[12:33] <keescook> jdub: happen to know if beagle restores access times when it crawls?
[12:33] <bhale> restores?
[12:33] <jdub> keescook: i don't
[12:33] <bhale> why bother
[12:34] <bhale> i dont know for sure but i highly doubt it
[12:34] <keescook> bhale: because I think it just wrecked all my mbox files' atimes.  :)
[12:34] <bhale> ok :)
[12:34] <bhale> ahaha
[12:35] <johanbr> So *that's* what "cup of joe" means.
[12:35] <bhale> jdub: on tap like a Tower?
[12:35] <keescook> something did, and beagle is only recent change I can remember...
[12:35] <jdub> on tap like ubuntu
[12:35] <jdub> http://www.ucc.asn.au/services/ubuntu.ucc
[12:35] <bhale> this includes music
[12:36] <bhale> about the slickest hack ever
[01:28] <jdub> keescook: yes, it appears likely that beagle doesn't specifically handle that problem with mboxes
[01:29] <keescook> jdub: okay, good to know.  (... "dpkg -P beagle")
[01:42] <TheMuso> c
[05:15] <tonyyarusso> BenC: Hey, do you have any idea what changes between Breezy and Dapper/Edgy may have caused bug #42718?
[05:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42718 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Sound capture on Thinkpad T20, T21, T22 not working" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42718
[05:16] <infinity> tonyyarusso: You might want to ask crimsun, he's our sound guru.
[05:16] <BenC> tonyyarusso: nothing in particular, except the upgrade of alsa :)
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> BenC: Some of the comments on it say it happens with alsa and oss, which makes it even more odd.
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> Is crimsun around atm?
[05:22] <tonyyarusso> Is there anything I can do to help get this bug fixed quickly other than pinging crimsun if I don't have the skills to actually work on it myself?
[07:01] <fabbione> morning
[07:04] <Amaranth> morning
[08:16] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[08:16] <pitti> Good mornign everyone!
[08:32] <Mez> mdz: anything else you need regarding that katapult SRU ?
[08:33] <Mez> infinity, did you get my emails ?
[09:06] <dholbach> good morning
[09:07] <_ion> Good night.
[09:08] <dholbach> night _ion :-)
[09:38] <pygi> pitti: you saw the -tao thingy I was talking about to siretar*t
[09:38] <pygi>  ?
[09:52] <grndslm> you guys take suggestions, right?
[09:54] <grndslm> all the devs are asleep!?!?
[09:54] <pygi> grndslm: no :P
[09:55] <Hobbsee> grndslm: no.  your questoin is very open-ended though
[09:55] <grndslm> heh....would it be possible to just right click on one gnome-panel and un/lock all the applets, etc...instead of having to right-click each individual item??
[09:55] <Hobbsee> as in, no they're not asleep
[09:56] <Hobbsee> i'd imagine that's a gnome setting?  dholbach?
[09:57] <infinity> grndslm: I'd imagine you'd have more success filing a wishlist bug.
[09:57] <dholbach> grndslm: yes, what infinity said - although I think there was a bug along those lines already.
[09:57] <infinity> dholbach: Pfft, what do you know about GNOME? :)
[09:57] <dholbach> right
[09:58] <infinity> Especially GNOME bugs in Ubuntu.  Seriously.  Delusions of grandeur.
[09:58] <infinity> Also, 3 more days!  Which one of us owes the other more drinks?  Has it evened out by now?
[09:59] <ajmitch> evening infinity 
[09:59] <grndslm> it's just crazy that after as many releases as gnome has had, nobody's fixed that
[09:59] <infinity> grndslm: It's not so much "no one fixed it" as "n one implemented it"... It's not a bug, just a feature you may want.  T obe fair, it's a feature I never even thought about until 5 minutes ago.
[09:59] <infinity> s/doze/dozen/
[10:00] <dholbach> infinity: even if you drank as much as you can, you'd walk home with barrels and bottles of booze :-)
[10:00] <infinity> ajmitch: Yo.
[10:00] <infinity> dholbach: I dunno.  Every time you fix vte/gnome-terminal, you get a gold star from me.
[10:00] <ajmitch> infinity: a few of us are meeting in SFO & catching the train down, might be cheaper than the shuttle
[10:00] <grndslm> well...that's why i'd rather tell the ubuntu-devs because they seem to have better organized priorities than the debian/gnome guys
[10:00] <infinity> dholbach: Then again, perhaps you're breaking it intentionally so you can later fix it and get gold stars.  Hrm.
[10:01] <infinity> ajmitch: Are we on the same flight?
[10:01] <ajmitch> yeah, NZ8 to SFO
[10:01] <dholbach> infinity: right, I specifically patched out some features
[10:01] <infinity> Right.
[10:01] <infinity> ajmitch: Well, I live carry-on only so I can avoid baggage carousels.  If you do the same, let's hook up at the gate.  If not, I'll be long gone before you see the light of day. :)
[10:01] <infinity> dholbach: I knew it.
[10:02] <ajmitch> I'll probably be held up waiting for bags, and customs :)
[10:02] <jdub> grndslm: that means in some cases that you have to compete with those priorities instead of sorting things out upstream :)
[10:02] <Hobbsee> jdub: fix it, kthanksbye!
[10:02] <Hobbsee> jdub: tell pia i said hi, and that i really will get back to her soon :P
[10:03] <jdub> Hobbsee: fo'sho!
[10:03] <jdub> Hobbsee: only, we don't pass messages.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:03] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:03] <jdub> ;-)
[10:05] <dholbach> chip looks so cool: http://flickr.com/photos/chipx86/285519943/ :-)
[10:07] <grndslm> jdub, so you're tellin' me i should take it to the gnome devs then, eh?
[10:08] <infinity> dholbach: -EPARSE
[10:08] <infinity> dholbach: There are no "cool" people in free software.
[10:08] <dholbach> hehe
[10:08] <Treenaks> infinity: You're in the wrong free software then :P
[10:08] <infinity> Oh, but I guess being dressed as a LEGO minifig does come close...
[10:08] <Treenaks> or a different one, at least
[10:10] <grndslm> mark shuttleworth is damn cool
[10:10] <infinity> grndslm: He's not online right now -- sucking up won't do you any good. :)
[10:11] <infinity> So, who wants feisty to open today?
[10:11] <infinity> Let's see a show of hands.
[10:11] <pitti> ME!!!
[10:11] <ajmitch> sure, I want breakage
[10:11] <infinity> I think we're almost there.
[10:11] <ajmitch> well I just want to get stuff uploaded :)
[10:11] <pitti> $ ls uploads/feisty/*.changes|wc -l
[10:11] <pitti> 15
[10:11] <infinity> pitti: Slacker.
[10:11] <ajmitch> heh
[10:11] <dholbach> mvo: Alter!
[10:11] <Hobbsee> infinity: ME!!!!!!!
[10:11] <ajmitch> pitti: doing better than me!
[10:12] <mvo> dholbach: ALTER
[10:12] <sivang> infinity: ME!! nad I'm willing to through another bottle of olive oil at it :)
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: I love you, too
[10:12] <infinity> pitti: How many sync requests have you submitted along with those/ :)
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: not that much, maybe 10
[10:12] <infinity> Kay, so that brings your count to 25.  You win.
[10:12] <infinity> Though some MOTU folk have been going insane with sync requests.
[10:13] <pitti> I decided to spend the rest of the week on security updates and upstream'ish work
[10:13] <infinity> Sounds fair to me.
[10:13] <pitti> but if we can upload soon, so much the better :)
[10:13] <pitti> new craaack!
[10:13] <infinity> Should be able to.
[10:13] <pygi> pitti: work on libburn ;)
[10:13] <infinity> hppa bootstrap will take  abit longer, but we're not waiting on that, obviously.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> ooh!  new crack!!!!  yay :D
[10:14] <infinity> But, once this gcc build is done, we get to do another glibc build (fun!), then rebuild a mess of libraries to hide an ABI change (*cough*), then we're open for business.
[10:14] <sivang> infinity: why "hide" ? :)
[10:14] <infinity> So... We're close.. Ish.
[10:14] <pitti> infinity: will gcc 4.1 or 4.2 be the default for feisty?
[10:14] <infinity> 4.1
[10:14] <infinity> 4.2's release schedule doesn't love us.
[10:14] <pitti> ok, so we shouldn't see many FTBFS due to compiler issues at least
[10:15] <infinity> Any new FTBFSs will be due to kernel header changes.
[10:15] <infinity> Nothing from the compiler, though.
[10:15] <infinity> And glibc 2.4->2.5 looks pretty happily backward-compat.
[10:15] <pitti> infinity: 2.5 is running here for about three days without problems
[10:15] <pitti> the first upload broke locales, but that got fixed
[10:16] <infinity> "first upload"  We've only had one. :)
[10:16] <fabbione> there will be some other breakages
[10:16] <infinity> (You've been running test packages, though, I assume)
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: my unofficial one to people
[10:16] <fabbione> yeah
[10:16] <pitti> infinity: oh, I meant fabbione's packages on people
[10:16] <sivang> infinity: what's the thing with the ABI change hideout? :)
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: did you check your mailbox with the sparc rebuild?
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: some of them are not really headers related
[10:17] <fabbione> infinity: others is something i already mailed -devel for reference
[10:17] <jdub> infinity: yay fisty
[10:17] <pitti> heh, Ubuntu 6.10 - the fistful fighter
[10:18] <pitti> 7.04 even
[10:18] <pitti> hey jdub!
[10:18] <fabbione> sivang: it's only for some math operation on ppc and sparc
[10:18] <fabbione> sivang: like long long but very very long doubles
[10:18] <infinity> I recommend most people stick with dipper, and avoid fisty.
[10:18] <sivang> fabbione: ohh, I see
[10:18] <infinity> ldbl128, even.
[10:18] <infinity> Not the sort of thing most people care about.
[10:19] <infinity> fabbione: Yeah, I've browser the mbox, it's pretty manageable.
[10:19] <fabbione> yes it is
[10:19] <infinity> sivang: There is no workaround apart from "we're rebuilding crap"
[10:19] <fabbione> all the IFA_ stuff is very easy
[10:19] <fabbione> the others.. dunno.. i didn't really look at them in details
[10:20] <sivang> infinity: okay, thanks for the info
[10:21] <grndslm> ok...last request and then I'm outta here....since ubuntu is primarily a desktop, don't you guys think that desktop users would appreciate being able to throw their mouse into the top-right corner and scroll up/down to adjust volume....i know i love it, and i'm sure most users would [grow to]  love having it there by default
[10:23] <sivang> grndslm: ubuntu is not primarily desktop, though, http://www.ubuntu.com/server .
[10:23] <grndslm> are you kidding?
[10:23] <grndslm> if you had to take a poll...you think there'd be more people using ubuntu as a server?
[10:24] <seb128> grndslm: people like to "throw their mouse into the top-right corner" and log out, lock their session, change user,e tc
[10:24] <grndslm> how many times to desktop users log out as opposed to adjust their volume, tho???
[10:24] <pygi> grndslm: more :P
[10:24] <seb128> grndslm: how many user have volume keys on their keyboard?
[10:24] <malcc> I log out once a day and change my volume only when I travel
[10:24] <infinity> I haven't used the volume applet once in the last 6 months.
[10:24] <grndslm> well, just cuz i can alt-tab to different windows, doesn't mean i can't select them with a mouse
[10:25] <grndslm> well, if you had it in the top right hand corner and listened to audio, you'd find it pretty damn useful
[10:25] <infinity> grndslm: I tihnk the point people are trying to make here is that the user will put stuff in the corner that is best for them.
[10:25] <seb128> I change the sound from the applet every now and then
[10:25] <seb128> probably not once a day
[10:25] <infinity> For me, the calendar is the thing I like to click on the most, so it lives there.
[10:25] <grndslm> infinity, but most people are st00pit, so why not just do it right the first time...isn't that the whole point of ubuntu?
[10:25] <grndslm> ok...but the calendar applet is huge
[10:25] <grndslm> the volume applet is friggin' tiny
[10:25] <seb128> doing right it not putting the volume there
[10:26] <infinity> grndslm: "right" implies that you know what's best for everyone.
[10:26] <seb128> people don't change their volume that often
[10:26] <pygi> grndslm: and you can't know that
[10:26] <infinity> grndslm: If you want the volume there, then move it. :)
[10:26] <seb128> when they do that's often with the keyboard or the app they are using
[10:26] <seb128> most of players have a volume slider
[10:26] <infinity> "For every usability expert, there are dozens of lynch mobs who use their computers the 'wrong' way."
[10:27] <sivang> infinity: lol
[10:27] <pitti> dap
[10:27] <pitti> oops, sorry, EFOCUS
[10:28] <infinity> pitti: alias dap='dchroot -c dapper' ?
[10:28] <pitti> infinity: no, 'dap' as in the vim command
[10:28] <infinity> Oh. :)
[10:28] <seb128> bah, vim user
[10:28] <pygi> seb128: what's wrong with vim? :P
[10:28] <ajmitch> hi mpt 
[10:28] <seb128> pygi: you have to learn weird command line 'dap' :p
[10:28] <grndslm> look it's a logical choice, i'd rather you move it for everybody else since you can and i can't...(a)ubuntu is primarily used on desktops, and (b)you only logout ONCE per session, whereas desktop users change their volume incessantly, and (c) you can throw the mouse at the calendar applet no matter where it is, and hit it first time....not so with the volume app
[10:28] <pitti> infinity: what you said is called 'dchdapper' for me :)
[10:28] <thom> it's not got a g at the front, so seb won't use it ;-)
[10:28] <seb128> s/line/like
[10:28] <pygi> seb128: heh :P
[10:29] <grndslm> anyway...i'm just saying think about it, not that it's right or wrong...but MAYBE it is right
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: 'd'elete 'a' 'paragraph'
[10:29] <grndslm> thanks for listening...
[10:29] <grndslm> i'm out
[10:29] <seb128> pitti: aaaahhhhh
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: ctrl+space, 10x cursor down, and ctrl+w takes much longer :)
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: (AFAIR the emacs commands)
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: /me uses click and dnd :p
[10:31] <infinity> I just lean on "d" until half the screen disappears.
[10:31] <infinity> Been using vi for well over a decade, and I swear I'm the most vi-illiterate person out there.
[10:31] <seb128> pitti: and the emacs way would be to set a mark and to delete between the mark and the cursor ;)
[10:31] <seb128> (which is what you described)
[10:32] <pitti> infinity: but using all the higher-level objects like paragraphs, brace/parens blocks, etc., that's where all the fun and efficiency comes in :)
[10:32] <thom> infinity: i'll fight you for it!
[10:34] <infinity> thom: No, really.  I win this one.
[10:35] <thom> heh
[10:35] <infinity> thom: :wq! (and variations), dd, x, i, a, (linenum)G, / ... I think I've exhausted everything I know about vi right there.
[10:36] <pitti> you guys should try stuff like !3apsort ;)
[10:36] <thom> infinity: right, you win
[10:36] <infinity> thom: I may have a few more wired to muscle memory that I don't actually *think* about, but really, that's about it.
[10:37] <infinity> And I've certainly never used !3apsort
[10:37] <infinity> (!!)
[10:37] <pitti> (pipe the next three paragraphs through the 'sort' shell command)
[10:38] <seb128> who is that guy?
[10:39] <pygi> seb128: richard :P
[10:39] <pygi> seb128: just +b him for some time
[10:39] <pitti> lol
[10:39] <pygi> pitti: ^_^
[10:40] <pitti> "Scotty, our officer can't quite materialize on our end"
[10:40] <pygi> pitti: disagreed. Temporal fluctuations :P
[03:20] <robertj> Daniel Stone should get two cookies, one for fixing something old and busted, another for making xorg.conf shorter
[03:21] <Keybuk> hmm?
[03:21] <robertj> http://www.fooishbar.org/blog/tech/x/input-hotplug-2006-11-02-15-19.html
[03:21] <Keybuk> can we have *no* xorg.conf? :)
[03:22] <robertj> Keybuk: I had a fantasy about that
[03:22] <robertj> well it wasn't that it was not there, just that it was empty
[03:22] <Keybuk> oh, cool, input hotplug
[03:22] <fabbione> Keybuk: 7.2 or 7.3 will allow that
[03:22] <Keybuk> I want keith's work on driver hotplug too
[03:22] <robertj> I better get to making cookies
[03:22] <robertj> or yall better contract that out or something
[03:22] <Whoopie>  when is the edgy-commercial repository filled with the packages in dapper-commercial? any roadmap?
[05:58] <mog> hello
[05:58] <mog> i came here to ask why the decision to use dash as apposed to bash for sh
[05:59] <mog> it seems to have broken several projects makefiles, and shell scripts
[05:59] <ogra> no
[05:59] <ogra> if these scripts dont work *they* are broken 
[05:59] <mog> ugh
[05:59] <mog> no
[05:59] <ogra> (broken == not POSIX compliant in this case)
[05:59] <mog> that is fine
[06:00] <mog> but what was the intention of purposefully breaking compatibility
[06:00] <ogra> not if they use !#/bin/sh as shebang
[06:00] <ogra> using that your scripts must be POSIX compliant 
[06:00] <mog> no they still break
[06:00] <mog> as sh used to point to bash
[06:00] <ogra> if you use bash specific code, use !#/bin/bash
[06:00] <mog> now it points to inferior dash
[06:00] <mog> and doesnt work
[06:01] <cjwatson> you'll find that your scripts will break on many other (non-Linux) systems if they break with dash
[06:01] <mog> well if im not mistaken these scripts work with sh, just not dahs
[06:01] <mog> er dash
[06:01] <cjwatson> mog: what exactly breaks?
[06:01] <cjwatson> I've run into one POSIX-compatibility bug in dash ever, and it was quite a corner case
[06:02] <cjwatson> the decision was largely made for speed, but there was a certain amount of desire to eradicate the utter pest of bashisms in allegedly /bin/sh scripts too ...
[06:17] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/launchpadassignedtome.user.js
[06:17] <Keybuk> ^ anyone coming to MTV with specs, and who uses Firefox, might want that (install the Greasemonkey addon)
[06:22] <sladen> mog: it's like speaking American English to a Britsh English speaker;  it might /look/ the same, but in certain cases it's not compliant with a copy of the Oxford English dictionary.
[06:22] <sladen> s/the same/similar/
[06:25] <dholbach> tfheen: It'll be a discussion about a REVU-like service.
[06:25] <tfheen> dholbach: who is going to actually do the code reviews?
[06:26] <ogra> dholbach, what about REVU2.0 did that ever get started ?
[06:26] <dholbach> tfheen: which will not only serve the REVU use case, but speed up general review as well
[06:26] <dholbach> tfheen: that's something we'll discuss there as well I hope
[06:26] <dholbach> ogra: it never got started
[06:26] <ogra> i think the spec already covered that usecase 
[06:26] <tfheen> dholbach: ah, ok.   So it's kinda-ish-revu2?
[06:26] <ogra> gah
[06:26] <dholbach> tfheen: Mark registered it, I'm sure he has some clever ideas about it
[06:26] <Keybuk> sladen: the OED is frequently wrong also
[06:26] <Keybuk> I prefer the Collins
[06:27] <dholbach> tfheen, ogra: I'd love to see somtehing with bzr intregration
[06:27] <ogra> ++
[06:27] <Keybuk> notably the OED thinks that "-ize" is a valid suffix for a word
[06:27] <tfheen> dholbach: it's the clever ideas which scare me. :-)
[06:27] <tfheen> s/which/that/
[06:27] <dholbach> we'll all be fine
[06:31] <pitti> Mez: Seveas already has a pastebin script (exactly as you want it) for paste.ubuntu.nl
[06:31] <KhanReaper> Hello, I have some questions about automated preseeding with Edgy and the expert recipe. So, I have followed the instructions in the Edgy appendix on disk partitioning, but the installer still brings up a prompt on partitioning the disks, asking whether I want to erase disk, use LVM, or perform custom partitioning. I've successfully automated preseeding before with Breezy and Dapper, and I've even consulted with those preseed files to see if I am
[06:32] <KhanReaper> I've looked through the sources of some of the udebs, and nothing obvious appears. Could someone give me some tips?
[06:32] <Mez> pitti, lol - yeah someone emailed me OL and told me about it .... I didnt know ;)
[06:32] <Mez> pitti - though I was thinking more an apt-gettable script so we can use it in helping users
[06:33] <pitti> downloading from somewhere will do fine, too, I guess
[06:33] <KhanReaper> If there is a pastebin area, I would be glad to  include a few excerpts from the isolinux.cfg and my presed file.
[06:33] <Mez> pitti, but then we have to tell them where to download it from, where to put it, how to call it
[06:34] <Mez> pitti: but then how hard would it be to create a package to go into universe...
[06:34] <cjwatson> KhanReaper: will talk with you after the meeting that's on right now
[06:34] <pitti> Mez: right, but packaging it would require it to never change in years
[06:34] <Mez> I'll speak to Seveas see what he thinks
[06:34] <Mez> pitti, why ?
[06:34] <pitti> Mez: if it's in a stable release
[06:34] <tfheen> pitti: -updates? :-)
[06:35] <Mez> tfheen, -backports
[06:35] <tfheen> Mez: actually, -updates if the current version wouldn't work any more.
[06:35] <Mez> pitti: I'm thinking more of a universe thing for now ;)
[06:35] <pitti> tfheen: our current SRU is painful enough to not make me want to do it :)
[06:35] <Mez> possibly to be included at some point in the future in main ... but once people get used to it
[06:36] <Mez> pitti, how often do pastebins change their code ?
[06:36] <pitti> Mez: the one for paste.ubuntu.nl recently stopped working
[06:36] <pitti> (for me at least)
[06:36] <Mez> pitti: another reason to set up a proper ubuntu pastebin ;)
[06:37] <Mez> pitti: you have to admit, it'd be useful for a dev to be able to say "yeah, run this command" and then goto a webserver and get the paste info they need
[06:37] <pitti> Mez: yes, I didn't argue that
[06:38] <pitti> if we get something packaged, that should be fine
[06:38] <Mez> pitti: actually come to think of it, if you had the pastebin on some ubuntu server - you could make it even more useful - by being able to import to bug reports from a pastebin
[06:39] <Mez> pitti: do you think it would be possible to get an "official" (in the loosest sense of the word) ubuntu pastebin ?
[06:40] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: ... what you think is freestandards.org. You know that DNS can be spoofed, right?
[06:40] <pitti> Mez: hmm, paste.ubuntu.nl got quite famous; it's Seveas' call, of course
[06:40] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: so I'd like some security-minded folks in on the discussion to make sure it's sane
[06:40] <Mez> pitti: I agree, but I (and a lot of other people) tend to use rafb.net ;) and other places...
[06:41] <Mez> different people tell people to ue different pastebins ;) it'd be nice to have one main one
[06:41] <pitti> right
[06:41] <Mez> pitti: I think it's an idea that could be discussed further
[06:42] <pitti> Mez: I agree
[06:42] <Mez> I'll reply to my post with a little summary of what we've just chatted over
[06:46] <Mez> pitti: do you know anything about this "upstream" thing ?
[06:46] <pitti> Mez: the 'upstream thing'... -v ?
[06:47] <Mez> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream
[06:48] <elmo> that is the most ridiculous name EVER
[06:48] <Mez> elmo, indeed ...
[06:49] <Mez> elmo / pitti, but it's a good concept
[06:54] <Mez> lol - and the guy we want to talk to quits
[06:59] <Mez> isnt there now an ubuntu crash-handler -> bug reporter ?
[07:00] <Treenaks> Mez: apport#
[07:00] <Treenaks> minus the #
[07:00] <Mez> thats the one 
[07:00] <Mez> apport/crashdump
[07:02] <Mez> Treenaks, can you find me an example of an apport log (or tell me where I might find it)
[07:02] <Mez> pitti, ping me when you're back please
[07:02] <Treenaks> Mez: /var/crash I guess
[07:02] <Mez> Treenaks, it's not installed on my system
[07:03] <Treenaks> ah
[07:04] <Mez> kubuntu doesnt use it apparently
[07:04] <Riddell> Mez: correct
[07:04] <Mez> Riddell, would something like apport/crashdump be somehting we could consider for kubuntu ?
[07:05] <Mez> I know we have the "KDE crash handler"
[07:05] <Mez> but tbh... thats never really done anything except tell me something segfaulted and it cant find more info
[07:06] <Riddell> Mez: install gdb and it gets the stacktrace fine for me
[07:06] <Chipzz> tfheen: still here?
[07:06] <Mez> Riddell, usually with "No debugging symbols found"
[07:14] <cjwatson> KhanReaper: here
[07:32] <_ion> chipzz: Couldn't you reconnect?
[07:39] <tfheen> Chipzz: yes
[07:44] <pitti> Mez: pong (*rubbing my belly*, hmmm)
[07:44] <AlinuxSOS> pitti, good evening ;)
[07:44] <pitti> Hi AlinuxSOS 
[07:45] <AlinuxOS> looolz why sos...my ISP is killing my net every 20 minutes... :(
[07:45] <Mez> pitti, have a read of my post to -devel first ;)
[07:46] <Mez> and let me know what you think
[07:46] <pitti> willdo
[07:48] <pitti> bug 69905 -- oh dear, the first feisty bug
[07:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69905 in gs-esp "gs segfaults on feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69905
[07:49] <pitti> *we didn't even bootstrap yet*  hrmpf
[07:49] <Mez> and elmo, you'll be happy I made a new name - gigt ;)
[07:51] <ajmitch> morning
[07:51] <Mez> :)
[07:51] <ajmitch> hey pitti, how's it going?
[07:52] <pitti> ajmitch: pretty well, thanks
[07:52] <pitti> ajmitch: will you come to USD by any chance?
[07:53] <ajmitch> yeah
[07:53] <pitti> Mez: what's that?
[07:54] <Mez> Its something you use for signing things if you havent got gpg
[07:54] <pitti> weird
[07:54] <Mez> things like cheques
[07:54] <Mez> lol
[07:55] <sladen> BACS has thankfully mostly replaced the need to do that.
[07:55] <tfheen> what's a cheque?
[07:55] <sladen> ...and charging people an extra 20.00 GBP to receiving a cheque mostly deals with the rest
[07:56] <sladen> tfheen: the generic instance of a bank note
[08:02] <Treenaks> sladen: ah! bank notes are objects of class cheque? :)
[08:03] <Mez> Bank_Note extends Cheque
[08:04] <Treenaks> I haven't seen them in use for more than 10 years here..
[08:05] <Mez> bank notes?
[08:05] <Treenaks> cheques
[08:05] <Mez> they're quite common over here in the UK
[08:05] <_ion> I've never seen one.
[08:06] <Mez> _ion, you've probably had jobs where they have a working BACS system
[08:07] <bhale> really most everything
[08:08] <LaserJock> I do too
[08:08] <bhale> takeaway?
[08:08] <LaserJock> bhale: except fast food for me
[08:08] <Mez> pizza, curry etc etc
[08:08] <bhale> LaserJock: fast food here takes debit
[08:08] <Mez> (home delivery)
[08:08] <LaserJock> bhale: how nice :-)
[08:08] <bhale> LaserJock: i happen to work on it, too
[08:08] <tepsipakki> debit card uses your bank account directly?
[08:09] <bhale> debit over ssl internet for mcdonalds etc
[08:09] <LaserJock> interesting
[08:09] <bhale> tepsipakki: yes
[08:09] <Mez> It's just a pain in the ass.... and my work etc etc
[08:09] <tepsipakki> strange terminology :)
[08:10] <tepsipakki> for me..
[08:10] <bhale> debit: The process of subtracting from the balance of an account.
[08:11] <bhale> credit would be the stranger term in a literal sense
[08:11] <tepsipakki> yeah, I have a combination of a bank card & visa
[08:12] <tepsipakki> visa is great when you travel, but dangerous otherwise :)
[08:19] <Amaranth> visa is dangerous always
[08:19] <Amaranth> not having checks is a real PITA when you need your routing number :)
[08:20] <Treenaks> Amaranth: routing number?
[08:21] <Amaranth> paypal, for instance, needs your routing number and checking account number
[08:21] <Amaranth> i don't know what it's for
[08:21] <Amaranth> but it's on the bottom of a check
[08:21] <bhale> for routing money from one bank account to another.
[08:21] <bhale> as it implies
[08:22] <Treenaks> Amaranth: In .nl, all you'll ever need is your bank accuont number... and all banks use the same number system (except for one, but everyone knows that that one is special)
[08:22] <Treenaks> First 2 numbers indicate the bank
[08:22] <sladen> welcome to IBAN.  Unified account namespace
[08:22] <Treenaks> (of the account number)
[08:23] <Treenaks> sladen: IBAN is nice, but IBANs are _huge_ compared to 9-digit numbers
[08:23] <sladen> GB has  BB-BB-BB NNNNNNNN
[08:24] <Treenaks> sladen: NL has (\d{9,10}|P\d+)
[08:25] <Treenaks> (10-digit accounts are savings accounts)
[08:42] <pitti> hm, what's wrong with the buildds? all are idle, and the new glibc needs build
[08:43] <jbailey> pitti: I think they're all still in manual mode for bootstrapping.
[08:43] <pitti> jbailey: hmm, AFAIK infinity intended to have this built...
[08:43] <jbailey> pitti: Dunno for certain.  I know he accepted it, but I don't know if he stopped things to test the new gcc is the chroots or something.
[08:44] <Mez> pitti: so your thoughts are ?
[10:13] <voraistos> hello people. i am not a dev, and not requesting support, but did anybody see any kernel related problem on edgy? I keep breaking my system watching movies (xvid + ogg in OGM) and listening to music (ogg) i cant understand i keep getting kernel panic, syslog mail, and now system hardlock on boot... I dont want to reinstall it a third time... should i use a vanilla kernel or go back to dapper ?
[10:31] <ubitux> hi
[10:32] <ubitux> oups