[08:30] <DanaG> hmm, what I'm looking for: a Metacity theme that actually matches the Human GTK theme.
[08:30] <DanaG> The Human metacity theme is not close enough, for my tastes at least.
[08:32] <klepas> DanaG: one site
[08:32] <klepas> http://www.gnome-look.org
[08:32] <DanaG> I've looked, but I haven't found anything 'just right'
[08:33] <klepas> check out Murrine and Candido
[08:34] <klepas> while you're at it you might even switch to their respective gtk themes and engines
[08:36] <DanaG> eeh, it's the Ubuntulooks GTK theme that I like.
[08:36] <DanaG> Though, if I could get the old Clearlooks with the new orange, that would be nice too.
[08:37] <DanaG> I think it's actually the GTK theme that's setting the Metacity theme's colors.
[08:39] <klepas> you can edit the gtkrc files in the themes
[08:39] <klepas> for whatever colours you want
[08:40] <DanaG> oh, good point there...
[08:40] <DanaG> but which entry is it?
[08:40] <DanaG> s/entry/definition/ (or whatever you call it)
[08:47] <klepas> that, i don't know :o)
[08:48] <klepas> use a desktop colour picker to find out what it is you want to edit
[08:48] <klepas> and then find that hex entry in the file
[08:49] <DanaG> The metacity theme is a gradient, so it'd be tricky.
[08:49] <klepas> that would be an image then
[08:49] <klepas> open it up in gimp and edit it :)
[08:50] <DanaG> There aren't any pixmaps of any type I can recognize.
[08:57] <klepas> then it must be a cairo thing
[08:57] <DanaG> Yeah.
[08:57] <klepas> all down in the metacity configuration file
[03:54] <Entity411> hello
[06:00] <troy_s> greetz trae
[06:01] <Trae> howdy
[06:01] <Trae> man
[06:01] <Trae> I've been having some bad computer days
[06:01] <Trae> heh
[06:01] <Trae> @%@%$% boxes are dying on me left and right
[08:12] <kwwii> howdy from sunny california
[08:36] <BHSPitLappy> howdy is our word! -Texas
[09:10] <troy_s> how goes mv kwwii?
[09:11] <kwwii> howdy troy_s
[09:12] <kwwii> good, good...enjoying the UDS as best as possible
[09:12] <troy_s> as best as possible?
[09:12] <kwwii> troy_s: how are things with you?
[09:12] <troy_s> busy as feck.
[09:12] <kwwii> I was kinda sad to see that no ubuntu artwork people came here
[09:13] <kwwii> troy_s: hehe, better too much work than too little :-)
[09:13] <troy_s> hasn't been my experience of late.
[09:13] <troy_s> ;)
[09:27] <somerville32> Hi :)
[09:27] <troy_s> kwwii anything new on the table?
[09:27] <troy_s> hi somerville32
[09:28] <somerville32> Do you guys know who is doing Xubuntu artwork?
[09:28] <troy_s> yes
[09:28] <troy_s> josef mak
[09:28] <somerville32> Is he here? :] 
[09:28] <troy_s> no, but you can reach him via his launchpad email
[09:29] <somerville32> Alrighty. Thanks :] 
[09:29] <troy_s> np
[09:30] <kwwii> troy_s: not too much, I was hoping on perfecting the process stuff
[09:30] <troy_s> not going to happen
[09:30] <troy_s> ;)
[09:30] <kwwii> troy_s: I made 5 specs before this began
[09:30] <kwwii> troy_s: why? do you think it is perfect?
[09:30] <troy_s> well...
[09:31] <somerville32> Troy_s: Do you have a link to his launchpad page?
[09:31] <troy_s> it has more to do with the reality of ubuntu artwork
[09:32] <troy_s> but it is basically a distilled translation from design 101.
[09:32] <troy_s> somerville32: look under the ubuntu-art list
[09:32] <troy_s> he is on there somewhere
[09:33] <kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I agree with the basics, but very apparently (after edgy) there still needs to be some fine-tuning to make it reality
[09:33] <somerville32> Alrighty
[09:33] <troy_s> not really
[09:33] <somerville32> Is it this guy?: https://launchpad.net/people/joz-mak
[09:33] <troy_s> the primary problem with edgy
[09:33] <troy_s> was the reality of sabdfl as head designer
[09:34] <troy_s> somerville32: yes.
[09:34] <troy_s> kwwii there is zero need for a process in ubuntu art, because there is zero destination.
[09:34] <troy_s> at least currently.
[09:34] <kwwii> hehe
[09:34] <somerville32> Alrighty. Thanks :)
[09:34] <troy_s> but that will take sabdfl some further research and learning.
[09:35] <troy_s> i was discussing ubuntu with a couple of folks -- one from 'the drawing board' and the others were two art directors.
[09:36] <troy_s> those are probably heavier credits than you are going to find _anywhere_ in the open source community.
[09:36] <kwwii> hehe
[09:36] <troy_s> and the result was largely the same -- you can only get to where the client wishes to go.
[09:36] <kwwii> yeah, I must say that I definitely saw all this coming
[09:36] <troy_s> not at all...
[09:36] <troy_s> that's rather .... 20 20 hindsight.
[09:37] <troy_s> without client participation, it is impossible to follow design through.
[09:38] <troy_s> and that fact was made clear at various points, but one can only do so much.
[09:38] <kwwii> totally true
[09:38] <kwwii> I sent mark several mails (a while ago) saying exactly that
[09:38] <kwwii> but anyway
[09:39] <troy_s> well... there was a _lot_ of email :)
[09:39] <troy_s> the problem largely lies in lack of experience with design development, lack of participation, and a tendency to apply 'learned' processes to another sphere (micromanaging)
[09:40] <troy_s> dare i say start with the three c's of design:
[09:40] <troy_s> concept
[09:40] <troy_s> components
[09:40] <troy_s> compositions
[09:40] <troy_s> ;)
[09:40] <troy_s> without that concept,
[09:40] <troy_s> its a bit hard to get to the other two.
[09:41] <kwwii> I guess giving people the right jobs, and making sure that the upper tier jobs are well filled is very important
[09:41] <troy_s> sort of irrelevant with ubuntu
[09:41] <troy_s> largely because the aesthetic arch is pinned by sab.
[09:42] <troy_s> which means even locking something as simple as the concept of communication down is nigh on impossible.
[09:42] <troy_s> what the design seeks to communicate.
[09:45] <troy_s> who is there to replace you kwwii?
[09:45] <troy_s> from the kub clan?
[09:46] <kwwii> troy_s: nuno (who is sitting next to me)...I suggested him
[09:46] <troy_s> ahh good.
[09:46] <kwwii> not sure what the point is behind changing a good thing, but we shall see what happens
[09:46] <kwwii> :p
[09:49] <troy_s> relative world.
[09:51] <troy_s> it's in mark's goals
[09:51] <troy_s> and i would tend to agree with you
[09:51] <troy_s> ultimately, DESIGN and FUNCTION merge into form
[09:51] <troy_s> right now ... there is function