[12:23] <fumbalah> nixternal: How did dinner come out?
[12:23] <nixternal> it smells ok so far ;)
[12:23] <crimsun> ask again in 5 hours.
[12:24] <nixternal> haha
[12:26] <fumbalah> lol
[12:26] <fumbalah> Very nice
[12:26] <fumbalah> I am having no luck finding work x.x
[12:26] <fumbalah> Hosting Industry is not where its at
[12:28] <fumbalah> which really sucks, cause thats where I know
[12:52] <fumbalah> Have you eaten any yet or did you just burn it?
[12:53] <nixternal> just burnt it
[12:53] <nixternal> i think i can scrap that part off 
[12:53] <nixternal> hahaha
[12:53] <nixternal> dude, why can't women dig ramen
[12:53] <fumbalah> lol
[12:53] <fumbalah> I could live off the stuff
[12:53] <Burgwork> nixternal: are you cooking for family or to impress?
[12:54] <nixternal> neither now
[12:54] <nixternal> cooking cuz im hungry
[12:54] <nixternal> let me go check the damage a little more
[12:58] <fumbalah> haha, get something spicy
[01:02] <dsas> heh, "i have yet to mess up a roast" - jinxed yourself!
[01:08] <fumbalah> lol, that had to be it
[01:51] <nixternal> it is good
[01:51] <nixternal> whew
[01:52] <nixternal> the glaze that i hacked together burned a little at the bottom and on the sides, but it is oh so good
[02:12] <fumbalah> lol
[02:12] <fumbalah> Rightious
[02:43] <robotgeek> my new quick to make stuff is pasta!
[02:50] <robotgeek> this is where we hang out, Bosonator 
[02:51] <fumbalah> hi robotgeek, hi Bosonator 
[02:53] <robotgeek> hey fumbalah , how is it going?
[02:53] <Bosonator> Hi fumbalah
[02:53] <fumbalah> Pretty good
[02:53] <fumbalah> Proofreading the Desktop guide @ the moment
[02:54] <Bosonator> How many people work on this?
[02:55] <fumbalah> Bosonator: there are 24 people total on the team
[02:55] <fumbalah> but only about 10 or so tops are active
[02:56] <Bosonator> Cool. And what kind of background do most people have?
[02:56] <fumbalah> robotgeek: I'm done proofreading the desktop guide, do you have anything you need me to read?
[02:57] <robotgeek> fumbalah: wow. not really, fumbalah.
[02:57] <fumbalah> Bosonator: You really dont have to have one, as long as you have some experience with Ubuntu and can read, I think they can use you
[02:58] <fumbalah> Bosonator: I suggest you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam as well
[02:58] <Bosonator> fumbalah: I'm already there!
[03:00] <fumbalah> Bosonator: What else do you want to know?
[03:01] <Bosonator> I'll just take a look through the DocumentationTeam site first, then go from there.
[03:02] <fumbalah> Alright
[03:02] <fumbalah> If you have any questions at all, feel free to ask anyone
[03:02] <Bosonator> Thanks a bunch. See you around!
[04:15] <fumbalah> We're totally going to try setting ub a lab with edubuntu at my school :)
[09:03] <mdke> moin
[09:03] <Liz> morning
[09:05] <Madpilot> hi mdke 
[09:05] <Burgundavia> hey mdke, Liz, Madpilot
[09:05] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia 
[09:06] <Liz> hiya
[09:47] <Burgundavia> oh?
[09:47] <mdke> just sending some mammoth emails
[09:47] <mdke> now I can get ready for work
[09:47] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:48] <Burgundavia> anyway, I need to sleep
[09:56] <mdke> night
[01:33] <fumbalah> Hiya
[03:19] <fumbalah> Good morning
[03:21] <fumbalah> Hows everyone doing?
[04:24] <nixternal> hiya jjesse!
[04:24] <nixternal> howdy fumbalah!
[04:24] <jjesse> morning, heading to cllass where i don't have inetner
[04:24] <nixternal> my dog got very bad last night..not looking good right now
[04:24] <nixternal> wow
[04:25] <nixternal> hopefully a typing class ;)
[04:25] <jjesse> grin
[04:25] <nixternal> hehe
[04:25] <jjesse> consulting class
[04:25] <nixternal> fun
[04:25] <jjesse> not really
[04:25] <nixternal> i enjoy consulting
[04:25] <jjesse> 8am to 6:30 pm
[04:25] <nixternal> ow
[04:26] <nixternal> where at in LA are you?
[04:26] <jjesse> the airport marriot
[04:27] <nixternal> where are the classes at?
[04:28] <jjesse> same place
[04:29] <nixternal> thats not to bad
[04:29] <nixternal> allows you to sleep in a little
[04:38] <fumbalah> nixternal: Anything we can do to help withh the dog?
[04:44] <nixternal> nothing that i know of..she is at the vet now, so we are waiting to hear back...we told them to let us know if she is suffering at all, because we don't want her to
[04:44] <nixternal> i appreciate the offer
[04:50] <robotgeek> nixternal: sorry to hear about the dog
[04:50] <robotgeek> nixternal: i spoke to him yesterday on irc, and pointed him to the right places
[04:50] <nixternal> thanks robotgeek! for both ;)
[04:51] <nixternal> i thought i seen somone new around yesterday, but was in and out all day keeping an eye on the pooch
[04:51] <robotgeek> fumbalah is also looking for something to do :)
[04:51] <nixternal> oh, we will have plenty to do soon enough ;)
[04:52] <robotgeek> cool. i gotta get back to work. cya in the evening or so
[04:52] <nixternal> have fun ;p
[05:00] <fumbalah> yea nixternal there was a guy last night, i tried to apoint himin the right direction
[08:25] <shwag> what is the difference between  wiki.ubuntu.com  and help.ubuntu.com/community ?
[08:27] <shwag> it appears the Documentation Teams doc is out of date. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda   If the meetings are every two weeks, then why does the page say the next meeting is on 6 September 2006 1900UTC ?
[08:27] <shwag> not a rhetorical question.
[08:28] <LaserJock> the difference is that help.ubuntu.com/community is for help
[08:28] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com is for development work, specs, team organization, etc.
[08:28] <shwag> ok
[08:28] <LaserJock> the MeetingAgenda is indeed out of date
[08:28] <LaserJock> we need to set up another meeting
[08:29] <shwag> LaserJock: not trying to be insulting, but it seems to me that ubuntu documentation is not as good of quality as gentoo. I also recognize that ubuntu is a relatively young project compared to gentoo.
[08:30] <LaserJock> well, we need people to write :-)
[08:30] <shwag> Back when I was a gentoo head, I used to work on the documentation team.
[08:30] <LaserJock> cool
[08:30] <shwag> Lately Ive been updated server docs on help.ubuntu.com for  Ruby on Rails.
[08:30] <LaserJock> how many people were in that team?
[08:31] <shwag> I beleive there were about 4 main people who ran it, one who was in charge. Lots of contributors.
[08:31] <shwag> But I think what made things grow so well is the way that most gentoo documentation is structured.
[08:31] <LaserJock> we have a fair amount of "main" people
[08:31] <LaserJock> not a ton of contributors
[08:31] <shwag> LaserJock: yah...the ubuntu advanced user community is still growing. A lot of the best linux guys I know are still in gentoo.
[08:32] <LaserJock> we also have 4 "flavors" to write for
[08:32] <shwag> Im on ubuntu now because I know how big of a pain gentoo can be to manage security updates on tens of machines.
[08:32] <LaserJock> but yeah, we've looked a fair amount at the gentoo documentation
[08:32] <pygi> shwag, to note about someone beying "best linux guys" is far from fair
[08:32] <pygi> being*
[08:32] <LaserJock> pygi: he was talking about people he knew
[08:33] <shwag> pygi: just saying as far as the ones that I know.
[08:33] <pygi> LaserJock, I understand :)
[08:33] <shwag> I keep telling them Ubuntu though. ;)  and I was the one that told them gentoo to start with. doh!
[08:33] <LaserJock> I'm a recovering gentoo-er too ;-)
[08:34] <shwag> LaserJock: have you noticed a difference in structure of the documentation between gentoo and ubuntu though ?
[08:34] <shwag> Gentoo has that whole gentoo handbook thing.
[08:34] <pygi> shwag, we also have handbooks
[08:35] <shwag> And whats the whole deal with that ubuntuguide project... why couldnt they be part of the ubuntu documentation?
[08:35] <pygi> shwag, ubuntuguide has a lot of flaws
[08:36] <shwag> pygi: yah...but it also has a lot of good things too. Its the first place to go for a good sources.list
[08:36] <Burgwork> we have tried to reach them
[08:36] <pygi> shwag, uh, no, not really
[08:36] <shwag> Burgwork: what do you mean?
[08:37] <Burgwork> we tried to get them to see the problems, but haven't had much luck
[08:37] <shwag> Burgwork: I talked to the ubuntuguide owner, and I have an editors account on the site.
[08:37] <Burgwork> ah
[08:39] <shwag> When you click on DOCS on the top gentoo page, it takes you here: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/   Here there are categories of documentation to find what you might be looking for.
[08:40] <shwag> again on a subcategory like System Administration, http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/?catid=sysadmin , It lists all the sysadmin docs off.  Maybe a structure should be built into help.ubuntu.com like this...so people can navigate to find what is available.
[08:40] <Burgwork> there is a long term to plan to fix that
[08:40] <Burgwork> basically merge the shipped docs and the wiki together
[08:41] <shwag> It took me a while to figure out that I could look for stuff by typing either  help.ubuntu.com/community/mysearch  or wiki.ubuntu.com/mysearch  to find stuff.
[08:41] <shwag> and I still dont have a list of what is available.
[08:42] <shwag> Burgwork: long term plan?
[08:43] <shwag> I think these are the reasons people are not contributing to the wiki's, and are opting instead to post to their own blog or on ubuntuguide.org.
[08:44] <shwag> People have no way of finding stuff on the wiki's, so it becomes a page url, just like anywhere else, so there is no benefit of using the wiki.
[08:45] <shwag> Not trying to rant, though it sounds like it. Just saying my thoughts. Figure if I am gonna start doing something about it, I ought to talk to the doc team first.
[08:46] <shwag> Burgwork: is there a plan I should cordinate with, or can I start my own effort ?
[08:47] <pygi> shwag, I'd say find someone willing to work with you, and coordinate with us whatever needs work
[08:47] <pygi> it's a hell of a work when you are doing something ... especially if it goes against somebodies will
[08:48] <shwag> Everyone is volunteers ? Who actually works for Canonical then ?
[08:53] <pygi> shwag, ok, I got confused by that two questions :P
[08:53] <shwag> pygi: as far as the documentation team I was thinking...looks like everyone is volunteers.
[08:54] <shwag> pygi: Does shuttleworth support documentation for ubuntu in any way ?
[08:54] <pygi> what a question :P
[08:55] <shwag> I just assumed he would, but it seems no, because the team page says it is all volunteers.
[08:55] <dsas> shwag: It depends on how you mean support
[08:56] <dsas> shwag: Canonical provide all of the infrastructure used, sponsor people to go to developer summits etc
[08:58] <shwag> dsas: doesnt canonical have like 80 full time employees ?
[08:58] <dsas> shwag: Not a clue. 
[09:03] <Burgwork> yes it does
[09:04] <Burgwork> but only about 15 work on the distro
[09:04] <Burgwork> and there are no paid documentation editors
[09:05] <shwag> Burgwork: So what do all the actual employees do ?
[09:05] <Burgwork> LP is a bunch (30+)
[09:05] <Burgwork> bzr is 5 or so
[09:05] <Burgwork> general random managment, etc. is about 10+15
[09:05] <Burgwork> 10-15 rather
[09:05] <Burgwork> managment also includes ISV and partner people
[09:06] <Burgwork> support is 5 or 6
[09:06] <dsas> isn't there a handful of support staff too?
[09:06] <Burgwork> those are rough numbers
[09:07] <Burgwork> but back to what you can do
[09:07] <Burgwork> if you want to edit the wiki, please dive in
[09:07] <shwag> LP ?
[09:08] <pygi> shwag, launchpad
[09:15] <shwag> Burgwork: im editing more and more. thanks.
[09:16] <mdke> evening
[09:24] <LaserJock> shwag: Canonical supports the doc team with a server doc.u.c and help.u.c
[09:25] <shwag> launchpad is kind of confusing to use.
[09:25] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:25] <LaserJock> it's a work in progress
[09:28] <nixternal> wheee
[09:28] <LaserJock> what?
[09:29] <nixternal> im tired
[09:29] <LaserJock> first it was oy! then it's wheee
[09:30] <LaserJock> shwag: so it sounds like you are interested in server documentation?
[09:30] <LaserJock> nixternal: how's the puppy? :/
[09:30] <nixternal> in the poochpital
[09:31] <nixternal> i think the birth of my daughter was chaper
[09:31] <nixternal> cheapter
[09:31] <nixternal> argh
[09:31] <nixternal> cheaper
[09:32] <shwag> LaserJock: Im employeed as a Server administrator, and I have successfully pulled off getting some servers onto ubuntu. (we have a hundred redhat boxes.)  I did that by actually getting stuff to work,..with ubuntu. Imagine that. So yah, Ill be spending roughly 40 hours a week doing ubuntu server stuff. I come from 2 years full time gentoo server admin position. Also php, python, ruby rails dev on the side.
[09:33] <LaserJock> shwag: so have you had a read through the Ubuntu Server Guide?
[09:35] <shwag> LaserJock: I see it, but It is fairly basic and doesn't cover any of the stuff Ive needed docs for.
[09:36] <shwag> LaserJock: one basic thing that has thrown me off previously in ubuntu was  useradd  vs adduser
[09:36] <LaserJock> mhm
[09:36] <shwag> useradd ..well, doesnt really work.  adduser works great.
[09:37] <shwag> I dont see adding users as a topic on the server guide.
[09:37] <LaserJock> well, I was just reading through the Gentoo docs
[09:37] <LaserJock> shwag: then send a patch :-)
[09:37] <nixternal> useradd is the original *nix way where you have to sling a bunch of switches with it, and then came the awesome adduser where you just followed along
[09:37] <shwag> nixternal: i tried useradd -k  and the -k  didnt even work!
[09:37] <nixternal> interesting...useradd works great for me
[09:37] <shwag> sorry...not -k   -m
[09:38] <LaserJock> I'm finding a lot of content in the Gentoo docs, but they seem sort of random
[09:38] <shwag> for make a home directory too, ya know.
[09:38] <nixternal> hmm
[09:38] <nixternal> try --create-home=/home/blah?
[09:39] <nixternal> hmm.. -m is if there is a directory already there, i think -d is what you want to use to create the directory
[09:39] <shwag> adduser  does everything if need...maybe even more, but asking all those silly user questions. but this isnt really a doc issue. more of a basic utils packaging issue.
[09:39] <nixternal> no im backwards
[09:40] <shwag> nixternal: -m on gentoo creates a home directory.
[09:40] <nixternal> ya, it is -m
[09:40] <shwag> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=11
[09:40] <nixternal> i was backwards there
[09:40] <nixternal> anywho, im gonna take a nap for a few
[09:41] <LaserJock> nixternal: yeah, get some sleep dude
[09:41] <nixternal> there isn't much going on around here right now anywho
[09:42] <shwag> on gentoo...adduser is just a symbolic link to useradd.
[09:55] <shwag> cool link. http://www.red-bean.com/dav/presentations/Poisonous-people.pdf
[09:58] <LaserJock> yes, it is interesting
[10:17] <fumbalah> Hows everyone doing?
[10:18] <mdke> well thanks
[10:18] <mdke> am playing with google adsense
[10:20] <fumbalah> cool, I'm thinking about adding that when I start up my company
[10:21] <mdke> I'm curious. Hardly anyone visits my website so we'll see how it works
[10:21] <fumbalah> yea
[10:21] <fumbalah> I'm trying to come up with a good name to get the ball rolling
[10:23] <shwag> woh...https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TitleIndex  takes a long time to load. Wonder if it can be cached.
[10:23] <shwag> or the query optimized.
[10:23] <mdke> probably. Ask in #moin, but bear in mind the version running on the Ubuntu wiki is very out of date
[10:25] <LaserJock> mdke: are doc.u.c and help.u.c on the same server?
[10:25] <mdke> no
[10:26] <mdke> wholly different countries in fact (see ping)
[10:31] <nixternal> dude, im a poisonous person!!! ZOMGPONIEZ!!!
[10:31] <fumbalah> Dude, anyone got any cool names for a company
[10:31] <nixternal> whats wrong with "zomgponiez"?
[10:32] <fumbalah> lol
[10:32] <fumbalah> little hard to pronounce