=== Amaranth [i=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #upstart === Keybuk [i=scott@conference/ubuntuconf/x-454a6e4fed6913be] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@e180073004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #upstart [01:02] Has anyone used upstart in combination with selinux? [01:02] I don't use selinux myself, I was just wondering. [01:16] mbiebl: yes, I have a hacked up patch for that to finish cleaning [01:16] ajmitch: cool, was it much effort to add selinux support? [01:17] Will you try to push the patch upstream? [01:18] not much effort & yes, of course [01:20] cool === Keybuk [i=scott@conference/ubuntuconf/x-57fe57333d405d0d] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [i=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #upstart === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D87DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #upstart === johnnybuoy [n=johnny@unaffiliated/johnnybuoy] has joined #upstart === juergbi [n=juerg@80-219-26-249.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #upstart === nibil [n=nibil@adsl-static-3-105.uklinux.net] has joined #upstart === jams [n=jams@CPE-72-131-6-174.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #upstart === frinov [n=frinov@203.114.50.15] has joined #upstart [03:17] hi. trying to figure out where default runlevel is set in edgy. looking thru /etc/event.d === Md [i=md@freenode/staff/md] has joined #upstart === matteo [n=matteo@desktop.techno-inside.net] has joined #upstart [04:41] can upstart handle dependencies? [04:48] <_ion> He was in a hurry. [04:57] yeah... [04:58] it annoys me when people do that, they don't even give you a chance to answer :/ [05:01] <_ion> It's more amusing than annoying to me. :-) [05:01] heh === Keybuk [i=scott@conference/ubuntuconf/x-e3f6237adc4e6cbd] has joined #upstart === Fry-kun [n=kostya@h-66-166-233-66.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #upstart [06:02] ookay.. so i got the system booting.. [06:03] turned out that i didn't change enough in the config files - telinit and shutdown need to point to their /usr/local/sbin/ variants [06:03] i see no major problems in /var/log/boot [06:04] but i still don't get gdm greeter :( [06:04] hold on, i know why :) [06:04] if i log into the text terminal and run startx, it works with no problem [06:04] you have an rc5 file, right? [06:04] yes [06:05] does "runlevel" say 5 or 2? [06:05] ok, hold on [06:07] Keybuk: booted with a standard fc5 method right now - will try next time i boot with upstart [06:08] Fry-kun: http://pastebin.com/820508 - put that in a event.d/dm [06:08] next time you boot you should get gdm [06:09] oh, does Fedora start X from inittab? [06:09] okay, sounds good [06:10] Keybuk: yes, frugalware does too [06:10] it's to get it to respawn if gdm dies === madduck [n=madduck@debian/developer/madduck] has left #upstart [] [06:12] cool === wasabi_ [i=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #upstart [06:13] Keybuk: Your upstart stuff ever going to come up? Want to just pick some time and do it? [06:14] The scheduler seems to be angry. [06:14] wasabi: I appear to have a free afternoon ;) [06:14] want to go over the stuff iwj did again [06:14] and then talk about the job state stuff [06:15] Yeah. [06:15] My only booking this afternoon is some java stuff at 15:00 [06:15] Anytime after or before is cool. [06:16] Does ian have a draft of the syntax anywhere? [06:16] http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/d/upstart.text [06:16] it's complete crack, of course [06:16] that guy's a nut. but pretty cool. [06:17] smart, but ... odd [06:17] like the rest of us. [06:17] AlexExtreme: by the way, about that advice from the mailing list (to set PATH to /usr/local/sbin first).. combined with different paths for getty, rc, et.al. in various distros - wouldn't it be easier on the end users if the paths were included from some upstart config file? [06:18] no [06:18] the preferred way would be to have a set of job files that work with different distros (in my opinion, of course) [06:19] My concern with ian's stuff is it's Very Complicated. [06:20] Both to implement and for a user to understand. [06:20] yeah [06:20] and I think we can implements ian's stuff with /bin/sh :) [06:20] Yeah. Heh. [06:20] on ... [06:20] script [06:20] ... [06:20] end script [06:20] would have the same effect [06:20] we just need an "initctl wait-for" [06:20] ian: "It must represent any state machine." [06:20] me: "Why?" [06:21] I don't think I like the idea of upstart tracking state of things on the system anyways. The idea of a simple event system is appealing. [06:21] And any knowledge upstart has is out of date. [06:21] indeed [06:22] Alex: but /usr/local vs / will still be there, do you want to maintain a copy for each distro for each install version? or make users change 20 files just to start the system? [06:22] well... [06:23] upstart is an init system, it will require some DIY, as with any other init system :) [06:23] haha [06:24] i thought ubuntu philosophy was above these issues ;) [06:24] well [06:24] upstart is replacing a core system component :P [06:24] that's true [06:25] anyway don't ask me about the ubuntu philosophy, i'm not even a ubuntu user ;) [06:25] but it's not very hard to make it painless [06:25] lol ok [06:26] anyway i'll go try to boot up with my new init system === Fry-kun [n=kostya@h-66-166-233-66.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #upstart [06:30] yay, it works1 [06:30] takes a while after i get the tty login, but it boots up fair and square [06:31] great :) [06:31] hope there isn't anything else that doesn't start up by itself [06:31] <.< [06:31] >.> [06:32] now the main (PITA) task - converting all services to use upstart instead of sysv [06:33] is there a set of examples somewhere? maybe even a repository of common services pre-converted [06:33] nope [06:34] darn [06:34] oh well, more fun this way i suppose [06:36] oh yeah, it's implied of course.. but to make it explicit: Thank you, Alex! [06:36] np :) [06:39] is it just me or did the getting-started doc change from /usr/local to /opt/upstart ? [06:40] yes [06:41] oh good, i thought i was losing my mind [06:41] so what's the reasoning? [06:42] no idea :) [06:43] :D [06:52] oh yeah.. so let's say I change half of my services to use upstart instead of sysv -- that means i have to remove their sysv versions (..right? or else they'll try to run 2 copies at once) -- so how do i set up the system to be able to boot using either upstart or sysv (in case upstart fails)? === phsdv [n=paul@88.122.35.231] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D87DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [i=travis@conference/ubuntuconf/x-f405ff1e7b89cab3] has joined #upstart === wasabi_ [i=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [i=travis@conference/ubuntuconf/x-f405ff1e7b89cab3] has joined #upstart === phsdv [n=paul@88.122.35.231] has joined #upstart === Keybuk [i=scott@conference/ubuntuconf/x-e3f6237adc4e6cbd] has joined #upstart === jams [n=jams@CPE-72-131-6-174.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #upstart === juergbi [n=juerg@80-219-26-249.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #upstart === Plouj [n=Plouj@dsl-207-112-93-197.tor.primus.ca] has joined #upstart === tonfa [n=tonfa@footwar.residence.ens-lyon.fr] has joined #upstart === cortana [n=sam@62-31-146-25.cable.ubr12.azte.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #upstart === thom [n=thom@195.54.228.42] has joined #upstart === ajmitch [n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch] has joined #upstart === sladen [i=paul@193.28.45.41] has joined #upstart === _ion [i=johan@kiviniemi.name] has joined #upstart === AlexExtreme [n=AlexExtr@frugalware/developer/AlexExtreme] has joined #upstart === crazy [n=crazy@frugalware/developer/crazy] has joined #upstart === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #upstart === jvtm [i=jvtm@atlantis.spoon.fi] has joined #upstart === Artanicus [i=kuitunej@lehtori.cc.tut.fi] has joined #upstart [08:06] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu] Welcome to #ubuntu! Please read the channel topic and consider spending some time on the FAQ mentioned there [08:06] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-server] Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support) [08:07] !alindeman:*! Hi all, a rotation server just split. It's being removed and we're looking into it further. [08:09] !alindeman:*! As always, if you have further questions or issues, please contact an on-duty staff member ( /stats p ) === mbiebl [n=michael@e180124065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [i=travis@conference/ubuntuconf/x-9b28811cdcc3cf01] has joined #upstart === wasabi_ [i=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #upstart === matteo [n=matteo@desktop.techno-inside.net] has joined #upstart === Fry-kun [n=kostya@h-67-100-89-239.snfccasy.covad.net] has joined #upstart [08:51] found another problem - apparently the limited user can't reboot/shutdown [08:51] <_ion> Sounds more like a feature. [08:51] it complains: "shutdown: /dev/initctl : No such file or directory" [08:51] <_ion> if you mean a non-root user. [08:51] lol [08:51] yes [08:52] <_ion> There's sudo, you know? [08:52] Fry-kun: wrong shutdown [08:52] in fedora, it uses a symbolic link to consolehelper [08:52] Fry-kun: you need to use the upstart shutdown program [08:52] which in turn runs userhelper, which checks if the user is allowed to run the program [08:52] if you installed it in /usr/local, do sudo /usr/local/sbin/shutdown [08:53] then if so, runs [08:53] X doesn't do that :P [08:53] it just runs "shutdown" - and then the system says "FU" and X goes "oh well, i'll just restart" [08:53] and starts up again [08:53] well [08:54] you'll have to run it yourself manually ;) [08:54] which means i have to run shutdown/reboot from a console every time X( [08:54] gee, thanks :( [08:54] there must be a better way... [08:57] man consolehelper: "[...] programs like /sbin/shutdown are paired with a link from /usr/bin/shutdown to /usr/bin/consolehelper. Then when non-root users [...] call the "shutdown" program, consolehelper will be invoked to authenticate the action and then invoke /sbin/shutdown. (consolehelper itself has no priviledges; it calls the userhelper(8) program do the real work.)" [08:58] "So to make /sbin/foo or /usr/sbin/foo managed, you need to create a link from /usr/bin/foo to /usr/bin/consolehelper and create the file /etc/pam.d/foo, normally using the pam_console(8) PAM module" [08:58] will see if that works [08:58] <_ion> Replace /sbin/shutdown with the upstart version. [08:59] but that'll break if he goes back to sysvinit [08:59] <_ion> Then put the original file back again. [08:59] but he switches between the 2 ;) [08:59] when it breaks, i won't be able to [09:00] if/when [09:00] <_ion> How so? [09:00] <_ion> Just boot with init=/bin/bash [09:00] gah [09:00] but.. but... ! === maro [n=mark@0x55511dab.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #upstart [09:34] i was thinking to make a copy of rc.* in etc to something like rc_upstart.*, so as to make both methods work [09:34] what do you think? [10:08] Fry-kun, making a copy to rc_upstart.* does not change your shutdown issue, right? It is still /sbin/shutdown in X [10:15] right [10:15] but it's another issue that i'm trying to solve [10:18] ok, sorry === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart [10:28] Fry-kun: I went to the logs, you want to be able to boot from either upstart or sysvinit, correct? [10:42] I do not think you have to make copies for being able to boot from both. I did not do it and I can boot from both. === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D87DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === Fry-kun [n=kostya@h-67-100-89-239.snfccasy.covad.net] has joined #upstart [11:24] the reason i want to use upstart in the first place is to be able to boot faster than i do with sysv - but if there's some problem with upstart, i don't want to lose more time than it takes for upstart to boot [11:25] in other words, i can't afford to drop into single user mode just to switch to a working configuration === Amaranth [i=travis@conference/ubuntuconf/x-291d96dffd4d16b6] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [i=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #upstart === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [i=travis@conference/ubuntuconf/x-16d89e02142e95bc] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@e180124065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #upstart