[12:11] <Adri2000> the debuild test of revu-report doesn't list the binary files?
[12:11] <imbrandon> think about it like this, if it was signed with his key , why couldent he just upload it :)
[12:12] <imbrandon> minghua: ^
[12:12] <pygi> I don't have the powers ^_^
[12:12] <imbrandon> anyhow bbiab
[12:13] <crimsun> man, this report in #ubuntu just makes me have even warmer and fuzzier feelings for checkinstall
[12:13] <pygi> vil, poke
[12:14] <crimsun> (checkinstalled alsa-driver, which of course blows away linux-sound-base and alsa-base's configuration)
[12:14] <minghua> pygi: uploaded (with .dsc signed by you)
[12:15] <minghua> to everyone helped: thanks.  I know I can sign the .dsc myself, I wanted to play with this a little :-)
[12:15] <pygi> minghua, thanks
[12:15] <imbrandon> minghua: right but the archive will reject it, check your email
[12:15] <imbrandon> otherwise he could have just uploaded it
[12:16] <crimsun> I'm not even sure it will be a reject, tbh, though I don't know how closely katie resembles soyuz these days
[12:16] <imbrandon> true , it might just silently die
[12:16] <pygi> minghua, ehm :p
[12:17] <imbrandon> anyhow , back to reloading the laptop
[12:18] <Fujitsu> minghua: Is that the best way? That's how my package does it now, I was wondering if there is a better day.
[12:18] <Fujitsu> *way
[12:18] <pygi> minghua, seems like you have to sign and reupload ^)^
[12:18] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: It should just silently die.
[12:22] <minghua> Fujitsu: which way are you asking about?  the "keep the .dsc signature and sign .changes only" way?
[12:22] <Fujitsu> minghua: sys.path.append().l
[12:22] <Fujitsu> -l
[12:22] <minghua> oh
[12:22] <minghua> Fujitsu: I always use that, I know it's quite hackish
[12:23] <Fujitsu> That's what I thought.
[12:23] <Fujitsu> It works, but is hackish.
[12:23] <minghua> Fujitsu: I don't know any others though.  You see, I am just a beginner in python
[12:24] <minghua> pygi, imbrandon, crimsun:  it seems soyuz is happy with the package
[12:24] <LaserJock> Fujitsu!
[12:24] <minghua> s/package/upload/
[12:24] <Fujitsu> LaserJock!
[12:24] <crimsun> minghua: excellent
[12:24] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I wanted to ask you about gnucash
[12:24] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Go ahead, although I know little/nothing about it...
[12:25] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I see in the changelog you did a libgoffice-1-2 -> libgoffice-0-3
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Or did I merge it at some point?
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[12:25] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: have you tracked that at all?
[12:25] <LaserJock> I'm guessing no
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Not at all.
[12:26] <LaserJock> I'm looking up apps that dep on libgoffice
[12:26] <LaserJock> and seeing how the transition went
[12:26] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[12:26] <Fujitsu> Well, it doesn't seem to have exploded stuff.
[12:27] <LaserJock> it looks like gnumeric, gnucash, and gchemutils are the 3 packages that dep on it
[12:28] <LaserJock> I think I'm going to just see if I can get gchemutils to work with it
[12:28] <Fujitsu> Yeah...
[12:30] <LaserJock> dang, etch has no unmet deps :/
[12:31] <Fujitsu> None at all ?
[12:32] <LaserJock> if you take out suggests and recommends (i.e. apt-cache -i unmet as ajmitch told me)
[12:32] <LaserJock> how did they do that
[12:32] <Fujitsu> Magic!
[12:32] <LaserJock> unstable has more unmet then edgy
[12:32] <Fujitsu> (where magic is achieved by removing all the packages with unmetdeps)
[12:33] <LaserJock> really?
[12:33] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[12:33] <LaserJock> ah
[12:33] <Fujitsu> If you look at the logs for packages which we have with unmet deps, it'll say they're removed from testing.
[12:33] <LaserJock> that's right, they do that kind of thing
[12:33] <LaserJock> iiiinnnteresting
[12:33] <Fujitsu> What?
[12:34] <LaserJock> I hadn't thought of that way of "handling" problems like that
[12:34] <Fujitsu> I think it's not a bad idea...
[12:34] <Fujitsu> I also think that I need to find an archive admin.
[12:35] <Fujitsu> I've had a gcl upload sitting in dapper-proposed since half-way through UDS... :/
[12:35] <Fujitsu> Oops, dapper-proposed's unapproved queue.
[12:35] <LaserJock> oh dang, that's right
[12:35] <LaserJock> we were wondering what happened to that SRU
[12:35] <crimsun> Fujitsu: I'm going to wait another week before I ping 'em
[12:35] <Fujitsu> I haven't seen an archive admins since I uploaded it, so it's still unapproved :/
[12:36] <crimsun> it seems to have been a really hectic two weeks
[12:36] <LaserJock> this is ridiculous
[12:36] <Fujitsu> Where hectic == no archive admins around.
[12:36] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's only been two months since I isolated the patch!
[12:36] <LaserJock> 2 months!
[12:36] <crimsun> hopefully they've not been eaten by grues.
[12:37] <secretlondon> i presume its the summit followed the canonical meeting
[12:37] <crimsun> indeed
[12:37] <Fujitsu> secretlondon: Yes, which was a really silly idea.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> Because it means we have no important people for two weeks.
[12:37] <LaserJock> well, silly on or end ;-)
[12:37] <secretlondon> Fujitsu: well I presume it was cheaper as they were already in california
[12:37] <Fujitsu> secretlondon: True.
[12:38] <LaserJock> well, considering that maxima has be broken for 6 months+ in Dapper I guess people won't mind another week or two
[12:39] <LaserJock> but I'm guessing we lost some scientific users over it which is sad
[12:40] <secretlondon> LaserJock: they may still be using Breezy
[12:41] <LaserJock> maybe
[12:41] <LaserJock> I know they made a wiki page on how to build maxima from source
[12:41] <secretlondon> it still doesn't look very good though
[12:41] <LaserJock> so at least some were willing to stick with us
[12:42] <Simon80> what's cinepaint?
[12:42] <secretlondon> cinepaint = film gimp as was
[12:43] <secretlondon> 32 bit paint program developed by film studios
[12:43] <Fujitsu> It's all been very good timing, I think. We have the SRU policy ratified, and the following two weeks have nobody to actually let them into -proposed.
[12:45] <Fujitsu> I bet this change will get rejected by whoever I ask to approve it, too.
[12:45] <LaserJock> yeah know, it wouldn't be so bad if they had told us beforehand that the archive admins would be out
[12:46] <crimsun> secretlondon: yes, it's being worked on by #ubuntustudio
[12:46] <secretlondon> well they should have a backup plan so everything doesn't just stop
[12:46] <crimsun> secretlondon: perhaps _MMA_ can comment on cinepaint?
[12:46] <Fujitsu> Keybuk has appeared a couple of times lately, but not when I've been around :(
[12:46] <secretlondon> crimsun: no idea, Hobbsee has done the actual merge
[12:47] <pygi> what a connection lol
[12:47] <pygi> minghua, all done ok? :P
[12:47] <geser> are uploads to dapper-updates processed or are they still sitting in the unapproved queue?
[12:47] <Fujitsu> geser: I've seen naught but backports to Dapper in quite some time.
[12:48] <Fujitsu> Ah, a -proposed dpkg a month ago...
[12:49] <geser> I'm waiting for an upload to dapper-updates (uploaded by crimsun on 17-Sep) to be approved
[12:49] <secretlondon> :(
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Two months? That's excessive... Has an archive admin been asked to let it in?
[12:50] <minghua> ah, pygi left
[12:50] <crimsun> geser: hmm, that may need to go through the new SRU policy
[12:51] <crimsun> geser: let's check next week, and if need be, we can retarget it for dapper-proposed
[12:51] <Fujitsu> When does Canonical's AllHands thing finish?
[12:52] <crimsun> whenever they run out of beer?
[12:52] <secretlondon> something on the planet saying but dodn't take note of when
[12:53] <LaserJock> I think they are flying back todayish
[12:53] <imbrandon> yea today was the last day iirc
[12:53] <Fujitsu> :O
[12:53] <imbrandon> heya geser and secretlondon
[12:53] <imbrandon> and LaserJock
[12:53] <Fujitsu> So, I might actually get gcl and co. into dapper-proposed in the next year. That will be incredible.
[12:53] <secretlondon> hi imbrandon
[12:54] <geser> hi imbrandon
[12:55] <LaserJock> I can't find any info on any of these on LP
[12:56] <Fujitsu> Any of which, LaserJock?
[12:56] <LaserJock> any -proposed or -updates
[12:56] <Fujitsu> Unapproved stuff won't appear.
[12:56] <LaserJock> I was wondering if it was possible to at least "see" the backup
[12:56] <Fujitsu> And I'm not sure about -proposed.
[12:57] <LaserJock> well, we can see unapproved stuff for NEW
[12:57] <Fujitsu> They have explicitly hidden the unapproved queue, nobody seems to know why.
[12:57] <Fujitsu> That's not unapproved. That's NEW.
[12:57] <LaserJock> right
[12:57] <Fujitsu> UNAPPROVED is different, and explicitly hidden from public view.
[12:57] <LaserJock> but the idea is the same
[12:57] <imbrandon> because of - security most likely
[12:57] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Soyuz doesn't do security yet.
[12:57] <LaserJock> we *should* be able to see this stuff
[12:58] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Of course. This is LP, though.
[12:58] <geser> even if you get the URL and don't have the permissision you see nothing
[01:00] <Fujitsu> Stupid Forbidden when I try to access it.
[01:00] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:01] <Fujitsu> I suppose core-devs can access it, they can access other stuff because they're set as the drivers.
[01:01] <LaserJock> imbrandon? ^^
[01:02] <Fujitsu> Ah yes, of course.
[01:02] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Can you access https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=?
[01:02] <Fujitsu> It'd be interesting to see what has collected in there.
[01:04] <Fujitsu> As I'm not around during archive admin hours much these days, can I get somebody here to ask one of them to let gcl through next time one is sighted?
[01:04] <pygi> minghua: what happened with ubuntu1? :P
[01:04] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I think the answer would be, "I'll get to it when I get to it"
[01:05] <Fujitsu> Probably.
[01:05] <Fujitsu> It is /only/ universe, of course. Not at all important.
[01:05] <minghua> pygi: you said you dropped debian/brasero.dirs in changelog, but what you really dropped is debian/brasero.docs
[01:05] <pygi> minghua: umh, really?
[01:05] <Simon80> I'm updating my cvs stepmania package now..
[01:05] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: i cant access it either
[01:06] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: OK.
[01:06] <minghua> pygi: well, your upload is on REVU, check it yourself if you don't believe me :-P
[01:06] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, maybe we should add maxima to Main, then it wouldn't be /just/ Universe
[01:06] <LaserJock> ;-)
[01:06] <Fujitsu> Hahahah
[01:06] <pygi> minghua: I believe, I believe. Just can't believe how dumb I can be sometimes :P
[01:07] <secretlondon> does a package and it's dependency both providing the same file cause breakage?
[01:07] <imbrandon> secretlondon: yes
[01:07] <LaserJock> packages should be orthogonal
[01:07] <secretlondon> imbrandon: thanks, I'll confirm that bug then as I can see that they do
[01:07] <imbrandon> cd /var/www/
[01:07] <imbrandon> grr
[01:08] <Fujitsu> Erk... I just made gcj segfault.
[01:08] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: and that suprises you ? hehe
[01:08] <Fujitsu> It was an obvious syntactical error in my code, but still...
[01:08] <LaserJock> imbrandon: you know, I've mostly seen KDE people do that :-)
[01:09] <LaserJock> something about have konsole *everywhere* I think :-)
[01:09] <minghua> I assume segfault is more nasty than ICE?
[01:09] <imbrandon> LaserJock: do what ?
[01:09] <Fujitsu> minghua: It was an ICE:
[01:09] <LaserJock> imbrandon: your cd /var/www
[01:09] <Fujitsu> PatheticAssignment.java:34: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
[01:10] <imbrandon> ahh hehe
[01:10] <imbrandon> LaserJock: konsole is the best thing since xterm :)
[01:10] <imbrandon> too bhad i'm in puTTy atm though
[01:10] <imbrandon> bad*
[01:10] <LaserJock> xterm isn't that great
[01:11] <LaserJock> wterm and aterm were always my favorites
[01:11] <minghua> Fujitsu: oh.  I didn't know ICE catches segfaults as well
[01:11] <Fujitsu> It apparently does.
[01:12] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure my instructor/lecturer/teacher will really like the name of the main class in this assignment, but it pretty much sums it up.
[01:25] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: you gonna merge galternatives?
[01:29] <secretlondon> Fujitsu: We've got a build dep bug on one of yours - matplotlib which seems to be depending on xbase-clients in edgy
[01:29] <secretlondon> (and not in dapper)
[01:32] <LaserJock> secretlondon: is it causing problems?
[01:33] <secretlondon> LaserJock: they say it can't be built in edgy - missing dependency although I haven't got an edgy box to confirm on
[01:33] <LaserJock> secretlondon: odd, I'll give it a go
[01:34] <secretlondon> LaserJock: it's bug 72344
[01:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72344 in matplotlib "[Edgy]  Matplotlib has broken build dependencies" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72344
[01:34] <Fujitsu> Built fine on 23 September...
[01:34] <LaserJock> yeah, I built it too if I remember right
[01:35] <secretlondon> puc says it should be ok
[01:35] <Fujitsu> xbase-client still exists...
[01:35] <Fujitsu> *clients
[01:35] <geser> is it perhaps because of the missing space before [!s390] ?
[01:36] <LaserJock> ahh, well it's not actually a FTBS but a apt-get build-dep problem
[01:36] <Fujitsu> Thus, not my problem :D
[01:37] <Fujitsu> geser: Looks like it.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> That's legal though, AFAIK.
[01:38] <LaserJock> is it an apt-get bug?
[01:39] <Fujitsu> It doesn't specify in the policy document that a space is required, it just says it has to follow... I think apt-get is following policy, but other things are being more lenient.
[01:42] <LaserJock> I suppose we could forward it upstream
[01:44] <Fujitsu> `it is also conventional to put a single space after each comma, on either side of each vertical bar, and before each open parenthesis.'
[01:44] <Fujitsu> As long as it's not ambiguous, whitespace isn't required...
[01:45] <Fujitsu> So it's a bug in apt-get, although matplotlib isn't following recommendations.
[01:49] <StevenK> It doesn't matter what Policy says, people will screw it up. Hence why I had to rewrite the debian/control parser in Linda 3 or 4 times.
[01:50] <LaserJock> do we have a doc telling people how to file a backport request
[02:09] <LaserJock> oh wow, colin actually wrote something on the forums
[02:10] <LaserJock> this whole "untrusted repo wallpaper" think is really interesting
[02:10] <secretlondon> do you have a link?
[02:10] <minghua> yeah, I was talking with Colin and others when he wrote those comments
[02:10] <minghua> on #ubuntu-devel
[02:11] <plugwash> LaserJock what exactly is the untrusted repo wallpaper?
[02:12] <LaserJock> it was on planet a while back
[02:12] <LaserJock> there was this guy who was giving out a "ultimate sources.list" with like 50 repos
[02:13] <secretlondon> i read that
[02:13] <TheMuso> I remember seeing that.
[02:13] <LaserJock> the owner of one of the 3rd party repos apparently thought it would be good to warn people about the dangers of a 3rd party repo
[02:13] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Which Colin?
[02:13] <TheMuso> I personally would rather stick with the official repos.
[02:13] <LaserJock> so he replaced the wallpaper with a red skull on black background
[02:13] <LaserJock> freaked a bunch of people on the forums out
[02:14] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: Colin Watson
[02:14] <Fujitsu> O_O
[02:14] <secretlondon> the real problem is with the many people who think they need to install automatix style stuff to play mp3s (of which there are loads and loads)
[02:14] <Fujitsu> He wrote something on the forums!?
[02:14] <Fujitsu> Where?
[02:14] <LaserJock> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=297814
[02:14] <LaserJock> http://soijabanaani.net/tmp/the_trevino_story
[02:15] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: The wallpaper also had stuff on it saying how unofficial repos were bad.
[02:15] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:15] <Fujitsu> I'd seen the latter of those some days ago.
[02:15] <LaserJock> well apparently one of the other repos also messed around with fstab and sudoers at the same time
[02:15] <LaserJock> so people got the "skull" wallpaper and were locked out of their computers
[02:15] <LaserJock> awesome timing
[02:16] <Fujitsu> Oooh.
[02:16] <Fujitsu> Impressive.
[02:16] <TheMuso> nasty.
[02:16] <LaserJock> but then some people say the person who did the wallpaper should be kicked out of the community
[02:16] <Fujitsu> ion_ did the right thing.
[02:17] <plugwash> no the person who did the "ultimate sources.list" should be
[02:17] <Fujitsu> So some package actually stuffed with fstab and sudoers? Maliciously?
[02:18] <LaserJock> no
[02:18] <LaserJock> not maliciously
[02:18] <secretlondon> no-one should be kicked out (except the person making the dodgy package) - our users need educating however
[02:18] <LaserJock> just stupidly, or something
[02:19] <LaserJock> well, it certainly freaked people out
[02:19] <LaserJock> as you can see on the threads
[02:19] <plugwash> secretlondon lusers who wan't something installed will go to great lengths to do it even doing things they have been explicitly told not to do
[02:19] <LaserJock> people were formating their disks
[02:19] <plugwash> and there isn't much you can do about it
[02:19] <Fujitsu> ... what possible legitimate reason is there to stuff around with fstab and sudoers?
[02:20] <secretlondon> you can't tell our users that they shouldn't install experimental software if they don't understand ir
[02:20] <plugwash> if you make a distro to appeal to lusers you will have lusers doing stupid stuff
[02:20] <LaserJock> I'm guessing it was unintentional, who knows
[02:20] <LaserJock> anyway, it's an interesting thing
[02:20] <secretlondon> they want the newest, untested stuff - but they can't put it right
[02:20] <TheMuso> That kind of bad quality control is rampent in the Slackware community with third party repos.
[02:20] <secretlondon> it's fascinating and may make some of them think twice
[02:21] <TheMuso> i remember trying to use packages, and they were absolutely horrible.
[02:21] <secretlondon> we have many people using feisty as the newest and shiniest who don't know how to file a bug report
[02:21] <plugwash> one big problem is that ubutu presumablly can't endorse any repositries that host illegal packages
[02:22] <plugwash> but using illegal packages is nessacery for a good media experiance on linux
[02:22] <secretlondon> it's our demographic - if they weren't experimentla they'd still be using windows
[02:22] <Fujitsu> Grrrrrrreat: `Whoever came up with these bogus packages needs several good swift kicks in the posterior, IMHO!'
[02:23] <LaserJock> plugwash: no they aren't
[02:23] <secretlondon> most stuff is in the repos
[02:23] <LaserJock> I had a look at Automatix the other day
[02:23] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You sick, sick person.
[02:24] <LaserJock> I'd guess at least 2/3 of the stuff it was doing 3rd party was already in the repos
[02:24] <secretlondon> I keep telling people off for suggesting it to newbies
[02:24] <plugwash> what is the situation on mp3 decoding nowadays?
[02:24] <Fujitsu> plugwash: You need gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, as always.
[02:24] <secretlondon> plugwash: it's in gstreamer in our repos
[02:24] <LaserJock> plugwash: sure, in edgy for a while it even offered to install it for me
[02:25] <secretlondon> Fujitsu: I lurk on the ubuntu live journal communities and they have all installed automatix after being told to in the forums
[02:25] <plugwash> right, what about wmv?
[02:25] <Fujitsu> AARRRGHHH.
[02:25] <Fujitsu> plugwash: w32codecs is necessary, I believe.
[02:26] <plugwash> Fujitsu and what is the legal status of that package?
[02:26] <LaserJock> plugwash: illegal most places I believe
[02:26] <LaserJock> well, maybe not most
[02:26] <LaserJock> but quite a few
[02:26] <Fujitsu> plugwash: Illegal unless you have a Windows license, and illegal in many places anyway, I believe.
[02:26] <plugwash> right so to play one of the most common video formats you need to use an illegal package which ubuntu presumablly cannot endorse
[02:27] <LaserJock> sure it can
[02:27] <Fujitsu> plugwash: Of course. Thankyou Microsoft.
[02:27] <LaserJock> well, depends on endorse
[02:27] <LaserJock> there are decently trusthworthy repos with that I believe
[02:27] <Fujitsu> I believe Seveas' has it, for example.
[02:27] <secretlondon> wikipedia now has the quote from mdz saying it causes breakage
[02:27] <Seveas> Fujitsu, ?
[02:28] <imbrandon> it does, and frankly wmv,wma is the only thing you cannot play without it
[02:28] <Fujitsu> Seveas: Your repo has w32codecs, doesn't it?
[02:28] <Seveas> it allegedly has
[02:28] <LaserJock> :-)
[02:28] <plugwash> LaserJock right, but ubuntu presumablly can't officially reccomend a repositry with an illegal package in
[02:28] <Seveas> indeed
[02:28] <Seveas> and I wouldn't want to recommend it anyway
[02:29] <Seveas> since there is also stuff in there with breaking chances
[02:29] <secretlondon> its just the w32 package and DeCSS afaik which we can't ship
[02:29] <imbrandon> why would you recomend something you only need to have to play wmv's with ?
[02:29] <imbrandon> other playser play the other formats just fine
[02:30] <LaserJock> imbrandon: some people need wmv support I'd guess :-)
[02:30] <plugwash> so without using illegal packages ubuntu users can't play dvds or wmv files, its no wonder they turn to dodgy repositries
[02:30] <imbrandon> heh
[02:30] <LaserJock> it's not a great situation for sure, it'd be great to say "we can play anything you throw at us" but we can't
[02:30] <LaserJock> plugwash: they can play dvds
[02:30] <secretlondon> not encyrpted ones - which are 99%?
[02:31] <LaserJock> the only thing is MS specific codecs
[02:31] <LaserJock> secretlondon: I believe you can
[02:31] <secretlondon> plugwash: but they think they need them for mp3s too
[02:31] <imbrandon> secretlondon: sure the libdvdread3 packages installes css2
[02:31] <imbrandon> secretlondon: no, mp3 is played by many other codecs
[02:31] <LaserJock> mp3s and dvds can be done with Multiverse packages
[02:31] <TheMuso> I think you can play DVDs without css if your drive has the correct region set.
[02:31] <imbrandon> right
[02:31] <secretlondon> imbrandon: they think we do, i know we don't
[02:32] <TheMuso> But I am not sure.
[02:32] <TheMuso> And IMO xine has better DVD playback than gstreamer.
[02:32] <TheMuso> Due to menus etc.
[02:32] <imbrandon> it boils down to the ONLY thing w32codecs are NEEDED for is wmv's
[02:32] <secretlondon> I wonder if we need a meta package installing all the gstreamer bads and uglies
[02:32] <secretlondon> just to make it easier for them
[02:33] <LaserJock> we do
[02:33] <TheMuso> I personally don't find it too hard to install the gstreamer packages.
[02:33] <imbrandon> secretlondon: nah, there is a install on demad comming for feisty ( already in edgy for kubuntu )
[02:33] <Seveas> !info ubuntu-multimedia-gnome
[02:33] <ubotu> ubuntu-multimedia-gnome: Ubuntu multimedia packages - GNOME version. In component seveas\-meta, is optional. Version 6.10-2 (edgy-seveas), package size 2 kB, installed size 32 kB
[02:33] <imbrandon> that was talked aobut at UDS
[02:33] <secretlondon> ok - because i knw people don't realise how little they need automatix as keep getting feedback about it
[02:34] <LaserJock> I installed an Edgy prerelease
[02:34] <LaserJock> and I forgot to install the mp3 stuff
[02:34] <LaserJock> so I fired up Rhythmbox and tried to play one of my mp3s
[02:35] <LaserJock> it poped up a dialog box saying it couldn't play mp3s and offered to install the packages needed
[02:35] <LaserJock> I hit "Ok" and it did it just fine and mp3s played fine
[02:35] <Fujitsu> Amarok does that now as well.
[02:35] <secretlondon> great
[02:35] <LaserJock> easy as that
[02:36] <imbrandon> actualy amarok did it first :) but anyhow thats getting put in for all codecs for feisty
[02:36] <imbrandon> as i said it was the easy-codec bof
[02:36] <secretlondon> fabulous
[02:36] <imbrandon> but it works for mp3's now in edgy ( that accounts for 80% + of the codec problems )
[02:36] <imbrandon> ok anyhow really afk again
[02:37] <LaserJock> I wish the Automatix people would at least look at this stuff
[02:37] <secretlondon> imbrandon: but they think it doesn't and install helper script thing anyway
[02:37] <LaserJock> same with Opera
[02:37] <LaserJock> they could use the dapper-commercial repo, but they don't
[02:37] <imbrandon> ( and dapper kubuntu too becouse i backported the new amarok with the patch )
[02:37] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I wish the Automatix people would just vanish.
[02:37] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: that's not going to happen
[02:37] <LaserJock> it's wildly popular
[02:37] <Fujitsu> We can hope.
[02:37] <secretlondon> if anything we'll get more of this stuff
[02:38] <LaserJock> many people consider it the salvation of Ubuntu
[02:38] <TheMuso> Do the automatix folks state that it will screw your system in terms of future upgrades?
[02:38] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: I doubt it.
[02:38] <LaserJock> TheMuso: not sure exactly
[02:38] <imbrandon> secretlondon: well thats a issue of ignorance, someone just needs to take the time to inform them ( over and over ) of the "right way" , thats the only way to get it tdone, and frankly i dont have the time to troll the forums to do it, so i rely on others to doso
[02:39] <LaserJock> the problem is that you can't just dismiss it
[02:39] <secretlondon> imbrandon: me neither - I have better things to do. I stop it when I see it on Live Journal - the forums are too big for me (but they are supposedly policed)
[02:39] <LaserJock> imbrandon: that's where forum mod/admin training would be good
[02:40] <imbrandon> oh i know, it cant be dismissed, but i see it as it takes time aweay from coding to doso when some non coder can be informed and help in that way
[02:40] <LaserJock> when I see mods and admins saying the most fantastic FUD I get a little irritated
[02:40] <secretlondon> TheMuso: of course not. wikipedia now does though
[02:40] <TheMuso> But who visits wiipedia to read up on automatix?
[02:40] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Some of them do that!?
[02:40] <imbrandon> hehe
[02:40] <PriceChild> Hey.... we talking about ubuntuforums.org?
[02:41] <secretlondon> TheMuso: some do as they made their own page. I can control wikipedia - I can't control automatix's promotion team
[02:41] <imbrandon> PriceChild: unfortunately
[02:41] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: well the guy who wrote Automatix was an admin or mod
[02:41] <PriceChild> I'd like to point out that I NEVER condone EasyUbuntu
[02:41] <PriceChild> or automatix
[02:41] <Fujitsu> That arnieboy character?
[02:41] <LaserJock> mhm
[02:41] <PriceChild> I always give people documentation from the ubuntu wiki etc.
[02:41] <Fujitsu> Goodo, PriceChild.
[02:41] <LaserJock> PriceChild: we need more like you
[02:41] <PriceChild> not only do they work better...
[02:41] <Fujitsu> I loved arnieboy's manner... It was so nice.
[02:41] <PriceChild> but you learn more about how your system works
[02:42] <PriceChild> and they don't break
[02:42] <LaserJock> the forums need moderation from the mod/admin community not the ubuntu dev community
[02:42] <LaserJock> we simply don't have the time nor sway in the forum community to make a dent
[02:43] <PriceChild> LaserJock: we're hopefully introducing "Forum Ambassadors" who will try and give feedback from the forums to the devs
[02:43] <LaserJock> PriceChild: I know
[02:43] <LaserJock> I hope it works
[02:43] <PriceChild> there's now reason why you couldn't attend the next gobby session and try to get feedback the other way into the spec
[02:43] <PriceChild> because that isn't really there...
[02:43] <LaserJock> well, I was in on the forum thread on it
[02:43] <plugwash> who owns/runs ubuntuforums.net , is it an official thing?
[02:43] <PriceChild> started Unofficially by ryan troy
[02:44] <PriceChild> it is now an official forum
[02:44] <PriceChild> t is coming under more goverance
[02:44] <LaserJock> plugwash: it's hosted by Canonical but "owned" by Ryan Troy
[02:44] <PriceChild> see /forumsgovernance on the wiki
[02:44] <LaserJock> yeah, if the forum governance and ambassadors specs actually work it should help a lot
[02:45] <LaserJock> I'm a little skeptical, but trying to remain optimistic even so
[02:45] <PriceChild> :)
[02:46] <PriceChild> everyone'll sort it out eventually....
[02:48] <PriceChild> the main issue with the governance is that "it"s working right now... we don't want to change "it" too much
[02:49] <PriceChild> I think both parties are happy with what we have in the wiki now though... I just don't know when it'll be officially announced/taken out of spec
[02:50] <PriceChild> I think Mark and Ryan have to make a final "ok"
[02:50] <secretlondon> ryan is dictator for life though?
[02:50] <PriceChild> yeah finally got that agreed
[02:51] <PriceChild> sabdffl
[02:51] <PriceChild> :P
[02:51] <PriceChild> FC is basically the same format as the CC
[02:54] <imbrandon> and answers to the CC
[02:54] <PriceChild> yup
[02:54] <PriceChild> which... all going well, it shouldn't have to :)
[02:55] <imbrandon> given the forum history ..... bah, never mind, forums are on my mind way too much, nothing should take this much of my time unwillingly
[02:55] <PriceChild> forum history.... :S
[02:55] <PriceChild> I've only been a mod a little over a month
[02:56] <PriceChild> I was just amazed what I discovered when appointed
[02:56] <secretlondon> more unofficial forum stuff - a forum bug patch on bug #72388
[02:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72388 in kubuntu-meta "Flac files not work in dapper/Amarok 1.4.3 and Kde 3.5.2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72388
[02:56] <secretlondon> which we definately don't want them to be doing.
[02:57] <LaserJock> well, the forums governance currently is a pretty broken system to me
[02:57] <imbrandon> strange thing since 1.4.4 is in dapper ( backports ) and flac works fine ( if you have libxine-extracodes like i told the submitter 4 or 5 times he filed the bug before )
[02:57] <LaserJock> I hope the specs will knock some sense into people
[02:58] <imbrandon> one can hope
[02:58] <PriceChild> I'm confused... we don't want who doing what?
[02:58] <elkbuntu> some people doesnt always mean the right people
[02:58] <kgoetz> does any of the ubuntu building doco cover changing applications build switches using apt-get -b or dpkg-buildpackage?
[02:58] <secretlondon> PriceChild: we don't want unofficial patches doing the rounds
[02:58] <PriceChild> ah k
[02:58] <secretlondon> because there is 0 qualkity control
[02:58] <PriceChild> yup
[02:58] <LaserJock> kgoetz: not very well, it's planned for the next version of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[02:59] <kgoetz> LaserJock: ah ok. any thoughts where would i look for info?
[03:00] <LaserJock> kgoetz: on how to do it? apt-get source <package>, make changes, dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot (after installing fakeroot)
[03:02] <kgoetz> if i just want to recompile witha  different switch though, is it the same process, or so i have to set $stuff up first?
[03:03] <LaserJock> kgoetz: you'll need to apt-get build-deps <packagename>
[03:03] <kgoetz> got them... and g'bye
[03:11] <joejaxx> fun
[03:12] <joejaxx> ajmitch: was the ian jackson at uds the same one who wrote the man pages for dpkg?
[03:12] <joejaxx> or the some of the man pages
[03:13] <ajmitch> joejaxx: probably the same guy
[03:13] <joejaxx> ok
[03:15] <azeem> he wrote dpkg, so probably the man pages as well
[03:17] <joejaxx> oh alright i was just wondering
[03:18] <joejaxx> and wanted to make sure
[03:18] <joejaxx> :)
[03:20] <joejaxx> ajmitch: azeem i must have met alot of people at uds that i did not know about
[03:20] <joejaxx> or did not linke with a ircname
[03:20] <joejaxx> lol
[03:20] <joejaxx> link*
[03:21] <joejaxx> i was glad people started putting their ircnames under their real names
[03:22] <PriceChild> ha ha
[03:22] <Fujitsu> Nametags should really have IRC nicks as well :P
[03:22] <PriceChild> It is such an amazing thing... haven't such a huge community who have never even seen each other
[03:24] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: :p
[03:24] <joejaxx> PriceChild: yeah
[03:24] <joejaxx> i think my nametag was the only one that had my ircname on it as my real name
[03:25] <TheMuso> I remember my name tag had my IRC name.
[03:25] <TheMuso> In paris.
[03:25] <joejaxx> TheMuso: really? lol
[03:26] <joejaxx> it said TheMuso?
[03:26] <joejaxx> " "
[03:26] <TheMuso> Afaik yes.
[03:26] <joejaxx> that is funny
[03:27] <TheMuso> Although it could have said anything and I may not have known. :)
[03:28] <joejaxx> :P
[03:28] <elkbuntu> joejaxx, there was one with your real name as well
[03:30] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: really?
[03:31] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: i did not see it up there when i looked on the first day
[03:31] <Hobbsee> hey all
[03:31] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[03:31] <elkbuntu> joejaxx, it didnt have the numerals, but there was a 'joseph jackson', i noticed it about mid-week
[03:34] <joejaxx> lol
[03:34] <joejaxx> i was looking for one with my real name on it too
[03:34] <joejaxx> oh well too late now
[03:38] <PriceChild> Hey Hobbsee :)
[03:38] <ajmitch> Hobbsee!
[03:39] <_MMA_> Hey guys. Is Ices2 and Icecast synced from Debian?
[03:40] <_MMA_> Im actually wondering about Ices0 which I cant fins in Universe.
[03:40] <_MMA_> But I find Ices2.
[03:40] <joejaxx> ices2 - Ogg Vorbis streaming source for Icecast 2
[03:40] <_MMA_> yes
[03:41] <secretlondon> is ices0 an older version?
[03:41] <_MMA_> its the MP3 streamer
[03:42] <imbrandon> ices2 is for icecast2 , ices0 is for icecast
[03:42] <secretlondon> ah - maybe debian doesn't ship it
[03:42] <imbrandon> one is oog one is mp3
[03:42] <_MMA_> Wait. With Ices2, is the stream Vorbis or does the source have to be vorbis?
[03:42] <imbrandon> ogg*
[03:42] <imbrandon> ices2 will take any input, but the output is always vorbis
[03:42] <secretlondon> _MMA_ I can't remember but its in the ices docs
[03:43] <_MMA_> Ahh... That works also. Thanx Brandon.
[03:43] <imbrandon> ices0 will also take any input but only output mp3
[03:43] <_MMA_> So anything that works with Icecast shouldnt care about the stream?
[03:44] <_MMA_> "Player wise"
[03:44] <imbrandon> correct
[03:44] <_MMA_> Thanx
[03:49] <imbrandon> secretlondon: you gonna get on and dj for us ?
[03:49] <imbrandon> hehe
[03:52] <Hobbsee> hey PriceChild and ajmitch
[03:52] <PriceChild> Heya :)
[03:52] <Hobbsee> how are our SRU's going?
[03:52] <PriceChild> SRU? :)
[03:52] <ajmitch> no idea, I don't deal with SRU :)
[03:53] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: who does?    it seems that we now have a forum thread as well as a bug report + 1 dupe now
[03:53] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: stable release updates
[03:53] <PriceChild> he he ok
[03:53] <PriceChild> mine's pretty good
[03:53] <PriceChild> i "think" i've sorted all your issues out...
[03:53] <secretlondon> imbrandon: I haven't got the net to dj atm - but I do need to work out how to stream from linux as I used to use sam3 under windows
[03:53] <PriceChild> i've got a niggling feeling i've been silly and missed one though
[03:53] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: yay :)
[03:53] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: the SRU team, of course
[03:55] <PriceChild> right i need sleep
[03:55] <PriceChild> night all
[03:57] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: has it been sorted yet?
[03:57] <ajmitch> of course
[03:57] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: ie, the team?
[03:57] <ajmitch> about 2 weeks ago
[03:58] <ajmitch> launchpad.net/people/motu-sru
[04:09] <Hobbsee> oh right
[04:11] <minghua> I can't really trust the docs on help.ubuntu.com, can I?
[04:14] <minghua> indeed it does: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/wxMaxima
[04:14] <imbrandon> fit it !! hhehe
[04:14] <imbrandon> ( it is a wiki )
[04:16] <minghua> hmm, it seems indeed I can edit it
[04:16] <minghua> what's the point of keeping help.ubuntu.com/community/ and wiki.ubuntu.com separate then?
[04:17] <imbrandon> minghua: there is much more than help document tation on wiki.u.c , h.u.c/community is primarly community contributed help
[04:18] <imbrandon> wiki.u.c is not a place for help docs, rather dev's wiki pages, specs, etc
[04:18] <imbrandon> ( with the exception of the MOTU dev team docs )
[04:18] <joejaxx> ajmitch: diversion is not going to work with the fluxbox package i do not think
[04:19] <minghua> imbrandon: I think I can see the idea, but does that apply to reality?
[04:19] <imbrandon> minghua: yes , actualy it does
[04:19] <minghua> I remember seeing a lot of help docs on wiki.u.c, but I admit that was early days
[04:19] <imbrandon> one of the few things that works as it should for the most part
[04:19] <minghua> cool
[04:19] <imbrandon> minghua: yes this transition was made mid dapper cycle
[04:20] <joejaxx> i was wondering why stuff was moved
[04:20] <minghua> maybe I should revise the input method related pages on help.u.c/community/
[04:25] <joejaxx> where do the stories about ubuntu get pulled from on the fridge?
[04:29] <elkbuntu> joejaxx, whatever the fridge team gets informed about, basically
[04:30] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: ah ok
[04:30] <joejaxx> wow nice they still have the old artwork up
[04:30] <imbrandon> joejaxx: whenever someone on the fridge either 1) wites about it themselfs 2) gets poked in #ubuntu-fridge or 3) gets emailed at fridge-devel@ubuntu.com
[04:30] <elkbuntu> if you have any ideas for stories for fridge or UWN, feel free to forward details on
[04:31] <joejaxx> imbrandon: oh ok
[04:31] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: alright i will
[04:36] <elkbuntu> joejaxx, as mentioned above, #ubuntu-fridge for fridgy stuff, for UWN, poke people in #ubuntu-marketing or add it yourself https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter is a good place to look
[04:38] <imbrandon> or email fridge-devel@u.c also for UWN iirc most UWN editors ( i know myself and cory and matt east ) are all on that list too
[04:38] <imbrandon> ( mostly )
[04:38] <imbrandon> either way(s) it all gets to the right place mostly :)
[04:40] <elkbuntu> that goes for all of you too.. give us all teh juicy gossip!
[04:41] <elkbuntu> lol
[04:43] <imbrandon> if adobe would get off their arse and post PS to linux i would not need osx at all ( although it is nice to have something just work(tm) while i work on kubuntu :)
[04:43] <Hobbsee> hah, yes
[04:44] <hub> imbrandon: what's wrong with gimp
[04:44] <imbrandon> hahaha , hub your joking right?
[04:44] <hub> no
[04:44] <joejaxx> lol
[04:45] <hub> i'm interested in opinions
[04:45] <imbrandon> first off the interface, 2nd poor image rendering, no svg support , and TONS of other things
[04:45] <hub> gimpshop
[04:45] <hub> time to push it in ubuntu
[04:45] <hub> 2nd, I don't see a problem, but it is subjective
[04:45] <imbrandon> gimp is ok for someone just playing arround and never used pro software before, but anyone else its like asking a MS word user to use notepad
[04:45] <hub> 3rd SVG? it does not support it as import and render?
[04:45] <imbrandon> gimp shop dosent help any
[04:46] <imbrandon> and no it dosent
[04:46] <imbrandon> not natively
[04:46] <joejaxx> impilinux?
[04:46] <joejaxx> is that the name of that os?
[04:46] <minghua> Debian's gimp-svg works quite well for my SVG files
[04:47] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, well there is *some* svg support.
[04:47] <imbrandon> minghua: yea to import them into a bitmap, not to manipulate them
[04:47] <elkbuntu> you can *open* them... :
[04:47] <hub> imbrandon: gimp is not a vector drawing application
[04:47] <imbrandon> wow, thats really helpfull *rolls eyes* hehe
[04:47] <minghua> imbrandon: well, then you used the wrong tool, I suppose
[04:47] <hub> so manipulating SVG....
[04:47] <hub> inkscape will do it
[04:48] <imbrandon> why use 2 tools for the same job? when i've used one just fine for years with lots better support
[04:48] <elkbuntu> hub, that means you need two programs, rather than one
[04:48] <hub> elkbuntu: like with photoshop and illustrator
[04:48] <hub> so what is the deal
[04:48] <imbrandon> especialy when a svg incorperates bitmaped artwork, that becomes a major pain
[04:49] <elkbuntu> hub, they at least talk to each other
[04:49] <hub> (given that it was the original point of comparison)
[04:49] <imbrandon> hub: but IL and PS work as one
[04:49] <imbrandon> and install as one
[04:49] <imbrandon> etc, its like gcc without a linker
[04:49] <hub> no
[04:49] <imbrandon> kinda useless
[04:49] <hub> no
[04:49] <joejaxx> imbrandon: what about tuxpaint? :( j/k
[04:49] <hub> it is like word and excel
[04:49] <hub> or abiword and gnumeric
[04:49] <joejaxx> imbrandon: :)
[04:50] <imbrandon> hub: not exactly, what happens when you have vecor art that uses bitmaped art, that happens a TON
[04:50] <imbrandon> so its like gcc + no linker
[04:50] <hub> no
[04:51] <hub> I agree that inscape and gimp not talking together lack
[04:51] <hub> but it is not gcc and no linker
[04:51] <hub> absolutely not
[04:51] <elkbuntu> similar effect
[04:51] <imbrandon> sure it is
[04:51] <imbrandon> and thats just one of the many reasons anyhow as i said :)
[04:51] <imbrandon> its all the little things that make a diffrence
[04:52] <imbrandon> and gimpshop is a bad attempt to make a horrible interface semi better
[04:52] <imbrandon> gimp was written with a programer in mind, not intutive at all
[04:52] <elkbuntu> they even admit that somewhere
[04:52] <imbrandon> open gimp for the first time in your life and draw a circle
[04:53] <imbrandon> or even a square overlay
[04:53] <imbrandon> gimp is a great tool for those that dont spend time in it daily , or for a programer to get sometihng "done" but its not near a PS replacement
[04:53] <hub> it is for A LOT OF USERS
[04:53] <hub> surely not you
[04:54] <elkbuntu> hub, which did you use more of first? photoshop or gimp?
[04:54] <imbrandon> hub: i dident say it wasent, but as i said, i serousily doubt any of them do it professionaly, and for those that do it simply dosent cut it
[04:54] <hub> elkbuntu: last time I used photoshop was 3.0
[04:55] <hub> elkbuntu: I don;t have 800 bucks to spend on it
[04:55] <elkbuntu> hub, coming from .. 8? is a whole different story
[04:55] <imbrandon> 1100 but yea
[04:55] <elkbuntu> wtf is the current version number :
[04:55] <imbrandon> 9
[04:55] <imbrandon> cs2 actualy
[04:55] <hub> CS2
[04:55] <hub> the one that is slow as hell on Intel :-)
[04:55] <hub> (talk about support)
[04:56] <hub> (but I digress)
[04:56] <imbrandon> wow , thats amazing as its geared to an intel compiler ( not amd or ppc )
[04:56] <imbrandon> ( that info is in the about box )
[04:56] <imbrandon> but anyhow, /me gets back to something productive
[04:56] <hub> imbrandon: on Mac?
[04:57] <imbrandon> windows or mac ( universal binary )
[04:58] <hub> on mac CS2 is PowerPC only
[04:58] <hub> it runs in the emulator, slower
[04:59] <ajmitch> joejaxx: how different is it from the bottle dance?
[04:59] <joejaxx> hmm well there is more arm flailing like this
[05:00] <joejaxx> \ 0 /   \ \o
[05:00] <joejaxx> o //
[05:00] <joejaxx> \o/
[05:00] <Hobbsee> what's the MOTU dance?
[05:00] <ajmitch> surely you dance..
[05:01] <Hobbsee> nope
[05:01] <joejaxx> then the feet >>  L _|   _| _|   L L
[05:01] <joejaxx> _| |_
[05:01] <joejaxx> Lol
[05:01] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I don't believe you
[05:01] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: and why not?
[05:01] <joejaxx> what format is xar?
[05:02] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: because I just don't
[05:02] <ajmitch> so there
[05:03] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: fine then.  but i still dont dance :P
[05:04] <ajmitch> I'm sure we can make you dance :)
[05:04] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: think we could convince her at LCA?
[05:04] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, the real question is, think we can get evidence?
[05:04] <ajmitch> evidence is easy
[05:04] <joejaxx> Lol
[05:05] <elkbuntu> without her attacking our cameras with the long pointy stick?
[05:05] <ajmitch> hide them well
[05:05] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: maybe after a couple of cans of coke.  maybe
[05:05] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: Lol
[05:05] <elkbuntu> what about red cordial?
[05:05] <ajmitch> besides, she's really nice & kind & not violent at all in person...
[05:06] <joejaxx> ajmitch: in a hat you can hide the optical snapshot device
[05:06] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: you assume that i'll be at LCA
[05:06] <ajmitch> you assume I will be as well
[05:06] <ajmitch> what will stop you from going?
[05:07] <elkbuntu> if ajmitch can make it, you have no excuse
[05:07] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: who knows if i'm in the country :P
[05:07] <ajmitch> running off somewhere?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: and you assume that i wont be working
[05:07] <Hobbsee> perhaps :)
[05:08] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: see, the slightest mention of me coming to australia & she runs away
[05:08] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:08] <elkbuntu> haha
[05:08] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i have to pick up my sharper axe
[05:09] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: does elkbuntu code much though?
[05:09] <ajmitch> not yet, afaik :)
[05:09] <elkbuntu> heh, i've got enough going on without coding/packaging
[05:10] <Hobbsee> she can just do everything else
[05:10] <ajmitch> so do the rest of us
[05:10] <joejaxx> the MOTU dance should be a requirement Lol
[05:11] <ajmitch> you won't catch me doing it
[05:11] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: sure?
[05:11] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: you'd like to do it!
[05:11] <ajmitch> nah
[05:12] <ajmitch> I'll leave the dancing to others
[05:12] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: does that mean you're a MOTU?
[05:12] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: no
[05:12] <joejaxx> but i know the motu dance
[05:12] <Hobbsee> awww
[05:13] <joejaxx> i do not think me being a motu is going to happen anytime soon Lol
[05:13] <ajmitch> probably the only one who knows this mythical dance
[05:13] <joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah :p
[05:13] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: so it's the MOTU-wannabe dance
[05:13] <joejaxx> LOL
[05:13] <ajmitch> good, I don't have to do it then
[05:14] <ajmitch> we'll still get you dancing one day...
[05:14] <Hobbsee> no you wont
[05:14] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, if you dont dance, how can you expect Hobbsee to?
[05:14] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: simple hypocrisy, I have no problem with it :)
[05:15] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: dancing with you, probably
[05:15] <ajmitch> besides, you've seen me attempt to dance
[05:15] <elkbuntu> you did?
[05:15] <ajmitch> I was there that night of the bottle dance, remember?
[05:15] <elkbuntu> yes, those are the photos im going to
[05:15] <ajmitch> hopefully I'm in none of those photos
[05:17] <elkbuntu> of.. course.. not....
[05:17] <Hobbsee> i bet you are, ajmitch
[05:17] <ajmitch> :P
[05:17] <elkbuntu> cant see you in any of the dancing pics
[05:17] <ajmitch> yay
[05:18] <elkbuntu> well.. there are pics that do not involve dancing that may well involve you
[05:18] <ajmitch> never
[05:18] <Hobbsee> yes, what was ajmitch doing instead of dancing?
[05:19] <elkbuntu> at one point, talking to the leslie, at another point talking to evan and colin
[05:19] <ajmitch> usually talking to evan, especially about migration assistant
[05:20] <ajmitch> plotting how we could share some ideas/code
[05:20] <Hobbsee> being generally evil, yes
[05:21] <ajmitch> so quick to think I'm evil
[05:21] <elkbuntu> it's not a thought, ajmitch. we *know*
[05:21] <joejaxx> where is the login splash in gnome set?
[05:21] <joejaxx> the one after youlogin?
[05:21] <Hobbsee> gdm??
[05:22] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: no after you login
[05:22] <ajmitch> after login
[05:22] <Hobbsee> oh right
[05:22] <joejaxx> the one that says ubuntu on it
[05:22] <joejaxx> :P
[05:22] <minghua> ajmitch: bug 72387 is probably the bug we hit (at least it's the one I hit)
[05:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72387 in lvm-common "Incorrect dependency in initramfs script, system fails to boot. Patch attached" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72387
[05:22] <ajmitch> probably gnome-session somewhere
[05:22] <kgoetz> is there a best way to search for what a variable means in a makefile? $DIST is the one i'm after specifically
[05:23] <joejaxx> bbl
[05:23] <ajmitch> edgy-session-splashes: /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ubuntu-splash.png
[05:24] <ajmitch> minghua: wonderful
[05:24] <ajmitch> minghua: I bet that the mdadm script changed name
[05:25] <ajmitch> since lvm-common hasn't changed
[05:25] <minghua> ajmitch: unfortunately I lost my aptitude log so I can't confirm, but yes, I agree
[05:26] <minghua> I don't remember anything lvm related changing
[05:27] <ajmitch> it didn't, I checked the changelog
[05:27] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: how about you deal with bug 72399
[05:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72399 in Ubuntu "ati driver install incompatible with Edgy " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72399
[05:27] <minghua> kgoetz: variable can generally mean anything in makefile, they are just a symbol
[05:27] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: no thanks, that's your job
[05:27] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i dont have an ati card.  and you'd do it so much better
[05:27] <kgoetz> minghua: ok
[05:28] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: neither do I :)
[05:28] <kgoetz> i'll see what damage i can do then :)
[05:41] <joejaxx> ajmitch: thanks
[05:42] <ajmitch> joejaxx: hm?
[05:42] <joejaxx> ajmitch: the path to the splash
[05:42] <ajmitch> oh right
[05:43] <ajmitch> given that libldap2-dev is from openldap2
[05:43] <ajmitch> I guess debian hasn't had problems..
[05:44] <joejaxx> ajmitch: /win 31
[05:44] <joejaxx> bah
[05:44] <ajmitch> only 31?
[05:45] <joejaxx> no actually i am in 50 or so
[05:45] <ajmitch> only 50? :)
[05:45] <joejaxx> 53
[05:45] <joejaxx> that is a minimum for me LOl
[05:45] <joejaxx> normally i hit as high as 90
[05:46] <joejaxx> LOl
[05:46] <joejaxx> fun
[05:46] <joejaxx> haha
[05:46] <ajmitch> highest I've had is about 105
[05:46] <joejaxx> wow
[05:46] <ajmitch> irssi ftw :)
[05:46] <joejaxx> yes :)
[05:46] <joejaxx> i do not know if any other irc client could handle that many
[05:46] <joejaxx> at once
[05:46] <ajmitch> yay, kde breakage
[05:46] <joejaxx> lol
[05:47] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: which breakage?
[05:47] <ajmitch> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/kdebase-data_4%3a3.5.5a.dfsg.1-1ubuntu5_all.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kinfocenter/cdinfo/index.cache.bz2', which is also in package kcontrol
[05:47] <minghua> I had kdebase-data breakage yesterday too
[05:47] <minghua> rerunning aptitude solves it
[05:47] <ajmitch> missing Replaces, I presume
[05:47] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i asked sivang to file that yesterday, and subscribe me to it.  no idea if he did.  and i didnt do that
[05:48] <ajmitch> since it goes fine 2nd time round
[05:48] <ajmitch> usual issues when moving files
[05:57] <joejaxx> anyone know how the new usplashes work?
[05:58] <ajmitch> Seveas does, if you can find him
[05:58] <joejaxx> oh ok
[06:00] <joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah probably so
[06:01] <joejaxx> ajmitch: i changed everything back except the usplash
[06:09] <joejaxx> when does feisty universe open after sync+merge right?
[06:09] <joejaxx> i mean for package submission that is
[06:11] <minghua> I believe you can submit new packages now
[06:12] <imbrandon> now
[06:26] <Simon80> yeah, feisty's open
[06:26] <Simon80> look at the topic, hahaha
[06:27] <Mez> feisty's been open for over a week
[06:29] <Simon80> so, can anybody recommend a split package howto?
[06:29] <joejaxx> Simon80: i have been in here for a very long time
[06:29] <Mez> Simon80, dont know if there are howtos
[06:29] <crimsun> what language?
[06:29] <joejaxx>  /join wise
[06:29] <Mez> a new package, or splitting a current one ?
[06:29] <Simon80> either or
[06:29] <Simon80> just how to
[06:30] <Simon80> I mean, I have an existing single
[06:30] <crimsun> my favourite example of one in python is quodlibet
[06:30] <Simon80> should I just source that?
[06:31] <crimsun> well, is your example in python?
[06:31] <Simon80> no, but that doesn't matter, right, we're just dumping files
[06:31] <joejaxx> ok good i have until febuary
[06:31] <crimsun> well, sure, then.
[06:31] <joejaxx> february*
[06:32] <crimsun> cdbs makes splitting ridiculously simple
[06:32] <Simon80> am I missing a reason why it would matter? :)
[06:32] <Simon80> oh, and um.. I don't know how to use cdbs
[06:32] <Simon80> :)
[06:32] <crimsun> well, there may be better examples for different languages
[06:32] <Simon80> got my dh_made package
[06:32] <joejaxx> feature freeze and upstream freeze are in february :)
[06:44] <Simon80> well, unless it's an example of binary + data..
[06:45] <Simon80> I'm just gonna see what dh_make dumps into debian/ and take it from there... this is rather annoying though, gentoo has better docs, but not as good distro :(
[06:48] <Simon80> hmm, before I go ahead, is it important to use release tarballs rather than release-tagged cvs source?
[06:50] <minghua> Simon80: released tarballs are usually preferred
[06:50] <imbrandon> tarbals are prefered
[06:50] <Simon80> the reason I'm asking is that the tarball is split, sort of how I'm going to split this package
[06:50] <Simon80> but if I use that, and they change how they make tarballs in the future, it's extra work
[06:51] <Simon80> they're not gonna change how the cvs repo is structured, that's a lot more work
[06:51] <Simon80> for them
[06:51] <imbrandon> if they change how the tarbals are released, then its a good reason to reexamine the pagaging too
[06:51] <imbrandon> packaging*
[06:52] <Simon80> ok
[06:52] <Simon80> I suppose I'd have to do that anyway
[06:52] <Simon80> .....but not necessarily
[06:53] <Simon80> cause, they haven't released in a year, by the time they do, they might just wing it differently
[06:53] <imbrandon> right, you want to stay as close to upstream as possible , within reason, unless you have a very good reason to change something
[06:53] <Simon80> ok
[06:53] <Simon80> upstream release, you mean
[06:54] <Simon80> cause to be clear, I'm not really changing anything, just grabbing it from cvs rather than from sf.net mirrors
[06:54] <imbrandon> upstream anything, if they split it in a certain way , there is usaly a reason for it, and debian will normaly follow that reason unless there is a larger reason say dfsg for changeing it
[06:55] <Simon80> I was even going to split it the same way
[06:55] <Simon80> at least if I use the tarballs, I won't have to learn how to do split debs........
[06:56] <Simon80> I definitely find this process painful compared to ebuilds
[06:57] <imbrandon> heh well i seen you mentioned gentoo's doc's earlier too, think about it like this, gentoo is a meta distro, you HAVE to have doc's because thats basicly the whole distro, you lkearn tyo build the same system the same way as someone else
[06:57] <imbrandon> :)
[06:57] <Simon80> lol
[06:57] <Simon80> GFS
[06:57] <imbrandon> gfs?
[06:57] <Simon80> gentoo from scratch
[06:58] <Simon80> I was talking about their ebuild howto though, it beats learning how to make debs
[06:58] <imbrandon> heh, there realy isnt any other way ( and dont say stage 3 , i know -0- people that use only stage 3 and no other softweare )
[06:58] <Simon80> the one area their system falls flat is usage... sooo slow
[06:58] <Simon80> but from the dev side it's sweet
[06:58] <imbrandon> StevenK: its basicly a makefile
[06:58] <imbrandon> :)
[06:59] <Simon80> before you say anything, think about how their scripts are separate from sources
[06:59] <imbrandon> makefile + watchfile
[06:59] <imbrandon> Simon80: so our ours, everything is in /debian
[06:59] <imbrandon> :)
[06:59] <Simon80> so you can ebuild skype or something without needing to redist
[06:59] <Simon80> I guess that's not a "feature" for debian folk
[06:59] <imbrandon> right liek i said a watchfile + makefile
[07:00] <Simon80> what do you mean by watchfile, Changelog?
[07:00] <imbrandon> but that requires a user to want to compile something
[07:00] <imbrandon> watchfile, tells the deb where to get the upstream tarbal
[07:00] <imbrandon> e.g. 1/2 ebuild :)
[07:00] <Simon80> imbrandon: they could use binary ebuilds with minor changes to portage, but it would mean compiler transitions and all that nonsense
[07:01] <imbrandon> could and do are diffrent though :)
[07:01] <Simon80> seems to me that they could, at least
[07:01] <StevenK> Some things are already provided in binary form, for example, openoffice
[07:01] <Simon80> that's different
[07:01] <Simon80> cause if they did it on a large scale, it wouldn't be split out
[07:01] <imbrandon> yea GRP files, i know but tey are always out of date and hard to find
[07:01] <Mez> Simon80, compiler transitions are all part of the fun :D
[07:02] <Simon80> and also, openoffice-bin is not prebuilt, it's the official openoffice binaries
[07:02] <imbrandon> kde is still on 3.4 GRP files
[07:02] <imbrandon> etc
[07:02] <Simon80> I don't mean grp though
[07:02] <Simon80> I mean debian style repos for after the fact
[07:02] <imbrandon> i'm talking on a large scale, for every package, if they were all in binary form why use gentoo >
[07:02] <Simon80> too much effort for gentoo though, they're already short enough as is
[07:02] <kgoetz> sabdfl's blog (from a few weeks back) meantions ubuntu made iceweasel and firefox debs 'in case'. would it be posible to get the iceweasel debs?,
[07:03] <Simon80> gentoo is flexible, that's why I use it, not cause of the source
[07:03] <imbrandon> kgoetz: you would have to ask ian probably, he is the current "maintainer "
[07:03] <Simon80> the source thing's part of that though, cause you can just recompile everything and the compiler transition is done
[07:03] <Simon80> takes like, a week though
[07:04] <kgoetz> imbrandon: thanks. i'll go find deails on LP
[07:04] <kgoetz> *his
[07:04] <Simon80> I have somewhere around 500-600 ebuilds merged
[07:04] <imbrandon> Simon80: you can in debian based ones too "apt-get source -b blah"  <-- grabs the source and builds it
[07:04] <Simon80> yeah, but you don't get use flags, copious example configs, no default settings (I love that one, lol)
[07:05] <kgoetz> you can use flags. you just edit apt.conf
[07:05] <imbrandon> sure you can vi the debian/rules file and change to your hearts content
[07:05] <StevenK> I remember seeing a hook for apt that downloads the buildd log for a package and scrolls it past while you download and install a package.
[07:05] <Simon80> kgoetz, I don't mean CFLAGS
[07:05] <Simon80> StevenK: lmao
[07:06] <Simon80> oh man, that's funny... I think I'm done laughing
[07:06] <Simon80> debian for ricers
[07:06] <Simon80> that's sort of like X forwarding firefox to my 770
[07:06] <imbrandon> StevenK: hahaha would make a ricer feel at home
[07:06] <Simon80> look, it's firefox!
[07:07] <imbrandon> or emerging kde :) look i compiled kde ( in 48 hours ) /me stops , hehehe
[07:08] <elkbuntu> indeed
[07:08] <kgoetz> imbrandon: ian jackson?
[07:08] <imbrandon> kgoetz: yes
[07:08] <StevenK> waves, even
[07:08] <kgoetz> thanks
[07:09] <imbrandon> lol
[07:10] <StevenK> elkbuntu: :-P
[07:10] <joejaxx> REVU UPLOADSS WILL NEVERR CEASEEE
[07:10] <joejaxx> "    "
[07:10] <joejaxx> is what it says
[07:12] <imbrandon> joejaxx: ummm what are you talking about ?
[07:12] <StevenK> Nice way to make it difficult to file sync requests. :-/
[07:12] <imbrandon> StevenK: hehe
[07:12] <joejaxx> imbrandon: .flac
[07:12] <joejaxx> audio
[07:12] <Simon80> meh, once gentoo is up, it's more work than ubuntu, but still, I don't have to worry about dist-upgrading
[07:12] <imbrandon> no i mean with the revu shout
[07:13] <joejaxx> 22:10  * joejaxx decodes flac
[07:13] <joejaxx> 22:10 < joejaxx> is what it says
[07:13] <imbrandon> Simon80: no you dont, you just have to worry about constantly emerging new versions
[07:13] <StevenK> elkbuntu: Did I read somewhere that you have a bunch of Edgy CDs?
[07:13] <joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah it was a badjoke
[07:13] <elkbuntu> StevenK, i do have some, however jellyware has the shipment
[07:14] <Simon80> imbrandon: is that not like apt-get update?
[07:14] <StevenK> elkbuntu: So I can't hit you up for some? :-P
[07:14] <Simon80> emerge --sync takes a year, I know, but I mean, a lot less trouble than dist-upgrade breaking stuff
[07:14] <imbrandon> not really, more like apt-get dist-upgrade ( dependancys )
[07:14] <elkbuntu> StevenK, quantity dependant
[07:14] <Simon80> the breakage is gradual
[07:15] <imbrandon> Simon80: hrm dist upgrade rarely breaks things for me, very rarely, unless i have some 3rd party crap, but i know better
[07:15] <Simon80> yeah
[07:15] <imbrandon> i dist upgrade 2 or 3 times daily most of the time
[07:15] <Simon80> now that I package, so do I
[07:15] <StevenK> elkbuntu: I like the pressed ones. I was after 1 or 2 for myself. But only if you can swing it.
[07:15] <minghua> in debian if you dist-upgrade from one stable release to a new stable release things should never break
[07:15] <Simon80> imbrandon: I meant dist-upgrade edgy-feisty, etc.
[07:16] <elkbuntu> StevenK, sure, i can manage that. pm details?
[07:16] <Simon80> the other thing is that when something new comes out, I want it now, not 6 months, or even a year
[07:16] <imbrandon> Simon80: ahh well thats not the only dist upgrade, dist-upgrade is a daily thing too, but as minghua said
[07:16] <Simon80> that's my initial reason to switch
[07:16] <imbrandon> Simon80: then run the dev release
[07:16] <Simon80> but the dev release breaks
[07:16] <Simon80> I tried that
[07:16] <Simon80> not usable much
[07:17] <imbrandon> hrm yes it breaks but as does anything if you get the "new hotness right away
[07:17] <Simon80> not really, with gentoo, if I get something new and it breaks things, I can mask it
[07:17] <imbrandon> but not useable is an overstatement
[07:17] <imbrandon> sure and with debian you can pin it
[07:17] <Simon80> well, early in the cycle, I got dapper, had not so good luck there, IIRC
[07:17] <imbrandon> same thing
[07:18] <Simon80> you can't pin it if they remove the old version from the repos
[07:18] <Simon80> great in theory, spoiled by that in practice
[07:18] <imbrandon> its in your apt-cache, nah works very well on many many systems i have here
[07:18] <crimsun> dude, gotta have the latest crack[ful packages] 
[07:19] <imbrandon> point is they both have merits , depends on where yuor priorities are
[07:19] <Simon80> yeah
[07:19] <imbrandon> but debian can do anything gentoo can and vice versa, its just how its done
[07:20] <imbrandon> and the hoops you have to go through
[07:20] <Simon80>  I wouldn't say anything, they're both specialized to some degree
[07:20] <Simon80> I mean, anything yes, if you want a bloody forehead
[07:20] <Simon80> but I don't
[07:20] <imbrandon> but as i started off saying you cant compare ebuilds to deb's , genttos equiv to an deb is a grp file
[07:21] <Simon80> well, no, you could compare ebuilds to deb-src, and ebuilds win out for me, nice and easy to write
[07:21] <Simon80> and can get around redist legality issues
[07:21] <imbrandon> as you can with other debian mirrors too
[07:21] <imbrandon> :)
[07:21] <Simon80> how so?
[07:22] <Simon80> amd I hope ubuntu's firefox builds aren't slow still
[07:22] <crimsun> eh, only _some_ redist issues
[07:22] <imbrandon> look at seveas.imbrandon.com or debian-multimedia.org
[07:22] <Simon80> yeah, but that's still illegal
[07:22] <crimsun> and feisty's ff 2.0 has been blessed by mozilla
[07:22] <crimsun> err, edgy's
[07:22] <Simon80> hmm
[07:22] <imbrandon> no, its only ileagle if its used in the wrong place
[07:22] <Simon80> cause I wasn't imagining the slowness in breezy
[07:22] <crimsun> that was due to cairo, in part
[07:22] <Simon80> switching tabs was slow with the package, faster with the bins
[07:23] <imbrandon> just as an ebuild
[07:23] <crimsun> it has been disabled except for certain langs in edgy
[07:23] <Simon80> seems to still be doing that
[07:23] <crimsun> (cf. changelog)
[07:24] <Simon80> I hate a problem like that, how would I even come close to solving it?
[07:24] <Simon80> I don't mind solving problems, but I hate ones I can't touch
[07:24] <crimsun> what do you mean by "solving"?
[07:24] <Simon80> fixing
[07:24] <Simon80> for me at the very least
[07:24] <minghua> nobody stops you from rebuilding your own firefox package
[07:24] <crimsun> precisely, minghua
[07:24] <Simon80> but I have no idea if that would fix it
[07:24] <Simon80> and building a firefox package is way too much effort
[07:25] <crimsun> or if you're utterly concerned, you _can_ use the official bins from their Web site and just use equivs
[07:25] <crimsun> granted that's some amount of crackfulness, but...
[07:25] <Simon80> yeah, I know... but it's a pain
[07:25] <Simon80> it doesn't really fix the issue, in 6 months I have to put in effort again
[07:25] <Hobbsee> Simon80: especially if it ftbfs with the qt engine
[07:25] <Simon80> ftbfs?
[07:25] <crimsun> why in six months?
[07:25] <Simon80> freetpe something something..
[07:26] <Simon80> feisty
[07:26] <crimsun> no one forces you to dist-upgrade...
[07:26] <minghua> if you know how to fix it in gentoo, you should be able to fix it the same way when you rebuild debian package
[07:26] <imbrandon> bugsquishing is never unpainfull
[07:26] <imbrandon> fail to build from source
[07:26] <imbrandon> minghua: exactly
[07:26] <imbrandon> that was my thinking
[07:26] <minghua> if you are saying just use ebuild to build a gentoo package will give you desired result, then it's not gentoo's advantage, it's gentoo packager's advantage
[07:26] <crimsun> bugsquishin is my blue pill.
[07:26] <Hobbsee> Simon80: fails to build from source.
[07:26] <Simon80> crimsun, not dist-upgrading isn't a solution either
[07:27] <crimsun> Simon80: what requirements prevent that from being a valid solution?
[07:27] <Simon80> hobbsee, are you referring to cairo?
[07:27] <Simon80> my requirement to partake in the new features in feisty
[07:27] <imbrandon> Simon80: well i fail to see how you would have to redo it either, hopefull if you apt-get source the package and fix something you give that patch to the maintainer
[07:27] <Hobbsee> Simon80: no.  to firefox
[07:28] <crimsun> oh, then you and jdong need to huff the same 'pipe ;)
[07:28] <crimsun> (no offense to either, of course)
[07:28] <Mez> gentoo was one huge ftbfs for me
[07:28] <Simon80> haha
[07:28] <Simon80> yeah, I get those on occasion, my gentoo is a mix of unstable and stable
[07:28] <Simon80> thing is, I don't want to rebuild firefox, for all I know that won't even fix this
[07:29] <Simon80> in the past the official binaries have been noticeably faster
[07:29] <Simon80> I may test that again
[07:29] <Simon80> but I don't even have the time either
[07:29] <LaserJock> Amaranth: ping?
[07:30] <StevenK> Simon80: Can you prove that it is faster?
[07:30] <Simon80> it's a GUI thing, how would I really prove it
[07:30] <imbrandon> ok , here is my final question, because we are way OT for in here, but why the hell are you using ubuntu if gentoo does what you want/need ?
[07:30] <StevenK> Exactly
[07:30] <crimsun> imbrandon: shiny
[07:30] <Simon80> gentoo does NOT do exactly what I need
[07:31] <Simon80> it's high maintenance
[07:31] <imbrandon> erm ok, i must have missed something way back, but thats ok, i'm in the dark alot
[07:31] <Simon80> this wasn't really ever me bashing ubuntu for gentoo, it's just that ubuntu and debian can improve in some areas that gentoo does better
[07:31] <LaserJock> oh goodie goodie, a gentoo discusion
[07:31] <Simon80> like the good docs
[07:32] <Simon80> so I can actually figure out how to write deb packages
[07:32] <Amaranth> LaserJock: pong
[07:32] <imbrandon> Simon80: but i explained that, gentoo is all doc's kinda like lfs, there wouldent be a gentto without a doc telling you how to compile it
[07:32] <Simon80> is that an excuse for debian?
[07:32] <imbrandon> no there are many good docs on making a deb
[07:32] <LaserJock> Amaranth: dude, have you seen all the fluxbuntu discussions in here?
[07:32] <imbrandon> in many diffrent fassions
[07:32] <Amaranth> LaserJock: No. :P
[07:33] <joejaxx> ?
[07:33] <Amaranth> LaserJock: I have since been schooled
[07:33] <joejaxx> lol
[07:33] <crimsun> Err, let's back up a sec. Arguably Gentoo's Policy and Contract are influenced heavily by Debian's.
[07:33] <Simon80> key word: many, everywhere, disjoint, and in some areas incomplete
[07:33] <Amaranth> Simon80: Debian New Maintainer's Guide
[07:33] <LaserJock> Amaranth: good, I will refrain from my flame then ;-)
[07:33] <crimsun> (not that they're anywhere near identical, but obviously there has been historical precedence)
[07:33] <elkbuntu> lol, joejaxx, do you have highlight on 'fluxbuntu'?
[07:34] <imbrandon> crimsun: yup
[07:34] <Simon80> *sigh*
[07:34] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: Lol
[07:34] <crimsun> (and really, Gentoo and Debian are both very strong distros in their own rights)
[07:34] <Amaranth> Simon80: What do you want?
[07:34] <Simon80> not much, I'm just frustrated
[07:34] <Amaranth> Simon80: You can't just bitch without having a deliverable.
[07:34] <Simon80> part  of it is I just noticed the same tab switch slowness that firefox had in breezy
[07:35] <crimsun> Amaranth: but I wanna shiny pony!
[07:35] <Amaranth> tab switch slowness? i only got that when something was loading
[07:35] <joejaxx> crimsun: Lol
[07:35] <Simon80> no, loaded stuff, cpu time being used
[07:35] <Simon80> I'll have to get the official bins and see if they do it too, baybe it's a regression
[07:36] <minghua> well, if you just want to try firefox without pango, there is always MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO
[07:36] <minghua> simple and easy, no recompiling needed
[07:36] <Simon80> is that a notable difference or something?
[07:36] <Amaranth> Simon80: Or you could check in edgy or feisty instead of something that old.
[07:36] <Amaranth> minghua: pango is off unless you use a language that needs it
[07:36] <minghua> that uses XFT rendering instead of PANGO rendering
[07:36] <Simon80> Amaranth: what?
[07:36] <Amaranth> Simon80: You're only looking at breezy's firefox?
[07:36] <minghua> Amaranth: oh okay.  I didn't know.  thanks
[07:37] <Simon80> amaranth: no, I'm looking at edgy's, and saying it's slow like breezy's
[07:38] <imbrandon> Simon80: how are you measuring it ?
[07:38] <Simon80> with my eyes :(
[07:38] <Simon80> it's not a huge deal
[07:38] <imbrandon> wow, ok, i meant measuring it
[07:38] <LaserJock> Simon80: in the area of docs, the Ubuntu doc team has looked at the gentoo doc system
[07:39] <LaserJock> it is one of our sort of model doc systems
[07:39] <Simon80> imbrandon, how am I supposed to measure switching tabs
[07:39] <Simon80> other than a cpu mon
[07:40] <imbrandon> there are ways to measure anything, one way would be to put debug flags in and dbg it
[07:40] <Simon80> I just noticed this now, I'm not going that far
[07:40] <Simon80> like I said, way above my effort threshold... the farthest I'd go is check the official dist, that made a difference in breezy
[07:41] <Simon80> the other thing is maybe it's related to fglrx vs r300
[07:41] <Simon80> I don't even know
[07:41] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: you have another topic to discuss? :-)
[07:41] <imbrandon> right but before you can even make that assumption it would have to be 30s or greater diffrence, a few miliseconds cant be determined by the eye, i'm not saying your wrong, but you have to be objective about it and find exactly whats going on to help fix it
[07:41] <Simon80> 30 s or greater?
[07:41] <imbrandon> sure anything less than that cant be "judged" objectively
[07:41] <imbrandon> with the eye alone
[07:42] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, i could find many that are not likely to explode into a distro war ;)
[07:42] <Simon80> I respectfully disagree, you can switch tabs and look at cpu usage
[07:42] <Simon80> and delay
[07:42] <Simon80> it's between highly snappy, and noticeably slow
[07:42] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: distro war? we're all interested in Ubuntu here :-)
[07:42] <imbrandon> sure but can you tell why? or even if it IS firefox and not something else running up the cpu ?
[07:42] <Simon80> um, yes
[07:42] <imbrandon> or a extension or anything
[07:43] <imbrandon> you cant debug "snappy" and "noticeably slow" is whaty i'm getting at, i'm NOT saying its not slower, but thats hardly something to go on
[07:43] <Simon80> ok, and now our POVs meet, I was bitching about this because I'm annoyed at how hard it is to track something like this down, but it bugs me nonetheless
[07:44] <Simon80> lol:
[07:44] <Simon80> !ohmy
[07:44] <ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[07:44] <LaserJock> bah
[07:44] <Simon80> anyway, my complaint about the docs still stand
[07:44] <Simon80> stands*
[07:45] <imbrandon> thats kinda like me saying , i think i get better gas milage with medium grade gas becouse when i filled up with low grade gas i had to full up two times in one week compared to two, e.g. there are a TON of other factors you must consider, e.g. what its compiled with, some real measurements etc etc etc
[07:46] <Simon80> imbrandon, simple fact, from breezy, at least, was that I could compare ubuntu vs official firefox one after the other, and there was always a difference, it was not subtle, I have a fast machine, and under normal operation, switching a tab doesn't cause even a blip on my cpu monitor
[07:46] <imbrandon> right , but you said it would be easier with an ebuild, its no easier to debug this in debian or in gentoo
[07:46] <imbrandon> its stillth e same codebase, etc
[07:46] <Simon80> whoa, whoa, haha, I never said that
[07:46] <LaserJock> well
[07:47] <Simon80> the only difference is gentoo makes it easy to use the official dist
[07:47] <LaserJock> I do think debian source packages are probably much harder to compare upstream with
[07:47] <LaserJock> we make a lot of changes quite a bit of the time
[07:47] <Simon80> I don't think I even brought that up though
[07:47] <imbrandon> Simon80: apt-get source blah, change what you like just like an ebuild
[07:47] <imbrandon> then build it
[07:47] <imbrandon> same thing
[07:48] <Simon80> imbrandon, no, I mean emerge firefox-bin
[07:48] <Simon80> that's easy
[07:48] <imbrandon> apt-get source -b firefix
[07:48] <imbrandon> exact same result
[07:48] <Simon80> imbrandon, you're misunderstanding me
[07:48] <crimsun> LaserJock: in terms of the binary package(s), yes
[07:48] <LaserJock> most ebuilds I've seen are pretty darn simple
[07:49] <Simon80> indeed, I love writing ebuilds in many cases
[07:49] <LaserJock> probably .rpms are even closer (although I don't know)
[07:49] <Hobbsee> Simon80: so why havnet you fixed firefox to be faster yet?
[07:49] <imbrandon> rpm's are a nightmare, imagine a deb with no packaging rules
[07:50] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, rofl
[07:50] <joejaxx> imbrandon: that whould be terrible
[07:50] <Simon80> indeed, that's a bit beyond me
[07:50] <LaserJock> imbrandon: of course
[07:50] <Hobbsee> Simon80: start learning.
[07:50] <joejaxx> imbrandon: it really whould
[07:50] <Simon80> hobbsee, it's not just learning, it's insane debugging for a problem that is probably only transient anyway
[07:50] <crimsun> imbrandon: checkins...soap, please.
[07:51] <LaserJock> but the point being, IMO debian packages are probably farther from the original source then most other package managment systems
[07:51] <LaserJock> so it makes it harder, at times, to compare upstream to our binaries
[07:51] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Package management systems? What does the package management system have to do with the patches applied?
[07:51] <Hobbsee> Simon80: like i say, get fixing.
[07:51] <joejaxx> imbrandon: i actually like all the rules debian has in place for its packaging archives
[07:51] <Simon80> lol hobbsee
[07:52] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
[07:52] <Simon80> wasted effort
[07:52] <LaserJock> Amaranth: well, maybe not so much package management, but package format
[07:52] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Nope, that's not it either.
[07:52] <LaserJock> well, whatever
[07:52] <Amaranth> LaserJock: The word you're looking for is "distribution". :)
[07:52] <LaserJock> no
[07:52] <LaserJock> that's not what I'm looking for
[07:52] <crimsun> I think Jordan's referring to the build system from the maintainer's perspective.
[07:53] <imbrandon> yea the build system is quite a bit diffrent, but the results i dont think are
[07:53] <imbrandon> but thats my 0.2c
[07:53] <Simon80> if you spent a few minutes in my head, you'd see why getting rid of a bit of cpu time usage when I switch tabs is not a priority: the problem has been on and off, related to _which build_ I use, and there are soo many other OSS contributions I have floating in my head that would benefit more people
[07:53] <LaserJock> when I've looked at Gentoo, Fink, RPMs, they seem to do less messing around with the source
[07:53] <Simon80> I agree with laserjock
[07:53] <Amaranth> LaserJock: You are talking about patches, right?
[07:53] <imbrandon> umm fink == debian packaging
[07:54] <Simon80> a bit
[07:54] <LaserJock> Amaranth: "stuff"
[07:54] <minghua> imbrandon: not really
[07:54] <Simon80> I mean, like, rpm can be kept down to just a spec file
[07:54] <Amaranth> fink is debs and apt, no?
[07:54] <LaserJock> imbrandon: sorry, darwin ports is what I meant
[07:54] <minghua> fink doesn't even have the concept of source package
[07:54] <imbrandon> minghua: sure, i've even done some fink packages, they are very very similar
[07:54] <LaserJock> Amaranth: highly modified
[07:54] <Amaranth> well, yeah
[07:54] <Simon80> I had makefile code + skeleton spec for the purpose of bundling with my own upstream release
[07:54] <imbrandon> minghua: sure they do
[07:55] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Scibuntu! (forums)
[07:55] <Simon80> this was at work, so there's no release to speak of, but just that file was enough
[07:55] <LaserJock> Amaranth: yeah, yeah
[07:55] <minghua> imbrandon: really?  I admit I didn't look closely, but it seems just patches and a build script to me
[07:55] <imbrandon> yea now darwin ports is diffrent, thats very close to gentoo portage or BSD ports ( e.g. where they all come from )
[07:56] <imbrandon> but fink's are deb and dsc etc just like debian just built against the osx kernel
[07:56] <LaserJock> so I think it does become harder to compare when we diverge from the original authors source
[07:56] <imbrandon> follow basicly trhe same package guideline etc
[07:57] <imbrandon> LaserJock: well all package management systems have diffrrent ways to have patches, ours is just more transparent, something like BSD ports patches the source directly in the ports tree
[07:57] <imbrandon> so is VERY hard to compare
[07:57] <Simon80> errr
[07:57] <LaserJock> what?
[07:57] <LaserJock> you have a "patch" file
[07:58] <LaserJock> that's pretty darn easy
[07:58] <Simon80> ebuilds don't do that, they have patch files, and the ebuild patches after src is downloaded
[07:58] <LaserJock> we don't even know if the .orig.tar.gz is right
[07:58] <Simon80> patches the source, I mean
[07:58] <Simon80> yeah
[07:58] <Simon80> with ebuilds, you have SRC_URI pointing upstream
[07:58] <imbrandon> LaserJock: ok think about it like this, you want to compare a debian package to an upstream version, you know EXACTLY where to find the diffrences, makes it very easy to compre, anything thats NOT in the .orig.tar.gz
[07:58] <Simon80> the orig could be changed though
[07:59] <imbrandon> Simon80: no, its nbot supose to be, it should match exactly upstream
[07:59] <Simon80> and how do we know where the orig is from? that frustrates me at times
[07:59] <LaserJock> that and it's much harder to see what's going on in a debian source package
[07:59] <Amaranth> LaserJock: I'm 99% positive the .orig.tar.gz of every single package in ubuntu/debian is the exact upstream source unless it has dfsg in it's name.
[07:59] <Simon80> I guess that's just something you know and I don't though, it's in uscan, isn't it?
[07:59] <LaserJock> Amaranth: I beg to differ ;-)
[07:59] <Amaranth> LaserJock: That's a bug.
[07:59] <LaserJock> sure
[08:00] <imbrandon> LaserJock: if thats not the case there should be a very very good explination
[08:00] <imbrandon> and a bug filed
[08:00] <Amaranth> LaserJock: If you know about it it should have already been fixed. :)
[08:00] <LaserJock> look, I'm not knocking Debian packaging here
[08:00] <LaserJock> I've just seen this stuff
[08:00] <imbrandon> right but what i'm saying is you should be able to count on the orig.tar.gz being exactly upstream, thats the WHOLE reason for it
[08:00] <Amaranth> Simon80: What happens when the upstream goes away?
[08:00] <LaserJock> and a price we have to pay for the stability and flexibility that we have is that we become farther away from the upstream source
[08:01] <Simon80> Amaranth: gentoo usually mirrors... in that case though they will usually end up removing from portage anyhow though
[08:01] <Simon80> though though though.. oops
[08:01] <LaserJock> imbrandon: but if the way we do source packages "allows" for that, then it might be an issue
[08:01] <Amaranth> Simon80: Well, I really mean what if example.com goes down for a week.
[08:02] <LaserJock> mirrors generally
[08:02] <imbrandon> hasent been for the past years
[08:02] <Simon80> Amaranth: the mirrors are live
[08:02] <Amaranth> Simon80: They keep a "mirror" of everything?
[08:02] <Simon80> yes
[08:02] <Simon80> gentoo is hardcore, haha
[08:02] <Amaranth> Simon80: How do you know the stuff on the "mirror" hasn't been modified?
[08:02] <Simon80> checksums
[08:02] <Amaranth> hehe
[08:02] <Simon80> hashes I mean
[08:02] <imbrandon> and then you have redist problems :)
[08:02] <Amaranth> But the hash is in the ebuild :P
[08:02] <Simon80> FEATURES=nomirror, dude
[08:02] <LaserJock> in darwin ports it comes directly from the authors
[08:03] <imbrandon> Simon80: just as deb http:someotherpalce.com
[08:03] <imbrandon> :)
[08:03] <Amaranth> I'm just being an ass now.
[08:03] <Simon80> what?
[08:03] <joejaxx> portage and the freebsd ports are very interesting
[08:03] <Simon80> Amaranth, the ebuilds are stored locally
[08:03] <joejaxx> Simon80: he means having nonubuntu repos
[08:03] <Simon80> /usr/portage
[08:03] <imbrandon> LaserJock: yes so does BSD ports , and?
[08:03] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:03] <imbrandon> man o man we are WAY ot
[08:03] <joejaxx> yeah
[08:03] <Simon80> joejaxx.. I'm confuzzled a bit
[08:04] <LaserJock> no we aren't
[08:04] <Simon80> but redist problems, they aren't redisting
[08:04] <joejaxx> Simon80: like if you want beryl
[08:04] <LaserJock> this is an important topic for this channel
[08:04] <joejaxx> Simon80: you have to add the beryl deb line
[08:04] <Simon80> yeah
[08:04] <Simon80> overlays
[08:04] <Simon80> a bit less easy than deb, but still works
[08:04] <Simon80> there are management tools that will autoupdate them
[08:04] <joejaxx> reminders*
[08:04] <joejaxx> bah
[08:05] <joejaxx> reminds*
[08:05] <Simon80> some people in here seem to be a bit too defensive about deb packages, during this discussion, lol
[08:05] <imbrandon> brandon-holtsclaws-ibook:~ brandon$ apt-get dist-upgrade
[08:05] <imbrandon> -bash: apt-get: command not found
[08:05] <imbrandon> :)
[08:05] <joejaxx> haha
[08:05] <Simon80> lol
[08:05] <Simon80> ow
[08:05] <joejaxx> imbrandon: that is not good
[08:05] <Simon80> your system is broken!
[08:05] <Simon80> lol
[08:06] <Simon80> quick, nuke the OS you're booted into!
[08:06] <Simon80> "fix" it!
[08:06] <imbrandon> haha no fink installed yet, so not broken :)
[08:06] <imbrandon> nah , never nuke a *nix OS
[08:06] <Simon80> lol
[08:06] <Amaranth> hehe, OS X
[08:06] <Simon80> calling that *nix is taking a bit of liberty
[08:07] <LaserJock> my point is, I've seen many a time in here where people were like "can I just add/change/remove file X in the .orig.tar.gz?"
[08:07] <Amaranth> Ubuntu would have had "brandon-holtsclaws-laptop"
[08:07] <LaserJock> we should be thinking about the integrity of our sources
[08:07] <imbrandon> Simon80: OSX is more unixy than some linux disrto's i;ve seen
[08:07] <LaserJock> and how far away from the software author we go
[08:07] <Simon80> imbrandon: lol
[08:07] <Simon80> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
[08:07] <Simon80> how many linux distros flout this more than OS X?
[08:07] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Nah, just submit patches upstream and don't worry about it if they're not accepted.
[08:08] <Amaranth> Simon80: It has vi, it's a *nix :P
[08:08] <Simon80> Laserjock: that IS accepted to be wrong
[08:08] <Simon80> lol
[08:08] <Amaranth> (it has vi, right?)
[08:08] <Simon80> my 70 is a *nix
[08:08] <Simon80> undo isn't implemented though
[08:08] <Simon80> 770*
[08:08] <imbrandon> your 770 runs debian :)
[08:08] <Simon80> sort of annoying just how much closed source stuff there is on it though
[08:09] <Simon80> it's not debian, it's a debian deriv
[08:09] <Simon80> debian has man pages
[08:09] <Simon80> and logs
[08:09] <Amaranth> 770 == old debian + maemo
[08:09] <Amaranth> well, yeah
[08:09] <Simon80> and debian is free
[08:09] <imbrandon> it is heavly based on debian, cat /etc/issue ( says debian 3.1 )
[08:09] <Simon80> what is issue?
[08:09] <joejaxx> Simon80: you could always hack open your 770 and flash it mechanically
[08:09] <Amaranth> man pages take space and log files take up space/kill flash drives
[08:10] <Simon80> joejaxx: no need, but if I nuked all the non-free shit on it, it'd be much less useful
[08:10] <Simon80> ie. no WPA connectivity, no more opera, flash
[08:10] <Amaranth> hmm
[08:10] <Simon80> er... don't need flash much though TBH
[08:10] <Amaranth> 2 of those are the same on the desktop :P
[08:10] <Simon80> no more codec support
[08:10] <Simon80> the DSP would be idling
[08:10] <Amaranth> same on the desktop
[08:11] <joejaxx> joejaxx@equinox:~$ cat /etc/issue
[08:11] <joejaxx> Ubuntu 6.10 \n \l
[08:11] <joejaxx> Lol
[08:11] <Amaranth> well, no, i guess the codecs on the 770 are special
[08:11] <imbrandon> Simon80: and soon ( about 1 year ) the 770's will be based on ubuntu and buildt from our repos , they had a nice long talk with us at UDS and nokia is buying some arm buildd's for the DC
[08:11] <imbrandon> :)
[08:11] <Simon80> lol
[08:11] <Simon80> you wish
[08:11] <Simon80> I wish
[08:11] <joejaxx> imbrandon: oh yeah that is right
[08:11] <imbrandon> Simon80: no thats no joke, i spoke to them myself
[08:11] <Amaranth> i overheard them asking where to ship the machines to :)
[08:11] <elkbuntu> Simon80, i wouldnt go dismissing stuff like that
[08:11] <joejaxx> Simon80: no they are
[08:12] <imbrandon> and setup the buildd'swith  ben and james
[08:12] <imbrandon> last week
[08:12] <Simon80> I'm not that skeptical, I'm jsut thinking it's not going to be on MY 770, it'll be on 770.2
[08:12] <Amaranth> yeah, it was someone talking to ben when we were out smoking
[08:12] <Simon80> there's no way they'll build off Ubuntu repos with the current hardware, this hardware is not open for busness
[08:12] <joejaxx> and slap fluxbuntu on it hahaha
[08:12] <imbrandon> Amaranth: yea me and elmo and the nokia guys :) right after the embeded BoF
[08:13] <Amaranth> imbrandon: yeah
[08:13] <imbrandon> and wassabi
[08:13] <Amaranth> Simon80: they release OS updates
[08:13] <imbrandon> Simon80: as i said they are putting arm buildd's in the DC
[08:13] <Amaranth> Simon80: one of those will probably flip you over to ubuntu :P
[08:13] <Simon80> DC?
[08:13] <imbrandon> data center
[08:13] <joejaxx> datacentre
[08:13] <Simon80> ah
[08:14] <Simon80> well, let it be known, I'm at the latest 770 OS, released only 2 weeks ago
[08:14] <Simon80> 2GB mmcmobile support was added
[08:14] <imbrandon> like i said something like this will take aobut 1 year to transition
[08:14] <imbrandon> :)
[08:14] <Simon80> it WILL take new hardware, dude, if they wanna use Ubuntu repos
[08:14] <imbrandon> but you'll start seeing some of it very soon ( over the next month )
[08:15] <Simon80> like I said, the _hardware_ is not "open" for business
[08:15] <joejaxx> hmm
[08:15] <Amaranth> Simon80: ARM is ARM is ARM
[08:15] <Simon80> as in, there is a C55x DSP core in front of me, it is used for stuff, and none of that code is going to be opened up unless TI has a major change of heart
[08:15] <Amaranth> Simon80: not all the stuff will come from Ubuntu's repos
[08:16] <Simon80> C55x is C55x, haha
[08:16] <Simon80> well then
[08:16] <joejaxx> ubuntu is ubuntu! :D
[08:16] <joejaxx> to be or not to be
[08:16] <imbrandon> Simon80: but its still just an arm at heart, the basic os can be bulilt here, drivers for ther hardware inhouse
[08:16] <joejaxx> that is the real question
[08:16] <Simon80> when I think about it, using ubuntu's src packages would be the paragon of Ari Jaarski's philosophy for maemo
[08:17] <Simon80> he wanted to participate in upstream
[08:17] <imbrandon> maemo will be in the repos too irrc , so it can be more widely used for other devices
[08:17] <imbrandon> iirc*
[08:17] <Simon80> 770 has a long way to go software wise though, the core software is all opposite to the ports
[08:17] <imbrandon> ok , anyhow i'm off for a bit
[08:17] <Simon80> huge ass fonts, ubergnomelike featurelessness
[08:17] <Simon80> as in, dumbed down further than gnome is at times
[08:18] <Amaranth> grr
[08:18] <Simon80> .....I'm on gnome right now, relax
[08:18] <Simon80> don't deny it
[08:18] <Simon80> there are some cases where you're digging through gconf wondering why they didn't just add a dropdown
[08:19] <Simon80> or wondering why nautilus won't burn multisession
[08:20] <joejaxx> Simon80: you can always write and help develop that
[08:20] <joejaxx> write==code
[08:20] <Simon80> I could, but I lack time
[08:20] <joejaxx> well see here is the thing really
[08:20] <Simon80> and don't question that, as we speak I just uploaded a new build of stepmania cvs to my webspace... I AM doing stuff.. I should be doing homework actually :(
[08:21] <Amaranth> Simon80: It's always a trade-off. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-April/msg00618.html explains the pros/cons for a certain feature
[08:21] <Simon80> amaranth: I know
[08:21] <Simon80> .......I confess, I can't really provide good arguments to the contrary
[08:22] <Simon80> though there's always that cups thing that got linus involved, lol
[08:22] <Amaranth> that has since been fixed
[08:22] <Simon80> that's what bugs me, when they omit features
[08:22] <Simon80> I should file a bug on the mouse applet
[08:22] <Amaranth> Generally "features" are missing because no one has done them the way the maintainer wants them to be done.
[08:22] <Simon80> needs to be able to change speed/accel on more than corepointer
[08:23] <Amaranth> Or because the maintainer thinks they're a bad idea for some reason. :)
[08:24] <Amaranth> It's not just because he hates you. :)
[08:24] <Simon80> I haven't clashed with any maintainers, no code to speak of yet
[08:24] <Simon80> how do I add my own gpg key to apt-key?
[08:24] <Simon80> lol
[08:25] <Amaranth> apt-key add
[08:25] <Simon80> yes, but my own key
[08:25] <Simon80> I've wget riddell's key and such.. how do I access my own key in that format
[08:26] <Simon80> wgot, lol
[08:26] <Simon80> my pubkey
[08:26] <crimsun> export it in armored mode, then use the above command
[08:26] <Simon80> gpg --export
[08:26] <imbrandon> expot your own pubkey to a file then apt-get add file
[08:26] <Simon80> yeah, just saw it
[08:26] <Amaranth> gpg --armor --export
[08:26] <Simon80> what option for armored?
[08:26] <Simon80> ah
[08:26] <joejaxx> -a
[08:26] <joejaxx> i believe
[08:27] <Simon80> yep
[08:27] <imbrandon> gpg --armor --output pubkey.txt --export 'Your Name'
[08:27] <Simon80> is it safe to upload that to my repo?
[08:27] <Simon80> err, not safe, but useful
[08:27] <Simon80> obviously it's safe
[08:27] <Amaranth> I'd rather you not
[08:27] <imbrandon> yes, if your repo is signed ( and it should be )
[08:27] <crimsun> I think if you have to ask whether it's useful, ...
[08:28] <imbrandon> crimsun: that was my next sentance
[08:28] <Simon80> um, well no, it could be that it isn't, because if my repo is untrusted
[08:28] <Simon80> I don't know
[08:28] <Simon80> no use modifying a pubkey though
[08:28] <joejaxx> i ?
[08:28] <Simon80> what filename for the key though?
[08:28] <Amaranth> If people don't add your key they get an annoying dialog in synaptic every time they refresh and if they do then it's harder to tell what packages are coming from official places and what packages aren't.
[08:28] <imbrandon> Simon80: well tbh if you dont know if the gpg pubkey is usefull i have little faith in you making a repo
[08:28] <Simon80> amaranth: I know, that's why i'm adding it
[08:29] <joejaxx> bah
[08:29] <joejaxx> -i
[08:29] <Amaranth> Simon80: I'm saying _don't_ add it
[08:29] <Simon80> imbrandon, quit flaming me dammit
[08:29] <Simon80> I meant useful as opposed to putting it on a website like I've seen others do
[08:29] <imbrandon> Simon80: i'm not, but if you were arround for the last upgrade cycle and seent he problems with third party packages
[08:29] <Amaranth> Simon80: Don't sign your packages that way they show up as 'NOT AUTHENTICATED' so people know they're not from Ubuntu.
[08:29] <Simon80> lol
[08:30] <Simon80> but then I lose to security of having signed packages
[08:30] <imbrandon> crimsun: please take my spot in the education of this padiwan, so i dont get called a flamer anymore, i got other things i can be doing
[08:30] <Simon80> lol
[08:30] <crimsun> sorry, I'm too busy doing shallow things with bugs.
[08:30] <Simon80> you flaming **** :)
[08:30] <joejaxx> Amaranth: Lol
[08:30] <Amaranth> Simon80: And your users lose any easy way to see whether or not you're updating their libc6
[08:30] <Amaranth> (if you sign)
[08:30] <joejaxx> Amaranth: you know people do noy like that message :P
[08:30] <Simon80> I must say, since my packages are hosted on a relatively untrusted host, I would want the signatures
[08:31] <Amaranth> joejaxx: But they like my packages so I tell them to put up with it. :P
[08:31] <joejaxx> Amaranth: hahaha
[08:31] <Simon80> lol, why would I update their libc? that's just evil
[08:31] <joejaxx> Simon80: basically
[08:31] <Simon80> question is what filename for my key
[08:31] <joejaxx> if they have a debline in their apt
[08:31] <joejaxx> you have control of their machine
[08:31] <joejaxx> :(
[08:31] <Amaranth> Simon80: File name doesn't matter, the user has to wget it anyway.
[08:31] <Simon80> oh, ok
[08:32] <Simon80> but then your argument is moot, the user can avoid adding anyhow
[08:32] <Simon80> if they wanna track where the updates are from, they can use synaptic
[08:33] <Amaranth> Simon80: if you sign the packages and they don't get the key they get a weird error dialog every time they hit refresh in synaptic
[08:33] <Simon80> I know, I know
[08:33] <Amaranth> And I have no idea how to track where an update is coming from in synaptic. :P
[08:33] <Simon80> but if they don't get that dialog, they can still easily check the package source
[08:34] <Simon80> versions tab
[08:34] <Simon80> want a screenie?
[08:34] <joejaxx> sudo apt-cache policy nameofpackage
[08:34] <Amaranth> no
[08:34] <Amaranth> that wasn't the point
[08:34] <Amaranth> if i don't know how to check what normal user would?
[08:35] <Amaranth> joejaxx: i do madison instead but yeah
[08:35] <Simon80> I added my key, and it still won't auth, dammit
[08:36] <joejaxx> did you apt-get update
[08:36] <Simon80> yep
[08:36] <joejaxx> did you sign your release file?
[08:36] <Simon80> I just realized as you said that
[08:36] <Simon80> I don't actually have a real repo
[08:36] <joejaxx> Lol
[08:37] <joejaxx> how are you apt-getting things?
[08:37] <joejaxx> then
[08:37] <joejaxx> *
[08:37] <Simon80> haven't bothered to figure that out... alls I've got is a dir with sources and packages.gz
[08:37] <Simon80> and files
[08:37] <Simon80> flat
[08:37] <Simon80> dunno how to do the full monty yet
[08:37] <joejaxx> hmm
[08:37] <Simon80> http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/
[08:37] <joejaxx> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto
[08:38] <Simon80> thank you, I'd seen that, but was too lazy to find it again
[08:38] <Simon80> way too many hyperlinks, and all the tubes, it's so confusing
[08:38] <Simon80> it's just this big bunch of tubes
[08:38] <Simon80> my repo is the type that gets added as deb http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/ ./
[08:38] <Simon80> confuses synatpic if you try to edit it, lol
[08:39] <Simon80> won't let you save it
[08:39] <Simon80> synaptic*
[08:39] <joejaxx> you should really set that up right
[08:39] <joejaxx> lol
[08:40] <Simon80> I will eventually
[08:40] <Simon80> it's still apt-gettable, lol
[08:40] <Simon80> try it
[08:40] <joejaxx> yeah but it is not the right syntax
[08:40] <Simon80> I only imitate, so you can bet that I copied it from someone
[08:40] <Simon80> :)
[08:43] <joejaxx> you really need tofix that :\
[08:46] <Simon80> believe me, I will before it becomes a big deal
[08:46] <Simon80> but it works and there's nothing wrong with it
[08:46] <joejaxx> well
[08:46] <Simon80> I have 0 users, and the 1 package in there is stepmania cvs head
[08:47] <Simon80> as of now
[08:47] <joejaxx> bah nevermind
[08:47] <joejaxx> ok
[08:47] <Simon80> lol, it works in synaptic too
[08:47] <Simon80> you can add it.. just can't edit then save
[08:47] <Simon80> unless you change it
[08:47] <Simon80> to something other than the right line
[08:47] <Simon80> I don't even have room for more packages in the space I'm hosting
[08:47] <joejaxx> there is a reason why synaptic will not let you save it
[08:47] <Simon80> so I'll have to move it at the time I fix this
[08:48] <Simon80> do you have a reason? or are you deducing that?
[08:48] <Simon80> and lol"
[08:48] <Simon80> :
[08:48] <Simon80> WARNING: The graphic '/AdditionalSongs/Heavy only/worshiptherobots/worshiptherobots-bg.bmp' has frame dimensions that aren't even numbers.
[08:48] <joejaxx> Simon80: the reason is
[08:49] <joejaxx> is the repository i not setup right
[08:49] <joejaxx> there is a certain structure to a debian repository
[08:49] <joejaxx> synaptic is looking for it
[08:49] <joejaxx> and does not see it
[08:49] <Simon80> it sees it, the packages are used
[08:50] <joejaxx> nevermind i do not think you are going to get it
[08:50] <Simon80> you mean the dist stuff?
[08:50] <joejaxx> what i am trying to tell you
[08:50] <Simon80> thing is, if it's a valid line, and apt accepts it, synaptic accepts it, but that one dialog doesn't, I say the dialog is outnumbered
[08:51] <Simon80> go on though
[08:51] <joejaxx> it is not a valid line
[08:51] <joejaxx> that is my point
[08:51] <Simon80> how so though?
[08:51] <joejaxx> ok
[08:51] <Simon80> I mean, if you point to policy, fine
[08:52] <Simon80> I really should be asleep now though
[08:52] <Simon80> but don't worry, I'm not going to go through life not knowing how to set up a repo
[08:52] <Simon80> please do explain why the line's invalid though
[08:52] <Simon80> now that we've talked about it for a while
[08:53] <joejaxx> deb ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
[08:53] <joejaxx> deb-src ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
[08:53] <Simon80> mmhmm
[08:53] <joejaxx> that is what synaptic is looking for
[08:53] <joejaxx> let me explain
[08:53] <Simon80> I know
[08:53] <Simon80> you have the dist, and then any components
[08:54] <joejaxx> yes
[08:54] <Simon80> clearly this isn't the same format
[08:54] <joejaxx> exactly
[08:54] <Simon80> I'm sure that the simpler one working is no accident though
[08:54] <joejaxx> your apt line should look like that
[08:54] <joejaxx> atleast have component1 and component2
[08:55] <Simon80> like I said, different format, no accident
[08:55] <joejaxx> there are ways to hacking and tricking things into working
[08:55] <Simon80> can't be an accident
[08:55] <Simon80> apt would asplode
[08:55] <joejaxx> like the other day
[08:55] <joejaxx> i trick my i386 computer
[08:55] <joejaxx> into downloading a PowerPC chroot
[08:55] <joejaxx> it worked
[08:55] <joejaxx> but it is not supposed to be that way
[08:56] <Simon80> into downloading through apt? how?
[08:56] <Simon80> how is it a trick?
[08:56] <joejaxx> Simon80: you cannot download a PowerPC chroot on an intel computer
[08:56] <joejaxx> it checks your arch type
[08:56] <joejaxx> and downloads it accordingly
[08:56] <Simon80> you have to be specific, I could fie up wget and dl it
[08:57] <Simon80> so you mean for pbuilder?
[08:57] <joejaxx> no my jbuilder app
[08:57] <joejaxx> but anyway
[08:57] <Simon80> but I mean, what is dling the chroots? how is this relevant? lol
[08:58] <imbrandon> that deb line is valid syntax for apt, its just not the prefered way
[08:58] <Simon80> there we go
[08:58] <Simon80> that's what my position was
[08:58] <Simon80> no offense, joe
[08:58] <joejaxx> Simon80: like i said there is a reason synaptic does not accept your deb lines
[08:58] <joejaxx> lol
[08:58] <Simon80> I mean, I will figure out deb repos, but there's a time and place...
[08:58] <Simon80> synaptic accepts them though
[08:59] <Simon80> just the edit repo dialog doesn't
[08:59] <joejaxx> ok
[08:59] <Simon80> you can add it, just not save the same line in the edit dialog
[08:59] <joejaxx> its what i whould call what i did lol a hack
[08:59] <Simon80> I dunno if I'd go so far
[08:59] <Simon80> it's at least half way though
[08:59] <Simon80> the repo's a hack, for sure, lol
[08:59] <Simon80> just outputted sources and packages to a flat dir
[09:00] <joejaxx> ok lol
[09:01] <minghua> joejaxx: I agree with imbrandon here, honestly I think that would be a bug in synaptic
[09:01] <joejaxx> lol
[09:02] <Simon80> in his defense, he may have misunderstood that synaptic was conflicting with itself there... I didn't make that clear, I just boasted that it confuses synaptic
[09:02] <joejaxx> no
[09:02] <joejaxx> i just know what i read from the sources docs lol
[09:03] <joejaxx> kind of like me using equivs instead of pbuilder
[09:03] <joejaxx> to make metapackages
[09:04] <joejaxx> like i tried doing back before i read the debian new maintainers guide a almost a year ago
[09:04] <Simon80> equivs?
[09:04] <Simon80> and yes, definitely do your homework before creating things
[09:05] <Simon80> ...or, in my defense, imitate
[09:05] <Simon80> and then learn when ready
[09:05] <Simon80> I tend to read a lot before doing
[09:05] <Simon80> this is just one case
[09:07] <joejaxx> bbl
[09:08] <Simon80> me too
[09:09] <joejaxx> bah nevermind i forgot i had to do something else
[09:10] <joejaxx> before i detached
[09:10] <joejaxx> minghua ping?
[09:10] <minghua> joejaxx: yes?
[09:11] <joejaxx> the syntax on the debian docs is not a standard?
[09:12] <minghua> joejaxx: which doc?  the "how to maintain a repo" one?
[09:12] <joejaxx> hold on i just received 71 emails
[09:12] <joejaxx> minghua: yes
[09:12] <joejaxx> deb|deb-src uri distribution [component1]  [component2]  [...] 
[09:13] <joejaxx> this is what i was referring to actually
[09:13] <minghua> joejaxx: I never read that doc, reading now
[09:14] <joejaxx> wow i really need to create rules/filters for my email
[09:14] <minghua> joejaxx: look a little down at the "Example 4. Two Trivial Repositories from my sources.list"
[09:15] <minghua> joejaxx: basically both syntaxes are correct, one being used by Debian official archives, so a bit more "formal"
[09:15] <joejaxx> deb file:///home/aisotton/rep-exact binary/
[09:15] <joejaxx> deb-src file:///home/aisotton/rep-exact source/
[09:16] <minghua> joejaxx: but I won't go as far as saying the other is wrong
[09:16] <joejaxx> that?
[09:16] <minghua> yes
[09:16] <joejaxx> that still has the distribution argument
[09:16] <joejaxx> and subdirectories
[09:16] <minghua> no
[09:16] <joejaxx> i mean the first argument
[09:16] <minghua> you don't have trailing "/" for distribution argument
[09:17] <minghua> that's how apt differentiate those two forms
[09:17] <minghua> s/that's how/I think that's how/
[09:17] <joejaxx> hmm
[09:18] <Simon80> it's how
[09:18] <Simon80> it doesn't work to jsut say deb x.x.x .
[09:18] <Simon80> has to be ./
[09:18] <Simon80> I know empirically
[09:21] <joejaxx> interesting
[09:21] <imbrandon> welp time for a bit of sleep i think, see yall after bit, gnight joejaxx Simon80 minghua and anyone else still awake
[09:21] <Simon80> me too
[09:21] <Simon80> it's 3:21 here
[09:21] <Simon80> *smacks self*
[09:21] <minghua> yeah, I should go sleep, too
[09:22] <minghua> good night imbrandon
[09:22] <joejaxx> wow
[09:22] <joejaxx> that line imbrando n type highlighted in gold
[09:22] <ajmitch> going to sleep already?
[09:22] <ajmitch> slackers
[09:22] <joejaxx> what is up with that
[09:22] <imbrandon> ajmitch: haha probably not, but my eyes are telling me to try
[09:22] <joejaxx> hmm
[09:23] <ajmitch> yeah, I went to bed at 11pm last night
[09:23] <imbrandon> actualy i'll probably keep hacking on this shell script for a nother houur
[09:23] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, i've been in bed by 11 every night since coming back to Aus, it feels so unnatural :
[09:24] <imbrandon> gah, i knew there was something i forgot to setup, fskin osx terminal dosent like backspaces /me looks for the settings to change
[09:24] <joejaxx> ajmitch: does irssi highlight full lines on nick ping?
[09:24] <ajmitch> joejaxx: usually
[09:24] <imbrandon> joejaxx: should
[09:24] <ajmitch> well I've set it to highlight here
[09:24] <joejaxx> ajmitch: imbrandon yeah but i mean
[09:25] <joejaxx> right now both of your nicks highlighted
[09:25] <joejaxx> not the whole thing
[09:25] <joejaxx> whole line
[09:25] <ajmitch> right, the line doesn't usually highlight, just the nick on the left
[09:25] <ajmitch> if that's what you mean
[09:25] <joejaxx> yeah
[09:25] <joejaxx> the whole line highlighted
[09:26] <joejaxx> when imbrandon said he was going to sleep
[09:26] <nixternal> you can set the line to highlight though by adding the color at the end of }... i.e, {msgnick %Y$0$1-%n}%Y   <- in your theme file
[09:27] <joejaxx> nixternal: yes but is that default?
[09:27] <nixternal> that %Y at the end would highlight the entire line bold yellow
[09:27] <nixternal> no joejaxx
[09:27] <joejaxx> it is the first time irssi has highlighted a whole line
[09:27] <nixternal> default == nick only
[09:27] <joejaxx> yeah see
[09:27] <joejaxx> it just did it once again
[09:27] <joejaxx> with this
[09:27] <joejaxx> 00:27 < nixternal> no joejaxx
[09:28] <nixternal> hrmm..that messed up my highlight...lol
[09:28] <joejaxx> the word "no" was highlighted also
[09:28] <nixternal> but i have a highlight window as well, so all my highlights go to a split window at the top of my terminial
[09:29] <joejaxx> hmmm interesting
[09:32] <nixternal> http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/irssi.jpg
[09:32] <joejaxx> lol
[09:33] <joejaxx> :)
[09:33] <nixternal> the top window logs all of my highlights
[09:33] <joejaxx> uh oh
[09:33] <joejaxx> oh shoot
[09:33] <joejaxx> nice
[09:33] <joejaxx> bah hold on bbl
[09:41] <minghua> see you guys
[09:49] <joejaxx> oh mannnnn
[09:49] <joejaxx> this is NOT goo
[09:49] <joejaxx> d
[09:49] <joejaxx> not good at all
[09:49] <joejaxx> my server is on fire
[09:53] <ajmitch> joejaxx: that doesn't sound so great
[09:53] <ajmitch> where is this server?
[09:59] <joejaxx> oh man
[09:59] <joejaxx> ajmitch: in a controlled environment in one part of my room
[09:59] <joejaxx> i had to force shutdown
[09:59] <joejaxx> take it out the server rack
[09:59] <joejaxx> unscrew the psu
[09:59] <ajmitch> did you mean 'on fire', or just letting out magic smoke?
[10:00] <joejaxx> and take it out side
[10:00] <joejaxx> no
[10:00] <joejaxx> on fire
[10:00] <ajmitch> lovely
[10:00] <joejaxx> yea
[10:00] <ajmitch> you have a server rack in your room? :)
[10:00] <joejaxx> yeah :)
[10:00] <ajmitch> man, some people..
[10:00] <joejaxx> Lol
[10:01] <joejaxx> i am glad the fire was only at the psu
[10:01] <joejaxx> it could have spread to the drives
[10:01] <joejaxx> and motherboard
[10:01] <joejaxx> ajmitch: :\
[10:03] <joejaxx> so it is time to look for another psu
[10:03] <ajmitch> since 1 of them is a laptop, there's hardly any point in getting a rack
[10:03] <joejaxx> yeah
[10:04] <joejaxx> hmm
[10:04] <joejaxx> ajmitch: how can i get mouse support for ttyX?
[10:04] <ajmitch> no idea
[10:04] <ajmitch> gpm, maybe?
[10:04] <joejaxx> ajmitch: what is wrong with it? the xp?
[10:05] <joejaxx> ajmitch: i do not know
[10:05] <ajmitch> dies about 10 seconds into bootup
[10:05] <joejaxx> oh wow :\
[10:05] <ajmitch> probably a cooked cpu or broken power supply
[10:05] <ajmitch> motherboard has some bulging caps as well
[10:06] <joejaxx> nice :)
[10:07] <ajmitch> yeah, the amd64 I got has a bit more diskspace, RAM, CPU power
[10:07] <joejaxx> the only 64but computers i have here are som 233MHz sparcs
[10:07] <ajmitch> makes for a good replacement
[10:07] <joejaxx> ajmitch: nice upgrade
[10:07] <joejaxx> :)
[10:07] <ajmitch> necessary upgrade, with a dead box
[10:07] <joejaxx> yeah truw
[10:07] <joejaxx> true
[10:07] <ajmitch> gave me a chance to try out RAID, etc
[10:08] <ajmitch> I can run stuff in vmware without any problems
[10:08] <joejaxx> :)
[10:08] <ajmitch> like having both windows vista & 2k3 server running at once :)
[10:08] <joejaxx> have you tried running 64 bit oses on vmware?
[10:08] <ajmitch> sure
[10:08] <ajmitch> works fine
[10:08] <joejaxx> nice :)
[10:09] <ajmitch> no different to 32-bit systems
[10:09] <joejaxx> i was just wondering because 64bit support was suposed to be "expeerimental"
[10:10] <ajmitch> I haven't tried 64-bit versions of windows
[10:11] <joejaxx> uh oh hold on
[10:12] <joejaxx> uh oh this is not good bbl :(
[10:12] <ajmitch> more flames?
[10:21] <nixternal> help timestamp_level
[10:21] <nixternal> lol
[10:22] <nixternal> oh well, sleep time..g'nite
[11:46] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee
[11:48] <Hobbsee> hey TheMuso
[12:01] <rvalles> instead, a few thousand could be donated to the ati and nvidia reverse-engineered driver efforts
[12:01] <rvalles> and that'd almost guarantee free drivers for next ubuntu release
[12:02] <ajmitch> rvalles: not necessarily
[12:03] <ajmitch> there needs to be a lot of quality time, not just money thrown at it
[12:03] <Burgundavia> rvalles: reverse engineering is a hard task, requiring smart people
[12:04] <Burgundavia> there are not many people that are both a) smart enough b)have an interest in doing it
[12:04] <ajmitch> c) aren't doing other necessary things already
[12:05] <Burgundavia> yep
[12:05] <ajmitch> eg there's a small handful of people who understand drivers & video cards well enough
[12:07] <StevenK> And most of them work for Nvidia and ATI? :-P
[12:07] <ajmitch> or intel
[12:08] <Burgundavia> they are paying the big dollars
[12:08] <Burgundavia> nvidia offered mjg59 a job
[12:09] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: for open source development?
[12:10] <Burgundavia> nah
[12:12] <Burgundavia> it is nvidia, they don't really grok open source
[12:26] <rvalles> 12:03:15 <   ajmitch> there needs to be a lot of quality time, not just money thrown at it
[12:26] <rvalles> yup
[12:26] <rvalles> but there are already people working in this stuff
[12:27] <rvalles> ati and nvidia drivers... on the ati front, almost all atis work already, but the ones with only shared memory
[12:27] <ajmitch> and you've seen the comments from the nouveau developers
[12:27] <rvalles> and with nvidia, they're just starting
[12:27] <rvalles> if they had the money not to need to work on anything else so that they could concentrate on the drivers
[12:27] <rvalles> I can only imagine nice and fast advancement
[12:28] <rvalles> instead, we decide to help the big corporations by distributing their drivers for them
[12:28] <rvalles> not too smart, imho
[12:30] <rvalles> and then, on the driver front, there are popular vendors (like broadcom) that won't even release linux drivers or specs at all; only the reverse-engineering path is left
[12:34] <Burgundavia> wow, the 93472340384508th digg article about shipit
[12:35] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: we should have a party when it reaches 10000000000000000
[12:36] <Burgundavia> http://ftp.linuxcenter.ru/iso/SUSE-Linux-Enterprise-Server-10/ <-- yay, russian pirated ISOs!!
[12:36] <ajmitch> w4r3z?
[12:38] <Burgundavia> rvalles: are you fairly familiar with the open source video driver scene?
[12:47] <Burgundavia> rvalles: sorry, network died. Did you respond?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> he didnt
[12:49] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:49] <Burgundavia> NM and my atheros card are not exactly a loving couple right now
[12:51] <Hobbsee> edgy or feisty?
[12:52] <Burgundavia> feisty, but an edgy kernel
[12:52] <Burgundavia> I have not had issues until this run
[01:40] <rvalles> Burgundavia: no.
[02:49] <Adri2000> crimsun: I asked the pppoeconf debian maintainer and an ubuntu user, the don't have the same problem as me (windows not sized correctly)
[02:54] <rvalles> 12:49:37 < Burgundav> NM and my atheros card are not exactly a loving couple right now
[02:54] <rvalles> Burgundavia: tried NM a few weeks ago
[02:55] <rvalles> it doesn't seem to have a way to specify IP, netmask, gateway and DNS servers
[02:55] <rvalles> so it doesn't work on networks without DHCP
[02:55] <StevenK> rvalles: Correct.
[02:55] <rvalles> I don't understand why people are so much into NM
[02:55] <rvalles> when it doesn't even do this much
[02:56] <crimsun> it's largely dependent on the wifi chipset (and thus driver). n-m purportedly works wonderfully with ipw2200
[02:56] <rvalles> so I went back to manually setting things up; I don't feel like installing dhcp at home...
[02:56] <rvalles> crimsun: that, too
[02:57] <rvalles> crimsun: it lacked support for most stuff in my zd1211 simply because it isn't in the database
[02:57] <rvalles> when it uses the standard wireless API of the kernel like the other in-kernel-tree wireless drivers
[02:57] <rvalles> on the other hand, it recognised another chipset I have there (crappy broadcom) just fine
[02:58] <Hobbsee> works wonderfully with my two cards, with wpa, but i'm lucky
[02:58] <Hobbsee> rvalles: it's the only gui form of wpa encrypted wifi
[02:58] <StevenK> rvalles: It does ... funny stuff, like scan while associated.
[02:59] <rvalles> Hobbsee: I know, and that's why I tried it
[02:59] <rvalles> Hobbsee: too bad it supports WPA but doesn't support something as basic as assigning IP/mask/gw/DNS.
[02:59] <Hobbsee> rvalles: true.  feel free to write the support for it though
[02:59] <Hobbsee> rvalles: it's still quite new
[02:59] <rvalles> so I'm back to my small script for wpa_supplicant invocation...
[03:00] <rvalles> Hobbsee: I guess I'll give it another try after a few months
[03:00] <rvalles> it seemed to me like a very good idea, but still on the early stages.
[03:01] <rvalles> hope the ati reverse engineering people make it so that X1100 and other integrated chipsets without local memory works
[03:01] <rvalles> *work
[03:02] <StevenK> If crappy wlassistant can do it, NM can.
[03:03] <Hobbsee> StevenK: sounds like you're wanting to take over maintainership, and starting to hack on NM
[03:03] <StevenK> Hah, not at all.
[03:03] <Hobbsee> StevenK: keybuk would be happy
[03:03] <StevenK> Potiently
[03:44] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:45] <PriceChild> Hi
[03:47] <bddebian> Hello PriceChild
[03:47] <PriceChild> :)
[03:49] <Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian, hello PriceChild
[03:49] <PriceChild> I'm reading up on dh_scrollkeeper Gloubiboulga :P
[03:50] <bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
[03:52] <PriceChild> Gloubiboulga: could you check something for me before I do it?
[03:54] <Gloubiboulga> sure
[03:55] <PriceChild> I've got a couple of files in debian
[03:55] <PriceChild> postinst & postrm
[03:55] <PriceChild> I've been advised to use dh_scrollkeeper instead of them
[03:56] <PriceChild> I think that those two files can just be removed completely as they don't do anything else
[03:56] <PriceChild> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/xvidcap-0611181500/xvidcap-1.1.4p1/debian/postinst btw
[03:56] <Gloubiboulga> indeed, you can remove them
[03:56] <PriceChild> ok gd
[03:57] <PriceChild> now for me to figure out where to put dh_scrollkeeper in control :)
[03:58] <PriceChild> Is it just inside: "binary-arch: build install"
[03:58] <PriceChild> below line 55: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32744/
[04:00] <PriceChild> Oh and i removed "patch-stamp" from line 27 just before "configure-stamp"
[04:02] <PriceChild> so i'm hoping that was correct also
[04:02] <Gloubiboulga> yep
[04:03] <Gloubiboulga> you can call dh_scrollkeeper after dh_installmenu
[04:04] <PriceChild> good good :)
[04:04] <PriceChild> thankyou
[04:04] <PriceChild> I'm getting there :)
[04:09] <PriceChild> Gloubiboulga: got a little more time to spare?
[04:11] <_MMA_> PriceChild: When is feature freeze for Feisty?
[04:11] <PriceChild> couple of months
[04:12] <PriceChild> (i think)
[04:12] <PriceChild> I am no-one to be asking these questions though lol.... i'm a forums guy :)
[04:12] <PriceChild> I'll go check for you
[04:12] <PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule?highlight=%28schedule%29%7C%28feisty%29
[04:12] <_MMA_> I know. I know you name. Im MetalMusicAddict there.
[04:12] <PriceChild> Feb 8th
[04:13] <PriceChild> ah k
[04:13] <PriceChild> yeah feature freeze is feb 8th
[04:13] <_MMA_> Thanx. ;)
[04:13] <PriceChild> debian import freeze is 21st December though
[04:14] <Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: not right now, but in a couple of hours, yes
[04:14] <PriceChild> he he thanks for the help :) Gloubiboulga :)
[05:11] <Adri2000> crimsun: is it ok for pppoeconf now? (see my comment on the bug)
[06:02] <rmjb> hi, I'm looking for an motu to okay and release a sync request
[06:02] <rmjb> the sync is for a package that's broken in edgy and also feisty and users are hitting the same bug in feisty...
[06:05] <Lathiat> rmjb: best bet would to be to file a bug about the problem and suggest the version that fixes it
[06:05] <rmjb> did all that already... quite some time ago
[06:05] <Lathiat> url?
[06:05] <rmjb> See here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/54246
[06:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,In progress] 
[06:06] <rmjb> here https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/68294
[06:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68294 in dmraid "[SRU]  Freeze Exception Request for dmraid" [Medium,Needs info] 
[06:06] <rmjb> and here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/71980
[06:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71980 in dmraid "dmraid: sync new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[06:07] <Lathiat> hrm wow thats a pretty big bug
[06:07] <rmjb> yeah... I'm kinda miffed it's taking this long to fix
[06:11] <rmjb> if it could be synced for feisty I could request a backport to edgy
[06:15] <geser> rmjb: are all ubuntu patches merged into the debian package?
[06:15] <rmjb> yep as far I see
[06:18] <geser> then you need you only need a motu to verify it and add an ack
[06:18] <rmjb> can you do that?
[06:18] <geser> I'm not a MOTU
[06:18] <rmjb> okay, me neither
[06:19] <geser> subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to the bug
[06:20] <rmjb> thanks, did that... is the team notified when they
[06:21] <rmjb> they're subscribed? or do I have to add a comment?
[06:22] <geser> they get notified when you subscribe them
[06:22] <rmjb> ok
[06:44] <luisbg> how can I see which version of a package is apt going to install (not version of the software but of the ubuntu package
[06:44] <luisbg> )
[06:47] <PriceChild> luisbg:  there must be a cli way... but you can do it easily in synaptic by right clicking the package and looking at availiable versions
[06:48] <luisbg> PriceChild, in the future I might need a command for that but...
[06:48] <luisbg> for now it's cool, thanks
[06:48] <Adri2000> apt-cache policy/madison
[06:48] <luisbg> Admiral_Chicago, madison?
[06:49] <Adri2000> yep
[06:49] <PriceChild> ah that's good
[06:49] <PriceChild> $ apt-cache madison gedit
[06:49] <PriceChild>      gedit | 2.16.1-0ubuntu2 | http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages
[06:49] <PriceChild>      gedit | 2.16.1-0ubuntu2 | http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Sources
[06:49] <PriceChild> clever :)
[06:49] <Adri2000> and policy has a field "candidate"
[06:50] <luisbg> Adri2000, WOW! nice LOL
[06:50] <PriceChild> you learn something new every day :)
[06:50] <luisbg> PriceChild, in FOSS you learn so many things new every day :P
[06:51] <PriceChild> problem is whatever i learned yesterday is already common knowledge to me and i've forgotten what it was
[06:51] <luisbg> PriceChild, heh
[06:51] <luisbg> so is it safe to change the apt sources to feisty now?
[06:52] <pygi> luisbg: not really ^_^
[06:52] <luisbg> pygi, LOL, for ubuntu motus?
[06:52] <pygi> unless you are willing to cope with the problms you might experience ^_^
[06:52] <pygi> luisbg: well, I just run a feisty pbuilder, no need for installing feisty
[06:53] <Sp4rKy> can we do some poll with lp ?
[06:53] <luisbg> pygi, ok cool, thanks
[06:53] <PriceChild> I've got feisty on a separate partition for playing
[06:53] <luisbg> hello LaserJock
[06:54] <PriceChild> and a feisty pbuilder
[06:54] <LaserJock> hi luisbg
[06:54] <pygi> PriceChild: all good, but never recommend random folks to install feisty ^_^
[06:54] <PriceChild> hey LaserJock
[06:54] <PriceChild> lol definately not :()
[06:54] <pygi> 'cause they won't bug you :)
[06:54] <PriceChild> *:)
[06:54] <PriceChild> I still reccomend people use Dapper instead of Edgy
[06:54] <pygi> that's probably sane
[06:55] <PriceChild> Do as I say, not as I do and all that
[06:55] <PriceChild> personally to me Edgy's stable as a rock, had much less problems since install than I did with Dapper, but I'm in the minority
[06:56] <LaserJock> I don't know that you are
[06:56] <luisbg> LaserJock, how is all going?
[06:56] <LaserJock> barring upgrade issues, Edgy seems pretty darn good
[06:56] <LaserJock> luisbg: I'm sick in bed :/
[06:56] <PriceChild> that's what I think
[06:56] <luisbg> edgy is great
[06:56] <luisbg> if the user hasn't done something outside ubuntu... is stable as a rock
[06:56] <PriceChild> but if you spent a lot of time on the forums like me... you'd disagree
[06:57] <luisbg> if the user has done outside of ubuntu, he will know how to fix that outside to update
[06:57] <LaserJock> PriceChild: well, I've seen both
[06:57] <PriceChild> so many issues like wireless regressinos
[06:57] <luisbg> LaserJock, ooh sorry, what do you have?
[06:57] <LaserJock> luisbg: just a cold
[06:57] <LaserJock> yeah, hardware regressions always suck :/
[06:58] <PriceChild> check this out: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=283364
[06:58] <PriceChild> "This is just a start,"
[06:59] <luisbg> LaserJock, take care ;)
[06:59] <PriceChild> luisbg: its only a cold :)
[07:01] <luisbg> PriceChild, being sick sucks... even though it's just a plain cold
[07:01] <PriceChild> indeed
[07:02] <PriceChild> I always find it annoying how i forget what being "normal" feels like when feeling ill
[07:04] <LaserJock> ugg, I just can't look at the forums anymore
[07:05] <PriceChild> :)
[07:05] <PriceChild> what's up?
[07:07] <LaserJock> it's just depressing
[07:07] <PriceChild> explain? :)
[07:07] <LaserJock> forums are great to find out everything wrong with Ubuntu
[07:08] <LaserJock> and virtually no help/support for the dev community
[07:08] <luisbg> LaserJock, sellfish pricks
[07:09] <LaserJock> nah
[07:09] <LaserJock> it's just the way it is
[07:09] <luisbg> human nature
[07:09] <LaserJock> people mostly don't realize how the development works
[07:09] <PriceChild> yeah
[07:09] <PriceChild> i completely agree
[07:10] <luisbg> one big problem usually is that people don't know how to report bugs correctly
[07:10] <luisbg> I have given a bunch of linux related courses and lectures
[07:10] <PriceChild> We're trying to address that I think, a sticky here and there to start off with
[07:10] <luisbg> and asking to newbies how would they report a bug... usually gets a lot of silent faces reply
[07:10] <PriceChild> hopefully with Ambassadors things will get done properly
[07:17] <siretart> yeah: == Bug Stats ==
[07:17] <siretart> * Open  (19313) +1337 over two weeks ago
[07:19] <PriceChild> wow
[07:20] <pygi> siretart: blame it all on cdrecord =)
[07:20] <joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah the Server Fire Spread
[07:21] <joejaxx> i did not realize
[07:21] <joejaxx> that it spread to another server
[07:21] <joejaxx> the fire that is
[07:27] <mae> Hey, is there a place I can get a NSD 3.0 deb?
[07:28] <mae> i'm having problems with nsd 2.x included currently and it sending axfr to slaves -- figured i would just upgrade
[07:50] <siretart> whats NSD?
[08:13] <rmjb> hello, Looking for an motu to review (and hopefully advocate) my package on REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3449
[08:15] <PriceChild> argh....
[08:15] <PriceChild> I've just realised i've put dependencies in teh wrong place on my package
[08:26] <LaserJock> anybody know how add something to the environment when executing a crontab
[08:27] <rmjb> do up a script for the command that sets the cariable
[08:27] <rmjb> s/cariable/variable
[09:12] <Sp4rKy> hi there
[09:13] <Sp4rKy> i really need help about the way to (re)create a good initrd.gz when we have modify the live cd ...
[09:14] <luisbg> the only uploads accepted in edgy are for critical bug fixes right?
[09:15] <PriceChild> or critical security patches
[09:15] <secretlondon> exclduing backports
[09:16] <PriceChild> brb
[09:18] <joejaxx> secretlondon: recreated?
[09:18] <joejaxx> bah
[09:18] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy:
[09:18] <joejaxx> are you still there?
[09:19] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: ping
[09:20] <Sp4rKy> yes
[09:20] <Sp4rKy> sorry :)
[09:20] <Sp4rKy> joejaxx: can you help me ?
[09:20] <joejaxx> yes i can :)
[09:20] <joejaxx> mkinitramfs -o /initrd.gz 2.6.17-10-generic on the livecd
[09:21] <joejaxx> that will rebuild the initrd.gz and place it on the root of the livecd filesystem
[09:21] <joejaxx> while you are chroot'd in
[09:22] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: make sure you do that while you are chroot'd into the livecd filesystem
[09:23] <Sp4rKy> joejaxx: yes
[09:23] <Sp4rKy> into my chroot, i've install the 2.6.17 kernel
[09:24] <joejaxx> ok good
[09:24] <Sp4rKy> and so, after logging out of my chroot
[09:24] <joejaxx> nooo
[09:24] <Sp4rKy> ?
[09:24] <joejaxx> wait what are you trying to do exactly?
[09:24] <Sp4rKy> the issue seems to be the ubuntu/capser/initrd.gz file
[09:24] <Sp4rKy> so i want to recreate it
[09:24] <joejaxx> oh ok
[09:25] <Sp4rKy> and so recreate vmlinuz to
[09:25] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: you want to do
[09:25] <joejaxx> mkinitramfs -o /initrd.gz 2.6.17-10-generic
[09:25] <joejaxx> INSIDE
[09:25] <joejaxx> the chroot
[09:25] <Sp4rKy> hmm
[09:25] <Sp4rKy> ok
[09:25] <joejaxx> then after you exit copy it to casper/initrd.gz
[09:25] <Sp4rKy> ok
[09:25] <Sp4rKy> and must i copy the vmlinuz too ?
[09:26] <joejaxx> yes
[09:26] <joejaxx> vmlinuz must be in casper also
[09:29] <Sp4rKy> k
[09:38] <metres> Hi there I'd like to help someone on testing and/or developing package !!
[09:38] <metres> I dont know where to start...
[09:38] <Sp4rKy> metres: you can help me on Ebuntu if you want :)
[09:38] <pygi> metallikop: feel free to read Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[09:38] <metres> What could I do for you ?
[09:38] <pygi> Sp4rKy: don't push it
[09:38] <pygi> metres: have you read packaging guide and debian new maintainer guide?
[09:38] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: :)
[09:39] <Sp4rKy> joejaxx: :)
[09:39] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: enlightenment?
[09:39] <Sp4rKy> joejaxx: i'm trying (rebuild the iso)
[09:39] <Sp4rKy> joejaxx: yep
[09:39] <metres> no where could Im found this ?
[09:40] <joejaxx> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[09:40] <PriceChild> metres i hope you know what you're getting yourself into ;)
[09:40] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: nice
[09:40] <metres> hehehe
[09:40] <Sp4rKy> joejaxx: thx
[09:40] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: it is always nice to see a fellow derivative
[09:40] <Sp4rKy> does the process to become a motu is really hard ?
[09:40] <Sp4rKy> joejaxx: :)
[09:40] <LaserJock> !packagingguide
[09:40] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[09:41] <LaserJock> Sp4rKy: not particularly hard, just takes patience and work
[09:41] <pygi> metres: you should read that two, but you are always welcome to ask what you don't understand
[09:41] <metres> Thanks guys for the links...
[09:41] <pygi> LaserJock: and signed gpg ^_^
[09:41] <Sp4rKy> LaserJock: but about the "test" itself ?
[09:41] <LaserJock> Sp4rKy: there isn't a specific "test"
[09:42] <Sp4rKy> really ?
[09:42] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: patience and work
[09:42] <LaserJock> you work with the MOTU team, people see your work
[09:42] <joejaxx> Sp4rKy: what LaserJock said
[09:42] <Sp4rKy> k
[09:42] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i did not see that you said patience and work before hand :P
[09:42] <LaserJock> and then you go before the Technical Board (or perhaps soon the MOTU Council) and they review your work
[09:42] <Sp4rKy> i thought there's a "test" like to become an ubuntu-member
[09:43] <LaserJock> well, I don't really think of that as a "test" but it is similar
[09:43] <Sp4rKy> k
[09:44] <PriceChild> to become an ubuntu member you just have to be able to prove you've given to the community basically
[09:44] <PriceChild> LaserJock: MOTUC? :O
[09:44] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
[09:44] <LaserJock> PriceChild: Council Grayskull
[09:44] <PriceChild> pardon?
[09:45] <LaserJock> PriceChild: that's the name of the MOTU council that will be handling membership and MOTU applications
[09:45] <Sp4rKy> LaserJock: bookmarked
[09:45] <PriceChild> why Grayskull?
[09:45] <LaserJock> PriceChild: comes from He-Man
[09:45] <pygi> PriceChild: because, think :)
[09:45] <pygi> PriceChild: cartoons ^_^
[09:45] <LaserJock> as does the name MOTU
[09:45] <PriceChild> he he cool :)
[09:45] <PriceChild> ahhhh i getcha now
[09:46] <Sp4rKy> PriceChild: i know for the ubuntu member coucil (i'm one :)
[09:46] <PriceChild> ah k sorry Sp4rKy
[09:46] <LaserJock> bbiab
[09:46] <PriceChild> I'm gonna apply at next CC meting
[09:46] <PriceChild> *meeting
[09:46] <Sp4rKy> PriceChild: np
[09:49] <Adri2000> Sp4rKy: what's the "test" to become an ubuntu member?
[09:49] <Sp4rKy> Adri2000: not really a test in fact
[09:49] <Sp4rKy> just write your name to the next CC list
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> and come at the CC
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> and wait a "CC member" talk to you
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> and then talk about what you do for Ubuntu
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> help / installation / packaging / translation / bugs ...
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> all kind of contribution
[09:50] <Adri2000> yeah ok, you don't have a piece of paper with questions, one hour to do it... :p
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> nop
[09:51] <pygi> Adri2000: hehe :)
[09:51] <secretlondon> you need a history of activity and to document it - and recommendations from people
[09:51] <secretlondon> admittedly i haven't done it yet
[09:51] <Sp4rKy> and so CC member say "yes, you're 'able' to become an ubuntu member"
[09:51] <Sp4rKy> or not
[09:51] <pygi> secretlondon: ^_^
[09:52] <pygi> Sp4rKy: one CC member not enough ;)
[09:52] <Sp4rKy> pygi: i know
[09:52] <Sp4rKy> 3 in fact
[09:52] <Sp4rKy> or you maybe can help some special team
[09:52] <Sp4rKy> ...
[09:52] <Adri2000> sabdfl is supposed to be present at every CC?
[09:52] <LaserJock> no
[09:52] <LaserJock> he's often away
[09:54] <Adri2000> ok, and there is still no date for the next CC?
[09:54] <Adri2000> it should be every two weeks
[09:54] <PriceChild> I've been waiting for the next CC since october :(
[09:54] <LaserJock> usually the developer summits and releases mess up the schedule
[09:55] <LaserJock> as the people on the CC and TB are often the people doing a lot of the work
[09:55] <PriceChild> yeah
[09:55] <giskard> LaserJock, a motu con become CC or TB=
[09:55] <giskard> ?
[09:55] <LaserJock> giskard: can they be on the CC or TB?
[09:56] <LaserJock> is that what you're asking
[09:56] <giskard> yes
[09:56] <LaserJock> siretart: ssshh
[09:56] <LaserJock> giskard: sure
[09:56] <LaserJock> giskard: any member is eligible for CC
[09:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62751 in cryptsetup "Upstart doesn't activate luks volumes in cryptsetup" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62751
[09:56] <giskard> LaserJock, idem for TB?
[09:56] <giskard> !revu
[09:56] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[09:56] <LaserJock> giskard: I'd imagine that it would take being a core-dev to be on the TB
[09:57] <LaserJock> giskard: but there is no rule against a MOTU being on the TB I don't think
[09:57] <LaserJock> nominations are given to sabdfl
[09:57] <LaserJock> he picks people
[09:57] <LaserJock> and they are voted on by the developers/members
[09:58] <giskard> ok
[09:58] <siretart> TB ppl should have a good understanding of technical issues in ubuntu. those ppl are commonly found in ubuntu-core-dev
[09:58] <LaserJock> it should all be happening very soon too
[09:58] <LaserJock> now that the Canonical all-hands meeting is done
[10:00] <pygi> PriceChild: it seems we'll keep search disabled after all for now, at least according to current votes
[10:00] <pygi> PriceChild: lol, all want tracker^_^
[10:00] <giskard> pygi, hello
[10:00] <pygi> hey ho giskard :)
[10:00] <PriceChild> he he :)
[10:00] <PriceChild> pygi: leave it up at least a day or two first though
[10:00] <PriceChild> you've only seen the opinions of a small group
[10:01] <pygi> PriceChild: I will, but Brasero currently doesn't include tracker support, so no point including it as dep when it wouldnt work :p
[10:01] <PriceChild> he he ok
[10:01] <PriceChild> but you might get more feedback about the real question
[10:01] <pygi> yes, I know ...
[10:01] <pygi> and we have plans to include an abstraction layers for burning and search backends...
[10:02] <pygi> it's just not the right time ^_^
[10:02] <PriceChild> he he ok :)
[10:02] <ajmitch> morning all
[10:03] <PriceChild> morning
[10:03] <secretlondon> morning
[10:06] <pygi> PriceChild: it's just interesting how radical opinions some people have ^_^
[10:07] <ajmitch> pygi: like "you *MUST* use tracker"?
[10:07] <pygi> ajmitch: yes ^_^
[10:16] <Laser_away> pygi: what's the point of having tracker/beagle support?
[10:17] <pygi> Laser_away: to have search panel enabled in Brasero...
[10:17] <Laser_away> well, but what are you supposed to search for?
[10:17] <pygi> Laser_away: dunno, files you wanna include on cd or something?
[10:17] <Laser_away> hm
[10:18] <pygi> with a preview, bla, bla
[10:21] <cbx33> why would I search for files I've just put onto a cd?
[10:21] <cbx33> just curious?
[10:22] <Burgundavia> cbx33: I have about 35 cds with random things I have burned on them. I would like to be able to find something on one of those cds easily
[10:22] <cbx33> so is the idea to store in a db everything you've ever written onto a cd?
[10:23] <Burgundavia> only stuff you want
[10:23] <nixternal> ;p
[10:24] <PriceChild> pygi: that's what you get with linux :)
[10:24] <pygi> cbx33: even before you've put to cd, you can do a preview of images, music, video, etc
[10:33] <Simon80> cbx33: there's a mac app that does this search thing
[10:33] <Simon80> I forget the name, but they're one of those "we're perpetually in beta" apps
[10:34] <Simon80> IMO beta is a label you use for the short time in between alpha and release
[10:34] <Simon80> not some snobby indicator that you're somehow cutting edge
[10:38] <pygi> Simon80: why not? ^_^
[10:38] <Simon80> lol
[10:38] <pygi> Simon80: I can't call libburn neither alpha and certainly not release (1.0) ready
[10:38] <Simon80> because it's a misuse of the word for marketing purposes
[10:38] <Simon80> pygi: you aren't selling libburn
[10:38] <pygi> Simon80: true ^_^
[10:43] <metres> Hi there, I dont found where to report a bug... When I start kdesu konqueror, It is unable to launch kate...
[10:44] <secretlondon> metres: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[10:44] <metres> thank secretlondon
[11:05] <metres> I got  "warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined;" with pbuilder... anyone know why ?
[11:11] <joejaxx> nice Feisty is actually working :)
[11:11] <joejaxx> or is usable
[11:11] <pygi> joejaxx: :P
[11:12] <joejaxx> no seriously
[11:12] <joejaxx> before it whould not accepted any input from my synapticpad and keyboard
[11:13] <joejaxx> and the fonts were messed up a bit
[11:14] <chantra> hi there, I was wondering, using a pbuilder chroot, is it possible to build a package for another distro
[11:15] <pygi> chantra: for debian, yes
[11:15] <pygi> others, havent tried
[11:15] <chantra> I mean, having a edgy package, it is possible to change the debian/ settings such as that
[11:15] <pygi> joejaxx: I know :)
[11:15] <chantra> there is changelogs related to dapper and not edgy anymore?
[11:16] <chantra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/ is down :s
[11:18] <chantra> guys, could i build a package using pbuilder like I would with dpkg-buildpackage?
[11:19] <chantra> maybe debuilmd :)
[11:20] <chantra> nope, does not seem to work
[11:20] <pygi> chantra: may I suggest reading ubuntu packaging guide?
[11:20] <pygi> chantra: debian new maintainers guide as well
[11:20] <chantra> :)
[11:21] <chantra> i'm rather struggling with pbuilder
[11:21] <pygi> heh
[11:21] <chantra> it seems this is rather to build a package, not to modify and rebuild a package
[11:21] <kkubasik> if someone has a sec, can I get a review on this
[11:21] <kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3490
[11:21] <chantra> if you see what i mean
[11:23] <chantra> pygi: do you believe I can get a package built for edgy, change some dependancies in debian/control
[11:23] <chantra> and then rebuild it with pbuilder?
[11:24] <chantra> as far as I can experience with pbuilder, I cannot
[11:24] <chantra> i can only build a package using .dsc file, which means i cannot modify the package
[11:25] <fdoving> you can use 'pdebuild'
[11:26] <chantra> fdoving: never heard of that one, will give it a try :)
[11:26] <chantra> cheers :p
[11:26] <pygi> chantra: well, you can do "debuild -S -sa" and then pbuilder build *.dsc
[11:27] <pygi> chantra: and please, o please, read the guides
[11:27] <chantra> pygi: I did, but I might have missed that bit, cheers
[11:37] <chantra> pdebuild seems to do the job, thanks
[11:38] <chantra> do you guys have any tricks for using pdebuild in a multi-chroot environment
[11:38] <chantra> a bit like we can do with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[11:39] <fdoving> you can use the --pbuilder switch.
[11:39] <fdoving> then you can choose the pbuilder command to use.
[11:42] <chantra> tried pdebuild --pbuilder pbuilder-custom
[11:43] <chantra> this does not seems to work, might try to make some custom pdebuild-xxx so it calls the pbuilder with the appropriate args
[11:44] <pygi> chantra: why are you doing stuff like this? :p
[11:45] <chantra> pygi: :)
[11:46] <chantra> just, some people would like to get a package for dapper
[11:46] <pygi> it's really not a problem to build :P
[11:46] <chantra> i don't have any dapper installed on my comp, and not much space left
[11:46] <pygi> build dapper pbuilder, use "debuild -S -sa" and whatever
[11:46] <pygi> chantra: we use pbuilder, you know :)
[11:46] <chantra> pygi: yep i guess :)
[11:47] <chantra> it just that pdebuild seems to call pbuilder when it is done
[11:47] <chantra> i was wondering if there were any way to make it call the appropriate pbuilder
[11:48] <chantra> such as pbuilder-dapper in my case
[11:48] <pygi> chantra: I told you 1000 times how you can build dapper package, so why complicating? :P
[11:51] <pygi> chantra: change source dir, do "debuild -S -sa" and then "cd .." and "pbuilder-dapper build *.dsc"
[11:52] <nixternal> LaserJock: just so you know, i have nacho libre right here..it was so bad i kept falling asleep during it
[11:52] <LaserJock> bummer, glad I didn't buy it
[11:52] <nixternal> ya, rent do buy it
[11:52] <nixternal> if you have to see it
[11:52] <nixternal> jack black as a mexican isn't funny
[11:53] <chantra> pygi: yep, done and it works, but i just thought we could use pdebuild to trigger the appropriate command
[11:53] <pygi> chantra: dunno, and don't care too much ^_^
[11:53] <nixternal> on that note, i am going for some chili..bbl
[11:53] <pygi> bye nixternal
[11:53] <chantra> pygi: anyway, has you say, debuild -S -sa;cd ..;pbuilder-dapper build *dsc
[11:53] <chantra> workss fine :p
[11:54] <pygi> ofcourse it does :P
[11:54] <giskard> ahah
[11:54] <chantra> okie dokie, catch you later guys, and thanks again
[11:54] <pygi> giskard: still talking?:))))
[11:54] <pygi> bye chantra
[11:54] <giskard> pygi, no :D
[11:54] <pygi> giskard: ok :P
[11:55] <LaserJock> chantra: pdebuild is just a wrapper around debuild -S + pbuilder
[11:55] <chantra> LaserJock: okie dokie
[11:56] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock
[11:56] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[11:56] <pygi> LaserJock: I agree ^_^
[11:57] <pygi> LaserJock: I'd be interested in writing something up for packaging guide for feisty if you allow me
[11:57] <ajmitch> pygi: I suspect he'll welcome any contributions
[11:57] <ajmitch> LaserJock: my hero!
[11:58] <LaserJock> pygi: if you want. I think I'm going to blog an "Packaging Guide wants You!"
[11:58] <ajmitch> ok, lunch time, I'm off for awhile :)
[11:58] <pygi> LaserJock: ok, once you do inform me :) Just tell me what needs writing, and you'll get it in couple of weeks :)
[11:58] <LaserJock> well, you still need to finish the Edubuntu Handbook
[11:58] <pygi> LaserJock: I know that :-/
[11:59] <pygi> LaserJock: working, I'm working :)))
[12:01] <xopher> How does one build a deb from a .dsc+tar.gz source ? w/o pbuilder. Just need to know the command, have forgotten how its done. Without extracting the source first.
[12:02] <chantra> LaserJock: maybe a bit extra saying how to manipulate a package
[12:02] <LaserJock> chantra: mhm
[12:02] <plugwash> xopher i can't see how you could build it without extracting it
[12:02] <chantra> like the debuild -sa -S could be explain in pbuilder howto
[12:02] <plugwash> since the compilers etc will expect there to be a source tree
[12:03] <LaserJock> xopher: yeah, I think you'd need to do a dpkg-source -x first
[12:03] <chantra> LaserJock: here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[12:03] <LaserJock> then debuild
[12:03] <plugwash> so extract it with dpkg-source , change to the directory its extracted to and then run dpkg-buildpackage
[12:03] <xopher> LaserJock, allright, thanks..
[12:03] <chantra> okie got to go, my girlfriend is waiting :s
[12:03] <chantra> catch u
[12:03] <LaserJock> chantra: well yes, the problem is how to arrange the information
[12:04] <chantra> right
[12:05] <LaserJock> the original goal was that the "Getting Started" section was what you read before starting anything
[12:05] <pygi> LaserJock: I'd say that the given examples are too artificial
[12:05] <LaserJock> artificial?
[12:06] <LaserJock> they are packages in the archives
[12:06] <pygi> well, yea. Nobody will in reality package a simple hellp world app.
[12:06] <LaserJock> have you seen the rules for hello?
[12:06] <LaserJock> it's not trivial
[12:06] <LaserJock> I think the hello packages are very good to use
[12:07] <pygi> I know it's not trivial. But other applications are far more complex
[12:07] <LaserJock> they have a hard enough time getting through that
[12:07] <LaserJock> you want it more complicated?
[12:07] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:07] <pygi> yes :P
[12:07] <LaserJock> it shouldn't be about the application
[12:07] <LaserJock> it should be about how to package
[12:07] <pygi> I understand that
[12:08] <LaserJock> I would like to include more info on different areas like Java or python
[12:08] <LaserJock> that might be a bit more advanced
[12:08] <LaserJock> but they are also very hard to write
[12:10] <LaserJock> I just don't have time to do a lot of writing on it :/