=== slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:24] hmmm, lots of people complaining about the file system on the forums [12:25] the file system ? [12:25] seems odd that people would be worried about that now, although maybe it's always been there and I've missed it [12:25] the directory layout [12:25] /bin, /etc .... [12:25] /etc is new in edgy? ;) [12:25] now I know why I don't read the forums [12:26] and I thought ubuntu-devel@ was difficult to follow :) [12:27] so basically they say FHS is wrong, or what? [12:28] it seems that a more OS X or GoboLinux [12:28] yep [12:28] yeah, that FHS is tool archaic and difficult for new people to learn [12:28] s/tool/too/ [12:29] yeah, I remember Gobo Linux [12:29] such a weird idea [12:29] it's an interesting thought, I mean we shouldn't *only* keep things around because that's the way it's always been done === minghua really prefers /etc/ to c:\Program Files\ [12:29] but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me [12:30] do new users really go rooting around the file system like that? [12:30] forums people do [12:30] and then they fuck up their machines and bitch to /. [12:30] sure [12:31] I was just thinking about a conversation I had with imbrandon about him using the .hidden file in Kubuntu [12:31] they don't use the proper tool, but modify files in /etc/ by hand, then complain that /etc/ is too hard to understand [12:31] it has been a long time since the forums had a sensible idea [12:31] basically not showing that stuff to the user by default [12:31] I agree hiding them from users in the GUI is a good idea [12:31] sometimes the forums are worth addressing though [12:32] as they are our largest user population that we can get at [12:32] sometimes [12:32] nah. I read the forum thread about _ion's wallpaper today [12:32] a lot of people in the forums have a hard time understanding how development works [12:32] don't want to read forum again in near future [12:32] I should write a piece about it [12:36] darn it, that "lets do stable, testing, and unstable in Ubuntu" thread is kinda messy [12:36] that joepotter guy really gets on my nerves [12:37] he flames me almost every time I talk about Ubuntu development [12:37] he really can't stand that Ubuntu does it differently then Debian [12:38] LaserJock, you should stop reading forums and work on science packages :-P [12:39] I know === joejaxx loves grub error 15 [12:39] but there needs to be some sanity on the forums ;-) [12:39] even if it's too little too late :-) [12:39] no there doesn't. Think of it as a playpen. [12:41] well, for the most part I don't care [12:41] LaserJock, whats the link to that thread? [12:42] what really aggravates me is when somebody spouts completely false information and then all the little sheep take it as gospel [12:42] people throwing ideas around, even if they aren't great, is much better then specifically spreading false information [12:43] pygi: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=297169 === minghua fetches dictionary and looks up those christian terms... [12:43] minghua: sorry, got too much into cultural/religious references ;-) [12:44] LaserJock: actually I only need to look up gospel. Just a reminder not everyone understands bible references :-) [12:45] minghua: I'll rephrase it as "take it as absolute truth" [12:47] this guy just doesn't understand the unstable branch is not important, it's the _people_ who use the unstable branch that are important" [12:47] at least that's my opinion === luisbg [n=d33p@87.217.144.220] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:52] okay, time to go home [12:59] it's true [01:00] but I do find myself unsatified with the stability of some aspects of Ubuntu [01:00] ....too late to talk with minghua though, hehe [01:00] right [01:00] it's find to be unsatisfied, IMO [01:01] but the answer is not to just shout at the developers [01:01] and insult them :-) [01:01] where does he do that? [01:01] lol [01:01] although it's fine to insult the raging motuaholic. [01:02] hmm [01:02] he's a RAGING motuaholic; he can take it [01:02] Simon80: well, that guy has insulted me absolutely every time he has replied to one of my posts [01:02] this is the tamest one I've seen, so far [01:05] convince those guys to spec and implement an alternative release, then, in parallel with feisty. [01:05] I suspect they'll change their minds very, very quickly [01:05] and "I give up, you do it" is not an option for them :) [01:05] remember it's fashionable to pick on Ubuntu [01:06] people love to whine; only a few actually put in the work [01:07] yep [01:07] (that's why we exist, eh?) [01:07] somewhat, I was mostly no work untill recently.. I plan on getting stepmania into feisty [01:07] people want to give their 2 cents without diong work [01:07] doing* [01:08] heh, and people wonder why some DDs seem bitter... [01:08] in some cases I think that's valid, like if something regresses, or just isn't fixed, and the fix is out there === tenshu [n=tenshu@sgc91-1-82-231-155-79.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:11] unfortunately just because a fix is available doesn't imply it's appropriate === geser [n=michael@dialin110076.justdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === marcin_ant [n=marcin@194.114.146.126] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:12] but usually it is [01:12] we've seen that a few times with various updates. There's no guarantee said fix doesn't introduce regressions. [01:21] well, I wouldn't mind people bringing up problems, but often there is a lack of understanding of the development process [01:21] which is understandable if you haven't been around it before [01:21] :) [01:21] so when that hapens, find the netry point and update it to supply more hints === LaserJock updates ubuntuforums.org to redirect to wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU [01:23] lol [01:23] pwnt [01:28] ok, well I blasted away a big on on that thread (like it'll do any good) [01:28] and now I need to get back to useful things [01:29] re [01:29] heya LaserJock [01:29] and lifeless [01:29] hi imbrandon [01:29] huhu Simon80 new face ( to me ), how go's it [01:30] hey imbrandon long time no see [01:31] heya superm1 yea, i dident make it on irc much last week at the UDS [01:31] just poped in and out [01:31] ah. UDS go well? [01:31] yea very well over all from my point of view [01:31] lots of productive stuff got done/planned [01:32] ( and some not so productive stuff after hours ) [01:32] good good [01:32] hehe [01:32] hehe [01:32] hi imbrandon === imbrandon still has to learn to play moui ( sp? ) better [01:32] no, im brandon [01:32] imbrandon: mao [01:32] bhale, true but imbrandon not im brandon :) hehe [01:32] lifeless, ahh yea [01:33] i dont think i did terrible for the first time only played what , an hour or so [01:33] imbrandon: I was truly terrible at it in Paris [01:33] whats moui? i'm not turning up much in google [01:33] heh [01:34] imbrandon: but I was working on not enough sleep and was a bit sick at the time [01:34] well i made it down to 2 cards at one point so i was happy [01:34] superm1: mao [01:34] ah hehe [01:34] it's some sort of geek-magnet card game [01:34] mao , thus the (sp? ) at the end i wasent sure of the spelling [01:34] superm1: who did you say you were in contact with in Toronto? [01:34] oh michael macleod [01:35] ahh.. [01:35] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_(game) [01:35] I hosted a newbie ubuntu workshop last night and met a woman there who said she was talking to you about your myth/edgy wiki page [01:35] sounds cool "the only rule you may be told is this one." [01:36] lophyte, did you catch her name? [01:36] nope :\ [01:36] superm1, yea you cant be told the rules before or durring the game play [01:36] thats really cool [01:36] just know that she's setting up a home theater system with myth [01:36] and she mentioned you [01:36] glad to hear that i'm making the rounds in canadia :) [01:36] hehe, apparently [01:37] imbrandon, well in favor of having a more fun first game then, i wont read the rules on the wikipedia page [01:38] her handle is dennister [01:38] :) [01:38] wuhoh, we have another motu celeb in our midst [01:38] dennister, hmm i'll have to look through some emails and see if i can find out who she was [01:39] that's her handle on linuxcaffe.ca anyway.. dunno if she uses it anywhere else [01:39] imbrandon: hey, stepmania has brought me here [01:39] packaging it [01:39] woooo stepmania [01:39] dude! [01:39] I just got an awesome idea [01:39] when I get around to setting up a myth box.. I'm *so* installing stepmania on it [01:39] yeah, if you want a stepmania deb from 20061106 cvs sources, it's on my site [01:40] Simon80, rock on, just saying "hi" since i hadent talked/typed to you before [01:40] yeah, I know [01:40] I was responding to that :) [01:40] lophyte, i've got it on my mythbox with a hand built metal pad, but i havent played in ages since the pad broke 4 months ago [01:40] aww [01:40] nice.. I've always wanted to build a dandce pad [01:41] yeah, I may want to [01:41] gonna go eat [01:41] the damn pad we have keeps slipping, annoying as heck [01:41] there was a good guide i found a few years back to building a metal one. cost me roughly 120 USD and 28 hrs labor [01:41] I saw a guide for one made of wood [01:41] http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/ if anyone wants stepmania as is... I'm gonna backport to 3.9 sometime so I can get it on revu [01:41] need to get my key signed too [01:42] you know what would work, though? just nail/velcro the real pads to a wooden platform [01:42] that way they won't slip === Nafallo [n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:42] that doesnt work because they wear out [01:42] after so many steps [01:42] I know someone who's done that [01:42] thats what i originally did [01:42] based on a howto online [01:42] but i was going through pads too quickly [01:42] sure, but buy a new one.. they're cheap [01:42] so i built the metal one [01:42] we've had our pads for almost a year [01:42] it's really the adapter that's a pain to obtain, getting one that maps buttons to buttons [01:43] so once you have that, you can get a pad locally === fernando_ [n=fernando@200.96.251.210] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:43] you mean a PS2->USB adapter? [01:43] yeah [01:43] sorry [01:43] lol === imbrandon has made a few snes->ltp adapeters by hand :) [01:44] but yes, I bought 5 pads+adapters from lik-sang a while ago [01:44] early this year [01:44] 1 for me, 1 for gf, 1 for little sis, 2 to sell [01:44] had one lined up to sell right away, was too lazy to second the second [01:44] sell* [01:44] it wouldn't be too hard to build a simple wooden platform.. [01:45] i used a hand built lpt -> ps2 adapter for a while too, but i only ever had it working in win98 back in the day. never got it working in linux, so i got one of those lik sang ones too === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:45] yeah, I got one of the 2 port triangle shaped adapters [01:46] imbrandon, could you by chance get those branches set up tonite? i've got some debdiffs that are growing by the day that i wanted to try to get on there [01:46] superm1, just load the joydev and ...... umm *rembers* gamecon kernel modules if not loaded already and the ltp ones work [01:46] superm1, sure === jonh_wendell [n=wendell@40-88-199-200.vcnet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:46] I suck at DDR though.. lol [01:46] but meh [01:46] its fun [01:47] hi all [01:47] ello fernando [01:47] i'll have to dig up that adapter from the closet and see if i cant get it working with those modules. i remember only briefly trying with it [01:48] gamecon takes some parms , you'll probably have to google for the exact ones [01:49] its very possible the adapter is broken though too. i did a *very* ghetto soldering job on it, and have moved several times since then === Spec[x] [n=dragonco@charon.devis.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:49] heh === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:15] hey [02:15] hi zul [02:15] how is it going laserjock? [02:16] oh ya know [02:16] got a little annoying fight on the forums going on [02:16] heya zul\ [02:16] but I'm about done with that [02:16] heh...im back in ottawa finally [02:16] just ignore the forums you'll live longer === poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:17] hey imbrandon [02:17] flight back sucked [02:17] ouch [02:19] i was 2 hours late getting to ottawa, the toilet wasnt working, the flight was overbooked, and they changed the gates 3 times [02:19] wow [02:20] im never ever flying american again [02:23] zul if your not in a hurry, you have to try to capitalize on those overbookings. i got a voucher for 300 USD and an overnight stay at a very nice hotel in raleigh last time i was on a plane that was overbooked. [02:23] just "volunteer" your seat in those cases [02:24] meh...i wanted to get home [02:24] now i try to plan all my trips with a day of leeway on at least one end so that I can take advantage if i get the chance === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua [n=minghua@ppp-69-153-141-126.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sharms_ [n=sharms@24-148-40-178.mct-bsr1.chi-mct.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doomsday- [n=doomsday@home.cameuh.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:35] \o/ [02:36] zul: overbooking == $profitable$ === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:39] heya sladen and Hobbsee [02:39] heya imbrandon === desrt [n=desrt@dhcp-0-20-af-d2-7c-3.cpe.mountaincable.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [02:42] hi LaserJock, imbrandon and Hobbsee [02:43] hi minghua === LaserJock does a little dance [02:43] LaserJock: what is so exciting? [02:44] hey minghua! === luisbg [n=d33p@87.217.144.169] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:44] hey LaserJock [02:45] minghua: I'm manipulating the gnome menu [02:45] nice :) [02:45] oh that. I had quite some fun the other day, too [02:45] to make it become like kde? [02:47] Hobbsee: I'm implementing a dynamic group-driven menu system for Edubuntu [02:47] LaserJock: nice :) [02:48] we'll see ;-) [02:48] I was able to do a basic implementation during edgy [02:48] but it didn't have any kind of editing really === minghua_ [n=minghua@ppp-69-153-141-126.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:48] it was fixed but dynamic ;-) [02:49] lol [02:49] isn't that an oxymoron? [02:49] not exactly [02:49] depends on what is fixed and what is dynamic :-) [02:49] dynamic but not editable [02:49] exactly [02:49] I made it so that the menu changes depending on what groups a user belongs to [02:49] I thought that's usually called immutable in CS [02:50] but you can't edit the individual group menus [02:50] minghua: good thing I'm not in CS then ;-) [02:50] hahaha [02:50] so now I'm trying to figure out how to be able to edit my menus with alacarte [02:50] man this show is so not original [02:51] LaserJock, i would assume it would need a seperate tool [02:51] nah, I just need a wrapper [02:51] and some inventiveness ;-) [02:51] heh === imbrandon decides to look at the merges page for the first time [02:52] ( this cycle ) [02:52] basically setting XDG_CONFIG_HOME and then making my menu structure match what alacarte expects [02:52] LaserJock, ahhh ok [02:52] LaserJock, i thought you would be doing it diffrent, but that makes sense [02:52] imbrandon: I already did a Main merge [02:52] heh nice [02:52] imbrandon: well, writing a menu editor from scratch isn't nice :-) [02:54] imbrandon: if I want to join the uber MOTU clan I've got to put in some Main work ;-) [02:55] hehe [02:55] i was just checking on my merges, i have more in main then universe this timw [02:55] time* [02:56] LaserJock: we have two ex-DPLs on staff, not one [02:56] bdale and benc ? isnt it [02:57] Burgundavia: hence why I said at least [02:57] bdale is HP [02:57] iwj and BenC [02:57] ahh [02:57] mdz is a former security team member [02:57] I knew iwj and thought BenC [02:57] i dident know iwj was one, i knew benc was [02:57] the ber MOTU clan? the one crimsun is in? :-P [02:57] minghua, the one crimsun is he-man of :) [02:58] what was battlecats coward name ? [02:58] just responded on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1750220&posted=1#post1750220 [02:58] cringer [02:58] cringer, thats it, i'm cringer :) [02:58] heheh [02:59] heh who is the man at arms [02:59] or something like that [02:59] hehe [03:00] he-man.org [03:02] Hmmm. === minghua feels so much more at home with the text-mode installer, compared with the live CD and ubiquity [03:02] that's scary [03:02] minghua: me too :P [03:03] not really considering hes from debian , e.g. old school, that seems really normal [03:03] minghua: mind you, it is nice to have an irc client while installing [03:04] Hobbsee: very true === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:04] /uptime [03:04] grr === minghua is reminded the experience of installing woody without a second computer or internet [03:05] and dealing with XFree86 3.3 on my savage graphical card === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:11] Burgundavia: thanks ;-) [03:12] hmm, do we need to specifically list the Ubuntu changes that we drop in a merge? [03:12] or just the ones we keep? [03:12] LaserJock: the latter, i believe [03:12] cant see the point of the former [03:12] well, don't we need to list all the changes for a sync dropping Ubuntu changes? [03:13] it's been a while since I read the emails on that [03:14] bbl, off to the evil Walmart [03:14] Laser_away: yes [03:14] later Laser_away [03:14] Laser_away: that being said, some wont follow policy, and some will miss bits - so it's probably better to read it anyway === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:24] Burgundavia: thanks for the link of Bryce Harrington's blog, I like it a lot and agree on almost everything [03:25] hey Seveas, are you still in charge of handing out ubuntu member IRC cloaks? === minghua wants to get one [03:26] minghua, what's your lp id? === luisbg [n=d33p@87.217.146.114] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:28] Seveas: minghua - https://launchpad.net/people/minghua thanks :-) === minghua refuses installation CD's offer to install lilo [03:37] oh imbrandon, i was going to ask you too. did rt ever get back to you about setting up the mailing list for ubuntu-mythtv? [03:38] not yet, i dident do it at the summit and all the rt@ are in SF at the all hands meeting [03:39] sooo it will probably be next week [03:40] he imbrandon =) [03:40] s/e/ey/ [03:40] heya DBO [03:40] not meaning to bug but any progress on those packages? =) [03:40] superm1, sorry some things are going so fast these few weeks and some soo slow :) [03:41] (I recognize you probably just got back) [03:41] DBO, yea they are done but not ready to upload yet, still kinda hackish [03:41] i'll see if i can finish them tonight [03:41] hopefully [03:41] imbrandon, I'll owe you one or two [03:41] let me know if there is anything the Beryl guys can do for you === sharms_ [n=sharms@24-148-40-178.mct-bsr1.chi-mct.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:44] heh nothing really at this poit except be just finishing them, but i'm sure there will be something soonish :) [03:44] mt dew run brb [03:49] imbrandon: stay away from that stuff [03:51] hmm, are 3 positive votes from motu-sru for uploading to proposed? === minghua wonders why imbrandon doesn't have a refrigerator next to the computer :-) [03:51] minghua: you have seen his fridge, havent you? [03:51] s/for/enough for/ [03:51] Hobbsee: you mean the picture with nothing but Mt. Dew in it? yes. [03:52] lfittl: I believe so. 3/4 from what I remember [03:53] minghua: yep :P [03:54] k, thanks, finally I can upload this :) === minghua logs into his newly installed Kubuntu desktop [03:58] now I need to install gnome-terminal first :-P [03:58] hah [03:58] konsole works nicely [03:58] there's one thing that disturbs me about gnome-terminal [03:58] i think it's gnome-terminal - it might be xterm though. [03:58] there is many things, but thats another story [03:58] it doesnt let me use backspace [03:59] (at least on my old machine) [03:59] nah. no way I can change a terminal to work in, like you can't switch my editor [03:59] it's just a shell [03:59] any terminal will give you a bash shell, or whatever you want [03:59] :) [03:59] for some people the whole "desktop" is web browser and terminal :-) [04:00] yeah, well [04:00] they're just crazy :P [04:00] (and I am actually quite close, probably plus xchat-gnome) [04:00] minghua, there are other programs ? [04:00] heh [04:00] ouch, good thing you have konversation now, i can see using gnome-term, but not xchat [04:00] imbrandon: yes, frozen bubble! [04:00] whew [04:00] hehe [04:01] xchat-gnome is actually quite different from xchat [04:01] but I suppose it doesn't make enough difference to you KDE guys [04:01] Yes it does actually [04:01] yea xchat-gnome not only sucks as much as xchat but on top of that it sticks all the settings in the registry^Wgconf [04:02] :) [04:02] Bahhhhhhhh @ imbrandon [04:02] Xchat is by far the most superior GUI IRC client available. It's used and wanted by more users than xchat-gnome and also updated more often. [04:03] IMO xchat-gnome should *not* be in main over xchat. But I've also filed a bug/wishlist about this subject [04:03] matter of opinion :) [04:03] And my opinion counts! :-) [04:03] on both counts :) [04:08] Hmm, so Kubuntu does install libgtk2.0-0 by default === minghua wonders what that is for [04:08] not iirc [04:08] well, maybe only for alternative [04:08] but it's here on my fresh install [04:10] bluez-pin depends on it here [04:10] and libglade2-0 [04:10] ahh must be a mistake, thanks for pointing it out, i'll get that bug fixed [04:10] :) [04:11] do you KDE guys know that openoffice.org-core depends on libgtk2.0-0? === minghua grins [04:12] yes we know, and thus why feisty+1 wont have oo.o :) [04:12] Hmm, may god bless Kubuntu users then [04:17] actualy it makes alot of sense, but thats another story , i'll get into it later [04:19] if we were doing that, we could include firefox, surely! *g* [04:20] I heard KOffice is making good progress, but it's still hard to believe it will be ready to replace OO.o at feisty+1 frame [04:21] Hobbsee: I care about that mainly because one of my package went through heavy surgery in ubuntu to split out gtk dependencies [04:22] minghua: true [04:22] just because JRiddell doesn't want a Kubuntu install-by-default package to depend on gtk [04:23] so I am quite astonished to see that it doesn't make any difference anyway [04:23] its not that he dosent want it to depend on gtk, its that we promote kde apps not "best of breed" like suse or others [04:23] and koffice2 ( kde 4 ) will be in feisty+1 [04:24] and will have oasis and doc support by then so yes, it does make sense [04:24] instead of loading two libs [04:24] it only will load one set [04:24] also will save tons of room on the cd [04:24] to the tone of 75-90mb [04:24] :) [04:25] if koffice will have decent open document support, then I suppose yes, it does make sense [04:25] if we did best of breed it would make sense to use ff and gaim , and coutless others [04:25] ick, gaim [04:25] but I honestly doubt koffice will be ready by then === Hobbsee cant *stand* gaim [04:26] minghua, then you havent been following it closely, the 2 branch already has decient support for it ( just not stable right now becouse of the underlying libs ) [04:28] of course I haven't followed it closely [04:28] :) [04:28] but koffice 2 hasn't made a stable release yet, has it? [04:29] no obviously not ( as it depends on kde4 libs ) [04:29] and my general feeling is that an office suite program needs about one year to settle down after first stable release [04:29]