FujitsuSp4rKy: If the changes are sane, it's probably acceptable.12:11
Sp4rKythx Fujitsu :)12:11
LutinFujitsu: even if wa can't provide patches ?12:12
FujitsuLutin: wa?12:12
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LutinFujitsu: we12:12
FujitsuWhy can't we provide patches? And what's that got to with the packaging?12:13
LutinFujitsu, if I'm pacakging something from cvs, to have clean source tarball, I need to run make distchekc, right ?12:14
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minghuaand hi Fujitsu12:15
FujitsuHi minghua.12:15
LutinFujitsu: and if we need to make changes on the makefile.am to have it passing make distcheck12:15
Lutinwe can't provide patches for that, as it's not part of the deb build process12:16
FujitsuI'm not sure exactly what the policy with CVS exports is, maybe somebody else can shed some light on it.12:17
Adri2000can I remove the "Depends" line in debian/control for a -data binary package?12:17
crimsunthat would be silly.12:17
FujitsuAdri2000: Why?12:17
Fujitsu(that was a no)12:18
crimsunwhat use is a foo-data package without its corresponding foo?12:18
Adri2000because it's like that in the xmoto package12:18
crimsunthen xmoto should be fixed12:18
Adri2000crimsun: foo-data should depends on foo?12:18
crimsununless it's truly an independent foo-data, yes. Need to look at the specific context.12:19
Adri2000my -data package contains all the images needed by the program12:19
mr_pouitimo, Recommends would be enough :/12:19
crimsunso if someone installed your foo-data, what would they gain without foo?12:20
crimsunis foo-data usable without foo?12:20
Adri2000beautiful images :)12:20
crimsunand what is foo?12:20
crimsunI'm not convinced foo-data would be value-add without foo12:21
crimsunbut sure, you could demote it to a Recommends12:22
minghuacrimsun: there is an argument about avoiding circular dependencies12:22
crimsunI was just going to cite that12:22
minghua(I assume foo depends on foo-data)12:22
crimsuncf. vlc and vlc-alsa12:22
crimsunyou'd have foo Depend on foo-data but foo-data Recommend foo12:23
minghuaand Enhance foo12:23
minghuawe really should use Enhance more12:23
FujitsuEnhance is a valid relation?12:23
FujitsuI've not once seen that used.12:23
crimsunon the other hand, you also have to consider whether it really makes sense to break out the images into a separate package12:24
FujitsuIsn't that somewhat like Suggests?12:24
minghuano, enhance is the other way12:24
Adri2000it seems really confused for the existing packages, some recommends, other depends12:24
minghuaa suggests b usually means b should enhance a12:24
Fujitsuminghua: Oh, of course.12:24
FujitsuSilly me.12:25
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FujitsuIt hasn't updated in at least 4 days.12:25
Adri2000crimsun: the images/ directory is 1,8M12:25
minghuaAdri2000: and how large is everything else?12:25
FujitsuIsn't the limit 2.5M or so?12:25
crimsunpssht, limit. :-)12:26
Adri20003,3M    homebank-3.2/12:26
Adri20001,8M    homebank-3.2/images/12:26
minghuaI won't split if I am the maintainer12:26
FujitsuThe limit for /usr/share in an architecture-specific package is 2.5MB, AFAIK.12:26
FujitsuSo you should be fine with just one package.12:26
crimsunI wouldn't split images simply because it doesn't make any sense12:27
minghuaFujitsu: I don't think there is a hard limit, just guidelines, I believe12:27
Adri2000just to have arch-indep separated from arch-dep12:27
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mr_pouitI am not sure, but lintian complains upon a certain limit (if usr/share it too big in the package)12:30
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Adri2000what about the ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} dependencies of -data?12:33
minghuaby definition you shouldn't have ${shlibs:Depends} for arch independent packages12:34
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Lutinif I use tarball.mk to package something, do I have to make it build-depend on libbz2 ?12:45
plugwashi thought it was bzip2 you needed to depend on12:46
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Lutinthat's it12:46
plugwashbut only if you are using a bzipped tarball12:46
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Adri2000reviewers needed: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3399 :)01:33
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ajmitchAdri2000: homebank-data description is very unhelpful01:38
taghow can I get a list of which packages are currently installed ?01:38
bddebiandpkg -l01:38
Adri2000ajmitch: yeah, just noticed that, I'm re-uploading01:38
ajmitchapart from that, I haven't noticed anything wrong on a 30-second drive-by review01:39
Adri2000ajmitch: "Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de" it doesn't want to re-upload :/01:40
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Adri2000ah yes, I forgot that01:41
Adri2000ajmitch: it's ok now01:42
Adri2000I think the description can be improved, any suggestion is welcome :p01:44
FujitsuAdri2000: The description (both short and long) of homebank-data01:44
FujitsuIt should mention it's the data package.01:45
FujitsuRather than being the same as homebank.01:45
fbondcrimsun, ping?01:45
FujitsuOh, I see it's in the long description...01:45
Adri2000Fujitsu: yep, I looked at a few -data packages, seems there is no standard for that...01:46
FujitsuAdd ` - data files' to the end, or something like that.01:47
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FujitsuLooks good, except for that, and two files missing copyright headers.01:53
Fujitsu(src/colormap.h and src/enums.h)01:54
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Adri2000Fujitsu: I will re-upload tomorrow for the -data description and I will ask upstream about this two files02:01
FujitsuOK, it looks rather good so far.02:01
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crimsunfbond: pong02:20
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fbondcrimsun, interesting factoids I thought you might have an opinion on:02:30
fbondusbfs is getting mounted correctly on my edgy system with no changes to /etc/fstab02:31
fbondit is being mounted under /proc/bus/usb (I had been told it should be mounted under /dev/bus/usb ... ?)02:31
fbondit is mounted when the udev rules trigger the midisport firmware to be loaded02:31
crimsunthat's the correct thing02:32
crimsunI don't know if it will go away or stay02:32
fbondneat; I will still mention it to Scott02:33
fbondthe other thing, and I'm not sure exactly what to make of this:02:33
fbondthe firmware doesn't get loaded properly the first time udev is started, at boot time02:33
fbondI have to explicitly restart udev for it to do the right hting02:33
fbondobviously some delay before the hardware is ready ... ?02:33
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crimsunnope, that's the precise issue I'm talking about02:34
crimsunyou don't need to restart udev02:34
crimsunyou just need to unplug and replug the device02:34
fbondwell, either will work...02:35
crimsun[after /dev/bus/usb is mounted] 02:35
fbond /proc/bus/usb?02:35
crimsunthe issue is that the fw loader isn't getting a correct reference because /dev/bus/usb isn't mounted02:35
crimsun/proc/bus/usb is deprecated02:36
crimsunyou need to use /dev/bus/usb instead if you're going to use fstab(5)02:36
crimsunall supported ubuntu kernels (2.6.1[2579] ) do this properly with the fstab(5) syntax02:37
crimsun(err, well I suppose 2.6.19 isn't supported yet)02:37
fbondok.  then /proc/bus/usb shouldn't be getting auto-mounted ... ?02:37
crimsunno, it's fine if it is02:37
crimsunit's likely legacy support, but you'll want to check w/ Scott02:37
fbondok, but /dev/bus/usb needs to be mounted prior to udev being started?02:37
fbondis there some document that explains any of this stuff?02:38
crimsunno, either /proc/bus/usb or /dev/bus/usb (latter preferred) prior to the _firmware loader_ being executed02:38
fbondthe firmware loader gets executed when udev starts if the device is plugged in at boot time02:38
fbond( right ?)02:39
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crimsunit's executed when the rule executes it02:39
crimsunSYSFS{idVendor}=="0763", SYSFS{idProduct}=="2806", \02:39
crimsun        RUN+="/usr/local/share/usb/maudio/madfuload -l -3 -f /usr/local/share/usb/maudio/ma006100.bin"02:39
crimsunthat's my /etc/udev/rules.d/91_maudio_dfu.rules02:39
crimsun(well, not all of it)02:40
fbondbut ... doesn't udev actually trigger that ?02:40
fbondkernel -> udev -> rule ?02:40
crimsunudev processes the kernel event; it doesn't trigger it02:40
crimsunhttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30920/  is the rule file02:40
fbondkernel events that happen prior to udev starting get processed by udev when udev starts ... right?02:41
fbondso, usbfs needs to be mounted prior to udev starting ?  what am I missing here?02:41
crimsunusbfs does not need to be mounted prior to udev starting02:42
fbondoh ... the event will trigger when usbfs is mounted?02:42
fbondif usbfs is not mounted when udev is started, when does the event trigger?02:42
crimsunno, when the plug event occurs02:42
fbondand if the device is plugged in prior to power up?02:42
crimsunso sometime after the driver for the usb controller is loaded02:42
fbondI don't think the midisport devices work like that...02:43
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crimsunthey do02:43
fbondthe driver doesn't recognize them until _after_ the firmware is loaded, I think....02:43
crimsunwhich "driver" are you referring to?02:43
crimsunbefore the firmware is uploaded, they're seen as holding devices02:44
fbondok, we're stepping outside my realm of understanding...02:44
crimsunonce the firmware is uploaded, the firmware loader will issue a bus reset02:44
fbondi see02:44
fbondso it's a simple usb-serial device that triggers the whole process ... ?02:45
crimsunthere used to be a bug prior to
fbondthis I can understand02:45
crimsuna bug reset would freeze the machine02:45
fbondew .... not good02:45
fbondI didn't start using my midisport with Ubuntu until after 2.6.1202:45
crimsunno. we used to have to boot into Windows, get the firmware loaded, then warm reboot into Linux02:46
crimsunyes, fun for the entire family and then some02:46
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fbondok, so as long as /dev/bus/usb is mounted in /etc/fstab, everything will work out just dandy?  (I thought I tried that, but now I'm not so sure)...02:47
crimsuneither /proc/bus/usb or /dev/bus/usb, yes02:47
crimsunthe latter is preferred02:47
fbondterrific, I have an updated README.Debian that should work fine for now ...02:48
fbondalthough I hope for OOB support for /dev/bus/usb in feisty; will speak with Scott about this.02:48
fbondcrimsun, one more thing:02:51
fbondas far as Scott is concerned, is the solution changing the default /etc/fstab ?02:51
crimsunfbond: unlikely, though I certainly can't (and won't) speak for him02:52
fbondok, I will just see what he thinks...02:53
fbondthanks for your input02:53
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=== Mez anyone want to play some UT2004? ping me
Hawkwindcrimsun: It's a message he sends to every channel he's in, slightly annoying IMO03:17
crimsunright, I got many, many of them03:18
MezHawkwind, actually - I dont know where the /ame came from - it was meant to go to a channel on another server03:19
crimsunit's ok, we're used to spam on this network ;-)03:19
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asabilhi all05:14
sladenello asabil05:18
giskardhello asabil05:23
asabilhow are you ?05:23
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Simon80if I package bleeding edge sources for something, where would be the most appropriate place to share that?05:44
Simon80that something being stepmania05:44
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superm1Simon80, revu06:14
Simon80even though it's straight from latest cvs?06:22
superm1well from CVS no...06:22
superm1we should get a regular package in first06:22
superm1and then if there is a justifiable reason06:22
superm1for CVS06:22
superm1and its proven stable and such06:22
Simon80well, when I have time I can backport it, 3.9's not bad, the question would be copyright issues, what with it being a DDR clone06:22
Simon80I dunno06:22
Simon80not sure how that gets treated06:22
superm1well the app is GPL06:23
Simon80MIT, actually06:23
superm1oh it is06:23
Simon80yep, cept for libmad06:23
superm1i havent looked that cloesly06:23
superm1i was toying with packaging it myself for a bit06:23
superm1and got caught up with other things06:23
Simon80yeah, took me four evenings, haha06:23
superm1well scratch that off my todo list then :)06:23
Simon80cause it's my first, cause it takes a year to build, no free time, and um, need to make it homedir friendly06:24
Simon80mostly cause I was learning how to package though06:24
Simon80I can do rpm and ebuilds, but that was my first deb06:24
superm1well an acceptable solution for now can just be to make it writable by a user with in the "games" group06:24
superm1or something06:24
superm1and then all people in the games group can write to /usr/lib/games/stepmania06:25
superm1or somethign06:25
superm1like that06:25
lophytestepmania is available for linux?06:25
superm1yup :)06:25
superm1long time no see lophyte06:25
lophytenow all I need is a PS2->USB converter that works with Linux and I'm set06:25
lophyteindeed :)06:25
lophytehow's it going06:25
Simon80yeah, I got mine from lik-sang, you shouldn't have driver issues06:25
superm1been busy with myth stuff when i have free time06:26
superm1we have a team going now, but its taking off slowly06:26
Simon80anywho, if anyone wants to, it should be pretty easy to backport my changes06:26
Simon80only 2 code patches06:26
superm1what do you mean by changes?06:26
superm1what kind of stuff did you change06:26
Simon80err.. hard code dlopen path, a bunch of lines to look in home dir and /usr/share/games/stepmania for data06:27
superm1oh okay06:27
Simon80and then there's my rules file06:27
Simon80nothing huge06:27
superm1nothing major then06:27
superm1this should be fairly compatible to 3.9 then06:28
Simon80the thing I did different from other distros is they add a line to "Mount" a folder in your home dir to "/" of stepmania's wierd filesystem abstraction, but I changed that to mounting subdirs , and mounting the /usr/share/games/stepmania dir to "/"06:28
superm1i can tell you though already, be sure to include a bit more about the MIT license in there and what distribution it allows06:29
superm1the copyright file is fairly important06:29
Simon80well, I install it with the package, afaik06:29
superm1ah yes06:29
superm1well when this is submitted to revu, a motu may still not be satisfied with this06:29
superm1because the copyright file is supposed to be downloadable seperate from the package06:30
superm1to read exact details about the license its under06:30
Simon80hehe, see, I have things to learn06:30
superm1well i'm still learning too06:30
Simon80oh, I see, you mean like, docs/COPYRIGHT06:30
superm1just a virtuous teaching cycle06:30
superm1the other thing too - that i was holding off on packaging because is that the data and source are different archives for 3.906:31
superm1so you will have to have two seperate archives06:31
superm1with seperate debian/rules06:31
superm1and seperate source packages06:31
Simon80well, I avoided that by checking out cvs sources and making one package06:31
Simon80you can do that with 3.906:31
Simon80I dunno how to make multiple binary packages yet either, I can learn but I don't have enough time06:32
superm1that *should* be acceptable "rolls eyes"06:32
superm1if there are any MOTUs in the room that can speak up for this right now it'd be good06:33
superm1oh and something else too06:33
superm1the version number your using wouldnt be acceptable06:33
Simon80yeah, for cvs06:33
superm1well more so for the suffixes missing06:34
Simon80oh, ubuntu1?06:34
superm1it needs to be UPSTREAM-0ubuntu106:34
Simon80how do you handle cvs versions?06:34
superm1the 0 constitutes that its not in debian and the ubuntu1 for the first ubuntu version06:34
superm1there was chatter about that a week or two ago, but i dont remember what the exact consensus was on it06:34
superm1let me see if i still hvae that chat log06:34
Simon80well, I know about that, but this package wasn't just gonna get uploaded, I initially just wanted to share it so people can give me tips like this, and also to allow ubuntu users the chance to get stepmania running06:35
Simon80the reason I didn't do 3.9 is cause I selfishly wanted to try the cvs code out06:36
superm1well its important to get the version numbers right even on personal builds06:36
superm1so that if people use it and then it gets added to ubuntu later06:36
superm1they can "upgrade" still06:36
Simon80yeah, it's true.. but that's more about the upstream version06:37
superm1so say if you have a patch for a package that is at 3.0-1ubuntu3, you should name it 3.0-1ubuntu3unofficial106:37
superm1well the logs aren't on this machine, and i dont have access to my other machine where i'm at06:38
superm1can you think of a package that uses a CVS snapshot?06:38
Simon80but that's at 0.cvs..06:38
Simon80with an epoch of 306:39
superm1i still dont personally understand the epoch thing....06:39
superm1or better yet how that works in the versioning scheme06:39
Simon80it's an override if you need to force upgrade even though the actual version "seems" lower to dpkg06:40
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Simon80so if upstream changes ver scheme, you can still have it look like an upgrade06:40
Simon80any other use of it is frowned upon06:40
superm1so its kinda like a hack then to move up the scheme when you mess up the version to start :)06:40
Simon80well, not you, the upstream06:41
superm1well ttf-freefont06:42
superm1so the checkoutdate06:42
superm1and then regular revisioning06:42
superm1and there are plenty of packages that dont even add that cvs to it06:42
Simon80I'm thinking there's no standard, as long as users will get the upgrade when you switch to a release ver06:42
superm1yea thats what i'm gathering scrolling through synaptic too06:43
superm1i think there was just a personal MOTU preference that someone brought up then when this came up06:43
superm1do you know if this builds on amd64?06:44
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Simon80uhhhhhhh... not off the top of my head06:45
Simon80I'll look at the ebuild for 3.906:45
superm1mkay, just wondering since you used architecture any06:45
superm1and i've got an amd64 sitting at an appt06:45
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Simon80oh, um... yeah, oops I guess?06:46
Simon80yeah, gentoo says ~x86 ~zmd64 ~ppc ;D06:46
superm1okay cool then06:46
superm1thats great to hear06:46
superm1how stable is this checkout that you got?06:47
superm1stable enough for usage?06:47
Simon80stable enough to have fun :)06:47
Simon80but there is some prefs weirdness06:47
superm1hehe, but no crashes or what not right?06:47
Simon80well, graphics crash which is I believe not stepmania's fault, I'm on r30006:48
Simon80...err.. r200 too06:48
Simon80didn't bother to see if q3 crashes too.. on restart of context or whatever06:48
Simon80and the sound options seems to crash it06:48
Simon80but 3.9 was fine06:48
Simon80I did useit, just not debbed06:49
superm1well at this point, i'd really like to see this submitted as a package on revu.  if you do the checkout at 3.906:49
superm1i can help you modify it to break into several packages06:49
superm1so that there would be a stepmania and stepmania-data06:49
Simon80there's not really much data, but yeah, that makes sense, cause the binary is arch dependent06:50
superm1if you've got the time, i can walk you thru, if not, i'll grab your sources and go thru it myself in the next coming days06:50
Simon80well, I'll do it sometime, but if you're in a rush, better do it yourself, otherwise give me a week if that's ok06:50
Simon80not that I need a whole week, it's prolly a quick job06:50
superm1well i've got a few other things that i wanted to clean up packaging wise first06:51
Simon80if I can keep my home dir stuff... otherwise I'll do the home dir in the one line mount that gentoo uses06:51
superm1that i've got on my plate06:51
superm1are you on #ubuntu-motu often?06:51
Simon80first time06:51
Simon80I'll keep coming on though06:51
Simon80already in dri-devel06:51
superm1well seems you picked up pretty quickly on this for a first package06:51
Simon80yeah, I'm anti dirty-hack06:52
superm1me too06:52
superm1i despise people who make install source packages06:52
Simon80thanks though, good to hear confirmation that my perfectionism pays off06:52
superm1and dont at least have the decency to checkinstall06:52
superm1its just asking for trouble to spew binaries across a system in my opinion06:52
Simon80well, I dunno, checkinstall is a bit stiff, if it was MY system they aren't checkinstalling on, ok, not nice, but like, with modules, checkinstall fails06:53
superm1well with modules, you have module assistant06:53
superm1for some things06:53
superm1like ivtv and lirc and such06:53
Simon80so it doesn't do everything06:53
Simon80cause.. qc-usb-messenger06:53
superm1yea doesnt do everything06:54
superm1needs a debian style module package installed in /usr/src to work correctly06:54
superm1but with the module packages in place, its a beaut06:54
Simon80just haven't bothered to figure it out yet06:55
Simon80it's always a matter of time with me06:55
superm1okay, well catch back up with me in a few days (sometime mid week next week) and I can either help you through getting this broken up into a few packages or take over and finish it up /submit it to revu and such06:55
Simon80I only first tried out any linux at all aug 2005, lol06:55
Simon80that's me bragging about that, btw, though I wish I'd tried earlier06:56
superm1if not me, there are plenty of very smart MOTUs that frequent the channel at all hours (except the last 5 days with UDS)06:56
superm1thats why things have been dead so much this last week06:56
superm1around here06:56
Simon80ah, I wasn't in though06:57
superm1well even tonite06:57
Simon80but yeah, seemed dead just now06:57
superm1okay well, off to bed with me.  catch ya on soon06:57
Fujitsusuperm1: You said the dirty word up there... :P06:57
superm1hehe hey Fujitsu , you give Simon80 some advice with my departing?06:58
FujitsuSure, ask away, Simon80.06:58
superm1okay night then.06:58
=== superm1 is now known as superm1_away
Fujitsu(I even have some experience with StepMania, but not for a couple of years)06:58
Simon80eh, I don't really have anything to ask though, hehe, just need to work on it, unless you can say how best to version a cvs package06:59
Simon80the DMG is a bit lacking in that department, unless I just need to read more carefully06:59
FujitsuI'd say [current-stables-version] +cvs.[date] -0ubuntu1 is the best bet.07:06
Simon80yeah, so that's > current but < next07:07
FujitsuAnd for a release candidate, it'd be [version-this-is-an-RC-for] ~rcX-0ubuntu1, for example.07:09
=== minghua likes cvs[date] without dot better, but that's just personal preference
Simon80.....is that cause ~ is less and + is more? this is all just a result of ascii comparison, right?07:09
Simon80yeah, I like it without dot too07:10
FujitsuNot quite ASCII comparison.07:10
FujitsuSome of it is.07:10
FujitsuBut ~ is less than an empty string.07:10
FujitsuSo X~Y is less than plain X.07:10
=== Simon80 cracks open the policy manual
minghuaSimon80: read dpkg(1) man page and search for --compare-version07:10
minghuayou don't really want to read the version number part of the policy... :-P07:11
Simon80yea, it doesn't even mention ~07:11
Fujitsu~ is fairly new.07:11
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Simon80oh... months new? weeks?07:12
minghuamonths new, in a sense07:12
FujitsuAlthough Debian's archive has supported it for just a few weeks, AFAIK.07:13
Simon80how do I use this command, ie. how to quickly fetch the return value?07:13
Simon80in bash07:13
Simon80might as well ask, you must know.. otherwise I'd be poring over man bash07:14
minghuaFujitsu: Debian's archive should have supported ~ for months07:15
FujitsuI saw an email fairly recently saying it was now supported...07:16
=== Fujitsu looks it up.
minghuaSimon80: you need "echo $?"07:16
minghuaprobably only 2-3 months07:16
Simon80haha, thanks07:16
minghuabut I believe more than one month07:16
FujitsuOh, you're right.07:17
FujitsuMid-to-late August.07:17
Simon80well then, ~ is nice, I can say 4.0~cvs2006110607:18
FujitsuYep, that's what it's for.07:19
FujitsuI wasn't sure if the next version was going to be 4.0, though, so I went along the safe path with 3.9+07:19
Simon80well, that's exactly what I would have wanted to use, but the DPM didn't mention it07:19
Simon80and yeah, it's definitely not just 3.9+07:20
Simon80has netplay, totally different theme, etc.07:20
Simon80and some bugs :)07:20
Simon80but it's 2 years later07:20
Simon803.9 is 2 years old now07:20
Simon80..........I think?07:20
Simon80I'm prolly wrong there actually, I'm going by cvs file age07:21
minghuayou want 3.9+cvs instead of 4.0~cvs07:21
minghuaversion number is just a meaningless number07:22
Simon80are you sure? it even goes so far as to call itself 4.0 CVS07:22
Simon80in game07:22
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Simon80and yeah, the changelog for 3.9 is 13 mos old, sounds more correct than 2 years07:23
minghuawell, if you are sure there will not be a 4.0 beta, then I don't mind either way07:23
Simon80oh, lol, cause of the cvs thing?07:23
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Simon80one could always go cvs314159+beta07:24
Simon80see, now gentoo handles this stuff07:24
Simon80they standardize on a few suffixes, I think pre, beta, rc07:24
Simon80and r for after release07:24
Simon80so how do I transfer to different upstream sources, is the best practice to just get the alt sources and copy debian/ into them?07:35
FujitsuChange into the current Debian package directory, and run `uupdate /path/to/new/tarball'07:36
Simon80really? I thought that might have even been a stupid question07:37
FujitsuYep, it's that easy.07:37
minghuaFujitsu: is there a guide about playing with this multi-distribution-tool thing?07:38
Fujitsuminghua: Not really, just work it out yourself, basically.07:38
minghuaFujitsu: Hmm.  what is the bzr repo then?07:38
=== minghua starts to feel not quite confident
FujitsuThere's a basic example on the MultiDistroTools page on the wiki, but it doesn't do much.07:39
Fujitsu(and the bzr repo is there too)07:39
minghuaokay, thanks Fujitsu07:40
minghuaBTW feisty is open for upload, right?07:40
FujitsuLaserJock has a branch with my patch at http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/multidistrotools/07:40
FujitsuIt's been open for many a day.07:41
FujitsuI've done most of my merges.07:41
zakamehi all07:42
zakamemerges are open now? :)07:42
Fujitsuzakame: Yep.07:42
FujitsuI finally get to excercise my upload rights without a freeze in effect!07:43
minghuaFujitsu: yes I've seen a bunch of mails from you on feisty-changes07:44
zakamemerges list in the usual place?07:44
Fujitsuzakame: Yep.07:44
Fujitsuminghua: Yes, and more coming soon, hopefully.07:44
minghuaBTW anybody care/able to change the channel topic, then?07:44
zakameFujitsu: cool, let me help out:)07:44
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Fujitsuminghua: Anybody can change it.07:45
zakameerm, copy also copied the return :/07:45
=== zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Fujitsu] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Feisty open for uploads
minghuathe UVF link can go too IMO07:46
=== Fujitsu chops UVF link out.
FujitsuYes, exactyl.07:46
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Fujitsu] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | Feisty open for uploads
Simon80so is there a policy reason why <dist>-updates seems to never have meaty upstream updates in it?07:46
FujitsuSimon80: Stable releases don't get new upstream versions.07:47
zakamewell there's a next release, right? :)07:47
Fujitsu(unless absolutely necessary)07:47
Simon80..yeah, thought so07:47
Simon80just wasn't sure if that applied to uni07:47
FujitsuUniverse updates were even less common than main ones until a week or so back.07:48
Simon80but I think you tend to be overly conservative.. I mean, network manager in dapper was sort of broken07:48
FujitsuBecause we had no policy.07:48
Simon80but now I'm kind of digressing07:48
Simon80that's not even MOTU07:48
Simon80and possibly not even to do with not taking upstream updates07:49
Fujitsu#ubuntu-motu is all about digression. There's rarely much on-topic chatter :P07:49
minghuafor less conservative place there is always -backports07:49
Simon80that's true07:50
Simon80but again, seems to be low traffic07:50
Fujitsu-cue jarring chord-07:50
minghuabut I appreciate tending to err on the side of caution07:50
Simon80oh, some good advice I can ask for, I've never figured out whether there's an easier way to gather build-deps than to try to compile on a naked install, or pore through the configure.ca07:50
minghua(is that correct English by the way?)07:50
FujitsuDapper /is/ supported for 5 years, remember.07:50
Fujitsuminghua: That English is fine.07:50
Simon80on the server, only07:51
FujitsuAnd 3 for desktop.07:51
Simon80not sure how they can say a certain package is server or not07:51
FujitsuSimon80: They've got 2.5 years to decide, I guess.07:51
Simon80ah, pbuilder seems to do what I'm thinking07:51
Simon80naked chroot07:51
Simon80wasn't sure07:51
minghuaLOL at the "2.5 years to decide"07:53
Simon80I love packaging.. I mean, compared to windows, it sucks that upstream doesn't always provide even source packages, but at the same time, linux package management kicks the crap out of running some dude's unsigned setup.exe just to get yourself some free screensavers... *shudder*07:53
Simon80free as in spyware07:53
Simon80not that I don't totally despise windows, lol, growing up with it was enough to do that07:54
=== Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
FujitsuEvening, Burgundavia.07:55
Simon80once I tried ubuntu, I realized it was possible for me to at least transition some of my stuff away from windows... within a few months I was barely booting windows, but I still had some unsratched itches07:55
Simon80other than WPA, that's pretty much dealt with by now07:56
Simon80oh.. and dri07:56
Burgundaviahey Fujitsu07:56
Simon80I'l stop talking OT now :)07:56
FujitsuSimon80: What graphics chipset?07:56
Simon80I want it to be better07:57
Simon80I'm tired of fglrx like I'm tired of windows07:57
Fujitsufglrx really does suck, I know.07:57
Simon80I tried the latest ver just to grab a reg value, and it locks up consistently on X exit07:57
=== Fujitsu hugs his integrated Intel card. Not great for 3D stuff, but it doesn't need proprietary stuff.
Simon80never had a release of that that didn't have some logout bug07:58
zakamestill great for d games though :D07:58
Simon80 d games?07:58
Simon80I have an i810 that I briefly test drove with quake3, so I realize yeah, intel is a better choice for that07:58
Simon80if that was any indication as to support for their newer sets07:59
=== minghua made sure he chose the intel graphic card for his new laptop
Simon80well, when I got my lappy, I didn't know or care about these issues08:01
Burgundaviawhat about those rumours of ATI releasing specs?08:02
Simon80I'm hardcore now though, one could consult me on hardware purchasing, I think08:02
Simon80I'm waiting for that08:02
minghuayeah, maybe "made sure not to chose extra ATI graphic card" is more close to the truth :-P08:02
Simon80I mean, compatibility wise08:02
Simon80...I'm not all that knowledgeable about it actually, wireless wise, I can say whether a chipset has a driver, but I don't know which ones will work with NM and WPA08:03
Simon80that'd be nice to know08:03
Simon80....I do have WPA working on my 770 though :D08:04
FujitsuBurgundavia: Which rumours?08:04
Simon80amd buyout...08:04
=== minghua wants to start merging work too
minghuanow only if I can manage to install edgy on my desktop08:05
Simon80As for open driver support, Cherry says that things have gotten better in the last year, particularly with improved support for wireless devices and better support for video cards. He also says that "we have confirmation" that ATI is moving towards opening up its capabilities for video drivers since the company's acquisition by AMD.08:05
=== minghua sighs
Simon80I'd say that's more than a rumour08:05
Simon80just a matter of waiting for their big post merge press release08:05
FujitsuThat'll be nice...08:06
Simon80but either way, specs aren't enough, and also, the other thing I heard was a "functional subset"08:06
Simon80so.. yeah, till my M10 is as fast or faster on linux than on windows, I'm not happy08:06
FujitsuSpecs are enough, though they're not ideal.08:06
Burgundaviaspecs might lead to official support08:06
Burgundaviadid you see Keiths notes?08:06
zakamehmm anyone else here encountered resume failures after hibernate?08:06
FujitsuIf they open their specs/drivers, they can expect pretty much every Linuxer to move to them.08:07
Burgundaviazakame: rock solid08:07
Fujitsuzakame: I can't hibernate, due to my encrypted everything.08:07
Burgundaviaexcept that Nvidia is being agressive at tracking X changes now08:07
Simon80yeah, nvidia is pretty good with the closed source I gather08:07
zakameBurgundavia: I take that as OK right? :)08:07
Simon80but not enough to be as good as windows in the last, admittedly not recent, benches I've seen08:08
Burgundaviazakame: I have seen resume failures08:08
Simon80I think that's a year ago now though, kind of irrelevant08:08
Burgundaviazakame: no resume failures, rather08:08
zakamewaah :(08:09
Simon80btw, for wireless, I recommend motorola's wr850G, great product so far08:09
FujitsuI recommend an appropriately configured Dapper box with a lot of NICs.08:10
Simon80not doing much with it though, it's being used as a wired/wireless AP08:10
zakamewell my kubuntu here doesn't resume properly, kernel (or is it initrd) can just seem to see the image on swap upon resume08:10
Simon80and lol @ Fujitsu, I'm sure that'd cost more than 32CAD08:10
FujitsuI had a spare box sitting around, I needed to move services off the family computer.08:11
Simon80and I dunno which NICs have drivers that can do master mode well08:11
Simon80come to think of it, I'd make a pretty bad consultant on wireless hardware..08:11
Simon80and linux08:11
FujitsuIt's got Dapper installed, runs 4 NICs (wireless LAN, internet, wired LAN, and an extra LAN one 'cause the switch is too small), does Apache, DHCP, DNS, MySQL, mail, internal file sharing, and more!08:12
FujitsuAll for the grand price of nothing.08:12
Simon80how nothing? I don't see my local staples selling these wonderboxen for free08:13
BurgundaviaSimon80: I don't see you in #ubuntu-ca08:14
Simon80hmm.. should I be?08:14
Burgundaviayes. Otherwise my goon squad will come after you08:14
=== Burgundavia continues to grow his loco team via threats and intimidation
zakamebring it on08:15
Simon80oh god, shaw cable... I guess it can't be that bad, but we had a bad roger's connection for a while, used to be shaw before that switchup08:16
Simon80..just commenting on your ISP08:16
Burgundaviashaw is better than telus08:16
Simon80I wouldn't really know08:16
Simon80but I switched to Bell, way faster, lower latency too08:16
Burgundavianothing but Telus and Shaw out here08:16
Simon80yeah, rogers/bell here08:16
Simon80you must be out west?08:17
Simon80or east, I dunno08:17
Simon80not gonna go look it up08:17
Simon80the areas that shaw does, I mean08:17
Burgundaviavictoria, bc08:17
Simon80see? west.. lol08:17
FujitsuSimon80: The box and WAP were obsolete at school, so I grabbed 'em.08:21
Simon80lol, there's this one box at work today, would turn right back on if the OS powered it off08:21
Simon80hard shutoff worked though08:21
Simon80yeah, it's like, desktop -> server, lol08:21
Simon80it's high-availability... even if you don't want it to be08:22
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minghuabedtime for me08:32
minghuabye everyone08:32
Simon80I should sleep08:32
Simon80I'll put up a properly versioned stepmania package tomorrow.. stepmania-3.9 sometime to follow08:33
FujitsuBye, Simon80.08:33
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=== Burgundavia stirs shit
=== nixternal puts salt on it to make it taste better
=== Simon80 makes a turd sandwich out of the rat materials graciously presented by members of the ubuntu packaging community
Simon80you can find it on REVU08:55
nixternalBurgundavia: i see what you are stirring08:55
Burgundavialets see what that stirs up08:56
nixternalit is true though08:57
Burgundavianixternal: do you have my direct rss or something?08:57
nixternalno, i had an idea of where you might be stirring08:57
nixternalbut i have you bookmarked08:57
Burgundaviahint: binary08:57
nixternallook towards the planet08:58
Burgundaviathat bright shining light is me08:58
=== Burgundavia is full of himself this evening
nixternalah well, bed time for me09:00
Simon80omg, they're shipping binary shit in feisty?09:00
Simon80err.. stirring*09:01
poningrunixternal: nn09:01
=== Fujitsu stirs up some LP controversy.
=== Fujitsu applauds Burgundavia on that blog post.
poningruI dont see it09:03
FujitsuIt's not on Planet yet.09:03
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Simon80yeah, seriously, I agree completely, and would rather not compromise those ideals for the sake of that stuff working by default09:03
FujitsuBut Burgundavia's blog posts are always rather good, so I subscribe to that feed :)09:03
=== rpedro [n=rpedro@87-196-13-95.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-motu
robitailleand  planet finally picked it up just now09:04
=== poningru hugs Burgundavia
=== Burgundavia hugs poningru
Simon80well, damn right, I like the example too09:05
=== Fujitsu goes off to eat something.
TheMusoBurgundavia: Agree 100%09:14
BurgundaviaTheMuso: sad reality is that compiz/beryl do offer some cool accessibility things09:15
TheMusoWhy is that a sad reality?09:16
Burgundaviabecause for it to truly work, we do need good 3d drivers09:16
Simon80ok, so, rephrased, the sad reality is that the open source drivers are woefully inadequate09:16
Burgundaviaand those ATI/AMD specs are not going to make Feisty, I bet09:17
Simon80you never know, they have till feb09:17
Simon80but like, they'd need more than specs by then09:17
Burgundaviaand in that time they need to release the specs and then write the drivers09:18
TheMusoIntel really should make their video chipsets dedicated cards.09:18
Simon80cause like, at least one dev has some for of nda info09:18
Simon80hasn't miraculously made things better09:18
TheMusoI don't care if intel doesn't perform as well as ATI/NVIDIA, as I don't need the card to be powerful enough for games etc.09:18
TheMusoI'd gladly install Intel cards in any new machine I build.09:19
BurgundaviaI am glad I have an intel card in this laptop09:19
Burgundaviamy desktop machine, with its ATI, is almost never on these days09:19
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Simon80well, mine is, but with r300 only09:21
Burgundaviamy 9600 could probably do r300, but I haven't bothered, since I am on it about once every two or three weeks09:22
TheMusoSo if the 3945 chipset is getting free firmware, what about ipw2{1,2}00 cards?09:23
Simon80I have an M1009:23
Simon80.......aka mobility 960009:23
=== Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu
FujitsuTheMuso: A good question...09:26
TheMusoI'm glad that the only machine I have that needs binary blobs is my notebook.09:27
Hobbsee_hey TheMuso, Fujitsu09:27
=== Hobbsee_ wonders what the question was
FujitsuMorning Hobbsee_.09:27
TheMusoBut as it is, just about all new notebooks running Linux today need a binary blob of some sort to be fully usable.09:28
Fujitsu<TheMuso> So if the 3945 chipset is getting free firmware, what about ipw2{1,2}00 cards?09:28
Simon80err.. this is OT and somewhat nosy, but are there two sarah hobbs'?09:28
Hobbseegah, it did connect.  wonder what was said09:28
Burgundaviamorning Hobbsee09:28
Simon80Sarah Hobbs*09:28
HobbseeSimon80: nope, only one.  my client didnt connect in properly.  why?09:28
FujitsuSarah Hobbses, you mean? :P09:28
HobbseeSimon80: i think there's only one sarah to do with ubuntu, actually09:28
FujitsuOr Sarahs Hobbs?09:28
Simon80yeah, I mean in meatspace09:28
Simon80......err, actually, the opposite, I mean on google ;)09:28
HobbseeTheMuso: the 3945 is getting free firmware?  that's why mine was recognised out of the box?  way cool!09:29
HobbseeSimon80: most of the hobbsee's on google are me, and i'm none of the sarah hobbs' on there09:29
Hobbseeunless they're specifically to do with ubuntu or something09:29
Simon80lol, the artist09:29
=== Hobbsee cannot draw, and is not of the art type
TheMusohas it mentioned down the page a bit.09:29
Simon80oh man, it's not drawing, oh no09:29
Hobbseesorry, photography09:30
zakameyo Hobbsee09:30
Simon80no need to apologise, I'm just amused by a shelf full of similar plants being exhibited09:30
HobbseeTheMuso: in the case of that, i'm of the opinion that if my wifi card works OOTB, i'm happy.  i dont really care if its' free or not free.  if it uses ndiswrapper, then that's good, but that's still a pain - and that's what i view as more troublesome.09:31
HobbseeSimon80: :)09:31
=== Hobbsee didnt think anyone would google for her under sarah hobbs
FujitsuMy Launchpad page is on the 3rd page for "william grant"09:32
TheMusoHobbsee: If I have no choice, I will use hardware with binary blob drivers, however I prefer to use completely free and open driver code.09:32
Simon80sorry, lol, I google people a lot, it's a bit nosy, I'd say09:32
HobbseeTheMuso: true09:32
HobbseeSimon80: it's fine.  i'm very careful what i put online anyway09:32
Burgundaviaclearly all you need two things 1) less common names 2) more google juice09:32
TheMusoOther software, such as software synthesizers however, are a different story./09:32
BurgundaviaI am nearly every hit for Corey Burger09:33
FujitsuGah, stupid evil search results like `The boundary of Sir William Alexander's grant was therefore to be...'09:33
Simon80err.. found your age09:33
Simon80Hobbsee: ^09:33
Simon80I suppose that's no biggie09:33
HobbseeSimon80: what is it?09:33
TheMusoPut Luke Yelavich in, and I can pretty much assure you that at least the first couple of pages are hits to do with archives etc that I have been involved with over the last three and a bit years.09:33
Simon80Hobbsee: 18?09:34
HobbseeSimon80: wow, so that is there09:34
=== Hobbsee wonders where that was
Simon80oh, you didn't intentionally publish? lol09:34
Hobbseewell, i say various bits in these channels09:34
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Simon80geez, I wish I was using linux when I was 1809:35
Hobbseespeaking of which, i want to see 915resolution be integrated into main and the installer09:35
Hobbsee(not having looked at the code)09:35
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TheMusoHobbsee: Do you have a new laptop now?09:35
joejaxxHello All09:35
Hobbseebecause it's the only thing that gets my laptop working at correct resolution - and it works every time09:35
TheMusoSounds like it09:35
HobbseeTheMuso: yep :)09:35
TheMusoHobbsee: Cool!09:35
crimsun(I think you want the modesetting branch of i810 merged instead)09:35
HobbseeTheMuso: only 3 things dont working out of the box09:35
TheMusoHobbsee: Cool.09:35
BurgundaviaI was going to point that out as well09:36
Hobbseecrimsun: quite possibly.  whatever lets me use 1280x800 natively09:36
Hobbseecrimsun: nothing in edgy, apart from the 915resolution does09:36
BurgundaviaHobbsee: you want the modesetting branch09:36
crimsunxserver-xorg-video-intel in universe does.09:36
HobbseeBurgundavia: right09:36
Hobbseecrimsun: i didnt find that helped?  not sure09:36
=== Fujitsu just merged 915resolution, the automatic stuff got accepted by the Debian maintainer! Yay.
crimsunit worked for me, but it has significant bugs on VT switch that can either lock the machine or spur a restart of the X server09:37
Fujitsucrimsun: I don't think that got the right resolution for me either...09:37
Fujitsu915resolution works for now :)09:38
crimsunxserver-xorg-video-intel in edgy/universe is 1.6.0; Debian Sid's xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting is a git snapshot from Oct 14th that fixes many of those issue09:38
Simon80holy crap: https://launchpad.net/people/hobbsee/+packages09:38
Simon80that is all09:38
HobbseeSimon80: hahaha09:38
Hobbseemost of them were when i was *not* a MOTU09:38
Simon80what do you mean?09:39
HobbseeSimon80: ie, when i still had to get other people to upload them09:39
Simon80as in this list is largely incomplete?09:39
crimsunfbond: as of feisty's 2.6.19-5.7, because there's no matching udev yet, the event handling seems a bit odd. I have to restart udev as you mentioned.09:40
HobbseeSimon80: no, the list is incomplete09:41
HobbseeSimon80: i was more saying "most of those i had to get other people to upload for me"09:41
HobbseeSimon80: oh, and that list doesnt include all the syncs that i've requested, either09:41
Simon80hobbsee: "the list is incomplete" - you mean complete?09:41
FujitsuHobbsee: In most cases it does include syncs.09:41
HobbseeSimon80: sorry, yeah09:42
HobbseeFujitsu: really?  i didnt think so09:42
HobbseeFujitsu: i thought taht just got attributed to the syncer09:42
FujitsuIt gets attributed to you, except when the archive admin puts in in the wrong name.09:42
Fujitsu(which generally only happens for sponsorships)09:42
Simon80what do you mean by sync?09:42
FujitsuHobbsee: For example:09:43
Fujitsulibqalculate   Ubuntu Edgy   0.9.4-509:43
FujitsuSimon80: Import a package from Debian Sid without changes.09:43
HobbseeFujitsu: ahh, okay09:43
FujitsuOnly 209 Edgy uploads, Hobbsee. Not good enough.09:44
Hobbseeyeah, and fewer feisty ones09:44
Hobbsee(holy strike - that many?)09:44
Fujitsu50 Dapper ones...09:44
Fujitsu4 Feisty...09:44
Simon80I'm very age competitive, this sort of thing bugs me a tiny bit09:44
Simon80I see it and go dammit! outdone again!09:44
Simon80...cause I'm 20, see09:45
FujitsuAh, but I'm 15 :P09:45
Burgundaviayou young whippersnappers09:45
Simon80oh, oh no, you're serious?09:45
Burgundaviaus old farts are nearly in our wheelchairs09:45
=== Fujitsu whippersnaps Burgundavia.
joejaxxBurgundavia: do you use any non-source packages?09:45
FujitsuSimon80: Yep.09:45
=== crimsun hobbles around with his walker
joejaxxSimon80: ! :D09:45
FujitsuI've got 1 Breezy, 2 Dapper, 130 Edgy, 10 Feisty.09:45
Burgundaviajoejaxx: madwifi09:46
HobbseeFujitsu: heh.  that's because i've looked at the merges and gone "i dont wan tto think about that yet"09:46
Simon80how long have you two been at this sort of thing?09:46
FujitsuI've been at it since early July.09:46
Simon80and you're already packaging?09:46
=== Hobbsee didnt do anyhting for breezy, except test a cd
Simon80both of you?09:46
=== Fujitsu looks up the logs of that occasion when he came in and asked how he could help.
FujitsuHobbsee: My Breezy upload was a security update a couple of months back.09:46
Burgundaviajoejaxx: there is a fundamental difference between madwifi and the ati/nvidia drivers. First of all, madwifi already has Atheros involvement. 2nd, it is truly needed09:47
Simon80I really should have gotten into this earlier, I did ebuilds first, and it seems impossible to get a new ebuild into their tree09:47
TheMusoI've been doing stuff on and off for about 4-6 months packaging wise anyway09:47
FujitsuSimon80: I was approved as a MOTU a couple of months ago, so yes.09:47
TheMusoI have been helping with other stuff in general for a lot longr.09:47
Simon80ohh, you only got into packaging in early july? not linux related stuff in general?09:47
Simon80cause I was more wondering how long you've been using *nix09:48
Hobbseesince about july 0509:48
Simon80aug 05 here09:48
TheMusoBeen using Linux since January 01 here.09:48
crimsunaugust 06 :-)09:49
Hobbseecrimsun: rubbish09:49
Simon80well, I only made my first deb package this week :(09:49
Simon80it's for 1106 cvs source of stepmania09:49
FujitsuI'm February '01, or thereabouts.09:49
TheMusocrimsun: Thats rubbish and you know it.09:49
Simon80any ddr geeks may want to check it out09:49
Fujitsu@lart crimsun09:50
ubuntu-esFujitsu: Error: "lart" is not a valid command.09:50
joejaxxBurgundavia: i just do not see the difference between those two non-source packages09:50
Burgundaviajoejaxx: my blog post is primarily about companies joining the open source movement, rather than just non-source packages09:51
joejaxxBurgundavia: oh ok09:52
Burgundaviajoejaxx: Atheros is already actively working on their Linux driver. Not shipping it really doesn't tell them anything09:52
Burgundavianot shipping the ati/nvidia drivers has been a fairly clear message to ati and nvidia09:53
TheMusoBurgundavia: I like the fact that the madwifi binary blob will be gone in the future09:53
BurgundaviaTheMuso: the free ath stuff?09:53
BurgundaviaI am skeptical about it09:53
TheMusoBurgundavia: yeah09:53
TheMusoOne thing that worries me, is that companies who see others release GPL drivers, but binary firmware, will be encouraged to do the same thing, with the argument that they are making drivers available etc.09:55
Burgundaviajoejaxx: wireless drivers are a completely different kettle of fish, due to the fact that companies such as Intel, who has clearly shown they are a friend of open source, still have binary firmware09:55
TheMusoBurgundavia: But they aren't really a friend of open source if they make binary firmware.09:56
joejaxxBurgundavia: yeah i guess09:56
TheMusoThats the way I see it anyway.09:56
TheMusoEspecially if they are taming up with the likes of MS to put in TPM modules in future gens of CPUs and mobo chipsets etc.09:57
Burgundaviatpm is dead09:57
Burgundaviait has failed in teh marketplace, which is where it needs to fail09:57
TheMusoAny official data/web site to show that?09:57
Burgundavianobody is using it, even the new Vista and OS X09:58
Burgundaviaif there was a place I expected to see it, it was Vista09:58
TheMusoYet will it still be a part of future computer hardware?09:58
Burgundaviaapple has already talked about removing it from their future computers09:58
TheMusoIf so, MS could easily turn around a release updates that forces vista to use it.09:58
Burgundaviathey could09:59
Burgundaviabut if nobody is using it, then it becomes something that can be removed to save money09:59
TheMusoWell its good that it has failed then.09:59
Burgundaviaand when your margins as small as a hardware manufacturers are, even cents matter09:59
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TheMusoBUt how is it already known as a failure?09:59
Burgundaviabecause it has been in existance for almost 5 years with absolutely no interest10:00
TheMusoAh ok.10:00
Burgundaviaie: the entire development time of Vista10:00
FujitsuTPM is used in Vista.10:00
TheMusoI think some new notebooks come with it already.10:00
FujitsuBitLocker requires it.10:00
TheMusoI vaguely remember seeing something about a security chip in my notebook's BIOS.10:01
HobbseeTheMuso: not on mine, that i kjnow of :)10:01
Simon80not on my 2 yo m6811 either10:02
Burgundaviaright, but bitlocker is how a tpm chip is supposed to be used10:02
Simon80unless cpu serial counts10:02
Burgundaviafor end user encryption10:02
FujitsuBurgundavia: True.10:02
Simon80err... that's bad10:02
Simon80get it useful for that10:02
Simon80and then... once people NEED the tpms10:02
Simon80you can fill in the rest10:02
Burgundaviathere are similar tools for OS X10:02
BurgundaviaOS X has clearly rejected the TPM. Linux will never have it10:03
BurgundaviaI am not worried10:03
BurgundaviaFujitsu: and bitlocker doesn't require tpm10:03
FujitsuBurgundavia: Last time I saw a screenshot (about a week ago), it did.10:04
Burgundaviadepends what you do with it10:04
FujitsuYou know what would be nice to have in the near future? A nice GUI for setting up encrypted partitions in Ubuntu. Having usplash with a nice password/USB-drive prompt would be nice and shiny10:04
Burgundaviabetter to do it in GDM, but ya10:05
FujitsuEncrypted root shouldn't be excluded as a use-case.10:05
BurgundaviaFedora did some inital work to push GDM further down the chain, to replace their usplash equiv10:05
crimsunfwiw, feisty's current uswsusp prompts the user on dist-upgrade whether (s)he wants to enable an enciphered partition10:06
TheMusoI personally think any drive encryption is dangerous. The tech may be proven, but then there is the problem of data integrity, passwords/passphrases etc.10:06
Burgundaviawith upstart, that becomes more feasible10:06
crimsunif yes is chosen, the user enters a passphrase10:06
Simon80Fujitsu: I agree totally, but it's a question of how much work is involved thinking through the UI and implementing10:06
Simon80got any DDR geeks in the crowd today?10:07
Simon80.....for the reason I mentioned above10:07
FujitsuSimon80: I haven't played it in a couple of years, but I used to be able to do 9 or 10 feet in StepMania.10:08
FujitsuI have a friend who plays it constantly, though :P10:08
Simon80yeah, 9-10 feet is pretty crazy10:09
Simon80I'm at 5-710:09
FujitsuCrazy? It's EASY!10:09
FujitsuHave you uploaded those packages anywhere?10:09
Simon80yeah, nobody asked10:09
Simon80I even linked prolly10:09
=== Fujitsu reads back.
=== Hobbsee dinners
Simon80there goes my real name10:10
Simon80in exchange for people seeing my meagre web page10:10
Simon80which I use to waste time reading news, hehe10:10
Fujitsu`Stepmania Debian package' gives a 404.10:11
Simon80ah, I nuked my .htaccess, sorry10:11
Simon80one min10:12
TheMusoFujitsu: Did you follow any howto for encrypting everything?10:13
FujitsuTheMuso: No.10:13
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Fujitsucryptsetup isn't hard to work out.10:13
TheMusoSo did you have to set the partitions up with a live CD before you installed?10:13
Simon80.htaccess uploaded10:14
Simon80if you added deb http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/ ./ it would have worked anyhow.. but that's definitely no excuse10:14
FujitsuHeheh, thanks.10:15
Simon80lets see if I can change versions through my little repo-ish thing10:15
Simon80hrm, apparently 20061106 is newer than 4.0~cvs20061106?10:16
=== Simon80 pulls out dpkg
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Simon80makes sense I guess, 4 < 2006110610:17
Simon80new and improved over the other 20061105 versions of stepmania10:17
Simon80ok, I'm actually going to bed now, this is insane10:29
Simon80my fault, but like, during the week, I get up ~2.5 hours from now10:30
Simon80my fault for staying up I mean10:30
crimsunsome of these bugs are ridiculous (e.g., 71330)10:32
Fujitsubug #7133010:32
UbugtuMalone bug 71330 in Ubuntu "Just installed latest NVIDIA driver NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9629-pkg1.run" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/7133010:32
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=== Fujitsu ponders setting up a bot which gets bug mail and looks for newly-rejected bugs with a `crack' tag, looks up the the submitter's Freenode nick (if any), and ridicules them in all Ubuntu-related channels they're in :P
zakamesmoking-crack tag10:35
zakamefor borken translations its smoking-pot10:36
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Sp4rKyhi mr_pouit10:38
mr_pouithi Sp4rKy10:38
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Hobbseehmmm...everyone left11:40
FujitsuHobbsee: They do that.11:41
HobbseeFujitsu: :(11:41
FujitsuStupid timezones.11:42
TheMusoCan't do much about timezones.11:42
FujitsuSure we can.11:42
FujitsuObliterate them.11:42
FujitsuUTC for all.11:42
Hobbseewho cares if it's bright sunshine at 3am?11:44
Hobbseeand pitch black at 2pm?11:44
FujitsuWho cares!11:44
FujitsuIt'd make things interesting!11:44
Hobbseeof course, there would then be no such thing as jetlag11:44
FujitsuWhich would be convenient.11:45
FujitsuImagine IRC, though... You'd have a set time where EVERYBODY was asleep.11:46
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geseris it ok to depend on xlibmesa-gl-dev or should this be changed to libgl1-mesa-dev?11:55
Hobbseegeser: should be changed11:57
Hobbseegeser: but if that's the only thing stopping a sync, i'd probably just sync it11:57
geserthanks, that would explain the last comment on bug 7126711:58
UbugtuMalone bug 71267 in guichan "[Merge]  guichan 0.4.0-4.1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/7126711:58
Hobbseegeser: yes, i'd say so12:06
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zakamefinally found a solution to my hibernate bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/6920801:36
UbugtuMalone bug 69208 in Ubuntu "Bug #42299 survives on upgrade from Dapper Drake to Edgy" [Medium,Confirmed] 01:36
chantrahi there , is there any motu around01:47
Hobbseechantra: what for?01:48
zakamefor what?01:49
chantraHobbsee: cause i uploaded a package to revu01:52
chantrabut actually, the package is too much in an alpha state01:53
Hobbseechantra: what's the package name?  i can remove it if you want01:53
chantraand has no point in being uploaded01:53
Hobbseechantra: gone01:54
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Adri2000Fujitsu: here?02:04
Adri2000Fujitsu: in the changelog of transcalc (0.14-0ubuntu1): "Change dependencies to libgtk2.0-dev and libglib2.0-dev" but:02:10
Adri2000apt-cache depends libgtk2.0-dev | grep libglib2.0-dev02:10
Adri2000  Depends: libglib2.0-dev02:10
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sladenzakame: could you add your comments to that bug please02:14
zakamesladen: #69208?02:30
zakamejust did a while ago02:30
zakamealthough in my case, there already was an /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume file, containing just `RESUME='02:31
FujitsuAdri2000: I'm back now... They were like that in the old version, I just changed the versions... It's not caused any harm.02:43
Adri2000Fujitsu: ok, just noticing it :)02:43
FujitsuThat new version has been out for 3 years, and the maintainer still hasn't updated the Debian package :(02:44
Adri2000whoaw 3 years!02:45
FujitsuAnd another bug in that package has been open for 20 or so days short of 5 years...02:47
zakamein need of serious RFA i think02:48
FujitsuOr an NMU. It's so obscure, I don't think anybody would adopt it.02:49
zakameright, nmu02:50
zakameor a removal, if popcon's low02:51
FujitsuWe have at least one user in Ubuntu; a bug was filed which prompted me to update it.02:51
Fujitsu10598 in Debian popcon02:53
=== Fujitsu decides 1am is a good time to go to bed.
FujitsuGoodnight, everybody!02:54
Adri2000good night Fujitsu, tomorrow see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3401 ;)02:55
FujitsuI shall, Adri2000.02:55
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rpedrohi, does someone know how to get good debug info from HAL, or at least how to restart it without a reboot02:59
rpedroit's this bug I reported a while ago : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/6857403:01
UbugtuMalone bug 68574 in hal "Issue with (mostly) fat32 devices, and HAL fails to even initialize after new login" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 03:01
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Yagisanpalski, bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rats/+bug/63561 updated. happy hunting.04:36
UbugtuMalone bug 63561 in rats "Segmentation fault when auditing code" [Undecided,Needs info] 04:36
kiko-zzzwhat's rats, Yagisan?04:36
Yagisankiko-zzz, its supposted to audit software for obvious secrity bugs04:37
kiko-zzzah, I see04:37
Yagisanit just dies on some code I run it on04:37
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Lutinafternoon :)04:38
ajmitchkiko-zzz: I won't have time to look & fix your bug before I get back, sorry :)04:38
kiko-zzzajmitch, bah! ok. :)04:38
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Lutinwhat's the policy about packaging programs coming from cvs ?04:39
=== Yagisan blinks. ajmitch here at 4am his time ?
ajmitchhey Yagisan04:40
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Yagisanhey mate. I'm sick as a dog, so I'm deleting^W reading my email04:40
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Lutinno clue ?04:47
zakameLutin: on a per-package basis, iirc; we have REVU04:48
zakamealthough its more desireable iirc to backport patches from cvs04:49
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Lutinzakame: I mean, is there a policy on packaging _new_ programs coming from cvs04:51
zakameI don't think there's a formal policy atm; new packages do need to be REVu-ed though04:52
Lutinsuch as 'you can remove the 'CVS' dirs as you want', or 'you need to run make distcheck to have a clean source tarball'04:53
zakamewell you definitely want to remove the CVS dirs as that would break debian-policy (lintain will warn you)04:54
zakamethat is, you'd want a cvs export, not a cvs chekcout04:54
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Lutinzakame, ok05:00
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bddebianHeya gang05:18
bddebianHeya ajmitch05:19
zakamehi bddebian05:19
bddebianHello zakame05:19
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minghuaHuh, triage is not an English word but a French one05:55
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jdongwhy does wxwidgets2.6 use gtk1 instead of gtk2?06:06
jdongit doesn't06:08
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luisbgjdong, Bug 7065806:27
UbugtuMalone bug 70658 in audacity "depends on wxgtk2.4" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/7065806:27
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jdongquick versioning question...06:45
jdongif I were to, say, make a gaim beta5 package for impatient waiters, how should I version it so that debian sid packages would override it when made?06:46
jdong      gaim | 1:2.0.0+beta4-4 |      unstable | source, i38606:47
minghua(assuming debian maintainer keeps his version scheme)06:47
jdongminghua: ok. Is there a set convention for these kinds of things?06:48
minghuajdong: not in debian06:48
minghuaas only maintainer is supposed to know all the uploads except NMU06:48
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imbrandonwhast the dissid current version06:49
minghuafor NMU version numbers there is a policy, of course06:49
jdongimbrandon: 1:2.0.0+beta4-406:49
plugwashjdong for a custom package i would use 1:2.0.0+beta5-0yourname106:51
minghuaactually, since I am talking about NMU now06:51
jdongwould ~0yourname1 work too?06:51
minghuaI believe the correct version number for a new upstream NMU is 1:2.0.0+beta5-0.106:52
plugwashjdong probablly but there is no real need to use ~ here since official debian packages generally start at -106:52
plugwashand its highly unlikely that gaim will get a new upstream version uploaded by anyone other than its co-maintainer06:53
plugwash(its maintainer seems to have dissapeared)06:53
=== jdong drops some beta4 packages and attempts a test build
jdongbtw, anyone know why pbuilder in edgy is so much slower than dapper?06:55
jdongin satisfy-depends?06:55
giskardplugwash, who is the real maintainer?06:55
jdongit quite literally is 10x slower06:55
plugwashgiskard well according to p.q.d.o the maintainer is robert mcqueen and co-mainter is ari pollak06:57
plugwashbut ari seems to be doing virtually all the maintaining (roberts last changelog entry is from last april)06:59
giskardplugwash, i guess robot101 is busy with other things, and ari is doing a great work on gaim.06:59
giskardplugwash, indeed.06:59
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=== plugwash strongly suspects ari will upload beta5 soon after etch release
jdongplugwash: heh, well, forumers are starting to whip out their checkinstall already, so I thought I'd offer them the lesser of two evils07:04
jdongand plus, I'd like shiny new gaim too, and prevu needs a few more test runs on .dsc files usecase07:04
jdongrm: cannot remove `debian/gaim-data/usr/share/sounds/gaim/Makefile.mingw': No such file or directory07:07
jdongbaw, I'm gonna murder someone07:07
plugwashjdong why?07:08
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jdongplugwash: wasted 10 minutes building? :D07:08
plugwashyeah, that can be a bitch with stuff like gaim07:09
jdongwell, at least it isn't openoffice, right? :D07:09
=== jdong fires off a 2nd build
jdongwhy do I feel like sneaking in a -j3 to speed things up a bit?07:10
plugwashwhat is -j3 ?07:10
jdongmake -j307:10
=== jdong running a dual-core
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plugwashdoes -j3 have any downsides?07:10
plugwashand if not why isn't it the default07:11
jdongplugwash: well, it tries to launch 3 jobs at the same time, dependencies allowing07:11
mr_pouitjdong: is it made automagically, or has it to be forced in pbuilderrc ?07:11
jdongso it's less efficient and more resource-intensive for no good reason on single-cores07:11
jdongmr_pouit: I haven't figured that part out, yet... I force it07:11
jdongplugwash: also, with poorly written makefiles, it can cause build failures07:12
mr_pouitjdong: last question ^^: how do you force it inside pbuilder ?07:24
palskiYagisan: thanks, it was reproducible on my edgy too07:31
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MrKeunerhi, I installed edgy on 26th of October, since then I got only 2 security updates. No other updates. is that normal?08:00
nixternalright now MrKeuner it is08:01
nixternalanywho, just realised this is #ubuntu-motu, tech support is in #ubuntu :)08:01
MrKeunernixternal: why is it normal for now?08:01
nixternalthis conversation is considered OT in this chan, I will chat with ya in #ubuntu08:02
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plugwashdoes ubuntu have any plans to use/reasons for not using diff based apt?08:12
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Simon80anybody on msn?08:33
Simon80maybe I'll send this to #ubuntu or something08:33
Simon80...well, I've already started talking.. so I'll finish:  try to send http://azureus.sourceforge.net/download.php in an IM to someone08:33
plugwashlemme guess you get a failed send?08:37
Simon80I've figured out that it's the download.php that is being blocked08:37
plugwashinteresting, i noticed messages getting blocked when i tried to post links to stuff on screwfix recently08:38
=== plugwash takes a look at a screwfix url
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Adri2000"An SDL game" < is that correct english? I think "An" should be "A"08:56
minghuawhy?  if SDL is pronounced "es-dee-el", then "an" is correct08:57
plugwashconventions seem to vary a little on that one, i always thought you wen't with how it was written when writing and how it was pronounced when speaking08:58
Adri2000I thought the a/an was about spelling and not pronunciation08:59
minghuaI would be surprised if the a/an use is about spelling instead of pronunciation09:00
Simon80me too09:01
Adri2000ok ok :p09:01
minghuaat least wikipedia confirms my belief: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%2C_an09:01
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giskardplugwash, ari packages/unstable * r7890 gaim/debian/changelog: Release gaim 1:2.0.0+beta5-110:38
giskardplugwash, i guess gaimbeta5 will hit unstable tomorrow10:38
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bhaledoes anyone want to help the guy in #u-d10:54
bhalebecause i dont10:54
bhalejump in any time10:54
plugwashgiskard that is a surprising turn of events, given that the release team said that the time for transitions before etch release is history11:00
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plugwashgiskard btw where did you get that info from?11:03
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giskardplugwash, form gnome-debian11:09
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plugwashgiskard url?11:11
giskard#gnome-debian on gimpnet11:11
plugwashgiskard hmm do bots post notifications in there or something?11:14
bhalehi giskard11:15
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