[01:02] <mbiebl> Has anyone used upstart in combination with selinux?
[01:02] <mbiebl> I don't use selinux myself, I was just wondering.
[01:16] <ajmitch> mbiebl: yes, I have a hacked up patch for that to finish cleaning
[01:16] <mbiebl> ajmitch: cool, was it much effort to add selinux support?
[01:17] <mbiebl> Will you try to push the patch upstream?
[01:18] <ajmitch> not much effort & yes, of course
[01:20] <mbiebl> cool
[03:17] <frinov> hi. trying to figure out where default runlevel is set in edgy. looking thru /etc/event.d
[04:41] <matteo> can upstart handle dependencies?
[04:48] <_ion> He was in a hurry.
[04:57] <AlexExtreme> yeah...
[04:58] <AlexExtreme> it annoys me when people do that, they don't even give you a chance to answer :/
[05:01] <_ion> It's more amusing than annoying to me. :-)
[05:01] <AlexExtreme> heh
[06:02] <Fry-kun> ookay.. so i got the system booting..
[06:03] <Fry-kun> turned out that i didn't change enough in the config files - telinit and shutdown need to point to their /usr/local/sbin/ variants
[06:03] <Fry-kun> i see no major problems in /var/log/boot
[06:04] <Fry-kun> but i still don't get gdm greeter :(
[06:04] <AlexExtreme> hold on, i know why :)
[06:04] <Fry-kun> if i log into the text terminal and run startx, it works with no problem
[06:04] <AlexExtreme> you have an rc5 file, right?
[06:04] <Fry-kun> yes
[06:05] <Keybuk> does "runlevel" say 5 or 2?
[06:05] <AlexExtreme> ok, hold on
[06:07] <Fry-kun> Keybuk: booted with a standard fc5 method right now - will try next time i boot with upstart
[06:08] <AlexExtreme> Fry-kun: http://pastebin.com/820508 - put that in a event.d/dm
[06:08] <AlexExtreme> next time you boot you should get gdm
[06:09] <Keybuk> oh, does Fedora start X from inittab?
[06:09] <Fry-kun> okay, sounds good
[06:10] <AlexExtreme> Keybuk: yes, frugalware does too
[06:10] <AlexExtreme> it's to get it to respawn if gdm dies
[06:12] <Keybuk> cool
[06:13] <wasabi_> Keybuk: Your upstart stuff ever going to come up? Want to just pick some time and do it?
[06:14] <wasabi_> The scheduler seems to be angry.
[06:14] <Keybuk> wasabi: I appear to have a free afternoon ;)
[06:14] <Keybuk> want to go over the stuff iwj did again
[06:14] <Keybuk> and then talk about the job state stuff
[06:15] <wasabi_> Yeah.
[06:15] <wasabi_> My only booking this afternoon is some java stuff at 15:00
[06:15] <wasabi_> Anytime after or before is cool.
[06:16] <wasabi_> Does ian have a draft of the syntax anywhere?
[06:16] <Keybuk> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/d/upstart.text
[06:16] <Keybuk> it's complete crack, of course
[06:16] <wasabi_> that guy's a nut. but pretty cool.
[06:17] <Keybuk> smart, but ... odd
[06:17] <wasabi_> like the rest of us.
[06:17] <Fry-kun> AlexExtreme: by the way, about that advice from the mailing list (to set PATH to /usr/local/sbin first).. combined with different paths for getty, rc, et.al. in various distros - wouldn't it be easier on the end users if the paths were included from some upstart config file?
[06:18] <AlexExtreme> no
[06:18] <AlexExtreme> the preferred way would be to have a set of job files that work with different distros (in my opinion, of course)
[06:19] <wasabi_> My concern with ian's stuff is it's Very Complicated.
[06:20] <wasabi_> Both to implement and for a user to understand.
[06:20] <Keybuk> yeah
[06:20] <Keybuk> and I think we can implements ian's stuff with /bin/sh :)
[06:20] <wasabi_> Yeah. Heh.
[06:20] <Keybuk> on ...
[06:20] <Keybuk> script
[06:20] <Keybuk>  ...
[06:20] <Keybuk> end script
[06:20] <Keybuk> would have the same effect
[06:20] <Keybuk> we just need an "initctl wait-for"
[06:20] <wasabi_> ian: "It must represent any state machine."
[06:20] <wasabi_> me: "Why?"
[06:21] <wasabi_> I don't think I like the idea of upstart tracking state of things on the system anyways. The idea of a simple event system is appealing.
[06:21] <wasabi_> And any knowledge upstart has is out of date.
[06:21] <Keybuk> indeed
[06:22] <Fry-kun> Alex: but /usr/local vs / will still be there, do you want to maintain a copy for each distro for each install version? or make users change 20 files just to start the system?
[06:22] <AlexExtreme> well...
[06:23] <AlexExtreme> upstart is an init system, it will require some DIY, as with any other init system :)
[06:23] <Fry-kun> haha
[06:24] <Fry-kun> i thought ubuntu philosophy was above these issues ;)
[06:24] <AlexExtreme> well
[06:24] <AlexExtreme> upstart is replacing a core system component :P
[06:24] <Fry-kun> that's true
[06:25] <AlexExtreme> anyway don't ask me about the ubuntu philosophy, i'm not even a ubuntu user ;)
[06:25] <Fry-kun> but it's not very hard to make it painless
[06:25] <Fry-kun> lol ok
[06:26] <Fry-kun> anyway i'll go try to boot up with my new init system
[06:30] <Fry-kun> yay, it works1
[06:30] <Fry-kun> takes a while after i get the tty login, but it boots up fair and square
[06:31] <AlexExtreme> great :)
[06:31] <Fry-kun> hope there isn't anything else that doesn't start up by itself
[06:31] <Fry-kun> <.<
[06:31] <Fry-kun> >.>
[06:32] <Fry-kun> now the main (PITA) task - converting all services to use upstart instead of sysv
[06:33] <Fry-kun> is there a set of examples somewhere? maybe even a repository of common services pre-converted
[06:33] <AlexExtreme> nope
[06:34] <Fry-kun> darn
[06:34] <Fry-kun> oh well, more fun this way i suppose
[06:36] <Fry-kun> oh yeah, it's implied of course.. but to make it explicit: Thank you, Alex!
[06:36] <AlexExtreme> np :)
[06:39] <Fry-kun> is it just me or did the getting-started doc change from /usr/local to /opt/upstart ?
[06:40] <AlexExtreme> yes
[06:41] <Fry-kun> oh good, i thought i was losing my mind
[06:41] <Fry-kun> so what's the reasoning?
[06:42] <AlexExtreme> no idea :)
[06:43] <Fry-kun> :D
[06:52] <Fry-kun> oh yeah.. so let's say I change half of my services to use upstart instead of sysv -- that means i have to remove their sysv versions (..right? or else they'll try to run 2 copies at once) -- so how do i set up the system to be able to boot using either upstart or sysv (in case upstart fails)?
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[08:51] <Fry-kun> found another problem - apparently the limited user can't reboot/shutdown
[08:51] <_ion> Sounds more like a feature.
[08:51] <Fry-kun> it complains: "shutdown: /dev/initctl : No such file or directory"
[08:51] <_ion> if you mean a non-root user.
[08:51] <Fry-kun> lol
[08:51] <Fry-kun> yes
[08:52] <_ion> There's sudo, you know?
[08:52] <Keybuk> Fry-kun: wrong shutdown
[08:52] <Fry-kun> in fedora, it uses a symbolic link to consolehelper
[08:52] <AlexExtreme> Fry-kun: you need to use the upstart shutdown program
[08:52] <Fry-kun> which in turn runs userhelper, which checks if the user is allowed to run the program
[08:52] <AlexExtreme> if you installed it in /usr/local, do sudo /usr/local/sbin/shutdown
[08:53] <Fry-kun> then if so, runs
[08:53] <Fry-kun> X doesn't do that :P
[08:53] <Fry-kun> it just runs "shutdown" - and then the system says "FU" and X goes "oh well, i'll just restart"
[08:53] <Fry-kun> and starts up again
[08:53] <AlexExtreme> well
[08:54] <AlexExtreme> you'll have to run it yourself manually ;)
[08:54] <Fry-kun> which means i have to run shutdown/reboot from a console every time X(
[08:54] <Fry-kun> gee, thanks :(
[08:54] <Fry-kun> there must be a better way...
[08:57] <Fry-kun> man consolehelper:    "[...]  programs like /sbin/shutdown  are paired  with  a  link  from /usr/bin/shutdown to /usr/bin/consolehelper.  Then when non-root users [...]  call  the "shutdown" program, consolehelper will be invoked to authenticate the action and then invoke /sbin/shutdown.  (consolehelper itself has no priviledges; it calls the userhelper(8) program do the real work.)"
[08:58] <Fry-kun> "So to make /sbin/foo or /usr/sbin/foo managed, you  need  to  create  a  link  from /usr/bin/foo to /usr/bin/consolehelper and create the file /etc/pam.d/foo, normally using the pam_console(8) PAM module"
[08:58] <Fry-kun> will see if that works
[08:58] <_ion> Replace /sbin/shutdown with the upstart version.
[08:59] <AlexExtreme> but that'll break if he goes back to sysvinit
[08:59] <_ion> Then put the original file back again.
[08:59] <AlexExtreme> but he switches between the 2 ;)
[08:59] <Fry-kun> when it breaks, i won't be able to
[09:00] <Fry-kun> if/when
[09:00] <_ion> How so?
[09:00] <_ion> Just boot with init=/bin/bash
[09:00] <Fry-kun> gah
[09:00] <Fry-kun> but.. but... !
[09:34] <Fry-kun> i was thinking to make a copy of rc.* in etc to something like rc_upstart.*, so as to make both methods work
[09:34] <Fry-kun> what do you think?
[10:08] <phsdv> Fry-kun, making a copy to rc_upstart.* does not change your shutdown issue, right? It is still /sbin/shutdown in X
[10:15] <Fry-kun> right
[10:15] <Fry-kun> but it's another issue that i'm trying to solve
[10:18] <phsdv> ok, sorry
[10:28] <phsdv> Fry-kun: I went to the logs, you want to be able to boot from either upstart or sysvinit, correct?
[10:42] <phsdv> I do not think you have to make copies for being able to boot from both. I did not do it and I can boot from both.
[11:24] <Fry-kun> the reason i want to use upstart in the first place is to be able to boot faster than i do with sysv - but if there's some problem with upstart, i don't want to lose more time than it takes for upstart to boot
[11:25] <Fry-kun> in other words, i can't afford to drop into single user mode just to switch to a working configuration