[03:10] <fumbalah> Hi
[03:13] <fumbalah> How is everyones evening>
[03:43] <fumbalah> I need to get a docking station
[04:12] <tonyyarusso> What are those for anyway?
[04:12] <fumbalah> Laptops
[04:12] <fumbalah> you have a workstation setup at your desk
[04:12] <fumbalah> and then when you come back to your desk you are able to dock in
[04:13] <tonyyarusso> Is it just the convenience of connecting one thing rather than four cables or so?
[04:13] <fumbalah> No
[04:13] <fumbalah> My laptop doesnt have PS2 ports and such, and I still have PS2 keyboard
[04:14] <tonyyarusso> Oh
[04:14] <fumbalah> just make it a little easier to work at my desk
[04:14] <tonyyarusso> That I could go for, but it would be a lot cheaper to just buy a PS2-usb adapter.
[04:15] <fumbalah> yea, good point, but i'm eventually going to have a montior and all that stuff setyp as well
[04:16] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, I think I have the rest of the ports I'd need though, for my stuff.  VGA out, usb, S video, ethernet, modem, sound, parallel.  Pretty much all I require.
[04:16] <fumbalah> ah
[09:30] <Madpilot> hi mdke 
[09:30] <mdke> hi Madpilot. How are you?
[09:31] <Madpilot> good enough - getting tired of winter rain already, and it's barely mid-November...
[09:31] <mdke> heh
[09:31] <mdke> you need to come over here, the weather has been great
[09:32] <Madpilot> lucky you. We've pretty much had a week of rain & grey :|
[09:35] <Burgundavia> we went from drought to the heaviest rain in the history of Victoria in a single day
[09:35] <mdke> crazy
[09:35] <Burgundavia> now it is some rain, some just cloudy
[09:39] <Madpilot> welcome to the Wet Coast 
[10:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71622 in ubuntu-docs "command not found is a bad test case for checking if a package is installed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71622
[10:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71623 in ubuntu-docs "missing suffix .tgz in the list of tarballs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71623
[11:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71625 in ubuntu-docs "[desktop-guide, add-applications]  a comma too much" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71625
[11:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71626 in ubuntu-docs "[desktop-guide - add-applications]  Adding Extra Repositories was not updated for edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71626
[12:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71632 in ubuntu-docs "[desktop-guide]  gnucash has got a menu entry" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71632
[01:33] <fumbalah> Good morning
[02:38] <glatzor> mdke: I don't get automatically forwarded to the German website index of help.ubuntu.com. Could you tell me the url?
[04:45] <fumbalah> Good morning
[04:50] <fumbalah> Howwss everypme dpomg
[04:50] <fumbalah> everyone doing?
[08:17] <fumbalah> Hi gus
[08:17] <fumbalah> guys*
[08:34] <mdke> fumbalah: hello
[09:35] <nixternal> trappist: remember this ->  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136977  <- i swore we attacked this a while back
[09:35] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 136977 in general "Page for knetworkconf module shows garbage" [Normal,New]  
[09:36] <trappist> nixternal: that one doesn't ring a bell
[09:37] <nixternal> hmm..i thought it was us who worked on that
[09:37] <nixternal> well then, i can't remember who it was then ;)
[09:37] <trappist> oh wait, maybe it was...
[09:39] <trappist> yeah I think it had to do with /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/knetworkconf/index.cache.bz2
[09:41] <mdke> nixternal: if you have a moment, we need to resolve my comment on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-docs/+bug/71524
[09:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71524 in kubuntu-docs "Video Gramatical Awkwardness" [Low,Fix committed]  
[09:42] <nixternal> hrmm..i have been doing this for bug fixes
[09:42] <nixternal> should we just leave them be then?
[09:43] <mdke> well, that's what I wanted to raise
[09:43] <mdke> the string freeze doesn't just stop applying after release, at least that's the present position
[09:44] <mdke> if we want to consider a change to that, we should discuss it
[09:44] <nixternal> ahh, ok, so since they aren't major typos, then leave well enough alone i see..they are like the actual typos that were found previously
[09:45] <LaserJock> yeah, that didn't make any sense :-)
[09:45] <nixternal> no it didn't
[09:45] <nixternal> i was watching tv and typing at the same time
[09:45] <mdke> any change whatsoever to a string after the freeze means that the translations get out of date
[09:45] <nixternal> it doesn't pay off i guess ;p
[09:45] <nixternal> so then, bugs remain bugs forever then if that is the case
[09:45] <nixternal> bugs remain open
[09:45] <nixternal> rather
[09:46] <mdke> nixternal: they get fixed in the next release. It's like all bugs in Ubuntu
[09:46] <nixternal> well, not necessarily, otherwise we wouldn't have to apt-get update until the next release
[09:47] <mdke> right, with the exception of security updates, and whatever else they force through the procedure that deals with when non-security updates are allowed
[09:47] <nixternal> hrmm
[09:48] <nixternal> ok, so then my understanding is now this, i file a bug in edgy, i am not supposed to expect it getting fixed until 7.04 then?
[09:48] <mdke> that's generally right, unless it's a security or critical bug
[09:48] <nixternal> interesting
[09:48] <nixternal> i did not know that
[09:49] <mdke> there are loads of exceptions though, dapper has had a much more liberal process, because of the point releases and so on
[09:49] <mdke> anyway. We can think about changing our policy.
[09:50] <nixternal> ok, so should i go through all of my "fix committed" ones, and just close them out, as it is in trunk then?
[09:50] <mdke> because it's hard to break the system simply by changing a documentation string. We just need to have a proper procedure for (a) ensuring the change doesn't break anything, and (b) taking care of translations
[09:51] <nixternal> plus i know the kubuntu docs are going to be rewritten from the ground up more than likely..and now kubuntu release notes and about kubuntu will be apart of the ubiquity package and hte kubuntu.org website
[09:51] <mdke> rewriting from the ground up sounds like an incredibly bad idea
[09:51] <nixternal> well, the current state of kubuntu docs is incredibly not good
[09:52] <nixternal> the only doc that will be getting the overhaul is the desktop guide
[09:52] <mdke> and building on it won't work?
[09:53] <nixternal> well, building on it will occur of course, but there is going to be a layout design reconsideration
[09:53] <nixternal> we keep building on stale docs
[09:53] <mdke> are these plans going to be shared with the whole team?
[09:54] <nixternal> well, the guys who work on the kubuntu docs are in on the idea, however nothing is set in stone of course
[09:54] <mdke> don't forget that the desktopguide isn't unique to kubuntu-docs
[09:54] <nixternal> not until it gets approved and eveyrone agrees on it..right now it is an idea/spec
[09:55] <nixternal> well, because the desktop guide isn't unique, is why there are a lot of bugs int he kubuntu side of it...with a lot of menus based off of gnome
[09:55] <mdke> right. So it would be nice to think about how to make that work
[09:55] <mdke> customising the menu entities might be one good option
[09:55] <nixternal> well, that is what we are talking about as well, and of course we are wanting to implement the book as well
[09:56] <mdke> it's a shame to not talk about this together. I haven't seen it on the list
[09:57] <nixternal> well, the reason it isn't on the list is due to it being kde/kubuntu and there are only 4 or 5 of us that work on them a majority of the time
[09:57] <mdke> isn't the list appropriate for kubuntu documentation discussion?
[09:57] <mdke> is it on another list?
[09:57] <nixternal> no, we just email it back and forth between the people who would be working on it
[09:58] <nixternal> and really, it is nothing more than a spec anyhow
[09:58] <nixternal> so there was no huge discussion behind closed doors
[09:58] <nixternal> all discussion was really right here in this channel
[09:58] <mdke> ah, I missed it.
[09:58] <mdke> Let's get talking about how to adapt the desktopguide for Feisty.
[09:58] <nixternal> 2 nights ago myself, robotgeek and jjesse discussed it
[09:59] <mdke> I'll send an email in the next few days to get rid of this nonsense misunderstanding about the topic based help spec, and we can try and move forward a scheme to get things working for everyone
[09:59] <nixternal> well, i know the kubuntu side has a lot of good info to pull from the book
[09:59] <nixternal> kubuntu really doesn't
[09:59] <nixternal> lol
[10:00] <nixternal> well, the topic based help is definitely needed, but not as a replacement
[10:00] <mdke> don't start
[10:00] <nixternal> i have talked to gnome and kde doc writers today, and they both said that mallard is good, but wouldn't replace the current docs, but would be seperate from it
[10:00] <nixternal> hahaha mdke
[10:00] <nixternal> hahahaa
[10:00] <mdke> that spec is (or should be) nothing to do with Mallard
[10:01] <mdke> it's simply about how to better present the current stuff we have
[10:01] <nixternal> well, mallard is only and idea
[10:01] <nixternal> only that blurb on the website really
[10:01] <mdke> right
[10:02] <mdke> so it's simply about better presentation of the material
[10:02] <nixternal> i personally like the layouts we have now, i just think there needs to be more information covering some of the topics people are constantly asking about..and there needs to be a way to easily search for a topic as well
[10:02] <mdke> it's nothing to do with writing replacement material, or anything
[10:02] <nixternal> that search part though is on devs more than us
[10:04] <mdke> you know in khelpcenter where you have the first title as "Kubuntu Documents"
[10:04] <mdke> ?
[10:05] <nixternal> ya
[10:05] <mdke> wouldn't it be nicer to have a list of topics similar to that you get on the wiki frontpage, instead of those 5 guides?
[10:05] <mdke> that is basically _all_ that spec is about
[10:06] <nixternal> it would be nicer standpoint on the help side of it, but for documentation, i prefer the guides, but i know i may be the only one
[10:06] <mdke> the user who clicks on "Kubuntu Documents" and sees "Desktop" doesn't get any closer to finding the right material... whereas if he sees "Internet", he does
[10:07] <mdke> what's the distinction you're making between help and documentation?
[10:07] <nixternal> help helps, documentation/guides guide
[10:07] <nixternal> haha
[10:07] <nixternal> this don't work, what should i do <- help
[10:07] <mdke> eh?
[10:07] <nixternal> i would like to know more about so and so <-doc/guide
[10:08] <mdke> I don't understand that at all. 
[10:08] <mdke> they are two types of the same thing. Both of them help, surely? and both of them are documentation
[10:08] <nixternal> i need help on something, i really don't go to the guides/documentation, o goto the forums or google
[10:09] <nixternal> but if i want to read up and understand a process or an application, i goto our documentation (desktop guide, server guide, packaging guide)
[10:09] <mdke> these are just semantic issues then
[10:09] <mdke> the point is, it's easier to find the right documentation if it's presented in a topic layout. I bet you people find the wiki easier to navigate that khelpcenter/yelp
[10:10] <nixternal> true
[10:10] <mdke> *"I bet you that people"
[10:10] <nixternal> especially when the search feature works for the wiki better than it does in khelp
[10:11] <mdke> there you go. Get away from this "help vs documentation" distinction, it'll just confuse you
[10:11] <nixternal> hehe
[10:12] <nixternal> so then, do you propose that we don't ship docs, but instead utilize the wiki?
[10:12] <mdke> argh.
[10:12] <LaserJock> nixternal: dude 
[10:13] <nixternal> what
[10:13] <mdke> head->wall
[10:13] <nixternal> no doubt
[10:13] <nixternal> one more time for good measure
[10:13] <mdke> No, the idea is simply to present the docs we ship more nicely, in a similar way to how the wiki front page lays it out
[10:13] <nixternal> thats what i always do
[10:13] <LaserJock> nixternal: go to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
[10:13] <nixternal> got it
[10:14] <mdke> no replacement of anything, no drastic anything, no ignoring kubuntu, it's ALL GOOD
[10:14] <nixternal> well, i just now realised that he meant to use the wiki above as a way to explain the layout, and not as a use ;)
[10:20] <fumbalah> Hi nixternal 
[10:23] <nixternal> hiya fumbalah
[10:26] <fumbalah> How you doin?
[10:29] <nixternal> a little bit better since my pooch is home
[10:29] <nixternal> but the news wasn't so great on her condition
[10:40] <fumbalah> That's not good...I'm sorry..What's up?
[10:41] <nixternal> congestive heart failure
[10:42] <LaserJock> :(
[10:42] <nixternal> she can't do anythign fun now, because a spike in her heart rate could kill her
[10:43] <nixternal> she still has a little fluid around the lungs, but that is almost gone, she is breathing normal
[10:43] <LaserJock> how old is she?
[10:43] <nixternal> 11
[10:43] <nixternal> she is still kind of young...she should have 6 more years in her
[10:43] <nixternal> probably all of them mcdonalds fries catching up to her ;)
[10:44] <fumbalah> ah, what type of dog?
[10:44] <nixternal> maltize
[10:44] <nixternal> she is sleeping on my feet
[10:44] <nixternal> the vet gave me her x-rays on a cd
[10:45] <fumbalah> THat's pretty cool they can do that now
[10:45] <nixternal> her heart is a little enlarged right now...so hopefully the meds will get it back to somewhat normal soon
[10:45] <fumbalah> yea
[10:45] <fumbalah> I wish you luck :)
[10:45] <nixternal> i have to put her med in a piece of chicken, otherwise you would have a better chance of feeding a wild tiger w/o getting mauled
[10:45] <fumbalah> Nice
[10:46] <nixternal> well, whatever we decide on the docs, can we start and finish a little sooner this time around? :)
[10:46] <nixternal> LaserJock: any plans on expanding the packaging guide to get a little more in depth on things at all, or the in-depth stuff is for the wiki?
[10:47] <fumbalah> Are we deciding on feisty stuff?
[10:47] <nixternal> im a packaging fool now...i gotta get my MOTU soon
[10:47] <nixternal> off the records we are discussing feisty, but not making plans right now
[10:47] <nixternal> i can't type or speak today
[10:47] <nixternal> i went to bed at 3:30 and work up at 7
[10:48] <nixternal> im flat out beat
[10:48] <fumbalah> My mom did that this morning
[10:48] <fumbalah> Shes been complaning all day
[10:48] <nixternal> heh
[10:48] <LaserJock> nixternal: basically right now I'm cool with people working on whatever they want
[10:48] <LaserJock> nixternal: I doubt I'm going to have time to write a ton on it
[10:48] <nixternal> busy busy busy
[10:48] <LaserJock> but I'm still game for overseeing stuff
[10:48] <fumbalah> Shouldnt some things be getting assigned instead of people randomly choosing things
[10:49] <nixternal> well when it comes to the packaging guide, not everyone can write for it
[10:49] <nixternal> you need to be good at packaging before you can write about it
[10:49] <fumbalah> your just discussing apackaging...I went ot bed late to, I'm bound to miss things
[10:50] <nixternal> i know how to hack all of the /debian stuff now, i know postinst, prerm, control, compat, and rules now, i used cdbs for patching with simple-patchsys.mk
[10:50] <fumbalah> I'm totally not having any luck finding a webhosting job
[10:50] <LaserJock> nixternal: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide has notes on things that need to be done
[10:50] <nixternal> im not a huge fan of dpatch, especially after using cdbs ;)
[10:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71696 in ubuntu-docs "[desktop-guide - linux-basics]  missing explanation of /srv" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71696
[10:51] <nixternal> nice
[10:51] <LaserJock> linux basics need to explain /srv?
[10:51] <nixternal> i guess so
[10:51] <fumbalah> We should start an Ubuntu Server edition host
[10:51] <nixternal> heh
[10:51] <nixternal> that guy needs to read the server guide
[10:52] <LaserJock> nixternal: anyway, if you have time to do some writing on the packaging guide I'd greatly appreciate it
[10:52] <nixternal> i don't even use that directory, and he probably doesn't either, was just nosey looking through /
[10:52] <LaserJock> I think I'm going to do some email/blog work to get some people interested
[10:52] <nixternal> sure LaserJock, im sure i can help you out a little bit
[10:53] <LaserJock> I'm having to really cut back on Ubuntu projects
[10:53] <nixternal> get that crimsun guy interested, since he is the ubuntu/debian/linux guru
[10:53] <LaserJock> no
[10:53] <nixternal> heh
[10:53] <LaserJock> he's got too much "real" work to do on alsa and Universe
[10:53] <nixternal> and University
[10:53] <LaserJock> if he's done fixing those then he can come write
[10:53] <nixternal> ;)
[10:53] <nixternal> hahahaha
[10:53] <nixternal> i can't wait to dput ubuntu
[10:53] <nixternal> im tired of dput revu
[10:54] <LaserJock> it made me a little nervous the first time ;-)
[10:54] <nixternal> heh, so do my first svn commit here
[10:54] <nixternal> i sat and waited to get a lashing
[10:55] <nixternal> i never had svn commit access to kde, and still don't/or plan on it, but that one would be scary, even though svn revert fixes everything
[10:57] <LaserJock> yeah, no going back on an upload
[10:57] <LaserJock> unless you can catch an archive admin real quick
[10:57] <nixternal> heh
[10:58] <nixternal> i have 3 packages..im lame
[10:58] <nixternal> kflickr, gwenview, and koverartist
[11:04] <fumbalah> jeez I leave for two seconds
[11:05] <LaserJock> darn it, my vacuum pump killed another motor :(
[11:06] <LaserJock> something has to be wrong with it
[11:06] <nixternal> lol
[11:06] <nixternal> you are such a nerd
[11:06] <nixternal> i have an eheim pushing a about a hundred gallons an hour through my computer
[11:07] <nixternal> of water that is
[11:11] <nixternal> woohoo...my gf wants me to cook dinner...guess what
[11:11] <nixternal> she will dump me after this one for sure!!!
[11:11] <nixternal> bbl
[11:25] <fumbalah> lol
[11:33] <nixternal> LaserJock: Giuliani started an exploritory committee for 2008!!!
[11:34] <LaserJock> he hadn't done that before?
[11:34] <LaserJock> :-0
[11:34] <nixternal> nope
[11:34] <nixternal> just now said it on fox
[11:34] <nixternal> http://www.solutionsamerica.com <- they just fired this bad boy up
[11:37] <nixternal> LaserJock: heh, he did the exploration for the senate, and lost to satan, better known to the world as hillary, but this is for presidency
[11:38] <crimsun> you're screwed if you're supposed to be cooking dinner but instead 're on irc.
[11:38] <nixternal> hahaha
[11:38] <nixternal> its in the oven
[11:38] <nixternal> im screwed if i was to sit there and watch it as well
[11:38] <crimsun> yeah, we've heard that one before...
[11:38] <nixternal> hahahahah
[11:38] <nixternal> i have yet to mess up a roast
[11:39] <nixternal> ;) j/k
[11:42] <nixternal> mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDesktopGuide   <- that is the proposed spec for the KDG, draft...it isn't a whole rewrite, but a build on top of current, with a definite redesign leaning towards topical breakdown