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[12:26] <imbrandon> heya toma
[12:27] <toma> hey imbrandon
[12:27] <imbrandon> toma, looks like me and you are roomies at MTV heh
[12:27] <fdoving> imbrandon: could you do a upload for me please? 
[12:27] <imbrandon> fdoving, to where ?
[12:27] <fdoving> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kopete/+bug/69583
[12:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69583 in kopete "SRU: kopete can't connect to ICQ. " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:27] <fdoving> -proposed
[12:27] <toma> imbrandon: 
[12:27] <toma> ?
[12:27] <imbrandon> fdoving, sure
[12:28] <imbrandon> toma, my mistake, i read it wrong, your not
[12:28] <imbrandon> fdoving, give me a few minutes to finish up what i got going then i will
[12:28] <toma> imbrandon: grrr. i was happy for a sec ;-)
[12:29] <imbrandon> heh hold on lemme look again whom it is
[12:29] <imbrandon> john trapsell iirc 
[12:29] <toma> ok
[12:29] <toma> nite
[12:29] <fdoving> imbrandon: please use the diff/dsc at http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kopete-fix/kopete-edgy/ - added one more bug to the list (basically closing the SRU bug too).
[12:30] <fdoving> don't want to spam launchpad with another debdiff for such a small change.
[12:30] <fdoving> nite toma.
[12:32] <imbrandon> fdoving, hrm i'm inclined to use the patch from the bug report as thats what mdz OK's
[12:32] <imbrandon> is that a problem ?
[12:32] <fdoving> well.. the changelog must be changed.
[12:32] <fdoving> as he says in the same comment.
[12:32] <fdoving> and that's what i've done.
[12:32] <imbrandon> ok but still a one liner fix ?
[12:32] <fdoving> yes.
[12:33] <imbrandon> ok
[12:33] <imbrandon> i'll grab it now
[12:33] <fdoving> you can use the debdiff i attached last.
[12:33] <fdoving> if you want to.
[12:33] <fdoving> there must be a new upload to -updates anyway.
[12:33] <fdoving> I can have the SRU bug listed then.
[12:34] <imbrandon> ok so http://librarian.launchpad.net/4942274/kopete_fix_kopete0.12.3-0ubuntu1_kopete0.12.3-0ubuntu2_NEW.debdiff
[12:34] <imbrandon> thats ok ^^
[12:34] <fdoving> yes.
[12:35] <imbrandon> ok i set the target to proposed
[12:35] <imbrandon> and i'll upload in a sec
[12:35] <fdoving> thanks :)
[12:37] <imbrandon> crimsun, i just set the distro to edgy-proposed and it will do the right thing correct ?
[12:38] <imbrandon> Riddell, fdoving, toma, Sime, Lure https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-koffice-by-default regestered, input welcome
[12:42] <fdoving> is koffice 1.6 mature enought? 
[12:43] <imbrandon> yes imho, and many others it seems, koffice is one of the first things i install to replce oo.o 
[12:43] <imbrandon> on new installations
[12:43] <imbrandon> since dapper flight 1
[12:44] <fdoving> does it play nice with microsoft products? 
[12:44] <fdoving> .. and formats.
[12:45] <jjesse> that's what i'm intersted in?
[12:45] <imbrandon> yea , i have no problems with .doc's and xls spreadsheets
[12:45] <imbrandon> not tried much else but it seems to hadle them as good as oo.o if not better
[12:45] <fdoving> are there powerpc packages of 1.6 somewhere? 
[12:46] <imbrandon> no i havent finished compiling the ppc ones yet
[12:46] <imbrandon> ( but the source is on kubuntu.org if you have the time )
[12:46] <fdoving> you have a build running? 
[12:46] <fdoving> I can leave it building during the night. 
[12:46] <imbrandon> i did last night but my 800mhz choked on it and i havent started it back up
[12:46] <fdoving> I'll have to go to bed soon anyway.
[12:47] <imbrandon> fdoving, that would rock if you could get the dsc from kubuntu.org and pbuild it ( riddell would likely upload it too )
[12:47] <imbrandon> i just havent yet
[12:48] <imbrandon> but mostly its about replacing oo.o with koffice , i said 1.6 becouse thats what will be in feisty
[12:50] <fdoving> this discussion was up before breezy, and before dapper, the conclusion back then was that oo.o was the more mature of the two, and that everyone else used it.
[12:50] <fdoving> how is koffice <-> oo.o working? 
[12:51] <imbrandon> well koffice has matured alot , and for the disk and memory requirements it fits the bill, with kubuntu being one of the bigest KDE distros it will also help with the stability of it
[12:53] <imbrandon> fdoving, ...
[12:53] <imbrandon> Accepted:
[12:53] <imbrandon>  OK: kopete_3.5.5+kopete0.12.3-0ubuntu2.dsc
[12:53] <imbrandon>      -> Component: main Section: kde
[12:53] <imbrandon>  OK: kopete_3.5.5+kopete0.12.3.orig.tar.gz
[12:53] <imbrandon>  OK: kopete_3.5.5+kopete0.12.3-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
[12:53] <imbrandon> This upload awaits approval by a distro manager
[12:54] <fdoving> nice, thanks :)
[12:54] <imbrandon> ^^ done just needs tfheen or someone to poke it through
[12:54] <fdoving> needs testing and everything.
[12:54] <fdoving> should stay in -proposed for ~7 days if the SRU guidelines is followed.
[12:54] <imbrandon> yes
[12:55] <imbrandon> but its not in the archive yet, a distro manager needs to poke it in 
[12:55] <fdoving> ah. understand.
[12:55] <imbrandon> as the last line of that says
[12:55] <fdoving> just read it. :] 
[12:55] <fdoving> tfheen is probably sleeping.
[12:56] <fdoving> i'll ping him tomorrow.
[01:00] <imbrandon> silly silly mez
[01:07] <fdoving> imbrandon: hey.. there are ppc debs :)
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[01:13] <fdoving> good nite.
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[01:44] <jdong> yay, new fglrx with substantially less AVIVO tearage
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[01:51] <jjesse> hiya Hobbsee
[01:52] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee! morning! (or noon...) :)
[01:52] <Hobbsee> hey jjesse, Jucato 
[01:52] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: @ the kopete SRU, is it actually broken for you?
[01:53] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yes , why ?
[01:54] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: because i can sign into icq fine here
[01:54] <imbrandon> hrm , many many cant
[01:54] <Hobbsee> yes, which was why i left it late last night
[01:54] <Hobbsee> it's a different fix to usual, hmmm
[01:55] <imbrandon> yea its a diffrent problem
[01:55] <jjesse> people are having problems w/ kopete?
[01:55] <imbrandon> anyhow its already approved by mdz and uploaded :)
[01:55] <imbrandon> bbiab
[01:55] <imbrandon> dinner
[01:58] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: so i see.  clearly i shouldnt sleep
[01:58] <imbrandon> huh ?
[01:59] <imbrandon> heh
=== imbrandon missed something
[01:59] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i got that in my email late last night, then when i sign onto irc the next day, it's fixed
[01:59] <imbrandon> heh ok, i still dont see the issue 
=== Hobbsee just wasnt expecting it to go thru that quickly, was all
[02:00] <imbrandon> ahh
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[02:06] <nixternal> man..this doc build is really irritating me tonight
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[02:07] <Jucato> um... which font or package installed with kubuntu-desktop gives support for Japanese text? (I can't see them in Konvi...)
[02:08] <nixternal> damn..i know this answer
[02:09] <Jucato> oh please do tell :)
[02:10] <nixternal> i can't
[02:10] <Jucato> aw... :(
[02:10] <nixternal> because i can't remember right now
[02:10] <Jucato> ok. thanks for trying :)
[02:10] <nixternal> and i was just looking at the doc makefile for the answer, and it wasn't in there
[02:14] <nixternal> wow, i just realised there are no Japanese translations for Edgy
[02:15] <nixternal> i take that back
[02:15] <nixternal> found them ;)
[02:15] <Jucato> yay! where?
[02:16] <nixternal> i dont have anything with the font hgouh
[02:16] <Jucato> aaah ok. I thought it was for my font question :)
[02:17] <nixternal> ttf-kochi* and ttf-mikachan
[02:17] <nixternal> those are the 3 fonts i seen with 'apt-cache search japanese'
[02:17] <Jucato> which gives tons of results. heheh thanks I'll try them out :)
[02:17] <nixternal> ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10 - Kochi Subst Gothic Japanese TrueType font with naga10 (non-free)
[02:17] <nixternal> ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10 - Kochi Subst Mincho Japanese TrueType font with naga10 (non-free)
[02:17] <nixternal> ttf-mikachan - handwritten Japanese Truetype font
[02:17] <nixternal> holy jesus there are a lot
[02:17] <nixternal> just not those 3
[02:18] <nixternal> #ubuntu-ja maybe?
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[02:18] <nixternal> arg
[02:19] <nixternal> you left b4 i realised it and posted "holy jesus there are a lot"
[02:19] <nixternal> and then
[02:19] <nixternal> #ubuntu-ja maybe?
[02:19] <Jucato> jp. I'll try. but it's mostly because I used to see Japanese text in Konversation, and now I can't. oh well. nothing critical really. thanks! :)
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[02:27] <Hobbsee> hey jsgotangco 
[02:27] <Jucato> morning jsgotangco! :)
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[02:28] <Jucato> hehe
[02:28] <Jucato> sun's shining brightly over here :)
[02:29] <jsgotangco> i have nothing to do till sunday i have to think of something
[02:33] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: implement a spec
[02:41] <jsgotangco> yeah we were thinking of doing something on the bluetooth side
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[05:02] <crimsun> imbrandon: for what source package?
[05:03] <imbrandon> ?
[05:15] <crimsun> 18:37 #kubuntu-devel: < imbrandon> crimsun, i just set the distro to edgy-proposed and it will do the right thing correct ?
[05:25] <imbrandon> for the kopete upload mdz approved earlier today, i got it done though
[05:25] <crimsun> k
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[06:43] <nixternal> imbrandon: you around at all?
[06:45] <nixternal> or anyone that can tell me why when i create the debian/patches directory and add patches (i.e., 01_kubuntu_releasenoste.diff, 02_kubuntu_desktopguide.diff), that they don't get used when I build the package..it does say it was successful applying the patch, but after building and isntalling, the changes aren't displayed?
[06:53] <crimsun> what patch system are you using and build-depending on?
[06:56] <nixternal> i was just utilizing the diffs..but i have tried dpatch as well
[06:56] <crimsun> please clarify. What are you _currently_ doing?
[06:57] <nixternal> patching Kubuntu Docs
[06:57] <nixternal> well trying to at least
[06:57] <crimsun> with the patches
[06:57] <crimsun> are you using dpatch and/or cdbs?
[06:57] <nixternal> no
[06:57] <crimsun> so you're manually applying them in debian/rules ?
[06:58] <crimsun> please post your source package; it'll help
[06:58] <nixternal> well...before i go there (i just wiped that ;)), if I do dpatch, do i add that to control and rules file?
[06:58] <crimsun> yes
[06:59] <nixternal> ok, control i understand how to add it, just simply put 'dpatch' in the dep section w/ everything else
[06:59] <nixternal> now how do i go about adding that to the rules section?
[06:59] <crimsun> Build-Depends, you mean.
[06:59] <nixternal> yes
[06:59] <Lathiat> nixternal: Build-Depend
[06:59] <Lathiat> :P
[06:59] <crimsun> nixternal: dpatch(1) explains what you need to add to debian/rules
[07:00] <nixternal> thank you!
[07:00] <crimsun> See the "After dpatchifying" in the DPATCH IN DEBIAN PACKAGES section
[07:01] <nixternal> config.status
[07:01] <nixternal> got it
[07:01] <nixternal> now, before i go on, this is the recommended and proper way?
[07:01] <crimsun> it's not always config.status
[07:01] <crimsun> you need to tailor it to your specific debian/rules
[07:01] <nixternal> no, that is just the section under dpatchifying
[07:03] <crimsun> (right)
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[12:09] <Mez> Riddell: why is libstdc++5 included as part of kubuntu-desktop ?
[12:10] <Riddell> desktop: * libstdc++5 [i386]     # doko: requested from some closed source applications
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[12:12] <Mez> Riddell: hmm
[12:16] <gnomefreak> imbrandon: when your around let me know. i dont think frostwire is gonna build properly, and it cant be added to the repos at all its missing debian/rules file. 
[12:17] <Hobbsee> morning Riddell, hey Mez 
[12:18] <Riddell> hola Hobbsee 
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[12:19] <seaLne> http://behindubuntu.org/interviews/RaphaelPinson/
[12:19] <Riddell> oooh
[12:21] <seaLne> raphink wins the prize for most smilies in an interview :)
[12:21] <raphink> hahaha 
[12:21] <raphink> :)
[12:21] <raphink> I put smilies everywhere :)
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[12:35] <Tm_T> Hmmh, I'm slowly getting irritated with konqueror & toolbars, they doesn't stay in their places.
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[12:47] <Hobbsee> hello again
[12:47] <Tm_T> Hello Hobbsee 
[12:47] <Hobbsee> prism2-user: warning.  if you pull what you did in #ubuntu-devel, i'll kickban you from here too.  be warned.
[12:48] <prism2-user> what are you talking about?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> prism2-user: you're aualin.  you cant hide.
[12:48] <prism2-user> thats my little brother
[12:49] <prism2-user> what have he done now?
[12:50] <Hobbsee> prism2-user: so this "little brother" takes your computer every few days, and issues the same flames, does he?
[12:50] <prism2-user> can happen
[12:50] <prism2-user> oh
[12:50] <prism2-user> and we share this computer
[12:50] <prism2-user> (it's better than his own :p)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> so, how's beryl doing these days?  or is that your brother's domain too?
[12:51] <prism2-user> no
[12:51] <prism2-user> both using
[12:51] <prism2-user> havent been able to use it
[12:51] <Hobbsee> who's developing it?
[12:51] <prism2-user> quinn_storm, onestone
[12:51] <prism2-user> iXce
[12:51] <gnomefreak> is it possible to make a .deb package ximular to making a tar by tar cvzf file.tar.gz file?
[12:51] <Hobbsee> prism2-user: who's developing it out of you or your brother?
[12:51] <prism2-user> hard to remember
[12:52] <prism2-user> ???
[12:52] <Hobbsee> prism2-user: was it you in #beryl-dev, or your brother?
[12:52] <prism2-user> me
[12:52] <prism2-user> but ha has been in #beryl-dev to
[12:52] <prism2-user> he
[12:52] <Hobbsee> so you typed all the stuff in there, then?
[12:52] <prism2-user> nope
[12:53] <prism2-user> but i havent been there before
[12:53] <Hobbsee> how'd you get your anonymous proxy?  why are you using one?
[12:53] <prism2-user> (new to irc)
[12:53] <prism2-user> dynamic
[12:53] <prism2-user> ip
[12:53] <Hobbsee> that's different.
[12:53] <Riddell> gnomefreak: not sure what you're trying to do.  .debs are ar files containing tar files as I recall
[12:53] <prism2-user> i am using one
[12:53] <Hobbsee> you're using a proxy now, not a dynamic IP.  we can tell by hostnames.
[12:53] <prism2-user> no
[12:53] <prism2-user> i am not using a proxy
[12:54] <prism2-user> i dont really understand the need of a proxy...
[12:54] <prism2-user> then my littlebrother was using a proxy
[12:54] <prism2-user> wait, im going to ask him
[12:54] <gnomefreak> Riddell: i have a .deb that im changing and i need to put it back together with the changes i cant build it the right way.
[12:54] <Hobbsee> prism2-user: yet you do, and you are, because your IP no longer contains your ISP
[12:55] <prism2-user> huh?
[12:55] <prism2-user> not?
[12:55] <gnomefreak> also cant build it from tar as there is not debian/rules nor a configure file
[12:55] <Hobbsee> prism2-user: and you're fully aware that if you dont control your "little brother"'s actions, if he gets banned, you on the same client will also.
[12:56] <prism2-user> blame the tv
[12:56] <prism2-user> but thats bad...
[12:56] <prism2-user> but i cant control him all the time
[12:56] <prism2-user> still he is only 13
[12:57] <prism2-user> wait
[12:57] <prism2-user> he is on his way to turn off the router
[12:57] <Hobbsee> prism2-user: what made you join here anyway?  what's your purpose in here?
=== Riddell was about to ask
[12:58] <Hobbsee> Riddell: see #ubuntu-devel a bit ago.
[12:58] <gnomefreak> same usr?
[12:58] <Riddell> gnomefreak: as I say I seem to remember it being an ar containing a tar
[12:58] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: as aualin
[12:59] <Hobbsee> s/gnomefreak/ Riddell 
[12:59] <fdoving> hi.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> hey fdoving :)
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[01:00] <fdoving> hi hobbsee.
[01:00] <prism-user> i am very sorry for my little brother...
[01:01] <prism-user> he actually turned off the router...
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[01:01] <Hobbsee> prism-user: yet two people are using the same proxy?  dream on.
[01:01] <Hobbsee> and he clearly didnt turn it off, else you wouldnt be connected.
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[01:01] <prism-user> I AM NOT USING A PROIXY!
[01:01] <prism-user> i turned it in dunno
[01:01] <prism-user> on
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[01:02] <Hobbsee> gah.
[01:02] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i've finished playing cat
[01:02] <ajmitch> yay
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[01:03] <Hobbsee> that story has more holes in it than swiss cheese
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[01:03] <Hobbsee> Mez: i'll do it :)
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[01:03] <Hobbsee> there we go :)
[01:04] <Hobbsee> Mez: give them a while to get thru THAT!
[01:04] <Hobbsee> and now i'm getting flamed in #ubuntu
[01:06] <Hobbsee> and now he's quit :)
[01:12] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: oh drat.  it appears he wasnt using a proxy.  but he did change the hostname
[01:12] <gnomefreak> hes back?
[01:12] <Hobbsee> mp
[01:12] <Hobbsee> no
[01:12] <gnomefreak> oh ok good
[01:13] <Hobbsee> [23:12]  [314]  aualin n=mikael 89.233.211.46 * Mikael Lindberg
[01:13] <Hobbsee> [23:12]  [Whois]  aualin is online via irc.freenode.net (Wed Nov  1 12:38:10 2006).
[01:13] <Hobbsee> [23:12]  [314]  aualin n=mikael h-89-233-211-46.wholesale.port80.se * Mikael Lindberg
[01:13] <Hobbsee> why would you connect via port 80, anyway, i wonder
[01:13] <Mez> * aualin :No such nick/channel
[01:15] <gnomefreak> looks like he loged off
[01:15] <gnomefreak> of all names
[01:15] <Hobbsee> indeed
[01:15] <Hobbsee> i dont know of a way to search for all users by an IP
[01:15] <Hobbsee> although there probably is one
[01:15] <Lathiat> you cant as a normal user
[01:16] <Lathiat> on most networks anyway
[01:16] <gnomefreak> staff can iirc
[01:16] <Lathiat> yeh opers can
[01:16] <Hobbsee> right
[01:20] <Mez> whats a good feedreader? (I dont like akregtor)
[01:20] <Riddell> google
[01:21] <Mez> been googling, I'm looking for reccomendations from others ;
[01:21] <fdoving> Riddell: hi, could you update kopete at http://kubuntu.org/packages/kde-355/pool-dapper/kopete/ with the fix from http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kopete-fix/kopete-dapper/ ? 
[01:21] <Riddell> fdoving: all tested I presume?
[01:22] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i'm assuming that's the 1 line fix.  i still cant reproduce that bug  though
[01:22] <fdoving> Riddell: the #kopete guys use it and are happy, so yes.
[01:22] <Riddell> fdoving: just dapper?
[01:22] <Hobbsee> Riddell: edgy got a SRU for it  this morning
[01:22] <fdoving> Riddell: the fix is uploaded to -proposed - https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kopete/+bug/69583
[01:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69583 in kopete "SRU: kopete can't connect to ICQ. " [Low,Fix committed]  
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[01:23] <fdoving> I'm applying the patch to kdenetwork in dapper now.
[01:26] <gnomefreak> is edgy gonne be using -proposed repos?
[01:27] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: should do.
[01:27] <Hobbsee> maybe not yet though
[01:27] <gnomefreak> k
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[01:35] <gnomefreak> anyone have a spare debian/rules file that they can pastebin? would like to see if its worth the time to make one.
[01:35] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: be watchful.  he got around the ban.
[01:35] <gnomefreak> where?
[01:35] <Riddell> gnomefreak: huh?  download any source or use dh_make
[01:35] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: u-devel atm
[01:36] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: he's ban evading.  he got around the +d
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[01:36] <gnomefreak> did you use the *?
[01:37] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: yeha.  he connected via gaim.
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[01:58] <fdoving> anyone running dapper with kde 3.5.2 ? 
[01:59] <fdoving> http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kopete-fix/kdenetwork-dapper/kopete_3.5.2-0ubuntu6.3_i386.deb is ready for testing.
[01:59] <fdoving> related to bug 69583
[01:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69583 in kopete "SRU: kopete can't connect to ICQ. " [Low,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69583
[01:59] <Hobbsee> nope
=== Hobbsee doestn even have dapper installed
[02:00] <fdoving> me neither. only cowbuilder chroots.
[02:01] <Riddell> cowbuilder?
[02:02] <fdoving> pbuilder with cow.
[02:02] <fdoving> apt-cache show cowdancer
[02:03] <fdoving> alot faster than pbuilder and it's nicer to the disk.
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[03:05] <jjesse> morning
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[03:47] <Riddell> Lure: what was the package you had an update for?
[03:50] <Lure> Riddell: kdebase (ksmserver)
[03:51] <nixternal> jjesse: irc at the client i take it?
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[03:51] <hunger> Will you keep the qt-kdecopy debs up to date on kubuntu/edgy?
[03:52] <Riddell> Lure: got the bug number again?
[03:53] <Lure> Riddell: bug 67889
[03:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67889 in kdebase "(edgy) KDE crashes when logout is canceled" [Medium,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67889
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[03:56] <bddebian> Howdy
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[03:58] <Jucato> hi bddebian!
[03:58] <Jucato> hi el!
[03:58] <bddebian> Heya Jucato
[03:58] <el> hi Jucato :)
[03:58] <el> ah - i just remember that you wanted to ask a question, but i didn't look for it any more, Jucato 
[03:59] <Jucato> el: I typed a long one :)
=== Jucato checks the logs if it's still there...
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[03:59] <Jucato> el: the Panel settings were removed form System Settings, right? well, there are times when Kicker borks and hides itself completely, even though it's running. restarting Kicker doesn't reset it to it's normal position. But since the Panel settings in System Settings are gone, there's no way to bring them back except through kcontrol
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[04:00] <el> Jucato, is that hiding a bug or a feature?
[04:01] <Jucato> well, it's a bug most of the time
[04:01] <el> Jucato, and going to kcontrol and pressing apply a second time brings the panel back?
[04:02] <Jucato> well, basically you have to check in KControl where the panel hid and relocated itself, then set it to the right position or make it visible again
[04:02] <nixternal> Riddell: im working on the Kubuntu docs again here, trying to learn the packaging stuff as well as the patching systems a little bit better...is there a patching system your prefer over the other?
[04:03] <el> Jucato, sigh... hm, that's a dirty work around
[04:03] <Riddell> nixternal: cdbs simple-patch usually works best for me
[04:04] <el> Jucato, does it reappear after a new login or does it really change the configuration?
[04:04] <nixternal> what about in the case of a couple files that have already been fixed in the doc repos, is it still possible to use cdbs in this situation?
[04:04] <Jucato> el: for example, the panel is at the bottom and I set it to autohide, and raise itself when the mouse goes to the bottom edge of the screen. sometimes, kicker suddenly relocates itself somewhere else (like at the top), so that you couldn't raise it anymore. I think it changes the configuration because restarting kicker doesn't work but deleting the config files in~/.kde/share does
[04:04] <Jucato> whew! that's a long one...
[04:06] <nixternal> booyah..nm Riddell, it seems if you use Google and ask the question first, it just might have the answer ;)
[04:06] <el> Jucato, whew, hm, that's a use case i haven't thought of before. 
[04:07] <el> Jucato, does it happen to you or did you hear it in a forum? 
[04:07] <Jucato> I completely forgot about it too
[04:07] <Jucato> it happened to me and some people as well.
[04:07] <Jucato> I guess I took it for granted since I knew how to launch kcontrol anyway
[04:08] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Like searching fro ubuntu took you to Riddel's blog?
[04:08] <nixternal> shush ;)
[04:08] <Jucato> el: sorry I'm bothering you with these just now. Didn't really get a chance to fully test Edgy stuff before the release. :(
[04:09] <Jucato> there's also one more system settings "bug" that someone else found out, that I didn't see before
[04:09] <el> Jucato, what's that bug?
[04:10] <Jucato> el: kdmtheme (KDM Theme Manager) doesm
[04:10] <Jucato> rawr..
[04:10] <Jucato> el: kdmtheme (KDM Theme Manager) doesn't get added to System Settings when installed
[04:10] <Jucato> unlike in Dapper
[04:10] <Jucato> but I'd guess that would be a special case
[04:11] <el> Jucato, you have to extra install it? i thought it wasn't in there by reason
[04:11] <Riddell> it's the kde theme that isn't there for a reason
[04:11] <el> Jucato, it's much easier to set a theme than the single settings, but it also duplicates. so i thought it's been removed for that reason
[04:11] <Riddell> kdm theme module should be
[04:11] <Jucato> no. it's the KDM theme manager, not KDE theme manager...
[04:11] <Riddell> (if a user installs it)
[04:11] <Jucato> gets confusing :)
[04:12] <el> yes, confusing :)
[04:12] <Jucato> el: kdmtheme = GUI module to handle login screen themes. made by smileaf
[04:13] <el> ah, thanks for the clarification :)
[04:16] <Jucato> el: you need some user case examples on the panel problem? I think I found some relevant threads in the forums
[04:17] <el> Jucato, no - just wanted to know if it's a more common problem. but i can imagine that happens easily (it happens often that you cange the panel locatposition by accident)
[04:18] <Jucato> el: ah ok. :)
[04:18] <el> Jucato, as long as there isn't a better way to get the panel back, panel should probably be in systemsettings (sigh). 
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[04:18] <Jucato> el: unfortunately, I don't know of any other better way... the most drastic is deleting kickerrc... :(
[04:19] <el> eeek. 
[04:19] <el> no, i rather think it's the panel's job
[04:20] <Jucato> yeah
[04:20] <Jucato> so now 2 things returning to system settings: Launch Feedback and Panel....
[04:21] <el> Jucato, jupp. but launch feedback under notifications
[04:22] <DaSkreech> I had to install the KDM theme manager by myself
[04:22] <Jucato> yep. it's much better there. I guess they put it under Panel settings before, because there was no general Notifications group (except in Sounds & Multimedia..)
[04:23] <Jucato> (then there's that other panel bug unrelated to systemsettings I need to confirm and report...)
[04:25] <el> fine :)
[04:25] <Jucato> um.. I think I've asked this before, but either I forgot it or totally didn't understand it: how do I know if a bug report should be filed in LP or in KDE?
=== el has to get some things done now (before heading off to the next task observation.. )
[04:26] <Jucato> el: sorry for taking up much of your time again. and thanks a lot! :)
[04:26] <el> Jucato, that's what i'm here for! if i don't have any time at all, i tell you ;-)
[04:28] <Jucato> again, thank you! :)
=== Jucato goes bug hunting...
[04:30] <el> hehe, have fun!
[04:31] <Jucato> hehe! I have a love-hate relationship with bug reports :)
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[04:47] <Riddell> fdoving: that's the new kopete on kubuntu.org
[04:50] <DaSkreech> kopete gets it's own time?
[04:51] <Jucato> DaSkreech: heard that kopete's gonna separate from the main. not sure if it will be independent, extragears, or merge with kdepim though...
[04:51] <DaSkreech> Kind of like amarok
[04:52] <Jucato> and konversation
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[04:59] <jjesse> hello
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[05:00] <nixternal> man...i thought i was going crazy with vim
[05:01] <nixternal> there is like no syntax highlighting, and im like wtf..nice to know it was vim.tiny ;)
[05:01] <jjesse> use kate for everything :)
[05:01] <Jucato> heheh
[05:02] <nixternal> well, i do if im editing big time files usually..as it is just quicker for me..but if im doing packaging and what not, and need to make little hacks here or there, then vim works great
=== Jucato hugs and kisses kate... good thing it sounds/looks like a girl's name
[05:02] <jjesse> my wife is named :)
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[05:02] <jjesse> be careful Jucato
[05:02] <Jucato> oops :)
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[05:05] <nixternal> hahaha
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[05:07] <DaSkreech> Hi jjesse
[05:07] <jjesse> hello DaSkreech
[05:08] <DaSkreech> jjesse: nice job on the Ubuntu chapter
[05:08] <jjesse> thanks
[05:09] <DaSkreech> jjesse: How does the book work?
[05:09] <DaSkreech>  updates after two years?
[05:10] <jjesse> DaSkreech: for edgy we just updated and will be on the website
[05:10] <jjesse> and then for fiesty i think will actually be a book update
[05:11] <DaSkreech> jjesse: Nice. I had a list of stuff about the book and the Kubuntu chapter in particular that I'll try and make sensible and forward to... someone I guess
[05:12] <jjesse> DaSkreech: if you want email it to me, jjesse@iserv.net if something needs to be chnaged i'll get it to you
[05:12] <DaSkreech> Ok
[05:12] <DaSkreech> Thanks
[05:13] <DaSkreech> mornfall has paused adept production correct?
[05:13] <jjesse> i haven't heard
[05:13] <jjesse> i know the doc for adep sucks
[05:13] <Jucato> what doc? :P
[05:13] <jjesse> so i need to get it done and updated into kde svn
[05:13] <jjesse> Jucato: exactly
[05:14] <DaSkreech> Well when there are no changes that's a pretty good time to jump on that
[05:14] <jjesse> agreed
=== Jucato wonders if "no changes" is good or bad...
[05:15] <DaSkreech> For documentation?
[05:15] <DaSkreech> Great :)
[05:15] <Jucato> hehe
[05:15] <jjesse> good for documentation at least
[05:15] <Jucato> I won't argue with that :)
[05:16] <Jucato> but trying to edit the Nvidia wiki to include Adept-specific steps makes me realize that it's not easy to document it at all...
[05:17] <DaSkreech> nvidia?
[05:18] <Jucato> yeah, the wiki for installing the nvidia drivers
[05:18] <Jucato> specifically about the portion making sure restricted is enabled. good thing that Edgy now enables main and restricted by default now, whether or not you had an internet connection while installing
[05:19] <Jucato> (at least using the Alternate Install)
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[05:22] <Riddell> allee: ever used kspread to make a pie chart?
[05:38] <allee> Riddell: no,  but I manage my hardware at work with it.   As I said question is what the huge majority does with it.
[05:38] <allee> Riddell: but kspread 1.5.0  was a nitemare even for this :(
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[05:54] <DaSkreech> Does guidance have support for UPS?
[05:54] <Riddell> DaSkreech: unlikely
[05:54] <Riddell> since none of us have UPS to test it on
[05:54] <DaSkreech> unlikely now or unlikely ever?
[05:55] <DaSkreech> Hmm Ok
[05:55] <DaSkreech>  hi hunger
[05:58] <allee> DaSkreech: I'll test/evaluate UPS KDE Software soon.
=== allee SIGLUNCH
=== DaSkreech cracks up
[06:00] <jjesse> mmm
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[06:24] <hunger> DaSkreech: hello.
[06:28] <DaSkreech> nice to see you here :)
[06:30] <hunger> DaSkreech: huch... how do I get that honor all of a sudden?
[06:34] <DaSkreech> Don't know I got the Decibel  mailing list today and it said hi on IRC I'm hunger
[06:34] <DaSkreech> Then I alt tabbed and saw you :)
[06:34] <DaSkreech> Which saves me from joining YAIC
[06:35] <hunger> DaSkreech: I hang out here for ages, getting on everybodies nerves.
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[06:35] <DaSkreech> Yeah I realise. I just never linked you in my head with tobias :)
[06:35] <hunger> DaSkreech: It is nice to become famous though;-)
[06:35] <DaSkreech> Yeah God Forbid I ever find out what that's like
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[07:03] <Riddell> nixternal: what's the status of the docs updates?
[07:03] <DaSkreech> Hi kwwii
[07:03] <Riddell> kwwii: quick meeting in an hour about summit plans
[07:04] <kwwii> Riddell: cool, thanks for the info
[07:09] <nixternal> just finished some homework...when i build it errors out
[07:09] <jjesse> nixternal: do we have lots of updates?  just those bugs fixes correct?
[07:09] <nixternal> correct
[07:10] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29763/
[07:10] <nixternal> that is the error meesage there
[07:12] <jjesse> well that's beyond me as i don't know how to build the packages :(
[07:12] <nixternal> obviously i don't either ;)
[07:14] <Riddell> nixternal: what did you change?
[07:14] <nixternal> rules
[07:15] <nixternal> can you create patches to debian/postinst or no?
[07:15] <nixternal> nm
[07:15] <Riddell> what did you change in rules?
[07:16] <nixternal> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.mk
[07:16] <nixternal> include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make
[07:16] <nixternal>         # install redirect.html for firefox-homepage fix on bug 65685
[07:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65685 in kubuntu-docs ""About Kubuntu" missing "wonderful-linux.html"" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65685
[07:16] <nixternal>         dh_install debian/redirect.html usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/
[07:17] <nixternal> i have the buildlog if that will help you tell me im a moron ;)
[07:18] <nixternal> oh, and i added 'dpatch' and 'patchutils' to the control file
[07:22] <nixternal> Riddell: i think i know the issue, but not 100% sure...is it proper to apply patches to the debian/ directory? i.e., in this case postinst and prerm (this fixes the linking problem - tested w/o patches and it worked)
[07:22] <nixternal> or should i just make the changes to the postinst and prerm files and not do patches for them?
[07:23] <Riddell> nixternal: don't do postinst/prerm at all, that's for scripting stuff
[07:24] <Riddell> nixternal: it may well be the dpatch include that's changing more fundamental stuff about the build process
[07:24] <nixternal> yes, but for bug 65685, it is the only way to close that bug, by creating the redirect.html, moving it into /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/ and then symlink firefox-homepage to it with update-alternatives
[07:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65685 in kubuntu-docs ""About Kubuntu" missing "wonderful-linux.html"" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65685
[07:24] <nixternal> should i try w/o dpatch, and just use the diffs i created?
[07:25] <Riddell> nixternal: do the diffs just patch the debian directory?
[07:25] <nixternal> no, they patch kubuntu/desktopguide and kubuntu/releasenotes, and then there is a patch where i added redirect.html to the debian/ directory for the dh_install to grab it and move it to the correct directory
[07:27] <Riddell> changes to debian/ can be done directly
[07:27] <Riddell> for the other changes put the patches in debian/patches and try cdbs simple-patch.mk
[07:27] <nixternal> roger that...will try that now ;)
[07:27] <nixternal> thank you
[07:28] <nixternal> simple-patch.mk is rules correct?
[07:29] <nixternal> nm, im looking at the cdbs doco
[07:38] <nixternal> alrighty, it is building..i will test to make sure it works, and then debdiff it for you, or post it on review...what is easier/best for you
[07:43] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29771/
[07:43] <nixternal> Riddell: ^^ have you noticed that in previous doc builds?
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[07:45] <Riddell> nixternal: nope
[07:45] <Riddell> fdoving: see comment on https://launchpad.net/bugs/69583
[07:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69583 in kopete "SRU: kopete can't connect to ICQ. " [Low,Fix committed]  
[07:45] <nixternal> i just seen that..no changes have been made to that either..i will look into it docbook side
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[07:55] <DaSkreech> Bout time :(
[08:01] <fdoving> Riddell: thanks.
[08:03] <Riddell> kwwii: -> #ubuntu-meeting
[08:04] <Riddell> imbrandon: -> #ubuntu-meeting
[08:08] <fdoving> Riddell: fixed.
[08:12] <nixternal> Riddell: works like a charm...would you like me to upload the debdiff to my server so you can grab it? or do you prefer i submit it another way?
[08:12] <Riddell> nixternal: please upload
[08:12] <nixternal> roger that!
[08:13] <nixternal> one minuto
[08:13] <nixternal> un minuto rather
[08:15] <kwwii> sorry, usabilty test
[08:16] <nixternal> Riddell: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/kubuntu-docs.debdiff
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[08:31] <nixternal> it seems i have been missing a meeting ey?
[08:35] <Riddell> nixternal: you're not coming to mountain view though?
[08:36] <nixternal> as of right now, no, but if i get the call tomorrow saying i can miss school, i will be out there on friday
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[08:38] <gemidjy> new Kubuntu artwork sux, Dapper's one was much better
[08:38] <Tm_T> Ok?
[08:39] <nixternal> thank you!
[08:39] <gemidjy> yeah, no problem
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[08:40] <nixternal> i had to do that, sorry ;)
=== sebas gets the 'Useful user of the day' out quickly
[08:41] <Tm_T> =)
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[08:46] <Sime> sebas: hoi, know a good web hoster? Mine's been compromised. ;-/ annoying.
[08:46] <sebas> Ouch.
[08:46] <sebas> I host at jorik's
[08:47] <Sime> sebas: tja. It is more work for the hosting dudes. Kinda annoying for me. Email still seems to work.
[08:48] <Sime> sebas: I say good luck to anyone who wants to read my email. I have a catch all address on the site and no spam filtering on server. ;-)
[08:48] <sebas> I can forward you some additional spam if you want ;.
[08:49] <Sime> keep them busy.
[08:49] <Sime> no to mention the mailing lists.
[08:49] <Sime> I hope they haven't stolen my source doe. ;-P
[08:49] <Sime> code
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[09:09] <imbrandon> Sime, i host at dreamhost ( and have plety of extra space and bandwidth to host you if wanted )
[09:10] <imbrandon> free of course
[09:10] <fdoving> imbrandon: do you think I should update the kopete package to this fix: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136566#c37 ?
[09:10] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 136566 in general "Connecting to ICQ doesn't work anymore" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  
[09:10] <imbrandon> fdoving, isnt that what you just had me upload yesterday ?
[09:11] <fdoving> imbrandon: i updated to this: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136566#c22
[09:11] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 136566 in general "Connecting to ICQ doesn't work anymore" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  
[09:11] <fdoving> there is a new and 'better' fix.
[09:11] <fdoving> the new revision allows you to connect with status 'away' for example.
[09:11] <fdoving> the first fix, the one i implemented.
[09:11] <fdoving> only allows you to connect with status 'online'.
[09:12] <imbrandon> fdoving, make a debdiff and get the main SRU team ( mdz ) to approve it again and i dont see a problem, but make sure its actualy an issue
[09:12] <fdoving> that's what i'm asking you about. I 
[09:12] <fdoving> I'm not sure is is a big issue.
[09:12] <imbrandon> in other words yes i'll sponsor it but do as you did before ( and confirm the bug too )
[09:13] <fdoving> so, you think it's a big enought issue that you can't connect to icq with status set to away (anything not online)? 
[09:14] <imbrandon> well seeing as it hasent left -proposed yet now would be the time to do it, if you waited till it was published i wouldent say so
[09:15] <fdoving> ok. I'll add a new debdiff and let mdz decide.
[09:15] <mdz> I don't use kopete, so it's more helpful to apply the guidelines yourself and help to decide
[09:17] <imbrandon> k
[09:17] <fdoving> I'll explain the difference in a comment to the bug.
[09:17] <fdoving> and add the debdiff.
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[09:31] <snikker> in edgy i'm unable to see the boot informations like in dapper... why?
[09:32] <DaSkreech> snikker: remove the option quiet
[09:34] <snikker> DaSkreech: ah ok, thanks for help
[09:34] <DaSkreech> Sure
[09:35] <snikker> another thing...
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[09:36] <snikker> seem that edgy is little bit slower than dapper... it's normal?
[09:37] <Tm_T> How you measure it?
[09:37] <Riddell> kwwii: cool
[09:38] <snikker> for example when i start an application, it don't start  immediately like in dapper, but after some seconds...
[09:43] <fdoving> mdz: should the version be incremented or can we make the previous upload silently go away? (kopete SRU)
[09:43] <snikker> for a faster system, is better the ext3 fs, or xfs fs?
[09:44] <imbrandon> fdoving / mdz , afaik a release manager hasent poked it through the que yet to -proposed
[09:44] <fdoving> snikker: #kubuntu is the support channel.
[09:45] <mdz> you should increment the version
[09:45] <fdoving> ok, thanks.
[09:45] <snikker> fdoving: sorry, for that... but sometimes in #kubuntu i don't have any answer...
[09:46] <imbrandon> dinner time, back in a few
[09:48] <nixternal> Riddell: did you get a chance to look at that debdiff to see how bad I did yet?
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[09:54] <fdoving> does edgy updates use dot-versions or is that just security? 
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[10:02] <kwwii> how does one add a spec for feisty?
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[10:05] <fdoving> kwwii: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/ -> new spec (up to the left)
[10:06] <nixternal> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addspec
[10:06] <nixternal> to be exact ;)
[10:08] <kwwii> killer, thanks guys :-)
[10:08] <nixternal> wo0t...2 more Kubuntu converts for me...one from SuSE and one from I think Slackware
[10:09] <nixternal> vmware + 64bit has issues..anyone heard of this? or experienced this? anyone want to be me a 64bit system? anyone? ;)
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[10:09] <fdoving> feel free to send me a 64bit system too :)
[10:10] <nixternal> hehe
[10:11] <imbrandon> nixternal, not that i'm aware, i run vmware on amd64 all the time
[10:11] <imbrandon> and Seveas builds all his amd64 packages on that vmware install matter of fact
[10:11] <imbrandon> havent noticed any issues yet ( other than it dosent hold the system time correctly, but thats a vmware issue )
[10:12] <nixternal> ya, i have that same issue x86
[10:12] <imbrandon> just set a cron to update the time every minute seems to work
[10:12] <nixternal> don't botther me...i only use it for testing and screenshots
[10:14] <imbrandon> but yea other than that it works pretty flawless
[10:14] <imbrandon> and has been for months
[10:22] <nixternal> hey, Kubuntu Hoarty artwork sux!
[10:22] <nixternal> Hoary too
[10:22] <nixternal> ;)
[10:25] <kwwii> hehe
[10:25] <kwwii> dude, who was that guy?
[10:26] <nixternal> i have no clue
[10:26] <kwwii> crazy
[10:26] <nixternal> im sorry, any artwork w/o bubbles is better ;)
[10:26] <kwwii> some freaky developer
[10:26] <nixternal> only someone stoned out of their mind would create bubbles ;)
[10:27] <kwwii> hehe, I was totally straight when I made the bubbles
[10:27] <nixternal> hahaha
[10:27] <nixternal> so you say
[10:27] <kwwii> you can ask Riddell, I was sitting next to him in London
[10:28] <kwwii> did that pic in one day
[10:28] <nixternal> i should be like viper8675309 and be like, im gonna use fedora cuz they use dna chains for artwork
[10:28] <kwwii> hehe
[10:28] <kwwii> yeah
[10:39] <nixternal>  Online attackers are exploiting a serious vulnerability in Visual Studio 2005, putting developers at risk
[10:39] <nixternal> aren't microsoft developers at risk, even if they aren't using VS2k5?
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[10:48] <DaSkreech> From Freedom communism extremists?
[10:50] <nixternal> heh
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=== imbrandon wants to goto the uber secret canonical week in SF :(
[11:16] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:19] <ryanakca> imbrandon: any idea as to why amarok doesn't transfer album art to my ipod anymore?
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[11:23] <imbrandon> ryanakca, afaik it never should have
[11:23] <imbrandon> thats been a long standing request but never put into code
[11:23] <imbrandon> ohhh album art
[11:24] <imbrandon> i thought you meant pictures
[11:24] <imbrandon> ummm album art is embeded into the mp3's
[11:24] <imbrandon> so if the mp3 has it , it transfers
[11:24] <imbrandon> ( atleaste the way apple does it, windows has seperate files for album art )
[11:25] <imbrandon> ryanakca, ^^
[11:29] <kwwii> ok...the wiki pages are underway...check http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/kubuntu-artwork-boot , http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/kubuntu-artwork-login , and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/kubuntu-artwork-desktop
[11:30] <mhb> kwwii: great
[11:30] <kwwii> well, it is a start
[11:31] <mhb> kwwii: I doubt it is possible for a mortal to create better artwork for Feisty than for Edgy ... I like it so much
[11:31] <kwwii> hehe
[11:31] <kwwii> there was a guy here earlier who said he didn't like it
[11:31] <kwwii> said that dapper was better
[11:31] <kwwii> :p
[11:32] <mhb> kwwii: interesting. I wonder if there are more of those
[11:33] <kwwii> mhb: until now, that is the first
[11:33] <kwwii> I was amazed at how much people liked it
[11:35] <mhb> kwwii: I think artwork is one of the most important features of a distribution (too) ... and the change from Dapper->Edgy is really visible in Kubuntu
[11:36] <mhb> kwwii: and frankly Kubuntu made a lot more progress than Ubuntu - congratulations
[11:37] <mhb> (artwork-wise)
[11:37] <kwwii> mhb: I think so too, edgy is some of the best work I have done in a while, I think :-)
[11:37] <kwwii> I wish that someone would notice it
[11:37] <kwwii> I read one review where it was mentioned
[11:37] <kwwii> but that is all
[11:38] <ryanakca> imbrandon: yeah, it's stuck into my .m4a's and .mp3's tags... but it doesn't transfer...
[11:38] <imbrandon> works here, i just tested to make sure
[11:38] <mhb> kwwii: when I write about Kubuntu Edgy I always mention the artwork (but I write in Czech mostly, you can't read it :o)
[11:38] <kwwii> :P
[11:38] <imbrandon> kwwii, i mentioned it on dot.kde.org :)
[11:39] <kwwii> imbrandon: and I love you for loving me
[11:39] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:39] <kwwii> imbrandon: I noticed that, and wanted to say thank you
[11:39] <kwwii> " "
[11:39] <imbrandon> :)
[11:40] <ryanakca> imbrandon: odd... hmm.. any suggestions? reinstall? format/reset the ipod?
[11:40] <fdoving> kwwii: i've seen words like amazing, very sexy, beeing used in #kubuntu about the edgy-artwork :)
[11:41] <imbrandon> ryanakca, i would start by resetting the ipod as thats the easiest
[11:41] <ryanakca> imbrandon: menu+up button, or the reset to factory setting with ipod updater?
[11:42] <imbrandon> ipod updater ( not the newest one from itunes 7 )
[11:42] <ryanakca> menu+center I mean
[11:42] <ryanakca> kk... (why not the newest one)
[11:42] <kwwii> fdoving: hopefully this will be the needed "kick in the ass" to get a community behind the artwork
[11:42] <imbrandon> becouse it will not work in edgy anymore if you do
[11:42] <ryanakca> ah
[11:43] <ryanakca> so, when does work on feisty start? (or has it already?)
[11:43] <fdoving> kwwii: let's hope so, i don't do graphics so I can probably not help much. I used 2 hours to edit a little icon for a MOL shortcut on my desktop, and it still looks like a kid made it.
[11:44] <imbrandon> fdoving, hehe
[11:44] <imbrandon> why not use the logo ?
[11:44] <ryanakca> fdoving: lol, I'm in the same boat as you are... I can do stuff  in gimp if I have instructions in front of me... other than that... forget it
[11:45] <kwwii> fdoving: hehe, funny..."for each, his own", my mother would say
[11:45] <fdoving> imbrandon: i use the mol.xpm included, just had to make the background transparent.
[11:45] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:45] <mhb> kwwii: it's hard to find good graphic designers for FLOSS
[11:46] <imbrandon> no its hard to find consitant ones, there are lots of great ones that pop in and do this or that
[11:46] <imbrandon> and then disappear
[11:46] <imbrandon> :)
[11:47] <mhb> imbrandon: yes, that too
[11:48] <ryanakca> hmm.. I don't think I did anything artwork that got in... I made that konqueror metabar image, it got scrapped... the RC image, that got onto kubuntu.org... and I converted kde-pim to purple before people realised that imbrandon had already done it...
[11:49] <mhb> imbrandon: concerning koffice-by-default in Feisty ... do you think it will be good enough?
[11:49] <imbrandon> yes i whole heartedly do, it works very well for day to day stuff
[11:49] <mhb> imbrandon: I've heard a lot of criticism of koffice lately
[11:50] <imbrandon> yes and the same can be said for oo.o too
[11:50] <imbrandon> everything has its issues, its the one you want to deal with and i stongly feel we should be using kde software when availible
[11:50] <mhb> imbrandon: sure, but the truth is oo.o can import Microsoft Word documents better
[11:50] <mhb> imbrandon: and that's *very* important
[11:50] <imbrandon> i mean if not why dont we use synaptic instead of adept etc
[11:51] <imbrandon> mhb, well thats debateable
[11:51] <mhb> imbrandon: well
[11:51] <imbrandon> it works with any docs and xls i have used just fine
[11:51] <mhb> imbrandon: I know you probably don't speak Czech but check out these pics: http://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/otakar/2006/10/30/155923
[11:51] <imbrandon> i dont
[11:51] <mhb> imbrandon: the same .doc document opened in Microsoft Word, oo.o and koffice
[11:52] <imbrandon> and rember this will help stablize koffice more too, for those power users that need the advanced features they have no issues installing oo.o or using the LTS release dapper
[11:52] <mhb> imbrandon: sure, but all the new users need .doc imports
[11:52] <imbrandon> kubuntu is a very public face of KDE and should promote its software when possible and it /is/ a viable alternative
[11:53] <imbrandon> and as i said , it works with any docs i have just fine
[11:53] <apokryphos> stability for KOffice really isn't nearly as much of an issue
[11:53] <apokryphos> I use it every day and I get zero crashes
[11:54] <imbrandon> basicly i see it like this , if we can use oo.o we should be using synaptic for the same reasons ( no good kde package manager ) and thats not the right anwser
[11:54] <apokryphos> well, surely not now -- adept is very nice =)
[11:55] <imbrandon> if its left on the back burner it will never be taken serouisly and as long as this isnt a LTS release i see now as the time to act
[11:55] <mhb> imbrandon: it's not that easy
[11:55] <imbrandon> apokryphos, what planet are you from hehehe
[11:55] <mhb> imbrandon: the problem is while you don't use Adept every day, you do use the office suite
[11:55] <mhb> imbrandon: so it has to be first class, very polished and functional
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[11:56] <imbrandon> mhb, but adept can ( and does ) break systems, an office suite dosent
[11:56] <mhb> imbrandon: adept is *bad*, no doubt about that :o)
[11:56] <imbrandon> mhb, and it wont get there by no one using it, its matured to the point it can be used day to day
[11:57] <imbrandon> not to mention the fact about faster startup times , faster loading of documents , less memory useage becouse of the kdelibs already loaded, less diskspace on our already tight cd
[11:57] <mhb> imbrandon: if Koffice won't offer the same .doc import features as oo.o does, I'll vote against it
[11:57] <imbrandon> etc etc etc
[11:58] <mhb> imbrandon: because users really need that
[11:58] <mhb> imbrandon: we can't just say "use this, it will be more troubling, but it's KDE"
[11:58] <imbrandon> mhb, ok then lets load up synaptic becouse i cant install packages with adept
[11:58] <mhb> imbrandon: adept will get fixed
[11:58] <fdoving> imbrandon: that's hardly comparable.
[11:58] <imbrandon> why not we do with adept and it breaks systems regularly
[11:58] <imbrandon> mhb, so will koffice
[11:59] <mhb> imbrandon: as I said - if it will before Feisty, I'll be happy
[11:59] <imbrandon> and i put my money on koffice being fixed faster as there is a large team behind it and -0- behind adept atm
[12:00] <imbrandon> mhb, what before feisty ? 1) feisty isnt a LTS so now is the time for a change 2) docs load just find, infact i just opend a few resumes just fine in the background
[12:00] <fdoving> kubuntu is shipped with, apt-get, aptitude and adept. It's not like we will ever ship more than one office suite. if it doesn't work you're out of options or you're looking forward to a ~200M download.
[12:01] <kwwii> time for sleep..night all, more work tomorrow
[12:01] <mhb> kwwii: goodnight
[12:01] <fdoving> nite kwwii.
[12:01] <imbrandon> fdoving, there are other things to do the same job if you look at it like that, cli you have nano or vi
[12:01] <imbrandon> apt-get !+ adept
[12:01] <imbrandon> != ^
[12:01] <fdoving> imbrandon: not if you have a .doc or have to publish a .doc
[12:02] <mhb> imbrandon: yes well, I have different experience (no objective tests, but we should conduct some before including it with Kubuntu)
[12:02] <fdoving> then you hopefully have a old kubuntu livecd with oo.o on it 
[12:02] <imbrandon> then you dont need a ~200mb download, i serouisly doubt oo.o-writer is 200mb
[12:02] <imbrandon> mhb, thats what the bof's are for in MTV
[12:03] <imbrandon> or abiword , or any number of non-kde apps
[12:04] <mhb> imbrandon: yes, sadly I won't be there :o) can I write under your spec (BoF & discussion part) that you should discuss some Koffice tests before inclusion?
[12:04] <imbrandon> mhb, thats a given but feel free to do as you wish
[12:05] <mhb> imbrandon: ok, just to make sure :o)
[12:07] <imbrandon> ( just as a side note too think about we already ship 2/5ths of koffice in krita and kontact )
[12:07] <imbrandon> so the base libs are there too
[12:08] <fdoving> mhb: can you do a kopete icq test for me? 
[12:10] <mhb> fdoving: I can, if you need Edgy
[12:10] <imbrandon> fdoving, i can also if you have x86 debs
[12:11] <fdoving> ok, both is nice.
[12:11] <fdoving> do you have the deb i provided yesterday, with the icq fix installed?
[12:11] <imbrandon> no
[12:12] <mhb> fdoving: I have, what next?
[12:12] <fdoving> imbrandon: get it at: http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kopete-fix/kopete-edgy/kopete_3.5.5+kopete0.12.3-0ubuntu2_i386.deb - tell me when done (removing it as i don't want people to use it)
[12:12] <fdoving> mhb: ok, disconnect icq, and then try to connect directly to 'away' status. or any other status than 'online'.
[12:13] <mhb> fdoving: hm, no good
[12:13] <mhb> fdoving: I get online
[12:13] <imbrandon> got it