=== Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pygi [n=mario@83-131-22-134.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:38] morning Fujitsu :) [12:39] Hi Adri2000. I'll look at the package in a minute, currently looking through the night's science bugs. [12:39] ok === superm1 is now known as superm1_away === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pygi [n=mario@83-131-22-134.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:20] anyone got any idea when stuff will start moving from sid into feisty? === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:23] plugwash: It's been happening since the 9th or so. [01:23] The buildds have caught up, except for sparc and ia64. [01:24] hey Fujitsu [01:24] Hi minghua. === Fujitsu notes the list of science SRU-possibilities is getting infuriatingly large. [01:25] Fujitsu: If I want something in the science debian-vs-ubuntu list changes, should I ask you or LaserJock? [01:26] Either, I guess... What do you want done? [01:31] Oh. Just to add Debian's non-free there. Or remove ubuntu's multiverse. Now some of the "in Ubuntu but not in Debian" entries are just bogus, the eagle package, for example. [01:34] I've added non-free, we'll see what that does to the package lists... [01:35] Fujitsu: I just realized that LaserJock's list has eagle there, while yours doesn't [01:35] not sure if LaserJock already had non-free or something [01:35] Mine had eagle in that not-in-Sid list until 30 seconds ago. [01:36] yes, and LaserJock's has eagle in outdated-in-ubuntu [01:36] As does mine now :) [01:36] So it was my problem :( [01:36] all good :-) [01:37] so one change drops the length of not-in-ubuntu list from 24 to 9, not bad, huh? :-P [01:37] 79 packages with local changes... Although I've requested a sync for one or two. [01:37] Yep. [01:38] not-in-sid* BTW [01:38] chemicalmime should be removed, it's been replaced in Debian. [01:38] is auto-sync supposed to be turned on in the near future? [01:39] It's already on. [01:39] Has been for 3 days. [01:39] Hence the small list of outdated packaegs. [01:39] oh I see [01:40] when you said sync you meant "discard ubuntu change and sync" [01:40] Ah, yes. === janm [n=jmalonzo@29.182.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ash211 [n=andrew@user-1121dnc.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === CheekyBoinc [n=fox@p50922685.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ash211_ [n=andrew@user-1121dnc.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:55] minghua: There are three packages on that list which seem to have vanished from Debian without a trace... They're not mentioned in the removal logs, their p.q.d.o pages don't exist... [01:56] Fujitsu: what are those? [01:56] there are traces, just hard to find :-) [01:56] chemicalmime, koctave, mascyma [01:58] Hmm, AFAICS none of the three has been removed from Debian [01:58] (according to http://ftp-master.debian.or/kg/removals.txt) [01:58] But none of them exist either. [01:59] so renaming is the more likely cause [01:59] (that's the list I looked at for removals) [01:59] How do we track that? [01:59] compared with disappearing without a trace, I mean [01:59] not that I know of, unfortunately [01:59] Grrreat. === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:59] Presumably they will be in the same section, however. [02:00] So I'll create lists of packages in Sid in the appropriate sections. [02:00] And hopefully locate new/renamed packages. [02:01] heh [02:02] Fujitsu: those three are source package names, right? [02:03] minghua: Righht. [02:03] *Right [02:04] Fujitsu: Hmm. My previous analysis is wrong. Renamed source packages shows up in the removal log [02:04] OK, so they /have/ completely vanished. [02:04] I am not going to admit that unless you present evidence that they existed before ;-) [02:05] They have Debian revision numbers... [02:07] do they have distribution=unstable in debian/changelog, too? [02:07] Yes. [02:08] (but if the uploader screwed up version number, he is likely to screw up the distribution as well) [02:08] Quite possibly... [02:08] so, uhm, I am not taking that as a hard evidence [02:09] snapshot.debian.net says that none of them have ever existed... So somebody screwed up the version number and distribution. [02:10] But, a lot of times for each of them. [02:11] go hunt the uploader(s) :-P [02:11] I can't easily tell who signed the uploads, though, so I'm not sure who to shoot... [02:11] Ah! whatever-changes will tell em. [02:11] *me [02:12] another possibility is we imported from some third-party repo with inappropriate versioning scheme [02:12] That's probable. [02:12] or, the package kept old unofficial changelog entries [02:13] For chemicalmime: [02:13] Creator: Ubuntu Archive Auto-Sync [02:13] Doesn't that imply it was autosynced from Debian? [02:13] it's hard for me to believe we have uploaders who screwed up version number and distribution multiple times [02:13] I don't think so [02:14] what does the -changes mail say about the packages we sync from debian-multimedia? [02:14] That's a good question... I'll check. [02:15] For myththemes (from debian-multimedia): [02:15] Creator: William Grant [02:15] hah - blame Fujitsu! [02:15] :P [02:16] maybe the pre-soyuz era generate different -changes mails? [02:16] The only way they will be attributed to Ubuntu Archive AutoSync is if it actually requests it automatically, or if the archive admin attributes it to it... I don't find either possibility likely in these cases... [02:16] Argh. [02:17] You know why it's listed as being autosynced? [02:17] It was autosynced from pre-Soyuz. === Fujitsu bashes head on desk. [02:17] is MoM running? [02:18] bhale: It never stopped. [02:18] Fujitsu: is The Sync running? [02:18] minghua: All the initial versions of packages in LP are attributed to the autosyncer. How deranged. [02:18] bhale: Yep, since the 9th. [02:18] Fujitsu: rock [02:18] -changes-auto has nothing [02:18] ia64 and sparc are yet to catch up, however. [02:19] Chances are they're in the moderation queue. [02:19] (like stuff to -changes was for several days) [02:19] Fujitsu: never trust the attribution of LP, I thought you already knew that :-P === Fujitsu searches out the original upload email. === _jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-68-38-202-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:24] bhale: ubuntu-changes-auto has had no posts since May... I don't think it's actually used any more. [02:25] or is it just not archived? [02:26] That's a possibility. [02:26] I've noticed that feisty-changes doesn't seem to pick up any of my uploads, but that's extremely minor. [02:27] Looking at Fujitsu's struggle makes me appreciate archaeologist's work more :-P === lionelp [n=lionel@ip-61.net-82-216-103.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:27] crimsun: They seem to have really stuffed up the moderation stuff this time around. [02:30] None of those three packages are mentioned in warty-, hoary-, or breezy-changes. [02:31] That's impossible, of course. === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rpedro [n=rpedro@87-196-75-219.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua wonders how crimsun made a mail with only CC: header but no To: header (the one to ubuntu-motu replying mine) [02:35] Fujitsu: must be from pre-warty era! :-P [02:35] minghua: I deleted the To: header in -thunderbird [02:35] I don't know whose fault that is, tbh. I probably should have fiddled with the drop-down [02:36] and your mail client is okay with that? [02:36] ctrl+backspace + backspace, send [02:36] I think mutt won't let me do that [02:36] apparently -thunderbird was happy to do so [02:36] right, I never was able to do that with mutt [02:37] This is CRAZY. [02:37] Fujitsu: have you checked the signature of the .dsc file? [02:40] minghua: It's signed by somebody whe isn't a member of ubuntu{,-core}-dev. It's the signature on the .changes which is important, AFAIK. [02:41] I've never heard of this person before... [02:41] Fujitsu: okay. [02:41] I don't really know how dak/soyuz works [02:41] And the only package mentioned in any -changes is chemicalmime, and that's in ubuntu-changes-auto... [02:41] The other packages have appeared from somewhere without any emails being generated. [02:42] but at least in debian all .dsc files should have the sponsor's signature [02:42] because they are supposed to build binary packages themselves [02:43] Well, apparently not in Ubuntu. [02:43] and to be honest, I consider keeping source packages without an uploader's signature in archive a problem that should be fixed [02:44] What I really don't get is that none of the original uploads appear to have generated emails... [02:44] what about asking on ubuntu-motu/ubuntu-devel? [02:45] or maybe asking in #ubuntu-devel first [02:45] you really need someone who knows how things used to work in the old days [02:46] Yeah... [02:46] I suppose it's possible that syncs from an external repository didn't generate emails in the pre-Soyuz days. [02:49] any portugese speakers about? === CarlFK [n=carl@c-24-13-53-221.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:58] Burgundavia, yes [02:58] Burgundavia, how can I help? [02:58] nictuku: go something I think is spam [02:59] "Prezado Colega, graas a um membro do grupo que me emprestou seu PC de reserva," [02:59] hmm if it's a spam, it's not obvious [03:00] Fujitsu: don't forget homebank :) [03:00] Adri2000: I haven't forgotten it. There is still that license. issue to be sorted out. [03:00] s/license\./license/ [03:00] Dear Colleage, thanks to a member of the group who lended me his backup PC, " [03:01] interesting [03:01] Fujitsu: ok, but I already mailed upstream 10 days ago to say that I was going to package homebank for ubuntu, and no response yet :/ [03:02] Well, you'll just have to wait. [03:03] yep, waiting [03:04] motu group on LP is such a strange place... Fujitsu is one of the only three non-administrator member in this 40-people team [03:04] Adri2000: interesting, given his plea for packagers on the main site [03:04] minghua: People stopped being added a while back, but I got added, but not adminned... It's a strange group. [03:06] Fujitsu: yes I heard that's a kind-of-non-functional group, but still a bit hilarious to see a 37-3 admin/non-admin ratio [03:06] reminds me some jokes about Chinese bureaucracy [03:06] Hahah. === Subhuman [n=jack@host86-142-54-172.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jsgotangco [n=greatwhi@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-motu === luisbg [n=d33p@87.217.147.106] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mat__ [n=mat@82.247.157.187] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sevrin [n=sevrin@202.75.186.154] has joined #ubuntu-motu === reggaemanu_ [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-109-104.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Subhuman [n=jack@host86-142-54-172.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu === imbrandon pokes the room [05:00] wakeup peeps [05:00] hello [05:01] imbrandon! [05:01] heya LaserJock [05:01] joejaxx! [05:01] hello :D [05:01] just got home ( well kinda , waiting at the airport for my ride ) [05:01] heya joejaxx [05:02] joejaxx: if you dont mind i would like to see that script when/if you get it working oin the next days [05:02] imbrandon: How was UDS? [05:02] Hi imbrandon. [05:02] StevenK: it rocked, we got a ton done, and still had a ton to do too [05:03] heya Fujitsu [05:03] imbrandon: ok [05:03] plus i got pictures of jono dancing with a beer bottle for randsom :) [05:03] StevenK: ^^ [05:03] imbrandon: lol [05:03] Hah === imbrandon wonders where his ride is, should be here about now [05:05] imbrandon: Find them on IRC and yell? :-P [05:06] lol [05:06] i called them 30 minutes ago and they said "on their way" [05:07] soooo shouldent be much longer, i'll just be glad to be HOME and not on my laptop all week, even though google rocked, i realy need to blog tonight about it [05:07] i'll do that once i get home from the airport [05:08] prepare for UberUbuCon too ( shhh i dident say anything /yet/ ) [05:08] StevenK: ^^ [05:09] Heh [05:09] UberUbuCon? [05:10] I thought Ubucon was uber enough :/ [05:10] ;-) [05:10] imbrandon: did they have ubuntu t-shirts at the end of UDS? [05:10] what /was/ UbuCon but bigger, canonical reprentation , diffrent location , lots of new stuff, it will be solidified soonish [05:10] LaserJock: no [05:11] LaserJock: just dinner where everyone got thrashed [05:11] mdz and Jane Silber hand delivered my ubuntu t-shirt at Ubucon so :p [05:11] i got some kubuntu t-shirts [05:11] but not ubuntu ones [05:11] and some edgy pressed cd's [05:11] who want's kubuntu t-shirts ;-) [05:11] ahh [05:11] I had hoped for some CDs [05:12] but didn't get around to asking Claire [05:12] i /think/ melissa grabbed what was left of the ubuntu edgy ones and i dunno about the kubuntu ones [05:12] you might ask her to send you a few, i only grabbed one of each flavor [05:13] yeah, I grabbed one of each in Paris [05:13] and then left then at my wife's cousins place [05:13] Ahh, excellent. I can hit up Melissa for i386 and amd64 Edgy CDs. [05:13] hehe [05:13] the good news is he's now running Ubuntu on his laptop [05:14] so I guess it was worth it [05:14] StevenK: yea from what i seen she had the remaning edubuntu and ubuntu ones === minghua burned both ubuntu and kubuntu desktop CDs, and very disappointed to find out ubiquity doesn't deal with LVM at all [05:14] nope [05:14] that burned me too === Amaranth yawns [05:14] with dapper [05:14] damn timezones :P [05:14] oh whatever [05:15] minghua: yea thats only for the alternate ( and i beleave it says so on the download page ) === minghua go reads the download page [05:15] it does [05:15] (but it really should be in release notes) === lophyte [n=dsulliva@bas5-toronto63-1096729364.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:16] minghua: why , you download something without reading what version best suits you ? heh [05:16] well, with all the buzz around having a graphical installer [05:16] LaserJock: we should be getting arm buildd's too soonish , that was talked about after you left [05:16] it's sort of natural to think it'd work [05:16] for the ipod/nokia770 and other things [05:16] I see [05:17] and i think most of the ppa-restricted and system76 stuff all got worked out too === Spec [n=dragonco@ubuntu/member/spec] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:17] I think somebody should send me a nokia770 to test on :-) [05:18] hehe [05:18] imbrandon: did you talk to the System76 guys? === joejaxx is living on the edgy running feisty [05:18] there was like 50 at the confrence ( and the nokia developers too , they are the ones buying the arm buildd's ) [05:18] LaserJock: yea , for like 2 days in a row [05:18] edge* [05:18] imbrandon: excellent, what was the result of that? [05:19] hmm, anybody can point it to me where the LVM issue is written? doesn't seem to be on http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu/download [05:19] (sorry for asking a support question :-P) [05:19] LaserJock: they are gonna sponsor a few systems too, they worked out with elmo about getting them to the DC [05:19] minghua: it's on the actual download pages [05:19] imbrandon: what type? [05:20] minghua: its not an "issue" its simply that its not supported on the desktop cd, and its on the download cd [05:20] err download page, not that [05:20] LaserJock: the url I posted have link to isos [05:20] page you pointed too [05:20] oh freaky, that's changed [05:20] heya imbrandon [05:20] heya lifeless [05:21] lifeless: let me get home ( about 45 minutes ) and i'll up you [05:21] imbrandon: no rush dude. [05:21] (thanks though!) [05:21] imbrandon: I just can't see it [05:21] lifeless: hehe yea, just wanted to let you know i hadent forgot :) [05:21] the dapper pages have them [05:21] LaserJock: now we are talking... [05:21] the edgy links need to say it [05:23] it just says: "alternative installation methods for OEM computers and computers with less than 192MB RAM" [05:23] for the edgy links [05:23] look at the download page for edgy http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.10/ , plainly listed in the alternate cd section [05:23] but www.ubuntu.com is wrong, or at least incomplete [05:24] LaserJock: file a bug [05:24] maybe imcomplete [05:24] mdke or myself will fix it, eventually [05:24] Burgundavia: yeah, was just thinking about that [05:24] heya Burgundavia [05:25] ok guys, see ya in a bit, my ride is here [05:26] hey imbrandon [05:26] catch yall in a few [05:27] http://thismight.be/offensive/2006/11/02/index.php?id=50 [05:27] $RANDOM_LINK [05:28] worksafe ? [05:28] lifeless: yes [05:29] lifeless: yes, but some of the other ones may not be [05:29] (if everybody gets the same link) [05:29] yes they do [05:29] tmbo does have NSFW pictures, so be warned === Spec [n=dragonco@ubuntu/member/spec] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:30] and I never really understood that comic [05:30] it's quoted everywhere, but nobody bothered to explain it :-( [05:30] wow the synaptic pad in feisty just failed [05:31] keyboard shortcuts ftw [05:31] :D [05:31] looks like it is edgy reinstall time [05:32] bbl [05:33] minghua: bug filed [05:33] LaserJock: subscribe me please? :-) [05:33] bug #71444 [05:33] Malone bug 71444 in ubuntu-website "download page needs more info for Edgy alternate cds" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/71444 [05:33] thanks === minghua go subscribe himself === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:38] minghua: are there any other reasons? [05:40] Burgundavia: according to http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.10/ there are also "creating pre-configured OEM systems" and "setting up automated deployments", but I am not sure you want to put them there [05:40] I think I do [05:40] but IMO two sets of download instructions are just very confusing [05:41] yes [05:42] and http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu/download really overwhelmed me with it's mile-long list of mirrors [05:42] I can edit the website, but cjwatson needs to edit the releases.u.c stuff [05:42] and we need an auto mirror chooser [05:43] we need a single "download" palce === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #uBUNtu-motu [05:46] basically our downloads pages are confusing messes [05:46] http://en.opensuse.org/Released_Version <-- not much better [05:47] ftp://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/iso/ <-- ouch [05:48] ok, MEPIS' sucks to [05:48] too, rather [05:49] Fedora has a rather nice page for first-time visitors IMO: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FC6ReleaseSummary === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:49] ubuntu.com/desktop [05:51] that FC6 page isn't great [05:51] download ISOs [05:52] none of the top 10 DW distros have great downoad pages [05:52] ours is probably the clearest [05:52] well, but on the other hand most don't have Desktop/Alternate distinctions do they? [05:53] usually they get lost in techno babble land, with terms like ISO and torrent [05:53] does capitalized "away" mean "really away" these days? :-) [05:53] yeah [05:53] doh [05:54] ok, thoughts [05:54] the front page of Ubuntu.com has those desktop and server sections [05:54] they currently have links that say "Information' and "Download" [05:55] what about changing the information to "Discover" [05:56] Burgundavia: about the "ISO" and "torrent" usage -- I am not sure fedora people are targeting completely new linux users, so that may be fine [05:56] I personally think that's fine [05:56] true [05:56] but we are [05:57] on the other hand, I find "This type of CD is what most people will want to use" (desktop) very misleading to me [05:58] I am quite surprised to see using LVM are excluded from "most people" now [05:58] especially coming from Debian background [05:58] LVM is not a normal setup [05:58] (which has been supporting LVM for years) === Amaranth_ [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:59] true, I am only saying "to me", doesn't mean it's not correct for the target audience [05:59] yes [05:59] but in the context of that notice, LVM is fringe [06:00] I think the bigger issue is upgrades [06:00] you can only use the Alternate disc for upgrades [06:00] the automatic removal of lvm is disconcerting :) [06:01] I don't know others, but I am advocating LVM to every linux users I know in real life [06:02] minghua: evms [06:02] minghua: easier to use than lvm, though it needs love too. And we're heading for some slick evms support in fisty [06:03] lifeless: does that mean the default feisty kernel will support evms? [06:04] minghua: the default edgy kernel supports evms [06:04] minghua: as does dapper [06:04] anyway I think I'll stick to lvm though :-) [06:04] lifeless: oh sorry. I am on debian now [06:04] minghua: well, thats your problem :) [06:05] you can upgrade easily though. === Amaranth__ [n=travis@ip68-229-188-84.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:05] evms in debian should work fine though [06:06] lifeless: oh really? what does the description of your evms package on edgy say? ;-) [06:06] I think that's your problem now, isn't it? :-P [06:07] minghua: whatever drugs you are on, I want some [06:07] apt-get install evms-ncurses; evmsn [06:09] lifeless: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evms/2.5.5-18 [06:09] "In order to make full use of it, you must use a kernel which includes the EVMS patch, available in the linux-patch-evms package." [06:09] lifeless: when people hear about a software they never heard of, they apt-get show it first, not apt-get install it [06:10] and I would have been turned down by that description completely [06:10] whether the kernel really support it or not is probably irrelevant [06:11] Or am I missing anything here? [06:11] i wonder why me downloading all of main never works :( [06:15] minghua: the kernel has the patch in it [06:16] well, I'm having network issues [06:16] so will disappear soon. [06:16] anyhow, the *ubuntu* kernel has evmsn in it, and I'm pretty sure the debian one does too. [06:16] and has had for ages. File a bug on evms about the description if you like [06:17] lifeless: I said whether the kernel really support it is irrelevant [06:17] anyone know any other repository sync tools other than debmirror? [06:17] lifeless: and for now I can't care less about evms, so I won't bother filing a bug [06:18] minghua: not really, I think you should assume that if something is packaged, everything it needs is already present and ready to go [06:18] I think the reason tha tthe text is there in the package details is so that folk running their own kernel dont get into trouble [06:18] lifeless: I tend to believe in package description a lot [06:19] joejaxx: rsync ? [06:19] lifeless: i only want main and restricted [06:20] i am going to have them on my laptop [06:21] joejaxx: debmirror? [06:21] joejaxx: oh, hmm, I dont know [06:21] StevenK: i use debmirror now [06:21] but it fails [06:21] lifeless: to be fair linux-patch-evm package says most recent kernel shouldn't need the patch, but I still think it's wrong for evms to mention that if the default shipped kernel doesn't need a patch [06:21] and i have to keep running it over and over === Elive_user30 [n=Elive_us@24.164.243.86] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:21] joejaxx: The mirror you're pulling from is not up to snuff? [06:22] i am pulling from archive.ubuntu.com [06:22] Odd. [06:24] minghua: I disagree, its useful to make sure folk can run their own custom kernel safely [06:24] yeah, except I would have done the same thing "Ugg, I need a custom kernel, no thanks" [06:24] lifeless: no problem. I am not an evms user, so my opinion is not important [06:25] minghua: well, its not about evms per se, its about what information the package description should include. [06:25] I think the evms package should note that the patch is required *if* a custom kerenel is being used. [06:26] lifeless: what I meant is we can agree to disagree. If I maintain a package that needs kernel support, I won't mention it in the package description if the default kernel has the support [06:26] lifeless: I'll put the warning about custom kernel in README.Debian instead [06:26] minghua: do you maintain any such packages today ? [06:27] lifeless: or maybe even do something special in the maintainer script to detect custom kernel / necessary kernel support [06:27] lifeless: no. I've said my opinion is not important [06:29] minghua: I'm not treating it as important or not. I'm trying to ensure that if/when you introduce such a package you supply what our users probably need. [06:29] lifeless: by "our users" you mean "ubuntu users"? [06:29] no [06:30] then I disagree. I expect debian users to read /usr/share/doc//README.Debian [06:30] you have said you use debian, and I get the impression you are not a motu, rather you do debian development. So I'm meaning 'any user of the debian family of distributions' [06:30] and I also said, the best way is probably auto-detect the necessary kernel feature [06:31] lifeless: I am a MOTU. I am also maintaining packages in Debian. [06:31] putting it in th emaintainer script is not a good idea because the kernel can be upgraded/switched with no notification to your package. [06:31] you could try to get some sort of run-parts .d directory for installation of kernel patches to allow you to check when a kernel is installed but that will still fail to find locally built and not packaged kernels [06:31] lifeless: good point. maybe a wrapper script for the binary then [06:32] I mean do run-time checking (if that is possible at all) [06:32] i dont expect users of my packages to read README.Debian, even though I strive to make it useful. [06:32] lifeless: I do, for Debian users. that's why I said we can agree to disagree [06:33] minghua: that is only useful and sane if your package will not cause a boot failure when the kernel patch is missing [06:33] minghua: you expect it, but, I'll take any social bet you like that < 10% of debian users *who are not contributors* even know that that file exists. [06:34] indeed, I think if a message is that helpful, better to make it salient than to let users learn the hard way that they needed something [06:34] lifeless: and my opinion is that they deserve the boot failure. it's not a very good attitude, I know. but I am just annoyed by too many clueless users [06:35] ok, see, if you're sociopathic like that, you shouldn't be making these decisions [06:35] cause you're packaging for users, not for yourself [06:35] minghua: its a pretty poor attitude ... "Our priorities are our users and free software [06:35] " [06:35] the package I maintain has a 4.3K gzipped README.Debian by the way [06:35] now thats my opinion :) [06:36] thing is, there's no disadvantage to including a quick warning about something in the description [06:36] even if it includes a recommendation to read README.debian [06:37] minghua: I'm glad you write documentation; I think thats very important. [06:37]