[10:00] <ddaa> Good morning folks
[10:00] <ddaa> This the Launchpad-Bazaar integration meeting.
[10:01] <ddaa> == Agenda ==
[10:01] <ddaa> Next meeting Monday 27 November, 09:00-09:45 UTC.
[10:01] <ddaa> Next week is the allhands meeting, so at this time we'll all be busy recovering from jetlag.
[10:01] <ddaa> Following week ddaa is on leave.
[10:01] <ddaa> There can be a meeting on November 20th if somebody else wants to chair it.
[10:01] <ddaa>  * production status
[10:01] <ddaa>  * status reports
[10:01] <ddaa> == Roll call ==
[10:01] <ddaa> _thumper_ is on leave until start of December.
[10:01] <spiv> I'm here.
[10:01] <jamesh> here.
[10:01] <spiv> lifeless is at UDS, I think?
[10:02] <jamesh> yeah
[10:02] <ddaa> I gathered that much.
[10:02] <ddaa> poolie? Is he at UDS too?
[10:02] <spiv> No, he's in Sydney.
[10:03] <ddaa> SteveA: ping?
[10:04] <ddaa> So... I take it none of you want to chair the meeting on Nov. 20?
[10:05] <ddaa> Apparently no. Moving on then.
[10:05] <ddaa> poolie missing
[10:05] <ddaa> SteveA silent
[10:05] <ddaa> == Production status ==
[10:05] <ddaa> New rollouts or production problems.
[10:05] <spiv> poolie missing, presumed fed. ;)
[10:05] <ddaa> Wednesday, uncovered a new critical bug in svn support of svn
[10:06] <ddaa> fix was blocked on new pysvn on importd systems
[10:06] <ddaa> was some miscommunication with elmo about upgrading the importd systems to Dapper
[10:06] <ddaa> upgrade should occur today without further ado
[10:06] <spiv> That's good news.
[10:06] <ddaa> Then I'll rollout all the svn import goodness I've been working on for a few weeks.
[10:07] <jamesh> great.
[10:07] <ddaa> althought essentially all of it is still in or pending reviews :(
[10:07] <ddaa> spiv: jamesh: any news on production from you?
[10:07] <jamesh> nope.
[10:08] <spiv> Nope.
[10:08] <ddaa> jamesh: so, did stub set-up PRF to run periodically?
[10:08] <jamesh> ddaa: yep
[10:08] <ddaa> what frequency?
[10:08] <jamesh> not sure.  Probably daily
[10:08] <ddaa> okay
[10:08] <jamesh> but I can find out specifically if you want
[10:09] <ddaa> Not important, just want everybody to be able to answer this question :)
[10:09] <ddaa> "periodically, probably daily" is good enough :)
[10:09] <ddaa> Moving on.
[10:09] <ddaa> == Status reports ==
[10:09] <ddaa>  * spiv: supermirror-smart-server.
[10:09] <ddaa>  * jamesh: spec-branches.
[10:09] <ddaa>  * ddaa: python import.
[10:09] <spiv> Nothing to report :/
[10:10] <jamesh> spec-branches is in the review queue
[10:10] <jamesh> based on the workflow ddaa described to me
[10:10] <ddaa> spiv: is that because you are very busy with something else, or is this because you are blocked?
[10:10] <spiv> ddaa: because I'm busy.
[10:11] <spiv> There's nothing blocking me from working on it, except for other work :)
[10:11] <ddaa> python import: passed in autotest, will go through the motions to make it happen in production after the dapper upgrade
[10:11] <ddaa> so, the import will happen w/o renames support
[10:12] <ddaa> but considering how work is piling up, I do not think it's wise to delay it further.
[10:12] <ddaa> jamesh: good news
[10:12] <ddaa> spiv: care to expand on what's keeping you so busy, I'm just curious.
[10:12] <ddaa>  * ddaa: pyrex.
[10:12] <ddaa>  * poolie: bzr-lp features.
[10:13] <ddaa> pyrex: the branches were put in SteveA's review queue, I did not hear anything from SteveA about them.
[10:14] <spiv> ddaa: launchpad reviews, work on bzr smart server itself (getting unmerged stuff merged, making it as ready as possible for others to work on improving it)
[10:14] <ddaa> bzr-lp features: we had an action last week to garden the launchpad-bazaar specs
[10:14] <ddaa> who actually came around to look at the specs?
[10:14] <ddaa> I did not.
[10:15] <jamesh> I didn't get round to it either
[10:15] <ddaa> spiv: you also had an action last week to follow up on bzr-webserve deployment on devpad with the sysadmins
[10:16] <spiv> I haven't gardened specs, because I'm still waiting to hear from poolie that the new specs from Singapore have been added before I do.
[10:16] <ddaa> spiv: that's good to know, we should do the same :)
[10:16] <spiv> I haven't followed up with the sysadmins :(
[10:17] <spiv> I'll do that after the meeting via RT.
[10:17] <jamesh> spiv: there seems to be a bunch of new registered specs without actual specification text ...
[10:17] <ddaa> spiv: just think how excited kiko would get if he had it
[10:17] <ddaa> he would be like a 10 years old with a new toy
[10:18] <spiv> ddaa: :)
[10:19] <spiv> ddaa: actually, I think he'll be like "huh?" when he sees the slightly obtuse UI of the webserve plugin... I guess we'll find out :)
[10:19] <ddaa> *shrug* well, then he can fix it :)
[10:19] <ddaa> = Any other business? =
[10:20] <ddaa> One from me:
[10:20] <spiv> jamesh: that's probably a good idea.  Any idea what that would involve?
[10:20] <spiv> jamesh: (just briefly, so we don't get too off-topic)
[10:20] <jamesh> spiv: it supports two revision control systems, so there is some level of abstraction in there
[10:20] <ddaa> so, it seems we got agreement on cscvs, I just need to slap some consistent copyright notices on the Canonical code and get the thing out there with an official name != csvs (e.g. launchpad-cscvs).
[10:21] <ddaa> I will go with gplv2+later because apparently nobody in the management really cares
[10:21] <jamesh> ddaa: GPL sounds fine to me -- usually people are interested in the output of the code more than the code itself
[10:21] <spiv> jamesh: ok, so it sounds like you know about as much as I do about viewvc.  Fair enough :)
[10:21] <jamesh> and it is clear that cscvs's output isn't a derivative product of the code itself.
[10:21] <ddaa> jamesh: well, there's this whole debate about gplv2 or gplv2+...
[10:22] <jamesh> spiv: I've done a bit of work on it a few years ago (I have commit access)
[10:22] <ddaa> but since it's an entirely one sided debate, with me being the only side, the conclusion is easy :)
[10:22] <spiv> ddaa: I'd default to the GPL as the FSF wrote it (i.e. v2+) unless you have a reason not to.
[10:23] <jamesh> ddaa: gplv2 only would likely cause problems if we want to do GPL3 later on
[10:23] <spiv> jamesh: Ah, ok
[10:24] <ddaa> Any other business from you guys?
[10:24] <spiv> Not from me.
[10:24] <jamesh> spiv: anyway, once ddaa's SVN fixes are landed, hopefully I can get a bzr import of viewvc to hack on :)
[10:24] <spiv> jamesh: :)
[10:24] <ddaa> jamesh: there are still three big known issues with the svn stuff
[10:24] <ddaa> 1. externals must be thoroughly ignored, otherwise we get a validation failure at the end
[10:25] <spiv> I'm still waiting for a Twisted import, but I assume that squishing other bugs is bringing that closer slowly.
[10:25] <ddaa> 2. names that contain a char that needs to be uri-encoded cause cscvs to barf
[10:25] <ddaa> 3. it's doing umpteem bazillion connections and needs a really stable server on the other hand
[10:25] <ddaa> spiv: btw, congrats on the stability of the twisted svn server it's impressive
[10:26] <ddaa> So, meeting closed by default.
[10:26] <spiv> ddaa: I have nothing to do with that, I'm happy to say :)
[10:27] <spiv> (or with trac, which is proving to be extremely unreliable on twistedmatrix.com)
[10:28] <ddaa> spiv: considering how large the twisted import is, and how slowly it went, I never expected it to pass autotest so easily...
[10:28] <jamesh> trac doesn't seem to scale to moderate-large projects
[10:29] <spiv> jamesh: it will be interesting to see how it goes for Python then...
[10:29] <jamesh> spiv: well, all we need is a trac -> LP importer ...
[10:30] <ddaa> trac is quite rich I gather
[10:30] <spiv> ddaa: Hmm, I didn't realise it had passed auto testing!
[10:30] <ddaa> spiv: it just takes a loooooong time to run
[10:30] <SteveA> hi
[10:30] <ddaa> SteveA: hello, the meeting just ended.
[10:30] <spiv> ddaa: good work making that pass :)
[10:30] <SteveA> sorry I'm later
[10:31] <spiv> ddaa: is there an ETA for when I can "bzr branch https://launchpad.net/products/twisted"? :)
[10:31] <ddaa> spiv: it looks like all the planets are properly aligned for the end of THIS week :)
[10:31] <SteveA> so, svn imports issue is being fixed, via an upgrade of importd machines to dapper
[10:31] <spiv> ddaa: sweet.  Thanks!
[10:32] <ddaa> I pretty much ran out of undiagnosed failures to find new bugs.
[10:32] <ddaa> (not that it means anything, there are still a bunch of of svn imports that are testfailed, but it's a good omen)
[10:32] <ddaa> SteveA: yes, saturday elmo said that Znarl would do the upgrade today if I ask him.
[10:33] <SteveA> ok, great
[10:34] <SteveA> and I didn't quite understand about python and silva
[10:34] <SteveA> are those waiting on the upgrade?
[10:34] <ddaa> yes
[10:34] <ddaa> they were both blocked on the partial-copy fix
[10:34] <ddaa> then blocked on the peg-revision fix (the one that requires the upgrade)
[10:36] <SteveA> ok
[10:36] <SteveA> thanks
[10:38] <ddaa> SteveA: anything else you wish to talk with me about?
[10:38] <SteveA> your plans for this week?
[10:38] <ddaa> rollout importd fixage to production
[10:38] <ddaa> reply to reviews
[10:39] <ddaa> start on launchpad UI fixage
[10:39] <SteveA> please do some help text for templates
[10:39] <SteveA> I'd like you to do the help text before doing any UI fixing
[10:39] <SteveA> just write help text for what is there, no matter how broken it is
[10:39] <ddaa> since I need to do the help texts, but I'd rather fix the most heinous misdesign instead of documenting them :)
[10:39] <SteveA> then, as the first step of fixing it, rewrite the help as a kind of test
[10:40] <SteveA> the help text is, say, three or four paragraphs max
[10:40] <ddaa> SteveA: do we have a way to see how the help text would look?
[10:40] <SteveA> it's not like it takes long to write
[10:40] <SteveA> I have a way.  you will have a way later this week
[10:40] <ddaa> there's a quote about this
[10:40] <ddaa> "sorry this letter is so long, I did not have the time to make it short"
[10:41] <SteveA> then write 5 paragraphs
[10:41] <SteveA> it doesn't have to be good
[10:41] <SteveA> it just has to be *there*
[10:41] <ddaa> I hear you.
[10:41] <ddaa> I fear it's going to be painful to go this much against my instincts, but I hear you.
[10:41] <SteveA> so, let's see some help text land on RF today
[10:42] <SteveA> think of it as preparation for rewriting the help text
[10:42] <SteveA> also, think of it as showing how much you're improving the UI
[10:42] <ddaa> so, help text does not go through review?
[10:42] <ddaa> SteveA: be careful what you ask
[10:42] <SteveA> one way of doing that is to look at the before and after of the help text
[10:42] <SteveA> you can commit purely help text changes as rs=stevea
[10:42] <ddaa> if I write the help text to show up all the stuff I think needs fixing, it's going to be heinous :)
[10:43] <SteveA> just write it so that an average user with average requirements can use the page
[10:43] <ddaa> okay, I'll try to do one page today
[10:43] <SteveA> if you like, do one page, and ping me for feedback
[10:43] <SteveA> up to you
[10:44] <ddaa> priorities for today: importd rollout, daily email, help text, meeting summary
[10:44] <SteveA> do the help text before your daily email
[10:44] <SteveA> jsut get it done!
[10:44] <ddaa> okay
[10:44] <SteveA> anything to get you through it
[10:44] <SteveA> once it is there, it is so much easier to change
[10:45] <ddaa> "haaaaaa, so THAT is what this form is about, I would have never guessed!"