pips1there are lots of "atomic" specs in LP and that's very confusing... one spends too much time simply opening all those "mini"-spec pages12:18
pips1ogra: what do you think about Burgwork suggestion for a "bridge"- or common spec for that whole network-integration/identity management stuff (ldap, auth, ...) ?12:21
ograbut lets do that at UDS12:21
ograif wE're all in one room to discuss it12:21
ogralets not clutter LP more than it needs in advance12:22
Burgworkwhy I am cursing my fracking employer right now12:22
pips1but you said that without a spec, meetings don't happen, because the schedule is already booked out?12:22
Burgworkno, the schedule can flex12:22
pips1good to hear that :)12:22
Burgworkif you meet about something, and that breaks into three or four specs, or specs get merge, the schedule changes12:23
pips1ok, I shall not worry too much12:23
Burgworkonly the first day is decided ahead of time12:23
pips1got to get some sleep now, cu folks12:25
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lguerrasi, si lo veo01:51
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lguerrasorry, 01:52
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sbalneavEvening all03:59
sbalneavHey LaserJock04:02
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eSeonganyone here could get dlink dwl-122 usb to work on ubuntu ?05:07
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kwakhi RichEd07:41
RichEdhi kwak07:41
kwakim installing my edubuntu test machine today on a virtual server.07:41
RichEdgood luck :)07:42
kwaki wanted to test it first before removing k1207:42
eSeongRichEd.. i install edubunbtu done..07:42
eSeongbut i could not interfere with my adapter :(07:42
kwakim new to debian. you know any guide in using edubuntu.07:43
kwakeSeong, what do you mean?07:43
RichEdkwak: there is a document page ... let me find the link'07:43
kwakinterfere? interface?07:43
=== eSeong sorry for my broken english.
kwakyou can't configure the network adapters you mean?07:44
eSeongthey never support.07:45
eSeongmy dlink dwl-122 :(07:45
RichEdkwak: http://www.edubuntu.org/Documentation07:45
Kamping_KaisereSeong, i have a dwl-something, but i lent it to a mate, so i'm not sure what the exact number is. it doesnt work in dapper, it might in edgy though07:45
kwakthanks RichEd07:53
RichEdLaserJock: you alive atm ?07:54
LaserJockwhy yes07:54
RichEdjust in another channel :)07:55
RichEddof question ... I am busy registering my attendance at UDS and I see that everyone's availability date starts with 2006-11-06 ... what happened to sunday ?07:56
LaserJockit's UTC time07:57
RichEdi thought about that but 09.00hrs on Sunday 5th November (local time) is 09:00+8:00 to get to UTC which is still in Sunday ?07:59
LaserJockI don't know08:00
RichEdokay ... not serious ... just was wondering08:00
LaserJockoh, well I think I did put in that I would get there Saturday night maybe08:00
LaserJockI just kinda did what everybody else was doing ;-)08:01
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RichEdLaserJock: how and where do your dynamic menus fit into feisty and UDS ... got time for a quick chat ?08:10
LaserJockI registered a spec for Mt. View08:11
LaserJockbut I'm only going to be at Mt. View Sunday and Monday08:11
LaserJockand it's set at Medium priority08:11
LaserJockso I'm not sure how to handle that yet08:12
LaserJockRichEd: what do you want to know?08:13
RichEdLaserJock: no problems re date limitations ... pips1 also will be there until tuesday ... so we will try to get our discussions set for early days08:13
RichEdWell we think (in the meeting discussion yesterday) that your dynamic menus kind of overlap to some degree with our need for Edubuntu Secondary and Edubuntu University "editions" ... so wanted to get the discussions overlapping as well08:14
LaserJockyes, in fact I'm very interested in all of those08:15
RichEdright ... let me see how I can fit these together in some way ... will chat more later08:16
LaserJockI'm also interested in expanding the menu stuff into general user management08:17
LaserJockI don't think the current Gnome user management tools are very friendly for school admins08:17
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BurgundaviaLaserJock: user management is an interesting one08:18
Burgundaviaconfig management in general08:18
Burgundaviathis landscape-client stuff is what I am sort of waiting for08:19
LaserJockthere are all these bits and pieces08:19
Burgundaviathe key piece is we need a unified effort08:19
LaserJockbut we need to pull things together08:20
LaserJockI've wondered if we should make SCP plugins08:21
Burgundaviascp is one interesting piece08:21
Burgundaviascp needs to work across a network08:21
Burgundaviamade a more general admin tool08:21
LaserJockyeah, I just don't know what exactly to do08:22
LaserJockseems like we need to make sure we have the underlying systems and then interface that to SCP or something08:23
Burgundaviahere is part of what you need to do08:23
Burgundaviatell Mark to get the landscape-client stuff on the table08:23
Burgundaviauntil then, it is all talk, becuase there is no sane reason to duplicate effort08:24
Burgundaviaand landscape client is going to be installed on every ubuntu machine out there08:24
Burgundaviadapper, edgy, and onwards08:24
LaserJockwhen? this is the first I've heard of it08:24
Burgundaviathere is an empty package in dapper and edgy08:25
LaserJockbut is there code?08:25
LaserJockis it more then  vapor-ware?08:25
Burgundaviayes, within Cancomical towers08:25
LaserJockyeah, well08:26
Burgundaviabut do you see the issue?08:27
Burgundaviaany attempt to create a client and get it into Ubuntu is going to fail08:27
Burgundaviaby default, at any rate08:28
Burgundaviahowever, threatening to create such a client would probably force Mark to get on with it08:28
LaserJockwell, I wasn't thinking of anything like that I don't think08:29
LaserJockI just want tools that a teacher or admin can use to manage Edubuntu installs08:30
Burgundaviabut once you start talking about changing things on a mass scale you need a client08:30
LaserJockI'm thinking user control and dynamic menus08:31
LaserJockbut I see where having that sort of thing will be good in the future08:31
Burgundaviabut you need an agent on the client side to do stuff, in the case of user control08:32
LaserJockit all happens on the same machine08:33
LaserJockit's an LTSP server08:33
Kamping_Kaiserone thing i think would be a help is an easy way to make preseeded cds. you can make things as easy as you want, but if you cant easily do a mass deplyment the way you need, its a bit useless :|08:33
Burgundaviawhat about large deployments with multiple servers?08:33
Burgundaviawhat about fat clients?08:33
LaserJockwe aren't there yet08:33
Burgundaviayes, actually, we are08:34
LaserJockI mean, it'd be nice08:34
Burgundaviapeople are deploying them, therefor we need to consider those use cases08:34
Burgundaviathink outside Edubuntu for a second08:34
LaserJockI know I know08:34
BurgundaviaI have 3 machines at work, with 7 users08:34
BurgundaviaI want a single control panel for all those machines08:34
LaserJockbut we can dream all we want, but we have to have people to implement this stuff08:34
LaserJockwhat can we realistically do in Feisty08:35
Burgundaviawell, depends what Mark does with landscape08:35
Burgundaviait is quite doable, assuming he plays along08:35
LaserJockI'm not going to rely on Mark for anything08:35
nixternalhaven't they been working on Landscape now for like 6 months supposedly?08:36
Burgundavialandscape has a complete server side as well08:36
nixternalis it another LP project in the making?08:36
nixternalkept behind locked doors with the possibility of it being released before the polar ice caps melt and we all drown08:36
Burgundaviathe server is going to be closed source08:37
Burgundaviabut the client, miracles of miracles, must be shipped with Ubuntu08:37
Burgundaviathus it must be open source08:37
nixternalim not liking the sound of "closed source" at all08:37
=== Kamping_Kaiser agrees with nixternal on this
nixternalit goes against the philosophy...whats next?08:37
BurgundaviaI could care less about the server side08:37
BurgundaviaI just want to see the client and its code08:37
nixternalsvn diff philosophy.orig philosophy.new > closed_source_muhahah.diff08:38
Burgundaviathe community can replicate teh server side quite easily08:38
LaserJockBurgundavia: sure, if we have a client then that's cool08:38
BurgundaviaI know that if we go and do the client, we are not going to get it accepted by default08:38
nixternalreplicating == duplicating == time lost on other important projects08:38
nixternalwow, that was intuative08:39
nixternalmaybe i should think next time before i speak08:39
BurgundaviaI suggest you gusy all email mark and ask him08:39
Burgundavialay it out, exactly which specs are being slowed down because of it08:39
Kamping_Kaisernixternal, yes, it also puts you competeing with yourself in this instance08:39
LaserJock Burgundavia: well, I'm not in a place to do that08:39
nixternalno doubt, as i duplicated myself there ;)08:39
BurgundaviaLaserJock: yes, yes you are08:40
Kamping_Kaisernix ;)08:40
BurgundaviaLaserJock: if you are planning to work on scp in Feisty, you need to tell Mark you work is being slowed down because of his inaction08:41
BurgundaviaI think Mark is thinking like a magician on this one: The grand flourish of the release08:41
RichEdKamping_Kaiser / Burgundavia / nixternal : while I don't pretend to 100% understand all of what you are discussing above :) there is a lot of overlap with the discussion in the meeting yesterday stemming from feature requests from posts to the edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-user mailing list08:45
highvoltageugh @ landscape08:45
RichEdthere is a page in progress here with the user requests extracted into one place: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu08:46
RichEdI am working through the meeting changes to the page now08:46
RichEdWe thought that quite a few of the requests that originated as "school requests" applied to ubuntu environments and requirements as well ... like remote takeover of workstations etc.08:47
Burgundaviahighvoltage: why so? the closed source nature of it?08:47
highvoltageBurgundavia: yes. launchpad is already causing me some... well, 'irritation', for lack of better word08:48
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highvoltageBurgundavia: I noticed landscape in the archives a while back and asked on -devel, but no one wanted to tell me much about it :/08:48
BurgundaviaI don't pretend to understand Mark, but I think I know why he is doing this08:48
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Burgundaviahe loves the "grand unveil"08:48
highvoltagehe does.08:49
Burgundaviait worked well with Ubuntu, because there was no community08:49
Burgundavianow there is and we are getting annoyed08:49
highvoltagebut it's against the release early and often nature of Ubuntu08:49
Burgundaviayes, yes it is08:49
highvoltageif it's good and worthwhile, debian will rewrite it... eventually... so there is some hope at least08:50
highvoltageit probably sounds silly, and I'm not sure if I should mention this yet...08:52
RichEdhighvoltage: that debian comment brings up a question I had in mind ... in general, how do we stay in touch with what is being developed upstream and which will become available to us, to avoid duplicate dev effort. does it just rely on informal communication ?08:52
highvoltagebut for tuxlab, we want some of the launchpad infrastructure, but I don't want to force a proprietary product on our users08:53
highvoltageso I thought of rewriting the launchpad functionality that we need in something like django. we would be able to have most of what we need in a mini-launchpad.08:53
highvoltageRichEd: if you make the upstream landscape proprietary, you can't avoid duplication, really08:54
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LaserJockBurgundavia: the big thing here is we don't really have any developers for this stuff08:55
LaserJockwe're a distro and I'm not sure we can do a lot of upstream development kind of things08:55
Burgundaviawe are upstream for managment software08:55
LaserJockbut should we be?08:55
Burgundaviafor now, yes08:55
LaserJockogra can't do everything?08:56
Burgundaviait is more a peer to peer thing08:56
pygiwell, we have community to do some of upstream products which then can be merged into several distros08:56
pyginot only Ubuntu family 08:56
RichEdI meant more along the lines of the "request" yesterday for us to add a feature to allow Mac and Win to log onto and into a *buntu domain and use resources in an authenticated manner. We debated that this may be developed by debian or a 3rd party (if there was a percieved need)08:56
BurgundaviaRichEd: the other way around is more interesting08:56
Burgundaviaubuntu to AD08:56
Burgundaviaas windows to Ubuntu requires a server08:57
RichEdBurgundavia: there is a directory group & strong focus on this for MV08:57
BurgundaviaI am part of the founding group of people on the ubuntu-directory team08:58
Burgundaviawe are not thinking server right now08:58
RichEdSo, I am not really homing in on the feature, but the concept ... how do we know what is being done by others (which we can use) when we plan new developments ?08:58
Burgundaviaon the ldap server side, there are two interesting things08:59
Burgundaviasamba4 and FDS08:59
highvoltageRichEd: I read slashdot and debian times, that helps for me :)08:59
RichEdhighvoltage: and I presume we have debian folk at our UDS ? 08:59
highvoltageRichEd: or I keep up to date by aggregating a whole bunch of stuff... http://technews.jonathancarter.co.za08:59
Burgundaviahmm, how do you email Mark and see "Stop being a twat and give us code", without doing that08:59
highvoltageRichEd: yes09:00
BurgundaviaRichEd: that isn't debian. Samba4 is mostly Novell and FDS is Fedora Directory Server09:00
Burgundaviawhen I say upstream, I mean a lot more than debian09:00
RichEdRegarding the need for developer bandwidth ... there is some possible relief in sight, but I'll only explain on the condition that this does not start rampant speculation or heated feelings.09:01
LaserJockI know Ubuntu in general has a fair amount of development power, but I think for Feisty we will have about 1 full time developer's worth of development in Edubuntu09:01
pygiLaserJock: +1 at least :)09:03
LaserJockI'm looking at all the specs we have and I'm just not seeing how we are going to be able to make much of a dent in it09:03
LaserJockpygi: I doubt it09:03
pygiLaserJock: hm, I don't :)09:03
RichEd=> Canonical is a project partner in an EU sponsored project called Edulinux. We are contracted in for a whack of developement days, to produce a Education Server and related tools.09:03
Burgundaviaour specs will get brutally winnowed down09:03
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pygiBurgundavia: you are too pessimistic09:03
LaserJockBurgundavia: right, which will mean most of this stuff goes by the wayside for now09:04
RichEd=> Oliver and I go to the first workshop in the last week of November (in Lodz in Poland)09:04
Burgundaviapygi: I am a realist09:04
Burgundaviaby "education server", what does that mean?09:04
pygiBurgundavia: perhaps, but reality estimation are here to be broken09:04
Burgundaviaare we talking AD-style?09:04
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RichEd=> So if we can shape our requests for Feisty to overlap with what we think will be requested by the other project partners, then we will be able to access some funds for warm bodies ... note this in no way implies any new position or post in Canonical ... and will probably be some part time or time boxed approach.09:06
Burgundaviathat is cool09:06
RichEdBurgundavia: let me get the project summary for you09:06
BurgundaviaI need to be in MTV09:06
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highvoltageBurgundavia: big fan of beyonce?09:06
Burgundaviahighvoltage: knowles?09:06
highvoltageyeah. she's in MTV too atm. sorry, no time for jokes :/09:07
RichEdAnd while I do that, the one thought / comment is that the kind of management tools you were all talking about above would be high on the educators' agenda (seeing as they were also requested from our list users).09:07
Burgundaviamanagment is high on everybodies list09:07
RichEdAnd a final comment, if we can push the feature to an Ubuntu feature level, then perhaps (Ogra + Help Dev from Edubuntu) + (Ubuntu Dev) may be sufficient to get it underway ?09:09
kwakRichEd: installatino of edubuntu is finish. i testing client (vmware), it can get an address, but stops in TFTP. do i need to do something else09:09
RichEdhighvoltage: ^^^ can you help kwak09:09
BurgundaviaRichEd: sure. I would love to see what needs are education specific and what can be made more generic09:10
highvoltagekwak: try restarting inetd: sudo /etc/init.d/inetd restart09:12
highvoltagekwak: if that doesn't work, check thet tftpd is enabled in /etc/inetd.conf09:12
highvoltagekwak: vmware sometimes does some strange things too09:12
RichEdBurgundavia: that comment brings us back to the Edubuntu approach, or Ubuntu and Education approach ... if the Edulinux Project Team perceive a better fit with Ubuntu for say High Schools / Universities than Edubuntu (in its current state) then what they request as tools may need to work at the Ubuntu level 09:13
BurgundaviaRichEd: under the covers, Edubuntu IS Ubuntu09:13
kwakhighvoltage: i got a TFTP oopen timeout09:13
Burgundaviathere is no difference. Same kernel, same desktop, everyting09:14
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BurgundaviaKamping_Kaiser: RichEd is new to this game09:14
RichEdBurgundavia: new, not dof09:14
Kamping_Kaiseryes, but i was under the impression he wasnt that new :O09:14
highvoltagekwak: I think you might have to check your vmware network settings, I don't think the problem is with the edubuntu installation09:15
BurgundaviaI am been fighting with stuff at work for 5 hours, didn09:15
Burgundaviat get home until 10pm09:15
Kamping_Kaiserknow the feeling burg :|09:15
highvoltageKamping_Kaiser: he isn't that new, he worked for HP education before09:15
Burgundaviawork has been dicking around on the developmetn side as well, so feeling like I need to change something09:16
Burgundaviaposslby that might involve sharp pointy things09:16
RichEdBurgundavia: What I am saying is that if there is a need for (1) remote takeover of workstations (2) mass creation of users and home directories ... just because the request happens to originate from a Education user request, does not make it an Edubuntu feature requirement.09:16
kwakok. il try that. the tftp boot is not commented09:17
RichEdYes, Edubuntu wants this available. But surely Ubuntu does as well, and we can work *with* them and their greater resource pool to make it happen and available for all.09:17
BurgundaviaRichEd: which brings us back to landscape and the need for a client09:17
Burgundaviasee, that is interesting, because I see no divide between Kubuntu,Ubuntu, Xubuntu and Edubuntu09:17
Burgundaviaespecially Edu and U, because they share so much09:18
RichEdI see 1 Edubuntu Developer and 50 Ubuntu developers and would love to have them building generic stuff underneath us, so that we can concentrate on the Education specific things, like desktop and application choices, and a few school specific tools.09:19
Burgundaviaanyway, I need to be at work in 7 hours09:21
Burgundaviathus I need to sleep09:21
Burgundavianight all09:21
highvoltageBurgundavia: sleep tight09:21
RichEdBurgundavia: check msg window for Edulinux summary09:21
RichEdand then sleep tight :)09:21
Burgundaviagot it09:21
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kwaki still want to know if edubuntu has problems with broadcom. :)09:34
kwakim so anxious to replace my k12ltsp installation, giving me headache.09:35
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Kamping_Kaiserif the kernel supports it, it will work09:36
kwako well, i think it's just a fedora problem.09:37
kwakso edubuntu works out of the box right?09:38
Kamping_Kaiserdepends what you need to work ;)09:38
kwakwhat do you mean. we're just using LTSP in a school computer lab.09:38
kwakinstalled crossover to run MS Office.09:39
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kwakwhat's the minimum requirements, my server is dual CPU and 4GB RAM, supporting 25 clients09:39
Kamping_Kaiserltsp should 'just work', yes09:40
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Kamping_Kaiseri run 15 clients off a 3 gig p4, 2 gig of ram.09:40
Kamping_Kaiserand doesnt break a sweat09:40
willvdlhey all09:40
Kamping_Kaiserhi willvdl :)09:41
willvdlanyone ever used any of the HP thin-clients?09:41
willvdlcompaq evo's to be more precise09:44
RichEdhi will ... the terminal boxes, the size of a phone book ?09:45
Kamping_Kaisercompaq evos? using some now.09:46
Kamping_Kaiserunless you mean hardware thin clients - these are netbooted desktops09:46
willvdle.g. t512509:47
willvdlthey have a 2.4 kernel in, supprtx-terminal, ica, rdp09:47
willvdlsupport x-terminal09:47
willvdlKamping_Kaiser, are you etherbooting them off an edubuntu server?09:48
Kamping_Kaiserwillvdl, i'm pxe booting desktop pcs09:48
willvdlsorry, meant hardware TC's09:49
RichEdwillvdl: there was a norwegian outfit using these for a managed education solution ... they also sorted out how to get into the firmware, and load Linux and OpenOffice so that the device was usable even if the network was not available09:49
willvdlaha. I'm trying to figure out if it is better to run them as netbooting thin-clients (aka LTSP) or as embedded devices running remote x-terminals09:50
Kamping_Kaisermuch of a muchness09:55
Kamping_Kaiserltsp=secure connections though09:55
willvdlwell, one could use ssh tunneling?09:56
Kamping_Kaiseryes, if you can be bothered09:56
willvdland if it's all in one room then security is not really a problem...kind of09:57
willvdlactually looking for path of least resistance09:57
Kamping_Kaiserif they netboot, tahts what i would be using09:58
willvdlif one *had* a bunch of terminals with various terminal emulators built into the flash, might it not be better to use that as opposed to configuring for netboot?09:58
willvdlah, thanks09:58
willvdlI wonder if it's possible to use the flash RAM as local storage...09:59
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highvoltagewillvdl: an edubuntu thin client will see it as a local hard disk10:07
willvdlhighvoltage, what yatc's have you used in "production"?10:13
willvdlyet another thin-client (your term :) )10:15
highvoltagemostly a variety of via thin clients. they are producing some cool stuff at the moment.10:17
highvoltagewe got a bunch of hp's too that we wanted to use as diskless fat clients, but they were just a little underpowered.10:17
willvdlhmmm, I'm presuming I'm going to use HP stuff since, hey, it's HP doing it :)10:18
willvdlyeah, the via stuff did look cool. what was the cost?10:18
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highvoltagevia stuff is quite cheap, I don't have exact prices (rand/doller changing, etc)10:24
highvoltagebut a thin client with a C3 1ghz processor, 512MB RAM, nice 3d display card, is about R60010:24
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highvoltagethey run great as full machines too10:25
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willvdleish, that's good10:26
willvdlhow's their power management?10:26
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RichEdnixternal: you got a tsunami in your areal ?10:28
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willvdlhe got the quit message right though :P10:31
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=== Kamping_Kaiser sugets a +b on nixternal untill he works himself out
willvdlanyone familiar with symbiont?10:32
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pygihighvoltage: +b on nix for a bit? :)10:34
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willvdlbattery low. gotto run and find a plug10:37
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highvoltagepygi: ouch, I see10:40
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highvoltageeven his quit messages is causing flood10:40
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juliuxhighvoltage, normal you have to ban him;)10:41
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=== Topic for #edubuntu: Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | edgy (6.10) is released ! grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/ | Upgraders see: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
=== Topic (#edubuntu): set by ogra at Tue Oct 31 11:41:10 2006
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hunmaatso how can I make a terminal user?03:01
RichEdhunmaat: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation03:08
hunmaatRichEd: i can't find it there...03:09
RichEdtry: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook03:09
highvoltagehunmaat: use the Users and Groups tool under System -> Administration03:09
hunmaati did so03:09
highvoltagehunmaat: does ldm just kick you out again?03:10
hunmaatit's interesting03:10
hunmaatit shows a cursor03:10
highvoltagehunmaat: are you using dapper? did you change the server's ip address at some stage? you might need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys03:10
hunmaatand the login screen again03:10
hunmaathighvoltage: thank you, works fine03:11
hunmaatmy problem was that it doesn't do anything at all...03:12
hunmaat* didn't :)03:12
highvoltageit's an LDM bug that will be fixed in the next ubuntu release.03:12
highvoltageit doesn't tell you what went wrong, it just kicks you back to the login screen.03:15
highvoltagewhich isn't very user friendly :/03:15
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=== Topic for #edubuntu: Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | edgy (6.10) is released ! grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/ | Upgraders see: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
=== Topic (#edubuntu): set by ogra at Tue Oct 31 11:41:10 2006
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RichEdogra: i found some good news for you on visa ... let me get the link06:04
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pips1ogra: ping06:25
LaserJockhaha, I'm Jordan Amaranth now :-)06:27
cbx33Jordan Amaranth?06:31
LaserJockon RichEd's email about UDS Mt. View06:32
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pips1looks like the poor fella has been communicating with too many people in too many channels06:35
pips1LaserJock: did you see ogra join? 06:36
LaserJockcbx33: did you see Keybuk's blog post?06:36
cbx33no.....hang on06:36
cbx33just gonna read06:37
LaserJockpips1: he's here06:37
ograpips1, sorry busy in -meeting06:37
pips1how long will the meeting take ~ ?06:37
cbx33LaserJock, hahaha06:38
LaserJockhave people heard of the CipUX tool from Debian-edu before?06:42
pips1well, I have only heard about it on our ml and in the channel, if I remember correctly06:43
pips1some mail cross-posted from the debian-edu ml06:43
ograLaserJock, its a rewrite of the webmin plugin they had before 06:43
ograwith webmin vanishing from debian and ubuntu tehy separeated it06:43
=== cbx33 is half way through a new applet for multi converting ;)
cbx33just drag a selection of files and it'll convrt them to what eer you want ;)06:44
pips1ogra: you met and talked to the developer of CipUX, didn't you?06:44
cbx33anyone with any ideas just mail me ;)06:44
ograpips1, no06:44
ograand i'm not really thrilled by it06:44
cbx33is the schedule available for UDS yet?06:44
ogracbx33, the schedule will be made every evening for the next day, its dynamically06:44
cbx33oh right06:45
pips1ogra: since there is a decent group of education people at UDS (RichEd listed 9 people), don't you think we should add some specs to make it easier for this group to actually find time slots in the schedule?06:45
ografind time slots ?06:46
pips1basically, you said that we need specs otherwise stuff wont be discussed and wont happen06:46
ograLP *assigns* time slots and the schedule with its assignments will be made pucblic06:47
cbx33was hoping to find out when the SCP spec was going to be discussed06:47
LaserJockcbx33: you'll have to watch the schedule06:47
ograpips1, rigtht but specs that arent in yet are very unlikely to get in now ... we just had the final meeting about them06:47
pips1ogra: oohhh06:48
pips1well, here is a list that RichEd put onto the wiki page today:06:48
ograthats why i tell you guys to register them since two weeks ...06:48
pips11. Edubuntu Configurations06:48
pips1   * Existing : Current Edubuntu "bundle / package" is for Primary Schools06:48
pips1   * Required : Need Edubuntu "bundle / packge" for Seconday Schools06:48
pips1   * Required : Need Edubuntu "bundle / packge" for University06:48
pips12. Edubuntu-Product-and-Add-On06:48
pips1   * Does it make sense to see Edubuntu as: Ubuntu base + Edubuntu Add-On06:48
pips1   * Would this approach assist for the 3 bundle / packages:06:48
pips1     * Edubuntu Primary06:48
pips1     * Edubuntu Secondary06:48
pips1     * Edubuntu University06:48
pips1     * Would this approach assist with the single CD size constraints06:48
pips13. Ubuntu-Education-Network-Integration06:48
pips1     * {bring requested features in here}06:48
pips14. Edubuntu-Desktop-Applications06:48
pips1   * {bring requested applications in here}06:48
pips15. Edubuntu-Web-Applications06:49
pips1   * {bring requested applications in here}06:49
pips16. Ubuntu-Education-Content06:49
pips1   * {expand this}06:49
LaserJockpips1: did you really need to paste that?06:49
ograthat doesnt help if it doesnt match reality ...06:49
pips1LaserJock: sorry06:49
pips1ogra: please explain06:49
ograwe dont have any spec about "Edubuntu Configurations"06:49
LaserJockpips1: no, problem, but I've been staring at that page all day06:49
pips1ogra: ^^^is a list of missing specs06:50
ograpips1, well 06:50
LaserJockpips1: dude, we can make all the lists we want, but if we can't deliver those and they aren't speced06:50
=== cbx33 is glad he made the deadline this time
ograwhat shall i say06:50
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ograpips1, 1 and 2 totally depend on te result of the edubuntu-on-two-cds spec06:51
pips1well, I guess that you guys are very pragmatic about it all... but don't you think it is worth getting input on topics? even if it will end up in feisty+1 ?06:51
ograi have no idea what 3 shall be06:51
LaserJockpips1: we already have too many specs06:51
ogra4 is something for an edubuntu conf and not appropriate for MV06:52
pygipips1: and where is libburn? :P06:52
ograwhats 5 ? 06:52
ogra6 is something for universe ...06:52
cbx33ogra, we don't need an MV....we have you ;)06:52
pips1ogra: that input you just gave was already helpful :)06:52
nothlitcbx33, would your applet use mencoder06:53
cbx33nothlit, yes06:53
cbx33and openoffice06:53
ograthat makes it doomed to be in multiverse 06:53
ogracant you use gstreamer ? 06:53
cbx33I can try06:53
pips1ok so we can handle/discuss (1) and (2) in the edubunt-on-two-cds topic, ok06:53
cbx33think it'll be a good applet to make?06:53
=== pygi can help with gst a bit since he is developing Diva with it, altought in C & C#
LaserJockpips1: the problem is we are focusing on UDS Mt. View right now. After that's done we can discuss other things06:53
ograpips1, no06:53
cbx33I'm already a good proportion of the way through doing the stuff I didnt know how to do06:54
cbx33like dragging and dropping files onto and applet06:54
cbx33and writing an applet06:54
ograpips1, only if we have a finished spec for edubunt-on-two-cds06:54
ograpips1, before we assign space we need to *have* space06:54
LaserJockogra: we can start by making meta-packages for Universe I think06:54
ograLaserJock, right06:54
LaserJockwhile the CD space is getting worked out06:55
ograbut thats not specced or assigned to anybody yet06:55
ograso i suspect it has to wait for the edu conf 06:55
LaserJockwell, I was going to start working on it during Feisty06:55
ograwhich will very likely be during the feisty schedule06:55
LaserJockbut I'm not sure how much time I'll have06:55
ogras we will know by then if we have space and how much that is06:56
pips1ogra: isn't the (2) spec rather about a fundamental change? or not?06:56
ograpips1, 2 is edubuntu-install-profiles06:57
ograwildly mixed up with edubunt-on-two-cds06:57
=== pips1 goes to check out that spec
nothlitogra, gstreamer is an encoder as well?06:57
ogranothlit, it can be what you want it ... its only a fronend for a plugin system06:58
ograits a encoder, recoder, decoder06:58
nothlitogra, ahh06:58
pips1edubuntu-install-profiles wasn't on my radar..06:58
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ograpips1, my fault i missed to assign it to uds-mtv did that during the meeting06:59
ogranow it should be on all lists06:59
=== pips1 subscribes to edubuntu-install-profiles
=== pips1 adds it to the wiki page
LaserJockdarn it07:04
LaserJockthis is going to be rough07:04
LaserJockI'm only going to be there for Sunday and Monday07:04
LaserJockedubuntu-menus-completion is Medium07:05
LaserJockso I'm guessing it's up for later in the week :(07:05
LaserJockshould we have somebody else draft it?07:05
pips1ok, so now I got (1) --> discuss at next Edubuntu Summit and (2) --> topic to me discussed as part of the 'edubuntu-on-two-cds' and 'edubuntu-install-profiles' specs07:06
LaserJockI don't get where "Feature Requests : Existing" came from?07:07
pips1ogra: (3) is a meta-topic of sorts, to address the overlap of the Ubuntu-Directory specs and the edubuntu-network-auth-* specs. You said yesterday we don't need an extra spec for that, since you will discuss this informally when everyone is in the same room... so let's do it that way.07:08
nothlitcbx33, do you plan for your applet to be included with gnome? are the only applets developed for gnome included already? or are there others07:09
=== pips1 thinks the whole network-auth ldap story is a bit of a hot potatoe
cbx33nothlit, not sure07:10
cbx33I'm planning for it to be included with ubuntu07:10
cbx33not not sure about gnome07:10
pips1LaserJock: I agree, I don't understand what RichEd meant by that  "Feature Requests : Existing" block...07:11
LaserJockpips1: edubuntu-on-two-cds isn't on list of specs at the top07:11
pips1you are right, let me add it07:12
LaserJockalso ltsp-persistent-home and edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound07:13
ograpips1, sigh ...07:13
nothlitcbx33, how configurable will your applet be? bitrate changing (for audio) res changing ?07:13
ograpips1, the edubuntu-network-auth-* specs are about a default setup ubuntu will never provide07:13
ograits like ltsp in ubuntu and tsp in edubuntu ...07:14
cbx33nothlit, yup via preferences07:14
cbx33obviously I can't do everything07:14
cbx33I mean's supposed to be a quick and easy applet07:14
ograpips1, they are totally different things .... people seem not to get that ...07:14
cbx33but I'm hoping that a lot of it will be configurable07:14
pips1ogra: indeed07:14
pips1ogra: please try to explain a bit ? :-D07:15
ograpips1, one is about features the other about configuration of these features07:16
ogra(and shipping that configuration as default)07:16
pips1maybe it's useful if you explain it since some folks seem confused about the topic07:16
pips1you just did explain07:16
LaserJockpips1: so I figure with that list at the top we have 60 hrs worth of BOFs07:16
nothlithow good is the kiosking in edubuntu07:17
LaserJocknot counting drafting and approval07:17
ogranothlit, as good that the one of the desktop you use ...07:17
ogragnome has sabayon for kiosk, KDE has kiosktool 07:17
ograltsp will get a webkiosk mode as well soon but thats indeed different from what you mean 07:18
ogra(i guess)07:18
pips1ogra: what you say re edubuntu shipping configs. sounds absolutely reasonable :)07:18
ograpips1, edubuntu auth server is also about using te existing preferred solution other edu distros use ...07:19
ograand thats a point where we might probably clash with the network auth stuff from ubuntu07:19
ograbut thats something we can only find out in the BOfs07:19
ograanyway, i need some breakfast now ...07:20
nothlitogra, yeah i was just wondering if it had any special kiosking things because i didn't know about sabayon and the kiosk tool for kde seems pretty developed07:20
ograand the other ltsp guys will arrive soon ...07:20
ogranothlit, yes, its fine for KDE ...07:20
nothlitogra, gnomes website just talks about editing files manually and gconf07:20
ograwe integrate student-control-panel for ltsp and use pessulus for lockdown operations ... sabayon is rather for system wide profiles ...07:21
pips1however, the directory server + auth topic seems like a hot potatoe that nobody seems to want to tackle.. for various reasons?07:21
ograso we actually have three tools 07:21
ograpips1, yes, and thats why i insist to use the existing smbldap solution07:22
ograi wont sign off a feisty release without a network auth server 07:22
LaserJockpips1: I rather see it as something all of a sudden everybody wants to tacke07:23
pips1well, I guess what doesn't help is that ldap can be used for so many things, not only as a directory server, but network management, etc07:23
pips1network resource allocatoin07:24
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ograLaserJock, i wuld have attacked it in breezy if not tfheen (breezy) and ajmitch (edgy) had said they will do it ... 07:24
ogratfheen (breezy/dapper)07:25
ogranow i got tired of waiting and searched for the best solution ... which appears to be smbldap in the educational sector 07:25
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pips1I noticed the discussion with Burgwork about it earlier07:26
ajmitchyay, so we'll have two completely different solutions to the problem07:26
ograajmitch, no07:27
LaserJockpips1: student-control-panel-upgrade isn't on the wiki page either07:28
ogra*if anything comes out* of the server side discussion and i get guarantees we'll se a solution in time for feisty its all fine07:28
ograbut i dont belive in it yet07:28
ograajmitch, i'm only proposing smbldap because all attempts were unreliable until now and smbladp is a widely used working solution07:29
pips1LaserJock: I was just busy scrolling up to find the bit where you mentioned the missing specs, so I can update the wiki page...07:29
ograajmitch, i wont accept a *probably ready*07:30
pips1erm LaserJock could you possibly update the wiki page with the spec you found missing ?07:30
LaserJockpips1: np ;-)07:31
ogramark will shut down edubuntu if we dont have a certain amount of market share in the edu sector .... this feature is to essential to not have it *now*07:31
ogras/certain amount/certain amount within one year/07:31
ograwe have a deadline so i cant accept any "probably" 07:31
ajmitchogra: it's probably quite wise to go with smbldap for feisty at least07:31
ajmitchsince I really don't think there'll even be a good 'probably ready' server solution for feisty in ubuntu07:32
ograthast why i push for it and invited both upstream devs ;)07:32
ajmitchmost of the focus so far in specs has been client-side, what do you plan to use for that?07:32
ograits very likely that the client side will be compatible with what ubuntu will build in feisty so we can probably drop the edubuntu spec for that, but we'll see that during the conf 07:33
ajmitchso most likely the stuff I've done for configuration07:33
ograapart from that, smbldap is a all in one solution, it also has the client parts if we want them07:33
ograits a very good fallback ;)07:34
ograanyway, got to go now ... later ....07:34
ajmitchsee you in MV :)07:34
ograwhen will you arrive ? 07:34
pips1It was good to get this discussion advanced a bit, me thinks :)07:34
ajmitchsaturday evening07:35
ogragreat :)07:35
ajmitchwell, saturday lunchtime, I think07:35
ajmitchstaying with whiprush07:35
ajmitchso not at the same hotel07:35
ograwell, hotel desnt really matter if we are locked up at google all day anyway :)07:36
pips1ogra: just to answer your question from above quick07:36
ajmitchassuming we even get network-authentication spec scheduled07:37
pips1(5) is about discussing web apps to include in edubuntu (think moodle et al), but I think this will be more appropriate for the Edubuntu summit...07:37
ajmitchstill a bunch of specs with no priority for scheduling07:37
ograpips1, no07:38
=== pips1 has been wondering about that
pips1ogra: ?07:38
ograthat should have been specced properly its a packaging and development effort07:38
ogramoodle isnt includable as is07:38
ograit needs tons of changes before which means we divert from debian07:39
ograand which means we need to spec the development for ti07:39
Burgworkogra: what was the website again?07:39
ograask RichEd if he can make up a spec and beg at mdz for accepting it even though we're past that already07:40
pips1i guess we will discuss it at edubuntu summit and then need to spec it for the feisty+1 timeframe07:40
ograBurgwork, ?07:40
Burgworkogra: the smbldap one07:40
ograBurgwork, its linked on the spec07:40
pips1ogra: RichEd is doing final preparations for his departure tomorrow noon time.. The only possibility would be for me to submit the spec draft and then have RichEd make a push for it, but you know what? I think it's way too late..07:42
ograpips1, well, it would be good to have that spec ...07:43
pips1users ask for moodle since the beginning... 07:43
pips1... and it's is definitely on its hype peak here in ch07:43
ograright, so its worth pushing it07:45
pips1personally, I'm not fond of it for various reasons, but I guess it is a relatively good all-in-one solution that supports a teachers "class-centric" world view ..07:45
ograits the commonly used solution in education so the same arguments as for smbldap apply07:46
pips1i.e. the main structuring element in moodle are "courses"07:46
pips1ogra: so you really think this spec would get traction so late in the game? and do you think anybody would sign up?07:48
highvoltagepips1: you have a link?07:48
pips1for what?07:49
highvoltagethe spec07:49
pips1it doesn't exist!07:49
highvoltageah, ok.07:49
ograpips1, well, if you want to see moodle integration its good to have a spec ... even if mdz denies it for inclusion *now* we'll have it there for feisty+107:50
ograanyway ....07:50
highvoltagel8rs ogra07:50
pips1ok, cu07:50
pips1I was considering plopping up a sec for a minute or two, but I don't feel I can get a reasonable spec on such short notice.07:52
highvoltagepips1: perhaps it's a good idea to at least get something up07:53
pips1peer pressure ;-)07:53
highvoltagesome of the specs that currently exist are *very* basic and bare07:53
pips1yeah I know07:53
LaserJockman I hate wiki tables07:54
highvoltageLaserJock: me too!07:54
pips1that's probably also a reason why everybody says that there are way too many specs..07:54
highvoltageespecially on the *huge* pages07:54
LaserJockok, I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UdsMtvEdubuntu07:55
highvoltageI don't understand https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/fully-automatic-swap-server07:58
highvoltagewith all my last tests swap over NBD worked right out of the box?07:59
pips1glad you are saying that, it got me confused here too :-)08:00
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pips1I got to relocate08:02
ograhighvoltage, what we have in edgy is a workaround, not the solution described in the f-a-s spec08:23
highvoltagejust saw the comment ;)08:25
highvoltageI'll have to look at the code... I must admit I never looked deeper into it, since it 'just worked'.08:26
highvoltagealthough, now I'm more interested in it08:26
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ograit appears to me that it would meake sense to improve the script, even its not the proper solution it will make it easier to integrate encryption for example 08:32
ograthats why we need to discuss again08:32
ograedgy doesnt offer swap size for example ... it only uses a fixed size 32MB swapfile08:33
=== pygi plays with beryl
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ograpygi, wrong channel ;) edubuntu wont see composite stuff ....08:36
highvoltageogra: aah, when you mentioned the encryption it all came back to me08:36
pygiogra: I know ^_^08:36
pygiogra: I'm just saying :P08:36
highvoltage32MB is ok for thin clients, but when the local apps and fat clients becomes available they will need more. of course, we've already discussed this :)08:37
highvoltagepygi: where do you need more than 32MB network swap atm?08:37
highvoltagepygi: if your setup is so manual that you need more, then you can just as well manually adjust your swap ^_^08:38
ograBurgwork, looking at lat i must admit that i find edsadmin a lot cleaner UI wise ....08:38
pygihighvoltage: you sure you talking to me? :P08:38
highvoltagepygi: ah, sorry, getting tired here. thought you were talking about swap when you were talking about Beryl :)08:39
ograhighvoltage, thats the point, you cant adjust it at all atm08:39
nothlitis this channel mostly an edubuntu-dev channel?08:39
Burgworknothlit: a bit of everything08:40
ogranothlit, as well as edubuntu support and general edubuntu talk08:40
highvoltagenothlit: it's mostly *everything* edubuntu :)08:40
nothlitahhh kk08:40
ogra(and a little bit of ltsp)08:40
highvoltagenothlit: although, non-edubuntu specific support questions are refered to #ubuntu, normally08:40
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Burgworkogra: lat alsl has some stability issues08:47
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=== pips1 has been thinking about the moodle spec on his bus ride
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cbx33hey guys....starting a linux comic strip...in my spare time....http://www.progbox.co.uk/comic/ - worth the effort of should I not give up the day job ;)09:10
highvoltagewhatch our eler!09:12
LaserJockcbx33: you have a day job?09:13
cbx33brb...getting a dvd09:13
highvoltagecbx33: i have some trouble reading your handwriting at places09:13
cbx33I'll probably re do them09:15
cbx33 if it's worth it 09:16
cbx33what ya think?09:16
pygicbx33: you played with beryl? :)09:17
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pips1ogra: I'm drafting the moodle spec09:26
ograpips1, great09:27
ograassign it to RichEd ;) so he has a spec as well (indeed he wont implement it but lead the discussions ;) )09:28
cbx33pygi, havei  played with beryl09:40
cbx33I have a video on google about it ;)09:43
pygiI'm trying to install ubuntu on my laptop right now09:43
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pips1ogra: you have mail09:51
cbx33highvoltage, http://progbox.co.uk/comic/comic1-edit2.jpg09:52
ograpips1, looks fine09:53
ograsubmit it09:53
ograoh, and subscribe me as essential subscriber to it 09:55
ograsince i'll likely be required for the tech side09:55
pygicbx33: can you check for me do we have network-manager on cd on ship?09:55
=== pips1 is trying to find the submit-a-spec page in launchpad
pips1ah, finally I found it09:57
pips1ogra: do I leave the Approver field blank?09:59
pips1oh, I need to create a seperate wiki page before submitting the spec.. ?10:01
pips1ok, it makes sense... after all, you are supposed to start drafting the spec before submitting it on LP...10:02
LaserJockpips1: well, you can give it a name, you don't have to make the wiki page immediately10:03
=== pips1 wonders what RichEd will say about this egg I just layed
LaserJockpips1: what's the url?10:08
pips1ogra: do I need to add / change anything ?10:08
pips1what about: 10:09
pips1* Change status10:09
pips1* Change priority10:09
pips1* Edit whiteboard10:09
pips1* Propose as goal10:09
pips1* Target milestone10:09
pips1* Request feedback10:09
pips1* Subscribe yourself10:09
LaserJocklooks good to me10:09
ogralooks fine10:09
pips1now I need to email RichEd about it10:10
ograhe's asignee10:11
ograso he should have gotten a mail already10:11
pips1ah, ic10:11
pips1that's nice and easy10:11
ograif you make a wikipage for it, please note that the debian packaging isnt feasable for us and needs ajor changes10:12
pips1how come the spec doesn't show up on https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+specs ?10:12
ograthe way it is it wot get accepted by the scurity team10:12
ograbecause its not approved10:13
ograit needs mdz or sabdfl approval10:13
pips1it's in mdz queue or something, ah, ok10:13
pips1I need to talk to RichEd tomorrow about it..10:14
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Char_Aznableanyone here?11:47
ogra29 ppl according to my xchat11:48
Char_Aznableeh i got a question11:48
Char_Aznableis there anyway i could know my ubuntu version?11:48
Char_Aznablelike desktop or server 11:48
ogralsb_release -a11:49
ograbut that question is better suited for #ubuntu11:49
Char_Aznablehum ok thanks11:50
ajmitchogra: you're in SF now? how is it?11:50
ograi'd say cool ... but its rather warm :)11:50
ograand a bit rainy11:50
cbx33it's freezing cold here11:51
ajmitchprobably much the same as dunedin this week, which is good :)11:51
ograhere its something around 16-18C11:51
ajmitchyeah, 16C here today11:51
ajmitchI'm wrong, 19 at the moment  :)11:51
ograhttp://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/flash_stream.html <--- seen that ? 11:51
ograMS will sell SLES 11:52
ajmitchquite a surprise11:52
ajmitchI wonder how much is talk :)11:52
ograchanging the world ...11:52
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cbx33*bah* sound is too screwed up for me11:54
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crimsunwhat "sound" in particular?12:05
ogra_crimsun, flash12:05
ogra_its an encoding issue i think12:05
crimsunI get nothing with Flash 9 beta on Edgy12:06
cbx33what no sound at all?12:07
ogra_i get the livestream on 712:07
crimsunno sound, no video12:07
ogra_sound is delayed though12:08
cbx33I'm on the...firefox auto installed version12:08
ogra_i'm with the ubuntu package  12:08
crimsunprobably a firewall issue here12:08
Burgworkfaq, rather12:12
cbx33how can I easily grab an entire website12:14
cbx33for example there is no download for these docs http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-base-libs/html/12:14

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