[12:10] <Keybuk> someone may have not set the list up properly
[12:10] <imbrandon> i had two uploads yesterday, one to a main package and one to NEW
[12:10] <imbrandon> obviously the NEW hasent been processed but the main package should have shownup
[12:11] <Keybuk> the NEW should have been ...
[12:11] <Keybuk> Colin and I are pretty much on top of NEW
[12:11] <imbrandon> ahh ok, i havent looked
[12:11] <mjg59> Keybuk: Thanks for that
[12:11] <mjg59> Keybuk: Everything looks good now
[12:11] <imbrandon> i just woke up, i did it before i slept last night
[12:11] <Keybuk> I have -changes files from the list ...
[12:12] <Keybuk> what package did you upload?
[12:12] <_ion> Btw, what is the reasong for having a monolithic linux-restricted-modules package instead of a plain metapackage that depends on nvidia-something, fglrx-something etc.
[12:13] <Keybuk> _ion: easier
[12:13] <mjg59> It means we don't need to manually retrigger half a dozen package builds every time there's a new kernel
[12:14] <_ion> keybuk: It seems to me that debian/rules in l-r-m is unnecessarily complex.
[12:14] <_ion> mjg59: That could be easily scripted.
[12:14] <mjg59> _ion: It's not always done by the same person
[12:14] <imbrandon> Keybuk, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+source/konversation/1.0.1-1ubuntu1  shows up as built etc, but not on changes, also the NEW was processed and built soooo, i dunno whats up
[12:15] <imbrandon> mirage was the package in NEW
[12:16] <Keybuk> kooky
[12:17] <zul> hey
[12:17] <imbrandon> heya zul
[12:17] <zul> hey imbrandon 
[12:18] <Keybuk> ROCKY!
[12:18] <imbrandon> heh
[12:18] <ajmitch> morning imbrandon :)
[12:19] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch
[12:50] <wasabi_> Feisty generally functional currently?
[12:50] <Keybuk> actually, it's not bad right now
[12:50] <Keybuk> the syncs have been done, but not most of the merges
[12:50] <pygi> wasabi, but it'll become soon :P
[12:50] <wasabi_> Sweet. Quick! Got to upgrade before it busts!
[12:50] <Keybuk> yet because Debian has been in freeze, the difference is not great
[12:50] <Keybuk> so it's not broken
[12:50] <Burgwork> cjwatson: is there a newer (dapper or edgy) kickstart manual?
[12:52] <Keybuk> Burgwork: cjwatson is busy :(
[12:53] <Burgwork> Keybuk: might you be able to help me>
[12:53] <Burgwork> ?
[12:53] <wasabi_> I miss Google's lunches.
[12:53] <wasabi_> Today's half assed tuna salad sandwich nearly made me cry.
[12:54] <imbrandon> lol @ wasabi_
[12:54] <Keybuk> Burgwork: I've no idea, I'm afraid
[12:54] <Burgwork> hmm
[12:54] <Keybuk> wasabi: the lunch at this hotel is pretty wet
[12:55] <wasabi_> Where are you at?/
[12:56] <Keybuk> one of the Hiltons in SF
[12:56] <wasabi_> nice
[01:00] <Keybuk> meh, just usual hotelish really
[01:00] <Keybuk> you get to see a lot of them in this job :p
[01:07] <Keybuk> sweet
[01:08] <Keybuk> I now have a list of removals in Debian
[01:08] <Keybuk> now I just need to filter those against what's in Ubuntu, and what's come back into Debian
[01:10] <imbrandon> Keybuk, that will take into account stuff thats only in ubuntu intentionaly right?
[01:10] <Keybuk> it processes the Debian removals file
[01:10] <Keybuk> rather than comparing the two distros ;)
[01:10] <imbrandon> ahh right on
[01:10] <Keybuk> and it's manual, I'll have to confirm each sourec package
[01:10] <Keybuk> pygi: Sledge in #debian-* ?
[01:11] <pygi> Keybuk, I mean in ubuntu :P
[01:11] <pygi> what we'll decide :)
[01:11] <pygi> I know debian stance on it already
[01:11] <Keybuk> we'll probably do what Debian does
[01:11] <Keybuk> unless there's a compelling reason not to
[01:11] <Keybuk> cdrkit is in the list of things to sync
[01:11] <Keybuk> but I want to do removals first
[01:11] <pygi> heh, so we sync cdrkit?
[01:12] <pygi> ok,whatever you say :P
[01:14] <imbrandon> Keybuk, you said the autosyncs are upto-date atm right ?
[01:14] <pygi> Keybuk, and if Sledge = joerg jaspert, then no thanks :P
[01:16] <Keybuk> imbrandon: yes
[01:16] <Keybuk> pygi: no, Sledge = Steve McIntyre (aka. Dirty Uncle Steve), who is a fab guy
[01:17] <pygi> Keybuk, aha, ok then ^_^what can he help me with/tell me about?
[01:18] <Keybuk> he's the debian-cd maintainer
[01:19] <Keybuk> and one of the maintainers of cdrkit
[01:19] <pygi> hm,ok, I'll try to talk with him then
[01:19] <pygi> thanks
[01:20] <Keybuk> he's not an Ubuntu guy, obviously
[01:20] <Keybuk> but he'll know what the state of everything is
[01:20] <pygi> right, I understand
[01:21] <Keybuk> at some point, I'll be asking him what we should do to follow
[01:21] <pygi> I just got a lot of concerns about cdrkit, really
[01:21] <Keybuk> oh?
[01:23] <pygi> they refuse any sensful advise on what's wrong/how to fix it, as far as I am aware in the last few weeks only one developer is active on cdrkit because they want to see what Joerg's (of cdrecord) move will be (will he switch to gpl), they are basicly taking "code snippets"  from gpl'
[01:23] <pygi> gpl'ed parts of cdrtools, etc, etc, etc
[01:23] <pygi> but ofcourse, I am always talking non-sense, so ignore me :)
[01:25] <zul> cool we are the distro of the acccording to linux journal
[01:26] <_ion> Btw, thanks for the great work with libburn+cdrskin.
[01:26] <minghua> zul: distro of the what? :-)
[01:27] <pygi> _ion, let's wait with that until we get dvd support,ok? :P
[01:27] <_ion> minghua: What's wrong with being just the distro of the? :-)
[01:27] <zul> yeah distro of the year
[01:28] <jdong> does that mean the other release in the year wasn't good enough though?
[01:28] <jdong> ;-)
[01:28] <Keybuk> zul: are we on the cover?
[01:28] <pygi> jdong, heh :P
[01:28] <_ion> pygi: Are you using the dvd+rw-tools source, or collaborating with its author?
[01:28] <zul> no unfortunately
[01:28] <pygi> _ion, we aren't using anyone's source
[01:29] <pygi> _ion, everything is from scratch
[01:29] <_ion> pygi: Oh, ok. It's GPL software and seems to work fine.
[01:29] <zul> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9368
[01:30] <pygi> _ion, if you listen to joerg, then you'd notice everything except things he writes is junk :P
[01:30] <pygi> _ion, perhaps, but is bad code-wise, it's based on cdrecord
[01:30] <pygi> _ion, and especially mkisofs, which is such mess of a code that really not many people can understand anything
[01:31] <_ion> pygi: Ok, i see.
[01:31] <_ion> I haven't read its source, so i didn't know. :-)
[01:31] <imbrandon> zul, wow actualy looks like kubuntu , but its labeld ubuntu 
[01:31] <jdong> meh same difference :D
[01:32] <imbrandon> yea it is, its just strange they would mix them both
[01:32] <Keybuk> pygi: what else is there though?
[01:32] <Keybuk> like it or not, cdr* is the only useful set of burning tools for older drives
[01:32] <zul> imbrandon: its all good
[01:33] <pygi> Keybuk, and for newer sadly. For now we don't have a usable solution. I'm just telling in what state are we at linux burning scene.
[01:33] <Keybuk> pygi: dvd+rw-tools seems useful enough for modern crap
[01:34] <Keybuk> at least, it works for me (tm) :p
[01:34] <pygi> Keybuk, bad still inherits bad codebase
[01:34] <pygi> but*
[01:34] <pygi> Keybuk, works for you, but a lot of users have problems
[01:35] <pygi> Keybuk, I do understand that we follow debian, and that we will take their word. I just think something has to be done to ensure that the future will be different.
[01:36] <Keybuk> indeed
[01:36] <Keybuk> but what?
[01:38] <pygi> Allocate resources to writing replacement? The problem I see is that Andy and Joerg in particular made everyone think they don't know anything about scsi, mmc standards, etc, etc
[01:38] <Keybuk> who are the kinds of people that could write replacements?
[01:38] <pygi> I've been able (including Thomas and Lorenzo) to write a usable replacement for data and audio cd 
[01:39] <pygi> including the compatibility layer for cdrecord so no breaking of existing apps until they migrate to the libraries itself
[01:39] <_ion> I've used it, it works. :-)
[01:39] <_ion> (At least with my hardware.)
[01:39] <pygi> Keybuk, we implemented so much stuff WITHOUT standard books, and much drives to test
[01:40] <pygi> we support multi session, tao, -sao, and almost any things you can do with a cd in SVN 
[01:40] <Keybuk> pygi: what kind of state is it in?
[01:40] <pygi> (release date for that is unknown yet tho)
[01:40] <pygi> Keybuk, it's in a state that I could really use at least one set of rainbow books :P
[01:41] <pygi> Keybuk, well, it's rapidly progressing, but I cannot recommend it for serious adoption instead of cdrecord/cdrkit whatever my opinion on those two is
[01:41] <pygi> at least not for now
[01:42] <pygi> Keybuk, getting rainbow books (and I hope I'll get them rather sooner then later) would speed libburn development a lot
[01:42] <pygi> and we are on track for implementing el torito, HFS, and HFS+ for libisofs, then we can write a compatibility layer for mkisofs called "genisofs"
[01:42] <pygi> _ion, you used cdrskin with k3b?
[01:42] <_ion> pygi: From command line.
[01:43] <pygi> _ion, oh, ok, and it worked for you?
[01:43] <_ion> Yes, i had no problems whatsoever.
[01:43] <pygi> _ion, nice, expect me to throw a lot of testing use cases at you soon then :P
[01:43] <_ion> Sure, i'd be glad to help testing.
[01:43] <pygi> nice, thanks
[01:44] <pygi> we especially need help with multi session and tao at this moment
[01:44] <pygi> since they are rather new features
[01:45] <pygi> _ion, my hope is that Brasero 0.5.2 will use new libburn (once it's out) and we can get Brasero in repos with libburn-enabled
[01:46] <pygi> (Brasero 0.5.1 is scheduled soon)
[01:46] <pygi> dunno when can we get new libburn out, since we postpone release date all the time due to a lot of new features :P)
[01:49] <_ion> I only recently moved my burner to a box with X, so i have yet to burn a data CD using GUI tools. I have used Serpentine for burning audio CDs, though, and i was *very* impressed with it.
[01:51] <pygi> _ion, well, let's talk with serpentine folks about porting to libburn :)
[01:51] <pygi> _ion, do they burn to dvd also? because  if yes, not much we can do
[01:51] <_ion> I'm not sure.
[01:53] <_ion> In the "disc capacity" widget it only offers CD sizes.
[01:53] <pygi> _ion, oh, interesting then ^_^
[01:53] <pygi> would benefit both, as I'd get a lot of testing, and they'd get more reliable burning
[01:53] <pygi> _ion, is serpentine written in C?
[01:54] <Burgwork> pygi: python
[01:54] <pygi> Burgwork, right ... we'd need python extensions which I don't have time to write
[01:54] <pygi> and there is also where we can see advantage of a library :P
[01:55] <pygi> we can have ruby, python, perl, whatever bindings
[01:55] <pygi> but anyway,lemme stop about that for tonight:P
[01:56] <pygi> time to do some bug hunting ^_^
[01:57] <_ion> Ruby 
[01:57] <_ion> I could try writing Ruby bindings some day, unless someone else does it first.
[01:58] <wasabi_> Where abouts are the results of the merge these days?
[01:58] <wasabi_> DeveloperResources still list it in ~scott
[01:59] <pygi> _ion, but written in C :P That is, as extension :) So Ruby C api knowledge needed :P
[01:59] <Keybuk> wasabi: merges.ubuntu.com
[01:59] <imbrandon> merges.ubuntu.com ?
[01:59] <_ion> pygi: Yes.
[01:59] <wasabi_> Well that's self-evident
[01:59] <pygi> Keybuk, and it's not all about low level stuff
[01:59] <_ion> pygi: It's quite simple, actually.
[01:59] <pygi> Keybuk, bindings around libraries are needed, and genisofs which is based on already existing libisofs isn't low level at all :)
[02:00] <pygi> (genisofs has yet to be written :P)
[02:00] <Keybuk> pygi: I don't disagree
[02:00] <pygi> _ion, for you, yes :P For me it's rocket science :)
[02:00] <pygi> Keybuk, but I know I'm bothering, so I'd rather stop
[02:00] <pygi> _ion, there is actually one way to burn dvd-r(w) using libburn, but a bit hacky :P
[02:02] <pygi> _ion, anyway, writing ruby bindings right now is not a good idea IHMO,because api is not yet stable
[02:02] <pygi> _ion, we should wait at least until we hit 1.0
[02:04] <pygi> Keybuk, I'm doing as much as I can to advance quickly, much more then it's good for my studies
[02:04] <_ion> pygi: http://ruby-dlx.rubyforge.org/quick_intro_example.xhtml
[02:04] <pygi> _ion, no, I refuse to open the link :P
[02:05] <pygi> _ion, hm, nice actually
[02:05] <pygi> but I still don't have time to write bindings sorry
[02:05] <pygi> too much low level stuff to handle
[02:05] <cge> _ion, you are here. I'm really shocked after reading about how the trevino issue evolved.
[02:06] <_ion> cge: You probably saw http://soijabanaani.net/tmp/the_trevino_story already?
[02:06] <_ion> pygi: I didn't say you should. I might write the bindings some day. :-)
[02:06] <cge> _ion, yes
[02:07] <cge> _ion, someone else posted a link to it on Trevino's about how you had caused them to stop using Linux.
[02:08] <_ion> Heh, right.
[02:08] <cge> _ion, but this is going to blow up sometime when someone does something actually malicious instead of just warning. 
[02:08] <minghua> good for them and good for Linux, IMHO
[02:09] <Keybuk> _ion: he should have kept the wallpaper
[02:10] <_ion> keybuk: That text is written by me.
[02:10] <Keybuk> _ion: ah, well done for taking action
[02:10] <Keybuk> I would have kept the wallpaper and told them that they're lucky you weren't installing other things on their box
[02:11] <_ion> Anyway, he already removed my repository from his list. Of course, the rest of the list is still there and he still tells people to use it.
[02:11] <cge> Keybuk, my proposed method for dealing with it was replacing Trevino's sources.list mangling package with a package that coerced users to reinstall Ubuntu by bugging them about it every time apt ran. But judging from the reaction the wallpaper got, we'd probably be getting death threats if we did that. 
[02:12] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[02:12] <Keybuk> the death threats will be worse when someone really roots their box
[02:13] <Keybuk> and when ubuntu developers refuse to accept bug reports from those people
[02:13] <imbrandon> hrm, i might stick something like the walpaper in my repo
[02:13] <Keybuk> it's very disconcerting seeing cjwatson quit and join :p
[02:14] <cge> imbrandon, has your repo been hit by trevino?
[02:15] <imbrandon> cge, no, well not that i know of, but its still a good idea
[02:15] <minghua> I really contemplated the idea of packaging _ion's wallpaper stuff so that interested repo maintainers can make a similar package easily
[02:16] <_ion> The packages are available for download from http://johan.kiviniemi.name/ubuntu/the_warning_wallpapers/
[02:17] <cge> minghua, if you get hit by Trevino's list, I have a package that breaks his upgrader process, and then warns the user about it every time they run apt-get until they reinstall or cause the postinstall script to stop failing :)
[02:18] <minghua> cge: nah.  I am good hosting, and I doubt I'll provide third-party ubuntu repo ever (since I am MOTU now)
[02:18] <minghua> I would like to use it for my Debian 3rd-party repo though
[02:18] <minghua> (and besides, I am quite afraid of ubuntu users' death threats :-P)
[02:19] <cge> minghua, It only works against Trevino. _ion's background would have to be modified too, but would be better.
[02:19] <minghua> yes, I know he says Ubuntu on his wallpaper
[02:20] <cge> minghua, the package name.
[02:20] <minghua> what I was really interested is the gconf lockdown part
[02:21] <_ion> minghua: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/ubuntu/the_warning_wallpapers/postinst http://johan.kiviniemi.name/ubuntu/the_warning_wallpapers/prerm
[02:22] <minghua> _ion: thanks!
[02:29] <wasabi_> Um. Uploading a new upstream version which isn't present in Debian (waiting on Debian maintainer to respond).  Debian version is like '3-2'. New upstream version is '4'. Proper Ubuntu upload version should be?  I'm guessing 4-0ubuntu1
[02:29] <lifeless> yes
[02:30] <wasabi_> Thanks
[02:31] <imbrandon> lifeless, did you get my query yesterday ?
[02:31] <lifeless> imbrandon: thanks dude, yes I did
[02:31] <imbrandon> cool, just checkin , np :)
[02:33] <wasabi_> Man... searhorse has been breaking debuild's signing for awhile now.
[02:33] <wasabi_> There a fix for this?
[02:34] <pygi> wasabi, manual fix,yes
[02:34] <wasabi_> And it is?
[02:34] <pygi> to remove all references to seahorse from pgp.conf in .gnupg/
[02:34] <wasabi_> blah.
[02:34] <wasabi_> Was hoping there was a way to make it work right. ;)
[02:34] <pygi> open the pgp.conf and just edit it :)
[02:35] <pygi> well, it works right then? :P
[02:35] <pygi> for other things, bother seahorse upstream :P
[03:04] <bluefoxicy> sladen: I got a core dump trying to get espeak to say obscene things about golf
[03:12] <jk-> hi all
[03:14] <Keybuk> jk-: hi!
[03:16] <sladen> bluefoxicy: better file a bug then.
[03:16] <jk-> anyone have a link to documentation about policy for library version numbers? (ie, why libfoo1 rather than libfoo?)
[03:16] <sladen> bluefoxicy: be sure to include the particular obscene phrase
[03:16] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  it was an (attempted) quote by some dude
[03:16] <Keybuk> jk-: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
[03:17] <Keybuk> jk-: specifically Section 8
[03:17] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  I think ... it's ... a stack smash.
[03:17] <jk-> Keybuk: cheers :)
[03:17] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  try espeak -K1
[03:17] <bluefoxicy> (yes, I know -K isn't an option)
[03:17] <bluefoxicy> (and no this is probably not a (useful) security hole)
[03:20] <sladen> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/espeak/+filebug
[03:20] <sladen> and I'm sure that TheMuso will look into fixing it
[03:21] <sladen> or pass it onto the correct people
[03:21] <TheMuso> sladen: What bug?
[03:25] <Telroth_Plushie|> any devs on?
[03:26] <sladen> TheMuso: bluefoxicy is working on filing a bug report that if you pipe "I think ... it's ... a stack smash." | espeak -K1, then espeak seg faults
[03:27] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  yes, filing, I just want to make sure it's not me (I have at least a dozen bugs that were "oops i did something that caused this")
[03:28] <bluefoxicy> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/espeak/+bug/71719
[03:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71719 in espeak "espeak faults on invalid arguments" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[03:29] <sladen> TheMuso: see previous line, and line before that for the bug URL
[03:29] <TheMuso> Well I am pretty sure that the primary author of espeak is a bug contact for the package, so he should see it.
[03:29] <sladen> excellent :)
[03:29] <TheMuso> Yep, he is.
[03:30] <TheMuso> bluefoxicy: Thanks for putting it through the crunch. Twill very like be much better for that.
[03:31] <bluefoxicy> I didn't crunch it, I typo'd trying to -k15 o.o
[03:31] <bluefoxicy> it just happened to throw a fit
[03:31] <bluefoxicy> these unix programs, man I tell you
[03:31] <TheMuso> Right
[03:31] <bluefoxicy> you give them one wrong parameter and it's like the end of the world
[03:31] <bluefoxicy> take `rm -rf /tmp/core-utils-2.15` for example
[03:32] <Telroth_Plushie|> bluefoxicy, yeah, i can't wait until they're like windows programs, which throw a fit even when you give them the right parameters :)
[03:32] <bluefoxicy> if you mistakenly hit enter after that first '/'....
[03:32] <Telroth_Plushie|> bluefoxicy, no
[03:32] <Hobbsee> then you're silly
[03:32] <Telroth_Plushie|> you'll get a permission error
[03:32] <Telroth_Plushie|> because 1) root shell is BAD
[03:32] <bluefoxicy> Telroth_Plushie|:  it will still (eventually) eat your home directory.
[03:32] <Telroth_Plushie|> and there's no sudo
[03:32] <TraceGreen> I compile my kernel myself, when boot, kernel would show loaded driver boot info. How can i set kernel not to show such info?
[03:32] <Hobbsee> hmmm, there's a point
[03:32] <Telroth_Plushie|> bluefoxicy, ah, correct
[03:33] <bluefoxicy> Telroth_Plushie|:  rm -rf'ing root is not a big deal
[03:33] <bluefoxicy> reinstall
[03:33] <bluefoxicy> it's that it crosses into /home that's the problem
[03:33] <Hobbsee> _ion: nice work :
[03:33] <Hobbsee> )
[03:33] <bluefoxicy> (or /var if you're running a server)
[03:34] <Telroth_Plushie|> is there anyone here that can be bothered to put the logitech g15 drivers into edgy repos?
[03:36] <Hobbsee> Telroth_Plushie|: why not get them into the kernel (if they're GPL)
[03:37] <Telroth_Plushie|> they aren't kernel drivers
[03:38] <Telroth_Plushie|> more like libraries for using the keyboard
[03:38] <Telroth_Plushie|> (a server to manage the applets for the screen, etc)
[03:38] <Hobbsee> ah
[03:40] <Telroth_Plushie|> (on a side note, the media key support is already in the kernel/xorg drivers)
[03:47] <Telroth_Plushie|> Hobbsee, anyone you could recommend me to talk to about getting said libraries/drivers into the official repos?
[03:47] <Hobbsee> hmm....
[03:47] <Hobbsee> no idea who the correct person might be
[03:50] <crimsun> edgy's a lost cause; target feisty.
[03:51] <Telroth_Plushie|> i'll settle for either repo.
[03:51] <Telroth_Plushie|> ;)
[03:52] <crimsun> you don't have much of a choice, I'm afraid. Only feisty's open for development.
[03:53] <crimsun> if there are existing packages, you can get them into universe
[03:53] <crimsun> from there, write main inclusion reports as necessary
[03:54] <Telroth_Plushie|> i think feisty would be best.
[03:54] <Telroth_Plushie|> how would i go about getting them added?
[03:54] <crimsun> see #ubuntu-motu's topic
[03:56] <Telroth_Plushie|> thanks.
[03:59] <Keybuk> imbrandon: ping
[04:03] <imbrandon> Keybuk, pong
[04:03] <sharms_> anyone know the proper channels to push / help out with getting grub a graphical splash screen in feisty? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-June/002050.html  and https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-art-grub-splash are the relevant links, but I don't see much movement there
[04:03] <Keybuk> imbrandon: 1000 lines of "I will not forget debian/copyright in my source packages"
[04:03] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:03] <Keybuk> on my desktop by the end of lunch, please
[04:03] <imbrandon> oh shit
[04:03] <imbrandon> kk
[04:03] <Hobbsee> what'd you do that in, imbrandon?
[04:04] <imbrandon> i wondered why it was rejected, fixing now
[04:04] <Hobbsee> obviously he didnt run lintian/linda thru it for sanity
[04:04] <Keybuk> sharms_: we're pretty decided that we don't want a grub graphical splash, unless it's possible to keep the graphical mode through to usplash
[04:04] <Keybuk> imbrandon: yeah, we can't put messages in rejects :-/
[04:04] <imbrandon> no biggie, i'll fix it up now and reupload here in a few
[04:05] <sharms_> Keybuk: yeah I know this isn't the right place to really discuss it, but seems to me if feisty is going all graphical, we don't have much to lose?
[04:05] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, mirage ( a NEW package from Seveas )
[04:05] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[04:06] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee 
[04:07] <Keybuk> sharms_: it would cause an extra mode switch, so paradoxically make everything look more ugly
[04:07] <imbrandon> crap, i just realized i think i left my phone charger in sunnyvale at the hotel
[04:07] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
[04:08] <cge> sharms_, I think it would also have to not be Ubuntu-branded, as that would be awkward for users who are dual booting.
[04:08] <sharms_> imbrandon: most hotels will mail them to you
[04:08] <imbrandon> sharms , yea , i'll call them tomarrow
[04:11] <Amaranth> sharms_: graphical splash breaks on a good number of systems
[04:11] <Amaranth> err, graphical grub splash, i mean
[04:12] <sharms_> Amaranth: wouldn't that be an issue for other distros like fedora and suse?  how do they get around it?
[04:12] <Amaranth> afaik they punt on the issue
[04:12] <Amaranth> they put in the splash broken systems be damned
[04:12] <Amaranth> Seveas: didn't grub splash break for you?
[04:50] <jwhitlark> slow night...
[04:51] <imbrandon> jwhitlark, man i sooooooooo slept through the phone
[04:51] <imbrandon> heh
[04:52] <jwhitlark> imbrandon, no prob.  My sink backed up that day anyway.  You back home?
[04:52] <imbrandon> yea , just getting settled back in
[04:53] <jwhitlark> anyone heard anything interesting about iFolder?
[04:53] <jwhitlark> imbrandon, so what did you do sunday?
[04:54] <imbrandon> slept, caught up from the week before 
[04:54] <imbrandon> lol
[04:54] <imbrandon> there was a blog post about iFolder
[04:54] <jwhitlark> on planet?
[04:54] <imbrandon> on planet yea, it was ubuntu planet or debian planet
[04:55] <jwhitlark> k, i'll look into it.  seems cool.
[04:56] <jwhitlark> of course, it's by novell, so I'll have to check the license carefully...
[04:56] <jwhitlark> lol
[04:56] <imbrandon> heh
[04:56] <jwhitlark> imbrandon, did that key signing work?  
[04:57] <jwhitlark> imbrandon, nevermind, I'll figure out how to check.
[04:57] <imbrandon> ahh i havent looked since i got home
[04:57] <imbrandon> lemme find the slip of paper
[04:57] <imbrandon> and i'll do it now
[04:57] <imbrandon> i still need to do BenC's too sometime
[04:57] <imbrandon> lol
[04:58] <jwhitlark> no rush.  I'm not going to have anything to sign with it until later in the week...
[04:59] <imbrandon> :)
[04:59] <jwhitlark> FeistyFawn, are you the one who gave me the tutorial about preseed?
[04:59] <jwhitlark> brb
[05:04] <jwhitlark> FeistyFawn, are you there?
[05:05] <jwhitlark> imbrandon, they still gonna call it greyskull?
[05:11] <imbrandon> the MOTU council ? probably
[05:11] <imbrandon> jwhitlark, FeistyFawn is one of Seveas's bots
[05:11] <jwhitlark> heh, I'm going to have to go back and rewatch He-Man...
[05:12] <imbrandon> lol
[05:12] <imbrandon> you know there is #ubuntu-motu too correct ?
[05:12] <jwhitlark> imbrandon,  *** FeistyFawn is Dennis Kaarsemaker (n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas)
[05:12] <jwhitlark> hmm.
[05:12] <jwhitlark> no, I didn't.
[05:12] <imbrandon> yea dennis, e.g. Seveas , its one if his bots ( like ubotu and ubugtu ) :)
[05:13] <jwhitlark> heh, just watching for him, or does it do tricks?
[05:13] <imbrandon> that one is meerly for tab completion afaik
[06:13] <sharms_> is it too late to get a spec in for adding history-search-backward and history-search-forward to the bash profile? maybe throw in a history-append shopt also?
[06:29] <sharms_> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/bashimprovement
[06:32] <sladen> sharms_: needs fleshing out
[06:33] <sladen> sharms_: eg. what do those keys already do
[06:33] <sladen> what does 'PROMPT_COMMAND' do
[06:33] <sharms_> sladen: gotcha
[06:33] <sladen> sharms_: what does 'histappend' do?
[06:33] <sladen> is history-search-backward what you already get with Ctrl-R ?
[06:34] <sladen> do all those four need doing, what happens if only the each of them individually?
[06:35] <jk-> so... the cdbs doc says this:
[06:35] <jk-> CFLAGS are for the user to customize. Setting CFLAGS shouldn't override other internal flags used in the package like -I. 
[06:36] <jk-> and so, the cdbs stuff sets CFLAGS (to -g -O2) for all builds
[06:37] <jk-> has anyone come up with a sane way to add required CFLAGS in the makefile ?
[08:54] <arvind_> http://www.atworkonline.it/~bibe/ubuntu/custom-livecd.htm is there a way to edit the grub menu? There seems to be no file in the filesystem.squashfs
[09:39] <sivang> morning
[09:40] <Hobbsee> heya
[09:42] <sivang> hi Hobbsee 
[10:02] <hunger> When will the merging start in earnest for feisty?
[10:03] <Hobbsee> hunger: people have been merging
[10:31] <ttoine> Tonio_: ??
[10:36] <Kream> Hi all
[11:09] <gnomefreak> ok was apt backported to edgy from feisty?
[02:37] <user__> on the ubuntu install cd there is a file called splash.rle how can one modify such file?
[03:43] <jonh_wendell> which package(s) should i install in order to have printf, sprintf, (c functions) docs, manual pages?
[03:45] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:45] <jsgotangco> Hey
[03:46] <bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
[03:48] <Lathiat> jonh_wendell: manpages-dev
[03:51] <jonh_wendell> Lathiat: thanks
[05:28] <Eons> Hi there
[09:20] <Mirv> rodarvus: concerning AcceleratedX, I'd very much like to see consideration about when to enable (not install, but enable) binary driver. it should not be done on eg. all ATI cards, because the binary driver does not even support older Radeons.
[09:21] <rodarvus> Mirv, this is covered by accelerated-x, actually.
[09:21] <Mirv> rodarvus: because many people are of the opinion that the binary drivers are Bad, I'd suggest a compromise where NVIDIA cards will have proprietary driver, while ATI cards open source, because ATI has more properly working open source drivers and 3D effects should work on the open source drivers too
[09:21] <rodarvus> (and this specific case is mentioned on the documentation of this specification)
[09:22] <Mirv> rodarvus: it's not really clear, but yes it's in drafting and good that you are aware of the issues.
[09:22] <ogra> rodarvus, oh, btw, i tried to manually compile the new mesa and ati driver for my radeon 200M ... apparently it doesnt solve the problem ... (or i simply miss patches)
[09:23] <Mirv> rodarvus: also one thing I would like to see mentioned, is the possibility to remove the binary-drivers-by-default in the future, so as we are not going ever and ever in the non-free direction
[09:23] <rodarvus> "The ATI proprietary doesn't supports Composite, and thus, will only be enabled for users with boards that are not supported by the open source 'ati' video driver. For them, 3D acceleration will be enabled, but Composite will be explicitly disabled" (text extracted from the spec)
[09:23] <Mirv> rodarvus: if Nouveau (open source 3D NVIDIA drivers) get good enough for desktop effects, they should be used as default in feisty+1 or feisty+2, even if the performance otherwise would not be 100% of closed dirvers
[09:23] <rodarvus> I believe this is already quite clearly stated, but I'm clearing it up even more.
[09:24] <rodarvus> Mirv, nouveau will be available (but obviously not by default) on Feisty
[09:24] <rodarvus> and if it is stable enough, will be default on feisty+1
[09:24] <Mirv> rodarvus: oh sorry, my brains missed that thing, there's so much stuff on the page
[09:24] <rodarvus> (this was all discussed during the BoF sessions btw)
[09:24] <rodarvus> but thanks for the feedback, anyway :)
[09:24] <Mirv> rodarvus: yes, that's very good to know. in general you are going to get flames from the NVIDIA people when you switch back to the free driver, but you just have to bear it
[09:25] <Mirv> rodarvus: there's a lot of concern about the non-free thing currently going on, and sabdfl's comments have not been clear/helpful enough either.
[09:25] <Mirv> rodarvus: thanks for listening :)
[09:26] <rodarvus> Mirv, no problem
[09:26] <rodarvus> please take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverEducation too
[09:26] <LaserJock> are there any spec reviewers around? I need a review of https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-menus-completion
[09:26] <Burgwork> rodarvus: telling people we are violating their freedom doesn;t really help, sorry :)
[09:26] <rodarvus> we explain on this specification why this specific choice was made, and what else we are doing on this regard
[09:26] <_ion> Wow, i hadn't heard of this Nouveau project before. Very exciting.
[09:27] <rodarvus> LaserJock, reviewers are busily working on this very moment, actually
[09:27] <rodarvus> not sure when they'll get the chance to review your spec, but hopefully soon
[09:47] <ogra> pitti, thats the lib we're missing for pulse: http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/libasyncns/
[10:48] <Keybuk> wow
[10:48] <Keybuk> no syncs today
[10:50] <kmon_> errr... I know this is not really the place to ask, but I've read in a planet kde blog about uds-mtv that ati/amd is thinking on HOW to release specs for their graphics cards. Is that a rumour or is it real?
[10:51] <Burgwork> kmon_: that comes from Keith Packard, one of the lead X hackers
[10:53] <kmon_> so I imagine he has good sources of information...
[10:55] <kmon_> I was thinking about selling my x1600 card... but I gess I could wait
[10:55] <ajmitch> even if it happens, it'd be awhile before there were useful drivers
[10:55] <ajmitch> hi BenC 
[10:55] <BenC> ajmitch: hey
[10:57] <kmon_> ajmitch: well... I've read that dave jones has 2D acc. code for the r5xx drivers, but can't release it due to a NDA
[10:58] <kmon_> sorry... I meant dave airlies
[10:59] <Arador> kmon_: could you paste the URL where you read that ?
[10:59] <kmon_> Arador: http://airlied.livejournal.com/31180.html
[11:00] <Arador> thanks!
[11:03] <_ion> Hehe. http://www.whiprush.org/2006/11/from_the_cant_p.html
[11:06] <gouchi> Hi
[11:06] <gouchi> does the current Edgy kernel contain bcm4x patch for CM43XX PCI-E Support ?
[11:07] <plugwash> are there any plans to merge gaim 2.0.0beta5 for feisty?
[11:07] <Burgwork> gouchi: it contains bcm43xx
[11:07] <gouchi> https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/bcm43xx-dev/2007-April/001814.html
[11:07] <pygi> plugwash, won't gaim 2.0 be released during feisty cycle? :)
[11:07] <gouchi> Burgwork : don't know when the patch has been published
[11:07] <Burgwork> gaim 2. 0 was supposed to be released ages ao
[11:07] <pygi> Burgwork, true
[11:07] <pygi> they have some internal problems, as always
[11:07] <minghua> strange to see a mailing list URL indicating it's from April 2007
[11:08] <gouchi> and patch for 2.6.18 kernel : ftp://lwfinger.dynalias.org/patches/
[11:08] <pygi> minghua, you mean you haven't heard about cool new invention? :P
[11:08] <Mithrandir> minghua: why?  It's just a misconfigured mailman installation.
[11:09] <minghua> your mean time machine?  of course I heard about it.  just need some time to adjust. :-P
[11:09] <gouchi> minghua : yep that's why I don't know when the patch has been published
[11:09] <plugwash> pygi i wouldn't bet on it, the gaim devs seem to like the freedom to keep breaking api/abi compatibility
[11:10] <pygi> plugwash, you mean the main dev which acts like he's god given? :P
[11:10] <minghua> Mithrandir: err... other than I don't manage many mailman lists and don't seem it often, no.
[11:10] <plugwash> pygi i don't watch in enough detail to tell
[11:10] <pygi> plugwash, but brb in a sec ^_^
[11:10] <minghua> (I suspect a user MTA misconfiguration than mailman misconfiguration, though)
[11:11] <plugwash> all i know is that moving from one gaim beta to the next usually means breakage for custom protocol plugins
[11:11] <minghua> or did Mithrandir mean mailman can be configured to refuse mails from future date?
[11:12] <Mithrandir> minghua: no, it's a misconfiguration of the archival plugin where it's set to use the time from the user's machine instead of when it passes through mailman
[11:14] <minghua> Mithrandir: I see, thanks for explaining
[11:32] <admin123> can I invoke ubiquity partitioner fromt he commandline?
[11:33] <admin123> some docs on partman??
[11:34] <sladen> admin123: perhaps you want to use gpartman directly?
[11:36] <admin123> allow me to explain. I'm creating a recovery cd, for almost 500 ubuntu computers. I need to achive the following: - autopartition disks(perhaps some easy program for that can be easly automated) - mount the partition (ok i can write simple code that will do that) - restore the biggbackuptarbal -installgrub(cand this be done without chrooting in?)
[11:37] <mario_> admin123: you should talk to sivang about that
[11:37] <mario_> he has plans to implement *something* just not yet now ^_^
[11:37] <Burgwork> admin123: why not use kickstart that the alternate installer
[11:37] <mario_> feisty+1 or even +2
[11:39] <fabbione> pitti: ping?
[11:39] <pitti> fabbione: pong
[11:40] <fabbione> pitti: any news about libvirt?
[11:40] <sladen> admin123: as Burgwork says, if you're doing automated installs, us the existing infrastructure (kickstart/preseeding), you don't want the GUI to be getting in the way
[11:40] <pitti> argh
[11:44] <admin123> sladen, kickstart, I assume it works with the livecd to? I made modifcations in the squashfs.filesystem etc..
[11:44] <gicmo> hey hey pitti
[11:45] <pitti> hi gicmo
[11:45] <mjg59> pitti: Can I wave main inclusion stuff at you, or is now a bad time?
[11:46] <pitti> mjg59: I'll have a discussion with keescook now, then I'm going to process the queue
[11:46] <mjg59> pitti: Rocking, thanks
[11:46] <mjg59> pitti: Good to know :)
[11:46] <pitti> (just bitching)
[11:46] <mjg59> It works fine on all the x86 I can get my hands on, but my only PPC is running breezy
[11:46] <pitti> mjg59: so has the compiz vs. beryl question been decided?
[11:46] <gicmo> and /me hides from the beryl hackers
[11:47] <mjg59> pitti: Nope
[11:47] <sladen> admin123: the best thing would probably be to make a package that does your modification/customisations and install that onto each machines that you admin
[11:47] <mjg59> pitti: Is rodarvus around anywhere?
[11:47] <pitti> should
[11:47] <pitti> mjg59: probably in the meeting in the other room
[11:47] <pitti> mjg59: shall I ask him to ping you when I see him?
[11:47] <mjg59> pitti: Please
[11:48] <pitti> willdo
[11:48] <mjg59> pitti: Could do with talking to him about acceleratedx. It's still quite misleading in places.
[11:48] <Burgwork> admin123: if you are using GNOME, you can edit the users session with sabayon and pessulus
[11:52] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, pitti hello ;)
[11:52] <AlinuxOS> how are you ? ;)