[12:26] <BjornT> kiko: ping
[12:26] <kiko> BjornT!
[03:04] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70828 in blueprint "Need a way to export a list of people that say they are attending a sprint." [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70828
[03:18] <carlos> kiko-afk: you suck!
[03:19] <carlos> kiko-afk: if you are around, I would like to schedule a brief meeting about 'suggestions from another language' selector GET vs. POST
[03:20] <lifeless> carlos: non-mutation should be get :)
[03:21] <carlos> lifeless: but not adding useless vars to the URL....
[03:21] <carlos> field.alternative_language=cy&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&select_alternate_language=Change
[03:21] <carlos> vs
[03:22] <carlos> field.alternative_language=cy
[03:22] <carlos> lifeless: anyway, mpt gave me a good reason to have that as a POST
[03:22] <carlos> if you are translating something and decide to see suggestions for another language
[03:23] <carlos> if it's a GET, you lose your unsaved translations
[03:23] <carlos> if it's a POST, you don't
[03:24] <carlos> more about this tomorrow....
[03:45] <kiko-afk> I don't care if it's a get or a post
[03:45] <kiko-afk> but a get is a lot simpler to implement
[03:45] <kiko-afk> and the post was implemented in an overly complicated way
[04:33] <LaserLine>  I'm trying to create a key for launchpad using gpg --send-key key-id (key-id = xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx <-my key) but when I do that it says gpg: "xxxx" not a key ID: skipping
[04:36] <jamesh> LaserLine: don't include spaces
[04:39] <kiko> LaserLine, the key-id can also be the shorter form
[04:39] <kiko> hey jamesh 
[04:39] <kiko> how's it going
[04:39] <jamesh> good.
[04:39] <kiko> looking forward to the jet lag?
[04:39] <jamesh> are you at UDS?
[04:40] <jamesh> not particularly
[04:40] <kiko> not yet.
[04:40] <jamesh> at least I don't have to transfer inside the US ...
[04:40] <kiko> I'm in minnesota
[04:40] <kiko> but will be in SFO on sunday
[04:41] <kiko> looking forward to seeing you there too!
[04:42] <jamesh> so, there is a possibility that the timezone data in Launchpad will be out of date for Western Australia on December 3rd
[04:42] <jamesh> we may or may not be switching to daylight saving time then.
[04:42] <kiko> what do you mean?
[04:42] <kiko> haven't you decided?
[04:42] <jamesh> the government hasn't decided yet
[04:43] <jamesh> but they will decide before December 3rd
[04:43] <kiko> just like brazil in a way
[04:44] <jamesh> actually, it looks like they have decided
[04:46] <jamesh> the last time we had daylight saving was 1992
[04:49] <kiko> wow
[04:50] <kiko> I did not know that!
[04:50] <kiko> jamesh, so pytz, does it use the system timezone information?
[04:51] <kiko> jamesh, if so, we need tz-brasil!
[04:51] <kiko> and a port of tz-brasil to tz-au or whatever
[04:51] <jamesh> kiko: nope.  But it is built from the same data (the Olsen timezone database)
[04:52] <kiko> that's not good
[04:52] <kiko> because tz-brasil doesn't know about it
[04:52] <jamesh> kiko: when a new tzdata version is released, pytz can be updated mechanically
[04:52] <kiko> and that means it's already wrong for brazil.
[04:52] <jamesh> tz-brazil?
[04:53] <kiko> tz-brasil
[04:53] <kiko> we change the dates every year
[04:53] <kiko> the scientists decide what day it will be
[04:54] <jamesh> kiko: looking at pytz, Brazil/East has DST transition dates up to 2037
[04:55] <kiko> all wrong
[04:55] <jamesh> really?
[04:55] <kiko> of course! we don't know the dates for 2007.. let alone 2037.
[04:55] <jamesh> they are different for almost every year
[04:55] <kiko> they are different every year. 
[04:55] <jamesh> how do the scientists decide?
[04:56] <kiko> they study their books of runes in ivory towers
[04:56] <jamesh> haha
[04:56] <kiko> seriously, I have some text in portuguese
[04:56] <jamesh> kiko: look at lib/pytz/zoneinfo/Brazil/East.py for example
[04:57] <kiko> so it's wrong for 2006, of course
[04:57] <kiko> since the date of change was 2006-11-03
[04:57] <LaserLine> I downloaded the code of conduct did steps 1-4 to add the signature, then copy/paste the asc file, but it says No Public Key
[04:58] <kiko> I have no idea how that file was generated
[04:58] <kiko> but it wasn't by the scientists, I assure you
[05:02] <kiko> jamesh: http://www.mme.gov.br/site/news/detail.do;jsessionid=D3CD601767867DC7507196DEC89E75F4?newsId=10740
[05:06] <jamesh> kiko: in previous referendums on daylight saving, the usual complaints were brought up: It'll fade the curtains.  The cows will get confused if we start milking them one hour earlier, etc.
[05:06] <kiko> LaserLine, what's yoour key id?
[05:06] <kiko> jamesh, you know my dad said he saw an interview with an old lady in the 1960s and she said it faded the curtains
[05:06] <kiko> I find that a fascinating answer
[05:06] <kiko> because you can't really argue it fades the curtains significantly more
[05:06] <jamesh> kiko: what do you expect, if the government adds an extra hour of daylight?
[05:07] <kiko> the cows may get upset but only once
[05:07] <LaserLine> kiko: C8489D24E11EC63D10FC08492675B89931F93478
[05:08] <kiko> eric pritchett
[05:08] <kiko> pleased to meet you
[05:08] <LaserLine> you too
[05:08] <kiko> LaserLine, can I see the file you are trying to upload?
[05:08] <jamesh> LaserLine: so what was the exact message gpg gave you when you tried to decrypt the file?
[05:08] <kiko> decrypt?
[05:08] <jamesh> oh.  You
[05:08] <jamesh> 've already done that part
[05:10] <kiko> jamesh, about the curtains, you could argue that because days are longer people will put the curtains up for a longer period of time
[05:11] <jamesh> kiko: I'd prefer not to have daylight saving, actually
[05:11] <kiko> it's less confusing
[05:11] <kiko> for everybody
[05:11] <jamesh> I'm all for illogical arguments if they get DST voted down
[05:11] <kiko> blame the germans
[05:11] <jamesh> but this time it is a 3 year trial
[05:12] <kiko> well there are some environmental benefits
[05:12] <kiko> but probably negligible if compared to how much we'd save if women didn't use blow dryers.
[05:13] <kiko> I wonder when the blow dryer was invented in fact
[05:13] <kiko> 1920s
[05:17] <kiko> jamesh, there is an interesting tie-in between DST and christmas in countries in the southern hemisphere
[05:18] <kiko> because industry ramps up production close to christmas
[05:18] <kiko> and electricity consumption is peak
[05:30] <jamesh> kiko: so, it looks like there are a number of Brazil updates to tzdata that we're probably missing in LP's pytz
[05:31] <jamesh> maybe we should switch all time display over to Swatch(tm) Internet Time
[05:46] <kiko> jamesh, yeah. could pytz not be made to use the system tzdata?
[05:48] <jamesh> kiko: probably.
[05:49] <kiko> good answer.
[05:49] <jamesh> well, the Python source files for each of the time zones are generated from the same data as the binary zoneinfo files libc uses
[05:50] <jamesh> so it should be possible to get equivalent functionality by parsing the binary zoneinfo files
[05:52] <kiko> I guess yes
[05:58] <kiko-zzz> it's not a big deal but would be nice to fix.
[05:58] <kiko-zzz> nicer still would be a formatter based on the bug 929 work :-)
[05:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 929 in launchpad "Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/929
[05:58] <kiko-zzz> night
[07:32] <LaserLine> Why is it that when I cut/paste my signed Code of Conduct page it says No Public Key
[07:36] <jamesh> LaserLine: are you pasting everything including the "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----" and "-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----" lines?
[07:36] <LaserLine> jamesh: yes
[07:37] <jamesh> if you run "gpg --verify filename" locally, can it verify the file?
[07:38] <LaserLine> jamesh: it says it's good
[07:48] <jamesh> LaserLine: could you paste the entire signed message at http://rafb.net/paste/ and give me the URL?
[07:50] <LaserLine> jamesh: http://rafb.net/paste/results/NujfuC91.html
[07:53] <jamesh> gpg: Signature made Wed 08 Nov 2006 14:30:04 WST using DSA key ID A5DA148E
[07:53] <jamesh> you haven't registered that key with Launchpad according to https://launchpad.net/people/eric-eboxstudios
[07:54] <jamesh> so, either upload that key too, or make the signature with your 31F93478 key
[07:56] <jamesh> you can use "gpg -u 31F93478 --clearsign codeofconduct.txt", which should select the right key
[08:02] <jamesh> LaserLine: does that help?
[08:10] <LaserLine> jamesh: thanks everything worked
[08:11] <jamesh> LaserLine: if you accidentally generated a second key, you can delete it with "gpg --delete-secret-key"
[08:11] <jamesh> (don't do that if you are actually using the second key though)
[08:35] <Jozo-> Bug activity page says that I've touched bug, but I didn't. Is something weird going on? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/25786/+activity
[08:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 25786 in kdebase "Konqueror crashes everytime when started, gives signal 11 (SIGSEGV)" [Medium,Needs info]  
[08:38] <jamesh> Jozo-: so you didn't set the bug to needs info?
[08:42] <Jozo-> jamesh: No, I haven't touch that bug at all or At least I can't remember that I've done something like that. See actual bug and those comments. There written by someone else.
[08:42] <jamesh> Jozo-: the only thing the activity log records you doing is changing the status of the bug to needs info
[08:43] <jamesh> Jozo-: the "status explanation" records the comment left the last time the task was updated (status, importance, milestone, assignee)
[08:44] <jamesh> Jozo-: the other activity log entry attributed to you clears the status explanation, which is consistent with updating the task without leaving a comment
[08:44] <jamesh> note the "old value" and "new value" column headings
[08:47] <Jozo> jamesh: Ah, I see. My mail archives misses that somehow. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugs/2006-October/304659.html says that I've done this change. 
[08:56] <Jozo> Bug activity page should give more information and be more clear. 
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70855 in launchpad "Ubuntu mirror 'Details page' reports 'one week behind' when mirror is up to date" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70855
[11:12] <ddaa> BjornT: ping
[11:14] <SteveA> ddaa: a bit early for BjornT I would think
[11:14] <SteveA> seeing as he's at the conference
[11:14] <ddaa> ah
[11:15] <ddaa> Bah, I'll just cowboy cscvs/partial-copy in, then.
[11:15] <ddaa> The last review fix is a sweeping renaming, and it would be better as a separate branch, after cscvs/svn-copy-modify
[11:29] <jamesh> ddaa: it is possible that putting pqm_branch in locations.conf didn't work for you due to section shadowing.
[11:30] <jamesh> ddaa: the section shadowing problem is fixed in 0.12 though
[11:30] <ddaa> ohhh
[11:30] <ddaa> I'll try to remember to give it a try for the next merge :)
[11:32] <jamesh> anyway, hopefully we can get the config policies stuff in for 0.13
[12:53] <jonh_wendell> is lp site out?
[12:54] <matsubara> jonh_wendell: yes. the admins are checking what's going on
[12:54] <jonh_wendell> matsubara: thanks
[01:08] <SteveA> spiv: ping
[01:30] <cprov> SteveA: do you have a minute to check a help text I wrote ? https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileT9rYCd.html.
[01:30] <cprov> I think it's too long. 
[01:43] <SteveA> it may be a bit too long, but I think that's fine
[01:43] <SteveA> leave it in, and we can trim it later once we see it in the new ui
[02:03] <cprov> SteveA: ok, thanks
[03:30] <BjornT> ddaa: pong
[03:44] <ddaa> BjornT: nevermind
[03:45] <ddaa> I just merged partial-copy, and put up a new branch with the renamings
[04:02] <BjornT> ddaa: ok
[04:08] <lifeless> moin
[04:19] <ddaa> lifeless: morning
[04:23] <lifeless> heya
[05:24] <newz2000> I'm having a problem with staging.launchpad.net
[05:55] <kiko> hey!
[05:55] <kiko> stub the bane of cherrypicks!
[05:57] <kiko> hey matsubara 
[05:57] <matsubara> hi kiko
[05:57] <kiko> how's it going old boy
[05:57] <matsubara> freezing up there, kiko?
[05:58] <kiko> what was that support tracker bug you pointed to me today?
[05:58] <kiko> matsubara, no... lovely today, like 12C
[05:59] <matsubara> kiko: I didn't point it you to any support tracker bug today. they were malone and blueprint bugs.
[05:59] <kiko> matsubara, oh, it was a blueprint bug? can you remember the bug#?
[06:00] <matsubara> kiko: bugs 39420 3797
[06:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39420 in blueprint "Spec emails should include a footer giving the reason for the mail" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39420
[06:00] <matsubara> ubugtu bug 3797
[06:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3797 in malone "Bug mails should explain why the person is getting emailed." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3797
[06:07] <SteveA> hi stub.  let me know when you have 10 mins to talk about beta.lp
[06:09] <cprov> kiko: I almost forgot, could you, please, take a look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/cprov/launchpad/trivialities/full-diff ?  it was the patch done by elmo in sync-source some time ago.
[06:11] <kiko> sure.
[06:11] <malcc> Goooooooood morning launchpadders!
[06:16] <cprov> malcc: hi, any plan to sort out the conflicts in archive-rework and its children in a short-term ?
[06:17] <malcc> cprov: Sure
[06:17] <stub> bzr version-info --format=python
[06:18] <SteveA> stub: I shall add this to launchpad in general today.
[06:18] <stub> SteveA: You adding that to the main Makefile, and flagging the generated file as junk?
[06:18] <SteveA> something like that
[06:18] <cprov> malcc: then, what ? do you think you'll have time to fix them during the UDS ?
[06:18] <stub> Cool.
[06:19] <SteveA> then including it somewhere
[06:19] <malcc> cprov: Yes, I've been sorting them out regularly but maybe I forgot to sync my repo, it shouldn't take any time to fix
[06:19] <SteveA> maybe in the page footer to start with
[06:19] <stub> Just make sure it fails gracefully if bzr dies or is not installed
[06:19] <SteveA> willdo
[06:20] <cprov> malcc: good, thank you, let me know when you are done, I will do the "merge dance" in devpad
[06:20] <stub> SteveA: ping re beta
[06:20] <SteveA> ta
[06:33] <malcc> cprov: Conflicts sorted
[06:38] <cprov> malcc: thanks
[06:44] <stub> lifeless: I'll add a new prebuilt tree on devpad for beta.launchpad.net
[06:45] <lifeless> stub: ok
[06:53] <sivang> hi
[06:53] <sivang> can I remove a branch from my b.l.n branches home?
[06:53] <sivang> I am now pusing a new one, but a new dir
[06:53] <sivang> and I want to remove a previous one I had
[06:53] <sivang> this is the one I want to remove:
[06:53] <kiko> not sure you can, no
[06:53] <sivang> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sivan/hubackup/devel-main/
[06:54] <sivang> hey kiko dude
[06:54] <sivang> I see
[06:54] <sivang> and does ti still take a day as noted in the respective ddaa blog post for it to show on LP?
[06:54] <sivang> or can I work and continue pushing to it right away ? 
[07:15] <thiagocmartinsc> I want to rebuild Ubuntu Edgy - Server with my own packages, just like OEM provides.. but without X...
[07:16] <thiagocmartinsc> I know two solutions for creating a custom install CD, the project reconstructor and package oem-config... what is the best way to do this?
[07:17] <kiko> thiagocmartinsc, this is probably a question better asked in #ubuntu-devel
[07:18] <sivang> WOW
[07:18] <sivang> that was QUICK
[07:19] <kiko> sivang?
[07:20] <sivang> kiko: all details of brnach, including scanned revision are now there!
[07:20] <sivang> cool
[07:20] <kiko> sivang, ddaa's the man to thank he has put good hours into improving the branch scanner
[07:20] <kiko> and cscvs
[07:20] <lifeless> ~
[07:20] <lifeless> and jamesh :)
[07:21] <thiagocmartinsc> thanks kiko
[07:21] <kiko> welcome thiagocmartinsc 
[07:21] <lifeless> and the branch puller too 
[07:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70928 in launchpad "Unable to remove package -> upstream linkage" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70928
[07:49] <sivang> kiko: when are we going to be able to do bzr branch http://lp.net/products/hubackup and it shall just work? (although this can get ambigious if more then one branch are registered)
[07:49] <kiko> sivang, it already works.
[07:49] <kiko> lp.net doesn't work though
[07:49] <kiko> it has to be launchpad.net
[07:54] <ddaa> sivang: it already works for a branth page
[07:54] <ddaa> for a series pages it picks the associated bzr branch
[07:54] <ddaa> for a produtt page it picks the branch of the development-focus series
[08:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70934 in launchpad "Persistent sort of table columns" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70934
[08:06] <kiko> dupe
[08:14] <sivang> ddaa: how do I set a branch to be the development focus?
[08:15] <sivang> kiko: I wrote lp.net as a shortcut to launchpad.net ;)
[08:15] <kiko> heh
[08:23] <thiagocmartinsc> kiko,  my plan is to create a custom install CD, with my packages on it... and  on ubuntu-devel I can't get help...  how to put my own *.deb file into the "MY-ubuntu-6.10-server-i386.iso"
[08:23] <kiko> thiagocmartinsc, that's the right place to ask, though.
[08:23] <kiko> thiagocmartinsc, you can try #ubuntu-motu.
[08:25] <LaserJock> who do I need to poke for @ubuntu.com email redirect updates?
[08:25] <kiko> LaserJock, #canonical-sysadmin
[08:27] <jbailey> Heya!  Two questions.
[08:27] <lifeless> nononono
[08:27] <jbailey> For attaching bugs to upstream, I no longer see the option to pick an upstream bug tracker.
[08:27] <lifeless> that can be set in the upstream product in launchpad
[08:28] <jbailey> Can I generally expect that a random bugzilla URL will work?  I wanted to go register the oss.oracle.com bugzilla in there to make sure it worked.
[08:28] <jbailey> lifeless: It's a module in the kernel, does it support a one to many relationship?
[08:28] <lifeless> I dunno about where the old option has gone, but if the product is configured as 'uses other bugtracker', it all hooks together magically.
[08:28] <lifeless> BjornT: ^ ?
[08:29] <BjornT> jbailey: if you simply provide a bugzilla URL it should work, if the bugtracker is registered in launchpad
[08:30] <jbailey> BjornT: Right, it's that registration that I'm trying to do now.
[08:30] <BjornT> jbailey: if it isn't registered, you will be prompted to register it
[08:30] <jbailey> I guess I'm in the wrong place?
[08:30] <jbailey> I thought it was done at the time that I created the link.
[08:30] <BjornT> no, launchpad isn't that smart yet. you have to register it explicitly for now.
[08:31] <jbailey> Ah, okay.  I don't see it under https://launchpad.net/malone - Can you point me in the right direction?
[08:33] <kiko> jbailey, malone/bugtrackers
[08:33] <kiko> there's a RHS portlet
[08:33] <jbailey> kiko: Nice, thanks.
[08:33] <kiko> on /malone
[08:33] <jbailey> kiko: Oh, hmm.  My CSS sheet I think hides portlets occasionally.  I keep forgetting about it.
[08:34] <kiko> ...
[08:36] <jbailey> kiko: I find several of the portlets annoying and real-estate consuming, so I hide them.
[08:36] <jbailey> But I forget on the odd occasion where I'm doing something other than day-to-day use to unhide them.  My bad.
[08:38] <jbailey> kiko, BjornT: Thanks.
[08:38] <kiko> enjoy
[08:39] <jbailey> The second question is that linux-source-2.6.19 doesn't show up in the package list search for ubuntu.
[08:39] <jbailey> I'm wondering if something hasn't been turned on for feisty searches in the list?
[08:39] <kiko> jbailey, those searches aren't very reliable
[08:40] <ddaa> sivang: development focus of a product is a series
[08:40] <jbailey> kiko: Ah, okay.  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.19 does work.  Thanks.
[08:41] <ddaa> so you select the trunk series (it should already be the trunk series, by default)
[08:41] <kiko> jbailey, I need to fix them
[08:41] <ddaa> then you select the bzr branch you want in the series/+source page
[08:42] <jbailey> kiko: =)  I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a simple switch for "display feisty in launchpad" didn't need to be flipped.
[08:44] <mini> Hi, bug 3140 tells me I cannot remove an upstream tracker. 
[08:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3140 in malone "Bug watches can't be removed" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3140
[08:44] <mini> but can I even edit it?
[08:44] <mini> I chose the wrong product...
[08:45] <mini> see bug 63418
[08:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63418 in bugzilla "CPU soft lockup during bootup" [Unknown,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63418
[08:45] <kiko> you can edit it sure
[08:45] <mini> I can't see that 
[08:45] <mini> I want to edit the "Product" of the bug watch, but it's not editable
[08:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70950 in rosetta "Error when a line starts with _: and have format specification" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70950
[08:55] <mini> I'm really trying to change the bug watch product. Maybe this is really a bug in malone?
[08:56] <kiko> mini, mark it as "none" first.
[08:56] <kiko> then change it
[08:56] <kiko> it is a bug, yes
[08:56] <kiko> if you could file it..
[08:56] <kiko> the product should not be read-only
[08:57] <mini> kiko: changing it to  "none" does not help
[08:58] <carlos> kiko: do you have 5 minutes for me? (perhaps it will be 15...)
[08:58] <kiko> sure
[08:59] <carlos> kiko: about your change to use GET with alternative language selection
[08:59] <carlos> kiko: let me comment that the URL it produces suck a lot
[08:59] <carlos> the arguments are longer than the location URL... and it's already huge....
[08:59] <kiko> mini, hmm, that's indeed a real bug.
[08:59] <carlos> but anyway
[08:59] <kiko> mini, can you reject that task and open a new one?
[09:00] <carlos> kiko: I talked with mpt about it and he gave me an argument about why it should be a POST instead of a GET
[09:00] <kiko> carlos, I know. file a bug and we'll get to it eventually
[09:00] <carlos> and I think lifeless agrees on it
[09:00] <kiko> the existing code was a disaster
[09:00] <kiko> we should do it properly
[09:00] <kiko> forwarding the form elements there is something that needs to be done anyway
[09:00] <kiko> because there are multiple forms there
[09:00] <kiko> but doing it right is non-trivial
[09:01] <kiko> and not a priority
[09:01] <carlos> kiko: it should be a POST, because otherwise we would make the users lose translations if they choose the alternative language while they are preparing a translation.
[09:01] <kiko> to preserve translations we'd need to have the whole page be one single form
[09:01] <carlos> right
[09:01] <kiko> carlos, yes, there's an XXX I left in the code for that.
[09:01] <kiko> as I said, file a bug, we don't /need/ to fix this now, as it's really not a priority
[09:02] <carlos> ok, so we agree we should move back to a POST there (and preserve translations, we weren't doing it before your change, I know)
[09:02] <carlos> ok
[09:02] <kiko> carlos, we can move it back to post, yes, it would be nice to preserve changes there
[09:02] <carlos> it's just that I saw the scary URL yesterday, while playing with my local version and I got completely scared...
[09:02] <kiko> but not a high pri bug by any means
[09:02] <carlos> kiko: sure
[09:02] <kiko> yeah
[09:02] <kiko> the URLs suck there
[09:03] <kiko> they actually suck more now that I did that change
[09:03] <kiko> because they are field.foo and field.bar
[09:03] <kiko> but...
[09:03] <kiko> carlos, there's something to consider btw
[09:03] <carlos> kiko: is there a way to rename it?
[09:03] <kiko> and that's that clicking on the zoom-in zoom-out links also loses that information
[09:03] <kiko> carlos, not sure, BjornT might know.
[09:03] <carlos> so we can use our custom name instead of the autogenerated one?
[09:03] <carlos> ok
[09:04] <carlos> I will check it with him when we look into fix it
[09:04] <kiko> the zoom-in and out thing is also a wart
[09:04] <kiko> we could have the images be post buttons
[09:04] <kiko> and then submit the translations too
[09:04] <kiko> but it'd not be a fun thing to implement :-(
[09:04] <carlos> I have such feature already implemented
[09:04] <carlos> to copy translations
[09:05] <carlos> for TranslationReview
[09:05] <carlos> so I think the adaptation of that code to do what you suggest for zoom buttons should be quite trivial
[09:06] <kiko> maybe
[09:06] <kiko> maybe
[09:06] <kiko> salgado, ping?
[09:06] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+ticket/1576
[09:06] <kiko> salgado, how can that user have been emailed if he isn't active in launchpad?
[09:06] <kiko> salgado, via a mailing list?
[09:06] <salgado> crap
[09:07] <salgado> kiko, I cleaned my screen and lost your messages
[09:07] <kiko> sure
 salgado, ping?
 https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+ticket/1576
 salgado, how can that user have been emailed if he isn't active in launchpad?
 salgado, via a mailing list?
[09:08] <kiko> salgado, also
[09:08] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-audio-art
[09:08] <kiko> geoff newman is a member of this team
[09:08] <kiko> but his account is inactive
[09:08] <kiko> wtf?
[09:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70952 in malone "LookupError when a product adopt malone as its bugtracker and that product already have bugwatches." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70952
[09:10] <salgado> kiko, what can you see at https://launchpad.net/people/geoff-newman/+editemails ?
[09:14] <mini> kiko: ok, see bug 70953
[09:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70953 in malone "Cannot edit "Product" of remote bug watch" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70953
[09:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70953 in malone "Cannot edit "Product" of remote bug watch" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70953
[09:16] <stub> kiko: I set his email address to OLD
[09:18] <kiko> stub, oh. why?
[09:19] <stub> Because he is using some challenge response system that spams launchpad
[09:19] <kiko> stub, yeah, that's true. 
[09:19] <kiko> did you contact him first?
[09:20] <lamont> kiko: his spam solution doesn't scale...  specifically, it only works if no one you communicate with uses it.
[09:20] <kiko> heh
[09:20] <stub> Nope. That would involve using extremely irritating challenge response systems that my mail client deletes as spam
[09:20] <kiko> I don't disagree
[09:20] <lamont> rather, it doesn't work if the other side of a conversation uses it
[09:20] <kiko> I'm just saying that I'd have contacted him
[09:21] <lamont> kiko: how - stub's email deletes his challenge as spam, so no communication is possible.
[09:21] <kiko> lamont, stub's email doesn't necessarily need to delete it. and he could have asked me to contact him, if that was indeed the case.
[09:21] <lamont> stub: this is where you say "I sent him an email informing him of the issue" :-)
[09:22] <lamont> kiko: he clearly doesn't want email
[09:22] <kiko> ...
[09:22] <stub> I stopped being nice to users after my 5th year of having to support users. I changed careers after my 6th year.
[09:22] <lamont> :)
[09:24] <stub> Eventually we will have a bounce processor that will catch these bounces and disable email addresses automatically, so we can consider my current workflow a prototype.
[09:25] <lamont> kiko: make sure he understands that his spam solution is incompatible with launchpad usage....
[09:25] <kiko> he may well be unaware of that, which is exactly why I'm contacting him
[09:25] <lamont> right
[09:25] <kiko> stub, is the staging db all right?
[09:25] <lamont> also incompatible with anyone else silly enough to use that system
[09:27] <stub> kiko: It is updating. Taking time today due to a rollout failure last night.
[09:28] <stub> patch-67-30-0 is taking quite some time (first run against production data, so I don't know exactly how long)
[09:28] <kiko> ah, right
[09:28] <kiko> cool!
[09:28] <kiko> the timezone here makes it happen at an odd hour
[09:28] <kiko> for me
[09:29] <stub> Updates now require 3 hours less downtime
[09:29] <stub> But the downtime window will still be noticeable in cases like this one where the db patch takes non-trivial time to run
[09:31] <kiko> stub, I'm surprised it is non-trivial, but then again we /are/ adding a column to a VERY BIG TABLE
[09:33] <stub> Adding the column is near instantaneous. Adding values to the new column is what takes the time, as it writes 30 odd million new rows (and bloats the table accordingly...)
[09:33] <stub> I think there is a trigger on the table too, so that needs to be executed for each row even though it is just going to say 'I'm not interested - keep going'
[09:34] <kiko> stub, I found that we update rosettastatistics too often
[09:34] <kiko> not sure why we do it
[09:34] <carlos> kiko: you mean while we translate?
[09:35] <stub> rosettastatistics?
[09:35] <kiko> carlos, yes.
[09:35] <carlos> kiko: because it's the only way to know what's missing to be translated
[09:35] <carlos> we cannot run it as a cron task
[09:35] <kiko> carlos, mmmm,
[09:35] <kiko> really?
[09:35] <carlos> it's better that than raise more complex queries to see what's missing
[09:36] <carlos> to give feedback to the user
[09:36] <kiko> I don't understand
[09:36] <carlos> kiko: it would be quite confusing that we say '5 strings left to translate' but when you filter the messages to see the ones untranslated
[09:36] <carlos> you get none
[09:36] <kiko> hmmm
[09:36] <kiko> I see.
[09:36] <kiko> there might be better ways of doing that
[09:36] <carlos> that will produce a bunch of bug reports about not finding missing translations....
[09:36] <carlos> kiko: I don't think it's a bottle neck atm
[09:36] <kiko> no, /better/ ways :)
[09:37] <carlos> at least not with our current system
[09:37] <carlos> perhaps once we fix suggestions, it would became it...
[09:37] <kiko> carlos, I'm not sure myself. I think I looked into it and it had high overhead because it was locked by everybody submitting +translate
[09:37] <carlos> but anyway, we do it once per form submission
[09:37] <kiko> yes
[09:37] <carlos> why should it be a problem?
[09:37] <kiko> and it's a shared lock
[09:37] <kiko> because multiple users lock themselves out
[09:37] <kiko> as do double-posts
[09:37] <carlos> hmm
[09:38] <kiko> I need to look into that though
[09:38] <kiko> thanks for your comments, you have good points
[09:38] <carlos> well, the same would apply to the translation action...
[09:38] <kiko> not really.. that's done on the message level
[09:38] <kiko> not on the whole file level
[09:38] <carlos> we already moved it from a per message update to a per single submit 
[09:38] <carlos> to reduce the overhead
[09:38] <carlos> but yes, it would became a problem
[09:39] <carlos> but I 'm more concerned about suggestions ;-)
[09:39] <kiko> carlos, do you have that asynchronous suggestions code?
[09:40] <carlos> the one I wrote with AJAX?
[09:40] <carlos> yes, it should be on devpad
[09:40] <kiko> technolog!
[09:40] <kiko> errr
[09:40] <kiko> that sounded stupid
[09:40] <kiko> technology
[09:40] <kiko> BjornT, did you see mini's problem above?
[09:42] <somerville32> Hi
[09:42] <kiko> hi
[09:42] <somerville32> How can I register a product as a team instead of myself?
[09:42] <kiko> somerville32, you can 'change registrant'
[09:42] <somerville32> Ah, k.
[09:42] <somerville32> Can I delete a product after I create it?
[09:43] <kiko> somerville32, no!
[09:43] <kiko> somerville32, if you want to test, please use staging.launchpad.net
[09:44] <somerville32> Can I do anything I wnaqt on staging?
[09:44] <kiko> yes
[09:44] <kiko> you can
[09:44] <somerville32> I get 502
[09:44] <kiko> however
[09:44] <kiko> it's currently rebuilding :-(
[09:44] <kiko> can you wait a few hours?
[09:44] <somerville32> haha
[09:44] <somerville32> Sure.
[09:44] <somerville32> Another question
[09:45] <somerville32> Would it be wise to register a product for Xubuntu?
[09:45] <kiko> somerville32, a distro, yes, probably. who runs it?
[09:45] <kiko> distros are registered by admins
[09:46] <somerville32> Well, Xubuntu is a sister project like Kubuntu
[09:46] <kiko> yeah..
[09:46] <kiko> actually xubuntu is just different seeds right?
[09:46] <kiko> in that case it probably wouldn't make too much sense to register it separately..
[09:46] <kiko> hmmm
[09:47] <somerville32> I just thought it might serve organizationaly
[09:47] <somerville32> You can associate packages with a product, right?
[09:47] <kiko> yeah, you have a point
[09:47] <somerville32> and bugs
[09:47] <kiko> kinda
[09:47] <somerville32> and specifications
[09:47] <somerville32> and support requests
[09:47] <kiko> packages kinda
[09:47] <kiko> bugs and specs and requests yes
[09:47] <lifeless> somerville32: a package has a *single* product.
[09:47] <kiko> lifeless, not really
[09:47] <kiko> but its meant to be a 1ish-1ish relationship, you're right there.
[09:48] <somerville32> It just seems to me that Xubuntu is just all jumbled in with Ubuntu
[09:48] <kiko> (there are different packaging types.. it's non-trivial)
[09:48] <lifeless> kiko: its meant to be 'one product, one codebase'
[09:48] <somerville32> And it can be confusing to work through at times.
[09:48] <kiko> yeah
[09:48] <kiko> somerville32, who runs it?
[09:48] <lifeless> kiko: packages can represent 'one package N codebases' in theory, but not in practice.
[09:49] <kiko> yeh
[09:49] <somerville32> Kiko: Jani, I would say.
[09:49] <kiko> ah
[09:49] <lifeless> somerville32: when you write code, you should have a 'product' for each codebase.
[09:49] <kiko> somerville32, if he wants to talk about registering it let me know
[09:49] <lifeless> somerville32: xubuntu would be a bad catchall because you would end up putting unrelated code together.
[09:50] <somerville32> Just being able to group specifications, bugs, etc. I could see as a benefit.
[09:50] <somerville32> What do you think would be the best option?
[09:51] <kiko> somerville32, a distro. but there's an odd handle on that on the packaging and bug side of things.
[09:51] <kiko> and translations of course
[09:52] <somerville32> Since Xubuntu shares so much with Ubuntu, it would just create a lot of work for us.
[09:53] <somerville32> Maybe a good new feature for launchpad could address this issue? I'm not sure what but I'm sure there is something that could be done to make things easier.
[09:53] <kiko> yes
[09:53] <kiko> there are things we need to do to correctly support that sort of derivative
[09:54] <kiko> for instance
[09:54] <kiko> bugs filed in xubuntu are really ubuntu bugs
[09:54] <kiko> except for bugs in the seed selections
[09:58] <mcdonaldswes> I'm slightly confused about the scope of launchpad... is it a sourceforge replacement? I know I can track bugs with it, but I can't seem to find any mention of setting mailing lists for my project, or hosting a bzr repo
[09:59] <kiko> so carlos 
[10:00] <kiko> mcdonaldswes, we host bzr repos.
[10:00] <dsas> mcdonaldswes: It doesn't do mailing lists but it does do bzr...I'll see if I can dig out the docs
[10:00] <kiko> mcdonaldswes, we don't do mailing lists yet though
[10:00] <dsas> kiko: Does that mean it's somewhere planned in the future? :)
[10:00] <kiko> dsas, yeah, it is, but shhhhh
[10:01] <dsas> mcdonaldswes: http://ddaa.net/blog/launchpad/bzr-hosting
[10:01] <kiko> and also http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2006/08/17/1
[10:01] <kiko> ddaa, ping?
[10:02] <kiko> carlos, ping?
[10:08] <mcdonaldswes> I'm working on a distro based on dapper, so it would make most sense to host this project with launchpad, right? If I understand correctly, that means I can automatically include dapper bugs for whatever packages we use in our launchpad project bug tracker
[10:10] <kiko> mcdonaldswes, you can indeed
[10:10] <kiko> that's exactly how it works.
[10:11] <carlos> kiko: I'm having lunch right now...
[10:12] <kiko> carlos, ping me when you're back.
[10:12] <kiko> somerville32, what did I do now?
[10:13] <somerville32> Couldn't we do that then?
[10:13] <somerville32> For Xubuntu?
[10:13] <carlos> ok
[10:13] <kiko> somerville32, register xubuntu? lifeless is going to chat with jani and mdz to see what they think.
[10:13] <somerville32> Is it worth it?
[10:13] <somerville32> Why hasn't Kubuntu done anything like that?
[10:14] <SteveA> mcdonaldswes: we plan to host mailing lists in the future.
[10:14] <SteveA> ah, I see kiko already said that
[10:15] <mcdonaldswes> ok, cool
[10:15] <kiko> SteveA, then I said "shhhh"
[10:16] <kiko> somerville32, I'm not sure it's worth it, perhaps mdz will have a good definitive answer for us
[10:16] <mcdonaldswes> heh, that's what he thinks of mailing lists
[10:17] <kiko> mcdonaldswes, yes, places where people should be quiet. :)
[10:44] <ausimage> Hello I am responsible for posting the Meeting Logs on wiki.u.c. I have been talking with Jono about improving the process. I am looking for feedback on a spec being drafted MeetingSummarySpec on wiki.u.c. It is about using Launchpad in similar manner to Roseta, but for Team Meeting Logs.
[10:56] <ausimage> Does anyone have comments? I feel this would fit into Launchpad. It helps build and inform the community by sharing decisions and discussions made during IRC meetings.
[10:58] <jordi> ausimage: hmm, I can't input too much
[10:58] <jordi> I think there could be some space for that in lp too
[10:58] <ausimage> I know I am trying to gage my saneness factor
[10:59] <jordi> you might want to stay around until someone who can actually make it happen answers
[10:59] <ausimage> I am also trying to feel out the process to possible push the idea forward
[11:00] <ausimage> jordi: An end goal would be to make the logs available to team to create official summaries of them
[11:00] <kiko> ausimage, so you want to translate logs?
[11:00] <kiko> using launchpad to translate them?
[11:01] <jordi> no
[11:01] <ausimage> That could be part of it. But mostly to provide 'minutes of them'.
[11:01] <kiko> or is there no translation angle (that's what similar to Rosetta means to me)
[11:01] <kiko> ah
[11:01] <kiko> just summarize logs.
[11:01] <jordi> the main idea is to be able to post them I think?
[11:01] <kiko> well
[11:01] <kiko> what could Launchpad help you with?
[11:01] <ausimage> Yeah so anyone can visit a team page and see the the irc meeting logs for that team
[11:01] <kiko> well
[11:02] <kiko> ausimage, you can just add the logs to the team's homepage text
[11:02] <kiko> that's cheap
[11:02] <ausimage> Kiko read wiki.uc./MeetingLog Summary
[11:02] <ausimage> MeetingSummarySpec
[11:02] <ausimage> that was
[11:03] <ausimage> I am looking at allowing teams setting meetings that a script could grab the log and make it available
[11:07] <kiko> SteveA, THANK YOU. I have asked for that 100000 times!
[11:08] <ausimage> kiko did you check out wiki,u.c/MeetingSummarySpec ?
[11:08] <kiko> ausimage, yes.
[11:08] <SteveA> kiko: wassat?
[11:08] <kiko> ausimage, it's kinda hand-wavy to me tbh; I fear adding structured data and then different people wanting to use it differently
[11:08] <kiko>   [trivial]  add build revno to main templates
[11:08] <SteveA> ah, right.  ta!
[11:08] <kiko> I <3 SteveA 
[11:09] <kiko> no seriously
[11:09] <kiko> of course this is the revno of the production branch right?
[11:09] <SteveA> it's the revno of whatever branch you are running
[11:09] <kiko> right.
[11:09] <kiko> so for production..anyway, good job!
[11:09] <SteveA> we could do a special make runproduction that gets some different info to present
[11:10] <kiko> yeah
[11:10] <SteveA> and use that in production or something
[11:10] <SteveA> anyway, see how useful this is in practice
[11:10] <kiko> will do.
[11:11] <ausimage> kiko The logs would always be read only as well as the official summary and be made available on the teams page and in a calendar. I guess I don't see many other uses...
[11:12] <kiko> ausimage, why don't you start by adding the logs to the homepage content? (you know, edit homepage)?
[11:13] <ausimage> I guess handling the meeting logs so far I have realized some limitations...
[11:13] <ausimage> Meetings are scattered across several channels....
[11:13] <kiko> really?!
[11:13] <ausimage> Yeah... at least that is my impression...
[11:14] <carlos> kiko: pong
[11:14] <kiko> carlos, hey there.
[11:14] <ausimage> I am thinking of an automated process that can at least get the logs for meeting teams have
[11:14] <kiko> carlos, were there any bugs that deserved filing from that rosetta thread I commented on yesterday?
[11:15] <carlos> kiko: there is only one that we are not yet working on
[11:15] <carlos> and it's already filed
[11:15] <carlos> did you see my email?
[11:15] <kiko> carlos, yeah. okay, just checking
[11:15] <carlos> at least I don't think there is anything missing in malone or our spec tracking (and being implemented)
[11:15] <carlos> we would need a second run with Tim and the others
[11:15] <carlos> to check whether we addressed all their main concerns
[11:16] <carlos> once everything is on production
[11:17] <ausimage> kiko so my thinking was to allow teams set meetings that can then be grabbed. Launchpad has the teams already so why not have it grab and manage the meeting logs.
[11:19] <kiko> ausimage, it will be a lot of work, most likely
[11:19] <kiko> and you'd need to have a workflow well-established before justifying that
[11:19] <ausimage> kiko I understand that part, but launchpad already contains part of the infrastructure required 
[11:20] <kiko> ausimage, what's that?
[11:20] <kiko> the teams?
[11:20] <ausimage> Yeah the teams...
[11:20] <kiko> use the team homepage to record this for now
[11:20] <kiko> it's some work but not significant work
[11:21] <ausimage> K um not any one can just edit the home page though....
[11:22] <ausimage> I am just the person handling the logs for everyone... I have inquired about assistance in the past, but never received responses except from Jono.
[11:23] <ausimage> It seems the IRC meeting log thing is a low priority thing for most.
[11:25] <ausimage> kiko thanks for the feedback I will take it under consideration as I work to improve the meeting logs.
[11:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70974 in rosetta "mo download without --use-fuzzy option" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70974
[11:38] <mpt> SteveA, around?
[11:44] <SteveA> mpt: hi
[12:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70982 in blueprint "no notification about subscription modification" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70982