[12:12] <TheMuso> luisbg: And oh yeah. I have some specialist ISA hardware, so I still need the celeron.
[12:12] <luisbg> cool
[12:12] <LaserJock> Burgwork: _MMA_ was talking with a guy there and they sounded like they might be a possibility
[12:12] <tenshu> i added mkdir lign and now it's ok
[12:12] <Burgwork> very cool
[12:12] <tenshu> yipee first package for me
[12:12] <Burgwork> LaserJock: when it comes through, make certain ubuntu-marketing and fridge-devel got notified
[12:13] <LaserJock> Burgwork: sure :-)
[12:13] <TheMuso> luisbg: And another thing. If one wants to test Live/Alternate CDs of Ubuntu releases, its handy to have one machine with the burner, while you test on the other machines.
[12:13] <TheMuso> So I have my burner in the celeron, and use my Notebook and P4 for testing.
[12:13] <TheMuso> Saves a lot of time.
[12:13] <luisbg_zZzZZzZz> TheMuso, very true
[12:14] <luisbg_zZzZZzZz> LaserJock, LOL, me too
[12:14] <tenshu> Thanks again for your help =)
[12:15] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I have just collected this hardware over several years.
[12:27] <imbrandon> ...
[12:30] <earthian> It would be very nice to have someone compile wine for 64bit ubuntu and upload it to universe repositories... so people like me would not need to unsuccessfuly compile it all the time when new release comes
[12:32] <imbrandon> earthian, its being working on , \sh has spent many hours on getting it working with upstream
[12:32] <Burgwork> earthian: /sh tried
[12:32] <earthian> ok good to hear that :)
[12:33] <earthian> err.. the upstream is that new system of edgy? dapper i believe had init thing right?
[12:33] <Burgwork> upstart
[12:33] <Burgwork> ?
[12:33] <earthian> oh
[12:33] <earthian> right :)
[12:33] <imbrandon> upstream is the devlopers that make wine
[12:33] <earthian> btw dmraid package in edgy is broken
[12:35] <earthian> would it be possible to update it asap? i can not install edgy on my raid now... kinda waiting for someone to upgrade it.. there is i think rc13 source
[12:35] <earthian> but source is not compiling for me
[12:35] <earthian> i am just a new ubuntu user... not a pro or so
[12:35] <Burgwork> you have probably discovered why we don't have amd64 wine
[12:36] <earthian> yes. i have tried compiling it myself.. but failed.
[12:36] <earthian> someone from #wine-hq told me that wine can be compiled as amd64...
[12:36] <earthian> will ask again tho
[12:36] <earthian> :)
[12:37] <earthian> thanks for hearing. leaving now.
[12:37] <LaserJock> heh
[12:37] <Burgwork> right
[12:37] <imbrandon> wow
[12:37] <Burgwork> welcome to the world of fish bowl
[12:43] <TheMuso> Oh. There's a bunch of MOTUs.
[12:43] <TheMuso> Oh. There's a bunch of MOTUs.
[12:43] <TheMuso> What is a motu? :p
[12:44] <LaserJock> doh
[12:44] <imbrandon> lol
[12:47] <imbrandon> must ... not .. eat ...
[12:47] <TheMuso> Oops. I didn't see that.
[12:47] <gnomefreak> imbrandon: you gonna be around tomorrow or in like 15 hours give or take
[12:47] <imbrandon> yup
[12:48] <gnomefreak> can i get with you about the fixes and see if i cant build it
[12:48] <gnomefreak> arouind thanish
[12:48] <imbrandon> sure
[12:48] <gnomefreak> ty
[12:48] <imbrandon> you got anything now? i'll poke at it overnight
[12:48] <imbrandon> ( even broken stuff )
[12:49] <baconbacon> I can't sign anything using nautilus context menus in seahorse 0.9.5. GPA works fine with the same pgp key. 0.9.6 is released upstream and fixes this. Just saying :)
[12:49] <gnomefreak> i tried removing some ( ) and ` ` but no luck so its gotta be something more
[12:50] <LaserJock> baconbacon: heh, "just saying" doesn't really help it get fixed any sooner :-)
[12:50] <LaserJock> baconbacon: bug reports are much more efficient
[12:50] <imbrandon> gnomefreak, honestly, you can make 3 easy changes with a pritine source, change to #!/bin/bash and sh frostwire to bash frostwire and add bash to the control :)
[12:50] <baconbacon> ok but seahorse is not on launchpad
[12:51] <LaserJock> baconbacon: sure it is
[12:51] <gnomefreak> #!/bin/bash will make sh runFrostwire.sh run
[12:51] <LaserJock> baconbacon: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/seahorse
[12:51] <baconbacon> "seahorse does not use Malone as its bug tracker."
[12:52] <gnomefreak> no?
[12:52] <gnomefreak> its in universe it should
[12:52] <imbrandon> thats part of it
[12:52] <LaserJock> baconbacon: well no, Seahorse upstream doesnt
[12:52] <baconbacon> ok!
[12:52] <LaserJock> baconbacon: but you can file a bug on the Ubuntu package
[12:52] <gnomefreak> yeah upstream dont
[12:52] <baconbacon> i see
[12:52] <baconbacon> thanks
[12:53] <gnomefreak> ok its getting to be a bad day here. i will get up with you in morning see if catn get it built right
[12:54] <imbrandon> kk
[01:06] <imbrandon> ugh we really need to speed up pbuilder
[01:08] <crimsun> did I mention it takes 30 minutes to resolve all the build-dependencies for vlc? :)
[01:08] <TheMuso> Ouch.
[01:08] <TheMuso> What speed machine is that on
[01:08] <imbrandon> crimsun, i wouldent doubt it
[01:08] <crimsun> AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 246 2GHz
[01:09] <crimsun> it takes longer to resolve the b-ds than it does to build
[01:09] <imbrandon> yup
[01:09] <Fujitsu> Ooh, Opteron...
[01:09] <Burgwork> zul: you checked out that virt-manager in fc6?
[01:09] <ajmitch> Burgwork: yes, I've got some packages of virt-manager in progress
[01:09] <TheMuso> Wow!
[01:09] <Burgwork> ajmitch: ok, you guys rock
[01:09] <Burgwork> wonder if you could merge virt-manager with the vmware stuff
[01:10] <ajmitch> libvirt is ready, just need to get some of the virtinst stuff ported to ubuntu ways
[01:10] <ajmitch> it's intended to be VM-agnostic
[01:12] <LaserJock> anybody use phpwiki before?
[01:13] <ajmitch> yes
[01:13] <LaserJock> is it any good?
[01:13] <ajmitch> I'm not a big fan
[01:13] <LaserJock> anybody use tikiwiki?
[01:14] <imbrandon> hum whats the virt stuff for ?
[01:14] <LaserJock> I'm trying to compare the 2
[01:14] <imbrandon> tikiwiki sucks imho ( i cant give any valad reasons other than i just dident like it )
[01:14] <imbrandon> valid
[01:14] <ajmitch> imbrandon: xen, vmware
[01:14] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea but umm what does it create dom's or something
[01:15] <ajmitch> yes
[01:15] <imbrandon> ah cool
[01:15] <ajmitch> allocate resources, things like that
[01:15] <imbrandon> very cool, remotely too?
[01:15] <ajmitch> xen allows for live migration between systems
[01:15] <imbrandon> true
[01:16] <ajmitch> I haven't checked if it can use the network socket to talkt to xend
[01:16] <imbrandon> i never quite got how it did that
[01:16] <imbrandon> but it seems cool
[01:21] <imbrandon> ( e.g. the live migration )
[01:21] <Plug> imbrandon: got theme?
[01:22] <imbrandon> yup one sec
[01:23] <ajmitch> imbrandon: btw, I have that full set of beryl packages going
[01:23] <imbrandon> ajmitch, rockin, minda passing some debs here so i can upgrade
[01:23] <ajmitch> imbrandon: basically just hacking around in debian/rules to make stuff executable
[01:24] <ajmitch> or you could remake the tarballs so that they are
[01:24] <imbrandon> ahh ok
[01:27] <imbrandon> Plug, http://federation.imbrandon.com/copyleft.tar.gz
[01:27] <DarkMageZ> is #ubuntu-bugs for all bugs including universe?
[01:27] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ, yes
[01:27] <ajmitch> yay, keybuk writing about automatix
[01:27] <imbrandon> haha yea i seen that
[01:28] <DarkMageZ> ajmitch, in a good or bad light?
[01:28] <imbrandon> hopefully it helps
[01:28] <ajmitch> DarkMageZ: that it's the cause of many upgrade problems
[01:28] <imbrandon> automatix and good in the same sentance ?
[01:28] <ajmitch> as we've been saying for quite awhile
[01:28] <Plug> imbrandon: thanks
[01:28] <imbrandon> Plug, np
[01:28] <DarkMageZ> mmm, someone really needs to put a stop to automatrix, i hear it's worse than what i do
[01:29] <ajmitch> and we still want to lynch you :)
[01:29] <imbrandon> i only redid the css and images, the actual theme is from G2 website ( but all the copyright gpl stuff is in there )
[01:29] <imbrandon> Plug, ^^
[01:29] <Plug> cool
[01:30] <DarkMageZ> anyways, i'd like to bring up the topic of bug #57951
[01:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
[01:31] <ajmitch> DarkMageZ: you may bring it up, do you have a fix for it?
[01:32] <DarkMageZ> ajmitch, well, i rebuilt the package with the stripping of the debugging stuff taken out. so it has a proper trace
[01:33] <ajmitch> apport-retrace is a wonderful tool
[01:33] <Nafallo> ajmitch: there are
[01:34] <DarkMageZ> there are debs of xchat. but none that i could find without the debugging striped from them
[01:34] <DarkMageZ> hence my rebuild
[01:34] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: There are ddebs (debugging debs) which contain the symbols in an alternate repository.
[01:35] <DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, ooo, url?
[01:35] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure, it was posted to -devel-announce a month or so back.
[01:35] <ajmitch> you shouldn't need to know the repository
[01:35] <ajmitch> apport-retrace should do it for you
[01:36] <DarkMageZ> oh that's cute. so those crashes without debugging symbols can be useful
[01:36] <Fujitsu> Ooh, feisty-changes is working now.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Yes, that's the point of them :)
[01:37] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: been working for a while :-)
[01:37] <Nafallo> btw...
[01:37] <Fujitsu> WHere a while <= 12 hours.
[01:38] <Nafallo> Linux darkelf 2.6.19-1-generic #2 SMP Sat Oct 28 05:59:58 UTC 2006 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[01:38] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:38] <Fujitsu> Brave soul you are.
[01:38] <Nafallo> hehe
[01:38] <Nafallo> the fun haven't started yet though ;-)
[01:39] <ajmitch> Nafallo: yeah, I've got it on my laptop
[01:39] <ajmitch> BenC said it's fairly stable, but missing a few things like LRM
[01:40] <Nafallo> I've never used LRM anyway :-)
[01:40] <ajmitch> 10:33 < BenC> if you don't need any special drivers (like ibm-acpi) or LRM (ipw3945, ati, nvidia, madwifi), then you can probably install it now
[01:40] <bhale> i cant live w/o lrm
[01:40] <bhale> intel wifi
[01:40] <ajmitch> bhale: ipw3945?
[01:40] <Nafallo> rt2500 :-)
[01:40] <bhale> ajmitch: yes
[01:40] <ajmitch> his next line, of course
[01:40] <ajmitch> 10:34 < BenC> and even for ipw3945, it's as simple as copying existing /sbin/ipw3945d-*
[01:40] <bhale> heh
[01:41] <ajmitch> 2.6.19 still isn't for general consumption, but it should be there soon
[01:41] <bhale> yeah.
[01:41] <bhale> it usually takes him about 3 tries
[01:41] <bhale> for him to get it right
[01:41] <ajmitch> 'by UDS', he hopes
[01:42] <Nafallo> baah. already works. I haven't seen any difference from 2.6.17 :-P
[01:42] <ajmitch> Nafallo: it shouldn't be very different
[01:43] <Nafallo> naah. the changelog only synced lots of stuff :-)
[01:43] <imbrandon> ajmitch, its sent a few early today
[01:43] <imbrandon> 3 packages i think, kernel, basefiles and debootstrap
[01:43] <ajmitch> I should check procmail rules then
[01:44] <zul> whoop...time to update then ;)
[01:44] <ajmitch> bah
[01:44] <bhale> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/2006-October/thread.html
[01:44] <ajmitch> someone smack around people who abuse launchpad specs
[01:44] <imbrandon> yup yup, memory was good in this case :)
[01:44] <imbrandon> ajmitch, heh , like ?
[01:45] <ajmitch> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/beagle-integration
[01:45] <ajmitch> "use tracker"
[01:45] <zul> imbrandon: drinking still?
[01:45] <imbrandon> zul, i've only had a few , otherwise i think i would be crying
[01:45] <imbrandon> crown + coke is great for that :)
[01:46] <imbrandon> i did go buy a bottle of crown this afternoon though
[01:46] <ajmitch> From feisty-changes-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com Tue Oct 31 02:19:13 2006
[01:46] <ajmitch>  Subject: Accepted base-files 3.1.16ubuntu1 (source)
[01:46] <ajmitch>   Folder: launchpad                                                        6162
[01:46] <ajmitch> no wonder
[01:46] <imbrandon> ouch
[01:47] <ajmitch> List-Id pattern changed from previous releases
[01:48] <imbrandon> yea i havent setup a procmail rule yet, i guess i should do that now
[01:49] <imbrandon> they just hit my inbox
[01:49] <ajmitch> doing a regex match on ~160K message headers takes a little while
[01:50] <imbrandon> heh
[01:50] <ajmitch> 840MB mbox file for ubuntu bug mail
[01:51] <TheMuso> Ouch.
[01:51] <ajmitch> it's probably a little large
[01:51] <zul> brb
[01:52] <imbrandon> :0:
[01:52] <imbrandon> * ^(To|Cc).*feisty-changes
[01:52] <imbrandon> $HOME/Maildir/.feisty-changes/
[01:52] <imbrandon> that works for me , heh
[01:52] <ajmitch> yeah, I match on X-BeenThere or List-Id
[01:54] <Fujitsu> List-Id is generally a better idea.
[01:55] <LaserJock> I just do: * ^TO_feisty-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
[01:56] <LaserJock> although I haven't gotten any mail yet
[01:57] <imbrandon> unless you sent it to /dev/null
[01:58] <imbrandon> :)
[01:58] <LaserJock> darn, am I not subscribed?
[01:59] <LaserJock> do we need to subscribe to it?
[01:59] <ajmitch> yes
[01:59] <LaserJock> I thought it was automatic
[01:59] <imbrandon> nope
[02:00] <LaserJock> it was for breezy -> dapper I think
[02:00] <LaserJock> but that was way back in the olden days
[02:02] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU <-- comments, please
[02:02] <ajmitch> it only has minor modifications from the policy for main at the moment
[02:03] <LaserJock> what's with the \'s
[02:03] <ajmitch> bad cut & paste, let me fix that
[02:05] <ajmitch> hm, the indenting for the list may need fixed as well
[02:06] <ajmitch> cleared it up
[02:06] <ajmitch> comments please :)
[02:06] <ajmitch> & then I'll post to the list about it for discussion
[02:07] <LaserJock> ok, well my first reaction is that we should allow more updates
[02:07] <LaserJock> i.e. broken packages
[02:08] <LaserJock> I consider uninstallable or unusable as high-impact
[02:08] <imbrandon> yea
[02:08] <ajmitch> alright
[02:08] <ajmitch> I'm more willing to be lenient as well
[02:08] <ajmitch> what about new upstream versions fixing problems/>
[02:09] <imbrandon> hrm i would say UVF for -backports
[02:09] <LaserJock> hmm, I think maybe the SRU review team might have to tackle that one
[02:09] <imbrandon> and -updates for fixes
[02:09] <LaserJock> sometimes a new upstream is a much easier and bug free way to fix the bug
[02:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: like dmraid
[02:09] <Fujitsu> I'd be rather reluctant for that, ajmitch. Except for cases like that transcalc one where it currently crashes on startup, but the new version fixes that.
[02:09] <LaserJock> rather then trying to backport all the fixes to the current version
[02:09] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: it would be case-by-case, not a general policy of being OK
[02:09] <LaserJock> I think for sure it should be avoided
[02:10] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:10] <imbrandon> right but if we allow that we're opening a pandoras box
[02:10] <imbrandon> right
[02:10] <ajmitch> imbrandon: ok, what do you want to do with dmraid?
[02:10] <LaserJock> we already have a pandoras box
[02:10] <ajmitch> as an example
[02:10] <LaserJock> we're just trying to close the box a bit ;-)
[02:10] <imbrandon> ajmitch, no i agree as a case by case
[02:10] <ajmitch> fine
[02:11] <ajmitch> add some of these comments to the bottom of the page, if you can
[02:11] <LaserJock> but I think it can be in the policy that we seek to minimize the changes
[02:11] <ajmitch>  we can take it to the -motu list
[02:11] <ajmitch> I'd rather it not just be me dictating to the MOTUs what will happen :)
[02:11] <LaserJock> oh why not
[02:11] <LaserJock> you know what you're doing
[02:12] <zul> its almost manager like
[02:12] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:12] <bddebian> ajmitch the Supreme MOTU Dictator!
[02:12] <imbrandon> lol
[02:13] <ajmitch> bddebian: nah, I'm not even close to deity level
[02:13] <bddebian> But you can be like Kim Jong Il and believe that you are God ;-P
[02:14] <ajmitch> um ok
[02:14] <imbrandon> lol
[02:14] <ajmitch> anyway, do we think the testing period is long enough? too short?
[02:14] <imbrandon> other than the few things mentioned already looks good to me
[02:14] <ajmitch> there'll need to be some feedback mechanism for testing
[02:14] <imbrandon> 7 days? seems ok as long as people know
[02:14] <ajmitch> rather than just announce to the list & get silence for 7 days
[02:15] <LaserJock> I'm not convinced that a time based criteria is going to give much testing
[02:15] <ajmitch> that's what I owrry about
[02:15] <ajmitch> there may be packages that very few people would test
[02:15] <imbrandon> well some volenteers have formed #kubuntu-testers , i'm sure we could caox them into full time testings possibly
[02:15] <LaserJock> I can easily upload a science package that won't get tested at all for 7 days
[02:16] <DarkMageZ> how about getting the people who filed the bug to test it?
[02:16] <LaserJock> although with a stable release I can poke the "Education and Science" subforum to test -proposed
[02:16] <ajmitch> although I'm the only member of the team at the moment, I don't expect that I have any right to be in it
[02:17] <ajmitch> I just wanted it created
[02:17] <LaserJock> what team?
[02:17] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Why not? You're pretty much a god anyway.
[02:17] <imbrandon> ajmitch, why not, i would say you do
[02:17] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: motu-sru
[02:17] <LaserJock> oh
[02:17] <LaserJock> well we can fix that
[02:17] <LaserJock> although I was kinda of hoping to redo some of the teams
[02:17] <LaserJock> we have a ton of teams
[02:17] <ajmitch> yeah, I'll pass on ownership to whoever will run the team
[02:18] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we can argue about that later
[02:18] <LaserJock> fine :-)
[02:18] <imbrandon> heh
[02:18] <LaserJock> I was just thinking it might be better to have a larger "motu-review" team
[02:18] <LaserJock> that handles UVFs, SRUs, etc.
[02:19] <LaserJock> that way it's maybe less confusing and possibly spreads the work out
[02:19] <ajmitch> I didn't think it'd necessarily be great to have the same people doing everything
[02:19] <LaserJock> yeah, that's a point for sure
[02:19] <ajmitch> I considered just having the motu-uvf team, which already handled uvf exceptions & then general freeze exceptions
[02:19] <imbrandon> i wouldent mind helping with SRU's once a policy was setup etc, but i'm no where near qualified to run / own it
[02:19] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: It wouldn't be, no; but we need more-god-like people for SRU than UVF, and all the gods are already in UVF.
[02:19] <ajmitch> it's possible to have a team that they're both part of
[02:20] <LaserJock> anyway, that's not a big deal right now
[02:20] <imbrandon> right
[02:21] <LaserJock> another thought is to have a "vote" rather then time system for testing
[02:22] <LaserJock> the problem there is it becoming like REVU and having updates sitting in -proposed for a month
[02:22] <ajmitch> I agree
[02:22] <LaserJock> I think probably 7 days is best
[02:22] <ajmitch> there may not be that many updates
[02:23] <ajmitch> and it's a lot easier to process debdiffs than to do a comprehensive review of a new package
[02:23] <LaserJock> true
[02:24] <LaserJock> well you could do sort of a combination
[02:24] <ajmitch> write this down please :)
[02:24] <LaserJock> a package would be automatically ready for -updates if it's been in -proposed for 7 days
[02:24] <imbrandon> speaking of comprehensive reviews, anyone up for looking at a proper gnash package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3367
[02:25] <LaserJock> OR it's been tested and acked by X number of MOTUs
[02:25] <imbrandon> like migration from unstable to testing
[02:26] <LaserJock> so stuff that it urgent and something that lots of MOTUs would already be inclined to test then it can go through faster
[02:26] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That does sound like a good idea.
[02:26] <ajmitch> still has the problem of packages not being tested
[02:27] <LaserJock> well, but if you have to have X votes then that at least gives you more testing then just uploading
[02:27] <LaserJock> a vote system might give a little motivation for testing
[02:27] <ajmitch> certainly, so you need a minimum number of testers in the 7 days
[02:27] <LaserJock> right
[02:27] <ajmitch> more testers means shorter time needed in testing
[02:27] <LaserJock> more or less
[02:28] <imbrandon> right by how does one sign on that they have tested it>
[02:28] <imbrandon> s/by/but
[02:28] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Comment on the bug, I presume.
[02:28] <ajmitch> as Fujitsu said
[02:28] <LaserJock> well, we could do a ubuntu-dev poll
[02:28] <ajmitch> that would require a poll for every update
[02:28] <LaserJock> but probably comment is better
[02:28] <ajmitch> keep it informal
[02:28] <LaserJock> sure
[02:28] <imbrandon> a poll for every update would suck
[02:29] <Fujitsu> Having polls integrated into bugs would be useful in this case.
[02:29] <LaserJock> anyway, I *do* want to keep this a light and "red-tape" free as we can make it
[02:29] <Fujitsu> There's been enough red tape already :P
[02:29] <LaserJock> while still giving a little more assurance to our users that we test these things
[02:31] <imbrandon> i'm thinking if its ACK'd by a MOTU/core-dev ( incase the diff is done by a non-MOTU ) and then "approved" for uploading to -proposed by the SRU team , it gets tested by atleaste 5 comments in 7 days , if 5 comments is not met in the 7 days it sits and waits will it gets 5 testers, if it gets 5 testers in the first 3 days it still has to sit for 4 more in -proposed as a minimum ( for more testing too )
[02:31] <imbrandon> that would be real informal but make sure its all dont and checked
[02:32] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: we drown in red tape..
[02:32] <ajmitch> imbrandon: ok, write that as a comment at the end
[02:32] <imbrandon> ok
[02:33] <LaserJock> hmm, I would probably just leave it at 5 comments it goes to -updates otherwise 7 days
[02:33] <imbrandon> basicly i'm saying it has to be in -proposed at leaste 7 days , but could be longer if not gotten 5 people to say "ok this works for me"
[02:33] <imbrandon> rember we're talking a stable release not a UVFe
[02:34] <LaserJock> yeah, and I'm saying 7 days maybe should be the longest
[02:34] <ajmitch> but you still need a minimum number of testers
[02:34] <LaserJock> ok, well how about this ...
[02:34] <imbrandon> LaserJock, then what if i upload to -poposed and it sits there 7 days but no one tested it
[02:35] <imbrandon> that wouldent be good
[02:35] <LaserJock> then it goes to -updates :-)
[02:35] <LaserJock> well considering that right now it goes to -updates without *any* testing
[02:35] <LaserJock> we aren't making it less tested ;-)
[02:36] <imbrandon> yea but i dont think 5 ( out of thousands or more of people ) to say "it works for me" is alot
[02:36] <LaserJock> sure
[02:36] <imbrandon> even for unused packages
[02:36] <LaserJock> but it beats nothing
[02:36] <imbrandon> s/unused/obscure
[02:37] <imbrandon> anyone got the lock before i edit ?
[02:38] <LaserJock> ok, let me reread what you proposed
[02:39] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I say a minimum of 2 testers to get into updates
[02:39] <ajmitch> 5 may be a few for some packages
[02:39] <ajmitch> eg some zope stuff I want to fix - it requires that someone setup a zope instance, install products, etc
[02:39] <ajmitch> not trivial
[02:40] <LaserJock> ok, how about 10 gets you out in less then 7 days, 2 minimum period?
[02:40] <LaserJock> if something's hot and everybody wants it then 10 MOTU can test it and get it asap
[02:41] <Fujitsu> So, 10 ACKS gets you a get-out-out-of--proposed-free card, and anything less than 2 gets rejected?
[02:41] <ajmitch> we can tweak the numbers
[02:41] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: yeah
[02:41] <Fujitsu> That sounds like a good policy.
[02:41] <ajmitch> the general policy should work, the numbers can be debated
[02:41] <ajmitch> eg it may be 3 & 8
[02:41] <LaserJock> yeah, and I don't think less then 2 should get rejected out of hand
[02:41] <LaserJock> it just won't go to -updates
[02:42] <LaserJock> it'll sit in -proposed until it gets 2
[02:43] <Fujitsu> Argh, REVU!
[02:43] <Fujitsu> This is turning into REVU, really...
[02:43] <imbrandon> ok i added those comments to the bottom, tweak the numbers at will ajmitch / LaserJock / Fujitsu
[02:43] <Fujitsu> They'll sit there for months...
[02:43] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: so get reviewing :)
[02:43] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, not really , rember this is for existing packages that someone cares about becouse there are bugs filed
[02:44] <imbrandon> and its stable released
[02:44] <ajmitch> and a single MOTU should be able to veto a broken update
[02:44] <Fujitsu> Shall I add the 10 ACKS gets you out of -proposed immediately note to the bottom of the page.
[02:44] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: of course.
[02:45] <ajmitch> so even if you have 5 ACKs, someone should be able to say it's crack & broken
[02:45] <imbrandon> yea
[02:45] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so yeah, I finally got off my behind & wrote up something for you :)
[02:47] <imbrandon> ok LaserJock / ajmitch / Fujitsu , look over my crack now http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3367
[02:47] <imbrandon> :)
[02:47] <LaserJock> ajmitch: thank you very much sir
[02:48] <LaserJock> imbrandon: ok, so you'e saying 7 days minimum?
[02:48] <LaserJock> and 5 votes minimum?
[02:49] <imbrandon> LaserJock, that was my initial idea, i dont think 7 days is long to wait even for a "must have fix"
[02:49] <LaserJock> for some reason you're "if it gets 5 testers in the first 3 days" part keeps confusing me
[02:49] <imbrandon> personal
[02:50] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ok here is a same workflow with that case ....
[02:50] <imbrandon> i post a debdiff to a bug
[02:50] <imbrandon> 6 people post that "it works for me" in the first 24 hours
[02:50] <imbrandon> and they tested the debdiff
[02:51] <imbrandon> it still sits in -proposed for 7 days ( not only for other motu's to look at it to make sure its not crack to veto it , but also to make sure its tested by a large number of people becouse if it gets 6 in the first 24hours its likely to effect a large number of people )
[02:52] <imbrandon> so a minimum of 5 testers and a munimum of 7 days
[02:52] <imbrandon> both must be met
[02:52] <LaserJock> well, I was thinking that only MOTU votes would count
[02:52] <LaserJock> so I was thinking 5 MOTU all saying they tested and ack it
[02:53] <LaserJock> probably gives a pretty reasonable testing
[02:53] <LaserJock> but I see where you are coming from
[02:53] <imbrandon> with how over taxed we are i dont think thats good, look at revu, i think a ACK by a motu or core dev is enough
[02:53] <imbrandon> one to get it into testing and only one to take it out
[02:53] <ajmitch> remember that the current suggestion has the debdiff passing before the reviewing team as well
[02:53] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: As was mentioned earlier, SRU is a lot less taxing than REVU, because they're generally only small debdiffs.
[02:54] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yes but also effect a larger number of people too as its a stable release
[02:54] <LaserJock> yeah, and all we're asking for is testing
[02:54] <ajmitch> imbrandon: so you have to get 1 vote on the debdiff at least before even going to -proposed
[02:54] <LaserJock> it also isn't Main
[02:54] <imbrandon> yea not a "review" of it, thats done by the one MOTU and the SRU team, the testing is only "works for me" stuff
[02:55] <LaserJock> 5 MOTUs saying "it works for me" isn't bad I don't think
[02:55] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea the "ack" from a MOTU or core dev ( other than the debdiff maker )
[02:55] <LaserJock> I guess there isn't a real reason for the test "acks" to be only from MOTUs
[02:56] <LaserJock> I do think there should be an exception for 7 days for -updates regressions
[02:56] <imbrandon> well i had it envisioned like this
[02:56] <LaserJock> but I'm guessing that won't happen if they are properly tested
[02:56] <imbrandon> the "ack" is really only for non-motus
[02:56] <imbrandon> say i personaly make a debdiff , i can subscribe SRU team directly
[02:57] <imbrandon> becouse i'ma  MOTU/core
[02:57] <imbrandon> and the aSRU says "yes upload to proposed"
[02:57] <LaserJock> ok, but how are non-MOTUs going to know to ack it?
[02:57] <ajmitch> the overworked, stressed out SRU team that cries "oh no, not another one!" & sobs quietly ;)
[02:57] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you ask for testers on the bug report
[02:58] <imbrandon> once its uploaded to proposed we send a call for testers to ML and #kubuntu-testers
[02:58] <ajmitch> people who have run into the problem should be subscribed to the bug
[02:58] <imbrandon> and the people subscruibed to the repoet\
[02:58] <imbrandon> right
[02:59] <imbrandon> this way it gets the testing , its a TON of red tape, and it wont sit in the que for ages but enoughto resonably say its been tested
[02:59] <imbrandon> not a TON
[02:59] <imbrandon> typo
[02:59] <LaserJock> ok, make it so Mr. Sulu ;-)
[03:00] <imbrandon> i'm afraid if we have 10 "it works for me" in 2 days then upload we'll have alot more broken ones
[03:00] <imbrandon> thus the both 5 testeers and 7 days must be met
[03:00] <LaserJock> well sure
[03:01] <imbrandon> and in reality even for whiners 7 days isnt long ( and i'm sure the whiners will be the first to grab -proposed )
[03:01] <LaserJock> but my point was that right now we have a 0 tester and 0 days  SRU policy
[03:01] <LaserJock> so *anything* is going to work
[03:01] <imbrandon> true
[03:02] <LaserJock> but if it's just general acks on the bug report I think your idea is good
[03:02] <lifeless> seems to me that you want to ensure that:
[03:02] <LaserJock> and the main point is to have some kind of SRU policy asap
[03:02] <Hobbsee> hey all
[03:02] <lifeless>  - if there are no testers other than the requestor you still do upload it
[03:02] <lifeless>  - it should get a review if theres any doubt about the fix at all
[03:03] <lifeless>  - number of days isn't really relevant, its eyeballs and usage.
[03:04] <LaserJock> lifeless: I think our issue is how to gauge eyeballs and usage
[03:04] <LaserJock> I'm guessing the number of people using -proposed isn't great
[03:05] <LaserJock> and many of our packages aren't used by a great deal of people anyway
[03:05] <imbrandon> i think the initial ack or upload  by MOTU and the initial eyeballs by the SRU team then 5 general ack's we'll be golden
[03:06] <LaserJock> without any minimum days?
[03:06] <imbrandon> possibly, the more i think about it, what do you and ajmitch think ?
[03:07] <imbrandon> acked/made by a MOTU , eyeballed by SRU for upload to -proposed , 5 general "works for me" to upload to -updates
[03:07] <imbrandon> no days involved
[03:08] <LaserJock> I think that would be a good start, if we find that it isn't catching enough problems we can always change it
[03:08] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I like that.
[03:09] <Fujitsu> And, as LaserJock says, we can change it if it's letting problems through.
[03:09] <imbrandon> yup
[03:09] <imbrandon> ajmitch, care to chime in ?
[03:09] <imbrandon> ( or anyone else )
[03:10] <imbrandon> lemme update my comment on the bootom of that page
[03:11] <Fujitsu> We need to somehow get a large subset of MOTU to give their +1 on this policy... But how? Mailing list?
[03:14] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:14] <ajmitch> imbrandon: sorry, was distracted by other stuff :)
[03:14] <LaserJock> we'll pass it by -motu when we are done here
[03:14] <imbrandon> almost done
[03:14] <imbrandon> one sec
[03:14] <ajmitch> imbrandon: great
[03:14] <ajmitch> so I didn't even have to do much, just throw it out there for comments :)
[03:17] <imbrandon> ok LaserJock Fujitsu ajmitch check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU at the bottom for my last comments to make sure its what we talked about
[03:18] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Looks good.
[03:18] <lifeless> pity launchpad doesn't do voting yet ;)
[03:19] <Fujitsu> lifeless: It does, but only on teams.
[03:19] <lifeless> Fujitsu: do you mean for membership ?
[03:19] <Fujitsu> lifeless: No, for team-related matters, only voteable by team members.
[03:19] <lifeless> all the motus are in a team
[03:20] <lifeless> so why cant we use that ?
[03:20] <LaserJock> cause it's a pain
[03:20] <LaserJock> LP polls aren't very user friendly
[03:21] <LaserJock> I did one for MOTU
[03:21] <Fujitsu> We can stuff around on staging, can't we?
[03:21] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ?
[03:21] <imbrandon> we tried some for the IRC OP team , they arent easy to use
[03:22] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: staging.launchpad.net. I believe it's meant for testing out various features, and it's OK to stuff around with... So I'm going to create a team+poll so I can see just how terrible it is :P
[03:23] <lifeless> staging has a separate database
[03:23] <Fujitsu> ... except that staging is down.
[03:23] <lifeless> its doing a db copy from production right now
[03:23] <lifeless> (about this time of day daily)
[03:23] <Fujitsu> I knew it was on a separate DB, hence it being usable for stuffing around.
[03:24] <Fujitsu> lifeless: That'd take a while to copy, wouldn't it?
[03:24] <ajmitch> lifeless: as our quality czar, what comments do you have on the update procedure?
[03:24] <lifeless> :)
[03:24] <lifeless> let me read the current draft
[03:24] <ajmitch> thanks :)
[03:25] <lifeless> the why -
[03:25] <Fujitsu> lifeless: The proposed process is imbrandon's final set of comments down the bottom, the process anywhere else on the page is outdated.
[03:26] <ajmitch> not outdated, but it was the initial suggestion, based on the policy for main
[03:26] <lifeless> seems to me we should say something like 'For packages in the Universe & Multiverse component, whilst they are not "supported", we should still endeavour to offer a smooth and reliable environment'
[03:26] <lifeless> that is, popularity, and number of users are not really significant factors in assessing regression impact: we have millions of users.
[03:27] <lifeless> a small % is still a lot
[03:27] <imbrandon> true
[03:27] <ajmitch> including spelling mistakes
[03:28] <Fujitsu> Having a go at universe upgradability..
[03:28] <lifeless> the when - indirectly causing loss of data counts too IMO
[03:28] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: why? universe is plenty broken
[03:28] <ajmitch> lifeless: for example?
[03:29] <lifeless> ajmitch: the current page says '... may directly cause...'
[03:29] <Fujitsu> He said in his blog post that installing stuff from outside main is likely to cause upgrade issues.
[03:29] <ajmitch> yes, copied from the policy for main
[03:29] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: that can be quite true
[03:29] <ajmitch> admit it, universe is a mess
[03:29] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, and its very true, all of universe isnt well tested
[03:30] <lifeless> ajmitch: hmm. well I think users will be unhappy to think that indirect data loss is considered 'ok'
[03:30] <ajmitch> we can't test it nearly as well as main
[03:30] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: I wouldn't say `likely', though. I've upgraded a number of systems Hoary->Breezy->Dapper->Edgy, and none of them have had issues with universe stuff.
[03:30] <ajmitch> lifeless: the problem being that indirect data loss could be vague
[03:30] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: you haven't installed the right set of broken packages then
[03:30] <lifeless> so dont discriminate.
[03:30] <lifeless> just say 'cause data loss'
[03:30] <ajmitch> alright
[03:30] <lifeless> its not a legal contract, we dont need to be painful with it
[03:31] <ajmitch> the policy for main is likely to be more restrictive, so it makes sense
[03:33] <lifeless> imbrandon: is the SRU team restricted? or any MOTU can join ? If any MOTU, why not say 'any motu can upload to -proposed'
[03:33] <lifeless> ?
[03:33] <imbrandon> SRU team is restricted , likely to be made up of a few core-dev's but hasent been made yet
[03:33] <imbrandon> well its made but no members yet
[03:34] <imbrandon> like the motu-uvf team
[03:34] <lifeless> but its universe specific right? dont need to be a main uploader to join ?
[03:34] <imbrandon> right
[03:34] <lifeless> ok.
[03:34] <lifeless> so I think we need to look at scalability and friction here
[03:35] <lifeless> the more friction, the more work, and the more centralised, the less scalable
[03:35] <imbrandon> yea
[03:35] <lifeless> we've got 16K packages to deal with, so low friction and decentralised are quite important
[03:35] <ajmitch> of course
[03:35] <lifeless> what are the key objectives of the process ? The SRU policy does not articulate them.
[03:35] <lifeless> I would expect them to be something like :
[03:36] <lifeless>  - Fix regressions, security vulnerabilities and dataloss [aka severe]  bugs in stable ubuntu releases.
[03:37] <lifeless>  - Do so without introducing new regressions or otherwise causing destabilisation in the stable release.
[03:37] <ajmitch> all that should go in the "why" section
[03:37] <lifeless> well its not 'why do updates', its 'why this process is written like it is'
[03:38] <lifeless> but sure, it should go somewhere
[03:40] <lifeless> so, I think that having a special team to do the -proposed upload is unneeded friction : how does it help with either of my two points ?
[03:40] <imbrandon> no not to do the acutal uploads, any motu can "upload" the SRU just needs to say its "ok" like a UVF
[03:40] <lifeless> OTOH I think having a time window for testing is a useful caution - it allows wider testing than just a 'X people have looked'
[03:41] <lifeless> imbrandon: in your comments 'SRU Team "ok's" it for upload to -proposed and testing begins..'
[03:41] <lifeless> I like the veto idea, I think that drives for consensus on the fix
[03:41] <imbrandon> right they just "OK" it , the MOTU that ACK'd physicaly it uploads it
[03:41] <imbrandon> like the way UVFe's are done
[03:42] <lifeless> I dont get the need for the handshaking. If they are a MOTU, then they can judge whether its ready or not to go to -proposed, and its in -proposed that testing will take place, so why the need for the SRU to 'ok' it at all at this point ?
[03:42] <imbrandon> basicly to make sure atleaste one other set of eye balls have sais "yes this qualifies for -proposed"
[03:43] <lifeless> I suggest you reverse the test
[03:43] <lifeless> a MOTU who is happy with it sends it to -proposed. Then if its really not ready reject it at that point: optimise for the common case, not the uncommon case.
[03:43] <lifeless> The common case should be that MOTU's sending stuff to -proposed know whats going on.
[03:43] <imbrandon> right ok i see
[03:44] <ajmitch> it'd reduce the waiting on the the SRU team, at least
[03:44] <Lathiat> im impressed, i dist-upgraded to edgy and it booted perfectly first time
[03:44] <imbrandon> soo it would work like this ......
[03:44] <imbrandon> ok
[03:44] <Lathiat> including X w/ nvidia
[03:44] <Fujitsu> Lathiat: Don't be impressed. That's normal.
[03:44] <Lathiat> Fujitsu: upgrades and me tend not to get along ;p
[03:44] <imbrandon> any MOTU uploads a debdiff to -proposed, and gets hte 5 testers, once it is tested and working in proposed the SRU gets subscribed and "ok"s it for -updates
[03:45] <imbrandon> lifeless, ajmitch ^^
[03:45] <imbrandon> that what you mean?>
[03:45] <lifeless> I think the short circuit on 'X people are happy' is possibly problematic - the reason for a delay is to get testing on heterogenous configurations, but if 10 folk with the same setup all crowd in going "we're happy" you wont get that. So have a time delay and have it non short-circuitable except if the SRU team feel there are extenuating circumstances (i.e. remote root vulnerability)
[03:45] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: That sounds OK, it minimises the waiting on the SRU team, as ajmitch said.
[03:46] <lifeless> imbrandon: yes, thats a smoother process.
[03:46] <ajmitch> getting stuff into -proposed is good, and you'll still have the extra eyes of the SRU team for the final check
[03:46] <imbrandon> right ok, and add back the time like lifeless said, that makes sense
[03:47] <imbrandon> unless its for -security and pitti will speed that up
[03:47] <ajmitch> yes, -security is special
[03:47] <Fujitsu> SRU doesn't apply to -security at all, it's a completely different process.
[03:47] <ajmitch> though I'm not sure what currently happens for security updates to packages in -updates
[03:47] <imbrandon> right
[03:48] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: They go in -security, not -updates...
[03:48] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, but if the -updates version is higher?
[03:48] <imbrandon> same as normal -security i would imagine
[03:48] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: A good question...
[03:48] <ajmitch> we won't worry about that right now
[03:48] <imbrandon> it wouldent happen as -updates is on by default install
[03:49] <imbrandon> so security would get applied to the -updates version
[03:49] <imbrandon> in -security
[03:49] <imbrandon> ( plus most security updates are to main )
[03:49] <ajmitch> lifeless: thanks for the feedback
[03:49] <lifeless> now, what I also suggest is a couple of extra steps
[03:49] <lifeless> right now there is no feedback loop
[03:50] <lifeless> I think the SRU team should be subscribed at -proposed stage, and stay subscribed *to the package* for 2 weeks after the update.
[03:50] <ajmitch> set as bug contact?
[03:50] <lifeless> yup
[03:50] <lifeless> or something similar
[03:51] <Fujitsu> The main policy is that the author of the debdiff is bug contact for a few weeks afterwards.
[03:51] <lifeless> if there are regressions let through by this, then we cna expect to see them in the first week or two of the update being released
[03:51] <imbrandon> right , i'm thinking the author ( eg the uploading MOTU )
[03:52] <lifeless> AIUI the author is just a regular MOTU, may not be around or available - and if it needs reverting, we want to act fast. Having a team react is faster than an individual - if they are working well.
[03:52] <lifeless> OTOH individual responsbility is easier to point at ;)
[03:53] <ajmitch> we regularly have MOTUs that drop off the face of the planet
[03:53] <imbrandon> true
[03:53] <LaserJock> ajmitch: what?!?
[03:53] <imbrandon> but if they are there for the update another 7 or 14 days
[03:53] <LaserJock> :-)
[03:53] <imbrandon> its not like they are comming from hibernation to watch it
[03:54] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it's easy for someone to be away for a few days, just at the wrong time
[03:54] <imbrandon> true
[03:54] <ajmitch> so having the team still be subscribed can be good
[03:55] <ajmitch> whether the team wasnt to receive the mail for all the bugs for that package is another matter :)
[03:55] <lifeless> ideally we could just say 'this package has been put into a stable upload, for the next two weeks they get flagged with all bugs', *without* changing the bug contact.
[03:56] <ajmitch> there's a lot of things we could ideally do :)
[03:56] <imbrandon> :)
[03:58] <DarkMageZ> ajmitch, how condemned is easyubuntu?
[03:58] <lifeless> anyhow, the basic point is that : random MOTUS will initiate the process, and the SRU teams role is to say 'ok' after the time period, and *also* to initiate a revert if needed : which means they must be in contact for some small period after the upload.
[03:59] <imbrandon> right
[03:59] <imbrandon> sounds sane
[03:59] <imbrandon> ok updating the comments on the bottom once more ......
[04:00] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i'm going to wipe both mine and yours and combine all this
[04:00] <imbrandon> ok?
[04:01] <lifeless> from a QC perspective, what we need to aim for in any process is some form of feedback cycle, so that you know its working as desired. Thats all that was missing before :)
[04:09] <imbrandon> ok LaserJock Fujitsu ajmitch lifeless ( last big ping of the night ) i updated the comments once again at the bottom to reflect
[04:09] <imbrandon> comments to make sure its what we talked about welcome
[04:10] <ajmitch> thanks
[04:10] <ajmitch> sorry, I was caught up with work stuff
[04:10] <imbrandon> np
[04:10] <imbrandon> i only updated the comments if you wanna touch the upper part
[04:10] <ajmitch> ok
[04:11] <LaserJock> sounds good guys
[04:12] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yes, it's OK to wipe it (was eating lunch)
[04:13] <imbrandon> heh i was hoping, i did it anyhow , figured you could get the revisions if needed :)
[04:13] <imbrandon> the comments should now reflect what we all kinda fleshed out
[04:13] <Fujitsu> Yup, looks good.
[04:15] <imbrandon> ok Fujitsu and other super MOTU's http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3367
[04:15] <imbrandon> hahaha
[04:16] <TheMuso> What wiki page is it? I've been in and out, and haven't really been able to follow.
[04:16] <ajmitch> TheMuso: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
[04:16] <Fujitsu> s/other //
[04:16] <imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
[04:16] <TheMuso> ajThanks.
[04:16] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Thanks.
[04:16] <ajmitch> imbrandon: well, that's me out of reviewing
[04:16] <imbrandon> ajmitch, and you too
[04:17] <imbrandon> :)
[04:17] <ajmitch> imbrandon: SRU & MOTU are subscribed to the package, not just the bug
[04:17] <imbrandon> err yea, my mistake
[04:17] <ajmitch> ah
[04:17] <ajmitch> funny
[04:17] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkAuthentication/Client/Interface
[04:18] <imbrandon> HAHAHA
[04:18] <Fujitsu> Hahha.
[04:18] <ajmitch> yeah, we're working on specs
[04:25] <LaserJock> darn, I messed up an experiment
[04:25] <LaserJock> I hate that when that happens
[04:26] <imbrandon> heh
[04:26] <LaserJock> I should have written an interface for the control box for the photelastic modulator
[04:26] <LaserJock> oh well
[04:28] <lifeless> imbrandon: looks good to me
[04:30] <Nafallo> gnight
[04:30] <imbrandon> huh ?
[04:30] <imbrandon> gnight
[04:31] <LaserJock> ok, shall we send an email to -motu now?
[04:34] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Looks like it.
[04:35] <Fujitsu> I can do it in a few minutes, if you wish
[04:37] <LaserJock> excellent
[04:44] <LaserJock> ajmitch: wasn't that the idea? ;-)
[04:44] <imbrandon> lol
[04:51] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yeah, I think I'll retire now :)
[05:05] <psusi> where did the wiki page listing packages that FTBS go?  I search for ftbs on the wiki and it comes back with 0 matches... is the search broken?
[05:06] <psusi> I know there was a page at some point listing all those packages in universe that ftbs on build daemons
[05:08] <imbrandon> no, as far as i know thats only tracked on LP , it would be rather redundant on the wiki i would think
[05:08] <LaserJock> it used to be on the wiki
[05:08] <psusi> I swear it was on the wiki before lp, but heck if that's where it is now, got the url handy?
[05:09] <LaserJock> we don't have a good FTBFS list currently I don't think
[05:10] <psusi> oh god, you are kidding?
[05:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: well, I've got one, lucas built one
[05:10] <LaserJock> ah
[05:11] <LaserJock> how current are they?
[05:11] <ajmitch> psusi: why do you say that?
[05:11] <ajmitch> LaserJock: a week or so before release
[05:11] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: A couple of weeks.
[05:11] <LaserJock> k
[05:11] <ajmitch> psusi: the FTBFS list can only be generated by a full archive rebuild
[05:11] <LaserJock> I was kinda thinking somebody did one a few weeks ago
[05:11] <ajmitch> yes, lucas did
[05:11] <LaserJock> oh yeah, lucas and his 40 node cluster
[05:11] <LaserJock> shesh
[05:11] <ajmitch> and I've got all the mail from fabbione's sparc rebuild
[05:11] <psusi> I'm updating the old bug on how the defrag package FTBS on amd64 due to a conflict between the e2fsprogs package and the kernel headers... and it looks like we have a -8 source in edgy, but packages.ubuntu.com still only shows the -7 i386 binary
[05:12] <ajmitch> his little 32-thread sun box
[05:12] <psusi> so I'm wondering if it FTBS now even on i386
[05:12] <ajmitch> psusi: rebuild it & test
[05:12] <LaserJock> well, you can check on a per-package basis on LP
[05:12] <psusi> ajmitch, fails to build for me on amd64
[05:13] <imbrandon> p.u.o is out of date often, you can check a per package on LP
[05:13] <psusi> that is after I rebuilt my pbuilder environment for a clean edgy so it didn't contain my patched e2fsprogs
[05:13] <psusi> with my old patched e2fsprogs package it compiled
[05:13] <psusi> but those patches weren't accepted back when I filed them
[05:13] <psusi> LaserJock, how?
[05:14] <psusi> ahh, yep... according to lp the defrag package has no binaries in edgy
[05:14] <psusi> so packages must still be serving up the last good i386 binary from dapper
[05:15] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/defrag/0.73pjm1-8
[05:15] <LaserJock> and it says all archs failed to build
[05:16] <psusi> ahh, cool, even can see the log
[05:17] <psusi> well there you go... FTBS on all arches ;)
[05:18] <psusi> strange too... looks like it was auto synced to debian
[05:18] <psusi> wonder if it was ftbs for them too?
[05:57] <LaserJock> good night people
[05:57] <minghua_> night LaserJock
[05:57] <LaserJock> heh
[06:30] <ajmitch> how disturbing
[06:31] <minghua_> ajmitch: after the beryl-by-default proposal?  ;-)
[06:31] <ajmitch> nah, before that
[06:32] <ajmitch> he needs people around who are willing to disagree with him :)
[06:32] <minghua_> I am not kidding though, look at the poster at the bottom of http://www.ubuntu.com.cn/releaseparty
[06:32] <minghua_> ajmitch: very true
[06:33] <ajmitch> I'd hate to work somewhere where everyone was a 'yes-man'
[06:34] <ajmitch> such a way to stifle ideas
[06:37] <minghua_> well, fortunately (or not) sabdfl doesn't show any sign of running out of crazy ideas yet
[06:37] <ajmitch> if he ever does, I'm sure he could refill his supply of crack on the forums
[06:38] <joejaxx> `/win 32
[06:39] <joejaxx> bah
[06:39] <joejaxx> irssi :\
[06:39] <joejaxx> bbl
[06:39] <Lathiat> minghua_: hah
[06:39] <Lathiat> that poster..
[07:17] <Toadstool> Fujitsu, ajmitch, imbrandon: good job on MOTU SRU!
[07:18] <ajmitch> thanks, add your comments on the mailing list
[07:21] <Toadstool> ajmitch: if I had any comments I would but I've been working from 8:30 am to 10 pm and I think I'll have to buy a new brain tomorrow morning :/
[07:21] <ajmitch> hehe ok
[07:21] <Chandu> hi
[07:21] <Chandu> good morning
[07:22] <Toadstool> good night :)
[07:24] <Chandu> Ehy .. Iam confused on How ubuntu will be building packages for its development release (for example fesity)
[07:27] <Chandu> can anyone tell me how ubuntu starts building packages for its development release
[07:27] <LaserJock> Chandu: what is confusing you?
[07:29] <Chandu> LaserJock, hey .. If you start building pacakges for fiesty .. you wont be ahveing archvie of fiesty ..How you will building binaries for that
[07:29] <Chandu> LaserJock, I hope all packages will be built over the development release itself
[07:29] <Chandu> LaserJock, not on the current release for next release
[07:31] <LaserJock> well, we build them in pbuilder
[07:31] <LaserJock> but the build machines use something similar I think
[07:32] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok ..that I know .. But pubilder will work in chroot ..right
[07:32] <Chandu> LaserJock,in which chroot will it work ..in feisty
[07:32] <LaserJock> feisty
[07:32] <Chandu> LaserJock, If fiesty ..Before starting building U will have fiesty debootstrap script
[07:33] <LaserJock> sure
[07:33] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Didn't you go to bed a while ago?
[07:33] <LaserJock> not to bed
[07:33] <LaserJock> I just drove home
[07:33] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[07:33] <Fujitsu> You said good night.
[07:33] <LaserJock> was at the lab until 9:00 pm
[07:33] <Chandu> LaserJock, Then what about the packages for isntalling the base system and other build-dependent packages ..
[07:33] <Fujitsu> Woah.
[07:33] <LaserJock> well, I thought maybe it was goodnight
[07:33] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: that's pretty usual for me
[07:34] <LaserJock> I have only 1 or 2 nights that I'm home before 9:00 pm
[07:34] <Chandu> LaserJock, Fro mwhich archive will it be installing ..What will be the mirror path set in pbuilder for fiesty
[07:34] <LaserJock> Chandu: the fiesty repos are already set up
[07:34] <LaserJock> the toolchain is getting synced and stabalized
[07:37] <ajmitch> mmm, curry
[07:38] <Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
[07:38] <ajmitch> dholbach!
[07:39] <dholbach> good morning
[07:39] <dholbach> heya Fujitsu, hey ajmitch
[07:39] <Chandu> LaserJock, No .. I want to know how you have dont that ..
[07:40] <Chandu> LaserJock, For setting Repo you need to rebuild debian source right ...
[07:40] <LaserJock> hi dholbach
[07:40] <LaserJock> Chandu: right
[07:41] <LaserJock> so they build the necessary packages
[07:41] <Chandu> LaserJock, Then for building that debian source ..as you told it will be built using pbuilder . in feisty environment
[07:41] <LaserJock> right, so the first thing they have to do is build the feisty environment
[07:41] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok ..How do they do that
[07:42] <ajmitch> in the beginning, feisty is identical to edgy
[07:42] <Chandu> ajmitch, ok
[07:42] <ajmitch> so in the initial setup, you start with debian packages
[07:42] <Chandu> ajmitch, debian packages ..is ti only source or also binary
[07:43] <LaserJock> well, you start with source and build binary
[07:43] <ajmitch> unless you're a masochist & want to do a full bootstrap on a new arch, you use binaries
[07:43] <Chandu> ajmitch, ok .then for setting up fesity environment ..we will use same edgy debootstrap script .. for pbuilder /..right
[07:43] <ajmitch> some people I know are like that though :)
[07:43] <LaserJock> ajmitch: like Hurd people
[07:43] <ajmitch> I was thinking of some canonical people, to be honest
[07:43] <dholbach> hi LaserJock
[07:44] <ajmitch> some of whom have worked with the hurd in the past :)
[07:44] <LaserJock> heh
[07:44] <ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
[07:44] <ajmitch> Chandu: the initial feisty debootstrap just uses binaries imported from edgy
[07:45] <Chandu> ajmitch, Ok.... So feisty base system isntalled in chroot is nothing but the edgy base system instaleld using edgy binaries ..right
[07:45] <ajmitch> currently - that will change
[07:45] <ajmitch> that's what is being changed at the moment
[07:45] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
[07:46] <Chandu> ajmitch, then after base for building all other packages over that chroot env ..from which repo the build-dependent packages will be taken
[07:46] <ajmitch> always feisty
[07:46] <ajmitch> but feisty is made up of binaries from edgy + anything built since then
[07:47] <ajmitch> the wonders of the pool structure
[07:47] <Chandu> ajmitch, oh!.. from the time you start building binraries for feisty ..the feisty archive will be set in such a way that ..it points to edgy repo + the new repo containg the packages newly built for feisty
[07:49] <LaserJock> no, it will point to feisty
[07:49] <LaserJock> but the feisty repo will initially be the same as the edgy repo
[07:50] <Chandu> LaserJock, here I am really confused ..I will jsut take an example
[07:50] <Chandu> LaserJock, I hae setup an evn for fesity using edgy debootstrap script
[07:50] <Chandu> LaserJock, means a base system of edgy will be isntalled in chroot
[07:51] <Chandu> LaserJock, This is feisty environtment
[07:51] <Chandu> LaserJock, So..The MIRROR path in pbuilder ..i.e /etc/pbuilderrc file will be pointing to edgy repo
[07:51] <Chandu> LaserJock, Once I start buiding packages for festi from debian source ..
[07:51] <Chandu> LaserJock, example let me take package acl
[07:52] <Chandu> LaserJock, I want to build acl now for feisty ..It needs some build dependent pacakges ..From which repo will these build-dependent packages will be isntaleld
[07:52] <Chandu> LaserJock, Can you clarify me this thing
[07:54] <LaserJock> well, when feisty is ready you will use feisty
[07:54] <LaserJock> look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.0
[07:55] <LaserJock> look at the feisty version
[07:56] <Chandu> LaserJock, When fesity is ready measn what ..after full repo for fesity is ready ... Even fora making festty ready ..we need to compile all debian source na ..for that it needs build-dependent packages right ..from which repo this build-dependent packages will be
[07:56] <LaserJock> ok
[07:57] <Mez> has pbuilder been updated with feisty yet ?
[07:57] <LaserJock> right now feisty is basically just the same as edgy
[07:57] <LaserJock> the .deb files are all in a pool
[07:57] <LaserJock> and feisty points to the same .debs as edgy (I think that's how it works)
[07:58] <Mez> LaserJock, pretty much
[07:58] <LaserJock> but the core developers are uploading new version of the core packages
[07:58] <Mez> unless you want to get technical
[07:58] <LaserJock> once they have that working ok, then feisty will be ready for uploading in general (in say 1-2 weeks)
[07:59] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok ..whether unti building of the las package will pbuilder will be pointing ..(taking binaries ) from the edgy repo itself ..
[07:59] <Chandu> LaserJock, or as and when a new apckage is built for fesity .. pbuilder will be pointing to two repos .. one is edgy and the otehr is a newly setting up repo for feisty..
[07:59] <ajmitch> pbuilder itself never points to edgy for feisty - the edgy packages are imported into feisty on the server
[08:00] <Chandu> ajmitch, imported means what ... whole edgy repo (source+bianries) will be moved into feisty archive
[08:00] <ajmitch> yes
[08:01] <Mez> ajmitch - has pbuilder been updated for feisty, or do we have to go the whole - edgy -> feisty upgrade to get a feisty pbuild ?
[08:01] <ajmitch> Mez: debootstrap & base-files are updated
[08:01] <Mez> ajmitch, sweet ;)
[08:01] <ajmitch> edgy's pbuilder knows nothing of feisty, I suspect
[08:02] <ajmitch> an 'upgrade' is trivial though
[08:02] <Chandu> ajmitch, So if once one package is built ..where do they get uploaded ..is it to the same archive where edgy packges are imported to feisty
[08:02] <ajmitch> Chandu: yes, uploaded to feisty
[08:02] <Mez> ajmitch, it may be trivial but /me has limited b/w
[08:02] <ajmitch> Mez: by trivial, I mean you change sources.list
[08:03] <ajmitch> and then you've got a feisty pbuilder chroot
[08:03] <ajmitch> sure, you'll get a couple of updated packages
[08:03] <Chandu> ajmitch, So when rebuilding if the new package built for feisty 's version is same as the edgy version ..Then what the uploda will do ..
[08:03] <ajmitch> Chandu: never do that
[08:03] <ajmitch> any rebuild or source change *must* have a higher version within the same distro
[08:05] <Chandu> ajmitch, No ..Suppose is there is no change in debian version used for edgy and now using for fesity ..what will you do to upload ..Will you keep the same edgy version as it is ..without rebuilding the new pacakge for feisty ..
[08:07] <ajmitch> if it doesn't need rebuilt, there will be no change
[08:07] <ajmitch> however anything imported from debian gets imported as source only
[08:07] <ajmitch> and therefore gets rebuilt automatically with the same version number
[08:08] <Chandu> ajmitch, hey otehr thing ..you was telling to Mez , that for creating pbuilder for feisty .. debootstrap and base-files of edgy will be updated .. if you are modifying thsoe two pacakges you will be using the same those two packages for creating pbuilder environment for feisty right
[08:08] <ajmitch> they were updated in feisty, to allow for chroot creation of feisty
[08:09] <Chandu> ajmitch, ok ..
[08:09] <ajmitch> you can install the feisty debootstrap on edgy in order to setup a feisty pbuilder
[08:11] <Chandu> ajmitch, ok
[08:12] <Chandu> ajmitch, Once one debian source is getting imported it will automatically built with the same version of debian you told .. right
[08:12] <ajmitch> this is why the first step is setting up the toolchain
[08:13] <Chandu> ajmitch, Suppose if some change neeed you feel .. some iamges you need to replace ..some name you need to change .in that case what you will be doing ..
[08:13] <ajmitch> so that packages are built with the appropriate compiler, glibc, etc
[08:13] <ajmitch> Chandu: you change the package, change the version, upload it, it gets built on the distro you are working on
[08:13] <Chandu> ajmitch, No , you told once its gets imported it will be built automatically
[08:14] <Chandu> ajmitch, So before building we need to identyfy that package , modify change version and then rebuilt .. then upload right
[08:14] <ajmitch> yes, and you asked what happens if you need to change it - which is different
[08:15] <ajmitch> it'll initially get imported & biult, and then you change it & upload a modified version
[08:16] <Chandu> ajmitch, ok , ok ..So all the debian source will be automatically get imported from the deiban sid pool and reubilt in feisty environtment .. and get uploaded to festy archive
[08:16] <Chandu> ajmitch, If any package chagne is needed we need to modify that ..change version and then rebuild then upload ..right
[08:16] <ajmitch> in the case of ubuntu, everything that hasn't been modified in edgy will get imported
[08:17] <ajmitch> since we don't automatically sync anything with ubuntu in the version number
[08:17] <Chandu> ajmitch, means I will jsut take an eg
[08:17] <ajmitch> that requires manual merging work, to merge the changes done in Ubuntu to what has been done in Debian
[08:17] <Chandu> ajmitch, suppose in edgy gdm is modified and is with ubuntu version
[08:18] <Chandu> ajmitch, Now you are importing gdm from debian sid .. It gets auto built for fesity with debian version .. Once it reubilt it goes for upload ..will it get upload
[08:18] <LaserJock> no, it's slightly different
[08:18] <Chandu> LaserJock, how if differs
[08:19] <LaserJock> MoM will attempt to merge the packages and spit out a report
[08:19] <LaserJock> *every* package that had an ubuntu version has to be manually checked
[08:21] <Chandu> LaserJock, means MOM will compare the nelwy build gdm package with debian version with the gdm pacakge of edgy with ubuntu version .. If it finds that ubutnu version of gdm is availabe in archive currently then it wont upload the new gdm of debian version and it will generate a report telling that this package needs manual modification ..right
[08:22] <LaserJock> MoM will never upload anything
[08:22] <LaserJock> it only gives reports
[08:23] <LaserJock> it compares the previous Ubuntu version to the Debian version it was based on
[08:23] <LaserJock> and that Debian version to the current one in Sid
[08:23] <Chandu> LaserJock, means what It will give the report telling that this package can be synced or or needs modifcation
[08:23] <LaserJock> not quite
[08:23] <LaserJock> it gives you a guess
[08:24] <LaserJock> but it is still up to the developers to check each package
[08:24] <LaserJock> and see if it can be synced ore merged
[08:24] <LaserJock> and if it needs to be merged they do the merging
[08:24] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok
[08:24] <LaserJock> you can do the whole thing without MoM
[08:25] <LaserJock> but MoM is made to help us out
[08:28] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok... hey once the imported debian package is built ..wont it be automatically uploaded .. .So before uploading .. we have to check the debdiff of exsiting ubuntu versio and the debian version it si based on ..and then debdiff of old debian and the new debian package ...then we have to decide whether it whould be synced or merged
[08:29] <Chandu> LaserJock, Once we feel that it can be synced ..it should be uploaded with the same debian version ..else should be modifed and then merged
[08:29] <LaserJock> basically yeah
[08:30] <LaserJock> we (as in the MOTU) don't have to worry about the automatically imported packages or actually uploading syncs
[08:30] <LaserJock> those are handled by the Ubuntu archive admins
[08:30] <LaserJock> we just tell them what packages can be synced
[08:31] <LaserJock> but basically that is the flow of things
[08:31] <Chandu> LaserJock, So you just built the debian source ..do all these diff execrsise and tell them ..that this can be synced ..right
[08:31] <LaserJock> yep
[08:32] <Chandu> LaserJock, So ..which one they will sync ..which you have built from debian source
[08:32] <LaserJock> they will take the source package directly from Debian sid
[08:32] <LaserJock> and build it in the Ubuntu environment
[08:32] <Chandu> LaserJock, Oh...again they will take source from the debian sid ..and they will rebuild again that and sync to feisty archvie
[08:33] <LaserJock> yes
[08:33] <LaserJock> we just do the work to verify that it can indeed be synced
[08:33] <Chandu> LaserJock, Hey you have also built the package in the ubuntu environment na ,,, then whats the difference
[08:33] <Chandu> LaserJock, If they are also building the same package again ..is it not time consuming ..
[08:33] <LaserJock> no
[08:34] <LaserJock> the same thing would have to happen if I were to upload the package
[08:34] <LaserJock> but we just cut out the need for us to upload
[08:34] <LaserJock> and possibly introducing some change
[08:35] <Chandu> LaserJock, how come .. Once you are building packages from debian source ...U will be having all the source ..chagnes file and debs ...right
[08:35] <Chandu> LaserJock, then why do the yneed to build it again ..
[08:35] <LaserJock> yes, but we don't upload .debs
[08:35] <LaserJock> we only upload source packages
[08:36] <Chandu> LaserJock, then will you be uploading the source
[08:36] <LaserJock> right
[08:36] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok
[08:36] <LaserJock> so there's not much of a difference between me uploading the source
[08:36] <LaserJock> or the archive admins uploading the source
[08:36] <LaserJock> except they have tools to make sure that it is exactly a sync
[08:37] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok
[08:37] <Chandu> LaserJock, thank you very much .. LaserJock ..Now I got some idea .. Its cleared something
[08:38] <LaserJock> glad we could help
[08:38] <Chandu> LaserJock, but anyhow ..to check whethe it is for sync or merge ..you will be taking debin sid source and rebuilting that right
[08:38] <LaserJock> well, you usually start with the debian sid source
[08:38] <Chandu> LaserJock, then only you will tell admin regarding the status of the package ..
[08:39] <LaserJock> and then look at why the ubuntu version was there
[08:39] <LaserJock> and if Debian has incorporated those changes or we no longer need them then we tell the archive admins to sync
[08:39] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok ...
[08:39] <LaserJock> but if they are still needed we need to incorporate those changes into the new package
[08:40] <Chandu> LaserJock, hey ..the packges which you are telling admin people to sync or merge will ne finally getting uploaded to the same repo to where you have imported all edgy packages in the starting of the build ..right
[08:40] <LaserJock> to fiesty
[08:40] <dholbach> please all follow up on the SRU mails on ubuntu-motu@
[08:41] <StevenK> LaserJock: fEisty
[08:41] <Chandu> LaserJock, ya fesity ..but feisty .. initially will be the edgy repo itself ..right
[08:42] <Chandu> LaserJock, means ..edgy imported to fesity
[08:42] <superm1> dholbach, I was trying to file a bug for a sru, and I added mdz to it per the wiki page explaining SRU.  I never really heard back from him though
[08:42] <superm1> should I be adding ubuntu-motu instead?
[08:42] <dholbach> superm1: we're figuring out the process right now
[08:42] <LaserJock> Chandu: yes it copy of edgy
[08:43] <Chandu> LaserJock, ok ..thank you
[08:43] <dholbach> superm1: the team will be operational from saturday on
[08:43] <superm1> the SRU team u mean?
[08:43] <lifeless> ajmitch: is there a xen howto for edgy ?
[08:43] <dholbach> superm1: motu-sru
[08:44] <ajmitch> lifeless: XenOnEdgy wiki page
[08:44] <dholbach> lifeless: XenOnEdgy
[08:44] <superm1> Ah wonderful.
[08:44] <lifeless> the package should so totally link to that in their description
[08:45] <LaserJock> dholbach: hehe, I nominate dholbach ;-)
[08:45] <dholbach> LaserJock: mailing list! but thanks ;-)
[08:46] <ajmitch> ooh, motu-sru nominations
[08:46] <lifeless> does xen play well with lvm2 ?
[08:46] <ajmitch> yes
[08:47] <ajmitch> you can use lvm snapshots if you want
[08:47] <lifeless> sorry to use you as quick support ;). Bootstrapping my xen knowledge asap
[08:47] <ajmitch> or I've used it with sid on lvm
[08:47] <ajmitch> no problem :)
[08:47] <lifeless> module /boot/xen0-linux-2.6.17-6-generic-xen0 root=/dev/lvm2/foo/root ro <- that should be ok ?
[08:48] <lifeless> does it bring up the first module line like a kernel line ?
[08:48] <ajmitch> yes, it's just a regular kernel
[08:48] <ajmitch> my laptop has root on lvm
[08:48] <ajmitch> domU gets setup slightly differently, but works with lvm just fine
[08:48] <lifeless> that page is a little confusing
[08:48] <lifeless> it says 'typical usage'
[08:48] <lifeless> but nowhere defines what that means.
[08:48] <lifeless> for instance, 'typical' might be:
[08:49] <ajmitch> clarify it if you want
[08:49] <lifeless>  - nothing at all in the Dom0 except the ability to run DomU's
[08:49] <LaserJock> well, it's typical so it needs no definition  ;-)
[08:49] <LaserJock> it's intuitively obvious :-)
[08:53] <LaserJock> dholbach: heh, can I nominate more then one?
[08:54] <dholbach> LaserJock: sure
[08:54] <lifeless> or it could be
[08:55] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we breathlessly await your nominations
[08:55] <lifeless>  - the Dom0 looks and feels like your regular ubuntu install, and has all your normal services
[08:55] <lifeless> ajmitch: ^ which is 'typical'
[08:56] <lifeless> I can only clarify it if I know what 'it' is :)
[08:56] <ajmitch> hehe
[08:56] <ajmitch> what seems most common is the latter setup
[08:56] <lifeless> ok, so lets say that
[08:58] <lifeless> for clarity - what does
[08:58] <lifeless> If you want to use the same initramfs in a domU with a virtual block device served by the dom0 (the usual configuration) you should also arrange for the initramfs to contain and load xenblk.
[08:58] <lifeless> really do ?
[08:58] <ajmitch> interesting, is that still on the page?
[08:59] <lifeless> tell you what. Can you please sanity check the page. -then- I'll hose my system with it.
[08:59] <ajmitch> that should probably be cleaned up, xenblk should be built into the 2.6.17 kernel
[08:59] <ajmitch> you're doing this on x86 aren't you (iirc I asked you earlier today)
[08:59] <lifeless> yes, a k7 machine
[09:00] <ajmitch> setting up the domU can be done much easier than listed there
[09:00] <ajmitch> using xen-tools
[09:00] <LaserJock> mwuahahaha
[09:01] <ajmitch> apart from the piece about xenblk, the rest of the dom0 setup looks sane
[09:01] <LaserJock> darn it, I simply can't write an email without a typo :(
[09:01] <ajmitch> eg my grub setting:
[09:01] <ajmitch> kernel /xen-3.0-i386.gz
[09:01] <ajmitch> module /xen0-linux-2.6.17-1-generic root=/dev/mapper/acer--vg-ubuntu ro
[09:01] <ajmitch> module /initrd.img-2.6.17-1-generic-xen
[09:02] <ajmitch> well, that needs updated for the latest kernel :)
[09:03] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you had to be difficult, didn't you?
[09:03] <LaserJock> of course
[09:03] <ajmitch> we only need ~4 or so
[09:03] <LaserJock> I give out ponies and nominations
[09:03] <LaserJock> it's what I do ;-)
[09:04] <LaserJock> doh
[09:05] <LaserJock> we only have 2 things currently that need approval right? freeze exceptions and SRUs
[09:05] <ajmitch> yes
[09:05] <lifeless> ajmitch: so, can you update the page to /be/ sane rather than 'be sane if you ignore X' ?
[09:05] <lifeless> ajmitch: that would be most comforting to me
[09:06] <LaserJock> so maybe we can keep those 2 teams orthogonal
[09:06] <ajmitch> lifeless: I was checking things in the kernel config to be sure
[09:06] <LaserJock> to spread the work
[09:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: they should happen at different times in the release
[09:06] <LaserJock> not necessarily
[09:06] <LaserJock> but kinda
[09:06] <LaserJock> SRUs can be any time
[09:07] <lifeless> ajmitch: perhaps the grub setup should say 'copy your current kernel line and adjust in the following way'
[09:07] <lifeless> ajmitch: i.e. can usplash work for instance ?
[09:07] <LaserJock> although I would tend to think they would be mostly loaded toward the beginning of the release cycle
[09:07] <ajmitch> LaserJock: and other freeze exceptions towards the end
[09:08] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but that's somewhat why I suggested just having one largish sized team that handled all approval requests
[09:08] <LaserJock> having a pool of 5-10 core MOTUs than can handle approvals as they come up
[09:09] <LaserJock> but maybe smaller task oriented teams is better
[09:12] <ajmitch> lifeless: dom0 setup should be ok now
[09:14] <dholbach> is MOTU/Packages/Merging our official document?
[09:15] <ajmitch> probably one of many :)
[09:15] <ajmitch> it'll need updated
[09:16] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, lifeless: that shiny xenonedgy stuff should be on help.ubuntu.com/community
[09:16] <LaserJock> dholbach: I don't think the wiki was use a whole lot for edgy because of merges.ubuntu.com
[09:18] <LaserJock> one of these days I really am going to clean up wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/*
[09:18] <dholbach> i see
[09:18] <dholbach> I'm out for a walk brb
[09:18] <ajmitch> when we get a round tuit
[09:19] <Plug> My nana has one of them
[09:20] <LaserJock> jeeze that's a massive and prehaps less then extremely helpful page
[09:20] <LaserJock> and half of it is my own stuff :/
[09:22] <ajmitch> heh
[09:22] <LaserJock> and yeah, we have 113 wiki pages in CategoryMotu
[09:22] <LaserJock> that's way too much "stuff"
[09:23] <ajmitch> asking someone to read up on that is a nightmare
[09:24] <LaserJock> and much of the time the wiki pages have no table of contents or are poorly structured
[09:24] <LaserJock> it's no fun to take the time to do it right when you've got so much "real" work to do
[09:36] <lifeless> ajmitch: the grub paths are regular fs-relative ones right ?
[09:36] <lifeless> ajmitch: i.e. boot is a separate partition for me, so I'm removing /boot from the sample paths
[09:37] <ajmitch> yep
[09:37] <ajmitch> as my menu.lst has it
[09:40] <lifeless> ajmitch: also, network-dummy is the default for xend-config
[09:40] <ajmitch> yes
[09:40] <lifeless> should we note that the default is broken ?
[09:40] <ajmitch> it already suggests to change it
[09:40] <lifeless> or that the user should comment out the current setting, not just add one
[09:41] <lifeless> brb, rebooting into this
[10:06] <LaserJock> I did it the other day
[10:06] <lifeless> ajmitch: thanks
[10:07] <lifeless> other than lvm getting shitty about drive translation, its all good
[10:07] <ajmitch> good
[10:08] <lifeless> now you said something about n easier U setup ?
[10:08] <ajmitch> get xen-tools
[10:08] <ajmitch> config file is /etc/xen-tools/xen-tools.conf
[10:09] <ajmitch> then you can setup & start a domU with a single command, that sets up the disk image, does debootstrap, etc
[10:11] <siretart> Mez: if you disable the wobbly windows plugin, it is close to usable
[10:11] <ajmitch> & animations
[10:12] <lifeless> someone did pbuilder integration with xen didn't they ?
[10:12] <mez_> LaserJock, how did it go?
[10:12] <ajmitch> it was talked about, not sure if it was done or not
[10:12] <LaserJock> Mez: well, it worked fine, just not exactly what I'd call useful
[10:13] <lifeless> lol, the list of dists there ignored edgy
[10:13] <LaserJock> it's shiny and it worked fine
[10:13] <lifeless> ironic
[10:13] <Mez> LaserJock, it's bling - is it meant to be useful ?
[10:13] <LaserJock> no
[10:14] <shawarma> Well, some of it is quite useful.
[10:14] <ajmitch> lifeless: not that it matters, debootstrap supports edgy
[10:14] <shawarma> The Expose-ish thing is quite useful.
[10:14] <ajmitch> and feisty if you grab debootstrap from there
[10:14] <lifeless> yah
[10:14] <lifeless> still, I find it humourous
[10:15] <ajmitch> going to come to the xen bof at uds next week then? :)
[10:15] <lifeless> maybe
[10:15] <lifeless> :)
[10:15] <ajmitch> we'll talk about nice gui tools that RH have developed for this
[10:20] <lifeless> ajmitch: so the xen-tools config - the kerne and initrd in there should be the same as for the dom0 ?
[10:20] <ajmitch> yeah
[10:20] <LaserJock> hi elkbuntu
[10:21] <LaserJock> oh darn, I didn't see her leave
[10:21] <ajmitch> I'm sure she's still here
[10:21] <elkbuntu> stupid fuse tripped
[10:22] <LaserJock> ah, I was going to tease elkbuntu about her birthday
[10:23] <elkbuntu> :-/
[10:23] <ajmitch> you still can!
[10:23] <LaserJock> as she appears to be slightly older then me :/
[10:23] <secretlondon> well she's younger than me
[10:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: when's your birthday?
[10:23] <LaserJock> Nov. 18th
[10:23] <ajmitch> ah
[10:23] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, im sure you've incited this.. you were teasing me in -nz too :(
[10:23] <LaserJock> so close
[10:23] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: my humblest apologies
[10:24] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, no problem dude ;)
[10:24] <LaserJock> yeah, well I'm the senior grad student in  my lab and the youngest :/
[10:24] <LaserJock> I was even younger then our undergrad :(
[10:25] <LaserJock> I need to go find jpatrick so I can feel old again :p
[10:26] <LaserJock> my wife's even older then me
[10:26] <LaserJock> ah well
[10:26] <ajmitch> hah
[10:26] <LaserJock> anyway, happy birthday elkbuntu
[10:27] <ajmitch> secretlondon: don't worry, we have far younger here
[10:27] <LaserJock> secretlondon: thanks, I needed that
[10:27] <LaserJock> yeah, I used to feel old around all these high school kids :-)
[10:27] <secretlondon> ajmitch: I'm sure - i've just seen some of my local LUG go off to school (<16)
[10:27] <ajmitch> heh
[10:28] <LaserJock> we have at least one MOTU that's < 16
[10:28] <ajmitch> and several that act younger
[10:28] <LaserJock> yeah, that's for sure
[10:28] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:28] <secretlondon> generally the acting young ones are considerbaly older
[10:28] <shawarma> LaserJock: Huh? Who's that young?
[10:28] <secretlondon> some of wikipedias most mature are <16
[10:29] <LaserJock> Hobbsee must be like 15 or something
[10:29] <LaserJock> hopefully I can avoid the stick
[10:29] <shawarma> *g*
[10:30] <Hobbsee> ...i so need an autocomplete for that...
[10:30] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:32] <LaserJock> hmm, somebody really does need to take that away from her
[10:32] <Hobbsee> hah, dream on
[10:33] <LaserJock> I think ajmitch and I could tag team it
[10:33] <LaserJock> and duct tape Hobbsee
[10:33] <LaserJock> and steal her stick
[10:33] <Hobbsee> hah
[10:34] <LaserJock> but at this point I feel like we would have to first put a spec on LP
[10:34] <LaserJock> and have a release manager approve it
[10:34] <Hobbsee> it would be against the COC, i'm sure
[10:34] <LaserJock> and then discuss the implementation polocy
[10:34] <LaserJock> and toss it around the appropriate mailing list
[10:34] <secretlondon> you could always make a wishlist bug and allocate to the motu
[10:34] <Hobbsee> and i could decline it :P
[10:34] <LaserJock> and form a hobbsee-stick-stealing LP team
[10:35] <Hobbsee> no one steals my stick!
[10:35] <secretlondon> LaserJock: you could try getting a bigger stick
[10:35] <LaserJock> and have a bzr branch for our plans just so it's an open source project
[10:35] <LaserJock> secretlondon: hmm, that is an idea
[10:36] <LaserJock> I've also got my laser
[10:36] <LaserJock> that's it
[10:36] <LaserJock> I'll chop off her stick with my laser ;-)
[10:36] <LaserJock> mwuahaha
[10:36] <Hobbsee> awww
[10:36] <LaserJock> ah well
[10:37] <LaserJock> it's time for bed here
[10:37] <secretlondon> 9am here
[10:37] <Hobbsee> there we go :)
[10:37] <StevenK> Heh
[10:37] <LaserJock> I've successfully lowered the IQ of the room
[10:37] <LaserJock> my work here is done
[10:38] <Hobbsee> there we go :)
[10:38] <TheMuso> I ran away.
[10:38] <TheMuso> YOu missed me.
[10:38] <LaserJock> you can't attack dholbach
[10:38] <LaserJock> he gives you hugs!
[10:39] <elkbuntu> but Hobbsee, there is no stick
[10:39] <LaserJock> ohhhh, nice move
[10:39] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: YOU CANT TAKE MY STICK!  NO ONE CAN!
[10:39] <TheMuso> Its a figment of your imagination.
[10:39] <dholbach> HAPPY BIRTHDAY! :-)
[10:39] <elkbuntu> bwahaha!
[10:39] <LaserJock> deny the existence of the stick
[10:39] <elkbuntu> thanks dholbach :)
[10:39] <TheMuso> Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Melissa, happy birthday to you.
[10:39] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: you're a genius
[10:40] <LaserJock> \o/
[10:40] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, you're saying you smart arses never figured it?
[10:40] <LaserJock> nah, I'm a scientist, common sense slips off me like teflon
[10:41] <lifeless> ajmitch: thanks!
[10:41] <ajmitch> lifeless: no problem
[10:42] <LaserJock> anyway, good night MOTU Land
[10:42] <elkbuntu> night-o LaserJock
[10:42] <LaserJock> I can't wait to see you again in the morning
[10:42] <dholbach> LaserJock: sleep tight
[10:42] <LaserJock> yes, I have that little of a life
[10:43] <dholbach> :-)
[10:45] <dholbach> too! many! bug! reports!
[10:45] <dholbach> hi giskard
[10:45] <giskard> hello dholbach
[10:45] <giskard> hello *
[10:46] <Hobbsee> haha, yeah
[10:51] <lifeless> oh :(. I need more memory :(
[11:02] <lifeless> hmm. no sbin/init on the created image
[11:02] <lifeless> ajmitch: ever seen that ?
[11:02] <ajmitch> nope
[11:03] <ajmitch> I'm sure the edgy setup I had used upstart, but I didn't check it
[11:03] <lifeless> upstart provides init
[11:03] <lifeless> this is missing /usr even
[11:03] <lifeless> it is xen-create-image right ?
[11:03] <lifeless> also, how do you exist 'xm console' ?
[11:03] <ajmitch> debootstrap has been known to create incomplete chroots even when it hasn't grabbed everything
[11:04] <ajmitch> ^]  iirc
[11:04] <ajmitch> or ctrl-d
[11:04] <lifeless> ^] 
[11:04] <ajmitch> let me reboot into the xen kernel on my laptop
[11:04] <lifeless> thanks
[11:04] <ivoks> does anyone got xen working with VT enabled?
[11:04] <ivoks> s/does/did
[11:05] <ajmitch> I will if you ship me the hardware :)
[11:05] <ivoks> i have the hardware, but it doesn't work :)
[11:05] <ajmitch> got xen-ioemu-3.0 installed as well?
[11:05] <lifeless> the hardware ?
[11:05] <ivoks> no
[11:05] <ajmitch> CPU with virtualisation support
[11:06] <ivoks> ioemu is needed?
[11:06] <lifeless> oh right
[11:06] <lifeless> ivoks: yes
[11:06] <lifeless> just did not know the abbreviation ;)
[11:06] <ivoks> oh, i have that installed
[11:07] <lifeless> ajmitch: oh?
[11:07] <lifeless> ajmitch: does an FX2 count as too early ?
[11:07] <ivoks> lifeless: i guess that's amd without VT :)
[11:07] <ajmitch> lifeless: yeah, only the AM2-based amd64 chips have hardware virtualisation
[11:07] <TheMuso> Do any of the new Intel CPUs have it?
[11:07] <lifeless> well thats good then, my wintendo can stay as such with no guilt ;)
[11:07] <ajmitch> yes, they do
[11:08] <lifeless> TheMuso:  Core2 and some D9xx processors (called 'Vanderpool' or 'VT')
[11:08] <ivoks> TheMuso: almost all new intel have it
[11:08] <ivoks> lifeless: core due (without 2) also has it
[11:08] <TheMuso> Ok cool.
[11:08] <ajmitch> ivoks: I thought only some of the core duos had it
[11:08] <ajmitch> again, I got my laptop a few months early :)
[11:08] <ajmitch> so I won't be upgrading for awhile
[11:08] <ivoks> ajmitch: well, it's accured to say some of core duos don't have it
[11:09] <ivoks> those with E in the name, like T2300E
[11:09] <ivoks> all others have it
[11:20] <spacey> even some pentium D's (900 serie) have VT
[11:22] <ajmitch> hey spacey
[11:23] <ajmitch> since it's intended for testing & breaking
[11:28] <spacey> hey
[12:00] <ajmitch> night all
[12:27] <sistpoty> hi folks
[12:28] <Hobbsee> hey sistpoty
[12:28] <sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
[12:40] <DarkMageZ> ajmitch, oh, before you go. can you point me to a page for compiling vb.net apps under edgy?
[12:41] <jsgotangco> he's probably asleep at this time
[12:41] <secretlondon> he said night all some time ago
[12:41] <DarkMageZ> hmm, his lack of /away is disturbing
[12:42] <StevenK> He was probably too sleepy to set it.
[12:42] <jsgotangco> is it? heh he's in new zealand where its like 2 or 3am now
[12:42] <StevenK> Quarter to 1am
[12:43] <jsgotangco> :D
[12:43] <luisbg> hello all
[01:38] <sistpoty> does anyone know how I can set up an i386 pbuilder on amd64?
[01:40] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: StevenK will, when he comes back.  i cant see from his scripts how he's done it though
[01:40] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: k, thx... will ping him then ;)
[01:47] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: ping?
[01:47] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: pong
[01:47] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: hmm.  it appears that StevenK is back.
[01:48] <sistpoty> ah
[01:48] <Hobbsee> or his computer lost the connection, and automaticallly came back
[01:48] <Hobbsee> not sure which
[01:48] <sistpoty> StevenK: how can I set up an i386 pbuilder on amd64?
[01:48] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: that being said, you can shove thru a SRU to fix a FTBFS in universe, if you want :P
[01:49] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: hm... not before I have my dapper-i386 pbuilder set up :P
[01:49] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: it's for edgy.  a dapper i386 pbuilder wont help you :P
[01:49] <sistpoty> damn *g*
[01:50] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[01:54] <sistpoty> lol, I'm so dumb... I used --debuildopts instead of --debootstrapopts for pbuilder :(
[01:55] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:55] <secretlondon> one day I'll be able to speak motu too ;)
[01:56] <Hobbsee> secretlondon: one day :P
[01:56] <secretlondon> Hobbsee: I'll get there :)
[01:56] <Hobbsee> heeh :)
[01:56] <Hobbsee> sounds good.  more female MOTUs :)
[01:57] <secretlondon> :)
[01:57] <gnomefreak> whats the fastest way to tar up 2 dozen files? tar -czxf file.tar.gz (list all files) is a long way. is there a shorter way?
[01:58] <gnomefreak> >2dozen
[01:58] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: move them all into a folder, and tar the folder?
[01:58] <Hobbsee> or do it via a GUI :)
[01:58] <Hobbsee> which is what i do :)
[01:58] <sistpoty> mc is nice for that
[01:58] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: mc?
[01:59] <gnomefreak> midnight commander
[01:59] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: midnight commander, just like the good old nc back in dos days
[01:59] <Hobbsee> ahhh...
[01:59] <Hobbsee> i thougth midnight commander was a GUI program?
[01:59] <sistpoty> from a cli perspective it's a guid program *g*
[01:59] <Hobbsee> oh, way cool :)
[01:59] <sistpoty> dui even
[01:59] <Hobbsee> true
[02:00] <gnomefreak> so lets say i change something in ~/bleh/usr/lib/bleh i can just take the /usr/ file and tar it up right?
[02:00] <thom> people still use mc? holy cow
[02:01] <sistpoty> thom: what else should I use instead?
[02:01] <sistpoty> gnomefreak: sorry, didn't get that exactly
[02:01] <gnomefreak> i think i got it
[02:02] <gnomefreak> imbrandon: you here?
[02:03] <kolape> When will edgy.1 be released?
[02:03] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: and how do you close it?
[02:03] <Hobbsee> kolape: it may not be
[02:04] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: f10
[02:04] <gnomefreak> didnt think there was going to be a point release for edgy
[02:04] <kolape> Hobbsee: Is it considered unnecessary?
[02:04] <Hobbsee> ahh.  how'd i miss that?
[02:04] <kolape> Hobbsee: Or is Edgy not considered very important?
[02:04] <Hobbsee> it's not that
[02:04] <kolape> Hobbsee: (Like a LTS would)
[02:05] <Hobbsee> kolape: the reason being that it takes a lot of effort to put out a release, and the devs are all busy with the next version
[02:05] <gnomefreak> edgy is only supported for 18 months so it would be just like breezy (no need for point releases)
[02:05] <thom> kolape: edgy will be superceded in 6 months, there's no point (or time) for a point release
[02:05] <kolape> gnomefreak: I heard there were some installation problems
[02:05] <secretlondon> kolape: generally with non standard set ups - like beryl or automatix
[02:05] <kolape> Hobbsee, thom: BTW, will there ever be a dapper.2?
[02:05] <gnomefreak> kolape: and they will not be fixed for edgy look for the fixes in feisty. afaik
[02:06] <thom> kolape: i imagine so
[02:06] <gnomefreak> kolape: yes should be
[02:06] <Hobbsee> kolape: no idea
[02:06] <kolape> I see, thank you all
[02:08] <kolape> Hobbsee: Why is it an effort? Why not simply replacing all packages with their *already-available* updates and create the new CD images and simply replacing the old ISOs from the ftp/http servers?
[02:08] <zul> hi
[02:08] <Hobbsee> hey zul
[02:08] <thom> kolape: because it needs to be tested, and the installer needs to be updated etc
[02:08] <Hobbsee> kolape: what thom said.  on all arches, in many configurations
[02:08] <kolape> Oh, I see
[02:09] <kolape> I thought an update was self-evidently better than the original package anyway
[02:22] <sistpoty> hoooray, finally an i386 pbuilder :)
[02:23] <sistpoty> StevenK: nevermind the ping, found out myself :)
[02:24] <StevenK> You pinged me? :-P
[02:24] <StevenK> Ah, so you did.
[02:24] <StevenK> sistpoty: Sorry, I was afk.
[02:24] <sistpoty> StevenK: no problem ;)
[02:26] <StevenK> debootstrap --arch, thought.
[02:26] <StevenK> Er, though
[02:26] <sistpoty> StevenK: yes, that's it... for some strange reason it didn't work when I used it as last argument to pbuilder, but as first it worked.
[02:28] <StevenK> sistpoty: You used --debootstrapopts ?
[02:28] <sistpoty> StevenK: yes
[02:29] <StevenK> Wierd.
[02:29] <StevenK> Then again, pbuilder's option parsing has always been very strange.
[02:29] <sistpoty> maybe it got confused by --othermirror and stuff
[02:30] <StevenK> Possibly, but option parsing isn't very hard.
[02:39] <Mez> thankyou Hobbsee ;)
[02:39] <Hobbsee> Mez: :)
[02:40] <Mez> You dont even know what for :P
[02:40] <Hobbsee> Mez: indeed.  i was about to ask
[02:40] <Mez> lol - for being the first to post to ubuntu-motu after i turned vacation off ;)
[02:40] <Mez> meaning you helped me train my mail c,lient the mailing list
[02:40] <Hobbsee> ahhh....
[02:50] <Hobbsee> siretart: you know, there are only two australian women running ubuntu and or derivatives
[02:50] <Hobbsee> siretart: i would expect you to keep them straight :P
[02:50] <zul> Hobbsee: that we know of..
[02:51] <Hobbsee> zul: true
[02:51] <Hobbsee> well, that are on irc, anyway
[02:53] <siretart> Hobbsee: did I get something wrong? if yes, I'm sorry
[02:54] <Hobbsee> siretart: yep :)
[02:54] <Hobbsee> siretart: i'm not melissa draper - that's elkbuntu :)
[02:54] <Hobbsee> siretart: it's her birthday :)
[02:54] <sistpoty> huhu siretart
[02:54] <siretart> Hobbsee: I'm awfully sorry
[02:54] <elkbuntu> well, it was about an hour ago
[02:54] <sistpoty> hehe, I just wrote a very similar mail
[02:54] <Hobbsee> siretart: it's not a problem :)
[02:54] <siretart> elkbuntu: my best wishes! :)
[02:54] <sistpoty> elkbuntu: happy birthday then ;)
[02:55] <siretart> hey sistpoty! :)
[02:55] <Hobbsee> i was just amused :)
[02:55] <elkbuntu> btw.. am i missing something in this conversation?
[02:55] <sistpoty> elkbuntu: a mail to ubuntu-motu ml
[02:55] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: sure.  siretart ended his reply to me on the MOTU mailing list about btw - happy birhtday
[02:55] <elkbuntu> lol
[02:55] <Hobbsee> "uh...it's not my birthday!"
[02:56] <sistpoty> siretart: btw.: what was wrong with tiber?
[02:57] <siretart> sistpoty: the new kernel didn't bring up the interfaces
[02:57] <luisbg> can I subscribe to the motu lisnt' even though I'm not a motu yet?
[02:57] <luisbg> will only listen
[02:57] <sistpoty> siretart: d'oh... do we have a recovery shell or s.th. now or can only s.o. else fix it in such cases?
[02:58] <sistpoty> luisbg: the -motu ml is public, anybody can subscribe
[02:59] <luisbg> sistpoty, ok thanks
[03:12] <lotusleaf> does anyone here build gkrellmd for ubuntu? it fails to uninstall in Edgy with synaptic, dpkg from CLI, and aptitude, if this is offtopic I'm sorry
[03:12] <sistpoty> lotusleaf: please file a bug in launchpad (if there isn't one yet)
[03:13] <lotusleaf> sistpoty: will do, thanks =)
[03:13] <siretart> sistpoty: unfortunately not
[03:13] <siretart> sistpoty: are you at home this evening? I'll call you
[03:14] <sistpoty> siretart: yes, I am... will probably go to uni anytime soon, but I should be back at 1800
[03:44] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:46] <luisbg> http://www.80stees.com/products/He-Man-Masters-Universe-t-shirts.asp <---- official channel shirt?
[03:49] <bddebian> hehe
[03:49] <dholbach> yeah :)
[03:50] <highvoltage> :)
[03:50] <highvoltage> I think I'll buy one for myself for Christmas. hopefully by then I'll be involved with motu :)
[03:52] <luisbg> =)
[03:53] <lotusleaf> Skeletor hoola hooping in an ubuntu logo hoola hoop with 3 ping pong balls attached. He smiles a skeletal smile and cackles as he-man dances like Elvis beside him.
[04:04] <ezsquirt> I'm trying to make my first deb package but i can't get it right, is here the right place to ask for help ?
[04:10] <lotusleaf> ezsquirt: have you read the guides to building debs?
[04:11] <ezsquirt> lotusleaf: yes, that where i 'learned' how to do it
[04:11] <lotusleaf> ezsquirt: ah, excellent. :)
[04:11] <lotusleaf> ezsquirt: perhaps someone here may help you, I'm dining atm
[04:12] <ezsquirt> ok bon apptit !
[04:12] <lotusleaf> ezsquirt: =) thx, good luck
[04:21] <ezsquirt> the deb-src package builds fine, but when i'm trying to get a binary deb out of it with pbuilder i get a compiling errors (Undefined references to functions). However, those fonctions are well defined in header files included in -dev packages i mentioned in debian/contro
[04:23] <Gloubiboulga> ezsquirt, could you pastebine your debian/control and the build errors?
[04:26] <ezsquirt> Gloubiboulga: sure
[04:26] <sivang> hi all
[04:26] <Gloubiboulga> hi sivang
[04:28] <sivang> hey Gloubiboulga
[04:30] <ezsquirt> Gloubiboulga: http://pastebin.ca/231009
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> pastebin.ca is getting really slow
[04:33] <ezsquirt> yeah i waited several seconds when i submitted
[04:34] <Gloubiboulga> I have to run in a few minutes :/
[04:37] <Gloubiboulga> ezsquirt, the errors doesn't really speak to me...
[04:37] <Gloubiboulga> I'd need to look at the code to find a solution, but I really have to leave now, sorry
[04:37] <ezsquirt> ok, its no big deal
[04:38] <Gloubiboulga> I'm sure than an other MOTU will have a look :)
[04:39] <ezsquirt> i hope so ;)
[04:58] <Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/beagle/+bug/38264 < the last comment says there is a fixed package in REVU, but REVU is only for new packages, isn't it?
[04:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38264 in beagle "beagle Should Recommend mplayer" [Unknown,Confirmed] 
[05:03] <PSUSI> damnit... does lp not have an option to reply to another comment in a bug?
[05:03] <PSUSI> or maybe I should just reply to the email?
[05:12] <zakame> hi all
[05:16] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[05:17] <Adri2000> can someone confirm that REVU is only for packages that are not yet in universe?
[05:17] <PSUSI> that is what it is intended for, yea
[05:17] <PSUSI> if you are fixing a bug in an existing package, attach the new source package to the bug
[05:17] <Adri2000> so beagle and mpd shouldn't be there
[05:18] <Adri2000> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3352 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3260
[05:18] <PSUSI> not really, no...
[05:19] <Adri2000> and they are not the only ones
[05:19] <Adri2000> ajmitch raphink siretart ? :)
[05:24] <siretart> Adri2000: when we wrote revu, I had only one thing in mind: making reviewing easier.
[05:24] <siretart> Adri2000: so if you think that revu helps reviewing of your package, you are free to use it for any package
[05:26] <Adri2000> ok
[05:32] <luisbg> where can I find detailed information about the workings of the debian/postint of packages?
[05:32] <luisbg> I found a package that doesn't install because the posint is missing something
[05:36] <geser> luisbg: what exactly do you want to know about postinst?
[05:37] <luisbg> how they work, to be able to spot an error in the one on this package
[05:38] <luisbg> googled about postinst, but it seams there is not much information about it
[05:38] <luisbg> and since it's a bug fix I don't think making dh_make create it for me is going to be smart
[05:38] <lotusleaf> can someone plz link me to the page on ubuntu.com for the proposed packages for universe?
[05:39] <luisbg> geser, in this case the postinst looks too short/small
[05:39] <geser> luisbg: have you already looked at the debian policy manual?
[05:40] <Adri2000> lotusleaf: "proposed" packages means what?
[05:40] <geser> luisbg: not all packages need a large postinst (see e.g. the postinst of the package "locales")
[05:40] <luisbg> geser, looked over it the other day, going to check it out now
[05:40] <geser> luisbg: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html#s6.1
[05:40] <lotusleaf> Adri2000: packages suggested for inclusion in the future
[05:40] <lotusleaf> Adri2000: perhaps proposed was the wrong word
[05:41] <luisbg> geser, ok, going to try to spot the problem myself (have to learn) ;)
[05:41] <luisbg> will ask if I get tired :P
[05:42] <Adri2000> lotusleaf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates ?
[05:42] <lotusleaf> Adri2000: that's it, thanks =)
[05:44] <lotusleaf> on that page, "Do we really need this when we have istanbul?? - OnkarShinde" for xvidcap, I would say yes, the more video related utilities in ubuntu the better.
[05:54] <ezsquirt> lotusleaf: could you give me a hand about the problem i was talking earlier ?
[05:55] <lotusleaf> ezsquirt: you may want to ask Amaranth, I'm in a conference call
[05:56] <ezsquirt> ok
[05:57] <lotusleaf> Amaranth: ping ezsquirt has a question may you help please? :)
[06:02] <luisbg> is there a maximum of dependencies in debian/control ?
[06:03] <luisbg> geser, are you around?
[06:03] <dholbach> luisbg: ubuntu-desktop still does fine :)
[06:04] <luisbg> dholbach, LOL, that is some dependencies there
[06:05] <luisbg> do you swear me none are rebundant?
[06:05] <dholbach> redundant?
[06:06] <dholbach> I can't promise, but if there are redundancies, they are for the purpose of making sure that stuff gets pulled in, even if dependencies of the individual packages change
[06:06] <luisbg> for example... it depends on package evolution and evolution-exchange
[06:06] <luisbg> when -exchange depends on evolution
[06:07] <luisbg> but I can understand in some particular case that is needed
[06:07] <luisbg> but usually that type of redundancies aren't good right?
[06:08] <dholbach> sometimes you have "redundancies" because of versioned, explicit dependencies
[06:08] <dholbach> ubnutu-desktop is a bad example for that
[06:08] <luisbg> ok ok, cool
[06:08] <dholbach> so that's fine
[06:08] <luisbg> dholbach, are you a motu?
[06:08] <dholbach> yes
[06:09] <thom> nah, dholbach's just a fan boy ;-)
[06:09] <awbassett> haha
[06:09] <luisbg> lol
[06:09] <dholbach> thom: I'll always be YOUR fanboy :-)
[06:09] <luisbg> dholbach, can you guide me through a weird dependency bug?
[06:09] <thom> heh :-) that's only because you're always drunk when we see each other :-)
[06:09] <luisbg> I believe i've fixed it but the nature is weird so not sure
[06:10] <dholbach> thom: looking forward to next week! :)
[06:10] <thom> yeah, it should be a lot of fun
[06:10] <dholbach> luisbg: what's the problem?
[06:10] <luisbg> try to apt install package ggz-grubby
[06:11] <luisbg> it will give error at the ggz-config call at postinst
[06:11] <luisbg> then to install ggz-config apt isntall ggzcore-bin
[06:11] <luisbg> now ggz-grubby will install
[06:11] <thom> ggz-grubby needs to Pre-Depend on ggzcore-bin then
[06:12] <luisbg> but the weird part is... ggzcore-bin is a dependency of ggz-grubby (but it ignores it)
[06:12] <luisbg> it is in the debian/control
[06:12] <luisbg> last dependency
[06:12] <dholbach> luisbg: what thom said
[06:12] <luisbg> I switched it to the first place... works nicely
[06:12] <thom> (Pre-Depend: is not Depend:)
[06:12] <luisbg> what is Pre-Depend?
[06:12] <luisbg> enfasis at "pre" :P
[06:14] <thom> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps
[06:14] <thom> although, if you're using it in postinst it should be ok as a depends
[06:15] <thom> try it as a pre-dep and see if it fixes the issue
[06:15] <luisbg> thom, ok! thanks, now it really makes sense
[06:15] <luisbg> it is normal for the command to not be accesible if they are installed at the same time
[06:15] <luisbg> ggzcore has to be installed first, so then the installation of grubby can use it
[06:15] <luisbg> =)
[06:19] <Adri2000> should I submit a bug report to have a new package in Ubuntu which already exists in Debian ?
[06:23] <luisbg> what is an example of a package that has some pre-dependencies?
[06:29] <thom> luisbg: all you need is a field like Depends in your control file, with Pre- stuck on the front. and that's it
[06:31] <luisbg> thom, before or after of the depends
[06:31] <luisbg> did so after and...
[06:31] <thom> doesn't matter
[06:31] <luisbg> "configure: error: ggz-config not found. Please check your installation!"
[06:33] <luisbg> sorry for the hazzle :S
[06:34] <thom> can i see your source package?
[06:34] <luisbg> sure...
[06:38] <luisbg> thom, query
[06:39] <luisbg> I know it sounds strange but... does the order of dependencies matter?
[06:40] <thom> not that i know of
[06:46] <LaserJock> good morning MOTU land!
[06:47] <imbrandon> moins LaserJock
[06:47] <LaserJock> imbrandon: you're up!
[06:47] <imbrandon> heh only by 5 minutes
[06:47] <LaserJock> I was seriously wondering if you hadn't gone to bed yet
[06:47] <imbrandon> was reading the MOTU list :)
[06:48] <imbrandon> hahaha nah just got up about 5 min ago
[06:48] <imbrandon> trying to get on a semi sane schedule for MTV
[06:48] <imbrandon> how go's it ?
[06:48] <LaserJock> ok
[06:48] <LaserJock> just got into work
[06:48] <imbrandon> looks like there has been some good input on the ML about SRU
[06:48] <LaserJock> making some Mt. View plans
[06:49] <LaserJock> my grandpa lives in Sacramento
[06:49] <imbrandon> i updated the wiki comments a bit to refect some minor changes
[06:49] <LaserJock> and my wife's aunt lives in Mt. View
[06:49] <imbrandon> rockin
[06:49] <imbrandon> you gonna visit him on the way ?
[06:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:49] <imbrandon> cool
[06:49] <imbrandon> dude are you driving down?
[06:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:50] <bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, wtf are you volunteering me for now? ;-P
[06:50] <imbrandon> lol
[06:50] <LaserJock> bddebian: being a MOTU diety  of course
[06:50] <bddebian> bah :)
[06:50] <imbrandon> i was gonna accept and add a few more comments to the ML but i wanted to pop in the shower first
[06:50] <imbrandon> LaserJock, serouisly are you leaving sat or friday night ? ( at the end of MTV )
[06:51] <LaserJock> heh, I'm actually leaving Monday night
[06:51] <imbrandon> ahh :)
[06:51] <LaserJock> I've got 2 meetings I can't get out of
[06:51] <imbrandon> no no
[06:51] <imbrandon> i mean at the ned
[06:51] <LaserJock> 1 seminar on the 7th
[06:51] <imbrandon> end*
[06:51] <imbrandon> 11th
[06:51] <LaserJock> and 1 meeting on the 10th
[06:52] <LaserJock> so I'm leaving the 6th :(
[06:52] <imbrandon> oh
[06:52] <imbrandon> i thought you were comming tuesday and leaving at the end
[06:52] <LaserJock> yes, so did I
[06:52] <LaserJock> but things got all messed up at work
[06:52] <imbrandon> ahh
[06:52] <imbrandon> so whats the plans now ?
[06:52] <LaserJock> so I'm  coming Sunday and Monday
[06:52] <imbrandon> ahh ok
[06:52] <LaserJock> I'd rather be at the beginning
[06:53] <imbrandon> right
[06:53] <LaserJock> and it means I only have to take 1 day off of work
[06:53] <imbrandon> :)
[06:53] <LaserJock> I already got in trouble with my advisor for spending too much time on the computer and not enough time getting data
[06:53] <imbrandon> so you finaly got ubuntu at work ? hehe
[06:53] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:53] <imbrandon> rockin
[06:53] <LaserJock> I'm on my intel iMac
[06:53] <LaserJock> running Edgy
[06:54] <LaserJock> and it's beautiful
[06:54] <LaserJock> it's sooooo fast
[06:54] <imbrandon> sweet, ok lemme pop in the shower and i'll followup to the ML
[06:54] <imbrandon> yea i bet
[06:54] <imbrandon> :)
[06:54] <LaserJock> well, compared to my 1.3GHz P4 anything is pretty speedy
[06:55] <LaserJock> but I realized that my laptop (which has a 2.8GHz Celeron) is very bottlenecked at the hard drive
[06:55] <luisbg> LaserJock, intel iMac...
[06:55] <LaserJock> where pbuilder takes ~ 1 min. to unpack
[06:55] <imbrandon> yea lappy hdd's are slow mostly
[06:55] <imbrandon> they can be fast but most are slow
[06:55] <LaserJock> well, I knew they were slower, but ...
[06:56] <imbrandon> yea thats the main bottlerneck on most laptops
[06:56] <LaserJock> anyway, I was sort of hoping my boss wouldn't notice I wasn't running OS X
[06:56] <imbrandon> LOL
[06:56] <luisbg> heh
[06:56] <imbrandon> you can theme it to look exactly like osx
[06:56] <LaserJock> but he made a "surprise" visit the other day
[06:57] <imbrandon> i had my ibook looking like osx for a while
[06:57] <LaserJock> and I was in the middle of C++ hacking and discussing something here
[06:57] <imbrandon> LOL
[06:57] <luisbg> imbrandon, what's that theme?
[06:57] <imbrandon> luisbg, the osx theme i used and the luna thme i used i make ( conglomeration of alot of themes and some original code )
[06:58] <imbrandon> to make it EXACT
[06:58] <luisbg> cool
[06:58] <LaserJock> but I must say, I find Ubuntu much more productive
[06:58] <imbrandon> the luna ( xp media center looking one ) i have up for download but it need updating as its compiled for breezy
[06:58] <imbrandon> heh
[06:58] <LaserJock> I think mostly because even when I was running OS X I was trying to use it like an Ubuntu machine
[06:59] <imbrandon> LaserJock, haha yea
[06:59] <imbrandon> fink
[06:59] <LaserJock> once you get like the OS X zen going on it's not bad
[06:59] <LaserJock> but you have to kinda think differently
[07:00] <imbrandon> yup yup, its a whole nother ball game, but once your used to it OMG it rocks, it just takes a while to get the rythm
[07:00] <LaserJock> the only thing I miss right now is sadly MS Office :(
[07:00] <imbrandon> oo.o ?
[07:00] <LaserJock> it's like 90% ok
[07:00] <imbrandon> you have a valid ms office key ?
[07:00] <LaserJock> but not quite there
[07:00] <luisbg> I think they are both very cool systems... each one in their sport
[07:01] <LaserJock> hmm, we have a university license
[07:01] <imbrandon> if so i can give you a copy of crossover ( wine ) that will run ms office ( i am a advocate for cxoffice so i get a few perks like free copys to distribute :P )
[07:01] <ezsquirt> i'm trying to get my deb src package compiled through pbuilder, problem is it fails when trying to create a dir (permission denied) what's the proper way to fix this ?
[07:02] <imbrandon> ezsquirt, whats the error, a pbuilder error or a package script error ?
[07:03] <imbrandon> brb i'ma pop in the shower
[07:03] <ezsquirt> package script error
[07:03] <LaserJock> ezsquirt: please pastebin the pbuilder log
[07:03] <LaserJock> !pastebin > ezsquirt
[07:03] <ezsquirt> ok
[07:08] <ezsquirt> http://pastebin.ca/231214
[07:14] <PriceChild> Hello... I'm trying to package xvidcap
[07:15] <PriceChild> wondering what section to put it in... x11 ?
[07:16] <LaserJock> ezsquirt: ok, can you pastebin debian/rules for me?
[07:16] <ToHellWithGA> k3d needs a one letter fix to make it install properly.  who does that?
[07:16] <LaserJock> PriceChild: sounds reasonable
[07:16] <ezsquirt> sure
[07:18] <LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: a bug report would be a good place to start
[07:18] <ToHellWithGA> done and done
[07:18] <PriceChild> thanks :)
[07:18] <LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: ok then :-)
[07:19] <ezsquirt> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29569/
[07:20] <ToHellWithGA> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/k3d/+bug/64848
[07:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "k3d does not install" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[07:20] <LaserJock> ezsquirt: the problem is this line in the build log "mkdir -p /usr/share/gmpc/plugins/"
[07:21] <ezsquirt> yup
[07:21] <LaserJock> ezsquirt: it looks like the sources Makefile isn't respecting DESTDIR
[07:22] <LaserJock> it *should* be making $DESTDIR/$PREFIX//share/gmpc/plugins/
[07:22] <ezsquirt> i see
[07:24] <LaserJock> ezsquirt: grep for plugins and mkdir in the Makefile and see how it is determines that path
[07:27] <ezsquirt> src/Makefile.am:libdir=${prefix}/share/gmpc/plugins/
[07:27] <ezsquirt> src/Makefile.in:libdir = ${prefix}/share/gmpc/plugins/
[07:28] <LaserJock> right
[07:29] <LaserJock> so it's using ${prefix} rather then ${destdir}${prefix}
[07:29] <LaserJock> grep for DESTDIR and destdir in the Makefile
[07:29] <LaserJock> and see if it even attempts at respecting it
[07:38] <ezsquirt> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29572
[07:38] <ezsquirt> i'm not familiar with makefiles, i'll have to read some docs !
[07:39] <LaserJock> hmm, well it seems like it at least tries
[07:44] <LaserJock> maybe you need to also specify DESTDIR in the ./configure or build parts
[07:53] <ezsquirt> ok... i see what to do, thanks a bunch !
[08:00] <ajmitch> morning all
[08:03] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[08:04] <fernando> hi ajmitch
[08:04] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ok, we need to get the motu school sessions going again in the next 2-3 weeks
[08:05] <ajmitch> think we should put out a call for contributions?
[08:06] <LaserJock> yep
[08:08] <ajmitch> scary
[08:09] <zul> yeah im scared as well :)
[08:10] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:15] <LaserJock> ajmitch:  those who are to lazy to do real work manage ;-)
[08:15] <ajmitch> fits me perfectly
[08:17] <LaserJock> ajmitch: are you writing an email currently?
[08:17] <ajmitch> LaserJock: not quite yet, do you want to write one?
[08:18] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:18] <Adri2000> should I submit a bug report to have a new package in Ubuntu which already exists in Debian ?
[08:19] <LaserJock> ajmitch: if you want to it's fine. I had some other things I wanted to mention so I was going to do a "Here's what we need to do before we get cracking on feisty"
[08:20] <ajmitch> LaserJock: fine, go & be a manager ;)
[08:20] <ajmitch> Adri2000: no need
[08:21] <Adri2000> so what should I do?
[08:22] <LaserJock> ajmitch: heh, I think you were one of the people declaring me MOTU Manager ;-)
[08:22] <ajmitch> Adri2000: wait
[08:29] <ajmitch> good, it might get in within a week or two
[08:30] <Adri2000> hm? I don't understand
[08:30] <ajmitch> packages in debian get synced to feisty
[08:32] <Adri2000> the package I'm speaking of is mcabber, it is in Debian since July, and it is not in edgy, why?
[08:32] <lucas> Adri2000: because it was uploaded to debian *after* the process of autosyncing to edgy stopped
[08:33] <lucas> and nobody cared to request a sync manually
[08:33] <lucas> packages which are in debian but not in ubuntu are generally not taken care of
[08:34] <Adri2000> ok
[08:35] <superm1> ajmitch, is there a day announced for when feisty repos are going to open up for packages yet then?
[08:35] <superm1> or just after UDS and thats all thats defined
[08:36] <ajmitch> superm1: "when they're ready"
[08:36] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:36] <superm1> hehe thats what i figured, but i was gonna try and ask anyway ;)
[08:38] <superm1> who should I talk to about getting a bzr branch set up for a package on LP?
[08:38] <LaserJock> superm1: well you can put it in your bzr space
[08:39] <superm1> do I have bzr space already defined on LP?
[08:39] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if that's what you are looking for though
[08:39] <LaserJock> superm1: sure, if you have an LP account
[08:39] <superm1> oh i had no idea.
[08:39] <LaserJock> superm1: what's your LP id
[08:39] <superm1> superm1
[08:39] <superm1> :)
[08:39] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/superm1/+branches
[08:40] <superm1> well but, how do I add a new product then?
[08:41] <superm1> I wanted to start maintaining myth on a bzr branch,
[08:41] <superm1> so that I didn't have to keep up with which debdiffs got applied in the right order and such
[08:41] <LaserJock> if you want to push something there you can bzr push --create-prefix sftp://superm1@bazaar.launchpad.net/~superm1/<product>/<branchname>
[08:41] <LaserJock> or something along those lines
[08:41] <superm1> and it just needs my SSH public key registered then right?
[08:41] <LaserJock> yep
[08:42] <superm1> okay that is good to know.   what about the public space people have at people.ubuntu.com, do I get that with LP also?
[08:42] <superm1> or is that for canonical employees only
[08:45] <superm1> or did I get that when I became an ubuntu member possibly?
[08:49] <zul> those are canonical employees
[08:49] <superm1> oh i see
[08:52] <LaserJock> core-devs I thought
[08:52] <zul> heh i dont have one if thats true :)
[08:52] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:53] <ajmitch> LaserJock: no, it was raised at a recent TB meeting
[09:00] <LaserJock> ajmitch: is people.ubuntu.com in the DC or something?
[09:01] <lucas> I remember from the TB discussion that it is
[09:02] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
[09:02] <LaserJock> heh, so shouldn't it be people.canonical.com? :-)
[09:03] <ajmitch> ideally, yes
[09:16] <vil> tap
[09:17] <LaserJock> darn, more "Why didn't this get into Edgy, you screwed your users over" bugs :-)
[09:18] <bddebian> joy
[09:18] <bddebian> LaserJock: BTW, I'm happy to help with/join in anything after about the first of the year, but with work, I can't keep up currently :'-(
[09:20] <vil> ping 10.8.0.1
[09:20] <vil> sorry, wrong window
[09:20] <bddebian> no reply from host
[09:20] <bddebian> no reply from host
[09:20] <bddebian> no reply from host
[09:20] <bddebian> :-)
[09:21] <vil> fast response, anyway :)
[09:21] <StevenK> LaserJock: Where this is Flash 9? :-P
[09:21] <LaserJock> it's eeevverywhere
[09:22] <LaserJock> it's an eternal force that flows throughout the universe
[09:22] <LaserJock> tempting us towards the dark side
[09:23] <ezsquirt> hehe
[09:23] <LaserJock> I think imbrandon has a package
[09:24] <ezsquirt> i did it ! i made my first deb package and it even works ;)
[09:25] <highvoltage> ezsquirt: whohoo!
[09:25] <ezsquirt> let's celebrate by drinking some champagne
[09:28] <LaserJock> *\o/*
[09:28] <LaserJock> *-o/*
[09:28] <LaserJock> *-o-*
[09:28] <xopher> anyone familiar with crosscompiling using pbuilder? If so, could you take a look at this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1695297#post1695297
[09:28] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so how many more people have you proposed for the SRU team?
[09:29] <LaserJock> I haven't proposed any more
[09:29] <LaserJock> just my initial "batch"
[09:29] <LaserJock> although I don't think they all need/want to be in there
[09:30] <ajmitch> well dholbach is going to have quite a job
[09:30] <StevenK> xopher: That isn't cross-compiling, and I don't think you're passing enough arguments to pbuilder.
[09:30] <StevenK> xopher: And where did you get pbuilder32 from, and what does it do?
[09:31] <LaserJock> personally, I'd like sistpoty's suggesting of also expanding motu-uvf
[09:31] <LaserJock> so we have 5-7 people each on motu-uvf and motu-sru
[09:31] <xopher> What's it called then?  I created pbuilder32 myself, I could post it too..
[09:32] <StevenK> xopher: It isn't cross compiling because an amd64 processor can execute i386 code natively.
[09:32] <xopher> I see, but what is it called?
[09:33] <xopher> Because I cant compile i386 natively w/o a chroot env. ? or can I?
[09:33] <LaserJock> Mez: you disagree with my uninstallable and unusable?
[09:33] <StevenK> xopher: Compiling is different to executing.
[09:34] <StevenK> xopher: Anyway, the reason pbuilder is compiling is because you aren't specifying --distribution
[09:34] <LaserJock> I don't really see why we should be preventing SRUs  if they are well done and tested
[09:34] <StevenK> s/compiling/complaining/
[09:35] <xopher> StevenK, well, when running this: sudo pbuilder32 create --distribution edgy --debootstrapopts --arch=i386 - I get the exact same output
[09:35] <StevenK> xopher: Try it with pbuilder as opposed to pbuilder32?
[09:35] <xopher> Well Im sure that'd work, but then it'd overwrite my current base.tgz image?
[09:36] <StevenK> xopher: Then specify another location with --basetgz
[09:36] <xopher> Ill try, thanks
[09:38] <xopher> StevenK, nope, same error
[09:38] <xopher> Its something about the pbuilderrc I believe
[09:38] <xopher> or, Im not passing pbuilder enough options
[09:39] <StevenK> I'm still checking, I think the way pbuilder executes debootstrap leaves something to be desired.
[09:41] <StevenK> xopher: It looks like pbuilder wants a single argument after --debootstrapopts, like --arch=i386, whereas debootstrap wants it without the equal sign.
[09:43] <xopher> This meaning ?
[09:46] <StevenK> xopher: Right, it's pbuilder. --debootstrapopts --arch=i386 won't work, but --debootstrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts i386 will.
[09:47] <xopher> ok, Ill try, thanks
[09:51] <xopher> StevenK, allright, now I seem to be getting somewhere again ;) Thanks a million!
[09:52] <StevenK> xopher: No problem. :-)
[10:09] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[10:09] <LaserJock> hi Toadstool
[10:09] <Toadstool> hey LaserJock
[10:09] <ajmitch> hi Toadstool
[10:10] <Toadstool> hi ajmitch
[10:11] <Toadstool> oh nice! stats on merges.ubuntu.com
[10:11] <Toadstool> and 449 packages to merge...
[10:11] <ajmitch> oh, he got the graphs working as well?
[10:12] <Toadstool> yup
[10:12] <ajmitch> nice :)
[10:14] <Toadstool> ok, I can't upload yet but at least I can prepare 1 or 2 uploads during my lunch break
[10:14] <ajmitch> I haven't started on universe stuff yet, most of that will be focused in the areas where I need things for specs :)
[10:14] <Toadstool> heh
[10:16] <ajmitch> I don't plan to do many general fixups for feisty, I fear I'll run out of time
[10:16] <Toadstool> I am too busy with work to do anything more advanced than basic merges and package maintenace :/
[10:19] <ajmitch> this one should be easy
[10:19] <ajmitch> hm, bother, a conflict
[10:20] <ajmitch> just build-deps, easy to resolve
[10:21] <Toadstool> easy merge, no challenge, next ;)
[10:21] <LaserJock> haha, I'm on the main.html page :-)
[10:21] <ajmitch> yay, selinux support in iptables
[10:22] <TheMuso> SO we are still waiting on feisty to be bootstrapped?
[10:22] <ajmitch> yeah, I touched iptables last, so it's mine to merge
[10:22] <ajmitch> yeah
[10:22] <TheMuso> Right.
[10:25] <LaserJock> ajmitch: how are merges handled in Main?
[10:26] <ajmitch> same way as universe
[10:26] <LaserJock> ok
[10:27] <ajmitch> last person who touched it gets it, unless it gets reassigned
[10:27] <ajmitch> I already cleared stealing samba from pitti, and libselinux from infinity
[10:27] <LaserJock> maybe I'll steal some
[10:27] <ajmitch> such as?
[10:27] <LaserJock> edubuntu stuff
[10:27] <ajmitch> talk to them before stealing, of course :)
[10:27] <LaserJock> gcompris, tuxpaint, tuxmath, xaos
[10:27] <LaserJock> well yeah
[10:28] <LaserJock> I need to get my Main skills sharpened
[10:30] <ajmitch> going for core dev?
[10:30] <zul> hmmm...i think ill merge xen-tools
[10:32] <ajmitch> zul: brave
[10:32] <zul> :P
[10:33] <ajmitch> there's a few changes in both
[10:35] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I'd like to, I want to work on Edubuntu
[10:42] <zul> right im going home later..
[10:45] <ezsquirt> is there a revu admin to save the queen ? err.. to add my key to REVU uploaders keyring :)
[10:46] <ajmitch> you have submitted your key to launchpad, and joined the team?
[10:46] <ezsquirt> yup
[10:47] <ezsquirt> i followed the steps from REVU wiki page
[10:47] <ajmitch> ok, doing the keyring sync now
[10:48] <ezsquirt> thanks
[10:52] <Toadstool> ajmitch: while you're on tiber, could you replace my SSH key with the new one on Launchpad? the old private key is on my computer in France and my parents don't want to switch it on again... :/
[10:59] <ajmitch> Toadstool: ok, just a minute
[11:00] <Toadstool> ajmitch: thanks a lot
[11:00] <ajmitch> it should work now
[11:02] <Toadstool> ajmitch: works, thanks :)
[11:24] <LaserJock> linux-source-2.6.19? is that right?
[11:24] <LaserJock> I thought we were at 2.6.18
[11:24] <ajmitch> yes, that's right
[11:25] <LaserJock> I mean, not that I think BenC is full of it
[11:25] <ajmitch> ii  linux-image-2.6.19-1-generic      2.6.19-1.1                        Linux kernel image for version 2.6.19 on x86/x86_64
[11:29] <ajmitch> LaserJock: where's that mail about motu school stuff?
[11:29] <LaserJock> it's coming
[11:30] <imbrandon> ok i just updated the SRU wiki workflow with crimsun's sugestions on the time ( to stay with the main timeline ) and sent a email to -motu with a summary so far
[11:30] <imbrandon> moins tseng LaserJock ajmitch
[11:30] <ajmitch> imbrandon: hey
[11:30] <bhale> hey imbrandon
[11:33] <lfittl> hrmm, should a package depend on stuff that is pulled in by ubuntu-minimal? (in this case, lighttpd depends on perl-modules, and I am not sure if it is necessary)
[11:35] <imbrandon> lfittl, its my understanding it should depend on anything that is not debootstraped
[11:37] <lfittl> imbrandon: and debootstraped is everything that has Priority: essential, right?
[11:37] <imbrandon> afaik yes
[11:37] <LaserJock> well, Priority:essential is the particular criteria
[11:37] <LaserJock> but yeah
[11:38] <lfittl> k, thanks
[11:38] <Adri2000> I have a tarball foo-x.y but the directory in it is just foo (without the version), and dh_make doesn't work because it wants the version in the directory name
[11:39] <Adri2000> can I just rename the directory?
[11:41] <LaserJock> Adri2000: yep
[11:42] <Adri2000> ok
[11:42] <luisbg> which game can I play in ubuntu without video card acceleration? what do you recommend?
[11:47] <imbrandon> chess
[11:48] <superm1> luisbg, any of the games installed by default in gnome-games, gnome-sudoku, supertux
[11:48] <imbrandon> heya superm1
[11:48] <superm1> hey imbrandon
[11:49] <LaserJock> ok, bombs away ajmitch
[11:49] <superm1> imbrandon, jono got ahold of me, and now there is an official mythtv team :)
[11:49] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ii ? you have a feisty system already ?
[11:49] <imbrandon> superm1, rockin, on LP ? i should probably join that
[11:50] <superm1> yup
[11:50] <superm1> i'll throw ya in it
[11:50] <imbrandon> k
[11:50] <superm1> the wiki page outlining the team isn't ready or started for that matter, but we've got ideas for it all ready and such
[11:50] <imbrandon> nice
[11:50] <superm1> i'll be assembling it later before i head to bed
[11:50] <imbrandon> i'm working on another spec i'm going to try to squeeze in MTV
[11:51] <imbrandon> i hate writing specs
[11:51] <superm1> haha
[11:51] <ajmitch> imbrandon: of course I do
[11:51] <imbrandon> you brave soul
[11:51] <superm1> i wanted to see if i could get ivtv and lirc built with linux-restricted-modules, should i just file a bug or write a last minute spec for it u think?
[11:52] <imbrandon> thats not spec material i dont think
[11:52] <superm1> yea i didnt think so
[11:52] <superm1> pretty straightforward once we get a fully buildable lirc synced from debian
[11:52] <imbrandon> spec == planning and forethought, not just adding or removing packages
[11:52] <imbrandon> right
[11:53] <superm1> jono was saying though that shuttleworth wants feisty to have mythtv "just work", and not have any hassle with it
[11:53] <imbrandon> yea
[11:53] <imbrandon> its getting close
[11:53] <ajmitch> superm1: it'd be a nice thing to have
[11:53] <luisbg> anybody knows why worms of prey doesn't have ubuntu package? [ http://www.wormsofprey.org/download.html ] 
[11:54] <luisbg> I never game but I feel like it today, and just finded this one
[11:54] <ajmitch> because noone has packaged it?
[11:54] <imbrandon> luisbg, probably becouse no one in debian or ubuntu has taken the time to make proper packages and get them sponsored
[11:54] <superm1> i was talking to cesman on #knoppmyth though, and there is a rumor floating that they might adapt ubuntu instead for their base distro
[11:54] <bhale> sounds nice
[11:54] <superm1> so if that was the case, they'd probably use what we got going with feisty for a base and do some nifty live cd customization
[11:55] <luisbg> imbrandon, may I give it a try?
[11:55] <imbrandon> luisbg, sure if you feel like it, no ones gonna stop you :)
[11:55] <superm1> unless you do a bad job packaging it :)
[11:55] <imbrandon> lol they still wouldent stop you , they just woudlent uplaod it
[11:55] <luisbg> LOL
[11:56] <luisbg> superm1, :\
[11:56] <luisbg> will work on it tomorrow
[11:56] <luisbg> if I get something useful I will start searching for sponsoring motu's... so be scared
[11:58] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: just run away
[11:58] <imbrandon> back in ~15 min