=== mhz_work [n=admingn@171-24-223-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #edubuntu === SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-68-251-147-250.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net] has joined #edubuntu [12:32] ogra, alive? === ogra goes to look in the mirror .... [12:33] SimonAnibal, appears like, yes :) [12:33] Heh, Hi, I'm Simon Anibal Ruiz Rolfs, we've interacted on the mailing list before [12:34] highvoltage, how can i help ? [12:34] ergh [12:34] Corey Burger told me I should hook up with you about AD auth [12:34] hi , how can i help ? [12:34] You want it badly by Feisty [12:34] I want it badly by Feisty [12:34] me too [12:34] See, I'm the only high school implementation of Ubuntu in the United States [12:35] As far as Richard Weideman knows [12:35] i invited the smbladp upstream developers to mountainview to the conference (actually we're just sitting on the same table at the ltsp conference here) [12:35] We have 279 workstations [12:35] and need this piece very soon, especially in the wake of the Novell Microsoft announcement [12:36] Which is to say [12:36] the plan is to integrate what they have built into edubuntu, pop a gui on top and rip out the gnome users-admin from the server install [12:36] smbldap is widely used in edu distros i.e. K12LTSP [12:36] If I can't deliver AD integration, I may not be able to keep Ubuntu here [12:36] And I don't want that to happen [12:36] its a proven well working setup ... [12:36] That's good, the main piece we need, though, is the client side [12:36] issue is, SimonAnibal doesn't control the server [12:37] In the U.S. the server side isn't going to matter [12:37] at least strategically right now [12:37] and you apparentl need it with edgy [12:37] I'd like to get it up and running ASAP [12:37] And I can be your real world test case [12:37] My experience can help smooth out the rough areas [12:38] then i'm likely the wrong guy to talk to, ajmitch implemeted it in edgy but didnt finish it off, i know it works but needs maual work of the admin [12:38] That's fine, and that's the first step [12:38] A good, solid HOWTO is the first step [12:38] I can work with a HowTo myself [12:39] and implement it [12:39] and then I can help solidify that HOWTO into a gui or something [12:39] right, try to get hold of ajmitch, he should be able to point you to the right docs or help you out answering support questions === jinty [n=jinty@137.Red-83-50-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #edubuntu [12:39] awesome [12:39] :) [12:40] in feisty we'll hopefully have both (server and client) basically integrated in edubuntu ... [12:40] ajmitch, Get a hold of me, I'll start hanging out in here on top of my other places or you can email me at sruiz@mccsc.edu I need your expertise and documents on Active Directory integration from the client side [12:41] Cool [12:41] So talk to me about what's going on with Edubuntu and Ubuntu-Education [12:41] I notice you're not in #ubuntu-education, and I don't remember you being on the ubuntu-education mailing list [12:41] are we separate projects? [12:42] there yre many many overlaps ... but RichEd made them distinct projects since people also use ubuntu in education [12:42] s/yre/are/ [12:43] So, then, what is Edubuntu if not Ubuntu taylored for Education? [12:44] that is a fun distinction [12:44] I disagree with the breakup as RichEd laid it down [12:45] I wouldn't mind a little enlightenment, if you have the time [12:45] I don't mind working with both projects if they both fit my goals [12:45] Burgwork, ++ [12:46] but now its in place [12:46] it is not laid in the sand [12:46] so lets make the best out of it :) [12:46] As far as I understood it, wasn't that going to be under discussion at Mountain View? [12:47] my hope is that edubuntu gets lots of input from the ubuntu-education side so we can in the end provide everything thats needed everywhere in edubuntu [12:47] and dont need the distinction anymore [12:47] I think RichEd sees Edubuntu as merely LTSP [12:47] which is wrong ... [12:47] ie: just an implementation [12:47] I see Edubuntu as "Ubuntu in Education and all that implies" [12:47] right [12:47] Well, unfortunately you've both seen me comment that that's what my experience of it has been [12:47] even my personal focus lies in ltsp, its still more than that [12:48] I think LTSP should be available on all platforms [12:48] ltsp is only a minor part [12:48] it is [12:48] it is [12:48] bugger :) [12:48] right, but I mean in practice [12:48] you can install LTSP on Ubuntu [12:49] In practice no other package has it, but Edubuntu [12:49] but edubuntu is the only distro that fully configures a default setup so that even an arts teacher who doesnt know much about computers can use it right away [12:49] in ubuntu and xubuntu you need to do manual setup after install thats the whole difference [12:49] Right [12:49] Shouldn't that be available to users of (K)(X)Ubuntu [12:49] we're just talking about http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ [12:50] apart from the educational stuff? [12:50] i hope it will be done by feisty [12:50] cool [12:50] then it doesnt matter on which system you use it [12:50] Because the other side is [12:50] Edubuntu = ubuntu + ltsp + educational program + educational content + classwork managemtent tools. [12:50] Not every school WANTS LTSP [12:50] it will be a charm to set up ltsp and maintain it [12:50] LTSP's a part, but the educational part puts the edu in edubuntu. [12:50] sbalneav, ++ [12:51] but edubuntu can also be the standalone pcs [12:51] ltsp was simply the part that wasnt developed yet ... [12:51] and when my company gets it act together and releases our multiseat stuff as free software, multiseat [12:51] the main focus for edubuntu will move on [12:51] for feisty its AD [12:52] So, I agree with Richard as far as the LTSP part, while important to eduation in third world countries, is not really "educational" technology, and...well, neither is AD for that matter [12:53] SimonAnibal: the key thing is not to get hung up on one piece of technology [12:53] I think that is where RichEd is stuck as well [12:53] Heheh [12:53] LTSP is one part, currently a large part [12:53] Well, I guess I don't understand why it's default for Edubuntu, and not a simply option for all is all [12:53] SimonAnibal, edubuntu is about integrating that technologies as well as educational apps ... [12:54] because we oriented on the biggest edu distro which s K12LTSP ... [12:54] Ahhh....I see [12:54] it's sort of vestigial, like? [12:54] Or, ummm, hereditary [12:55] in fact my big hope is to have the K12 community joining us at one point and considering edubuntu as a base for them instead of redhat [12:55] merging the efforts to become the biggest force [12:55] And you're tackling each major technology that'll get us there at a time [12:55] right [12:56] Ok, well, then, from what you're saying the new era of Edubuntu is exactly where I fit in as far as where you can help me and I can help you [12:56] i'm mostly alone, so i *can* only attack one at a time ;) [12:56] Well, I'm sorry I misunderstood [12:56] I am rather new to all of this [12:57] Which sort of limits my use [12:57] totally not :) [12:57] And my situation limited me from being of use in the last era of Edubuntu [12:57] your feedback is a valuable contribution already ;) [12:57] Since using modern machines as LTSP clients wouldn't be very worthwhile [12:58] it would [12:58] oh? [12:58] LTSP is more than "reusing old hardware" [12:58] lots more [12:58] my dream is "Edubuntu cluster" [12:58] I thought the idea was to pass off processing to something with processor speed [12:58] a mix of thin and fat clients, all sharing one giant pool of computing power [12:58] its about maintaining only one centralized server [12:58] If you already have a 2.4 GHz processor, what's the point? [12:59] you can run a full diskless workstation on that 2ghz cpu [12:59] but without local HD === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #edubuntu [12:59] how much network traffic for 297 workstations? [12:59] SimonAnibal: Which is more work, maintaining a lab of 40 machines with hard drives, or maintaining one machine that serves 40 diskless thin clients :) [12:59] which means you can do all maintenance locally on the server and all workstations in your network pick it up right away [01:00] can i view the schedule yet? [01:00] for uds? [01:00] cbx33, no [01:00] also, where do I get information about gobby...and ekiga === his_dudnes [n=aqd@88.218.17.71] has joined #edubuntu [01:00] I'm looking at SystemImager as a way to do all the work on one "golden client" and pushing that image out to everyone else [01:00] cbx33, it will be mailed out early enough [01:00] Damn it all [01:00] I want to make sure I can attend the SCP spec [01:00] SimonAnibal: I would rather do kickstart [01:00] I hope it's during time I'm either not travelling or free [01:01] SimonAnibal, thats exactly what ltsp provides you [01:01] SimonAnibal: clean installs are better than images [01:01] Would this require having a DHCP server? [01:01] And how much network traffic per workstation? [01:01] those are my main questions [01:02] yes it requires that a dhcp server tells the workstation to boot for a ltsp server [01:02] then it's already not possible for me [01:02] our IS department has forbidden DHCP servers [01:02] They have "jurisdiction" of that [01:02] do they run one ? [01:03] They do, and they don't let anyone else mess with it [01:03] thats fine, they just need to set it up the right way :) [01:04] So, how would the workstations function without a harddisk? NFS? [01:06] they boot from a readonly NFS root on the server [01:06] may i join with an edubuntu/ltsp question? [01:06] then set up tmpfs'es for the files it needs read/writeable in ram [01:06] you can than make it mount /home from a centralized server ... [01:07] his_dudnes, indeed [01:07] So, what, it runs everything from memory? [01:07] yep ... as a normal system does as well ... [01:07] Ok...what happens in the following scenario: [01:08] It's a beautiful Monday morning and the teachers come in. They flip the switch and 279 workstations all light up at once. [01:08] on a 100 Mbit network [01:09] you will need gigE for full workstations in that scenario [01:09] 100 mbit is fine for normal thin clients but not for running fully set up workstations === SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-68-251-147-250.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net] has joined #edubuntu [01:12] ack === icheyne [n=icheyne@84.13.242.46] has joined #edubuntu [01:15] what are the system requirements of Edubuntu? [01:16] recommended requirements - not minimum [01:16] :) [01:16] heh, anything greater than the minimum requirements ;) [01:17] lol [01:17] icheyne, for a classroom server or a standalone workstation ? [01:17] standalone [01:17] please [01:17] edubuntu provides both [01:17] well i had set an ltsp on mandriva (ltsp 4.1), when time came to migrate to ubuntu, i thought that "apt-get install edubuntu-desktop" would have it all setup out of the box , it wasnt quite so.I edited "/etc/ltsp/dhcp3.conf " and ran ltsp-build-client, I am stuck exactly after the tftp stage of booting, if understand it well in edubuntu tftp doesnt provide the kernel directly it provides an intermediate file with "pxe" in the file name (i am not now on [01:17] the server). Sow it never gets past that pxe file.alsow i was wandering wich is the script that updates /etc/hosts etc. the old "ltspcfg" equivalent, if i understoud well the guides, i must not run the old ltspcfg scripts because they are deprecated.I think i am missing something obvius but i cant get pass that point... [01:18] sorry ogra for that answer..i couldn't come up with anything better [01:18] excuse the flod [01:18] oh man - got to go [01:18] bye all [01:18] :( [01:18] icheyne, for a worstation that same as for ubuntu with ~500MB more diskspace for the educational apps [01:19] oh? [01:19] *thats [01:19] same as Ubuntu [01:19] right [01:19] ok that's great [01:19] thanks so much [01:19] :) [01:19] bye [01:19] edubuntu workstation is ubuntu+edu apps [01:19] see'yall later [01:19] ciao cbx33 [01:19] ogra, does the schedule get mailed to everyone? [01:19] thanks for the warning cbx33 ;) [01:19] cbx33, nope [01:19] nixternal, what warning ;? [01:19] there will be a notification mail [01:19] see'yall later [01:20] ah right ok [01:20] let me know you will be back later ;) [01:20] heheh [01:20] ah ha ha :p [01:20] his_dudnes, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall [01:20] hehe [01:20] right I'm off.... [01:20] thanks ogra [01:20] his_dudnes, oh, sorry that wont help you ... youre beyond setting it up [01:20] man i wish i was goin' to mtv...damn thy government! [01:20] try running: sudo ltsp-update-kernels [01:21] sorry, but we have to leave the conference room here ... [01:22] thanks [01:22] his_dudnes, subscribe to edubuntu-devel and mail the list, i'll answer you there ... [01:22] thanks a lot.... [01:22] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel [01:22] ;) === SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-68-251-147-250.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net] has joined #edubuntu === SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-68-251-147-250.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net] has joined #edubuntu === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #edubuntu [01:32] I'm obviously having connection problems here [01:32] ogra, Burgwork: if you read this and can answer my concern at sruiz@mccsc.edu, I'd really appreciate it. I REALLY want to make the best decisions up front for this network, and your expertise would be GREATLY appreciated! [01:33] ogra, Burgwork: I mean the LAN bandwidth concern [01:33] I'm cutting out now [01:33] ciao! === SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-68-251-147-250.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net] has joined #edubuntu === SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-68-251-147-250.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net] has joined #edubuntu === mhz_work is now known as mhz === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #edubuntu === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #edubuntu === outchy [n=njo@c-66-30-232-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #edubuntu [03:57] i have a question about installing edubuntu on a g4 powerbook ... i can't get it to boot from CD and i've spent the last 2 hours scouring the internet for the answer [03:58] does anyone know? === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #edubuntu === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #edubuntu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #edubuntu === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@201.230.1.245] has joined #edubuntu === ulinskie [n=yolynne@202.57.88.42] has joined #edubuntu [07:17] LaserJock: are you around? [07:18] edubuntugirl: tell LaserJock not sure if you've seen this before... http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/10/23/science/20061024_ILLO_GRAPHIC.html [07:18] Righto, highvoltage! [07:19] highvoltage: yes, I saw it today [07:19] LaserJock: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'not sure if you've seen this before... http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/10/23/science/20061024_ILLO_GRAPHIC.html' 34 seconds ago (on Sat Nov 4 08:17:55 2006) [07:19] lol [07:19] cool [07:20] I wonder how well that kind of periodic table would work well [07:20] it seems a little complicated at first glance [07:20] but I've had the good 'ole periodic table drilled into my head [07:20] we had to memorize it [07:21] I think making even the slightest change would probably have huge effects. Text books would need updating, lots of software would need updating... and like you, many people have it memorised. [07:21] having said that, I don't believe in stopping progress :) [07:22] that's would be a bugger to code [07:22] s/'s// [07:22] I do see some interesting points [07:22] it would be nice for programs such as gperiodic to 'know' that there might be different layouts in te future, so that you can switch between different views and models. [07:22] heh [07:22] :) [07:23] I don't know that I'll have to worry about it anytime soon [07:23] yeah. it will probably take a few decades for scientists to battle it out. === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #edubuntu [07:23] highvoltage: at least [07:23] I can see the flamewars on the scientists periodictable-chat mailing lists. [07:24] sometimes science takes a while for these kinds of things [07:24] in general most chemisty textbooks are roughly 50 years behind current research [07:25] geez [07:25] it's pretty difficult [07:25] chemisty, in particular, seems difficult [07:26] as we just keep adding chemistry knowledge [07:26] rather then redoing or replacing === sbalneav [n=sbalneav@157.130.196.102] has joined #edubuntu [07:49] Evening all [07:49] hi sbalneav [07:49] hi [07:50] Hey highvoltage, Kamping_Kaiser [07:50] :) [07:50] sbalneav: with the official ltsp 5 release, are you going to use xdmcp or ssh? [07:50] hey Kamping_Kaiser [07:50] :) [07:50] With the stuff that I'm working on this week, it should be able to use both. [07:50] and still do localdevices. [07:51] does localdevices work with xdmcp on edgy's ltsp? [07:51] No, not at the moment. [07:51] eesh. [07:51] Only with the LDM ssh-tunneled connection. [07:51] does anyone know if it would be possible to backport ltsp5 to dapper? [07:51] i'm hoping for device support ;| [07:52] Kamping_Kaiser: you should be able to do a manual installation of it, but as the saying goes, it won't be officially supported [07:52] But, I demoed a proof of concept today that combines both. I figure there's about 20 hours worth of work to finish it off. [07:52] (not by ubuntu anyway) [07:52] wow [07:52] I suppose I could use the xfce4 style local decives with xdmcp? although that would be a bit hacky :/ [07:53] highvoltage, i apreciate it wouldnt be supported, i' suppose i'll have to investigate a manual install :| [07:53] sbalneav: are you paid by your work to work on LTSP? [07:53] Kamping_Kaiser: check the ltsp wiki when ltsp 5 is released :) [07:53] Kamping_Kaiser: looking at the deps, it shouldn't be to bad. I would recompile [07:53] Burgundavia: Nope. I work for free :) [07:54] Shuttleworth does pay, however, to bring me down to the UDS conferences, which is GREATLY appreciated, by me. [07:54] However, the rest of what I do, I do simply because I love to do it. :) === Kamping_Kaiser pokes ltsp into releaseing 5 [07:55] We'll do it when it's done :) [07:55] oh no [07:55] And not a second sooner :) [07:55] sbalneav: has been converted to the Debian side [07:55] hehe [07:55] s/:// [07:55] Heh, we've NEVER had any sort of firm release schedule. [07:56] We're even WORSE than debian :) [07:56] *grin* [07:56] However, I think you'll see a tarball out from us within the short term. [07:57] yay. then i just have to get it installing in dapper without uber breakery [07:57] The problems not the chroot. [07:58] The problems the patches to Nautilus we had to make to fix broken behavior in /media handling. [07:58] THAT will be the tricky part to backport. [07:58] And without it, localdevices in dapper will be useless. [07:58] oh :( [07:59] So, why not upgrade to edgy, and simply get the good stuff now? [07:59] its a community group's server, and i want tehm on the LTS [08:00] Right, because you're going to be wanting to run a 5 year old operating system in the future :) [08:00] 3 years. [08:00] i think it's good that ltsp doesn't rush it. ltsp 4.2 was of excellent quality, and 5 is nearly a re-write, and users will expect the same quality they had in 4.2 [08:00] i'm happy for them to take their time, i'm just getting excited === Kamping_Kaiser has heard bad stories about dapper-> edgy upgrades [08:01] but the lts is what is keeping the server where it is. [08:01] ubuntu's upgrades are very fragile at the moment. [08:02] :( [08:02] No they work fine. Unless you've buggered up your box by running that idiotic "faster dapper" shell script. [08:02] And if you have, you deserve whatever you get :) [08:03] hehehe [08:03] I had 5 boxes, all upgraded from dapper to edgy just fine. [08:03] I had many boxes that upgraded fine too, but then again... [08:03] if you don't have dumb stuff installed, you should be mostly good [08:03] no upgrade is going to be painless [08:03] I've had a couple of boxes that had nothing strange of them and they still didn't upgrade fine [08:04] which is due to legitamite bugs. [08:04] highvoltage: is legitamite a new kind of vegamite? maybe one that is allowed in the US? [08:04] upgrading from sysvinit -> upstart did somevery strange stuff on my boxes. [08:04] Burgundavia: d'oh! [08:04] hehe [08:04] *grin* [08:05] yeah, I did 3 upgrades just fine [08:05] my father used to eat that stuff. All this ZA blood and I dispise teh stuff [08:05] Burgundavia: hey I just got up like, 30 minutes ago, it takes a while for the engrish to kick in [08:05] Burgundavia, what vegimte? [08:05] *emite [08:05] we don't have vegemite in .za [08:05] or marmite [08:05] aaaah [08:05] marmites horrible [08:05] both look like road tar [08:05] vegemite rocks [08:05] and taste only slightly better [08:06] lol === Kamping_Kaiser eats it raw === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu === jbrefort [n=jean@mar44-2-82-227-215-241.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #edubuntu [09:03] wow. glade is great. I finally grok it. if only I knew it was this simple *ages* ago. [09:04] highvoltage: what are you working on? [09:05] highvoltage: glade is the bomb [09:13] Burgundavia: just a simple chooser screen for a live cd [09:13] highvoltage: chooser screen? [09:13] Burgundavia: so that a user can choose to start ubiquity directly, instead of launching the whole livecd [09:13] ah, cool [09:13] we need that [09:13] or they can choose just to have a rescue environment (which I still have to write) [09:13] we really need that [09:13] i hope to get it in upstream ubuntu once its more polished [09:14] our release date is 15 November, so I have to get it all working by then :) [09:14] everything is so quiet, most of the people are on a plane [09:14] yep. [09:14] they're on a plane. they can't complain. [09:14] [09:15] snakes? [09:16] haha [09:16] snakes on planes are *so* last UDS [09:17] highvoltage: are you headed to MTV? [09:17] it seems anything voip wasn't even considered this time [09:17] no, it was [09:17] Burgundavia: nope, I am flooded with work atm :/ [09:17] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/Ekiga [09:17] I would've really, really liked to go though. [09:17] yes [09:17] similarly for myself [09:17] yes, I'll be doing the ekiga thing :) [09:18] (when possible) [09:18] timezone differences might make it difficult. [09:18] same tz as me [09:18] *sigh* i will have to fix my router jsut for ekiga [09:18] which actually makes it harder [09:18] but I'm getting used to less sleep these days :) [09:18] jsgotangco: unlikely [09:18] ekiga should be able to bypass it [09:19] surely? [09:19] hmm but im in kde now [09:19] heheh [09:19] ekiga should run fine in kde. [09:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/KPhone [09:20] got ya covered [09:20] they are using SIP [09:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/SIP === jsgotangco grabs kphone === ulinskie [n=yolynne@202.57.88.42] has joined #edubuntu [09:21] jsgotangco: are you on KDE these days? [09:22] Burgundavia: well as of 2 days ago ive been using it exclusively [09:22] ah [09:22] i just dont want to miss anything [09:23] there are some stuff that i seem to like it more here [09:23] kde has always had too many options and not enough planning for me [09:25] I fear the KDE people are going to have a backlash with 4, because there has been this "promising the world" expectation, with little to see [09:25] such as maybe, spinny cubes or other bits [09:26] well its pretty much an all or nothing project [09:27] yep [09:28] there is going to be solid stuff underpining KDE4, I just wonder it will be like our edgy [09:28] not very edgy, mostly infrastructure [09:28] 2 non-free software i use (opera, skype) work very well in kde [09:30] right [09:30] I hate skype and everything it stands for [09:30] however, it does work [09:30] surely i dont like being tied to it, but all my contacts use it [09:31] no one i know has even heard of gizmo at least [09:32] there is no project to take voip back, a firefox like project [09:33] that's sad ekiga isn't something that is nice to use for starters [09:33]