[12:52] <Mithrandir> dholbach: please tell labyrinth upstream to use PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG rather than AC_CHECK_PROG; apart from that it looks good.
[12:54] <ajmitch> hello Mithrandir 
[12:55] <Mithrandir> hiya Andrew
[12:56] <dholbach> Mithrandir: congratulations on getting cracking on the NEW queue
[12:56] <dholbach> Mithrandir: WTF!?! What happened to tfheen?
[12:56] <Mithrandir> dholbach: lucky me!
[12:57] <Mithrandir> dholbach: haha. :-)
[12:57] <Mithrandir> it's Mithrandir now; tfheen just hangs around
[12:57] <dholbach> tfheen: SLACKER!
[12:57] <infinity> tfheen's a jerk anyway.  Mithrandir's a more relaxed guy to deal with.
[12:58] <imbrandon> heh
[12:58] <imbrandon> heya fellas
[12:59] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee 
[12:59] <ajmitch> imbrandon: when are you going to get those podcasts going?
[01:00] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, can you manualy promote libmtp so amarok can get out of depwait on the buildd's ( pitti said upload THEN poke )
[01:00] <imbrandon> ajmitch, hrm when me and whiprush and sladen get off our hineys
[01:00] <imbrandon> lol
[01:00] <imbrandon> hopefully this week
[01:00] <LaserJock> ohhhh, podcasts :-)
[01:00] <ajmitch> ah, a round tuit problem
[01:01] <imbrandon> yup
[01:01] <imbrandon> after that jokeosher showing at UDS i think i might try that this time round instead of audacity
[01:01] <ajmitch> yeah, I've got to get into jokosher for some local radio stuff
[01:02] <ajmitch> we've been using audacity
[01:02] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
[01:02] <imbrandon> yea audacity is good , but clunky
[01:03] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: let me see if I can manage that without breaking anything.
[01:03] <imbrandon> hehe thanks
[01:04] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: you have powers for queue prodding now as well?
[01:04] <Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir 
[01:04] <imbrandon> brb phone
[01:05] <Burgwork> keescook: yay for having inkscape dev on staff!
[01:05] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: indeed, I do.
[01:05] <Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee 
[01:06] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, once thats done soyuz should pick those back up for rebuild correct ?
[01:07] <imbrandon> ( since they are in depwait now )
[01:07] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: yes, iirc.
[01:07] <imbrandon> k cool
[01:09] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: there, promoted
[01:10] <ajmitch> is libvirt promoted yet, or is it still blocked on xen?
[01:11] <Mithrandir>    libvirt | 0.1.8-0ubuntu1 | feisty/universe | source
[01:11] <ajmitch> fabbione: yeah, it's been reviewed & approved at least
[01:12] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it's a B-D for redhat.-cluster-suite and approved by pitti
[01:12] <fabbione> ajmitch: i know
[01:12] <fabbione> ajmitch: i was right behind pitti to make sure ;)
[01:12] <ajmitch> no pressure on pitti :)
[01:16] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: when you promote things, make sure you edit the MIQueue wiki page and move the source to approved
[01:17] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: already done.
[01:19] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, Keybuk thanks guys
[01:22] <Keybuk> is a mnepton different from a mneptok?
[01:23] <ogra> one is wagging its tail, the other isnt ?
[01:25] <Mithrandir> dholbach: why does telepathy-sharp include both a LICENSE and a COPYING file?
[01:26] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I can't tell you - I didn't look at it.
[01:26] <Mithrandir> dholbach: indeed.  I just imagined tht.
[01:26] <Mithrandir> that, even
[01:26] <Mithrandir> giskard: ^^ ?
[01:26] <dholbach> Mithrandir: he might be in bed already :)
[01:27] <Mithrandir> dholbach: he'll probably read scrollback
[01:27] <dholbach> *nod*
[01:29] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: they might be different
[01:29] <Keybuk> some of the telepathy stuff is dual licenced
[01:29] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: both looked like MIT to me, just different line breaks.
[01:41] <ogra> seb128, checking for GNOME_SCREENSAVER_DIALOG... configure: error: Package requirements (libglade-2.0 >= 2.5.0
[01:41] <ogra>         gtk+-2.0 >= 2.7.0
[01:41] <ogra>         libgnomekbdui >= 0.1) were not met:
[01:41] <ogra> No package 'libgnomekbdui' found
[01:42] <ogra> do you have that packaged already ?
[01:43] <seb128> ogra: no, I'll have a look at packaging it soon
[01:44] <ogra> thanks
[01:44] <ogra> i'll wait with g-s-s for it then
[01:44] <seb128> k
[01:45] <imbrandon> Keybuk, afaik they are both kurt, one he uses for official support, one for "goofing off" iirc
[01:49] <Burgwork> umm, oops. How did this one slip by: ubuntu-artwork ships a cc-nc background
[01:50] <jdong> gasp
[01:50] <Hobbsee> a what?
[01:50] <Burgwork> creative commons- non-commercial
[01:51] <Hobbsee> oh right
[01:51] <Burgwork> one of the biggest mistakes the CC made, IMHO
[01:51] <dholbach> Burgwork: which file is under that copyright? where does it say that?
[01:51] <ajmitch> Burgwork: that's worrying
[01:51] <Burgwork> only one, just checked the copyright
[01:51] <Burgwork> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-November/003522.html
[01:51] <Burgwork> /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-artwork/copyright
[01:53] <dholbach> that's sharealike 2.5
[01:53] <Burgwork> no, it is Non-Comm ShareAlike
[01:53] <dholbach> in ubuntu-artwork
[01:53] <Burgwork> which prevents selling of it
[01:54] <elkbuntu> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/
[01:55] <dholbach> that file is part of edgy-community-wallpapers
[01:56] <Burgwork> right, but we are still shipping it as part of dapper in ubuntu-artwork
[01:56] <Burgwork> so we need a quick relicensing 
[01:57] <Burgwork> want me to take it up with the author?
[01:57] <LaserJock> heh
[01:57] <Burgwork> LaserJock: stop imaging baseball bats :)
[01:58] <LaserJock> "can I, can I, please, please"
[01:58] <elkbuntu> agreed, a sawn-off is more amusing
[01:58] <Burgwork> a lot of artists use -nc because of this fear int eh art community about "commercial exploitation"
[01:58] <Burgwork> I have quite a few debates with art teams for various games over it
[01:59] <ajmitch> Burgwork: ie, they want only a few people to use it - rather silly
[01:59] <jdub> commercially exploited by... ubuntu!
[02:00] <ajmitch> jdub: those evil corporate vultures
[02:03] <Burgwork> dholbach: hmm, you are right. At any rate, it might be a good idea to issue an update to dapper to fix it
[02:04] <dholbach> Burgwork: I'll need to have a closer look
[02:04] <dholbach> brb
[02:04] <Burgwork> dholbach: shall I file a bug?
[02:04] <dholbach> Burgwork: no, not necessary, thanks.
[02:04] <Burgwork> sounds good
[02:07] <imbrandon> umm afaik canonical dosent sell ubuntu, it sells support
[02:08] <imbrandon> ( and the 1.50 for the edgy shipit covers the media , not the content , and is stated that way )
[02:08] <Burgwork> imbrandon: read the license text
[02:08] <imbrandon> i know what the CC non-comercial lic is
[02:08] <Burgwork> "You may not exercise any of the rights granted to You in Section 3 above in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation."
[02:09] <imbrandon> right and ubuntu does neither
[02:09] <Burgwork> but there are lots of companies that do
[02:09] <imbrandon> they support ubuntu, they dont sell it
[02:09] <Burgwork> what if you sell an Ubuntu cd?
[02:09] <LaserJock> imbrandon: but it's still not DFSG free
[02:10] <imbrandon> LaserJock, we have LOTS of things that are not dfsg free
[02:10] <imbrandon> we arent debian
[02:10] <jdub> canonical sell ubuntu CDs via amazon
[02:10] <ogra> and DVDs :)
[02:10] <LaserJock> imbrandon: but it's still an important consideration
[02:10] <mjg59> imbrandon: There should be nothing on the CDs that can't be sold
[02:10] <jdub> NC is a plague
[02:10] <imbrandon> amazon makes and sells those, its says so on the page
[02:10] <mjg59> imbrandon: Because, well, people sell the CDs
[02:10] <rmjb> and jdub throws a wrench
[02:10] <Burgwork> imbrandon: the only thing we have that isn't DFSG-free, afaik, is the various CC licenses
[02:10] <jdub> imbrandon: so they're magically allowed to break the NC?
[02:10] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: and GFDL.
[02:11] <Burgwork> and that
[02:11] <imbrandon> i'm not saysing its not bad, but its not a ubuntu issue, that is amazons problem and anyone else that sells it, we should fix it yes, but as far as "ZOMG WE"RE BREAKING TEH LAW" is wrong
[02:11] <jdub> NC == "fuck you and the horse you rode in on"
[02:11] <elkbuntu> oh how i love watching licence compatability debates... popcorn anyone?
[02:11] <mjg59> imbrandon: Dude, it is *entirely* our problem if we're providing things to people that we know are going to sell it
[02:11] <Burgwork> imbrandon: if we are a original distributors of it, we should fix it
[02:12] <mjg59> We even state that everything in main can be sold
[02:12] <jdub> imbrandon: it's not breaking the law; it's breaking our promise to distributors such that they are breaking the terms of the license.
[02:12] <imbrandon> Burgwork, i just said yes we should fix it, but its not zomg we are teh evil now
[02:12] <mjg59> imbrandon: No, we explicitly say that everything in main and restricted can be sold.
[02:12] <Burgwork> apparently it has been fixed in Edgy
[02:12] <imbrandon> jdub, right, i totaly agree its no right, thats not my point
[02:13] <mjg59> imbrandon: If it turns out that that's not true, but if someone gets into trouble because of the guarantee we made them, then we *are* evil
[02:13] <jdub> but that is everyone else's point :-)
[02:13] <imbrandon> mjg59, wow really, i've seen that implied but never in writing, i could be wrong
[02:14] <jdub> Ubuntu: Linux for Human Jailbait
[02:14] <mjg59> imbrandon: All application software in both main and restricted must meet the following requirements: Must allow redistribution. Your right to sell or give away the software alone or as part of an aggregate software distribution is important because: (etc)
[02:14] <mjg59> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing
[02:14] <jdub> hey, that doesn't have "must not make baby jesus cry"
[02:15] <elkbuntu> jdub, because that would rule out the consumption of kittens and puppies
[02:15] <imbrandon> :) like i said i could have been wrong, my appologies, anyhow its our promis and should be fixed yes, but its not against the law as was first implied as i took it, thus my statements
[02:15] <Burgwork> well, actually it is
[02:15] <ajmitch> jdub: partly because large chunks of main would be affected
[02:15] <jdub> ajmitch: haw haw.
[02:15] <Burgwork> if you are not distributing it under the license, you are distributing it under standard copyright
[02:15] <Burgwork> which leaves you sol
[02:16] <jdub> imbrandon: breaking NC -> falls back to copyright -> can't distribute -> illegal -> meet my friend bubba
[02:16] <octan> hi all.. 
[02:17] <jdub> it's a short fall from freedom to the intimate company of a large bald man
[02:17] <imbrandon> heh
[02:18] <Burgwork> imbrandon: this is what SCO discovered and why they stopped trying to kill the GPL
[02:19] <octan> the kernel. does it have support for the iptables "owner" modules henc ->iptables - m owner --cmd-owner name fooblah,, stuff ? do anyone know?
[02:19] <jdub> darl mcbride, meet bubba mclubemeup
[02:19] <imbrandon> lol
[02:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: did you already promote libvirt to main?
[02:28] <Mithrandir> fabbione: no, but somebody else might have.
[02:29] <mnepton> jdub: was that an offer? because i could probably change my return flight plans if Pia is going to be out of town ....
[02:30] <jdub> mnepton: are you darl mcbride or bubba mclubemeup?
[02:30] <jdub> I THINK NOT.
[02:30] <fabbione> jdub: hey dude!
[02:30] <mnepton> jdub: tease.
[02:31] <jdub> yo fabbione!
[02:31] <fabbione> jdub: my dog has no nose!
[02:33] <kylem> yarr.
[02:35] <mnepton> arr?
[02:39] <jdub> fabbione: how does it smell?
[02:39] <fabbione> jdub: TERRIBLE
[02:41] <Keybuk> jdub: What's brown and sticky?
[02:41] <jdub> a stick insect!
[02:42] <Keybuk> a stick
[02:43] <jdong> Keybuk: is that an artwork joke? :D
[02:43] <Keybuk> jdong: no?
[02:43] <Keybuk> should it be?
[02:43] <johanbr> Why does update-manager accept both "--dist-upgrade" and "--dist-ugprade" ?
[02:43] <jdong> idn, I'm not an artsy guy....
[02:44] <Keybuk> me neither
[02:44] <jdong> johanbr: LOL
[02:44] <Keybuk> when it comes to art, I know what I like -- which is mostly those lovely greek statues, but that's about it
[02:44] <jdong> wow, pbuilder just hates me today
[02:45] <jdong> I'm getting the wackiest errors from it
[02:45] <jdong> first, it's:
[02:45] <jdong>  -> Considering  python (>= 2.4)
[02:45] <jdong>    -> Trying python
[02:45] <jdong>  -> Considering
[02:45] <jdong>    -> Trying
[02:45] <jdong> (gaim)
[02:45] <johanbr> Yes, those geek statues are really... never mind.
[02:45] <jdong> well, I'm glad that dependency was satisfied :D
[02:45] <jdong> more concerning, 
[02:45] <jdong>  -> Considering  libgnome2-dev (>=
[02:45] <jdong> dpkg: --compare-versions bad relation
[02:46] <jdong> can anyone with spare time confirm xchat-gnome fails in pbuilder with that libgnome2-dev error?
[02:46] <Keybuk> johanbr: size isn't important
[02:46] <johanbr> eh?
[02:46] <jdong> johanbr: if apt-get would accept the latter, it'd save me about 15 retypes over the last month
[02:48] <johanbr> jdong: That's what ctrl-t is for (most useless bash control sequence ever).
[02:48] <jdong> johanbr: still, accepting one-letter swaps would be an awesome feature
[02:48] <jdong> if it's unambiguous
[02:50] <johanbr> I'm sure somewhere, someone has written a unix command called mr whose most common invocation is "mr -rf /".
[02:51] <jdong> ah yes, the rough slasher
[02:52] <_ion> % mr
[02:52] <_ion> zsh: correct 'mr' to 'rm' [nyae] ? 
[03:03] <Arrogance> do I enter ubuntu.com bugs into Launchpad too?
[03:04] <LaserJock> yeah, using the ubuntu-website product
[03:04] <Arrogance> thanks
[04:08] <wasabi_> There any specific benefit in not including OCFS2 in the desktop kernel?
[04:08] <wasabi_> Other than making it hard for me to try it out on my desktop. ;)
[05:03] <unfo> hi all, why does gnome-app-install (the superb Add/Remove Programs... tool) take so much longer than aptitude to start up?
[05:03] <LaserJock> it reads in a lot of data I suppose
[05:03] <unfo> but doesn't it somehow cache the data?
[05:04] <johanbr> Probably also because aptitude is written in C and g-a-i in Python.
[05:04] <unfo> i should run it thru a python profiler.
[05:05] <LaserJock> well, aptitude is ncurses
[05:05] <LaserJock> I'd imagine that would help
[05:06] <LaserJock> well, I believe it reads in .desktop files
[05:07] <LaserJock> so I wonder if it reads those in when it loads
[05:10] <Amaranth> g-a-i is IO bound
[05:10] <Amaranth> it has to read a bunch of .desktop files
[05:11] <minghua> aptitude is written in C++ just FYI
[05:15] <_ion> One would think the data structure it forms by reading the .desktop files could be cached.
[05:15] <jdub> http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/061115/20061115005870.html?.v=1 <-- BEST SENDMAIL NEWS EVER
[05:17] <unfo> jdub: description?
[05:19] <unfo> Amaranth: yeah... I see now it's opening numerous files from /usr/share/app-install/desktop and /usr/share/app-install/icons.
[05:19] <unfo> it seems to be especially slow with opening the icons.
[05:19] <unfo> i love strace -eopen.
[05:19] <Amaranth> alacarte has the same problem
[05:19] <Amaranth> but it's for loading icons since i get my .desktop stuff from gnome-menus
[05:20] <unfo> couldn't gnome keep a big huge icon cache to hold all those icons?
[05:20] <Amaranth> it does, sort of
[05:21] <Amaranth> `strace -eopen alacarte` shows it loading a crap load of icons and a .mo file for every single thing in the menus :/
[05:22] <Amaranth> oh, i apparently load every .desktop too, dang
[05:28] <unfo> Amaranth: what cache is there?
[05:29] <Amaranth> unfo: /usr/share/icons/Human/icon-theme.cache
[05:30] <unfo> Amaranth: so why doesn't g-a-i seem to use it?
[05:30] <Amaranth> it does
[05:30] <Amaranth> it should, anyway
[05:30] <Amaranth> as long as it's using gtk.IconTheme
[06:25] <pygi> morning
[09:23] <sivang> mornig all
[09:25] <mdke> morning sivang 
[09:26] <sivang> hey mdke 
[09:26] <sivang> mdke: back from UDS?
[09:27] <mdke> no, I didn't go to UDS
[09:27] <mdke> sadly
[09:30] <sivang> ah I see, same here /me hugs mdke 
[10:18] <Q-FUNK> what would you guys do with bug #2620 ? it dates back from Breezy and the user cannot seem to be bothered with upgrading.
[10:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2620 in cups-pdf "cups-pdf broken after upgrade to Breezy" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2620
[10:20] <ivoks> Q-FUNK: cups-pdf works the way we don't like it
[10:21] <Q-FUNK> ivoks: not since edgy.
[10:21] <ivoks> Q-FUNK: right
[10:21] <ivoks> Q-FUNK: so, you want backport?
[10:21] <sivang> hi ivoks 
[10:21] <ivoks> hi sivang 
[10:21] <sivang> ivoks: had good time on the plane? :)
[10:21] <ivoks> sivang: plane?
[10:22] <Q-FUNK> I suppose that a backport to dapper could work.  anything older wouldn't really make sense.  even then, that doesn't resolve this old breezy bug.
[10:23] <ivoks> Q-FUNK: this bug is caused by missing min12xxw binary
[10:24] <sivang> ivoks: I think you had plans to play with hubackup while on your way back from UDS , sorry if I confused you with another guy
[10:24] <ivoks> Q-FUNK: ubuntu-desktop package depends on min12xxw
[10:25] <ivoks> sivang: hehe no, i wasn't at UDS
[10:33] <sivang> oh dear, then whom did I talk about it to? :)
[10:37] <Q-FUNK> ivoks: ah. hadn't spotted that bit in his log.
[10:41] <ivoks> sivang: :)
[10:46] <ivoks> Q-FUNK: reporter didn't answer for more than a year
[10:47] <ivoks> eh...
[11:29] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: here?
[03:24] <seanh> Just following up on the recent announcement of a ubuntu-backup dev team, it said we could drop the devs a line in this room, I'm supporting a user who wants to backup stuff, is HUBackup fully working for basic backups to external HD or CD/DVD?
[03:24] <seanh> (I have tried it, didn't seem to work for me)
[03:30] <seanh> I seem to be able to make .dar files with hubackup, but hurestore doesn't launch, on edgy. Also when making the backuo, after verifying it, the only button to press is 'Cancel', there's no 'Finish' button. I'm sure that's already known though.
[03:31] <seanh> Ah I see the hurestore crashes on startup bug is already in launchpad
[03:33] <seanh> Looks like hub isn't quite usable yet, I wonder what the best, simple GUI backup utility for external HDs and CD/DVDs in Edgy is then?
[03:45] <bddebian> Howdy
[05:11] <Seveas> sivang, thankfully #ubuntu-devel will be a moderated list $soon 
[05:16] <Mez> tfheen, ping
[05:16] <tfheen> Mez: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
[05:17] <Mez> tfhenn: ping regarding prevu reject
[05:17] <Mithrandir> Mez: if you talk to this client instead you might have a chance of reaching me. :-P
[05:17] <Mez> Mithrandir, lol /me forgets peoples different aliases Mithrandir 
[05:18] <Mez> Mithrandir, where do these copyright/licence things need to go? 
[05:18] <Mithrandir> in the source files and in debian/copyright.
[05:19] <Mez> ok, they're in debian/copyright
[05:19] <Mithrandir> not in the package you uploaded; it didn't have a debian/copyright at all
[05:19] <Mez> Mithrandir, wtf? are you sure/ 
[05:20] <Mez> Mithrandir, it's there at my end
[05:20] <Mez> http://rafb.net/paste/results/cjqZDu64.html
[05:20] <sivang> Mez: prevu? what's that?
[05:21] <Mez> sivang, http://launchpad.net/products/prevu
[05:21] <sivang> Seveas: indeed, but how can we make sure important people how are neither approved for universe/main will be able to participte in development discussions? through the -discuss list?
[05:22] <sivang> Mez: ah, nice
[05:22] <Mez> Mithrandir, and http://rafb.net/paste/results/2RLoXp73.html
[05:23] <Mez> Mithrandir, surely somethings b0rked somewhere ?
[05:23] <jdong> sivang: roll your own crack I guess :D
[05:23] <Mez> Mithrandir, or do you want GPL Notices added to the source aswell ?
[05:24] <Mithrandir> Mez: none of the files from the upstream tarball has any kind of copyright information.
[05:24] <jdong> hehe
[05:24] <jdong> :)
[05:24] <Mithrandir> apparently, there's a debian/copyright there; I'm unsure how I overlooked that.
[05:24] <Mithrandir> though, it doesn't matter as long as the files are unlicenced.
[05:24] <jdong> (the one who split out debian-dir)
[05:25] <Mez> jdong: to be fair - I added the copyright stuff to the debian dir ;)
[05:25] <jdong> :D
[05:25] <Mez> you just didnt licence the files
[05:25] <Mez> jdong, are you happy for it to be GPL'd ?
[05:25] <jdong> Mez: sure thing
[05:25] <jdong> Mez: you do it then :D
[05:26] <jdong> Mez: you wanna incorporate the new dev changes too?
[05:26] <Mez> if they're there I will
[05:26] <jdong> Mez: pushed them like 30 seconds ago
[05:29] <Mez> Mithrandir, soyuz doesnt keep the old .orig.tar.gz does it ?
[05:37] <jdong> is there any cheap way of making a deb out of a pretend root with the installed files
[05:37] <jdong> sort of like what dpkg-buildpackage does near its final steps?
[05:38] <Mez> jdong, man dh_builddeb
[05:39] <Mez> s/dh_builddeb/dpkg-deb/
[05:39] <jdong> ooh
[05:40] <Mez> Mithrandir, pushed a copy that should hopefully satisfy you
[05:41] <Mez> Is there any reason that noone's changed ubuntu's lintian yet to say that the ubuntu distros arent bad distro names
[05:41] <Mez> or to not get the "nmu should be mentioned in changelog" when we have a 0ubuntu*
[06:03] <Mez> Mithrandir, I uploaded the new prevu, but dont have ANYTTHING back from soyuz yet
[06:03] <Mithrandir> Mez: it's in NEW
[06:04] <Mez> Mithrandir, cool - it just ddnt send any emails telling me that
[06:04] <Mithrandir>   129513 | S- | prevu                | 1:0.4.1bzr45-0ubuntu | 25 minutes
[06:04] <Mithrandir>          | * prevu/1:0.4.1bzr45-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: devel
[06:05] <Mez> ooh, sexy scripts ;)
[06:05] <infinity> Not really. :)
[06:05] <Mez> infinity, it looks funkeh ;)
[06:06] <Mez> though the override file needs to be changed
[06:07] <infinity> Among other things, yes.
[06:08] <sivang> infinity: do you have any idea when the prop. ati driver will work again in feisty? ;)
[06:09] <mjg59> Hopefully never
[06:09] <mjg59> It'd solve all sorts of problems
[06:09] <sivang> mjg59: hehe
[06:10] <sivang> but it does seem to be faster for me, on 2d as well.
[06:18] <jdong> sivang: yeah it is
[06:18] <jdong> sivang: and much much less video tearing too with xv
[06:19] <jdong> mjg59: pretty please? :D
[06:20] <mjg59> jdong: If it works it works, but I'm afraid I have absolutely no interest in non-free drivers except in so far as they break things that otherwise work :)
[06:20] <jdong> mjg59: please have some heart for those with radeons that aren't supported with any other drivers :)
[06:20] <jdong> mjg59: the newest fglrx release has resolved a lot of headaches for us unblessed folk
[06:21] <mjg59> What? Vesa will drive all of them.
[06:21] <slomo_> is there a reason why our glibc 2.5 has __GLIBC_MINOR__ == 4?
[06:21] <mjg59> Less than optimally.
[06:21] <jdong> mjg59: far less than optimally
[06:21] <jdong> mjg59: vesa cuts my battery life in half and doesn't even deliver adequate 2D performance for desktop tasks
[06:21] <mjg59> Sorry, I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who end up with hardware we can't drive
[06:21] <mjg59> If someone's paid to care, then fair enough
[06:21] <mjg59> I'm not :)
[06:22] <sivang> mjg59: when I bought this laptop there were yet not nvidia enabled lenovos, we beg you :)
[06:22] <jdong> mjg59: yes, but is it really too much to ask for a newer fglrx version in lrm?
[06:22] <mjg59> As far as I know, pretty much the entire Lenovo range is available with Intel graphics
[06:23] <sivang> well, Mark has an radeon as well, so we're gonna get it eventually , won't be better sooner then later? :p
[06:23] <mjg59> From my point of view, it's quite easy. If you'll give me enough money to drink away the memories, I'll deal with fglrx. Otherwise, it gets left to someone who's on staff and doesn't have as much freedom in choosing which bits of the distribution to work on :)
[06:24] <Seveas> mjg59, heh -- the joys of not being paid ;)
[06:24] <jdong> :)
[06:24] <mjg59> Oh, I'm paid, just not for anything related to Ubuntu...
[06:24] <mjg59> Until three weeks time, anyway. Then I'm not paid.
[06:24] <sivang> mjg59: what are you doing for a living?
[06:25] <mjg59> I'm a PhD student
[06:25] <nixternal> amen!
[06:25] <sivang> mjg59: in biology right?
[06:25] <mjg59> Yup
[06:25] <sivang> majoring in, that is
[06:25] <sivang> mjg59: pretty damn cool
[06:26] <mjg59> We don't have major/minor here
[06:26] <sivang> mjg59: my brother started a B.Sc in it a month ago
[06:26] <azeem> mjg59: will you finish your PhD in three weeks, or will just not be paid anymore after that?
[06:26] <mjg59> azeem: Just paid no more
[06:27] <mjg59> Several months left yet, at least
[06:27] <azeem> :-/
[06:27] <nixternal> jeesh, im starting to feel stoopid around all of these super smart PhD people in biology, lasers, chemistry, physics, and groove
[06:27] <sivang> guys, I'm not sure mjg59 will see it eye to eye that you're hoping for him to have to work for canonical on flgrx to get paid ;)
[06:27] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, so coding is just a passion right ? :)
[06:27] <azeem> an ex-gf of mine currently writes up her PhD in micro-biology, and she hasn't been paid since summer either
[06:28] <azeem> and has to deal with the job centres as well
[06:28] <mjg59> Well, I do a mixture of computational and experimental work
[06:28] <sivang> mjg59: you anyway close to computational biology?
[06:28] <mjg59> I do computational analysis and then experiments to validate predictions
[06:29] <sivang> mjg59: what field of life forms?
[06:29] <mjg59> Fruitflies
 Perl is lovely
 Perl lets me do almost no work and get a PhD for it
[06:29] <mjg59> Yeah
[06:29] <mjg59> Turns out I need to care about the flies as well
[06:29] <mjg59> Flies aren't lovely
[06:29] <azeem> :)
[06:29] <sivang> mjg59: does it help you reduce amounts of experiment by simulations?
[06:30] <azeem> did you get rid of that strange lab collegue?
[06:30] <mjg59> sivang: Not really
[06:30] <sivang> mjg59: ah
[06:30] <mjg59> sivang: I look for patterns in DNA, and then test whether they mean anything
[06:30] <mjg59> azeem: She ran out of funding and left
[06:30] <azeem> yay
[06:31] <sivang> mjg59: cool, seem slike perl was destined to become the de-facto for doing such stuff, isn't it?
[06:32] <seanh> I think there should ba an ubuntu-research project, help people make PhD proposals etc. that involve developing for ubuntu. Get governments to fund ubuntu development by funding PhDs.
[06:33] <azeem> seanh: which parts of Ubuntu are truely rocket science?
[06:33] <mjg59> Perl is good at parsing text. Bioinformatics is mostly text.
[06:33] <sivang> none , but using evolutionary algorithms for kernel scheduling might be :)
[06:33] <_ion> Gattaca
[06:34] <seanh> We'll keep away from the rocket science department for now. But for example, developing a new bookmarks system for epiphany, including user testing and analysis in the development cycle, that sort of thing
[06:34] <mjg59> seanh: PhDs have to involve research and developing new knowledge, not just application of existing work
[06:34] <_ion> seanh: Is it going to be based on Meta Tracker, btw?
[06:34] <jdong> random question
[06:35] <seanh> mjg59 - yeah, you'd have to research and develop a new way of doing web bookmarks, through hacking on epiphany
[06:35] <jdong> hypothetically speaking, if I want to update to a 2.6.18 kernel in edgy, how much trouble would it be to patch 2.6.18 onto Edgy's kernel?
[06:36] <seanh> _ion - dunno. I wanted to do chronological bookmarks, blend bookmarks and history together, and use thumgnails like f-pot does
[06:37] <seanh> I saw some academic research about displaying search engine results as thumbnails instead of just excerpts from the text, they did experiments to show that people could browse faster that way
[06:38] <_ion> Now that you mentioned f-spot, there's this proposition for it, too: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350728
[06:38] <azeem> seanh: this looks more like a SoC project or master thesis than a 3-year PhD to me
[06:38] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 350728 in General "Use Meta Tracker as the indexer + the metadata DB" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]  
[06:38] <ternkoe> hi
[06:39] <ternkoe> ubuntu quite heavy on old machines?
[06:39] <ternkoe> like say a PIII 450 256MB
[06:39] <seanh> azeem - yeah maybe
[06:42] <dsas> seanh: I think the firefox or ephiphany devs have the bookmarks + history planned somewhere already.
[06:42] <seanh> azeem - still, I thinl the idea of encouraging people who are going to do research degrees to try and do it with ubuntu
[06:43] <azeem> so you mean something which is really primarily useful to Ubuntu, but no other FLOSS projects?
[06:43] <azeem> I guess that will be hard to find
[06:43] <seanh> dsas - yeah there's a page about it on the epiphany wiki, don't think they've decided what to do yet, lack of developers. Anyway, even if they are developing a solution, doesn't stop someone else from developing something radically different, right? And if you can get a university to fund you to do it...
[06:44] <seanh> azeem - no, i didn't mean it should be useful to ubuntu and not other projects
[06:44] <azeem> then why do it in the context of Ubuntu?
[06:46] <seanh> azeem - why not? But I guess your're right, it might be more of a project for the FSF or someone look that promoting free software
[07:00] <robertj> can someone please close the ethical-info spec so we can get something less-nebulous, less-inflamatory, and more-productive in it's stead?
[07:03] <LaserJock> robertj: you want to use that name?
[07:04] <robertj> Not really
[07:04] <robertj> Ethical is not the right title IMO
[07:04] <robertj> LicensingAwareness perhaps?
[07:05] <LaserJock> well, I suppose a person with the proper LP privileges could do it
[07:05] <LaserJock> but I sorta don't see the point
[07:06] <zul> besides dont you have gwhatisitname?
[07:07] <robertj> LaserJock: its a 4 months old spec that is still New, was declined in paris, it should be closed
[07:07] <LaserJock> well, I don't know that we really do that
[07:08] <robertj> I'd love to see some real actually useful specs, like having some way to show appropriate symbols when installing 3rd party packages, but I think the whole spec carrys too much baggage
[07:25] <pygi> siretart, yay ^_^ k3b now searches for cdrskin as alternative to wodim in Debian :)
[07:25] <pygi> siretart, not too great, but that's good progress considering no one heard about cdrskin since about two months ago :P
[08:36] <pygi> hey pitti 
[08:36] <pitti> hi pygi 
[08:36] <pygi> pitti: long time no see ^_^
[08:37] <pygi> pitti: and so much nice things happened ^_^
[08:37] <pitti> pygi: rock on!
[08:37] <ajmitch> hey pitti, pygi 
[08:38] <pygi> pitti: in theory, whatever you can do with cdrecord regarding cd burning, you can do the same using libburn
[08:38] <pygi> pitti: -multi, -tao, all that implemented ^_^
[08:38] <pitti> hi ajmitch!
[08:38] <pygi> hello ajmitch 
[08:38] <slomo_> pygi: good work :)
[08:38] <zul> hey pitti 
[08:38] <pitti> pygi: that's awesome!
[08:38] <pygi> slomo_: thanks, but still a lot ahead of us ^_^
[08:38] <pitti> pygi: do app developers want to use it already? or in the future?
[08:39] <pitti> pygi: like n-cd-burner and such?
[08:39] <pygi> pitti: Brasero already has a libburn backend, will enable by default for feisty (I will do so :P)
[08:39] <zul> pitti: back home yet?
[08:39] <pygi> pingar: n-c-b dudes aren't responding, but IHMO I'll prepare a patch and throw it at them :)
[08:39] <pitti> zul: no, hanging out in San Francisco with the other Canonical guys and girls
[08:39] <zul> ah
[08:39] <pygi> pitti: Gnomebaker's next release will probably support libburn as well
[08:39] <pitti> cool
[08:39] <pygi> pitti: trying to contact Xfburn people to use libburn
[08:40] <pygi> but It's still not ready for prime time, a lot more work coming ^_^
[08:40] <pitti> such as DVD support?
[08:40] <pygi> pitti: yes, but we aren't working only on libburn
[08:40] <pygi> pitti: libisofs must be extended, cdrskin to work even closer as cdrecord does, and write genisofs (compatibility layer for mkisofs)
[08:41] <pygi> pitti: cdrskin already assures so you can use libburn on any burning app which can change backends without changing code
[08:41] <pygi> pitti: k3b searches for cdrskin as replacement to wodim in Debian package 
[08:41] <pygi> for now, later on, one should just drop wodim
[08:42] <pygi> slomo_: o right, you are here ^_^ You won't eat me too much if I enable libburn by  default, no? :P
[08:42] <slomo_> pygi: no, that's perfect :) didn't i tell you before edgy release that it would be nice to have it enabled for feisty? :)
[08:43] <pygi> slomo_: yes, you have ^_^
[08:43] <pygi> slomo_: anyway, soon will be a release of new libburn with all those cool new features, and we'll work to release brasero 0.5.90 (or 0.5.91?) which will support it
[08:43] <slomo_> pygi: now only the other part of the world has to be converted ;) do you think it would be possible to replace cdrecord everywhere with libburn/cdrskin for feisty?
[08:43] <pygi> also Brasero 0.5.90/91 will be the first one where it'll actually be easy to disable any cdrkit/wodim/bla usage =)
[08:44] <pygi> slomo_: please no, don't do that.
[08:44] <pygi> slomo_: general call for a lot of testing, pushing it, etc...yes, ofcourse
[08:44] <slomo_> pygi: don't worry, i won't :)
[08:45] <pygi> slomo_: but I wanna wait for the release where we'll actually also be able to mimic all mkisofs features, and where we'll fix at least a bit of potential issues
[08:45] <pygi> slomo_: feisty+1 will almost definetely go that way, if only I could get ahold of that damn set of rainbow books =)
[08:46] <pygi> definitely*
[08:47] <pygi> slomo_: we are working as hard as we can, count that only 3 devs exist
[08:47] <pygi> and only me and Thomas can actually work on low-level stuff
[08:47] <pygi> and we did such magnificient progress in so little time
[08:47] <pygi> slomo_: my initial estimate was 2 years for -tao and -multi
[08:47] <pygi> slomo_: go figure ^_^
[08:47] <slomo_> :)
[08:50] <pygi> slomo_: if you know whoever that is willing to read a lot of specs, is capable and willing to implement stuff in libisofs please redirect to me ^_^
[08:50] <pygi> slomo_: kinda stuffed with all the happenings in libburn right now ^_^
[08:51] <pygi> heh, constantly same bugs about cdrecord/dvd+rw tools coming to my mail :-/
[08:56] <pitti> ajmitch: is xen-3.0 a supportable package, in general?
[08:56] <ajmitch> pitti: yes
[08:57] <pygi> slomo_: I was thinking on hacking GB to use cdrskin instead of cdrecord for feisty, but I gave up :P
[08:57] <pygi> I wouldn't allow that to hit archive =)
[08:57] <pitti> I never touched it, but I'm supposed to handle the MIR
[08:58] <ajmitch> pitti: I've got to head out soon, but ask whatever questions you want :)
[09:02] <zul> hmm someone mentioned xen-3.0?
[09:02] <pitti> zul: I'm at looking on the MIR ATM
[09:03] <zul> ah
[09:03] <pitti> do we have a good contact to upstream?
[09:03] <pitti> how active is it?
[09:03] <pitti> any insanities in the package/code?
[09:03] <zul> upstream is pretty active
[09:04] <zul> no real insanities but we dont really have a good contact upstream
[09:04] <pitti> zul: what's the perspective of integrating the dom0 kernel into our main kernel source?
[09:04] <zul> pitti: pretty good for 2.6.20
[09:04] <pitti> I figure that the package will be pretty useless without a kernel
[09:04] <pitti> we just need it in main as a build-dep
[09:05] <zul> it would but some of fabbione's clustering stuff depends on libvirt
[09:05] <pitti> right
[09:05] <pitti> I'm in favor of supporting it if we will eventually get the kernels into main, too
[09:06] <zul> we will, im pretty confident that our kernel will work with the xen crack by 2.6.20
[09:06] <ajmitch> zul: with paravirt ops?
[09:06] <zul> yep
[09:07] <ajmitch> will that allow working alongside vmware yet, or is that for feisty+1?
[09:07] <zul> vmware and xen should both be using paravirt
[09:07] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: paravirt should allow coexistence
[09:07] <ajmitch> pitti: I regularly read the xen mailing lists, so I can easily find people to contact
[09:08] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: that's great, my poor amd64 is too old for hardware virt :)
[09:08] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: mine too.. and it's an x2 4400+
[09:08] <ajmitch> 4200+ for me
[09:08] <ajmitch> got it a few months too early
[09:09] <Mithrandir> I might replacy my 3000+, though.
[09:09] <Mithrandir> replace, even
[09:09] <Mithrandir> especially if I manage to pillage a mainboard and cpu from somewhere.
[09:10] <ajmitch> so at least I've got a fresh start to do some hacking on 
[09:10] <fabbione> madduck: you around?
[09:11] <pitti> s/xon/xen/
[09:11] <pitti> oh, the amd64 package is empty, the i386 one has stuff
[09:11] <ajmitch> interesting
[09:11] <pitti> this should be arch:all
[09:11] <fabbione> that's the way to go!
[09:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: amd64 dudes don't need no docs!
[09:12] <pitti> RTFC!!!11!
[09:12] <Mithrandir> UTSL, rather
[09:13] <zul> meh..
[09:14] <infinity> ajmitch: Check -changes
[09:14] <fabbione> ajmitch: i already fixed it
[09:14] <ajmitch> infinity: yeah, saw it
[09:14] <ajmitch> I'm having other issues
[09:14] <fabbione> ajmitch: and if i get a bug for that, i am going to castrate you
[09:14] <ajmitch> like timeouts at boot
[09:14] <infinity> fabbione: Though, the first init script in postinst failed for me too.
[09:14] <infinity> fabbione: I had to stop it before it could start.
[09:14] <fabbione> infinity: yeah that's what i fixed it
[09:14] <ajmitch> having to start lvm from busybox, etc
[09:14] <fabbione> s/it/
[09:14] <infinity> fabbione: No, you fixed the second init script.
[09:14] <infinity> The REALLY broken one. :)
[09:15] <fabbione> infinity: uh i only saw one error dist-upgrading
[09:15] <Mez> anyone here have any experience with postfix?
[09:15] <lamont> Mez: a little
[09:15] <pitti> a bit
[09:15] <fabbione> ajmitch: timeouts at boot?
[09:15] <_ion> Some.
[09:15] <fabbione> ajmitch: be more specific
[09:15] <infinity> lamont: Just a tad?
[09:16] <lamont> infinity: yeah
[09:16] <lamont> Mez: sup?
[09:16] <Mez> anyone wanna tell me how to get saslauthd working?
[09:16] <infinity> Mez: bindmounts
[09:16] <lamont> that's not a postfix question... that's a sasl question
[09:16] <ajmitch> fabbione: it took ~3 minutes before the raid 5 started, after that it went to waiting for root filesystem
[09:16] <pitti> however, ISTR having trouble with this, too
[09:16] <Mez> infinity, I know that, but my bind mount I had isnt working
[09:16] <lamont> there's a reason that postfix doesn't autoconfigure sasl :-(
[09:16] <fabbione> ajmitch: make sure your mdadm.conf is valid and that you update your initramgs
[09:16] <fabbione> initramfs
[09:16] <lamont> Mez: what version of libsasl2?
[09:17] <infinity> lamont: I could help you make that go.  I've walked enough people through it on -server in the last 6 months that I have it down to a science.
[09:17] <ajmitch> both are valid & up to date
[09:17] <fabbione> ajmitch: and that's known to work and be done automatically in edgy. I still can't fully test feisty
[09:17] <_ion> mez: I have in main.cf: broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes, smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes, smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes, and in /etc/postfix/sasl/smtpd.conf: pwcheck_method:saslauthd, mech_list:plain login
[09:17] <Mez> 2.1.19.dfsg1-0.1ubuntu2
[09:17] <infinity> lamont: Ironic, given that I don't use either postifx or sasl.
[09:17] <ajmitch> fabbione: I'll refresh the initramfs again & try tonight
[09:17] <Mez> _ion, I have similar to that :P
[09:18] <fabbione> ajmitch: in any case if you are on feisty, that behaviour will change once Keybuk will move mdadm admin stuff into udev
[09:18] <lamont> somewhere around 2.1.19, things changed and you need to copy the config from /etc/postfix/sasl into /usr/lib/sasl (or whatever the library package's path is...)
[09:18] <Mez> infinity, wanna walk me through ?
[09:18] <lamont> Mez: yeah.
[09:18] <lamont> Mez: was it working before?
[09:18] <ajmitch> fabbione: yes, this was a feisty upgrade, so I was expecting at least some trouble somewhere
[09:18] <ajmitch> back later
[09:18] <lamont> ln /etc/postfix/sasl/* /usr/lib/sasl2 would be the fix if it _was_ working
[09:19] <Mez> lamont, I had to set up a bind mount... but I rebooted and the bind mount's gone (though there is a bind mount in /etc/fstab)
[09:19] <Treenaks> lamont: scary
[09:19] <lamont> infinity: I'd love to walk through it with you late next week
[09:19] <lamont> Treenaks: they split the modules and config into separate callbacks
[09:19] <Treenaks> lamont: config in /usr is still scary :)
[09:19] <lamont> oh, it's wrong
[09:19] <lamont> that's why the directory is there..
[09:20] <lamont> fixed in 2.3.4-2, fwiw
[09:20] <lamont> which I'll upload shortly. :-)
[09:20] <infinity> lamont: Cool, make a play date with my PA.
[09:21] <lamont> infinity: which clare is that? :-)
[09:21] <Mez> hmm
[09:21] <pitti> ajmitch: http://tinyurl.com/y6u9py -> 54 critical/blocker/major bugs in upstream
[09:21] <Mez> It's working now that I've started it manually
[09:21] <pitti> ajmitch: but the MIR page says 'no critical bugs'
[09:21] <fabbione> -              log_problem "no $*"
[09:21] <fabbione> +              log_dev 0 $1 "no $*"
[09:21] <Mez> I spoke too soon
[09:21] <infinity> lamont: Claire McMartin. :)
[09:22] <fabbione> infinity: ^^
[09:23] <zul> pitti: the xen-3.0.2 in the url doesnt apply
[09:26] <fabbione> does anybody know where libvirt is? it was supposed to be promoted to main yesterday
[09:26] <fabbione> but it's still in universe?
[09:28] <Mithrandir>    libvirt | 0.1.8-0ubuntu1 | feisty/universe | source
[09:29] <Mithrandir> fabbione: it's in the approved-but-not-yet-promoted queue
[09:30] <infinity> I nominate Mithrandir to promote it, since he's our newest lackey.
[09:31] <Mithrandir> I can be bribed with beer.
[09:31] <infinity> Or threat of physical violence?
[09:31] <pitti> fabbione: ok, I mentioned in the xen-3.0 MIR that libs are fine for main
[09:31] <Mithrandir> that's intimidation, not bribery.
[09:32] <infinity> Meh.  Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
[09:32] <ajmitch> pitti: er, thanks :)
[09:32] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[09:32] <fabbione> pitti: perfect. i don't need more than that
[09:32] <fabbione> pitti: the rest can really stay in universe
[09:32] <pitti> ajmitch: I think I have to gradually get used to this; and as long as the kernel is in universe, it doesn't matter much anyway
[09:33] <Mez> why do bind mounts just fecking dissapear ?
[09:33] <infinity> Are you bindmounting it before /var/run gets mounted on top?
[09:33] <AlinuxOS> People hello, is there some photos of your recent meeting somewhere ?
[09:34] <infinity> AlinuxOS: We're still working on filtering out allthe nude ones.
[09:34] <AlinuxOS> infinity, :DDD
[09:34] <AlinuxOS> haha
[09:34] <Mez> infinity, unless it's doing the fstab backwards, then no
[09:34] <zul> there is some people i dont want to see naked so good
[09:35] <Mez> wait
[09:35] <Mez> oh... infinity how the heck do i get it to mount AFTER /var/run is created?
[09:35] <Mez> poopsicles
[09:36] <Treenaks> Mez: in the init script? 8)
[09:36] <AlinuxOS> infinity, I suppose you are talking about girls that have partecipated in the meeting :D
[09:36] <jdong> infinity: ping
[09:36] <pygi> hello jdong 
[09:37] <jdong> ello pygi
[09:37] <pygi> jdong: what's dapper status? saw you posted on bug report again :)
[09:37] <jdong> pygi: I don't remember if I sent it thru my builder or not (maybe I did it 5 times already and forgot)
[09:37] <jdong> tell ya what, I'll run it right now again :D
[09:37] <pygi> jdong: good, thanks ^_^
[09:38] <Mez> how would I just un-chroot saslauthd
[09:38] <pygi> jdong: but we need to know does buildd builds against -updates ^_^
[09:38] <jdong> pygi: hence quick ping to infinity :)
[09:38] <jdong> pygi:  -> Considering  libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.10.0)
[09:38] <jdong> pygi: that needs to go down to 2.8.something
[09:38] <pygi> jdong: right, that even, and gnome-vfs =)
[09:39] <pygi> jdong: it can't go that :-/
[09:39] <jdong> pygi: aww poo :(
[09:39] <pygi> jdong: 2.10 is right dep
[09:39] <jdong> pygi: it won't work with 2.8  anymore?
[09:39] <pygi> jdong: you could try, it should work
[09:39] <pygi> jdong: but don't make me fix bugs then
[09:39] <jdong> pygi: heh it's backports :)
[09:39] <pygi> jdong: yes, but people complain about that ^_^
[09:40] <jdong> pygi: yeah people do complain :)
[09:40] <pygi> jdong: just leave gnome-vfs as 2.14.2 which is in dapper-updates. 2.14.1 causes some major problems
[09:40] <jdong> pygi: I won't touch that :)
[09:40] <pygi> jdong: thank ^_^
[09:40] <jdong> pygi: and configure has a safegard against that too :D
[09:40] <pygi> jdong: I've learned not to trust autotools =)
[09:41] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you don't want the -bin or python libvirts, right?
[09:41] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i only need libvirt and -dev
[09:41] <fabbione> Mithrandir: at least AFAIK
[09:41] <fabbione> nd they are B-D for rcs
[09:41] <fabbione> rcs = redhat-cluster-suite
[09:42] <fabbione> if we need more for runtime i will ask for promotion later
[09:42] <infinity> fabbione: libvirt depends on libxen
[09:42] <fabbione> infinity: yes and pitti is doing libxen MIR
[09:42] <infinity> Yeah.  Ish. :)
[09:42] <Mithrandir> infinity: pitti's happy with libxen, but not the hypahvisor
[09:42] <jdong> pygi: how far down can I take libnautilus-burn-dev?
[09:42] <jdong> (if at all :D)
[09:43] <jdong> >=2.16.0; dapper = 2.14.{1,3}
[09:43] <pygi> jdong: uh, what's the current version and where you wanna take it? 
[09:43] <bhale> jdong: you are asking for trouble if you do
[09:43] <pygi> jdong: uh, uh :-/
[09:43] <infinity> Mithrandir: So we're going to maintain this fiction of a supported source package whose binaries we don't support? I love that. :)
[09:43] <jdong> pygi: well, it looks like we've hit a dead end then :)
[09:43] <Mithrandir> infinity: la, la, la, la. :-)
[09:43] <bhale> jdong: api changed not so long ago, deprecated stuff was removed i think, banshee old versions dont work with it
[09:43] <pygi> jdong: I mean, you can try to go to 2.14.x
[09:43] <pygi> jdong: I'm just really really really not sure it'll work
[09:44] <pygi> jdong: because 2.16 broke backward compatibility which sucks!
[09:44] <bhale> pygi: yes exactly
[09:44] <jdong> pygi: so you're saying to telling pbuilder to --force-version and see if it works . ok kthxbye la la la la la
[09:44] <jdong> :D
[09:45] <pygi> jdong: it won't build, no way. I remembered it broke compatibility ^_^
[09:45] <jdong> pygi: ok :)
[09:45] <jdong> pygi: that's what I was expecting anyway :)
[09:45] <pygi> jdong: so no new brasero for dapper folks :-/
[09:45] <jdong> pygi: sadly the old backports version of brasero is probably still the best burning app in GNOME :D
[09:45] <pygi> jdong: I know
[09:46] <jdong> btw, when will gnome's bluetooth stack actually exist?
[09:46] <pygi> jdong: I have some problems with that ... sadly Luke (Gnomebaker) has less and less time for it ... especially since he got a daughter
[09:46] <jdong> pygi: configure is not amused by me tweaking the build deps :D
[09:47] <jdong> so there goes that
[09:47] <pygi> jdong: configure can be talked to "pass over the truth" :)
[09:47] <pygi> jdong: but it still won't work IHMO ^_^
[09:47] <jdong> pygi: I've learned that ./configure doesn't joke when it comes to build deps
[09:47] <jdong> :D
[09:47] <jdong> and where's mr. mythtv... he's supposed to be bugging me by now :D
[09:47] <pygi> jdong: I've learned that configure can be tricked ^_^
[09:48] <jdong> pygi: I've learned that far worse things arise from tricking ./configure than pbuilder-satisfydeps
[09:48] <Ng> jdong: chutt?
[09:48] <pygi> jdong: true ^_^
[09:48] <jdong> oh yeah I think he's in #ubuntu-motu
[09:49] <Mithrandir> fabbione: libvirt promoted
[09:49] <pygi> jdong: I'm currently being amused by cdwrite list ^_^
[09:49] <fabbione> Mithrandir: thanks dude
[09:49] <pygi> jdong: a lot of problems reported which we have in ubuntu, and all other distros have ^_^
[09:49] <jdong> :)
[09:51] <jdong> anyone have any experience syncing windows mobile 5 devices? :D
[09:52] <pygi> jdong: no =)
[09:52] <jdong> I think I need a svn build of synce to stand any chance :D
[09:52] <Mithrandir> xen promoted too.
[09:52] <Mez> W00T I GOT IT WORKING
[09:52] <Mez> darn caps
[09:52] <pygi> where did slomo go? :P
[09:52] <Mez> Mithrandir, anything else on the new package ?
[09:52] <pygi> I wanted to bug him, ergh :P
[09:53] <fabbione> Mithrandir: danke...
[09:53] <Ng> jdong: I tried it a couple of years ago and it was far too much pain at that stage to be worth doing regularly
[09:53] <Mez> pygi: Last Seen Quit Msg: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out
[09:53] <Mithrandir> Mez: haven't looked at it yet.
[09:53] <Mez> lol
[09:53] <Mez> cp /usr/share/common-licences/GPL-2 COPYING ;)
[09:54] <jdong> Ng: kidding, it's far too much hassle
[09:54] <jdong> couldn't resist it :D
[09:55] <pygi> slomo_ is back ^_^
[09:55] <pygi> slomo_: permission to bug? :)
[09:55] <slomo_> pygi: sure
[09:56] <pygi> slomo_: a lot of distros, cdwrite mailing list, etc...getting a lot of bug reports constantly which our users also experience
[09:56] <pygi> it's really getting out of hand ... I've just wished that Joerg is a bit more polite
[09:56] <pygi> he has some valid concerns about linux kernel, but he's too histerical
[09:57] <pygi> if only he could explain points, then all could be solved, cdrecord and kernel related
[09:57] <pygi> (ok, the messy code cannot be fixed, since I doubt even he can read it)
[09:57] <zul> eject /dev/cdrom
[09:58] <zul> damn
[09:58] <jdong> zul: eject: unable to eject, last error: Inappropriate ioctl for device
[09:58] <jdong> :)
[09:58] <pygi> jdong: that's when you don't use libburn to eject device ^_^
[09:59] <jdong> pygi: pfft :)
[10:01] <Treenaks> Who's peer and why is he resetting all those connections? :P
[10:01] <sivang> Treenaks: my thought exactly :)
[10:02] <Treenaks> wb.. ?
[10:04] <jdong> oops, that's what that button in ettercap does :D
[10:04] <Treenaks> jdong: tcpkill.. oops!
[10:04] <jdong> :)
[10:04] <jdong> Treenaks: you have no idea how many times I've said that in a serious context :D
[10:04] <jdong> Treenaks: eventually I learned not to play with ettercap at all :)
[10:05] <Treenaks> jdong: remind me not to hire you as a network admin ;)
[10:05] <Mez> nooone here has an ISPTAG do they ?
[10:05] <Mithrandir> Mez: I'm not sure giving out http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/prevu/dev as "downloaded from" is very useful, but that's actually more of a LP problem than anything.
[10:05] <Mithrandir> Mez: I'll discuss that with the other archive team members and we'll work something out
[10:05] <jdong> Mez: heh, bzr export time I guess... :)
[10:05] <Treenaks> Mez: ISPTAG?
[10:05] <jdong> Mithrandir: it's too bad launchpad doesn't have a file release mechanism :-/
[10:05] <Mez> Treenaks, http://www.nominet.org.uk/tag/
[10:06] <Mithrandir> jdong: yeah; it might have one day though.
[10:06] <Mithrandir> oh well, lunch here now
[10:06] <Treenaks> Mez: No, I don't :)
[10:06] <jdong> Mez: shall I just bzr export and publish to SF.net?
[10:06] <Eons> what are the plans for gnome 2.18? 
[10:06] <Mez> Lets see if it's ACCEPTED first ?
[10:07] <Eons> there is a list of new features, something like this?
[10:10] <jdong> Mez: mmmkay
[10:10] <jdong> on the launchpad note, it's probably a better plan to use like bzr-webdir
[10:10] <jdong> which can export the tarball of an inventory
[10:13] <Burgwork> Eons: upstream is preparing such. see live.gnome.org/TwoPointSeventeen
[10:14] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: !
[10:18] <_ion> jdong: :-)
[10:22] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: not here? :(
[10:22] <jdong> Adri2000: he said lunch :)
[10:22] <jdong> Adri2000: and apparently he's joined the 'I hate contentless pings' club
[10:24] <Adri2000> ok :p
[10:27] <slomo_> Mithrandir: ping? if you have some seconds, can you please promote libxml-{dom,regexp}-perl to main? thanks :)
[10:28] <pygi> slomo_: any reactions? :P
[10:30] <slomo_> pygi: on? :) you only wrote that it's impossible to talk with joerg... sorry if i missed something :/
[10:30] <pygi> slomo_: and I wrote about so much bugs ^_^
[10:34] <Eons> Burgwork: thank you! that was exactly what i needed
[10:36] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: I never respond to contentless pings.
[10:36] <Adri2000> :)
[10:37] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: I'm merging pppoeconf, first do you agree or do you prefer to do it?
[10:37] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: please do
[10:37] <Adri2000> ok, so my question is about an ubuntu change you made, you removed the dependency on modconf
[10:38] <Burgwork> Eons: I live to please
[10:39] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: "to get this installable again" why exactly it didn't work?
[10:39] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: modconf's not in main
[10:39] <Adri2000> ahhh
[10:40] <Adri2000> ok Mithrandir, thank you.
[10:40] <Mithrandir> np
[11:07] <Gargoyle> Greetings. Can anyone cast an eye over my saslauthd config files to check I didn't make a mistake before I write a bug report to the ubuntu-users list?
[11:08] <pygi> Gargoyle: why would you write bug reports to mailing lists?!
[11:08] <pygi> Gargoyle: you really think someone can track that? :)
[11:08] <Gargoyle> because thats what it says in the package info!
[11:09] <pygi> Gargoyle: it surely doesn't :P
[11:09] <Gargoyle> Bugs: mailto:ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
[11:09] <pygi> or it's a bug of some kind =)
[11:09] <pygi> lol ^_^
[11:09] <Gargoyle> it does!
[11:09] <pygi> Gargoyle: just file bug against malone/that source package
[11:09] <Gargoyle> he he
[11:10] <Gargoyle> eh?
[11:10] <LaserJock> Gargoyle: I think that is used for automatic bug reporting tools perhaps
[11:10] <LaserJock> Gargoyle: the place to report  bugs is on our bug tracking system
[11:10] <LaserJock> Gargoyle: try  http://bugs.ubuntu.com
[11:12] <geser> doesn't reportbug react to the Bugs: header?
[11:12] <LaserJock> yeah, I think so
[11:25] <Gargoyle> My first bug report!
[11:25] <Gargoyle> I hope it's helpful and not just a fubar on my side!
[11:29] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you probably want to seed or make something depend on opensc in order for it to be promoted.
[11:45] <Kano> hi, on a debian system you usually have got: /etc/X11/default-display-manager, where is the file on ubuntu edgy
[11:46] <infinity> Kano: update-alternatives --display x-window-manager
[11:46] <LaserJock> Kano: I have it in the same place
[11:46] <infinity> Kano: Which is true of Debian as well.
[11:46] <infinity> Oh, wait, display-manager.
[11:46] <infinity> Brain fart.
[11:46] <infinity> Yeah, I have an /etc/X11/default-display-manager on Ubuntu too.
[11:47] <Kano> not on a pure edgy install
[11:47] <Kano> whats the ubuntu way to parse the used display-manager?
[11:48] <Ng> I have that file and this was a fresh edgy install
[11:48] <Kano> i just installed it. alternative amd64 iso
[11:49] <Kano> i have kbuntu and ubuntu amd64 installed with alternative iso, missing on both
[11:49] <infinity> gdm's postinstis meant to create it.
[11:49] <infinity> (And I assume kdm does the same)
[11:49] <Kano> so someone should be able to tell me how to parse it
[11:50] <HrdwrBoB> update-alternatives --display x-window-manager
[11:50] <Kano> all i can say it is not there...
[11:50] <infinity> HrdwrBoB: Wrong thing.
[11:50] <infinity> HrdwrBoB: I had the same brain fart, mind you.
[11:50] <Kano> thats no window manager
[11:50] <HrdwrBoB> oh.. heh
[11:50] <infinity> Kano: dpkg-reconfigure gdm, and see if it shows up.
[11:51] <Mithrandir> slomo_: done
[11:51] <Kano> infinity: it shows up for gdm, but not for kdm
[11:52] <Kano> when you use reconfigure with gdm you see a grep error that this file is missing and a new file is written
[11:52] <Kano> no error with kdm
[11:52] <Kano> you broke it i would say...
[11:53] <infinity> "you"
[11:53] <infinity> File bugs, then.
[11:53] <infinity> Please.
[11:53] <Kano> infinity: nope
[11:53] <fabbione> infinity, BenC_: do we have LRM for .19-6 ?
[11:53] <Kano> i just wanted to adopt my nvidia+fglrx script for ubuntu, will not use it for long time
[11:53] <infinity> fabbione: No LRM until PPC's kernel builds.
[11:53] <Kano> will just check for kdm,gdm or xdm in that order but i dislike that a bit
[11:53] <fabbione> infinity: ok
[11:57] <Mithrandir> slomo_: liferea is ready for promotion, but not seeded.  Please seed.
[11:58] <Burgwork> Mithrandir: are we seeding liferea to the default desktop?
[12:00] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: I'd be fine with it, but it's not my decision, I'm merely doing promotions to main
[12:00] <Burgwork> Mithrandir: no, just wondering, so I can report it
[12:00] <Mithrandir> ah
[12:08] <Mithrandir> argh, I'm a muppet.
[12:09] <Mithrandir> zul: I need a MIR for libvncserver for xen.
[12:09] <infinity> Wow, a day into archive admin, and you're already publically admitting to muppetry.
[12:09] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'm a quick learner.  Learnt from the best, you know.
[12:09] <Mithrandir> best muppets, that is.
[12:10] <Mithrandir> ooh, inkscape now wants loudmouth.  That looks promising