[12:51] <lophyte> ajmitch: isn't it
[02:41] <robertj__> ajmitch: should make the relative necessity of hiring a small contingent to work on -directory full-time an easier pitch eh ;)
[02:42] <ajmitch> sure
[02:42] <ajmitch> as if that'll happen :)
[03:27] <nkassi_> Hey folks
[03:28] <ajmitch> hello
[03:29] <nkassi_> So will edubuntu just do there own thing ?
[03:29] <ajmitch> we'll discuss that next week
[03:29] <nkassi_> oh at the Ubuntu Summit ?
[03:29] <ajmitch> yes
[03:29] <nkassi_> ah
[03:34] <nkassi_> Using the samba.schema isn't a bad idea. Of course smbldap will be obsolete as soon as Samba 4 is out ,already pointed out I know, but including  the schemaby default  seems useful.
[03:36] <abartlet_> well, the transition from samba3 to samba4 schema will be a big thing, no matter how it's done...
[03:37] <nkassi_> yeah, I guess so. But until then, samba3 seems like a nice enough temporary solution. The upgrade might hurt.
[03:39] <abartlet_> one other interesting approach could be a passdb backend for samba3 that reads the AD-like schema
[03:40] <nkassi_> uhm, never heard of that one beford
[03:40] <nkassi_> before
[03:51] <abartlet_> hi wasabi
[03:51] <wasabi> hiya
[03:52] <ajmitch> hello wasabi
[03:52] <wasabi> hiya
[04:00] <robertj__> nkassi_: directory services are always going to hurt
[04:02] <nkassi_> I'm living through NT4 with win 2000 to AD with XP right now at work. It quite painful. ( I lost the war, their gui were better then mine)
[04:02] <nkassi_> But the pain from AD to Linux will feel like love ;0)
[04:03] <robertj__> what's so painful about AD?
[04:05] <nkassi_> It's mostly the amount of work required in cleaning up the old stuff. The file are shared using PC Netlink on a solaris box, lots of permissions are messed up. We just couldn't do a simple upgrade. Plus changing 300 desktop from 2k to XP and making sure all there files are on the san is work
[04:06] <nkassi_> AD isn't bad. It's just not what I'm used too.
[04:09] <nkassi_> Plus, I really don't have enough working experience with AD to pass judgment.
[05:53] <nkassi_> what happened to termcap-compat ? It's refered to in the FDS install doc for ubuntu/
[05:54] <ajmitch> probably another rpm they want you to convert
[05:54] <nkassi_> hum, no it doesn't seem so.
[05:55] <nkassi_> http://directory.fedora.redhat.com/wiki/Howto:DebianUbuntu
[05:56] <nkassi_> oh it seems to not be part of edgy's universer
[05:56] <nkassi_> -r
[05:57] <nkassi_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/termcap-compat
[05:59] <nkassi_> I found the .deb but the Fedora folks will have to update their docs
[06:00] <nkassi_> Of course it depends on libc5 which is also not available.
[06:02] <nkassi_> oh well no FDS for me I guess.
[06:34] <abartlet_> nkassi_: I think it's a wiki, so you should be able to update it (with variable amounts of pain to get an account)
[01:02] <fernando> morning all
[02:19] <lophyte> morning
[02:20] <fernando> hi lophyte
[02:47] <lophyte> hiya
[02:55] <SimonAnibal> howdy
[02:56] <SimonAnibal> So, how bout that Microsoft and Novell deal?
[02:58] <lophyte> yeah, really...
[02:59] <SimonAnibal> The NYTimes article I read was very vague
[02:59] <SimonAnibal> one thing that bothered me was: "As part of the agreement, Microsoft said it would not file patent infringement suits against customers who purchase Novells SuSE Linux."
[02:59] <lophyte> yeah
[03:00] <lophyte> what happens if they develop this joint technology and Microsoft pulls out of the deal?
[03:00] <lophyte> then do they have the right to sue the ass off of Novell?
[03:00] <lophyte> or their customers
[03:03] <fernando> I don't believe in Santa Claus anymore.
[03:04] <SimonAnibal> So...question is, if Microsoft and Novell jointly integrate their stuff, is it going to be MORE DIFFICULT, at least in the U.S., for Ubuntu to integrate with AD?
[03:04] <lophyte> maybe, maybe not
[03:04] <SimonAnibal> What, with "patent infringement" being bandied about like some sort of real possibility
[03:05] <SimonAnibal> You know what this means for me is that our corporate people are going to want us to start using Novell
[03:10] <lophyte> probably
[03:11] <lophyte> gr.. I need a VGA male-to-male cable
[03:27] <SimonAnibal> That's all we have over here
[03:27] <SimonAnibal> (males are the ones with the wires sticking out, right?)
[03:29] <nkassi_> yep
[03:29] <SimonAnibal> Hey, if I
[03:30] <SimonAnibal> m subscribed to Planet Ubuntu, is that just an aggregator for other people's blogs (that is, can I just unsubscribe those people I had previously subscribed)
[03:31] <lophyte> I think so
[03:31] <SimonAnibal> cool
[04:34] <stelis> wasabi_: I think that NetworkAuthentication/Server and EasyLDAPServer are basically the same spec
[04:36] <stelis> The EasyLDAPServer page talks about Kerberos, and has stuff about setup and management tools
[04:37] <stelis> Although no specific recommendations for existing tools that could be reused
[04:39] <wasabi_> Yeah. I suspect they overlap.
[04:39] <wasabi_> I personally think "EasyLDAP" is a bit of a naive term to throw around though.
[04:39] <stelis> I wasn't fond of it
[04:40] <stelis> It was basically an empty spec that we occupied
[04:40] <stelis> One thing that I was careful to do was emphasise that LDAP ought not be an auth system
[04:41] <stelis> So the page explicits talks about using it in tandem with Kerberos
[04:41] <stelis> Feel free to hack the EasyLDAP spec around to suit your requirements
[04:42] <stelis> I noticed that your client auth spec talked about a Kerberos principal per machine
[04:43] <stelis> Which I guess ties into having a record for each system in "EasyLDAP"
[04:44] <stelis> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyLDAPServer
[06:22] <wasabi_> stelis: My complaint with it is I would be very... maybe embarressed, to release a system which consisted of not much more than creation of a LDAP server.
[06:22] <wasabi_> This is something, which if we release, could be uptaken by really big shops.
[06:22] <wasabi_> They're going to expect us to have a schema in place, a supportable methodology to upgrade that schema.
[06:24] <stelis> I agree about the big shops, but I figured that it might seem easier to sell/relate to for Ubuntu folks if I talked about small shops in the use cases
[06:26] <stelis> Also I felt that if it was designed properly the underlying components would scale
[06:26] <stelis> And different interfaces could be provided for different scales of deployment
[06:27] <stelis> Again, the specs for interfaces emphasise the basic stuff that I thought would be more familiar to people
[06:28] <stelis> Talking about federated authentication etc. might just sound like moon language
[06:29] <stelis> But I am absolutely not an expert
[06:30] <stelis> My own grand plans are more about system/host management
[06:30] <stelis> What would like to see/do/implement?
[07:00] <Burgwork> wasabi_: we need to consider that getting something that works is a first step
[08:05] <wasabi_> Burgwork: I sort of disagree, expecially when it comes to LDAP.
[08:05] <wasabi_> Which is something we need to maintain an upgrade path for.
[08:05] <wasabi_> Something which tends to be hard, with LDAP.
[08:06] <wasabi_> Y know, if we choose one schema, and it sucks, and doesn't take some stuff into account, and people deploy it... then we have to upgrade schema.
[08:06] <wasabi_> So, big scripts for schema migration, hacks made so old clients work with new schema versions.
[08:06] <wasabi_> It can get messy
[08:07] <fernando> this is very common
[08:07] <wasabi_> I want to sit down and really think hard about it before commiting to anything.
[08:07] <Burgwork> yep
[08:07] <wasabi_> MS did a very good job at it, and it took them 4 years.
[08:08] <Burgwork> however, be aware that ogra is going to roll something out for Feisty for Edubuntu
[08:08] <wasabi_> And way more man power than we have. ;)
[08:08] <Burgwork> come hell or high water
[08:08] <wasabi_> Yeah. I want to think about that though. Even it means commiting to one server, no replication, and an unsupported or complex upgrade path.
[08:08] <wasabi_> I want everybody to have in mind what we will have to maintain.
[08:08] <wasabi_> And it not to be a suprise.
[08:08] <Burgwork> talk with ogra at MTV
[08:08] <Burgwork> he has a plan
[08:09] <wasabi_> MS of course unleashed the entire thing, after 4 years. Cross realm auth, forests, mutlimaster repl, replicated schema updates.
[08:09] <wasabi_> schema locks, etc.
[08:09] <wasabi_> With the entire thing well planned out.
[08:10] <wasabi_> We can start smalll, but I don't want adding one of those to screw up everybodies install. =/
[08:56] <SimonAnibal> Ya'll have a great weekend
[08:56] <SimonAnibal> ciao!
[12:01] <SimonAnibal> Anyone alive?