| === tuxub [n=maufeiti@87-196-24-71.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-directory | ||
| robertj | .. | 12:17 |
|---|---|---|
| lophyte | who declined it? | 12:35 |
| === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-directory | ||
| nkassi | Hey y'all | 01:07 |
| lophyte | hiya | 01:07 |
| nkassi | I reposting a question from ubuntu-server cause the channel seems dead | 01:07 |
| nkassi | I can't find the answer to why the slapd package in ubuntu and debian doesn't include SSL. Anyone knows ? | 01:08 |
| wasabi | It should. | 01:08 |
| wasabi | You of course have to enable and configure it with a certificate. | 01:08 |
| nkassi | It's not enabled by default | 01:08 |
| wasabi | Of course not. Ubuntu doesn't distribute a cert for you. | 01:08 |
| nkassi | From what I gather, it's not enable in the build | 01:08 |
| wasabi | It is. | 01:09 |
| wasabi | checking though. | 01:09 |
| nkassi | hum, weird, after setting the TLS* config params and all and starting the ldap server, 636 is unused. | 01:09 |
| wasabi | TLS != SSL. | 01:09 |
| nkassi | port 636 I mean | 01:09 |
| nkassi | Oh yeah sorry. | 01:09 |
| wasabi | TLS is Transport Layer Security. | 01:10 |
| wasabi | ie a socket is transformed to SSL on the fly. | 01:10 |
| nkassi | Isn't TLS the SSL replacement ? | 01:10 |
| wasabi | After an unsecured hand shake. | 01:10 |
| nkassi | oh ok. | 01:10 |
| wasabi | Yes, but it doesn't require a new port. | 01:10 |
| nkassi | Me stupid. | 01:10 |
| nkassi | ;-) | 01:10 |
| wasabi | The handshake happens in plain text, over the normal port. | 01:10 |
| nkassi | thanks for the info. | 01:11 |
| wasabi | I'm going to guess since libssl-dev is a build-dep, that it's enabled. | 01:11 |
| wasabi | And also, that I use it. | 01:11 |
| nkassi | hehe | 01:12 |
| nkassi | that would be a give away ;-) | 01:12 |
| nkassi | I was wondering because I saw a lot of issues documents about enabling this in debian | 01:12 |
| wasabi | Well, plain ol' SSL isn't really needed or desired anymore. | 01:13 |
| wasabi | And TLS requires you creating a cert. | 01:13 |
| wasabi | So it's not really something that can work out of the box. | 01:13 |
| nkassi | That makes sens. | 01:13 |
| wasabi | And I'm all for using Kerberos anyways. | 01:14 |
| nkassi | How hard would it be to create one automagically when the openldap server is installed ? | 01:14 |
| wasabi | Which provides transport encryption on it's own. | 01:14 |
| nkassi | I guess that would be another option. | 01:14 |
| wasabi | nkassi: Could create a self signed one, but that is completely unoptimal. | 01:14 |
| wasabi | I'd rather have the creation of a proper CA be part of our LDAP server plans. | 01:14 |
| nkassi | Except I would like to use it to allow thunderbird to look up contacts | 01:14 |
| nkassi | sound decent. | 01:15 |
| nkassi | sounds decent. I mean | 01:15 |
| wasabi | All of this is pretty far off imo | 01:15 |
| wasabi | Unless mark gets a hankering and pays for it | 01:15 |
| nkassi | Well that was something I was hoping to work on. ;-) I'm tired of hearing my friends complain about how AD is so much easier ;0) | 01:17 |
| nkassi | I was really happy when I saw the ubuntu movement towards this. | 01:19 |
| wasabi | We need C coders. =) | 01:19 |
| nkassi | Hehe, I thought the project would mostly be in python seeing the Ubuntu commitment to python. | 01:20 |
| === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-directory | ||
| wasabi | The project consists of pam/nss modules and stuff. =) | 01:22 |
| nkassi | Dusting off my C programming language book right now :0) | 01:22 |
| wasabi | All the really big stuff imo, from the client side, is fixing up the pam/nss infrastructure. | 01:22 |
| wasabi | and nscd | 01:22 |
| wasabi | and then, yeah, a nice python wizard to configure it all. | 01:22 |
| wasabi | But still, all the heavy actual work is in C. | 01:22 |
| sbalneav | What needs to be done in C? | 01:23 |
| nkassi | Yeah is there going to be a sort of todo list somewhere ? | 01:23 |
| wasabi | I'm working on a plan. | 01:23 |
| wasabi | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication/Client. | 01:23 |
| wasabi | Client comes first, unless somebody else starts working on the server independently. | 01:23 |
| sbalneav | Hmm, not subscribed to that one, which is odd, seeing as how I need this spec implemented for the LTSP side of things. | 01:25 |
| nkassi | Was there any discussion about adapting the already existing tools on fedora ? | 01:25 |
| sbalneav | I may be of use here, as I was the fellow who originally added openldap support for shadow components into pam_ldap :) | 01:25 |
| wasabi | There was, but we don't really like their tools I don't think. | 01:27 |
| wasabi | And have some good ideas of our own. | 01:27 |
| wasabi | And ajmitch already has a codebase that works. | 01:27 |
| wasabi | sbalneav: Sounds super insecure. ;) | 01:28 |
| wasabi | Check out that wiki page then, change what you think. | 01:28 |
| wasabi | I'm going to add a new table to NSS. | 01:29 |
| wasabi | "realm" | 01:29 |
| wasabi | And do it right. | 01:29 |
| wasabi | So, it'll be a lot of work to do it right. =) | 01:29 |
| wasabi | Also I've been thinking about new async getpwent and such APIs | 01:30 |
| bmonty | wasabi: a lot of the work can be done in python | 01:38 |
| wasabi | Sure, the wizard, which spits out a pam and nss file. | 01:39 |
| wasabi | And creates the remote objects and all that cool stuff. | 01:39 |
| wasabi | But that's not the hard part. That's scripting. | 01:39 |
| wasabi | The hard part is reducing blocking in nss, or coming up with a good cache stragity, or putting cross realm support into libnss-ldap, or fallback, recover, walking the SRV records. | 01:40 |
| bmonty | I've been using LDAP+Kerberos for awhile now, and the PAM and NSS code needs some updating | 01:40 |
| wasabi | Yup. | 01:40 |
| bmonty | there is essentially no viable caching as far as I'm concerned | 01:41 |
| wasabi | Right now there isn't. | 01:41 |
| wasabi | Right now I use nss-updatedb =) | 01:41 |
| bmonty | ncsd doesn't seem to work at all, and I can't figure out why it doesn't cache any of my users or groups from the LDAP server | 01:41 |
| nkassi | I didn't know the whole spec was so extensive. So you really want to make this similar to the windows way. | 01:41 |
| wasabi | nkassi: I want it to work right, anyways. | 01:41 |
| nkassi | hehe | 01:41 |
| wasabi | Yeah nscd is broken. | 01:42 |
| bmonty | nkassi: that is how I read it.... | 01:42 |
| bmonty | i.e. LDAP+Kerberos | 01:42 |
| wasabi | Well, obviously, the most important goal from a marketing point is joining AD. | 01:42 |
| wasabi | Since they are so prevailant. | 01:42 |
| nkassi | true. | 01:42 |
| wasabi | But luckily it's a super-set of Kerberos+LDAP. | 01:43 |
| bmonty | wasabi: can't you already join an AD with samba? | 01:43 |
| bmonty | I think using NTLM | 01:43 |
| wasabi | Yeah, but it's not really integrated. | 01:43 |
| wasabi | We really want pam_krb5. | 01:43 |
| nkassi | I've had my share of head ache trying to do this exact thing ;-) We had to buy a commercial set of pam modules | 01:43 |
| bmonty | I agree | 01:43 |
| wasabi | And server-based UIDs | 01:43 |
| bmonty | has anyone thought about which kerberos server Ubuntu is going to use? Heimdal or MIT? | 01:44 |
| wasabi | Not really. | 01:44 |
| wasabi | I suspect when the dust clears we'll be using Heimdal. | 01:45 |
| wasabi | Simlpy because the Samba guys are pushing so much new stuff into it. | 01:45 |
| bmonty | supposedly the MIT server will be able to use LDAP for its user database in the near future | 01:45 |
| wasabi | Yeah, and Heimdal can now. | 01:45 |
| wasabi | I am totally convinced that server work is far off. | 01:45 |
| wasabi | A server without a good client is useless. | 01:45 |
| bmonty | does the existing pam-krb5 work with heimdal? | 01:45 |
| wasabi | bmonty: There's a heimdal compile of it. | 01:45 |
| bmonty | wasabi: don't you think that the server should be worked out before you get the client side going? | 01:46 |
| wasabi | Not really. | 01:46 |
| wasabi | We know what we're targetting. | 01:46 |
| lophyte | wasabi: the main goal is to get an AD-compliant client, right? | 01:46 |
| wasabi | The first goal, yes. | 01:46 |
| lophyte | I figured | 01:46 |
| wasabi | An AD compliant client that relies as much as possible on Krb5/LDAP | 01:46 |
| wasabi | So the client works with whatever we choose for our own server. | 01:47 |
| bmonty | I thought the goal was to have the server architecture for AD-like authentication and authorization as well as an update server | 01:47 |
| wasabi | THat's massive long term. | 01:47 |
| bmonty | obviously you need a client side for that as well | 01:47 |
| wasabi | If you've used AD you know the issues involved with that. | 01:47 |
| bmonty | I use LDAP+Kerberos and I know there are plenty of issues there | 01:48 |
| wasabi | The scope of work with AD is huge. | 01:48 |
| lophyte | I wish the SSO howto on the wiki wasn't half done | 01:48 |
| wasabi | I mean, what, it took MS 4 years and a 100 person team? | 01:48 |
| lophyte | working full time, no less | 01:49 |
| wasabi | Kerb5 at every level, LDAP schema defiinition, third party integration. | 01:49 |
| wasabi | Long term support, upgradability. | 01:49 |
| wasabi | Replication of schema. | 01:49 |
| wasabi | A custom CA. | 01:49 |
| wasabi | Domains, forests. | 01:49 |
| lophyte | indeed | 01:49 |
| bmonty | ..figuring out how to lock customers into their solution | 01:49 |
| wasabi | Pssh. That took them 2 minutes. | 01:49 |
| lophyte | haha | 01:50 |
| wasabi | "oh lets add 1 field to krb5" | 01:50 |
| nkassi | hehe. | 01:50 |
| wasabi | Other than that, it's plain LDAP/Kerberos. | 01:50 |
| Burgundavia | lophyte: which sso howto? | 01:50 |
| lophyte | http://help.ubuntu.com/community/SingleSignOn | 01:50 |
| bmonty | I started writing that SSO howto, but I ran out of time to document all of the issues I was running in to | 01:51 |
| Burgundavia | lophyte: didn't even know that existed | 01:51 |
| Burgundavia | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication | 01:51 |
| Burgundavia | I used that one | 01:51 |
| Burgundavia | need to update it | 01:51 |
| lophyte | I wanna set up a server, though | 01:51 |
| lophyte | ldap+krb5 | 01:51 |
| wasabi | Go for it. | 01:51 |
| lophyte | I don't know how.. that's the problem :P | 01:52 |
| wasabi | I do it for all my client machines. | 01:52 |
| bmonty | lophyte: the server part is mosty complete | 01:52 |
| wasabi | I have two KDCs, two LDAP servers. | 01:52 |
| bmonty | except for how to add users | 01:52 |
| wasabi | Replicating over the inet. ;) | 01:52 |
| lophyte | ergh.. | 01:53 |
| wasabi | Heh. If you're telling me slapd can replicate between 500 peers, you've suprised me. | 01:53 |
| wasabi | Until it can do that, it can't comprae to AD. ;) | 01:53 |
| lophyte | my computer sucks with 2 Xen guests.. | 01:53 |
| === lophyte thinks he needs more RAM | ||
| wasabi | lophyte: vmware. | 01:53 |
| wasabi | oh just ram? | 01:53 |
| wasabi | You get xen working? | 01:53 |
| lophyte | it sucks just as bad with vmware, lol | 01:53 |
| lophyte | yeah, works fine now | 01:53 |
| lophyte | my biggest issue was networking.. using NAT, it works fine | 01:53 |
| bmonty | I haven't seen it documented anywhere, but there is a big issue with udev and having group info on the LDAP server | 01:54 |
| bmonty | especially with edgy | 01:54 |
| wasabi | Should be fine... you just need to know how to configure nss right. | 01:54 |
| wasabi | ie NSS *must never block ever* | 01:54 |
| wasabi | Since all apps make an assumption that it never will. | 01:55 |
| bmonty | wasabi: that is one issue | 01:55 |
| wasabi | The only way to accomplush that is to drive NSS from a pure cache. | 01:55 |
| bmonty | the second is that the network isn't available when udev assigns groups to the devices it creates | 01:55 |
| wasabi | You should't need the network for local groups. | 01:55 |
| wasabi | try this: | 01:55 |
| wasabi | passwd: compat db | 01:55 |
| wasabi | group: compat db | 01:55 |
| wasabi | And use nss_updatedb (package nss-updatedb) to update teh DB files from the ldap module. | 01:56 |
| lophyte | bmonty: there's no instructions for configuring OpenLDAP.. I think that's the biggest issue | 01:56 |
| bmonty | wasabi: I want to have those groups stored in LDAP directly | 01:56 |
| wasabi | They are. | 01:56 |
| wasabi | cronjob, runs once an hour, that refreshes the cache. | 01:57 |
| bmonty | lophyte: good point, I have an OpenLDAP config file if you are interested | 01:57 |
| Burgundavia | lophyte: I am going to write some openLDAP stuff coming up next week or so | 01:57 |
| bmonty | wasabi: then you have a consistency issue | 01:57 |
| lophyte | bmonty: where do you configure the sasl binds, in the slapd config? | 01:57 |
| wasabi | bmonty: Yup. Until nss gets an async API, there is no solution. | 01:57 |
| wasabi | bmonty: But this one makes the box work. ;) | 01:57 |
| bmonty | lophyte: yes, you have to configure SASL in slapd.conf | 01:58 |
| wasabi | You cannot have a network query go out for every group lookup. NSS is always used single threaded. | 01:58 |
| lophyte | bmonty: ah, alright.. | 01:58 |
| wasabi | The best option I have is a daemon which keeps the local cache uptodate, by subscribing to LDAP notifications. | 01:58 |
| wasabi | ANd that daemon's name might be nscd in the future. heh | 01:59 |
| bmonty | lophyte: the two directives are sasl-secprops and sasl-regexp | 01:59 |
| bmonty | wasabi: can I get a copy of your nss config file? | 02:00 |
| lophyte | I need to get more RAM, so I can create a virtual network of computers to tinker with this stuff | 02:00 |
| bmonty | I've never been able to solve the issues with nss, or find good info on the net | 02:00 |
| bmonty | lophyte: www.newegg.com | 02:00 |
| lophyte | american site.. costs for shipping :P | 02:00 |
| lophyte | its probably cheaper to shop locally | 02:01 |
| bmonty | its isn't here :) | 02:01 |
| nkassi | hehe | 02:02 |
| === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-directory | ||
| bmonty | lophyte: you can use a pretty much stock LDAP config, but you have to add a couple of things for SASL to work correctly | 02:02 |
| nkassi | yeah, there nothing local around here that is cheaper than newegg + shipping ;-) | 02:02 |
| lophyte | oi.. | 02:02 |
| bmonty | I've also found that SASL binds do not work on 64-bot machines | 02:03 |
| lophyte | $60 for 512mb | 02:03 |
| lophyte | not bad | 02:03 |
| bmonty | I still have to check and see if that is true with edgy though | 02:04 |
| wasabi | I have a 64 bit machine which binds using SASL just fine. | 02:04 |
| wasabi | It's not a server though. | 02:04 |
| lophyte | alright, i gotta go.. | 02:04 |
| lophyte | perhaps later tonight I'll have some time to set this up | 02:05 |
| bmonty | wasabi: what is the architecture of your server machine? | 02:05 |
| lophyte | bbl | 02:05 |
| wasabi | em64t | 02:05 |
| wasabi | But it's windows. =) | 02:05 |
| bmonty | ok, I'm running OpenLDAP on i386, and SASL binds cause a segfault on the 64-bit machines | 02:05 |
| wasabi | 64bit clients? | 02:06 |
| bmonty | wasabi: yes | 02:06 |
| wasabi | Hmm. | 02:07 |
| wasabi | dapper? | 02:07 |
| bmonty | yeah with dapper | 02:07 |
| wasabi | oh well. core dump, post a bug. | 02:07 |
| bmonty | I haven't tested with edgy yet | 02:07 |
| bmonty | dist upgrading to edgy completly hosed my machine due to the LDAP/Kerberos setup I had | 02:07 |
| wasabi | heh | 02:08 |
| bmonty | it wouldn't boot even in "safe mode" | 02:08 |
| wasabi | Just set up NSS differently. | 02:08 |
| bmonty | wasabi: yeah, I wish I had known that | 02:09 |
| bmonty | once I did the dist upgrade though it was too late | 02:09 |
| wasabi | livecd + fix | 02:09 |
| wasabi | or init=/bin/bash | 02:09 |
| bmonty | where can I find info about setting up nss? | 02:09 |
| wasabi | Not really anywhere. | 02:09 |
| wasabi | me =) | 02:09 |
| bmonty | wasabi: too late, I already rebuilt the box :) | 02:09 |
| wasabi | ahh. you neve rhave to rebuild a linux box. | 02:10 |
| wasabi | You can always just boot with init=/bin/bash, get a shell, fix the problem, and reboot. | 02:10 |
| bmonty | do you have a working nss config file I can copy? | 02:10 |
| Burgundavia | soon, I am going to rewrite the LDAPclient stuff | 02:10 |
| wasabi | bmonty: Use libnss-db + nss-updatedb | 02:10 |
| Burgundavia | which will fix all the issues | 02:10 |
| wasabi | It's the only reasonable way to remove the issue. | 02:10 |
| bmonty | BTW, other stuff I have been working on is a python binding for libkrb5 | 02:10 |
| wasabi | Oh that's you? | 02:10 |
| wasabi | I saw somebody post about that someplace. | 02:10 |
| bmonty | and I also started a python-based LDAP user config utility | 02:11 |
| bmonty | both are still very experimental | 02:11 |
| Burgundavia | isn't the latter just n-a? | 02:11 |
| bmonty | my python-krb5 is based on MIT's code, so it will require some modification if the decision is to use heimdal | 02:11 |
| wasabi | bmonty: What's your goal with that? | 02:12 |
| wasabi | What are you binding? | 02:12 |
| wasabi | GSSAPI or ? | 02:12 |
| bmonty | wasabi: so you can use the krb5 library directly from python | 02:12 |
| wasabi | To do what? | 02:12 |
| wasabi | kadmin? | 02:12 |
| bmonty | whatever you want | 02:12 |
| wasabi | Just wondering what sort of program you would build that uses that. | 02:13 |
| bmonty | kadmin uses the krb5 lib to do its functions | 02:13 |
| bmonty | I have a rewrite of klist in python using my bindings | 02:13 |
| bmonty | I don't have enough of the API to do kadmin...yet | 02:13 |
| bmonty | for a lot of client side stuff you probably want to use GSSAPI | 02:14 |
| bmonty | but I think if you want to have a tool that can manage a LDAP+Kerberos server you need to use the krb5 lib | 02:14 |
| bmonty | ...and if you want to write in C there is no problem with that | 02:15 |
| bmonty | if you want to use python do develop your solution you are stuck since there is currently no binding to the krb5 libs that python can use | 02:15 |
| wasabi | Well, doesn't help much with AD. | 02:16 |
| wasabi | That I can see. | 02:16 |
| Burgundavia | interesting: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/10/msg01177.html | 02:16 |
| bmonty | why do you say that? | 02:16 |
| wasabi | Since you don't use anything resembling kadmin to manage principals. | 02:16 |
| bmonty | krb5 tools can talk to AD | 02:17 |
| wasabi | And there's no need for client management of kerberos at all. | 02:17 |
| wasabi | It should work silently and transparently. | 02:17 |
| bmonty | wasabi: you are assuming that I'm running AD on a windows box, correct? | 02:17 |
| wasabi | No. | 02:17 |
| wasabi | I'm just comparing MS's solution to our potential one. | 02:17 |
| wasabi | Which is that I don't want our users dealing with krb5 principals. ;) | 02:18 |
| wasabi | New User, type the name, done. | 02:18 |
| wasabi | The only interface component we should need on the desktop is a notification tray that says "You're authentication has expired. Please click here to renew. *button*" | 02:18 |
| whiprush | wasabi: ajforgue has a little ticket applet thing he wrote. | 02:19 |
| wasabi | Yeah. I hope we don' thave to show it to users ever. ;0 | 02:19 |
| === bmonty [n=bmonty@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-directory | ||
| Burgundavia | wasabi: do we have pieces of software in universe that needs to migrate to main? | 02:20 |
| bmonty | wasabi: what are you using to manage users and groups in your setup? | 02:20 |
| wasabi | GQ mostly. | 02:20 |
| wasabi | Burgundavia: Probably will. | 02:21 |
| bmonty | which is a decent tool, but can't manage kerberos principals | 02:21 |
| wasabi | Yeah. I don't want to expose kerberos princs to users. | 02:21 |
| wasabi | I sort of want them to be stored in LDAP. | 02:22 |
| bmonty | I was thinking that eventually we need a tool that can manage users in the LDAP directory and the krb5 database | 02:22 |
| wasabi | Also I'd be worried about the security/policy issues of seperating the two. | 02:22 |
| bmonty | wasabi: I want that as well | 02:22 |
| wasabi | ie an admin user could potentially compromise the integrity of the relation between the two. | 02:22 |
| wasabi | Once, again, pulling another example from windows. THey have discrete APIs to create a user... which handes the kerberos part and ldap part together. | 02:22 |
| wasabi | ANd makes sure all suceeds. | 02:22 |
| bmonty | is there an open source solution that can do that? | 02:23 |
| wasabi | Not yet. | 02:23 |
| bmonty | hence the need for tools to manage those | 02:23 |
| wasabi | Yes, new tools... which don't use kadmin. | 02:23 |
| wasabi | Consider this. Im my company, HR creates users. | 02:23 |
| wasabi | Because HR hires and fires them. | 02:23 |
| bmonty | yup, which requires that you can link in the krb5 lib... | 02:24 |
| wasabi | Nope. | 02:24 |
| wasabi | So, the HR users have permissions to create users. Not permissions to create principals. | 02:24 |
| nkassi | Does this tool require a seperate spec ? Cause work on that could be started pretty much now. It would be extremely useful currently. | 02:24 |
| wasabi | Not permissions to create LDAP objects. | 02:24 |
| wasabi | but discrete permissions to issue a CreateUser RPC call to the server. | 02:24 |
| wasabi | The logic of that lives on the server, where it can't be subverted. | 02:24 |
| wasabi | If the user himself could create a principal, he could create one, and link it to any object. | 02:24 |
| wasabi | Or rename it independently. | 02:25 |
| wasabi | Or assign permissiosn to it he didn't otherwise have the permission to assign. | 02:25 |
| wasabi | HR can create users, but they cannot touch anything critical. THey are not systems admins. | 02:25 |
| bmonty | that all makes sense to me | 02:25 |
| wasabi | It's something we're missing. | 02:25 |
| wasabi | Completely. | 02:25 |
| bmonty | we are missing it in that there are currently no tools that implement that process | 02:26 |
| bmonty | I think the software that is available has features that could be used to make that work | 02:26 |
| bmonty | without rewriting a whole ton of stuff | 02:26 |
| wasabi | Sure, but I don't htink allow kadmin access from a client machine solves it. | 02:27 |
| bmonty | wasabi: I agree, I never proposed that | 02:28 |
| bmonty | BTW, can I take a look at your nss config file? | 02:29 |
| bmonty | and what were the other nss packages you said I needed to install? | 02:29 |
| wasabi | nss-updatedb | 02:31 |
| wasabi | my config file is "passwd: compat db" | 02:31 |
| wasabi | group: compat db | 02:32 |
| wasabi | nothing else | 02:32 |
| bmonty | and this basically copies the users and groups from the LDAP server to the local machine? | 02:32 |
| ajmitch | hey bmonty | 02:36 |
| bmonty | hi ajmitch | 02:37 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: you around? | 02:39 |
| ajmitch | bmonty: coming to MV? | 02:39 |
| bmonty | ajmitch: no | 02:39 |
| ajmitch | unfortunate | 02:39 |
| bmonty | yeah...I'm way too busy at work | 02:40 |
| bmonty | ajmitch: is this going to get discussed at MV? | 02:42 |
| ajmitch | definitely | 02:43 |
| ajmitch | write up anything else you think we need | 02:44 |
| bmonty | ok | 02:44 |
| Burgundavia | bmonty: I have been using lat instead of gq | 02:48 |
| Burgundavia | a little crashy, but a much nicer UI | 02:48 |
| whiprush | ajmitch: yeah | 02:48 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: got the hotel details? | 02:48 |
| whiprush | dang, not on me, I did it old school. (pen and paper) | 02:48 |
| === ajmitch will need to give these details to the friendly people in customs :) | ||
| ajmitch | ok | 02:48 |
| whiprush | oh | 02:48 |
| whiprush | let me find it on the map | 02:49 |
| Burgundavia | I just lie | 02:49 |
| ajmitch | mainly just the address | 02:49 |
| ajmitch | Burgundavia: I also want to know where it is | 02:49 |
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| whiprush | http://www.choicehotels.com/ires/en-us/html/HotelInfo?hotel=CA679&promo=gglocal | 02:49 |
| whiprush | booya | 02:49 |
| ajmitch | nice, I wonder how dodgy it is | 02:49 |
| whiprush | one of my friends works at google and said that it was nice. | 02:50 |
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| whiprush | not like, omg nice. but a nice normal hotel for a decent price | 02:50 |
| ajmitch | that's excellent | 02:50 |
| ajmitch | aha, found it on google maps | 02:51 |
| ajmitch | nice & close to google HQ | 02:51 |
| whiprush | yep | 02:51 |
| whiprush | learned my lesson after staying all far at the boston summit | 02:52 |
| ajmitch | right by the freeway though | 02:52 |
| ajmitch | like *right* beside it, by the look of the map | 02:52 |
| whiprush | are you concerned about the noise? | 02:53 |
| ajmitch | it shouldn't be too bad, I guess | 02:54 |
| Burgundavia | ajmitch: whiprush's melodious snoring will drown out all | 02:54 |
| wasabi | bmonty: "nss-updatedb ldap" will retrieve the entire passwd/group tables from the libnss-ldap module, and store them in a bdb database. | 02:54 |
| wasabi | bmonty: the "db" nss module will read from those. | 02:54 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: that's what I expect | 02:54 |
| wasabi | You schedule nss-updatedb to be run, using GSSAPI/SASL binding, every hour or something reasonable. | 02:54 |
| wasabi | As root. | 02:54 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: looks like we get free google wifi | 02:54 |
| whiprush | ajmitch: don't worry, it's california, the cars don't actually move on the freeway | 02:55 |
| whiprush | it's more of a parking lot. | 02:55 |
| wasabi | I wish I could drive. | 02:55 |
| bmonty | wasabi: ok, thanks | 02:55 |
| ajmitch | haha | 02:56 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: what are the arrangements for the airport? shall I try & get a shuttle in? | 02:56 |
| whiprush | ajmitch: I recommend the train | 02:57 |
| whiprush | the BART | 02:57 |
| ajmitch | but the BART doesn't go down that way, does it? | 02:58 |
| whiprush | but we should probably ask someone from mountain view | 02:58 |
| whiprush | it goes to mountain view | 02:58 |
| whiprush | then you can cab from there | 02:58 |
| === ajmitch really hopes he gets paid before saturday :) | ||
| ajmitch | either that or if I catch a shuttle in, mpt & infinity are on the same flight as I am | 02:01 |
| Burgundavia | from sfo there is a train | 02:02 |
| Burgundavia | whiprush: we caught that | 02:02 |
| ajmitch | caltrain | 02:02 |
| Burgundavia | however, google runs buses from downtown | 02:02 |
| Burgundavia | and I presume the airport | 02:02 |
| Burgundavia | they may be running buses for us | 02:02 |
| ajmitch | canonical sponsored people have been told that there's a shuttle | 02:02 |
| ajmitch | not google-provided | 02:02 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 02:03 |
| ajmitch | Supershuttle http://www.supershuttle.com/. >From San Francisco, it would | 02:03 |
| ajmitch | be about $40-45.00 one way. | 02:03 |
| ajmitch | expensive | 02:03 |
| Burgundavia | you are landing at sfo? | 02:05 |
| ajmitch | yeah | 02:05 |
| Burgundavia | sfo is on the caltrain run | 02:06 |
| ajmitch | so I saw | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | I would take that to mtv, and then take a taxi from there | 02:06 |
| ajmitch | I'd have to check where it stops in MV | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | downtown | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | about 20 minutes from google | 02:06 |
| ajmitch | ok | 02:06 |
| Burgundavia | this is the train we took for ubucon | 02:06 |
| === Burgundavia whips whiprush for being useless about this sort of stuff | ||
| ajmitch | how much does it cost? | 02:07 |
| Burgundavia | caltrain? $10? | 02:07 |
| ajmitch | k | 02:07 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: when do you get to the hotel? | 02:08 |
| whiprush | damn, all these questions! | 02:08 |
| whiprush | sec | 02:08 |
| ajmitch | heh | 02:08 |
| ajmitch | we like to plan ahead :) | 02:09 |
| whiprush | probably 8-ish on Saturday the 4th. | 02:11 |
| whiprush | 8pm | 02:11 |
| whiprush | I'll have your name on the room if you get there before we do. | 02:12 |
| ajmitch | much earlier | 02:12 |
| ajmitch | flight lands at 11:15AM | 02:12 |
| whiprush | ok | 02:12 |
| whiprush | when I finalize the reservation I'll let them know you'll be coming in first | 02:12 |
| ajmitch | I can probably fill in the time :) | 02:13 |
| ajmitch | thanks | 02:13 |
| whiprush | I am sure there will be people around to hang out with | 02:13 |
| whiprush | google is open on the weekends, I wonder if people will be hanging out there. | 02:13 |
| ajmitch | I wonder how long it'll take to walk to google | 02:13 |
| whiprush | ajmitch: hopefully my friend will be our ride in everyday, heh. | 02:14 |
| ajmitch | yeah, but I may go for a walk anyway | 02:14 |
| whiprush | oh | 02:15 |
| ajmitch | besides, I need to wander into MV about 5pm or so | 02:17 |
| whiprush | I wouldn't mind walking everyday if it's like, less than 45 minutes or something | 02:20 |
| ajmitch | looks like it may be, but the tricky part is where to cross the freeway | 02:20 |
| whiprush | I am trying to remember if it's an elevated freeway | 02:21 |
| whiprush | let me ask my google friend | 02:21 |
| Burgundavia | got a linky to the map? | 02:22 |
| Burgundavia | I might be able to remember | 02:22 |
| whiprush | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=hotel+Mountain+View,+CA&ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=37.40746,-122.082739&spn=0.04568,0.114326&om=1&iwloc=H | 02:22 |
| ajmitch | just looking at google maps | 02:22 |
| whiprush | I remember driving by that airbase multiple times | 02:23 |
| ajmitch | we're at H on that map | 02:23 |
| === lophyte has never been to Cali | ||
| === ajmitch has only been in airports there | ||
| lophyte | actually I've never been out of Canada... | 02:24 |
| lophyte | or Ontario at that | 02:24 |
| === lophyte is sheltered :( | ||
| ajmitch | took me awhile to get out of NZ | 02:25 |
| bmonty | just clicked on the map link...I've actually been there before :) | 02:26 |
| lophyte | alrighty.. I'm gonna go through the SSO howto | 02:26 |
| ajmitch | bmonty: the hotel, or the area? | 02:26 |
| bmonty | the area | 02:26 |
| bmonty | I think the hotel I stayed at was right down the street | 02:27 |
| bmonty | I remember thinking that the place was set up to get around really easy without a car | 02:27 |
| === lophyte looks at his bank account and sighs | ||
| ajmitch | lophyte: I know how it is | 02:28 |
| ajmitch | bread & water for me for the week :) | 02:28 |
| lophyte | lol | 02:29 |
| lophyte | I really need to find a job.. | 02:29 |
| whiprush | ajmitch: my friend says it's 10-20 minute walk! | 02:30 |
| ajmitch | oh if I get paid this week I'd have about $2K USD by the weekend, and I'd be fine | 02:30 |
| lophyte | I don't get paid.. so.. | 02:30 |
| lophyte | this is all I have | 02:30 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: wonderful :) | 02:30 |
| ajmitch | whiprush: I could probably walk from the train station too :) | 02:30 |
| whiprush | that was like a 15 minute drive | 02:31 |
| whiprush | but the area down there is nice | 02:31 |
| ajmitch | ok | 02:31 |
| whiprush | you could probably walk around the shopping areas and whatnot if you're bored | 02:31 |
| ajmitch | the train station looks closer than google does | 02:32 |
| ajmitch | it's a walk straight down moffett blvd | 02:32 |
| ajmitch | yeah, since I can't get to mass on the sunday, I'll be going on saturday, so that'll take some time | 02:33 |
| ajmitch | conveniently that's right beside the train station | 02:33 |
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| whiprush | Burgundavia: where can I find channel logs? | 03:49 |
| whiprush | is it still on people.something? | 03:49 |
| Burgundavia | whiprush: for this channel? | 03:49 |
| whiprush | ya | 03:49 |
| Burgundavia | people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | 03:49 |
| whiprush | ta | 03:49 |
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| wasabi | So I've been thinking about the caching problem. | 06:21 |
| wasabi | Number of different solutions. | 06:21 |
| wasabi | either fix nscd, or use/write something else. | 06:22 |
| wasabi | The db idea is pretty appealing. | 06:22 |
| wasabi | Guess I'd be worried about db corruption though. | 06:27 |
| wasabi | hmmmmmmmmmmm | 06:27 |
| wasabi | I guess it would be reasonable for remote users to simply not exist until nscd starts. | 06:34 |
| whiprush | wasabi: also I thought about something while driving around today | 06:34 |
| whiprush | that RH cert server isn't oss. | 06:34 |
| wasabi | They have a cert server? | 06:36 |
| whiprush | yep | 06:36 |
| wasabi | I've heard some good things about OpenCA. | 06:36 |
| whiprush | I was driving around and was like "oh shit, we're going to need one of those." | 06:36 |
| wasabi | Yeah. | 06:36 |
| wasabi | Thought about it earlier. | 06:36 |
| wasabi | Again, this is why server-side is a huge project. ;) | 06:36 |
| wasabi | So many pieces that all tie in together. | 06:37 |
| wasabi | And are huge on their own. | 06:37 |
| wasabi | I've sort of got a game plan for where I will start work at. I've already got a broken patch to add a realm table to nss. | 06:38 |
| wasabi | I'll get that done, then start digging into libnss. | 06:38 |
| wasabi | -ldap that is | 06:38 |
| wasabi | Or whatever. To be honest, I don't have enought time for this. | 06:40 |
| wasabi | me->bed | 06:41 |
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| lophyte | morning all | 03:47 |
| wasabi | moni | 04:03 |
| wasabi | Does anybody want to be responsible for seperating server stuff out of NetworkAuthentication? | 04:15 |
| MagnusR | you mean in the specification? | 04:16 |
| wasabi | just the wiki. | 04:16 |
| wasabi | it needs cleanup | 04:16 |
| MagnusR | I can give it a try. Shall I create a new page NetworkAuthenticationServer to put things that are cleand out until we now where to put it? | 04:17 |
| wasabi | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication/Client is client stuff | 04:18 |
| wasabi | So, I'd imagine /Server would be server stuff. | 04:18 |
| MagnusR | Hmm seams that we have three diferent pages today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication/Client https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication/ScratchPad | 04:20 |
| wasabi | ScratchPad was some stuff I was just braindumping too | 04:20 |
| wasabi | It can be ignored. =) | 04:20 |
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| tepsipakki | wasabi: was it you that had some ideas about an offline "cache" (using bzr) for a networked filesystem? | 04:23 |
| wasabi | yeah | 04:24 |
| tepsipakki | do you know about FS-Cache? it only provides the basic support for caching stuff but the offline-use is left to the fs itself | 04:24 |
| wasabi | Not a networked file system. | 04:24 |
| MagnusR | What about using ifolders? | 04:25 |
| alp | anyone familiar with the novell ldap stuff? | 04:26 |
| wasabi | Not really. Never had a chance to touch it. | 04:26 |
| alp | i think we have a good c# ldap stack | 04:26 |
| alp | that should be "they" | 04:27 |
| alp | don't know if their directory services are based on that, think it's all new | 04:28 |
| tepsipakki | ald: do you mean eDirectory? | 04:30 |
| tepsipakki | alp: ^^ | 04:30 |
| MagnusR | I think the c#-bindings are used to connect new things to the old NDS stuff. | 04:30 |
| alp | http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Ldapcsharp <- looks standards based and pretty active | 04:33 |
| lophyte | wtf :\ | 04:43 |
| lophyte | kadmin: Improper format of Kerberos configuration file while initializing krb5 library | 04:43 |
| wasabi | Novell's LDAP C# libraries are fine. | 04:45 |
| wasabi | But I suspect nobody here is going to use them. | 04:45 |
| bmonty | lophyte: check your krb5.conf file, especially the part that tells the lib how to contact the kadmin server | 04:45 |
| lophyte | why do I get the feeling these locale errors are reeking havoc | 04:46 |
| alp | wasabi: oh, what's the game plan? | 04:48 |
| alp | when i put together the mono debian packages and policy all those years ago this is exactly the kind of neat project i had in mind :-) | 04:49 |
| alp | i am unfamiliar with the python libraries though, it's quite possible they're more suitable | 04:50 |
| MagnusR | I think Apple have released Python Bindings for parts of kerberos. | 04:52 |
| bmonty | MagnusR: do you have a link? | 04:53 |
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| alp | i have done some work with managed pam plugins and nss | 04:54 |
| wasabi | Yeah, but whatever we do, I want to have uptake on every distro. | 04:55 |
| wasabi | And there's a political situation that matters. | 04:55 |
| wasabi | Managed NSS sounds sorta wonky too. A CLR in every process instance? | 04:55 |
| wasabi | Unless it's a shim to an out of process CLR or something. | 04:56 |
| alp | the nss stuff was just for configuration | 04:57 |
| wasabi | I think we've got a pretty good plan on where to go from here for client side stuff. I think now I'll just do some little work before UMV to make sure it's reasonable, then have the full conversation at UMV. | 04:59 |
| wasabi | Unless mark pays some people, it's not going to happen... I suspect. =) | 04:59 |
| alp | i think it would be doable in a few months if it didn't aim to interoperate with AD, use ldap properly and so on | 05:00 |
| wasabi | ALl that's needed to interoperate with AD is LDAP. | 05:00 |
| wasabi | And Kerberos. | 05:00 |
| wasabi | AD isn't very special. | 05:00 |
| MagnusR | bmonty: It is called python-kerberos in debian unstable. It's under Apachel License | 05:01 |
| bmonty | MagnusR: thanks | 05:01 |
| alp | apparently integrating the c# ldap libraries with kerberos is on the novell todo list, though that means it's not around now (http://forge.novell.com/modules/xfmod/newsportal/article.php?group_id=1318&msg_id=981&group=novell.devsup.ldapcsharp) | 05:02 |
| lophyte | ergh.. why won't the kdc run.. | 05:04 |
| wasabi | Error? | 05:04 |
| lophyte | nothing at all | 05:04 |
| wasabi | Well, it has logs. =) | 05:04 |
| lophyte | yeah, but there's no logs either | 05:05 |
| wasabi | /var/log/krb5kdc i think | 05:05 |
| lophyte | yeah nothing there | 05:05 |
| wasabi | well, try to start it without the init script. | 05:05 |
| wasabi | then strace it. | 05:06 |
| lophyte | krb5kdc: cannot initialize realm BLINDUTOPIA.COM - see log file for details | 05:10 |
| lophyte | but there's no log file | 05:10 |
| wasabi | Heh. | 05:10 |
| lophyte | that's helpful | 05:11 |
| lophyte | stupid kdc | 05:11 |
| wasabi | Interesting. Looks like Heimdal and MIT both have PKINIT support, and so does pam_krb5. | 05:12 |
| wasabi | I think our pam-krb5 is diverged. | 05:12 |
| wasabi | Yeah. Completely. | 05:15 |
| tepsipakki | pam_krb5 from redhat? | 05:18 |
| wasabi | Yeah. Looks like the two bases diveraged years ago. | 05:18 |
| wasabi | Ours seems to be maintained still, theirs is only maintained internally. | 05:19 |
| tepsipakki | yep | 05:19 |
| lophyte | oi. | 05:19 |
| wasabi | http://www.stacken.kth.se/lists/heimdal-discuss/2006-10/msg00034.html | 05:19 |
| tepsipakki | oh, there are tools in fedora/rhel that notify about expired tickets | 05:19 |
| wasabi | We got PKINIT patches just a few days ago. | 05:20 |
| wasabi | Looks like Nalin from RH is participating in the conversation (I talked to him a few years ago, he mainted libpam-krb5 internallt) | 05:20 |
| wasabi | so I bet they'll merge again | 05:20 |
| lophyte | this is silly | 05:21 |
| MagnusR | I have started to move server things from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication/Server. Please add and comment. | 05:22 |
| wasabi | Nice. Thanks. | 05:22 |
| tepsipakki | slapd is from openldap? how about fedora directory server? | 05:23 |
| tepsipakki | oh, it was mentioned | 05:24 |
| tepsipakki | =) | 05:24 |
| tepsipakki | (on the wiki) | 05:24 |
| MagnusR | Fedora DS has alot of nice webbinterfaces. So I think it should be evaluated. Unfoutunately it takes more resources. | 05:25 |
| tepsipakki | I remember seeing an ITP of it | 05:25 |
| MagnusR | Any one knows if there are any deb:s for it. | 05:25 |
| wasabi | There aren't. | 05:25 |
| wasabi | Few people here were workingon it | 05:25 |
| wasabi | The interfaces require Sun's JRE. | 05:26 |
| MagnusR | That's bad | 05:26 |
| lophyte | hrm | 05:26 |
| tepsipakki | but we have that now :) | 05:26 |
| lophyte | so I got the kdc to start.. | 05:26 |
| lophyte | but now kadmin fails | 05:26 |
| wasabi | Think I'm going to try to migrate my kerberos to LDAP | 05:30 |
| tepsipakki | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=315297 | 05:30 |
| tepsipakki | that's the ITP | 05:30 |
| MagnusR | wasabi: But with only ldap you do not get the SSO possibility. | 05:31 |
| wasabi | Huh? | 05:31 |
| tepsipakki | magnusR: does fds have a kdc as well? | 05:31 |
| wasabi | Didn't say replace Kerberos. | 05:32 |
| wasabi | Store keys in LDAP | 05:32 |
| MagnusR | wasabi: ok, missunderstod you | 05:32 |
| MagnusR | tepsipakki: no | 05:32 |
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| lophyte | ugh.. okay, I give up | 05:34 |
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| wasabi | Anybody aware how to enable simple bind in slapd only over ldapi? | 06:01 |
| wasabi | Interesting. When creating a new principal, it doesn't search for existing objects. | 06:11 |
| wasabi | THat's not so good. | 06:11 |
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| lophyte | hrm.. | 06:41 |
| lophyte | yay, more errors | 06:45 |
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| lophyte | how do I add a host principal in krb5? | 06:56 |
| wasabi | kadmin | 07:01 |
| wasabi | host/fqdn | 07:01 |
| lophyte | how do you use kadmin without already having a principal set up, though? | 07:01 |
| wasabi | kadmin -l | 07:01 |
| lophyte | ah. | 07:01 |
| lophyte | ..eh, there is no l option | 07:02 |
| wasabi | kadmin.local then with MIT | 07:02 |
| lophyte | hehe, no kadmin.local either :P | 07:02 |
| wasabi | Beats me then. ;) | 07:02 |
| wasabi | one of the two should be present. | 07:03 |
| lophyte | or do I need krb5-admin-server installed | 07:03 |
| lophyte | meh.. i have to go | 07:04 |
| lophyte | I'll look for a complete howto later | 07:05 |
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| siretart | can you guys recommend a tutorial and/or good documentation for MIT Kerberos in edgy? | 10:21 |
| === ajmitch would have to dig through his bookmarks at home | ||
| wasabi | Nope. | 10:23 |
| Burgundavia | ajmitch, wasabi: would one of you mind responding to that -directory announce post on -devel and answer those peoples questions? | 10:39 |
| wasabi | looking | 10:40 |
| wasabi | oh. missed all that | 10:40 |
| tepsipakki | I tried tp3 a week ago | 10:41 |
| tepsipakki | shared libraries are broken, so I couldn't run the provisioning script | 10:42 |
| tepsipakki | or program, actually | 10:42 |
| tepsipakki | that's samba-4.0.0tp3 I was talking about :) | 10:43 |
| ajmitch | yep | 10:44 |
| ajmitch | I saw your post on the samba list :) | 10:44 |
| === ajmitch was trying it out as well | ||
| tepsipakki | oh :) | 10:45 |
| tepsipakki | the packaging needed some tweaks to get through | 10:46 |
| ajmitch | yes | 10:46 |
| === ajmitch was looking at that also | ||
| tepsipakki | anyway, I'm looking forward to the beta | 10:47 |
| tepsipakki | whenever that is released.. | 10:48 |
| ajmitch | yep | 10:48 |
| wasabi | What do I want to respond to? heh | 10:58 |
| wasabi | What do I want to respond to? heh | 11:07 |
| lophyte | Burgundavia: I don't think I have time now to finish up the -ca approval.. I've got some things that need to be taken care of offline at the moment | 11:14 |
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| === Toadstool [n=jcorbier@ubuntu/member/toadstool] has joined #ubuntu-directory | ||
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