[12:30] <Burgwork> ogra: ping
[12:31] <ogra> Burgwork, only two minutes ... i'm preparing for my flight ...
[12:31] <cbx33> hey peeps ... any one know why i just put a sound card into my edgy machine....and now the system is really really laggy, but with no visible processes running....IRQ conflict?
[12:31] <Burgwork> ogra: no worries
[12:31] <ogra> (in 5h but i'm packing here)
[12:31] <cbx33> running a top shows nothing
[12:31] <cbx33> but the mouse and keyboard are really really laggy
[12:31] <Burgwork> ogra: just wanted to talk about specs,
[12:32] <ogra> Burgwork, edubuntu-directory-server ?
[12:32] <Burgwork> ogra: funnily enough, yes
[12:33] <ogra> well, its about integrating AD into edubuntu ... whatever solution we'll have we'll have it deeply integrated in edubuntu and will have to have some installer tweaks ...
[12:34] <ogra> since i'm tired of being told that someone implements it i took a finished solution for the proposal, and invited upstream
[12:34] <Burgwork> ah
[12:35] <ogra> if you guys come up with something i can safely release with feisty, fine ... if not i'll go for smbldap, since thats the used solution in many/most edu distros atm
[12:35] <Burgwork> just wondering about it, 'cause I had never heard of it
[12:35] <ogra> and it seems to work well with generic admin tools
[12:36] <ogra> i submitted a spec for edgy already, which mdz marked obsolete because network-authentication was there ...
[12:36] <Burgwork> the other piece you might want to care about is lat, which might be accepted upstream in GNOME for their admin section
[12:36] <ogra> for feisty AD integration in edubuntu is one of my declared goals, its achievable with an existing solution 
[12:36] <ogra> oh, lat was the name ...
[12:37] <ogra> did you look at edsadmin ?
[12:37] <Burgwork> well, I am not going to be at MTV, but I am certain ajmitch and wasabi will talk well
[12:37] <Burgwork> took a peek at the screenshots
[12:38] <ogra> right, i saw that wasabi will come
[12:38] <ogra> as well as moquist and dtrask (smbldap upstream)
[12:38] <cbx33> w00t for the AD integration
[12:38] <Burgwork> is smblap an entire ldap server
[12:38] <Burgwork> ?
[12:38] <cbx33> been wanting that for ages
[12:38] <cbx33> please please please make it so we can map home dir's too
[12:39] <ogra> its http://www.majen.net/smbldap/
[12:39] <cbx33> ogra you're good with hardware....does my problem sound familiar to you? - could the sound card be confilcting with the usb?
[12:39] <Burgwork> yes, but that page wasn't clear
[12:40] <ogra> its only setting settings of samba, ldap, pam to act as NT4 AD server ...
[12:40] <Burgwork> ah, ok
[12:40] <Burgwork> have you seen easy-ldap-server?
[12:40] <Burgwork> our spec
[12:41] <ogra> roughly ... i didnt have much time the last days ...
[12:41] <Burgwork> ok, no worries
[12:41] <ogra> i'll look over it if i put details into the e-d-s spec
[12:41] <Burgwork> I am certain it will all come clear with discussions at MTV
[12:41] <ogra> (its still empty if you noticed)
[12:41] <Burgwork> yes
[12:41] <ogra> right
[12:41] <Burgwork> easy-ldap-server is pretty light on stuff
[12:42] <ogra> i just want to be sure to release a solution with feisty 
[12:42] <Burgwork> indeed
[12:42] <ogra> i dont care which one as long as its feasable
[12:42] <ogra> and smbldap simply is *t6he* solution in education atm ...
[12:43] <ogra> so we'll see where we probably could merge efforts ...i'm sure dtrask and moqist are open for everything
[12:44] <Burgwork> the -directory people aren't really concentrating on the server side this release
[12:44] <Burgwork> because we need a rock solid client-side solution first
[12:46] <ogra> well
[12:46] <ogra> thats quitre trivial pam changes for a start 
[12:46] <ogra> *quite
[12:46] <Burgwork> ajmitch knows the full details, along with wasabi
[12:46] <ogra> right 
[12:47] <Burgwork> as there are two somewhat parallel things
[12:47] <Burgwork> ubuntu <--> ubunt
[12:47] <Burgwork> and ubuntu <--> AD
[12:50] <Burgwork> ogra: are you also aware of the work Novell is doing?
[12:51] <ogra> yep ... but my time is up ...
[12:51] <Burgwork> no worries
[12:51] <Burgwork> good flight
[12:51] <Burgwork> I might see you in MTV
[12:51] <ogra> i really need to pack now eles i'll sleep to long :)
[12:52] <ogra> bye all
[12:57] <cbx33> bye ogra
[01:00] <Burgwork> cbx33: new project?
[01:00] <cbx33> yeh
[01:00] <cbx33> just a little app
[01:00] <cbx33> hoping it'll make it into feisty
[01:01] <Burgwork> what does it do?
[01:01] <cbx33> oooh...I can't give all that away
[01:02] <cbx33> then I'll show it to you guys first I promise
[01:03] <ajmitch> Burgwork: hm?
[01:03] <Burgwork> ajmitch: just talking about the edubuntu-auth-server stuff
[01:04] <ajmitch> ok
[01:37] <sbalneav> Happy Halloweeeeeeeeeeeen
[01:37] <sbalneav> Halloween apples!
[01:37] <sbalneav> Trick or Treat!
[01:38] <sbalneav> Smell my feet!
[01:38] <sbalneav> Give me something good to eat!
[01:44] <Burgwork> sbalneav: good evening
[01:47] <Burgwork> yay! halloween
[01:47] <Burgwork> I got a great halloween treat from work today
[01:47] <Burgwork> 19" widescreen monitor
[01:48] <sbalneav> Sweeet
[01:49] <sbalneav> LaserJock!!!
[02:32] <Burgwork> hey jsgotangco
[02:32] <jsgotangco> Burgwork: congratulations on your new laptop
[02:32] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:32] <Burgwork> indeed. congats on yours
[02:32] <Burgwork> means I am wipe windows off it
[02:33] <jsgotangco> really and i was planning to prepare it for vista
[02:33] <jsgotangco> bwahaha
[02:33] <jsgotangco> joke
[02:33] <Burgwork> but I shiny halloween gift from work
[02:33] <Burgwork> 19" widescreen monitor
[02:36] <LaserJock> you guys got new laptops?
[02:37] <nixternal> you guys stink!
[02:38] <nixternal> my laptop has died once again
[02:38] <Burgwork> laugh!
[02:38] <Burgwork> no
[02:38] <nixternal> don't know if a soldering job will fix it this time
[02:38] <Burgwork> the testing team laptops are ours now
[02:38] <nixternal> must be nice
[02:38] <LaserJock> ah cool
[02:40] <jsgotangco> nixternal: no our 1 1/2 year old laptops from canonical are now ours
[02:40] <nixternal> once again, "must be nice" ;)
[02:40] <nixternal> muhehe
[02:41] <Burgwork> I am debating buying on of those shiny lenovo thinkpads soonish
[02:41] <nixternal> 1 1/2 year laptop works though?  my 6yr< laptop doesn't again ;)
[02:41] <Burgwork> my laptop is too large and I dislike the widescreen
[02:41] <jsgotangco> nixternal: its pretty old now considering the shiny new core duos
[02:41] <nixternal> i want a widescreen, but i don't have the widescreen money
[02:41] <jsgotangco> hehe
[02:42] <jsgotangco> although i doubt there would be a laptop testing team part 2
[02:42] <nixternal> i can get a virgin mobile cell phone, about the closes i can get right now ;)
[02:42] <Burgwork> problem is, my widescreen is only 800pix high
[02:42] <Burgwork> which makes it hard to see anything
[02:42] <nixternal> lol, my laptop is that wide ;)
[02:43] <LaserJock> I was thinking of trying to get a 12 or 13 " for my next one (a long time from now)
[02:43] <nixternal> i can't complain, my lappy has been cranking out Linux for more than 6 years, and i had the display replaced once, for one that stinks, and i just tried to mend a warped motherboard, and im thinking i may need to do some more mending to it
[02:44] <Burgwork> back in a flash
[05:56] <highvoltage> sbalneav: you can get the ubuntu font by installing the ttf-ubuntu-title package
[07:11] <RichEd> morning all
[07:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> gday
[07:12] <RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser 
[07:13] <LaserJock> RichEd!
[07:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[07:16] <LaserJock> RichEd: finally got my email back
[07:16] <LaserJock> and read your menu email
[07:16] <RichEd> ah ... does it make sense ?
[07:17] <LaserJock> yeah, you want to be able to determine what the menu looks like without having to actually go in there and write it down
[07:17] <LaserJock> I gotta take a quick shower and then we can discuss it ;-)
[07:18] <RichEd> thanks ... I am also going though the feature request from the email lists, for discussion at the meeting today
[07:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> wb
[07:26] <RichEd> ping ?
[07:28] <LaserJock> RichEd: back
[07:28] <LaserJock> RichEd: basically, as you said, it's not straightforward
[07:29] <LaserJock> the menu is created dynamically from .directory, .menu, and .desktop files
[07:29] <LaserJock> so there is no one file that give the menu layout
[07:30] <RichEd> Can I step back a second to clarify what I am trying to achieve ? It may shortcut the discussion.
[07:31] <LaserJock> sure
[07:32] <RichEd> I have heard comments often from people that: "when you install windows, all you get is an operating system, but when you install (add any linux brand name here) you get open office and a whole lot of applications" ... so ...
[07:33] <RichEd> In order to get across what or how much more you get when you install Edubuntu ... ready to use off the CD ... it would be great if we could have a bullet list of applications.
[07:34] <LaserJock> yep that's what I did for the Edubuntu School Advocacy doc
[07:34] <LaserJock> I  just went down the menu
[07:34] <LaserJock> tedious
[07:35] <RichEd> So from my "naieve outside standpoint" surely there is a list that was compiled (and maintained) by the "person" who selected the applications ?
[07:36] <LaserJock> heh
[07:36] <LaserJock> the closest you will really get to a list of "stuff" is the seeds
[07:36] <RichEd> And a process for making changes to the list, that can trigger off a flag to update the promo bullet list ?
[07:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> if the menu is generated dynamically, cant it be 'recreated' for 'other use then showing'?
[07:37] <Burgundavia> a list of apps is easy
[07:37] <LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: not to my knowledge
[07:38] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: but a useful list of apps that is automatically maintained?
[07:38] <Burgundavia> sure
[07:38] <RichEd> And if there is currently not a process or list, would it make sense to create and maintain a list, with a process attached.
[07:38] <Burgundavia> /usr/share/applications/blah.desktop
[07:38] <Burgundavia> parse anything that is in accessories, games, etc.
[07:38] <Burgundavia> done
[07:38] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: sure, but that's assuming you have a default install
[07:39] <Burgundavia> any package should instlal there
[07:39] <Burgundavia> or ~/.local/applications/
[07:39] <LaserJock> right, but we are trying to maintain a list of apps installed by default
[07:40] <Burgundavia> to what end?
[07:40] <LaserJock> so you could do it in a chroot or you could go through the list of default packages and get it
[07:40] <Burgundavia> right
[07:40] <Burgundavia> for that you need something else entirely, assuming you are only talking ubuntu here
[07:40] <RichEd> To let you know where I am coming from, for a home user of windows, looking for applications on the internet, deciding what looks good, working out what what is freeware, shareware (with time expiry), cripple demo ware, downloading, installing ... all of these are a major schlep factor.
[07:40] <Burgundavia> right, are you trying to clone installs?
[07:40] <Burgundavia> I am still lost
[07:41] <RichEd> If we can say:
[07:41] <LaserJock> no, we are just trying to say, "Edubuntu comes installed with ..."
[07:41] <RichEd> [1]  you get this functionality ready to use off the CD
[07:41] <Burgundavia> right
[07:41] <Burgundavia> the seeds
[07:41] <LaserJock> right
[07:41] <LaserJock> I was going to suggest taking the seed and looking for .desktops
[07:41] <RichEd> [2]  you get this functionality off add/remove applications, with low level knowledge required to get up and running
[07:41] <Burgundavia> if you want a list of what is installed right now, post install, the packages for a raw list and the .desktop files for an "end user list"
[07:42] <RichEd> then to me this is a major plus factor
[07:42] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: seeds are already commented
[07:42] <Burgundavia> are we talking for marketing materials?
[07:42] <RichEd> yep ... web site, talks, presentations etc.
[07:42] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: but the seeds don't say which packages have .desktops
[07:42] <Burgundavia> if they are enduser apps, they have .desktop files
[07:42] <LaserJock> right, that's what I said
[07:43] <Burgundavia> the default loadout is pretty easy to get
[07:43] <Burgundavia> you can also just eyeball a default install
[07:43] <LaserJock> yep
[07:43] <LaserJock> RichEd was just looking for something we could easily maintain
[07:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> how does add/remove apps do its thing? 
[07:44] <Burgundavia> our brains, those maintain well
[07:44] <LaserJock> we *were* going to make a wiki page with that material
[07:44] <Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: parses .desktop files
[07:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> 'its thing' being say 'packages selected' and 'packages available'?
[07:44] <Burgundavia> there is already one out there
[07:44] <Burgundavia> Edubuntu does not ship with that many apps
[07:44] <LaserJock> more then Ubuntu
[07:44] <Burgundavia> not that many
[07:44] <LaserJock> no
[07:44] <Burgundavia> KDE-edu suite, gcompris
[07:45] <Burgundavia> what else?
[07:45] <LaserJock> tuxmath
[07:45] <Burgundavia> right
[07:45] <LaserJock> tuxpaint
[07:45] <LaserJock> xaos
[07:45] <Burgundavia> inkscape? dia?
[07:45] <LaserJock> denemo and kino I think
[07:45] <Burgundavia> RichEd: I can probably list off the list of apps edubuntu and ubuntu ship just off the top of my head
[07:45] <LaserJock> we did have blender I think at one point
[07:45] <Burgundavia> it is a fairly static list
[07:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, can you autolist intoa  wiki? ;)
[07:46] <Burgundavia> for instance, 6.10 added f-spot and tomboy
[07:46] <RichEd> Burgundavia: ^^ Kamping_Kaiser 
[07:46] <Burgundavia> upstream added baobob and invest applet
[07:47] <RichEd> So Burgundavia does every upstream application make its way into our variant ?
[07:48] <Burgundavia> largely yes, but I don't think Edubuntu has mono yet
[07:48] <LaserJock> you can get the differences by diffing the seeds
[07:48] <Burgundavia> now that they are maintained in bzr, it is trivially easy
[07:49] <LaserJock> yeah, I've done it a few times
[07:49] <Burgundavia> but honestly, once we get a list once, it will take 5 minutes to prune/add it for each release
[07:49] <RichEd> Burgundavia: 100% ...
[07:50] <RichEd> tell you what ... I'll start a list on a wiki page, and then you can let me know what I've missed, and who is responsible for each addition/removal/update, and give suggestions on how we keep the list current
[07:50] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[07:51] <RichEd> I would love to have a bullet list of application and functionality:
[07:51] <RichEd> [1]   this you can do with just the CD
[07:51] <Burgundavia> you are about to get it
[07:51] <RichEd> [2]  this you can do if you have an internet connection
[07:51] <RichEd> etc.
[07:51] <LaserJock> [2]  is tough
[07:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> 2 if you have the cd, 3 if you have a net connection wouldnt it? or does hte live cd not support post-install instlaling?
[07:52] <LaserJock> but I hope by the end of feisty we'll have a better list
[07:52] <RichEd> LaserJock: if it's tough for us, how tough is it for an end user ?
[07:52] <Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: if you have the alternate cd, yes
[07:52] <LaserJock> RichEd: much more so
[07:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> but not on the live? :|
[07:52] <Burgundavia> live is not packages
[07:52] <LaserJock> no, the live cd doesn't have an .debs
[07:52] <Burgundavia> live is data, unpacked .debs
[07:53] <RichEd> Just look at the amount of discussion this "seemingly simple request" has generated.
[07:53] <Burgundavia> 2 is more like CNR
[07:53] <Burgundavia> we can, however, prune the lsit out
[07:53] <Burgundavia> recommend apps in each category
[07:54] <LaserJock> meta-packages (or takss) for each category
[07:54] <LaserJock> *tasks
[07:54] <Burgundavia> kind of overkill, for what is likely one package
[07:55] <Burgundavia> I am thinking: Video Editing: Kino (installed)
[07:55] <Burgundavia> once we get them into Edubuntu, we have gnome-app-install
[07:55] <Burgundavia> RichEd: have you played much with it?
[07:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> easy describing also helps when you want to contact people to ask what would help them ;)
[07:56] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I was thinking more along the lines of edubuntu-science, edubuntu-math, etc.
[07:56] <Burgundavia> right
[07:56] <Burgundavia> that is slightly tangent to what we are talking about
[07:56] <LaserJock> I don't think it is necessarily
[07:56] <RichEd> Burgundavia: mostly productivity work ... not as a "what else can I do suite"
[07:57] <Burgundavia> RichEd: sorry?
 RichEd: have you played much with it?
[07:57] <Burgundavia> right
[07:58] <RichEd> Okay ... I'm going to slip out of the current discussion, and get the wiki page up. Then we can discuss in a sticky fashion.
[07:58] <LaserJock> I think if we had groupings of packages into meta packages then [2]  becomes much easier
[07:59] <LaserJock> there is a very large amount of packages in Universe that people have acces to
[07:59] <LaserJock> letting people know that is important, IMO
[08:00] <Burgundavia> help.u.c down for anybody else?
[08:01] <LaserJock> nope
[08:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> dns works -> help.ubuntu.com has address 82.211.81.234
[08:08] <RichEd> LaserJock: also, I think we should have in the list / matrix:
[08:08] <RichEd> Available in [Dapper-LTS]  [Edgy]  [Feisty] 
[08:08] <RichEd> Maybe even:
[08:08] <Burgundavia> RichEd: 6.06, 6.10
[08:08] <RichEd> Available in [Ubuntu]  [Edubuntu]  [Kubuntu] 
[08:08] <Burgundavia> the code names are not used
[08:08] <RichEd> so noted
[08:09] <Burgundavia> anythin in Ubuntu is also in everything else and vice versa
[08:09] <Burgundavia> they share the same repos
[08:09] <RichEd> Burgundavia: you commented above "I don't think edubuntu has mon yet"
[08:09] <RichEd> mono
[08:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> imo if you care about gtk/qt/gnome/kde dependancies, you know enough to look it up.
[08:09] <Burgundavia> ah, by default
[08:10] <Burgundavia> ubuntu installs mono by default
[08:10] <Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: the end user shouldn't care and that is what we have repos for
[08:10] <Burgundavia> we are recommending best of breed apps
[08:11] <RichEd> It may be a bit of work to set it up now (which I am prepared to do) but my thinking is "the list can only change if some human being makes a decision" and so if we have a full list, and an update trigger for when that human makes a decision, we can keep it up to date as a matter of process.
[08:11] <Burgundavia> how big do you imagine this list to be?
[08:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, *most* end users dont.
[08:12] <Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: we can say "you may also try"
[08:12] <Burgundavia> if they know what gtk and qt are, they can figure it out
[08:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> pretty much.
[08:14] <RichEd> end users don't figure stuff out ... either it hits them across the head in big marketing bite size chunks, or they take the eaist path, which is ignorance, or a route away
[08:14] <RichEd> easiest
[08:15] <RichEd> Now although I am not encouraging that sort of consumer behavior, if we want to target the mass audience, we need to cater for them ... which I am prepared to do, alongside the excellent dev work that the tech heads are already providing.
[08:17] <Burgundavia> the biggest thing we can do is the following: promote the crap out of gnome-app-install
[08:17] <Burgundavia> talk it up all the time
[08:18] <Burgundavia> everything is moving deck chairs on the ship
[08:19] <RichEd> Last comment on this angle, is that the end user has no clue what gnome is, never mind what gnome-app-install is ... but if he sees "hey it comes with a free CAD package I can use to plan the extra room my wife and I want to build for the new kid on the way" then he sees a real world benefit to him.
[08:20] <Burgundavia> that is why gnome-app-isntall is cunningly diguised as "Add/Remove Applications" on the applications menu
[08:22] <Burgundavia> hey willvdl
[08:22] <willvdl> Burgundavia, hey
[08:23] <RichEd> agreed ... but add/remove applications is only visible once the guy has installed, which brings me back in a full circle to the start if this thread, where can I list what is available !
[08:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[08:23] <RichEd> hi willvdl 
[08:23] <willvdl> hi there
[08:23] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:24] <willvdl> RichEd, missed the thread but are you referring to a list of (grouped) apps during the install?
[08:26] <RichEd> a bullet point list of "what you get when you install edubuntu"
[08:26] <RichEd> "what you can download and install if you have an internet conntection"
[08:27] <RichEd> application name and functionality ... bite size promotional chunk sfor Joe VeryAverage
[08:27] <willvdl> ooh, the latter could be a big list :)
[08:30] <RichEd> on the on hand, that is a drawback, on the other hand it is a "wow, look at al the shit I can get" !
[08:30] <RichEd> *on the one hand
[08:35] <willvdl> point
[08:36] <nixternal> hehe
[08:36] <willvdl> I must make a point of looking at xubuntu again since breezy
[08:36] <RichEd> willvdl: good point ... if we could show those figures, in an Amazon like format, that would be a good thing" people who teach this subject also downloaded these applications"
[08:38] <willvdl> one would then need a user profile for people to download. not sure if that would happen
[08:38] <willvdl> unless we grew the comm to advocate certain apps
[08:39] <RichEd> aim high, start low ... just a thought to keep on radar ... we may be able to get something like this in the user space as a long term target
[08:46] <LaserJock> well, there is popcon
[08:48] <willvdl> popcon?
[08:50] <LaserJock> popularity contest
[08:50] <LaserJock> popcon.ubuntu.com
[08:51] <willvdl> ooh. missed that
[08:51] <LaserJock> I believe it is being used to "rate" packages in gnome-app-install
[08:52] <LaserJock> yikes
[08:52] <RichEd> you see ! we have the bits we need, just dispersed, and all we need is coordination, not creation.
[08:53] <RichEd> so much of the work has been done ... it's just a (current) pity that we do not have the last mile
[09:02] <highvoltage> RichEd: I think you hit the nail on the head :)
[09:10] <RichEd> highvoltage: Often I picture Mike Chiles or Alixe Lowenherz or Trudi in my head, and think about what they need or what would make sense to them in the course of their working day.
[09:11] <RichEd> We've already got something of huge benefit to them, we just need to be able to wrap it up in a format that rings their bells.
[09:42] <RichEd> pygi ... hello there
[09:42] <jsgmobile> Hey
[09:43] <pygi> hey RichEd 
[09:49] <RichEd> 'lo jsgmobile
[09:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi jsgmobile 
[09:55] <jsgmobile> Hey
[09:56] <jsgmobile> This sucks it has no tab completion
[09:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> ow, how can you handle it :(
[09:57] <jsgmobile> I just type
[09:57] <jsgmobile> I have a qwerty layout
[09:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgmobile, how mobile are you? pda mobile, or laptop mobile?
[09:59] <jsgmobile> Mobile phone via wlan hehehe
[10:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
[10:01] <Burgundavia> night all
[10:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> night
[10:01] <jsgmobile> It seems im using it more for data rather than voice
[10:16] <RichEd> g'night Burgundavia ...
[10:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> cool.
[10:53] <kwak> hi, anybody has a guide on how to authenticate an edubuntu box to Active Directory?
[10:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/HOWTO:_Configure_Ubuntu_for_Active_Directory_Authentication
[10:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> novell might be able to help ;)
[10:56] <kwak> im using k12ltsp 5.0 at the moment, but planning to move to edubuntu. hows the performance of edubuntu compared to fedora 5
[10:56] <kwak> ive been having problem with fedora.
[10:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> dont know. i dont use rpm distros
[10:57] <kwak> i think because of my broadcom Gb NICs. 
[10:57] <kwak> anybody knows if there's a problem with broadcom NICs in edubuntu?
[11:04] <kwak> where's teh download page for edubuntu. i went to /download. nothing's there
[11:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> tried download.edubuntu?
[11:05] <kwak> yes.
[11:05] <kwak> none
[11:05] <RichEd> kwak: let me check for you
[11:06] <kwak> hi RichEd.
[11:06] <kwak> i waited for this version (6.10). 
[11:07] <kwak> hope this will work fine for me now.
[11:07] <RichEd> kwak: have you tried this http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
[11:07] <kwak> yes
[11:07] <RichEd> and what goes wrong or is the problem  ?
[11:08] <kwak> no link for download
[11:08] <RichEd> ?? there is a list of country mirrors ??
[11:09] <kwak> i only see three hyperlinks. 1 release announcement, 2, instructions on how to burn the CD, 3, Edubuntu 6.10: the newest Edubuntu release.
[11:09] <kwak> the latter is not responding to my click
[11:09] <kwak> that's weight, i don't have that list
[11:10] <RichEd> [Edubuntu 6.10, the Newest Edubuntu Release]  that is a heading ... you should also have a list underneath that like this:
[11:10] <kwak> yeah, i see that, nothing underneath that.
[11:11] <RichEd> refresh your page please and let me know ... I'll also /msg you the links
[11:11] <kwak> i did a refresh. still the same
[11:12] <kwak> hope its not blocked by the government here. 
[11:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> http://edubuntu.org/Download#edgy has the country list - whats wrong with using one of them?
[11:12] <kwak> i don't see any reason.
[11:12] <RichEd> what is the last line you see on your screen  ??
[11:12] <kwak> Edubuntu 6.10: the newest Edubuntu release If you would like to benefit from the latest Edubu
[11:13] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: his page is busted
[11:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> aaah ok. how bizare
[11:13] <RichEd> kwak ... the page you are seeing is about 20% of the full page ... something is wrong with your connection or proxy I think
[11:14] <kwak> yeah. i think filtering from the ISP.
[11:14] <RichEd> I see that you have seen my msg window links ... try those and let me know if you have any problem
[11:15] <kwak> i tried the torrent file.
[11:15] <kwak> btw, how's the performance of edubunt 6.10 compare to k12ltsp (fedora 5)
[11:15] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: re our application conversation earlier, I have found some pages on the wiki, but they are (1) old (2) duplicate and (3) a bit long and confusing ... so it has been attemepted before ...
[11:16] <RichEd> kwak: 6.10 uses LTSP 5 pre-release ... which has significant benefits in MTSP mode
[11:16] <RichEd> let me get the release announcement link for you
[11:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> i find such lists quite hard to make+maintain - i have tried before (not for ubuntu)
[11:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> which is why i would rather a technical solution
[11:17] <RichEd> kwak see: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8 [ Features of the integration work for LTSP-5 in Edubuntu include ] 
[11:18] <kwak> thanks
[11:18] <kwak> i read that
[11:19] <kwak> does edubuntu have issues with broadcom NICs
[11:20] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: My approach is to cobble together by hand, then improve. I find a reality easier to get going forwards than an theoretical that gets bogged down in debate. No comment on you :) just that when people see a "imperfect solution" they usually are quick to help improve it ... which gets a result, with improvements.
[11:20] <RichEd> So you can think of the auto-update while I build the first step :)
[11:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> but i feel in this case your finding several not-there-yets displays the flaw in the method :O, unless your the one coming and improving of course :)
[11:21] <RichEd> kwak: not sure ... the best people to ask are all on their way to a LTSP conference
[11:21] <kwak> oic.
[11:21] <kwak> well, i will just try it. always having the same problem with K12ltsp
[11:22] <RichEd> I think the previous efforts were done by the technical people, who had to focus on techincak solution, which made fixing and updating a nice to have. I come from the opposite end (user focus) so for me it is a more signficant focus, and I will persevere.
[11:22] <RichEd> jello cbx33 
[11:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> ah, verry good, verry good. 
[11:23] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: back to that team argument ... chew the bone from both ends
[11:24] <cbx33> hey RichEd 
[11:24] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: note that I can raise the discussion as an offline UDS topic ... show the page / concept and ask who would be dong stuff that impacts the list.
[11:24] <RichEd> *doing
[11:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> does 'offline' mean 'incidental'?
[11:25] <RichEd> As I said earlier, a human being must be the trigger point for each addition / removal / sideways movement of any application, so if I can get list #1 and then link to trigger people, it must be possible to keep myself updated, even if it is on a nag reminder basis.
[11:26] <RichEd> offline means I will not get it onto a team discussion with its own room and agenda, but I can ask questions in the corridors and lunch breaks, and take the "lobbying approach"
[11:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> aah right.
[11:58] <RichEd> hi juliux ... I've just collected my passport & schwengen ... thanks for your help
[11:58] <juliux> RichEd, cool
[11:59] <RichEd> [12:00] <juliux> RichEd, can you e-mail me your flight details?
[12:00] <RichEd> sure ... let me grao them for you now ...
[12:00] <RichEd> *grab
[12:02] <juliux> RichEd, dresden is a very small airport so you will finde the way out;)
[12:02] <RichEd> :)
[12:04] <RichEd> juliux: mail sent
[12:04] <juliux> thxs
[12:28] <RichEd> hello ... anyone got some time to help me prepare spec summary from LP for the meeting discussion ?
[12:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm willing to try
[12:31] <RichEd> thanks Kamping_Kaiser : there are a bunch of discussion topics / specs on this page:
[12:31] <RichEd> https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv
[12:31] <RichEd> Would you be able to go through and note the ones:
[12:31] <RichEd> 1. assigned to Oliver
[12:32] <RichEd> 2. which look edubuntu / or education related ?
[12:32] <RichEd> I'm building this page: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu
[12:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'll note them down for you, then work out step 2
[12:32] <RichEd> And am myself going through the edubuntu-user & edubuntu-devel emails
[12:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok :)
[12:33] <RichEd> Thanks ... we just need enough detail to allow us to chat through at the meeting soon. You can cut & paste to a /msg window ? 
[12:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> sure.
[12:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> so spec name, and priority?
[12:42] <RichEd> that should be fine ... we can always get a quick summary as we go through each
[12:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, all the stuff for 'ubuntu directory services' (easy-ldap-server, network-auth), do you want them?
[12:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> the network auth for example is meantioned in a spec
[12:48] <RichEd> if you can, please ... I am actually cutting and pasting users requests for this right now !
[12:48] <juliux> !seen ogra
[12:48] <ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 11h 43m 50s ago, quiting: "Verlassend"
[12:48] <pips1> hi there
[12:49] <pips1> meeting in 10 mins, right?
[12:49] <RichEd> hello pips :)
[12:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i have 17 specs. i'll pm them to you. 12 are edubuntu related/ltsp. 5 are ubuntu dir.services
[12:49] <RichEd> yep ... 10 mins
[12:49] <RichEd> lovely thanks Kamping_Kaiser 
[12:50] <RichEd> juliux: ogra last seen leaving frankfurt airport and sitting in row 54d ecomony on the way to the us of a
[12:50] <juliux> RichEd, thanks;)
[12:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok, you have them all. hope i got all the ones that are deemed relevent :)
[12:50] <juliux> RichEd, only ecomony?
[12:51] <RichEd> thanks ... that's enough to discuss ... us or others can refine on the page after the meeting 
[12:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> darn. i just damaged my monitor
[12:57] <RichEd> [12:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> whew, just in time
[01:03] <juliux> yeah, localdev is workind with my thinclients;)
[01:08] <juliux> highvoltage, is this a known bug? http://ubuntu.juliux.de/message1.png
[01:10] <highvoltage> juliux: :)
[01:10] <juliux> highvoltage, yes or no? :)
[01:11] <highvoltage> juliux: I can't say that I've seen it before
[01:12] <juliux> highvoltage, if the message you send via student control isnt log enough the window is to small and you can read the window title
[01:47] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: scp
[01:47] <edubuntugirl> highvoltage: what?
[01:47] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: scp is secure copy, or see s-c-p
[01:47] <edubuntugirl> highvoltage: daar's hy
[01:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
[01:47] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: s-c-p
[01:47] <edubuntugirl> s-c-p is student-control-panel, bzr archive under people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/, spec under https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
[02:37] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: google  pysycache
[02:37] <edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Google found 'PySyCache - Application ducative', at http://www.pysycache.org/
[03:03] <jsgotangco> pips1: you can remove the admin access of the drupal cms for my username, i may not be able to do much even thanks 
[03:04] <pips1> jsgotangco: ok. I wish you all the best at work and hope to see you back for feisty+1 for sure :)
[03:05] <pips1> I suspect you'll be around on irc in the mean time...
[03:06] <jsgotangco> pretty much, i dont do much at night really except hang around on irc
[03:06] <pips1> heh
[03:07] <pips1> you might want to consider sleep? 
[03:08] <jsgotangco> more like get some real work done ;)
[03:52] <Joe_SWAU> Hello. :-) I was updating, and the laptop lost power. Now it won't boot. What do I need to do? I already tried the rescue boot command from the live cd. It wouldn't do anything just gave me some error.
[03:56] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:00] <sbalneav> Morning all
[04:01] <bddebian> Heya sbalneav
[04:03] <pygi> hey ho sbalneav 
[04:03] <sbalneav> hello hello hello
[04:05] <juliux> has somebody an idea why the sound comes out at my server and not at the client?
[04:06] <pygi> how is you sbalneav ? :)
[04:06] <RichEd> hello sbalneav sbalneav sbalneav 
[04:06] <sbalneav> I'm fine.
[04:06] <RichEd> sbalneav: are you at the LTSP user conf with ogra ?
[04:06] <sbalneav> RichEd: I certainly am.
[04:06] <sbalneav> juliux: is this a fresh install of edubuntu?
[04:07] <pygi> sbalneav: will we even try to implement that burning on LTSP for feisty or is that dropped?
[04:07] <juliux> sbalneav, it was an edgy beta installtion
[04:07] <juliux> sbalneav, localdev is working, only sound is not working
[04:07] <RichEd> sbalneav: Give ogra him my regards ... and let him know that I will send him an email about our meeting topday and specs / featrures meetings
[04:07] <sbalneav> juliux: Have you upgraded?
[04:07] <juliux> sbalneav, yes
[04:07] <juliux> sbalneav, if ogra is next to you ask him about sound at the rangee thinclients;)
[04:07] <sbalneav> RichEd: Well, I'm not seeing him until tomorrow.  But I'll let him know.
[04:08] <juliux> sbalneav, it is a normal edgy now
[04:08] <sbalneav> juliux: Edgy edubuntu, or edgy ubuntu?
[04:08] <RichEd> thanks ... there are what looks like a few duplicate specs, so we wanted to get our heads together about an early meeting to combine.
[04:08] <juliux> sbalneav, edgy edubuntu;)
[04:09] <sbalneav> is this the user you created at install time, or a newer user?
[04:09] <sbalneav> You may need to add this user into the audio group
[04:10] <juliux> sbalneav, it is a second user and he is in the audio group
[04:10] <sbalneav> pygi: Yes, I'd still like to target for feisty.
[04:10] <pygi> sbalneav: oki, I'll try to get the new libburn out as soon as I can then
[04:11] <sbalneav> k
[04:11] <sbalneav> juliux: ok, hold on, give me a sec..
[04:11] <juliux> sbalneav, ok
[04:17] <juliux> hi Yagisan 
[04:17] <Yagisan> G'day juliux 
[04:18] <pips1> juliux: I had the same sound prob after my upgrade, but then I re-did 'ltsp-build-client' and now it's working here.
[04:19] <pips1> juliux: did you see the post to the edubuntu-devel mailing list about this? "sound on clients" 
[04:21] <juliux> pips1, yes, but it is a fresh edgy installtion
[04:21] <juliux> pips1, not an upgrade from dapper to edgy
[04:21] <pips1> ic
[04:22] <pips1> right, so there is a chance that it might actually be a bug.. hmm
[04:22] <juliux> perhaps
[04:22] <juliux> it could be also the thinclient;)
[04:23] <pips1> righty
[04:24] <pips1> I haven't tested the fresh server install with the final release, but with an earlier daily build, it was working for me, afaik
[04:25] <juliux> hm 
[04:25] <pips1> juliux: where in Germany are you based?
[04:25] <juliux> pips1, dresden
[04:26] <juliux> it is in east germany
[04:26] <pips1> I've only been there once - long time ago, as a kid, with my parents, when it was still DDR
[04:26] <juliux> i never was in the ddr
[04:27] <sbalneav> juliux: You said it was a beta upgraded
[04:27] <sbalneav> now you say it's a fresh install
[04:27] <sbalneav> which is it?
[04:27] <juliux> sbalneav, it is a beta upgrade,with fresh install i mean not an upgrade from dapper;)
[04:28] <sbalneav> ok, hold on, I'm at work, and I'm having to set up a client to test.
[04:28] <juliux> ok
[04:29] <pips1> hmm, wouldn't it be worth trying to re-build the client ? that get's me thinking.. how do the upgrades get deployed to the chroot ?
[04:30] <pips1> s/ugrades/updates
[04:31] <juliux> pips1, i will give this a try, so at  first delete /opt/lspt/ and then rebuild it?
[04:33] <juliux> pips1, i found your mail at the devel list will test it
[04:34] <pips1> to be on the safe side, you might want to mv /opt/ltsp/i386 first, and then re-build
[04:34] <juliux> ok
[04:50] <sbalneav> juliux: What's the value of the ESPEAKER environment variable?
[04:50] <juliux> sbalneav, on the thinclient?
[04:51] <sbalneav> i.e. open a terminal when you log in on the thin client, and type env | grep ESPEAKER
[04:53] <sbalneav> Meeting.  be back later.
[04:56] <juliux> sbalneav, i am rebuilding the chroot at the moment
[05:18] <juliux> pips1, i get an error during ltsp-build-chroot
[05:18] <juliux> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 mount -t proc proc /proc
[05:18] <juliux> error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
[05:18] <pips1> :-(
[05:18] <juliux> that is not good:(
[05:19] <pips1> did you backup your chroot?
[05:19] <juliux> yes
[05:20] <pips1> hmm, I wonder why it failed... I suppose ogra or sbalneav could shed some light on this
[05:21] <juliux> i will wait
[05:21] <pips1> also, did you do the ltsp-build-chroot via internet ? or locally, with cd?
[05:22] <pips1> you can use the installer cd to speed up the build-ltsp-client process... also, sbalneav introduced me to 'apt-cacher' local archive for .debs from the cd
[05:23] <pips1> to use the cd, you can do ##mount /cdrom && sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
[05:24] <juliux> pips1, via internet but all the packages are allready installed
[05:24] <juliux> there was not download
[05:24] <juliux> i can paste the whole output
[05:24] <juliux> pips1, hang one there was an error 
[05:24] <juliux> bevore
[05:28] <juliux> hi cbx33 
[05:28] <pygi> hey cbx33 
[05:28] <cbx33> hey juliux 
[05:28] <cbx33> hi pygi 
[05:44] <cbx33> hey mario_ 
[05:44] <mario_> hey cbx33 
[06:04] <ajayc> RichEd, ping
[06:05] <cbx33> anyone here know any japanese?
[06:08] <pips1> cbx33: my wife does, but she isn't home yet
[06:08] <cbx33> ok
[06:08] <ajayc> i just know one word
[06:08] <ajayc> sayonara
[06:08] <ajayc> :D
[06:14] <pips1> cbx33: how much do you need translated? or do you need real-time translation?
[06:14] <cbx33> I'm trying to learn some with my wife
[06:14] <pips1> ah
[06:16] <LaserJock> how did the meeting go?
[06:16] <pips1> I think it's possible to pick up spoken japanese comparatively easy, but reading and writing is another story
[06:17] <pips1> LaserJock: we went through all the user requirements from https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu to determine what specs are still missing from MV
[06:17] <pips1> *for
[06:17] <LaserJock> ah
[06:24] <LaserJock> hi cbx33 
[06:24] <cbx33> hey LaserJock 
[06:24] <cbx33> howz it going dude
[06:24] <LaserJock> I'm trying to quickly come up with some kinetic equations
[06:25] <LaserJock> before I go meet with my boss to discuss data fitting
[06:28] <cbx33> bbl
[06:30] <LaserJock> pips1: that's quite a lot of info
[06:31] <pips1> yeah, RichEd will go over it and merge duplicate requests, etc
[08:06] <juliux> sbalneav, the output from env |grep ESPEAKER ist ESPEAKER=10.10.23.242:16001
[08:06] <sbalneav> ok
[08:06] <juliux> sbalneav, that is the ip from the client the server has 10.10.23.254
[08:06] <juliux> sbalneav, but the sound is still on the server
[08:07] <sbalneav> So, when you log in, the little chord that sounds comes out on the server too?
[08:07] <juliux> no
[08:08] <juliux> if i login there is not the start sound
[08:08] <sbalneav> Can you go to the menu "System -> Preference -> Sound" please?
[08:09] <sbalneav> On the first tab, what are the settings?
[08:10] <juliux> autodetect
[08:11] <highvoltage> http://xkcd.com/c178.html
[08:11] <sbalneav> ok, under the "Sounds" tab at the top, is "Enable software mixing (ESD) checked?
[08:12] <juliux> yes it is enabled
[08:13] <sbalneav> What happens if you click on the little ">" button next to the login or logout sound.
[08:14] <juliux> nothing
[08:14] <juliux> i hear no sound;)
[08:15] <sbalneav> Do you know sound works at all on that terminal?  I.e. does Linux detect sound on it using the ubuntu live disk?
[08:16] <juliux> it is a thinclient so i cant test it with a live disk;)
[08:16] <sbalneav> So, perhaps sound might just not work on that box?
[08:16] <juliux> orga has the some thinclient and i remeber that he said that sound works
[08:17] <juliux> s/same/some
[08:17] <sbalneav> What kind of thin client is it?
[08:17] <linuxboy> edubuntugirl: liferea
[08:17] <edubuntugirl> linuxboy: huh?
[08:17] <juliux> it is a bt100 from fujitsu siemens
[08:17] <sbalneav> Not familiar with it.
[08:17] <sbalneav> How many thin clients do you have?
[08:17] <sbalneav> just the one?
[08:18] <juliux> i have three
[08:18] <juliux> i will test an other one
[08:19] <sbalneav> it could be 4 things:
[08:19] <sbalneav> 1) That PARTICULAR thin client doesn't work.
[08:19] <sbalneav> 2) That TYPE of thin client doesn't work
[08:19] <sbalneav> 3) Theres a user setup issue with that user
[08:19] <sbalneav> 4) theres a bug
[08:20] <juliux> at 3) i test it also with my admin account
[08:21] <juliux> sbalneav, is there a list of supportet audio chips?
[08:22] <sbalneav> So, does it work work with the admin account?
[08:22] <juliux> no it is also not working with my admin account
[08:22] <sbalneav> Then it's either 1 or 2
[08:22] <juliux> ok 
[08:23] <juliux> sbalneav, it is a ad1881a audio chip
[08:24] <sbalneav> I'm not familiar with it.
[08:24] <sbalneav> I don't know if it works or not.
[08:24] <juliux> ok, thxs for your help
[08:25] <sbalneav> Do you have a different kind of thin client there, like an old PC to test with?
[08:26] <juliux> no
[08:26] <juliux> i have only my notebook and thinclients
[08:28] <juliux> sbalneav, the card is supported by the snd_intel8x0 module
[08:28] <juliux> sbalneav, it is also loaded
[08:30] <juliux> hm there is no esd running is that ok?
[08:35] <sbalneav> on the client?
[08:36] <juliux> i havent checked
[08:37] <sbalneav> Did you end up rebuilding the ltsp chroot?
[08:37] <sbalneav> /opt/ltsp?
[08:37] <juliux> yes
[08:38] <juliux> there is no esd running on the thinclient
[08:38] <juliux> is that ok?
[08:39] <pips1> does anyone know how long each BOF session is at UDS Mountain View? (how many minutes per BOF session) ?
[08:40] <sbalneav> Hmm, there should be an esd running on the client.
[08:40] <sbalneav> What's the contents of your /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
[08:40] <sbalneav> ?
[08:40] <sbalneav> pips1: They're usually an hour
[08:41] <pips1> sbalneav: and what is the break time in-between?
[08:41] <sbalneav> like, maybe, 5 minutes.
[08:41] <sbalneav> It's a full 8-10 hour day.
[08:41] <pips1> oki, ic.
[08:41] <sbalneav> you work.
[08:41] <juliux> sbalneav, http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/4815/
[08:41] <sbalneav> haaaaard.
[08:42] <juliux> sbalneav, if i type in esd i get an error that no card is found;)
[08:42] <pips1> sbalneav: I assume you are a hard-working fella ;-) what is your BOF average per day?
[08:43] <pips1> I mean, how did it pan out in the past... how many BOFs did you manage to attend on a day?
[08:43] <pips1> 6? or more like 3-4?
[09:56] <sorush20> hi anyone here hase qtiplot? 
[09:56] <LaserJock> hmm, not right now
[09:56] <LaserJock> what's up?
[09:57] <sorush20> well I just would like to compile it and use it .. but we have to buy the .deb for some reason.. 
[09:57] <sorush20> don't know if that is allowed.. 
[09:58] <LaserJock> what do you mean by "allowed"
[09:59] <LaserJock> hmm, that is interesting
[10:01] <LaserJock> sorush20: well, you can download the source and compile
[10:01] <sorush20> I have a problem
[10:01] <sorush20> the dependency is missing and I'm trying to download and install it.. 
[10:03] <LaserJock> hmm, it is kinda messy looking
[10:03] <sorush20> I don't know what do here. the installation section is not really that helpful
[10:04] <LaserJock> do you have to have qtiplot?
[10:05] <sorush20> is there anything else that is similar.. I just want a really editable graph plotter.. 
[10:05] <LaserJock> sorush20: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuScientists#head-dd371d9b9785b37df7c9a011fd3e52cc9eba6e64
[10:06] <LaserJock> I'd try maybe labplot and scigraphica if you want an origin clone
[10:06] <LaserJock> gnuplot is a good command line standby
[10:06] <LaserJock> grace seems decent as well
[10:07] <LaserJock> those are all in the Ubuntu repositories
[10:21] <sorush20> LaserJock: thanks that was great.. 
[10:21] <LaserJock> sorush20: no problem
[10:30] <sorush20> linux rocks.. ms excel is gay
[10:31] <LaserJock> heh
[10:31] <LaserJock> I've never been fond of Excel, even in Windows
[11:05] <LaserJock> ogra: are you here? :-)
[11:06] <ogra> yep
[11:06] <ogra> flew over reno some hours ago :)
[11:06] <LaserJock> \o/
[11:07] <ogra> didnt you see me passing at the sky ? 
[11:07] <LaserJock> if I had known I'd have waved
[11:07] <ogra> heh
[11:07] <ogra> its wonderful
[11:07] <ogra>  could stay for a month more  :)
[11:07] <LaserJock> ogra: I was going to ask you about Edubuntu merges for Feisty
[11:07] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ ls merges
[11:07] <ogra> denemo  fuse  nbd      sysklogd  tuxpaint  xaos
[11:07] <ogra> dhcp3   kino  portmap  tuxmath   tuxtype   xscreensaver
[11:07] <ogra> thats what i currently have on my list
[11:08] <LaserJock> I was wondering if I could work on some of them and have you sponsor the uploads
[11:08] <ogra> sure
[11:08] <ogra> but tell me what you picked so we dont do duplicate work
[11:08] <LaserJock> sure
[11:09] <LaserJock> I'm guessing we won't be actually doing the uploads for the edu stuff  until after UDS
[11:10] <ogra> right
[11:10] <ogra> i'll see that i get my specs fleshed out the next days and get all the third arty ltsp code merged 
[11:11] <LaserJock> yeah, I saw there was a whole lot of material from the meeting this morning
[11:12] <ogra> which meeting ?
[11:12] <ogra> edubuntu ?
[11:12] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:12] <ogra> ah
[11:12] <LaserJock> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu
[11:12] <ogra> i'm just starting to catch up on mails
[11:13] <ogra> ergh
[11:13] <ogra> why is *all* ubuntu network auth stuff in that list ??
[11:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, RichEd asked me to put together a list of stuff that looked relevent to edubuntu - i added the 5 ubuntu dir. services items because i saw them meantioned in various edubuntu specs
[11:14] <ogra> i did create the edubuntu-network-auth-{client,server} specs on purpose to avoid that 
[11:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> just before the meeting
[11:16] <Burgwork> ogra: did you create those specs before the -directory team existed>
[11:18] <ogra> Burgwork, i think so, yes
[11:18] <ogra> does that matter
[11:18] <Burgwork> not really
[11:19] <ogra> they are totally different ... the edubuntu specs are specific to a setup while the ubuntu specs will cover only functionallity
[11:19] <Burgwork> confused. I dont understand what you mean
[11:20] <ogra> Burgwork, the edubuntu specs are all about reconfigured services
[11:20] <ogra> while the ubuntu specs are abut having the services integrated at all
[11:20] <ogra> *preconfigured
[11:21] <Burgwork> ah, right
[11:22] <Burgwork> I think there is a place for a common spec, however
[11:22] <ogra> we will only take existing packges and make override configs or something in /etc/edubuntu-directory-server if the server side in ubuntu isnt done in feisty 
[11:23] <ogra> like we do with ltsp for the dhcd or syslog configs ...
[11:23] <ogra> *dhcpd
[11:23] <ogra> so we wont tweak the packages but allow overriding their configs if e-d-s is installed ...
[11:24] <ogra> and i was planning to look inot the smbldap configs 
[11:24] <ogra> if ubuntu doesnt attack the server side yet
[11:24] <ogra> you will be able to get a huge amount of feedback from the edubuntu users 
[11:25] <Burgwork> yep
[11:25] <Burgwork> just want to make certain this is not "right hand, meet left hand" :)
[11:26] <ogra> nah, we'll meet anyway
[11:26] <ogra> and i'll try to attend as much of the network auth specs as i can beside the ltsp work
[11:27] <ogra> network auth is needed by *many* of the new ltsp features 
[11:27] <ogra> i cant implement them without soemthing in place
[11:27] <Burgwork> indeed
[11:27] <Burgwork> I am about to try and get Userful to support LTSP alongside our other stuff
[11:27] <ogra> i.e. ful diskless workstations (fat clients) 
[11:28] <ogra> and local apps
[11:28] <ogra> the latter is the only way to handle multimedia correctly ...
[11:42] <pips1> :)
[11:44] <pips1> ogra: RichEd said he will work on refining that wiki page.. at the moment, it is just a rough cut-and-paste job from user requests that came in through mailing list...
[11:44] <ogra> yep i see that
[11:45] <ogra> we cant do anything about stuff thats not specced 
[11:45] <pips1> I can imagine, I need to get some sleep now myself.. I'm looking forward to see you in MTV soon
[11:45] <ogra> as i say sinc weeks :) we need at least the specs registered in LP
[11:46] <pips1> hmm. I have been thinking about spec that are still missing... 
[11:46] <ogra> there are many things on that wikipage that are intresting, but nobody ever wrote a spec for them
[11:46] <ogra> i have only doen the obvious ones that i know of ... 
[11:47] <pips1> there are some specs that edubuntu community members (laserjock, highvoltage, ...) wrote, but they haven't appeared on the MTV spec listing yet..
[11:47] <ogra> all the answers on RichEd's ML call would have needed speccing ... bu i told you guys that things without spec will drop on the floor 
[11:47] <pips1> :-/
[11:48] <ogra> https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+specs has many of them 
[11:48] <pips1> maybe we can create some rough specs that will cater for the remaining stuff...
[11:48] <ogra> ltsp-fat-clients, edubuntu-menus-completion etc
[11:49] <ogra> i'm not sure thats possible this late ... but we'll see having at least a non fleshed out version in LP for each of them would be a start
[11:50] <pips1> well, all the specs under point (1) on RichEd's wiki page are specs that appear on the MTV spec listing... but there are some more specs done, that don't even appear yet on the MTV listing... who determines what get's onto the MTV listing?
[11:50] <ogra> all the answers to his ML call arent specced
[11:51] <pips1> afaik, RichEd will work on that tomorrow
[11:51] <ogra> the ones that are in yet are either old ones, or ones that i created without any content yet or they are successive specs fro something we started in edgy i.e. LaserJocks menu stuff
[11:52] <ogra> dont forget we'll only have five days
[11:52] <pips1> I have come up with some vague "catch-all" spec titles, e.g. 
[11:52] <pips1> #
[11:52] <pips1> Edubuntu-Desktop-Applications
[11:52] <pips1> #
[11:52] <pips1> Edubuntu-Web-Applications
[11:52] <pips1> #
[11:52] <ogra> each spec will have at least three BOF sessions
[11:52] <pips1> Ubuntu-Education-Content
[11:52] <ogra> of 1h each
[11:52] <pips1> wow
[11:53] <ogra> after that the drafting and reviewing must be done as well
[11:53] <pips1> I didn't know there were three sessions per spec
[11:53] <ogra> so more than 10 specs isnt realistic for us (edubuntu) ...
[11:53] <pips1> what is the current count?
[11:53] <ogra> well, there arent strictly three sessions per spec
[11:54] <ogra> but thast a comon number guessed from experience from the last conferences
[11:54] <ogra> *common
[11:54] <pips1> ogra: how many spec have already been submitted in LP for Edubuntu?
[11:54] <pips1> *specs
[11:54] <ogra> all you see on the link i gave above
[11:55] <ogra> i should be subscribed to all of them https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs
[11:55] <pips1> you are talking about the (uds-mtv/+specs page
[11:55] <pips1> right
[11:55] <ogra> yeah
[11:57] <ogra> for me there are two *majorly important*  things we'll need in feisty ... one is network auth (server *and* client side) and the other is the ltsp gui tool (even mdz will disagree here and mark it a low prio again) since thats an upstream requirement we defined at the ltsp hackfest
[11:57] <pips1> well, I had a look at the "personal spec listings", by some of our "usual suspects" (you, rodarvus, sbalneav, highvoltage, laserjock, cbx33), but I'm confused about how relevant those are...
[11:58] <ogra> relevance is only provided by the uds-mtv page
[11:58] <ogra> only specs listed there are accepted
[11:58] <pips1> right
[11:59] <pips1> so is it mainly mdz and sabdfl deciding?
[11:59] <ogra> (and i'm not sure the ones with "Undefined" count at all)
[11:59] <pips1> ic
[11:59] <ogra> thats how it was before ... dunno if they will follow that practice this time
[12:01] <pips1> during our meeting, RichEd went through all the user submitted requirements and asked the meeting participants for input.. I'm sure he will compile a list of spec to fill gaps.
[12:02] <pips1> ... we will see how it goes.
[12:04] <LaserJock> we have way to many specs for one UDS
[12:04] <pips1> heh
[12:07] <ogra> LaserJock, totally
[12:07] <pips1> I see the following topics that would benefit from discussion:
[12:07] <pips1> * Bundling-Edubuntu
[12:07] <pips1>   * Edubuntu "bundle" for Seconday Schools
[12:07] <pips1>   * Edubuntu "bundle" for Universities
[12:07] <pips1> * Edubuntu-Product-and-Add-On
[12:07] <pips1> * Ubuntu-Education-Network-Integration
[12:07] <pips1> * Edubuntu-Desktop-Applications
[12:07] <pips1> * Edubuntu-Web-Applications
[12:07] <pips1> * Ubuntu-Education-Content
[12:07] <ogra> that can bite us very bad .... we'll need proper priorization
[12:08] <LaserJock> ogra: it might be nice to have our own set of specs
[12:08] <ogra> dont we have that ?
[12:08] <ogra> we did in edgy ...
[12:08] <pips1> nope, not in launchpad
[12:08] <pips1> afaik
[12:08] <LaserJock> well, I was thinking a wiki page
[12:09] <LaserJock> I mean, we need to have a list of ideas
[12:09] <pips1> LaserJock: the wiki page that was discussed today will be reduced again to a concise list
[12:09] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:09] <LaserJock> I guess that's what I'm thinking of
[12:09] <ogra> pips1, my personal subscription list had *all* edubuntu specs 
[12:10] <pips1> RichEd said he will do it...
[12:10] <ogra> thats how i handled it in breezy, dapper and edgy 
[12:10] <pips1> ogra: ic
[12:10] <ogra> if you dont thing that suffices, set up something else
[12:10] <ogra> we had a wikipage like the ne you guys made for edgy as well ... 
[12:10] <ogra> so thats the right wasy
[12:10] <ogra> *way
[12:11] <LaserJock> ogra: that's great for official specs and UDS
[12:11] <pips1> but now there are more developers... I'm thinking rodarvus, sbalneav, laser, cbx33..
[12:11] <ogra> but we need to thin out the list
[12:11] <ogra> its way to much
[12:11] <ogra> pips1, rodarvus is 100% busy with his other stuff
[12:11] <LaserJock> we need UDS specs and we need just general specs
[12:12] <ogra> cbx33 starts new projects over and over atm 
[12:12] <pips1> heh
[12:12] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:12] <ogra> i dotn see him finishing the SCP spec
[12:12] <LaserJock> well, that's the thing
[12:12] <ogra> laser will only have limited time i guess ... and sbalneav must care for ltsp upstream 
[12:13] <ogra> so there is not really *much more* yet
[12:13] <pips1> right..
[12:13] <LaserJock> it's one thing for somebody to write a spec, it's entirely different to get somebody to implement it
[12:13] <pips1> yeah
[12:13] <ogra> i'm hpoing to get dtrask, eharrison and moquist abouard during the conf ...
[12:13] <ogra> exactly
[12:13] <ogra> but you need people familiar with the topic to discuss them
[12:13] <pips1> ^^ ^ ltsp devs?
[12:14] <ogra> smbldap upstream and k12 devs
[12:14] <pips1> ah
[12:14] <LaserJock> but on the other hand, it is useful to have a list of idea/specs for community people to look at, work on, etc.
[12:16] <pips1> LaserJock: I think I understand what you are trying to get to. sort of (A) "big tasks" listing for UDS and the "core devs"  and (B) "small concrete tasks" for community devs and contributors
[12:16] <LaserJock> more or less
[12:16] <sorush20> I@am unable to killall scigraphica
[12:16] <LaserJock> if we fill LP and the UDS spec lists with *everything* it's a mess
[12:17] <pips1> hmm, yes
[12:17] <LaserJock> some things don't really need a UDS discussion