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| nixternal | alrighty, i have looked over the mallard stuff, the spec, but i have yet to see a working example..i would like to see an example first, because what i am reading is creating either a FAQ type doc, or doing close to what we do now | 01:20 |
|---|---|---|
| dsas | From what I understand it is to be more question and answer style. | 01:30 |
| nixternal | how do we select the questions though? | 01:31 |
| dsas | well, question is the wrong word. for example "I installed a program but now I cant find it" | 01:31 |
| nixternal | ya | 01:31 |
| nixternal | i don't think it is a good idea to get rid of the type of documentation we have as it is, but to do something extra like that as a help system is OK | 01:32 |
| nixternal | then again, topic-based help systems is what microsoft does, and i will admit their help is pretty damn nice ootb | 01:33 |
| nixternal | so for help, ok i like the idea, but for documentation i don't | 01:33 |
| nixternal | as you can see from the forums, #ubuntu, and other support areas, a lot of people like hand holding | 01:34 |
| dsas | It makes sense to me - who reads documentation? People who are experiencing problems, that and curious people. | 01:34 |
| nixternal | a lot of people actually | 01:34 |
| nixternal | if they didn't we wouldn't be getting all the bugs we do | 01:34 |
| dsas | nixternal: But _why_ are they reading it? | 01:34 |
| nixternal | for one, the documentation is really being read from help.ubuntu.com usually prior to them installing | 01:35 |
| nixternal | and if you ask a majority of the people where they go for helpo, they will say the forums | 01:35 |
| dsas | The forums are in a "question and answer" style rather than a manual though. | 01:36 |
| nixternal | see, we can't decide on something w/o input from a large user base, it could be dangerous | 01:36 |
| dsas | True, I guess it depends on how much you blindly trust mpt, upstream and a few others :) | 01:37 |
| nixternal | not many people go through the help locally either | 01:37 |
| nixternal | i don't use local help stuff or documentation, i just write it for kubuntu and kde | 01:37 |
| dsas | I just lurk in #ubuntu-doc and the list ;) | 01:38 |
| Burgwork | upstream is fairly smart | 01:39 |
| Burgwork | shaunm has been writing docs a long time | 01:39 |
| nixternal | im not saying they aren't fairly smart, but it seems they are taking their own ideas and opinions and pushing them into a project, instead of researching it first | 01:40 |
| nixternal | topic based is good, but how many people actually use the help system locally anyways? i don't know..i know i don't, but that doesn't mean millions of others don't | 01:40 |
| Burgwork | are we talkinga bout mallard? | 01:40 |
| Burgwork | mallard has been in plan mode for almost 2 years now | 01:41 |
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| dsas | Isn't ubuntuguide.org, gwos, h.u.c and lots of other commonly used doc sources all topic/faq based too? | 01:42 |
| nixternal | is there any type of documentation for it, besides their rather blank web page that lightly goes over their ideas? | 01:42 |
| Burgwork | there is somewhere | 01:42 |
| Burgwork | ask shaunm | 01:42 |
| nixternal | dsas: you just hit my next point, we have a million help things out there already, is adding another the correct thing? | 01:42 |
| Burgwork | this is more a consolidation thing | 01:42 |
| nixternal | im not against this at all, i just want to understand it more so i can make a uniformed decision, and so if i think it is worth it, contact phil at kde about it, and present it to riddell as well | 01:43 |
| nixternal | so if my questions are rather ignorant, it is because i am towards the idea | 01:43 |
| tonyyarusso | What's mallard? | 01:45 |
| Burgwork | a docbook replacement | 01:45 |
| Burgwork | based around the idea of small, discrete, bits of help | 01:45 |
| Burgwork | linked, wiki style, together | 01:46 |
| dsas | nixternal: If this works out (and licensing issues are resolved) we can integrate more h.u.c/community stuff into the local help. | 01:48 |
| Burgwork | yes | 01:48 |
| nixternal | well, what was the reason with switching to the CC-by-SA 2.5 recently then? because from what I read I thought I seen we would require multiple licenses | 01:49 |
| Burgwork | why do we require multiple licenses? | 01:52 |
| Burgwork | the two were chosen in the hopes that one would be declared non-free by debian | 01:52 |
| Burgwork | however, we have found that we interact little with the debian doc team | 01:52 |
| nixternal | well, according to the spec the CC-by-SA won't work for this | 01:52 |
| === Burgwork needs to read the spec in more detail | ||
| nixternal | the current GNU FDL and Creative Commons licenses have problems | 01:53 |
| nixternal | that is snipped | 01:53 |
| dsas | choosing cc-by-sa buggers up integrating with gnome upstream. but that's apparently out of scope at the minute | 01:54 |
| Burgwork | gnome is considering cc by sa as well | 01:58 |
| Burgwork | and remember, numbers don't matter with cc by sa | 01:58 |
| Burgwork | ie: if you license under 2.0, you have also licensed under 2.5 and 3.0 | 01:58 |
| Burgwork | anyway, I need to go home | 01:59 |
| Burgwork | cya | 01:59 |
| dsas | that could theoretically suck one day | 01:59 |
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| fumbalah | Evening guys | 05:18 |
| fumbalah | Hows everyone doing? | 05:22 |
| theCore | good, you? | 05:26 |
| fumbalah | Doing pretty well | 05:27 |
| theCore | have you taken a look to the docs? | 05:28 |
| fumbalah | theCore: I've edited a few wiki pages today, and basically rewritten another from scratch | 05:29 |
| theCore | oh, that's nice | 05:29 |
| theCore | do you have a copy of the docteam repository? | 05:30 |
| fumbalah | yea, I got one yesterday | 05:30 |
| fumbalah | I'm just starting with the wiki pages to get a feel | 05:31 |
| theCore | do you have some technical knowledge? | 05:33 |
| theCore | or you are mostly doing spell-checking? | 05:33 |
| fumbalah | both :) | 05:34 |
| fumbalah | I help maintain 900 or so machines at my school a few hours daily, so... | 05:34 |
| theCore | ah, that's good | 05:36 |
| fumbalah | yea, hoping to role out edbuntu in a mini lab by the end of the month | 05:37 |
| theCore | in a University? | 05:41 |
| fumbalah | High School | 05:41 |
| theCore | oh, that makes more sense... :) | 05:41 |
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| fumbalah | yea...I want to try it in a few classrooms | 05:41 |
| theCore | those students will be lucky | 05:41 |
| fumbalah | Hopefully :) | 05:41 |
| fumbalah | theCore: Anything in specific you are working on at the moment? | 05:41 |
| theCore | well, nothing related to Ubuntu right now | 05:41 |
| fumbalah | I meant like, not right now, but like, in the coming weeks? | 05:42 |
| fumbalah | Whichc i guess it would have just been easier to say tha | 05:43 |
| theCore | oh, I'm probably continue doing some tech support and roll a graphical application for configuring GRUB | 05:43 |
| fumbalah | ah, nice | 05:44 |
| fumbalah | theCore: Are you the one applying for CC membership at the next meeting? | 05:44 |
| theCore | yes | 05:44 |
| fumbalah | Alright, I thought so | 05:44 |
| fumbalah | I may just watch that process, just to see how to go about it at some point | 05:45 |
| theCore | ah, it is not hard | 05:45 |
| theCore | just keep an history of what you have done | 05:45 |
| fumbalah | alright | 05:46 |
| fumbalah | I've just got to make sure to keep a fair balence between the wiki and actual docs | 05:47 |
| theCore | both are fairly important | 05:47 |
| theCore | a nice way of working on the "official" docs is the merge things from the wiki | 05:48 |
| fumbalah | ah, that makes good sense | 05:49 |
| theCore | Although, I am not saying that you should copy and paste. | 05:49 |
| theCore | even if the Wiki is public domain | 05:49 |
| fumbalah | I would only merge what I wrote anyway :-p | 05:49 |
| nixternal | im not sold on topic based help replacing documentation..and i know i have read that is the plan... | 05:50 |
| nixternal | i am banging my head on that topic here | 05:51 |
| fumbalah | nixternal: I figured you were gone for the night | 05:51 |
| nixternal | i have been working on some servers, and still am | 05:51 |
| nixternal | but during installs and what not, i am reading up on this spec | 05:51 |
| fumbalah | ah | 05:51 |
| nixternal | topic based help == the microsoft help center | 05:52 |
| nixternal | which is good | 05:52 |
| fumbalah | I think how it is works better | 05:52 |
| nixternal | but we can't replace our documents/handbook/manuals | 05:52 |
| nixternal | granted, KHelpCenter really doesn't provide help as much as it provides information, and yelp is the same way though...the help is nothing but manuals, not help | 05:53 |
| fumbalah | yea | 05:53 |
| theCore | ok, I am off | 05:53 |
| nixternal | so i can see a help system being very good, but not replacing documentation | 05:53 |
| nixternal | later theCore! | 05:53 |
| theCore | see ya all | 05:53 |
| nixternal | when is the next CC? | 05:53 |
| fumbalah | nixternal: Shouldnt you know those things :-p | 05:54 |
| nixternal | not really | 05:55 |
| nixternal | but it seems im part of some secret society of late, and maybe i should | 05:55 |
| fumbalah | nixternal: If you'll give me a minute i'll try and find out | 05:56 |
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| nixternal | yoyo Madpilot! | 05:58 |
| Madpilot | hi nixternal | 05:58 |
| fumbalah | nixternal: No idea | 05:59 |
| fumbalah | cant'd find anythingg on it | 05:59 |
| fumbalah | nixternal: Did all my edits look ok? | 06:00 |
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| nixternal | ya they were fine | 06:01 |
| fumbalah | alright, cool, thanks for lookin at em | 06:01 |
| nixternal | no problem | 06:02 |
| fumbalah | you all were really good at getting me started | 06:02 |
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| nixternal | nah, you took it upon yourself to get started, we just jerked the steering wheel every now and again ;) | 06:03 |
| fumbalah | lol, that works too :) | 06:04 |
| fumbalah | I'm just going to work my way down the cleanup page at first | 06:05 |
| nixternal | exactly how i started | 06:07 |
| fumbalah | so how many emails do you average a day with all te wikipedia edits? | 06:09 |
| nixternal | not that many...couple hundred maybe | 06:10 |
| fumbalah | eww | 06:11 |
| fumbalah | Way too many for me | 06:11 |
| nixternal | well, bug emails are more that double that | 06:11 |
| fumbalah | wow | 06:11 |
| Madpilot | nixternal, are you one of the insane people subbed to the entire wiki? Both wikis? | 06:11 |
| nixternal | both wikis | 06:13 |
| nixternal | keeping an eye making sure everyone plays nice | 06:14 |
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| fumbalah | Thats still alot of email | 06:18 |
| nixternal | ya, but filters and kmail rock | 06:19 |
| fumbalah | I prefer gmail and filters, but to each his own | 06:22 |
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| fumbalah | good morning | 03:02 |
| fumbalah | hows everyone? | 03:31 |
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| fumbalah | Good morning | 05:11 |
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| fumbalah | Hi | 07:54 |
| nixternal | oy | 07:57 |
| fumbalah | Get all the server work done last night? | 07:59 |
| nixternal | nope | 08:04 |
| nixternal | man, today is starting out to be quite busy already | 08:04 |
| fumbalah | Need any help with anything? | 08:06 |
| nixternal | can you take my stuff to the cleaners today ;) | 08:06 |
| nixternal | hahaha | 08:06 |
| nixternal | today is my personal day | 08:06 |
| nixternal | i try not to work unless im hit up with some bug stuff | 08:07 |
| fumbalah | ah | 08:07 |
| fumbalah | *uses matter transporter to take your stuff where it needs to go* | 08:07 |
| fumbalah | I'm trying to get a couple new pages typed out today :) | 08:09 |
| nixternal | ya, i don't want to do much today, but rest, and maybe do some school work | 08:12 |
| fumbalah | Good call | 08:13 |
| nixternal | which im sure will be some goofy scripting stuff which i haven't looked at yet | 08:13 |
| fumbalah | Working on the irssi page :) | 08:14 |
| nixternal | irssi page | 08:16 |
| nixternal | oh lord..didn't even know there was one | 08:17 |
| fumbalah | there isnt, i was going to write it | 08:17 |
| nixternal | redirect it to irssi.org ;) it has everything there | 08:17 |
| fumbalah | Alrighty, that works too :), save me some writing | 08:17 |
| nixternal | it is hard writing a page that deals with settings, because of the bias that goes into it, some people may not like the ircii look, or liek the way bitchx works, and blah blah ;) | 08:18 |
| nixternal | the redirect thing was a joke, btw ;) | 08:18 |
| fumbalah | ah, alright..so i shouldnt really bother? | 08:19 |
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| fumbalah | hmm...*ponders what to work on* | 08:27 |
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| fumbalah | so bored | 08:43 |
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| nixternal | food, done chicago style, fixes my bordom, back later ;) | 09:02 |
| fumbalah | hiya | 10:16 |
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| fumbalah | Hows everyone? | 10:31 |
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