[12:18] <LaserJock> cbx33!!!
[12:18] <cbx33> LaserJock, !!!
[02:35] <paolob> Hi guys! Is the page https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdgyReleaseNotes correct? In order to upgrade to dapper we had to rebuild the ltsp chroot. Now nothing is said about that
[02:36] <paolob> has it been integrated in the apt-get dist-upgrade process?
[02:37] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:37] <LaserJock> I think perhaps it's included in the new LTSP
[02:37] <LaserJock> but I'm not positive about that
[02:38] <paolob> ogra, isn't here?
[02:38] <LaserJock> nah
[02:38] <LaserJock> it's the middle of the night in Germany
[02:40] <fregomt> I'm thinking about building a server to run Edubuntu 6.10.  I'm considering an AMD Opteron (64bit).  I would have a mix of 32bit and 64 bit thin clients. Is this a problem?  Do you do a 32bit install on the 64 bit server? 
[02:41] <LaserJock> I don't think you have to
[02:42] <fregomt> cool.. any problems with the 64bit version?  I've heard of some difficulties getting some things to work under 64bit, though I'm currently only running a 32bit with regular Ubuntu
[02:42] <LaserJock> well, in general the issues with 64bit Ubuntu are multimedia codecs and flash
[02:44] <fregomt> ahhh... so if I'm running a 32bit thin client it boots a different image than the 64 bit server... and I wouldn't have that problem I assume?
[02:44] <fregomt> And for that matter if I should add a 64 bit thin client, I could have it boot the 32bit image too and avoid that problem, right?
[02:46] <LaserJock> I'm really not sure but I know the client chroots can be a separate arch then the server
[02:46] <fregomt> ya, I think you're right.  I guess I need to bite the bullet and try edubuntu.
[02:47] <fregomt> Either that or find a good howto for adding LTSP to regular Ubuntu.
[02:47] <fregomt> as I really don't care about all the education software.  (Learning is for foolz!)
[02:49] <LaserJock> yeah, it's pretty easy to go either way
[02:50] <fregomt> cool, thanks Laser.
[03:06] <sbalneav> Evening everyone!
[03:06] <sbalneav> !seen ogra
[03:06] <ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
[03:06] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: seen ogra
[03:06] <edubuntugirl> ogra was last seen on #edubuntu 2 days, 10 hours, 3 minutes and 52 seconds ago, saying: we'll need something like a config file or even an lts.conf parameter that defines which apps are local apps and which are run on the server [Fri Oct 27 18:02:05 2006] 
[03:12] <lguerra> hi all
[03:17] <sbalneav> Hello
[03:33] <lguerra> ogra, ping
[03:34] <lguerra> ogra: in ubuntu-es an edubuntu user, have problems with dhcpd, inittab dont exist and dhcpd ask for this file
[03:36] <sbalneav> lguerra: inittab doesn't exist?
[03:37] <sbalneav> Is this a new edubuntu install?  Or an upgrade?
[03:37] <lguerra> new install sbalneav 
[03:38] <sbalneav> I'll join the channel, but someone will have to translate. :)
[03:40] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[03:40] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[03:45] <dibblego> can you upgrade 6.06 to 6.10 with the live or install CD?
[03:46] <sbalneav> Install, I believe
[03:46] <dibblego> ah thanks
[03:48] <bimberi> yep, install CD only
[03:48] <dibblego> righto cheers
[03:57] <lguerra> sbalneav, thanks, i dont have idea what feruchi do, but all its ok for him
[03:58] <sbalneav> I bet he was picking up another ltsp server.
[03:58] <sbalneav> My suspicion is, he'll have problems again :)
[03:58] <sbalneav> That's why I'll hang around :)
[03:59] <lguerra> sbalneav, Edubuntu LTSP documentation where is?
[03:59] <sbalneav> heh
[03:59] <sbalneav> I'm working on some of it now.
[04:00] <sbalneav> It's on the edubuntu svn repository
[04:00] <sbalneav> http://svn.binaryredneck.net/handbook
[04:00] <lguerra> sbalneav, if EC considers convenient, I would be able to translate this al Spanish when this list
[04:01] <sbalneav> Both a Spanish and a Portugese translation would be awesome.  We get a lot of LTSP users from South America, and all I can speak is a little French, and not very well at that :)
[04:04] <lguerra> sbalneav, I continued entering to #edubuntu, and I am working with #edubuntu-is, the unico problem is that itself be not to handled svn; but I would be able to collaborate with that translation
[04:04] <sbalneav> really, the doco should move to a bzr style repository.
[04:05] <lguerra> doco?
[04:06] <lguerra> what is that?
[04:06] <sbalneav> Short for documentation
[04:06] <lguerra> ohhhh
[04:08] <lguerra> i read about svn for begin to translate 
[04:29] <^Ghost2U> hi all!
[04:30] <^Ghost2U> having probs with edgy.. 2x thin client not finding dhcp server (edubuntu default install)
[04:32] <^Ghost2U> does edgy install and activate the ltsp packages like breezy, or do I need to perform additional steps?
[04:34] <sbalneav> ^Ghost2U: Edubuntu should install and activate by default.
[04:34] <sbalneav> Do you have 2 network cards in the server, or one?
[04:34] <^Ghost2U> hi sb: only one... 
[04:35] <^Ghost2U> it's not my default gateway
[04:35] <sbalneav> Are there any other dhcpd servers running on your network?
[04:36] <^Ghost2U> only this edubuntu box
[04:36] <^Ghost2U> M$ gets ip from it, but 2x doesn't
[04:37] <sbalneav> You don't have a cable or dsl router handing out dhcp addrsses?
[04:37] <^Ghost2U> not on this network
[04:37] <sbalneav> ok, what kind of thin clients are they? Old machines?
[04:37] <^Ghost2U> not really
[04:38] <^Ghost2U> p4- 2.8GB... worked with breezy setup before
[04:38] <^Ghost2U> GHz
[04:39] <sbalneav> ok, what's the ip address of the server?  And can you paste the dhcpd.conf file from /etc/ltsp to the pastebin
[04:39] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[04:39] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[04:43] <^Ghost2U> ok
[04:43] <^Ghost2U> done
[04:46] <sbalneav> What's the link?
[04:47] <sbalneav> My mental telepathy's down today.
[04:49] <bimberi> c'mon sbalneav, lift your game ;p
[04:50] <^Ghost2U> sb: sorry... trying something
[04:51] <^Ghost2U> whats the command for restarting dhcp??
[04:51] <sbalneav> invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server restart
[04:54] <PurpleBlue> Hello
[04:54] <^Ghost2U> sb: it was my dhcp settings for ltsp
[04:55] <PurpleBlue> When I used stock Totem Moivie player, to play a standard .mp3 from web, it says I need codec.  Is this normal?
[04:57] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: yes, mp3 is a patent encumbered format, and hence not installed by default in (ed)ubuntu
[04:57] <bimberi> !mp3
[04:57] <ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[04:58] <^Ghost2U> haleluja!!! (or something like that) They finally got local sound working on clients
[04:59] <sbalneav> Yup, we did.
[05:00] <sbalneav> Ogra and I will be speccing out the next step, replacing esd with pulseaudio, at mountainview
[05:01] <PurpleBlue> Ubotu, thank you.  Good info!
[05:05] <PurpleBlue> What is LTS backpors?
[05:05] <^Ghost2U> sb: to all of you hard working ppl -- Thanks :D
[05:06] <Amaranth> sbalneav: I'll have to be there for that one :)
[05:06] <sbalneav> Thanks@
[05:08] <^Ghost2U> any suggestions afa thin h/w?? (helping a broke parochial school setup a lab)
[05:08] <PurpleBlue> I am just trying to figure out what repositories should/should not be enable in synaptic package manager
[05:08] <^Ghost2U> (maybe broke is too strong, financially struggling)
[05:12] <sbalneav> ^Ghost2U: lots of old machines will work.  Depending on where you are, there's lots of values to be had on ebay, or at local swap shops.
[05:13] <sbalneav> Anything with a 200mhz processor, and 32-64 megs of memory will make a great thin client.
[05:15] <^Ghost2U> sbalneav: Thanks, I'm also considering actual thin client boxes.. (a donation, my son's school)
[05:16] <sbalneav> www.disklessworkstations.com
[05:19] <^Ghost2U> sbalneav: not sure they're still around.. cannot connect
[05:21] <PurpleBlue> Did I mess up?  sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg g streamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plug ins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse gxine libxine-main1 libxine-extra codecs
[05:21] <PurpleBlue> Password:
[05:21] <PurpleBlue> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavail able)
[05:21] <PurpleBlue> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another proc ess using it?
[05:22] <sbalneav> ^Ghost2U: I know they're still around, site's just down temporarily.
[05:22] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: close synaptic
[05:22] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
[05:23] <sbalneav> PurpleBlue: It might just be doing an update at the moment
[05:23] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
[05:23] <sbalneav> MV getting closer!
[05:23] <nixternal> hola edubuntu, how many of you installed automatix or easyubuntu and broke your system doing a dist-upgrade to edgy?
[05:23] <nixternal> :D  <- here's to you!
[05:23] <LaserJock> sbalneav: yes it is
[05:24] <bimberi> nixternal: such empathy ;)
[05:24] <nixternal> hehe
[05:24] <sbalneav> nixternal: Is that what the issue is?
[05:24] <nixternal> 99.9% of the time it is
[05:24] <nixternal> because of all that binary non-meta, script cr4p
[05:24] <PurpleBlue> bimberi, I closed synaptic, and did same sudo line and it says, "Reading package lists... Done
[05:24] <PurpleBlue> Building dependency tree... Done
[05:24] <PurpleBlue> E: Couldn't find package gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
[05:24] <PurpleBlue> "
[05:24] <nixternal> multiverse enabling is needed
[05:25] <nixternal> hrmm, universe enabling rather
[05:25] <PurpleBlue> I checked all repositories prior.
[05:25] <sbalneav> Are the automatix or easyubuntu people 'fessing up? or staying suspiciously silent? :)
[05:25] <nixternal> staying silent
[05:26] <nixternal> that is why Ubuntu said no to utilizing it
[05:26] <nixternal> and instead want to incorporate everything, or close to everything that automatix does, just with viable metapackages
[05:26] <sbalneav> heh, isn't stopping Ubuntu from getting blamed :)
[05:26] <nixternal> it never does
[05:26] <LaserJock> of course not
[05:26] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: put your sources.list on a pastebin
[05:27] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: and tell us the link
[05:27] <nixternal> funny thing is, we, we being the Ubuntu community, get the same type of blaming and finger pointing that other super successful companies get, such as microsoft
[05:28] <nixternal> yesterday was Ubuntu Chicago LoCo meeting, and we had a ton of people who up, who were fed up with Ubuntu because of Edgy dist-upgrades, granted some didn't use automatix and what not, but still broke their computer...
[05:28] <nixternal> mostly due to binary nvidia or ati drivers, which is expected
[05:28] <sbalneav> Anyone heard this one? after edgy update, (otherwise successful) Launch firefox, it says "theres aready one running", when there isn't.  I've wiped out /tmp, and even deleted my .mozilla dir.  Still no joy. 
[05:29] <nixternal> that is why i don't use binary or ati drivers, if it isn't in the repos, and i must have it...it must be an amazing program
[05:29] <crimsun> sbalneav: does purging and reinstalling firefox resolve that?
[05:29] <nixternal> s/binary or ati/binary nvidia or ati
[05:29] <sbalneav> Havn't tried that yet.
[05:30] <sbalneav> So, I wonder where the root cause of the muckups are, with the upgrades.  It'd be nice to say to people, "here, fix this, this, and this before upgrades", because I don't think telling people "no, sorry, no codecs for you" is a solution.
[05:31] <PurpleBlue> bimberi, how I do that?
[05:31] <sbalneav> Personally, I think the codec part, at least, should be adopted by Ubuntu.
[05:31] <bimberi> !pastebin
[05:31] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[05:32] <LaserJock> sbalneav: it is
[05:32] <PurpleBlue> I know what pastebin is.  I am speaking about locating the file source.list so I can post that info.
[05:32] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: ^^
[05:32] <LaserJock> at least getting close
[05:32] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: oh sorry
[05:32] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:32] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I did a fresh install the other day and when I went to go play an .mp3 it offered to install the needed packages
[05:32] <LaserJock> sbalneav: took like 10 s and it did it all
[05:34] <PurpleBlue> bimberi, located it.  Now what is the comman in terminal to dislplay a files contents?
[05:36] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: do a 'sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list' 
[05:45] <PurpleBlue> bimberi, back.  Computer frooze for no reason.  Then it went to a 30 boot check .  And forced me to do a fsck then it rebooted, erorred again, then rebooted a 2nd time and let me back in.
[05:51] <PurpleBlue> bimberi, pastebin is not working.       Waiting, Waiting, waiting..  
[05:52] <PurpleBlue> deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[05:52] <PurpleBlue> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[05:52] <PurpleBlue> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted
[05:52] <PurpleBlue> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted
[05:52] <PurpleBlue> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security universe
[05:52] <PurpleBlue> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security universe
[05:54] <PurpleBlue> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper main restricted
[05:54] <PurpleBlue>    deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-updates main restricted
[05:54] <PurpleBlue> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-updates main restricted
[05:54] <PurpleBlue> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe main restricted
[05:54] <PurpleBlue> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe
[05:55] <PurpleBlue> Bimberi, I check all repositories in synaptic.
[06:03] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: what was the package with the error again?
[06:06] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: gstreamer0.10-pitfdll ?  (unfortunately i've lost the backscroll with the disconnect)
[06:06] <bimberi> !info gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
[06:06] <ubotu> gstreamer0.10-pitfdll: GStreamer plugin for using MS Windows binary codecs. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.1.1+cvs20060515-1 (edgy), package size 79 kB, installed size 260 kB (Only available for i386)
[06:06] <PurpleBlue> same here, I got rebooted
[06:07] <bimberi> !info gstreamer0.10-pitfdll dapper
[06:07] <ubotu> gstreamer0.10-pitfdll: GStreamer plugin for using MS Windows binary codecs. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.9.1.1+cvs20060312-0ubuntu3 (dapper), package size 79 kB, installed size 260 kB (Only available for i386)
[06:07] <bimberi> ah ha, it's in multiverse in dapper
[06:07] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: you need to add multiverse to all lines that have universe on them
[06:07] <PurpleBlue> i copied it back in and now it says.  sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse gxine libxine-main1 libxine-extracodecs
[06:07] <PurpleBlue> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
[06:08] <PurpleBlue> I have no idea what I am doing now.   :(
[06:08] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: try 'sudo apt-get -f install'
[06:08] <PurpleBlue> k
[06:09] <sbalneav> How in the heck did I ever get along without the deskbar applet?
[06:09] <PurpleBlue> sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse gxine libxine-main1 libxine-extracodecs
[06:09] <PurpleBlue> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
[06:09] <sbalneav> Especially since I can python script my own!
[06:09] <PurpleBlue> oops
[06:09] <PurpleBlue> sudo apt-get -f install
[06:09] <PurpleBlue> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
[06:09] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: righto
[06:09] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: 'sudo dpkg --configure -a'
[06:10] <PurpleBlue> sudo dpkg --configure -a
[06:10] <PurpleBlue> dpkg: error processing dia-libs (--configure):
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>  Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>  reinstall it before attempting configuration.
[06:10] <PurpleBlue> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of dia-gnome:
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>  dia-gnome depends on dia-common (= 0.95.0-4ubuntu1~dapper1); however:
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>   Version of dia-common on system is 0.94.0-17.1ubuntu3.
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>  dia-gnome depends on dia-libs (= 0.95.0-4ubuntu1~dapper1); however:
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>   Package dia-libs is not configured yet.
[06:10] <PurpleBlue> dpkg: error processing dia-gnome (--configure):
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
[06:10] <PurpleBlue> Errors were encountered while processing:
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>  dia-libs
[06:10] <PurpleBlue>  dia-gnome
[06:11] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure dia-libs'
[06:11] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: and paste a bit more selectively please :)
[06:11] <PurpleBlue> sudo dpkg-reconfigure dia-libs
[06:11] <PurpleBlue> /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: dia-libs is broken or not fully installed
[06:12] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: sudo apt-get install --reinstall dia-libs
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> bimberi, no says unmet dependcies. 
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> *nw
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> *now
[06:13] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: what dependencies?
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> sudo apt-get install --reinstall dia-libs
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> Reading package lists... Done
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> Building dependency tree... Done
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[06:13] <PurpleBlue>   dia-gnome: Depends: dia-common (= 0.95.0-4ubuntu1~dapper1) but 0.94.0-17.1ubuntu3 is to be installed
[06:13] <PurpleBlue> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
[06:15] <PurpleBlue> Bimberi, can you just like remote desktop over and I give you control?
[06:15] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: ok, this pastebin seems to work - http://pastebin.ca/ - please put your sources.list on there
[06:15] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: not atm, i'm on very slow dialup
[06:18] <PurpleBlue> http://pastebin.ca/228655
[06:20] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: do you need the backports repositories?
[06:22] <tensor> hello, i've setup an edubuntu with ltsp 
[06:22] <PurpleBlue> I dont know what backports where, and I asked in the channel and no one responded. So before I went to update Totem I enable all repositories to be sure.
[06:22] <tensor> i can successfully connect from a desktop client, however, my laptop can't seem to connect and dies while "mounting the root filesystem...."
[06:23] <tensor> please help!
[06:23] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: ok, i would comment them out (lines 25,26), change line 15 to have "us.archive.ubuntu.com" and add multiverse to all lines with universe on them (lines 15,16,30,31)
[06:24] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: save the file and run 'sudo apt-get update', then see if "sudo apt-get -f install" works
[06:24] <PurpleBlue> bimberi is ebuntu usually this much of a head ache?
[06:25] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: depends :)  no, i'm kidding, it isn't usually
[06:25] <PurpleBlue> bimberi, that what it my deal?  I am I just a ex Winblows dumb ass?
[06:26] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: in your case there does seems to be some issues with how dia has been installed\
[06:28] <tensor> bimberi, thanks anyway :D
[06:29] <PurpleBlue> like tihs? deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper multiverse universe main restricted
[06:30] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: yep
[06:31] <PurpleBlue> Now how do I save the file since it is read only?
[06:31] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: did you use 'sudo gedit ...' ?
[06:32] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: if not, run that from another terminal and copy/paste across
[06:32] <PurpleBlue> no, I used nautilus and click on the file
[06:32] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: ok, leave that open and do this ...
[06:33] <PurpleBlue> is this better? before I save it http://pastebin.ca/228673
[06:33] <bimberi> alt-F2 (opens a Run Application window) and use it to run the command:  sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
[06:33] <bimberi> oh, nvm :)
[06:33] <bimberi> looking
[06:34] <PurpleBlue> I deleted those 2 backport lines like you wanted
[06:35] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: yes that looks good
[06:35] <PurpleBlue> k
[06:36] <PurpleBlue> I did sudo gedit and saved
[06:37] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: great, now run 'sudo apt-get update', then see if "sudo apt-get -f install" works
[06:38] <PurpleBlue> Reading package lists... Done
[06:38] <PurpleBlue> W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper/multiverse Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_dapper_multiverse_binary-amd64_Packages)
[06:38] <PurpleBlue> W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://security.ubuntu.com dapper-security/multiverse Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_dapper-security_multiverse_binary-amd64_Packages)
[06:38] <PurpleBlue> W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
[06:38] <PurpleBlue> m@m-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get -f install
[06:38] <PurpleBlue> Reading package lists... Done
[06:38] <PurpleBlue> Building dependency tree... Done
[06:38] <PurpleBlue> E: The package dia-libs needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it.
[06:39] <bimberi> PurpleBlue: whatthe? i can't see that duplicate entry
[06:40] <bimberi> ... on the pastebin
[06:41] <PurpleBlue> http://pastebin.ca/228684
[06:41] <PurpleBlue> *cant
[06:42] <bimberi> !info dia-libs dapper
[06:42] <ubotu> dia-libs: Diagram editor (library files). In component main, is optional. Version 0.94.0-17.1ubuntu3 (dapper), package size 535 kB, installed size 1668 kB
[07:05] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: morning
[07:05] <edubuntugirl> salut, highvoltage!
[10:20] <edubuntugirl> hello cbx33 :)
[10:22] <cbx33> hello edubuntugirl 
[10:22] <edubuntugirl> heya, cbx33!
[10:22] <cbx33> anyone know what this is about Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed
[10:27] <highvoltage> cbx33: where do you get that message?
[10:28] <cbx33> when I run an init script
[10:28] <cbx33> for mythtv backend
[10:53] <cbx33> highvoltage: any thoughts?
[11:00] <highvoltage> cbx33: well, it complains about authentication. do you know what it might be trying to authentcate against?
[11:00] <highvoltage> cbx33: if you can find that out, then you could check the logs of the appropriate service
[11:02] <ogra> it tries to run any kind of X app on a X DISPLAY thats not owned by that user
[11:18] <highvoltage> ogra: good morning. has someone responded to CatherineCapers? should I?
[11:18] <ogra> if you like to
[11:18] <highvoltage> ok
[11:19] <ogra> tell him that NBD_SWAP is enabled by default on new installs ;)
[11:19] <ogra> and point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT :)
[11:19] <highvoltage> ok, thanks for the tips
[11:20] <highvoltage> I thought it was strange that his NDB wasn't enabled.
[11:20] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: nat
[11:20] <edubuntugirl> highvoltage: I'm not following you...
[11:20] <ogra> well, might be an upgrade problem ...
[11:20] <ogra> i didnt see it here, but you never know
[11:21] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: nat is <reply> For NAT on an Edubuntu Server, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT
[11:21] <edubuntugirl> highvoltage: daar's hy
[11:21] <highvoltage> eek, edubuntugirl still knows some Afrikaans :)
[11:21] <ogra> ever heard of http://www.2x.com/
[11:21] <ogra> ?
[11:22] <highvoltage> yep
[11:23] <ogra> they seem to reimplement NX
[11:23] <ogra> based on the free parts of the NX code
[11:23] <highvoltage> it seemed very similar to nx last time I looked
[11:23] <ogra> right
[11:24] <ogra> what i hope is that they reimplement it without the broken evil parts :)
[11:24] <highvoltage> that would be cool.
[11:24] <ogra> s/reimplement/reimplemented/
[11:25] <highvoltage> they currently boot using pxes, would be nice if they could use an ubuntu base one day. the ubuntu ltsp chroot is quite close to pxes these days, isn't it?
[11:25] <ogra> yep
[11:25] <ogra> well, i'd love to package it if they have gotten rid of the xlibs duplication issues
[11:25] <ogra> i'll look into it 
[11:26] <ogra> would be nice to have optional NX support in ltsp
[11:45] <highvoltage> yep
[11:46] <highvoltage> there seems to be demand for it especially in the richer countries where people want to log in to their session at school from home.
[12:15] <pips1> On the weekend, I finally managed to do an server upgrade test. During the upgrade, I was asked some questions. I don't think normal users really know what to choose, so it would be great to document this somewhere... 
[12:17] <pips1> I was asked 1. Replace /etc/login.defs 2. What would you like to do about exports? /etc/exports 3. Replace etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf' 
[12:18] <ogra> 3 is intresting
[12:18] <ogra> did you say yes ?
[12:19] <pips1> I chose 1. Replace it 2. Keep it (since the new version only added some stuff in commented lines) 3. Replace it. However, I don't know if these were actually the right choices. I need to test the server more.. but so far, the system seems to run quite ok. (Printing doesn't seem to work)
[12:21] <ogra> did you set it up in lts.conf ?
[12:21] <pips1> Note, for "3. Replace etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf", I chose replace it, but then I had to manually change the IP addresses in dhcpd.conf again, since my setup uses 192.168.1.2 on the server, rather than 192.168.0.x... (with only *one* NIC)
[12:22] <ogra> it doesnt work out of the box
[12:22] <pips1> Did I set up what in lts.conf? I didn't touch lts.conf so far, I think..
[12:23] <ogra> well, oyu need to set up printing like in classic ltsp
[12:24] <ogra> PRINTER_0_DEVICE=/dev/usblp0 in lts.conf for a specific client who has an usb printer attached for example
[12:24] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: start my test upgrade timer
[12:24] <edubuntugirl> Okay, highvoltage!
[12:24] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: stop my test upgrade timer
[12:24] <edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Your timer has been running for 9 seconds
[12:25] <jsgotangco> hello
[12:25] <highvoltage> cool.
[12:25] <highvoltage> hi jsgotangco 
[12:25] <jsgotangco> oh boy are the forums being smacked now
[12:25] <jsgotangco> because of the upgrade thing
[12:25] <pips1> oh, sorry, I didn't mean printing from a thin client. I haven't tried/tested that. I wasn't able to print from my printer connected to the server. So I suppose that would be an *ubuntu* but rather than anything edubuntu specific. Sorry for the confusion.
[12:26] <pips1> jsgotangco: yeah.. :-/
[12:26] <highvoltage> the upgrade thing is a mess
[12:27] <ogra> pips1, right
[12:27] <highvoltage> heno is right, users will always customise their system. the upgrade manager should really do a sanity heck first.
[12:27] <pips1> I looks like this was the first release that *lots* of people actually tried an upgrade?
[12:27] <pips1> s/I/it/
[12:28] <ogra> no, but newspapers and online news sites all promote stuff like automatix
[12:28] <ogra> or easyubuntu
[12:28] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:28] <ogra> we warn users sincer hoary not to use these
[12:30] <highvoltage> ogra: even though you're correct, an upgrade tool should still check if it's safe to upgrade before doing so
[12:30] <ogra> it does several checks
[12:30] <pips1> well, even a "clean" upgrade isn't really that easy. I mean, I found it quite tricky and not very user-friendly. E.g. see "Strange upgrade behaviour from Dapper to Edgy" https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+bug/67133
[12:30] <ogra> but if people for example use th ePLF repo which is down now ... they will run into probs we cant cover
[12:31] <pips1> ePLF ?
[12:31] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: it'll be us running the rat race if that happens
[12:31] <highvoltage> Penguin Liberation Front
[12:31] <highvoltage> pips1: was an archive for .debs that you couldn't get in debian/ubuntu
[12:31] <pips1> oh
[12:32] <jsgotangco> well your system won't get borked if you just get codecs
[12:32] <jsgotangco> other codecs that is
[12:32] <jsgotangco> but the problem is some people install apps that trashes dependencies 
[12:33] <pips1> how do the trash dependencies?
[12:34] <ogra> the server doesnt exist atm
[12:34] <ogra> that trashes downloads ---
[12:34] <pips1> oic
[12:37] <pips1> one of the errors I got during my upgrade was installArchives() failed after ERROR got an error from dpkg for pkg: 'nfs-kernel-server': 'subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 137
[12:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi all :)
[12:37] <pips1> hi Kamping
[12:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[12:39] <pips1> The thing is, "ms conditioned" users aren't used to explicit error messages, so when suddenly you get tons of output, you think "omg, is *anything* working at all? this thing looks completely broken!"
[12:40] <rodarvus> hi guys :)
[12:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi rodarvus 
[12:40] <rodarvus> just noticed this arriving on my mailbox
[12:40] <rodarvus> "Hello,
[12:40] <rodarvus> The status of Jerome S. Gotangco membership on team "edubuntu" (Edubuntu)
[12:40] <rodarvus> was changed from Approved to Expired."
[12:40] <pips1> heh
[12:40] <rodarvus> heh, funny stuff :)
[12:40] <ogra> yeah, expiration works :)
[12:41] <rodarvus> I wonder if his subscription was set to one or two (already?!) years
[12:41] <ogra> i think that was a very early subscription where we didnt have expiratiojn working at all
[12:42] <ogra> i think it was set to a 1 year default in the beginning ...
[12:42] <ogra> later we decided for 2 years
[12:43] <^Ghost2U> mornin' all
[12:47] <pips1> hmm Amaranth suggests aptitude instead of apt-get for dist-upgrading http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1324800&postcount=9
[12:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> i was under the impression aptitude was the only offically supported way. *shrug*
[12:49] <highvoltage> pips1: I don't think he's suggesting aptitude for ubuntu, he's pointing out that debian suggests aptitude, so people expect it to work in Ubuntu too
[12:49] <pips1> highvoltage: right
[12:49] <highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: the problem is that a lot of people also thought so.
[12:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> ah
[12:50] <pips1> Kamping_Kaiser: I don't know about the "official" way, but I saw https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdgyUpgrades and that only mentions 'update-manager' and 'apt-get'
[12:51] <jsgotangco> gksu update-manager -c
[12:51] <jsgotangco> and apt-get dist-upgrade done twice for servers
[12:54] <ogra> nobody in the distro team uses aptitude afaik 
[12:54] <pips1> I had also read the following post http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=185467 and decided to follow the advice about disabling screen saver, disabling non-official repos, etc. That forum post is for breezy->dapper though, so people won't read it now anymore.
[12:54] <jsgotangco> well the distro uses aptitude during setup afaik hehehe
[12:54] <ogra> d-i uses it as backend, yes
[12:55] <jsgotangco> so its probably a saner way to do it
[12:55] <ogra> but thats likely to go away at some point as well
[12:55] <pips1> interesting
[12:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> stop using aptitude?
[12:55] <jsgotangco> but then, we've been going through this upgrade thing since hoary
[12:55] <ogra> jsgotangco, right
[12:56] <ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, up to you ...
[12:56] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser: eventually it'll be like dselect
[12:56] <jsgotangco> it'll be all up to you
[12:56] <pips1> question: I've been really blown away by the upgrade. I mean: it's so cool to be able to upgrade your os and (supported) apps in one go...
[12:57] <jsgotangco> well its pretty much a gui-fied manager on text mode
[12:57] <jsgotangco> pips1: doesn't windows also do that tee hee
[12:58] <jsgotangco> its pretty until it says "your drivers are borked for this upgrade"
[12:58] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:59] <pips1> ahh, here is my question: how does upgrading work for ms? I've been told that you can install a new windows version *over* an old one and it's supposed to keep your settings intact... However, that windows admin also told me he doesn't trust it works. Does anyone have more info about this?
[01:00] <jsgotangco> pips1: well based on my experience before on 2k -> XP. its pretty sane, it checks beforehand on what will work and what won't and tell you what to do
[01:00] <jsgotangco> XP pretty much checks for unsigned drivers as well nowadays but its pretty easy to just ignore it
[01:01] <pips1> ic
[01:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> and everyone i know does
[01:01] <jsgotangco> if you got one of those no-name devices from taiwan, they're most likely unsigned
[01:01] <jsgotangco> and they just say in the manual to "ignore it"
[01:01] <highvoltage> heh
[01:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> or any new nvidia driver...
[01:01] <jsgotangco> right
[01:03] <jsgotangco> oh gnome.org will be using plone
[01:04] <highvoltage> I like plone, but people who use it nearly always end up in tears somehow.
[01:04] <jsgotangco> i do at the moment
[01:04] <jsgotangco> hehe
[01:04] <highvoltage> it seems to work real great for FSF
[01:04] <jsgotangco> i sometimes cry over iosn.net
[01:05] <jsgotangco> its probably i just dont know what im doing most of the time
[01:05] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:07] <pips1> plone never really worked for me as a site visitor.. !
[01:07] <jsgotangco> pips1: yeah that's pretty common
[01:07] <highvoltage> cool, edubuntu is listed on http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/footware.shtml
[01:08] <jsgotangco> nice!
[01:11] <paolob-parroquia> Hi guys! the page about upgrading edubuntu to edgy https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdgyReleaseNotes doesn't say (in the apt-get section) I have to rebuild the ltsp chroot tree. Is it true or wrong?
[01:11] <pips1> oh, btw, ogra when I did my amd64 server dist-upgrade, I tried sudo ltsp-build-client initially, and that failed completely. Since my thin clients are i386, I re-tried it with 'ltsp-build-client --arch i386' and that worked. Have you tested a amd64 server dist-upgrade yourself yet?
[01:12] <ogra> no, but the above is the right way to do it
[01:12] <paolob-parroquia> ogra, then that page is to actualize, isn't it?
[01:12] <ogra> (you could as well chroot into the client env and run apt-get dist-upgrade though)
[01:13] <paolob-parroquia> s/actualize/correct/
[01:13] <ogra> paolob-parroquia, well, it should probably be on a EdubuntuEdgyUpgrade notes page or something
[01:13] <ogra> that wikipage you pointed to is for general ubuntu ...
[01:14] <pips1> paolob-parroquia: the following wiki page helped me: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
[01:15] <pips1> ^^^ but there should probably be an updated page for the dapper -> edgy ltsp upgrade
[01:15] <ogra> right
[01:15] <ogra> and for the upgrading procedure ltspfsd should be installed in the new chroot so you get localdevs working ...
[01:16] <ogra> its only pulled in from ltsp-build-client, but nothing depends on it yet so upgrades wont pull it in
[01:17] <jsgotangco> we should really get our act on these upgrade notes for edubuntu like a month before release
[01:17] <ogra> yeah
[01:17] <ogra> make some more docteam members :)
[01:18] <jsgotangco> how about we try doing something for every development milestone?
[01:18] <jsgotangco> just to get it going
[01:19] <ogra> phew
[01:19] <ogra> thats a lot of work
[01:19] <ogra> but we'll have rock solid upgrade notes then indeed
[01:19] <ogra> i'm just worried about the manpower that burns
[01:19] <jsgotangco> i dunno how it'll prosper, documentation has always been a casual contribution space
[01:20] <jsgotangco> i was just thinking, for feisty, I'll just concentrate on release notes
[01:20] <jsgotangco> or something like that
[01:20] <jsgotangco> nothing more
[01:20] <ogra> yeah, edubuntu sucks if it comes to docs
[01:20] <ogra> or better i suck at packaging -doc packages ?
[01:22] <jsgotangco> oh i dunno you're already swamped being our dearl LTSP product manager
[01:24] <paolob-parroquia> ogra, but Mark wouldn't pay a person to work on edubuntu docs?
[01:24] <pips1> heh, good question 
[01:24] <ogra> unlikely
[01:24] <ogra> he doesnt pay anyone for ubuntu docs ...
[01:25] <ogra> why should he do so for a (even official) derivative
[01:25] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:26] <cbx33> hi all
[01:26] <jsgotangco> we had a good one on docs during dapper
[01:26] <paolob-parroquia> ogra, another question, where should I modify so that ltsp-build-client use a apt-cacher proxy? because I have to edubuntu servers and I need saving bandwidth
[01:26] <jsgotangco> withougt being paid
[01:26] <cbx33> ogra: about that question I posed earlier ......the script was an init script being run by root
[01:27] <ogra> well, it tries to start any kind of X app 
[01:27] <cbx33> is there any way I can prevent it from showing....
[01:27] <cbx33> I'm trying to run a mythtv box - I know not scrictly edubuntu...but it is on edubuntu
[01:28] <jsgotangco> mythtv eekkk
[01:28] <cbx33> and it's for teaching purposes
[01:28] <cbx33> I'm trying to start the mythtv-backend
[01:29] <ogra> well, might be that it tries to stqart mythtv-setup, no idea
[01:29] <cbx33> ok
[01:29] <jsgotangco> hmm why does lp say im expred in edubuntu
[01:30] <jsgotangco> ah its the old team
[01:30] <ogra> jsgotangco, because we dont want you anymore :P
[01:30] <jsgotangco> *sniff*
[01:30] <ogra> i think its because the expiration code was still experimental when we created the edubuntu team :)
[01:30] <ogra> and initially didnt set a default or did set it to 1 year
[01:34] <jsgotangco> everyday we live on the edge with lp
[01:34] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:34] <ogra> yeah
[01:35] <paolob-parroquia> ogra, what about using ltsp-build-client with the apt-cacher proxy?
[01:35] <ogra> arent you even admin of the team ?
[01:35] <ogra> dunno, i never used apt-proxy
[01:35] <ogra> but you will need to set it up like you do on the server
[01:35] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ....
[01:35] <ogra> make your edits ...
[01:36] <ogra> hit ctrl -d
[01:36] <ogra> oh, and for ltsp-build-client use the --mirror option ;)
[01:38] <paolob-parroquia> but does ltsp-build-client use information stored in the chroot?
[01:41] <RichEd> hi ogra, jsgotangco, paolob-parroquia cbx33
[01:41] <RichEd> I've just scrolled back to the thread above regarding documentation ...
[01:41] <paolob-parroquia> hi RichEd 
[01:41] <RichEd> willvdl should be taking over a role as coordinator of edubuntu documentation, making sure that:
[01:41] <RichEd> 1. all of the docs are consistent across web-site, wiki, handbook, promo material etc.
[01:41] <RichEd> 2. setting up a process flow for what is needed when
[01:41] <RichEd> I'll make sure to let him know that he should document the release requirements and release process to make sure we prepare what is needed each time - and well in advance
[01:41] <jsgotangco> RichEd: good day to you!
[01:41] <edubuntugirl> RichEd: *ahem*
[01:41] <jsgotangco> RichEd: its your call goodluck
[01:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi RichEd 
[01:44] <RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser 
[01:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[01:46] <jsgotangco> RichEd: just remember that documentation has always been a "casual" contribution space and you can't rely much on commitments most of the time
[01:49] <RichEd> jsgotangco: 100% understood and agreed ... we are very lucky to have volunteers who have helped with it thus far ... but I think it is becoming more critical than an "optional item".
[01:50] <RichEd> The idea then is for willvdl to formally draw up requirements and proceses, and for us to match what we have or can do at the moment, and the requirements, and do a GAP analysis. We need to know where we have holes, and what the consequences are. If they are severe, we (canonical) need to find a way to address them.
[01:52] <RichEd> I'm hoping that as we expand the community numbers, we will find more volunteer effort, but if that is not enough, then we need to be the one that lets the "purse holders" know about the risks.
[01:52] <RichEd> then I need to be the one <- correction
[01:53] <RichEd> ogra: you all set for the ltsp conf ?
[01:53] <ogra> you mean if i will bring my brain to SF ?
[01:54] <ogra> i was plannins so, yes :)
[01:54] <ogra> *planning
[01:54] <RichEd> when do you disappear into the ltsp conference ... will we see you at the edubuntu meeting on wednesday ?
[01:54] <ogra> nope
[01:55] <ogra> i'll be on plane then 
[01:55] <ogra> i'll fly out wednesday moring ... (12h flight)
[01:55] <RichEd> okay
[01:57] <RichEd> From the UDS schedule, I see that I've got the same flight as you from Frankfurt, but mine is on Saturday. I've got a 12 hour flight to get to Frankfurt before that.
[01:57] <jsgotangco> RichEd: imho you (canonical) is better off on having some professional on this regard, after all, it spends money on art
[01:58] <pips1> RichEd: is the UDS online somewhere? link?
[01:59] <ogra> jsgotangco, thats a myth
[01:59] <pips1> *UDS schedule
[01:59] <ogra> we dont spend money on art
[01:59] <jsgotangco> oh?
[01:59] <RichEd> jsgotangco: That is the gist of my comments above. It would be a crime to have the technical work & software production done by ogra and his "team" let down because of insufficient documentation.
[01:59] <RichEd> But I agree with ogra and the art comment.
[02:00] <jsgotangco> are you saying dapper's artwork (chalkboard) was just volunteer
[02:00] <pips1> ogra: who is doing the cd sleaves? that isn't community artwork, is it?
[02:00] <ogra> the art stuff is all done on a voluntary base ... only some parts are outsourced to a arts company
[02:00] <jsgotangco> that's what i meant
[02:00] <ogra> pips1, nope
[02:00] <ogra> jsgotangco, ahh ...
[02:00] <jsgotangco> some parts are outsourced
[02:00] <jsgotangco> im not saying everyting
[02:01] <jsgotangco> sorry
[02:01] <ogra> what i meant was that the artteam guys dont get paied
[02:01] <RichEd> There is an agency that looks at "branding & image" stuff, but they are only available to head office ... not the software / art teams
[02:02] <jsgotangco> for all its worth, i still think you should allocate a substantial budget to have something delivered with high expectations
[02:02] <RichEd> And by agency, I mean one person on a part time retainer ... so it is not a big company expense or focus.
[02:02] <cbx33> jsgotangco: I kinda agree
[02:02] <pips1> Can I have a look at the UDS schedule somewhere?
[02:02] <cbx33> Edubuntu never gets funding for artwork
[02:02] <RichEd> pips1: let me wrap this thread, and I'll check for you
[02:03] <cbx33> apart from last release
[02:03] <RichEd> jsgotangco: Again, as per my comments above, I agree, but the first step is to do the requirements and gap analysis.
[02:03] <cbx33> if you know what I mean
[02:03] <jsgotangco> if you notice on the background of d-i, you get *tons* of errors on the xml
[02:03] <RichEd> And then a risk againast the gap.
[02:03] <jsgotangco> but they are not really critical, only annoying on the background
[02:04] <jsgotangco> they do not affect the overall appearance of the product but it shows there lacked QA on testing the actualy documentation tech-wise
[02:04] <RichEd> There may be creative ways to address the requirements, but until we can quantify them and the impact on software adoption / user happiness, we cannot just go and say we have a need for funded documentation.
[02:05] <jsgotangco> well the easiest is have someone external review them
[02:05] <jsgotangco> and still retain the voluntary part for documentation
[02:06] <jsgotangco> our svn currenly has all the revisions we need to make some sort of quantitative analysis
[02:06] <jsgotangco> and probably our bugs in lp
[02:06] <jsgotangco> but that's just my opinion :)
[02:07] <jsgotangco> and its pretty much overall, not edubuntu specific
[02:07] <jsgotangco> (sorry for OT)
[02:13] <ogra> pips1, the schedule is made dynamically every morning
[02:13] <ogra> based on the specs and subscriptions to them
[02:13] <jsgotangco> lp-o-matic magic
[02:14] <ogra> (things without specs wont be scheduled)
[02:14] <pips1> ogra: since the schedule is work in progress, it isn't linked on the official UDS MV wiki page, but do you have an URL where I can see the developing schedule?
[02:15] <ogra> pips1, it will be generated on at the first morning
[02:15] <ogra> it gets generated *every* morning
[02:15] <ogra> there is no schedule in advance
[02:16] <ogra> LP chacks the specs every day (to catch the progress) and generates it newly)
[02:16] <ogra> s/every day/every morning/
[02:16] <ogra> thats why its so important to have a spec for *everything you want to discuss
[02:16] <ogra> else you wont get a slot for discussin it
[02:18] <RichEd> ogra: Is there a way to view all proposed MV spec discussion topics from LP ?
[02:19] <jsgotangco> its at the meeting tracker
[02:20] <ogra> https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+specs
[02:20] <jsgotangco> https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv
[02:21] <pips1> *click*
[02:21] <RichEd> thanks both
[02:32] <pips1> hmm, I'm seeing minor glitches on the upgraded edubuntu. The logging-in-sound is clipped
[02:34] <pips1> false alarm, the batteries of my external amp are dead!
[02:34] <pips1> pffft
[02:40] <pips1> ogra: as far as I know, printing support got a lot of love in Edgy, right?
[02:40] <pips1> I mean for ubuntu in general
[02:41] <pips1> however, it seems that the printer driver doesn't get upgraded, but you need to de- and re-install the printer
[02:41] <pips1> ^^local printer on the server
[02:48] <cberl1> Anyone able to give me a hand upgrading a 6.06 Edubuntu to 6.10?  I can't seem to get the ltsp-build-client part to work -- I get a message about not being able to link /dev/fd because it already exists (I've run the script a couple times now) and it exits abnormally.
[02:49] <cberl1> Trying the script again right now to get the exact message...
[02:56] <cberl1> Okay, exact as I can type, the messages are:  "leaving 'diversion of /etc/mtab to /etc/mtab.real by ltsp-client' \ 'opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list' -> '/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list.old' \ ln: creating symbolic link '/dev/fd' to '/proc/self/fd': file exists \ error:  LTSP client installation ended abnormally"
[02:58] <pips1> cberl1: what is your server hardware? i386 or amd64?
[02:58] <cberl1> i386
[02:59] <pips1> i see, hmm, sorry can't really help about your problem :-/
[03:00] <cberl1> going to try again before hosing the system and restarting from an Edubuntu 6.10 install disk.  Hoping I don't have to do that because then I have to migrate everything I have on my production server to this "new" server.  PITA factor.... 
[03:01] <monchi> Good Morning
[03:02] <cberl1> Just to verify, LTSP *does* work in the new setup, right?  :)
[03:02] <pips1> I ran into trouble during the ltsp-build-client step. But I have amd64 server with i386 thin clients. so I re-did the step with specifying the architecture explicitely (sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386), and then it worked
[03:02] <highvoltage> cberl1: of course it does
[03:03] <cberl1> highvoltage: I figured as much.  Didn't figure it would be a hassle to upgrade, though.  It's a bit unnerving.
[03:03] <monchi> Anybody have been able to set different profiles (desktops) on the workstation Ubuntu?
[03:03] <cberl1> Fresh 6.06 install, migrating directly to 6.10
[03:03] <highvoltage> cberl1: unfortunately, yes :-/
[03:04] <cberl1> monchi: Yes and no.  I know the way I did it was not exactly the standard way.  I understand Pessulus and Sabayan are involved in the usual way.
[03:04] <pips1> cberl1: what is the hassle (besides that the ltsp-build-client fails, of course)?
[03:05] <cberl1> pips1: That would be about it.  And given that this is a terminal server, that would be a bit of a problem, wouldn't it?  :)
[03:05] <monchi> cberl1: I am trying to understand why something that simple before is so complex now.  I just one of my users have mozilla when he logs in
[03:05] <pips1> cberl1: right, sure
[03:05] <monchi> cberl1: easily done on regular Debian 
[03:06] <cberl1> monchi: how would you do it on Debian?  Should work the same way, shouldn't it?
[03:06] <monchi> cberl1: I would use a WindowManager not Gnome 
[03:07] <cberl1> monchi: are you making a "kiosk" kind of setup?
[03:07] <monchi> cberl1: Then would control it with a local Xsession. My point is that this should have been covered on this distribution
[03:08] <monchi> actually
[03:08] <monchi> this link https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDynamicMenus has details on edubuntu to do it.  But I can't find the package
[03:08] <monchi> and I am actually using Ubuntu
[03:11] <pips1> monchi: I'm not quite sure about what you are trying to achieve.. 
[03:12] <monchi> pips1: You set a workstation that is limited to Mozilla browser on the desktop. Anything else is not available for this specific user
[03:13] <monchi> pips1: if you log in with another user... you may have a different "profile"
[03:13] <pips1> monchi: and you used to do this how in pure debian?
[03:13] <ogra> cberl1, did you follow https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes ?
[03:13] <cberl1> Okay, I'll let Edubuntu off the hook for this strange error I've been getting.  Blowing away all of /opt/ltsp and re-running the script worked fine.  I'm going to guess it's network issues around here that were causing the problem.  About to test the thin client in a moment, and my guess is it will work just fine....  :)  Now, any suggestions on getting OpenMosix to work with that?
[03:13] <cberl1> ogra: Of course.  :)
[03:13] <monchi> profile setups .. 
[03:14] <ogra> pips1, no idea whats done about printing in ubuntu, sorry, i only cared for ltsp printing 
[03:14] <ogra> cberl1, and you properly deleted the old directory ?
[03:15] <cberl1> ogra: The first time, yes.  Then something probably went haywire with our network (that happens sometimes!) so I assumed that it wasn't working right.  My apologies for the wrong assumption.
[03:16] <ogra> cberl1, btw: mount /cdrom && sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom 
[03:16] <ogra> its a lot faster (if you have the CD around anyway)
[03:17] <pips1> monchi: the feature from the page you mentioned (EdubuntuDynamicMenus) is not fully done, as far as I know, there is a specification for the upcoming Feisty https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-menus-completion
[03:17] <pips1> :)
[03:17] <cberl1> ogra: That was half the problem -- downloading the CD from here has been nightmarishly slow (<10K/sec).  I think our packet filter had something to do with it, but it could also be the intermittent traffic caused by  thousands of kids attacking th enet...
[03:18] <monchi> pips1, okay thanks.  I thought it was implemented and added to the Universal repository
[03:19] <cberl1> ogra: so basically, when I upgrade the live server, I should use the CD to kick things off and things will work fine?
[03:20] <ogra> cberl1, if you already have the CD there, its a lot faster, yes
[03:20] <ogra> afaik the cd has a cdromupgrade script in the top level dir you should be able to run
[03:20] <cberl1> Alrighty then.  Patience in downloading the CD will make me a much happier camper than having anything go wrong updating the live server.
[03:21] <cberl1> ogra: When you pop in the CD, that's the notice about "Ubuntu CD has been inserted" or something to that effect, right?
[03:21] <ogra> right
[03:22] <pips1> cberl1: yes, and there *is* a cdromupgrade on the cd, as ogra mentioned :)
[03:22] <pips1> *cdromupgrade script
[03:23] <cberl1> Half my problem is probably that I got interrupted part way through this upgrade process.  As usual, excellent work, guys!  I really appreciate the amount of work that goes into the Ubuntu distribution and the feedback mechanisms you have in place!
[03:24] <cberl1> ogra:  is there no default lts.conf installed upon upgrade?  I don't see it...
[03:25] <ogra> its installed by edubuntu-artwork (which holds all themes and settings)
[03:25] <ogra> if you want to force it:
[03:25] <ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork
[03:25] <cberl1> thanks
[03:25] <ogra> that will put it in place for post installations  ...
[03:28] <cberl1> ogra: As you may recall, I'm not running the standard ldm stuff due to pam_mount issues.  Should the local devices, printing, etc. work properly without that, or do I need to find out how to get pam_mount to work with ldm?
[03:30] <ogra> no, thlocaldev wont work without ldm
[03:30] <sbalneav> Morning all!
[03:30] <ogra> we'll attack that foe xdmcp in feisty
[03:30] <sbalneav> Morning ogra!
[03:30] <sbalneav> What are we attacking?
[03:30] <ogra> lda
[03:30] <ogra> on xdmcp
[03:31] <sbalneav> Attacked, and vanquished this weekend :)
[03:31] <ogra> .oO(wow, we're at a point where i can start speaking in acronyms)
[03:31] <sbalneav> Was looking for you yesterday :)
[03:31] <ogra> what was up ?
[03:32] <cberl1> then I guess I'll let you know how it works out for me... :)
[03:32] <ogra> dressing up for UDS :)
[03:32] <sbalneav> I got the event communication going over xproperties, which works in both places.  If you've got an ssh session, then the info's encrypted.  If it's xdmcp, then it's just straight X.
[03:32] <ogra> yay
[03:32] <sbalneav> I'll demo it down at LTSP/UDS
[03:32] <ogra> yeah
[03:32] <ogra> looking forward to it :)
[03:33] <ogra> so no dbus needed, eh ? 
[03:33] <sbalneav> I'm going to bring a thin client, keyb, mouse and screen with me.
[03:33] <ogra> cool
[03:33] <ogra> dunno if we'll have an ubuntu love day this time 
[03:33] <ogra> else we could demo it a bit :)
[03:34] <sbalneav> Well, you can do it WITHOUT dbus, in the long run, rather than this thing calling things directly, it could simply read the X props, and issue dbus messages, but that's for Grubby Groundhog. :)
[03:34] <cberl1> Okay, now on to the next issue:  at thin client boot, it's giving me:  Loading hardware drivers:  failed and it has a message about not finding /lib/modules/.../modules.dep ...
[03:35] <ogra> hwere does the filename directive in your dhcpd.conf point to ?
[03:35] <ogra> it should be: filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
[03:35] <sbalneav> cberl1: That sounds like a kernel issue, yeah, where's your kernel booting from.
[03:36] <cberl1> it's /ltsp/pxelinux.0
[03:36] <cberl1> Lemme look at that....
[03:36] <ogra> ah, just change it to /ltsp/i386
[03:37] <ogra> and dont forget to restart the ddhcpd
[03:37] <cberl1> You're good.  :)  Rebooting and waiting for things to happen again....
[03:38] <cberl1> Hey, graphical boot on TC, very nice!
[03:39] <ogra> sounds good
[03:39] <cberl1> ogra:  working perfectly once again.  This is something I can replicate.  But I do still have the issue of not being able to use both pam_mount and ldm...
[03:39] <ogra> well, what do you need from pam_mount ? 
[03:40] <ogra> do you want the homedir mounted on the server ?
[03:40] <ogra> that should be possible to set up in the pam config (even though i dont know how)
[03:40] <cberl1> ogra: basically, yes.  I need to mount their "home drive" and some common school shares (clipart, extra apps, etc)
[03:40] <ogra> right, ssh uses pam for logging in
[03:41] <cberl1> it's that last part that's the critical ("even though i dont know how") -- seems I can't get the "recipe" right to get that working.
[03:41] <ogra> so it should be possible to configure that on the server
[03:41] <ogra> we'll look into a edubuntu-directory server for feisty, so i'll address that soon, but currently i'm not a pam specialist
[03:42] <cberl1> I've read that is can be done with a flavour of SSH for Debian, so in theory nothing is impossible.  I'll just have to play with this test box and get our Net guys to give me the same kind of accesses...
[03:42] <cberl1> Thanks for getting me this far.
[03:43] <pips1> ogra: what is the correct command to restart the dhcpd in the server?
[03:43] <ogra> if you find a proper way to implement it, please wiki it or something, so we can consider it for the directory server stuff :)
[03:43] <ogra> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
[03:43] <pips1> ta!
[03:43] <cberl1> Absolutely!  You'll be the first to know!
[03:43] <ogra> anyway, got to go shopping ... else GF gets angry
[03:44] <pips1> go go go
[03:44] <pips1> :)
[03:44] <cberl1> ogra: by all means, DON'T anger the GF!  :)
[03:44] <pips1> :-)
[03:45] <ogra> cberl1, she's angry enough because i travel so much next month :)
[03:45] <ogra> i wont put oil into the fire ;)
[03:45] <pips1> same here :-D
[03:46] <pips1> but you are travelling even more
[03:47] <nlindblad> evening
[03:48] <ogra> pips1, right, i wont be back before nov 25th 
[03:48] <nlindblad> is it possible to use the LTSP shipped with Dapper for 1280x1024 on the clients?
[03:48] <ogra> and i'm flying out on nov 1st
[03:49] <ogra> nlindblad, yes, but you got the solution in #ltsp already ...
[03:49] <nlindblad> ogra: no, it doesn't understand those flags apperantly
[03:49] <ogra> X_VERTREFRESH and X_HORZSYNC are the only ways
[03:49] <ogra> it does
[03:49] <nlindblad> are you sure?
[03:49] <ogra> but your monitor probably doesnt understand the values
[03:49] <nlindblad> they make no difference
[03:49] <nlindblad> oki
[03:50] <ogra> qanother option would be a static xorg.conf
[03:50] <pips1> hmm
[03:50] <pips1> is there a way to see login attempts from clients on the server?
[03:51] <ogra> nlindblad, put XF86CONFIG_FILE=/etc/special-client.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf and special-client.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ for that
[03:51] <nlindblad> thanks!
[03:51] <ogra> pips1, /vqar/log/auth.log logs all ssh logins 
[03:52] <sbalneav> pips1: SHould be in /var/log/auth.log
[03:52] <pips1> thanks 2x !
[03:52] <ogra> ok, but now ...
[03:52] <ogra> bbl
[03:52] <pips1> cu
[03:54] <sbalneav> heh, edubuntu-devel
[03:54] <bddebian> Heya
[03:54] <sbalneav> "The admin user can reset the root pasword after login?!?!?!? UNBELEIVABLE!!!!!"
[04:00] <cberl1> Ummm...  I just noticed I can't actually login to my Thin Client, now that everything "looks" good.  What should I be looking for in auth.log to determine the source of the problem?
[04:00] <sbalneav> If you had a problem with some dhcpd stuff you might want to re-update your sshkeys
[04:01] <sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
[04:01] <cberl1> rihgt.
[04:01] <cberl1> Should I have to reboot the client for that to take effect?
[04:02] <cberl1> (update went rather fast -- should it show me some kind of result?)
[04:02] <sbalneav> I don't think so.
[04:02] <sbalneav> Nope.  like all Unix commands silent == ok :)
[04:02] <cberl1> Looks much better now
[04:03] <cberl1> Time to (finally) get SSH and PAM_MOUNT to play with each other!!
[04:04] <sbalneav> A fundamental, and unwritten law of unix command line utilities is, if they're successful, and normally wouldn't produce output, they should just be quiet.
[04:04] <sbalneav> i.e. cp, mv, etc.
[04:05] <cberl1> Alright.  Reasonable enough.  Failure results in loud complaining usually...  Guess I've been playing with Windows too much lately -- it complains whether things work or not!
[04:07] <cberl1> Okay, looking very nice so far.  Seems to scan my floppy every time I access my USB stick, but taking the floppy out fixes that issue...
[04:08] <cberl1> Now, do I recall reading that with this setup, I don't "unmount" or eject media, just take them out and we're good to go?
[04:09] <sbalneav> Yep
[04:09] <sbalneav> That's right.
[04:10] <cberl1> That's a fast system it uses.  I just popped in a CD and it read it before I looked back at the screen.  I expected lag.
[04:10] <sbalneav> :)
[04:10] <sbalneav> \o/ for me and ogra :)
[04:10] <cberl1> Kudos indeed!
[04:10] <pips1> sbalneav: I want to change the default keyboard layout for the thin clients. I can do that by editing lts.conf, right? Is that the lts.conf in /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/ ?
[04:11] <sbalneav> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
[04:11] <sbalneav> There shouldn't be one in edubuntu-artwork
[04:11] <sbalneav> There is!
[04:11] <sbalneav> Weeeeeird
[04:11] <sbalneav> No, that's not the one.
[04:11] <pips1> hmm
[04:12] <pips1> well, I did a find / -name "lts.conf" 2>/dev/null
[04:12] <sbalneav> I'll have to ask ogra about that one later.
[04:13] <pips1> strangely, I don't have a lts.conf in  /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ ?!
[04:14] <pips1> sbalneav: ^^^ ?
[04:15] <pips1> (note that this is a system that has been upgraded dapper -> edgy)
[04:15] <pips1> (if that makes any difference)
[04:16] <sbalneav> pips1: You'll probably want to do a:
[04:16] <sbalneav> mv /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp.old && ltsp-build-client
[04:17] <sbalneav> and rebuild the chroot.
[04:17] <pips1> well, I did that already!
[04:18] <pips1> and I am currently logged in on the thin client and it seems that I got edgy alright
[04:18] <sbalneav> well, there should be a small one in there already.
[04:18] <sbalneav> [default] 
[04:18] <sbalneav>         X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
[04:18] <sbalneav>         LOCALDEV=True
[04:18] <sbalneav>         SOUND=True
[04:18] <sbalneav>         NBD_SWAP=True
[04:18] <sbalneav> like that.
[04:18] <pips1> yes, that's the contents of /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/lts.conf
[04:20] <sbalneav> that's the contents of /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf on my system :)
[04:22] <kenkarniff> hello! i'm trying out the new edubuntu with ltsp, but i cant get the right gdm welcome language (swedish) and keymapping. Language support in menus and programs is working. Does anyone have  any tip how i can fix this?
[04:24] <pips1> kenkarniff: I am currently also trying to configure the keymapping for the clients, so we can work it out together :-)
[04:25] <kenkarniff> pips1: ah at least i'm not alone! :)
[04:25] <pips1> as far as I understand, we can configure the default keyboard layout for the thin clients in the 'lts.conf' file. On my system, the file is in /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/lts.conf. However, on the system of sbalneav, it is in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf.
[04:25] <pips1> Have a look to see if you can find the ltp.conf on your system :-)
[04:26] <sbalneav> pips1: just copy that file to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf, and edit it there.
[04:26] <pips1> ok
[04:29] <pips1> kenkarniff: note, you might not have to do that on your system, if you already have /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/lts.conf
[04:29] <kenkarniff> yes i've found it at /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf. the parameters i've set is XkbSymbols, XkbModel and XkbLayout
[04:29] <pips1> sorry I meant /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
[04:29] <pips1> and it works for you?
[04:31] <kenkarniff> it does not... 
[04:32] <cberl1> Getting side-tracked just a little here, a colleague just approached me about getting a Ubuntu CD for his laptop.  I have a few of 6.06 but I'd like to grab 6.10 for him.  I notice there is no jigdo file for the i386 Desktop iso -- anyone know where I can get that, or recreate it?
[04:34] <sbalneav> The parameters for keyboard are:
[04:34] <sbalneav> XKBLAYOUT, XKBMODEL, XKBVARIANT, XKBRULES, XKBOPTIONS
[04:34] <sbalneav> All caps
[04:37] <kenkarniff> sbalneav: thank you, i will try that (didnt have caps)
[04:38] <sbalneav> No problem
[04:45] <pips1> sbalneav: do you have examples for the XKBLAYOUT, etc properties handy?
[04:46] <sbalneav> No, but they should be the same as the corresponding X.org settings.
[04:46] <pips1> ic
[04:47] <pips1> what is the name of that x.org conf file?
[04:48] <sbalneav> Well, the xorg file's normally at /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[04:48] <pips1> ah, many thanks
[04:48] <sbalneav> man xorg.conf should give you info
[04:53] <pips1> phew, so many options
[04:56] <pips1> hmm, I starting to think that I need to try rebuilding the ltsp-client, there is too much wrong with my thin client, e.g. the sound playing on the server instead of the client, the keyboard layout in lts.conf doen't get picked up...
[05:01] <sbalneav> Did you have an old 4.2 ltsp there before?
[05:01] <kenkarniff> pips1: i have problems with sound too! i'll try if the server plays the sound... dont have any speakers connected there
[05:02] <pips1> sbalneav: I did a fresh edubuntu 6.06 install and then upgraded to 6.10
[05:03] <sbalneav> Why not a fresh 6.10 install? :)
[05:04] <pips1> I'm testing :-)
[05:05] <sbalneav> You'll definitely want to re-build the client, and do an ltsp-update-kernels as well.
[05:06] <pips1> sbalneav: I have followed all the steps from the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
[05:07] <sbalneav> Which steps?
[05:07] <pips1> with the exception of doing sudo 'ltsp-build-client --arch i386' as a last step, since I got an amd64 server and i386 thin clients
[05:08] <nlindblad> does chrooting to /opt/ltsp/i386/ and using apt work?
[05:08] <pips1> should do, according to ogra earlier
[05:08] <nlindblad> nice
[05:09] <sbalneav> nlindblad: It does, but can lead to some inconsistencies.  a re-build is better.
[05:09] <cberl1> pips1:  sounds a lot like the "test" I've been doing.  Fairly clean?
[05:09] <sbalneav> If you set up a local apt-cache repository, you can rebuild the chroot in about 5 minutes.
[05:09] <cberl1> sbalneav: Using a local squid caching server works about that way, too.
[05:10] <sbalneav> yep
[05:10] <sbalneav> it does.
[05:11] <pips1> hmm, since I got the edgy installer cd... I guess that is an option too
[05:11] <pips1> ogra mentioned ## mount /cdrom && sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
[05:11] <sbalneav> that, too, will work.
[05:12] <cberl1> I love having options
[05:12] <sbalneav> There's always more than one way to it :)
[05:13] <pips1> cberl1: my upgrade went "fairly clean", yes, meaning that my server now runs edgy alright, but I'm a bit confused to why I didn't have /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf and why the sound is playing on the server instead of the client...
[05:13] <nlindblad> sbalneav: but if it's screwed up a simple re-build will recreate it?
[05:14] <cberl1> pips1: I found the lts.conf was missing, too -- ogra said dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork fixes that (with -pcritical switch, apparently)
[05:14] <cberl1> ..as for sound on server but not client, I don't know yet -- no speakers in testing area here.
[05:14] <cberl1> Lemme check...
[05:17] <pips1> cberl1: oooohh, now that you mention this! I forgot to do 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork' since it wasn't mentioned on that outdated EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes wiki page :-/
[05:18] <pips1> oh man
[05:21] <pips1> cberl1: just so you know, from a clean fresh install of edubuntu 6.10, I had the sound on the thin clients working, it's just not working on my dist-upgrade test...
[05:22] <pips1> so far
[05:22] <sbalneav> nlindblad: Should, yes
[05:22] <pips1> hmm. the dpkg-reconfigure didn't fix my thin client sound prob
[05:22] <sbalneav> Sorry, was getting a coffeee
[05:24] <pips1> this is taking too much time :-/ I do wonder if it's possible to do an dist-upgrade and actually get everything working as it should :-/
[05:24] <cberl1> pips1: Found speakers -- testing here
[05:25] <sbalneav> Should be able to, that's how I did my machine at home.
[05:25] <sbalneav> dist upgraded main, rebuild chroot.
[05:28] <pips1> sbalneav: so on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes these are actually two different *options* for doing the same thing, but the second option is recommended, right?
[05:28] <sbalneav> Yup
[05:28] <cberl1> Okay, sounds working here after upgrade
[05:28] <pips1> s/doing the same thing/achieving the same goal/
[05:28] <cberl1> brb
[05:28] <sbalneav> A clean rebuild is guarenteed to work.
[05:31] <pips1> ah, 'sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom' doesn't work with the i386 installer cd from a amd64 client :-/
[05:32] <pips1> s/amd64 client/amd64 server
[05:32] <pips1> darn
[05:33] <sbalneav> Hmm
[05:33] <pips1> cberl1: good to hear that you got sound to work on your setup :) that means that I am doing something wrong
[05:33] <pips1> sbalneav: how do I setup apt-cache?
[05:34] <pips1> kenkarniff: did you ever get your keyboard layout setting to work?
[05:35] <sbalneav> pips1: apt-get install apt-cacher
[05:35] <sbalneav> follow the readme :)  You'll just need to do a --proxy on the ltsp-client-build command line.
[05:35] <sbalneav> And, in fact, you can pre-populate the packages off the install cd
[05:35] <sbalneav> for ++win
[05:36] <pips1> pre-populate?
[05:37] <sbalneav> yep, you can pull the packages off the cd, and add them into the cache
[05:37] <pips1> ic
[05:39] <pips1> I now got apt-cacher :)
[05:39] <sbalneav> Handy little dingus.  I use it a lot.
[05:42] <pips1> so I setup the edubunt server as the mirror.. since my host is called edubuntu (by default) I can use 'http://proxy.edubuntu:3142' ..?
[05:44] <pips1> sbalneav: are you using apt-cacher as a daemon?
[05:49] <sbalneav> yes
[05:54] <pips1> hmm, how do I get the .deb files extracted from the installer cd (into /var/cache/apt-cacher/import) ?
[05:56] <pips1> or do I simply copy the packages.gz from the cd into the apt-cacher/import dir?
[06:01] <pips1> that didn't work
[06:01] <sbalneav> it's documented in the readme
[06:02] <pips1> I'm trying to follow that, but it seems I'm daft :)
[06:03] <pips1> there aren't individual .debs on the installer cd... only 'Packages.gz' and a 'Packages' files in the subfolder 'Main' and 'Restricted' ..
[06:04] <pips1> the import method in the apt-cacher man page only talks about importing .debs though
[06:09] <sbalneav> Right, well, just copy over all the debs from the cd, and run the import procedure.
[06:11] <pips1> there *are* debs on the cd? oh
[06:11] <sbalneav> yeppers!
[06:12] <sbalneav> think they're in "pool"
[06:12] <pips1> oh, found them, in lots of subdirs..
[06:13] <sbalneav> should be able to do something along the lines of:
[06:14] <sbalneav> find . -name "*.deb" -exec cp {} /path/to/cache \;
[06:16] <pips1> missing argument to '-exec' .. hm
[06:16] <pips1> haven't tried -exec option of find yet :)
[06:16] <pips1> *before
[06:17] <pips1> hmm, your command should have worked
[06:18] <sbalneav> did you put in the "{}"'s?
[06:18] <pips1> yep
[06:18] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[06:18] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[06:19] <pips1> sure thing, the found files are put into those {} ... 
[06:20] <sbalneav> find . -name "*.deb" -print, lets see if you get some output at least.
[06:20] <pips1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29388
[06:20] <pips1> right
[06:21] <pips1> it *does* find those .debs alright :)
[06:22] <pips1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29389
[06:24] <pips1> I also tried sudo before the cp but that didn't work either
[06:24] <highvoltage> geez. I'm busy working on a presentation called 'ubuntu and its derivatives' that i'm presenting tomorrow... I don't even mention everything I want to, and it's not done yet, and I'm on 53 slides already :)
[06:24] <pips1> heh
[06:25] <pips1> I hope you can publish those slides once you did the presentation :)
[06:27] <pips1> sbalneav: it would be *great* to get this apt-cacher thing working, it would be very handy to demonstrate the power of easy installation of applications on edubuntu on my laptop edubuntu demo installation...
[06:28] <sbalneav> Well, have you copied the debs yet?
[06:28] <pips1> it doesn't work.. the command you suggested terminates with 'find: missing argument to '-exec'" error
[06:29] <pips1> cf  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29389
[06:30] <sbalneav> You're missing the \; at the end.
[06:30] <pips1> argh blublub 
[06:30] <highvoltage> pips1: I'll publish it, there's some local-specific stuff in there, but it can be cleaned up :)
[06:31] <pips1> sorry sbalneav and thanks
[06:33] <cberl1> Arghh!  "Can I see you for a sec?" never means that, does it?
[06:35] <pips1> heh
[06:36] <cberl1> pips1:  Any chance in your testing you could see what happens to the local device mounting et al. when you switch to XDMCP?  :)
[06:37] <sbalneav> localdevices won't work with xdmcp
[06:37] <sbalneav> at this point
[06:37] <sbalneav> we'll fix that for feisty
[06:37] <cberl1> sbalneav: so I've heard, but it does work on regular LTSP, so I was hoping I could get a hand with it...  My only other option is to get pam_mount to play nice with SSH here.
[06:38] <cberl1> ...and I haven't had any success doing that yet.  Looks like doing the possible is more of an option than the "impossible"...
[06:38] <sbalneav> Why do you need pam_mount?
[06:39] <cberl1> sbalneav: to get user home shares and a couple of other shares "standard" to our student setup
[06:39] <sbalneav> Why not simply mount one directory up?
[06:39] <cberl1> What do you mean?  These shares are on different servers
[06:40] <sbalneav> For instance, out home dirs are /usr/legal/home/<username>, so I just mount /usr/legal/home on all boxes.
[06:40] <sbalneav> s/out/our/
[06:40] <cberl1> Basically, you mount all homes to one place, then let the users have their home drive from there.  I see.  But we also need access to "clipart", "Apps", "Handin", "Handout", etc. type shares
[06:41] <cberl1> Dependent on class assignment
[06:41] <sbalneav> so? Mount them all once.
[06:42] <cberl1> Lemme send you the share I want to mount and see if you can help elaborate here --not sure I'm following.
[06:42] <cberl1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29393/
[06:43] <sbalneav> yuk
[06:44] <cberl1> So basically, what you're suggesting is to mount //windowsbox/allhomes to one spot, then link to the appropriate home directory -- this is not what I want to use as the actual Linux home directory, but where the user's file are stored (a sort of My Documents).
[06:44] <sbalneav> so, you've got separate drives like <uid>_clipart instead of "clipart/uid"?
[06:44] <cberl1> sbalneav: I can't agree more!
[06:44] <cberl1> sbalneav: I can see where I'd use just "generic" access for things like clipart, but as an example teachers need to have access to put new clipart in, but students don't.
[06:45] <cberl1> I don't want to have to change the existing Windows structure to implement (way too much of a headache for that) but I want to "simulate" what is available for windows users on the terminal server
[06:45] <sbalneav> ok, well, what's not working with libpam-mount?  I don't want to get into normalizing your network.
[06:46] <cberl1> lol
[06:46] <cberl1> in short, libpam-mount won't mount if I use ldm (and the ssh stuff that it has for a backend).  I can't seem to find the right combination that will enable it.
[06:46] <cberl1> ...I'm using winbind auth for all user accounts.
[06:46] <cberl1> ...autocreating the home directories at login
[06:47] <cberl1> ... mapping their drives
[06:47] <cberl1> ... figuring out which groups their in a putting icons on their desktop appropriately
[06:47] <cberl1> ...and deleting all that when they log out
[06:47] <cberl1> If I could just access the Active Directory at login, so much of that would be easier!
[06:49] <cberl1> Okay, hypothetically, if I mapped all homes using just one user (like our generic student account we use for testing), would access right limit me from accessing usera files from userb (assuming Samba ACLs are set properly)?
[06:49] <sbalneav> You create a home dir every time, then erase it?
[06:50] <cberl1> sbalneav: yep
[06:50] <sbalneav> uhhh
[06:50] <sbalneav> why?
[06:50] <cberl1> sbalneav: because each home dir is about 20mb; if this project expands to all 3000 computers it's in line for, I don't have that kind of space.
[06:51] <cberl1> ...and it makes it easier to implement policy -- new policy applies automatically when user homedir is created
[06:51] <sbalneav> ok, well, why don't you paste what you've got with the pam-mount stuff
[06:52] <cberl1> Okay, I'll put up the pam.d entries...
[06:55] <cberl1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29396/
[06:55] <cberl1> ...sshd_config is also in there -- read something about needing priviledge separation, but conflicting "opinions"  -- I've tried both on and off
[06:57] <cberl1> gdm, ssh, etc. are configured to use the "common" elements in the right order (GDM works properly).  SSH complains of not being able to retrieve auth token
[07:00] <sbalneav> cberl1: from the readme
[07:00] <sbalneav> If you use pam_ldap, pam_winbind, or any other authentication  services
[07:00] <sbalneav>        that make use of PAM's sufficient keyword then model your configuration
[07:00] <sbalneav>        file common-pammount on the following:
[07:00] <sbalneav> 
[07:00] <sbalneav>                 ...
[07:00] <sbalneav>                 auth       required   pam_mount.so use_first_pass
[07:00] <sbalneav>                 session    optional   pam_mount.so use_first_pass
[07:00] <sbalneav> looks like you're missing the "use_first_pass" parameter
[07:00] <sbalneav> going to get a sammich, be right back
[07:05] <cberl1> sbalneav: Okay, I'll test that out here.  Thanks
[07:08] <cberl1> Not getting any good results from just using remote SSH...  I understand PAM changes take a moment, so I think I'll follow sbalneav's lead and grab a bite!
[07:08] <sbalneav> back
[07:11] <pips1> sbalneav: I restarted my server, so now my apt-cacher daemon is running
[07:12] <pips1> so now I need to adjust the sources.list in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ to include http://edubuntu:3142/archive.ubuntu.com... right?
[07:13] <pips1> where 'edubuntu' is my host and 3142 is the default port for apt-cacher..
[07:13] <cberl1> Hmmm...  Now I can't get logins through regular gdm...
[07:14] <sbalneav> pips1: if you're rebuilding the chroot, there's an option on the commandline to point to the proxy
[07:14] <pips1> oh
[07:14] <sbalneav> ltsp-build-client --help
[07:14] <sbalneav> I beleive
[07:14] <pips1> ok, I'll check that
[07:15] <pips1> yes, there is a --mirror option
[07:19] <cberl1> sbalneav: removing the "use_first_pass" allows me to login again.  Should the two login methods be mutually exclusive?
[07:23] <cberl1> Seem to recall the ssh-krb5 trick mentioned in the docs, too.
[07:29] <pips1> sbalneav: I dont' understand how I need to specify the apt-cacher mirror. I thought just using host:default-apt-cacher-port would work? (i.e. edubuntu:3142)?
[07:29] <pips1> see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29404
[07:33] <pips1> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror edubuntu:3142
[07:33] <pips1> I: Retrieving Release
[07:33] <pips1> E: unknown location edubuntu:3142/dists/edgy/Release
[07:33] <pips1> error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
[07:36] <cberl1> pips1: IMHO, a squid server is easier to setup and use -- set up the server to cache the max number of files you'll be downloading, set your http_proxy variable befor eyou start the build and you're golden...
[07:50] <sbalneav> pips1: I think you've specified the mirror line wrong
[07:51] <pips1> yes, I think so too, but I don't know how I do need to specificy it :-/
[07:57] <sbalneav> Well, why not the normal way:
[07:58] <sbalneav> --mirror http://your.host.name:3142/...
[07:58] <cberl1> bbs
[08:37] <cberl1> Awfully quiet in here -- I'll assume that means everyone is busy and things are going well?
[08:38] <sbalneav> cberl1: get your pam stuff going?
[08:46] <cberl1> sbalneav: Nope.  
[08:47] <cberl1> sbalneav: Still getting errors at the ssh level so maybe I have to look into getting ssh to work with winbind first...?
[08:47] <cberl1> Says something about can't get shadow info
[08:47] <sbalneav> probably.
[08:48] <sbalneav> I have no clue about windows stuff.  I've got 170 clients, and all of 'em linux. :)
[08:48] <cberl1> sbalneav: hiring?  :)
[08:48] <cberl1> Actually, I take that back -- I love where I work, even if they use Windows everywhere and I'm the only sane person here.
[08:52] <cberl1> Hey, think I may be on to something here...  Some PAM directives about authtok nullok
[08:59] <cberl1> Anyone know if pam_pwd was migrated into pam_unix?
[09:01] <Burgwork> cberl1: -directory might be a good place to talk about pam stuff
[09:02] <cberl1> Burgwork: Okay, which channel is that exactly?  #directory?
[09:02] <Burgwork> #ubuntu-directory
[09:02] <cberl1> Burgwork: Thanks
[09:07] <cberl1> They're a little less talkative in there... :)
[09:08] <Burgwork> they were more talkative earlier
[10:15] <pips1> hmm, the problem seems to be that ltsp-build-client with the --mirror option automatically adds '/dists/edgy/Release' to the (proxy) server path. which doesn't seem to work for the apt-cacher proxy? 
[10:16] <pips1> sbalneav: have you used apt-cacher with ltsp-build-client before?
[10:18] <sbalneav> pips1: yup
[10:18] <sbalneav> arcg, whats the pastebin agian?
[10:18] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[10:18] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[10:20] <pips1> if I just point my browser at http://edubuntu:3142/ I even get a friendly html page from apt-cacher, with some info about its configuration...
[10:21] <pips1> ... so the apt-cacher daemon is definitely working alright
[10:22] <pips1> do I need to configure a specific value for the http_proxy property of apt-cacher perhaps?
[10:23] <pips1> currently that is set to the default 'proxy.example.com:8080'
[10:27] <sbalneav> hold on, I'll install it here and tell you the command line.
[10:27] <sbalneav> I'll just read the man page and figure it out.
[10:27] <pips1> I tried to do that, but it looks as if I don't understand well enough
[10:32] <sbalneav> right from the man page:
[10:32] <sbalneav> ltsp-build-client --mirror http://localhost:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[10:32] <sbalneav> I've got it set up on localhost
[10:33] <sbalneav> change that to whatever your host is you've got it set up on, 
[10:33] <sbalneav> and the "archive.ubuntu.com" set up to whatever your normal achive is.
[10:34] <pips1> well, ok, but how did you set it up on localhost?
[10:34] <sbalneav> apt-get install apt-cacher
[10:35] <pips1> and that had it set up on localhost by default?!
[10:35] <sbalneav> then edit /etc/default/apt-cacher , and set AUTOSTART=1
[10:35] <pips1> ah
[10:35] <sbalneav> then invoke-rc.d apt-cacher start
[10:35] <sbalneav> it tells you to do that in /usr/share/doc/apt-cacher
[10:36] <sbalneav> every package you install has docs
[10:36] <sbalneav> first thing you do, is read them :)
[10:36] <sbalneav> cd /usr/share/doc/<package-name> :)
[10:37] <pips1> sorry, sbalneav I did all that and read the docs. but I *didn't* try "localhost" as my host name, since I thought my host name is what I read at my prompt, i.e. sysadmin@edubuntu i.e. my host is 'edubuntu'
[10:37] <pips1> ?
[10:37] <sbalneav> sure, that's a hostname too.
[10:37] <sbalneav> but "localhost" is always valid.
[10:38] <sbalneav> that's the 127.0.0.1 address.
[10:38] <sbalneav> i.e. loopback
[10:39] <pips1> nah
[10:39] <pips1> didn't work
[10:39] <lucasvo> pips1: do you have any firewall running?
[10:39] <lucasvo> is there another host with the name edubuntu in your network?
[10:40] <pips1> I do have a firewall, but surely localhost should work, no?
[10:40] <pips1> it's a hardware firewall ..
[10:40] <lucasvo> then it should
[10:40] <sbalneav> so, what does it say, when you run the command exactly as I typed it.
[10:40] <pips1> oh, actually, no, I disabled the hardware firewall 
[10:41] <pips1> sbalneav: paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29436
[10:43] <sbalneav> you didnt do what I asked.
[10:43] <pips1> I always get the same error "E: Failed getting release file http://whatever-i-tried-as-host:3142/dists/edgy/Release"
[10:43] <pips1> oops
[10:43] <pips1> sorry!
[10:43] <sbalneav> ltsp-build-client --mirror http://localhost:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[10:43] <pips1> I'm sorry
[10:43] <sbalneav> you have to specify the host it's going to get from after the proxy.
[10:43] <sbalneav> thats how the proxy knows where to get things from
[10:45] <LaserJock> hola Pete
[10:45] <pips1> ah, so it gets the information from 'apt-get update' from the archive.ubuntu.com but only uses the local .debs instead of the ones on the remote server
[10:46] <pips1> sbalneav: now it's rockin' and rolling
[10:46] <pips1> sorry for not paying attention before
[10:46] <pips1> hehe
[10:47] <sbalneav> Now it should proceed fairly fast, as most of the packages are already local.
[10:47] <sbalneav> as well, you can point OTHER boxes at that cache, and they'll get the same benefit.
[10:47] <pips1> it is blazing fast :)
[10:48] <sbalneav> It's a handy little dingus.
[10:48] <pips1> this is fab
[10:48] <pips1> edubuntugirl: sbalneav ++
[10:48] <pips1> or how does that work again?
[10:48] <sbalneav> sbalneav++
[10:49] <pips1> edubuntugirl: sbalneav++
[10:49] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma sbalneav
[10:49] <edubuntugirl> sbalneav: sbalneav has karma of 3
[10:49] <pips1> heh
[10:49] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma ogra
[10:49] <edubuntugirl> sbalneav: ogra has karma of 2
[10:49] <sbalneav> I win
[10:49] <pips1> hehe
[10:50] <pips1> hey, the ltsp-build-client has finished already
[10:51] <pips1> *-pcritical
[10:52] <sbalneav> ltsp-update-kernels as well
[10:54] <pips1> hmm
[10:54] <pips1> do I need to reboot the server or smth?
[10:55] <pips1> the thin client was still triggering sound on the server
[10:55] <pips1> ohhh
[10:55] <pips1> hold on
[10:57] <pips1> now we are talking !!
[10:57] <pips1> hurrah
[10:57] <sbalneav> boot-y-licious?
[10:57] <pips1> rock on!
[10:59] <pips1> oh sweet eft, with your tantalising locally devices
[11:03] <cbx33> LaserJock, 
[11:03] <cbx33> HI
[11:05] <pips1> highvoltage: meet sbalneav my personal hero
[11:05] <sbalneav> :)
[11:07] <sbalneav> wheee
[11:07] <sbalneav> I got a working deskbar plugin that searches apt-cache
[11:07] <sbalneav> I <3 deskbar
[11:08] <pips1> you *made* one?
[11:09] <sbalneav> yup
[11:09] <sbalneav> in python
[11:09] <cbx33> cool
[11:09] <cbx33> python rockx
[11:09] <sbalneav> it's rough.  I'll improve it later.
[11:09] <pips1> it's so fast
[11:10] <sbalneav> I've got one that pops up manpages in yelp, one that ssh's to hosts, and now one that shows info from apt-cache :)
[11:10] <pips1> ok, now i will do the dist-upgrade on my demo laptop and install apt-cacher on that too
[11:11] <stelis> One for SSH sounds really handy
[11:11] <stelis> I've got a pile of desktop icons for SSH sessions ATM
[11:12] <pips1> wow, now it's even possible to play tuxmath on the clients
[11:14] <pips1> I suppose that's because of the swap memory?
[11:15] <LaserJock> sbalneav: oh, that rocks dude
[11:26] <pips1> XKBLAYOUT works
[11:26] <pips1> \o/
[12:16] <pips1> is it possible to install several desktop managers (kde, xcfe) on the server and then choose the desktop for your thin client session?