=== AdamBagnall [n=adam@cpc3-rdng4-0-0-cust150.winn.cable.ntl.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === dthacke1 [n=dthacker@63.174.225.174] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Technical Board === stelis [n=se@82-71-4-26.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Ju [n=Ju@cpe-76-168-15-151.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === terrex [n=terrex@84-122-63-17.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgwork [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Huahua [n=hua_@123.49.237.247] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8229.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8229.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B16CE.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@c-67-180-20-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dous [i=dous@ubuntu/member/dous] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo__ [n=slomo@dslb-084-061-134-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Express [n=chris__3@83.152.239.24] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gnomefre1k [n=gnomefre@adsl-221-127-80.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lloydinho_ [n=andreas@host-81-191-164-121.bluecom.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === digitalmouse [n=digitalm@p5481FDA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:34] greetings programs! :) === dous [i=dous@ubuntu/member/dous] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === antinobody [n=sean@host-245-245.resnet.pdx.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === stgraber [i=stgraber@unaffiliated/stgraber] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Czubek [n=Damian@82.160.179.10] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === digitalmouse [n=digitalm@p5481FDA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === glukerz [n=glukerz@81-203-43-151.user.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DBO [n=DBO@unaffiliated/dbo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lloydinho_ [n=andreas@205.80-202-169.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Huahua [n=hua_@123.49.236.214] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:27] hi jsgotangco === finalbeta_ [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=jonathan@196.1.61.16] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pips1 [n=philipp@231-83.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Technical Board === DeadlyTiga [n=andi@p549B18E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:59] @schedule [12:59] Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 20:00: Technical Board [01:00] hi [01:00] good afternoon [01:00] good morning :) === stelis [n=se@82-71-4-26.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:01] hello === willvdl [n=Will@vc-196-207-32-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:01] hi all [01:01] hi === RichEd [n=richard@dsl-241-87-17.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:01] just before we start i just want to say to everyone in edubuntu that i'll be leaving for a while and sort out things at work [01:02] jsgotangco: saw your post to -doc [01:02] jsgotangco: will you be able to make ec meetings at least? [01:02] highvoltage: sure but i was thinking of resigning there as well [01:02] ok [01:02] hello all ... meeting will be starting in 2 minutes ... in the meanwhile, please all take a look at: [01:02] https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu === Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@easyubuntu/docteam/kgoetz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pips1 will miss jsgotangco [01:02] jsgotangco: well, I hope you'll be able to make ec meetings for a while still [01:03] its not like i wont go on irc, i'll just be a passive spectator that's all [01:03] jsgotangco the lurker! [01:03] jsgotangco ? where was the post ? can you send it to me ? [01:04] I'll post that page link again for Kamping_Kaiser : [01:04] https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu [01:04] thankyou [01:04] That will be the basis for most of our meeting today. [01:04] We will need to look at the user requests, and match against the specs recorded ... [01:05] RichEd: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-November/007280.html [01:05] And then see what is missing that we need to add to specs === ajmitch should drag himself along to 1 or 2 of those spec sessions [01:05] especially the network-auth stuff [01:05] I myself will need some technical help with the matching :) === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === RichEd is back in 2 mins ... quick restroom break [01:06] jsgotangco: how long do you think you'll be away for? do you have an idea how long it would take to finish doing the block of work that you're taking on? [01:07] highvoltage: i plan to take a rest the whole of feisty and just be a user then come back on feisty+1 [01:07] ah, ok [01:08] i'd still do some stuff though but not so much involved [01:08] so roughly 5-6 months [01:08] RichEd: how much overlap is there in some of those specs? [01:08] eg edubuntu-network-auth-server and easy-ldap-server, or edubuntu-network-auth-client & network-authentication [01:08] highvoltage: i felt i haven't been that much effective lately so i'll take a rest on that and focus [01:08] ajmitch, we dont know - i finished colating them 10 minutes ago [01:09] mabye 15 [01:09] ajmitch: not sure, we can talk them through ? [01:09] ajmitch: I believe the current list is just a summary of different suggestions that have come up, the list itself still needs to be refined and cleaned up [01:09] ==== okay everyone ready ==== [01:10] === meeting discussion doc: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu === [01:10] all do a quick refresh ... I neatened / fixed the bullets [01:10] RichEd: ok, I think we can probably reduce the duplication [01:10] I've subscribed to all the auth-related ones for mtv [01:11] dude === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] [01:11] someone added about four pages of information in the last 30 seconds :D [01:11] great ... I'll add comments to the wiki doc as we work through in the meeting, and we can clarify ... [01:11] rodarvus: heh ok :) [01:11] rodarvus: mostly cut & pastes from the users emails ... quite a lot of overlap we will be able to knock out [01:12] *nods* [01:12] right ... can I ask you all to scroll to: [01:12] General Existing Request [01:13] Dynamic Menus <- this is already being worked on by LaserJock ... the ability to be able to switch desktop menus ... I think it is significant for teachers in a mixed audience environment [01:14] So I would like to add my personal priority support for this one. [01:14] I'll make sure it is up for a UDS discussion topic === dous [i=dous@124.107.248.204] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:14] The next 2 items: [01:14] # [01:14] Edubuntu "bundle" for Seconday Schools [01:14] # [01:14] Edubuntu "bundle" for Universities [01:15] This will largely be: [01:15] "ltsp-fat-clients" duplication on discussion doc [01:15] presumably this maps to the CD pack debate? [01:15] fernando, theres probably a block of 5 that are duped - i double pasted === Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:16] willvdl: yep that will be more in the *how* but let's talk about the requirement first [01:16] 1. a different desktop menu [01:16] 2. different base install applications [01:16] -- === Linuturk [n=Linuturk@12.11.93.98] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:16] Can someone give me guidance on who selects the menu and base install applications ? [01:17] its called seeds [01:17] techboard does that [01:17] it would be nice to have LaserJock here to complement the default explanation with his work [01:17] as well as -desktop === Linuturk [n=Linuturk@12.11.93.98] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] [01:17] jsgotangco: does techboard do this across Ubuntu and Edubuntu ? [01:17] but as jsgotangco says yes, this is done on a per-distro basis (ubuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu and kubuntu) [01:18] the preseeds usually just selects the -desktop package, and then the -desktop package is dependent on all the programs that should be installed. [01:18] the techboard gives recommendation on what each distro should have [01:18] jsgotangco, does that mean 'tech bord do in asociation with edubuntu', or 'they say what edubuntu gets'? [01:18] RichEd: depends on the seeds [01:18] at the moment ogra maintains edubuntu-desktop, afaik [01:18] Kamping_Kaiser: depends on the seed management [01:18] but we (edubuntu core devs) have a reasonable free hand on what we add to our 'seeds' [01:18] and how early does this get fixed in the spec process ? [01:18] ok [01:18] and ogra has chosen not to add to Edubuntu stuff that was added to Ubuntu in the past [01:18] (for space restrictions, mainly) [01:19] Do we have to have this list of applications completed by the end of UDS, or is there time to add to them ? [01:19] so, I'd say techboard gives the direction on the 'skeleton' packaegs that *must* be present. We (Edubuntu) have a free hand to chose the rest. [01:19] you don't have to decide during the sprint [01:19] I believe there's time after UDS to finalise specs & even propose more [01:19] but you can raise to the techboard during the sprint that you'd like this [01:20] we'll have plenty of weeks after UDS to chose what packages we want, but its nice to have something done on this regard, during the week [01:21] Right, so can we suggest what "dicsussion topic" we can create to cover this ... something like: "mutiple edubuntu 'editions" and how to cope with them" [01:21] sub-topics [01:21] - space considerations [01:21] - application considerations [01:21] RichEd, right. [01:21] - when we need the final list [01:21] correct [01:21] I can add a feature for this [01:21] and we can ask mdz to mark it as essential or at least high priority [01:21] - what testing needs to be done [01:21] (your feedback on this will make sure it gets prioritized correctly ;) ) [01:22] - what licence checking needs to be done [01:22] RichEd: there's also packaging. software that ships with edubuntu has to be in main as well, afaiu [01:23] highvoltage: noted ... main / universe / multi-verse etc needs to be part of the discussion [01:23] okay ... I'll make a topic based on the above ... I will do it on the wiki page first, and then register it in launchpad [01:23] moving on to the requests now from list subscribers === pips1 finished reading through the UdsMtvEdubuntu page [01:24] Eric Harrison : K12LTSP [01:24] Eric will be at UDS, hosted by Oliver and myself ... and note that David Trask is an educator tagging along with Eric. [01:25] oh great === ian_brasil [n=vern@web3.webfaction.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:25] I wish I could be there to meet them too :) [01:25] Eric is a *significant person to get happy with Edubuntu* [01:25] RichEd, I took notes too. as soon as we're finished with the meeting (and after a few other things) I'll create the spec, and send email to you and mdz [01:26] ok to go ahead with that? [01:26] Eric is great [01:26] rodarvus: fine ... [01:26] :) [01:26] Management issues i.e. [01:26] * [01:26] adding/deleting users [01:26] * [01:26] group management [01:26] * [01:26] different desktop configurations for different groups [01:26] * [01:26] monitoring usage [01:26] * [01:27] Which fearures at the top of the page cover this area ? [01:27] *features [01:28] [different desktop configurations for different groups] this obviously fits into the dynamic menus [01:28] edubuntu-network-auth-server covers some of the user/group management via smbldap [01:28] as does nis-ldap-migration? [01:28] yeah [01:28] okay ... and ltsp-management-gui ? [01:28] direectory services team has been busy writing up some stuff [01:29] and easy-ldap-server? [01:29] yes [01:29] RichEd, what day do you plan to arrive in the US? [01:29] I'm not sure if we want to try & resolve overlap now or at UDS [01:30] ajmitch: I'll dig deeper on those in LP and see what notes people have, and that may clarify [01:30] rodarvus: saturday just after lunch [01:30] ajmitch: are you a directory service team member? [01:31] fernando: yes, I'm fairly involved [01:31] RichEd, Saturday the 4th, or the 11th? (just to make sure :) ) [01:31] since I've got a reasonable chunk of GUI code for client setup [01:31] rodarvus: 4th :) [01:32] okay ... moving on: Remote access [01:32] great!! [01:32] comments ? [01:32] Ubiquitous access to computers in schools is a great thing. [01:32] Ubiquitous access to those computing resources from the kids' homes is even better. [01:33] what sort of remote acccess? [01:33] vpn? [01:33] off site, or 'i see your screen'? [01:33] I'm presuming he is talking about accessing your school work on the school server while on your home PC [01:34] --- it this a reasonable requirement at this stage of our development, given that not all that many of our users will have a PC and internet at home ? [01:34] that's pretty cutting edge [01:34] i mean why can't moodle stack up to something like that [01:34] remote access from home i wouldnt do now. 'teacher sees student screen' i would suport now [01:34] I think in the US, the home PC and cheap internet may be a reasonable chunk of people, but not for the rest of the world [01:35] Okay ... I agree with Kamping_Kaiser [01:35] if its just within the lab its doable [01:35] 'teacher sees student screen' <- are there existing open source tools that will do this, and which will work with Edubuntu ? [01:35] highvoltage ??? [01:35] highvoltage, NetOps! :) [01:35] RichEd: I think it's part of the long term goals for s-c-p [01:36] vnc, nx, stuff like that [01:36] i.e. the question is ... do we need to develop this, or can we bundle an existing application [01:36] jsgotangco: I believe s-c-p will have some kind of vnc integration at some stage === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:36] RichEd: it's being develeped [01:36] its pretty doable as an s-c-p plugin for sure [01:37] pity cbx33 isn't here [01:37] highvoltage: thanks ... but how do we ensure that it is in feisty ? can you pin it down for me ? [01:37] he has some ideas around that [01:38] highvoltage, isn't there some schooltool devel in that arena too? [01:38] RichEd: ogra is looking at some open source nx too, there's a bunch of technical options a tthis stage, but it's impossible for me to give an estimate on timeline, it certainly looks possible for feisty, whether it's plausable would be discussed at the summit [01:38] questions for ignorant me ... I presume this would be expected to work over any networked clients and not just an LTSP setup [01:39] and #2 would anyone see this as being a general ubuntu requirement ? [01:39] willvdl: in schooltool? not that I've seen before. must be very new if there is :) [01:39] it adds up another layer of bandwidth for LTSP already if you use remote access [01:39] i.e. in an iCafe, that would also be useful [01:39] but a typical school lab would like to do that [01:40] RichEd: it should work on full machines too, it might be dependent on installins some additional software on the machine, but that shouldn't be a problem [01:40] sorry, I was reading specs and lost the meaty vnc stuff [01:40] and my #2 what chance is there that Ubuntu people would see a need for this in the general network world ? [01:40] afaik, not only SCP should be able to do it, but it is on the TODO Plans [01:41] would it be useful for a help desk support person where the clients are using Ubuntu on the work desktop ? [01:41] remote access is easily doable on the teachers computer, using vnc [01:41] if I'm not mistaken, there is even a button for this already [01:41] RichEd, remote vision would help for helpdesk [01:41] RichEd: its already used heavily, we just need to integrate it [01:41] the technology is pretty mature [01:41] (which might have been removed just in time for freeze, when cbx33 didn't had the time to finish the feature) [01:41] jsgotangco: bang on the head ... if it exists, we need to provide directions [01:42] like what the others said you have vnc and nx [01:42] and s-c-p integrated [01:42] yep. [01:42] okay ... I'll make a topic for integrated remote access / remote mangement of client workstations [01:42] scp? [01:42] Kamping_Kaiser: student control panel [01:42] Student Control Panel [01:42] we can talk about the current state and future plans at the session [01:43] aaah, thanks [01:43] better call it SCP or s-c-p, so we don't confuse with 'scp' from OpenSSH :) [01:43] thats why i wondered ;) [01:43] ==== moving on ... time is short for the long list ==== [01:43] Wireless/mobile devices: We are seeing more and more "non-desktop" computing devices [01:44] that's rodarvus's area of expertise :) [01:44] rodarvus and I have been chatting with mark around some areas that touch on this ... [01:44] Mark's feeling is that the current level of school child mobile device is not a signficant education tool [01:45] ++ [01:45] I do not think we need to lead here ... more keep our eye on developements, and make sure that people who are heading in this directions themselves consider us for a platform. [01:45] i.e. we will not kick off or champion any projects [01:46] so I'm dropping that one to the bottom of the list [01:46] === [01:46] agreed [01:46] it's also dependent on a mature ubuntu-embedded [01:46] (and work would be too heavy stuff for it to be lead by us) [01:47] there are some field test with mobile devices used in education with students... I read a report somewhere [01:47] highvoltage: and that's just to get the end user device ... then there is formatted content, push server, cost management al that to go through before the first useful lesson is delivered ! [01:47] on our side we've been looking at the gumstix [01:47] but on the server side [01:48] RichEd: indeed :) [01:48] === moving on === [01:48] Web-based applications: Applications such as Moodle are in high demand [01:48] true [01:48] LAMS [01:49] This topic has been raised before ... can someone give me comments on that is practically being suggested ? Bundling Moodle functionality into Edubuntu ? [01:49] on *what is [01:49] LAMS is pretty cutting edge but has a logical workflow [01:49] whas in demand - what moodle provides, or web based apps? [01:50] but Moodle functionality is relative to how one uses it [01:50] LAMs is a partner that we need to get close to ... but as I understand it ... this would all run in a web browser ? Please correct me if I am wrong. [01:50] Same for moodle based information sites ? [01:50] yes [01:50] not only moodle, but schooltool, library packages, SAMS and the like [01:51] So is there a need for us to develop or integrate anything ? That is the part I am not sure about [01:51] well [01:51] you're already have schooltool [01:51] packaging moodle has been a target before [01:51] the schooltool bundled with edubuntu is very limited though [01:52] choosing one thing and shifting it into main, and leaving other stuff in universe but available makes sense - i just cant offer an option on what to select wehre [01:52] yes [01:52] ^^ jsgotangco: that is what I meant by previous discussions ... what would packaging entail ? [01:52] Kamping_Kaiser: it also gives the software a change to be widely tested before it becomes supported [01:52] wouldn't moodle be like any other application ? [01:52] yse, true [01:52] s/change/chance [01:53] RichEd: well as a webapp, it has its usual dependencies [01:53] you're basically running a webserver [01:53] The way I see the Moodle / LAMS / insert-your-edu-web-application-here situation is: the management issues will be crucial for their adoption.. If it is easy to setup (by a.) lab admins and b.) teachers ) and use (by teachers and students), it will be used. However, a big problem is the whole unresolved/non-integrated "identity management" issue (Authentication, User/Groups Management) [01:53] at the edubuntu summit, php was an issue. lots of ubuntu developers felt that php should not be included in any ubuntu CD [01:54] and moodle and mediawiki depends on php, so it was a big issue. [01:54] should something as big as moode+depends be on the cd though? [01:54] i thougth it was pretty chunky addition [01:55] so ... in our thinking we have been bouncing around about "approved official ubuntu / edubuntu space" and the planned "end user unofficial ubuntu and education space" would it make sense then to slowly bring Moodle and LAMs in from the "recommended by other users" space, and then we can slowly look at moving it towards the ofdicial space ? [01:55] actually, MediaWiki itself was a much bigger problem than PHP [01:56] *official space ? [01:56] PHP has a huge history with security - but its bugs are always plugged in time [01:56] we do support PHP as well [01:56] RichEd: I think that's a great suggestion, when the work has already been 'done' unofficially, it's much easier to bring in officially later on [01:56] but Mediawiki has a history [01:56] i.e. get comments and experiences from people using it, some forum discussions, some "if you8 want to use it here are some recommendations" [01:56] while MediaWiki's recommendation is "upgrade to latest version", which is not practical for linux distributions [01:56] (and much worse for a LTS such as Dapper was) [01:57] RichEd: ++ [01:57] and the web packages in ubuntu goes largely unmaintained, so it's difficult to use [01:57] rodarvus, sounds like moz.corp :( [01:57] for example, drupal in ubuntu is still on 4.5.8-2 [01:57] highvoltage: yes, because we also get an idea of how much the end user community wants the application, and then this can add weight to the later php bunfight [01:57] that's ancient :) [01:57] RichEd: yep [01:58] would up to date versions of these packages help people adpot/trial them? [01:58] okay ... noted ... === moving on again === [01:58] Did anyone understand my point about the non-integrated "user management" above at all? :) [01:58] RichEd: sometimes, these tihngs are better off installed sepeartely by the user for various reasons (maintainability on the distros part, security, etc) [01:59] jsgotangco: agreed ... we have been suggesting a space for suggestions like this ... "you are on your own but you may find this useful" [01:59] anyway, just to be realistic: I don't think any web-apps like Moodle/LAMS/etc. will end up in "main" Feisty [01:59] and if the demand is high, we move towards the official support [02:00] i.e. "a free for all advice space", with a path to upstream, with its usual approvals and hurdles [02:00] RichEd, are you thingking 'external (not packaged) -> packaged (universe) -> packaged (main) ? [02:00] and you say you can use from anyware, and if its more used, it goes closer to main? [02:01] Kamping_Kaiser: I think that is how it should ideally work [02:01] Kamping_Kaiser: yes, with one more step ... the space will say clearly that this is NOT official ubuntu / edubuntu policy or approved ... for example ... === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@202.183.115.122] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pips1 notes 1 hour passed [02:02] There are some applications that people pay for, but which they find value for money, but which would phreak out the hard core FOSS crowd. We still want to be able to make our users aware of what is being used, and they can make their own decisions. [02:02] RichEd: well we can say we don't package this, but we provide instructions on how to do this in edubuntu when you download tar.gz from blah === flint [n=flint@71-80-45-220.dhcp.davl.vt.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:03] RichEd: when you are restructuring that UdsMtvEdubuntu page, I suggest you try to think along the following lines: Requirements [02:03] A. Users Viewpoint [02:03] B. Technical Viewpoint (*buntu Implementation/Developers) [02:03] noted pips1 === DeadlyTiga [n=andi@p549B18E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:04] ===== time flows === we move on === [02:04] Flawless, easy support for Linux servers supporting Mac and Windows clients. === ajmitch wanders off to sleep - fire off any questions about network auth stuff to the ubuntu-directory list if you wish [02:04] Flawless, easy support for Linux clients/servers in Mac and/or Windows centric environments. [02:04] RichEd, speaking of time, just converted to daylight savings... [02:04] --> I see these as fitting into and being covered by the network auth topic ? [02:04] in what way does the linux server have to support rthe client? (perhaps i should be thinking big here?) [02:05] RichEd, not really, I think [02:05] it is the other way around [02:05] (but can be dependant on network-authentication) [02:06] Kamping_Kaiser: I guess authenticating a Win W/S Mac OS against the user base [02:06] like an active directory? [02:06] Sharing server storage space, authentication to get out of firewall ? [02:06] my vote for this one is: its important, but not *really* Edubuntu specific, *and* dependant on network-authentication [02:07] this is soo out of touch === willvdl [n=Will@vc-196-207-32-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:07] and way out of edubuntu's core competencies [02:07] jsgotangco: I think he means in reverse of AD ... i.e. not our Edubuntu w/s authenticating against AD, but other clients authenticating against our logins [02:07] rodarvus, you make a good point about not edubuntu specific... [02:07] so, would this be a topic that would interest Ubuntu ? [02:08] I also believe its a time consuming task. anyone cares enough for it to volunteer doing it in feisty timeframe? [02:08] I am able to help tutoring the developer in question, if there are takers for it. [02:08] hackish [02:08] RichEd, yeah [02:08] i.e. if you have an entire Ubuntu network, and the damn DTP / graphics department insists on using Macs, how do they fit into the network ? [02:09] RichEd, we had macs booting off LTSP at NELS. [02:09] flint: that's different to authentication [02:09] the questions more about auth isnt it? [02:09] flint, but wasn't that Macs running *buntu, not MacOS [02:09] RichEd, indeed it was... [02:09] Well I can create a feature topic, and we can see if anyone else subscribes ? If it dies, it dies. [02:10] Note that this may also be being worked on by 3rd party util developers or even debian or other FOSS people. [02:10] indeed [02:11] They way I see it. All lot of the Requirements listed on the wiki page touch on lots of stuff that isn't Edubuntu-specific, but *buntu. Looking at it from the Distribution-Viewpoint, I suggest the following categories: Technical Viewpoint [02:11] 0. "Bundling" (meta topic) [02:11] 1. Hardware/Device support (big overlap "Ubuntu-base" <-> Edubuntu) [02:11] 2. Networking (big overlap "Ubuntu-base" <-> Edubuntu) [02:11] 3. Applications (some overlap) [02:11] So it is not necessarily our problem to solve. If the real world demand is that high, someone will be looking at it [02:11] 4. Content (some overlap, mainly Tech Doc) [02:11] Fedora has a tool for this, but its not automatic stuff [02:11] (and this tool can not be used on Ubuntu, at least not easily) [02:11] RichEd, I got here late, but has anyone addressed the Schools Interoperability Framework (SIF) as part of our goals? [02:12] flint: no [02:12] flint, give me one min on that ... === jeang [n=jeang@dsl-242-164-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:12] pips1: 100% this is first pass discussion ... that page should shrink and refine over the next day or two, and again on Saturday when yourself and myself and ogra and rodarvus are in the same room. [02:12] RichEd, I try to keep things entertaining :^) [02:12] RichEd: how will outside participation work? [02:12] so pips1 your comment and structuring is right time at right place [02:12] goo question [02:13] highvoltage: that is the last topic ... we can fix the agenda to get there in 30 mins to give us 15 mins on that issue alone [02:13] flint: SIF is big in US, but not really on the map anywhere outside US, afaik [02:14] ok [02:14] flint, I imagine that falls more into application space (schooltool etc) [02:14] flint: Tom Hoffman has been working on OpenZIS and SIF and has built a demo ... he has been chatting to myself ans Steve Midgely [02:14] *and === jeang [n=jeang@dsl-242-164-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [02:14] pips1, ah sort of like SAE in mechanical areas... [02:14] That is a big issue for Tom and Steve, but not so big for us (as per above comments) [02:15] I am sure Tom would be thrilled to have you in his loop ? [02:15] RichEd, The idea of supporting services in this SIF framework seems worth proposing, merely that [02:15] Shall I send an email linking you ? [02:15] RichEd, I am quite fond of Tom, and meet with him as regularly as possible. [02:15] flint: perhaps you could have the broad discussion with him, and be our bridge ? [02:16] flint and the late joiners see here:https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu [02:16] RichEd, Have you had a chance to set down with Tom at any of these conferences? [02:17] we are on the last section under Eric Harrison [02:17] i'm sorry all, but i need to go sleep time :( good luck with the meeting, i'll try and find out what happened tomorrow :) [02:17] flint ... IRC and skype is the sum total of my interaction with him to date === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:17] Kamping_Kaiser: thanks for your help :) check he wiki page tomorrow for refinement [02:17] Right === moving on === [02:17] My personal items of interest align with the LTSP developer goals: [02:18] Complete the LTSP work we started in Detroit. [02:18] Help Ogra with his LTSP management utility [02:18] Local application support [02:18] Improved sound support [02:18] (not me, eric :) [02:18] I think these are all covered ??? === Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@easyubuntu/docteam/kgoetz] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["sleep] [02:18] what does he mean by Ogra with his LTSP management utility? is that s-c-p or what? [02:19] pips1: ltsp-management-gui [02:19] thanks [02:19] https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-management-gui [02:20] === Franois BARILLON === [02:20] * users-groups management [02:20] * creating 50 or more students at a time [02:20] * putting them into groups-classes [02:20] * managing passwords [02:21] * creating common folders [02:21] * sending a file to an entire group [02:21] --> is this an area of ours, or schooltool ? [02:21] highvoltage: ? [02:21] hmmm [02:21] well, [02:21] its something ubuntu can benefit [02:22] its pretty much user management [02:22] there needs to be some kind of interface in-between *ubuntu user/group management and schooltool's [02:22] I was just thinking that ... ubuntu and a large office network [02:22] RichEd, the line between Schooltool and Edubuntu LTSP is somewhat grey. [02:22] yes RichEd? [02:22] comment on the above ? [02:23] I think it's also a case of 'most of the tools already exist' and it just needs to be brought together [02:23] that's what I was talking about earlier: integration of Webapplications (Schooltool, Moodle, .. ) and the Desktop is non-existing [02:23] Based upon this I will add a comment that examining the user XML in the SIF could yield profitable result. [02:24] pips1, how would they integrate anyway? [02:24] ubuntu already has users/groups, and a user admin tool, common folders isn't difficult, but a management tool for this would have huge value to the end user teacher [02:24] well can I suggest that we look at ubuntu group management from one end, and start "unofficial guidelines on usage of SchoolTool" from the other end, and see where they meet or overlap towards feisty+1 [02:24] The most commenly used "bridge" I know of is LDAP directories (OpenLDAP, but also proprietary ones like AD, etc.) [02:24] this just involves a lot of scripts that needs a front end [02:24] ltsp-mangement-gui have a ldap integration? [02:25]