[01:12] <Nafallo> hi! ubuntu-sru is the correct team to subscribe for edgy-updates uploads, right? :-)
[01:12] <ajmitch> no
[01:13] <Nafallo> oh?
[01:13] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:13] <bhale> Nafallo: read StableReleaseUpdates
[01:13] <Nafallo> bddebian: hi there :-)
[01:13] <bhale> Nafallo: kthx
[01:13] <bddebian> Heya Nafallo
[01:14] <Nafallo> hmm, what's that SRU-team for then? :-)
[01:14] <ajmitch> there is no ubuntu-sru team
[01:15] <Nafallo> motu-sru even
[01:15] <ajmitch> that's for the *proposed* policy for universe, which we're discussing on the list
[01:16] <Nafallo> aha.
[01:16] <Nafallo> I have a backlog for mail so... :-/
[01:17] <bddebian> '
[01:17] <ajmitch> I'm surprised you filed bugs against 2.6.19
[01:18] <Nafallo> yea, I should have read the topic first.
[01:18] <Nafallo> I'm back on 2.6.17 now :-P
[01:27] <imbrandon> ajmitch, so did gnash look sane to you for upload when feisty opens ?
[01:28] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea, I haven't really checked it
[01:28] <imbrandon> hehe ok
[01:29] <imbrandon> i think i just started a flame-ish war in the kubuntu world
[01:29] <imbrandon> ( not intentionaly )
[01:30] <ajmitch> well done
[01:30] <imbrandon> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-koffice-by-default
[01:31] <ajmitch> the 28th "-by-defult" spec..
[01:31] <imbrandon> heh
[01:31] <ajmitch> seems to be the new thing to name them
[01:32] <ajmitch> already accepted as a release goal, that's useful
[01:32] <imbrandon> yea mdz approved it
[01:33] <ajmitch> we need to get some of our directory specs approved as goals
[01:33] <imbrandon> a few minutes ago ( was suprised )
[01:37] <imbrandon> freeflying, you get irssi working on gobstopper? or just using ircII
[01:38] <freeflying> imbrandon: i'm using konversation  :)
[01:38] <imbrandon> hrm how are you connecting from gobstopper then ?
[01:38] <imbrandon> [18:36]  --> freeflying has joined this channel (i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com).
[01:39] <freeflying> imbrandon: ssh-tunnel
[01:39] <imbrandon> ahh
[01:39] <freeflying> :)
[01:41] <ajmitch> hm, I wonder if I should learn the python kde bindings
[01:41] <ajmitch> I guess I can see if I'll have time
[01:41] <imbrandon> yes, come to the dark side
[01:41] <ajmitch> more that I'd write both a gtk+ & a qt frontend
[01:41] <imbrandon> true
[01:42] <ajmitch> so that we don't cut out kubuntu from the network auth config stuff
[01:42] <TheMuso> imbrandon: I thought one couldn't use dreamhost to run IRC stuff.
[01:42] <ajmitch> TheMuso: probably port 8001
[01:43] <imbrandon> TheMuso, well aparently freeflying is ( he has a ssh account on my server heheh )
[01:43] <TheMuso> Right.
[01:44] <imbrandon> and they have ircII installed but i dont like it, i tried to compile irssi but it dosent have the required perl modules
[01:44] <imbrandon> soooo i would have to compile perl too
[01:44] <TheMuso> That sucks.
[01:44] <imbrandon> and that was too much for my taste
[01:44] <TheMuso> But they have compilers on the servers?
[01:44] <TheMuso> Wow.
[01:44] <imbrandon> yea
[01:45] <imbrandon> and its allowed
[01:45] <TheMuso> Wow.
[01:45] <imbrandon> you just have to watch your cpu hours
[01:45] <TheMuso> Which you'd have to do if you are running IRC stuff anyway.
[01:45] <imbrandon> only 60 cpu hours a week are allowed or you get charged
[01:46] <ajmitch> hm, irssi has been running for a few months on my box
[01:46] <imbrandon> about the only thing dh dosent allow is bittorrent trackers
[01:46] <imbrandon> other than that its pretty much anything go's
[01:47] <TheMuso> They probably wouldn't allow streaming servers either. :)
[01:47] <imbrandon> they even have howtos for compiling and installing other python versions than what they have installed incase your site needs a diff version
[01:47] <TheMuso> Wow.
[01:47] <imbrandon> yea they alloow streaming servers
[01:47] <Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
[01:48] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Like icecast etc? WHy not just install them for us?
[01:48] <imbrandon> i have an iceccast and darwin streaming server running on imbrandon.com
[01:48] <TheMuso> imbrandon: And how do you know this?
[01:48] <imbrandon> the dreamhost wiki :)
[01:48] <TheMuso> Ok.
[01:48] <ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
[01:48] <imbrandon> the darwin streaming server can be installed for you from the control pannel
[01:49] <TheMuso> Whats the darwin streaming server?
[01:49] <imbrandon> apples streaming server for quicktime
[01:49] <imbrandon> mov's rtsp:// etc
[01:49] <TheMuso> yuck
[01:50] <TheMuso> I'd rather use icecast.
[01:50] <TheMuso> Nothing on their wiki about that.,
[01:50] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, TheMuso, imbrandon
[01:50] <imbrandon> yea there is no howto for it on the wiki
[01:50] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[01:50] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[01:50] <imbrandon> you just compile and install it in your home dir
[02:05] <LaserJock> hmm, my department server is running Debian stable
[02:07] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why?
[02:07] <Fujitsu> Nobody needs a stable server.
[02:07] <LaserJock> well, it got fried
[02:08] <LaserJock> it *was* running Suse 9.1 I think
[02:08] <Fujitsu> Urgh, anything's better than that.
[02:08] <LaserJock> well, I think it's even different hardware
[02:09] <ajmitch> what's wrong with running sarge?
[02:09] <Fujitsu> Good, you wouldn't want to run anything on a box which has been tainted by SuSE.
[02:09] <LaserJock> well, my problem is right now that mutt has weird characters
[02:09] <bhale> dapper is alright
[02:09] <ajmitch> ah that fun
[02:10] <LaserJock> I personally would love to have a Debian/Ubuntu server at work
[02:10] <ajmitch> you're too used to having UTF-8 enabled
[02:10] <LaserJock> right
[02:10] <LaserJock> can I turn it on for just me?
[02:10] <ajmitch> probably not
[02:10] <LaserJock> darn
[02:10] <ajmitch> I don't know
[02:10] <Fujitsu> UTF-8 was only enabled in Hoary, AFAIK, so Sarge won't have it.
[02:11] <Fujitsu> (global UTF-8 support, that is)
[02:12] <ajmitch> I wonder if we can kill off some of these specs
[02:12] <ajmitch> many of which will just sit & rot & clutter up launchpad
[02:12] <Fujitsu> Is there even a Rejected state for them?
[02:13] <ajmitch> yes
[02:13] <Fujitsu> Because there's a lot of clutter and random crap there.
[02:13] <ajmitch> though the display of the 'not for us' is broken
[02:14] <LaserJock> ack, what would I change it to for en_US ? en_US or iso-8859-1 ?
[02:14] <ajmitch> en_US.UTF-8
[02:14] <ajmitch> if the locale is there
[02:14] <Fujitsu> ISO-8859-1 should be approximately the same as en_US.
[02:15] <minghua> LaserJock: first use "locale -a" to check
[02:16] <minghua> LaserJock: if en_US.UTF-8 is there, set it to that; otherwise set to en_US (which uses iso-8859-1)
[02:16] <minghua> Fujitsu: s/approximately//
[02:17] <LaserJock> minghua: sweet, I set set charset="en_US" in muttrc and it's all good
[02:18] <minghua> LaserJock: yeah, that means you are currently using en_US locale
[02:19] <zul> why not
[02:19] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: nope, but you can process mine, thanks!
[02:19] <imbrandon> ajmitch, sure, you started the ball rolling :)
[02:20] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: no I can't
[02:20] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it's more a case of picking names
[02:20] <imbrandon> ajmitch,  yea , thats what i said in my last email
[02:20] <imbrandon> heh
[02:20] <LaserJock> did anybody get my "MOTU Todo" email?
[02:21] <ajmitch> which I haven't seen
[02:21] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yup
[02:21] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes.
[02:21] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, we got your mail of your glorious ideas
[02:21] <LaserJock> ok, my email is so screwy these day
[02:21] <LaserJock> ajmitch: haha
[02:21] <LaserJock> well, I'm sending from different servers
[02:21] <LaserJock> with different addresses
[02:21] <LaserJock> sometimes things don't go right
[02:22] <imbrandon> hrm i got the email
[02:22] <imbrandon> but it dident show on the web list
[02:22] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I didn't get it
[02:23] <imbrandon> hrm yea i just looked at the web archive
[02:23] <imbrandon> its not htere
[02:23] <imbrandon> but i have it in my inbox :(
[02:24] <imbrandon> timestamped 20 minutes before laserjocks email
[02:24] <ajmitch> how unfortunate
[02:24] <ajmitch> it's a sign
[02:24] <imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss114.png
[02:25] <imbrandon> even says it from the list in the headers :(
[02:25] <imbrandon> wth
[02:26] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I got that one.
[02:26] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29638/
[02:26] <imbrandon> is the contents
[02:26] <imbrandon> dunno why its not showing up to everyone
[02:28] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I got it
[02:28] <bddebian> Damn, NWN2 was supposed to ship today..
[02:29] <Fujitsu> NWN2 == ?
[02:29] <bddebian> Never Winter Nights
[02:29] <imbrandon> bddebian, dont tell me that i was addicted to NWN for months :)
[02:29] <bddebian> imbrandon: Me too :-)
[02:29] <imbrandon> hehe
[02:29] <bddebian> I used to run an NWN server on a Debian server ;-)
[02:30] <imbrandon> yea me too
[02:30] <imbrandon> i still have all the scripts somewhere
[02:30] <imbrandon> man
[02:30] <imbrandon> bddebian, we're gonna have to get a NWN2 server going :)
[02:30] <LaserJock> oh geeze
[02:30] <jsgotangco> wooo count me in
[02:30] <Fujitsu> It runs on Linux, does it?
[02:31] <bddebian> Hey, we can make that the goal for the Ubuntu Games Server ;-)
[02:31] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea its one of the few 3d games designed for linux too
[02:31] <Fujitsu> Wow.
[02:31] <bddebian> But it is "non-free"
[02:31] <imbrandon> yea i payed $75 for the client
[02:31] <LaserJock> if it was America's Army I'd be impressed
[02:31] <bddebian> pfft
[02:32] <bddebian> Though I did like Call of Duty I and II :-)
[02:32] <imbrandon> how much is NWN2 ?
[02:32] <Burgwork> imbrandon: paid, please
[02:32] <imbrandon> Burgwork, yea i'm lazy on IRC
[02:32] <bddebian> $75?? WTF?
[02:32] <ajmitch> IRC is no excuse
[02:32] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: people who play that are all flash, no brains
[02:32] <imbrandon> bddebian, i bought the collectors edition with the maps t-shirt and stuff
[02:33] <bddebian> Ahhh
[02:33] <Amaranth> The most I ever payed for a game is $40. :P
[02:33] <Fujitsu> The most I ever payed for a game is...
[02:34] <Fujitsu> Can't say I've ever played a non-free (as in beer) game.
[02:34] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: you play what? America's Army?
[02:34] <imbrandon> NWN and UO
[02:34] <imbrandon> :)
[02:34] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: grr, who play what? I meant
[02:34] <bddebian> Morrowind (and eventually Oblivion) ;-)
[02:35] <LaserJock> America's Army and Unreal Tournament 2004 are the only games I've really ever played much
[02:36] <LaserJock> we had my lab set up as a UT2004 lan server
[02:36] <LaserJock> we had every machine in the lab playing
[02:36] <LaserJock> it was fun
[02:36] <imbrandon> lol
[02:37] <imbrandon> man i dont know where my NWN cd's are, thats probably a good thing
[02:37] <bddebian> Who needs them with NWN2 coming? ;-P
[02:37] <imbrandon> heh
[02:39] <imbrandon> i hope you can make each of the areas bigger in NWN2
[02:40] <Fujitsu> GOES!
[02:40] <imbrandon> we tried to recreate a UO map in NWN and it was too small
[02:42] <bddebian> heh
[02:43] <bddebian> http://www.nwn2.com  You have to watch the trailer if you can, it's pretty cool
[02:43] <jsgotangco> the problem is, im pretty much addicted to anything pocket at the moment, i just bought clubhouse games for the DS
[02:44] <imbrandon> bddebian, yea i just did, looks great
[02:44] <bddebian> jsgotangco: My old eyes are too tired for something that small :-)
[02:46] <micahcowan> bddebian, trailer looks very nice, but gives me no clue about how the game's gonna be...
[02:46] <LaserJock> hmm, I've just never gotten into RPGs
[02:47] <micahcowan> I love RPGs, but I'm not into the truly random (dice-based-like) fighting. Like NWN.
[02:47] <bddebian> WTF?  You're not allowed into the Geek club then ;-P
[02:48] <LaserJock> bddebian: no, I'm a chemist so I'm in the Nerd Club technically
[02:48] <bddebian> hehe
[02:48] <bddebian> micahcowan: There are some gameplay shots on gamespot.com
[02:48] <zul> micahcowan: so no dungeons and dragons?
[02:49] <LaserJock> nerds shun geeks and their obsession with fantasy and Star Trek conventions
[02:49] <LaserJock> ;-)
[02:49] <micahcowan> there're some gameplay shots on atari.com's site, too.
[02:49] <bddebian> Well, the original anyway
[02:49] <jsgotangco> ugghhh
[02:49] <micahcowan> zul, not most of the D&D /videogames/, no. And, unfortunately, when D&D was really big and I would've had more opportunity to get into it, my fundy parents wouldn't let me even think of it. :)
[02:50] <micahcowan> I think I'd really enjoy the actual pen-and-paper ones, provided it was a good team.
[02:50] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: im thinking of getting one of those mindstorms NXT toys
[02:51] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: what the heck is that?
[02:52] <jsgotangco> http://mindstorms.lego.com/Overview/
[02:52] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:52] <zul> micahcowan: pitty
[02:52] <bddebian> whoa
[02:52] <micahcowan> yeah :(
[02:52] <jsgotangco> yeah i grew up with them
[02:53] <jsgotangco> it has a 32bit arm7
[02:53] <micahcowan> I had a MERP set (Middle Earth Role Playing, based on ICE rules), but my parents got rid of that when they discovered the "Channeling" branch of magic
[02:54] <zul> my wife has a whole shitload of lego in the basement
[02:54] <zul> playmobil was fun as a kid
[02:55] <bddebian> Weebles man, weebles ;-P
[02:56] <imbrandon> lol
[02:57] <imbrandon> tinker toys and lincon logs
[02:58] <bddebian> And Erector sets, ROCK ON ;-P
[02:58] <Fujitsu> Hahah, yes.
[02:58] <imbrandon> lol yea
[02:58] <bddebian> We need more sharp metal toys these days! ;-P
[02:58] <imbrandon> with small screws and bolts
[02:58] <imbrandon> survival of the fittest ?
[02:58] <Burgwork> imbrandon: https://launchpad.net/people/mythtv-dev/+members <-- your team shoudl include ubuntu- in the same
[02:59] <Burgwork> imbrandon: otherwise you are polluting the namespace of LP
[02:59] <imbrandon> umm thats not my team, but sure
[02:59] <imbrandon> ohh i did get added
[02:59] <imbrandon> ok
[03:00] <Burgwork> I had this argument with the telepathy team as well
[03:00] <lifeless> chill out :)
[03:01] <LaserJock> unless they want to work on mythtv in general
[03:01] <Burgwork> lifeless: given LP is more than just ubuntu...
[03:01] <Fujitsu> Burgwork: Not by much.
[03:02] <Burgwork> regardless, we shouldn't shit all over the default namespace just cause we can
[03:02] <Fujitsu> Of course.
[03:02] <imbrandon> sure, but i doubt it was intentional "shitting" on it as there is no written guideline
[03:02] <imbrandon> :)
[03:02] <Burgwork> I suspect not
[03:03] <jsgotangco> chill
[03:03] <imbrandon> its all good jsgotangco
[03:03] <imbrandon> no ones is riled up that i can tell
[03:04] <Burgwork> hmm, the fun with text communication
[03:04] <Burgwork> I am not annoyed, but both jsgotangco and lifeless assumed that
[03:04] <imbrandon> anyhow Burgwork its a new team made by superm1 sugested by jono, so it can be changed easy tomarrow :)
[03:04] <ajmitch> imbrandon: did your mail appear in the archive?
[03:04] <Burgwork> imbrandon: yep, figured that is why I would get it quickly
[03:04] <imbrandon> ajmitch, i dident check again
[03:05] <imbrandon> Burgwork, but i would write something up if you really feel strongly as i'm sure you dont have the time to police all new teams created
[03:05] <Burgwork> I will blog about it
[03:05] <imbrandon> ( not sarcasim , just a thought )
[03:05] <ajmitch> imbrandon: ah, it's on gmane
[03:05] <imbrandon> i wonder why the weirdness ajmitch
[03:05] <ajmitch> why does everyone feel the need to nominate 95% of the active MOTUs?
[03:06] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, and LaserJock said they got it too
[03:06] <imbrandon> ajmitch, i just regirgitated those that were already nominated
[03:06] <LaserJock> ajmitch: 95% ?
[03:06] <LaserJock> not hardly :-)
[03:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: maybe 100% then
[03:07] <imbrandon> heh
[03:07] <LaserJock> there are 15 nominations out of 57
[03:07] <ajmitch> I said active
[03:07] <LaserJock> that's 26%
[03:08] <ajmitch> who else is active that you've forgotten to nominate?
[03:08] <LaserJock> I don't think anybody
[03:08] <LaserJock> that was in fact my point
[03:08] <ajmitch> so you really want just any MOTU to approve updates
[03:08] <ajmitch> why don't you state that?
[03:09] <LaserJock> I want to have 5-7 people from the active motus to do it
[03:09] <LaserJock> and another 5-7 for motu-uvf
[03:09] <LaserJock> 10-14 total
[03:09] <LaserJock> which is about what we've got
[03:09] <LaserJock> my main concern is that we seem to always turn to dholbach, slomo, siretart, and crimsun
[03:10] <imbrandon> if you want _my__ nominations i say LaserJock, crimsun, ajmitch, sistopy, bddebian, me, slomo
[03:10] <LaserJock> who are very busy with their own work
[03:10] <ajmitch> suggest that then, instead of nominating the world & not making it clear that you want more than the initial 4 suggested
[03:10] <LaserJock> I just don't feel it's a good idea to keep loading the same people with all the review tasks
[03:10] <imbrandon> LaserJock, right
[03:11] <ajmitch> but dholbach doesn't know that you feel that way
[03:11] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ok i'll send a new mail right now
[03:11] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well I actually didn't think people would accept the nominations
[03:11] <LaserJock> ajmitch: you're right, my email was somewhat flippant.
[03:12] <LaserJock> ajmitch: then don't. I wasn't trying to force people to do it. I just wanted to say "Heh, we have capable people here"
[03:12] <ajmitch> I didn't say you were forcing people to
[03:13] <LaserJock> well, but maybe some might take it that way
[03:13] <LaserJock> I guess I should have been more careful
[03:14] <ajmitch> imbrandon: hobbsee will never forgive you
[03:14] <ajmitch> or LaserJock
[03:14] <ajmitch> neither of you nominated her
[03:14] <LaserJock> well, I thought about it for sure, but I thought she'd be busy with school
[03:14] <ajmitch> nah
[03:14] <ajmitch> she always finds time for MOTU
[03:16] <TheMuso> That she does.
[03:16] <TheMuso> :)
[03:17] <imbrandon> ok new email sent with my thoughts
[03:18] <ajmitch> yay
[03:19] <TheMuso> F*** speakup!
[03:20] <LaserJock> wahoo, I'm out ;-)
[03:20] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ?
[03:20] <imbrandon> tell me if you get this one
[03:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon's new list of nominations
[03:20] <imbrandon> lol
[03:20] <imbrandon> ?
[03:21] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I still haven't got your first one, so I blame my ISP's mail servers again
[03:21] <imbrandon> well it was hobbsee | LaserJock , i made a choice
[03:21] <imbrandon> hehe
[03:21] <LaserJock> good choice
[03:21] <ajmitch> confusing the matter again
[03:22] <imbrandon> ajmitch, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29646/
[03:22] <ajmitch> yay, I'm out too :)
[03:22] <ajmitch> hey bmonty
[03:23] <bmonty> hi ajmitch
[03:23] <imbrandon> well you were in motu-uvf
[03:23] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[03:23] <bmonty> hi LaserJock!
[03:23] <ajmitch> imbrandon: so is siretart, who is very busy with his thesis :)
[03:24] <imbrandon> ahh ok, well i did my part , thus the last line , thoughts , flames .......
[03:24] <imbrandon> :)
[03:25] <imbrandon> i wonder whats up with it, the official archives dont have my first one either but some seem to get it as with
[03:25] <imbrandon> gmaine etc
[03:25] <imbrandon> gmane
[03:27] <imbrandon> probably
[03:27] <imbrandon> i hate choosing
[03:27] <imbrandon> how was the motu-uvf formed?
[03:27] <ajmitch> dholbach picked people
[03:28] <imbrandon> that probably is the way to go then
[03:28] <LaserJock> it doesn't really matter I guess
[03:29] <LaserJock> we might want to get a bit better at doing this stuff quickly
[03:29] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalXConfiguration <--- any other tools I should add to this page?
[03:29] <LaserJock> we've wasted quite a bit of time arguing the fine points of the SRU policy
[03:30] <LaserJock> I'm probably the worst about that :(
[03:30] <bmonty> Burgwork: how about making the use case of adding additional monitors be something more general
[03:30] <ajmitch> "what colour should the bikeshed be?"
[03:30] <Burgwork> bmonty: add more uses cases as needed
[03:30] <imbrandon> Burgwork, looks good, infact i started some sax2 packages a while back as thats a godsend on suse
[03:31] <Burgwork> imbrandon: but does the sax2 code duplicate the new input/output hotplug stuff in xorg?
[03:31] <bmonty> I'll just slightly modify the one you have
[03:31] <imbrandon> Burgwork, not sure
[03:31] <imbrandon> i would have to look
[03:31] <Burgwork> imbrandon: hence the issue. AFAICS, we need a simple dialog
[03:31] <Burgwork> the x people are talking about killing xorg.conf entirely
[03:32] <ajmitch> I think I'll hide from MOTU stuff until UDS :)
[03:32] <LaserJock> imbrandon: interesting, I detested sax2. it was always messing up my X configuration. maybe it was just me
[03:32] <LaserJock> ajmitch: heh
[03:32] <imbrandon> well the one reason i like sax2 over hte others is 1) easy 3d accell enabling and 2) it can use a working X server for display but dosent require one, it will outpout to FB/VESA if needed
[03:33] <Burgwork> I understand
[03:33] <imbrandon> e.g. if X is totaly broke
[03:33] <Burgwork> the latter is solved by the bulletproof-X spec
[03:33] <Burgwork> please see the outstanding issues section
[03:35] <Burgwork> hence why I favour system-config-xfree86
[03:35] <Burgwork> it is bold and simple
[03:35] <imbrandon> well in that case you only have basicly 2 options , 1) write something becosue the existing stuff wont work 2) fix xorg-edit to use qt/gtk
[03:35] <Burgwork> how is that different than what we have now?
[03:36] <imbrandon> right in that case it will be duped in guidance
[03:36] <Burgwork> I am confused by your statement
[03:36] <Burgwork> guidance is qt
[03:36] <imbrandon> right
[03:36] <Burgwork> we need an Ubuntu X config tool
[03:36] <Burgwork> not a Kubuntu one
[03:37] <LaserJock> why would it be DE specific?
[03:37] <LaserJock> that seems sort of odd to me
[03:37] <Burgwork> because QT is not in the default install of Ubuntu
[03:38] <bmonty> Burgwork: I modified the use case to be more general to multiple monitors instead of just two monitors
[03:38] <imbrandon> LaserJock, and because the ubuntu and kubuntu config screens are quite diffrent, you dont want one tool standing out
[03:38] <Burgwork> sounds good
[03:38] <Toadstool> hey there
[03:39] <LaserJock> hmm, I was thinking it would be outside of the Gnome and KDE config systems
[03:39] <Burgwork> LaserJock: Xorg is already starting to deal with autoconfiguration
[03:39] <LaserJock> like for Fluxbox or XFCE people, etc
[03:39] <Burgwork> we need a GUI to drive that
[03:39] <LaserJock> a wxpython GUI is no good?
[03:39] <Burgwork> not in main
[03:39] <Burgwork> nor does it handle QT/KDE
[03:40] <LaserJock> I thought wxwidgets were DE neutral
[03:40] <LaserJock> but nevermind
[03:40] <Burgwork> yes, but is not in main and has security issues
[03:41] <Burgwork> actually, wxwidgets is GTK on LInux, Cocoa on Mac and native on Windows
[03:41] <LaserJock> Tk? :-)
[03:41] <Burgwork> ugh
[03:41] <Burgwork> you cannot be serious
[03:42] <LaserJock> only a little bit
[03:42] <Burgwork> if you insist on Tk, I will make you package this Tcl code my company just threw over the wall... :)
[03:42] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you don't know how much Burgwork loves Tk?
[03:42] <LaserJock> ajmitch: oh, I do
[03:42] <Burgwork> if I ran a desktop of nothing but Tk, I might reconsider
[03:43] <Burgwork> anyway, I need to go home
[03:43] <ajmitch> bye
[03:43] <Burgwork> is 7pm
[03:43] <imbrandon> later
[03:43] <Fujitsu> Bye, Burgwork.
[03:43] <LaserJock> I just think it's kinda silly to have to do both qt and gtk interfaces for something that is DE neutral
[03:44] <LaserJock> but I think that about a lot of things so I'm pretty useless
[03:44] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sad, but that's the way a lot of things are
[03:45] <imbrandon> well i'm kinda confused on why it needs to support qt/kde if its for ubuntu
[03:45] <imbrandon> as he said guidance works for kubuntu
[03:45] <LaserJock> hmm, ok
[03:45] <LaserJock> so sort of the adept route
[03:45] <ajmitch> imbrandon: mainly because it's not fun to support 2 different code bases & feature sets
[03:46] <imbrandon> ajmitch, right but kubuntu is likely to support guidance as its pretty tied into KDE
[03:46] <imbrandon> and all of our other config stuff is in guidance
[03:46] <imbrandon> think gconf
[03:47] <imbrandon> adept is looking for a new dev team anyhow /me sugests ksynaptic be updated personaly
[03:48] <LaserJock> I just use synaptic :/
[03:49] <imbrandon> well ksynaptic is/was part of that project but it is unmaintained now in svn
[03:49] <imbrandon> and so is adept ( mornfall gave it up i guess )
[03:49] <imbrandon> soooo
[03:50] <Fujitsu> Sooo you're stuffed!
[03:51] <imbrandon> basicly
[03:52] <jsgotangco> there is no such thing as stuffed in the pursuit of world domination
[03:53] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i'm actually thinking of retiring for a while and explore the other side of the fence
[03:54] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: windows?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> nahh
[03:54] <jsgotangco> although current work requires me too as well
[03:54] <jsgotangco> its just so hard to balance things lately
[03:54] <imbrandon> osx ?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> more like go back to supporting hp ux
[03:55] <LaserJock> oh, that's sad
[03:55] <Fujitsu> Eek.
[03:55] <jsgotangco> digitization of media companies is one thing free software hasn't penetrated yet
[03:57] <LaserJock> interesting
[03:58] <jsgotangco> working again in a big company with national relevance made me realize we are still not there
[03:58] <jsgotangco> or probably in my local space
[03:59] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:00] <LaserJock> I'm the only desktop Linux user in my department I think
[04:00] <LaserJock> lots of OS X
[04:00] <LaserJock> but FLOSS means nothing to people here
[04:02] <imbrandon> time to go raid the candy dish of whats left, brb
[04:02] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm eying my stash
[04:03] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: over here, we are basically shielded from BSA stuff because we declare so much of software licenses there is very little incentive to look into FLOSS
[04:03] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: but we have underutilised hardware and virtualization is what we are eyeing
[04:10] <tritium> woohoo, finally got mythtv working with my HD card on edgy with mythtv 0.20 :)
[04:10] <imbrandon> tritium, cool
[04:10] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, no halloween? ouch
[04:10] <bddebian> tritium:!!
[04:11] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's a North American thing!
[04:11] <tritium> imbrandon: I'm very pleased.  A few bugs with mythweb I'll take a look at.  Looks like the 0.20a patch hasn't been applied yet.
[04:11] <tritium> bddebian!!!
[04:11] <imbrandon> tritium, probably not as 0.20 made it in after uvf
[04:11] <imbrandon> that was one of my final uploads
[04:11] <tritium> imbrandon: yeah, I saw that.  Many thanks to you.
[04:12] <imbrandon> np, thanks superm, he did the majority of the work, i just did some package cleanup
[04:12] <imbrandon> :)
[04:12] <tritium> Very cool.
[04:12] <LaserJock> tritium!!
[04:12] <tritium> Hey LaserJock :)
[04:13] <imbrandon> man i'm gonna be on a sugar rush for a few hours now
[04:13] <imbrandon> tooo many nerds
[04:13] <imbrandon> :)
[04:13] <tritium> You all are so friendly to me, considering I'm inactive :)
[04:13] <imbrandon> heh
[04:14] <tritium> heh, not like the fire my boss already lit
[04:16] <imbrandon> they seem to be good for that
[04:19] <ajmitch> bddebian: I haven't seen any uploads from you lately
[04:19] <bddebian> I know, I suck :-(
[04:19] <jsgotangco> because he's been playing too much games
[04:19] <bddebian> I wish
[04:20] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:21] <ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
[04:21] <jsgotangco> welcome back Burgundavia
[04:21] <imbrandon> debuild -S -saheya Burgundavia
[04:21] <imbrandon> err
[04:21] <Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco,a ajmitch
[04:21] <Burgundavia> it be cold today
[04:21] <Burgundavia> umm?
[04:22] <Fujitsu> No packaging our Burgundavia!
[04:22] <imbrandon> lol
[04:22] <Burgundavia> I got just fine without packaging thanks
[04:22] <Burgundavia> the ladies like it better that way
[04:22] <imbrandon> heh
[04:24] <ajmitch> nearly 18K open bugs
[04:25] <ajmitch> we're doing well
[04:25] <Burgundavia> not really
[04:25] <Burgundavia> it was under 4k at one point
[04:25] <ajmitch> well the number of bugs filed per week seems to be rising
[04:26] <imbrandon> as with the number of users
[04:26] <imbrandon> i'm sure
[04:26] <Burgundavia> number seems pretty stable, according to carthik
[04:26] <Burgundavia> http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/#week
[04:27] <Burgundavia> rate of rise, rather
[04:28] <ajmitch> hard to see since that's only over a week
[04:28] <Burgundavia> bloody LP and their bloody inability to produce useful stats
[04:31] <imbrandon> 1000 new bugs opened in one week?
[04:32] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yes.
[04:32] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Very easily.
[04:32] <ajmitch> imbrandon: hence why I think the rate of bug filign has gone up
[04:32] <imbrandon> holly fskin hell, how are less than 100 people supose to keep up with that
[04:32] <Burgundavia> gnome is seeing somewhat similar, due to their new bug crashing stuff
[04:33] <ajmitch> imbrandon: we don't keep up, that's the problem
[04:34] <imbrandon> thats every developer for ubuntu doing ~1.8 bugs a day, every day, and no regressions
[04:34] <imbrandon> man o man
[04:34] <imbrandon> that sucks
[04:35] <Fujitsu> We could really do with more triagers :/
[04:36] <LaserJock> we could do with more people who can forward upstream and/or fix the bugs
[04:36] <Fujitsu> A load of those bugs are dupes, I'm sure, and they probably don't get marked as such for some time, or ever.
[04:37] <Burgundavia> http://mces.blogspot.com/2006/10/bugzilla-points-boost.html
[04:37] <Burgundavia> take a peak at the top closer this week
[04:37] <LaserJock> yeah, I saw that
[04:37] <Fujitsu> Wow.
[04:39] <Burgundavia> LP lacks all the nice automated tools like that
[04:39] <Burgundavia> such as backtrace comparison, etc.
[04:39] <Burgundavia> in other words: Malone sucks
[04:39] <Fujitsu> And it makes it very hard to create them.
[04:39] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: by making it closed source? yes
[04:39] <jsgotangco> we're drinking more than we can from the firehose
[04:40] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Even though it is closed, it'd be a whole lot easier if it had a clean machine-parseable bug display.
[04:40] <Burgundavia> an xml-rpc interface?'
[04:40] <LaserJock> for instance
[04:40] <Fujitsu> It has one, although only for basic bug filing.
[04:40] <jsgotangco> it has one
[04:41] <Burgundavia> it is almost time for another "LP is hurting Ubuntu" blog post
[04:41] <LaserJock> I don't think it's very useful from what I've heard
[04:41] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It isn't.
[04:41] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: How long since the last one?
[04:41] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: couple of months, maybe a year
[04:42] <LaserJock> well, mostly I have issues because I don't want to go out and write stuff (like Fujitsu and I did) when it really should be included in LP
[04:42] <Fujitsu> I love the very complete XML-RPC interface: https://help.launchpad.net/MaloneXMLRPC
[04:42] <LaserJock> if we are going to use the thing then we should be able to make it better
[04:43] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: opensource 101
[04:43] <Fujitsu> I don't like having to write stuff that uses html2text, grep, sed, awk and cut to get sense out of http://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+packagebugs
[04:43] <LaserJock> true
[04:43] <LaserJock> I mean, I know the LP guys are working hard
[04:44] <LaserJock> but LP is not terribly helpful for developers
[04:44] <Fujitsu> There's been very little Malone improvement since I've been around.
[04:44] <LaserJock> it seems to have cool features
[04:44] <Burgundavia> but the LP guys have been working hard for 2 years
[04:44] <Burgundavia> without really making anybody happy
[04:44] <LaserJock>  but it seems awfully hard to use
[04:44] <Burgundavia> a lot of the UI blame can be laid at Marks door
[04:44] <LaserJock> I wonder if it's got some fundamental design flaws
[04:45] <Burgundavia> I think it has some nasty underbits too
[04:45] <Fujitsu> Underbits?
[04:45] <Burgundavia> like the fact that they have to take it down to update it
[04:45] <Fujitsu> Yes, that's bad.
[04:45] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: like underwear, but for programs. Underwear you cannot change with killing yourself
[04:45] <Fujitsu> Like, a few hours downtime a couple of days before release.
[04:45] <jsgotangco> take everything down even
[04:46] <imbrandon> well everything depends on it
[04:46] <Fujitsu> No Soyuz, no bugs, no wiki editing.
[04:46] <jsgotangco> you can't even edit the wiki
[04:46] <imbrandon> ( not a good thing )
[04:46] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: It isn't a bad thing, if it is reliable enough.
[04:47] <imbrandon> well you cant tell me that the way they do it they cant have another system loaded with the new code ( like staging ) ready to go, swap the boxes, and use the current one for the next rollout
[04:48] <imbrandon> no physicaly but you know what i mean
[04:48] <Burgundavia> at what point do we (the community) say to Canonical: We refuse to your close source tools. Make them open source or we will setup our own
[04:48] <ajmitch> imbrandon: because of database changes - they'd need to migrate all changes made during that downtime
[04:49] <imbrandon> wow it still has scema changes
[04:49] <jsgotangco> lunch brb
[04:49] <imbrandon> schema*
[04:49] <Fujitsu> With a bit of trickery, they could take a copy of the production database, then sync it somehow with only a few minutes downtime.
[04:49] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yes.
[04:49] <minghua> Burgundavia: all the community that needs to use LP frequently being?  (I am thinking only the ~50 MOTUs)
[04:49] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: It's getting close, we're drowning in bugs and stuff.
[04:49] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea i'm kinda of that mindset too but again we're streched thin
[04:49] <Burgundavia> us, those of us in this channel, etc.
[04:49] <Burgundavia> the really core people
[04:50] <minghua> I surely won't object boycotting LP if there is an alternative
[04:50] <Burgundavia> the issue is, if it gets public, it gets really really messy
[04:50] <minghua> (but I am far from a core people, of course)
[04:51] <Burgundavia> we need to sit Mark down and say "We are fed up. This is what we want"
[04:51] <Burgundavia> and we want dates, not promises
[04:51] <nixternal> 5 more days and you can do that ;)
[04:51] <imbrandon> it might be a good subject for MTV
[04:51] <Burgundavia> nixternal: no, actually, I can't
[04:51] <imbrandon> but not "officialy"
[04:51] <Burgundavia> I am not going to be at MTV
[04:51] <nixternal> oh ya, you and are are stuck
[04:51] <nixternal> the feds are saying no to me ditching school on their dime
[04:51] <Burgundavia> it also needs to be a gropu thing
[04:51] <Fujitsu> This needs to be brought up with Mark in the near future.
[04:51] <Fujitsu> Can we collect a large group of people?
[04:52] <Burgundavia> certainly
[04:52] <Fujitsu> I'm sure some bug triagers would join us.
[04:52] <Burgundavia> it should be a private thing, however
[04:52] <Burgundavia> we don't want it splashed all over slashdot, etc.
[04:52] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: it's not something you want to use to shame people
[04:52] <Burgundavia> no, far from it
[04:52] <minghua> yeah, sure be kept private
[04:52] <Fujitsu> This could be absolutely disastrous if it goes wrong or gets out to the FOSS media...
[04:52] <Burgundavia> it is a family dispute, it should be kept private
[04:53] <nixternal> tell fabbione to wipe this log from http space ;)
[04:53] <Burgundavia> right
[04:53] <Burgundavia> how many other times have we bitched about LP behind the scenes?
[04:53] <ajmitch> every few days
[04:53] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Many, many hundreds!
[04:53] <nixternal> Fujitsu: you remember the night where my username and password got posted in this chan?
[04:53] <imbrandon> whats is the resoning for keeping LP closed anyhow ?
[04:53] <Fujitsu> nixternal: Yes, you got that obliterated?
[04:53] <nixternal> you would be amazed by how many people have tried to use it aginst that server
[04:53] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: unknown
[04:53] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Oh no, not this again :/
[04:54] <Fujitsu> nixternal: Ouch.
[04:54] <ajmitch> imbrandon: competitive advantage
[04:54] <nixternal> no it didn't..i contacte him as well
[04:54] <nixternal> no damage done..that was a 1 use password and got changed
[04:54] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: More frequent than that, and the frequency is increasing.
[04:54] <imbrandon> that seems strange as floss is about competition
[04:54] <nixternal> i thought that once it was "complete" that it was going to be open source?
[04:55] <ajmitch> nixternal: funny
[04:55] <LaserJock> yeah, but I'm starting to feel like the Fedora guys a bit
[04:55] <nixternal> kind of sounds like this strip club by o'hare airport..they keep it under construction so the gov't doesn't close it down
[04:55] <imbrandon> lol
[04:55] <nixternal> it has been under construction for more than 15 years that i know of
[04:55] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: How?
[04:56] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: they complain about just being Red Hat's guinea pigs
[04:56] <Burgundavia> right
[04:56] <nixternal> im not feeling the fedora guys...kde is responsive and fast in Kubuntu, unlike it is for them
[04:56] <Burgundavia> the only issue we have with caonical is LP
[04:56] <Burgundavia> everything else works fairly well
[04:56] <Fujitsu> Canonical is great, other than LP, yes.
[04:56] <Fujitsu> And LP could be great.
[04:56] <Burgundavia> LP could seriously rock
[04:57] <LaserJock> well, here's the reason I haven't made a big complaint about LP
[04:57] <Fujitsu> It could really, really rock.
[04:57] <LaserJock> even if it was open source I'm not sure it would move much faster
[04:57] <nixternal> LaserJock: my friends and family pretty much say the same thing...like they have us brainwashed to work for free...maybe a couple of more kicks to their head they will understand
[04:57] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: yes, yes it would
[04:57] <nixternal> my dad is getting close, as he is sick of the "closed standards" in his line of work
[04:57] <Burgundavia> how many python devs work on Ubuntu?
[04:58] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: A lot, although they're often tied up with Ubuntu stuff.
[04:58] <LaserJock> yeah, but that adds a ton more development work that maybe should be going into Ubuntu and not LP
[04:58] <Burgundavia> it would be modularized, to break off each piece
[04:58] <nixternal> do a /who in #ubuntu-devel im sure you can get an accurate count ;)
[04:58] <LaserJock> I mean I'd love to see it opened up
[04:58] <LaserJock> but that doesn't mean I'm would be working on it
[04:58] <Burgundavia> it is the kind of thing that would attract people
[04:58] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:59] <nixternal> heh, even if it was opened, i still wouldn't be able to do any more with it ;)
[04:59] <Fujitsu> LP is a big turn off for some people, I know.
[04:59] <LaserJock> I'm just not sure it is built in a fashion that would allow it to be easily opened
[04:59] <Fujitsu> DDs complain about Ubuntu, because its infrastructure is non-free.
[04:59] <Burgundavia> that is Canonical's problem, not ours
[05:00] <Burgundavia> if they build it monolithic, they get to pay the price
[05:00] <Fujitsu> Correct, Burgundavia.
[05:03] <LaserJock> I don't know
[05:03] <LaserJock> I just think it could really throw us off course to have a big infrastructure revolution
[05:04] <Burgundavia> well, if Canonical says no, then we have an issue
[05:04] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Not really. We just use Bugzilla instead. Problem solved.
[05:04] <Burgundavia> but we need to get our bugs out of LP
[05:04] <Burgundavia> and what about specs?
[05:04] <bddebian> viva la revoluccion
[05:04] <imbrandon> and soyuz
[05:05] <Burgundavia> soyuz is the one we really can't replace easily
[05:05] <ajmitch> unless you go back to dak
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Bugs out of LP means maybe a couple of hours of script writing, then programatically iterate through the bugs. Not difficult.
[05:05] <Burgundavia> regardless, if enough of us demand a date, I think we can get it
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Yes, I was thinking dak. It's not that bad.
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Maybe.
[05:06] <Burgundavia> Mark has coasted on teh community being pliant
[05:06] <LaserJock> forking LP functionality would be a disaster for the community I think
[05:06] <Fujitsu> I guess they're really not going to like it if we revolt.
[05:06] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: LP is a disaster for the community at the moment, anyway.
[05:06] <LaserJock> no it's not
[05:06] <LaserJock> it's not ideal for sure
[05:06] <LaserJock> but it isn't *that* bad
[05:06] <LaserJock> people are using it
[05:07] <LaserJock> and it is functional
[05:07] <LaserJock> it's just not the way we want it
[05:07] <Burgundavia> but we are stuck
[05:07] <LaserJock> having things like Rosseta and Soyuz and Blueprint are pretty cool
[05:08] <LaserJock> Malone needs work for sure
[05:08] <Fujitsu> Soyuz isn't great, but it's not bad.
[05:08] <joejaxx> what is wrong with launchpad?
[05:08] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: closed source
[05:08] <LaserJock> but saying something like "We're going to use our own BTS" is a bit overboard IMO
[05:09] <LaserJock> but I highly doubt it would come to that
[05:09] <Burgundavia> yes, for now
[05:09] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: have you met Mark?
[05:09] <LaserJock> yes
[05:09] <Fujitsu> If Canonical is uncooperative, we have little choice.
[05:09] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: you mean so people cannot go around developing their own
[05:09] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: we can use LP
[05:09] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: What about Mark?
[05:09] <chillywilly> trac makes for a nice bug tracker/dev tool
[05:09] <chillywilly> and its python
[05:09] <chillywilly> could use some work
[05:09] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: no, it means a good percentage of our infrastructure is source we cannot see and it is hurting us
[05:10] <Burgundavia> chillywilly: doesn't really scale, from what I understand
[05:10] <chillywilly> why?
[05:10] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: We can use LP, but we'll die rather quickly. We're drowning in bugs, and the bug-rate is increasing.
[05:10] <chillywilly> seems like every project and their mother uses it
[05:10] <Burgundavia> not built to deal with a distro
[05:10] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I don't see what that has to do with LP
[05:10] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: what project is that?
[05:11] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: and I don't think we are exactly we're going to die
[05:11] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Can you think of any infrastructure that /isn't/ closed?
[05:11] <Burgundavia> our wiki
[05:12] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: ?
[05:12] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It has to do with LP, because with an open-source solution we might have a chance to develop things like Conseil properly, and have a much better interface for bug triaging. I hate the LP web interface, and it'd be a whole lot easier to triage if there was a non-HTML interface.
[05:12] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: Where did I mention this project?
[05:12] <joejaxx> 22:10 < Fujitsu> LaserJock: We can use LP, but we'll die rather quickly. We're drowning in bugs, and the bug-rate is increasing.
[05:12] <Fujitsu> LP == Launchpad
[05:13] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: so the bug rate for launchpad is incresing?
[05:13] <joejaxx> launchpad itself?
[05:13] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: Oh, I mean Ubuntu.
[05:13] <Burgundavia> the bug rate for LP is going up to
[05:13] <joejaxx> ah ok
[05:13] <LaserJock> yes, but an increase in bugs is to be expected
[05:14] <Burgundavia> yes, but bugs from 2 years ago are not being resolved
[05:14] <joejaxx> so what you two are proposing is that launchpad should be open source to aid in fixing it?
[05:14] <LaserJock> I'm not really sure why an increase in bug reports = LP must go
[05:14] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: it isn
[05:14] <Burgundavia> LP must go
[05:14] <Burgundavia> it is LP needs to adapt
[05:14] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: A lot more than two people...
[05:14] <LaserJock> sure
[05:14] <LaserJock> but threatening forking and stuff like that doesn't seem helpful to me
[05:14] <minghua> joejaxx: please read backscroll
[05:14] <minghua> (or logs)
[05:15] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: we cannot fork a closed source product
[05:15] <LaserJock> well, forking functionality is what I mean
[05:15] <Burgundavia> ah
[05:15] <LaserJock> having 2 BTSs
[05:15] <Burgundavia> that would be a "Canonical has refused all sane pleas" option
[05:15] <nixternal> [22:14:07]  <Burgundavia> yes, but bugs from 2 years ago are not being resolved
[05:15] <joejaxx> minghua: i like to have things clarified
[05:16] <nixternal> you aren't joking there
[05:16] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: I don't believe that refusal is too unlikely.
[05:16] <nixternal> and don't try to mess with those bugs either, as for some reason people hold those old bugs near and dear to their heart
[05:16] <Burgundavia> nixternal: I am speaking about LP bugs from 2 years ago
[05:16] <nixternal> well, im speaking of all bugs from 2 years ago
[05:16] <Burgundavia> like the "KDE, GNOME and other upstreams hate Rosetta" one
[05:17] <Burgundavia> or the more recent "Debian choose pootle over Rosetta" one
[05:17] <nixternal> well, Rosetta needs work, but it has a great foundation no doubt...it has been somewhat nice to the doc project, although mdke is on their arses like white on rice come translation time
[05:18] <Burgundavia> yes, Rosetta itself is nice
[05:18] <Burgundavia> but it doesn't play well with others
[05:18] <nixternal> no it doesn't unfortunately
[05:18] <Burgundavia> but because that doesn't really hurt Canonical, it isn't a priority
[05:18] <Burgundavia> it does hurt the community, so it would be fixed
[05:19] <lifeless> how does it not play nice ? [what would make it 'nicer'] 
[05:19] <nixternal> it might be time that they either start working on opening and fixing what we have (LP), or start looking for better solutions, if there are any
[05:20] <Burgundavia> lifeless: the most common compliant is issues of bad translations being overwritten
[05:20] <nixternal> was their any reasoning when they switched from bugzilla to lp in the first place?
[05:20] <Burgundavia> s/bad/good/
[05:20] <minghua> I honestly don't seen how Rosetta is nice
[05:20] <Burgundavia> web-based translation is nice
[05:21] <joejaxx> The developers have stated that they aim to eventually release it under an open source license.[1] 
[05:21] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: they have said that for 2 years with absolutely no movement
[05:21] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: Eventually being the keyword.
[05:21] <minghua> so far I haven't seen a single Debian maintainer or upstream author happy with Rosetta
[05:21] <nixternal> yes
[05:21] <Burgundavia> no timeframes, nothing
[05:21] <LaserJock> nixternal: because Canonical wanted to build a complete distro infrastructure
[05:21] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: i see
[05:21] <nixternal> i already said that, somewhere is stated "once it is completed"
[05:21] <nixternal> it is just odd that they build a "closed" infrastructure
[05:21] <Fujitsu> nixternal: I've never seen that, and I've looked long and hard for any extra information on this.
[05:22] <nixternal> see, there is a lot that Canonical holds from the community, which isn't that nice
[05:22] <Burgundavia> I think Mark's grand plan was to sell services based on LP
[05:22] <Burgundavia> which he may be doing
[05:23] <imbrandon> if thats the case then it will be 2008 before its opened
[05:23] <joejaxx> https://launchpad.net/faq
[05:23] <Burgundavia> lifeless: other issues include getting timely updates of pots into Rosetta, how unknowns translate
[05:23] <joejaxx> that has alot of answers
[05:23] <joejaxx> that link
[05:23] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: that faq has been there since 2004
[05:23] <imbrandon> joejaxx, we know the faq, that dosent change the complaints
[05:23] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: imbrandon no i mean
[05:24] <joejaxx> it says you can contribute and have access to the code
[05:24] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: I have been around since 2004. I know all about  Canonicals "statements"
[05:24] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: i did not mean it like that :(
[05:24] <nixternal> this weekend at our LUG event..we had a guy who writes code for Hospitals that tracks everything the hospital does, from patients, to medication, to you name it...it is huge, and it was quite nice (i actually sold him on bzr)...he is going to release it open source here eventually...it would be neat to use some of his ideas in a complete system
[05:24] <nixternal> the ajax trickery was pretty neat
[05:25] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: That would imply an NDA.
[05:25] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: that statement about "helping" opensource LP would require an NDA
[05:25] <Burgundavia> no thanks
[05:25] <joejaxx> oh alright
[05:25] <joejaxx> i understand
[05:25] <Burgundavia> you would be foolish to sign such an NDA
[05:25] <Fujitsu> Very foolish.
[05:26] <joejaxx> i have a question though
[05:26] <Fujitsu> Requiring an NDA to help in an open-sourcing effort. How ironic.
[05:26] <joejaxx> what is this talk on there about certain parts being open source?
[05:26] <nixternal> "distribution management code, which is part of of the service that Canonical provides to other companies that make their own distributions."
[05:26] <joejaxx> already*
[05:26] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: some calendar code is apparently already freed
[05:26] <Burgundavia> never seen it though
[05:27] <nixternal> heh ya, and now they are going to remove the calendar, if they haven't already
[05:27] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: The calendar got turned off a couple of months back, and I've never heard of the code.
[05:27] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: oh ok never have I which is why I asked
[05:27] <nixternal> yup, the calendar is gone
[05:27] <nixternal> hehe
[05:27] <Burgundavia> lovely, they open source the code that gets shunted out
[05:27] <joejaxx> well
[05:27] <Burgundavia> if it was just me, I wouldn't much care, because I am never going to code a line of LP
[05:28] <joejaxx> if people feel so strongly about it
[05:28] <Burgundavia> but because I know there are lots of smart python hackers that can dig in, I do care
[05:28] <joejaxx> why not create an agenda spec page?
[05:28] <joejaxx> i do not know what you call it exactly
[05:28] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: That is suicide, and isn't going to happen.
[05:28] <joejaxx> when you want something to change and you talk about it
[05:28] <Burgundavia> because we want to do it quietly and politely
[05:28] <Burgundavia> so it does end up on Slashdot "Ubuntu developers revolt"
[05:28] <Burgundavia> doesn't, rather
[05:29] <Fujitsu> Speaking of quietly, may it be advisable to move into a non-logged channel at some point?
[05:29] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: yeah
[05:29] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: at this point it si grumbling, not action
[05:29] <Admiral_Chicago> i doubt their will ever be a time when our community has to "revolt"
[05:29] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: my point was: was there a way to address your concerns
[05:29] <joejaxx> that is what i meant
[05:29] <joejaxx> :)
[05:29] <Fujitsu> Admiral_Chicago: It has reached that time...
[05:30] <Fujitsu> (or is close to it)
[05:30] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: I respect your opinion, but I have to say, I have been around awhile. Seen all the pretty words
[05:30] <Burgundavia> now I want action
[05:31] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: i was just asksing if there was a way to address your concern
[05:31] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: yes that is what i mean
[05:31] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: I think a lot of us do.
[05:31] <joejaxx> meant
[05:31] <Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: i'm sure there are more than enough people willing to hear you rproblems and work to resolve them
[05:31] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: is there a way to let people know that lot of people feel that way
[05:31] <Burgundavia> I will mull it over
[05:31] <Burgundavia> first I need to get the UWN out
[05:32] <chillywilly> write an "open letter"and have people sign it....it has worked great for the linux kernel people....j/k
[05:32] <Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: write a blog about it and link me up to it
[05:32] <Burgundavia> right
[05:32] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: may i pm you?
[05:32] <Burgundavia> sure
[05:37] <imbrandon> freeflying, what is CJK stuff? i kinda missed the point of you email
[05:38] <LaserJock> imbrandon: Chinese Japanese Korean
[05:38] <lifeless> imbrandon: chinese japanese korean
[05:38] <imbrandon> ahh ok /me headdesks
[05:43] <Chandu> ajmitch, hi
[05:43] <Chandu> ajmitch, good morning
[05:44] <Burgundavia> hey Chandu
[05:44] <Chandu> Burgundavia, hi
[05:45] <joejaxx> hello Chandu :)
[05:45] <Chandu> joejaxx, hello
[05:46] <Chandu> hey Sorry .. I will catch you later ... I have called for the meeting .. I have to move .. Bye
[05:47] <joejaxx> Chandu: Good Day
[05:50] <LaserJock> darn it, why can't I make a simple diagram
[05:52] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: did you get my pm earlier?
[05:52] <Amaranth> Burgundavia: yep
[05:52] <LaserJock> well, inkscape and dia aren't helping  me :/
[05:52] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: good
[05:58] <joejaxx> LaserJock: Visio! :D
[05:58] <joejaxx> haha
[05:59] <LaserJock> joejaxx: I'm this ---|  |--- close to doing it in Office
[05:59] <LaserJock> but I'm sticking with inkscape for the moment
[05:59] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
[06:00] <minghua> LaserJock: I would think for diagram dia is a better choice
[06:01] <minghua> but then I haven't use neither much
[06:02] <LaserJock> I can't get dia to do anything useful
[06:29] <Lathiat> 13:05 < Farnaby> Lathiat, I have tried that, more then once. Its stuck on BioF
[06:29] <Lathiat> 13:06 < Farnaby> sorry lathiat, went to smoke to try and get a bit less pissed off.
[06:29] <Lathiat> i love it
[07:04] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
[07:11] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: you know, there are worse bug trackers
[07:11] <Burgundavia> like the sf.net one
[07:13] <LaserJock> ugg, I have never gotten along well with that one
[07:18] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Pong.
[07:19] <Fujitsu> (was doing a maths practice exam)
[07:27] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: did you send me the script to do the MOTU Science bug list?
[07:28] <LaserJock> I saw links to your pages
[07:28] <LaserJock> but no script
[07:28] <Fujitsu> True, I'll send it to you shortly, currently talking to upstream upstream.
[07:29] <LaserJock> k, no rush
[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[07:54] <Gloubiboulga> hello dholbach
[07:55] <LaserJock> guten Morgen
[07:55] <dholbach> hey LaserJock, hey Gloubiboulga
[08:17] <minghua> I am nominated for motu-sru by sistpoty?!
[08:26] <StevenK> minghua: I think * has been nominated for motu-sru.
[08:26] <StevenK> Except for me, it seems. :-P
[08:27] <minghua> StevenK: you are there :-)
[08:28] <minghua> (even in the "reduced" list)
[08:28] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yes, you got nominated
[08:30] <minghua> Hobbsee: you got nominated too
[08:30] <StevenK> Heh
[08:30] <minghua> I think now it's more of a question who is going to accept the nominatio
[08:30] <Hobbsee> oh?
[08:30] <minghua> nomination*
[08:30] <Hobbsee> i didnt see that
[08:30] <lifeless> where is the list ?
[08:30] <minghua> lifeless: on ubuntu-motu mailing list
[08:30] <StevenK> Ah.
[08:31] <minghua> dholbach said the LP team consists of only temporary members
[08:32] <lifeless> hmm, whack, I'm not in that list.
[08:32] <lifeless> I must fix that
[08:32] <dholbach> and it'd be nice if you all could follow up with who you think would be a good fit for the job
[08:35] <StevenK> I wonder if the datacentre is having issues.
[08:36] <Hobbsee> heh.  i did get nominated.
[08:36] <StevenK> I can't reach {lists,www}.ubuntu.com or LP from here.
[08:36] <lifeless> yes
[08:36] <lifeless> there seems to be a routing problem
[08:37] <StevenK> Neat.
[08:42] <sivang> morning
[08:42] <Hobbsee> hey sivang
[08:43] <sivang> hey Hobbsee !
[08:51] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/all.html
[08:51] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/bugs.html
[08:55] <Fujitsu> Very good :)
[09:01] <LaserJock> wahoo, goodies from fabbione
[09:01] <Fujitsu> ?
[09:02] <Lathiat> yeh seems deadish
[09:02] <Fujitsu> Yes, I think the datacenter has vanished somewhat :/
[09:02] <Lathiat> dies just inside level3's network here
[09:02] <StevenK> Here as well.
[09:02] <StevenK> RIP datacentre
[09:03] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: he just email -devel with some feisty info
[09:03] <crimsun> (I can access 'em fine)
[09:03] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[09:04] <LaserJock> yeah, *.u.c and LP are fine for me
[09:05] <StevenK> crimsun: Does your route touch ae-1-0.bbr2.London2.Level3.net or as-0-0.bbr1.London2.Level3.net?
[09:05] <LaserJock> hot dog, I broke the 1 million mark for karma
[09:06] <crimsun> well dang, this place blocks trace*
[09:06] <Lathiat> StevenK: mine hits as-0-0.bbr1.London2.Level3.net
[09:06] <Lathiat> hrma ctually both
[09:06] <Lathiat> appear on that hop
[09:06] <StevenK> Yes, and that's the hop my trace dies at.
[09:06] <Fujitsu> My last is bbr2.
[09:07] <LaserJock> what are  you using to tell?
[09:07] <Fujitsu> traceroute
[09:07] <StevenK> mtr
[09:07] <Lathiat> wee saw a spiek of dropped packets just then
[09:07] <Lathiat> im using mtr
[09:08] <Lathiat> mtr is the best tool ever invented
[09:08] <StevenK> Lathiat: There's a few others. netcat? :-P
[09:08] <Lathiat> well, yeh
[09:08] <Lathiat> mtr still rocks :>
[09:08] <StevenK> True.
[09:09] <StevenK> netcat, tcpdump, wireshark, mtr, ping ...
[09:09] <LaserJock> everything looks find when I do mtr launchpad.net
[09:09] <Fujitsu> A lot of my stuff to bbr1.SanJose goes missing.
[09:10] <StevenK> LaserJock: But do you see either of those two in your trace?
[09:10] <Fujitsu> Ah, seems to have stablised now.
[09:10] <LaserJock> StevenK: yeah
[09:10] <StevenK> What the?!
[09:11] <Fujitsu> Lathiat: Where on the planet are you?
[09:11] <Lathiat> Fujitsu: perth, western australia
[09:11] <Fujitsu> jamesh (another Aussie) confirms that he can't access it from his machine, but can from other machines...
[09:11] <Fujitsu> OK, seems to be fairly Australian.
[09:11] <LaserJock> lots of packet loss from ae-1-55.bbr1.SanJose1.Level3.net
[09:11] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Same.
[09:12] <LaserJock> but a ton at the DC it seem
[09:12] <LaserJock> for gangotri.ubuntu.com I have ~ 33% packet loss
[09:12] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what it means
[09:12] <Fujitsu> Is there anybody who can't access them, and is outside Oz?
[09:13] <Burgundavia> I am having big issues with 7:  ae-1-0.bbr2.London2.Level3.net (212.187.128.45)      asymm  8 151.856ms
[09:13] <Lathiat> hrm works from a US colo
[09:13] <Lathiat> still going out level3
[09:13] <Lathiat> but im seeing packte loss there
[09:13] <StevenK> It fails for me from my US colo.
[09:14] <StevenK> With the same two routers, damn it all.
[09:15] <Fujitsu> It's OK from my ServerPronto box.
[09:15] <Burgundavia> might be a transatlantic cable issue
[09:15] <Burgundavia> telecity.net is having issues for me as well
[09:15] <Lathiat> uh
[09:15] <Lathiat> yeh
[09:16] <Lathiat> somethings boogered
[09:16] <Lathiat> http://www.internettrafficreport.com/australia.htm
[09:17] <Lathiat> that said i get all the way to level3 in london
[09:17] <Lathiat> weirdly
[09:17] <Lathiat> reverse path may differ perhaps
[09:17] <Fujitsu> Quite possibly...
[09:17] <StevenK> That's an interesting question.
[09:18] <Burgundavia> Lathiat: I did there as well
[09:18] <Burgundavia> die, rather
[09:18] <Burgundavia> global trend appears to be down
[09:19] <Fujitsu> From my ServerPronto box, there's no packet loss at all :S
[09:19] <Burgundavia> where is serverpronto?
[09:19] <jsgmobile> Website?
[09:19] <Fujitsu> US, I believe.
[09:20] <Burgundavia> yet Lathiat and I are both having issues
[09:20] <jsgmobile> I cant even get it
[09:20] <Burgundavia> LaserJock is also having some
[09:20] <StevenK> And I am, too.
[09:20] <StevenK> From here and a US colo site.
[09:20] <jsgmobile> Even LP
[09:20] <Fujitsu> All Australians seem to be stuffed, and some others.
[09:21] <jsgmobile> Black wednesday hehe
[09:21] <Fujitsu> OK, I get different results from imbrandon's box.
[09:21] <LaserJock> well, I tried from this machine and tiber
[09:21] <Fujitsu> ae-1-100.ebr1.NewYork1.Level3.net
[09:22] <Fujitsu> That's the last hop.
[09:22] <LaserJock> and it's all good
[09:22] <Fujitsu> Massive packet loss in Level3's Chicago area.
[09:22] <Burgundavia> I go straight Seattle --> London and die there
[09:22] <jsgmobile> I didnt do anything i swear
[09:23] <LaserJock> I go from San Jose
[09:25] <Burgundavia> jsgmobile: we blame you for everything. World hunger, the darfur and this outage. all of equal world problems, all caused by you
[09:28] <jsgmobile> Nice its all caused by me logging on to irc on my phone
[09:28] <StevenK> Ah ha!
[09:28] <StevenK> Get him!
[09:29] <Burgundavia> by logging into with your phone, you have overloaded some tower elsewhere, where somebody is loading food for the darfur. Simultaneously, that has taken load off another cell, which has allowed the arms dealer to start loading arms for the darfur. By connecting to this irc server, you have overloaded the power circuits, taking the entire eastern seaboard and europe off teh net
[09:29] <Burgundavia> there, see? it si quite simple
[09:30] <jsgmobile> Ooppss
[09:30] <Burgundavia> wonder if there is a movie those three lines?
[09:31] <LaserJock> easily
[09:31] <LaserJock> "Save Darfur ... from Jerome"
[09:32] <LaserJock> I think we could get Tom Cruise to play jsgmobile
[09:32] <LaserJock> or maybe Brad Pitt, he'd go for that
[09:33] <Burgundavia> always partial to matt damon, myself
[09:33] <Burgundavia> tom cruise as mark?
[09:33] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:33] <Burgundavia> they are both crazy enough :)
[09:33] <LaserJock> I wonder if Brad Pitt could play mako?
[09:34] <LaserJock> but for sure jdub would have to play himself
[09:34] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:34] <sivang> what movie are you talking about?
[09:35] <Burgundavia> jsgmobile causes world hunger and arms smuggling by logging into irc via his mobile phone
[09:35] <Burgundavia> that is the working title
[09:35] <Burgundavia> "IRC on the phone!" <-- new title
[09:35] <LaserJock> sounds good
[09:36] <antinobody> That all seems too plausible and simple to be a successful movie
[09:37] <LaserJock> oh, we'll have to throw in some twist and turns
[09:37] <Burgundavia> no, it is "high concept"
[09:37] <Burgundavia> explained in a single sentence
[09:37] <LaserJock> possiblely and Ubuntu love triangle
[09:37] <jsgmobile> Just gimme a jet anf a car in the movie
[09:38] <LaserJock> jsgmobile falls for Edubuntu, but is secretly meeting up with Kubuntu when she's not looking
[09:39] <LaserJock> in the end he must choose between the one he loves... and the one he loves to hate :/
[09:39] <antinobody> I see, and in a jealous rage, Edubuntu exposes jsgmobile's evil phone IRCing ways to the public
[09:39] <Fujitsu> :O
[09:40] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: this is work!
[09:40] <LaserJock> gotta keep the creative MOTU juices flowing :-)
[09:40] <crimsun> yeah, we're all MOTUed out thanks to the raging MOTUaholic's mailing list rampage ;)
[09:40] <jsgmobile> Yeah this is blog worty
[09:40] <antinobody> Whatever it is, its not me doing advanced calc homework, so I'm happy
[09:40] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: LP-discussion has been on-topic for a while now.
[09:41] <Burgundavia> yes, I suppose so
[09:41] <LaserJock> crimsun: I'd hardly call it a rampage
[09:41] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:41] <crimsun> :)
[09:42] <LaserJock> although I did nominate like 10 people and throw a big todo list out there
[09:42] <LaserJock> :(
[09:42] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: the rest of us are burned out, bitter old men (or women)
[09:42] <antinobody> Hey, without all the crazy MOTU e-mails, I'd've completely forgotten about this MOTU thing
[09:43] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm not seeing any \o/ 's yet in response to my email ;-)
[09:44] <LaserJock> only crimsun throwing another big one on the stack
[09:44] <jsgmobile> Its hard to do it if your screen is 320x240
[09:45] <jsgmobile> \o/
[09:45] <antinobody> I'm not going to pretend I know what \o/ means
[09:45] <highvoltage> I haven't seen the mail yet, but \0/ !
[09:46] <jsgmobile> Its just a representation of a guy cheering
[09:46] <LaserJock> antinobody: it's somebody going "Yay!"
[09:46] <crimsun> hey now, I did say I was crazy.
[09:46] <crimsun> err, well, insane.
[09:46] <LaserJock> crimsun: insane
[09:46] <LaserJock> but a very good point none the less
[09:48] <antinobody> imbrandon is the only individual who's wiki page is listed under CategoryMOTU.  I'll assume that means that he is the embodiment of the group
[09:49] <crimsun> correct.
[09:49] <LaserJock> haha
[09:49] <StevenK> I don't think I like that.
[09:49] <crimsun> (crap, have we just locked ourselves into a crazed KDE world?)
[09:50] <LaserJock> I think BddebianIsAGod is the embodiment of the group ;-)
[09:50] <LaserJock> bddebian does all the work and we get to watch :-)
[09:50] <StevenK> crimsun: With flash and beryl everywhere
[09:52] <LaserJock> crimsun: ?
[09:53] <dholbach> _o/ _o_ \o_ \o/
[09:53] <crimsun> LaserJock: jesting over his Kubuntu association
[09:54] <LaserJock> it's the Macarena
[09:54] <Burgundavia> we had better nuke it from orbit, just to be sure
[09:54] <Burgundavia> KDE, that is
[09:55] <StevenK> I will only condone that if they make Gnome Launch Box not suck first.
[09:55] <antinobody> NOW I understand the \o/
[09:55] <antinobody> and I am ashamed
[09:55] <LaserJock> heh, no need
[09:56] <jsgmobile> Heh
[09:56] <highvoltage> antinobody: that's ok, I also didn't know what it was when LaserJock did it in edubuntu, so I didn't want to ask there, and asked on my LUG channel instead, and they pointed me to goatse
[09:56] <crimsun> ouch
[09:57] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: needed that, thanks
[09:57] <jsgmobile> Hahaha
[09:57] <Burgundavia> lol
[09:57] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: no point stick of DOOM?
[09:57] <LaserJock> *pointy
[09:58] <Hobbsee> you know, it wouldnt have killed you to take that in the way id' intended it.
[09:58] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: thats it! I leaving and sleeping now :P
[09:59] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: haha
[09:59] <antinobody> I should probably stop putting off my math homework now, come to think.
[09:59] <antinobody> The day will come when I actually have time to help you wise people.
[10:00] <StevenK> LaserJock: Who is A, and how do you hand yourself for effort?
[10:00] <dholbach> crimsun: frog.co.nz doesn't work for me!
[10:00] <LaserJock> StevenK: :p
[10:01] <Burgundavia> night all
[10:01] <crimsun> dholbach: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.frog.co.nz/images2/toadily-insane.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.frog.co.nz/toadily-insane-a.html&h=450&w=398&sz=30&hl=en&start=8&tbnid=Ow0MrzfrYzdgfM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=112&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dinsane%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
[10:01] <LaserJock> hahahaha
[10:02] <LaserJock> that should totally be our mascot ;-)
[10:02] <jsgmobile> Haha that url ate 3/4 of my screen
[10:02] <crimsun> sorry, I should have used tinyurl
[10:02] <dholbach> :)
[10:03] <Hobbsee> indeed.  just imagine trying to copy that from irssi
[10:03] <TheMuso> crap
[10:03] <LaserJock> crimsun: nah, that's what he gets for using his phone for IRC'ing
[10:03] <Hobbsee> hah
[10:03] <dholbach> xchat-gnome is quite fine with it :)
[10:03] <TheMuso> registrations open
[10:03] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i ignored it :P
[10:03] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: You know you want to.
[10:03] <StevenK> s going.
[10:03] <dholbach> Hobbsee, TheMuso: you guys are giving a talk? :-)))
[10:03] <TheMuso> dholbach: No, just going.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm not.
[10:04] <TheMuso> StevenK: You know you want to.
[10:04] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i dont talk, remember?  i have this weird voice :P
[10:04] <dholbach> I don't believe you :)
[10:04] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I've heard it, it doesn't sound weird
[10:04] <jsgmobile> dholbach: are you going to lca?
[10:04] <TheMuso> *COUGH*
[10:04] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh.  riiiight....
[10:04] <dholbach> jsgmobile: no, I don't think so :)
[10:04] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: it just sounds ... Australian
[10:04] <Hobbsee> it's just higher pitched than everyone else's, so easily recognisable
[10:05] <Hobbsee> that too
[10:05] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: but I'm guessing at LCA that isn't a problem ;-)
[10:05] <TheMuso> Everybody's voice is unique. Don't you know that already?
[10:05] <Hobbsee> true....the AU bit
[10:07] <jsgmobile> LaserJock: at least i can still chat with you even if i'm in the toilet you have my outmost attention this way
[10:07] <LaserJock> jsgmobile: yeah, that's just the analogy I needed
[10:08] <LaserJock> maybe s/analogy/visual/
[10:09] <TheMuso> eeeew
[10:09] <LaserJock> it's too latehere
[10:09] <LaserJock> sorry people
[10:13] <mcsmurf> general question: How are the binary packages for the releases created? You (as a developer) upload the source code
[10:14] <mcsmurf> and when a release should happen, the build machines compile the binaries?
[10:14] <mcsmurf> (of all the source packages required&uploaded)
[10:15] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:15] <LaserJock> we upload source packages
[10:16] <LaserJock> the source packages go into a building queue
[10:16] <LaserJock> and get built by the build farm into .debs
[10:16] <mcsmurf> are these machines somewhat special? I noted the build date always seems to be the same
[10:16] <mcsmurf> ok...
[10:16] <LaserJock> no, I don't think they are particularly special
[10:16] <mcsmurf> at least the Firefox releases always get 2006-06-01 as build id/date
[10:16] <mcsmurf> (that's the number in the user-agent)
[10:16] <Fujitsu> mcsmurf: That'll just be because it's hard-coded.
[10:17] <mcsmurf> it's hard-coded?!
[10:17] <mcsmurf> who thought that this would be a good idea ;-)
[10:22] <highvoltage> if i want my gpg key info on my business card, I should have the gpg fingerprint on there, right?
[10:23] <Fujitsu> highvoltage: Correct.
[10:25] <mcsmurf> hm, cannot find where 20060601 is hardcoded in the diff, but it's not that urgent anyway
[10:25] <highvoltage> Fujitsu: so I can just say: GnuPG Fingerprint: B9FD D720 AED9 28A1 7BD9  ABF5 B2BE AA0C DFDC 6CAE, and that will be enough?
[10:25] <mcsmurf> just a bit confusing when 2.0b2 2.0 RCs and 2.0 final had the same id
[10:25] <mcsmurf> :)
[10:26] <crimsun> mcsmurf: you can verify via the changelog that it's the official 2.0 release plus approved mozilla.com patches
[10:26] <mcsmurf> I looked at http://librarian.launchpad.net/4927395/firefox_2.0%2B0dfsg-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
[10:26] <mcsmurf> yes, I can also look at the version in the user-agent ;-)
[10:27] <mcsmurf> was just wondering if there is any "higher" sense behind hardcoding it
[10:27] <crimsun> ian's probably the one who could answer that
[10:40] <Chandu> hi
[10:41] <Chandu> Hey in Ubuntu Packages file , I saw these two fields .. From where do you add this lines  "Bugs: mailto:ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
[10:41] <Chandu> Origin: Ubuntu
[10:41] <Chandu> "
[10:43] <Chandu> I also found for package in universe section is mentioned as "universe/libs" like ..How you have changed section from libs to universe/libs
[10:44] <Lathiat> It seems level3 london is the culprit
[10:44] <Lathiat> Fujitsu, StevenK, etc
[10:45] <StevenK> I can reach launchpad now.
[10:45] <Lathiat> i can too
[10:45] <Lathiat> err, with loss
[10:46] <Lathiat> inconsistent loss
[10:47] <Lathiat> every so often, 30+s seocnds
[10:47] <Lathiat> it drops a string of packets from level3 onwards
[10:49] <Lathiat> http://lathiat.net/mtr.png
[11:06] <Hobbsee> hah @ [20:06]  * LaserJock thinks we should kidnap Hobbsee and make her speak at a UDS
[11:08] <lastnode_> which package is dh_pysupport a part of
[11:09] <Hobbsee> i'd take a stab at ebhelper
[11:09] <Hobbsee> gah.  my d key doesnt watn to wokr today
[11:09] <TheMuso> python-suppor
[11:09] <TheMuso> python-support
[11:09] <lastnode_> both are installed, newest versions
[11:12] <Hobbsee> ah
[11:17] <lastnode> /bin/sh: dh_pysupport: command not found
[11:17] <lastnode> make: *** [binary-arch]  Error 127
[11:17] <lastnode> any ideas, Hobbsee?
[11:17] <lastnode> ive purged and reinstalled, dapper , i386
[11:18] <TheMuso> lastnode: dpkg -L python-support and have a look for dh_pysupport
[11:18] <TheMuso> Just to be sure.
[11:18] <TheMuso> And do a which dh_pysupport for good measure as well.
[11:20] <giskard> hello
[11:21] <Hobbsee> lastnode: dh_pysupport isnt in dapper
[11:21] <Hobbsee> lastnode: dapper didnt do the python transition
[11:22] <lastnode_> oh right
[11:22] <lastnode_> meh, i gotta install edgy on my other partition though
[11:22] <lastnode_> Hobbsee, what is the dapper equiv of dh_support
[11:22] <lastnode_> dh_python?
[11:23] <Hobbsee> lastnode_: no idea, sorry
[11:23] <lastnode_> thanks Hobbsee
[11:25] <StevenK> dh_pysupport is different from dh_python.
[11:34] <Chandu> Hobbsee, hi
[11:34] <Chandu> Hobbsee, Hey How many days it will take to setup a new archive for new development release
[11:35] <Chandu> Hobbsee, For example how many it took to setup for feisty
[11:36] <Hobbsee> many man hours.
[11:36] <Hobbsee> Chandu: ^
[11:40] <Chandu> Hobbsee, approximately .. Total howmany members will be working on this ..
[11:41] <Chandu> Hobbsee, Bcz If I want to setup an archive for our project .. I want to estimate how mant dyas it may take ..How much time it needs ..How many members it needs
[11:42] <Mez> hmmm - anyone have instructions on how to make a sid pbuild in edgy - It just seems to be hanging on me
[11:42] <StevenK> Mez: What command line are you using?
[11:42] <Mez> StevenK, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/mythplugins/0.20-0.6ubuntu4
[11:42] <Mez> grr
[11:42] <Mez> sudo pbuilder create --distribution sid --basetgz /scratch/pbuilds/sid.tgz
[11:43] <StevenK> Wierd. Works here.
[11:44] <Mez> StevenK, it was my pbuilderrc pointing to archive.ubuntu.com
[11:44] <Mez> now I just need to find somewhere sid is on a server
[11:44] <Mez> archive.debian.org isnt so
[11:44] <StevenK> Heh, that'd do it.
[11:44] <StevenK> ftp.debian.org
[11:44] <StevenK> ftp.<countrycode>.debian.org
[11:44] <Chandu> Hobbsee, are you there
[11:46] <Mez> StevenK, still seems to be hanging on I: Retrieving Packages
[11:46] <StevenK> Mez: Give it a minute, the Packages.gz for Debian main is 5.6Mb or so.
[11:46] <Mez> 5.6Mb ?
[11:46] <Mez> wtf?
[11:47] <Mez> that's going to take forever ;)
[11:47] <StevenK> Heh
[11:47] <Mez> I only have to get it on create and update though right ?
[11:47] <StevenK> Correct.
[11:48] <Chandu> Hey can any one tell me How many days it takes for setting up the repo for the development release ... rebuilding all the debian sources and segregating between universe and main
[11:49] <Mez> aha, tis done
[11:52] <StevenK> Mez: Is that a *good* thing?
[11:53] <Mez> StevenK, I'm the maintainer ;) I should update it to the new version at some point
[11:53] <StevenK> Heh.
[11:54] <StevenK> I should probably fix some Debian bugs too.
[11:56] <Hobbsee> StevenK: not even fixing the linda ondes?
[11:56] <StevenK> No.
[11:56] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: around?
[12:12] <gnomefreak> dholbach: _all_ apps taht are canidates for the repos must have a rules file correct?
[12:13] <gnomefreak> s/taht/that
[12:13] <dholbach> yes, debian/rules is a must
[12:14] <gnomefreak> thought so
[12:14] <gnomefreak> k ty
[12:15] <Chandu> Hobbsee, I didnt answer to my query
[12:17] <Hobbsee> Chandu: i did answer  - it takes many man hours.  the amount of man hours would depend on the people's skills, and the tools they had to do it.  more than that, i cant help you with
[12:23] <Chandu> Hobbsee, ok ..thank you ....but can you tell me how many ubuntu members will be working on creating archive ..
[12:28] <bhale> Hobbsee: not yet
[12:28] <bhale> Hobbsee: he left on his own yesterday
[12:28] <Hobbsee> bhale: right
[12:28] <Hobbsee> bhale: was about to ask you about it, actually
[12:29] <bhale> not me please!
[12:29] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:29] <Hobbsee> "please dont throw me in the briar bush!" you say!
[12:30] <StevenK> Brer Rabbit!
[12:30] <StevenK> Oh geez, how long has it been.
[12:30] <bhale> I might ban him
[12:31] <Hobbsee> haha
[12:32] <Hobbsee> bhale: query?
[12:32] <bhale> Hobbsee: ok.
[12:32] <ajmitch> evening
[12:33] <StevenK> ajmitch: Early morning for you, isn't it? :-P
[12:35] <ajmitch> well yeah
[12:35] <ajmitch> but I've been at a friend's 21st & then at the pub
[12:37] <ajmitch> sigh, no flames
[12:37] <ajmitch> and no more names put forward
[12:37] <ajmitch> poor dholbach
[12:38] <Fujitsu> bhale: Ban whom?
[12:38] <bhale> Fujitsu: aulin
[12:38] <bhale> aualin
[12:38] <bhale> its done
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[12:38] <bhale> he is a repeat problem
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Oh, that guy.] 
[12:43] <dexem> dholbach: hey! you have been faster than me commenting the evolution TLS problem :P
[12:43] <dholbach> dexem: sorry :)
[12:43] <dexem> no prob :)
[12:43] <dexem> I'm the original reporter, and I keep getting the error
[12:43] <dexem> it's weird :S
[01:20] <marcin_ant> hi all
[01:20] <marcin_ant> I got question about development
[01:21] <marcin_ant> I would like to develop some web application especially for ubuntu
[01:21] <marcin_ant> and because ubuntu promotes python as favourite language I would like to use python
[01:22] <marcin_ant> but this is pretty weird because there is a lot of ways to use python with web development
[01:22] <marcin_ant> so I wolud like to ask if is there any preferred way to develop web application with python for ubuntu community?
[01:23] <marcin_ant> to name few we got fastcgi, mod_python, zope....
[01:28] <gnomefreak> ubuntu has zope already iirc
[01:28] <marcin_ant> gnomefreak: yes I know
[01:28] <gnomefreak> k
[01:29] <marcin_ant> gnomefreak: but to be honest I really don't like it... although I could write my code as zope 'product'
[01:30] <marcin_ant> gnomefreak: unfortunately imho zope is slow and designed in the way that I don't like at all...
[01:30] <gnomefreak> never used it
[01:34] <Hobbsee> bhale: oh dear.
[01:35] <fernando> ajmitch: how can i be involved in directory service team?
[01:36] <ajmitch> #ubuntu-directory, and the ubuntu-directory mailing list
[01:40] <imbrandon> ajmitch, got a sec ?
[01:40] <imbrandon> before ya head to bed
[01:40] <ajmitch> I suppose
[01:40] <imbrandon> 6 of the 7 have accepted the nomination ( only one left to have no is Hobbsee and i imagine she just hasent got to the email )
[01:41] <imbrandon> if you wanna change the LP team
[01:41] <StevenK> I'm the final one?
[01:41] <imbrandon> dholbach, siretart, crimsun, bddebian, imbrandon, sistopy , Stevenk
[01:41] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no, I don't want to change the LP team, it's not final by any means afaik
[01:42] <imbrandon> ok
[01:42] <imbrandon> thats fine
[01:42] <imbrandon> just wanted to hit you up before you headed to sleep
[01:42] <ajmitch> I'll wait for something a bit more decisive than people accepting nominations you've suggested :)
[01:42] <imbrandon> we can do it later once we get word then
[01:42] <thom> oh man, people are hitting steven and i missed out?
[01:42] <imbrandon> heh ok
[01:42] <StevenK> Thanks very much.
[01:43] <StevenK> I might just decline on the grounds that people think I'm an idiot.
[01:43] <ajmitch> though I should remove myself from the team since I'm not meant to be there
[01:44] <imbrandon> :)
[01:44] <imbrandon> i dont think you can untill the others are added can you ?
[01:44] <ajmitch> there, I'm out of the team
[01:44] <imbrandon> otherwise no one could add the new people
[01:44] <imbrandon> :)
[01:47] <ajmitch> now I don't have to worry about being pestered by anyone :)
[01:47] <imbrandon> heh
[01:49] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i did get the email
[02:51] <semente> How to suggest a package subclipse (Subversion integration for Eclipse)?
[02:56] <Adri2000> semente: add it to the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[02:57] <semente> Adri2000: I can edit? Ok.
[02:57] <Adri2000> of course you can :)
[02:59] <semente> Adri2000: Thanks for info.
[03:52] <Mez> hmm bberyl doesnt like my system
[03:55] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:05] <Mez> anyone here have much success with beryl?
[04:05] <siretart> Mez: I'm currently using it
[04:06] <siretart> for some values of 'using'
[04:06] <Mez> siretart, if i maximise a window - it just leaves me staring at my wallpaper.... any ideas?
[04:07] <siretart> Mez: don't maximise it. try to resize it several times
[04:07] <Mez> siretart, lol ....
[04:09] <siretart> Mez: beryl isn't really releasable yet. it has just too many bugs
[04:09] <iXce> strange problem
[04:09] <Mez> siretart: what about compiz .. is that working
[04:09] <Mez> I dont really want the composite manager (though that would be nice) I just want the cube, and the stuff that comes with the cube
[04:10] <iXce> if you've a bug with Beryl, just report it on the tracker
[04:10] <siretart> hehe, for the cube, you'll need a composite manager
[04:10] <Mez> darnit
[04:10] <iXce> it'll get fixed asap
[04:10] <Mez> and compiz-kde doesnt exist yet
[04:10] <siretart> iXce: you mean the trac?
[04:12] <iXce> yeah
[04:12] <iXce> Mez : Aquamarine, a KDE decorator for beryl, was pre-released yesterday
[04:12] <Mez> iXce, beryl does work with KDE though with emerald
[04:12] <iXce> bad wifi link.. sorry
[04:13] <iXce> Mez : sure
[04:13] <iXce> and it works pretty well
[04:13] <Mez> but ... ?
[04:13] <Mez> brb
[04:14] <iXce> and if you want kicker to be aware of compiz/beryl desktops, you just need compiz-kicker, a modified kicker
[04:14] <imbrandon> is it in kdesvn ?
[04:14] <iXce> hmm not sure
[04:15] <imbrandon> umm you forked kdebase too ?
[04:15] <iXce> not at all
[04:15] <siretart> * Reintroduce old resize plugin (as resizelegacy plugin) until the new one becomes perfect
[04:15] <iXce> and the kicker is not from any of the beryl/compiz guys :/
[04:15] <siretart> iXce: what was the problem with the 'new' resize plugin?
[04:15] <iXce> siretart : it just has a lot of bugs *g*
[04:15] <siretart> iXce: like the window doesn't get updated at all?
[04:16] <iXce> just try normal mode..
[04:16] <iXce> it should, but that may be a related issue yeah
[04:16] <siretart> what do you mean with 'normal' mode?
[04:16] <siretart> I think I'm using the 'new' resize plugin. if I deactivate it, then I cannot resize windows anymore
[04:18] <iXce> you're using svn?
[04:18] <iXce> if so, just check the "resizelegacy" plugin (it'll automatically disable the other one)
[04:19] <siretart> I'm using svn revision 842
[04:20] <siretart> perhaps I should update
[04:20] <iXce> oh yeah
[04:20] <iXce> we're at 952 now ;)
[04:20] <iXce> the resizelegacy was added last night
[04:20] <siretart> ah, that explains
[04:44] <siretart> iXce: dh_install: beryl-plugins-data missing files (debian/tmp/usr/share/beryl/*), aborting. any idea?
[04:44] <iXce> siretart : svn up ;)
[04:45] <iXce> * Fixed beryl-plugins/images/Makefile.am
[04:45] <siretart> doh
[04:45] <siretart> I updated to 951 5 min ago
[04:48] <Mez> iXce, where can i find logs for whats happening when it crashes?
[04:49] <iXce> Mez : basically you ought to get a .out in /tmp
[04:49] <iXce> you can also look at ~/.beryl.log
[04:49] <Mez> no ~/.beryl.log
[04:50] <Mez> and no a.out
[04:51] <iXce> not a.out :p i meant, a berylsomething.out
[04:51] <Mez> iXce, it will now and then work for a short while - but usually just dumps me looking at my desktop .... could be anything that triggers it ..
[04:51] <Mez> no .out files in /tmp
[04:51] <iXce> okay
[04:51] <iXce> did you enable the crashhandler plugin?
[04:52] <iXce> run beryl-settings
[04:52] <iXce> and check crashhandler
[04:52] <iXce> should be the 7th item in the left column
[04:52] <Mez> it's enabled
[04:53] <iXce> hmm strange
[04:53] <Mez> indeed
[04:53] <Mez> does it only output these files if beyrl crashes?
[04:53] <iXce> yeah
[04:54] <iXce> crashhandler output that .out in /tmp afaik
[04:54] <Mez> it may be xGl crashing (explaining why it just leaves me with my wallpaper
[04:54] <Mez> and nothing else (no kicker, etc etc)
[04:55] <iXce> what card are you using?
[04:55] <Mez> ATI Radeon 9200SE
[04:55] <iXce> hmm
[04:56] <iXce> why don't you try AIGLX + r300 drivers?
[04:56] <Mez> I mean, I had it running for a whole minute at one point (even doing cubey things)
[04:57] <iXce> yeah
[04:57] <Mez> but then crashed
[04:57] <Mez> beyrl should run on a defualt session if i do that right ?
[04:58] <iXce> yeah
[04:59] <Mez> if i do Option "Composite" "Enable" though, it disables dri
[04:59] <Mez> meaning the fglrx driver doesnt load
[05:03] <iXce> Mez : you don't need fglrx, but the free r300 driver :)
[05:06] <Mez> iXce, it doesnt crash with aiglx, but once beryl loads, everything is just white....
[05:07] <iXce> arg, the white problem
[05:07] <Mez> lol
[05:07] <iXce> i know how to fix it on gentoo, not on ubuntu *g*
[05:07] <Mez> known bug I take ?
[05:07] <Mez> you got a howto to fix on gentoo /
[05:08] <iXce> nah
[05:08] <iXce> on gentoo it's due to a bad glproto
[05:08] <iXce> (xorg, beryl & al have to be rebuild against new glproto stuff)
[05:08] <iXce> but it's not the same problem as on ubuntu
[05:08] <_MMA_> Ha! iXce: your being more help here then the guys in #beryl. :)
[05:08] <Mez> lol ...
[05:08] <lastnode> _MMA_, iXce IS from beryl xD
[05:09] <_MMA_> I know. :)
[05:09] <Mez> iXce, so it would need a recompile for it to work ?
[05:09] <iXce> Mez : nah, i don't think so
[05:09] <_MMA_> lastnode: Ive been chattin with him this morning in #ubuntustudio. :)
[05:10] <Mez> iXce, how is it fixed in gentoo?
[05:11] <iXce> http://wiki.gentoo-xeffects.org/FAQ#How_do_I_get_rid_of_the_white_screen.3F
[05:12] <iXce> sounds like some of the bugs described in http://bugs.beryl-project.org/ticket/469
[05:12] <Mez> iXce, I think I may no why it happens
[05:12] <Mez> I used
[05:13] <iXce> oh?
[05:13] <Mez> beeorkid to start with, then moved to use the SVN snapshots... maybe if I reinstalled from the SVN snapshot it'd be cool
[05:14] <iXce> maybe
[05:15] <Mez> what packages are auto-updated when I apt-get upgrade ?
[05:15] <Mez> ? xserver-xgl libgl1-mesa xserver-xorg libglitz-glx1 beryl emerald-themes
[05:15] <iXce> xserver-xorg shouldn't be updated
[05:15] <iXce> nor any of the other packages
[05:15] <iXce> the only one may be the libxcomposite0.3
[05:16] <Mez> i remember something to do with mesa being updated
[05:19] <Mez> brb i hope
[05:25] <Mez> iXce, a lot of bugs have been posted saying it's a configuration issue ?
[05:25] <iXce> yeah
[05:25] <iXce> the thing is that it's an easy nvidia bug, and an easy gentoo bug
[05:25] <iXce> oh yeah
[05:25] <iXce> how is you Option "Composite" ?
[05:26] <Mez> "Enabled" or something similar to that
[05:26] <iXce> silly me
[05:26] <iXce> a min please
[05:26] <Mez> Section "Extensions"
[05:26] <Mez>         Option      "Composite" "Enable"
[05:26] <Mez> EndSection
[05:26] <Mez> .
[05:27] <pianoboy3333> Do any of you have debs for gaim b4?
[05:27] <iXce> pianoboy3333 : look on the forum ;)
[05:28] <Mez> iXce, should it not be set to that ?
[05:28] <iXce> my wifi is really laggy :/
[05:28] <pianoboy3333> iXce: I did, those are crappy debs, I want gaim 4 split like it is in the ubuntu repositories
[05:28] <iXce> a min please ;)
[05:28] <Mez> kk
[05:28] <dholbach> pianoboy3333, iXce: can you please tell people that if they file bug reports, they mention were they got the packages from?
[05:29] <iXce> pianoboy3333 : there are good debs as well ;) build with ubuntu debian/
[05:29] <iXce> dholbach : err, it sounds obvious that such people won't post bug reports for such packages :/
[05:29] <dholbach> pianoboy3333, iXce: we get loads of bug reports on gaim, lots of crasher bugs and some of them are related to wonky plugins and other weird stuff - which always causes headaches and lots of questions
[05:30] <iXce> :/
[05:30] <dholbach> iXce: you say that now :)
[05:30] <dholbach> i'm happy you work on gaim
[05:30] <_MMA_> iXce: You would think but it happens. :)
[05:30] <iXce> dholbach : was just replying to pianoboy3333 who was asking for packages :p
[05:30] <iXce> _MMA_ : yeah i know..
[05:31] <iXce> we're really sorry (the beryl team) for the bugs you may get about beryl on launchpad
[05:31] <dholbach> they'll get into feisty (and maybe into -backports - that remains to be seen)
[05:31] <dholbach> I just thought I'd tell you, as I spent a lot of my time on figuring out crasher bugs the last days.
[05:32] <iXce> okay :)
[05:35] <pianoboy3333> iXce: what do you mean build with ubuntu debian/?
[05:38] <iXce> pianoboy3333 : i mean, clean packages built as would good packagers do
[05:40] <imbrandon> oh wow , after all the press about upgrade issues people are still recomending packages from the forums /me gives up
[05:41] <earthian> hello
[05:41] <pianoboy3333> iXce: but do you know of any split packages? like I'm looking for gaim, gaim-dev, gaim-data and so on packages, not just one big thing
[05:41] <zul> imbrandon: people will never learn and ill stop it at that
[05:41] <earthian> dmraid is till same not working version.
[05:41] <iXce> imbrandon : he's asking for gaim beta4 packages - the only place you can get some are the forums - should i just tell him : keep beta 3?
[05:41] <iXce> Mez : try replacing Enable by 0
[05:41] <earthian> can somebody spend a little time and compile the newest one so it will work with the new edgy kernel version?
[05:41] <pianoboy3333> iXce: .... I'm right here....
[05:42] <imbrandon> iXce, yes, that would be the recomended way untill they can be properly packages / uploaded/ and tested
[05:42] <iXce> i'll do that then
[05:42] <pianoboy3333> Fine
[05:42] <iXce> sorry -
[05:42] <pianoboy3333> lol
[05:42] <pianoboy3333> I'll try uupdating
[05:42] <earthian> or at least mail the creator with the problems... i still cant use my PC because DMRAID package is not finding my damn array :( if i just knew wtf is going with thise stupid raid i would never had one..
[05:43] <iXce> now you'll get a ticket with unpackaged stuff.
[05:43] <earthian> and i am ready to test it etc.
[05:43] <earthian> :0
[05:43] <imbrandon> earthian, yes there is a SRU in the works for it, it still hasent been updated from 2 or 3 days ago when you asked last
[05:43] <earthian> yes... i am still *waiting*
[05:44] <earthian> because i do not find any alternative atm
[05:44] <imbrandon> earthian, well it will likely be the end of next week before anything is even in -proposed
[05:44] <earthian> anyway.. i am here just to remind. :)
[05:44] <earthian> :
[05:44] <earthian> sadly :/
[05:45] <imbrandon> iXce, no , not that wont get rejected that is , even packaged software gets rejected if its not in the archive
[05:46] <iXce> that's not better, in both case you'll get a bug anyway ;)
[05:46] <iXce> Mez : try replacing Enable by 0
[05:46] <imbrandon> iXce, the proper way would be to have those that make the packages on the forums go through the processes like us all to get them in the archive
[05:46] <Mez> iXce, mez@apathy:~$ beryl
[05:46] <Mez> XGL Absent, checking for NVIDIA
[05:46] <Mez> Nvidia Absent, assuming AIGLX
[05:46] <Mez> beryl: No composite extension
[05:46] <iXce> argh
[05:46] <imbrandon> anything ele isnt relevant and can and will cause issues ( thus all the blog's about problems )
[05:47] <iXce> Mez : please ask DBO ;)
[05:47] <Mez> iXce, I gotta be up in 3 hours... :D
[05:47] <Mez> DBO's another devel then ?
[05:47] <iXce> nah
[05:48] <iXce> he's our main helper ;)
[05:49] <Mez> lol - fair enough - I'll poke him tomorrow, or you if you;re around and he isnt
[05:49] <iXce> okay ;)
[06:01] <cbx33> does anyone here speak japanese?
[06:36] <luisbg> hello all
[06:44] <gnomefreak> someone really hates me today :( i did updates today and it broke everything :(
[06:44] <crimsun> kinda vague, no?
[06:45] <gnomefreak> crimsun: reset my /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[06:45] <crimsun> I didn't see any updates today regarding X.Org
[06:45] <plugwash> gnomefreak you upgraded from dapper to edgy?
[06:45] <gnomefreak> to basic options. i dont remember what the 3 were
[06:45] <gnomefreak> plugwash: no i did the 3-4 updates this am
[06:46] <gnomefreak> i wanna say libruby... was one
[06:46] <crimsun> yes, but none of those go near xorg.conf
[06:46] <gnomefreak> thats what i thought too
[06:47] <gnomefreak> there were no other updates that i have seen. but for somereason i reboot and all hell breaks loose
[06:48] <gnomefreak> and erased all my backgrounds. everything seemed to be reset to defaults
[06:51] <gnomefreak> ill dig into later it just grabbed me as weird/kind of scary. see everyone later
[06:58] <plugwash> i see a new version of libc6 has hit feisty
[06:58] <plugwash> i guess the compilers and such are next
[07:09] <keescook> hm, is there already wiki page that goes over how to build a new package from a debdiff, for people that don't know how to do it?
[07:09] <keescook> I showed someone on #ubuntu how to do it, as he was anxious for the vino fix.
[07:09] <keescook> After a quick search, I didn't find anything I could point them to.
[07:09] <LaserJock> keescook: not specifically, but the Ubuntu Packaging Guide might help a little
[07:10] <LaserJock> but it's a bit much for just apply debdiff and dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[07:10] <keescook> LaserJock: I was thinking more along the lines of the audience being people that really don't want to know all the gritty details, but want an updated .deb quickly
[07:10] <keescook> yeah
[07:10] <LaserJock> keescook: the next version of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide will have that
[07:11] <keescook> I think it'll write one up.  I've wanted to have it to point people to a few times now
[07:11] <LaserJock> I just haven't gotten to it yet
[07:11] <keescook> ah, cool.
[07:11] <keescook> LaserJock: where do you recommend I put it in the wiki?  MOTU/BuildFromDebdiff or something?
[07:12] <LaserJock> keescook: hmm, I guess so
[07:12] <LaserJock> I'll incorporate it into the Packaging Guide eventually so it shouldn't be a permanent spot
[07:13] <keescook> sure.  where would you like me to put a "rough draft"?
[07:14] <LaserJock> well, if you want you could put it under the packaging guide namespace
[07:15] <LaserJock> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/BuildFromDebdiff would be good
[07:15] <keescook> okay, cool
[07:16] <LaserJock> thanks dude
[07:21] <dholbach> LaserJock: we should link that from MOTU/Documentation or something
[07:21] <dholbach> LaserJock: and maybe move the sitemap to MOTU/Sitemap or something
[07:29] <_MMA_> You guys might like this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=290533
[07:33] <giskard> hello dholbach LaserJock :)
[07:37] <Burgwork> Amaranth: ping
[07:39] <luisbg> hey LaserJock =)
[07:40] <Amaranth> Burgwork: pong, lagging badly
[07:40] <Amaranth> ooh, fixed lag
[07:41] <Burgwork> pm
[07:41] <iXce> huhu
[07:41] <giskard> hello iXce
[07:42] <iXce> hi giskard
[07:43] <LaserJock> dholbach: yeah, we need a massive wiki cleanup
[07:44] <LaserJock> it's just a lot of work that not many people want to do ;-)
[07:45] <giskard> LaserJock: i can take a look on it... but i need to know what are our needs.
[07:45] <LaserJock> clean, concise, and updates wiki pages that are easy to read :-)
[07:46] <LaserJock> *updated
[07:46] <giskard> LaserJock: i mean, we need a stable *skeleton* for MOTU :)
[07:50] <ajmitch> morning all
[07:50] <fernando> ajmitch: hi
[07:50] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[07:51] <keescook> LaserJock: rough draft done!  :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/BuildFromDebdiff
[07:52] <keescook> heya ajmitch
[07:52] <ajmitch> hey keescook, how's it going/
[07:52] <LaserJock> dholbach: do you  have any idea at all if we are going to have only 1 freeze (Universe Freeze) in feisty too?
[07:52] <keescook> ajmitch: busy USN day for me.  :)
[07:52] <LaserJock> keescook: yep, saw it in my email
[07:52] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it'll probably be discussed at UDS, do you think this should change?
[07:53] <LaserJock> well, I did kinda like having UVF and FF
[07:54] <LaserJock> so there wasn't a mad dash for *everything* at the end
[07:54] <LaserJock> but having just one was much simpler
[07:55] <ajmitch> also whether all universe uploads need approval at RC freeze
[07:55] <bhale> people could just start working on unmet deps sooner than the last minute
[07:55] <dholbach> LaserJock: not yet, but I think we should do it - the discussions have not happened yet
[07:56] <LaserJock> bhale: yes, I hope that task lists and weekly reports will help with that
[07:56] <bhale> i stopped doing things after beta
[07:56] <bhale> in edgy
[07:56] <bhale> possibly because i am lazy
[07:58] <LaserJock> well, we seemed to freeze a little harder this time
[07:58] <LaserJock> not that many exceptions it seemed to me
[07:58] <bhale> i didnt even try for any after  beta
[07:58] <bhale> beta freeze
[07:59] <ajmitch> LaserJock: because people stopped trying
[08:01] <hub> http://www.advogato.org/person/roozbeh/diary.html?start=130 <- that would be a good package candidate
[08:02] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I'd have to say "You have to get approval for *all* uploads" compared to "You have to get approval for new upstream versions and new packages" made a difference
[08:03] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I was disappointed to not even see many people try for freeze exceptions
[08:03] <bhale> ajmitch: tehre is more paper work every time
[08:04] <LaserJock> well, I just had way to many things, once Universe Freeze hit I moved on to other things
[08:05] <LaserJock> I just figured if they want it frozen then fine
[08:05] <LaserJock> the whole "Lets freeze but expect lots of exceptions" is a bit confusing for people I think
[08:05] <zul> I think most people did..
[08:06] <bhale> we also have alot more people now
[08:06] <bhale> i guess
[08:06] <bhale> there used to be 20 uploaders
[08:06] <zul> how many are there now?
[08:06] <bhale> loads
[08:07] <LaserJock> well, there are 57 MOTUs listed
[08:07] <LaserJock> more core-devs too
[08:07] <bhale> that 57 should overlap with core dev
[08:07] <bhale> but there are 30 in there
[08:07] <bhale> last i looked
[08:08] <LaserJock> 40 members of -core-dev
[08:08] <LaserJock> I'm guess around 10 as the overlap
[08:08] <bhale> i guess.
[08:09] <LaserJock> so that's close to 80 uploaders
[08:12] <LaserJock> what's more important to me is the number of MOTU that are active
[08:12] <LaserJock> I was going to get the number of MOTUs that made an upload in Edgy
[08:12] <ajmitch> "80 people are members in total, directly and indirectly through other team memberships. "
[08:12] <luisbg> but maybe those 80 are not active
[08:13] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ah yeah
[08:25] <bddebian> LaserJock: Good plan! :-)
[08:25] <zul> faster pussycat kill kill
[08:37] <LaserJock> yikes, over 200 pages with "MOTU" in the title
[08:37] <LaserJock> stupid redirects
[08:38] <iXce> LaserJock in SAW III :p
[08:38] <LaserJock> Wiki Chainsaw Massacre
[08:50] <LaserJock> and another one bites the dust
[08:50] <bhale> ?
[08:51] <LaserJock> deleting wiki pages
[08:51] <bhale> oh.
[08:51] <bhale> exciting
[08:56] <bddebian> Who the heck is this bhale guy? ;-)
[08:57] <bhale> bddebian: sigh
[08:57] <bhale> sick of hearing about it
[08:57] <bddebian> :-(  Sorry
[09:07] <Amaranth> bddebian: Something about losing tseng in a back alley... :P
[09:08] <bhale> abock, snorp, tberman, now bddebian
[09:08] <bhale> i cant escape the whiners
[09:09] <Amaranth> At least they still know who you are
[09:09] <bddebian> I wasn't whining, just commenting.. Sheesh :'-(
[09:09] <bhale> Amaranth: im famous and stuff
[09:10] <Amaranth> Before I started using freenode I was 'Travis'. When I switched to Amaranth no one would believe I was the same person. :P
[09:10] <bhale> i had tseng since OPN
[09:10] <bhale> which most of you kids don't remember
[09:11] <luisbg> bhale, you are old :P
[09:11] <bhale> hah
[09:11] <bhale> 22!
[09:12] <luisbg> I use "d33p" for most creative stuff, and luisbg for foss
[09:12] <lifeless> I've had lifeless since uhm, 92 IIRC
[09:12] <Amaranth> heh, 22 is old :P
[09:13] <Amaranth> in 92 i didn't even know what AOL was
[09:13] <luisbg> Amaranth, how old are you unexperienced man?
[09:13] <Amaranth> 19
[09:13] <luisbg> too bad girls prefere them more experienced and mature :P
[09:14] <bhale> yeah
[09:14] <iXce> :p
[09:15] <bhale> i dont remember what year opn was
[09:15] <bhale> 98 or 99
[09:15] <luisbg> opn?
[09:15] <bhale> irc.openprojects.net
[09:15] <luisbg> oohh
[09:15] <bhale> it was the forerunner to freenode
[09:15] <bhale> (and irc.oftc.net)
[09:16] <luisbg> I see
[09:16] <luisbg> when I joined in the foss lifestyle... freenode was already there
[09:18] <luisbg> bhale, how did you enter foss?
[09:25] <bddebian> 22 is Old?? WTF???
[09:25] <luisbg> bddebian must be like 30 :P
[09:25] <zul> there is nothing wrong with being 30
[09:26] <luisbg> zul, haven't said that
[09:26] <herzi> zul: not? ;)
[09:26] <bddebian> luisbg: 36 man
[09:28] <luisbg> bddebian, like kevin smith
[09:31] <luisbg> what is "your own wiki homepage"? at the motu wiki
[09:33] <bhale> luisbg: hm
[09:33] <bhale> luisbg: i started working on gentoo many years ago now
[09:33] <luisbg> bhale, cool
[09:41] <LaserJock> luisbg: like mine is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha
[09:42] <luisbg> I want to get one so I can keep a list of my contributions... like right now... the unmet bug fixes
[09:43] <luisbg> what do I have to do?
[09:44] <luisbg> can I just create an empty page? or should I contribute more to be worth one
[09:45] <LaserJock> luisbg: just go to the URL you want to use
[09:46] <luisbg> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LuisdeBethencourt <----create an empty page
[09:46] <luisbg> I ment that
[09:46] <LaserJock> yep
[09:46] <LaserJock> oh wait
[09:47] <LaserJock> is there a Homepage template on the left side?
[09:47] <LaserJock> or Personal page or something to that effect
[09:47] <luisbg> yes, much better =)
[09:48] <_MMA_> "but got tired of the compiling and tweaking and I wasn't spending as much time using my computer as working on it." -LaserJock :)
[09:49] <_MMA_> Crap. Wrong page. :)
[09:49] <LaserJock> geeze, that's an old quote
[10:20] <LaserJock> hhmmm, interesting post from Mark
[10:22] <TheMuso> Wow. A security update already.
[10:23] <lotusleaf> I've discovered some packages in universe which say they cannot be installed because they require another package which isn't available. Where do I report this?
[10:23] <LaserJock> it should be already known
[10:24] <LaserJock> but Launchpad is the place to look
[10:24] <lotusleaf> LaserJock: Righteous, thank you.
[10:26] <LaserJock> darn, it's too bad you don't get karma for wiki work
[10:27] <LaserJock> 15 pages down the drain so far
[10:31] <TheMuso> heh
[10:34] <LaserJock> maybe somebody should post a comment to Marks post saying "I'd rather just have Launchpad work" ;-)
[10:35] <ajmitch> "I'd rather just have Launchpad Free"
[10:35] <LaserJock> heh
[10:35] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I'm with you.
[10:35] <LaserJock> talking about getting people together
[10:35] <ajmitch> get us all together, on a proprierary platform
[10:36] <TheMuso> What post are we talking about anyway?
[10:36] <LaserJock> TheMuso: Mark's planet post
[10:36] <TheMuso> WHich one?
[10:36] <LaserJock> his last one
[10:36] <TheMuso> About packaging?
[10:36] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:41] <giskard> there is autopackage. you can use it through auto*
[10:41] <giskard> but..i guess this is not a good idea.
[10:42] <ajmitch> no, not it's not a good idea
[10:42] <ajmitch> autopackage is not nice
[10:44] <LaserJock> maybe he wants to replace everything with bzr :-)
[10:45] <giskard> ahahaha
[10:45] <TheMuso> Heh at comment 20.
[10:45] <giskard> hello ajmitch
[10:45] <TheMuso> And 19
[10:46] <LaserJock> none of them seem particularly spectacular to me
[10:46] <ajmitch> hi giskard
[10:47] <TheMuso> I think its people wanting Linux to work like Windows, in terms of packaging anyway.
[10:47] <LaserJock> I think it's more people wanting to get the latest crack as fast as they can
[10:48] <ajmitch> like firefox, the minute it's released
[10:48] <luisbg> LaserJock, I still have 0 karma points :(
[10:48] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[10:49] <nixternal> speaking of LP, check out bug 69768
[10:49] <Ubugtu> Bug 69768 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/69768 is private
[10:49] <nixternal> oh, now it says it is private
[10:49] <_MMA_> So theres no merit to wanting to have a standard? Even if to further unite GNU/Linux?
[10:55] <ajmitch> nixternal: what was it?
[10:56] <nixternal> private i guess, it just didn't say that, it was blank
[10:56] <nixternal> why/how do they mark it private?
[10:56] <TheMuso> When you report a bug, there is an option to mark a bug private.
[10:56] <nixternal> ah, never noticed that
[10:56] <TheMuso> THere is probably also an option that can be set after the bug has been reported as well I guess.
[11:05] <imbrandon> for major security problems
[11:05] <imbrandon> so they are not publicly said before the fix is out
[11:17] <imbrandon> TheMuso, you said you have had streaming working before
[11:17] <imbrandon> with a set playlist ? or could you choose it as you went along ?
[11:27] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Streaming? What streaming are you referring to
[11:29] <imbrandon> icecast
[11:29] <imbrandon> i just want a simple way to stream some music
[11:29] <imbrandon> from a playlist i choose as it go's along
[11:29] <imbrandon> and i cant seem to find a solution
[11:30] <TheMuso> I think Icecast can do that.
[11:31] <TheMuso> I have only ever used it for live broadcasting.
[11:33] <imbrandon> even live is fine but for some reason when i set it to stream live it only picks up my microphone , not the music
[11:33] <imbrandon> using ices2 or what ever its called
[11:33] <TheMuso> Well I think that you can actually set up shoutcast itself to read from a playlist file.
[11:34] <TheMuso> You'd have to check though.
[11:34] <imbrandon> yea , id rather use like xmms or amarok to play the music so i can make changes to the playlist as i go along
[11:34] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:34] <imbrandon> thats the main issue, i can use icecast to play a playlist file
[11:34] <TheMuso> Well, you could use mpd to stream to icecast, and then use a GUI mpd client to control the playlist.
[11:35] <imbrandon> mpd will stream to icecast?
[11:35] <TheMuso> You can make it do so yes.
[11:35] <imbrandon> that would probably work out great
[11:35] <TheMuso> I remember reading about it on the mpd wiki.
[11:35] <imbrandon> nice, thanks, i'll look up that
[11:35] <ajmitch> hm
[11:36] <ajmitch> sru stuff has gone nowhere again
[11:36] <TheMuso> imbrandon: http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Configuration#Icecast
[11:37] <imbrandon> TheMuso, thanks
[11:37] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
[11:37] <ajmitch> StevenK: humbly, giving thanks to everyone who nominated you, with a tearful speech?
[11:39] <StevenK> ajmitch: Only thanking people who nominated me? Hah, I'd have to start with Linus, and work down.
[11:39] <imbrandon> lol
[11:40] <TheMuso> hahaha
[11:40] <ajmitch> probably still got a day or two for nominations
[11:41] <imbrandon> yea i think dholbach said something about friday, not certain though
[11:42] <ajmitch> yes, he did