriate. Shortly after UVF, it's generally quite lenient, getting stricter as we approach release
[05:41] <cjwatson> the release team apply common sense
[05:42] <yacoob> hm
[05:42] <yacoob> linux lacks something like growl for mac osx
[05:43] <tfheen> yacoob: what is growl?
[05:43] <yacoob> tfheen, pop-up system. One demon to display them, any application can register and throw message to be displayed
[05:43] <yacoob> various styles, fully configurable
[05:44] <yacoob> it gained critical mass, so most of the apps already come with growl support
[05:44] <tfheen> yacoob: like, the notification daemon?
[05:44] <yacoob> something like that I think.
[05:44] <tfheen> which lives in.. the notification-daemon package. :-P
[05:44] <shackan> notification-daemon is already there..
[05:44] <Arador> it's something done by apple, or a third-party app?
[05:45] <yacoob> Arador, third party
[05:45] <yacoob> shackan, the thing is, not enough support. Still :)
[05:45] <tfheen> I have plenty enough of notifications, thankyouverymuch.
[05:50] <Amaranth> indeed, i get too many as it is :P
[06:25] <MrKeuner> hi, what else do I need other than build-essential in order to create deb packages?
[06:25] <cjwatson> the build-dependencies of the package in question
[06:25] <MrKeuner> dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory
[06:25] <MrKeuner> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is
[06:25] <MrKeuner> why do I get these?
[06:25] <cjwatson> once you have build-essential installed, you can run 'dpkg-checkbuilddeps' in an unpacked source package to see what's missing, or use 'apt-get build-dep <package>'
[06:26] <cjwatson> MrKeuner: because you haven't cd'ed to the right directory
[06:26] <cjwatson> assuming you just unpacked a source package and are trying to build it
[06:26] <cjwatson> if you're trying to create your own package, then you need to read more :-)
[06:27] <MrKeuner> I am trying to compile amyedit, unpacking it and entering the directory with configure script etc. and then running dh_make && dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[06:27] <jdong> cjwatson: would you object to Backports compiling against -updates in addition to -backports?
[06:28] <cjwatson> MrKeuner: then you need to read more documentation about creating packages
[06:28] <cjwatson> dh_make is not intended to be used without manually checking its output
[06:28] <cjwatson> it's not entirely automagic
[06:28] <cjwatson> jdong: I don't think so, no
[06:28] <jdong> cjwatson: where should I go to further advance this proposal?
[06:29] <cjwatson> jdong: talk to infinity
[06:29] <jdong> ok
[06:30] <MrKeuner> hmm, dh_make output says that: Could not find amyedit_1.0.orig.tar.gz can that be due to missing packages to be installed?
[06:30] <MrKeuner> Or OK could you direct me to a good resource for self compilers
[06:41] <simira> cjwatson: the people wants photos of your labraweiler!
[06:42] <Treenaks> s/the people/simira/
[06:42] <Treenaks> :P
[06:43] <imbrandon> !package guide
[06:43] <mc44> hmm would it be a good idea to tell people "no, bad user" if they try and apt-get dist-upgrade
[06:43] <imbrandon> hum dosent work in here, MrKeuner "/msg ubotu package guide" for the url
[06:53] <madduck> cjwatson: why did you guys then stay with mdadm 2.4.1-6 or edgy, and not follow the 2.5 chain? because of the one-month-in-experimental period?
[06:54] <madduck> i think my work of the last 4 months fixes many of your raid problems with edgy...
[06:54] <madduck> anyway, i better call it a night.
[07:01] <jordi> does anyone know of cases of ubuntu not going back one hour last night?
[07:03] <Treenaks> no
[07:03] <Treenaks> maybe if people set the wrong time zone..
[08:10] <ajmitch> morning all
[08:29] <aragorn_elessar> hi at all!
[08:31] <aragorn_elessar> it's normal that the "disks" entry is absent in the System-->Administration menu of edgy ?
[08:46] <Seveas> aragorn_elessar, this channel is not for support
[08:46] <Seveas> try #ubuntu
[09:39] <cjwatson_> simira: once I find the camera :-)
[09:40] <cjwatson_> madduck: we'll take it in feisty. Mostly, we eyeballed it post-UVF and it just seemed to have too high a volume of changes that we didn't have the in-house expertise to review accurately and which might well have required consequent changes elsewhere
[09:50] <amnezia> having found some issues while upgrading to edgy, should I file bugs against something or should I talk to someone first about those?
[09:52] <tepsipakki> amnezia: look for duplicates first
[09:56] <elmo> ugh - we ended up releasing with an ndiswrapper-utils in edgy that's << dapper?
[09:58] <cjwatson> elmo: I couldn't see any way to fix it
[09:59] <cjwatson> given the Depends generated by the module source in dapper
[10:01] <tfheen> cjwatson: we could have transitioned the -utils package to be generated by ndiswrapper-utils1.8?
[10:01] <cjwatson> tfheen: AIUI the module source package in dapper produced binaries that had a tight << Depends on ndiswrapper-utils which shafted us
[10:02] <tfheen> gnr, og
[10:02] <tfheen> ok, even
[10:02] <cjwatson> I don't remember all the details now (they were really slippery) but I looked at it at the time and couldn't see anything remotely sane to do :(
[10:02] <tfheen> ok
[10:02] <cjwatson> aside from "document and pray we never run into this again"
[10:02] <tfheen> can we do anything remotely sane for feisty?
[10:03] <cjwatson> it shouldn't be a problem for feisty any more?
[10:03] <cjwatson> well, apart from the lingering future problem of dapper->next-LTS upgrades, but I was hoping we could just teach the dist-upgrader to do the downgrade if necessary
[10:03] <tfheen> yeah, that's doable
[10:03] <cjwatson> ndiswrapper-utils is supposed to be transitional now and will eventually go away, I'm told
[10:03] <tfheen> (we do it for some compiz bits, at least)
[10:04] <cjwatson> that's for the benefit of unofficial repositories, but yeah
[10:08] <elmo> should I file a bug about it so we don't forget?
[10:08] <tfheen> elmo: yes, please.  And milestone it "later" so we don't end up forgetting
[10:08] <cjwatson> elmo: for what, the dist-upgrader?
[10:08] <elmo> cjwatson: yeah
[10:09] <cjwatson> IIRC it's already in mvo's branch (he tried to upload it before freeze but there were too many other changes and it got refused), but sure
[10:09] <cjwatson> IIRC is not necessarily reliable of course
[10:09] <elmo> err, heh
[10:09] <elmo> bug 45550
[10:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45550 in ndiswrapper "Broken dependency of kernel module" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45550
[10:10] <cjwatson> yow
[10:10] <cjwatson> heh, so nobody could've been using those modules anyway
[10:10] <cjwatson> whoops
[10:11] <cjwatson> 33 "later" bugs - eek
[10:12] <tfheen> cjwatson: that's not too bad, really.
[10:14] <elmo> reported as bug 69158 in any event
[10:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69158 in ndiswrapper "ndiswrapper-utils downgraded from dapper" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69158
[10:14] <elmo> (hmm, I wish there was a way to hyperlink bugs in malone..)
[10:15] <tfheen> I think it linkifies "bug #1234"
[10:15] <Ubugtu> Bug 1234 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 is private
[10:15] <tfheen> heh
[10:16] <elmo> haha, that's a great bug too
[10:38] <kingos>  hello, is there a plan to release a new version of binutils for edgy? I am a c++ developer, and there is an important bug in binutils (3111) that makes edgy almost unuseable for development ...
[10:40] <tfheen> kingos: uh, which bug is that?
[10:40] <tfheen> bug 3111 is about something else entirely
[10:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3111 in launchpad-buildd "Use gzip python library instead of sys call for compressing buildlogs" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3111
[10:42] <Chipzz> kingos: weird that the buildd's don't have much trouble building c++ packages then?
[10:43] <kingos> tfheen: binutils 3111
[10:43] <kingos> Chipzz: only if linking with -g
[10:43] <kingos> Chipzz: ie. development!
[10:43] <Chipzz> kingos: that's what the buildd's do, yes
[10:44] <kingos> http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-binutils@gnu.org/msg02052.html
[10:45] <kingos> I am seeing that bug and it is super annoying ... linking took 5 seconds on dapper, 3-4 minutes on edgy
[10:45] <tfheen> "ld being slow" isn't something we'd issue an update for, no.
[10:45] <kingos> argh
[10:45] <kingos> so what are my options?
[10:45] <tfheen> use the dapper binutils?
[10:46] <Chipzz> being patient? :P
[10:47] <kingos> tfheen: can I force install an old binutils or something? won't that break everything?
[10:47] <tfheen> kingos: why would that break anything?  Just downgrade.
[10:50] <kingos> tfheen: thanks
[11:55] <madduck> cjwatson: fair enough. i'll look at mdadm with fabbione for feisty. I agree that 2.5 had too many changes, I spent a shitload of time on it. :)