| === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === spiv [n=andrew@218-214-66-203.people.net.au] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| ddaa | Good morning folks | 10:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ddaa | This the Launchpad-Bazaar integration meeting. | 10:00 |
| ddaa | == Agenda == | 10:01 |
| ddaa | Next meeting Monday 27 November, 09:00-09:45 UTC. | 10:01 |
| ddaa | Next week is the allhands meeting, so at this time we'll all be busy recovering from jetlag. | 10:01 |
| ddaa | Following week ddaa is on leave. | 10:01 |
| ddaa | There can be a meeting on November 20th if somebody else wants to chair it. | 10:01 |
| ddaa | * production status | 10:01 |
| ddaa | * status reports | 10:01 |
| ddaa | == Roll call == | 10:01 |
| ddaa | _thumper_ is on leave until start of December. | 10:01 |
| spiv | I'm here. | 10:01 |
| jamesh | here. | 10:01 |
| spiv | lifeless is at UDS, I think? | 10:01 |
| jamesh | yeah | 10:02 |
| ddaa | I gathered that much. | 10:02 |
| ddaa | poolie? Is he at UDS too? | 10:02 |
| spiv | No, he's in Sydney. | 10:02 |
| ddaa | SteveA: ping? | 10:03 |
| ddaa | So... I take it none of you want to chair the meeting on Nov. 20? | 10:04 |
| ddaa | Apparently no. Moving on then. | 10:05 |
| ddaa | poolie missing | 10:05 |
| ddaa | SteveA silent | 10:05 |
| ddaa | == Production status == | 10:05 |
| ddaa | New rollouts or production problems. | 10:05 |
| spiv | poolie missing, presumed fed. ;) | 10:05 |
| ddaa | Wednesday, uncovered a new critical bug in svn support of svn | 10:05 |
| ddaa | fix was blocked on new pysvn on importd systems | 10:06 |
| ddaa | was some miscommunication with elmo about upgrading the importd systems to Dapper | 10:06 |
| ddaa | upgrade should occur today without further ado | 10:06 |
| spiv | That's good news. | 10:06 |
| ddaa | Then I'll rollout all the svn import goodness I've been working on for a few weeks. | 10:06 |
| jamesh | great. | 10:07 |
| ddaa | althought essentially all of it is still in or pending reviews :( | 10:07 |
| ddaa | spiv: jamesh: any news on production from you? | 10:07 |
| jamesh | nope. | 10:07 |
| spiv | Nope. | 10:08 |
| ddaa | jamesh: so, did stub set-up PRF to run periodically? | 10:08 |
| jamesh | ddaa: yep | 10:08 |
| ddaa | what frequency? | 10:08 |
| jamesh | not sure. Probably daily | 10:08 |
| ddaa | okay | 10:08 |
| jamesh | but I can find out specifically if you want | 10:08 |
| ddaa | Not important, just want everybody to be able to answer this question :) | 10:09 |
| ddaa | "periodically, probably daily" is good enough :) | 10:09 |
| ddaa | Moving on. | 10:09 |
| ddaa | == Status reports == | 10:09 |
| ddaa | * spiv: supermirror-smart-server. | 10:09 |
| ddaa | * jamesh: spec-branches. | 10:09 |
| ddaa | * ddaa: python import. | 10:09 |
| spiv | Nothing to report :/ | 10:09 |
| jamesh | spec-branches is in the review queue | 10:10 |
| jamesh | based on the workflow ddaa described to me | 10:10 |
| ddaa | spiv: is that because you are very busy with something else, or is this because you are blocked? | 10:10 |
| spiv | ddaa: because I'm busy. | 10:10 |
| spiv | There's nothing blocking me from working on it, except for other work :) | 10:11 |
| ddaa | python import: passed in autotest, will go through the motions to make it happen in production after the dapper upgrade | 10:11 |
| ddaa | so, the import will happen w/o renames support | 10:11 |
| ddaa | but considering how work is piling up, I do not think it's wise to delay it further. | 10:12 |
| ddaa | jamesh: good news | 10:12 |
| ddaa | spiv: care to expand on what's keeping you so busy, I'm just curious. | 10:12 |
| ddaa | * ddaa: pyrex. | 10:12 |
| ddaa | * poolie: bzr-lp features. | 10:12 |
| ddaa | pyrex: the branches were put in SteveA's review queue, I did not hear anything from SteveA about them. | 10:13 |
| spiv | ddaa: launchpad reviews, work on bzr smart server itself (getting unmerged stuff merged, making it as ready as possible for others to work on improving it) | 10:14 |
| ddaa | bzr-lp features: we had an action last week to garden the launchpad-bazaar specs | 10:14 |
| ddaa | who actually came around to look at the specs? | 10:14 |
| ddaa | I did not. | 10:14 |
| jamesh | I didn't get round to it either | 10:15 |
| ddaa | spiv: you also had an action last week to follow up on bzr-webserve deployment on devpad with the sysadmins | 10:15 |
| spiv | I haven't gardened specs, because I'm still waiting to hear from poolie that the new specs from Singapore have been added before I do. | 10:16 |
| ddaa | spiv: that's good to know, we should do the same :) | 10:16 |
| spiv | I haven't followed up with the sysadmins :( | 10:16 |
| spiv | I'll do that after the meeting via RT. | 10:17 |
| jamesh | spiv: there seems to be a bunch of new registered specs without actual specification text ... | 10:17 |
| ddaa | spiv: just think how excited kiko would get if he had it | 10:17 |
| ddaa | he would be like a 10 years old with a new toy | 10:17 |
| spiv | ddaa: :) | 10:18 |
| === ddaa mumbles something about launchpad specification wanking abuse | ||
| spiv | ddaa: actually, I think he'll be like "huh?" when he sees the slightly obtuse UI of the webserve plugin... I guess we'll find out :) | 10:19 |
| ddaa | *shrug* well, then he can fix it :) | 10:19 |
| === jamesh wouldn't mind getting bzr support into viewvc | ||
| ddaa | = Any other business? = | 10:19 |
| ddaa | One from me: | 10:20 |
| spiv | jamesh: that's probably a good idea. Any idea what that would involve? | 10:20 |
| spiv | jamesh: (just briefly, so we don't get too off-topic) | 10:20 |
| jamesh | spiv: it supports two revision control systems, so there is some level of abstraction in there | 10:20 |
| ddaa | so, it seems we got agreement on cscvs, I just need to slap some consistent copyright notices on the Canonical code and get the thing out there with an official name != csvs (e.g. launchpad-cscvs). | 10:20 |
| ddaa | I will go with gplv2+later because apparently nobody in the management really cares | 10:21 |
| jamesh | ddaa: GPL sounds fine to me -- usually people are interested in the output of the code more than the code itself | 10:21 |
| spiv | jamesh: ok, so it sounds like you know about as much as I do about viewvc. Fair enough :) | 10:21 |
| jamesh | and it is clear that cscvs's output isn't a derivative product of the code itself. | 10:21 |
| ddaa | jamesh: well, there's this whole debate about gplv2 or gplv2+... | 10:21 |
| jamesh | spiv: I've done a bit of work on it a few years ago (I have commit access) | 10:22 |
| ddaa | but since it's an entirely one sided debate, with me being the only side, the conclusion is easy :) | 10:22 |
| spiv | ddaa: I'd default to the GPL as the FSF wrote it (i.e. v2+) unless you have a reason not to. | 10:22 |
| jamesh | ddaa: gplv2 only would likely cause problems if we want to do GPL3 later on | 10:23 |
| spiv | jamesh: Ah, ok | 10:23 |
| ddaa | Any other business from you guys? | 10:24 |
| spiv | Not from me. | 10:24 |
| jamesh | spiv: anyway, once ddaa's SVN fixes are landed, hopefully I can get a bzr import of viewvc to hack on :) | 10:24 |
| spiv | jamesh: :) | 10:24 |
| ddaa | jamesh: there are still three big known issues with the svn stuff | 10:24 |
| ddaa | 1. externals must be thoroughly ignored, otherwise we get a validation failure at the end | 10:24 |
| spiv | I'm still waiting for a Twisted import, but I assume that squishing other bugs is bringing that closer slowly. | 10:25 |
| ddaa | 2. names that contain a char that needs to be uri-encoded cause cscvs to barf | 10:25 |
| ddaa | 3. it's doing umpteem bazillion connections and needs a really stable server on the other hand | 10:25 |
| ddaa | spiv: btw, congrats on the stability of the twisted svn server it's impressive | 10:25 |
| ddaa | So, meeting closed by default. | 10:26 |
| spiv | ddaa: I have nothing to do with that, I'm happy to say :) | 10:26 |
| spiv | (or with trac, which is proving to be extremely unreliable on twistedmatrix.com) | 10:27 |
| ddaa | spiv: considering how large the twisted import is, and how slowly it went, I never expected it to pass autotest so easily... | 10:28 |
| jamesh | trac doesn't seem to scale to moderate-large projects | 10:28 |
| spiv | jamesh: it will be interesting to see how it goes for Python then... | 10:29 |
| jamesh | spiv: well, all we need is a trac -> LP importer ... | 10:29 |
| ddaa | trac is quite rich I gather | 10:30 |
| spiv | ddaa: Hmm, I didn't realise it had passed auto testing! | 10:30 |
| ddaa | spiv: it just takes a loooooong time to run | 10:30 |
| SteveA | hi | 10:30 |
| ddaa | SteveA: hello, the meeting just ended. | 10:30 |
| spiv | ddaa: good work making that pass :) | 10:30 |
| SteveA | sorry I'm later | 10:30 |
| === SteveA reads scrollback | ||
| spiv | ddaa: is there an ETA for when I can "bzr branch https://launchpad.net/products/twisted"? :) | 10:31 |
| ddaa | spiv: it looks like all the planets are properly aligned for the end of THIS week :) | 10:31 |
| SteveA | so, svn imports issue is being fixed, via an upgrade of importd machines to dapper | 10:31 |
| spiv | ddaa: sweet. Thanks! | 10:31 |
| ddaa | I pretty much ran out of undiagnosed failures to find new bugs. | 10:32 |
| ddaa | (not that it means anything, there are still a bunch of of svn imports that are testfailed, but it's a good omen) | 10:32 |
| ddaa | SteveA: yes, saturday elmo said that Znarl would do the upgrade today if I ask him. | 10:32 |
| SteveA | ok, great | 10:33 |
| SteveA | and I didn't quite understand about python and silva | 10:34 |
| SteveA | are those waiting on the upgrade? | 10:34 |
| ddaa | yes | 10:34 |
| ddaa | they were both blocked on the partial-copy fix | 10:34 |
| ddaa | then blocked on the peg-revision fix (the one that requires the upgrade) | 10:34 |
| SteveA | ok | 10:36 |
| SteveA | thanks | 10:36 |
| ddaa | SteveA: anything else you wish to talk with me about? | 10:38 |
| SteveA | your plans for this week? | 10:38 |
| ddaa | rollout importd fixage to production | 10:38 |
| ddaa | reply to reviews | 10:38 |
| ddaa | start on launchpad UI fixage | 10:39 |
| SteveA | please do some help text for templates | 10:39 |
| SteveA | I'd like you to do the help text before doing any UI fixing | 10:39 |
| SteveA | just write help text for what is there, no matter how broken it is | 10:39 |
| ddaa | since I need to do the help texts, but I'd rather fix the most heinous misdesign instead of documenting them :) | 10:39 |
| SteveA | then, as the first step of fixing it, rewrite the help as a kind of test | 10:39 |
| SteveA | the help text is, say, three or four paragraphs max | 10:40 |
| ddaa | SteveA: do we have a way to see how the help text would look? | 10:40 |
| SteveA | it's not like it takes long to write | 10:40 |
| SteveA | I have a way. you will have a way later this week | 10:40 |
| ddaa | there's a quote about this | 10:40 |
| ddaa | "sorry this letter is so long, I did not have the time to make it short" | 10:40 |
| SteveA | then write 5 paragraphs | 10:41 |
| SteveA | it doesn't have to be good | 10:41 |
| SteveA | it just has to be *there* | 10:41 |
| ddaa | I hear you. | 10:41 |
| ddaa | I fear it's going to be painful to go this much against my instincts, but I hear you. | 10:41 |
| SteveA | so, let's see some help text land on RF today | 10:41 |
| SteveA | think of it as preparation for rewriting the help text | 10:42 |
| SteveA | also, think of it as showing how much you're improving the UI | 10:42 |
| ddaa | so, help text does not go through review? | 10:42 |
| ddaa | SteveA: be careful what you ask | 10:42 |
| SteveA | one way of doing that is to look at the before and after of the help text | 10:42 |
| SteveA | you can commit purely help text changes as rs=stevea | 10:42 |
| ddaa | if I write the help text to show up all the stuff I think needs fixing, it's going to be heinous :) | 10:42 |
| SteveA | just write it so that an average user with average requirements can use the page | 10:43 |
| ddaa | okay, I'll try to do one page today | 10:43 |
| SteveA | if you like, do one page, and ping me for feedback | 10:43 |
| SteveA | up to you | 10:43 |
| ddaa | priorities for today: importd rollout, daily email, help text, meeting summary | 10:44 |
| SteveA | do the help text before your daily email | 10:44 |
| SteveA | jsut get it done! | 10:44 |
| ddaa | okay | 10:44 |
| SteveA | anything to get you through it | 10:44 |
| SteveA | once it is there, it is so much easier to change | 10:44 |
| ddaa | "haaaaaa, so THAT is what this form is about, I would have never guessed!" | 10:45 |
| === ddaa chuckles | ||
| === SteveA_ [n=steve@costello.z3u.com] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
| === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting | ||
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