[12:11] <Fujitsu> Sp4rKy: If the changes are sane, it's probably acceptable.
[12:11] <Sp4rKy> k
[12:11] <Sp4rKy> thx Fujitsu :)
[12:12] <Lutin> Fujitsu: even if wa can't provide patches ?
[12:12] <Fujitsu> Lutin: wa?
[12:12] <Lutin> Fujitsu: we
[12:13] <Fujitsu> Why can't we provide patches? And what's that got to with the packaging?
[12:14] <Lutin> Fujitsu, if I'm pacakging something from cvs, to have clean source tarball, I need to run make distchekc, right ?
[12:14] <Fujitsu> Yes..
[12:15] <minghua> and hi Fujitsu
[12:15] <Fujitsu> Hi minghua.
[12:15] <Lutin> Fujitsu: and if we need to make changes on the makefile.am to have it passing make distcheck
[12:16] <Lutin> we can't provide patches for that, as it's not part of the deb build process
[12:17] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure exactly what the policy with CVS exports is, maybe somebody else can shed some light on it.
[12:17] <Adri2000> can I remove the "Depends" line in debian/control for a -data binary package?
[12:17] <crimsun> that would be silly.
[12:17] <Fujitsu> Adri2000: Why?
[12:18] <Fujitsu> (that was a no)
[12:18] <crimsun> what use is a foo-data package without its corresponding foo?
[12:18] <Adri2000> because it's like that in the xmoto package
[12:18] <crimsun> then xmoto should be fixed
[12:18] <Adri2000> crimsun: foo-data should depends on foo?
[12:18] <Adri2000> -s
[12:19] <crimsun> unless it's truly an independent foo-data, yes. Need to look at the specific context.
[12:19] <Adri2000> my -data package contains all the images needed by the program
[12:19] <mr_pouit> imo, Recommends would be enough :/
[12:20] <crimsun> so if someone installed your foo-data, what would they gain without foo?
[12:20] <crimsun> is foo-data usable without foo?
[12:20] <Adri2000> beautiful images :)
[12:20] <crimsun> and what is foo?
[12:20] <Adri2000> homebank
[12:21] <Adri2000> http://homebank.free.fr
[12:21] <crimsun> I'm not convinced foo-data would be value-add without foo
[12:22] <crimsun> but sure, you could demote it to a Recommends
[12:22] <minghua> crimsun: there is an argument about avoiding circular dependencies
[12:22] <crimsun> yes
[12:22] <crimsun> I was just going to cite that
[12:22] <minghua> (I assume foo depends on foo-data)
[12:22] <crimsun> cf. vlc and vlc-alsa
[12:23] <crimsun> you'd have foo Depend on foo-data but foo-data Recommend foo
[12:23] <mr_pouit> yes
[12:23] <minghua> and Enhance foo
[12:23] <minghua> we really should use Enhance more
[12:23] <Fujitsu> Enhance is a valid relation?
[12:23] <crimsun> yes
[12:23] <Fujitsu> Wow.
[12:23] <Fujitsu> I've not once seen that used.
[12:24] <crimsun> on the other hand, you also have to consider whether it really makes sense to break out the images into a separate package
[12:24] <Fujitsu> Isn't that somewhat like Suggests?
[12:24] <minghua> no, enhance is the other way
[12:24] <Adri2000> it seems really confused for the existing packages, some recommends, other depends
[12:24] <minghua> a suggests b usually means b should enhance a
[12:24] <Fujitsu> minghua: Oh, of course.
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Silly me.
[12:25] <Fujitsu> It hasn't updated in at least 4 days.
[12:25] <Adri2000> crimsun: the images/ directory is 1,8M
[12:25] <minghua> Adri2000: and how large is everything else?
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Isn't the limit 2.5M or so?
[12:26] <crimsun> pssht, limit. :-)
[12:26] <Adri2000> 3,3M    homebank-3.2/
[12:26] <Adri2000> 1,8M    homebank-3.2/images/
[12:26] <minghua> I won't split if I am the maintainer
[12:26] <Fujitsu> The limit for /usr/share in an architecture-specific package is 2.5MB, AFAIK.
[12:26] <Fujitsu> So you should be fine with just one package.
[12:27] <crimsun> I wouldn't split images simply because it doesn't make any sense
[12:27] <minghua> Fujitsu: I don't think there is a hard limit, just guidelines, I believe
[12:27] <Adri2000> just to have arch-indep separated from arch-dep
[12:30] <mr_pouit> I am not sure, but lintian complains upon a certain limit (if usr/share it too big in the package)
[12:33] <Adri2000> what about the ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} dependencies of -data?
[12:34] <minghua> by definition you shouldn't have ${shlibs:Depends} for arch independent packages
[12:39] <Adri2000> ok
[12:45] <Lutin> if I use tarball.mk to package something, do I have to make it build-depend on libbz2 ?
[12:46] <plugwash> i thought it was bzip2 you needed to depend on
[12:46] <Lutin> that's it
[12:46] <Lutin> thanks
[12:46] <plugwash> but only if you are using a bzipped tarball
[01:33] <Adri2000> reviewers needed: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3399 :)
[01:38] <ajmitch> Adri2000: homebank-data description is very unhelpful
[01:38] <tag> how can I get a list of which packages are currently installed ?
[01:38] <bddebian> dpkg -l
[01:38] <Adri2000> ajmitch: yeah, just noticed that, I'm re-uploading
[01:39] <ajmitch> apart from that, I haven't noticed anything wrong on a 30-second drive-by review
[01:39] <tag> sweet
[01:40] <Adri2000> ajmitch: "Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de" it doesn't want to re-upload :/
[01:41] <ajmitch> -f
[01:41] <Adri2000> ah yes, I forgot that
[01:42] <Adri2000> ajmitch: it's ok now
[01:44] <Adri2000> I think the description can be improved, any suggestion is welcome :p
[01:44] <Fujitsu> Adri2000: The description (both short and long) of homebank-data
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[01:45] <Fujitsu> It should mention it's the data package.
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Rather than being the same as homebank.
[01:45] <fbond> crimsun, ping?
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Oh, I see it's in the long description...
[01:46] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: yep, I looked at a few -data packages, seems there is no standard for that...
[01:47] <Fujitsu> Add ` - data files' to the end, or something like that.
[01:48] <Adri2000> ok
[01:53] <Fujitsu> Looks good, except for that, and two files missing copyright headers.
[01:54] <Fujitsu> (src/colormap.h and src/enums.h)
[02:01] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: I will re-upload tomorrow for the -data description and I will ask upstream about this two files
[02:01] <Adri2000> these*
[02:01] <Fujitsu> OK, it looks rather good so far.
[02:02] <Adri2000> :)
[02:20] <crimsun> fbond: pong
[02:30] <fbond> crimsun, interesting factoids I thought you might have an opinion on:
[02:31] <fbond> usbfs is getting mounted correctly on my edgy system with no changes to /etc/fstab
[02:31] <fbond> it is being mounted under /proc/bus/usb (I had been told it should be mounted under /dev/bus/usb ... ?)
[02:31] <fbond> it is mounted when the udev rules trigger the midisport firmware to be loaded
[02:32] <crimsun> good
[02:32] <crimsun> that's the correct thing
[02:32] <crimsun> I don't know if it will go away or stay
[02:33] <fbond> neat; I will still mention it to Scott
[02:33] <fbond> the other thing, and I'm not sure exactly what to make of this:
[02:33] <fbond> the firmware doesn't get loaded properly the first time udev is started, at boot time
[02:33] <fbond> I have to explicitly restart udev for it to do the right hting
[02:33] <fbond> s/hting/thing/
[02:33] <fbond> obviously some delay before the hardware is ready ... ?
[02:34] <crimsun> nope, that's the precise issue I'm talking about
[02:34] <crimsun> you don't need to restart udev
[02:34] <crimsun> you just need to unplug and replug the device
[02:35] <fbond> well, either will work...
[02:35] <crimsun> [after /dev/bus/usb is mounted] 
[02:35] <fbond>  /proc/bus/usb?
[02:35] <crimsun> the issue is that the fw loader isn't getting a correct reference because /dev/bus/usb isn't mounted
[02:36] <crimsun> /proc/bus/usb is deprecated
[02:36] <crimsun> you need to use /dev/bus/usb instead if you're going to use fstab(5)
[02:37] <crimsun> all supported ubuntu kernels (2.6.1[2579] ) do this properly with the fstab(5) syntax
[02:37] <crimsun> (err, well I suppose 2.6.19 isn't supported yet)
[02:37] <fbond> ok.  then /proc/bus/usb shouldn't be getting auto-mounted ... ?
[02:37] <crimsun> no, it's fine if it is
[02:37] <crimsun> it's likely legacy support, but you'll want to check w/ Scott
[02:37] <fbond> ok, but /dev/bus/usb needs to be mounted prior to udev being started?
[02:38] <fbond> is there some document that explains any of this stuff?
[02:38] <crimsun> no, either /proc/bus/usb or /dev/bus/usb (latter preferred) prior to the _firmware loader_ being executed
[02:38] <fbond> the firmware loader gets executed when udev starts if the device is plugged in at boot time
[02:39] <fbond> ( right ?)
[02:39] <crimsun> it's executed when the rule executes it
[02:39] <crimsun> SYSFS{idVendor}=="0763", SYSFS{idProduct}=="2806", \
[02:39] <crimsun>         RUN+="/usr/local/share/usb/maudio/madfuload -l -3 -f /usr/local/share/usb/maudio/ma006100.bin"
[02:39] <crimsun> that's my /etc/udev/rules.d/91_maudio_dfu.rules
[02:40] <crimsun> (well, not all of it)
[02:40] <fbond> but ... doesn't udev actually trigger that ?
[02:40] <fbond> kernel -> udev -> rule ?
[02:40] <crimsun> udev processes the kernel event; it doesn't trigger it
[02:40] <crimsun> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30920/  is the rule file
[02:41] <fbond> kernel events that happen prior to udev starting get processed by udev when udev starts ... right?
[02:41] <fbond> so, usbfs needs to be mounted prior to udev starting ?  what am I missing here?
[02:42] <crimsun> usbfs does not need to be mounted prior to udev starting
[02:42] <fbond> oh ... the event will trigger when usbfs is mounted?
[02:42] <fbond> if usbfs is not mounted when udev is started, when does the event trigger?
[02:42] <crimsun> no, when the plug event occurs
[02:42] <fbond> and if the device is plugged in prior to power up?
[02:42] <crimsun> so sometime after the driver for the usb controller is loaded
[02:43] <fbond> oh
[02:43] <fbond> I don't think the midisport devices work like that...
[02:43] <crimsun> they do
[02:43] <fbond> the driver doesn't recognize them until _after_ the firmware is loaded, I think....
[02:43] <crimsun> which "driver" are you referring to?
[02:43] <fbond> snd_usb_audio
[02:43] <crimsun> right
[02:44] <crimsun> before the firmware is uploaded, they're seen as holding devices
[02:44] <fbond> ok, we're stepping outside my realm of understanding...
[02:44] <crimsun> once the firmware is uploaded, the firmware loader will issue a bus reset
[02:44] <fbond> i see
[02:45] <fbond> so it's a simple usb-serial device that triggers the whole process ... ?
[02:45] <crimsun> there used to be a bug prior to 2.6.8.1
[02:45] <crimsun> yep
[02:45] <fbond> interesting
[02:45] <fbond> this I can understand
[02:45] <crimsun> a bug reset would freeze the machine
[02:45] <crimsun> s/bug/bus/
[02:45] <fbond> ew .... not good
[02:45] <fbond> I didn't start using my midisport with Ubuntu until after 2.6.12
[02:46] <crimsun> no. we used to have to boot into Windows, get the firmware loaded, then warm reboot into Linux
[02:46] <fbond> ug
[02:46] <crimsun> yes, fun for the entire family and then some
[02:46] <fbond> heheh
[02:47] <fbond> ok, so as long as /dev/bus/usb is mounted in /etc/fstab, everything will work out just dandy?  (I thought I tried that, but now I'm not so sure)...
[02:47] <crimsun> either /proc/bus/usb or /dev/bus/usb, yes
[02:47] <crimsun> the latter is preferred
[02:48] <fbond> terrific, I have an updated README.Debian that should work fine for now ...
[02:48] <fbond> although I hope for OOB support for /dev/bus/usb in feisty; will speak with Scott about this.
[02:51] <fbond> crimsun, one more thing:
[02:51] <fbond> as far as Scott is concerned, is the solution changing the default /etc/fstab ?
[02:52] <crimsun> fbond: unlikely, though I certainly can't (and won't) speak for him
[02:53] <fbond> ok, I will just see what he thinks...
[02:53] <fbond> thanks for your input
[02:53] <crimsun> np
[03:16] <crimsun> uhh
[03:17] <Hawkwind> crimsun: It's a message he sends to every channel he's in, slightly annoying IMO
[03:18] <crimsun> right, I got many, many of them
[03:19] <Mez> Hawkwind, actually - I dont know where the /ame came from - it was meant to go to a channel on another server
[03:19] <crimsun> it's ok, we're used to spam on this network ;-)
[05:14] <asabil> hi all
[05:18] <sladen> ello asabil
[05:23] <giskard> hello asabil
[05:23] <asabil> how are you ?
[05:44] <Simon80> if I package bleeding edge sources for something, where would be the most appropriate place to share that?
[05:44] <Simon80> that something being stepmania
[06:14] <superm1> Simon80, revu
[06:22] <Simon80> even though it's straight from latest cvs?
[06:22] <superm1> well from CVS no...
[06:22] <superm1> we should get a regular package in first
[06:22] <superm1> and then if there is a justifiable reason
[06:22] <superm1> for CVS
[06:22] <superm1> and its proven stable and such
[06:22] <Simon80> well, when I have time I can backport it, 3.9's not bad, the question would be copyright issues, what with it being a DDR clone
[06:22] <Simon80> I dunno
[06:22] <Simon80> not sure how that gets treated
[06:23] <superm1> well the app is GPL
[06:23] <Simon80> MIT, actually
[06:23] <superm1> oh it is
[06:23] <Simon80> yep, cept for libmad
[06:23] <superm1> i havent looked that cloesly
[06:23] <superm1> i was toying with packaging it myself for a bit
[06:23] <superm1> and got caught up with other things
[06:23] <Simon80> yeah, took me four evenings, haha
[06:23] <superm1> well scratch that off my todo list then :)
[06:24] <Simon80> cause it's my first, cause it takes a year to build, no free time, and um, need to make it homedir friendly
[06:24] <Simon80> mostly cause I was learning how to package though
[06:24] <Simon80> I can do rpm and ebuilds, but that was my first deb
[06:24] <superm1> well an acceptable solution for now can just be to make it writable by a user with in the "games" group
[06:24] <superm1> or something
[06:24] <Simon80> yeah
[06:25] <superm1> and then all people in the games group can write to /usr/lib/games/stepmania
[06:25] <superm1> or somethign
[06:25] <superm1> like that
[06:25] <lophyte> wait...
[06:25] <lophyte> stepmania is available for linux?
[06:25] <Simon80> hahaha
[06:25] <superm1> hehe
[06:25] <superm1> yup :)
[06:25] <lophyte> sweet!
[06:25] <superm1> long time no see lophyte
[06:25] <Simon80> http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/
[06:25] <lophyte> now all I need is a PS2->USB converter that works with Linux and I'm set
[06:25] <lophyte> indeed :)
[06:25] <lophyte> how's it going
[06:25] <Simon80> yeah, I got mine from lik-sang, you shouldn't have driver issues
[06:26] <superm1> been busy with myth stuff when i have free time
[06:26] <superm1> we have a team going now, but its taking off slowly
[06:26] <Simon80> anywho, if anyone wants to, it should be pretty easy to backport my changes
[06:26] <Simon80> only 2 code patches
[06:26] <superm1> what do you mean by changes?
[06:26] <superm1> what kind of stuff did you change
[06:27] <Simon80> err.. hard code dlopen path, a bunch of lines to look in home dir and /usr/share/games/stepmania for data
[06:27] <superm1> oh okay
[06:27] <Simon80> and then there's my rules file
[06:27] <Simon80> nothing huge
[06:27] <superm1> nothing major then
[06:27] <Simon80> no
[06:28] <superm1> this should be fairly compatible to 3.9 then
[06:28] <Simon80> the thing I did different from other distros is they add a line to "Mount" a folder in your home dir to "/" of stepmania's wierd filesystem abstraction, but I changed that to mounting subdirs , and mounting the /usr/share/games/stepmania dir to "/"
[06:29] <superm1> i can tell you though already, be sure to include a bit more about the MIT license in there and what distribution it allows
[06:29] <Simon80> eh?
[06:29] <superm1> the copyright file is fairly important
[06:29] <Simon80> well, I install it with the package, afaik
[06:29] <superm1> ah yes
[06:29] <superm1> Docs/Licenses.txt
[06:29] <superm1> well when this is submitted to revu, a motu may still not be satisfied with this
[06:30] <superm1> because the copyright file is supposed to be downloadable seperate from the package
[06:30] <Simon80> oh
[06:30] <superm1> to read exact details about the license its under
[06:30] <Simon80> hehe, see, I have things to learn
[06:30] <superm1> well i'm still learning too
[06:30] <Simon80> oh, I see, you mean like, docs/COPYRIGHT
[06:30] <superm1> just a virtuous teaching cycle
[06:31] <superm1> the other thing too - that i was holding off on packaging because is that the data and source are different archives for 3.9
[06:31] <superm1> so you will have to have two seperate archives
[06:31] <superm1> with seperate debian/rules
[06:31] <superm1> and seperate source packages
[06:31] <Simon80> well, I avoided that by checking out cvs sources and making one package
[06:31] <Simon80> you can do that with 3.9
[06:32] <Simon80> I dunno how to make multiple binary packages yet either, I can learn but I don't have enough time
[06:32] <superm1> that *should* be acceptable "rolls eyes"
[06:33] <superm1> if there are any MOTUs in the room that can speak up for this right now it'd be good
[06:33] <superm1> oh and something else too
[06:33] <superm1> the version number your using wouldnt be acceptable
[06:33] <Simon80> yeah, for cvs
[06:34] <superm1> well more so for the suffixes missing
[06:34] <Simon80> oh, ubuntu1?
[06:34] <superm1> it needs to be UPSTREAM-0ubuntu1
[06:34] <Simon80> how do you handle cvs versions?
[06:34] <superm1> the 0 constitutes that its not in debian and the ubuntu1 for the first ubuntu version
[06:34] <superm1> there was chatter about that a week or two ago, but i dont remember what the exact consensus was on it
[06:34] <Simon80> hehe
[06:34] <superm1> let me see if i still hvae that chat log
[06:35] <Simon80> well, I know about that, but this package wasn't just gonna get uploaded, I initially just wanted to share it so people can give me tips like this, and also to allow ubuntu users the chance to get stepmania running
[06:36] <Simon80> the reason I didn't do 3.9 is cause I selfishly wanted to try the cvs code out
[06:36] <superm1> well its important to get the version numbers right even on personal builds
[06:36] <superm1> so that if people use it and then it gets added to ubuntu later
[06:36] <superm1> they can "upgrade" still
[06:37] <Simon80> yeah, it's true.. but that's more about the upstream version
[06:37] <superm1> so say if you have a patch for a package that is at 3.0-1ubuntu3, you should name it 3.0-1ubuntu3unofficial1
[06:37] <superm1> yea
[06:38] <superm1> well the logs aren't on this machine, and i dont have access to my other machine where i'm at
[06:38] <superm1> can you think of a package that uses a CVS snapshot?
[06:38] <Simon80> ffmpeg
[06:38] <Simon80> but that's at 0.cvs..
[06:39] <Simon80> with an epoch of 3
[06:39] <superm1> i still dont personally understand the epoch thing....
[06:39] <superm1> or better yet how that works in the versioning scheme
[06:40] <Simon80> it's an override if you need to force upgrade even though the actual version "seems" lower to dpkg
[06:40] <Simon80> so if upstream changes ver scheme, you can still have it look like an upgrade
[06:40] <Simon80> any other use of it is frowned upon
[06:40] <superm1> so its kinda like a hack then to move up the scheme when you mess up the version to start :)
[06:41] <Simon80> well, not you, the upstream
[06:42] <superm1> well ttf-freefont
[06:42] <superm1> 20060601cvs-6
[06:42] <superm1> so the checkoutdate
[06:42] <superm1> cvs
[06:42] <superm1> and then regular revisioning
[06:42] <superm1> and there are plenty of packages that dont even add that cvs to it
[06:42] <Simon80> I'm thinking there's no standard, as long as users will get the upgrade when you switch to a release ver
[06:43] <superm1> yea thats what i'm gathering scrolling through synaptic too
[06:43] <superm1> i think there was just a personal MOTU preference that someone brought up then when this came up
[06:44] <superm1> do you know if this builds on amd64?
[06:45] <Simon80> uhhhhhhh... not off the top of my head
[06:45] <Simon80> I'll look at the ebuild for 3.9
[06:45] <superm1> mkay, just wondering since you used architecture any
[06:45] <superm1> and i've got an amd64 sitting at an appt
[06:46] <Simon80> oh, um... yeah, oops I guess?
[06:46] <Simon80> yeah, gentoo says ~x86 ~zmd64 ~ppc ;D
[06:46] <Simon80> amd*
[06:46] <superm1> okay cool then
[06:46] <superm1> thats great to hear
[06:47] <superm1> how stable is this checkout that you got?
[06:47] <superm1> stable enough for usage?
[06:47] <Simon80> stable enough to have fun :)
[06:47] <Simon80> but there is some prefs weirdness
[06:47] <superm1> hehe, but no crashes or what not right?
[06:47] <superm1> oh
[06:47] <Simon80> ummmm
[06:47] <Simon80> lol
[06:48] <Simon80> well, graphics crash which is I believe not stepmania's fault, I'm on r300
[06:48] <Simon80> ...err.. r200 too
[06:48] <Simon80> didn't bother to see if q3 crashes too.. on restart of context or whatever
[06:48] <Simon80> and the sound options seems to crash it
[06:48] <Simon80> but 3.9 was fine
[06:49] <Simon80> I did useit, just not debbed
[06:49] <superm1> well at this point, i'd really like to see this submitted as a package on revu.  if you do the checkout at 3.9
[06:49] <superm1> i can help you modify it to break into several packages
[06:49] <superm1> so that there would be a stepmania and stepmania-data
[06:49] <Simon80> yeah
[06:49] <Simon80> heh
[06:50] <Simon80> there's not really much data, but yeah, that makes sense, cause the binary is arch dependent
[06:50] <superm1> if you've got the time, i can walk you thru, if not, i'll grab your sources and go thru it myself in the next coming days
[06:50] <Simon80> well, I'll do it sometime, but if you're in a rush, better do it yourself, otherwise give me a week if that's ok
[06:50] <Simon80> not that I need a whole week, it's prolly a quick job
[06:51] <superm1> well i've got a few other things that i wanted to clean up packaging wise first
[06:51] <Simon80> if I can keep my home dir stuff... otherwise I'll do the home dir in the one line mount that gentoo uses
[06:51] <superm1> that i've got on my plate
[06:51] <Simon80> ok
[06:51] <superm1> are you on #ubuntu-motu often?
[06:51] <Simon80> first time
[06:51] <superm1> ah
[06:51] <Simon80> I'll keep coming on though
[06:51] <Simon80> already in dri-devel
[06:51] <Simon80> often
[06:51] <superm1> well seems you picked up pretty quickly on this for a first package
[06:52] <Simon80> yeah, I'm anti dirty-hack
[06:52] <superm1> me too
[06:52] <superm1> i despise people who make install source packages
[06:52] <Simon80> thanks though, good to hear confirmation that my perfectionism pays off
[06:52] <superm1> and dont at least have the decency to checkinstall
[06:52] <Simon80> haha
[06:52] <superm1> its just asking for trouble to spew binaries across a system in my opinion
[06:53] <Simon80> well, I dunno, checkinstall is a bit stiff, if it was MY system they aren't checkinstalling on, ok, not nice, but like, with modules, checkinstall fails
[06:53] <superm1> well with modules, you have module assistant
[06:53] <superm1> for some things
[06:53] <Simon80> ...oh
[06:53] <Simon80> yeah
[06:53] <superm1> like ivtv and lirc and such
[06:53] <Simon80> so it doesn't do everything
[06:53] <Simon80> cause.. qc-usb-messenger
[06:54] <superm1> yea doesnt do everything
[06:54] <superm1> needs a debian style module package installed in /usr/src to work correctly
[06:54] <superm1> but with the module packages in place, its a beaut
[06:55] <Simon80> mmhmm
[06:55] <Simon80> just haven't bothered to figure it out yet
[06:55] <Simon80> it's always a matter of time with me
[06:55] <superm1> okay, well catch back up with me in a few days (sometime mid week next week) and I can either help you through getting this broken up into a few packages or take over and finish it up /submit it to revu and such
[06:55] <Simon80> I only first tried out any linux at all aug 2005, lol
[06:56] <Simon80> that's me bragging about that, btw, though I wish I'd tried earlier
[06:56] <Simon80> :D
[06:56] <Simon80> alright
[06:56] <superm1> if not me, there are plenty of very smart MOTUs that frequent the channel at all hours (except the last 5 days with UDS)
[06:56] <Simon80> yeah
[06:56] <Simon80> ooh
[06:56] <Simon80> summit?
[06:56] <superm1> yea
[06:56] <superm1> thats why things have been dead so much this last week
[06:56] <superm1> around here
[06:57] <Simon80> ah, I wasn't in though
[06:57] <superm1> well even tonite
[06:57] <Simon80> but yeah, seemed dead just now
[06:57] <Simon80> yeah
[06:57] <superm1> okay well, off to bed with me.  catch ya on soon
[06:57] <Simon80> ok
[06:57] <Fujitsu> superm1: You said the dirty word up there... :P
[06:58] <superm1> hehe hey Fujitsu , you give Simon80 some advice with my departing?
[06:58] <Fujitsu> Sure, ask away, Simon80.
[06:58] <superm1> okay night then.
[06:58] <Fujitsu> (I even have some experience with StepMania, but not for a couple of years)
[06:59] <Simon80> eh, I don't really have anything to ask though, hehe, just need to work on it, unless you can say how best to version a cvs package
[06:59] <Simon80> the DMG is a bit lacking in that department, unless I just need to read more carefully
[07:06] <Fujitsu> I'd say [current-stables-version] +cvs.[date] -0ubuntu1 is the best bet.
[07:07] <Fujitsu> *stable
[07:07] <Simon80> hmm
[07:07] <Simon80> yeah, so that's > current but < next
[07:07] <Simon80> right?
[07:08] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[07:09] <Fujitsu> And for a release candidate, it'd be [version-this-is-an-RC-for] ~rcX-0ubuntu1, for example.
[07:09] <Simon80> .....is that cause ~ is less and + is more? this is all just a result of ascii comparison, right?
[07:10] <Simon80> yeah, I like it without dot too
[07:10] <Simon80> slightly
[07:10] <Fujitsu> Not quite ASCII comparison.
[07:10] <Fujitsu> Some of it is.
[07:10] <Fujitsu> But ~ is less than an empty string.
[07:10] <Fujitsu> So X~Y is less than plain X.
[07:10] <minghua> Simon80: read dpkg(1) man page and search for --compare-version
[07:11] <minghua> you don't really want to read the version number part of the policy... :-P
[07:11] <Simon80> yea, it doesn't even mention ~
[07:11] <Fujitsu> ~ is fairly new.
[07:12] <Simon80> oh... months new? weeks?
[07:12] <minghua> months new, in a sense
[07:12] <Fujitsu> Months.
[07:13] <Fujitsu> Although Debian's archive has supported it for just a few weeks, AFAIK.
[07:13] <Simon80> ah
[07:13] <Simon80> how do I use this command, ie. how to quickly fetch the return value?
[07:13] <Simon80> in bash
[07:14] <Simon80> might as well ask, you must know.. otherwise I'd be poring over man bash
[07:15] <minghua> Fujitsu: Debian's archive should have supported ~ for months
[07:16] <Fujitsu> I saw an email fairly recently saying it was now supported...
[07:16] <minghua> Simon80: you need "echo $?"
[07:16] <minghua> probably only 2-3 months
[07:16] <Simon80> haha, thanks
[07:16] <minghua> but I believe more than one month
[07:17] <Fujitsu> Oh, you're right.
[07:17] <Fujitsu> Mid-to-late August.
[07:18] <Simon80> well then, ~ is nice, I can say 4.0~cvs20061106
[07:19] <Fujitsu> Yep, that's what it's for.
[07:19] <Fujitsu> I wasn't sure if the next version was going to be 4.0, though, so I went along the safe path with 3.9+
[07:19] <Simon80> well, that's exactly what I would have wanted to use, but the DPM didn't mention it
[07:20] <Simon80> and yeah, it's definitely not just 3.9+
[07:20] <Simon80> has netplay, totally different theme, etc.
[07:20] <Simon80> and some bugs :)
[07:20] <Simon80> but it's 2 years later
[07:20] <Simon80> 3.9 is 2 years old now
[07:20] <Simon80> ..........I think?
[07:21] <Simon80> I'm prolly wrong there actually, I'm going by cvs file age
[07:21] <minghua> you want 3.9+cvs instead of 4.0~cvs
[07:22] <minghua> version number is just a meaningless number
[07:22] <Simon80> are you sure? it even goes so far as to call itself 4.0 CVS
[07:22] <Simon80> in game
[07:23] <Simon80> and yeah, the changelog for 3.9 is 13 mos old, sounds more correct than 2 years
[07:23] <minghua> well, if you are sure there will not be a 4.0 beta, then I don't mind either way
[07:23] <Simon80> oh, lol, cause of the cvs thing?
[07:23] <Simon80> hmm
[07:24] <Simon80> one could always go cvs314159+beta
[07:24] <Simon80> see, now gentoo handles this stuff
[07:24] <Simon80> they standardize on a few suffixes, I think pre, beta, rc
[07:24] <Simon80> and r for after release
[07:35] <Simon80> so how do I transfer to different upstream sources, is the best practice to just get the alt sources and copy debian/ into them?
[07:36] <Fujitsu> Change into the current Debian package directory, and run `uupdate /path/to/new/tarball'
[07:37] <Simon80> really? I thought that might have even been a stupid question
[07:37] <Fujitsu> Yep, it's that easy.
[07:38] <minghua> Fujitsu: is there a guide about playing with this multi-distribution-tool thing?
[07:38] <Fujitsu> minghua: Not really, just work it out yourself, basically.
[07:38] <minghua> Fujitsu: Hmm.  what is the bzr repo then?
[07:39] <Fujitsu> There's a basic example on the MultiDistroTools page on the wiki, but it doesn't do much.
[07:39] <Fujitsu> (and the bzr repo is there too)
[07:40] <minghua> okay, thanks Fujitsu
[07:40] <minghua> BTW feisty is open for upload, right?
[07:40] <Fujitsu> LaserJock has a branch with my patch at http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/multidistrotools/
[07:41] <Fujitsu> It's been open for many a day.
[07:41] <Fujitsu> I've done most of my merges.
[07:42] <zakame> hi all
[07:42] <zakame> merges are open now? :)
[07:42] <Fujitsu> zakame: Yep.
[07:42] <zakame> w00tness
[07:43] <Fujitsu> I finally get to excercise my upload rights without a freeze in effect!
[07:43] <zakame> rocking
[07:43] <Fujitsu> *exercise
[07:44] <minghua> Fujitsu: yes I've seen a bunch of mails from you on feisty-changes
[07:44] <zakame> merges list in the usual place?
[07:44] <Fujitsu> zakame: Yep.
[07:44] <Fujitsu> minghua: Yes, and more coming soon, hopefully.
[07:44] <minghua> BTW anybody care/able to change the channel topic, then?
[07:44] <zakame> Fujitsu: cool, let me help out:)
[07:45] <Fujitsu> minghua: Anybody can change it.
[07:45] <zakame> erm, copy also copied the return :/
[07:46] <Fujitsu> Hm.
[07:46] <minghua> the UVF link can go too IMO
[07:46] <Fujitsu> Yes, exactyl.
[07:46] <Simon80> so is there a policy reason why <dist>-updates seems to never have meaty upstream updates in it?
[07:47] <Fujitsu> Simon80: Stable releases don't get new upstream versions.
[07:47] <zakame> well there's a next release, right? :)
[07:47] <Fujitsu> (unless absolutely necessary)
[07:47] <Simon80> ..yeah, thought so
[07:47] <Simon80> just wasn't sure if that applied to uni
[07:48] <Fujitsu> Universe updates were even less common than main ones until a week or so back.
[07:48] <Simon80> but I think you tend to be overly conservative.. I mean, network manager in dapper was sort of broken
[07:48] <Fujitsu> Because we had no policy.
[07:48] <Simon80> but now I'm kind of digressing
[07:48] <Simon80> that's not even MOTU
[07:49] <Simon80> and possibly not even to do with not taking upstream updates
[07:49] <Fujitsu> #ubuntu-motu is all about digression. There's rarely much on-topic chatter :P
[07:49] <minghua> for less conservative place there is always -backports
[07:50] <Simon80> that's true
[07:50] <Simon80> but again, seems to be low traffic
[07:50] <Fujitsu> -cue jarring chord-
[07:50] <minghua> but I appreciate tending to err on the side of caution
[07:50] <Simon80> oh, some good advice I can ask for, I've never figured out whether there's an easier way to gather build-deps than to try to compile on a naked install, or pore through the configure.ca
[07:50] <minghua> (is that correct English by the way?)
[07:50] <Simon80> ac*
[07:50] <Fujitsu> Dapper /is/ supported for 5 years, remember.
[07:50] <Simon80> lol
[07:50] <Fujitsu> minghua: That English is fine.
[07:51] <Simon80> on the server, only
[07:51] <Fujitsu> And 3 for desktop.
[07:51] <Simon80> not sure how they can say a certain package is server or not
[07:51] <Fujitsu> Simon80: They've got 2.5 years to decide, I guess.
[07:51] <Simon80> ah, pbuilder seems to do what I'm thinking
[07:51] <Simon80> naked chroot
[07:51] <Simon80> wasn't sure
[07:53] <minghua> LOL at the "2.5 years to decide"
[07:53] <Simon80> I love packaging.. I mean, compared to windows, it sucks that upstream doesn't always provide even source packages, but at the same time, linux package management kicks the crap out of running some dude's unsigned setup.exe just to get yourself some free screensavers... *shudder*
[07:53] <Simon80> free as in spyware
[07:54] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[07:54] <Simon80> not that I don't totally despise windows, lol, growing up with it was enough to do that
[07:55] <Fujitsu> Evening, Burgundavia.
[07:55] <Simon80> once I tried ubuntu, I realized it was possible for me to at least transition some of my stuff away from windows... within a few months I was barely booting windows, but I still had some unsratched itches
[07:56] <Simon80> other than WPA, that's pretty much dealt with by now
[07:56] <Simon80> oh.. and dri
[07:56] <Simon80> sucking
[07:56] <Burgundavia> hey Fujitsu
[07:56] <Simon80> I'l stop talking OT now :)
[07:56] <Fujitsu> Simon80: What graphics chipset?
[07:57] <Simon80> r300
[07:57] <Simon80> M10
[07:57] <Simon80> I want it to be better
[07:57] <Simon80> I'm tired of fglrx like I'm tired of windows
[07:57] <Fujitsu> fglrx really does suck, I know.
[07:57] <Simon80> I tried the latest ver just to grab a reg value, and it locks up consistently on X exit
[07:58] <Simon80> never had a release of that that didn't have some logout bug
[07:58] <zakame> still great for d games though :D
[07:58] <Simon80>  d games?
[07:58] <Simon80> I have an i810 that I briefly test drove with quake3, so I realize yeah, intel is a better choice for that
[07:59] <Simon80> if that was any indication as to support for their newer sets
[08:00] <zakame> right
[08:01] <Simon80> lol
[08:01] <Simon80> well, when I got my lappy, I didn't know or care about these issues
[08:02] <Burgundavia> what about those rumours of ATI releasing specs?
[08:02] <Simon80> I'm hardcore now though, one could consult me on hardware purchasing, I think
[08:02] <Simon80> I'm waiting for that
[08:02] <minghua> yeah, maybe "made sure not to chose extra ATI graphic card" is more close to the truth :-P
[08:02] <Simon80> I mean, compatibility wise
[08:03] <Simon80> ...I'm not all that knowledgeable about it actually, wireless wise, I can say whether a chipset has a driver, but I don't know which ones will work with NM and WPA
[08:03] <Simon80> that'd be nice to know
[08:04] <Simon80> ....I do have WPA working on my 770 though :D
[08:04] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Which rumours?
[08:04] <Simon80> amd buyout...
[08:05] <minghua> now only if I can manage to install edgy on my desktop
[08:05] <Simon80> As for open driver support, Cherry says that things have gotten better in the last year, particularly with improved support for wireless devices and better support for video cards. He also says that "we have confirmation" that ATI is moving towards opening up its capabilities for video drivers since the company's acquisition by AMD.
[08:05] <Simon80> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/10/11/1355201
[08:05] <Simon80> I'd say that's more than a rumour
[08:05] <Simon80> just a matter of waiting for their big post merge press release
[08:06] <Fujitsu> That'll be nice...
[08:06] <Simon80> but either way, specs aren't enough, and also, the other thing I heard was a "functional subset"
[08:06] <Simon80> so.. yeah, till my M10 is as fast or faster on linux than on windows, I'm not happy
[08:06] <Fujitsu> Specs are enough, though they're not ideal.
[08:06] <Burgundavia> specs might lead to official support
[08:06] <Burgundavia> did you see Keiths notes?
[08:06] <zakame> hmm anyone else here encountered resume failures after hibernate?
[08:07] <Fujitsu> If they open their specs/drivers, they can expect pretty much every Linuxer to move to them.
[08:07] <Burgundavia> zakame: rock solid
[08:07] <Fujitsu> zakame: I can't hibernate, due to my encrypted everything.
[08:07] <Burgundavia> except that Nvidia is being agressive at tracking X changes now
[08:07] <Simon80> lol
[08:07] <Simon80> yeah, nvidia is pretty good with the closed source I gather
[08:07] <zakame> Burgundavia: I take that as OK right? :)
[08:08] <Simon80> but not enough to be as good as windows in the last, admittedly not recent, benches I've seen
[08:08] <Burgundavia> zakame: I have seen resume failures
[08:08] <Simon80> I think that's a year ago now though, kind of irrelevant
[08:08] <Burgundavia> zakame: no resume failures, rather
[08:09] <zakame> waah :(
[08:09] <Simon80> btw, for wireless, I recommend motorola's wr850G, great product so far
[08:09] <Simon80> router/ap
[08:10] <Fujitsu> I recommend an appropriately configured Dapper box with a lot of NICs.
[08:10] <Simon80> not doing much with it though, it's being used as a wired/wireless AP
[08:10] <zakame> well my kubuntu here doesn't resume properly, kernel (or is it initrd) can just seem to see the image on swap upon resume
[08:10] <Simon80> and lol @ Fujitsu, I'm sure that'd cost more than 32CAD
[08:11] <Fujitsu> I had a spare box sitting around, I needed to move services off the family computer.
[08:11] <Simon80> and I dunno which NICs have drivers that can do master mode well
[08:11] <Simon80> come to think of it, I'd make a pretty bad consultant on wireless hardware..
[08:11] <Simon80> and linux
[08:12] <Fujitsu> It's got Dapper installed, runs 4 NICs (wireless LAN, internet, wired LAN, and an extra LAN one 'cause the switch is too small), does Apache, DHCP, DNS, MySQL, mail, internal file sharing, and more!
[08:12] <Fujitsu> All for the grand price of nothing.
[08:13] <Simon80> how nothing? I don't see my local staples selling these wonderboxen for free
[08:14] <Burgundavia> Simon80: I don't see you in #ubuntu-ca
[08:14] <Simon80> hmm.. should I be?
[08:14] <Burgundavia> yes. Otherwise my goon squad will come after you
[08:14] <Simon80> lol
[08:15] <Simon80> lol
[08:15] <zakame> bring it on
[08:16] <Simon80> oh god, shaw cable... I guess it can't be that bad, but we had a bad roger's connection for a while, used to be shaw before that switchup
[08:16] <Simon80> ..just commenting on your ISP
[08:16] <Burgundavia> shaw is better than telus
[08:16] <Simon80> I wouldn't really know
[08:16] <Simon80> but I switched to Bell, way faster, lower latency too
[08:16] <Burgundavia> nothing but Telus and Shaw out here
[08:16] <Simon80> yeah, rogers/bell here
[08:17] <Simon80> you must be out west?
[08:17] <Simon80> or east, I dunno
[08:17] <Simon80> lol
[08:17] <Simon80> not gonna go look it up
[08:17] <Simon80> the areas that shaw does, I mean
[08:17] <Burgundavia> victoria, bc
[08:17] <Simon80> yeah
[08:17] <Simon80> see? west.. lol
[08:21] <Fujitsu> Simon80: The box and WAP were obsolete at school, so I grabbed 'em.
[08:21] <Simon80> ah
[08:21] <Simon80> lol, there's this one box at work today, would turn right back on if the OS powered it off
[08:21] <Simon80> hard shutoff worked though
[08:21] <Fujitsu> Nice.
[08:21] <Simon80> yeah, it's like, desktop -> server, lol
[08:22] <Simon80> it's high-availability... even if you don't want it to be
[08:32] <minghua> bedtime for me
[08:32] <minghua> bye everyone
[08:32] <Simon80> bye
[08:32] <Simon80> I should sleep
[08:33] <Simon80> I'll put up a properly versioned stepmania package tomorrow.. stepmania-3.9 sometime to follow
[08:33] <Fujitsu> Bye, Simon80.
[08:34] <Simon80> bye
[08:55] <nixternal> hehe
[08:55] <Simon80> you can find it on REVU
[08:55] <Simon80> lol
[08:55] <nixternal> Burgundavia: i see what you are stirring
[08:56] <Burgundavia> lets see what that stirs up
[08:57] <nixternal> it is true though
[08:57] <Burgundavia> nixternal: do you have my direct rss or something?
[08:57] <nixternal> no, i had an idea of where you might be stirring
[08:57] <nixternal> but i have you bookmarked
[08:57] <Burgundavia> hint: binary
[08:57] <nixternal> hehe
[08:57] <Simon80> ?
[08:58] <nixternal> look towards the planet
[08:58] <Burgundavia> that bright shining light is me
[08:58] <nixternal> haha
[09:00] <nixternal> ah well, bed time for me
[09:00] <nixternal> g'nite
[09:00] <Simon80> omg, they're shipping binary shit in feisty?
[09:01] <Simon80> err.. stirring*
[09:01] <poningru> nixternal: nn
[09:01] <Simon80> night
[09:03] <poningru> I dont see it
[09:03] <poningru> nm
[09:03] <Fujitsu> It's not on Planet yet.
[09:03] <robitaille> http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/
[09:03] <Simon80> yeah, seriously, I agree completely, and would rather not compromise those ideals for the sake of that stuff working by default
[09:03] <Fujitsu> But Burgundavia's blog posts are always rather good, so I subscribe to that feed :)
[09:04] <robitaille> and  planet finally picked it up just now
[09:05] <Simon80> well, damn right, I like the example too
[09:14] <TheMuso> Burgundavia: Agree 100%
[09:15] <Burgundavia> TheMuso: sad reality is that compiz/beryl do offer some cool accessibility things
[09:16] <TheMuso> Why is that a sad reality?
[09:16] <Burgundavia> because for it to truly work, we do need good 3d drivers
[09:16] <TheMuso> Right.
[09:16] <Simon80> ok, so, rephrased, the sad reality is that the open source drivers are woefully inadequate
[09:17] <Burgundavia> and those ATI/AMD specs are not going to make Feisty, I bet
[09:17] <Simon80> you never know, they have till feb
[09:17] <Simon80> but like, they'd need more than specs by then
[09:18] <Burgundavia> and in that time they need to release the specs and then write the drivers
[09:18] <TheMuso> Intel really should make their video chipsets dedicated cards.
[09:18] <Simon80> cause like, at least one dev has some for of nda info
[09:18] <Simon80> hasn't miraculously made things better
[09:18] <TheMuso> I don't care if intel doesn't perform as well as ATI/NVIDIA, as I don't need the card to be powerful enough for games etc.
[09:19] <TheMuso> I'd gladly install Intel cards in any new machine I build.
[09:19] <Burgundavia> I am glad I have an intel card in this laptop
[09:19] <Burgundavia> my desktop machine, with its ATI, is almost never on these days
[09:21] <Simon80> hehe
[09:21] <Simon80> well, mine is, but with r300 only
[09:22] <Burgundavia> my 9600 could probably do r300, but I haven't bothered, since I am on it about once every two or three weeks
[09:23] <Simon80> yeah
[09:23] <TheMuso> So if the 3945 chipset is getting free firmware, what about ipw2{1,2}00 cards?
[09:23] <Simon80> I have an M10
[09:23] <Simon80> .......aka mobility 9600
[09:26] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: A good question...
[09:27] <TheMuso> I'm glad that the only machine I have that needs binary blobs is my notebook.
[09:27] <Hobbsee_> hey TheMuso, Fujitsu
[09:27] <Fujitsu> Morning Hobbsee_.
[09:28] <TheMuso> But as it is, just about all new notebooks running Linux today need a binary blob of some sort to be fully usable.
 So if the 3945 chipset is getting free firmware, what about ipw2{1,2}00 cards?
[09:28] <Simon80> err.. this is OT and somewhat nosy, but are there two sarah hobbs'?
[09:28] <Hobbsee> gah, it did connect.  wonder what was said
[09:28] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[09:28] <Burgundavia> morning Hobbsee
[09:28] <Simon80> Sarah Hobbs*
[09:28] <Hobbsee> Simon80: nope, only one.  my client didnt connect in properly.  why?
[09:28] <Fujitsu> Sarah Hobbses, you mean? :P
[09:28] <Simon80> sure
[09:28] <Hobbsee> Simon80: i think there's only one sarah to do with ubuntu, actually
[09:28] <Fujitsu> Or Sarahs Hobbs?
[09:28] <Hobbsee> :P
[09:28] <Simon80> yeah, I mean in meatspace
[09:28] <Simon80> ......err, actually, the opposite, I mean on google ;)
[09:29] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: the 3945 is getting free firmware?  that's why mine was recognised out of the box?  way cool!
[09:29] <Hobbsee> Simon80: most of the hobbsee's on google are me, and i'm none of the sarah hobbs' on there
[09:29] <Hobbsee> unless they're specifically to do with ubuntu or something
[09:29] <Simon80> lol, the artist
[09:29] <TheMuso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverEducation
[09:29] <TheMuso> has it mentioned down the page a bit.
[09:29] <Simon80> oh man, it's not drawing, oh no
[09:30] <Hobbsee> sorry, photography
[09:30] <zakame> yo Hobbsee
[09:30] <Simon80> no need to apologise, I'm just amused by a shelf full of similar plants being exhibited
[09:31] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: in the case of that, i'm of the opinion that if my wifi card works OOTB, i'm happy.  i dont really care if its' free or not free.  if it uses ndiswrapper, then that's good, but that's still a pain - and that's what i view as more troublesome.
[09:31] <Hobbsee> Simon80: :)
[09:32] <Fujitsu> My Launchpad page is on the 3rd page for "william grant"
[09:32] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: If I have no choice, I will use hardware with binary blob drivers, however I prefer to use completely free and open driver code.
[09:32] <Simon80> sorry, lol, I google people a lot, it's a bit nosy, I'd say
[09:32] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: true
[09:32] <Hobbsee> Simon80: it's fine.  i'm very careful what i put online anyway
[09:32] <Burgundavia> clearly all you need two things 1) less common names 2) more google juice
[09:32] <TheMuso> Other software, such as software synthesizers however, are a different story./
[09:33] <Burgundavia> I am nearly every hit for Corey Burger
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Gah, stupid evil search results like `The boundary of Sir William Alexander's grant was therefore to be...'
[09:33] <Simon80> err.. found your age
[09:33] <Simon80> Hobbsee: ^
[09:33] <Simon80> I suppose that's no biggie
[09:33] <Hobbsee> Simon80: what is it?
[09:33] <TheMuso> Put Luke Yelavich in, and I can pretty much assure you that at least the first couple of pages are hits to do with archives etc that I have been involved with over the last three and a bit years.
[09:34] <Simon80> Hobbsee: 18?
[09:34] <Hobbsee> Simon80: wow, so that is there
[09:34] <Simon80> oh, you didn't intentionally publish? lol
[09:34] <Hobbsee> well, i say various bits in these channels
[09:34] <Simon80> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=35199
[09:34] <Hobbsee> ohhhh...right
[09:35] <Simon80> geez, I wish I was using linux when I was 18
[09:35] <Hobbsee> speaking of which, i want to see 915resolution be integrated into main and the installer
[09:35] <Hobbsee> (not having looked at the code)
[09:35] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Do you have a new laptop now?
[09:35] <joejaxx> Hello All
[09:35] <Hobbsee> because it's the only thing that gets my laptop working at correct resolution - and it works every time
[09:35] <TheMuso> Sounds like it
[09:35] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: yep :)
[09:35] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Cool!
[09:35] <crimsun> (I think you want the modesetting branch of i810 merged instead)
[09:35] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: only 3 things dont working out of the box
[09:35] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Cool.
[09:36] <Burgundavia> I was going to point that out as well
[09:36] <Hobbsee> crimsun: quite possibly.  whatever lets me use 1280x800 natively
[09:36] <Hobbsee> crimsun: nothing in edgy, apart from the 915resolution does
[09:36] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: you want the modesetting branch
[09:36] <crimsun> xserver-xorg-video-intel in universe does.
[09:36] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: right
[09:36] <Hobbsee> crimsun: i didnt find that helped?  not sure
[09:37] <crimsun> it worked for me, but it has significant bugs on VT switch that can either lock the machine or spur a restart of the X server
[09:37] <Fujitsu> crimsun: I don't think that got the right resolution for me either...
[09:38] <Fujitsu> 915resolution works for now :)
[09:38] <crimsun> xserver-xorg-video-intel in edgy/universe is 1.6.0; Debian Sid's xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting is a git snapshot from Oct 14th that fixes many of those issue
[09:38] <Simon80> holy crap: https://launchpad.net/people/hobbsee/+packages
[09:38] <Simon80> lol
[09:38] <Simon80> that is all
[09:38] <Hobbsee> Simon80: hahaha
[09:38] <Hobbsee> most of them were when i was *not* a MOTU
[09:39] <Simon80> what do you mean?
[09:39] <Hobbsee> Simon80: ie, when i still had to get other people to upload them
[09:39] <Simon80> as in this list is largely incomplete?
[09:40] <crimsun> fbond: as of feisty's 2.6.19-5.7, because there's no matching udev yet, the event handling seems a bit odd. I have to restart udev as you mentioned.
[09:41] <Hobbsee> Simon80: no, the list is incomplete
[09:41] <Hobbsee> Simon80: i was more saying "most of those i had to get other people to upload for me"
[09:41] <Hobbsee> Simon80: oh, and that list doesnt include all the syncs that i've requested, either
[09:41] <Simon80> hobbsee: "the list is incomplete" - you mean complete?
[09:41] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: In most cases it does include syncs.
[09:42] <Hobbsee> Simon80: sorry, yeah
[09:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: really?  i didnt think so
[09:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i thought taht just got attributed to the syncer
[09:42] <Fujitsu> It gets attributed to you, except when the archive admin puts in in the wrong name.
[09:42] <Fujitsu> (which generally only happens for sponsorships)
[09:42] <Simon80> what do you mean by sync?
[09:43] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: For example:
[09:43] <Fujitsu> libqalculate   Ubuntu Edgy   0.9.4-5
[09:43] <Fujitsu> Simon80: Import a package from Debian Sid without changes.
[09:43] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahh, okay
[09:43] <Simon80> ah
[09:44] <Fujitsu> Only 209 Edgy uploads, Hobbsee. Not good enough.
[09:44] <Hobbsee> haha
[09:44] <Simon80> lol
[09:44] <Hobbsee> yeah, and fewer feisty ones
[09:44] <Hobbsee> (holy strike - that many?)
[09:44] <Fujitsu> 50 Dapper ones...
[09:44] <Fujitsu> 4 Feisty...
[09:44] <Simon80> I'm very age competitive, this sort of thing bugs me a tiny bit
[09:44] <Simon80> I see it and go dammit! outdone again!
[09:44] <Simon80> lol
[09:45] <Simon80> ...cause I'm 20, see
[09:45] <Fujitsu> Ah, but I'm 15 :P
[09:45] <Simon80> hahaha
[09:45] <Burgundavia> you young whippersnappers
[09:45] <Simon80> oh, oh no, you're serious?
[09:45] <Burgundavia> us old farts are nearly in our wheelchairs
[09:45] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: do you use any non-source packages?
[09:45] <Fujitsu> Simon80: Yep.
[09:45] <Simon80> dammit!
[09:45] <joejaxx> Simon80: ! :D
[09:45] <Fujitsu> I've got 1 Breezy, 2 Dapper, 130 Edgy, 10 Feisty.
[09:46] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: madwifi
[09:46] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh.  that's because i've looked at the merges and gone "i dont wan tto think about that yet"
[09:46] <Simon80> how long have you two been at this sort of thing?
[09:46] <Fujitsu> I've been at it since early July.
[09:46] <Simon80> and you're already packaging?
[09:46] <Simon80> both of you?
[09:46] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: My Breezy upload was a security update a couple of months back.
[09:47] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[09:47] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: there is a fundamental difference between madwifi and the ati/nvidia drivers. First of all, madwifi already has Atheros involvement. 2nd, it is truly needed
[09:47] <Simon80> I really should have gotten into this earlier, I did ebuilds first, and it seems impossible to get a new ebuild into their tree
[09:47] <TheMuso> I've been doing stuff on and off for about 4-6 months packaging wise anyway
[09:47] <Fujitsu> Simon80: I was approved as a MOTU a couple of months ago, so yes.
[09:47] <TheMuso> I have been helping with other stuff in general for a lot longr.
[09:47] <TheMuso> longer
[09:47] <Simon80> ohh, you only got into packaging in early july? not linux related stuff in general?
[09:48] <Simon80> cause I was more wondering how long you've been using *nix
[09:48] <Hobbsee> since about july 05
[09:48] <Simon80> aug 05 here
[09:48] <TheMuso> Been using Linux since January 01 here.
[09:49] <crimsun> august 06 :-)
[09:49] <Simon80> lol
[09:49] <Simon80> nice
[09:49] <Hobbsee> crimsun: rubbish
[09:49] <crimsun> shh.
[09:49] <Simon80> well, I only made my first deb package this week :(
[09:49] <Hobbsee> :P
[09:49] <Simon80> it's for 1106 cvs source of stepmania
[09:49] <Fujitsu> I'm February '01, or thereabouts.
[09:49] <TheMuso> crimsun: Thats rubbish and you know it.
[09:49] <crimsun> shh.
[09:49] <Simon80> any ddr geeks may want to check it out
[09:50] <Fujitsu> @lart crimsun
[09:50] <ubuntu-es> Fujitsu: Error: "lart" is not a valid command.
[09:50] <TheMuso> hahahahaha
[09:50] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: i just do not see the difference between those two non-source packages
[09:51] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: my blog post is primarily about companies joining the open source movement, rather than just non-source packages
[09:52] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: oh ok
[09:52] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: Atheros is already actively working on their Linux driver. Not shipping it really doesn't tell them anything
[09:53] <Burgundavia> not shipping the ati/nvidia drivers has been a fairly clear message to ati and nvidia
[09:53] <TheMuso> Burgundavia: I like the fact that the madwifi binary blob will be gone in the future
[09:53] <Burgundavia> TheMuso: the free ath stuff?
[09:53] <Burgundavia> I am skeptical about it
[09:53] <TheMuso> Burgundavia: yeah
[09:55] <TheMuso> One thing that worries me, is that companies who see others release GPL drivers, but binary firmware, will be encouraged to do the same thing, with the argument that they are making drivers available etc.
[09:55] <Burgundavia> joejaxx: wireless drivers are a completely different kettle of fish, due to the fact that companies such as Intel, who has clearly shown they are a friend of open source, still have binary firmware
[09:56] <TheMuso> Burgundavia: But they aren't really a friend of open source if they make binary firmware.
[09:56] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: yeah i guess
[09:56] <TheMuso> Thats the way I see it anyway.
[09:57] <TheMuso> Especially if they are taming up with the likes of MS to put in TPM modules in future gens of CPUs and mobo chipsets etc.
[09:57] <Burgundavia> tpm is dead
[09:57] <Burgundavia> it has failed in teh marketplace, which is where it needs to fail
[09:57] <TheMuso> Any official data/web site to show that?
[09:58] <Burgundavia> nobody is using it, even the new Vista and OS X
[09:58] <TheMuso> Right.
[09:58] <Burgundavia> if there was a place I expected to see it, it was Vista
[09:58] <TheMuso> Yet will it still be a part of future computer hardware?
[09:58] <Burgundavia> apple has already talked about removing it from their future computers
[09:58] <TheMuso> If so, MS could easily turn around a release updates that forces vista to use it.
[09:59] <TheMuso> Wow.
[09:59] <Burgundavia> they could
[09:59] <Burgundavia> but if nobody is using it, then it becomes something that can be removed to save money
[09:59] <TheMuso> True.
[09:59] <TheMuso> Well its good that it has failed then.
[09:59] <Burgundavia> and when your margins as small as a hardware manufacturers are, even cents matter
[09:59] <TheMuso> BUt how is it already known as a failure?
[10:00] <Burgundavia> because it has been in existance for almost 5 years with absolutely no interest
[10:00] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[10:00] <Burgundavia> ie: the entire development time of Vista
[10:00] <Fujitsu> TPM is used in Vista.
[10:00] <TheMuso> I think some new notebooks come with it already.
[10:00] <Fujitsu> BitLocker requires it.
[10:01] <TheMuso> I vaguely remember seeing something about a security chip in my notebook's BIOS.
[10:01] <Simon80> boo
[10:01] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: not on mine, that i kjnow of :)
[10:02] <Simon80> not on my 2 yo m6811 either
[10:02] <Burgundavia> right, but bitlocker is how a tpm chip is supposed to be used
[10:02] <Simon80> unless cpu serial counts
[10:02] <Burgundavia> for end user encryption
[10:02] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: True.
[10:02] <Simon80> err... that's bad
[10:02] <Simon80> get it useful for that
[10:02] <Simon80> and then... once people NEED the tpms
[10:02] <Simon80> you can fill in the rest
[10:02] <Burgundavia> there are similar tools for OS X
[10:03] <Burgundavia> OS X has clearly rejected the TPM. Linux will never have it
[10:03] <Burgundavia> I am not worried
[10:03] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: and bitlocker doesn't require tpm
[10:04] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Last time I saw a screenshot (about a week ago), it did.
[10:04] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitLocker_Drive_Encryption
[10:04] <Burgundavia> depends what you do with it
[10:04] <Fujitsu> You know what would be nice to have in the near future? A nice GUI for setting up encrypted partitions in Ubuntu. Having usplash with a nice password/USB-drive prompt would be nice and shiny
[10:05] <Burgundavia> better to do it in GDM, but ya
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Encrypted root shouldn't be excluded as a use-case.
[10:05] <Burgundavia> Fedora did some inital work to push GDM further down the chain, to replace their usplash equiv
[10:06] <crimsun> fwiw, feisty's current uswsusp prompts the user on dist-upgrade whether (s)he wants to enable an enciphered partition
[10:06] <TheMuso> I personally think any drive encryption is dangerous. The tech may be proven, but then there is the problem of data integrity, passwords/passphrases etc.
[10:06] <Burgundavia> with upstart, that becomes more feasible
[10:06] <crimsun> if yes is chosen, the user enters a passphrase
[10:06] <Simon80> Fujitsu: I agree totally, but it's a question of how much work is involved thinking through the UI and implementing
[10:07] <Simon80> got any DDR geeks in the crowd today?
[10:07] <Simon80> .....for the reason I mentioned above
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Simon80: I haven't played it in a couple of years, but I used to be able to do 9 or 10 feet in StepMania.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> I have a friend who plays it constantly, though :P
[10:09] <Simon80> ah
[10:09] <Simon80> yeah, 9-10 feet is pretty crazy
[10:09] <Simon80> I'm at 5-7
[10:09] <Fujitsu> Crazy? It's EASY!
[10:09] <Simon80> lol
[10:09] <Simon80> :P
[10:09] <Fujitsu> Have you uploaded those packages anywhere?
[10:09] <Simon80> yeah, nobody asked
[10:09] <Simon80> I even linked prolly
[10:10] <Simon80> http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/
[10:10] <Simon80> there goes my real name
[10:10] <Simon80> boom
[10:10] <Fujitsu> :O
[10:10] <Simon80> in exchange for people seeing my meagre web page
[10:10] <Simon80> which I use to waste time reading news, hehe
[10:11] <Fujitsu> `Stepmania Debian package' gives a 404.
[10:11] <Simon80> ah, I nuked my .htaccess, sorry
[10:11] <Simon80> :)
[10:12] <Simon80> one min
[10:13] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Did you follow any howto for encrypting everything?
[10:13] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: No.
[10:13] <Fujitsu> cryptsetup isn't hard to work out.
[10:13] <TheMuso> So did you have to set the partitions up with a live CD before you installed?
[10:14] <Simon80> fujitsu
[10:14] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[10:14] <Simon80> .htaccess uploaded
[10:14] <Simon80> if you added deb http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/ ./ it would have worked anyhow.. but that's definitely no excuse
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Heheh, thanks.
[10:15] <Simon80> lets see if I can change versions through my little repo-ish thing
[10:16] <Simon80> hrm, apparently 20061106 is newer than 4.0~cvs20061106?
[10:17] <Simon80> makes sense I guess, 4 < 20061106
[10:17] <Simon80> new and improved over the other 20061105 versions of stepmania
[10:29] <Simon80> ok, I'm actually going to bed now, this is insane
[10:30] <Simon80> my fault, but like, during the week, I get up ~2.5 hours from now
[10:30] <Simon80> my fault for staying up I mean
[10:31] <Fujitsu> 'night.
[10:32] <crimsun> some of these bugs are ridiculous (e.g., 71330)
[10:32] <Fujitsu> bug #71330
[10:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71330 in Ubuntu "Just installed latest NVIDIA driver NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9629-pkg1.run" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71330
[10:32] <Fujitsu> Hahaha
[10:35] <TheMuso> haha
[10:35] <zakame> smoking-crack tag
[10:36] <zakame> for borken translations its smoking-pot
[10:36] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[10:38] <Sp4rKy> hi mr_pouit
[10:38] <mr_pouit> hi Sp4rKy
[11:40] <Hobbsee> hmmm...everyone left
[11:41] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: They do that.
[11:41] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :(
[11:41] <Fujitsu> D:
[11:42] <Fujitsu> Stupid timezones.
[11:42] <TheMuso> Can't do much about timezones.
[11:42] <Fujitsu> Sure we can.
[11:42] <Fujitsu> Obliterate them.
[11:42] <Fujitsu> UTC for all.
[11:42] <TheMuso> heh
[11:44] <Hobbsee> indeed!
[11:44] <Hobbsee> who cares if it's bright sunshine at 3am?
[11:44] <Hobbsee> and pitch black at 2pm?
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Who cares!
[11:44] <Fujitsu> It'd make things interesting!
[11:44] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:44] <Hobbsee> of course, there would then be no such thing as jetlag
[11:45] <Fujitsu> Which would be convenient.
[11:46] <Fujitsu> Imagine IRC, though... You'd have a set time where EVERYBODY was asleep.
[11:55] <geser> is it ok to depend on xlibmesa-gl-dev or should this be changed to libgl1-mesa-dev?
[11:57] <Hobbsee> geser: should be changed
[11:57] <Hobbsee> geser: but if that's the only thing stopping a sync, i'd probably just sync it
[11:58] <geser> thanks, that would explain the last comment on bug 71267
[11:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71267 in guichan "[Merge]  guichan 0.4.0-4.1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71267
[12:06] <Hobbsee> geser: yes, i'd say so
[01:36] <zakame> finally found a solution to my hibernate bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/69208
[01:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69208 in Ubuntu "Bug #42299 survives on upgrade from Dapper Drake to Edgy" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[01:47] <chantra> hi there , is there any motu around
[01:48] <Hobbsee> chantra: what for?
[01:49] <zakame> for what?
[01:52] <chantra> Hobbsee: cause i uploaded a package to revu
[01:53] <chantra> but actually, the package is too much in an alpha state
[01:53] <Hobbsee> chantra: what's the package name?  i can remove it if you want
[01:53] <chantra> and has no point in being uploaded
[01:53] <chantra> mysql-workbench
[01:53] <chantra> Hobbsee:
[01:53] <chantra> cheers
[01:54] <Hobbsee> chantra: gone
[01:54] <chantra> :)
[02:04] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: here?
[02:10] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: in the changelog of transcalc (0.14-0ubuntu1): "Change dependencies to libgtk2.0-dev and libglib2.0-dev" but:
[02:10] <Adri2000> apt-cache depends libgtk2.0-dev | grep libglib2.0-dev
[02:10] <Adri2000>   Depends: libglib2.0-dev
[02:14] <sladen> zakame: could you add your comments to that bug please
[02:30] <zakame> sladen: #69208?
[02:30] <zakame> just did a while ago
[02:31] <zakame> although in my case, there already was an /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume file, containing just `RESUME='
[02:43] <Fujitsu> Adri2000: I'm back now... They were like that in the old version, I just changed the versions... It's not caused any harm.
[02:43] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: ok, just noticing it :)
[02:44] <Fujitsu> That new version has been out for 3 years, and the maintainer still hasn't updated the Debian package :(
[02:45] <Adri2000> whoaw 3 years!
[02:46] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[02:47] <Fujitsu> And another bug in that package has been open for 20 or so days short of 5 years...
[02:48] <zakame> in need of serious RFA i think
[02:49] <Fujitsu> Or an NMU. It's so obscure, I don't think anybody would adopt it.
[02:50] <zakame> right, nmu
[02:51] <zakame> or a removal, if popcon's low
[02:51] <zakame> brb
[02:51] <Fujitsu> We have at least one user in Ubuntu; a bug was filed which prompted me to update it.
[02:53] <Fujitsu> 10598 in Debian popcon
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Goodnight, everybody!
[02:55] <Adri2000> good night Fujitsu, tomorrow see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3401 ;)
[02:55] <Fujitsu> I shall, Adri2000.
[02:59] <rpedro> hi, does someone know how to get good debug info from HAL, or at least how to restart it without a reboot
[03:01] <rpedro> it's this bug I reported a while ago : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/68574
[03:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68574 in hal "Issue with (mostly) fat32 devices, and HAL fails to even initialize after new login" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[04:36] <Yagisan> palski, bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rats/+bug/63561 updated. happy hunting.
[04:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63561 in rats "Segmentation fault when auditing code" [Undecided,Needs info] 
[04:36] <kiko-zzz> what's rats, Yagisan?
[04:37] <Yagisan> kiko-zzz, its supposted to audit software for obvious secrity bugs
[04:37] <kiko-zzz> ah, I see
[04:37] <Yagisan> it just dies on some code I run it on
[04:38] <Lutin> Hello
[04:38] <ajmitch> morning
[04:38] <Lutin> afternoon :)
[04:38] <ajmitch> kiko-zzz: I won't have time to look & fix your bug before I get back, sorry :)
[04:38] <kiko-zzz> ajmitch, bah! ok. :)
[04:39] <Lutin> what's the policy about packaging programs coming from cvs ?
[04:40] <ajmitch> hey Yagisan
[04:40] <Yagisan> hey mate. I'm sick as a dog, so I'm deleting^W reading my email
[04:40] <ajmitch> ouch
[04:46] <zakame> awww
[04:47] <Lutin> no clue ?
[04:48] <zakame> Lutin: on a per-package basis, iirc; we have REVU
[04:49] <zakame> although its more desireable iirc to backport patches from cvs
[04:51] <Lutin> zakame: I mean, is there a policy on packaging _new_ programs coming from cvs
[04:52] <zakame> I don't think there's a formal policy atm; new packages do need to be REVu-ed though
[04:53] <Lutin> such as 'you can remove the 'CVS' dirs as you want', or 'you need to run make distcheck to have a clean source tarball'
[04:54] <zakame> well you definitely want to remove the CVS dirs as that would break debian-policy (lintain will warn you)
[04:54] <zakame> that is, you'd want a cvs export, not a cvs chekcout
[04:54] <zakame> *checkout
[05:00] <Lutin> zakame, ok
[05:18] <bddebian> Heya gang
[05:19] <ajmitch> hi
[05:19] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[05:19] <zakame> hi bddebian
[05:19] <bddebian> Hello zakame
[05:55] <minghua> Huh, triage is not an English word but a French one
[06:06] <jdong> why does wxwidgets2.6 use gtk1 instead of gtk2?
[06:08] <jdong> wait
[06:08] <jdong> it doesn't
[06:27] <luisbg> jdong, Bug 70658
[06:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70658 in audacity "depends on wxgtk2.4" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70658
[06:45] <jdong> quick versioning question...
[06:46] <jdong> if I were to, say, make a gaim beta5 package for impatient waiters, how should I version it so that debian sid packages would override it when made?
[06:47] <jdong>       gaim | 1:2.0.0+beta4-4 |      unstable | source, i386
[06:47] <minghua> 1:2.0.0+beta5~-1?
[06:47] <minghua> (assuming debian maintainer keeps his version scheme)
[06:48] <jdong> minghua: ok. Is there a set convention for these kinds of things?
[06:48] <minghua> jdong: not in debian
[06:48] <minghua> as only maintainer is supposed to know all the uploads except NMU
[06:48] <minghua> s/only//
[06:48] <jdong> ok
[06:49] <imbrandon> whast the dissid current version
[06:49] <minghua> for NMU version numbers there is a policy, of course
[06:49] <jdong> imbrandon: 1:2.0.0+beta4-4
[06:51] <plugwash> jdong for a custom package i would use 1:2.0.0+beta5-0yourname1
[06:51] <minghua> actually, since I am talking about NMU now
[06:51] <jdong> would ~0yourname1 work too?
[06:52] <minghua> I believe the correct version number for a new upstream NMU is 1:2.0.0+beta5-0.1
[06:52] <plugwash> jdong probablly but there is no real need to use ~ here since official debian packages generally start at -1
[06:53] <jdong> ok
[06:53] <plugwash> and its highly unlikely that gaim will get a new upstream version uploaded by anyone other than its co-maintainer
[06:53] <plugwash> (its maintainer seems to have dissapeared)
[06:54] <jdong> ok
[06:54] <jdong> s/packages/patches
[06:55] <jdong> btw, anyone know why pbuilder in edgy is so much slower than dapper?
[06:55] <jdong> in satisfy-depends?
[06:55] <giskard> plugwash, who is the real maintainer?
[06:55] <jdong> it quite literally is 10x slower
[06:57] <plugwash> giskard well according to p.q.d.o the maintainer is robert mcqueen and co-mainter is ari pollak
[06:59] <plugwash> but ari seems to be doing virtually all the maintaining (roberts last changelog entry is from last april)
[06:59] <giskard> plugwash, i guess robot101 is busy with other things, and ari is doing a great work on gaim.
[06:59] <giskard> plugwash, indeed.
[07:04] <jdong> plugwash: heh, well, forumers are starting to whip out their checkinstall already, so I thought I'd offer them the lesser of two evils
[07:04] <jdong> and plus, I'd like shiny new gaim too, and prevu needs a few more test runs on .dsc files usecase
[07:07] <jdong> rm: cannot remove `debian/gaim-data/usr/share/sounds/gaim/Makefile.mingw': No such file or directory
[07:07] <jdong> baw, I'm gonna murder someone
[07:08] <plugwash> jdong why?
[07:08] <jdong> plugwash: wasted 10 minutes building? :D
[07:09] <plugwash> yeah, that can be a bitch with stuff like gaim
[07:09] <jdong> well, at least it isn't openoffice, right? :D
[07:10] <jdong> why do I feel like sneaking in a -j3 to speed things up a bit?
[07:10] <plugwash> what is -j3 ?
[07:10] <jdong> make -j3
[07:10] <plugwash> does -j3 have any downsides?
[07:11] <plugwash> and if not why isn't it the default
[07:11] <jdong> plugwash: well, it tries to launch 3 jobs at the same time, dependencies allowing
[07:11] <mr_pouit> jdong: is it made automagically, or has it to be forced in pbuilderrc ?
[07:11] <jdong> so it's less efficient and more resource-intensive for no good reason on single-cores
[07:11] <jdong> mr_pouit: I haven't figured that part out, yet... I force it
[07:11] <mr_pouit> ok
[07:12] <jdong> plugwash: also, with poorly written makefiles, it can cause build failures
[07:24] <mr_pouit> jdong: last question ^^: how do you force it inside pbuilder ?
[07:31] <palski> Yagisan: thanks, it was reproducible on my edgy too
[08:00] <MrKeuner> hi, I installed edgy on 26th of October, since then I got only 2 security updates. No other updates. is that normal?
[08:01] <nixternal> right now MrKeuner it is
[08:01] <nixternal> anywho, just realised this is #ubuntu-motu, tech support is in #ubuntu :)
[08:01] <MrKeuner> nixternal: why is it normal for now?
[08:02] <Simon80> lol
[08:02] <nixternal> this conversation is considered OT in this chan, I will chat with ya in #ubuntu
[08:12] <plugwash> does ubuntu have any plans to use/reasons for not using diff based apt?
[08:33] <Simon80> anybody on msn?
[08:33] <Simon80> maybe I'll send this to #ubuntu or something
[08:33] <Simon80> ...well, I've already started talking.. so I'll finish:  try to send http://azureus.sourceforge.net/download.php in an IM to someone
[08:37] <plugwash> lemme guess you get a failed send?
[08:37] <Simon80> yeah
[08:37] <Simon80> I've figured out that it's the download.php that is being blocked
[08:38] <plugwash> interesting, i noticed messages getting blocked when i tried to post links to stuff on screwfix recently
[08:38] <Simon80> yeah
[08:56] <Adri2000> "An SDL game" < is that correct english? I think "An" should be "A"
[08:57] <minghua> why?  if SDL is pronounced "es-dee-el", then "an" is correct
[08:58] <plugwash> conventions seem to vary a little on that one, i always thought you wen't with how it was written when writing and how it was pronounced when speaking
[08:59] <Adri2000> I thought the a/an was about spelling and not pronunciation
[09:00] <minghua> I would be surprised if the a/an use is about spelling instead of pronunciation
[09:01] <Simon80> yeah
[09:01] <Simon80> me too
[09:01] <Adri2000> ok ok :p
[09:01] <minghua> at least wikipedia confirms my belief: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%2C_an
[09:01] <minghua> :-)
[10:38] <giskard> plugwash, ari packages/unstable * r7890 gaim/debian/changelog: Release gaim 1:2.0.0+beta5-1
[10:38] <giskard> plugwash, i guess gaimbeta5 will hit unstable tomorrow
[10:54] <bhale> does anyone want to help the guy in #u-d
[10:54] <bhale> because i dont
[10:54] <bhale> jump in any time
[11:00] <plugwash> giskard that is a surprising turn of events, given that the release team said that the time for transitions before etch release is history
[11:03] <plugwash> giskard btw where did you get that info from?
[11:09] <giskard> plugwash, form gnome-debian
[11:11] <plugwash> giskard url?
[11:11] <giskard> #gnome-debian on gimpnet
[11:14] <plugwash> giskard hmm do bots post notifications in there or something?
[11:15] <bhale> hi giskard