=== ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting === spiv [n=andrew@218-214-66-203.people.net.au] has joined #launchpad-meeting [10:00] Good morning folks [10:00] This the Launchpad-Bazaar integration meeting. [10:01] == Agenda == [10:01] Next meeting Monday 27 November, 09:00-09:45 UTC. [10:01] Next week is the allhands meeting, so at this time we'll all be busy recovering from jetlag. [10:01] Following week ddaa is on leave. [10:01] There can be a meeting on November 20th if somebody else wants to chair it. [10:01] * production status [10:01] * status reports [10:01] == Roll call == [10:01] _thumper_ is on leave until start of December. [10:01] I'm here. [10:01] here. [10:01] lifeless is at UDS, I think? [10:02] yeah [10:02] I gathered that much. [10:02] poolie? Is he at UDS too? [10:02] No, he's in Sydney. [10:03] SteveA: ping? [10:04] So... I take it none of you want to chair the meeting on Nov. 20? [10:05] Apparently no. Moving on then. [10:05] poolie missing [10:05] SteveA silent [10:05] == Production status == [10:05] New rollouts or production problems. [10:05] poolie missing, presumed fed. ;) [10:05] Wednesday, uncovered a new critical bug in svn support of svn [10:06] fix was blocked on new pysvn on importd systems [10:06] was some miscommunication with elmo about upgrading the importd systems to Dapper [10:06] upgrade should occur today without further ado [10:06] That's good news. [10:06] Then I'll rollout all the svn import goodness I've been working on for a few weeks. [10:07] great. [10:07] althought essentially all of it is still in or pending reviews :( [10:07] spiv: jamesh: any news on production from you? [10:07] nope. [10:08] Nope. [10:08] jamesh: so, did stub set-up PRF to run periodically? [10:08] ddaa: yep [10:08] what frequency? [10:08] not sure. Probably daily [10:08] okay [10:08] but I can find out specifically if you want [10:09] Not important, just want everybody to be able to answer this question :) [10:09] "periodically, probably daily" is good enough :) [10:09] Moving on. [10:09] == Status reports == [10:09] * spiv: supermirror-smart-server. [10:09] * jamesh: spec-branches. [10:09] * ddaa: python import. [10:09] Nothing to report :/ [10:10] spec-branches is in the review queue [10:10] based on the workflow ddaa described to me [10:10] spiv: is that because you are very busy with something else, or is this because you are blocked? [10:10] ddaa: because I'm busy. [10:11] There's nothing blocking me from working on it, except for other work :) [10:11] python import: passed in autotest, will go through the motions to make it happen in production after the dapper upgrade [10:11] so, the import will happen w/o renames support [10:12] but considering how work is piling up, I do not think it's wise to delay it further. [10:12] jamesh: good news [10:12] spiv: care to expand on what's keeping you so busy, I'm just curious. [10:12] * ddaa: pyrex. [10:12] * poolie: bzr-lp features. [10:13] pyrex: the branches were put in SteveA's review queue, I did not hear anything from SteveA about them. [10:14] ddaa: launchpad reviews, work on bzr smart server itself (getting unmerged stuff merged, making it as ready as possible for others to work on improving it) [10:14] bzr-lp features: we had an action last week to garden the launchpad-bazaar specs [10:14] who actually came around to look at the specs? [10:14] I did not. [10:15] I didn't get round to it either [10:15] spiv: you also had an action last week to follow up on bzr-webserve deployment on devpad with the sysadmins [10:16] I haven't gardened specs, because I'm still waiting to hear from poolie that the new specs from Singapore have been added before I do. [10:16] spiv: that's good to know, we should do the same :) [10:16] I haven't followed up with the sysadmins :( [10:17] I'll do that after the meeting via RT. [10:17] spiv: there seems to be a bunch of new registered specs without actual specification text ... [10:17] spiv: just think how excited kiko would get if he had it [10:17] he would be like a 10 years old with a new toy [10:18] ddaa: :) === ddaa mumbles something about launchpad specification wanking abuse [10:19] ddaa: actually, I think he'll be like "huh?" when he sees the slightly obtuse UI of the webserve plugin... I guess we'll find out :) [10:19] *shrug* well, then he can fix it :) === jamesh wouldn't mind getting bzr support into viewvc [10:19] = Any other business? = [10:20] One from me: [10:20] jamesh: that's probably a good idea. Any idea what that would involve? [10:20] jamesh: (just briefly, so we don't get too off-topic) [10:20] spiv: it supports two revision control systems, so there is some level of abstraction in there [10:20] so, it seems we got agreement on cscvs, I just need to slap some consistent copyright notices on the Canonical code and get the thing out there with an official name != csvs (e.g. launchpad-cscvs). [10:21] I will go with gplv2+later because apparently nobody in the management really cares [10:21] ddaa: GPL sounds fine to me -- usually people are interested in the output of the code more than the code itself [10:21] jamesh: ok, so it sounds like you know about as much as I do about viewvc. Fair enough :) [10:21] and it is clear that cscvs's output isn't a derivative product of the code itself. [10:21] jamesh: well, there's this whole debate about gplv2 or gplv2+... [10:22] spiv: I've done a bit of work on it a few years ago (I have commit access) [10:22] but since it's an entirely one sided debate, with me being the only side, the conclusion is easy :) [10:22] ddaa: I'd default to the GPL as the FSF wrote it (i.e. v2+) unless you have a reason not to. [10:23] ddaa: gplv2 only would likely cause problems if we want to do GPL3 later on [10:23] jamesh: Ah, ok [10:24] Any other business from you guys? [10:24] Not from me. [10:24] spiv: anyway, once ddaa's SVN fixes are landed, hopefully I can get a bzr import of viewvc to hack on :) [10:24] jamesh: :) [10:24] jamesh: there are still three big known issues with the svn stuff [10:24] 1. externals must be thoroughly ignored, otherwise we get a validation failure at the end [10:25] I'm still waiting for a Twisted import, but I assume that squishing other bugs is bringing that closer slowly. [10:25] 2. names that contain a char that needs to be uri-encoded cause cscvs to barf [10:25] 3. it's doing umpteem bazillion connections and needs a really stable server on the other hand [10:25] spiv: btw, congrats on the stability of the twisted svn server it's impressive [10:26] So, meeting closed by default. [10:26] ddaa: I have nothing to do with that, I'm happy to say :) [10:27] (or with trac, which is proving to be extremely unreliable on twistedmatrix.com) [10:28] spiv: considering how large the twisted import is, and how slowly it went, I never expected it to pass autotest so easily... [10:28] trac doesn't seem to scale to moderate-large projects [10:29] jamesh: it will be interesting to see how it goes for Python then... [10:29] spiv: well, all we need is a trac -> LP importer ... [10:30] trac is quite rich I gather [10:30] ddaa: Hmm, I didn't realise it had passed auto testing! [10:30] spiv: it just takes a loooooong time to run [10:30] hi [10:30] SteveA: hello, the meeting just ended. [10:30] ddaa: good work making that pass :) [10:30] sorry I'm later === SteveA reads scrollback [10:31] ddaa: is there an ETA for when I can "bzr branch https://launchpad.net/products/twisted"? :) [10:31] spiv: it looks like all the planets are properly aligned for the end of THIS week :) [10:31] so, svn imports issue is being fixed, via an upgrade of importd machines to dapper [10:31] ddaa: sweet. Thanks! [10:32] I pretty much ran out of undiagnosed failures to find new bugs. [10:32] (not that it means anything, there are still a bunch of of svn imports that are testfailed, but it's a good omen) [10:32] SteveA: yes, saturday elmo said that Znarl would do the upgrade today if I ask him. [10:33] ok, great [10:34] and I didn't quite understand about python and silva [10:34] are those waiting on the upgrade? [10:34] yes [10:34] they were both blocked on the partial-copy fix [10:34] then blocked on the peg-revision fix (the one that requires the upgrade) [10:36] ok [10:36] thanks [10:38] SteveA: anything else you wish to talk with me about? [10:38] your plans for this week? [10:38] rollout importd fixage to production [10:38] reply to reviews [10:39] start on launchpad UI fixage [10:39] please do some help text for templates [10:39] I'd like you to do the help text before doing any UI fixing [10:39] just write help text for what is there, no matter how broken it is [10:39] since I need to do the help texts, but I'd rather fix the most heinous misdesign instead of documenting them :) [10:39] then, as the first step of fixing it, rewrite the help as a kind of test [10:40] the help text is, say, three or four paragraphs max [10:40] SteveA: do we have a way to see how the help text would look? [10:40] it's not like it takes long to write [10:40] I have a way. you will have a way later this week [10:40] there's a quote about this [10:40] "sorry this letter is so long, I did not have the time to make it short" [10:41] then write 5 paragraphs [10:41] it doesn't have to be good [10:41] it just has to be *there* [10:41] I hear you. [10:41] I fear it's going to be painful to go this much against my instincts, but I hear you. [10:41] so, let's see some help text land on RF today [10:42] think of it as preparation for rewriting the help text [10:42] also, think of it as showing how much you're improving the UI [10:42] so, help text does not go through review? [10:42] SteveA: be careful what you ask [10:42] one way of doing that is to look at the before and after of the help text [10:42] you can commit purely help text changes as rs=stevea [10:42] if I write the help text to show up all the stuff I think needs fixing, it's going to be heinous :) [10:43] just write it so that an average user with average requirements can use the page [10:43] okay, I'll try to do one page today [10:43] if you like, do one page, and ping me for feedback [10:43] up to you [10:44] priorities for today: importd rollout, daily email, help text, meeting summary [10:44] do the help text before your daily email [10:44] jsut get it done! [10:44] okay [10:44] anything to get you through it [10:44] once it is there, it is so much easier to change [10:45] "haaaaaa, so THAT is what this form is about, I would have never guessed!" === ddaa chuckles === SteveA_ [n=steve@costello.z3u.com] has joined #launchpad-meeting === ddaa [n=ddaa@nor75-18-82-241-238-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #launchpad-meeting