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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
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digitalmousegreetings programs! :)09:34
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juliuxhi jsgotangco 12:27
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
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UbugtuSchedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 20:00: Technical Board12:59
highvoltagegood afternoon01:00
rodarvusgood morning :)01:00
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juliuxhi all01:01
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jsgotangcojust before we start i just want to say to everyone in edubuntu that i'll be leaving for a while and sort out things at work01:01
highvoltagejsgotangco: saw your post to -doc01:02
highvoltagejsgotangco: will you be able to make ec meetings at least?01:02
jsgotangcohighvoltage: sure but i was thinking of resigning there as well01:02
RichEdhello all ... meeting will be starting in 2 minutes ... in the meanwhile, please all take a look at:01:02
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=== pips1 will miss jsgotangco
highvoltagejsgotangco: well, I hope you'll be able to make ec meetings for a while still01:02
jsgotangcoits not like i wont go on irc, i'll just be a passive spectator that's all01:03
pips1jsgotangco the lurker!01:03
RichEdjsgotangco ? where was the post ? can you send it to me ?01:03
RichEdI'll post that page link again for Kamping_Kaiser :01:04
RichEdThat will be the basis for most of our meeting today. 01:04
RichEdWe will need to look at the user requests, and match against the specs recorded ...01:04
pips1RichEd: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-November/007280.html01:05
RichEdAnd then see what is missing that we need to add to specs01:05
=== ajmitch should drag himself along to 1 or 2 of those spec sessions
ajmitchespecially the network-auth stuff01:05
RichEdI myself will need some technical help with the matching :)01:05
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=== RichEd is back in 2 mins ... quick restroom break
highvoltagejsgotangco: how long do you think you'll be away for? do you have an idea how long it would take to finish doing the block of work that you're taking on?01:06
jsgotangcohighvoltage: i plan to take a rest the whole of feisty and just be a user then come back on feisty+101:07
highvoltageah, ok01:07
jsgotangcoi'd still do some stuff though but not so much involved01:08
highvoltageso roughly 5-6 months01:08
ajmitchRichEd: how much overlap is there in some of those specs?01:08
ajmitcheg edubuntu-network-auth-server and easy-ldap-server, or edubuntu-network-auth-client & network-authentication01:08
jsgotangcohighvoltage: i felt i haven't been that much effective lately so i'll take a rest on that and focus01:08
Kamping_Kaiserajmitch, we dont know - i finished colating them 10 minutes ago01:08
Kamping_Kaisermabye 1501:09
RichEdajmitch: not sure, we can talk them through ?01:09
highvoltageajmitch: I believe the current list is just a summary of different suggestions that have come up, the list itself still needs to be refined and cleaned up01:09
RichEd==== okay everyone ready ====01:09
RichEd=== meeting discussion doc: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu ===01:10
RichEdall do a quick refresh ... I neatened / fixed the bullets01:10
ajmitchRichEd: ok, I think we can probably reduce the duplication01:10
ajmitchI've subscribed to all the auth-related ones for mtv01:10
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rodarvussomeone added about four pages of information in the last 30 seconds :D01:11
RichEdgreat ... I'll add comments to the wiki doc as we work through in the meeting, and we can clarify ...01:11
ajmitchrodarvus: heh ok :)01:11
RichEdrodarvus: mostly cut & pastes from the users emails ... quite a lot of overlap we will be able to knock out01:11
RichEdright ... can I ask you all to scroll to:01:12
RichEdGeneral Existing Request01:12
RichEdDynamic Menus <- this is already being worked on by LaserJock ... the ability to be able to switch desktop menus ... I think it is significant for teachers in a mixed audience environment01:13
RichEdSo I would like to add my personal priority support for this one.01:14
RichEdI'll make sure it is up for a UDS discussion topic01:14
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RichEdThe next 2 items:01:14
RichEdEdubuntu "bundle" for Seconday Schools01:14
RichEdEdubuntu "bundle" for Universities01:14
RichEdThis will largely be:01:15
fernando"ltsp-fat-clients" duplication on discussion doc01:15
willvdlpresumably this maps to the CD pack debate?01:15
Kamping_Kaiserfernando, theres probably a block of 5 that are duped - i double pasted01:15
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RichEdwillvdl: yep that will be more in the *how* but let's talk about the requirement first01:16
RichEd1. a different desktop menu01:16
RichEd2. different base install applications01:16
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RichEdCan someone give me guidance on who selects the menu and base install applications ?01:16
jsgotangcoits called seeds01:17
jsgotangcotechboard does that01:17
rodarvusit would be nice to have LaserJock here to complement the default explanation with his work01:17
jsgotangcoas well as -desktop01:17
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RichEdjsgotangco: does techboard do this across Ubuntu and Edubuntu ?01:17
rodarvusbut as jsgotangco says yes, this is done on a per-distro basis (ubuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu and kubuntu)01:17
highvoltagethe preseeds usually just selects the -desktop package, and then the -desktop package is dependent on all the programs that should be installed.01:18
rodarvusthe techboard gives recommendation on what each distro should have01:18
Kamping_Kaiserjsgotangco, does that mean 'tech bord do in asociation with edubuntu', or 'they say what edubuntu gets'?01:18
jsgotangcoRichEd: depends on the seeds01:18
highvoltageat the moment ogra maintains edubuntu-desktop, afaik01:18
jsgotangcoKamping_Kaiser: depends on the seed management01:18
rodarvusbut we (edubuntu core devs) have a reasonable free hand on what we add to our 'seeds'01:18
RichEdand how early does this get fixed in the spec process ?01:18
rodarvusand ogra has chosen not to add to Edubuntu stuff that was added to Ubuntu in the past01:18
rodarvus(for space restrictions, mainly)01:18
RichEdDo we have to have this list of applications completed by the end of UDS, or is there time to add to them ?01:19
rodarvusso, I'd say techboard gives the direction on the 'skeleton' packaegs that *must* be present. We (Edubuntu) have a free hand to chose the rest.01:19
jsgotangcoyou don't have to decide during the sprint01:19
ajmitchI believe there's time after UDS to finalise specs & even propose more01:19
jsgotangcobut you can raise to the techboard during the sprint that you'd like this01:19
rodarvuswe'll have plenty of weeks after UDS to chose what packages we want, but its nice to have something done on this regard, during the week01:20
RichEdRight, so can we suggest what "dicsussion topic" we can create to cover this ... something like: "mutiple edubuntu 'editions" and how to cope with them"01:21
RichEd- space considerations01:21
RichEd- application considerations01:21
rodarvusRichEd, right.01:21
RichEd- when we need the final list01:21
rodarvusI can add a feature for this01:21
rodarvusand we can ask mdz to mark it as essential or at least high priority01:21
RichEd- what testing needs to be done01:21
rodarvus(your feedback on this will make sure it gets prioritized correctly ;) )01:21
RichEd- what licence checking needs to be done01:22
highvoltageRichEd: there's also packaging. software that ships with edubuntu has to be in main as well, afaiu01:22
RichEdhighvoltage: noted ... main / universe / multi-verse etc needs to be part of the discussion01:23
RichEdokay ... I'll make a topic based on the above ... I will do it on the wiki page first, and then register it in launchpad01:23
RichEdmoving on to the requests now from list subscribers01:23
=== pips1 finished reading through the UdsMtvEdubuntu page
RichEdEric Harrison : K12LTSP01:24
RichEdEric will be at UDS, hosted by Oliver and myself ... and note that David Trask is an educator tagging along with Eric.01:24
highvoltageoh great01:25
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highvoltageI wish I could be there to meet them too :)01:25
RichEdEric is a *significant person to get happy with Edubuntu*01:25
rodarvusRichEd, I took notes too. as soon as we're finished with the meeting (and after a few other things) I'll create the spec, and send email to you and mdz01:25
rodarvusok to go ahead with that?01:26
jsgotangcoEric is great01:26
RichEdrodarvus: fine ...01:26
RichEd Management issues i.e.01:26
RichEd    *01:26
RichEd      adding/deleting users01:26
RichEd    *01:26
RichEd      group management01:26
RichEd    *01:26
RichEd      different desktop configurations for different groups01:26
RichEd    *01:26
RichEd      monitoring usage01:26
RichEd    *01:26
RichEdWhich fearures at the top of the page cover this area ?01:27
RichEd[different desktop configurations for different groups]  this obviously fits into the dynamic menus01:28
ajmitchedubuntu-network-auth-server covers some of the user/group management via smbldap01:28
willvdlas does nis-ldap-migration?01:28
RichEdokay ... and  ltsp-management-gui ?01:28
ajmitchdireectory services team has been busy writing up some stuff01:28
willvdland easy-ldap-server?01:29
rodarvusRichEd, what day do you plan to arrive in the US?01:29
ajmitchI'm not sure if we want to try & resolve overlap now or at UDS01:29
RichEdajmitch: I'll dig deeper on those in LP and see what notes people have, and that may clarify01:30
RichEdrodarvus: saturday just after lunch 01:30
fernandoajmitch: are you a directory service team member?01:30
ajmitchfernando: yes, I'm fairly involved01:31
rodarvusRichEd, Saturday the 4th, or the 11th? (just to make sure :) )01:31
ajmitchsince I've got a reasonable chunk of GUI code for client setup01:31
RichEdrodarvus: 4th :)01:31
RichEdokay ... moving on: Remote access01:32
RichEdcomments ?01:32
RichEdUbiquitous access to computers in schools is a great thing.01:32
RichEdUbiquitous access to those computing resources from the kids' homes is even better.01:32
Kamping_Kaiserwhat sort of remote acccess?01:33
Kamping_Kaiseroff site, or 'i see your screen'?01:33
RichEdI'm presuming he is talking about accessing your school work on the school server while on your home PC01:33
RichEd--- it this a reasonable requirement at this stage of our development, given that not all that many of our users will have a PC and internet at home ?01:34
jsgotangcothat's pretty cutting edge01:34
jsgotangcoi mean why can't moodle stack up to something like that01:34
Kamping_Kaiserremote access from home i wouldnt do now. 'teacher sees student screen' i would suport now01:34
RichEdI think in the US, the home PC and cheap internet may be a reasonable chunk of people, but not for the rest of the world01:34
RichEdOkay ... I agree with Kamping_Kaiser 01:35
jsgotangcoif its just within the lab its doable01:35
RichEd'teacher sees student screen' <- are there existing open source tools that will do this, and which will work with Edubuntu ?01:35
RichEdhighvoltage ???01:35
willvdlhighvoltage, NetOps! :)01:35
highvoltageRichEd: I think it's part of the long term goals for s-c-p01:35
jsgotangcovnc, nx, stuff like that01:36
RichEdi.e. the question is ... do we need to develop this, or can we bundle an existing application01:36
highvoltagejsgotangco: I believe s-c-p will have some kind of vnc integration at some stage01:36
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highvoltageRichEd: it's being develeped01:36
jsgotangcoits pretty doable as an s-c-p plugin for sure01:36
highvoltagepity cbx33 isn't here01:37
RichEdhighvoltage: thanks ... but how do we ensure that it is in feisty ? can you pin it down for me ?01:37
highvoltagehe has some ideas around that01:37
willvdlhighvoltage, isn't there some schooltool devel in that arena too?01:38
highvoltageRichEd: ogra is looking at some open source nx too, there's a bunch of technical options a tthis stage, but it's impossible for me to give an estimate on timeline, it certainly looks possible for feisty, whether it's plausable would be discussed at the summit01:38
RichEdquestions for ignorant me ... I presume this would be expected to work over any networked clients and not just an LTSP setup01:38
RichEdand #2 would anyone see this as being a general ubuntu requirement ?01:39
highvoltagewillvdl: in schooltool? not that I've seen before. must be very new if there is :)01:39
jsgotangcoit adds up another layer of bandwidth for LTSP already if you use remote access01:39
RichEdi.e. in an iCafe, that would also be useful01:39
jsgotangcobut a typical school lab would like to do that01:39
highvoltageRichEd: it should work on full machines too, it might be dependent on installins some additional software on the machine, but that shouldn't be a problem01:40
rodarvussorry, I was reading specs and lost the meaty vnc stuff01:40
RichEdand my #2 what chance is there that Ubuntu people would see a need for this in the general network world ?01:40
rodarvusafaik, not only SCP should be able to do it, but it is on the TODO Plans01:40
RichEdwould it be useful for a help desk support person where the clients are using Ubuntu on the work desktop ?01:41
rodarvusremote access is easily doable on the teachers computer, using vnc01:41
rodarvusif I'm not mistaken, there is even a button for this already01:41
Kamping_KaiserRichEd, remote vision would help for helpdesk01:41
jsgotangcoRichEd: its already used heavily, we just need to integrate it01:41
jsgotangcothe technology is pretty mature01:41
rodarvus(which might have been removed just in time for freeze, when cbx33 didn't had the time to finish the feature)01:41
RichEdjsgotangco: bang on the head ... if it exists, we need to provide directions01:41
jsgotangcolike what the others said you have vnc and nx01:42
jsgotangcoand s-c-p integrated01:42
RichEdokay ... I'll make a topic for integrated remote access / remote mangement of client workstations01:42
highvoltageKamping_Kaiser: student control panel01:42
rodarvusStudent Control Panel01:42
RichEdwe can talk about the current state and future plans at the session01:42
Kamping_Kaiseraaah, thanks01:43
rodarvusbetter call it SCP or s-c-p, so we don't confuse with 'scp' from OpenSSH :)01:43
Kamping_Kaiserthats why i wondered ;)01:43
RichEd==== moving on ... time is short for the long list ====01:43
RichEdWireless/mobile devices: We are seeing more and more "non-desktop" computing devices01:43
highvoltagethat's rodarvus's area of expertise :)01:44
RichEdrodarvus and I have been chatting with mark around some areas that touch on this ...01:44
RichEdMark's feeling is that the current level of school child mobile device is not a signficant education tool01:44
RichEdI do not think we need to lead here ... more keep our eye on developements, and make sure that people who are heading in this directions themselves consider us for a platform.01:45
RichEdi.e. we will not kick off or champion any projects01:45
RichEdso I'm dropping that one to the bottom of the list01:46
highvoltageit's also dependent on a mature ubuntu-embedded01:46
rodarvus(and work would be too heavy stuff for it to be lead by us)01:46
pips1there are some field test with mobile devices used in education with students... I read a report somewhere01:47
RichEdhighvoltage: and that's just to get the end user device ... then there is formatted content, push server, cost management al that to go through before the first useful lesson is delivered !01:47
jsgotangcoon our side we've been looking at the gumstix01:47
jsgotangcobut on the server side01:47
highvoltageRichEd: indeed :)01:48
RichEd=== moving on ===01:48
RichEdWeb-based applications: Applications such as Moodle are in high demand01:48
RichEdThis topic has been raised before ... can someone give me comments on that is practically being suggested ? Bundling Moodle functionality into Edubuntu ?01:49
RichEdon *what is01:49
jsgotangcoLAMS is pretty cutting edge but has a logical workflow01:49
Kamping_Kaiserwhas in demand - what moodle provides, or web based apps?01:49
jsgotangcobut Moodle functionality is relative to how one uses it01:50
RichEdLAMs is a partner that we need to get close to ... but as I understand it ... this would all run in a web browser ? Please correct me if I am wrong.01:50
RichEdSame for moodle based information sites ?01:50
willvdlnot only moodle, but schooltool, library packages, SAMS and the like01:50
RichEdSo is there a need for us to develop or integrate anything ? That is the part I am not sure about01:51
jsgotangcoyou're already have schooltool01:51
jsgotangcopackaging moodle has been a target before01:51
highvoltagethe schooltool bundled with edubuntu is very limited though01:51
Kamping_Kaiserchoosing one thing and shifting it into main, and leaving other stuff in universe but available makes sense - i just cant offer an option on what to select wehre01:52
RichEd^^ jsgotangco: that is what I meant by previous discussions ... what would packaging entail ?01:52
highvoltageKamping_Kaiser: it also gives the software a change to be widely tested before it becomes supported01:52
RichEdwouldn't moodle be like any other application ?01:52
Kamping_Kaiseryse, true01:52
jsgotangcoRichEd: well as a webapp, it has its usual dependencies01:53
jsgotangcoyou're basically running a webserver01:53
pips1The way I see the Moodle / LAMS / insert-your-edu-web-application-here situation is: the management issues will be crucial for their adoption.. If it is easy to setup (by a.) lab admins and b.) teachers ) and use (by teachers and students), it will be used. However, a big problem is the whole unresolved/non-integrated "identity management" issue (Authentication, User/Groups Management)01:53
highvoltageat the edubuntu summit, php was an issue. lots of ubuntu developers felt that php should not be included in any ubuntu CD01:53
highvoltageand moodle and mediawiki depends on php, so it was a big issue.01:54
Kamping_Kaisershould something as big as moode+depends be on the cd though?01:54
Kamping_Kaiseri thougth it was pretty chunky addition01:54
RichEdso ... in our thinking we have been bouncing around about "approved official ubuntu / edubuntu space" and the planned "end user unofficial ubuntu and education space" would it make sense then to slowly bring Moodle and LAMs in from the "recommended by other users" space, and then we can slowly look at moving it towards the ofdicial space ?01:55
rodarvusactually, MediaWiki itself was a much bigger problem than PHP01:55
RichEd*official space ?01:56
rodarvusPHP has a huge history with security - but its bugs are always plugged in time01:56
jsgotangcowe do support PHP as well01:56
highvoltageRichEd: I think that's a great suggestion, when the work has already been 'done' unofficially, it's much easier to bring in officially later on01:56
jsgotangcobut Mediawiki has a history01:56
RichEdi.e. get comments and experiences from people using it, some forum discussions, some "if you8 want to use it here are some recommendations"01:56
rodarvuswhile MediaWiki's recommendation is "upgrade to latest version", which is not practical for linux distributions01:56
rodarvus(and much worse for a LTS such as Dapper was)01:56
pips1RichEd: ++01:57
highvoltageand the web packages in ubuntu goes largely unmaintained, so it's difficult to use01:57
Kamping_Kaiserrodarvus, sounds like moz.corp :(01:57
highvoltagefor example, drupal in ubuntu is still on 4.5.8-201:57
RichEdhighvoltage: yes, because we also get an idea of how much the end user community wants the application, and then this can add weight to the later php bunfight 01:57
highvoltagethat's ancient :)01:57
highvoltageRichEd: yep01:57
Kamping_Kaiserwould up to date versions of these packages help people adpot/trial them?01:58
RichEdokay ... noted ... === moving on again ===01:58
pips1Did anyone understand my point about the non-integrated "user management" above at all? :)01:58
jsgotangcoRichEd: sometimes, these tihngs are better off installed sepeartely by the user for various reasons (maintainability on the distros part, security, etc)01:58
RichEdjsgotangco: agreed ... we have been suggesting a space for suggestions like this ... "you are on your own but you may find this useful"01:59
pips1anyway, just to be realistic: I don't think any web-apps like Moodle/LAMS/etc. will end up in "main" Feisty01:59
RichEdand if the demand is high, we move towards the official support01:59
RichEdi.e. "a free for all advice space", with a path to upstream, with its usual approvals and hurdles02:00
Kamping_KaiserRichEd, are you thingking 'external (not packaged) -> packaged (universe) -> packaged (main) ?02:00
Kamping_Kaiserand you say you can use from anyware, and if its more used, it goes closer to main?02:00
pips1Kamping_Kaiser: I think that is how it should ideally work02:01
RichEdKamping_Kaiser: yes, with one more step ... the space will say clearly that this is NOT official ubuntu / edubuntu policy or approved ... for example ...02:01
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RichEdThere are some applications that people pay for, but which they find value for money, but which would phreak out the hard core FOSS crowd. We still want to be able to make our users aware of what is being used, and they can make their own decisions.02:02
jsgotangcoRichEd: well we can say we don't package this, but we provide instructions on how to do this in edubuntu when you download tar.gz from blah02:02
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pips1RichEd: when you are restructuring that UdsMtvEdubuntu page, I suggest you try to think along the following lines: Requirements02:03
pips1A. Users Viewpoint02:03
pips1B. Technical Viewpoint (*buntu Implementation/Developers)02:03
RichEdnoted pips1 02:03
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RichEd===== time flows === we move on ===02:04
RichEdFlawless, easy support for Linux servers supporting Mac and Windows clients.02:04
=== ajmitch wanders off to sleep - fire off any questions about network auth stuff to the ubuntu-directory list if you wish
RichEdFlawless, easy support for Linux clients/servers in Mac and/or Windows centric environments.02:04
flintRichEd, speaking of time, just converted to daylight savings... 02:04
RichEd--> I see these as fitting into and being covered by the network auth topic ?02:04
Kamping_Kaiserin what way does the linux server have to support rthe client? (perhaps i should be thinking big here?)02:04
rodarvusRichEd, not really, I think02:05
rodarvusit is the other way around02:05
rodarvus(but can be dependant on network-authentication)02:05
RichEdKamping_Kaiser:  I guess authenticating a Win W/S Mac OS against the user base02:06
jsgotangcolike an active directory?02:06
RichEdSharing server storage space, authentication to get out of firewall ?02:06
rodarvusmy vote for this one is: its important, but not *really* Edubuntu specific, *and* dependant on network-authentication02:06
jsgotangcothis is soo out of touch02:07
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jsgotangcoand way out of edubuntu's core competencies02:07
RichEdjsgotangco: I think he means in reverse of AD ... i.e. not our Edubuntu w/s authenticating against AD, but other clients authenticating against our logins02:07
flintrodarvus, you make a good point about not edubuntu specific...02:07
RichEdso, would this be a topic that would interest Ubuntu  ?02:07
rodarvusI also believe its a time consuming task. anyone cares enough for it to volunteer doing it in feisty timeframe?02:08
rodarvusI am able to help tutoring the developer in question, if there are takers for it.02:08
rodarvusRichEd, yeah02:08
RichEdi.e. if you have an entire Ubuntu network, and the damn DTP / graphics department insists on using Macs, how do they fit into the network ?02:08
flintRichEd, we had macs booting off LTSP at NELS.02:09
highvoltageflint: that's different to authentication02:09
Kamping_Kaiserthe questions more about auth isnt it?02:09
RichEdflint, but wasn't that Macs running *buntu, not MacOS02:09
flintRichEd, indeed it was... 02:09
RichEdWell I can create a feature topic, and we can see if anyone else subscribes ? If it dies, it dies.02:09
RichEdNote that this may also be being worked on by 3rd party util developers or even debian or other FOSS people.02:10
pips1They way I see it. All lot of the Requirements listed on the wiki page touch on lots of stuff that isn't Edubuntu-specific, but *buntu. Looking at it from the Distribution-Viewpoint, I suggest the following categories:  Technical Viewpoint02:11
pips10. "Bundling" (meta topic)02:11
pips11. Hardware/Device support (big overlap "Ubuntu-base" <-> Edubuntu)02:11
pips12. Networking (big overlap "Ubuntu-base" <-> Edubuntu)02:11
pips13. Applications (some overlap)02:11
RichEdSo it is not necessarily our problem to solve. If the real world demand is that high, someone will be looking at it02:11
pips14. Content (some overlap, mainly Tech Doc)02:11
rodarvusFedora has a tool for this, but its not automatic stuff02:11
rodarvus(and this tool can not be used on Ubuntu, at least not easily)02:11
flintRichEd, I got here late, but has anyone addressed the Schools Interoperability Framework (SIF) as part of our goals?02:11
pips1flint: no02:12
RichEdflint, give me one min on that ...02:12
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RichEdpips1: 100% this is first pass discussion ... that page should shrink and refine over the next day or two, and again on Saturday when yourself and myself and ogra and rodarvus are in the same room.02:12
flintRichEd, I try to keep things entertaining :^)02:12
highvoltageRichEd: how will outside participation work?02:12
RichEdso pips1 your comment and structuring is right time at right place02:12
jsgotangcogoo question02:12
RichEdhighvoltage: that is the last topic ... we can fix the agenda to get there in 30 mins to give us 15 mins on that issue alone02:13
pips1flint: SIF is big in US, but not really on the map anywhere outside US, afaik02:13
willvdlflint, I imagine that falls more into application space (schooltool etc)02:14
RichEdflint: Tom Hoffman has been working on OpenZIS and SIF and has built a demo ... he has been chatting to myself ans Steve Midgely02:14
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flintpips1, ah sort of like SAE in mechanical areas...02:14
RichEdThat is a big issue for Tom and Steve, but not so big for us (as per above comments)02:14
RichEdI am sure Tom would be thrilled to have you in his loop ?02:15
flintRichEd, The idea of supporting services in this SIF framework seems worth proposing, merely that02:15
RichEdShall I send an email linking you ?02:15
flintRichEd, I am quite fond of Tom, and meet with him as regularly as possible.02:15
RichEdflint: perhaps you could have the broad discussion with him, and be our bridge ?02:15
RichEdflint and the late joiners see here:https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu02:16
flintRichEd, Have you had a chance to set down with Tom at any of these conferences?02:16
RichEdwe are on the last section under Eric Harrison02:17
Kamping_Kaiseri'm sorry all, but i need to go sleep time :( good luck with the meeting, i'll try and find out what happened tomorrow :)02:17
RichEdflint ... IRC and skype is the sum total of my interaction with him to date02:17
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RichEdKamping_Kaiser: thanks for your help :) check he wiki page tomorrow for refinement02:17
RichEdRight === moving on ===02:17
RichEdMy personal items of interest align with the LTSP developer goals:02:17
RichEdComplete the LTSP work we started in Detroit.02:18
RichEdHelp Ogra with his LTSP management utility02:18
RichEdLocal application support02:18
RichEdImproved sound support02:18
RichEd(not me, eric :)02:18
RichEdI think these are all covered  ???02:18
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pips1what does he mean by  Ogra with his LTSP management utility? is that s-c-p or what?02:18
RichEdpips1: ltsp-management-gui02:19
RichEd=== Franois BARILLON ===02:20
RichEd* users-groups management02:20
RichEd  * creating 50 or more students at a time02:20
RichEd  *  putting them into groups-classes02:20
RichEd  * managing passwords02:20
RichEd * creating common folders02:21
RichEd  * sending a file to an entire group02:21
RichEd--> is this an area of ours, or schooltool ?02:21
RichEdhighvoltage: ?02:21
pips1well, 02:21
jsgotangcoits something ubuntu can benefit02:21
jsgotangcoits pretty much user management02:22
pips1there needs to be some kind of interface in-between *ubuntu user/group management and schooltool's02:22
RichEdI was just thinking that ... ubuntu and a large office network 02:22
flintRichEd, the line between Schooltool and Edubuntu LTSP is somewhat grey.02:22
highvoltageyes RichEd?02:22
RichEdcomment on the above ?02:22
highvoltageI think it's also a case of 'most of the tools already exist' and it just needs to be brought together02:23
pips1that's what I was talking about earlier: integration of Webapplications (Schooltool, Moodle, .. ) and the Desktop is non-existing02:23
flintBased upon this I will add a comment that examining the user XML in the SIF could yield profitable result.02:23
willvdlpips1, how would they integrate anyway?02:24
highvoltageubuntu already has users/groups, and a user admin tool, common folders isn't difficult, but a management tool for this would have huge value to the end user teacher02:24
RichEdwell can I suggest that we look at ubuntu group management from one end, and start "unofficial guidelines on usage of SchoolTool" from the other end, and see where they meet or overlap towards feisty+102:24
pips1The most commenly used "bridge" I know of is LDAP directories (OpenLDAP, but also proprietary ones like AD, etc.)02:24
jsgotangcothis just involves a lot of scripts that needs a front end02:24
fernandoltsp-mangement-gui have a ldap integration?02:24
RichEdfernando: there is another spec * easy-ldap-server02:25
pips1I think there is a big muddle around the whole area...02:25
pips1Lots of specs about that whole area with overlap, but no clear picture02:26
pips1I'm talking about:02:26
pips1* edubuntu-network-auth-server / easy-ldap-server02:26
pips1* edubuntu-network-auth-client / network-authentication02:26
flintRichEd, "unofficial guidelines on usage of SchoolTool" sounds like an excellent place to start!02:27
RichEdyep ... there is stuff proposed by ogra and also by Ubuntu Directory Services ... I assume these would collapse into one broader topic02:27
pips1The way ogra is currently thinking about this, afaik, is that Ubuntu Directory Services will implement the Ubuntu-base, and he will work on additional stuff that is needed to make it work with LTSP02:28
RichEdflint ... you missed the same suggested approach to moddle and LAMs etc. so SchoolTool would be #3 ... "partner applications you may find useful" and then we have a specific forum where we look ate demand and hassle and decide if and when to get closer or "move the relationship upstream"02:28
RichEdmoodle not moddle02:28
flintpips1, When I want to piss Tom Hoffman off, I refer to schooltool as "mini-moodle" :^)02:29
RichEdpips1: ^^ agreed ... because we also add sbalneaves to the picture ... and he may be developing some of this in LTSP 5+1 which will be available to us02:29
highvoltagesbalneav has lots of ldap foo02:30
pips1... continuing from what I said above: But ogra also seems to be determined to find and implement his own entire solution, if it turns out that the Ubuntu Directory Services discussions at UDS MV won't end up with a clear plan and little support from the devs..02:30
flintRichEd, Keep in mind, the result of the "unofficial guidelines on usage of SchoolTool" might point to AD, LDAP all of which might synch with SIF.02:31
RichEdPerhaps we need to plan an "integration of topics and requirements session" for LDAP, Directotry, Auth etc. as one of the first meetings on Sunday, and then combine the meeting subscribers into a bigger consolidated session02:31
rodarvuspips1, nothing beats quality code. if you guys prepare a great project in UDS MV, and implement it in feisty timeframe02:31
rodarvusthere is *nothing* ogra or anyone else can do against it :P02:31
pips1RichEd: that sounds like a good plan!02:32
RichEdflint: so noted ... then we get an idea of the real demand ... and that dictates our level of focus02:32
RichEdpips1: perhaps you and I can work on a spec for this, and register it in our names02:33
pips1rodarvus note that I'm not a developer! This is just me talking! :-)02:33
RichEd=== time is running out ==== agenda again ===02:33
RichEd-> The German-french team of Skolelinux/Debian-Edu is working on Cipux users management and a customised version of moodle. 02:33
RichEdcovered above02:33
highvoltagewhat is Cipux?02:33
pips1Cipux is something like s-c-p but with more features implemented already02:34
RichEdhighvoltage: I missed that .. was focusing on the moodle comment ... but thanks pips1 02:34
RichEd-> Edubuntu should be able to administrate users in a ldap or to connect with an external ldap.02:34
RichEdcovered above02:34
willvdlcan we steal it?02:35
RichEd-> It should be possible to connect edubuntu from windows clients. it should work as a domain server.02:35
RichEdcovered above02:35
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RichEd-> Niko Lewman: I would love to have Pysycache in edubuntu. With it on edubuntu would be a complete setup for preprimary education.02:35
highvoltagehmmm... that gives me an idea for another spec...02:35
RichEd^^ That would fit into a list of possible applications to bundle ... so no urgency ... will add to the list02:36
pips1willvdl: ogra has reservations about it.. he as already met and talked with the Cipux dev, afaik, and ogra mentioned that he will discuss it at MV02:36
RichEdhighvoltage: ??02:36
rodarvuswhat is pysycache?02:36
highvoltagewe could bundle putty and x-server and make an 'edubuntu-windows-client' so that people can connect to their edubuntu session from a windows machine02:36
highvoltagea windows based ltsp client, if you will.02:36
RichEdrodarvus: I'm guessing it is an end user application02:36
rodarvusnever heard about it02:36
rodarvuspysycache -> "Teach children to play with the mouse !"02:37
willvdlhighvoltage, is that arguable a thin-client though?02:37
rodarvusa tool like gcompris, it seems02:37
willvdlor just a remote login/session02:37
RichEdbeat me to it :)02:37
=== pips1 notes that we are just 3/4 down the wiki page...
RichEdPySyCache - and children use the mouse. ... For this, PySyCache offers pleasant activities based on simply objects and a lot of photographies. ...02:37
RichEdso just an application02:38
RichEd=== Simon Ruiz ===02:38
rodarvusyeah, should be a no brainer to add it02:38
highvoltagerodarvus: edubuntugirl says you should look at http://www.pysycache.org/02:38
rodarvuspromoting it to 'main' is another subject, though02:38
pips1sure thing .. :)02:39
rodarvushighvoltage, Google told me the same a few seconds ago ;)02:39
RichEdyep ... same policy as above ... start in the recommended space and let it work it's way towards the bundled space if and when it makes sense02:39
RichEdI'd really like to see an "Active Directory Compatibility" package that can be simply installed through Synaptic that depends on all the necessary packages and configures them correctly,02:39
flintRichEd, I presume that you will get a chance to talk to Tom Hoffman in Mountain View, send him my kindest regards.02:40
rodarvusit seems PySyCache is meant for childrens even younger than the public of gcompris02:40
RichEdSimon has an issue where the US school he is at wants to allow only workstations that can authenticate against "native AD".02:40
rodarvus(and only meant for children to learn how to use the mouse)02:40
RichEdIt looks a bit like a policy to keep Open Source off the network02:40
RichEdDoes anyone here know if you can currently authenticate an Edubuntu w/s against AD without AD knowing you are not MS ?02:41
RichEd(pips1: I am keepin an eye on the time a big chunk of the remainder is comment and duplicate)02:42
RichEdno response ... so moving on ...02:42
flintRichEd, the authentification question can be a trap.02:42
jsgotangcoRichEd: you can't02:42
stelisRichEd: Winbind isn't distro specific02:42
jsgotangcoRichEd: forgive me you can02:43
stelisIt's just getting the config right 02:43
RichEdso do we need work or just config instructions ?02:43
stelisWhich is several different files, and a bit arcane02:43
jsgotangcoRichEd: its like how AD distinguishes non-XP clients (NT below)02:43
stelisGraphical tool + packages02:43
RichEdstelis: on the AD server, or on the w/s02:43
stelisThe w/s02:44
RichEdgreat. will take this one offline.02:44
RichEd-> The rest of simon is application suggestions ...02:44
RichEd=== Kevin Cole ===02:44
RichEd=== David Trask ===02:44
RichEdSound & video ... config help I think ... no development02:45
pips1highvoltage: Cipux is not really comparable with any one application, I think... It a big application that does lots of things in the network admin realm... sort of a webmin-plus-schooltool-plus-s-c-p ? dunno 02:45
RichEdThen a whole lot of single sign on, which Oliver feels is under control02:45
pips1highvoltage: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX02:46
flintRichEd, David is sorta rooting for Samba/LDAP eh?02:46
stelisThe risk is that different methods use different LDAP fields02:46
stelisSo things can be incompatible02:46
pips1flint: yep, we went throught all that already02:47
RichEdthat will be a sub-discussion in the topic ... the meeting requirement is in place02:47
highvoltagepips1: thanks02:47
flintstelis, "different methods use different LDAP fields" could be fixed with a SIF compliance...02:47
pips1flint: stop distracting RichEd :)02:47
flintpips1, np02:47
stelisflint: I'll Google a little on that02:48
RichEdhttp://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX <- this could fall under "partenrship to cultivate" suggested already by Nicalas02:48
stelisand add a note to the spec02:48
RichEdokay ... that's the main chunks ... once I have revised the wiki page, you are free to make comments on that page02:49
RichEdLet me have control of the page for tomorrow ... and on Friday, I am on airplanes for 23 hours, so you guys can edit then, in time for rodarvus pips ogra and I to review in the US before the meeetings02:50
RichEdsorrt that is not clear: on friday, you guys can have the page02:50
rodarvusI'll be on airplanes for 24 hours on friday too02:50
rodarvus(starting 22:00 UTC)02:50
rodarvusbut I'll be working all day, before that02:50
RichEd==== 10 mins for final topic ===02:50
RichEdRemote Participation02:51
RichEd-> What facilities are requested / suggested ?02:51
RichEdwhat suggestions do you guys have ?02:51
jsgotangcofor the summit?02:51
RichEdshould we make a temporary channel ?02:51
jsgotangcojust use skype, its painless02:51
jsgotangcowho cares for now if its non-free it works02:52
flintRichEd, they tried to use teamspeak at one of the conferences, it did not happen...02:52
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RichEdsomething like #edubuntu-uds which is not announced ... so no user support ... just conference copics ?02:52
RichEdjsgotangco: do you mean a skype voice conference where you can join & listen ?02:53
willvdlwith an agenda/time-log posted somewhere02:53
RichEdhighvoltage: you should be commeting on this topic ... you asked for it !02:53
jsgotangcowell sure i thought you had some people who are suppposed to participate but not able to physically02:54
flintRichEd, strangely enough, the net & AV support at the conferences is sporatic at best.  Be mindful of this in planning linkups.02:54
highvoltagesorry, been distracted here02:55
rodarvusjust to let you guys know - its not entirely practical for us attending UDS to hang on irc channels, most of the time02:55
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rodarvusbecause we change rooms a lot02:55
rodarvusand we don't always have connectivity02:55
RichEdflint: that is why I was suggesting an IRC low bandwidth requirement ... skype may break the feed02:55
highvoltageRichEd: I was told before that canonical has been organising infrastructure to allow external communication, and that members will be informed before the summit02:56
RichEdrodarvus: any and all suggestions will be "best effort" ... no guarantees unless the body is in the room.02:56
pips1I wonder what facilities will actually happen to be in place and working ... after all, it is google headquarters. wooohoo! ;-) 02:56
flintRichEd, good, you see the point.  at this time keep expectations low.02:56
jsgotangcoeven the greatest companies have their weaknesses02:56
pips1oh yeah02:57
rodarvusRichEd, sure, taking this in consideration (maybe even having it on the topic of the channel :) ) I totally agree with the idea.02:57
RichEdwell, let me wrap with this suggestion: if you want to be notified ... add your name and email address to:02:57
RichEdWho would like to participate in UDS discussions ?02:57
jsgotangcoconsidering timezones? i doubt i can/will02:57
RichEdon: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu02:57
RichEdif you want to check in with one of us, look out for: #edubuntu-uds02:58
rodarvusone improvement we could do over UDS Paris is to "announce" result of the BoF meetings, after they are done02:58
stelisI'd like to sit on the auth discussions if that's possible02:58
rodarvusI've seen this happening in Gnome's Boston event, last month02:58
RichEdwhich may or may not be up, and which may or may not be populated02:58
rodarvusits nice for those that are interested on the subject, but were not able to assist the meetings02:58
flintRichEd, I will do what I can to monitor https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu02:58
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RichEdstelis: we may end up with the practical situation that we post meeting summaries at best ... this should however allow you guys to raise comments where you see a potential train smash, and we can then arrange to raise concerns (if possible)03:00
RichEd~~ bong ~~ end of meeting bell ... things to do ...03:01
stelisRichEd: OK. Hopefully the directory-services and edubuntu guys will be able to hash things out in person03:01
RichEdany final issues from the floor ??03:01
jsgotangcosee you all and thanks for all the fish03:01
willvdlgood luck at UDS03:01
jsgotangcoi might be online, i might be not03:02
jsgotangcobut ill take time to visit03:02
RichEdstelis: sure ... but I am sure that some of you may have inspired moments ... so we will try to make a space for you to raise them before the concrete droes03:02
pips1stelis: maybe the ubuntu-directory irc channel will be used during MV, I don't know03:02
rodarvusRichEd, do you want to register the irc channel now?03:02
rodarvusannounce it to edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users, etc03:02
stelispips1: Good point03:02
RichEdrodarvus: that may raise expectations too high03:02
RichEdperhaps when the wiki page is neat, we can announce that on the list ... and we can have a not about the channel on the page03:03
flintGood luck to all at UDS in MV!03:03
RichEdthen it means only the serious / committed people who read to the bottom of the page will get involved, and not just the casual rabble rouser ?03:04
RichEdgoing once ... 03:04
RichEdgoing twice ... 03:04
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flintThe casual rabble rouser is buzy with his new house.03:05
flintRichEd, have fun.03:05
flint...and regards to Jane.03:05
RichEdflint: i would see you as a professional, not casual :)03:05
RichEdthanks all ...03:05
RichEdwill say Hi to Jane from Flint03:05
flintRichEd, thanks in return....03:05
pips1thanks, good meeting03:06
flintpips1, indeed one of the best I have gottne to.03:06
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flintgottne gotten.  sksk03:06
pygisorry for jumping in03:06
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highvoltagesorry, lost my connection home toward the end of the meeting03:14
RichEdno problem ... final agreement was ... if you want to be kept up to date with remote facilities, add your name to the bottom of the wiki page03:15
RichEdwe will add an IRC channel to that page03:15
RichEdand we will mail that page to the devel and user groups03:16
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Riddellhi sebas, seele08:03
Riddellhi pinheiro 08:03
sebasHi Riddell, seele, pinheiro 08:03
sebasFirst off, I've got the flight confirmation, Riddell 08:03
sebasDon't we love spamfilters?08:03
pinheirohi guys08:03
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Riddellsebas: phew08:04
Riddellpinheiro, seele: your flights booked ok?08:04
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pinheirogess so08:04
Riddellpinheiro: only guess?08:04
Riddellimbrandon: around?08:05
pinheirowell i dint do much and it the frist time i do this 08:05
Riddellpinheiro: but you confirmed them with the travel agent?08:05
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sebasYou should've gotten a confirmation number, do  you have that?08:06
pinheiroi have a reservation number it it the same?08:06
RiddellI have a reservation number, so that had better be it :)08:07
pinheirook 08:07
sebaspinheiro: Did they tell you that you won't be able to enter the country without a bottle of vintage for sebas?08:07
sebasYou know, US customs are bitches08:07
pinheiroso i heard08:08
Riddelldo make sure you take the address of the hotel with you08:08
RiddellWild Palms Hotel08:08
Riddellso, quiet meeting I guess, anyone heard from John Tapsell or Josef Spillner?08:08
pinheiroheeee nop08:08
=== sebas didn't
pinheirobeen here for a while08:09
seelei am afk for about five more minutes -- phone meeting08:09
seeleRiddell: yes, my flight is booked08:09
Riddellseele: great08:10
Riddellso first thing I was going to say is you need a launchpad account and to register yourself as being at the meeting08:10
pinheirodid that08:10
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imbrandonsorry a bit late08:11
Riddellhi imbrandon, you all sorted for travel?08:11
imbrandonyup, infact i was preping for it now08:12
imbrandonis why i was late :)08:12
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imbrandonbags ready , tickets gotten, hotel hookedup 08:12
seeleok back08:13
Riddellso next thing is the meeting format08:13
Riddellwhich is based around discussing and writing specifications08:13
Riddellthe ones registered so far are at https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+specs08:13
Riddellyou should take a look at the ones that interest you and subscribe to them08:13
Riddelland if you think we should be discussing something that isn't there make a spec and let me know08:14
imbrandoni made one to discuss koffice ( but its approved already )08:14
Riddellimbrandon: mmmm, yes08:14
imbrandoni think thats the only one i havent mentioned08:14
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Riddellhi kwwii 08:15
Riddellkwwii: travel all booked?08:15
kwwiiowdy Riddell, sorry I am late08:15
imbrandoni do have one small question though before we get too started if i may , whom is John Tapsell08:15
kwwiiRiddell: yes08:15
Riddellkwwii: registered at https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+attend ?08:15
Riddellimbrandon: he's a KDE developer, maintains ksysguard among other things08:16
imbrandonahh ok08:16
kwwiiRiddell: yepp08:16
imbrandonjust wondering as he seems to be my roomie08:16
imbrandonanyhow do we have a adept spec ?08:16
imbrandonerr package manager spec08:16
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Riddellkwwii: browsed at the specs? https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+specs08:16
Riddellimbrandon: kubuntu-feisty-adept-changes08:17
Riddellimbrandon: kubuntu-update-manager08:17
=== sebas didn't know kwwii would attend.
imbrandonrockin, we really need to cover that one08:17
kwwiiRiddell: not yeet...I was thinking about adding some art specs08:17
Riddellkwwii: yep, good idea08:17
Riddellalthough speccing art is always a bit beurocratic08:18
jjessecan i interupt and ask if gobby will be used like it was in paris or will something better be used?08:18
imbrandonmaybe just a general one to get the direction of the feisty art08:18
sebasI'm afraid there is nothing better (and free) yet08:18
kwwiiimbrandon: that is the thing, we had something like that last time (like "artwork for edgy should be on time")08:18
jjessethanks seele08:19
jjessedoh sorry thanks sebas08:19
kwwiinot sure if it would not be better to add a bit more info this time around, or try to improve the processes we started for edgy08:19
Riddelldholbach: you were talking about art specs in e-mail, anything come of that?08:19
dholbachRiddell: no, there's no artwork specs in LP for uds-mtv yet08:19
imbrandoni think the kubuntu processes went alot smoother than the ubuntu way, so if we could iron that out08:20
kwwiiI was CC'ed in a mail today about that08:20
=== sebas waves at dholbach
dholbachhey sebas08:20
sebashey there!08:20
kwwiiimbrandon: yeah, but we are not on the community art level that ubuntu is08:20
=== dholbach hugs the Krowd
kwwiiimbrandon: if we want everyone to attend we need to give them the right info so that things don't get all messed up again and again08:20
Riddellkwwii: so I'd say registed kubuntu-feisty-artwork, subscribe pinheiro and yourself08:21
imbrandonkwwii, i would like to see a spec on how i can make art.kubuntu.org help in the feisty process smoothly08:21
imbrandonthat might help moreso than the wiki this time08:21
kwwiiimbrandon: I think that we need to know in advance where different kinds of work will be done08:21
kwwiithe wiki, art.ubuntu.com, mailing list, etc.08:22
pinheirobe back in a sec dinner time08:22
seelei am unfamiliar with some of specifications, if anyone knows where i should be subscribed, can you drop me a note08:22
kwwiiit is still not totally clear, and once art.ubuntu.com gets up and running it might get confusing08:22
Riddellseele: are you registered to attend the meeting on launchpad?  https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+attend08:23
imbrandonits been up and running a week or more now, there are over 100 accounts08:23
imbrandonkwwii, ^08:23
seeleRiddell: yeah, for some reason it says seele instead of celeste08:23
Riddellseele: then click the spec name link at https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+specs and "Subscribe yourself" at the side08:23
Riddellseele: launchpad has "seele" as your real name and "celeste" as your short nickname08:24
Riddellseele: which is fine with me08:24
seeleRiddell: my point was i dont know enough about some of these to know where i can help08:24
seeleRiddell: eg: what is HWDB, that is the only one with "usability" in it08:25
imbrandonthe hardware database front end08:25
Riddellseele: anything with a UI would be where we need you...08:25
sebasseele: That's no problem, you usability guys are versatile enough to be of use in most of the meetings :>08:25
sebasJust choose the ones that sound interesting to you, you'll get dragged in everywhere anyway :>08:26
Riddellseele: kubuntu-feisty-ubiquity,    kubuntu-update-manager, driver-device-manager, kubuntu-feisty-language-selector, kubuntu-samba-integration, kubuntu-feisty-adept-changes, kubuntu-feisty-system-settings  all likely candidates08:26
seeleRiddell: ok, thanks08:26
imbrandonseems we will have a good kde showout this round08:27
sebasRiddell: Kubuntu driver device manager ... is that something from a certain "Vijay Kiran Kamuju"?08:27
sebasI've seen his name come along in the guidance "i wanna help" mail 08:27
Riddellsebas: no, it's the KDE version of https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/driver-device-manager08:28
sebasOr does anyone know?08:28
sebasRiddell: So there's somebody who wants to work on this.08:28
imbrandonplease tell me some of you will chime in on the beryl-by-default spec too , its not near ready 08:28
Riddellsebas: not as far as I know, but if one gets made for gnome then we'll want one in KDE.  08:29
sebasberyl by default would be a *very* bad idea.08:29
imbrandonRiddell, we can stay with kwin for now if ubuntu does that correct ?08:29
sebasEspecially for KDE.08:29
Riddellsebas: that kubuntu spec is marked as depends on driver-device-manager, so it can be ignored unless driver-device-manager gets anywhere08:29
imbrandonsebas, yea its a good idea, just not /yet/08:29
sebasRiddell: I'll email you about that later.08:29
sebasWell, what we want is that stuff in kwin (seli!)08:30
Riddellimbrandon: yes, we'd stay with kwin and hope kwin has enough bling in kde 408:30
sebasberyl just doesn't integrate with KDE at all.08:30
imbrandonRiddell, rockin08:30
imbrandonsebas, yea they released some kde stuff for it yesterday in svn but its very very new and isnt good for default08:30
imbrandonkde4 should be our answer08:30
sebasAh, hm, maybe I should check that out.08:30
Riddellpinheiro: poke kwwii to register a spec and make sure you're subscribed08:31
sebasI wouldn't want something as rockstable as 3.5 to be fscked up by eyecandystuff like beryl.08:31
kwwiipinheiro: do you have a launchpad account?08:31
imbrandonsebas, +108:31
pinheiromy name is nuno08:32
imbrandonplus it messes with all the key binding s and other stuff some take for granted08:32
kwwiipinheiro: cool, later I'll add a spec and we can talk about it :-)08:32
imbrandonand dosent handle dual head monitors etc08:32
pinheiroone thing i would like to ask,  is if there are some computr available so in the meeting so i can do some work?08:32
=== imbrandon gets back on topic
Riddellpinheiro: hmm, no, you don't have a laptop?08:33
imbrandoni'll be brining a laptop, as will most , not sure if there are general use computers08:33
sebasimbrandon: Well, it does handle dualscreen :>08:33
imbrandonsebas, yea but not well08:33
pinheiroheeeeeeee mine is a bit completly broken08:33
sebasWhat problems are you refering to?08:33
sebashttp://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=633 08:33
Riddellanyone have a laptop they can lend pinheiro for the week?08:34
imbrandonsebas, window screen resitance and max windows accross screens08:34
RiddellI wonder if I can blag one off my brother08:34
sebasimbrandon: Aight, that's mostly working fine.08:34
imbrandoni only have one , well i have a 133 pentium but i dont think it would be worth loading08:34
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=== sebas only has one.
pinheiroi will try to find one08:35
Riddellany other questions?08:36
imbrandonis there a schedule for the first day yet ?08:36
sebasWhen does everybody return?08:36
=== sebas will stay in SF until Tuesday
Riddellimbrandon: no, they're usually made on the morning of the day by the automated BoFicator08:37
imbrandoni'll be there till saturday08:37
kwwiiI am leaving friday afternoon08:37
=== sebas is talking about Tuesday 14th
Riddellimbrandon: last time the automated BoFicator didn't take into account that we need KDE/Kubuntu stuff scheduled each day, so we just made up our timetable for much of the time08:37
sebasI missed the party in Paris, no way that happens again :>08:37
imbrandonRiddell, ahh ok08:38
Riddellsebas: I'm saying in SF for another week at the top secret Canonical meeting08:38
sebasThat 'we make our own timetable' worked quite well IMO, the group wasn't big enough to need a boficator08:38
imbrandonhahah thats the 3rd person that called it top secret but announced it 08:38
sebasRiddell: When's that exactly?08:38
sebasMaybe we can grab a beer or twenty somewhere08:38
Riddellsebas: the following sunday to saturday08:39
sebasAye, also in mtv?08:39
Riddellso saturday is a free day 08:39
Riddellsebas: no, in San Francisco somewhere08:39
sebasAh, cool.08:39
nixternali appologize for feeding the troll in #kubuntu-devel08:39
sebasHow will we get from SF airport to mtv?08:39
Riddellsebas: with the excellent US public trasport system known as the private taxi08:40
kwwiiI am thinking about renting a car, in case anyone is arrinving midday on saturday they could catch a lift08:40
Riddellsebas: costs about $40-5008:40
Riddellsebas: http://www.supershuttle.com/08:40
nixternalyou would be better off getting a few of your together and taking a limo, it will be cheaper08:40
sebaskwwii: I will arrive somewhen then08:40
nixternalsuper shuttle is a rip off btw, they have that crap here in chicago as well08:40
imbrandonkwwii, i'll get there about 1030am :)08:40
sebasNo way my cellphone works there08:41
seeledoesnt a cap only cost 30-40$?08:41
RiddellI arrive 16:35 on BA28708:41
imbrandonthats what i was thinking08:41
Riddellsebas: mobile phones, that's something I havn't thought about08:41
Riddellso arrive with dollars for taxi and change for phones08:42
seeleRiddell: do you have a gsm phone?08:42
Riddellseele: yes08:42
=== sebas arrives at 13:30 with KLM605
seeleshouldnt it work?08:42
kwwiihehe, my phone will work, so anyone who wants a ride around 14:00, call me :-)08:42
imbrandongsm phones should work08:42
Riddelldoes the US have GSM now?08:42
sebasYeah, but the wrong kind08:42
=== sebas brings drums
imbrandonyea but i dont know if its compatible08:43
imbrandonbut sprint is gsm08:43
seeleit should work, Jan's phone works when he is here08:43
sebasIsn't that the 1900mhz thing which europeans don't have?08:43
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kwwiisebas: good idea, smoke signals might be misinterpreted08:43
kwwiiif your phone is at least a tri-band, it will work08:43
sebaskwwii: Well, try to bring a lighter on the plane ... 08:43
kwwiiof course, you need international roaming too08:43
RiddellI might try and borrow a triband phone off someone08:43
imbrandonkwwii, shoot me your number , i should be there arround then08:44
sebasWho else knows arrival time and flight number already?08:44
nixternalif you have GSM enabled phone, you will be fine08:44
nixternalor you should be fine rather08:44
imbrandonsebas, i have mine already08:44
=== sebas doesn't feel like waiting 3hrs at the airport to save 15$
sebasimbrandon: tell us then :>08:44
imbrandon1030am 08:44
imbrandonis when i arrive08:44
kwwiiimbrandon, and anyone else: +49 176 239 136 0908:45
imbrandonsebas, elkbuntu gets there at the same time, we were gonna try to share a cab or something08:45
pinheiroanyone arrives friday arround 210008:46
sebasDo you usually need the pincode of your creditcard to pay something in the US?08:46
=== sebas doesn't have the code anymore
kwwiisebas: nope08:46
=== DaSkreech just mentions that kwin by Seli isn't compatible with beryl's plugins
imbrandonsebas, no08:46
seeleUA951 20:13 from IAD08:46
sebasDaSkreech: Well, he said he wants it to be so08:47
sebasseele: What's IAD?08:47
imbrandonF9  653   04NOV DENVER/SAN FRANCISCO  0830   101008:47
seeledulles international, one of three DC airports08:47
sebasAye, thanks08:47
=== imbrandon is gonna convert everyone to Mt Dew before the week is over
Riddellreminds me, must bring Irn Bru to enlighten another country08:49
=== sebas is fine with being converted to any drink
sebasbottles on a plane are OK?08:49
Riddellbest avoided I think08:50
kwwiino liquids08:50
Riddellinfact I don't even know about laptops UK->US08:50
imbrandoni doubt it, unless its in checked luggage08:50
sebasHow do you carry the booze then?08:50
imbrandonno liquids08:50
kwwiiempty bottles, perhaps08:50
sebasThat's kinda pointless08:50
imbrandonnot even toothpaste in carry on *rolls eyes*08:50
imbrandonNO liquids08:50
imbrandonall has to be in checked luggage08:50
kwwiiso here is a question: for edgy we had the ubuntu and kubuntu art specs together...perhaps we should split them up?08:51
sebasAnd don't forget to uninstall libdvdcss everybody!08:51
nixternalimbrandon: so make sure you pee before you leave, otherwise they will arrest you for "terroristic loaded bladder"08:51
imbrandonkwwii, i say seperate, as they are pretty diffrent animals08:51
kwwiiimbrandon: yeah, and the actual status of them is always different anyway08:51
Riddellkwwii: they were the same specs?  I'd definately say separate them08:52
kwwiiok, so I am going to make about 5 specs for kubuntu-art08:52
pinheiro5 ? so many?08:52
imbrandonlemme know what they are , so i can subscribe to some of thtem08:53
Riddellpinheiro: don't complain, it gives you more karma if you're subscribed to more specs :)08:53
kwwii1) boot art (grub and usplash, 2) login and splash, 3) desktop wallpaper, 4) website and release pic, 5) help and start pages08:53
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kwwii3) desktop wallpaper and other elements08:53
RiddellLure: you're in the US already yes?  and travel all sorted?08:53
Lureyes, I am in Orlando08:54
Lureflying to SFO on Sat08:54
kwwii6) CD artwork08:54
pinheiro5 turns out into a 608:55
RiddellLure: registered your attendance at https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+attend ?08:55
LureRiddell: yes08:55
kwwii7) oxygen icons for kde4 :p08:55
pinheirothat one i like08:55
DaSkreechI like my Oxygen08:56
=== Lure will have to read the irc logs as I could not get online for this meeting
RiddellLure: and finally, browsed the specs and subscribed to any you're interested in?  https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+specs08:56
DaSkreechIt's a precusor to being able to Tango :)08:56
LureRiddell: need to do another round as some were added recently08:56
=== sivang wonders which meeting is this now, kubunut? :)
RiddellLure: sounds like you're all sorted then08:56
sebassiretart: Yeah, that one08:57
DaSkreechWhy are people so nutty about kubu?08:57
Riddellsivang: a top secret meeting of KDE/Kubuntu mountain view preparation08:57
sivangRiddell: ah, yeah, so it seems :)08:57
imbrandonsivang, yea what Riddell said, dont tell anyone or you'll get roped into doing something08:57
sivangRiddell: shame I can't join the fun as I won't be attending :)08:57
sivangimbrandon: ^^08:57
sivangI would love to be voulenteerd to do something08:58
Luresivang: you can do it from home ;-)08:58
imbrandonRiddell, so how many KDE/Kubuntu types are attending this round ?08:58
sivanggotta go, Lure : we'll see :)08:58
imbrandonmore than paris ?08:58
Riddellimbrandon: 3 Kubuntu, 5 KDE, same as paris08:58
Riddellassuming John Flux and Josef S turn up08:58
RiddellI'll try and phone them08:58
imbrandonsee we should be KDE/Kubuntu not GNU/Linux ( sarcasim )08:59
kwwiikinda wierd saying that nuno is coming as a kde person...it should probably be internal as it deals with distribution specific graphics...but I'll shut up09:00
imbrandonRiddell, ahh did i tell you i dot intouch with the new debian amarok maintainer and i'll probably be made co-maintaier on it , and I filed a ITP for libmtp and its in NEW in debian09:01
Riddellimbrandon: excellent09:01
imbrandonthe current 1.4.4 in debian mirrors ours09:01
RiddellI think this meeting is about done, any questions?09:01
imbrandonhe got it from kubuntu.org09:01
nixternalwhich way to the pub?09:01
Riddelloh, remember to bring headphone/microphone headsets if you have them09:02
imbrandoni have them i can bring for someone to use, but my laptop has no mic jack09:02
sebasFor teamspeak?09:02
imbrandonso i'll have an extra set for someone if they forget/dont have thtem09:02
Riddellsebas: we're being brave and using SIP this time09:03
Riddellwhich will probably work even worse than teamspeak09:03
Riddellok, see you all on Saturday for an early start on Sunday (last bus to google at 08:30 as a remember, so anyone late is in trouble)09:04
highvoltageRiddell: enjoy!09:04
imbrandonsee yall there09:04
Luresee you09:05
highvoltageimbrandon: I won't make it this time, but will see you at the one after :)09:05
sebasRiddell: Ah, cool.09:05
sebasThe problem is not the technology, btw.09:05
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sebasThe problem is that meetings where 3/4 is physically there and the rest connected with non-pro equipment just don't work well.09:06
Riddellsebas: yep09:07
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sebasSo we're done?09:09
highvoltagesebas: the other problem is that we don't quite know how we'll be connecting, do we?09:09
kwwiiand it does not work on ppc09:10
sebashighvoltage: What do you mean by connecting then?09:10
sebasI suppose you can call in somewhere, like a conference call09:10
highvoltagesebas: yes, that is what earlier announcements said, but will it be ediga? teamspeak? we don't know yet. I'd like to set up before the time and test on my connection.09:11
highvoltagebut there's been little details so far.09:11
Riddellkwwii: twinkle should09:11
Riddellhighvoltage: SIP (twinkle/ekeiga)09:11
kwwiiRiddell: twinkle? guess I'll look into that when I get there :-)09:12
kwwiihaving so many devs around with ppc's should make it easier :p09:13
kwwiiRiddell: one last question: do specs normally roll-over from one release to another?09:22
=== sebas leaves
sebasCheers everyone!09:23
kwwiibye sebas09:23
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highvoltageRiddell: ah, cool. thanks.09:24
Riddellkwwii: you need to re-register them for the summit09:25
kwwiiRiddell: the thing is this...for edgy we had several specs for artwork, with both ubuntu and kubuntu in one spec. wondering how to go about seperating them09:27
Riddellkwwii: just make new ones, call them kubuntu-feisty-artwork-boot etc09:28
kwwiiI guess I should just add new ones for kubuntu-feisty-artwork-* and let them do the work when they change theirs09:28
Riddellkwwii: it's not even clear what ubuntu artists are coming yet09:29
kwwiiI thought mark might invite trae to come, since he sent an email saying he was interested09:30
kwwiitrae sent an email, I mean09:30
kwwiibut anyway...09:30
kwwiithanks for the info09:30
kwwiiI will start making wiki pages and specs09:30
kwwiibtw. I will also update the "standard official" kubuntu logo on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuArtwork soon09:32
kwwiiJane sent me colors a long time ago...guess we should update that too (just saw it when I stumbled through the wiki)09:32
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Nov 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 Nov 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Nov 16:00 UTC: LoCo Team
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