[12:15] <Jucato> hm... FSF's gNewSense....
[12:15] <danimo> ok, webcast over
[12:15] <danimo> nothing the see here, move along
[12:15] <Jucato> heheh :)
[12:17] <danimo> the only interesting part for non-SUSE folks is basically the MS patent infrigement coverage for every private OSS developer 
[12:19] <Jucato> ah the Novell/Microsoft partnership?
[12:20] <danimo> yes
[12:20] <danimo> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html
[12:21] <Jucato> just reading the FAQ right now :)
[12:24] <Kryczek> danimo: what do you play the webcast with?
[12:24] <Kryczek> ah, it's over
[12:24] <danimo> Kryczek: mplayer
[12:25] <danimo> Kryczek: alternatively, there was a flash proxy over at the novell site
[12:26] <Kryczek> ok... was just wondering why Kaffeine wouldn't work, but it's probably because the webcast is over :)
[12:27] <danimo> Kryczek: or because you didn't install the w32 codecs
[12:28] <Kryczek> no no, i have them :)
[12:32] <Jucato> hm... first MS opens the CE kernel, now this... hm... conspiracy theorists are going to have a blast :)
[12:33] <nixternal> Ballmer is on CNBC saying "Ahhh-Bun-tooo" like a moron
[12:34] <Jucato> huh? what's Ubuntu gotta do with their new found partner (suckers...)?
[12:35] <nixternal> because we are working together with Oracle, which is who Microsoft has been after this year big time
[12:35] <Jucato> aaaah
[12:35] <nixternal> Microsoft doesn't like the fact Oracle chose Red Hat for a partnership either
[12:36] <Jucato> I thought Unbreakable Linux was supposed to be a competitor of Red Hat... :P
[12:37] <Jucato> nixternal: btw, do you think RMS is gonna speak about gNewSense in his talk there on the 4th?
[12:37] <nixternal> probably not..he never speaks about "distros" usually
[12:38] <nixternal> it will be strictly GNU, and im sure he will diss the OSS community since our philosophy doesn't == his
[12:38] <Jucato> other than Ututo
[12:40] <Jucato> nixternal: um... who's handling the FAQ on the Kubuntu.org site?
[12:41] <nixternal> the community i guess ;)
[12:41] <nixternal> dunno really
[12:42] <Jucato> ah. I was just wondering if we should add an entry about the KubuntuHiddenFiles stuff (and tag it as "Edgy only")
[12:47] <Jucato> oooh raphink in Behind Ubuntu :)
[12:48] <raphink> :)
[12:51] <Kryczek> nixternal: lol @ "Ahhh-Bun-tooo" 
[12:52] <Kryczek> CNBC stopped broadcasting on my cable here :(
[12:52] <Kryczek> a few weeks ago
[12:52] <nixternal> you are lucky
[12:52] <nixternal> CNBC is so full of Microsoft rhetoric anyways...bloomberg is much better
[12:52] <Kryczek> I haven't noticed...
[12:53] <Kryczek> bah, can't stand bloomberg, the colors are so fugly :P
[12:54] <Kryczek> and the image is too small :|
[12:58] <nixternal> i just noticed the gNewSense letter on fsf.org
[12:58] <Jucato> :)
[12:58] <nixternal> they totally diss ubuntu in it "one without non-free kernel binary "blobs" or any other non-free software..."
[12:59] <Jucato> um... will there be any problems coming from the fact that they will not use Launchpad?
[12:59] <nixternal> see..my only issue is this...the internet has to be boring as all hell...gaming must suck
[01:00] <Kryczek> Jucato: why? something about the licence of the Orange Book ?
[01:01] <nixternal> he uses gnome only when he needs to do graphical stuff..otherwise he works all from the command line..i have a hard time believing that
[01:01] <nixternal> there is no way i could be prehistoric like that
[01:01] <Jucato> Kryczek: well most DVD's are encrypted or have restrictions, right? so he doesn't use them. and if someone gives him one, he returns it
[01:01] <Kryczek> maybe he only IRCs :p
[01:02] <Kryczek> irssi in console mode is fine enough
[01:02] <Jucato> using irssi
[01:02] <Jucato> :)
[01:02] <Kryczek> i am not surprised ;)
[01:02] <Kryczek> check mine
[01:02] <Jucato> hm...
[01:03] <Kryczek> Jucato [n=jucato@58.69.26.8]  requested unknown CTCP  from Kryczek:
[01:03] <Kryczek> tehee
[01:03] <Jucato> Kryczek is away: busy
[01:03] <Kryczek> /ctcp Kryczek version
[01:03] <Jucato> ah sorry lol
[01:03] <Jucato> I'm not used to CTCP'ing
[01:03] <Jucato> nice :)
[01:03] <Kryczek> doesnt Konversation have that in a menu? :)
[01:04] <Jucato> I don't know lol
[01:04] <Jucato> ah there is. I didn't check :P
[01:04] <Kryczek> =)
[01:04] <Jucato> I owe irssi a lot. saved my butt a couple of times
[01:04] <Kryczek> how so?
[01:04] <Jucato> remember the broken xorg update in Dapper?
[01:05] <nixternal> [CTCP]  Received CTCP-VERSION reply from nixternal: http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php
[01:05] <nixternal> haha
[01:05] <Kryczek> Jucato: no, I had Breezy at work but I just installed Dapper a few days before 6.10 came out
[01:05] <Jucato> I was able to ask in IRC about the fix thanks to irssi
[01:05] <Kryczek> hehe, nice
[01:06] <Jucato> Kryczek: aah. basically there was a broken update. everyone who updated ended up with no X. so knowledge of irssi was a life-saver
[01:06] <Kryczek> well, from all the IRC clients I've tried, I couldn't find anything easier on the eyes than a translucent Konsole with Irssi in it
[01:07] <Jucato> maybe a translucent XChat? ehehe
[01:07] <Kryczek> I tried that :)
[01:07] <Kryczek> but it doesnt make the widgets translucent
[01:07] <Jucato> heh :)
[01:28] <Jucato> nixternal: I have a question about help.ubuntu.com
[01:28] <nixternal> shoot
[01:29] <Jucato> it now shows Edgy Eft documentation right? but if Dapper is LTS, shouldn't the Dapper docs still be there?
[01:30] <Mez> Jucato, most pages will show info for both (and possibly more)
[01:30] <nixternal> they are still there, look at the 6.06 LTS tab up top
[01:30] <Jucato> ah I see. (didn't see them... guess they were too small for me :P)
[01:31] <Jucato> thanks :)
[01:31] <nixternal> np
[01:31] <nixternal> hehe
[01:56] <Mez> Hmmm...
[01:56] <Mez> what to do with bugs that are caused by using 3rd party software ?
[01:57] <Hobbsee> Mez: is the bug our bug, or of the 3rd party software?  and which 3rd party software?
[01:57] <Hobbsee> hey jjesse 
[01:58] <Mez> bug 69962
[01:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69962 in kubuntu-meta "umnet  dependencies  libavahi-compat-libdnssd1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69962
[01:59] <Mez> Hobbsee, incase you didnt realise - thats the bug ;)
[01:59] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee!
[01:59] <Mez> I mean, we could provide Replaces: Conflicts: etc etc.... but should we?
[02:01] <Hobbsee> hey Jucato 
[02:01] <Mez> Hobbsee, so what's your opinion on that ?
[02:01] <Hobbsee> Mez: no.  tell them about the force overwrite to shut apt up, and tell them not to use unofficial repos like you did
[02:02] <Mez> Hobbsee, or apt-get remove bonjour ? :P
[02:02] <Hobbsee> Mez: well, that too.  if they insist on installing it though...
[02:04] <Jucato> hehe... that's a feature, not a bug :P
[02:04] <Mez> Jucato, I know thats the problem
[02:04] <Jucato> I'm just annoyed that Konqueror's navigation panel doesn't follow it... Storage Media still points to media:/
[02:05] <Hobbsee> Mez: what, i always found that media:/ would just open nothing.
[02:05] <Mez> Hobbsee, one sec
[02:05] <freeflying> hi all
[02:06] <freeflying> Hobbsee: moin
[02:06] <Jucato> Mez: I liked media:/ as an easy way to access mounted/unmounted drives. My problem is that drag-n-drop linking doesn't work with media:/
[02:06] <Hobbsee> hey freeflying 
[02:06] <freeflying> Hobbsee: we have about 5-600 guys together celebrate with mark yestoday
[02:07] <Mez> Jucato/Hobbsee, have a look @ these and you'll see what i mean
[02:07] <Mez> http://tiber.tauware.de/~mez/media.jpg
[02:07] <Mez> http://tiber.tauware.de/~mez/media1.jpg
[02:08] <Mez> the main issue is it doesnt show the volume name of the CD - whch i need a lot
[02:08] <Hobbsee> ah yeah
[02:08] <Hobbsee> you have a floppy drive?
[02:08] <Mez> yes I do
[02:08] <Mez> but only the 1
[02:08] <jjesse> hello Hobbsee
[02:08] <Mez> it lists 2 in /media ;)
[02:09] <Mez> well, ones a symlink I know
[02:09] <Mez> but how confusing would that be for a new user ?
[02:09] <Mez> and "usbdisk"
[02:09] <Jucato> Mez: /boot and / will certainly not show up (it shouldn't, right?)
[02:09] <Mez> not in media, no
[02:10] <Jucato> yes, the "naming" really does need some work... cdrom0 or cdrom1 on the desktop isn't really descriptive :)
[02:10] <Mez> indeed
[02:10] <Mez> what was the reason for not using media:/
[02:10] <jjesse> i like usbdisk :)
[02:11] <Hobbsee> Mez: it nevre worked for msot people :P
[02:11] <Jucato> hm... doesn't work as it should? (even some KDE devs think so)
[02:11] <Jucato> Mez: I'm also guessing that your Music and Scratch partitions aren't mounted in /media ?
[02:12] <Mez> nope
[02:12] <Jucato> that would be the cause of the problem then...
[02:12] <Mez> /music and /scratch/
[02:12] <Jucato> as imbrandon says...
[02:13] <Jucato> but the FHS isn't really clear about where to mount HDD partitions anyway... some people still insist on using /mnt while Ubuntu defaults to /media I think
[02:14] <Mez> surely you can mount arbitrary filesystems wherever you want
[02:14] <Mez> thats the whole point of having such a dir structure
[02:14] <Jucato> I'm not sure what the Linux FHS thinks...
[02:15] <Jucato> that's one advantage of media:/ though. wherever you mount a partition/drive, it will show up
[02:26] <Jucato> night Mez!
[02:26] <Mez> night Jucato 
[02:26] <Jucato> and I hope what you wrote in your blog about Novell doesn't happen :(
[02:26] <Mez> Jucato, feel free to comment ;)
[02:26] <Jucato> heheh :)
[02:27] <Mez> I do want comments to see other peoples opinion - Ive got a nice long one which i've responded to already
[02:28] <Hobbsee> yay, i own two laptops now :)
[02:28] <Jucato> wow
[02:28] <Jucato> lucky gal
[02:28] <Mez> Jucato, wow 2 laptops, or wow comments ?
[02:28] <Jucato> wow 2 laptops
[02:28] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:28] <Jucato> lol sorry :)
[02:31] <nixternal> jjesse: !!!!
[02:31] <nixternal> i have been looking for you ;)
[02:32] <nixternal> Kubuntu Docs for 7.04 - I take it the freeze has occurred w/ trying to create a new spec, but I was thinking we should have spec'd individual docs, plus we should have spec'd doc artwork, to remove the KDE stuff and have a Kubuntu look
[04:29] <Lathiat> hrm a Conflcits: bonjour on libavahi-compat-libdnssd1 might almost be worth it, thats the second person whos reported that
[04:29] <Lathiat> even tho its not an official package, heh
[06:04] <imbrandon> Riddell, ping
[06:05] <Jucato> moin imbrandon! :)
[06:05] <imbrandon> heya Jucato
[06:26] <Jucato> imbrandon: excuse me, do the commercial support options in http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid also cover Kubuntu?
[06:29] <imbrandon> Jucato, yea kubuntu edubuntu xubuntu and ubuntu
[06:29] <imbrandon> the "offical" distros
[06:29] <Jucato> ok thanks. someone was having doubts in #kubuntu :P
[07:34] <nixternal> Jucato: also let them know that it won't be Microsoft providing them support, unlike our other competitors in the NSOSS community
[07:35] <Jucato> NSOSS?
[07:37] <nixternal> No So Open Source Software
[07:37] <Jucato> lol
[07:37] <Jucato> referring to Novell aren't we? :)
[07:38] <nixternal> yes
[07:39] <Jucato> still don't know what to make of that news... no matter what angle I try to look at it... makes me worry a bit...
[07:40] <nixternal> ya...im sure it won't be good/great in the long run...microsoft has never done anything good for any community
[07:40] <Jucato> not even for their own...
[07:40] <Jucato> well at least they revised the whole policy about re-installing Vista
[07:40] <nixternal> they had 10 years to get in this business.and now that they are loosing market share in the enterprise market, and novell is in debt up to their chins..this comes out of the deal
[07:40] <Jucato> I pity SUSE right now...
[07:41] <nixternal> especially after oracle chooses red hat to do its work with..this scared novell even more..and microsoft, who doens't even have a shoelace in the db market wants it
[07:41] <Jucato> I thought Oracle's move hurt RH more than it helped them?
[07:42] <nixternal> hell no..red hat jumped up with that...because it brings internest now from IBM and db2 stuff...because ibm won't go to suse now especially since the microsoft stuff
[07:42] <Jucato> hehe
[07:43] <nixternal> the only way that red hat gets hurt in this deal, is if they don't step up and produce a solid solution all around...red hat is going to be a touch one to get market share from..they have the largest support infrastructure of any IT company
[07:44] <nixternal> on an enterprise level
[07:44] <nixternal> god i love being a business major..because i am going to use todays crap and turn it into my A paper!!!
[07:44] <Jucato> the only reason I had an interest in SUSE was because of their involvement with contributions to KDE development. But now with Novell doing this publicity stunt...
[07:44] <Jucato> hehehe
[07:45] <Jucato> too bad I can rarely (in fact almost never) apply my Philosophy studies in FOSS...
[07:45] <nixternal> ooh..i am taking philosophy next semester..i can't wait
[07:45] <Jucato> hahah! good luck :)
[07:46] <Jucato> it's really nice. exercises your grey matter (or mashes it up). But I've rarely found any use of it outside academics... :(
[07:48] <Jucato> btw, is Ubuntu ok with gNewSense?
[07:50] <yuriy> hmm did i miss something what happened w/ novell
[07:50] <Jucato> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html || http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html
[07:52] <nixternal> i don't see why Ubuntu wouldn't be ok with gNewSense
[07:53] <nixternal> I have actually downloaded it, and run it on my lappy right now..it is Ubuntu, just was some cool graphics really...they removed everything non-free..which when you aren't used to it, it is weird
[07:54] <nixternal> jsgotangco: see what happens when you goto sleep?
[07:55] <Jucato> hi jsgotangco! :)
[07:55] <jsgotangco> huh?
[07:55] <jsgotangco> im burning kubuntu now and install it later
[07:55] <nixternal> microsoft and novell goto bed
[07:55] <nixternal> about time you wisen up there homer ;)
[07:55] <jsgotangco> huh?
[07:55] <Jucato> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html || http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html
[07:56] <jsgotangco> nixternal: dude i originally used KDE  and wrote kubuntu documentation even before you heard of it
[07:56] <jsgotangco> :D
[07:56] <nixternal> i think it was gnome that made you to busy this go around..if you had been using KDE you would have all the time in the world...us KDE people call that free time, you GNOME people call that bug triage
[07:56] <Jucato> lol
[07:56] <jsgotangco> hah
[07:56] <nixternal> well, I tried kubuntu when you wrote that bug documentation, and I went right back to Slackware for the time being ;)
[07:56] <nixternal> i finally got the kubuntu bug i think with flight 2
[07:57] <jsgotangco> bug documentation???
[07:57] <nixternal> i would have stayed with mepis, but their whole "lovers" community was a bit weird for me
[07:57] <jsgotangco> haha
[07:57] <nixternal> i can take the hugs and the circles here in ubuntu, but lovers is a little to up the crazy chain for me
[07:58] <jsgotangco> ive actually tried MS Business Accounting 2007 its pretty neat, we lack that kind of stuff
[07:58] <nixternal> we don't need accounting in Linux...everything is free..you create accounting software to track zeros?
[07:58] <nixternal> hehe
[07:58] <jsgotangco> hah
[07:58] <nixternal> that one was slick, i liked that joke
[07:58] <nixternal> you are right though..
[07:58] <jsgotangco> too bad 90% of the business world doesn't agree with you
[07:59] <nixternal> Peachtree is the best accounting software I have used, Orace T&E is close 2nd
[07:59] <jsgotangco> we use peachtree at work
[07:59] <nixternal> i love peachtree
[07:59] <jsgotangco> its pretty slick
[07:59] <nixternal> i used to do peachtree admin for fun at one point
[07:59] <nixternal> i have more licenses than you can shake a stick at somewhere around here
[08:00] <jsgotangco> oh?
[08:00] <nixternal> i will have to find them and put them on the market
[08:00] <jsgotangco> at work we declare so much licenses we dont have to worry about BSA
[08:00] <nixternal> they are all good, never been used, ready to be activated too
[08:00] <jsgotangco> unfortunately, we're now planning for vista
[08:00] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:01] <nixternal> well, these licenses are enterprise, and just might be the versions that allow goldmine and oracle t&e pipes
[08:01] <nixternal> next month for vista..6 weeks away now
[08:01] <jsgotangco> do you know that the CE kernel is also shared source?
[08:02] <jsgotangco> they'd be better off putting it on a BSD license though
[08:02] <nixternal> they still use CE?
[08:02] <nixternal> or Vista CE?
[08:02] <jsgotangco> PowerPC is based on WinCE
[08:02] <jsgotangco> err
[08:02] <jsgotangco> PocketPC rather
[08:02] <nixternal> well, PocketPC isn't CE anymore I thought
[08:02] <jsgotangco> its pretty useless without the PocketPC UI though
[08:03] <jsgotangco> Casio used to have a product that used WinCE with a different UI
[08:03] <nixternal> hrmm..i swore that was all changed over..but now that i think about it...playstation 2s are ce if im not mistaken
[08:03] <jsgotangco> i dunno
[08:03] <jsgotangco> Dreamcasts are CE to
[08:04] <nixternal> do they make those anymore?
[08:04] <jsgotangco> i used to do a lot of embedded systems back then, the CE toolkit for PocketPC and other CD devices are the same
[08:04] <jsgotangco> you just compile them in a different architecture
[08:04] <jsgotangco> till i discovered the disastrous sharp zaurus
[08:04] <jsgotangco> hehe
[08:04] <nixternal> omg i would love to have a zaurus
[08:05] <jsgotangco> you're 4 years too late hehehe
[08:05] <nixternal> only way to get them here is ebay..and then you are paying an arm and a leg for one
[08:05] <jsgotangco> well yeah the new ones cost a lot
[08:05] <nixternal> the new ones are bad
[08:05] <nixternal> they run Linux (KDE) at that
[08:05] <jsgotangco> but i can tell you the software selection pretty sucks at the moment
[08:05] <jsgotangco> you're better off replacing it
[08:05] <nixternal> and that is pure linux..not embedded w/ familiar correct?
[08:06] <jsgotangco> if you're using the default rom, its embedded linux
[08:06] <jsgotangco> monta vista
[08:06] <jsgotangco> you get busybox etc
[08:06] <nixternal> ahhh
[08:06] <nixternal> i played with the familiar front end and kde this weekend..it was pretty cool
[08:06] <jsgotangco> i dunno what is being used now with openzaurus
[08:06] <nixternal> running kmail, gnupg, konqi
[08:07] <jsgotangco> i can say its much more mature now compared to the time i hacked on it
[08:07] <jsgotangco> we were just talking about kitchensync back then when i quit doing it
[08:07] <nixternal> i need some portables to mess with..i have been trying to hack a clie just to read emails..and it hasn't been fun..it keeps dying in between hacks
[08:08] <jsgotangco> flashing roms...hehehehe its been a while since I did that
[08:08] <jsgotangco> i still get giddy over running LAMP on a zaurus before heh
[08:10] <nixternal> heh
[08:10] <nixternal> that would be a trip to see that
[08:10] <jsgotangco> let me find my geocities account
[08:10] <jsgotangco> im sure i still have it
[08:10] <nixternal> omg
[08:10] <nixternal> i have no clue where all of mine went
[08:11] <jsgotangco> http://www.geocities.com/jsgotangco/
[08:11] <jsgotangco> muahhaha
[08:11] <jsgotangco> 2002!
[08:12] <jsgotangco> http://www.geocities.com/jsgotangco/pics/sc_13.54.33_Mon__5_Aug_2002.png
[08:12] <nixternal> nice
[08:15] <jsgotangco> alright im gonna wipe out the hd of this laptop and install
[08:15] <jsgotangco> brb
[08:15] <Jucato> bye
[08:34] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee!!
[08:34] <Hobbsee> hey Jucato!
[08:38] <nixternal> anyone in here know where the time is set for planetplanet?  we are setting up our planet for the ChiGLUG, and it is stuck in UTC timezone
[08:47] <Jucato> Hobbsee: would you happen to know what Kubuntu's policy is regarding KDE bug fixes that were just recently released?
[08:48] <Jucato> do we wait for KDE 3.5.6, for Feisty, or do they go into -updates or -security?
[08:48] <Hobbsee> Jucato: what were you thinking of?
[08:48] <Hobbsee> updates, if the diff is eyeballable
[08:48] <Hobbsee> SRU procedure, and the like
[08:49] <Jucato> well,some of the bugs I marked, then some bugs that were just fixed lately in the kdepim bug triage
[08:49] <Hobbsee> Jucato: get the patches of all of them, stick them in a debdiff, and then it'll just go thru a SRU like any other
[08:50] <Jucato> ah so it depends if someone does that? then it would probably get into -upgrades? otherwise we wait till the next KDE release?
[08:50] <Hobbsee> pretty much
[08:53] <jsgotangco> nooo i am konquered!
[08:53] <Jucato> O_O
[09:01] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: and you're liking it
[09:04] <jsgotangco> Hobbsee: unfortunately?
[09:06] <jsgotangco> Hobbsee: why do i feel that vista copied crystal
[09:06] <jsgotangco> hehe
[09:13] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: haha
[09:13] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: yeah, well
[09:13] <Hobbsee> hey cool, i got a case for this laptop too :)
[10:00] <Riddell> imbrandon: xubuntu isn't supported by canonical
[10:01] <imbrandon> ahh its not? wow 
[10:01] <imbrandon> but kubuntu is 
[10:02] <Riddell> yes
[10:02] <imbrandon> Riddell, btw http://federation.imbrandon.com/feisty/html/all.html
[10:02] <imbrandon> i need to refine what packages it does checks on
[10:02] <imbrandon> right now its all in section kde
[10:03] <imbrandon> usefull? hehe
[10:05] <Hobbsee> boo!
[10:05] <Riddell> interesting
[10:06] <imbrandon> i'll refine the package list and set a cronjob up so it will stay updated this whole cycle ( likely to change to a better url too )
[10:06] <Jucato> wow! you did all that imbrandon? O_O
[10:06] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's a script
[10:06] <Riddell> :)
[10:06] <imbrandon> Riddell, other than all of section "kde" whats a good way to get the packages we need to keep an eye on
[10:06] <Jucato> but still, he did it :)
[10:06] <imbrandon> Jucato, its a script :)
[10:06] <Riddell> imbrandon: rdepends on qt?
[10:07] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: preferably we use toma and allee  and the like to stick it into debian, and sync most packages across.
[10:07] <imbrandon> Riddell, kk
[10:07] <jsgotangco> Jucato: for all you know its a one liner script
[10:07] <Jucato> hahah :)
[10:08] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea i've been working with konversation , amarok and yakauke maintainers in debian , like our amarok 1.4.4 is already in debian with only very minor changes 
[10:08] <Hobbsee> nice :)
[10:10] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, sick allee on everything in the not-in-debian list except kde-i18n-xx
[10:10] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:12] <Hobbsee> imbrandon!  this isnt fair!  ubiquity is telling me that the hostname can only been 3-18 characters long
[10:12] <imbrandon> heh set it comething short, then just change it the way i told you after its installed
[10:13] <imbrandon> ( and file a biug )
[10:13] <Hobbsee> i likely will
[10:13] <imbrandon> bug*
[10:13] <imbrandon> just rember to change it in /etc/hosts AND /etc/hostname ( else sudo wont work )
[10:13] <Hobbsee> hmm.  do i want the dell restore partition?
[10:14] <imbrandon> no its pretty useless unless you have the default partition table
[10:14] <imbrandon> sides will you be going back to windows ? hehe
[10:14] <Hobbsee> yeah.  games
[10:14] <imbrandon> on both lappys ?
[10:15] <Hobbsee> i'll use the one that doesnt overheat for games :P
[10:16] <imbrandon> anyhow its not really usefull if you dont have the default partition table , you still need to restore from a cd
[10:17] <Hobbsee> ahhh, fiar enough
[10:22] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: should there be a limit on how many partitions i can create?  this seems to be recognised as sda1
[10:23] <imbrandon> only 4 primary partitions but as many extended as you want
[10:23] <imbrandon> ubiguity should take care of all that
[10:23] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: it seems that extended partitions will not let me set a filesystem
[10:24] <imbrandon> sda1 is normal for a sata or scsi drive, if its a laptop i'm guessing is a sata one
[10:24] <imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ mount
[10:24] <imbrandon> /dev/sda3 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro)
[10:25] <imbrandon> sata drive ^^
[10:26] <Hobbsee> right
[10:26] <Hobbsee> hmmm, i killed it
[10:26] <Hobbsee> i can have an extended /, right?
[10:28] <allee> imbrandon: I'm your servant
[10:28] <Tonio_> hi
[10:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have the patch for kwalletmanager
[10:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: want it for an edgy package ?
[10:28] <allee> imbrandon: master, what to you want me to do?
[10:28] <Tonio_> allee: yo
[10:28] <imbrandon> allee, hehe
[10:28] <allee> hi Tonio_ !!!!
[10:28] <imbrandon> heya
[10:28] <imbrandon> allee, lemme refine the list a little bit
[10:28] <imbrandon> allee, will you be in MTV ?
[10:29] <allee> imbrandon: MTV?
[10:29] <imbrandon> mountain view
[10:29] <Tonio_> imbrandon: any iea if kwwii will be there finally ?
[10:29] <Tonio_> I know that sebas will
[10:29] <imbrandon> Tonio_, yes he will be
[10:29] <Tonio_> imbrandon: fantastic ;)
[10:29] <allee> imbrandon: unfortunately not
[10:29] <imbrandon> allee,  ahh ok
[10:30] <imbrandon> i'll try to get the list cleaned up today then
[10:30] <imbrandon> but i have a scrpt that will halp us track changes for our kde packages between sid and feisty
[10:30] <allee> Tonio_: was you alioth account confirmed?
[10:30] <Tonio_> allee: yes
[10:31] <Tonio_> allee: I should have upload rights now, but that'll wait me to be back from mtv
[10:31] <allee> Tonio_: good :)
[10:31] <Tonio_> I'm taking a computer pause at the moment
[10:31] <Tonio_> just between edgy and feisty
[10:32] <imbrandon> allee, for a sample see http://federation.imbrandon.com/feisty/html/all.html
[10:32] <allee> Tonio_: makes lot of sense ;)
[10:32] <imbrandon> ( it will change )
[10:33] <Tonio_> allee: hehe
[10:33] <Tonio_> imbrandon: I lost the package and now I can seem to be able to redo the noaudiocd patch.......
[10:33] <Tonio_> there is something I have problems to remove.
[10:34] <imbrandon> ahh'
[10:35] <allee> imbrandon: hmm, at least some of the pkgs are already in alioths pkg-kde extras (kde-guidance -> guidance/, kat)
[10:35] <allee> imbrandon: ^^ http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/kde-extras/?rev=0&sc=0
[10:36] <Tonio_> cool ;)
[10:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: works nicelly, tell me when you want the patch for an edgy update
[10:36] <imbrandon> that only checks whats avaible in sid
[10:36] <imbrandon> whats in svn dosent help much
[10:38] <Hobbsee> right.  yay for the dapper flight 1 installer, which doesnt seem to die at random :)
[10:38] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: ^
[10:39] <imbrandon> lol
[10:40] <Hobbsee> i think i made qtparted crash :P
[10:43] <imbrandon> allee, if its in kde-extras on anolith why is it not in sid ?
[10:43] <allee> imbrandon: mhh, kde-guidance is in sid experimental.  kat it not. 
[10:44] <imbrandon> ahh expimental not unstable
[10:44] <imbrandon> thats why it says that :)
[10:44] <allee> imbrandon: most pkgs in kde-extras are fabos work.  Looks like he can manage 2 order of magnitude more pkgs than me.
[10:44] <imbrandon> auto syncs from unstable --> feisty
[10:45] <allee> imbrandon: ah, right
[10:45] <imbrandon> yea but why are they in expirmental ?
[10:45] <imbrandon> and not unstable
[10:45] <allee> fabo: ^^ ping?
[10:46] <fabo> allee: pong
[10:47] <allee> fabo: why kde-quidance in experental not unstable
[10:47] <fabo> guidance was put in experimental due to default python in debian was 2.3
[10:48] <allee> imbrandon: maybe it makes sense to extent you script by kde-extras and hangs-in-NEW-queue column ;)
[10:48] <fabo> recently the situation changed and guidance is in NEW atm
[10:48] <imbrandon> allee, possibly i'll look into doing it after mtv
[10:49] <allee> fabo: ah, right say now the upload 26th oktober
[10:49] <imbrandon> but really we should be looking at unstable anyhow as thats where the auto sync and syncs will come from
[10:49] <fabo> -> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html since one week
[10:49] <imbrandon> fabo, rockin
[10:49] <allee> fabo: f imbrandon will generate/update a list of kde pkgs not in sync/existing in debian: http://federation.imbrandon.com/feisty/html/all.html
[10:50] <fabo> unfortunately packages accepted in experimental must go in NEW when they're pushed in unstable
[10:51] <fabo> globaly, i synced all kde-extras packages before edgy release
[10:51] <fabo> now, before etch release i synced them with upstream too (some svn patches)
[10:52] <fabo> for kde extras case, there isn't so many work to do :)
[10:53] <imbrandon> :)
[10:53] <Hobbsee> can i ask an idiot question?
[10:54] <fabo> Hobbsee: you never ask idiot question :p
[10:54] <Hobbsee> fabo: this one is :P
[10:54] <Hobbsee> if, in edgy, we synced from unstable, ie, sid, what are we syncing from for feisty?
[10:56] <fabo> for feisty, we sync packages changed since edgy freeze ?
[10:57] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: sid is a constantly moving target
[10:58] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: right.  when does sid release?  or it doesnt?
[10:58] <ajmitch> it doesn't
[10:58] <ajmitch> etch (testing) will be released as stable
[10:58] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[10:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: how big is the patch?
[11:01] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'm not sure it'll get into -updates unless it's a small patch where we can describe how it fixes the problem
[11:13] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, sid == stays in development
[11:13] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: ahhhh.....
[11:14] <imbrandon> they work a big diffrent in debian, you upload to sid, it sits there for a while and it get migrated to testing, after some time testing becomes stable
[11:14] <imbrandon> they do, all except sid
[11:15] <imbrandon> once what is testing now e.g. etch goes stable then a new code name will become testing , but sid will always be unstable
[11:15] <Jucato> poor sid... :)
[11:15] <imbrandon> and sarge will move to old-stable and woody will fall off the planet
[11:17] <Hobbsee> right
[11:18] <Jucato> oh.. poor woody...
[11:18] <imbrandon> they will have to have a new toy story movie soon :)
[11:18] <Jucato> heheh
[11:18] <Hobbsee> hah.  ubiquity seems to be loving my 1.5 gb of ram
[11:19] <imbrandon> you still installing ? hehe
[11:19] <Hobbsee> yeah
[11:19] <Hobbsee> i had to install dapper first, remember
[11:19] <Hobbsee> just to get the parittions to work the way i wanted
[11:19] <imbrandon> heh i reinstall in  less than ~15 minutes
[11:19] <imbrandon> :)
[11:20] <Hobbsee> so do i, but i dont have to partition then :P
[11:20] <imbrandon> :)
[11:20] <imbrandon> thats normaly including chaging partitions
[11:20] <imbrandon> most of the time thats the only reason i reinstall
[11:26] <Hobbsee> hmm.  i wonder how i share drives
[11:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: the patch is 21k
[11:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: here is the link
[11:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/35
[11:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: most of the changes are in desktop files
[11:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: the code change is very little
[11:29] <Tonio_> but that works
[12:48] <ryanakca> hehehe... I remember woody... first linux distro I ever really used for an extended period of time... or was it potato...
[12:50] <Mez> Riddell, ping
[01:20] <Hobbsee> how can i force kde to use a resolution?
[01:22] <sebas> Hobbsee: displayconfig can do that.
[01:23] <Hobbsee> sebas: it only lets me go up to 1024x768
[01:23] <sebas> Ugh, sounds like a bug.
[01:23] <sebas> What does xrandr report?
[01:24] <sebas> xrandr -1 
[01:24] <sebas> -q
[01:24] <Hobbsee> doesnt mention anything higher than 1024x768
[01:25] <sebas> Then it sounds like a bug that's not in displayconfig. 
[01:25] <Hobbsee> hey wait...
[01:25] <sebas> Tried adding it to xorg.conf?
[01:25] <Hobbsee> hah.  now kdm comes up correctly, but after logging in, it dies
[01:25] <Hobbsee> yeah
[01:26] <sebas> delete displayconfigrc then
[01:26] <sebas> Should be in .kde/share/config
[01:27] <Hobbsee> way cool :)
[01:27] <Hobbsee> thanks
[01:28] <Hobbsee> right, that's one more thing fixed
[01:28] <sebas> Cool
[01:28] <sebas> Maybe I should get hold of everyone's notebook in mtv and try to get displayconfig running on it well.
[01:32] <Hobbsee> there are extra modules needed, that arent installed by default for some reason. grr
[02:15] <Hobbsee> Lure: would it be normal that only *some* of the buttons on hte front of dell laptops (multimedia) are recognised?
[02:16] <Lure> recognized (as in xev returns event) or action working (as in volume up/down works)
[02:16] <Hobbsee> Lure: the latter
[02:17] <Lure> Hobbsee: some were not implemented (suspend/battery), but multimedia should work
[02:17] <Hobbsee> i seem to have go forward a track working, but nto go back a track.  nor play/pause.
[02:18] <Lure> Hobbsee: interesting. which app? amarok?
[02:18] <Lure> Hobbsee: you should submit  bug with xev report
[02:19] <Hobbsee> Lure: yes
[02:19] <Hobbsee> Lure: i cant be screwed to fix anything else tonight - i've just gotten the resolution and my profile copied over
[02:37] <Kryczek> < Tonio_> Riddell: works nicelly, tell me when you want the patch for an edgy update
[02:37] <Kryczek> Tonio_: eh? no Dapper update?
[02:38] <Tonio_> Kryczek: well for 3.5.5 packages ?
[02:38] <Tonio_> probably diserves an update too, that's true
[02:39] <Tonio_> Kryczek: but I generally only think and focus official repos
[02:39] <Tonio_> Riddell's repos are his job, so he can decide what to do ;)
[02:39] <Kryczek> Tonio_: yeah... not sure if it's only 3.5.5, but several ppl with Dapper have the problem, so that would be like giving up on a whole release
[02:39] <Kryczek> plus it's supposed to be LTS ;)
[02:39] <Tonio_> Kryczek: true that
[02:39] <Tonio_> well the patch is done now Riddell's to decide
[02:40] <Tonio_> I have to prepare my clothes.... fly is for tomorrow...
[02:41] <Kryczek> Tonio_: btw, I don't know everything about Kubuntu yet, so: is there a way to easily and reliably upgrade from Dapper to Edgy?
[02:41] <Tonio_> Kryczek: simply upload the package in edgy-updates in the official repos
[02:42] <Tonio_> for dapper that's different since the 3.5.5 repos are not "official" but managed by Riddell
[02:42] <Kryczek> upload?
[02:42] <Tonio_> only canonical repos are to be considered official
[02:42] <Tonio_> Kryczek: send the packages to the repo yes
[02:42] <Kryczek> no I mean
[02:42] <Tonio_> Kryczek: what is strange with the concept of upload ?
[02:43] <Kryczek> I was using Gentoo and keeping it up to date was a pain cause my CPU is quite old (Athlon 850MHz), so I thought Kubuntu was the perfect solution for that... I would always be up to date by just upgrading binaries in a matter of seconds
[02:44] <Kryczek> but are you saying that with my Dapper install I am to be stuck to KDE 3.5.5, Amarok 1.4.3 etc forever?
[02:58] <Tonio_> Kryczek: with official repos yes
[02:58] <Tonio_> Kryczek: dapper is stuck with 3.5.2, not 3.5.5
[02:58] <Tonio_> the repos you added (via kubuntu.org) aren't "official"
[02:58] <Kryczek> I don't understand... why are repositories not compatible?
[02:59] <Kryczek> yeah, sorry, KDE 3.5.2 :)
[02:59] <Tonio_> Kryczek: when an ubuntu branch is released as stable, it is frozen forever
[02:59] <Kryczek> but what's to prevent a Dapper workstation to work with Edgy packages?
[02:59] <Tonio_> sometimes updates are provided, for example in "dapper-backport" repos
[02:59] <Tonio_> but main, universe etc... are frozen
[02:59] <Jucato> Tonio_: Riddell said it's official inasmuch as Kubuntu is concerned, since maintains them :)
[02:59] <Tonio_> Kryczek: for example libraries are not always the same version
[03:00] <Jucato> er.. "since he maintains them"
[03:00] <Tonio_> Jucato: hehe, okay
[03:00] <Tonio_> Jucato: but that's his own repos, none of the kubuntu team can touch them
[03:00] <Tonio_> Jucato: this is why I suggested him the patches directly
[03:00] <Jucato> ah
[03:00] <Tonio_> Kryczek: the reason we are rebuilding the packages a libs
[03:01] <Tonio_> Kryczek: amarok built with edgy libs may not work on dapper since the libs aren't the same version
[03:01] <Tonio_> the point is that the source package is the same, but the binaries packages are different
[03:01] <Tonio_> Kryczek: that's the same reason you cannot use ubuntu repos on debian for example, even if most source packages are the same
[03:02] <Tonio_> they are rebuilt  against the libs on every system/version
[03:02] <Tonio_> and that's the reason why ubuntu focusses on source packages compatibility and not the binaries
[03:02] <Kryczek> < Tonio_> Kryczek: amarok built with edgy libs may not work on dapper since the libs aren't the same version
[03:02] <Kryczek> well upgrading amaroK would upgrade the libs as a dependency, no?
[03:02] <Tonio_> nope
[03:02] <Jucato> that's why they're "unofficial" as far as Ubuntu is concerned
[03:03] <Jucato> Tonio_: but bug fixes go into -updates right?
[03:03] <Tonio_> Kryczek: if amarok (sources) are built with version 1.1 of libtoto
[03:03] <Tonio_> then you want to use the deb on a system where the libtoto version is 1.0
[03:03] <Tonio_> that will not work
[03:04] <Tonio_> because the dependancies will not match
[03:04] <Tonio_> so you have to take the same source package, but build it on a system where libtoto is 1.0
[03:04] <Kryczek> yeah I understand the libs mismatch problem
[03:04] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes fixes go to update
[03:04] <Tonio_> and we're uploading the source package so that it is built on dapper, with the libs of dapper
[03:04] <Kryczek> but why can't the package management system specify dependencies to newer versions of these libs if required by amarok ?
[03:05] <Tonio_> we can't provide binaries for that exact reason
[03:05] <Tonio_> Kryczek: we don't set manually  the libs version in the deb package
[03:05] <Kryczek> so you never upgrade libraries on a release?
[03:05] <Tonio_> that's done via debhelper during the build process
[03:05] <Tonio_> Kryczek: somtimes we do
[03:06] <Tonio_> but when the release is "stable" we generally don't, except security issue
[03:06] <Tonio_> because upgrading a lib means rebuilding most of the packages that depend on that lib
[03:06] <Tonio_> you're right on that point
[03:06] <Kryczek> weird lol
[03:07] <Tonio_> Kryczek: well that's why debian packages are that good quality
[03:07] <Kryczek> for example, I did most of the work on Libnids 1.21, which means I had 1.21 on my system before anybody else, instead of the widespread 1.20
[03:07] <Tonio_> Kryczek: you cannot (or very hardly) do crappy packages
[03:07] <Kryczek> and still all the programs that were installed with 1.20 were still working
[03:09] <Tonio_> Kryczek: yeys but if you build it again with 1.21 headers, the binary package will depend on 1.21, not 1.20
[03:09] <Tonio_> if it is installed that'll still work
[03:09] <Tonio_> but apt-get install yourpackage might fail due to dependancies issues
[03:10] <Tonio_> not on your machine, but on other guys machines, it will
[03:10] <Tonio_> that's why the packages are built in a chroot
[03:11] <Tonio_> to be sure the build environnement is cleaned of  manually installed libs
[03:11] <Kryczek> I see
[03:11] <Tonio_> that might sound complicated, but necessary for clean packages
[03:11] <Kryczek> however, I found a forum entry showing how to "upgrade from dapper to edgy" : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=227052
[03:11] <Tonio_> that's why checkinstall *shouldn't* exist
[03:11] <Tonio_> ;)
[03:11] <Kryczek> in your opinion, is it risky?
[03:12] <Tonio_> Kryczek: can be
[03:12] <Tonio_> lots of people said they had issues
[03:12] <Tonio_> I had when I upgrade to edgy but I did 4 month ago
[03:12] <Tonio_> hehe
[03:12] <Tonio_> the best in my opinion is to reinstall without deleting the /home
[03:13] <Tonio_> the problem is that the changes are wide and lots of people use non official repos
[03:13] <Tonio_> that can cause issues
[03:13] <Tonio_> dependancies etc....
[03:13] <Tonio_> if you use only official repos, you can perform a sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-minimal kubuntu-desktop
[03:13] <Kryczek> so the only "good" way of keeping a Kubuntu machine up to date is by completely reinstalling every time a new release CD comes out?
[03:13] <Tonio_> that should work yes
[03:13] <Kryczek> aww, I thought we were past that :|
[03:14] <Tonio_> Kryczek: if you use external repos, that's better
[03:14] <Kryczek> that's how I used to keep my OpenBSD up to date 6 years ago
[03:14] <Tonio_> if you keep using official repos, no that's not necessary
[03:14] <Tonio_> you can just upgrade with apt
[03:14] <Tonio_> Kryczek: well that just depends the  repos you use
[03:14] <Tonio_> we can't unsure that you will not have deps issues with compiz/xgl repos for example
[03:14] <Jucato> Tonio_: although I still exprienced some upgrade problems when trying to upgrade an absolutely fresh install of Dapper to Edgy
[03:15] <Kryczek> and provided that people upload new packages to these repos, right?
[03:15] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes, that's why I suggested to apt-get install ubuntu-minimal && apt-get install install kubuntu-desktop
[03:15] <Tonio_> Jucato: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade is sometimes not enough
[03:16] <Jucato> yeah I guess we have to iron that out...
[03:16] <Tonio_> Kryczek: yep
[03:16] <Tonio_> the point is I never upgraded without issues
[03:16] <Tonio_> but I have lots of non official packages on my machine, since I prepare and test them
[03:17] <Tonio_> and I never wait for the release to upgrade :)
[03:17] <Tonio_> I was on edgy 4 month ago
[03:17] <Jucato> heheh
[03:17] <Kryczek> heh, and I installed Dapper 4 days before Edgy came out :)
[03:18] <Tonio_> Kryczek: btw if you want a really stable system, stay on dapper
[03:18] <Tonio_> edgy isn't very stable
[03:18] <Kryczek> ok
[03:18] <Tonio_> that's my opinion
[03:18] <Tonio_> edgy is the first shot of the new dev cycle
[03:18] <Kryczek> well KWallet on Edgy isn't very stable either ;p
[03:18] <Kryczek> or was it in KDE 3.5.2 ?
[03:18] <Tonio_> feisty might be stable, but edgy is at the moment somehow experimental
[03:19] <Tonio_> Kryczek: it was in 3.5.2 :)
[03:19] <Tonio_> that's why I don't consider Riddell's repos "official"
[03:19] <Kryczek> hehe, ok :)
[03:19] <Tonio_> but I agree they are since kubuntu.org provides them
[03:19] <Kryczek> well it's not Riddell 's fault either
[03:19] <Kryczek> it's KWallet's maintainer's :|
[03:19] <Tonio_> Kryczek: absolutly not
[03:19] <Kryczek> oh?
[03:20] <Jucato> Tonio_: there's a known bug in KWallet
[03:20] <Tonio_> Kryczek: kwallet maintainer isn't the most serious in the kde crew, I must say
[03:20] <Jucato> KDE 3.5.5
[03:20] <Kryczek> Tonio_: ah, you were saying "absolutely not" @ Riddel
[03:20] <Kryczek> l
[03:20] <Tonio_> Jucato: I know, that's why I provided a patch to revert to 3.5.2
[03:20] <Jucato> ooh
[03:20] <Tonio_> Kryczek: hehe, yes, that's not riddell's fault (how could it be !)
[03:20] <Kryczek> :)
[03:20] <Tonio_> Jucato: not any version of kwalletmanager is bugfree since version 3.5.2
[03:21] <Kryczek> no, thought you were saying it wasn't the maintainer's fault either
[03:21] <Jucato> Tonio_: so KWallet will revert to 3.5.2 while the rest of KDE still is 3.5.5?
[03:21] <Kryczek> Tonio_: is that patch available somewhere already?
[03:21] <Jucato> Kryczek: that's what I (mis)understood too...
[03:21] <Tonio_> Kryczek: did I ? no that's the maintainer's fault
[03:21] <Tonio_> Kryczek: no we have to include that in the packages
[03:21] <Kryczek> ok :)
[03:21] <Kryczek> Tonio_: and mark KWallet as frozen FOREVER ;p
[03:21] <Tonio_> Kryczek: as it concerns package whom Riddell is the maintainer, I won't upload them without his opinion
[03:22] <Tonio_> Kryczek: it is frozen in "main"
[03:22] <Jucato> Tonio_: I'm presuming there'll be lots of bug fixes coming in -updates?
[03:22] <Kryczek> j/k :)
[03:22] <Tonio_> but it can be upgraded via dapper-updates and edgy-updates
[03:22] <Jucato> for Edgy, I mean
[03:22] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes, -updates are to fix bugs
[03:22] <Tonio_> that's the goal of that branch
[03:22] <Jucato> Tonio_: will the recent kdepim fixes be included? they had a triage weekend, right?
[03:23] <Tonio_> can be -backport sometimes too, if the fix is to use the +1 distrib package
[03:23] <Tonio_> Jucato: dunno concerning kdepim (I wasn't there most of the week, since I prepare my flight to mountain view)
[03:24] <seaLne> not that i know of
[03:24] <Jucato> Tonio_: ah I see. someone's been ranting/asking in #kubuntu/#kde about Kubuntu's update system with regards to bug fixes, since those fixes were uploaded to Frugalware already...
[03:25] <allee> KDE stuff for -updates?  IMHO 99% uses kubuntu.org updates ;)
[03:27] <Tonio_> allee: and I don't understand this
[03:27] <Tonio_> they should go to backport or updates in my opinion
[03:28] <Tonio_> updates when it just concerns new patches
[03:28] <Tonio_> and backports when it concerns a new kde out
[03:28] <allee> Tonio_: koffice 1.5.0 is buggy like hell IMHO.  but noone cares and use kubuntu.org instead ;)
[03:28] <Tonio_> I never understood the reason of kubuntu.org repos in fact....
[03:28] <Tonio_> but that's just my opinion
[03:28] <Tonio_> Riddell has probably good reasons to provide them that way
[03:29] <Tonio_> we already have updates and backports, but we don't use them... weird isn't it ?
[03:29] <allee> Tonio_: yes.
[03:29] <Jucato> Tonio_: I asked Riddell about it one time (first time I had any direct communication with him). iirc, he said that it was so that Kubuntu could have more freedom with regards to KDE updates and because he didn't want to mess the stable official repos and that at that time, backports was basically dead
[03:29] <Jucato> hope I didn't misunderstand him...
[03:30] <allee> Tonio_: but kubuntu.org is maybe the only way to get them ready for the day the KDE release is announced
[03:30] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes, backport WAS dead
[03:30] <Tonio_> but not now, they are correctly used
[03:30] <Tonio_> allee: possibly yes, but we should use backports then
[03:30] <Jucato> yep. but by that time, KDE 3.5.4 was already out. Amarok 1.4.2 was put into dapper-backports, iirc, and so was KTorrent and K3b
[03:31] <Tonio_> allee: because upgrading the  distro is more complicated when kubuntu.org repos
[03:31] <Tonio_> people don't know they have to remove them
[03:31] <Jucato> we do?
[03:31] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes
[03:31] <allee> I agree but what will be on backports?  whatever is in kde-stable/ ?
[03:31] <Jucato> oh...
[03:31] <Tonio_> allee: with -updates and -backports, you just have to replace dapper by edgy
[03:31] <Tonio_> but a kubuntu.org repo can't be managed that way
[03:32] <Tonio_> that's why I think we should favor backprots instead of external repos that are now meant to upgradable
[03:32] <Tonio_> t/to/to be
[03:32] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:32] <Tonio_> hey bddebian :)
[03:32] <Jucato> hi bddebian!
[03:32] <bddebian> Hi Tonio_, Jucato
[03:33] <Tonio_> allee: in my opinion, whay should be in backports is what we are shipping in kubnutu.org repos
[03:33] <Jucato> Tonio_: probably that was an unforeseen problem, since the kubuntu.org repos seemed to have only been used in Dapper and late Breezy, iirc
[03:33] <Tonio_> Jucato: Riddell has the responses :)
[03:34] <Jucato> Tonio_: but probably one problem that would arise from putting everything into -backports is that users won't be able to choose between for example KDE 3.5.3 or KDE 3.5.4
[03:35] <allee> Tonio_: yes.  But for testing (if ready for -backports) we need another repo  maybe it would be packages/tmp-kde35X
[03:35] <Jucato> for example, KDE 3.5.4 on Dapper was very buggy. So users could have the choice of staying in 3.5.2 or upgrading to 3.5.3
[03:36] <Tonio_> allee: that's why I have my repo
[03:36] <allee> Jucato: before something goes into -backports it needs careful testing
[03:36] <Tonio_> allee: we should have a  "dev" repo I agree
[03:36] <Tonio_> Jucato: people have the choice not to upgrade -> not activating backports
[03:37] <allee> but this conflicts with the philosophie, pkgs available at KDE anounce time
[03:37] <Tonio_> activating backports/updates means "I am ready to receive the upgrades provided"
[03:37] <Tonio_> allee: yes, that could be 24 hours late ;)
[03:37] <Jucato> Tonio_: can they also disable backports after upgrading to KDE 3.5.3 for example?
[03:37] <Tonio_> is that a big issues ??? not in my opinion
[03:37] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes they can
[03:38] <Jucato> ah
[03:39] <Jucato> honestly, before I got involved with you guys, I presumed that the packages from Kubuntu.org have been tested. and I think that's the assumption of a lot of users, too
[03:40] <allee> Jucato: there are tested, but not like before a release.  Time is just too short
[03:40] <Jucato> I guess it would be ok to have some delay in releasing them
[03:40] <allee> Jucato: AFAIU first they go into packages/kde35x, then testing happens when noting grave shows up kde-stable link is redirected to new repo
[03:43] <allee> Jucato: packages/kde35x need to be added by hand to sources.list, so you better know what you're doing.  Using packages/kde-stable  should give you some safety.
[03:45] <Jucato> probably, but not from the upgrades like Dapper to Edgy, as Tonio_ said. (I didn't know you had to remove the kubuntu.org repo...)
[03:47] <Jucato> although I have it the other way around. I feel much comfortable adding the individual kde35x repos so that I could control which version of KDE I have installed. but that's just me :)
[03:51] <allee> Jucato: Well, for edgy the kubuntu.org repos will not exists (I assume).  Tonio, or were there problem due to pkg versions?
[03:52] <Jucato> allee: well at least for KDE itself. Amarok 1.4.4 is already there
[03:52] <Tonio_> allee: there is no problem, just that if you upgrade to another ubutu version, the kubuntu.org repos are useless
[03:53] <allee> Jucato: nevertheless amarok 1.4.4 should be build in dapper environment.  amarok  1.4.4 in edgy build in edgy env.
[03:53] <Jucato> yep
[03:53] <allee> Jucato: so dapper version should be smaller that edgy version for identical upstream 1.4.4. 
[03:59] <Jucato> um excuse me. is there any news when or if edgy-commercial will become functional?
[04:21] <Lure> Tonio_: hi - all set for MtView?
[04:22] <Jucato> ooh.. when's it going to start??
[04:34] <Tonio_> Lure: yes except I don't find my nintendo DS ;)
[04:34] <Tonio_> 17 hours in the plane....
[04:34] <Tonio_> appart from that, everything is ready, yes
[04:34] <Tonio_> Jucato: it starts on sunday
[04:34] <Lure> Tonio_: 17 hours? it should be around 11...
[04:34] <Lure> Tonio_: when do you arrive?
[04:34] <Jucato> good luck guys! and have fun! :)
[04:36] <Tonio_> Lure: on saturday 16h30 local time
[04:36] <Lure> Tonio_: ok, so I should be there sooner (I arrive 11:00)
[04:36] <Lure> Tonio_: hve morning flight from Orlando (only 6 hours or so ;-))
[04:37] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe
[04:37] <Tonio_> Lure: concerning this
[04:37] <Tonio_> how to go from the airport to the hotel ?
[04:37] <Tonio_> is there a bus ?
[04:38] <Lure> They have mentioned shuttleservice (see e-mail from Canonical) - I will go by rent-a-car (I am traveling with another guy from my company)
[04:38] <Lure> Tonio_: http://www.supershuttle.com/
[04:39] <Lure> Tonio_: just exit from the airport and there are several shuttle services - they cost $40-50 to Sunnyvale (taxi is $100, so if there are others it is better and cheaper option)
[04:39] <Lure> Tonio_: maybe check the arrival times from that spreadsheet
[04:40] <Tonio_> Lure: okay
[04:40] <Lure> Tonio_: disclaimer: prices are from my head from 2000 ;-)
[04:41] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe :)
[04:41] <Tonio_> Lure: I may not be the only one so I'll have to check out
[04:41] <Tonio_> Lure: 100$ by taxi ???
[04:41] <Tonio_> how many kilometers from the airport the hotel is ?
[04:44] <Lure> Tonio_: 30 mi
[04:44] <Lure> Tonio_: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=sfo&daddr=910+E+Fremont+Ave,+sunnyvale,+ca&ie=UTF8&z=11&om=1
[05:04] <Tonio_> Lure: and that is 100$ ? my god !
[05:04] <Tonio_> even more expensive than in paris
[05:05] <Riddell> mm, I should find dollars
[05:09] <Lure> Tonio_: shuttle is even bigger rip-off - you pay $50 and share a shuttle with 3-8 people and they deliver them on nearest-first basis :-(
[05:10] <Lure> Tonio_: prices may have dropped after dot-com baloon - I was there just before the splash ;-)
[05:10] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe :)
[05:11] <Tonio_> I'll have a look at how to proceed toonight
[06:45] <imbrandon> Tonio_, you can take caltrain , that what me and some others that get there about the same time are doing
[06:49] <Riddell> imbrandon: what's that?
[06:51] <imbrandon> SF mass stransit , innner city train
[06:51] <imbrandon> $5 a ride
[06:51] <imbrandon> and runs all over the city , including from the airport to sunnyvale near the hotel
[06:51] <imbrandon> lemme get the url
[06:52] <imbrandon> Riddell, http://www.caltrain.com/caltrain_map.html
[06:52] <imbrandon> brb , time to pop into the shower
[07:34] <Tonio_> imbrandon: thanks, I'm looking at this
[07:36] <Tonio_> imbrandon: even from SF to sunnyvale
[07:50] <nixternal> yo yo homeys and homettes!
[07:51] <Tonio_> imbrandon: seems to be a good plan
[07:51] <Tonio_> imbrandon: do you have informations on how to go from the airport to the train ?
[07:52] <imbrandon> there is a station at the airport
[07:52] <imbrandon> on level 3
[07:53] <jeroenvrp> ok who can I beat
[07:53] <jeroenvrp> slap
[07:54] <jeroenvrp> please make sure that the alsamixer settings have all switches OFF
[07:54] <jeroenvrp> by default
[07:54] <nixternal> you can try me, but more than likely i will just turn and run, grab an exploding laptop battery, and then anhilate you  ;)
[07:55] <jeroenvrp> took me an hour to fix a no sound volume problem - solution: headphone and jack sense switches had be turned off to make it work - this is also default on the lice vd, so I also had no sound of there
[07:55] <jeroenvrp> sorry I had to get it out :-)
[07:56] <zMott> Riddell: have they fix the bugs in sky2 ethernet driver
[07:56] <crimsun> that's not a mixer bug. Tell me your ``lspci -nv''.
[07:56] <crimsun> ^^ jeroenvrp 
[07:56] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: thats a long list
[07:56] <crimsun> yes, pastebin it, please
[07:57] <jeroenvrp> but allthough a sound card doesnt like that, just turn all those options off, so people who need it, can turn it on whenever the wish
[07:57] <jeroenvrp> ok I pastebin it
[07:57] <crimsun> jeroenvrp: that's not the solution, and there's a specific reason I need your lspci -nv.
[07:57] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: wheres the pastebin link in the topic
[07:57] <crimsun> jeroenvrp: I'll also need your ``tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat''
[07:58] <crimsun> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org
[07:58] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: no problem
[07:58] <jeroenvrp> btw. I have 2 pc's with iternal VIA sound cards - they both seem to have this problem
[07:58] <jeroenvrp> uno momento
[07:58] <crimsun> again, it's a codec problem
[07:59] <crimsun> we can work around it in the ac97_codec init
[07:59] <crimsun> it's definitely a bug in the hardware
[08:00] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: I agree, but it should be easier when all thos mostly unused switches were off
[08:00] <crimsun> no, that's not the solution, as I've stated :)
[08:00] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30068/
[08:01] <crimsun> actually if you have lspci -nv and tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat for both machines, that would be great
[08:01] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: ok, that one is the cheaper internal one 
[08:01] <jeroenvrp> now I will do my own PC
[08:02] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30069/
[08:03] <crimsun> ok, hang 10 mins please
[08:03] <jeroenvrp> np
[08:03] <jeroenvrp> thanks for your help anyway
[08:03] <jeroenvrp> allthough all sound is working, I hope someone else will not have this in the future
[08:04] <crimsun> I'm fixing it now in alsa-driver
[08:04] <crimsun> well, hacking around it, at least
[08:04] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: great
[08:04] <jeroenvrp> !
[08:04] <crimsun> which two models are these?
[08:05] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: oh btw: it worked in dapper
[08:05] <jeroenvrp> but I didnt checked those switches
[08:05] <jeroenvrp> in dapper
[08:06] <crimsun> well, one of them already exists in ac97_patch.c
[08:06] <crimsun> 0x104380b0, /* Asus A7V8X-MX */
[08:06] <crimsun> I added that last year
[08:07] <crimsun> I just need to shift these to the correct codec
[08:13] <Tonio_> imbrandon: perfect, thanks for the tip
[08:14] <imbrandon> :)
[08:15] <zMott> Riddell: are you in
[08:19] <crimsun> jeroenvrp: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2006-November/001169.html
[08:20] <nixternal> imbrandon: what is the easiest way to play mp3s from a win box over the net on amarok?
[08:20] <nixternal> the smb stuff doesn't work iirc
[08:21] <imbrandon> daap server ( iTunes ) on the win box OR 
[08:21] <imbrandon> smb ( i've never had probelms as long as the smb is read/write )
[08:21] <nixternal> k..let me check
[08:21] <imbrandon> OR shoutcast from the winbox and listen to the stream
[08:22] <imbrandon> heya el
[08:23] <el> huhu imbrandon 
[08:30] <francesco> hello
[08:31] <Riddell> hi francesco 
[08:44] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: thanks
[08:45] <jeroenvrp> crimsun: can you get my hostname out of the discription?
[08:52] <zMott> would kopete replace konversation ?
[08:57] <apokryphos> why would it?
[08:58] <apokryphos> Kopete's not great for IRC at all
[08:58] <zMott> just asking to see that if we can have one app to do it all.
[08:59] <apokryphos> they've done that in Ubuntu (no xchat, just gaim), but I don't think it was, or is, a good idea
[08:59] <apokryphos> both kopete and gaim aren't great with IRC
[08:59] <zMott> hmm
[08:59] <zMott> i know about gaim, file sharing or downloading does not work.
[09:00] <zMott> having a unified app, for multi-chat protocols is nice...
[09:01] <apokryphos> as long as given protocols aren't neglected, yes
[09:01] <zMott> how true
[09:01] <zMott> well irc aol are most common
[09:01] <zMott> or most used
[09:02] <apokryphos> they are, and Konversation is the superior IRC client, so that should be used by default on Kubuntu (I think)
[09:02] <zMott> it is...
[09:02] <zMott> however, like to keep it simple less is more.
[09:03] <zMott> and if kopete is not going to do irc in full, then that protocol should be removed,
[09:03] <zMott> and we should only use konversation.
[09:03] <ulaas> how can i find who is dealing with kdevelop packages in kubuntu?
[09:03] <apokryphos> not convinced that it should be *removed* since some people still use it
[09:03] <apokryphos> ulaas: check out the package info
[09:04] <zMott> using a app, that is half good as you mention, does not make since
[09:04] <zMott> it should be all good in that area.
[09:04] <apokryphos> that's a suggestion to forward to Kopete developers
[09:05] <zMott> do you have a link or irc channel..pls
[09:05] <apokryphos> but they might not take kindly to you telling them that their app is not good :)
[09:05] <ulaas> so it is jeremy Laine.
[09:05] <zMott> I know.. but someone has to tell you about the pot hole in the road right ?
[09:05] <apokryphos> ulaas: no... http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/k/kdevelop/kdevelop_3.3.4-1ubuntu2/changelog
[09:06] <apokryphos> zMott: some people like Kopete for IRC
[09:06] <apokryphos> there are many IRC clients for KDE, each which may well serve different needs
[09:06] <apokryphos> ksirc, kvirc, to name two others
[09:07] <zMott> needs, are based on the fact, if the app, can do it all
[09:07] <zMott> aka: novice setting, to advance settings..
[09:07] <zMott> not just throw a little menu item and call a gui
[09:07] <apokryphos> no app has it all
[09:08] <zMott> xchat
[09:08] <zMott> mIRC
[09:08] <zMott> bitch-X
[09:08] <apokryphos> xchat doesn't have kvirc integration, neither does mirc :P
[09:08] <apokryphos> *KDE integration
[09:08] <zMott> was talking about kvirc
[09:08] <zMott> talking about irc
[09:08] <apokryphos> I am too, I meant to say kde
[09:08] <zMott> however, yes, they can't do multi-protocols
[09:09] <zMott> that why its needed.
[09:09] <zMott> one app, 
[09:09] <zMott> not two
[09:09] <apokryphos> one app for things isn't always better either
[09:10] <apokryphos> take for example KDE moving away from browser+file-manager Konqueror in KDE 4
[09:10] <apokryphos> anyhow, I must shoot off now, see you
[09:10] <zMott> oh, kde 4
[09:10] <zMott> heard that is going to be a killer
[09:11] <zMott> later
[09:12] <Riddell> I expect konqueror to remain much the same in KDE 4
[09:13] <zMott> Riddell: so it not going to change they way konqueror works.
[09:16] <zMott> tks
[09:16] <zMott> later
[10:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: had a look at the kwallet patch ?
[10:32] <Tonio_> I tested it here and I can confirm it resolves the issue
[10:35] <Riddell> Tonio_: nope, URL?
[10:37] <fdoving> Riddell: For kde4libs i had to change the kdelibs5-dev Depends on libqt4-debug-dev-kdecopy to libqt4-dev to make kdepimlibs build. as kdepimlibs has builddepends on kdelibs5-dev AND libqt4-dev. libqt4-dev conflicts with -kdecopy.
[10:37] <fdoving> And the two rm lines in the rules file for kde4base makes problems here.
[10:37] <fdoving> had to remove them too.
[10:39] <Kryczek> Tonio_: can I have a look at the patch too? out of curiosity
[10:40] <Kryczek> (of how can somebody screw up password management :)
[10:41] <Tonio_> Kryczek: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/35
[10:47] <Kryczek> Tonio_: heh, really looks like we're putting his work to the trash :)
[10:52] <Riddell> fdoving: yes that's right, sorry I just didn't rebuild the source after changing those two
[10:52] <ryanakca> hmm... what can I do to help now that edgy is out? (I can't really code, and I'm not the greatest at artwork, even though I don't mind it (I think it's a bit early for that anywais), and I dislike bug triaging)... 
[10:53] <Kryczek> hmmm
[10:53] <Riddell> Tonio_: that won't get into -updates, it's too large to be understood
[10:53] <Kryczek> ryanakca: create new themes for usplash :p
[10:53] <ryanakca> Kryczek: how?
[10:53] <Riddell> ryanakca: once feisty is open for general use you can do merges and syncs with debian
[10:54] <ryanakca> what color?
[10:54] <Kryczek> ryanakca: well, from what I read
[10:54] <jdong> a pbuilder question....
[10:54] <n8k99> i know it'ss possible my computer is hosed but Powermanager keeps cycling between battery inserted and battery removed
[10:54] <ryanakca> Riddell: kk
[10:54] <Kryczek> right now it's only possible to change the colors
[10:54] <jdong> is there any workaround for the "Session management error: Could not open network socket" errors during pbuilder builds?
[10:54] <jdong> it doesn't break anything, but does significantly slow down a build
[10:54] <Kryczek> ryanakca: but personally I'd like to be able to have cool splash images at boot such as the ones of gensplash
[10:54] <Kryczek> not just change the fg/bg colors of the default ubuntu splash :|
[10:55] <Kryczek> ryanakca: but it's only an idea, I suppose there are other more important things that you could do :)
[10:55] <ryanakca> Kryczek: is that idea on +specs somewheres?
[10:56] <ryanakca> Kryczek: yeah, playing armagetron advanced is getting kindof dull :)
[10:57] <ryanakca> meh, Riddell, lemme know when feisty is open :) 
[10:59] <Riddell> ryanakca: I'm sure the community will be buzzing when it does
[10:59] <Riddell> ooh, bling new wiki.kubuntu.org
[11:00] <fdoving> nice.
[11:22] <ryanakca> sweet... wiki looks much better now... 'grats kwwii and whoever else fixed it up :)
[11:38] <seaLne> i like the header, not entirely sure about the buttons yet :)
[11:38] <seaLne> tabs rather