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Amaranthimbrandon: find out who your roommate in mountain view is? :)12:25
imbrandonjohn trapsell , whomever that is12:25
imbrandoni guess a KDE developer12:25
=== Amaranth won't be there until 11pm sunday night
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=== LaserJock was imaging going to dinner, "OK, KDE on the left, Gnome on the right, XFCE gets to eat outside"
Amaranthso i need to find somewhere to crash before i show up :)12:26
imbrandonLaserJock, ahahah12:27
crimsuneh? Who's actually going that works on Xfce?12:27
crimsunthe lone trooper12:27
AmaranthJohn Tapsell?12:27
imbrandonAmaranth, yea thats right12:27
imbrandonmy mistake12:27
Amaranthgoogle told me :P12:27
LaserJockthank goodness for google12:28
Amaranthi googled trapsell and it offered tapsell as a spelling suggestion12:28
LaserJockin more ways then one12:28
LaserJockit was really funny at Ubucon12:28
LaserJocksomebody was looking for something12:28
LaserJockand somebody ( I think it was an LTSP guy) yelled "Google i"12:29
LaserJockyou had to be there12:29
poningrurofl I dont think you can do that at mv12:29
crimsunsure you can12:29
LaserJockthe whole left side of the room was google shirts12:29
poningruthe lawyers will make you disapear12:29
LaserJockI'm looking forward to the food12:30
LaserJockmuch better then Paris12:30
TheMusoLaserJock: I'll bet.12:30
imbrandonanyone else see they released wince 6 open source ( shared source lic )12:30
Amaranthso, how about it, anyone willing to house a bum in their hotel room? :)12:30
LaserJocksorry Amaranth, I gave up mine12:30
imbrandonAmaranth, you dont have a room ?12:31
LaserJockI put in a good word for you and ajmitch though12:31
Amaranthi only have a ticket because someone else was nice enough to buy it12:31
Amaranthi figure i'll sort the rest out eventually :P12:31
Amaranth(plane ticket, that is)12:31
crimsunAmaranth: are you planning to stay the entire time?12:31
imbrandonheh, i dont mind personaly , but i dont wanna get canonical in a fit12:32
imbrandonas they are footing my bill :)12:32
Amaranthjust tell mark i'm a beryl developer ;)12:32
LaserJock"I bring bling!"12:33
=== bhale takes 30 pages of UI and beats Amaranth over the head with them
=== imbrandon sicks seele on Amaranth
Amaranthhey, i stay away from the core stuff :P12:33
Amaranthi'm working on gnome integration12:33
BurgworkI believe beryle-gnome-integration is called compiz12:34
poningruAmaranth: err hold on dude asking couple of friends12:34
poningruwho work at mv12:35
poningruerr wait maybe I should ask this first12:36
poningruwhats your attitude toward mofo?12:36
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Amaranthponingru: haha12:36
Amaranthponingru: i'd love to visit? :P12:37
imbrandonmofo ?12:37
Amaranthmozilla foundation12:37
crimsundoes ajmitch have housing for UDS, too?12:41
imbrandonnot 100% sure, last i heard i think whiprush had offered something12:42
imbrandoni dont mind helping ajmitch or Amaranth as i said i just dont want anyone to get their panties in a bunch , you know what i mean12:43
imbrandon( as in a 3rd person in the room )12:43
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bhalei figured out in boston that i am too old to sleep on the floor12:44
Amaranthi'm not :P12:46
Amaranthi think i'm going to have to try to borrow money from someone to get my own room for the first night12:58
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Amaranthor not eat for a day or two :P01:06
ajmitchcrimsun: I do - if I didn't by now, i'd be in trouble01:06
crimsunw/ whiprush et al.?01:07
iXceAmaranth : you're in trouble :p01:07
ajmitchonly option, really :)01:07
Amaranthi've got a fallback01:10
Amaranthbut it'll hurt very badly01:10
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ajmitchAmaranth: how badly?01:10
imbrandonTheMuso, rockin mpd + icecast was exactly what i wanted, got it working now01:10
Amaranthmassive dept badly01:11
ajmitchAmaranth: under a bridge, or in an office?01:11
TheMusoimbrandon: Cool.01:11
imbrandonhttp://federation.imbrandon.com:8000/mpd.ogg.m3u if anyone cares to listen to my taste of music01:14
imbrandonnow that its working thanks to TheMuso :)01:14
ajmitchimbrandon: I just got the email you sent yesterday nominating the known world01:17
imbrandonkinda late01:17
imbrandondid you get the one after with a smaller list ?01:18
ajmitchI got that one first01:18
ajmitchlike several hours ago :)01:18
=== ajmitch blames the ISP's mail servers
TheMusoimbrandon: Is that on one of your own boxes?01:21
imbrandonits here at the house01:21
LaserJockI just got done "recabling" our lab for the new guy01:22
LaserJockhe wondered why we don't have any Windows machines in our lab01:22
luisbgLaserJock, what did you reply?01:22
LaserJock"cause we don't need them"01:23
LaserJockI managed to dig up an old Windows 2k box for him01:23
imbrandonhaha you should have gave him a skined kde :)01:23
LaserJocknow I've got 2 Linux boxen, an iMac, a Windows 2k box, 2 printers, and UPS sitting more-or-less on 1 desk01:24
LaserJocks/sitting/sitting on/01:24
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LaserJockthe kvm was a little cluttered01:26
ajmitchLaserJock: and a chemist needs all this?01:26
LaserJockand I had to rip out a NIC to put in the Windows box01:26
LaserJockajmitch: we inherited a theoretician's lab01:26
ajmitchwith all their junk?01:27
LaserJockwell, we inherited their junk (and a grad student) but not lab/office space :(01:27
LaserJockbut yeah, we don't really even need computers much01:29
Burgworkimbrandon: actually, I think GNOME actually looks closer to Windows, if you change the default menu structure and panels01:29
LaserJockwell, it's not so much the "look" but the applications01:30
imbrandonBurgwork, http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/screenshots/snapshot1.png01:30
imbrandonthats from my luna theme a few months ago01:30
LaserJock"can you run Windows software on it?" is usually what I get01:30
imbrandonLaserJock, i have IE6 Photoshop and iTunes all in that screenshot01:31
Burgworkimbrandon: it is isn't quite right. the GNOME screenshots I have seen are actually much closer01:31
ajmitchimbrandon: there's a special circle of hell reserved for people like you01:31
LaserJockwell, MS Office is the killer app for use unfortunately01:31
Burgworknow, of course, this is just a giant boobie prize01:31
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imbrandonBurgwork, well its peiced from screenshots so it should be exact01:32
imbrandoneg ss i took from a winbox01:32
imbrandonwoot i have a whole 3 listeners to my stream lol01:33
=== ajmitch will avoid subscribing
imbrandonheh i'm just ahppy i got it working01:34
=== LaserJock thinks "stream of what?" :/
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imbrandon3 doors down is playing atm LaserJock , just random music i'm playing01:34
LaserJockso I can listen to what you're listening?01:35
LaserJockthis must be some sick core-dev brainwashing campaign01:35
crimsunwha, no gangsta rap?01:35
imbrandonlol no01:36
ajmitchLaserJock: does he have shakira? :)01:36
LaserJockajmitch: I might listen if he did01:36
TheMusoSo imbrandon, are you just tuning into your own icecast server to listen to your music at the same time?01:36
imbrandonhaha i do01:36
imbrandonLaserJock, ^01:36
LaserJockoh geeze01:36
imbrandonTheMuso, yea i have icecast and mpd running on one computer and pympd on another01:37
TheMusoI think there's a KDE client.01:37
TheMusoIs that track improperly tagged or something?01:37
imbrandonit has no title01:38
=== imbrandon ques up shakera
imbrandonjust for LaserJock HAHAHHA01:38
TheMusoshakera sucks. Nuff said.01:39
LaserJockwhat the heck is this?01:39
=== imbrandon chooses something else
LaserJock"Underneath Your Clothes" ?01:39
LaserJockthat's shakera?!?!01:40
imbrandonCurrent Song:Shakira - Underneath Your Clothes01:40
LaserJocktbh, I've never even heard or seen her01:40
=== LaserJock lives under a rock
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ajmitchLaserJock: neither have I, but I've heard it's crap music :)01:40
ajmitchhey bmonty01:41
bmontyhi ajmitch01:41
TheMusoajmitch: Hit it on the head.01:41
TheMusoSHe can't even sing.01:41
LaserJockit's like some kinda Country/Pop something01:41
imbrandonits not terrible is LaserJock01:41
imbrandonlatin pop01:41
ajmitchLaserJock: ugh01:41
ajmitchburn it all01:41
imbrandonok back to the good stuff01:42
TheMusogah. Speakup is being screwy again01:42
imbrandoni could always put on some bach01:43
=== TheMuso would do something similar to Imbrandon, but doesn't have enough upstream bandwidth to support more than a few listeners, if that.
imbrandonheh i dont have much, but i only have 2 or 3 listners soo01:45
TheMusoIf dreamhost had icecast support, well that would be another story.01:47
LaserJocksomething happened, I can't hear it anymore01:47
imbrandonyou might have droped, relick the link01:48
bmontyI have some recordings of finger nails on chalk boards and my son screaming if you guys are interested :)01:48
TheMusoheh no thanks.01:48
ajmitchbmonty: I'll pass on that thanks01:49
=== imbrandon has kiss playing now, and something he forgot queud up
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LaserJockI don't know what to use to listen to it01:49
imbrandonLaserJock, i'm using amarok to listen01:49
LaserJockoh, well totem seems to be working ok01:49
TheMusoLaserJock: What were you using?01:49
imbrandonmost anything that will play ogg will01:49
imbrandondo the titles of the songs get streamed too ?01:50
imbrandonahh cool01:50
LaserJockTheMuso: rhythmbox01:51
TheMusoLaserJock: Right.01:51
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imbrandonbmonty, no like?01:52
imbrandonheh this is the first "slower" song i've played01:52
bmontynope, I'm definately not a lionel richie fan01:52
TheMusoRhythmbox doesn't have gappless playback yet does it.01:53
TheMusoI know mpd does.01:53
TheMusoWHich was another thing that got me hooked on it.01:53
imbrandonyea if i could get dreamhost streaming going i would stream full time01:55
imbrandonjust put my collection on random01:55
bmontygood choice01:56
TheMusoWould help get through some of that bandwidth.01:56
imbrandondoes mpd pick up new songs if you add them to the directory ?01:56
TheMusoNo, you have to update the  db and the playlist.01:56
imbrandonthat kinda sucks01:56
TheMusoDoesn't bother me.01:56
TheMusoYou could set up a cron job to do it though. :)01:57
TheMusoYou'd have to make sure you don't add duplicate entries however.01:57
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imbrandonmy collection is pretty scattered01:58
TheMusoHeh right.01:58
imbrandoni need to clean it up01:58
imbrandoni have every thing from bach to nelly01:58
=== TheMuso is in the middle of re-ripping everything, to ensure directory structure consistancy, and to put it all in FLAC.
TheMusoNelly? eeeew01:59
freeflyingimbrandon: hi02:02
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imbrandonheya freeflying02:03
imbrandoni think this is my anthem02:04
zakamehi all02:08
zakamedoes anyone have a working hibernate in kubuntu edgy?02:08
imbrandonfoood, bbiab02:11
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AmaranthSo if I was staying a night at the hotel Canonical setup, anyone know how to get there from the airport?02:34
Amaranthwithout driving or taking a cab the whole way, if possible02:35
ajmitchcaltrain to sunnyvale, taxi from the train station?02:35
ajmitchwhat airport?02:36
Amaranththat's the wild palms in sunnyvale then?02:37
Amaranth8 miles away from google02:39
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imbrandonyea caltrain looks like the way to go, much cheaper than a shuttle03:28
imbrandonlike 10x less it looks like03:28
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zuldo you have to book the shuttle online or couldnt you do it at the airport03:30
=== LaserJock will be cruising around in his minivan
zulooh come and pick me up then ;)03:30
LaserJockor maybe I can get my wife's cousin to drop me off03:30
imbrandonLaserJock, you wont be there the 4th though right ?03:30
LaserJockis that Saturday?03:31
imbrandonzul, i guess at the airport, i think i'm gonna take a train ride03:31
LaserJockI was going to say03:32
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LaserJockI'll be in Mt. View on Saturday night03:37
LaserJockI'm going to spend Saturday with my Grandparents in Sacramento03:37
LaserJockI haven't seen my grandpa since he got diagnosed with cancer03:38
zulthats nice03:38
zulexcept the cancer bit03:38
imbrandonerr well cept for grandpa03:39
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LaserJockyeah, it's been interesting03:43
LaserJockhe seems to be doing well with the chemo03:43
ajmitchLaserJock: so you won't be there to pick me up at the airport on saturday morning? :)03:50
ajmitchwell, lunchtime03:50
ajmitchhow disappointing ;)03:50
imbrandonajmitch, what time do you get there ?03:51
ajmitchimbrandon: when do you get in?03:51
_nixternalajmitch: please don't talk about food03:51
_nixternalim sittin' in class and my gut is rumbling03:51
zulhe lj shuttleservice03:51
ajmitchimbrandon: 11:15 to SFO03:51
LaserJockzul: heh, no thanks03:51
imbrandoni think elk is on that flight03:51
ajmitchshe's on an earlier flight03:51
ajmitchmpt & infinity are on the flight I'm on03:51
imbrandonshe arrives about that time03:51
ajmitchshe gets in at 9:40 or so03:52
zuldamn it am i the only one going to sjc03:52
LaserJockI'm from Montana, the bay area is a nightmare to drive around03:52
imbrandonahh thats right03:52
imbrandon<elkbuntu> 10:59:22 Terminal Not Available 10:0503:53
imbrandonso we're all within a few minutes03:53
imbrandonher at 10 me at 1030 and yall at 111503:53
imbrandonzul, probably03:54
imbrandoni was thinking about taking caltrain after looking at the map03:54
imbrandonfrom the airport to sunnyvale03:55
zulthe hotel apparently does have wireless03:55
ajmitchimbrandon: you could just wait around the airport for awhile for us :)03:55
imbrandongah brb phone03:55
zakamehmm which packages control hibernate? acpi-support?03:55
LaserJockI can't believe you guys are stuck in sunnyvale03:56
LaserJockI thought Paris was bad03:56
LaserJockbut at least we were staying in the same city03:56
imbrandonajmitch, i had planned on it if you wanted , it wont be a long wait ( probably take me that long to get my luggage )03:56
imbrandononly 45 min03:56
ajmitchimbrandon: it'll take awhile for me, since I've got to go through customs03:56
ajmitchwhich tends to not be too long03:57
imbrandonahh thats right, but thats no biggie really03:57
ajmitchat least I've been to SFO before :)03:57
zulyeah just dont bring any vegemite03:57
LaserJockyucky yucky03:57
imbrandoni'll probably try to find a hotspot and check my mail or something while i wait03:57
ajmitchimbrandon: you know how far the caltrain station is from the airport?03:57
imbrandonit says its AT the airport03:57
ajmitchhm, the map said otherwise, but I think it is at the airport03:58
imbrandonand then 2.3 miles from the hotel03:58
_nixternali can have sam pick everyone up, but no looking at my gf!03:58
imbrandonin sunnyvale03:58
ajmitchseems like there's wireless at the airport, but you have to pay03:59
ajmitch_nixternal: haha03:59
imbrandonfirst one in zone 203:59
imbrandonis the airport03:59
ajmitchyeah, see the map for it03:59
_nixternalya, if i get my walking papers to miss school next week, I will be there Friday..I have it planned to just stay with here for a couple of reasons, but it won't cost me a dime..plus she works at Google ;)04:00
imbrandonahh yea it seems to be off a bit, but i bet the map is wrong04:00
ajmitchI hope so04:00
_nixternalwhat color is meeting going to be in?04:00
_nixternalor the uds rather04:00
ajmitch"At Millbrae station pick up the free shuttle bus for transfer to the airport."04:00
imbrandonno idea _nixternal04:01
imbrandonajmitch, ahhh probably not from the airport TO the station04:01
_nixternalred and blue are the coolest, green is marketing and sales (go figure), i yellow is off limits if i remember correctly04:01
LaserJockthey better have the stupid onramp for 101 fixed, last time I spent 30 min going around in circles trying to figure out how to get from Highway 580 onto 10104:02
_nixternalthere also used to be a "Tech Corridor" Shuttle there as well..don't know if it is still there though04:02
ajmitch"To access San Francisco International Airport, BART is operating a train about every 15 minutes between the Millbrae station and SFO. All passengers must purchase a ticket before boarding."04:03
_nixternalheh, be careful on BART04:03
zulhow come?04:04
_nixternalthere is a whole nother meaning to "Bay Area" rapid transit04:04
ajmitchI'm sure if a group of us travel from the airport it won't be too bad04:04
imbrandonajmitch, yea04:04
_nixternaldepending on the locale, but going southwest towards google shall be fine, you just don't want to head towards oakland on it04:04
imbrandoni'll just stick arround and wait for yall04:04
imbrandonand see if elkbuntu wants too also ( ping ? )04:05
imbrandonheh someone make a big ubuntu sign so we can all see where to meetup lol04:05
ajmitchshe may not want to wait that long04:05
imbrandonajmitch, true04:05
ajmitchdepends which terminal we meet in, too04:05
imbrandonnot only that she will probably get out of customs about the time i arrive04:06
imbrandonbecosue its only 30 minutes diffrence04:06
_nixternal30 minutes in customs?  that would be super duper fast04:07
imbrandonhrm i wonder what terminal i'm comming in on04:07
_nixternali spent an hour coming from canada last month, without 1 shoe04:07
zulcanadian customs is nothing04:08
_nixternalit is easier to come across the border with an elephant and a mariacchi band then it is to get through customs04:08
_nixternalcanadian customs was through the metal detector, and the plain04:08
_nixternalplane as well04:08
_nixternalbut chicago o'hare, coming from the plane, back through customs, was over an hour..they took my 1 shoe for testing04:08
_nixternalno place to sit..i was mad as all heck04:09
zul_nixternal, next time just say aboot and eh and it will go quicker04:09
_nixternalthey would have marked me a terrorist...since i have a common name im on their "check" list04:10
_nixternalso is my dad04:10
ajmitchthe 1 time I've been to the US, I had no problems04:10
zulyeah you dont want the rcmp after you04:10
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_nixternalajmitch: well, we are at level orange..gahahahaha i couldn't even finish that joke04:10
zulheh last time i was in the us was at niagra falls04:10
_nixternalgahah..i got a lil tanked with a mounty..they are cool04:11
zulnot if your last name is arar hah04:11
_nixternalthat was in Banf, Alberta04:11
LaserJockat UDS-Paris, the CDG cattle chute was the worst part04:13
imbrandon12.8 C in SF saturday04:14
ajmitchnot too bad04:14
ajmitch17.5C in dunedin at the moment04:14
LaserJockimbrandon: at CDG they just put you in a big funnel for security04:14
zulheh low of -7C in ottawa on saturday im leaving at the right time04:15
imbrandonits a whole 1C right now here04:15
_nixternalLaserJock: terminal 2a?04:21
LaserJock_nixternal: ?04:22
_nixternalcoming from the terminal into that funnel04:22
_nixternali sat my laptop bag down and forgot it04:22
_nixternalnot really..it was the companies ;)04:22
ajmitchI've got a backpack for my laptop04:23
ajmitchmuch easier to carry round airports for hours on end04:23
imbrandonyea i was thinking about a backpack04:23
imbrandonfor my lappy04:23
_nixternali was on my way to belgium..where the company Real was out of..they bought our company (TAVA) in 200004:23
imbrandonajmitch, look like i get in SF in terminal 1, you know what one you all got ?04:23
ajmitchinternational terminal, I think it's 304:24
_nixternalthey will be in the international04:24
_nixternalway far away from 104:24
ajmitchit's not that far04:24
_nixternaloh, its a good jot04:24
imbrandonok well since i get there first i'll come to your term04:24
_nixternalimbrandon: it will take you all day to get there...walk 100', smoke break, mt. dew, walk another 100', repeat04:25
ajmitchok, international terminal != terminal 304:25
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_nixternalimbrandon: if i remember correctly...you have to goto them actually04:26
imbrandonheh thats what i said :)04:26
_nixternalyou can drive to the international terminal, walking would stink, but they have the escalator things iirc, like o'hare does04:28
elkbuntuimbrandon, hmm?04:28
imbrandonheya chick04:28
imbrandonfancy waiting for ajmitch and crew with us ?>04:28
ajmitchimbrandon: BART station in in the international terminal, if we plan to get that to the caltrain station04:28
elkbuntuno problemo04:29
imbrandonwe could just meet at the BART station then probably would be the easiest04:29
ajmitchhey elkbuntu04:29
elkbuntuhow long a wait?04:29
ajmitchyeah, if we get the right one04:29
ajmitchelkbuntu: my flight lands at 11:1504:29
imbrandonelkbuntu, it will be about 1hours 15 minutes for you04:30
ajmitchso it could be a little while04:30
imbrandonis there more than one BART station ?04:30
elkbuntuimbrandon, i land at 9:4204:30
imbrandonahh i was thinking you said 100504:30
elkbuntubut hour and a half aint bad04:30
ajmitchimbrandon: looks like there's 1 station on 2 levels, or something silly04:31
imbrandonahh /me looks04:31
ajmitchah, 2 entrances to it, according to wikipedia04:31
ajmitchhttp://www.bart.gov/guide/airport/sfo.asp <-- confusing04:32
ajmitchairtrain station is free, to the BART station :)04:32
LaserJockwell, San Fran area is a bit confusing04:32
ajmitchso we meet at BART station, I guess04:32
ajmitchI'll see if I can find mpt & infinity as well04:33
imbrandonThere are two entrances and exits  one on level 3, adjacent to the grand foyer off the north side of the International Terminal; and the other is a level up at the Garage G/BART AirTrain station.04:33
imbrandonfrom the wiki04:33
imbrandonso i guess level 3 at the BART station as we likely wont have a reason to be in the garage04:34
imbrandonelkbuntu, ajmitch ^04:35
imbrandonoh wow i just realized i'll be surrounded by AU/NZ accents04:35
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ajmitchimbrandon: that's fine :)04:37
imbrandonkk /me wrote it on his itenerary so he dosent forget04:37
ajmitchI'll be getting off caltrain at MV04:40
ajmitch& probably getting a taxi to the hotel I'm at04:40
imbrandonyea , me and elk will go onto sunnyvale04:41
imbrandoni looked the trainstaion from there to the hotel is 2 miles ( too far to walk with luggage )04:41
ajmitch& any others going there04:41
imbrandonso likely a cab04:41
LaserJockI'm sorry I probably won't be over there in time04:42
LaserJockI could shuttle you guys to the hotel04:42
LaserJockalthough I'd probably get lost anyway04:42
ajmitchyeah, I haven't checked distance for the hotel I'm at04:43
LaserJockajmitch: are you in Mt. View?04:43
bddebianI hate you all :-)04:43
ajmitch1.3 mi (about 2 mins)04:44
ajmitchLaserJock: yeah, but it's a little distance from the train station04:44
ajmitchI could probably walk it in a few minutes, the suitcase has wheels04:44
ajmitchbasically just 1 mile down a street04:45
imbrandonmine does too ( wheels ) but i dunno, guess i'll see when i get there , likely will cab it though04:45
LaserJockhmm, I wonder how easy it'll be to get a cab04:51
LaserJockI'd guess around a train station there'd be something04:51
ajmitchshould be simple04:51
_MMA_Anyone here use Eyas reservations?04:52
ajmitchLaserJock: so when will you grace us with your presence?04:52
imbrandonEyas as in the company canonical recomended ?04:53
imbrandonyea i did04:53
_MMA_Did they mess up your name?04:53
_MMA_they tacked on "mr" to my 1st name.04:53
LaserJockwell, I'll be at Google Sunday morning04:53
LaserJock_MMA_: that's normal04:53
imbrandon_MMA_, yea that means your a male :) its normal04:54
_MMA_Wont the airport hastel me?04:54
Burgworkunless you are not, in fact, male04:54
LaserJock_MMA_: I had to email them asking about it too :-)04:54
_MMA_Only in my dreams.04:54
imbrandonheh i dont wanna know04:54
_MMA_Ahh... Ok.04:55
_MMA_joejaxx and I had the same issue.04:55
joejaxxthe problem with me is04:55
joejaxxi am leaving from newark library international airport04:55
joejaxx== chaos city04:56
joejaxxLaserJock: the other thing is i have a numeral on the end of my name04:56
LaserJockjoejaxx: cause of your name?04:57
ajmitch_MMA_: I had the same problem for bookings to UDU04:57
ajmitchit's not a problem at all04:57
_MMA_Good to know.04:57
LaserJockuggg, this wiki work is tedious04:58
LaserJockFull Text searches periodically stop working04:58
joejaxxLaserJock: yes04:59
joejaxxbut on the itinerary the numeral is not there05:00
ajmitchhm, it might only be about a 30-40 minute walk from your hotel to where I'm staying05:00
ajmitchI might do that on saturday05:00
ajmitchI was wrong, I thought it was on another street05:03
ajmitchoh well05:03
joejaxxit should be interesting to see everyone in person05:03
imbrandonajmitch, or a 5 min train ride and a 10 minute walk05:04
imbrandonfrom hotel to hotel05:04
=== imbrandon just hopes sebas dosent end up with another foot in the face this time
LaserJockI doubt it05:07
imbrandonjoejaxx, sebeas ended up in a slight altercation in paris05:08
imbrandonjoejaxx, http://kwwii.blogspot.com/05:09
imbrandonkwwii hasent posted since then so its still on top05:09
ajmitchimbrandon: oh?05:10
joejaxximbrandon: wow05:10
ajmitchthat's sad05:10
joejaxxis Mr. Kuegler, S e v e a s?05:12
joejaxxi must be mixing people up05:13
joejaxxwhat is MR. Kuegler's irc name?05:13
joejaxxah ok05:14
joejaxxv and b05:14
imbrandondennis k. is Seve^as05:14
joejaxxi was confusing the names :\05:15
Burgworkinteresting: distrowatch 7 day stats: 4  Xubuntu  1069 up, 6  Kubuntu  986 up05:15
imbrandonxubuntu getting some love05:16
joejaxxwhat kinds of stats are those?05:17
Burgworkhits on the various distrowatch pages, one per IP per day05:18
joejaxxah ok05:18
joejaxxhaha we are still on the waiting list05:19
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ajmitchjdub is smoking something again06:00
ajmitchsee his zombies post06:00
LaserJockyeah, it's was kinda rambling06:05
LaserJockhe to goofy to make a good zombie though06:06
ajmitchhe has been known to be serious06:06
LaserJockhe's a lot of fun06:07
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LaserJockI trimmed off  ~30 redirects06:18
imbrandonwow , yea i dont understand jdub's post at all06:28
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LaserJockok, I created a MOTU wiki sandbox07:21
LaserJockto put temp/draft pages07:21
LaserJockis anybody alive?07:24
giskard:) but i'm going to school :)07:25
giskardsee you later.07:25
imbrandongnight all07:27
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crimsunalive? pssht.07:28
LaserJockimbrandon: this early? you sound like you're moving away from your European schedule07:28
imbrandonheh trying too for MTV07:28
imbrandoni'm almost on a normal schedule07:28
nixternalthat will never happen07:29
imbrandonit will for a week07:29
imbrandonthen go back to normal07:29
nixternalhe is a european hillbilly07:29
nixternalwell, UDS isn't looking to hot, but if all else fails, at least i get to hang out with rms on saturday07:30
imbrandonas long as he stays away from mtv i'm good07:30
crimsunman, I'm just getting no comments on this dapper-proposed SRU.07:31
imbrandonwhat one ?07:31
nixternalcrimsun: just add some political humor to it, you will get plenty of comments, although probably not the comments you are looking for07:31
crimsunbug 6285507:31
UbugtuMalone bug 62855 in alsa-lib "Stereo line-in capture broken in alsa-lib 1.0.10 for "simple mixer" cards." [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6285507:31
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dholbachgood morning09:06
LaserJockhi dholbach09:06
dholbachhey LaserJock09:06
kkubasikor goodnight if you happen to be a loser like me who's still preping for a physics exam09:07
Hobbseehey LaserJock09:07
LaserJockhi Hobbsee09:07
Hobbseehey dholbach09:07
dholbachhey Hobbsee09:07
LaserJockdholbach: I've been working on the MOTU wiki today09:07
dholbachkkubasik: all the best with that exam!09:07
kkubasikdholbach: thanks much!09:07
dholbachLaserJock: I'll have a look at the myriads of wiki mails in a bit ;)09:07
LaserJockit's not so visible right now, but I got rid of a lot of clutter09:08
LaserJockdeleted ~30 pages there were just redirects09:08
LaserJockand created MOTU/SandBox09:08
LaserJockas a place for people to put drafts, etc.09:08
LaserJockone thing I've noticed is that it's hard to tell if a page is a work in progress09:09
LaserJockor if it's a finished, stable page09:09
BurgundaviaLaserJock: in deleting redirects, you may have caused issues09:09
LaserJockBurgundavia: I checked them09:09
kkubasikagreed, when I was looking for info, it was quite hard to tell if09:09
Burgundaviaok, just checking :)09:09
kkubasiksomething is done09:09
LaserJockBurgundavia: googled and full text search in the wiki09:09
LaserJockBurgundavia: I either fixed broken links or left redirects that had lots of links to them09:10
LaserJocknext step is to clean up existing pages, making sure they are updated, perhaps merging some pages together09:10
LaserJockthen restructuring the main MOTU page so info is easier to get to09:11
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ajmitchhi all09:32
ajmitchdholbach: how goes the SRU battle? :)09:34
dholbachajmitch: there is no battle09:34
dholbachI wished that some people followed up with there preferences09:35
Hobbseewhy is the SRU thing so hard anyway?09:35
ajmitchdholbach: the battle to get a team together quickly, not between MOTUs09:36
ajmitchhello Hobbsee09:36
Hobbseehi ajmitch09:36
dholbachajmitch: I said I'd do it Friday, no?09:37
dholbachso everybody could have their chance proposing their favourite MOTU :)09:38
Hobbseedholbach: why not just nominate all of the MOTU's - that seems to be what's happening :P09:39
=== ajmitch is still waiting to receive mail that's in the archives
dholbachthat's fine with me, but if 10 people voted for MOTU a, another 8 for MOTU b, ... it'd make things easier09:39
dholbachanyway... don't complain if I pick random people in the end09:39
=== dholbach pout
ajmitchoh I'm not complaining09:40
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Hobbseei got nominated once, so that can be ignored :)09:40
dholbachHobbsee: everybody did ;)09:40
ajmitchmost people did, yes09:40
Hobbseedholbach: excellent!  :D09:40
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LaserJockdholbach: imbrandon's email sort of settled it for me09:47
dholbachLaserJock: hum, I'm not quite sure I understand that post - did imbrandon just pick some people for the team there?09:50
dholbachthat's not what was discussed before09:51
LaserJockwell, I nominated too many it seems09:51
LaserJockso we wanted to shorten the list09:51
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Hobbseeand it seems like few will reject it09:51
LaserJockonly Hobbsee and StevenK haven't accepted their nomination from that list09:52
=== Hobbsee likely wont
HobbseeLaserJock: trouble was, neither of us seriously thought about it, before our names got chucked up there.  give us each a bit of time :P09:52
ajmitchhey LaserJock09:52
=== dholbach follows up
ajmitchdholbach: -uvf was just for edgy, right?09:53
ajmitchteam membership, I mean09:53
dholbachajmitch: yeah, we should agree on a new team before feisty's UniverseFreeze09:54
=== ajmitch removes self
dholbachand maybe we get a better voting mechanism together09:54
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LaserJockdholbach: but I though you were MOTU sabdfl ;-)09:57
LaserJockwho need voting :-)09:58
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ajmitchvoting is good if it actually works09:58
dholbachwe'll improve on that09:59
=== dholbach is confident
LaserJockwell, so far from what I've seen, votes during meetings are the most effective and fast09:59
ajmitchonly if you have a short list of names10:00
LaserJockyeah, but I think we could have come to a pretty swift consensus in an IRC meeting10:00
LaserJockorganizing the meeting is the difficult part10:00
dholbachdecoupling from IRC! :)10:01
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minghuaI'll reply imbrandon's mail to pick my favorite then, since dholbach wants everybody's opinion10:01
dholbachminghua: pick whoever you want, not just from that list10:02
minghuadholbach: but not much point if I pick someone who hasn't accepted nomination yet, is it?10:02
Hobbseeminghua: sure it is10:03
dholbachminghua: if he/she accepts after your post, that's cool10:03
dholbachas I said: friday night, saturday morning, the team will be ready10:03
minghualet me decline the nomination for me first...10:03
ajmitchdholbach: we're not trying to pressure you, don't worry :)10:03
dholbachchipx86 as lego man: http://flickr.com/photos/chipx86/285519943/ :-)10:04
minghuaHobbsee: err... by "sure it is", do you mean there is a point or not?10:07
minghuaHobbsee: if there is, what is the point?  like dholbach said, to make him/her accept?10:07
Hobbseeminghua: oh, sorry.  as in, you may as well.  just because they havent responded yet doestn necessarily say that they mean know10:08
Hobbseeer, doesnt necessarily say that they're going to decline10:08
=== Hobbsee kicks her brain
Hobbseeminghua: it'd probably help to know if more people supported them10:08
minghuaHobbsee: yeah, makes sense10:08
=== minghua goes nominate Hobbsee
Hobbseei dont get it, why are people nominating me???10:09
LaserJockcause you're cute and cuddly like the ponies we so desperately want10:10
ajmitchHobbsee: because people think you'll do a good job10:10
LaserJockoops, did I say that out loud? :-)10:10
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poningruhahahaha mako in an ad for acm10:26
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minghuaErr... is there regular moderating for ubuntu-motu mailing list?10:27
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LaserJockdid he fall asleep on his keyboard?10:36
ajmitchmust have :)10:36
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=== LaserJock chalks it up to a KDE thing ;-)
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=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Edgy frozen: All further uploads need to be for edgy-updates or when feisty opens
=== Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by bhale at Sun Oct 29 11:47:02 2006
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Adri2000slomo: here?06:09
slomoAdri2000: sure06:09
Adri2000why liferea is 0ubuntu? it is already in Debian06:10
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slomoAdmiral_Chicago: because debian still has a much older version than we habe06:11
slomoAdri2000: ^---06:11
slomothey're at 1.0.18-1, we're at 1.0.23-0ubuntu106:11
Admiral_Chicagoslomo: ?06:11
slomoAdmiral_Chicago: sorry, xchat's bad nickname autocompletion :/06:11
Admiral_Chicagoslomo: ah it's all good. Konversation is much better06:12
Adri2000slomo: ok, I saw that06:12
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Adri2000"a new version will be uploaded in the next few days." said the maintainer on 15th october06:13
UbugtuDebian bug 393160 in liferea "liferea: Package outdated" [Normal,Open] 06:13
slomoso what? :)06:13
Adri2000don't know :p06:14
Admiral_Chicagoi just got pwnt on digg. i was about to upload the KDE 4.0 story but got beat out because i took to look hunting down the right link06:14
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luisbgdebian/rules:19: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: Doesn't exit06:28
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ogramissing build-dep on quilt i'd guess06:34
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luisbggonna check06:35
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luisbgogra, you were right, quilt was the one06:39
luisbgogra, can you make me a small favour?06:43
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LaserJockluisbg: I think he's in a meeting, is it something I can help you with?06:44
luisbgLaserJock, check what I did here...06:45
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UbugtuMalone bug 51635 in ardour "missing dependencies" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 06:45
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LaserJockluisbg: does it need a particular version of jackd?06:46
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luisbgimo no06:47
LaserJockthen that looks fine to me06:47
luisbgok cool, just checking =)06:48
luisbgstill don't have too much confidence in myself06:48
luisbgLaserJock, I joined the ubuntu studio team06:48
luisbgthey are starting so need loads of help06:49
luisbgand since loads of it is non technical06:49
luisbgI've been all day helping06:49
luisbgLaserJock, will ask for help when we try to package cinelerra06:52
luisbgI've heard it's hell to package06:53
luisbga few have tried before06:53
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luisbgLaserJock, are apps that need java hard to package?06:59
LaserJockit's not that they are hard to package06:59
LaserJockbut they are usually not so cool because Sun's Java is not Free07:00
LaserJockif they can a Free java VM then it not bad07:00
luisbghow does azureus does it?07:01
luisbghey ajmitch07:01
LaserJockluisbg: look at apt-cache show azureus07:02
luisbgI see07:04
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Amaranthcrimsun: ping?07:28
crimsunAmaranth: pong07:36
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yotuxhave a question about packaging07:46
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luisbgis there a guide for java application packaging in ubuntu?07:55
LaserJockDebian has a Java policy though, I think07:56
crimsunAmaranth: I'm here, my responses haven't gone through07:56
ajmitchhi crimsun07:56
crimsun(being unidentified and all)07:56
Amaranthcrimsun: oh07:57
crimsunhi ajmitch07:57
Amaranthi forget how to turn that off07:57
LaserJockwhy are we turning that off?07:57
LaserJockgrrr, is there a way to sort/filter subscribed specs08:00
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luisbgLaserJock, I have read the debian java policy08:01
luisbgbut looking to the azureus package and original source... they are very different08:01
luisbgand that confuses me08:01
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LaserJockdarn it08:09
LaserJockI forgot to bring a NIC in to work08:10
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LaserJockI guess that'll teach me to not toss out all the junker computers08:14
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bhale4 port GIG-E08:14
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LaserJockbhale: ggrr08:15
LaserJockI'm just trying to find something that's not ISA08:15
bhalethey are like $500 a piece, freaking ridiculous08:15
LaserJock\o/ found one. hopefully it's not dead08:17
AmaranthPCI-E 4 port GIG-E?08:20
bhaleAmaranth: yes08:20
Amaranthi hope they've also got that hardware assist crap08:20
bhalei cant get enough of them08:20
Amaranthunless you have a beast of a machine managing all the data08:21
bhalesniffer ports08:21
bhalehm i put 3 in a box dude :)08:21
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LaserJockhmm, is there a way to totally reset the network settings08:25
LaserJockmy box seems to think there's an eth0 that isn't there08:26
LaserJockbut it puts the real eth0 as eth208:26
bhale /etc/iftab08:26
bhaleyou can map names to mac addresses08:27
LaserJockgeeze my networking is hosed08:28
LaserJockit's all because the onboard LAN seems to have died08:28
LaserJockhow is iftab created?08:29
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LaserJockautomatically at boot?08:29
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bhalei think by the installer08:30
bhaleif you comment it out08:30
bhaleudev does whatever it feels like08:30
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Amaranthyay for randomly changing network device names :P08:31
bhaleyeah it rules08:32
LaserJockwell, if the gnome networking tool didn't seem to do weird things it'd be nice08:33
LaserJockdarn it, I'm so close to reinstalling just so I can get some networking08:36
ajmitchgah, forums08:43
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LaserJockajmitch: what now?08:44
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ajmitchjust crap08:44
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LaserJockI want to believe I was never that kind of forum user :/08:45
ajmitchI really shouldn't read them, they're bad for my health08:45
LaserJockwell, luckily the "Education and Science" subforum was started08:46
LaserJockI can just go there08:46
LaserJockand not wander around too much :-)08:47
ajmitchI was reading the feisty section08:47
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imbrandonmoins fella's08:57
LaserJockok, here's a question, do we have an easy way to see what packages are in -proposed?08:58
LaserJockhi imbrandon08:58
imbrandonhrm not that i know of08:58
imbrandonajmitch, there is a feisty section ?08:59
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Burgworkhey imbrandon09:01
imbrandonheya Burgwork09:02
LaserJockimbrandon: I added edgy-proposed to my sources list, but then I realized that I wouldn't know if I was testing something or not :/09:02
imbrandonyou can madison and see where its comming from09:02
LaserJockbut I'd have to madison everything09:02
imbrandonon a per package basis09:02
imbrandonthat sucks09:02
LaserJockit was just a  thought09:02
LaserJockI thought maybe there might be a proposed.ubuntu.com or something like that that listed the contents of the repo09:03
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imbrandonhttp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-proposed/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz looks empty09:05
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ajmitchimbrandon: of course there's a feisty section, where else do they come up with this crap?09:12
LaserJockI thought the Ubuntu fairies waved their magic wands of the DC09:14
ajmitchsome of the forum people think that09:15
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ajmitchpeople that can't dist-upgrade to feisty because they spell it fiesty in sources.list :)09:19
whiprushthat was awesp,e09:19
whiprushawesome even09:19
whiprushsorry, new keyboard.09:19
ajmitchhey whiprush!09:19
LaserJockthat one's going to bite me09:19
whiprushhi aj09:19
imbrandonheya whiprush09:19
LaserJockI know I'm going to get an uploaded rejected cause I'll spell it wrong09:20
whiprushhi imbrandon09:20
imbrandonajmitch, rockin ( next question is why they are dist upgrading to feisty now anyhow )09:20
lifelessclearly it should be spelt fisty09:20
lifelessthat way there would be no confusion09:20
LaserJockmaybe I'll have to write a script that says, "It's feisty stupid"09:20
whiprushit's hoary not whorey!09:20
ajmitchimbrandon: "because they can"09:21
ajmitchLaserJock: dput hooks09:21
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LaserJockimbrandon: got you're music stream going?09:21
mr_pouitdoes someone have a good exemple of a package using debconf ? or a link to a good explanation ?09:22
imbrandonLaserJock, no but i can fire it up09:22
imbrandonmr_pouit, xorg ?09:22
mr_pouitimbrandon, ok, thanks, i will look at it09:22
ajmitchimbrandon: people always want the latest & greatest crack, no matter how broken09:22
LaserJockmr_pouit: just a sec, there's a good reference, let me find it09:23
LaserJockmr_pouit: http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html09:24
mr_pouitthanks :)09:24
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LaserJockI somewhat question the helpfulness of a " UDS Mountain View : Call for specs for Feisty" on the forums09:26
imbrandonspecialy when the instructions was to make a forum thread09:26
imbrandonabout it09:26
ajmitchsomehow, I don't think a single sentence is enough for a thread09:27
LaserJockwell, it seems like we have waaay too many specs09:27
LaserJockI think specs have somewhat turned into basically  feature requests09:28
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whiprushLaserJock: indeed.09:28
whiprushPet Bug fixes please09:28
LaserJockI'm worried that we'll have to start weeding them out09:29
LaserJockand then it looks like we're the bad guys09:29
LaserJockwell, mdz anyway ;-)09:29
TheMusoThere were heaps for Paris.09:29
whiprushthere needs to be a "We Know" mechanism someplace.09:29
TheMusoNot all wre looked at afaik.09:30
LaserJocknot close09:30
LaserJockand I think we might have more this time09:30
TheMusoFun fun fun.09:30
TheMusoJust when the spec process was useful for new feature development, it looks like there may have to be tighter restrictions on who can do it next time.09:30
TheMusoIf it needs to be kept under control.09:30
LaserJockif you figure 3 BOFs / spec09:31
TheMusoBut I know thats not always fair for those who have good spec ideas.09:31
LaserJockyou get about 20-30 specs09:31
LaserJockif you do 4 tracks09:32
LaserJockif you're lucky09:32
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whiprushLaserJock: ditto the mailing list.09:33
ograLaserJock, well, spec proposal time is over anyway09:33
LaserJockwe are at 163 accepted specs for Mt. View09:33
LaserJockogra: it's an older thread09:33
LaserJockand I don't know that they care09:34
ogralook only at the ones with mid priority and hgher09:34
LaserJockthe message seems to be "If you write a spec they will have to implement it"09:34
ajmitchLaserJock: 163 seems about average09:34
ograthe low ones will likely fall off the table again09:34
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LaserJockogra: sure, but there are 163 specs proposed09:34
ajmitchogra: considering that just about all of our directory team stuff is undefined, it's not looking so great them09:35
ogras/proposed/accepted/ ;)09:35
ajmitchthough we'll still have to meet & talk09:35
LaserJockogra: yes09:35
LaserJockI'm just saying, I don't think a lot of people have realistic expectations when it comes to a UDS09:35
ograajmitch, by sunday all 163 should have a prio ...09:35
whiprushajmitch: I was going to go a different approach, get sabdfl hammered saturday night, then have him log into launchpad ...09:36
ajmitchwhiprush: you want to try & drink him under the table?09:36
LaserJockwhiprush: he might flip a few too many switches though09:36
LaserJockoh look, feisty has been released09:36
imbrandonyou know the opinoins on the beryl-by-default thread are sane though, i'm suprised, they seem to say the same thing we have been ( make it easy to install but not default )09:37
imbrandonfirst good thread i've seen09:37
ajmitchyeah, I was pleasantly surprised09:38
ajmitchI wondered if I was on the wrong forum09:38
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LaserJockok, so here's the interesting part for me, there are 909 open specs for ubuntu09:41
LaserJockit's kinda insane09:41
bhalewell anyone can write one09:41
bhaleand there are many duplicates09:41
Burgworkand only certain people can make them obsolete09:42
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imbrandonhow many high and medium ones ?09:42
Burgworkthe issue is not people writing them09:42
LaserJockwell, like 2/3 are "Undefined"09:42
Burgworkthe issue is seperation09:42
LaserJockBurgwork: exactly09:43
Burgworkby default, only certain people can assign priority09:43
LaserJockright now I can't even separate my subscribed specs by product even09:43
LaserJockit's rather hard to see what's going on09:43
LaserJockit's like one big blob09:44
imbrandonmake a spec on spec handleing ( scarcasim )09:44
rglcan someone help me with this error http://pastie.caboo.se/20906 ?09:44
rglits outputing some weird locale errors :|09:45
imbrandonexport LC_ALL=C09:45
TheMusoIs lp slow for anybody else?09:46
rglI want to use en_US.UTF-8.  but I don't have that on /usr/share/locale/ :(09:46
imbrandonen_US.UTF-8 isnt a locale its a language09:49
imbrandonit wants the locale set09:49
imbrandone.g export LC_ALL=C09:49
rglhuh?  why do I have all the others LC_XXX en_US.UTF-8 ?09:50
imbrandon        LANGUAGE = (unset),09:50
imbrandon        LC_ALL = (unset),09:50
imbrandon        LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"09:50
imbrandonbrandon@horatio:~$ echo $LANGUAGE09:52
imbrandonbrandon@horatio:~$ echo $LC_ALL09:52
imbrandonbrandon@horatio:~$ echo $LANG09:52
imbrandonrgl, ^^09:52
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rglsorry imbrandon , but I want UTF for everything.09:57
TheMusoWow. A spec has been proposed to consider whether ppc will be dropped.09:58
rglI found how to do it.  I have to generate the locale stuff using locale-gen09:58
bhaleTheMuso: is that so suprising?09:58
imbrandonTheMuso, yea , i dont think it will happen this time though, there are still too many ppc's out there09:59
imbrandonmaybe next time09:59
bhaleit will be planned well in advance09:59
bhalea few releases away09:59
TheMusoSurprising to me at least.09:59
bhaleit has to happen sometime.09:59
TheMusoFair enough.09:59
bhalethe major vendor has exited09:59
imbrandonfor desktops , not servers09:59
bhaleit wasnt there for servers09:59
imbrandonthus we'll probably keep the server version like sparcs10:00
bhaleand we dont support ia64 for example10:00
imbrandonwe dont support sparc either on the desktop but do on the server10:00
bhaleppc isnt going to suddenly disappear as an ubuntu arch10:00
TheMusoI know that.10:00
imbrandonbhale, my point is sparc is still a canonical supported arch on the server iso's and ibm still cranks out lots of ppc servers :)10:01
bhaleok, right on10:01
imbrandonbut not on the desktop10:01
bhalecould be the plan10:01
ChaosFanwg 4310:01
ajmitchimbrandon: and it doesn't mean that we'd drop ppc altogther from support10:01
imbrandonjust not from canonical10:02
finalbetaHow does one propose a package? Is the wiki the "official" way for end users?10:02
imbrandonfinalbeta, if you want someone else to eventualy get to it put it on the wiki page, if you have already made packages use REVU10:03
LaserJockfinalbeta: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates10:03
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LaserJockgeeze, how do you register for an LP account?10:58
LaserJockI can't find a URL10:58
ograhttps://launchpad.net/people ?10:59
ograi think you dont see it if you are logged in10:59
imbrandonlaunchpad.net , top right10:59
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LaserJockoh, must be because I'm logged in10:59
ograah, right, its top right :)11:00
ajmitchleft, right, all so confusing :)11:00
ajmitchlaunchpad is a bit like that :)11:01
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Toadstoolhi everybody11:12
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LaserJockhi Toadstool11:13
Toadstoolhey LaserJock11:13
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lifelessajmitch: jbailey has11:43
ajmitchI figured he would11:43
ajmitchit should be reasonably ok11:43
ajmitchhowever the latest glibc upload isn't built & in the archive yet11:44
ograyeah pitti complained earlier about the buildds11:53
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