[12:30] <kiko> stub, still restoring, eh?
[12:30] <kiko> wow
[12:30] <kiko> that's a long time.
[12:37] <agent> does anyone know what the function of "karma" is in launchpad? does it do anything?
[01:02] <SteveA> lifeless: ping
[01:02] <SteveA> lifeless: forwarded you email from pqm -- gpg signing problem on ui branch
[01:05] <carlos> agent: helps to anyone to evaluate your Ubuntu contribution based on the information tracked by launchpad
[01:06] <somerville32> I have 131257 karma - is that a decent ammount?
[01:07] <agent> carlos, thank you.... but aside from being a statistic, it does not do anything else, correct? karma cannot be used, given or made to do things (ala slashdot)
[01:07] <carlos> no, we don't have such feature right now
[01:08] <kiko> agent, it doesn't currently, but there are plans to use it for credit later.
[01:08] <somerville32> How so?
[01:08] <agent> carlos, okay... thanks... would be nice to have a page about karma somewhere :D
[01:08] <carlos> agent: you mean 'documentation' explaining this kind of things?
[01:09] <agent> err... i meant kiko :)
[01:09] <kiko> agent, there's a page here:
[01:10] <kiko> hmmm
[01:10] <kiko> it's not online anymore
[01:10] <agent> :)
[01:11] <carlos> kiko: X-)
[01:11] <kiko> okay, you're right
[01:11] <kiko> we need karma docs
[01:11] <agent> i searched before i asked
[01:11] <agent> and the doc should be somehow visible in launchpad... maybe add it to the faq
[01:12] <kiko> yeah
[01:12] <kiko> help.launchpad.net
[01:13] <agent> also, maybe this is an oversight by myself, but that help.launchpad.net is not linked in lauchpad.net anywhere that i could find
[01:13] <agent> there is a nice faq link at the bottom
[02:16] <SteveA> stub: ping
[02:22] <SteveA> stub: ping again, as it's late here
[02:39] <carlos> STUB ERE
[02:39] <carlos> SteveA: pong
[02:39] <carlos> my laptop is upgrading
[02:42] <SteveA> carlos: hi
[02:43] <SteveA> so, kiko is reviewing my refactoring of our vhosting
[02:43] <SteveA> I've updated all the launchpad.confs on mainline
[02:43] <SteveA> anything else I need to do?
[02:43] <lifeless> kiko: still here ?
[02:43] <carlos> nah should just work
[02:43] <kiko> YES
[02:43] <kiko> but I am about to go out to dinner
[02:43] <SteveA> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileO16s3F.html
[02:43] <lifeless> got 2 minutes ?
[02:44] <SteveA> if you're interested
[02:44] <kiko> sure.
[02:44] <SteveA> all the virtual hosting things are collected together into a single section
[02:44] <SteveA> and the whole section may be safely omitted
[02:44] <SteveA> although if it is present, it must be complete
[02:45] <SteveA> I noticed when updating the launchpad.conf files that the production ones aren't up to date
[02:45] <SteveA> no mention of features.launchpad.net nor xmlrpc
[02:45] <lifeless> somerville32: are you at UDS-MTV ?
[02:45] <SteveA> are the production configs managed outside of mainline?
[02:46] <somerville32> lifeless: I wish.
[02:46] <somerville32> lifeless: Wanna fly me down?
[02:46] <SteveA> lifeless: please look at the gpg error I mailed you about merging via pqm into ui-one-zero
[02:46] <kiko> somerville32, there's NOTHING GOOD going on there
[02:46] <kiko> trust me
[02:46] <somerville32> Oh really? :(
[02:46] <somerville32> Whys that?
[02:46] <somerville32> Fighting?
[02:46] <somerville32> Flaming?
[02:46] <somerville32> Crying?
[02:46] <kiko> well, for starters, I'm not there
[02:46] <SteveA> poker, I believe
[02:46] <kiko> so how can it be good
[02:46] <somerville32> haha
[02:47] <carlos> vhosting stuff will not be uptodate in the gina and librarian configs, gina because it is obsolete and librarian because the webapp is never run with that config <8just the libraryan<9
[02:47] <kiko> in my book if I'm not at the place it's not worth going there
[02:47] <carlos> so no worries
[02:47] <carlos> i hate spanish keyboards
[02:47] <SteveA> it wasn't in production[1..4]  either I think
[02:47] <kiko> SteveA, I think stub <3 you
[02:48] <SteveA> in brasil?
[02:48] <somerville32> USA
[02:49] <kiko> there are no democrats in brazil
[02:49] <SteveA> well, if democrats have better immigration policy, so they'll let brasilians visit the US for conferences without the hassle of months of waiting for a visa...
[02:50] <kiko> that's a point
[02:51] <SteveA> carlos: please tell stub that the new vhosting stuff ought to land tomorrow morning, europe time
[02:51] <somerville32> lifeless: Why do you ask?
[02:51] <carlos> ok
[02:51] <carlos> SteveA: done
[02:52] <SteveA> thanks carlos 
[02:52] <lifeless> tchau tchau food time
[02:52] <lifeless> somerville32: if you were here I could talk with you face to face.
[02:53] <somerville32> Oh, haha. Freaky
[02:53] <somerville32> Is Jani there? Have you talked with him?
[02:54] <carlos> np
[02:55] <somerville32> How often do they sponsor people to go to these events?
[02:59] <kiko> sometimes
[03:00] <somerville32> I don't like how wishlist items are handled in launchpad.
[03:00] <somerville32> Wishlist should be a status, not an importance.
[03:01] <somerville32> Infact... maybe it's a bug?
[03:01] <lifeless> no, its quite deliberate
[03:01] <somerville32> Could you elaborate?
[03:01] <lifeless> wishlist says that the importance of the thing to the product/distro is that of items on a wishlist
[03:02] <lifeless> - they will not put effort into making it happen, but if someone else provides it, it will be accepted
[03:02] <somerville32> Ok, thats good
[03:02] <somerville32> But people use it for feature requests
[03:03] <kiko> somerville32, are you talking about bug statuses?
[03:03] <kiko> I don't agree with lifeless, ftr
[03:04] <somerville32> I reject feature requests
[03:04] <kiko-fud> well
[03:04] <kiko-fud> I wouldn't go that far
[03:04] <kiko-fud> but the line between bug and feature is not straight
[03:04] <kiko-fud> and on that line
[03:04] <somerville32> but someone told me to confirm them so that they can keep track of feature requests that are too small to require a specification
[03:05] <kiko-fud> I am going to have some thai
[03:05] <kiko-fud> that someone was wise
[03:05] <lifeless> mmm, thai
[03:05] <lifeless> ... me kangeroo down sport
[03:05] <somerville32> Maybe there should be a feature request section and a seperate specification section?
[03:06] <somerville32> Or modify malone to facilitate feature requests?
[03:07] <kiko-fud> I don't think malone's bad for feature requests
[03:07] <kiko-fud> I can't for one think of a large change I could make to it to better acomodate features
[03:07] <somerville32> It is all just mixed together though
[03:07] <kiko-fud> perhaps allowing wiki markup in descriptions
[03:07] <kiko-fud> somerville32, use the "feature" tag.
[03:07] <kiko-fud> tags are the future
[03:07] <somerville32> Hmm...
[03:07] <somerville32> Maybe have a type field?
[03:07] <somerville32> And then get rid of support requests
[03:07] <somerville32> and just use malone
[03:08] <somerville32> or make a feature request section since support requests get their own section, haha
[03:08] <kiko-fud> support requests and bugs are separate indeed
[03:09] <kiko-fud> and tags are the future
[03:09] <kiko-fud> use tags
[03:09] <somerville32> rfe != bugs :P
[03:09] <somerville32> Ok ok
[03:09] <kiko-fud> that's the meme of the week
[03:09] <somerville32> How about implementing ajax to auto-complete tags?
[03:14] <somerville32> kiko-fud: Do you think ubuntu-qa would accept me?
[03:15] <Fujitsu> somerville32: Ask ubuntu-qa, they're going to be best equipped to tell you :)
[03:15] <somerville32> What if they say no?
[03:15] <somerville32> : O
[03:22] <lifeless> jamesh: ping
[03:23] <lifeless> jamesh: can you get the scheduler to show specs which cannot be scheduled due to missing requirements ?
[03:24] <lifeless> i.e. 'cannot schedule foo' because attendee 'bar' is required and not present
[03:24] <lifeless> jamesh: or does it take that into consideration already ?
[03:27] <jamesh> lifeless: those specs are currently filtered out of the input of the scheduler, actually.
[03:27] <jamesh> lifeless: actually, no.  Those attendees are removed from the input
[03:27] <jamesh> except in the case where they were an assignee, etc
[03:28] <lifeless> jamesh: ok. instead let me not that we're finding it hard to debug why some important specs are not scheduling
[03:28] <lifeless> jamesh: for instance, the 09 schedule often only schedules 2 specs in a session - low parallellisation
[03:28] <lifeless> tchau for now
[03:28] <jamesh> lifeless: this is the list I produced for a few days ago: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileMR5GxJ.html
[03:29] <jamesh> but I think some of those have since been fixed.
[03:36] <somerville32> It goes YYYY-MM-DD, right?
[04:43] <mpt> kiko-fud, see the IssueTracker spec :-)
[04:43] <kiko-fud> what?!
 I can't for one think of a large change I could make to it to better acomodate features  <kiko-fud> perhaps allowing wiki markup in descriptions
[04:44] <kiko-fud> I do not want to THINK about that at this ungodly hour!
[04:45] <mpt> heh, fair enough
[04:47] <somerville32> :] 
[04:47] <somerville32> mpt: Your nickname seems so familiar. Have I chatted with you before? (Or should I know you? haha)
[04:48] <kiko-fud> somerville32, I think ubuntu-qa might consider accepting you if you offer them some money
[04:48] <somerville32> kiko-fud: haha, I'll keep that in mind <g>
[04:49] <mpt> somerville32, not that I remember
[04:56] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71020 in launchpad "Tell people where they are on the karma scale" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71020
[04:57] <somerville32> I still can't access https://staging.launchpad.net/ :(
[05:04] <kiko-zzz> somerville32, I think stub has sandbagged us all
[05:04] <kiko-zzz> or maybe it was carlos
[05:04] <kiko-zzz> it's hard to tell at this point
[05:06] <somerville32> :] 
[05:06] <kiko-zzz> SOMEBODY did this crazy patch
[05:06] <kiko-zzz> to fix rosetta
[05:06] <kiko-zzz> and it is taking geological time to get applied
[05:08] <somerville32> Whose around?
[05:08] <somerville32> er.. mischan
[05:33] <stub> bah. We appear to have two staging upgrades running simultaneously.
[05:34] <stub> Although the first is *still* running...
[05:37] <stub> It wasn't me!
[05:37] <somerville32> hehe
[05:37] <somerville32> The real question is: Can you fix it, Jim?
[05:46] <stub> I can make the patch go faster the next run at least. But it won't be available for at least 3.5 hours.
[05:46] <stub> (Part of what staging does is hit problems like these before they go into production)
[05:52] <stub> Bah. Can't make it go faster :-(
[05:55] <somerville32> :(
[08:56] <jamesh> mpt: new FormLayout has landed in rocketfuel
[09:15] <lifeless> jamesh: so is approver=team ok ?
[09:17] <jamesh> lifeless: not in general.  I put a small hack in to recognise certain teams and ignore them for scheduling purposes (mdz should have that code)
[09:17] <lifeless> jamesh: are the teams you listed in that hack ? :)
[09:18] <jamesh> lifeless: yeah: techboard, communitycouncil, rosetta-admins and ubuntu-art
[09:18] <jamesh> it should be trivial to add more if needed
[09:19] <lifeless> ok. so thats one thing to watch for.
[09:19] <lifeless> so in that list, why are there problems ? :)
[09:20] <lifeless> erm, rephrase. Can you do anything for the scheduling on friday (in about 18 hours from now), to make it easier to figure out why it fails to schedule somethings ?
[09:21] <lifeless> i.e. if its strictly priority first, and theres a high priority one being non-scheduled, saying 'skipping X because Y' to console might help.
[09:32] <jamesh> lifeless: looking now.  This is the list of specs that couldn't be scheduled: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/uds-mtv/2006-11-09/cantschedule.txt
[09:33] <jamesh> it gets added to that list if the score for every slot is 0 (i.e. it can't fit anywhere)
[09:33] <jamesh> it isn't tracking common reasons for not being able to fit the meeting in slots
[09:34] <jamesh> the ordering of that list matches the order that it tried to schedule them.
[09:42] <lifeless> anything you can do to increase the diagnostic ability of mdz woud be great
[09:43] <lifeless> gnight, its nearly 1am
[09:49] <somerville32> Anyone around?
[09:50] <jamesh> yes
[09:50] <somerville32> Hi :] 
[09:50] <somerville32> Do you think it would be useful to register Xubuntu as a project?
[09:51] <jamesh> don't know.  What feature are you after?
[09:52] <somerville32> I'm just looking for an easier way to organize, triage, and manage xubuntu bugs, specifications, etc.
[09:52] <somerville32> Currently, since Xubuntu is derived from Ubuntu, it is all mangled together with Ubuntu.
[09:55] <jamesh> hmm
[09:55] <jamesh> would bug tags help on the bugs front?
[09:56] <somerville32> I would think so :] 
[09:57] <somerville32> Oh, it looks like there is already a project for xfce
[09:57] <somerville32> Whats a driver?
[09:58] <jamesh> in the case of distros/products, it is meant to be the person/team that decides where the distro/product will go
[09:59] <somerville32> Whats the difference between the maintainer and the driver?
[09:59] <jamesh> in a small project, not much
[10:00] <jamesh> in a larger project, you might have more maintainers/developers than drivers
[10:00] <somerville32> Launchpad is such a beautiful creation.
[10:09] <somerville32> How do I answer support requests?
[10:12] <somerville32> haha, nvm <g>
[12:59] <mpt> Good morning matsubara 
[12:59] <matsubara> morning mpt 
[12:59] <mpt> Meeting today?
[12:59] <matsubara> that's what the topic says
[12:59] <ddaa> guess so...
[01:00] <jamesh> mpt: the new FormLayout stuff is in rocketfuel now
[01:01] <mpt> great
[01:01] <flacoste> meeting time?
[01:01] <matsubara> SteveA: ?
[01:02] <mpt> SteveA is away (away)
[01:02] <mpt> Any volunteers? :-)
[01:04] <matsubara> well, let's get this going then. Welcome to the LP weekly meeting!
[01:04] <matsubara> so who's here today?
[01:05] <ddaa> me
[01:05] <mpt> me
[01:05] <matsubara> me
[01:05] <flacoste> me
[01:05] <cprov> me
[01:05] <jamesh> me
[01:05] <matsubara> spiv? 
[01:05] <somerville32> me
[01:05] <ddaa> somerville32: new hire?
[01:06] <mpt> Non-developers are welcome
[01:06] <matsubara> jordi: ?
[01:06] <spiv> me
[01:06] <matsubara> == Agenda ==
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Roll call
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Agenda
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Next meeting
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Activity reports
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Bug report report (mpt)
[01:06] <mpt> ddaa, would you like to call SteveA?
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:06] <SteveA> is that the time already!
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:06] <matsubara> ----
[01:06] <jordi> hello
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Poll to check use of smartserver on devpad, any issues etc. (spiv)
[01:06] <mpt> oh, never mind
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Help text in templates
[01:06] <matsubara>  * (other items)
[01:06] <jordi> sorry, just sat down
[01:06] <matsubara> ----
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[01:06] <matsubara>  * Three sentences
[01:07] <matsubara> SteveA: should I continue or you assume from now on?
[01:07] <spiv> matsubara: the smartserver item is from last week, you can drop it.
[01:07] <SteveA> matsubara: please go on
[01:07] <matsubara> spiv: ok
[01:07] <matsubara> so next meeting? shall we make it at the allhands with everyone in person?
[01:08] <SteveA> yes
[01:08] <jamesh> probably not same time next week though :)
[01:08] <SteveA> next meeting in 2 weeks
[01:08] <mpt> How about 1700 UTC?
[01:08] <mpt> aka 9am
[01:09] <jordi> I won't be at allhands, very unfortunately :(
[01:09] <SteveA> we'll just wing it at all hands
[01:09] <SteveA> see what the schedule looks like
[01:09] <mpt> ok
[01:09] <SteveA> there will be various meetings to do with launchpad there
[01:09] <jordi> so will it just be "live", or online even if you're on the same room?
[01:09] <SteveA> jordi: no meeting next week
[01:10] <jordi> ok.
[01:10] <ddaa> a standard meeting would be pretty moot
[01:10] <matsubara> * Activity reports
[01:10] <SteveA> or a moot
[01:10] <matsubara> +1 ddaa 
[01:10] <mpt> not up to date
[01:10] <ddaa> up to date
[01:10] <SteveA> not up to date
[01:10] <cprov> up to date
[01:10] <matsubara> I'm up to date
[01:10] <flacoste> up to date
[01:10] <jordi> not up to date
[01:10] <jordi> but getting close
[01:10] <jamesh> not up to date
[01:10] <spiv> not up to date
[01:11] <somerville32> not up to date?
[01:11] <matsubara> congrats to those up to date. I'm guilty of batching the reports.
[01:11] <matsubara> I see that lots of people are not up to date.
[01:12] <SteveA> somerville32: hello.  in these meetings, there's a mixture of stuff that is about keeping the launchpad development team at canonical running as a distributed team
[01:12] <SteveA> somerville32: and also stuff about the day-to-day and week by week running of the launchpad application
[01:12] <SteveA> somerville32: and developing new features
[01:12] <somerville32> :] 
[01:12] <matsubara> is that because of the conferences? if yes, make a big batch of you latest activities
[01:12] <matsubara> it's better than nothing 
[01:12] <matsubara> * Actions from last meeting
[01:13] <SteveA> somerville32: you're welcome to be here in the meeting, but don't worry about the sections that aren't to do specifically with launchpad features or quality or issues
[01:13] <matsubara> I think those are not up to date as well:
[01:13] <matsubara> * spiv to finish the damn __eq__ for database objects action item
[01:13] <matsubara>  * jamesh to mail the launchpad@ list with instructions on making bzr+ssh:// and PQM coexist
[01:13] <mpt> Those are up to date, matsubara 
[01:13] <jamesh> done
[01:13] <matsubara> oh, I thougth it was from the last meeting.
[01:13] <mpt> For spiv's, last meeting he said "there's something in the review queue"
[01:13] <matsubara> thanks jamesh 
[01:14] <spiv> mpt: right
[01:14] <mpt> Did it get landed?
[01:14] <matsubara> so it can be considered done, right?
[01:14] <spiv> Not landed.  I'm midway through some small changes to it (ETA: done by end of this meeting ;) ), and so far it's unreviewed.
[01:15] <spiv> I'll mail kiko (the reviewer) about it tonight, and if he is too busy I'll get it reassigned.
[01:15] <SteveA> done means passed review and in mainline
[01:15] <SteveA> otherwise, it's not really integrated and available to everyone
[01:15] <SteveA> apparently, I have a whole *DVD* of stuff that is in that state
[01:15] <matsubara> Moving on; * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:16] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 70952, 52576
[01:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70952 in malone "LookupError when a product adopt malone as its bugtracker and that product already have bugwatches." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70952
[01:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52576 in malone "+backport needs better input validation " [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52576
[01:16] <SteveA> just ask kiko.  but it takes work to make it really "done"
[01:16] <matsubara> Bug 70952 is not assigned. This is not a common situation but I left the importace as high because it's very bad press release. The jokosher product just adopted malone as its official bugtracker and some bug pages crashed for them. Who can take this one?
[01:17] <SteveA> whenever I see the word "backport", I think of that cheesy cronenburg film "existenz"
[01:17] <matsubara> Bug 52576 was assigned to Brad. He left a comment saying that the +backport page in question is gone in his release management branch, but it needs some tweaking in the +nominate page. Should I just re-assing this to BjornT, since he's the one working on the release management branch?
[01:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52576 in malone "+backport needs better input validation " [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52576
[01:17] <mpt> matsubara, BjornT is probably asleep. Does it need fixing before next week?
[01:17] <ddaa> SteveA: its not cheezy
[01:17] <mpt> (70952, I mean)
[01:18] <SteveA> ddaa: sorry I dissed your favourite film ;-)
[01:18] <matsubara> mpt: not really. it's probably taken care of in the release mgmt branch
[01:18] <ddaa> SteveA: sorry I dissed your favourite VCS last meeting :)
[01:19] <matsubara> anyway, I'll talk to him later
[01:19] <matsubara> * Bug report report (mpt)
[01:19] <mpt> There are 12 known Critical bugs in Launchpad without released fixes. They are:
[01:19] <mpt>  * Bug #929 (Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns), Critical, Fix Committed, jamesh
[01:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 929 in launchpad "Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/929
[01:19] <mpt> SteveA, should it be a policy that Critical means "important enough to be cherrypicked as soon as it's fixed"?
[01:19] <SteveA> no
[01:19] <matsubara> mpt, bug 929 is blocked
[01:19] <mpt> blocked?
[01:19] <matsubara> it's fixed and the cherrypicked was requested
[01:20] <jamesh> 929 couldn't be cherrypicked, since the rev depended on some previous ones
[01:20] <jamesh> (test fixes)
[01:20] <matsubara> but it's blocked on landing a big support tracker patch before
[01:20] <SteveA> it should be policy that Critical means "important enough to dsicuss cherrypicking of it with stuart and/or me+kiko"
[01:20] <ddaa> critical means "drop whatever you're doing and fix it godamnit"
[01:20] <mpt> ok.
[01:20] <mpt>  * Bug #2497 (/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators), Critical, Fix Committed, kiko
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2497
[01:20] <mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, kiko
[01:20] <mpt> kiko-zzz isn't here
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
[01:20] <jamesh> it'll be in the next rollout though
[01:20] <mpt>  * Bug #44214 (We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path), Critical, In Progress, carlos
[01:20] <mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
[01:20] <mpt>  * Bug #68014 (Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values), Critical, In Progress, carlos
[01:20] <mpt>  * Bug #70141 (ubuntu-docs templates are gone), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
[01:20] <mpt> carlos isn't here
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70141 in rosetta "ubuntu-docs templates are gone" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70141
[01:20] <mpt>  * Bug #48948 (dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be), Critical, Confirmed, malcc, who's not here
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48948 in soyuz "dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48948
[01:21] <mpt>  * Bug #56618 (Milestone restrictions are too restrictive for Ubuntu), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
[01:21] <mpt>  * Bug #64017 (Setting a bug confidential after its creation creates a ghost bug), Fix Committed, bradb
[01:21] <mpt>  * Bug #66562 (BugSubscriberPortletView.getSubscribersFromDupes seems to cause timeouts), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
[01:21] <mpt> BjornT isn't here to decide which of those need cherrypicks
[01:21] <SteveA> matsubara: I want to say a few things about critical bugs after mpt is done.
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56618 in malone "Milestone restrictions are too restrictive for Ubuntu" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56618
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64017 in launchpad "Setting a bug confidential after its creation creates a ghost bug" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64017
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66562 in malone "BugSubscriberPortletView.getSubscribersFromDupes seems to cause timeouts" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66562
[01:21] <mpt> and finally
[01:21] <mpt>  * Bug #66383 (private), Critical, In Progress, ddaa
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Bug 66383 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/66383 is private
[01:21] <mpt> yes, Ubugtu, we know
[01:22] <mpt> ddaa, tell us about progress on 66383 :-)
[01:22] <ddaa> mpt: mh... that one needs discussion... there's a quick fix in review, but it does not affect the UI
[01:22] <mpt> ddaa, so make a note to discuss it next week?
[01:22] <ddaa> and I'm not entirely clear yet on how the UI should be extended to handle the problem
[01:23] <mpt> all right
[01:23] <ddaa> well... discussion here mostly means "I mean to sit down and figure it out"
[01:23] <mpt> ok
[01:23] <mpt> That's all from me, thanks matsubara, over to SteveA 
[01:23] <ddaa> I'd rather avoid bikesheddinh unless I really need input.
[01:23] <matsubara> thanks mpt
[01:24] <SteveA> The process for getting a bugfix cherrypicked looks like this:
[01:24] <SteveA>  - If the bug is critical, fix the bug, then ask Stuart if it can be
[01:24] <SteveA>    cherrypicked.  Write as a comment in the bug report why it deserves
[01:24] <SteveA>    to be cherrypicked.
[01:24] <SteveA>  - If the bug is not critical, don't even discuss getting it cherrypicked.
[01:24] <SteveA>    If you think it needs to be cherrypicked, then you need to make the
[01:24] <SteveA>    bug "critical", the same as you would get the importance set on any other
[01:24] <SteveA>    bug.
[01:24] <SteveA> So, there are two possible conversations:
[01:24] <SteveA>  - the conversation to make a non-critical bug into a critical bug.
[01:24] <SteveA>  - the conversation to make a critical bug be cherrypicked.
[01:25] <SteveA> 
[01:25] <SteveA> The point of this is to make the process clear to everyone, and also so that Stuart is consulted only about bugs we've agreed are critical.
[01:25] <SteveA> Any questions or comments?
[01:25] <ddaa> seems heavyweight
[01:26] <SteveA> ddaa: please explain
[01:26] <flacoste> "the conversation to make a non-critical bug into a critical bug": how does that happen?
[01:26] <ddaa> sometimes, small fixes deserve to be cherrypicked even if they are not critical by any reasonable definition
[01:26] <flacoste> apart from selecting the value in the bug page :-)
[01:26] <SteveA> ddaa: I disagree.  Cherrypicking is a risky operation, and uses valuable stub time.
[01:26] <ddaa> not very often for me at the moment, but I see how that can become an issue
[01:26] <SteveA> If it needs cherrypicking then it must be critical.
[01:27] <SteveA> If it's not critical, then it can wait.
[01:27] <ddaa> *shrug* then let's agree to disagree
[01:27] <SteveA> let's not disagree
[01:27] <mpt> but if it's Critical it doesn't *necessarily* need cherrypicking
[01:27] <SteveA> mpt: correct
[01:27] <mpt> ok
[01:27] <SteveA> ddaa: you may hold a different opinion of what is best
[01:27] <SteveA> but I want you to agree to follow the process
[01:28] <SteveA> flacoste: how do we decide on the importance of bugs now?
[01:28] <ddaa> I think subsystems maintainer are in the best situation to assess the risk/benefit of a cherrypick
[01:28] <jamesh> ddaa: the existing importance value is probably wrong if the fix deserves cherrypicking
[01:28] <jamesh> (and it is of a lower importance)
[01:28] <flacoste> SteveA: yeah, what is the process for that?
[01:28] <ddaa> stub cost is another problem
[01:28] <ddaa> I agree to follow the workflow, if that's what matters to you.
[01:28] <SteveA> thank you ddaa.
[01:29] <SteveA> flacoste: I don't think we have a formal process for that.
[01:29] <SteveA> flacoste: the informal process is that matsubara sets importance sometimes, depending if the bug is causing an oops or whatever
[01:29] <SteveA> or lots of support request or queries
[01:30] <SteveA> and if the bug gets in the way of launchpad doing what it's meant to do -- stops some significant workflows for a lot of people
[01:30] <SteveA> then it is very important
[01:30] <flacoste> so, if I think that a bug importance should be raised, I ask mastubara?
[01:30] <SteveA> if you think a bug's importance should be raised, just raise it, and leave a comment in the bug explaining why
[01:30] <flacoste> fine
[01:31] <matsubara> that's much better. specially because subsystem maintainer can make that call much better than I
[01:31] <SteveA> anything else?
[01:31] <flacoste> i'm fine
[01:31] <matsubara> ok, moving on.
[01:31] <SteveA> I expect any launchpad developer to set importance on any launchpad bugs they feel strongly about, provided they explain why in the bug
[01:32] <matsubara>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:32] <mpt> He's probably asleep
[01:32] <matsubara> well, stub not here, let's move the next topic
[01:32] <jamesh> he's not here
[01:32] <SteveA> so, we had a botched cherrypick.  read stu's report to the list for details.
[01:32] <SteveA> it resulted in a 40 minute outage that had been expected to be only 10 minutes
[01:32] <matsubara> * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:32] <SteveA> and
[01:33] <mpt> Evidence that cherrypicks are not to be requested lightly, then.
[01:33] <SteveA> due to a problem with how the authserver handles a locked Person table, the wikis kinda hung during that time
[01:33] <SteveA> so, we should improve the authserver to use our standard query timeout systems.
[01:33] <SteveA> mpt: I agree.  Particularly cherrypicks involving database updates.
[01:34] <SteveA> Other than that, things are fine in production.
[01:34] <SteveA> done.
[01:34] <matsubara> thanks SteveA, next item * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:34] <flacoste> * Support Tracker 1.0
[01:34] <flacoste> SupportTrackerWorkflow: Completed.
[01:34] <ddaa> supermirror-smart-server: no progress last week, spiv busy with reviews and getting the infrastructure merged in bzr
[01:34] <flacoste> SupportTrackerViews: Landed. Missing 'Needs attention' report.
[01:34] <flacoste> LocalizedSupportRequest: preferred-languages branch landed. Mostly in review (tt-add-localized-requests, tt-localized-requests-notifications), needs to finish tt-search-localized-requests.
[01:35] <flacoste> SupportTrackerHelp: 75% completed. Missing Highlights, help on native language support and polish.
[01:35] <flacoste> * Other 1.0 Features
[01:35] <flacoste> DirectPersonCreation: 2nd round of review
[01:35] <cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =
[01:35] <cprov>  * PPA: ppa-build-support & ppa-poppy (cprov, w-i-p)
[01:35] <cprov>  * Archive Rework: pending review (malcc)
[01:35] <cprov>  * NoMoreAptFtparchive: 2nd round review (cprov)
[01:35] <cprov>  * Code quality:
[01:35] <cprov>    * NascentUpload first refactoring (kiko, under development)
[01:35] <cprov>  * General Fixing:
[01:35] <cprov>    * Some help texts in progress.
[01:35] <cprov>  * Last commits:
[01:35] <cprov>    * DiskPoll refatoring (malcc)
[01:35] <cprov>    * Single suite publication support (cprov)
[01:35] <cprov>    * Cleanup on buildd content-classes (cprov)
[01:36] <matsubara> no rosetta or malone reports since the danilo, carlos and bjorn aren't here, anything else missing?
[01:37] <matsubara> * Sysadmin requests
[01:37] <matsubara> 5
[01:37] <matsubara> 4
[01:37] <matsubara> 3
[01:37] <matsubara> 2
[01:37] <matsubara> 1
[01:37] <matsubara> good! 3rd week in a row.
[01:37] <matsubara> * Help text in templates (SteveA)
[01:37] <SteveA> I saw some landing!
[01:38] <SteveA> keep it coming.
[01:38] <matsubara> * Keep, Bag, Change
[01:39] <SteveA> quick poll, say "helped" if you added some help text to at least one template so far, "not helped" if you haven't yet, and "not my problem guvnor" if you have none to add
[01:39] <ddaa> CHANGE: new moin with shiny wysiwyg editor on launchpad wikis
[01:39] <SteveA> matsubara, ddaa: one moment please
[01:39] <mpt> helped
[01:39] <matsubara> sorry, SteveA 
[01:39] <cprov> helped
[01:39] <spiv> not my problem guvnor
[01:39] <flacoste> helped
[01:39] <SteveA> not my problem guvnor
[01:39] <ddaa> helped
[01:39] <matsubara> not my problem guvnor
[01:39] <jamesh> helped
[01:39] <SteveA> that everyone?
[01:40] <SteveA> thanks james, ddaa, flacoste, cprov, mpt
[01:40] <SteveA> done
[01:40] <mpt> BAG: 4am meetings
[01:40] <ddaa> CHANGE: new moin with shiny wysiwyg editor on launchpad wikis
[01:40] <SteveA> mpt: I didn't expect UDS folks to be here, but I'm glad you decided to come.
[01:41] <jamesh> so, everyone knows that new page templates must have help text to pass review?
[01:41] <SteveA> ddaa: you want to remove the new moin, or you want us to adopt the new moin?
[01:41] <mpt> heh
[01:41] <ddaa> adopt the new moin
[01:41] <SteveA> ddaa: mention it at allhands when we're (almost) all there
[01:41] <mpt> jamesh, I didn't know that, but that's a good idea
[01:41] <ddaa> If I wanted remove, I would have said "shitty" instead of "shiny"
[01:41] <SteveA> mpt: I mailed the list, and jamesh mailed the reviews list
[01:42] <mpt> My fault for not reading e-mail then :-)
[01:42] <SteveA> time passes
[01:42] <SteveA> you have been eaten by a grue
[01:43] <matsubara> * Three sentences
[01:43] <ddaa> DONE: vcs-imports bugfixes, reviews, upgrades, deployment, herding
[01:43] <ddaa> TODO: vcs-imports review fixes, landing, herding, launchpad help texts
[01:43] <ddaa> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <mpt> DONE: attending UDS
[01:43] <mpt> TODO: finish UDS, finish 1.0 work
[01:43] <mpt> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <cprov> DONE: ppa buildd support, code reviews, help texts
[01:43] <cprov> TODO: ppa binary uploads support, UDS specifications, help texts
[01:43] <cprov> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <flacoste> DONE: implemented notifications for localized support requests, refactoring of support contacts related methods in ITicketTarget, reviews
[01:43] <flacoste> TODO: finish search related aspects of localized support requests, AllHands
[01:43] <flacoste> BLOCKED: not really, but many branches stalled in review
[01:43] <matsubara> DONE: holidays, triage, oops report analysis.
[01:43] <matsubara> TODO: more of the same
[01:43] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <jamesh> DONE: code reviews, sprint scheduler changes, spec-branches, bug import
[01:43] <jamesh> TODO: code reviews, allhands
[01:43] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <spiv> DONE: reviews, bzr smart server hacking
[01:43] <spiv> TODO: reviews, bzr smart server hacking
[01:43] <spiv> BLOCKED: no
[01:44] <SteveA> DONE: landed build number for main templates on mainline
[01:44] <SteveA> TODO: finish refactoring vhost support, and add new vhosts for bugs, blueprints, translations etc.
[01:44] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[01:44] <matsubara> flacoste: stalled why? no reviewers to take care of them?
[01:44] <flacoste> matsubara: well, the review queue is getting longer and longer these days, many reviewers are busy
[01:45] <SteveA> flacoste: that's a conversation we'll have next week
[01:45] <flacoste> if you at the the Pending Branch Summary, you'll see that the average time in the needs-review state is near one week
[01:45] <SteveA> I've been talking with lifeless about this
[01:45] <SteveA> and we have some ideas and principles to discuss at all hands
[01:45] <flacoste> SteveA: ok
[01:45] <cprov> ah, forgot to mention
[01:45] <cprov> TODO: stay home (not going to US-allhands, couldn't get visa at time)
[01:46] <SteveA> we'll miss you, cprov !
[01:46] <jamesh> cprov: that's a shame
[01:46] <jordi> DONE: lots of imports, email
[01:46] <flacoste> cprov: that's sad
[01:46] <jamesh> cprov: I guess that means you'll be skipping the cavity searches :)
[01:46] <cprov> SteveA: thanks, I'm sorry too
[01:46] <jordi> TODO: final bits of email + queue
[01:46] <jordi> BLOCKED: allhands :(
[01:46] <SteveA> we'll miss you, jordi, too
[01:47] <jordi> yeah, I'll miss the team
[01:47] <spiv> cprov, jordi: you'll be missed :(
[01:47] <jordi> more when it might have been a "goodbye" allhands for me.
[01:47] <jordi> oh well, we'll see
[01:47] <cprov> do you think we can get VOIP sessions for allhands as well ?
[01:48] <matsubara> well, I guess that's it. Anything else?
[01:48] <matsubara> MEETING ENDS, thanks everyone.
[01:48] <ddaa> mpt: ping
[01:48] <SteveA> thanks for running the meeting matsubara.  I like how you kept it very smooth.
[01:48] <mpt> Thanks matsubara 
[01:49] <mpt> ddaa, pong
[01:49] <ddaa> mpt: the link to the detailed branch listing on the person/+branches page was removed, was what you?
[01:50] <matsubara> SteveA, mpt: you're welcome
[01:50] <ddaa> mpt: I'm trying to figure if this was just a mistake, or if it was intentional, and why.
[01:50] <mpt> ddaa, not that I remember
[01:50] <ddaa> btw
[01:50] <mpt> I can't think of a good reason for that either
[01:50] <ddaa> BAG: bzr going to swap hell when doing "bzr log FILE" on launchpad
[01:51] <ddaa> mpt: I can imagine that making sense in a "let's make the UI simpler" approach
[01:51] <LarstiQ> it's performance could be improved a bit, yes :)
[01:52] <ddaa> in particular because this page does not expose the relation between the person and the branch
[01:52] <ddaa> mpt: any opinion on whether it should be restored, or left as is?
[01:53] <matsubara> cprov: better ask elmo about it
[01:53] <mpt> ddaa, to express an opinion that was worth anything, I'd need to see a page how it was before
[01:54] <mpt> Does production still have the link?
[01:55] <ddaa> mpt: no
[01:55] <ddaa> the page is https://launchpad.net/people/larstiq/+branchlisting
[01:55] <ddaa> compare to https://launchpad.net/people/larstiq/+branches
[01:56] <mpt> eww
[01:56] <ddaa> ?
[01:56] <cprov> matsubara: ok, I will check if it would be possible, thx
[01:56] <mpt> ddaa, those pages shouldn't both exist
[01:56] <mpt> They should be combined *somehow*
[01:57] <ddaa> mpt: why
[01:57] <ddaa> there's the same duplication for products
[01:57] <ddaa> one is short, good for browsing
[01:57] <ddaa> one has details, good for exploring
[01:58] <ddaa> consider https://launchpad.net/people/jameinel/+branches
[01:58] <mpt> I don't think they're mutually exclusive
[01:58] <ddaa> you mean one page with more state?
[01:58] <spiv> Is the long one actually good for exploring?  I've always found it's good for making my eyes glaze over...
[01:59] <mpt> I could draw up some designs for satisfying both goals
[01:59] <ddaa> "show details" / "show brief listing"
[01:59] <mpt> once 1.0 is done
[01:59] <spiv> Also, looking at jameinel's branches it seems to me that we probably want to hide merged branches by default.
[02:00] <ddaa> spiv: absolutely, there's a high prio. bug on this
[02:00] <ddaa> it's the single most important bugfix we need to do to the branch ui
[02:00] <mpt> bug 58889
[02:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58889 in launchpad-bazaar "Merged and abandoned branch should not appear in main branch listings" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58889
[02:00] <spiv> Assuming that the purpose of the page is to aid collaboration on active work, rather than dig through history (we have a VCS if people want a tool for looking at history of code...)
[02:01] <somerville32> When will staging be back up?
[02:01] <spiv> mpt's suggestion on that bug is exactly what I would expect, too.
[02:02] <ddaa> It's all defined. It just need to be done.
[02:02] <ddaa> spiv: thanks for volunteering :)
[02:02] <ddaa> wow! you've got surplus round tuits!
[02:04] <ddaa> mpt: generally, I think launchpad really abuses tabular listings
[02:04] <ddaa> more often than not, they are really ugly and hard to read
[02:04] <mpt> yes
[02:04] <mpt> Often they are too wide, too
[02:05] <mpt> In this case, I think perhaps a table that has two rows per branch
[02:05] <ddaa> and lead to endless arguments about how columns should be ordered
[02:05] <mpt> That's just an idea that comes to mind
[02:06] <ddaa> Tim Berners Lee gave us UL.
[02:06] <mpt> What are your thoughts on bug listings? :-)
[02:07] <ddaa> mpt: I like bug listings as they are
[02:07] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bugs
[02:07] <ddaa> looks fine to me
[02:08] <ddaa> except maybe for the left hand column of portlets
[02:08] <ddaa> well
[02:08] <ddaa> no actually, it sucks
[02:08] <ddaa> it displays nothing about tags
[02:08] <ddaa> and assigned status
[02:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71074 in launchpad-bazaar "Merge the two variants of a person's branch listing" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71074
[04:00] <SteveA> kiko-zzz: not around yet?
[04:00] <kiko-zzz> I'm half-around
[04:01] <somerville32> :] 
[04:06] <kiko-zzz> SteveA, want it to be now or in an hour?
[04:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71088 in launchpad-support-tracker "Notify ticket subscribers when the status of a linked bug change" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71088
[04:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71090 in launchpad-support-tracker "Use guided bug workflow in +makebug" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71090
[05:18] <SteveA> kiko-zzz: the time is nigh
[05:21] <kiko-zzz> SteveA, oh, email?
[05:21] <SteveA> rereview
[05:23] <kiko-zzz> la la la
[05:24] <kiko-zzz> ah tests!
[05:25] <kiko-zzz> steve
[05:25] <kiko-zzz> much better
[05:25] <kiko-zzz> r=kiko
[05:26] <SteveA> thanks kiko
[05:43] <carlos> morning
[05:50] <Keybuk> somerville32: hello
[05:50] <somerville32> Keybuk: How are you?
[05:50] <Keybuk> good
[05:50] <somerville32> Scott, right?
[05:51] <somerville32> I think I talked to you about your blog the other week <g>
[06:00] <Keybuk> somerville32: yes, I believe you did
[06:00] <Keybuk> Typo sucks
[06:01] <somerville32> :] 
[06:09] <lifeless> morning
[06:09] <somerville32> Hi :] 
[06:13] <newz2000> staging.launchpad.net is down, and I need its mirror prober
[06:15] <lifeless> stub: ^
[06:21] <stub> It is still updating (and has been for the last 14 hours or so, so I guess we need to revisit that data migration patch...)
[06:23] <newz2000> wow, that's one heck of an update
[06:29] <Znarl> newz2000 : Couldn't the mirror pages be build off production data?
[06:29] <newz2000> Znarl: according to salgato, no.
[06:29] <newz2000> There's a bug that allows some mirrors that dont' have the newest release to show up in the list
[06:30] <kiko> stub, can we abort the update?
[06:31] <kiko> might be the wisest thing at this point
[06:31] <stub> kiko: There is no working staging database. Aborting won't change the situation.
[06:31] <kiko> stub, hmmm, you're right
[06:35] <kiko> stub, the rosetta optimizations may need to be done ahead of time :-)
[06:35] <stub> I'm sorting it now - looks like we can defer the expensive bit until post rollout and do it on a live system.
[06:43] <kiko> jamesh!!!
[07:15] <mantiena-baltix> Hi all
[07:17] <mantiena-baltix> kiko, could you help me to register new milestone in Baltix distribution (https://launchpad.net/distros/baltix )
[07:18] <mantiena-baltix> previously there was a link in main menu, but few months ago this link disappers:(
[07:20] <mantiena-baltix> SteveA, are you near the computer ?
[07:24] <mantiena-baltix> anyone, please help me...
[07:24] <LarstiQ> mantiena-baltix: relax, this is irc
[07:24] <LarstiQ> interactions are on their own glacier like timescale :)
[07:24] <mantiena-baltix> LarstiQ, :)
[07:25] <LarstiQ> mantiena-baltix: I don't know how milestones work with distributions, I only have experience with using a product
[07:25] <LarstiQ> mantiena-baltix: if no one here answers though, email the launchpad-users list
[07:25] <mantiena-baltix> LarstiQ, could you tell me URL example ?
[07:26] <LarstiQ> mantiena-baltix: url of the launchpad-users list?
[07:26] <kiko> mantiena-baltix, I don't think it's possible to add milestones do a distro without releases.
[07:27] <mantiena-baltix> kiko, previously this was possible, look at https://launchpad.net/distros/baltix/+milestone/dapper or https://launchpad.net/distros/baltix/+milestone/breezy
[07:29] <kiko> yeah, it was a constraint added later.
[07:29] <kiko> I need to check again with mark.
[07:30] <mantiena-baltix> kiko, so, what should I do - I can't register nor Baltix releases nor milestones :(
[07:30] <kiko> mantiena-baltix, it's a bug. I'll sort it out for you, let me cook up an email.
[07:31] <mantiena-baltix> kiko, it's very important to register new milestone for Baltix, because I should assing new bugreports for new milestone
[07:31] <kiko> yeah
[07:32] <mantiena-baltix> kiko, maybe now there is some hidden URL for registering new milestone ?
[07:32] <kiko> it's a db constraint issue
[07:32] <kiko> I'm writing 
[07:35] <mantiena-baltix> kiko, sorry, I don't understand what means "let me *cook up* an email" :(
[07:36] <kiko> it means I'll start the discussion on how to fix this
[07:36] <mantiena-baltix> :)
[07:37] <mantiena-baltix> kiko, please CC me when you will send an email. my email is mantas@akl.lt
[07:38] <mantiena-baltix> thanks for helping, I should quit now.
[07:49] <stub> kiko, newz2000: staging is back up
[07:49] <stub> I'll run the mirror prober now
[07:52] <salgado> stub, staging is running HEAD, I guess?
[07:52] <stub> yes
[08:17] <kiko> stub, many thanks.
[08:25] <newz2000> stub, salgado: thanks, how will I know when the mirror list is safe to use?
[08:29] <kiko> thanks cprov 
[08:29] <kiko> good answer
[08:30] <cprov> kiko: good, thank you
[08:32] <SteveA> yo ho ho
[08:33] <malcc> Arr
[08:50] <newz2000> salgado: do you know if the mirror list on staging is accurate? I see it's up, but I don't know if I can trust it yet
[09:10] <newz2000> Anyone willing to go on the record and tell me if its safe to use the mirror list on staging yet?
[09:14] <kiko> newz2000, I think it is safe, yes -- stub should have run the prober by now. 
[09:14] <kiko> newz2000, does it look safe by its contents?
[09:15] <salgado> newz2000, was in a meeting, sorry
[09:15] <newz2000> it looks safe, but maybe fewer locations than I expected
[09:15] <salgado> the contents should be the same as production
[09:15] <salgado> and with the last fixes I merged, we should get more mirrors
[09:15] <kiko> salgado, didn't stub do a run of the prober?
[09:16] <SteveA> that so sounds like what they have at US airports nowadays
[09:16] <malcc> Ah, but do they have a wand cleaning facility?
[09:16] <newz2000> SteveA: don't tell me you were first in line?
[09:17] <kiko> SteveA?
[09:23] <kiko> hey flacoste?
[09:23] <salgado> newz2000, how many mirrors did you get on staging's rss feed?
[09:23] <salgado> kiko, yeah, he just did one
[09:23] <kiko> cool.
[09:23] <newz2000> salgado: let me check
[09:23] <kiko> hey fabbione 
[09:24] <fabbione> hey kiko
[09:24] <kiko> wassup padrino
[09:24] <salgado> newz2000, staging's feed should be the same as productions'
[09:25] <newz2000> ok, there are more than I expected... aparently the rss view in ff truncates the list
[09:25] <kiko> I think it does indeed
[09:25] <newz2000> salgado: 43
[09:25] <kiko> newz2000, it's a problem in particular for bug queries
[09:25] <newz2000> which is a prime number
[09:25] <kiko> because if we offer them via rss 
[09:25] <kiko> it might be that some bugs get omitted
[09:25] <newz2000> kiko: we need to create an xsl stylesheet to attach to the rss
[09:25] <kiko> rss readers are geared more towards news and blogs...
[09:26] <kiko> newz2000, so we can browse it directly?
[09:26] <newz2000> yeah
[09:26] <newz2000> it's already on my todo list
[09:26] <newz2000> but won't happen until after the allhands meeting
[09:26] <kiko> cool idea
[09:27] <newz2000> yeah, I wish I'd thought of it before writing this python script I'm using now
[09:29] <kiko> python ewwww
[09:29] <newz2000> salgado: how often is the mirror prober running now?
[09:30] <newz2000> :D
[09:30] <newz2000> I like python, but the xsl would have been more broadly useful and probably taken the same amount of time to write
[09:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71132 in launchpad "Stop probing a given mirror after we get a certain number of time outs on that mirror" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71132
[09:46] <kiko> newz2000: should we really, you think? 
[09:46] <kiko> I feel we should continue probing
[09:46] <kiko> until somebody turns it off
[09:46] <newz2000> hmmm... 
[09:47] <newz2000> I don't know, I'm under the impression the mirror maintainers really want to be active, 
[09:47] <newz2000> so I'd say, if it doesn't cost us anything, keep probing
[09:47] <newz2000> when we do frequent updates on the download list they'll disappear and re-appear as they get overwhelmed and later recover
[09:50] <kiko> same here.
[09:58] <Znarl> There shouldn't be any mirrors being overwhelmed at this point in Edgy's life.
[09:58] <kiko> man staging is slow.
[09:59] <Znarl> The problem we're seeing now is that mirrors with good national bandwidth but poor international bandwidth fail when probed so will never get listed.  
[09:59] <Znarl> ...it's a complex problem to solve.
[10:00] <kiko> interesting
[10:00] <kiko> stub, staging seems hosed...
[10:00] <kiko> everything times out
[10:01] <newz2000> good thing I got my mirror list already
[10:44] <salgado> newz2000, we should have some new mirrors on staging's RSS feed
[10:45] <salgado> last probe enabled 8 mirrors that were previously disabled
[10:45] <newz2000> ok, I'll update the site. Thanks.
[10:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71144 in rosetta "PO template +edit form needs unique validation for translation domain field." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71144
[10:53] <kiko> stub, ping me when you have a moment ok?
[10:53] <stub> kiko: pong
[10:54] <kiko> stub, want to go over yesterday's work?
[10:54] <stub> Not really :-)
[10:54] <kiko> what if I DEMANDED it :-)
[10:54] <stub> I would grudgingly make an effort
[10:55] <stub> Despite the nice comforting glow of a lunch well eaten that makes me want to take a nap
[10:57] <SteveA> mpt: ping
[11:01] <ddaa> ping of death
[11:01] <stub> So malcc is probably the busiest bee, being the drafter of a number of soyuz sprints. 
[11:02] <kiko> stub, and have the sprints gone well, I wonder?
[11:02] <stub> There was a PostgreSQL meetup with some community people yesterday which was good
[11:02] <kiko> does he have outstanding questions?
[11:02] <kiko> stub, ah, cool! did tom lane show up? 
[11:03] <stub> One of them attended the rosetta db optimization sprint, pretty much confirming my ideas re: distributed db stuff but offering some useful ideas with rosetta searching
[11:03] <stub> No Tom. Jeff Berkus.
[11:03] <kiko> ah.
[11:03] <kiko> tlane is the master
[11:03] <kiko> stub, confirming your ideas: i.e. bad news? 
[11:04] <stub> No - just approaches we can go with when it is worth while
[11:04] <stub> Jeff Berkus is sort of the coordinator of the whole effort. Tom is primarily the implementer and maintainer of the planner.
[11:04] <kiko> okay, cool. is mark's plan feasible, stub?
[11:05] <stub> Its feasible, but pointless at this stage.
[11:05] <kiko> okay
[11:05] <stub> We might have to start worrying when we get to around 100 mill rows, so we have a year or two.
[11:06] <kiko> mmkay.
[11:06] <stub> (currently 10-15 mill per release, but that might increase. But then again, we might want to toss old information from unsupported releases too)
[11:06] <kiko> stub, we could also.. well.. collapse this sideways somehow
[11:06] <kiko> so that only stuff that changed was actually added to the DB
[11:06] <kiko> that was my idea anyway.
[11:07] <ddaa> kiko: why do I get this impression you'd like to reimplement zodb?
[11:07] <stub> If we don't need the information for anything, sure. But I thought we needed that sort of thing in the db for suggestions etc.
[11:07] <kiko> ddaa, I already wrote an indexer for it..
[11:08] <kiko> stub, well, suggestions for older releases are still valid in this release (really)
[11:08] <kiko> stub, so what you want to capture is the accepted submission for this release, and for older ones
[11:08] <kiko> however for the majority of strings the accepted submission is the same if the string hasn't changed
[11:08] <kiko> so...
[11:09] <stub> I'm told the linkages need to remain because when we offer suggestions, we also state the context that the suggestion came from
[11:09] <stub> If we are prepared to throw away that context, then sure.
[11:09] <stub> We just need translations with a link to a message id
[11:09] <kiko> we can tell the context the suggestion first came in from
[11:09] <kiko> which will be captured.
[11:10] <SteveA> stub: please tell mpt that I want to talk with him soon
[11:10] <stub> We can discuss this further next week anyway. Yesterday we ran with Mark's suggestion and dropped another 40M row table
[11:10] <kiko> good job.
[11:11] <kiko> stub, how did BjornT do?
[11:12] <stub> SteveA: Just did a circuit - he isn't back from Lunch yet
[11:12] <stub> BjornT: ping
[11:12] <stub> dunno :)
[11:13] <stub> brief discussions about debian bug imports...
[11:13] <kiko> ah?
[11:13] <stub> Talking with martin today about cve tracking
[11:14] <kiko> stub, did you guys get some time writing up, btw? how did carlos/danilo progress on the language teams thing?
[11:14] <stub> language teams got superceeded I believe by another spec
[11:15] <stub> People have been writing up their stuff
[11:15] <kiko> good job
[11:15] <BjornT> kiko: basically simon doesn't want any debian bug imports; it's more important to get people to link to the external bugs instead.
[11:15] <stub> And keeping Launchpad up todate in general
[11:16] <kiko> BjornT, ai ai
[11:16] <kiko> BjornT, any chat on how to display foreign bug comments?
[11:16] <stub> I thought we were only making the support tracker handle foreign enquiries?
[11:17] <stub> (at least on the current roadmap)
[11:17] <BjornT> kiko: no, not yet. i'll see if mpt has some time today to discuss it.
[11:17] <kiko> BjornT, it would be ideal
[11:17] <kiko> stub, foreign as in "from other bugtrackers", sorry
[11:19] <ddaa> up to date...
[11:19] <kiko> BjornT, cool. how did you think your chats went? I liked to see "closing bugs from changelogs there!"
[11:19] <ddaa> I'm having some fun gardening some very old svn import requests...
[11:19] <ddaa> like one requested an import from svn.progeny.com...
[11:19] <somerville32> Hi
[11:19] <stub> closing bugs from changelogs was discussed in Singapore
[11:20] <BjornT> kiko: ah, right, we did discuss "closing bugs from changelogs" yesterday!
[11:20] <somerville32> I have more questions :D
[11:20] <kiko> I saw the writeup today
[11:20] <stub> So anyone looking at that should catch up with tims Launchpad bazaar integration stuff (hopefully specced)
[11:20] <somerville32> How does specification roles work when you assign a group to them?
[11:21] <BjornT> kiko: it will be quite simple to do, the hard thing is to find a place in soyus to plug in to
[11:21] <kiko> BjornT, that part of soyuz is a quagmire.
[11:21] <kiko> BjornT, the CVE handling using the email interface is genius
[11:21] <ddaa> stub: there was no significant progress that I'm aware of
[11:21] <ddaa> on bug-branches integration
[11:22] <ddaa> there was some good discussion some time ago with jamesh about closing bugs from bzr revision properties
[11:23] <LarstiQ> bzr revision properties?
[11:23] <ddaa> "closing bugs from changelog" is risky because we do not know that the changelog is talking of Launchpad...
[11:23] <ddaa> LarstiQ: like the branch nick
[11:23] <LarstiQ> would this tie into 'bzr commit --lp-closes 12345'?
[11:24] <ddaa> something like this
[11:24] <LarstiQ> ddaa: right
[11:24] <ddaa> I'm not sure about the specific UI poolie is championing right now
[11:26] <ddaa> https://launchpad.canonical.com/AutomaticBugBranchLinks
[11:27] <BjornT> kiko: we discussed the bug reporting tool as well. no changes were required to the existing lp spec, though.
[11:27] <kiko> BjornT, did stub and you find an agreement on the blob storage thing?
[11:27] <ddaa> LarstiQ: sorry about that, It's a url for BjornT, stub and kiko
[11:27] <LarstiQ> aww
[11:27] <kiko> LarstiQ, blame SteveA for that
[11:28] <LarstiQ> I'm afraid I'm rather used to this happening by now.
[11:28] <stub> kiko: blob storage is under control. mdz seemed happy to let me do it my way. I just have to labotimize mark's patch.
[11:28] <kiko> okay, nifty
[11:28] <stub> c/timize/tomize/
[11:29] <kiko> as long as it gets done; I think mark's aggravation there is that you said "that's crap" and then didn't do the actual lobotomy :-)
[11:29] <stub> Mark might not be happy though, so I must remember to use a misleading commit message ;)
[11:29] <ddaa> one important property of this design is that the branch-scanner remains idempotent, there are no dependency on the branch scanner seeing the data appear in a specific sequence.
[11:29] <kiko> he was okay with it as long as it got done.. when it didn't I got the sharp end of the stick
[11:29] <stub> Nobody has given me a timeframe yet, so it keeps getting bumped for more urgent tasks
[11:29] <kiko> I know you were busy etc etc
[11:29] <kiko> yeah, well, it's "very high", not "critical"
[11:30] <kiko> but it should show up for early feisty
[11:30] <stub> it is also useless until there is a client that actually uses it
[11:30] <kiko> so that people can get the client into feisty soon
[11:30] <kiko> agreed
[11:30] <kiko> early feisty is optimal for that
[11:30] <SteveA> well... 
[11:30] <stub> ok.
[11:30] <SteveA> the writers of a client would say
[11:30] <SteveA> "this is useless until there's a server that actually uses it"
[11:31] <kiko> greed
[11:32] <stub> Sure. But I don't know a) who is working on the client and b) when they plan to do it
[11:32] <kiko> stub, I'm surprised you haven't talked about /that/ with mdz, tbh
[11:32] <kiko> he definitely can tell you and help you sort that out
[11:32] <stub> I will - just thinking about it now
[11:33] <kiko> cool
[11:33] <stub> ie. who to talk to after landing marks patch to confirm it actually does what they need.
[11:33] <kiko> just funny you'd have chatted with him on the topic and not cover the client side. maybe mdz is out in mars. :)
[11:34] <stub> Well... implementing a service is always much easier if there are no users of the system.
[11:34] <kiko> heh
[11:34] <stub> (If software crashes the server and there is no client, does the sysadmin make a sound?)
[11:34] <kiko> esse stub
[11:36] <kiko> BjornT, I'm approving InitialUbuntuCVETracking ok?
[11:36] <kiko> it's got what I think is a good summary for the initial step
[11:37] <BjornT> kiko: well, let's wait a bit. i haven't gotten pitti to take a final look at it yet
[11:38] <stub> Still no mdz - might be in a private meeting
[11:39] <kiko> k
[11:40] <SteveA> elmo: ping
[11:41] <SteveA> stub: you might need to ask for a more advanced bzr on the app servers
[11:41] <SteveA> stub: seems that bzr version-info is recent
[11:41] <SteveA> it's not on the bzr on brilliant, for example, so I've had to arse around with the makefile there
[11:42] <guerby> hi, I'm unable to find a link with a list of bugs I reported on launchpad, any idea?
[11:42] <kiko> guerby, yes. visited /people/guerby/+reportedbugs
[11:43] <guerby> https://launchpad.net/people/guerby/+reportedbugs => 404 not found
[11:43] <kiko> grumble grumble
[11:44] <kiko> what's your launchpad username?
[11:44] <guerby> kiko, https://launchpad.net/people/laurent-guerby/+reportedbugs
[11:44] <guerby> got it
[11:44] <kiko> there you go
[11:44] <guerby> You have to click on assigned then you have a link to reported
[11:44] <kiko> yeah
[11:44] <kiko> it is bong
[11:45] <guerby> I think it would be better to have reported (or both) on the default user page => more users than dev :)
[11:45] <kiko> but soon it will be bugs.launchpad.net/people/laurent-guerby
[11:45] <stub> asuka seems fine, and is running 0.11
[11:45] <kiko> and it will make more sense
[11:45] <SteveA> stub: brilliant is on 0.10
[11:46] <stub> gangotri is out of date
[11:46] <stub> (0.8!)
[11:46] <guerby> kiko, as long as it is linked :) is there a place in malone to record suggestion? how to improve suggests IRC or email (but that seems low-tech :)
[11:46] <kiko> guerby, sure -- /products/malone/+filebug 
[11:47] <guerby> kiko, ok thanks, will do!
[11:47] <kiko> enjoy 
[11:47] <guerby> kiko, thanks for the help
[11:47] <stub> SteveA: We should be able to use the bzr in the launchpad tree, shouldn't we?
[11:51] <kiko> stub, so the patch applied to staging successfully?
[11:51] <kiko> the rosetta patch I mean
[11:52] <stub> The updated one that might not have landed yet, yes.
[11:52] <SteveA> stub: yes, but I wouldn't depend on it
[11:52] <kiko> stub, oh. :)
[11:54] <kiko> carlos, ping?
[11:55] <SteveA> stub: any sign of mpt yet?
[11:55] <stub> no
[11:56] <malcc> I passed mpt on my way up, he was chatting with someone in the lobby
[11:56] <kiko> hey cprov-afk 
[11:56] <kiko> or malcc 
[11:56] <malcc> Mind you that was 45 minutes ago
[11:56] <malcc> Hey kiko
[11:57] <kiko> malcc, can you update the summary/rationale for NMAF so that it's clear that we are doing this now for PPAs, and have the existing content there modified slightly to say that these are benefits of using this implementation instead of AF for Ubuntu?
[11:57] <kiko> https://launchpad.canonical.com/NoMoreAptFtparchive
[11:57] <kiko> malcc, then I can approve it
[11:57] <malcc> Sure
[11:58] <kiko> thanks! ping me when done
[11:59] <carlos> kiko: pong
[11:59] <kiko> carlos, hey there
[11:59] <kiko> carlos, are you having another TranslationLicensing meeting?
[11:59] <carlos> kiko: hi
[11:59] <carlos> no, it's a Draft session
[12:00] <kiko> carlos, there's stuff there that still needs Mako?
[12:00] <carlos> kiko: yes, he needs to answer one question
[12:00] <kiko> okay
[12:00] <carlos> and he's still thinking on it
[12:00] <carlos> it's already noted on the wiki
[12:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71155 in malone "User page should have a link to reportedbugs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71155
[12:00] <kiko> carlos, I saw, cool. ping me when you have text so I can look over it
[12:00] <carlos> at least he was thinking on it yesterday...
[12:00] <carlos> kiko: the wiki already has text
[12:01] <kiko> carlos, okay, stay on it, as you only have him tomorrow
[12:01] <carlos> kiko: also, danilo was handling it
[12:01] <kiko> carlos, I expect you will edit it further, yes?
[12:01] <kiko> carlos, yeah, but danilo's offline
[12:01] <carlos> he's in the bathroom ;-)
[12:01] <kiko> he should use loobuntu
[12:01] <carlos> :-P
[12:01] <kiko> the official distro of the toilet-empowered users
[12:02] <carlos> no, we prefer google's ones, they clean your ass with water! :-P
[12:02] <kiko> carlos, ok, tell him to ping me when he has text there
[12:02] <carlos> kiko: ok
[12:02] <kiko> TMI
[12:03] <kiko> malcc, please also add the Launchpad Entry for it when you do :-)
[12:03] <kiko> malcc, another thing. https://launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzBuilddImprovements says "Fix PAS bug". What PAS bug?
[12:04] <kiko> cool idea for the build whiteboard, malcc 
[12:05] <malcc> kiko: Yes, that could do with some context. And what about the whiteboarD?
[12:05] <kiko> the whiteboard is an awesome idea.
[12:05] <kiko> the diagnostics thing.
[12:06] <malcc> Ah that, that's infinity's idea that is
[12:06] <kiko> malcc, I already suggested filing bugs for the easy bits, right? (can't remember so just checking)
[12:07] <malcc> kiko: Yes you did. That's the plan, once the specs are finalised
[12:07] <kiko> malcc, okay, cool, I'm an old man
[12:07] <malcc> kiko: It'll give me something routine to do tomorrow afternoon when my brain is dead
[12:07] <kiko> malcc, the PAS thing.. is it for real?
[12:07] <malcc> kiko: It's a known bug, we talked about it before, let me find it
[12:08] <kiko> oh?
[12:08] <kiko> the bugs reported by kamion were actually not real bugs in PAS
[12:08] <kiko> but instead issues related to old builds being present and retried
[12:08] <kiko> maybe it's something else tho
[12:09] <kiko> BjornT, did you manage to get any statuses out of Mark for BugWorkFlow?
[12:09] <malcc> https://features.launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/65712
[12:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65712 in soyuz "Queuebuilder does the wrong thing when PAS changes" [High,In progress]  
[12:09] <kiko> BjornT, or sfllaw 
[12:10] <kiko> malcc, I think cprov-afk is already doing half of the "kill getBuildByArch" part, did you know?
[12:11] <kiko> malcc, but cool, this isn't actually a PAS issue, but more of a when-PAS-changes issue.
[12:11] <BjornT> kiko: no, didn't talk to mark about it. i and mpt specced out some new statuses that sfllaw approved of, though.
[12:11] <malcc> kiko: I didn't mean to cast aspertions on your PAS implementation, just describe the bug briefly ;)
[12:11] <kiko> BjornT, grab mark to get him to give you his notes, please!
[12:11] <sfllaw> BjornT: We're specing it out now.
[12:11] <sfllaw> But obby has died.
[12:11] <kiko> malcc, no seriously, PAS may have bugs, but if so I can fix them because the code is easy to me
[12:12] <kiko> malcc, the tests are easy to add
[12:12] <kiko> however, I'm just talking about the mechanical PAS decisions
[12:12] <kiko> one-shot
[12:12] <kiko> sfllaw, then use gobby. the lack of the g causes random flakiness
[12:13] <kiko> malcc, cprov: did you guys check out flacoste's suggestion? to use the virtualization thingy option 2?
[12:13] <cprov> malcc: thanks for the comments in NoMoreAptFtparchive.
[12:13] <malcc> kiko: Yup, I raised it, but it's not sufficiently secure
[12:13] <kiko> bogus
[12:14] <malcc> kiko: This is a pretty extreme case security-wise, we're giving code which may be a deliberate attack root-level access
[12:14] <malcc> kiko: It looks like the only answer is full virtualisation
[12:14] <kiko> IC
[12:14] <kiko> I thought root on the buildds was not a big deal
[12:14] <cprov> kiko: it's really up to the distro guys, I've read Vserver stuff, found it hard to setup, but it's just my oppinion
[12:14] <kiko> I see