=== jdub [n=jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lmanul [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === crimeboy [n=crimeboy@20150119142.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/x-e097a7f1d82d66bd] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === madduck [n=madduck@seamus.madduck.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === madduck [n=madduck@debian/developer/madduck] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AlinuxOS [n=AlinuxOS@d81-211-222-42.cust.tele2.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:31] OT: http://xkcd.com/ <-- pretty good ubuntu joke === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-23-121.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mayday_jay [n=maydayja@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-206-191-56-75.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gasbag [n=gasbag@68-189-241-88.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@raphink.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anibal_ [i=anibal@ns1.mssinc.biz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TomB| [n=ownthebo@host217-44-6-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === alex-weej [n=alex@halls-129-31-82-59.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [n=shackan@85-18-136-77.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:23] Anyone feel like writing a self-hosting toolchain that builds in a tenth of the time that glibc/gcc does? kthx. [01:23] <_ion> Ok, will do. [01:23] sure...ill get right on it [01:23] Excellent. Champions, the lot of you. [01:23] I look forward to your work. [01:24] lol === infinity goes back to hating life and babysitting the bootstrap. [01:25] infinity, I would do, but i've got work [01:25] out of interest why exactly is this bootstrap needed? [01:25] why can't new versions of gcc etc just filter in from debian like everything else? === gasbag [n=gasbag@68-189-241-88.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:26] We use far more cutting edge versoins of glibc than Debian does. [01:26] And we need to boostrap the toolchain to make sure it all gets along Just So. [01:26] infinity: s/cutting/slicing and dicing/ [01:27] Add to that the ABI breakage that we just landed in GCC (go us), and we have all sorts of fun. [01:27] what did we do ? [01:27] ABI breakage is only ppc/sparc? [01:27] ajmitch: Yeah. [01:27] lifeless: Backported the ldbl-128 changes from 4.2 (better to eat the breakage now than later) [01:28] Here's hoping I get it all done before I need to be on a plane in 24 hours. === infinity envisions finishing up from a shoddy wireless connection in NZ... [01:29] shoddy & expensive [01:29] ajmitch: What's connectivity like at the Auckland airport? [01:29] how long do you have to wait in auckland? [01:29] Ahh. Expensive. Awesome. [01:29] probably poor, I haven't tried recently [01:29] I have a couple/few hours, nothing drastic. === ajmitch has about 1 hour, including customs & related tasks [01:30] Customs? [01:30] From NZ to NZ, they don't generally care about what you're importing. :) [01:30] any particular reason for using such cutting edge versions? does it improve performance or something? [01:31] plugwash: Gives us some shiny features, and it can be handy to track upstream more closely. [01:31] well I'm coming from a domestic flight [01:31] there's some minimal checking on the way out, iirc [01:31] plugwash: It also gives us warm fuzzy feelings to be able to mention it to our users (who, for the most part, don't care, but think they should) [01:31] 1 hour should be plenty [01:32] ajmitch: domestic->international in nz will mean no checking on the way into aukland, but regular emmigration on the way to the international flight === mayday_jay [n=maydayja@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:32] yeah, that's what I expect [01:32] I wonder if I'm in Auckland long enough to clear security and come back... [01:33] Not that there's any valid reason to do so, but then I'd have an NZ stamp in my passport. :) [01:33] infinity: You've been in .au how long and you don't have an NZ stamp? [01:33] Hell, *I've* got one [01:33] mjg59: Three years. I know, it's sad. [01:33] Zofia and I kept meaning to vacation in .nz, but never got around to it. === bronson [n=bronson@adsl-64-161-106-11.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:35] It's a nice place [01:35] So I've heard. [01:35] Lovely scenery and friendly poeple with funny accents. [01:35] Sounds good. === jinty [n=jinty@137.Red-83-50-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8D2D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@61.49.220.78] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgwork [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8D2D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez -> bed === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-130-207.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === RadiantFire [n=ryan@unaffiliated/radiantfire] has joined #ubuntu-devel === auxesis [n=lindsay@quasimodo.unstated.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === RadiantFire [n=ryan@unaffiliated/radiantfire] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-130-207.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tonyyserver [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dous [i=dous@ubuntu/member/dous] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dabaR [n=dabaR@wnpgmb02dc1-183-45.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:33] Why does the gnome panel not ask me for my password when I run an administrative applet from the panel in edgy? === johanbr [n=j@d154-20-238-192.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:34] Do you think it is a bug? [03:34] A security bug! === grndslm [n=grndslm@host-64-139-242-210.nctv.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:35] Anyhow, I thought you guys might want to be the first ones to know about it... [03:35] soo...lvm is included in dapper, but not in edgy? [03:35] its in edgy [03:35] umm....not mine [03:35] i tried pvscan, and no go [03:36] dabaR: The first one you opened probably triggered gksudo, and then your credentials were cached for a while. [03:36] what do you mean [03:36] infinity: nope... [03:36] grndslm: restart lvm [03:36] (I'm typing from a machine using lvm/evms) [03:36] /etc/init.d/lvm restart [03:36] I just opened the panel. And there is another person on #ubuntu talking about the same thing, I thought it was cause I use openbox. [03:36] i had to install lvm2!! ...and still can't use pvscan, but maybe the restart will work [03:36] brb [03:37] Isn't lvm2 depended on by some low-lying metapackage!? [03:37] actually, I blamed it on being high last night, but I remembered it cause this guy in #ubuntu is asking about it. [03:37] dabaR: Well, it's pretty much impossible for it to be running as root without some sort of su/sudo. So it's either running as you (and effectively useless), or you have cached credentials. [03:37] ok...did need a restart...but i thought it shoulda been installed by default [03:37] grndslm: We don't install it by default anymore, no. [03:37] Fujitsu: the lvm core is, but not the lvm userspace [03:37] infinity: look, I use Ubuntu since warty... [03:37] ok...just checkin, thanks [03:37] grndslm: The general theory being that most people don't want or need LVM, and it just serves to confuse. [03:37] infinity: it's not a joke... [03:38] makes sense to me [03:38] infinity: is the lvm2 userspace needed for lvm booting to work ? [03:38] lifeless: Aha. [03:38] lifeless: Yes, it's where the initramfs hooks come from. === lifeless reinstalls that [03:38] I think. [03:38] so that his next reboot will work === infinity checks. [03:39] infinity: I just added a user to make sure. [03:39] (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ dpkg -S /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/lvm [03:39] lvm-common: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/lvm [03:39] However, that hook script won't do much of anything useful without lvm2 installed as well. [03:39] infinity: and succesfully logged in as him [03:39] righto [03:40] so, I trusted that it would just work, given that the lvm2 packages were auto-removed during upgrade. [03:40] lifeless: If you have a working initramfs, you don't need the userspace tools, of course, but the very next time your initramfs is generated without the userspace installed, you lose. :) [03:40] boy am I glad I haven't rebooted recently [03:41] You might want to "update-initramfs -u" after reinstalling lvm2, if you're paranoid. :) [03:41] So you guys are sure it was not a change in pam settings or something like that? [03:41] Or sudoers, or something... [03:42] infinity: doing so ;) [03:43] Im in #ubuntu often... === dabaR [n=dabaR@wnpgmb02dc1-183-45.dynamic.mts.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [03:43] however, as its a xen box, its more a case of 'sudo mkinitramfs -o /boot/xen0-linux-2.6.17-6-generic-xen0.initrd.img 2.6.17-6-generic-xen0' [03:43] lifeless: Hrm. lvm2 being auto-removed due to the minimal->lvm2 dependency causing it to be "auto-installed" is a bit problematic, isn't it? [03:43] lifeless: You're the first person who's mentioned that... [03:43] infinity: I would have thought so [03:43] but like I say, I trust you guys not to hose my system :) [03:44] I don't. :P [03:44] Another way to hose your system is to create an LVM snapshot immediately after installing. [03:45] It sort of explodes, but then works after a reboot or two. [03:45] I found one interesting thing === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:47] which is that theres some geometry/translation thing [03:48] makes my pv[2] fail until I go into evms and out again [03:48] very bizarre [03:48] infinity: I'm guessing the devmapper uninstall is also problematic ? [03:49] infinity: sorry, dmsetup [03:50] Don't know if anything you use would use dmsetup, but if so, "yes"? [03:50] well, evms uses devmapper, dunno if it needs the dmsetup tools or not. [03:51] I see no calls to dmsetup in the evms initramfs scripts. [03:52] easiest way is for me to do up a xen guest with evms, uninstall that shit and see what happens [04:02] Was this box a dapper->edgy upgrade, or an edgy->edgy upgrade? [04:03] Cause I didn't think we marked auto-installed packages in dapper (so the lvm2 autoremoval shouldn't happen in that case), now that I think about it. [04:07] dapper->edgy [04:07] its my home stable server [04:08] Hrm. [04:08] Fun. [04:08] it started life a long long long time ago [04:08] uh...anybody here got a treo 650 that they sync with ubuntu? === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.14.164.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:00] soo...nobody here owns a palm treo, eh? [05:00] i find that hard to believe [05:01] grndslm: support in #ubuntu please [05:01] nobody there can support me [05:02] i've tried to sync my 650 with ubuntu for the past 3 releases and it never works, no matter how many howtos i read === grndslm [n=grndslm@host-64-139-242-210.nctv.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === grndslm [n=grndslm@host-64-139-242-210.nctv.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mnepton [n=mneptok@montreal.canonical.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === `anthony [n=anthony@ekorp-218-185-9-170.eoff.ekorp.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:43] why would i get a fsck.ext3 error at boot that says "unable to resolve UUID: 23fe9a9b02d-239....yada yada"? even tho it says it's clean?? === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:52] ok....found why the fsck.ext3 error about UUID stops my boot process....but could you guys explain why the UUIDs are in my fstab to begin with? === basanta [n=basanta@202.79.37.177] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:55] grndslm: Because Ubuntu uses UUIDs for all filesystems it can in Edgy. === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.14.164.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:57] Fujitsu: so...UUIDs should be in fstab? [05:57] Correct. [05:57] hmm....interesting...well, i swapped out my second hard drive, so that's why i'm getting the error [05:57] and i think i'm just gonna do a fresh re-install [05:58] but while i'm gone...think about this: to rephrase my suggestion from last night regarding moving the volume applet to the top-right corner....it would be the BETTER TRADEOFF, no? if you don't agree, i don't think that you're practically thinking about the average desktop user and their usage of their desktop! :D [05:59] i feel like i'm gonna have to nag on that one issue 'til i'm dead... [05:59] i'm out === bronson [n=bronson@c-71-198-75-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D8540.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hangfire [n=hangfire@201.139.155.132.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stu1 [n=stub@ppp-58.8.14.254.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Linux] [06:43] mpt: Are you able to push your glade changes for AboutWindow? Also, I'm unsure if I should just edit the spec's wiki page, since I've fixed the window closing bug, drag-n-drop now works, and Hardware Details now runs hal-device-manager. Does this make me a contributor? :-) === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B1553.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:59] good morning [07:08] StevenK, awesome [07:08] StevenK, I still get "Not a branch" from your branch [07:09] Um. Wierd. [07:10] Who's the bazaar.l.n person we can throw this too? :-) [07:10] ddaa [07:14] who should be around in five hours or so [07:15] mpt: Hrm. It just worked for me on my Edgy box here. [07:15] bzr pull http://..../~stevenk/about-window/dev gives 3 revision(s) pulled [07:15] Can you do "bzr log sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stevenk/about-window/dev/" ? === bronson [n=bronson@adsl-64-161-106-11.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:16] oh, http works [07:16] Neat. [07:17] mpt: Rev 4 has been pushed, but hasn't hit http:// yet. [07:17] hmm [07:17] I think drag-and-drop should work without allowing selection [07:17] on the grounds that you never (or hardly ever) just want *part* of the version number [07:17] What do you think? [07:18] Sounds reasonable, but how does one implement that? :-) [07:18] No idea :-) [07:18] mpt: And should I just bend the wiki page to my will and remove some the bugs listed? [07:18] sure [07:19] Kay. I'll do that when I get home in about an hour. [07:19] thank you [07:20] Drag-n-drop without selecting text .... that's a nice tricky problem. [07:21] we're past 70000 bugs! [07:21] woah! === dholbach_ [n=daniel@i577B1AF6.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tarzeau [n=tarzeau@80-219-77-183.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:31] who knows about the cd mastering (glass) and production of ubuntu? === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm238.omega16.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:37] is jdizzle the planet hacker around at all? that is jdub ;) === raphink [n=raphink@82.234.166.84] has joined #ubuntu-devel === predius_ [n=predius@201.230.91.26] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:49] StevenK, pushed the glade changes [07:50] tarzeau, nobody in this channel I think === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:51] tarzeau, actually, marilize might know :-) === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:01] Good morning [08:01] heya pitti [08:02] morning pitti === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-130-207.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti is confused about seeing syncs to edgy -- how on earth is that allowed? [08:08] hm? === jack_wyt [n=jack@61.49.220.78] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:08] on -changes [08:08] which bugs? [08:08] ooh, they are from October 23 [08:08] old mail, perhaps [08:09] why did I get them just now? [08:09] I got some mail come through, I assumed it was my ISP being annoying === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lorenzod [n=lorenzod@80.87.77.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === glatzor [n=sebi@p54967718.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-14-229.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === G0SUB [i=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lorenzod [n=lorenzod@80.87.77.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel === crispin [n=crispin@grotto.flowerday.cx] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mayday_jay [n=maydayja@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:06] marilize: ping [09:06] mpt: thank yyou === carlos [n=carlos@101.Red-88-17-196.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === DeadlyTiga [n=andi@p549B14DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:11] hi tarzeau [09:11] hi marilize! [09:11] jdub! hellooo === TerminX [n=terminx@adsl-68-122-2-59.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === geser [n=michael@dialin107156.justdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:22] Is there any way to build a package from CVS directories? [09:22] Seems to work fine except that the CVS dirs end up in the source package. [09:23] Then lintian complains... [09:23] Is there any way to keep my files in CVS and yet ensure that the CVS dirs don't end up in the source package? [09:24] bronson: use dpkg-buildpackage's -i switch [09:24] bronson: (or debuild -i, whichever you use) === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:25] pitti: that makes sense. Thanks! [09:25] /aaway [09:25] Heh [09:25] ouch [09:26] speling iz hadr === Czubek [n=Damian@82.160.179.10] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:37] hi lloydinho [09:38] hi pitti! [09:38] Getting ready to go to west? === hunger [n=tobias@pd95b0676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:39] lloydinho: yeah, looking forward to it [09:39] marilize: do you know anything about cd glass mastering and production? real life example, w/ ubuntu? [09:39] marilize: like prices, business contact? [09:39] country, shipping etc [09:40] i have made GNUSTEPU that i'd like to press, version 1.0 [09:40] pitti: I'm coming too, y'know.. so I'll see you on Sunday evening.. :-) [09:40] oh, nice! === Zdra [n=zdra@96.204-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@88-107-9-114.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:56] lloydinho: travels to .dk was fine? [09:56] tfheen: Yes, thank you. Only slight delight due to the ice on the ground. [09:57] s/delight/delay [09:57] weird typo.. === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@61.49.220.78] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:02] ooh, new libc is in the archive [10:02] infinity: ^ does that mean the bootstrap is complete or is there still something missing? [10:02] I'm dangerously close to unfreezing feisty. === pitti holds his breath [10:02] pitti: ldbl128 rebuilds happening now, THEN I thaw it. [10:03] Hoping to finish up before I have to catch my flight in the morning. :) [10:03] (should make it) [10:03] infinity: sounds like 'long double 128' -> is that a particular lib or so? [10:04] Slight gcc ABI change on powerpc and sparc, doing mass rebuilds of everything affected. [10:04] which gcc version will feisty be build with? [10:04] Or, rather, everything *possibly* affected, since measuring actual breakage looked a lot like effort. [10:05] hunger: 4.1... Ish. === malcc [n=malcolm@host86-135-237-55.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@vbo91-1-82-238-217-179.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:05] infinity: So same as edgy? [10:05] Note the "ish". [10:06] But, other than the above-mentioned ABI break, it's pretty much the same as edgy, yes. [10:06] Shiny new binutils and glibc, though. [10:06] infinity: ish is something like post-but-pre-the-next-version? [10:06] infinity: with all those linker speedups? [10:07] infinity plans on freezing feisty until feisty+1 opens, less buildd work :) [10:07] Not sure about "all", but there should be some bling in glibc 2.5, yes. [10:07] nice:-) [10:07] Burgundavia: haha [10:07] Burgundavia: More work when it's frozen, trust me. [10:07] Burgundavia: My job is 10-fold worse when the archive is frozen. === hunger wonders how long he can stop himself from upgrading his laptop to feisty. [10:08] hunger: the urge is getting stronger [10:09] Burgundavia: it definitly is. [10:09] hunger: not long. i'm thinking of adding a feisty partition tonight === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:09] It's nothing but a new toolchain so far. [10:09] maybe I should install xen and have a virtual feisty box instead. [10:09] Well, and a kernel, if you're painfully brave/stupid. [10:10] 2.6.19 runs happily on my iBook [10:10] I installed it to play with the new 'support pipes in core_pattern' stuff [10:10] infinity: Yes, I am painfully stupid when it comes to updating my linux distri:-( [10:10] pitti: freezes on mind once in a while === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/x-1a8a911b3c941074] has joined #ubuntu-devel === surak [n=surak@158.109.65.41] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti hugs fabbione for his mail about the IFA_RTA stuff and fixes the ipsec-tools FTBFS === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jvw [i=jeroen@220pc220.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === whadar [n=hadar@bzq-82-81-113-53.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lool [i=lool@pig.zood.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:33] is it possible for casper to persist over an NFS mount? i want home persistence over the network... i know this might be problematic cause nfs rw on unionfs doesnt play well === BlackSkad [n=Thomas@d54C4A53D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rodarvus_ [n=rodarvus@201.86.7.124.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Huahua [n=hua_@122.0.228.19] has joined #ubuntu-devel === herzi [n=herzi@kiwi.mediascape.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@137.Red-83-50-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm238.omega16.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo [n=egon@p54A66D4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel === elkbuntu [n=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm238.omega16.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [n=jonathan@ubuntu/member/highvoltage] has joined #ubuntu-devel === `anthony [n=anthony@220-253-48-221.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jonh_wendell [n=wendell@200165129158.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === heno [n=henrik@host-81-191-165-41.bluecom.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo_ [n=egon@p54A671EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [n=fabbione@vpn-nat.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@220.247.249.174] has joined #ubuntu-devel === twilight [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has joined #ubuntu-devel === geser [n=michael@dialin111217.justdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanAKF === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === apokryphos [n=apokryph@87-194-86-227.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheK [n=KaiL@p548F5C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cbx33 [n=c2df514b@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:28] If I wanted to identify a file, as to whether it was audio/document/movie/image is file the best way to go about it....I don;t want to rely on file extensions [12:28] mdz / cjwatson ping === cjwatson [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === surak [n=surak@158.109.65.41] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === eXistenZ [n=amerdakk@bzq-82-81-162-94.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === skyblue [n=skyblue@81.214.124.250] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jordi [n=jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin [n=ipp@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fsmw [n=Fernando@200.72.33.77] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kagou [n=kagou@84.7.193.233] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel === KaiL [n=KaiL@p548F5C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin_ [n=ipp@124.217.8.176] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mirak [n=mirak@ip-41.net-81-220-108.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:05] hi [01:06] morning all [01:06] fglrx-kernel-source seems broken, or the name doesn't match the name that module assistant knows === irvin [n=ipp@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kagou [n=kagou@84.7.193.233] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:12] how can i use evolution-dbg package ? Because i have some crash with evolution and i know that evolution-dbg is better to report crash logs === TomB| [n=ownthebo@host217-44-6-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:19] I filled a bug report === Lure [n=lure@71.16.75.178] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-8-231.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ubuntu_demon [n=depjayds@84-104-162-24.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ubuntu_demon [n=depjayds@84-104-162-24.cable.quicknet.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yagisan [n=Yagisan@doomsday/developer/Yagisan] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === whadar [n=hadar@bzq-82-81-113-53.red.bezeqint.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pirast [n=martin@p508B1F9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Spads [n=spacehob@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdub [n=jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [n=shackan@85-18-136-77.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jonh_wendell_ [n=wendell@200165128047.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === CheekyBoinc [n=fox@p50922779.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raraavis [n=emurphy@194.18.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@180.248-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === maswan [i=maswan@kennedy.acc.umu.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === geser [n=michael@dialin109077.justdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@61.49.220.78] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin_ [n=ipp@124.217.7.68] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [n=bdefrees@mail.ottens.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin [n=ipp@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tkamppeter [i=till@nat/mandriva/x-21bd77447ea472a2] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:32] Howdy [03:33] pitti: do you confirm lang pack updates for edgy-updates? [03:33] jonh_wendell: I prepare them and ask for testing, yes [03:34] pitti: when (do you think) will they available to people? [03:35] jonh_wendell: you can use the dailies for testing (feedback appreciated) [03:35] jonh_wendell: we just released edgy, so I won't update them again now [03:36] pitti: yes, i know that. i'm asking because last time we chatted you talked something about 1 month after edgy release. is it correct? [03:37] jonh_wendell: yes, start of December, when we'll also update the dapper packs [03:38] pitti: can you put here the line for edgy's sources.list? [03:38] deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/edgy-updates/ ./ === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:39] pitti: thanks! === carlos [n=carlos@101.Red-88-17-196.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:43] does "Breaks" work? === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B1AF6.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:44] The kernel for feisty "breaks" the edgy wireless-tools package, and I don't want to add a conflict to the old version if Breaks will work === CarlF1 [n=carl@c-24-13-53-221.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:48] BenC: how do you feel about adding Depends: udev, initramfs-tools, etc. to the kernel? [03:49] Keybuk: I don't feel bad about it at all :) === zMott [n=na@dt041n3f.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:57] Keybuk: Anything besides initramfs-tools and udev that are actual depends? [03:57] upstart? [03:58] where would I report a major bug in ubuntu networking? [03:58] Linux does kinda depend on /sbin/init === gasbag [n=gasbag@68-189-241-88.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:59] Keybuk: upstart isn't essentil? [03:59] zMott: launchpad.net [04:00] what area [04:00] this is not crashing the system [04:00] but its stalling out the network [04:01] Keybuk: upstart is Priority: required...do I really need to depend on it? [04:01] BenC: APT doesn't pay attention to priorities, no? [04:01] it's not like dselect, which actually installs everything <= standard unless you explicitly tell it not to [04:02] I'm just trying to think of a case where we may not want to depend on upstart [04:02] people who don't like upstart? [04:03] (then again, those people probably use custom kernels) [04:03] Keybuk: BTW, upstart is ignoring this line in my /etc/inittab [04:03] X:23:respawn:/bin/su root /usr/bin/startx [04:03] Keybuk: initctl list doesn't even show it [04:04] upstart doesn't parse /etc/inittab [04:04] it's a mame machine where I start the UI via inittab [04:04] Keybuk: Isn't that part of compatibility? [04:04] cat > /etc/event.d/startx << EOF [04:04] start on runlevel-2 [04:04] start on runlevel-3 [04:04] stop on runlevel-4 [04:04] stop on runlevel-5 [04:04] stop on shutdown [04:04] respawn /bin/su root /usr/bin/startx [04:04] EOF [04:04] no [04:05] upstart is not backwards compatible with sysvinit [04:05] it was never intended to be [04:05] iwj: can you take a look at bug 68663? [04:05] Malone bug 68663 in firefox "[Edgy] Incompatible with Google Toolbar." [Undecided,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/68663 [04:05] at least, not from the system point of view [04:05] e.g. it doesn't parse /etc/inittab, it doesn't listen on /dev/initctl [04:05] how do I get it to reread the events? [04:05] it watches the directory with inotify [04:06] is inotify easy to interface with in python [04:06] cbx33: I imagine someone has written a module by now [04:06] Keybuk: Thanks, it's started now [04:07] BenC: when you install upstart, it looks for common things in /etc/inittab and converts them to /etc/event.d files [04:07] but inittab is so utterly free form, it's very hard to do arbitrary things [04:08] Keybuk: Maybe mv inittab out of the way (/etc/inittab.upstart-disabled) and leave a file there explaining all this [04:08] BenC: too late now :) [04:08] edgy is released [04:08] what?!?! when did this happen!?! :) === lamont [i=lamont@nat/hp/x-8fe3ca663e2e23a9] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:09] BenC: you didn't get the memo? === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D80AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:23] doko_: a shame you don't get karma for uploads yet [04:25] dholbach: nah, these are auto-generated [04:25] :-) [04:25] dholbach: you say that because you beat doko number of uploads during the edgy cycle? :p [04:26] wait for the "feisty results"! ROAR! [04:26] seb128: that will become difficult for feisty ... [04:26] seb128: do you have numbers? [04:26] doko_: 444 for dholbach [04:26] doko_: 441 for you [04:26] muhuhuahhahahaha [04:27] :) [04:27] seb128: how many for you? [04:27] dholbach: not the topic :p === ivoks [n=ivoks@wall2.grad.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach hands the prize over to Mr. Sbastien "upload" Bacher === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 hugs dholbach [04:27] or as his friends call him dput-sb === dholbach hugs seb128 back [04:28] i'm out - see you guys in a bit [04:28] dholbach: and I'm still scoring for edgy, I've uploaded a couple of other edgy updates today :p [04:28] hehe [04:28] dholbach: drive safe :) [04:28] just picking up the car [04:28] brb [04:28] k [04:28] see you soon then === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm238.omega16.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-45-142.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian2 [n=bdefrees@mail.ottens.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:42] # kopt=root=UUID=880e2998-3bf0-4e8c-a437-89fac4b411d2 ro [04:42] # kopt_2_6=root=/dev/sda1 ro [04:43] anyone know why new installs still have that second line in grub's menu.lst? [04:43] it's sort of pointless to have this neat UUID stuff that's supposed to make pata upgrades to feisty work when the UUID isn't being used :) [04:44] pitti: ping === Whoopie [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:48] hi doko_ [04:49] pitti, got a sec? [04:49] lastnode: hello; what's up? [04:51] pitti, regarding your conversation with Martin Meredith on http://www.upstreamdev.org [04:51] i answered a lot of his concerns [04:52] great [04:54] <_ion> I think the "pci, video, network, apt" checkboxes should be checked by default, and the user should be told to uncheck some of them *only* if she knows what she's doing. [04:55] pitti, http://upstreamdev.org/wiki/Releases/0.1.0 , break a .deb or two if you like ;-) [04:55] _ion, those are usability issues, read http://upstreamdev.org/wiki/Releases/0.1.0#Release_Notes, some of them are addressed there [04:56] this is an early alpha, so we still have only basic functionality. no polish at all :-) === cassidy [n=cassidy@host-213-189-171-21.brutele.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pingar [n=saltvik@ti500720a080-1913.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pradeep [n=pradeep@59.92.48.121] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Czubek [n=Damian@82.160.179.2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kent [n=kent@82.145.136.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@e180092221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === EvanCarroll [n=ecarroll@64.200.109.9] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:20] hi all [05:20] is fesity open already? [05:21] sivang: not yet [05:21] pitti: ah, okay, I just saw tons of uploads to feisty-changes [05:21] pitti: of various stuff in main [05:21] I've got a really odd problem and I'm going to file a bug report on it, but I can't figure out enough information to make it really helpful, so I'm looking for ideas [05:21] sivang: just doko's rebuilds, I assume? [05:22] Yesterday night I rebuilt my /etc/network/interfaces script and today i notice something very strange, when i boot up, if it fails to get an ip address the whole system runs slow, almost like its borking acpi and throttling by 90% [05:23] <_ion> You could start by showing your /etc/network/interfaces. === RadiantFire [n=ryan@unaffiliated/radiantfire] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:23] I can't figure out any more information, but the bottom for gnome for isntance, is about 3minutes if i run `ifup ath0`, where as if i shut the interface down its like 5 seconds === robertj [n=robertj@66-168-214-78.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:23] <_ion> Also, use ifup -v ath0 [05:24] let me get that interfaces, up, and the out put for -v didn't even know there was a v [05:24] nothing is being recorded to syslog [05:25] it should also be noted i'm using madwifi === twilight_ [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:28] hrm === elias_ [n=elias@d213-102-127-104.cust.tele2.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:29] this is the most screwed up thing I've ever seen. [05:30] i'd suggest that something is trying to resolve a hostname === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [05:31] Yes, I think your right. [05:31] to some extent. [05:31] I mean aparently someone has it set to resync clcok with ntp.ubuntu.com [05:31] the script using static address so it makes it that far. === glatzor [n=sebi@p54967718.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:31] but the static address corresponds to a non-existant network [05:31] because I'm at work === freet15 [n=freet15@61.49.220.78] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:32] and then I'm kind of lost, becuase it would see as if the termination of ifup indicates that it has timed out, and yet the performance lag doesn't recede. And the kicker is, that my gkrellium graphs don't show abnormal utilization, just that everything runs slow [05:32] as if it was throttled [05:33] so I think the bug lies somewhere in the assumption that every ifup on a static address will work, which in the case of wireless amongst others is surely not true [05:33] $ ls uploads/feisty/*.changes|wc -l [05:33] 25 [05:33] *nnnng* must ... upload .. crack ... *nnng* [05:35] hrm [05:36] pitti: hmm, I have some problem with my .procmailrc , you were right :) === shenki [n=shenki@ppp85-177.lns3.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Whoopie_ [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:38] i'm attaching the strace, and ltrace, I'm just going to post it on launchpad === mconnor [n=mconnor@people.mozilla.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jonh_wendell [n=wendell@200165128047.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Imrahil [n=greg@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:45] hrm === dieffel [n=dieffel@50A2F718.flatrate.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:45] what should i file the bug in, I know it will just get reassigned anyway [05:45] ntp vs interfaces? === Whoopie [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-130-207.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:01] I filed it under netbase [06:01] bug num 70108 [06:02] strace/ltrace/ifup -v/and the actual interfaces file are provided === pingar [n=saltvik@ti500720a080-1913.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AlinuxOS [n=AlinuxOS@d83-176-108-99.cust.tele2.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jk [n=jochem@jkossen.nl] has joined #Ubuntu-devel === micahcowan [n=micahcow@69.36.252.2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kent [n=kent@82.145.136.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === apokryphos [n=apokryph@87-194-86-227.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === EvanCarroll [n=ecarroll@64.200.109.9] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Adri2000_ [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Imrahil [n=greg@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D80AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:38] who is the firefox mantainer? pitti? === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:38] jonh_wendell: iwj [06:38] pitti: thanks [06:38] I did some security updates, though [06:38] iwj: ping === SEJeff [n=jeff@office4.tmcs.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === tmarble [n=tmarble@209.162.59.166] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Harti [n=Harti@unaffiliated/harti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kagou [n=kagou@84.7.193.233] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kagou [n=kagou@84.7.193.233] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Quitte"] === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:11] jonh_wendell: always helps to say what you want, otherwise iwj will see your ping in two or three days and have to ask you then, rather than just knowing up-front [07:12] :) [07:15] it also means people don't ping, then get a pong ten hours later and don't remember what they pung about. [07:15] that's why people ping instead of asking a question [07:15] if you don't answer, it was easier to just do something else instead [07:16] tfheen: aha [07:17] Spads: bah, silly people. There's nothing wrong with long-winded conversations which takes a few days to be completed because the answers are eight hours apart. :-) [07:17] haha [07:18] tfheen: no, but sometimes it's not worth it [07:18] tfheen: or freenode kicking them off the server because of a 'DDoS' [07:18] but yeah, contentless pings remind me sometimes of people who enter a technical channel and say "can I ask a question?" and then exit in a huff when nobody says "yes" [07:19] Spads: if it's not worth it, then you shouldn't ping either. :-) [07:19] Chipzz: oh, that too. [07:19] Chipzz: wonderful IRC network we're on. [07:19] tfheen: anyway, what I meant [07:20]