[05:53] (cjwatson/#ubuntu-meeting) yes, if you have time, sketching out specs in advance rarely hurts, and saves the rather limited time at the sprint
[05:53] (cjwatson/#ubuntu-meeting) or possibly gives you more opportunities to consume coffee
[05:54] (cjwatson/#ubuntu-meeting) pitti: thanks
[05:54] (cjwatson/#ubuntu-meeting) doko: next
[05:55] <doko> cjwatson: argh, please delay me to the end
[05:55] <cjwatson> ok
[05:55] <cjwatson> mvo: next
[05:55] <mvo> Done: 
[05:55] <mvo> - bug triage
[05:55] <mvo> - prepared SRU
[05:55] <mvo> - research dist-upgrade failure causes
[05:55] <mvo> - prepared specs
[05:55] <mvo> - mail catchup (still some way to go)
[05:55] <mvo> Specs:
[05:55] <mvo> High:
[05:55] <mvo> - common-customizations: parts were done for edgy, needs research whats left
[05:55] <mvo> - auto-dist-upgrade-testing: needs work for better test coverage and deployment on the servers
[05:55] <mvo> - binary-driver-education: we can use the notification-hooks for this
[05:55] <mvo> - dist-upgrader-fixes: needs more analysis what went wrong
[05:55] <mvo> - easy-codec-installation: happy to help with the installer backend or with the extraction of the information from the archive
[05:55] <mvo> - enabling-additional-components: mostly prepared in paris
[05:55] <mvo> - kubuntu-update-manager: needs qt-frontend + support in adept_updater
[05:55] <mvo> - scalable-installation-testing: interessted as far as it includes better testing of the upgrade process
[05:55] <mvo> Medium
[05:55] <mvo> - dependency-removal: infrastruture in place, just need to switched to "automatic" (and better aptitude integration)
[05:56] <mvo> - kubuntu-feisty-language-selector
[05:56] <mvo> - server-upgrade-tool: should be relatively straightforward to add a text-ui
[05:56] <mvo> Interessted in general: bullet-proof-x, beryl-by-default, default-network, services, zeroconf-networking,  dbus-restarts,  xen-by-default,  old-kernels-removal
[05:56] <mvo> Additonal goals for feisty:
[05:56] <mvo> - apt-https, apt-sha256, apt-sync, dist-upgrader-arch-any, install-on-plug, kubuntu-gdebi,update-notifier-non-admin-mode
[05:58] <mvo> cjwatson: the "hermes" package from guadalinux is probably all we need
[05:58] <cjwatson> mdz's comment was not so much that it was too hard, but that it was crack :-)
[05:58] <mvo> oh
[05:58] <mvo> :)
[05:58] <cjwatson> anyway, we can talk about it
[05:59] <tkamppeter> Hia all, sorry for being late, forgot that 16:00 UTC does not switch with daylight saving time and so our meetings are one hour earlier in northern hemisphere winter months.
[05:59] <sivang> mvo: hmm, isn't old-kernels-removal part of system clean up tool ?
[05:59] <mvo> sivang: yes
[05:59] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: actually it switched from 1500 UTC to 1600 UTC, all very confusing; we need to look at the winter time scheduling
[06:00] <cjwatson> iwj: can you redo whatever it was you did to calculate decent meeting times for this half of the year?
[06:00] <cjwatson> mvo: thanks
[06:00] <cjwatson> ogra: next
[06:00] <iwj> cjwatson: Willdo, yes.
[06:01] <ogra> Done:
[06:01] <ogra>  * Prepare for LTSP BTS2006, prepare for UDS
[06:01] <ogra>  * Downloaded all my merges from MOM
[06:01] <ogra> Todo before UDS:
[06:01] <ogra>  * LTSP BTS2006 (starting today)
[06:01] <ogra> Specs (by importance for edubuntu):
[06:01] <ogra>  * edubuntu-network-auth-client/server: about integrating a default directory server setup, its essential to have that available in feisty to be able to cope with whole school setups as all other edu distros use them ... merely about integrating smbldap which is used in nearly all other edu distros...
[06:01] <iwj> I'll send out a datagathering email but I was waiting until we were together to I can harass people in person.
[06:01] <ogra>  * edubuntu-on-two-cds: make edubuntu release on two CDs instead of one to get over the space probs we have since the beginning
[06:01] <ogra>  * edubuntu-install-profiles: have different preseeded profiles to select from during install (university/preschool/highschool etc), should be integrated with the menu profiles LaserJock started in edgy
[06:01] <ogra>  * edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound: switch ltsp to polypaudio for bi-directional sound setups (mic support) for VOIP etc
[06:01] <ogra>  * ltsp-management-gui: essential upstream requirement for ltsp now ...
[06:01] <ogra>  * student-control-panel-upgrade: further improvements and debranding of S-C-P
[06:01] <ogra>  * ltsp-fat-clients: full diskless workstation support for ltsp (needs a network auth server in place)
[06:01] <ogra>  * ltsp-persistent-home: mount your ~/ from a USB flash drive on ltsp clients
[06:01] <ogra>  * live-cd-share-live-cd: integrate ltsp on the liveCD
[06:01] <ogra>  * increase-hwdb-participation: see cjwatson ...
[06:02] <Riddell> ogra: any sign of hwdb being improved on the server side?  we don't get much information out of it
[06:02] <ogra> Riddell, i have access to the servers in the DC 
[06:02] <ogra> (since a week or so)
[06:02] <cjwatson> iwj: I thought the previous data would do
[06:02] <ogra> elmo has the data to out it there 
[06:02] <ogra> s/out/put/
[06:03] <cjwatson> it's really important to get that server move done
[06:03] <ogra> but we're still lacking an SQL backend
[06:03] <ogra> that needs to be programmed and set up for proper searching etc
[06:03] <Riddell> shouldn't there be a spec for that then?
[06:03] <cjwatson> I'm very unconvinced about edubuntu-on-two-cds; it would be quite a bit of installer and CD image hassle, and mdz didn't sound terribly convinced on the approvers call
[06:04] <ogra> i'm fine to attack one side in feisty but not both ... so either server or client ...
[06:04] <highvoltage> cjwatson: can you suggest any alternatives?
[06:04] <cjwatson> not here, let's talk about it in MtV
[06:04] <ogra> right
[06:04] <highvoltage> ok
[06:04] <pitti> what about keeping the core install on one CD and have the second one as a pure add-on apt source?
[06:04] <pitti> true, /me shuts up
[06:04] <ogra> i dont like that
[06:05] <rodarvus> :)
[06:05] <iwj> cjwatson: I think I should recollect it; the people involved have changed, and some people have differently differing timezones in the winter.
[06:05] <ogra> i'd like it to act like debian does with multi CD installs 
[06:05] <ogra> but as cjwatson said .... MTV stuff
[06:05] <cjwatson> ogra: that's something mdz and I *explicitly* don't want
[06:05] <cjwatson> in fact mdz brought up that very example
[06:05] <ogra> thats what i suspected :)
[06:06] <cjwatson> ogra: are all the edubuntu specs you care about on the mtv agenda?
[06:06] <ogra> we cant release on DVD by default so we'll need a CD solution of some kind
[06:06] <ogra> cjwatson, yep
[06:06] <cjwatson> I don't see edubuntu-install-profiles on the list
[06:06] <cjwatson> are you sure?
[06:06] <ogra> wrongly prioritized though 
[06:06] <highvoltage> ogra: didn't you mention you wanted the xfce one on there too?
[06:07] <ogra> highvoltage, not my spec
[06:07] <rodarvus> highvoltage, the xfce one is basically approved
[06:07] <rodarvus> its my spec
[06:07] <cjwatson> FWIW, the prioritisation is for discussion, not implementation
[06:07] <highvoltage> rodarvus: ok, greay!
[06:07] <ogra> cjwatson, ergh, right
[06:07] <highvoltage> *great
[06:07] <ogra> cjwatson, ok to add it now =?
[06:07] <cjwatson> i.e. the high priority ones are the ones we think most need to be scheduled rather than the things that are most important to get done
[06:07] <cjwatson> ogra: yes, but please mail mdz about it
[06:07] <cjwatson> and about any priorities you think are wrong
[06:08] <ogra> cjwatson, well, if its about discussion only i'm fine with the prios
[06:08] <ogra> i didnt understand it like that 
[06:08] <heno> cjwatson: and that will be re-adjusted after UDS?
[06:08] <cjwatson> heno: possibly, not sure
[06:08] <cjwatson> might make sense to do so
[06:09] <cjwatson> for UDS though, the scheduler looks at priorities and tries to get the highest ones scheduled first
[06:09] <heno> that's been the traditional interpretation
[06:09] <tfheen> the priorities are discussion, not implementation priorities.  mdz said so during the confcall
[06:09] <heno> makes sense
[06:09] <cjwatson> ogra: thanks
[06:09] <cjwatson> rodarvus: next
[06:09] <ogra> rodarvus, please make sure to sort everything with the support team about the xfce stuff, we usually dont give support for it
[06:09] <cjwatson> 1:10 in, good grief
[06:09] <rodarvus> * Will be directly involved
[06:09] <rodarvus> accelerated-x, simple-x-mode-selection, bullet-proof-x, beryl-by-default, fully-automatic-swap-server, edubuntu-xfce-desktop, edubuntu-on-two-cds, ltsp-community-building, edubuntu-install-profiles, xserver-failover, x-input-redirection
[06:09] <rodarvus> * Particular interested on
[06:09] <rodarvus> edubuntu-network-auth-server, edubuntu-network-auth-client, ltsp-fat-clients, student-control-panel-upgrade, ltsp-persistent-home, glx-memory-management, damage-and-composite-issues, network-authentication, hard-disk-migration-tool, ltsp-management-gui, graphic-effect-layers, edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound
[06:09] <rodarvus> * Generically interested on (if time permits)
[06:09] <rodarvus> binary-driver-education, feature-cycle, edgy-fontconfig, zeroconf-networking, xulrunner-gecko
[06:09] <rodarvus> * Blocked (but super-hyper-important)
[06:09] <rodarvus> Two new specs, which can only be added to LaunchPad after (pending) approval from sabdfl
[06:09] <rodarvus> ogra, ok (notes taken about the subject)
[06:09] <cjwatson> rodarvus: how very cryptic
[06:10] <tfheen> rodarvus: you're going to have a busy week, I see? :-)
[06:10] <rodarvus> cjwatson, yes, sorry :/
[06:10] <rodarvus> tfheen, there's stuff thats not in this list, actually
[06:10] <rodarvus> I'll be "chairing" three different groups
[06:10] <cjwatson> rodarvus: ok, I hope you can manage to have read up on everything in advance, since you won't have much time to do so at the meeting
[06:10] <rodarvus> so I'll likely just skip the specs which I'm not involved
[06:11] <rodarvus> cjwatson, I did (and am doing it, actually :) )
[06:11] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/launchpadassignedtome.user.js
[06:11] <cjwatson> rodarvus: thanks
[06:11] <cjwatson> Keybuk: next
[06:11] <Keybuk> ^ for Greasemonkey users ... add "?limit=USERNAME"
[06:11] <Keybuk> -- 
[06:11] <Keybuk> Done:
[06:11] <Keybuk>  * Got MoM up to speed on feisty, it's running now
[06:11] <Keybuk>  * New MoM stats graphs
[06:11] <Keybuk>  * Packaging new udev
[06:11] <Keybuk>  * Starting my merges
[06:11] <Keybuk> To do:
[06:11] <Keybuk>  * Sync mania when tool chain in
[06:11] <Keybuk> Specs:
[06:11] <Keybuk>  * I'm apparently the noose-man for the telepathy stuff, even though dholbach is the star who'll do most of the work
[06:11] <Keybuk>  * Going to keep an eye on the zeroconf/avahi related plans and make sure they come to fruition
[06:11] <Keybuk>  * Various upstart and boot-related specs and plans for edgy
[06:13] <cjwatson> I noticed the graphs - they're rather shiny
[06:13] <seb128> Keybuk: any plan for network-manager? ;)
[06:13] <Keybuk> seb128: continue ignoring it?
[06:13] <Keybuk> demote it to universe
[06:13] <Keybuk> BURN IT
[06:13] <seb128> I see
[06:13] <cjwatson> (bottom of merges.ubuntu.com/{main,restricted,universe,multiverse}.html
[06:13] <cjwatson> )
[06:14] <dholbach> I hope that giskard will start maintaining it.
[06:14] <cjwatson> Keybuk: /upstart/s/edgy/feisty/
[06:14] <Keybuk> oh, yes
[06:14] <mvo> Keybuk: can we do wpa with anything else than network manager?
[06:14] <Keybuk> the problem with n-m is that the people who want to maintain it, don't care about any other use case other than "Using network manager"
[06:14] <cjwatson> I hope everyone has updated whatever aliases/mini-shell-scripts they have that hardcode edgy :-)
[06:14] <Keybuk> and we can't have that as the default
[06:14] <Keybuk> mvo: wpa supplicant ?
[06:14] <pitti> seb128: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/network-roaming
[06:15] <seb128> pitti: thank you
[06:15] <rodarvus> mvo, I think you just need to setup wpa_supplicant manually
[06:15] <rodarvus> (a lot of manual work, granted)
[06:15] <cjwatson> somebody who cares should teach netcfg about that
[06:15] <Keybuk> rodarvus: not really, just a few config options added to /etc/network/interfaces
[06:15] <mvo> aha, I wasn't aware of this, thanks
[06:15] <Keybuk> cjwatson: already did
[06:15] <Keybuk> but it didn't work :(
[06:15] <Keybuk> WPA is ... hard
[06:15] <cjwatson> would need a wpasupplicant-udeb ...
[06:15] <cjwatson> anyway, later
[06:15] <cjwatson> Keybuk: thanks
[06:16] <cjwatson> seb128: next
[06:16] <seb128> Done:
[06:16] <seb128> - bunch of desktop fixes uploaded to edgy-proposed
[06:16] <seb128> - "Reduce delta with upstream" week for desktop
[06:16] <seb128> - bug triage, bug triage, bug triage, bug triage
[06:16] <seb128> - mails catching up
[06:16] <seb128> - specs for MTV summit
[06:16] <seb128> .
[06:16] <seb128> MTV:
[06:16] <seb128> assigne:
[06:16] <seb128> - tab-consistency: Mark wants everything use the old firefox 1.5 tabs style
[06:16] <seb128> - desktop-slab: integration of new GNOME menu applet, GNOME is likely to accept it for 2.18. Not sure if we should consider it for default desktop (maybe giving a choices of panel profiles to the user)
[06:16] <seb128> drafter:
[06:16] <seb128> - easy-codec-installation: applications should make easy for the user to install the package shipping the codec he needs to play the file he's trying to play
[06:16] <seb128> approver:
[06:16] <seb128> - feisty-login: gdm eyes candy
[06:16] <seb128> interest to:
[06:16] <seb128> - beryl-by-default: compiz or beryl on the desktop
[06:16] <seb128> - beagle-integration: beagle on the desktop?
[06:16] <seb128> - crash-reporting: having a crash database instead of making user attach crash files manually to launchpad
[06:16] <seb128> - tracker-integration: tracker packaging and maybe on the desktop?
[06:16] <seb128> - feisty-telepathy: new cool technology
[06:16] <seb128> - gnome-mount: new cool GNOME technology to define mounting policy, etc
[06:17] <cjwatson> kwwii has to leave
[06:17] <kwwii> bye all
[06:18] <ogra> ciao kwwii, see you here in SF ;)
[06:18] <kwwii> ogra: see you soon :-)
[06:18] <pitti> seb128: really, ffox 1.5 style? not 2.0? i. e. one global close button?
[06:18] <seb128> pitti: right
[06:18] <ogra> cool !
[06:19] <pitti> ouch, that means to change all our programs...
[06:19] <seb128> that would mean changing the world, and I think we have better to do
[06:19] <cjwatson> tab-consistency drove me out of the room last time; I hope to avoid it this time too
[06:19] <seb128> pitti: right, help me to convince Mark then :p
[06:19] <pitti> anyway -> MTV
[06:19] <dholbach> pitti: and add a hack to gtknotebook
[06:19] <cjwatson> seb128: thanks
[06:19] <cjwatson> tfheen: next
[06:19] <tfheen> not doing done/todo.
[06:19] <tfheen> feisty-release-schedule: obvious
[06:19] <tfheen> archive-training: I get to be an archive admin (so I can be an RM this time too, but without having to have Colin and Adam shove things for me)
[06:19] <tfheen> grub2: hopefully we'll get it supported but not default. Default for fawn+1
[06:19] <tfheen> code-review: a bit unsure about this one really is about.
[06:20] <tfheen> those are my assigned specs, in addition I'm approver for a bunch.
[06:21] <dholbach> tfheen: i'm happy to chat with you about code-review
[06:21] <dholbach> i subscribed myself to it
[06:21] <tfheen> dholbach: ok, can we do that in #u-d after the meeting?
[06:21] <cjwatson> tfheen: mind if we potentially piggyback some other archive admin improvement discussions onto your archive-training? I can't imagine training will take longer than 20 minutes or so, and you might as well stick your oar in on the rest
[06:22] <dholbach> tfheen: as you like it
[06:22] <tfheen> cjwatson: sure, that's fine with me.
[06:22] <Keybuk> tfheen: http://wiki,ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
[06:23] <Keybuk> s/,/./
[06:23] <cjwatson> tfheen: have fun being the only approver who'll get time to actually sit in on his approvees? :)
[06:23] <cjwatson> tfheen: thanks
[06:23] <cjwatson> BenC is still not here ...
[06:23] <cjwatson> keescook: ?
[06:23] <tfheen> cjwatson: lucky me. :-)
[06:23] <keescook> Done:
[06:23] <keescook>  * security updates: libksba, xinit, binutils, pike7.6, clamav, screen, libpam-ldap, ruby1.8, mutt, wv
[06:23] <keescook>  * security reviews: newz2000's moin form parser, libx11, qt, nvidia, apport, flashplugin-nonfree, thttpd
[06:23] <keescook>  * finished most remaining universe rebuilds for linking to openssl0.9.8
[06:23] <keescook>  * RC/final release CD and DVD testing: mostly PPC
[06:23] <keescook>  * bug fixing: 39275, 65831, 65948, 65616, 65855, 65763, 66690, 65616, 66976, 34723
[06:23] <keescook>  * SRU: vino (bug 65795)
[06:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65795 in vino "vino won't accept my password" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65795
[06:23] <keescook>  * investigating crash reports: mono, firefox
[06:24] <keescook>  * got feisty chroot built, investigated MoM, did merge work on inkscape.
[06:24] <keescook> To do:
[06:24] <keescook>  * security updates: l-r-m (nvidia)
[06:24] <keescook>  * SRU: mutt (bug 65821)
[06:24] <keescook> UDS:
[06:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65821 in mutt "edgy beta - mutt sasl authentication broken" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65821
[06:24] <keescook>  * Assignee: memory-protection: What can we do to the toolchain and kernel to get even more memory protections to foil vulnerability exploits?  I'm digging through all the pieces for this currently.
[06:24] <keescook>  * Interested in: security, crash reports, networking, multimedia. (A big list I won't paste here unless that's wanted.)
[06:25] <cjwatson> keescook: do feel free to badger other distro team members about what's going on at UDS, since it's your first time
[06:25] <keescook> Oh, I will be.  I'm going to follow pitti around.  :)
[06:26] <Keybuk> who's performing the hazing?
[06:26] <doko> pitti: don't forget the leash ;)
[06:27] <cjwatson> keescook: thanks
[06:27] <cjwatson> doko: ready?
[06:27] <doko> this week:
[06:27] <doko>  - finalize OOo and eclipse proposals for edgy-updates
[06:27] <doko>  - toolchain preparations for feisty, long double ABI change
[06:27] <doko>  - bug triage
[06:27] <doko>  - specs, pretty all of them still need work before UDS
[06:27] <doko> specs for feisty:
[06:27] <doko>  - feisty-toolchain-roadmap (just the remainings which need to be done)
[06:27] <doko>  - feistyplusone-toolchain-roadmap (BoF)
[06:27] <doko>  - feisty-python-roadmap (2.5 as default, egg support, remove code from /var, sane installation locations)
[06:27] <doko>  - conflicts-replaces-checker (discussion, maybe not for feisty; checking replaces/conflicts fields after upload)
[06:27] <doko>  - feisty-java-roadmap (gcj (and open-sourced? sun-java)
[06:27] <doko>  - feisty-openoffice.org (discussion, what to do, and what not)
[06:27] <doko>  - rosetta-ooo-rollout (discussion/test with carlos, danilos)
[06:27] <doko>  - revisiting ssp as the default (with pitti)
[06:28] <cjwatson> doko: many of those specs don't seem to be on the list
[06:28] <cjwatson> doko: can you make sure you've proposed any that need discussion, and mail mdz?
[06:28] <doko> cjwatson: yes, still in proposed, sorry
[06:28] <mvo> doko: can you subscribe me for  conflicts-replaces-checker?
[06:29] <pitti> doko: when keescook and I finished memory-protection, it'll become even scarier :-P
[06:29] <doko> cjwatson: sending mdz email after the meeting
[06:29] <doko> mvo: ok
[06:30] <cjwatson> doko: thanks, good work on the toolchain so far
[06:30] <cjwatson> ... though I suppose I should hold off on that until we all start trying to use it :-)
[06:30] <doko> hah :)
[06:30] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: do you have a handle on your specs for UDS?
[06:31] <doko> pitti: did you come up with a better way to build packages with ssp enabled?
[06:32] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: if not, let me know and we'll try to sort things out
[06:32] <pitti> doko: no, just more flags
[06:32] <keescook> and patches to gdb.  :)
[06:32] <cjwatson> ok, have i missed anyone?
[06:32] <cjwatson> s/i/I/
[06:32] <zul> me but im only working on two specs
[06:32] <ogra> does mdz have specs ? 
[06:32] <zul> xen-by-default and xenubuntu
[06:33] <cjwatson> zul: oh yes. Those are ones you're putting forward yourself, aren't they?
[06:33] <cjwatson> so you're probably up to speed on them :-)
[06:33] <zul> yes
[06:33] <tkamppeter> I am here. I will put my part now/
[06:33] <zul> and im also interested in a whole bunch of specs
[06:33] <cjwatson> zul: ok, mail me/mdz if you have problems
[06:33] <tkamppeter> Report Oct 13 - Nov  2, 2006
[06:33] <tkamppeter> DONE:
[06:33] <tkamppeter> - FSG OpenPrinting Summit in Lexington, KY:
[06:33] <tkamppeter>   http://www.freestandards.org/en/OpenPrinting/SummitLexington
[06:33] <tkamppeter>    o LSB-3.2-related outcomes:
[06:33] <tkamppeter>      http://www.freestandards.org/images/6/67/Lsb-printing-roadmap.pdf
[06:33] <iwj> conflicts-replaces-checker> I should subscribe to that.
[06:33] <tkamppeter>      The functionality mentioned here must be part of feisty to assure
[06:34] <tkamppeter>      that distribution-independent driver packages auto-downloaded
[06:34] <tkamppeter>      from the internet will work.
[06:34] <tkamppeter>    o Parallel session on common printing and printer setup dialogs:
[06:34] <tkamppeter>      http://wiki.openusability.org/printing/
[06:34] <tkamppeter>    o Jim Zemlin's (CEO FSG) presentation:
[06:34] <tkamppeter>      http://www.freestandards.org/images/5/56/Open_Printing_-_Think_Big.pdf
[06:34] <tkamppeter>      Nice summary of the problems and what has to be done
[06:34] <iwj> Oh, I'm subscribed arleady :-).
[06:34] <tkamppeter> - Upstream discussion with HP developer Donald Welch about HPLIP's fax not 
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   working on Ubuntu (bug 66830): Ubuntu (and current Debian) use PyQt 3.16,
[06:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66830 in python-qt3 "Problem with Socket Inter-Process Communication" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66830
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   Mandriva 2OO7 uses PyQt 3.14. On 3.16 there is an inter-process
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   communication bug which did not exist in 3.14. Donald Welch is working
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   on a solution.
[06:34] <Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2 in program "Warning messages appeared while loading xemacs" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2
[06:34] <tkamppeter> - Answered to bug reports
[06:34] <tkamppeter> TODO:
[06:34] <tkamppeter> - Features/sessions planned for the Ubuntu Developer Summit (*: Submitted 
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   by myself):
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   o Automatic hotplug printer configuration
[06:34] <tkamppeter>     https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/automatic-printer-conf
[06:34] <tkamppeter>     (Accepted session)
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   o *Replace gnome-cups-manager by printerdrake
[06:34] <tkamppeter>     https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/printerdrake
[06:34] <tkamppeter>     (Accepted session)
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   o PPD File Structure Specification
[06:34] <tkamppeter>     https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ppd-file-structure
[06:34] <tkamppeter>     (Not (yet) accepted session)
[06:34] <tkamppeter>   o Standardization of the impression
[06:34] <tkamppeter>     https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/applications-printing
[06:34] <tkamppeter>     (Not (yet) accepted session)
[06:35] <tkamppeter>   o Make PDF "Printer" functionality for CUPS as default
[06:35] <cjwatson> whoa, verbose
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/pdf-printing-cups-as-default
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     (Accepted session)
[06:35] <tkamppeter>   o Easy configuration of printer sharing
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/printer-sharing
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     (Accepted session)
[06:35] <tkamppeter>   o *Automatic download of printer drivers through the internet
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/printerdriverautodownload
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     (Accepted session)
[06:35] <tkamppeter>   o *The results of the FSG OpenPrinting Summit in Lexington and the next Ubuntu
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/printing-summit-lexington-and-ubuntu
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     (Accepted session)
[06:35] <tkamppeter> - Proposed official updates for Ubuntu Edgy
[06:35] <tkamppeter>   o HPLIP faxing functionality (bug 66830): Waiting for a fix from HPLIP
[06:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66830 in python-qt3 "Problem with Socket Inter-Process Communication" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66830
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     or PyQt developers
[06:35] <tkamppeter>   o foo2zjs firmware auto-loading for HP LaserJet 1000/1005/1018/1020
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     (bug 65618, bug 68736): Fixed package already made, only needs to be
[06:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65618 in foo2zjs "Firmware upload to LJ 1000/1005/1008/1020 broken (fix to be proposed as Edgy update)" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65618
[06:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68736 in foo2zjs "foo2zjs does not work with hp laserjet 1018" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68736
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     submitted.
[06:35] <tkamppeter>   o Parallel printer detection seems not to work correctly in Edgy
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     (bug 29050 + duplicates): Needs to be fixed by kernel team and fixed
[06:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29050 in linux-source-2.6.17 "cupsys does not automatically detect parallel printer" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29050
[06:35] <tkamppeter>     kernel provided as update.
[06:36] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: please try to keep reports a bit shorter in future - I think that's more than anyone can read in a relatively time-limited meeting
[06:36] <iwj> printerdriverautodownload - is it just me or is that scary from a security pov ?
[06:37] <ogra> Ubugtu noise is also quite annoying, probably Seveas could disable it for -meeting
[06:37] <pitti> iwj: depends on how we restrict and authenticate the sources, I guess, but I agree
[06:37] <tkamppeter> Sorry, I have added a link to everything and also many bug numbers which made Ubugtu making it twice as long.
[06:38] <cjwatson> Ubugtu added five lines versus your 56. :-)
[06:38] <cjwatson> iwj: would you mind sitting in on that discussion?
[06:38] <tkamppeter> In terms of auto download of printer drivers: We are a desktop distro and shouls make live as easy as possible.
[06:39] <tkamppeter> We will ask the user before auto-downloading anything.
[06:39] <ogra> what about dialup users and non-connected ones ?
[06:39] <pitti> (but with keeping a healthy balance in terms of trusting drivers, etc.)
[06:39] <ogra> they wont be able to use printers ? 
[06:39] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: let's not get into the trap of a usability vs. security argument
[06:39] <pitti> ogra: I don't think we should drop all drivers from the CD
[06:39] <ogra> right
[06:39] <tkamppeter> Auto-downloading is done from freestandards.org, not from each driver authors own site
[06:39] <pitti> let's discuss it on the UDS
[06:40] <iwj> cjwatson: Sure, I've subscribed myself.
[06:40] <tkamppeter> The most important drivers will continue to be available on the CD.
[06:40] <cjwatson> iwj: thanks
[06:40] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: ok, thank you
[06:40] <cjwatson> I think we're all done now; as mentioned, if there's any last-minute stuff, e-mail mdz or me to make sure it gets looked at on Sunday
[06:41] <zul> later..
[06:41] <cjwatson> I've been voluntold to help set up on Sunday, which I think will cover some last-minute stuff
[06:41] <iwj> Phew.
[06:41] <cjwatson> thanks, everyone; adjourned
[06:41] <cjwatson> COFFEE
[06:41] <ogra> ++
[06:41] <pitti> DINNER!
[06:41] <keescook> breakfast!
[06:41] <pitti> thanks to you all, and see you in S.F.!
[06:41] <sladen> tkamppeter: if the linuxprinting.org-ppds / foomatic-filters-ppds packages weren't full of 500 identically individually gzip'ed files, the compressed size would be able 1/10th of the current 25MB since nearly all the files are virtually identically.
[06:41] <iwj> Packing!
[06:41] <mvo> Football!
[06:42] <tfheen> unsharpening cat claws!
[06:42] <pitti> tfheen: *ruffle*
[06:42] <dholbach> thanks
[06:42] <ogra> tfheen, ouch ...
[06:42] <ogra> doesnt that get quite bloody for you ? 
[06:42] <ogra> (my cats dont like it at all)
[06:43] <tkamppeter> sladen, I will look into this and change the packaging appropriately. Best is to report a Launchpad bug about this.
[06:43] <tfheen> ogra: no, they're quite happy about it.
[06:43] <ogra> lucky you
[06:44] <tkamppeter> sladen, foomatic-filter-ppds is not there in Edgy any more, as we have dynamich PPD building of CUPS 1.2.
[06:45] <Keybuk> cjwatson: don't you mean setup on saturday?
[06:45] <tkamppeter> sladen, and the package of individually gzipped files is probably originating from Debian. Perhaps we should report this to the Debian packager.
[06:45] <Keybuk> the first day of MTV is Sunday
[06:53] <cjwatson> Keybuk: er, yeah
[06:53] <cjwatson> I arrive at 13:15
[06:57] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: gunzipping all the ppds makes foomatic-filters-ppd.deb about 3MB smaller, but it also makes it consume about 56MB more disk space when installed
[06:57] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: so it seems like a pretty reasonable tradeoff on the part of the Debian maintaine
[06:57] <cjwatson> r
[06:57] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: I think to get the best of both worlds you'd have to extract the PPDs from a .tar.gz on the fly or something, which probably wouldn't be very fast
[08:05] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, The best is perhaps to gzip the PPD files in the post-install script, but then one would need the full disk space temporarily, as package install is always pre-install-script->copy-all-files->post-install-script, the file copying cannot be intercepted.
[08:08] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: postinst scripts must not modify /usr, though
[08:08] <cjwatson> so that gets difficult
[08:09] <cjwatson> also postinst scripts really shouldn't delete files shipped by the package
[08:09] <cjwatson> (I think the latter's actually a stronger consideration, since it does break some things)
[08:09] <cjwatson> e.g. debsums
[08:31] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, Then perhaps the Debian packaging system needs to be changed, so that when a .gz or a .bz2 file is included that it gets uncompressed on the fly when the package is built and recompressed when the package is installed. Then the packager does not need to care about including compressed files.
[08:32] <cjwatson> that's not going to happen in the remotely near future, and would not be generally appropriate
[10:36] <Seveas> ogra, sure, but people have more than once requested for it to be enabled in here
[10:36] <Seveas> can't have it both ways...
[10:38] <ogra> Seveas, which people ? 
[10:38] <ogra> distro team people ? 
[10:38] <Seveas> I forgot the nicknames, but I'm rather sure that there were at least one or two of them asking for it