[12:13] <pitti> slomo_: yay dbus 0.95 breaking *everything* :(
[12:14] <slomo_> pitti: i'm working on it right now... i wonder why everything works fine for me here though :/
[12:14] <pitti> slomo_: does this require a mega update of death and a soname bump, or is that a bug?
[12:14] <slomo_> pitti: it's a bug imho
[12:14] <pitti> ok *phew*
[12:14] <ajmitch> it's caused lots of pain :)
[12:14] <slomo_> normal warnings that could easily be ignored are fatal now and cause abort()
[12:14] <gnomefreak> yep .95
[12:17] <gnomefreak> is there something i can do to try and produce the dbus bug? i havent seen errors
[12:17] <slomo_> gnomefreak: call lshal for example
[12:18] <gnomefreak> that looks like it did it
[01:13] <keescook> pitti: okay, i've updated the def-net-services wiki.  added one thing I remembered from the discussion, and cleaned up some other tiny details.
[01:13] <pitti> keescook: cheers
[01:30] <Keybuk> lamont: pingy wingy ding ding
[01:31] <lamont> eh?
[01:31] <lamont> Keybuk: in the cool-kids room
[01:31] <Keybuk> lamont: __thread on hppa?
[01:31] <lamont> heh
[01:31] <lamont> what?
[01:31] <Keybuk> it doesn't exist?
[01:32] <Keybuk> does hppa not have TLS?
[01:32] <lamont> what suite?
[01:32] <lamont> Keybuk: not until feisty
[01:32] <Keybuk> unstable
[01:32] <lamont> no.  sid sucks
[01:32] <Keybuk> ok
[01:32] <lamont> hppa will not get it for etch
[01:32] <Keybuk> so it's in feisty?
[01:32] <Keybuk> what added it?
[01:33] <lamont> new glibc
[01:33] <kylem> moo.
[01:34] <azeem> Keybuk: experimental should have it
[01:34] <jbailey> azeem: Need new binutils, too.
[01:34] <lamont> Keybuk: more to the point - TLS and NPTL were what killed edgy/hppa
[01:34] <azeem> ah
[01:34] <infinity> kylem: I sneak past to bun.
[01:35] <Mithrandir> infinity: your caps lock key is broken.
[01:35] <infinity> It's mapped to CTRL.
[01:36] <Fujitsu> :O
[01:36] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: You've got a sane nick again!
[01:36] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: indeed
[01:37] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: if only we could convince bhale ;-)
[01:38] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[01:39] <Fujitsu> (Hi LaserJock)
[01:39] <minghua> does tseng has a special meaning, too?
[02:02] <bhale> minghua: no
[02:02] <bhale> minghua: sorry
[02:02] <minghua> bhale: just curious.  :-)
[02:03] <bhale> i had it since 97 or something like that
[02:03] <bhale> its had enough
[02:04] <minghua> I was doubly-shocked the other day when I realized the term MOTU was from comic He-Man, and that I actually watched He-Man cartoon but didn't recognize it
[02:04] <HrdwrBoB> hahaha
[02:04] <HrdwrBoB> you didn't know?
[02:05] <minghua> so I figure I'd better ask this time
[02:05] <minghua> how am I supposed to know?
[02:05] <minghua> the He-Man I watched was in Chinese
[02:06] <Mithrandir> bhale: you need to change to nv or firegl or something. :-P
[02:07] <_ion> I have MOTU hardware in my rack.
[02:07] <bhale> Mithrandir: hah. I was unaware of the video card at the time
[02:07] <Mithrandir> bhale: heh. :-)
[02:07] <minghua> LaserJock: I bet I am not the only MOTU who doesn't know the source of the name ;-)
[02:08] <LaserJock> I think we just found a good way of thinning out the MOTUs
[02:08] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:08] <LaserJock> forget the packaging stuff
[02:08] <LaserJock> we'll administer a He-Man test
[02:12] <Fujitsu> minghua: I didn't know the source of it until it came up a couple of days ago :P
[02:13] <minghua> Fujitsu: I assume you never read/watched He-Man then?
[02:13] <bhale> minghua: when i was 6 I had a light up He-Man sword
[02:13] <LaserJock> sweet
[02:13] <bhale> damn right
[02:13] <Fujitsu> I hadn't heard of He-Man until a couple of days ago when I looked it up.
[02:14] <bhale> Fujitsu: holy crap
[02:14] <bhale> its a staple of 80's culture
[02:14] <minghua> For some strange reason Chinese TV channels played She-Ra first, then He-Man
[02:14] <LaserJock> that's just sad
[02:14] <LaserJock> kids these days ;-)
[02:14] <minghua> so I had always thought He-Man is the spin-off
[02:15] <bhale> Fujitsu: oh, no kidding
[02:15] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: no Magnum PI or the A-Team?
[02:15] <Fujitsu> I've not heard of either.
[02:16] <bhale> oh man
[02:16] <bhale> here it is
[02:16] <bhale> he man sword li
[02:16] <bhale> http://www.mastersunbound.com/He-Man%20toys%20Images/HM-LA-powersword.jpg
[02:16] <LaserJock> oh yeah, I remember those
[02:17] <jsgotangco> haha
[02:17] <bhale> I wish i still had it
[02:17] <bhale> we could use it to knight people
[02:19] <bddebian> Uhm, no
[02:19] <bddebian> I have a real Claymore you can use ;-)
[02:19] <bhale> we are talking about He-Man, not Braveheart
[02:19] <LaserJock> lol
[02:19] <bddebian> Yeah but that thing is fruity looking
[02:20] <bhale> dude, it was the 80's
[02:20] <LaserJock> "By the power...." -> "Freeeeedoooom" ;-)
[02:20] <Fujitsu> So, erm... Why was it decided to take a name from He-Man in the first place?
[02:20] <bhale> Fujitsu: uh
[02:20] <bhale> Fujitsu: universe? masters of?
[02:21] <jsgotangco> MoTU?
[02:21] <Fujitsu> bhale: Good point, I guess :P
[02:21] <jsgotangco> "universe" repo?
[02:21] <cjwatson> I'd need to check, but I think I may have coined the name
[02:21] <bhale> jsgotangco: Thanks, echo
[02:21] <cjwatson> to my shame ;-)
[02:21] <bhale> cjwatson: there werent that many other people around at the time :)
[02:22] <bhale> cjwatson: you're a likely suspect
[02:22] <bhale> Fujitsu: the only pressure is Mithrandir whimping out
[02:22] <cjwatson> nah, this is less easily confused with Keybuk in running discussions
[02:23] <LaserJock> now I feel the peer pressure :/
[02:23] <bhale> LaserJock: jmantha please
[02:23] <jdub> Fujitsu: cjwatson was sick of people telling him he was crazy, because they were mistaking/mistabbing him with Keybuk
[02:23] <Fujitsu> jdub: Hahah.
[02:23] <LaserJock> heh
[02:23] <Fujitsu> Mmm... dubgrant.
[02:23] <bhale> jdub is another likely suspect for MOTU
[02:23] <Mithrandir> bhale: dude, I'm back to running IRC off my previous host. :-)
[02:24] <Mithrandir> bhale: my switch to tfheen was just temporary and never was anything but it.
[02:24] <jdub> MOTU? unless i've been unceremoniously dumped, i'm still core! :)
[02:24] <bhale> jdub: the naming
[02:24] <cjwatson> jdub: he means for coining the term
[02:24] <jdub> oh
[02:24] <cjwatson> I can't find the first reference in the public IRC logs - by the time of the first instance of it, it had clearly already been coined
[02:25] <thom> cjwatson: oxford i think
[02:25] <jdub> Fujitsu: no, MOTU was thought of in meatspace
[02:25] <Fujitsu> ... meatspace?
[02:25] <jdub> as in the opposite of cyberspace
[02:25] <Mithrandir> mmm, meatspace.
[02:25] <cjwatson> thom: sounds plausible
[02:25] <Keybuk> COUNCIL GREY SKULL!
[02:25] <bhale> thom: oxford was before warty beta, right?
[02:25] <jdub> it must've been oxford, because that's when we came up with universe
[02:25] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: it was discussed in the big room in oxford, yes.
[02:25] <bhale> because motu was after
[02:25] <Fujitsu> Oh, coined at that first UDS in Oxford?
[02:26] <bhale> I don't buy that story
[02:26] <cjwatson> long before we called them UDSen, but yes
[02:26] <cjwatson> jdub: no, it wasn't
[02:26] <Fujitsu> jdub: There's nothing other than cyberspace! Real life doesn't exist.
[02:26] <jdub> cjwatson: sure?
[02:26] <cjwatson> jdub: universe was come up with on warthogs@ following a mail from Mark, which I found recently
[02:26] <jdub> ahr
[02:26] <cjwatson> the subject was "Blue Sky Bombshell", IIRC
[02:26] <bhale> i didnt make a public contribution until after hte public release
[02:26] <bhale> and MOTU was created soemtime after
[02:26] <jdub> oh right, we finalised all the policies to go with the names at oxford
[02:27] <cjwatson> bhale: it wasn't created until after preview, but it was dreamed up earlier
[02:27] <bhale> some weeks
[02:27] <jdub> bhale: making the MOTU team was, but the name was around for longer
[02:27] <Fujitsu> Are all the early lists archived somewhere easily accessible?
[02:27] <jdub> much like kubuntu
[02:27] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[02:27] <cjwatson> since we had to have a community before we could instantiate MOTU :)
[02:27] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: warthogs@ isn't - we'd need to sanitise it of corporate stuff
[02:27] <jdub> Fujitsu: old archives of sounder give some insights
[02:27] <bhale> huh, Mark seemed to have no plan at the time
[02:27] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[02:28] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[02:28] <cjwatson> was warthogs@, then Ubuntu stuff moved to sounder@, then ubuntu-*@ were created after the preview
[02:28] <Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu 
[02:28] <bhale> no-name-yet sounder 7 was ground breaking
[02:29] <Fujitsu> Something I've wondered for a while... why Warthogs!?
[02:29] <HrdwrBoB> warty warthog
[02:29] <jdub> warty warthog -> we were the warthogs
[02:29] <bhale> HrdwrBoB: no.
[02:29] <jdub> this was before "ubuntu"
[02:30] <bhale> HrdwrBoB: there was no official name until shortly before preview
[02:30] <cjwatson> Sounder 6 was the first one we announced on a non-private list, I believe
[02:30] <jdub> we knew what the first release would be called before we knew what the product would be called ;)
[02:30] <HrdwrBoB> bhale: I know
[02:30] <HrdwrBoB> I started using no-name-yet
[02:30] <bhale> daniels gave me 6 or 7 or so
[02:31] <cjwatson> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:54:44 +0100
[02:31] <cjwatson> From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@flatline.org.uk>
[02:31] <cjwatson> To: sounder@lists.no-name-yet.com
[02:31] <cjwatson> Subject: Sounder CD 6
[02:31] <cjwatson> first mail I have on sounder@
[02:31] <bhale> rock
[02:31] <Mithrandir> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:16:52 -0700
[02:31] <Mithrandir>  from mdz on warthogs talks about universe
[02:31] <Hobbsee> it's Mithrandir!!!!
[02:31] <Mithrandir> (with an explanation)
[02:31] <Hobbsee> heya Mithrandir!
[02:31] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I know, it's incredible.
[02:31] <Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee 
[02:32] <jdub> first mail on public sounder was jorge :)
[02:33] <cjwatson> Sounder CDs 1 through 5 were announced privately on warthogs@; 5 was the first distributed from ftp.no-name-yet.com rather than auckland.warthogs.hbd.com
[02:33] <jdub> well, pre-public sounder
[02:33] <bhale> i still get mail from rince
[02:33] <LaserJock> jeeze, I fell so young. I first tried Ubuntu during Hoary :/
[02:34] <LaserJock> *feel
[02:34] <jdub> that was the machine that mark insisted on upgrading from debian to warty online
[02:34] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:34] <jdub> which handled all of our lists for a long time (way too long)
[02:34] <Mithrandir> I apparently got on board sometime just after sounder 3.
[02:34] <bhale> jdub: you're the first post on -devel in sept 2004
[02:34] <jdub> scared the shit out of me
[02:34] <Mithrandir> jdub: and then a bit longer.
[02:34] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I think I tried Warty just before Hoary was released.
[02:34] <jdub> "jeff, can you look at rince, there's an upgrade problem" ... *WARTY?!*
[02:34] <LaserJock> I think the very first I tried was a Hoary beta
[02:35] <Fujitsu> jdub: Hahah.
[02:35] <bhale> I only made the second post :(
[02:35] <bhale> almost famous
[02:36] <cjwatson> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:12:30 +0100
[02:36] <cjwatson> that was a mail from Mark saying that we could start inviting sounders
[02:36] <Fujitsu> ie. that was when it went public?
[02:38] <jdub> that was after the initial sounder participants
[02:38] <jdub> Fujitsu: not really, it was staged
[02:38] <jdub> first we had targeted sounder invites
[02:38] <jdub> then we had open invites from the whole team
[02:38] <bhale> begining daniel stone worked
[02:38] <bhale> begging
[02:38] <HrdwrBoB> heh
[02:38] <jdub> then we launched the preview
[02:39] <jdub> at which point sounder became the discussion list
[02:39] <Fujitsu> Interesting.
[02:39] <Fujitsu> Was there a purpose for the staging?
[02:39] <bhale> it was All New
[02:40] <bhale> alpha stuff
[02:40] <jdub> Fujitsu: fo'sho -- we got very specific people geared up about it
[02:40] <bhale> not ready to release on the world, good enough to get hackers interested
[02:40] <jdub> Fujitsu: there's probably a short book to be made on the design and launch of ubuntu and the community
[02:41] <Fujitsu> Only a short book? :P
[02:41] <Keybuk> The only distribution with BABY JESUS in its governance structure?
[02:41] <jdub> Keybuk: which gets a laugh at *every* talk
[02:41] <jdub> Fujitsu: there's a lot of story left :)
[02:41] <Keybuk> jdub: except the Baghdad one?
[02:41] <Fujitsu> What's baby Jesus got to do with anything!?
[02:42] <bhale> Fujitsu: baby jesus freed us from nude south africans
[02:43] <jdub> Fujitsu: gotta have checks and balances on the sabdfl
[02:43] <Fujitsu> bhale: Ah, thank goodness.
[02:43] <Fujitsu> Who would this be?
[02:43] <bhale> Baby Jesus
[02:43] <bhale> don't question him
[02:43] <Fujitsu> ...
[02:44] <bhale> "checks and balances" really means jdub screaming at the top of his lungs about being "the fucking laughingstock"
[02:44] <jdub> there was never screaming
[02:45] <thom> lies.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> much screaming, anyway
[02:45] <jsgotangco> haha
[02:45] <Fujitsu> So it was you who saved us, jdub?
[02:45] <jdub> but unlike george bush, history has proven me right. :)
[02:45] <bhale> he saved us from Bad Idea #2
[02:45] <jdub> i didn't do any saving on that one
[02:45] <bhale> Bad Idea #1 was put to a pseudo-vote
[02:45] <Keybuk> jdub saves the world again
[02:46] <bhale> where the whole community got to shout at mark in -meeting
[02:46] <Fujitsu> Was the aformentioned one #2?
[02:46] <bhale> Ubuntu Spatial
[02:46] <bhale> if you don't know what that is, its for the best
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> hehehe
[02:46] <Fujitsu> No! I must know! :P
[02:46] <Hobbsee> tell anyway
[02:46] <Ng> ffefefef
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> it was the worst of both worlds
[02:47] <HrdwrBoB> and made EVERYBODY angry
[02:47] <Fujitsu> Not Nautilus spatial mode?
[02:48] <jdub> Fujitsu: molested nautilus spatial.
[02:48] <Fujitsu> Spatial isn't too bad... But how was it molested?
[02:49] <thom> Fujitsu: google "ubuntu spatial"
[02:49] <Fujitsu> thom: I have, and am looking at a couple of articles.
[02:49] <bhale> thom: adult filter off?
[02:49] <thom> Fujitsu: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/14838 is a reasonable summary
[02:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14838 in nautilus "New spatial breaks browsing usablity" [Medium,Fix released]  
[02:49] <Fujitsu> I also saw that bug, yes.
[02:50] <Fujitsu> That's a nice long bug.
[02:54] <Burgundavia> thom: seems this release the bad idea is tab-consistency
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: That's a bad idea?
[02:54] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: the implementation is
[02:54] <Burgundavia> check planet in about 5 minutes
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Oh dear.
[02:56] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Konsole currently has the `new tab' button on the tab bar, to the left of the tabs.
[02:56] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: ah, interesting
[02:56] <Burgundavia> how does it work?
[02:58] <bhale> you left click and it creates and focuses a new tab
[02:58] <bhale> nothing suprising
[02:58] <Fujitsu> bhale is correct. It does what you would expect.
[02:58] <Fujitsu> And it works fine.
[02:59] <Fujitsu> However, I agree with the other points you make.
[02:59] <Burgundavia> I will update my blog post
[02:59] <Burgundavia> after I pull down half of KDE just to look at konsole
[02:59] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[03:00] <Fujitsu> Is feisty-changes asleep or something?
[03:01] <Burgundavia> bhale: did you attend the tab consistency discussion?
[03:01] <bhale> Burgundavia: no, i have little patience for such things
[03:01] <Burgundavia> right
[03:02] <Burgundavia> wow, I love how the top of planet is all people ripping on things
[03:03] <Burgundavia> I hate how planet changes the look of some things
[03:03] <jdub> oh, i didn't realise lennart was there
[03:04] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: With the moving tabs thing, do you mean like how gnome-terminal does it now?
[03:04] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: like ephy does' it
[03:04] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: gnome-terminal moves it too quickly
[03:05] <Burgundavia> epiphany makes it slide along
[03:05] <Fujitsu> Ah, that sounds much nicer.
[03:05] <jdub> Burgundavia: "affordance" :)
[03:05] <Fujitsu> I didn't think that was particularly practical.
[03:05] <Burgundavia> jdub: affordance?
[03:05] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: ephy probably has the nicest tab moving I have seen
[03:06] <Fujitsu> Mm, I like it.
[03:06] <Fujitsu> It's very nice.
[03:06] <Burgundavia> you pulled down ephy?
[03:06] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[03:06] <Fujitsu> Where pulled down == grabbed from mirror sitting under my hands.
[03:06] <Burgundavia> right
[03:06] <jdub> Burgundavia: look it up, you'll find it handy
[03:07] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: where you can't move a tab off the window it's sitting in?
[03:07] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: that is one thing that sucks
[03:08] <Burgundavia> like I said, tab consistency is good. that implementation idea is crack
[03:08] <Burgundavia> jdub: right
[03:09] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: you're back!
[03:09] <Keybuk> we missed you!
[03:09] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I am, my irc client missed you too
[03:12] <Fujitsu> Hm, can I convince one of the multitude of archive admins that are around here that they want to let my gcl upload to dapper-proposed through?
[03:17] <jdong> infinity: ping (probably not gonna happen)
[03:18] <Mez> jdong, I believe he's gone to the pub
[03:18] <Mez> or similar ;)
[03:18] <jdong> Mez: hence the pessimism
[03:19] <jdong> Mez: if you catch him before I do, poke him about backports building against -updates
[03:19] <jdong> that'd be nice
[03:19] <Mez> though, to be fair to him, he didnt spend that much time in the bar at UBZ
[03:19] <Mez> jdong: just ping off an email to him
[03:20] <jdong> Mez: but I might discover a pile of launchpad bugs in my inbox
[03:20] <jdong> Mez: evolution hides on desktop 4 ;)
[03:20] <Mez> jdong,  .... ?
[03:20] <whiprush> infinity is currently packed up and listening to the end-of-the-day schedule thing
[03:20] <Mez> jdong, ogh, I see
[03:21] <jdong> Mez: btw, you let a prevu changelog entry slip into feisty-changes :D
[03:21] <Mez> jdong ... ... wtf where?
[03:21] <jdong> Mez: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/2006-November/000205.html
[03:21] <jdong>  knights (0.6-7.1ubuntu2) feisty; urgency=low
[03:21] <jdong>  .
[03:21] <jdong>    * Automated backport by prevu. No source changes
[03:21] <jdong>    * Fixed if in rules to work properly
[03:22] <Mez> jdong, lol - oh, thats ok I thought you were on about the version
[03:22] <jdong> prevu no longer touches the working directory in the latest revisions...
[03:22] <jdong> no, not the version :D
[03:22] <Mez> I know - thats why I filed the bug you see ;)
[03:22] <Burgundavia> jdong: can you email me a bit about prevu to put int eh UWN?
[03:22] <Mez> that's ok ... it's just a lil ... iffy
[03:22] <jdong> Burgundavia: sure thing, love to
[03:22] <Fujitsu> jdong: I pointed that out yesterday.
[03:23] <jdong> Fujitsu: to me, yes
[03:23] <jdong> Fujitsu: I'm now taunting Mez about it
[03:23] <Mez> Burgundavia, I'm gonna put it in universe soon too
[03:23] <Fujitsu> Mez: I was somewhat surprised when I saw that. Backporting to Feisty already? :P
[03:23] <Mez> Fujitsu, no ... 
[03:23] <jdong> Burgundavia: I was planning on waiting for prevu to be in feisty, and backported to dapper & edgy first
[03:24] <jdong> Burgundavia: that way users don't have to go out to a 3rd party location to grab prevu
[03:24] <Burgundavia> jdong: whatever. Whenever you want to talk about it
[03:24] <jdong> Burgundavia: ok. thanks :)
[03:24] <Fujitsu> Backporting new packages? Has that been done before?
[03:24] <Mez> Fujitsu... yes it has
[03:25] <jdong> Fujitsu: hehe, in warty and hoary backports, debian sid/experimental were fair game
[03:25] <Fujitsu> I didn't think that sort of thing would be done :/
[03:25] <jdong> Fujitsu: I was more crackful at that time
[03:25] <Mez> and fujitsu - the reason for prevu'ing knights :P https://launchpad.net/products/edgy-backports/+bug/70929
[03:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70929 in edgy-backports "Backport knights 0.6-7.1ubuntu2" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[03:25] <Mez> and bug 70930
[03:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70930 in prevu "Prevu'ing a package should revert changelog after" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70930
[03:25] <Fujitsu> Yes, that one.
[03:26] <jdong> Fujitsu: Originally, prevu executed its 'dch -i' in place when executed in an unpacked source tree
[03:26] <Fujitsu> jdong: It now copies the tree elsewhere?
[03:26] <jdong> Fujitsu: correct
[03:26] <Mez> Fujitsu, I prevu'd it to make sure it built in fiesty and backported, and then i debuild -S -sa'd it and pushed it
[03:26] <Fujitsu> Sounds like a much better idea.
[03:26] <jdong> Fujitsu: initially I hadn't considered prevu used as a developer tool :)
[03:27] <Mez> jdong: surely it would be easiest to just make a hook for pbuilder that did that in the pbuild?
[03:27] <Mez> or would that cause issues for pbuilder ?
[03:27] <jdong> Mez: I'm not sure; I hadn't considered that method
[03:27] <Mez> thats an interesting idea.
[03:27] <Mez> Does pbuilder error out if the version is changed inside the pbuild ;)
[03:28] <jdong> Mez: hehe, I'm not sure
[03:28] <jdong> Mez: I don't think so
[03:33] <jdong> wow this new frozen bubbles is addictive
[03:33] <Fujitsu> jdong: There's not much different, is there?
[03:34] <jdong> Fujitsu: network mode :)
[03:34] <Fujitsu> Ah, that'd do it.
[03:34] <jdong> Fujitsu: and the overall experience is a lot more polished/professional
[03:35] <Fujitsu> jdong: Yes, it's rather shiny.
[03:35] <jdong> yeah
[03:35] <Fujitsu> I think the actual bubble textures could do with an overhaul, though.
[03:35] <jdong> it really stuns windows users with the "wow, that's free?" shock
[03:35] <jdong> Fujitsu: I agree, I'm disappointed nothing happened with the bubbles
[03:36] <Fujitsu> They look really out of place :(
[03:36] <jdong> they sure do
[03:36] <Fujitsu> Aw... `Eye-candy animation is too slow, disabling.'
[03:37] <jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, my Xgl environment triggers that same error
[03:37] <Mez> jdong: nvidia card ?
[03:37] <jdong> Mez: no, ati/fglrx card
[03:37] <jdong> mobility radeon 1400
[03:38] <Mez> (with aiglx)
[03:38] <jdong> Mez: enabled strict binding?
[03:38] <Mez> and Xgl just crashes out on me
[03:38] <jdong> Mez: if you're using beryl that is
[03:38] <jdong> without strict binding, I get blank terminals
[03:39] <Mez> jdong, I was using beryl, and with Xgl, it would work for a few secs, then Xgl would crash and I'd have nothing but a wallpaper staring at me
[03:39] <jdong> hmm
[03:39] <Mez> aiglx would only not give me a white screen if i used ati instead of fglrx
[03:39] <Mez> but if I did that then it would crash out X after a few secs
[03:40] <jdong> Mez: in general I've found aiglx to be slower than xgl
[03:40] <jdong> :(
[03:40] <Mez> aiglx was slower
[03:40] <Mez> but both crash out
[03:40] <jdong> heh
[03:40] <Mez> which is :'(
[03:40] <jdong> yeah, it definitely is
[03:40] <Mez> Xgl worked fine for a few mins until it crashed ;)
[03:40] <jdong> eye candy is a necessity :D
[03:41] <Mez> jdong: what instructions did you use to set it up ?
[03:41] <jdong> Mez: the ones at the beryl wiki?
[03:41] <Mez> link ?
[03:41] <jdong> http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Install/Ubuntu
[03:42] <Mez> jdong, using ubuntu or kubuntu ?
[03:42] <jdong> Mez: both
[03:43] <jdong> Mez: I tend to switch back and forth out of boredom
[03:43] <Mez> lol
[03:43] <jdong> to be perfectly honest though I prefer GNOME more often
[03:43] <jdong> though I do have some kde stuff running in my gnome always
[03:43] <jdong> like klippy
[03:43] <jdong> klipper*
[03:43] <jdong> ktorrent
[03:43] <jdong> Fujitsu: oh yeah
[03:43] <Mez> Fujitsu, you ever played UT2004?
[03:44] <Mez> or Doom 3 ?
[03:44] <jdong> Mez: I am a light UT2004 player
[03:44] <Fujitsu> Are they free?
[03:44] <jdong> Fujitsu: I got mine for 5 bucks, so close enough :D
[03:44] <Mez> jdong: want a game ?
[03:44] <jdong> Mez: naw, not right now
[03:44] <Mez> aw :(
[03:44] <jdong> I don't have it set up on my serious work laptop either
[03:44] <jdong> :D
[03:45] <jdong> I actually keep my ut in a squashfs
[03:45] <minghua> Fujitsu: if free beer qualify as "free", I believe there are games with good music
[03:45] <jdong> it compresses it down quite significantly
[03:45] <Fujitsu> I was more thinking free as in libre.
[03:45] <jdong> please stand by while I break my computer
[03:46] <jdong> Fujitsu: speaking of azureus
[03:46] <jdong> Fujitsu: what did happen to repacking orig.tar.gz
[03:47] <jdong> Fujitsu: oh yeah, I stumbled across spe the other day, they used "+repack" to designate this scenario
[03:47] <Fujitsu> Ah, that.
[03:47] <jdong> 0.8.2a+repack-0.1: all
[03:47] <Fujitsu> Well, it's ready to go, I think.
[03:47] <Fujitsu> jdong: It's not really a repack.
[03:48] <Fujitsu> It's got changes.
[03:48] <Fujitsu> Or has spe got similar changes?
[03:51] <jdong> Fujitsu: I'm not sure what happened to them
[03:51] <jdong> Fujitsu: and I'd call it a repack in the sense that the first time it was packed wrong
[03:52] <Fujitsu> Same...
[03:52] <Fujitsu> The upstream tarball should be the upstream tarball...
[03:52] <Fujitsu> Yet in this case it appears to not be :S
[03:52] <jdong> Fujitsu: it's actually laid out nothing like the upstream sources
[03:52] <jdong> Fujitsu: actually, the upstream sources are in a zip file :D
[03:54] <jdong> wow, beryl svn is snappier
[04:03] <jdong> infinity: I've got free cookies if you talk to me!
[06:52] <jdub> Burgundavia: re your blog -> ie7 has a "new tab" tab that is always on the very right of all tabs
[06:52] <jdub> Burgundavia: it is mildly confusing
[06:57] <robitaille> if you don't use ie7  then the confusion will magically go away :)
[07:10] <racter> hi -- i have a process question w/r/t developing ubuntu; how do those working on the project share and manage code?  do you use something like SVN?
[07:12] <minghua> racter: most developers use bzr
[07:14] <racter> ok thx -- so the core codebase of ubuntu is managed through bzr?
[07:15] <racter> i'm just trying to figure out how a larger open source project like this is managed
[07:20] <minghua> racter: I don't know the details, I suppose every developer has his own style to manage his/her packages
[07:20] <minghua> racter: and the tool upstream uses is a factor too -- I am sure the kernel maintainer uses git
[07:20] <minghua> racter: I don't think there is an enforced policy
[07:21] <racter> ok
[07:21] <racter> so what about actually putting everything together?
[07:21] <racter> is that just centrally managed on this project?
[07:21] <minghua> yes, Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/
[07:21] <racter> like the livecd etc
[07:21] <racter> oic
[07:22] <minghua> and then there is the archive
[07:23] <racter> ok thanks for the leads, minghua!
[07:23] <minghua> you are welcome
[07:31] <Burgundavia> jdub: ah, other interesting news
[07:32] <Burgundavia> jdub: is that the little tab that is unlabelled at the end?
[07:33] <jdub> yeah
[07:33] <jdub> and the tab with four squares on it gives you a thumbnail preview of all the tabs
[07:33] <Treenaks> it's labeled '*SHINY STAR THINGY*'
[07:33] <jdub> like those firefox plugins
[07:34] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:35] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: and I agree with you on the 'it should be upstream' bit... breaking upstream has made baby jesuses cry since hoary..
[07:36] <Treenaks> (babies jesus?)
[07:36] <Burgundavia> I have noticed Ubuntu catch some flak for not upstreaming our patches recently (outside of the usual Debian concerns)
[07:36] <jdub> if there are api/abi changes, there's going to be some serious shit going down
[07:37] <Burgundavia> even if there are not, I would deeply concerned
[07:37] <Burgundavia> it really shows there has been a lack of debate about this whole spec
[07:38] <jdub> well, yeah, shit going down due to wrong implementation choice as well
[07:38] <jdub> but hey
[07:38] <Treenaks> *cough*logout dialog*cough*
[07:38] <Burgundavia> Marks One Dumb Idea Per Release
[07:38] <Burgundavia> TM
[07:39] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: What about beryl-by-default?
[07:39] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: it is now composite by default
[07:39] <Burgundavia> and if you look at the spec, I don't see how Beryl is going to meet the requirements
[07:39] <Fujitsu> Ah good.
[07:41] <Burgundavia> it was clear from day one that this tab spec has gotten Marks attention like a shiny toy
[07:41] <Burgundavia> if you notice, it was the first spec marked High
[07:41] <jdub> it is his spec
[07:42] <Burgundavia> that it was
[07:42] <Burgundavia> I just hope people see my blog post as not a rant but as a genuine wish to start some real dialog about the spec
[07:43] <jdub> HOLY SHIT! WOOKIE COOKIES!!!!11
[07:43] <Burgundavia> heh
[07:44] <jdub> http://youtube.com/watch?v=z7ieS1zB_E8
[07:46] <Burgundavia> jdub: you are sabotaging my efforts to get to sleep
[07:50] <jdub> haw haw haw
[07:50] <jdub> "Every company has its blowhards and its various good guys," Shuttleworth said. "We have ours."
[07:52] <Burgundavia> jdub: where is that from?
[07:52] <jdub> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/10/shuttleworth_oracle/
[07:53] <robitaille> it's on the fridge :)  
[07:53] <jdub> robitaille: i note that bit wasn't quoted
[07:53] <jdub> !
[07:54] <robitaille> yeah...I should probably had a quote in there.
[07:54] <robitaille> s/had/add
[07:54] <Burgundavia> you know mark talks a lot about Canonical being different from RH. All I see right now is some non-free software
[07:54] <jdub> i'm giving hima qotd
[07:56] <jdub> lollerskates
[07:57] <jdub> http://perkypants.org/blog/2006/11/10/qotd-mark-shuttleworth/
[07:57] <robitaille> I didn't get the bit in the article about Sun and a glass fish...I must be too dense tonight
[07:57] <jdub> robitaille: sun released glassfish under the cddl
[07:57] <jdub> java ee server
[07:57] <Burgundavia> jdub: here is a nother good qotd: "I'll give you an example: My son, seven years old, runs Windows Vista, and, honestly, he doesn't have an antivirus system on his machine. - Jim Allchin
[07:58] <robitaille> ah.. thanks jdub
[07:58] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: botnet!
[07:58] <Burgundavia> Treenaks: apparently Vista has some ASLR thingy
[07:59] <Treenaks> alt.sysadmin.l[??] .recovery?
[08:00] <Burgundavia> address space randomization
[08:00] <Treenaks> ah
[08:01] <Treenaks> another hack around the real problem
[08:01] <Burgundavia> some handwaving about "every version of Vista being slightly different". it might help, but I seriously doubt it
[08:01] <Fujitsu> All 8 versions.
[08:01] <Burgundavia> I thought it was 7
[08:01] <Treenaks> Fujitsu: YOU WIN! :)
[08:02] <Fujitsu> I think it's 8, there's Home, Home Premium, Business, Enterprise, Ultimate, plus a couple of odd N variants.
[08:02] <Fujitsu> Maybe 7, though.
[08:03] <Fujitsu> Ah, and Starter.
[08:04] <jdub> there's also the Bendover pack
[08:04] <Fujitsu> ...
[08:04] <robitaille> it is 5 according to their web site  http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/editions/default.mspx
[08:04] <robitaille> not that I really care...
[08:04] <Burgundavia> I think Bendover(TM) is a free addition to all versions of Vista
[08:05] <robitaille> interestingly  it seems Microsoft doesn't own vista.com
[08:06] <Burgundavia> oops
[08:06] <Burgundavia> imagine they would pay a fortune for that now
[08:06] <robitaille> I imagine someone is still waiting to get as much money as possible closer to the official release
[08:07] <Fujitsu> robitaille: That page leaves out Starter and the two extra European options.
[08:07] <Burgundavia> oh, the N editions
[08:07] <minghua> they don't own ie7.com either
[08:07] <Burgundavia> ouch
[08:08] <robitaille> Fujitsu:  the text mentions 5 editions...the 4 in the table, plus starter available in some countries.  
[08:08] <minghua> you just can't predict everything :-)
[08:08] <Burgundavia> 2nd hit for ie too
[08:08] <Fujitsu> robitaille: Also Enterprise Edition, just above the table.
[08:08] <Burgundavia> http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/ <-- and this is the 3rd hit
[08:09] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[08:09] <Fujitsu> Nice
[08:09] <robitaille> well... it seems not all ubuntu sites points to the distro.   ubuntu.tv for example
[08:10] <Fujitsu> And ubuntu.ch.
[08:10] <Fujitsu> Hm, the owner of that seems to have emptied it.
[08:10] <robitaille> ubuntu.fm doesn't resolves.
[08:10] <StevenK> And ubuntu.org is something else entirely.
[08:11] <Fujitsu> StevenK: That annoyed me a lot at the start.
[08:12] <johanbr> I read about a tubing manufacturing company which owns the domain utube.com. Apparently they've had to shut down their web server several times because of all the traffic. :)
[08:12] <Fujitsu> I kept typing it for ages.
[08:13] <Fujitsu> johanbr: I've also heard they're attacking YouTube about it.
[08:15] <johanbr> I can feel their pain. My old home number was one number away from a lumberyard's number. 
[08:16] <Burgundavia> I had a friend who had a one number off the most popular pizza place in town
[08:16] <Burgundavia> we had fun with that one
[08:16] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Ouch.
[08:16] <Burgundavia> anchovie pizza? sure!
[08:16] <robitaille> In Montreal, our phone number was 2 small number off from the US consulate...
[08:19] <StevenK> Our support number is a slight transpose for Fisher & Paykell, which makes for some interesting phone calls.
[08:20] <Burgundavia> what is fisher and paykell?
[08:20] <StevenK> A large Australian whitegoods manufactuer.
[08:20] <Burgundavia> whitegoods?
[08:21] <StevenK> Fridge, oven, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher, etc
[08:21] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:21] <Burgundavia> you aussies speak funny
[08:21] <johanbr> A year ago, someone from the cargo terminal at Vancouver Airport called and left a message for my boss "Your monkeys have arrived. Can you please come and pick them up, they're becoming quite agitated." He had no idea what the guy was talking about. :)
[08:21] <Fujitsu> You Burgundavians speak funny.
[08:22] <Burgundavia> johanbr: should have gone and picked them up for a laugh
[08:22] <StevenK> Said in a non-Aussie accent, that line is very funny. :-)
[08:22] <Burgundavia> johanbr: why don't I see you in #ubuntu-ca ?
[08:23] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee!
[08:23] <Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
[08:23] <StevenK> Gasp, it's actually Mithrandir.
[08:23] <Fujitsu> (hey Mithrandir)
[08:23] <johanbr> Burgundavia: No reason, really. I've looked at the mailing list, but I didn't know of the irc channel.
[08:23] <Fujitsu> StevenK: I know, it's most incredible.
[08:23] <Mithrandir> StevenK: indeed.
[08:24] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Your machine took a while to get fixed.
[08:24] <Burgundavia> johanbr: as leader of Ubuntu Canada, you are now marked and I will hound you until you admit defeat and join #ubuntu-ca :)
[08:24] <Mithrandir> StevenK: yeah, and I got distracted by random other things I needed to fix
[08:24] <johanbr> Burgundavia: Sounds like I just have to give in then. :)
[08:24] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir!
[08:24] <Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu 
[08:25] <StevenK> "I am Burgundavia of Borg. You will be assilimated. Resistance is futile." ?
[08:25] <StevenK> Resistance is futile, if < 1 ohm
[08:25] <ajmitch> evening
[08:26] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
[08:26] <Burgundavia> StevenK: I build my loco team through threats and intimidation
[08:26] <StevenK> Burgundavia: Muaha
[08:26] <Burgundavia> this leadership stuff is fun :)
[08:27] <Mithrandir> what's normal dry skin resistance?
[08:27] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: A lot.
[08:29] <Mithrandir> about 1 M, it appears.
[08:31] <jdub> im in ur developer summit, writin ur specs
[08:31] <johanbr> Is there a Spanish-speaking loco team?
[08:31] <Fujitsu> Whadeva you say, jdub.
[08:31] <Fujitsu> johanbr: Spanish team, most probably.
[08:31] <desrt> jdub; yr weird
[08:31] <johanbr> Fujitsu: I see my feeble attempt at a joke failed.
[08:31] <Mithrandir> jdub: you're totally not. :-P
[08:32] <jdub> johanbr: #ubuntu-es
[08:32] <Mithrandir> jdub: but you _should_ have been here, writing uwr specs.
[08:32] <johanbr> Failed twice, even.
[08:32] <jdub> johanbr: ah, don't be so hard on yourself. you only failed once. the world failed you many times.
[08:32] <jdub> ;-)
[08:33] <Fujitsu> jdub: You need to be around more often! It's a whole lot better with you here.
[08:34] <jdub> lies!
[08:35] <minghua> Mithrandir: I think the resistance depends on people quite a bit, there can be ~10 times difference from person to person
[08:36] <minghua> but yes, 1M ohm is about right
[08:36] <Fujitsu> minghua, Mithrandir: We are discussing this /why/, exactly?
[08:36] <minghua> Fujitsu: I am just interested, being a physicist, you know
[08:36] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: we're trying to find out if resistence is actually futile or not.
[08:37] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[08:39] <Hobbsee> we did actually do the resistance of various bits of ourselves, though
[08:39] <minghua> does futile has some special meaning in electrical circuits context?
[08:40] <Hobbsee> not that i know fo
[08:40] <Mithrandir> I'm not an EE, but not that I know of, no.
[08:40] <Mithrandir> (I have had some EE classes, though)
[08:41] <johanbr> For some fun with an oscilloscope, get nekkid, put the wires over your heart and turn up the resolution far enough. Poor man's ekg. 
[08:42] <johanbr> ecg, rather.
[08:43] <Mithrandir> I don't know about you, but I can get at my chest by just taking off my shirt.  :-P
[08:43] <Hobbsee> hah
[08:44] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Yes, but you can burn yourself very badly if you're wearing anything with metal, like say, the button of a pair of jeans.
[08:45] <Mithrandir> StevenK: sure?  Why would you do that?
[08:45] <StevenK> Hum. I think I've just confused two different pieces of medical technology. :-(
[08:46] <Hobbsee> StevenK: you cant hide under air.
[08:46] <StevenK> Are you sure?
[08:46] <Hobbsee> yes
[08:51] <jdub> StevenK: "oral" and "suppository"?
[09:07] <pygi> sivang, ping?
[09:34] <cge> Does anyone know why ttf-arphic-uming is declaring itself as the preferred font for every alias in fontconfig?
[09:43] <Fujitsu> cge: Feisty?
[09:43] <cge> Fujitsu: Yes.
[09:44] <Fujitsu> cge: I noticed everything had changed to some overly bad font.
[09:44] <cge> I'm asking about the rationale of doing so.
[09:44] <Fujitsu> Can't have been deliberate.
[09:45] <cge> Well, the code was certainly deliberate, I think the author just didn't realise that the configuration file for the individual font overides the global configuration file.
[09:45] <Fujitsu> Oh, it's a bug in that font specifically?
[09:45] <Fujitsu> Ouch.
[09:45] <cge> I wrote a patch for it, which is in bug #71121
[09:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71121 in ttf-arphic-uming "0.1.20060928-2 makes default gnome fonts ugly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71121
[09:45] <Fujitsu> Oh, it's not just GNOME, it's everything.
[09:45] <cge> Yes
[09:46] <cge> I don't particularly want to spam everyone by changing the title.
[09:47] <Fujitsu> Probably a good idea.
[09:47] <cge> It's an easy fix. I just don't understand why the code was there in the first place, so I ended up putting in two patches, one which changes the <prefer> tags to <accept> so that uming is still in the list of fonts used for the aliases, and another which just removes the <alias> sections altogether.
[09:48] <Fujitsu> I don't think the aliases are particularly valid, but they must be there for a reason.
[09:48] <cge> Well, one is actually an alias section for a deprecated alias...
[09:52] <_ion> Way to go. Some guy has made a list <http://3v1n0.tuxfamily.org/blog/lista-repository-sourceslist-ottimizzata-per-ubuntu-kubuntu-linux/> of random apt repositories all over the Net, and recommends people to dump them all to their sources.list without thinking. Suddenly some 700 (almost all of them Italian) computers are using my repository  the maintainer of any of those repositories could do some serious damage to ~700 systems.
[09:52] <Hobbsee> way cool
[09:53] <Fujitsu> Yep, fantastic.
[09:53] <Fujitsu> BURN!
[09:53] <cge> wow
[09:53] <Fujitsu> Can we, you know... DESTROY whoever made that list?
[09:53] <cge> I'm not sure what is worse. That someone made that list, or that 700 people actually listened to him.
[09:53] <Fujitsu> Or we could Digg it!
[09:54] <cge> Oooh, he also suggests in the instructions that someone should add all of those those using kadept, *one by one*.
[09:54] <Fujitsu> # Trevios Ubuntu edgy Beryl-SVN Repository (GPG key: 81836EBF - DD800CD9)
[09:54] <Fujitsu> # Daily Updated Beryl (and related projects) Packages
[09:54] <Fujitsu> Great, kernels too.
[09:56] <cge> Can some Ubuntu member please email him with an @ubuntu.com address and tell him to take it down?
[09:57] <hunger> cge: Better explain to him why it is a bad idea, or he'll end up blogging about being bullied by cannonical.
[09:58] <cge> I'm still trying to find an email address...
[09:58] <Mithrandir> @ubuntu.com != canonical.
[09:58] <hunger> Mithrandir: I know that, but will the average /. reader?
[09:58] <Fujitsu> Ooh, ooh!
[09:58] <Fujitsu> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/612629.html
[09:59] <Fujitsu> It's everywhere.
[10:00] <cge> I hope the person there copied it for entertainment purposes.
[10:00] <sivang> Fujitsu: any news about the fonts bug? :)
[10:00] <cge> sivang: I posted a patch for it.
[10:00] <sivang> slomo_: I saw you uploaded a new dbus that fixes the close shared connection, is this in response to my bug report?
[10:00] <Hobbsee> _ion: one of them is your repo right?
[10:00] <Fujitsu> sivang: It's bug #71121
[10:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71121 in ttf-arphic-uming "0.1.20060928-2 makes default gnome fonts ugly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71121
[10:00] <cge> sivang: ttf-arphic-uming declares itself as the preferred font for every alias that fontconfig has, and overrides the global config.
[10:00] <Hobbsee> _ion: why not just upload something that breaks their X or something?  :P
[10:01] <Fujitsu> sivang: Remove ttf-arphic-uming, and everything is good.
[10:01] <Hobbsee> or just breaks something so badly that it says "this should nto be used"
[10:01] <sivang> cge: an idea how that happened? how did it differ from the edgy version
[10:01] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Or a patched wallpaper.
[10:01] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah...
[10:01] <slomo_> sivang: it doesn't really fix anything, it just allows applications to call the dbus api with bogus parameters and thus solves your problem for now ;)
[10:01] <Fujitsu> imbrandon's repo is in their too.
[10:01] <cge> sivang: The new upstream version changed the configuration.
[10:01] <Fujitsu> *there
[10:01] <slomo_> sivang: applications should still be fixed and i'll upload a fixed hal later probably
[10:02] <_ion> hobbsee: Yep, but i removed the "all" section, which is the only section listed in there. Oh, i wouldn't be that malicious. :-)
[10:02] <sivang> slomo_: ah, I thought you said it was pitti's domain :)
[10:02] <cge> sivang: But even then, it seems like it might be broken partially in edgy, and the only reason it worked was because it was using the deprecated sans alias instead of sans-serif.
[10:02] <Hobbsee> _ion: hehe.  why not?  they'd learn quickly
[10:02] <Fujitsu> sivang: Is there a bug on LP for that HAL thing?
[10:02] <sivang> Fujitsu: ofcourse
[10:02] <cge> sivang: Which, of course, the author fixed for the new upstream.
[10:02] <sivang> Fujitsu: slomo_ migt have it )
[10:02] <sivang> hmm
[10:02] <sivang> W: /usr/share/fonts/truetype/arphic/uming.ttf: not registered.
[10:02] <sivang> nice
[10:02] <sivang> :)
[10:03] <Fujitsu> sivang: Same.
[10:03] <slomo_> Fujitsu: afaik there is no bug yet
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Purging crud is good.
[10:03] <sivang> slomo_: just a sec
[10:03] <sivang> slomo_: I sub'd only pitti, as you said it his respo to fix hal
[10:03] <_ion> hobbsee: OTOH, changing the background wouldn't be very evil.
[10:04] <Hobbsee> _ion: no, but causing dep hell would be
[10:04] <_ion> Could someone translate "Using repositories you don't trust may cause irrepairable damage to your system" to Italian, please?
[10:04] <sivang> Fujitsu, slomo_ : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/71092
[10:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71092 in hal "hald-runner crashes making hal unusuable." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:04] <cge> _ion: take a look at the root of Trevino's site.
[10:05] <Fujitsu> sivang: Thanks.
[10:05] <cge> _ion: The site is  Dennis Kaarsemaker <dennis@kaarsemaker.net> :)
[10:05] <sivang> Fujitsu: you're welcome.
[10:05] <slomo_> sivang: thanks
[10:05] <_ion> cge: Only Falcon is  him.
[10:05] <cge> _ion: ah
[10:08] <Fujitsu> He's apparently a PLF contributor.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Evil evil evil.
[10:09] <cge> Ok, found his email
[10:09] <Fujitsu> I ended up finding it through LP, then found it on his website.
[10:14] <Fujitsu> Anybody here speak Italian? A Babelfish translation of that site doesn't make much sense.
[10:14] <cge> Not really, why?
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Well, a Babelfish translation of the first paragraph is interesting...
[10:15] <Fujitsu> It basically seems to say `yay, Edgy's out, but not without it's fair share of problems.'
[10:15] <Fujitsu> I presume he means upgrade problems...
[10:15] <Fujitsu> So, he goes out and makes something which will cause more! Yippee.
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Of course, that translation could be completely wrong.
[10:16] <cge> He used apt-get -f dist-upgrade to upgrade, apparently.
[10:16] <Fujitsu> Looks like it.
[10:16] <cge> He must be used to apt problems...
[10:16] <Fujitsu> Is that a surprise?
[10:17] <cge> IRC unfortunately lacks the wide range of intonations one can use in speaking.
[10:18] <Fujitsu> It is very unfortunate, yes.
[10:18] <cge> From reading it, and my skills in Latin, it appears that he is saying that the upgrade wasn't without problems, but one apt-get -f install fixed nearly all of them.
[10:19] <cge> Of course, it also says that this is his sources.list updated for edgy. If he had that list for Dapper as well, I'm surprised he was able to upgrade at all.
[10:19] <Fujitsu> Yeah, I'm most impressed that his system didn't explode entirely.
[10:22] <cge> Oh dear, he also has a package in his repository which automatically replaces the user's sources.list with his.
[10:23] <cge> at least it makes a backup
[10:23] <Fujitsu> I also got that information from the translation.
[10:24] <cge> Oh. I could have just read that instead of dpkg-deb -e'ing it.
[10:24] <Fujitsu> Of course, we could easily put a version of that package with a very high version number in another of those repositories, replacing the sources.list with a sane one :P
[10:26] <cge> Finally, a good use for epochs.
[10:26] <Fujitsu> LOL
[10:28] <cge> Does anyone know if epochs are unsigned ints or unsigned chars?
[10:28] <StevenK> Ints
[10:28] <Fujitsu> Hahahah.
[10:28] <StevenK> Well, 1 through to 9
[10:28] <Fujitsu> Only through 9? Bugger.
[10:28] <crimsun> well, kde's already up there
[10:29] <cge> Now I'm going to actually have to remember how to build packages without helpers.
[10:29] <Fujitsu> Hm, that list has only been there for 4 days.
[10:29] <cge> Fujitsu: And 700 people are using already...
[10:30] <Fujitsu> Yeah, and it's being distributed further.
[10:30] <StevenK> cge: tar ; tar ; touch ; ar e ......
[10:30] <Fujitsu> `I'm Trevio a happy Italian Kubuntu User...' (from the wiki page)
[10:30] <StevenK> ar a, even
[10:30] <Fujitsu> Happy, soon to be shredded into lots of tiny little pieces, Italian Kubuntu User.
[10:33] <Fujitsu> Hahah, check the first comment on http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry769.html
[10:33] <_ion> http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/untrusted_repositories
[10:34] <Fujitsu> _ion: Nice.
[10:38] <cge> That comment is great.
[10:41] <Fujitsu> It is, yes.
[10:41] <cge> Anyone have a copy of the default sources.list?
[10:42] <Fujitsu> Not on any of my machines.
[10:45] <tepsipakki> make sources.list read-only, and force users to put extra repos in sources.list.d/foo.list
[10:46] <tepsipakki> it's silly to add everything in the default version
[10:46] <cge> I'm thinking about just blanking sources.list, and telling the user to reinstall.
[10:47] <radone>  I am trying to compile project and I got:  "/lib/modules/2.6.15-27-386/build: No such file or directory"
[10:47] <radone> linux sources are already installed, but how can I create build directory?
[10:47] <cge> radone: You should generally ask questions like that in #ubuntu.
[10:48] <radone> cge: ok, thanks
[10:52] <cge> radone: But it sounds like you need to install kernel sources and link them to that directory.
[11:01] <_ion> Ok, http://johan.kiviniemi.name/ubuntu/dists/edgy/all/
[11:06] <_ion> The first download already happened.
[11:06] <cge> _ion: !?
[11:09] <cge> _ion: Here, you can take (http://evanslabs.org/3v1n0-sources-list_8.7_i386.deb) package and modify it to your tastes. I think it should work reasonably well. It will move the users sources.list to sources.list.moved, remove trevino's list in /usr/share, print an explanation in English and "You need to reinstall Ubuntu!" in English and Italian, and then will have postinst fail so that it will force the user to do something.
[11:46] <cge> Oh dear, here's another version: http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-edgy-eft-complete-sourceslist-repository-list-file.html. It even claims that it is "highly secure".
[01:20] <jonh_wendell> guys, i've downloaded a package with apt-get source. How can i rebuild it, i haven't changed anything, i just want to rebuild it
[01:27] <gnomefreak> jonh_wendell: that is best asked in #ubuntu-motu there is also a packaging guide i think its !packaging
[01:30] <Trevinho> Hi... O got this message from "cevas" on msn [10:11:56]  cevans-ms@costinet.org says Hello? If you are available, would you mind coming to #ubuntu-devel on freenode?
[01:30] <Trevinho> Anyone knows something about? :o
[01:32] <Hobbsee> Trevinho: no idea
[01:33] <Trevinho> ah, ok... thanks anyway....
[01:37] <gnomefreak> im not sure who that is either sorry
[01:55] <Trevinho> Ah, here it should be known as "cge"... He's cevans (sorry for typo of first msg): https://launchpad.net/people/cevans
[01:56] <Hobbsee> who was here, but left a while ago
[01:58] <Trevinho> mh... Yes... I've mailed him...
[02:25] <sladen> ooh, we're up to 70xxx range bug numbers
[02:32] <giftnudel> yeah, see all the people running away in fear
[03:28] <bddebian> Howdy
[06:06] <lifeless> 'think of the kittens'
[06:40] <_ion> That Trevinho guy that visited was the maintainer of this. http://3v1n0.tuxfamily.org/blog/lista-repository-sourceslist-ottimizzata-per-ubuntu-kubuntu-linux/
[06:42] <_ion> 66 computers have installed the "new version" of edgy-wallpapers with the warning about using untrusted repositories so far.
[06:44] <LaserJock> _ion: my gosh that is one huge sources.list
[06:48] <_ion> laserjock: Yes, and he's recommending people to dump it straight to their sources.list. And seems like about 700 computers, mostly Italian, are using it.
[06:48] <LaserJock> how nice :(
[06:48] <_ion> I removed everything from my "all" section (which is the only one in that list) and added a "new" edgy-wallpapers package there that replaces the images with http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/untrusted_repositories
[06:49] <Ng> # CANONICAL COMMERCIAL REPOSITORY (Hosted on Canonical servers, not Ubuntu servers.
[06:49] <Ng> hehe
[06:49] <Ng> erm ;)
[06:51] <mjg59> Keybuk: So I think there's a way of potentially reducing the number of screenmode changes, but we're not trivially going to be able to lose the textmode switch before X
[06:57] <Keybuk> mjg59: why not?
[06:58] <Treenaks> some X drivers break when the screen isn't in textmode before they init..
[06:58] <mjg59> Keybuk: Otherwise X doesn't know to reprogram text mode when you hit ctrl+alt+f1
[06:58] <mjg59> It'll assume that you want the vesa mode on the consoles
[06:59] <Keybuk> mjg59: interesting
[06:59] <Keybuk> mjg59: so usplash-until-desktop is probably not doable
[07:00] <Mithrandir> can't we tell it what the mode should look like?
[07:00] <mjg59> Keybuk: Unless we have some mechanism to tell X what to do on switches to console, correct
[07:00] <mjg59> Mithrandir: How do you describe VGA text mode?
[07:00] <mjg59> Other than "This large number of registers need to look like this"...
[07:00] <Mithrandir> mjg59: vbetool knows how to, doesn't it?
[07:00] <mjg59> By relying on the video BIOS, yes
[07:00] <sladen> mjg59: "the mode the card defaults to".  An that is the problem.
[07:00] <Mithrandir> since it stores that set of registers already, doesn't it?
[07:01] <mjg59> sladen: Uh, no. You can do better than that.
[07:01] <Mithrandir> it being X
[07:01] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Nope
[07:01] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, erm.
[07:01] <Mithrandir> (sorry)
[07:01] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Not really. I doubt that most X drivers actually know how to program text mode
[07:01] <Mithrandir> what do they do, then?
[07:01] <mjg59> Mithrandir: In most cases, I suspect it's "This is the way the registers were when we started"
[07:01] <Treenaks> that sounds eek
[07:01] <sladen> Keybuk: so, usplash-until-desktop is doable with /some/ X drivers at the moment, and is -potentially- doable with all at a later date which magic foo be done to the X drivers
[07:02] <Mithrandir> we can record that before usplash starts, can't we?
[07:02] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Ish
[07:02] <sladen> effectively what vbe vgastate is doing already
[07:03] <Mithrandir> mjg59: not saying it's pretty, though
[07:03] <mjg59> Mithrandir: We can store that state, but then we'd need some means to pass that information to X
[07:04] <Treenaks> shared memory? *goes into hiding*
[07:04] <sladen> what happens is the contains of /var/lib/acpi-support/vbestate are used after an X mode switch back to text?
[07:04] <mjg59> sladen: Given that it's currently saved while usplash is running, nothing good
[07:04] <sladen> mjg59: write an extension, connect, beam it to the X server
[07:05] <sladen> mjg59: okay, so that needs moving into the initramfs stage before usplash ?
[07:05] <mjg59> That's still dependent upon us using VBE to restore the console mode
[07:05] <mjg59> Which isn't what all of the drivers did
[07:05] <mjg59> s/did/do/
[07:06] <Mithrandir> is there a particular reason why they don't?  (As in, can we make them?)
[07:08] <mjg59> Because VBE modesetting is generally regarded as only slightly better than punching yourself in the face repeatedly
[07:09] <Mithrandir> have you ever tried to punch your own face?  It sounds hard to actually do effectively.
[07:10] <malcc> I guess it'd be all about angular momentum
[07:27] <LaserJock> mako: ping
[07:29] <LaserJock> mako: nvm, I'll have to catch you later
[07:37] <mako> Laser_away: i'm here now
[07:37] <Treenaks> You owe the oracle an ntp-server
[07:43] <Keybuk> mjg59: does vbesave actually work with usplash running?
[07:44] <Laser_away> mako: do you get mail from your @ubuntu.com address?
[07:44] <mako> Laser_away: yes
[07:44] <Laser_away> mako: I seem to be getting some spam addressed to you
[07:45] <mako> Laser_away: probably it's just forged headers
[07:45] <mako> Laser_away: or rather, they just put me in the from address
[07:45] <Laser_away> I just had my redirect changed and since my LP id is mantha I wondered if something got tweaked
[07:45] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yes
[07:45] <Laser_away> mako: the To: header says mako@
[07:45] <mako> Laser_away: oh, perhaps i recieved that spam too
[07:46] <mako> Laser_away: what was teh message-id or subject?
[07:46] <Laser_away> the subject is always "hi mako"
[07:47] <Laser_away> mako: anyway, gotta run, but I just didn't want you to miss any non-spam mail
[07:47] <Laser_away> mako: I'm guessing you don't want your spam back ;-)
[07:47] <mako> Laser_away: no thank you
[07:47] <mako> Laser_away: take a look at the headers
[07:48] <mako> Laser_away: i suspect it was delivered for mantha in a BCC
[07:48] <mako> Laser_away: aalthough it's very likely that it always went to me
[08:15] <mdz> mjg59: which vesa mode does usplash use without a config file?
[08:22] <mjg59> mdz: I believe 640x480, though it may depend on the theme
[08:59] <jonh_wendell> how can i get a feisty package with apt-get source if i run edgy?
[09:01] <gnomefreak> jonh_wendell: you try not to mix packages as things break. this is not a support channel. join #ubuntu for support related questions
[09:01] <jonh_wendell> gnomefreak: uau
[09:01] <jonh_wendell> thank you
[09:35] <jwhitlark> oops, sorry.
[09:39] <jwhitlark> /MSG mnepton To add a new package to universe, do I need to do
[09:39] <jwhitlark>     anything special for it to bw available to dapper, edgy, etc.?
[09:41] <mnepton> a package is usually release specific, as libs change between releases. it may be that the package works prefectly in both, so you'd just use the single package, but with different revision claims.
[09:41] <Laser_away> jwhitlark: complete new packages won't be in dapper, edgy, etc.
[09:41] <mnepton> Laser_away: wel, backports
[09:41] <Laser_away> nope
[09:41] <Laser_away> I believe backports are only allowed for existing packages
[09:42] <Burgwork> jwhitlark: new versions of an existing package can be updated
[09:42] <jwhitlark> I've working on an emacs package that's so dead simple it will work on all, 
[09:42] <Burgwork> completely new packages, no
[09:42] <mnepton> if it's important enough, it will get in
[09:42] <mnepton> but it has to be *drop dead* important
[09:42] <mnepton> otherwise, Feisty
[09:43] <Laser_away> mnepton: not if it's a new package
[09:43] <jwhitlark> perhaps it wouldn't go in universe then.
[09:43] <Burgwork> it can go in Feisty universe
[09:44] <jwhitlark> I want it available for my dapper servers, and while I can do that with a local repository, I was thinking to get it official somewhere...
[09:45] <Laser_away> once a release is released, that's it for new packages
[09:45] <jwhitlark> ah, so it doesn't matter what repository you aim for.  I see.
[09:46] <jwhitlark> So I'm stuck with a local repository, then.
[09:46] <Laser_away> jwhitlark: yep
[09:46] <jwhitlark> got it.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: who put me as the drafter for networkauth?
[09:48] <andrunko> hi all, i am trying to create a package that uses python-distutils, but i have 2 issues, first dh_iconcache is not working (i have to touch the dirs myself after install), and the patches on debian/patches are not being applied. any clues?
[09:48] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: it was probably there from earlier, I'm drafting at the moment
[09:48] <andrunko> here is my debian/rules => http://pastebin.ca/245284
[09:50] <andrunko> i have debian/patches/01_datadir_fix.patch
[09:50] <andrunko> but it's never applied
[09:51] <andrunko> hmm, forget it, i found it, i was missing include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk on debian/rules
[11:02] <jwhitlark> Fatsobob: you here?
[11:06] <Simira> seb128: what happened to everyone? Lunch ate them?
[11:07] <pygi> sivang: ping?
[11:07] <seb128> Simira: what do you mean?
[11:07] <seb128> Simira: that was just lunch time
[11:08] <Simira> seb128: yes. I haven't been able to get in touch with Tollef for more than an hour now. He usually takes some time to talk to me during lunch break, so I wondered if you guys got lost somewhere :p
[11:08] <pygi> hey pitti 
[11:08] <seb128> Simira: there was a google tour after lunch, maybe he did it
[11:08] <pitti> hi pygi
[11:09] <pygi> pitti: good news again ^_^
[11:09] <Simira> seb128: ah, ok. He's here now, though. 
[11:09] <seb128> k
[11:09] <Simira> seb128: having a good time? Or just working hard?
[11:09] <seb128> both
[11:09] <seb128> working hard but having a good time too :)
[12:05] <jdub> ha ha
[12:05] <jdub> i love it when jane is quoted in articles
[12:06] <jdub> you never quite know if they're talking to jane clones with all these different titles or if she's all of those things and more