[12:11] git-format-patch -o ~/logs master === imbrandon has never been quite right [12:11] *well [12:11] err, oops [12:11] the bright side is... all the hype means ubuntu is really getting a huge user base === LaserJock snatches crimsun's git and runs around the room with it [12:12] how many machines running ubuntu do you reckon? === marcin_ant [n=marcin@194.114.146.126] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:12] theCore: http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/all-packages.html has pretty much all the info you need [12:12] LaserJock: hey, it's your sound you're playing fast and loose with [12:12] LaserJock, thanks [12:12] luisbg: last i heard there was 12 million installs last est bt canonical but thats a few months ago [12:12] crimsun: who needs sound anyway? [12:13] not me! [12:13] s/bt/by [12:13] i have no idea how they come up with the numbers [12:13] crimsun: I honestly don't use sound very much as I usually work around people who are annoyed by it [12:13] ntp [12:13] LaserJock: sound's one of those things people just tend not to notice unless it doesn't work [12:13] i cant live without my amarok, i hope my rommie in mtv likes my music heh [12:14] then all hell breaks loose [12:14] yep [12:14] crimsun: kinda like email === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:15] i learned one thing working for an ISP as a sysadmin for 9 years, someones website can be down for 2 days and they whine a little and you might get a phone call , possibly , but if email is down 20 minutes the phone is off the hook and all hell breaks loose [12:15] hmm... no bug [12:15] I want to know how ubuntu works from the inside out in depth... where should I go? (is there a free online version of the ubuntu book? and is it too user oriented?) [12:15] yeah, mine was down for 3 *days* [12:15] wow [12:15] good thing I know the sysadmin [12:16] or he'd be having some hate mail when he got the server up again ;-) [12:16] I wonder what cause bug 57951 [12:16] Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951 [12:16] luisbg: alot of things arent 100% transparent but look into the debian way and its very similar [12:16] luisbg: things like soyuz isnt "open" etc to know exactly how it works [12:17] imbrandon, why not? [12:17] luisbg: Launchpad is a closed source app [12:17] luisbg: i dont know to be honest [12:17] even if it was open, it would be less than useful [12:17] very true [12:17] lol [12:17] but LP is closed for one and we rely on it [12:17] its managed by a very large staff of programmers and sysadmins [12:17] across many servers === Hawkwind [n=SoS@ulteo/community-leader/Hawkwind] has joined #Ubuntu-MOTU [12:17] yup === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:17] if you had the code you couldnt easily use it [12:17] my question is where can I get the information of how ubuntu works, a easy to follow documentation [12:18] can you narrow that down a bit? [12:18] luisbg: there are thousands of ways that can be intrepreted [12:18] how in what way> [12:18] ? [12:18] I have a lot of docu about packaging, and have started doing my packaging [12:18] we're happy to help when we can or point you in the right direction but we need a little more focus [12:18] but with time would like to help the core-dev [12:19] luisbg: then the best thing in that respect is learn as much about packaing as you can and all the diffrent ways it can be done and such [12:19] to start with [12:20] is there a "and then..."? [12:20] like python packaing , ruby packing , mono-cli packing , library packing etc are all slightly diffrent [12:20] the and then is to start working on main bugs as a MOTU with a core-dev sponsor or sponsors, after some time you go infront of the TB [12:21] and they vouch for you and your woprk is reviewed [12:21] TB? [12:21] if all go's well you are core-dev with main upload rights ( this is all greately simplified ) [12:21] technical board [12:22] oh ok [12:22] thanks for the info imbrandon =) [12:22] :) [12:23] I have started trying to fix unmetdep bugs, have uploaded some debdiffs to launchpad [12:23] you have to have *significant* experience before going for core-dev [12:23] not to discourage, but you cant rush it [12:23] but I still have a long travel of learning =) which is always good [12:23] I have no rush [12:23] luisbg: great , thats some good first steps for MOTU , keep it up, if you stick with it and us in here you'll mpick it up soon enough :) [12:24] I want to contribute, not have this or that "label", plus... I want to learn as much as I can, in its rythm [12:24] imbrandon, will do ;) [12:25] the only thing I want to rush is having at least one point of karma in the launchpad LOL [12:25] that "0" looks so sad [12:25] luisbg: i can tell you one thing, i lurked in here for 3 months without saying much of anything before i started asking questions etc , that is when you learn the basics ( every one is diffrent but i learn by watching ) [12:25] bddebian: do you still have your bkchem package around? [12:25] imbrandon: hah it sucked being first [12:26] imbrandon: i felt like an idiot talking to mdz [12:26] luisbg: thats not to say dont ask , i was just giving what __I__ did [12:26] imbrandon, are you asking me to "shut up and listen"? (not in a degrading way of course) [12:26] no no not at all [12:26] imbrandon, LOL [12:26] i'm saying you can learn alot though by watching [12:26] bhale: hehe [12:27] bhale: my core-dev interview was 1+ hour long just on __me__ , i thought for sure i wouldent get it after that long, but i did :) [12:27] heh [12:27] like an hour and 15 minutes or something close to that [12:27] its getting harder [12:27] because the TB doesnt know everyone personally [12:28] azeem: Yeah, I think so, why? [12:28] yea and working mostly only on KDE packages myself they knew me very little [12:28] they == TB [12:28] bddebian: did you use python-support or python-central or something? [12:28] imbrandon: to be fair, only about half that amount of time was TB actually "grilling" you. === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:29] crimsun: true [12:29] alot was lag time waiting [12:29] but it seemed like forever [12:29] hehe [12:30] yes, it always seems like an eternity when you're in the hot seat === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:30] once hobbsee is core-dev, you guys will be on a roll [12:30] heh yea [12:30] definatly [12:30] +e in there somewherre [12:31] azeem: pycentral [12:31] i hate this notebok keyboard [12:31] Gotta eat dinner, bbiab [12:31] trying to use it more though so i can make sure all my "essentials" are on it and ready for MTV [12:32] bddebian: cool, can you put it up somewhere? We need to migrate the unofficial bkchem package to new python policy, that would help a lot [12:32] as before i just used it as a "backup" when i wasent at my desktop === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-42-159.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:39] luisbg: there is a transition most of the time going on that new packagers can "get their feet wet" with too [12:40] like unmetdeps etc [12:40] etc? === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock is feeling another C/C++ transition coming on ;-) [12:41] unmetdeps are great for me right now =) [12:41] etc means , ummm ectectra ( sp? ) [12:41] too bad this days most unmetdeps are bigger bugs camouflaged, you guys did a hell of a job making all good for edgy [12:41] ironic I want feisty to come and things to get wild, to have more stuff to play with :P [12:42] luisbg: me too, I'd like to go for core-dev sometime during Feisty [12:42] imbrandon, I meant... can you make that etc broader? [12:42] but I need some practice with some sponsored uploads [12:43] LaserJock, good luck [12:43] oh like a while back the libgamin transition ( rebuilds to make packages not use it anymore ) and ummm dh_iconcache from packages where it was missing === luisbg shakes his eightball [12:43] I see a bright future for you :P [12:43] but those are both done, new ones will come along [12:43] luisbg: well, I'm not nearly as good as imbrandon or ajmitch or crimsun or bhale :/ [12:44] imbrandon, will be looking forward to give a hand in future transitions [12:44] LaserJock: blasphmey [12:44] :) [12:44] LaserJock, practice makes perfection (insert karate kid quote here) [12:44] s/crimsun/bddebian/ [12:44] s/imbrandon/crimsun/ [12:44] :) [12:45] I don't think I'm going to win this battle. === LaserJock showers the channel with ponies [12:45] LaserJock, damn you and your ponies [12:45] don't blame me, I didn't start it === imbrandon is working twords a golden pony for Feisty === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:46] LaserJock: guess what? [12:46] instead of champaigne i'll spray mt dew everywhere :) [12:46] at does not work! :D [12:46] imbrandon: Lol [12:47] LaserJock: also i did pbuilder debuild *.dsc but it did not build any packages [12:47] imbrandon: well, you could sell your golden pony for a truck load of Mt. Dew [12:47] pbuilder build file.dsc === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:47] imbrandon: i know i did that [12:47] not debuild [12:47] bbl [12:47] i do not get debian files from that though === luisbg goes to have dinner [12:48] joejaxx: where did you look for the .deb ? [12:48] joejaxx: look in /var/cache/pbuilder/result [12:48] oh [12:48] LaserJock: imbrandon i have a question about the at package [12:49] well it is my question before but [12:49] when you install at in debstrap it does not configure right [12:49] someone told me to look at strace [12:49] and that it was not outputting to syslog [12:49] would a MOTU be willing to consider looking at an azureus edgy-updates candidate for me? [12:50] he package configuration fails on starting the at daemon [12:50] full sources at http://buntudot.org/people/~jdong/azureus-edgy/, closes bug 42269 [12:50] Malone bug 42269 in azureus "Does not create a tray icon" [Medium,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/42269 === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:51] debootstap starts a daemon >? [12:51] jdong: matthias's will probably supercede that. [12:51] imbrandon: no [12:52] crimsun: matthias's what? [12:52] chroot'd inside the debstrap environment [12:52] did he have a fix ready to upload already? [12:52] as in [12:52] jdong: azureus package [12:52] crimsun: his is broken, or is there one that I don't know about? [12:52] chroot dbstrap-test [12:52] apt-get install at [12:52] jdong: the latter, he was supposed to email mdz [12:52] ah, ok [12:52] I didn't know [12:53] that's ok, you have a life. [12:53] crimsun: sadly, I don't think I do :D [12:53] azeem: I'll stick it on bddebian.com, give me a sec [12:53] I've just been too absorbed in other nerdy stuff :) === jdong notices that Launchpad has sent him 500 new messages [12:54] 300 of which are duplicates of the flashplayer bug :D [12:54] what flashplayer? [12:54] crimsun: from when I broke it a while back :D [12:55] time for some food, bbiab [12:55] oh, flashplugin-nonfree? [12:55] yeah [12:55] still haunts my inbox [12:55] :) [12:55] mostly from people with too much time marking duplicates [12:55] oh don't worry, it just gets worse. [12:55] (and then rejecting duplicates) ?! [12:55] so I got 30 dups, 10 of which got marked rejected.... which gives me 300 messages in my inbox :) [12:56] jdong: just think thats only one package, wait till your MOTU === rpedro [n=rpedro@87-196-70-92.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:56] imbrandon: I suppose by then I'll start filtering LP out of my inbox :) [12:56] LP sends me about a thousand e-mails daily [12:57] yea i get aobut 400 or 500 a day from LP [12:57] i only get to read about 100 of them [12:57] if that some days [12:57] wow [12:57] I guess I have no right to complain then :D [12:57] complaining doesn't resolve anything; fixing bugs does :) [12:57] grr, azureus is doing a suckier job than ktorrent on this particular baddie :) [12:57] crimsun: the problem is the bug is already fixed :D [12:58] azeem: http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/bkchem/ [12:58] bddebian: thanks dude [12:58] whoa , i dident know you had bddebian.com /me go's to fanboi [12:59] bddebian: hurd? [12:59] bddebian: is that the next debian release? [12:59] no heh [12:59] :) [12:59] joejaxx: no, it'll take longer :D [12:59] hurd is an alternative to the linnux kernel from GNU [12:59] oh [12:59] why whould someone want to do that? === ivoks [n=ivoks@34-207.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:00] joejaxx: ask wikipedia [01:00] ie why was the project started :) [01:00] joejaxx: GNU thinks linux is a hackjob, and a good OS should be engineered as one from ground up? [01:00] it was started about the same time as linux just dident catch on as well [01:00] besides, linux is getting boring :) [01:01] microkernel vs monolithic kernel too :) [01:01] hurd? :) [01:01] are they trying to do this because everyone calls it linux and not gnu/kinux? [01:01] gnu/linux* [01:01] joejaxx: it still has to be called gnu/hurd [01:01] so it doesn't fix that "problem" [01:02] joejaxx: hurd was the first kernel for gnu systems, then linux cam and was less buggy and worked [01:02] that's a "feature" not a "problem" ;-p [01:02] thus was use [01:02] d [01:02] and i cant say /worked/ enough heh [01:02] oh ok [01:03] does hurd work today? [01:03] also like i said you have the micro-kernel ( hurd ) vs monolithic kernel ( linux ) too , kinda like kde vs gnome [01:04] yeah [01:04] ivoks: for some value of "work" [01:04] and then you have darwin , micro-kernel + bsd(ish) kernel strapped togather :) [01:04] and ofcourse the bsd kernel === vil [n=vladimir@catv-tisnov-86.selfnet.cz] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [01:04] but there is a working version of hurd?? [01:05] and dos kernels ( command.com ? ) and windows kernels ( ntldr.sys ? ) [01:05] imbrandon: whould you like to help me solve the at dilemma? [01:05] imbrandon: yeah windows kernels [01:05] joejaxx: i know nothing about it [01:05] pcniatic: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ [01:05] and http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/ [01:06] imbrandon: well if you debstrap a test environment and try and install at it does not work [01:06] joejaxx: yea it works here, i have a etch , sid , dapper, edgy, and feisty chroots all setup using debootstrap [01:07] imbrandon: well when you chroot in what are the first things you do before you do anything major ie apt-get install [01:07] imbrandon: with me export LC_ALL & HOME and mout /sys and /proc [01:07] nothing [01:07] nothig? [01:07] nothing? [01:07] mount* [01:07] thats all done via dchroot and my .bashrc [01:08] dchroot? [01:08] LaserJock: bah, I'm not any better than you [01:08] imbrandon: i have never used that [01:08] ajmitch: sure you are [01:08] dchroot -c -d [01:08] :) [01:08] hmm === joejaxx goes to try === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-42-159.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jdong just uses his pbuilders as chroots :D [01:09] also you might want to setup the bind mounts in your fstab [01:09] they clean up after my messes :) [01:09] jdong: yeah, I just wish they were faster to unpack on my machines :( [01:09] jdong: Lol [01:09] LaserJock: yeah, there's a good 10 second delay to accessing a chroot, but it's worth it [01:09] i hate when this happens [01:09] root@equinox:/# umount /proc [01:09] umount: /proc: device is busy [01:10] :( [01:10] jdong: mine's a little longer then 10 s I think [01:10] LaserJock: loopbacking a reiserfs will give you quite a boost [01:10] but that takes setting aside a dedicated area of space [01:10] takes about 8s here to pbuilder- login [01:11] actually, jfs with nointegrity is a hair faster [01:11] so you all use pbuilder for chroot also? [01:11] I don't think everyone's as crazy as me, no === joejaxx is confused === DarkMageZ [n=richard@ppp234-5.lns3.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:11] joejaxx: pbuilder takes extra time to unpack and clean every usage cycle.... [01:11] joejaxx: i use both, depends on my need at the time [01:11] cleaning is nice [01:12] joejaxx: typically I use my chroots to test backports and other experimental-nature packaging work [01:12] oh ok [01:12] joejaxx: so I'd rather do it in a self-cleaning environment [01:12] imbrandon: takes exactly 1 min 3 sec to do a pbuilder login on my fast machine [01:12] i am trying to use my chroots to build the fluxbuntu livecds [01:12] LaserJock: holy crap [01:12] LaserJock: wow [01:12] LaserJock: what is your setup?!? === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:12] I think my junk router/server unpacks faster than that [01:12] once i get past this at package error and can start [01:13] 2.8 GHz Celeron with 512 MB Ram [01:13] that's my laptop [01:13] ahh slow hdd [01:13] thats the holdup [01:13] yeah, your hd is likely to blame [01:13] 5400 rpm probably [01:13] LaserJock: how big is your base tarball & apt cache? [01:13] and 512MB of RAM is probably not helping you out [01:13] I also have a 1.3 GHz P4 with 256MB of Ram [01:14] imbrandon: my 5400rpm is MUCH faster than that! [01:15] heh, pbuilder login is somewhat broken on my box, due to the hook script used [01:16] the base tarball is 91 MB and the apt cache is 464 MB [01:17] how do i force a umount? [01:17] umount -f does not work [01:17] ok, on my intel imac at work it takes 20 s :-) [01:17] LaserJock: ok, that's pretty small === ajmitch has a 97MB base tarball & a 4.3GB apt cache that needs cleaned [01:18] well, I reinstall so often there usually isn't even a chance for it to get that big === ajmitch never reinstalls [01:18] hmm, takes 38 s on my P4 1.3GHz [01:18] Hjum... sid-base.tgz 64MiB, edgy-base.tgz 59MiB, breezy-base.tgz 38MiB .... [01:18] this laptop sucks [01:19] bah/win 16 === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === joejaxx very much dislikes when /proc does not want to umount [01:20] joejaxx: -l [01:21] joejaxx: WARNING: may send undesired SIGKILLs to random processes :D [01:21] that is not a app flag for umount is it? [01:21] yes [01:21] your results may vary, not responsible for damaged belongings, not a low calorie product [01:21] LaserJock: bah, bhale doesnt know anything [01:21] jdong: thanks [01:22] bhale: of course you do silly [01:22] jdong: that flag is not under --help lol [01:22] joejaxx: it's lazy unmount [01:22] bhale: you wouldn't be a core-dev and do the cool things you do if you didn't [01:22] jdong: normall i just restart my computer that works [01:22] normally [01:22] joejaxx: it is in the manpage [01:22] -l Lazy unmount. Detach the filesystem from the filesystem hierar [01:22] chy now, and cleanup all references to the filesystem as soon as [01:22] it is not busy anymore. (Requires kernel 2.4.11 or later.) [01:23] joejaxx: force unmount really doesn't do anything... unless you're using like NFS [01:23] oh ok [01:24] hmm, now I'm just confused as to why my laptop takes so long to unpack the base tarball [01:24] LaserJock: sane filesystem? [01:24] maybe that's also the reason why when I install stuff in synaptic it freezes so bad [01:24] not an XFS user, are you? :D [01:24] just default ext3 [01:25] ok [01:25] I've never used anything but ext and reiser [01:25] btw, anyone know if I can get pbuilder to use a different form of compression for the tarball? [01:25] don't see anything enlightening in the manpage [01:25] jdong: you could probably patch it to [01:26] LaserJock: that's what I was thinking.... === jdong expects that LZO would speed up his pbuilder work [01:26] or you could just patch it to use straight tar [01:26] if you actually wanted to speed things up [01:27] yeah [01:27] bhale: I care slightly about disk space though :D [01:27] i have 3 chroots or so on my other laptop [01:27] chroots are fun [01:27] an empty debootstrap isnt that big [01:27] around 1GB for all my pbuilders added together [01:27] especially when you have dapper, dapper-dev dapper-test dapper-exp edgy edgy-dev edgy-test edgy-exp [01:27] enough for me to start caring on my space-limited machines [01:29] what are the -dev and -test for? [01:29] I just have dapper and edgy :/ [01:29] well and sid [01:31] so how do i use pbuilder for chroot? [01:31] pbuilder login? [01:31] yes. [01:32] 15 seconds on mine [01:32] and when i exit it will clean itself up? [01:32] yes. [01:32] unless --save-after-login [01:33] should i still export home & LC_ALL and mount sys and proc? [01:33] no [01:33] but I don't do that in a chroot either [01:33] you need /proc in chroot often [01:33] but pbuilder handles it [01:33] right but I have bindmounts for that [01:34] I don't do it inside the chroot [01:34] BTW LaserJock and azeem, there were still some issues with what I did :) [01:34] mount -t proc /proc /chroot/proc [01:34] oh also i was wondering why apt-get does this [01:34] works for me [01:34] Ign http://archive.fluxbuntu.net dapper Release.gpg [01:34] Ign http://archive.fluxbuntu.net dapper Release [01:34] same as bind mount effectively [01:34] bhale: sure [01:34] but seems more correct somehow [01:34] bddebian: better then nothing [01:34] shrug === imbrandon returns [01:35] anyone know how i can correct that? [01:35] is that because my pgp key is not in the keyring ? === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:35] it doesnt need Release, anyway [01:35] most likely you didnt make one? [01:35] i did make one [01:36] shrug [01:36] and gpg signed it [01:36] you really need Packages/Sources .gz [01:36] they are there [01:36] joejaxx: btw, have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot ? [01:36] ignoring releases is no big deal [01:37] joejaxx: how did you make the repo ? i recomend something like falcon, it automates most of that for no more packages than what you are working with [01:37] imbrandon: created the directory [01:37] ( i use it for my repos with less than 30 packages ) [01:37] scanned them [01:37] created the *.gz and *.bz2 [01:37] and Seveas obviously uses it for all his as he wrote it :) [01:38] lol [01:38] well i cannot actually install falcon on this machine [01:38] which is why i did it manually [01:38] joejaxx: yea try falcon, it takes about ~10 minutes to setup and will save you lots of mundane work when dealing with repos [01:38] and it still works [01:38] I use reprepro. [01:38] well you could use reprepro or mini-dinstall [01:38] are those default on debian? [01:38] you dont have to have falcon running on the machine where the repo is [01:39] if they are not i cannot use it [01:39]