[01:13] <LeeJunFan> What handles the acpi button events for volume? Feisty lost mine, I don't know what package to file a bug under.
[01:23] <webben> i asked this hours ago, sorry if anyone's heard it before, but Why can kdelibs5 not be installed alongside libqt4-dev-kdecopy?
[01:23] <webben> How is one supposed to run qtmake-qt4 with the second development snapshot of kde?
[03:05] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ping?
[03:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/72409 needs to be fixed.  it's a regression from edgy
[03:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72409 in kubuntu-meta "kdesu doesnt accept password! but sudo does." [High,Confirmed]  
[03:07] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee
[03:07] <Hobbsee> hey Jucato 
[04:02] <imbrandon> moins all
[04:02] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
[04:03] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee 
[04:03] <imbrandon> figure out the kdesu bug ?
[04:03] <Jucato> hi imbrandon
[04:03] <imbrandon> ello Jucato 
[04:05] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: nope, didnt look
[04:05] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: exam study :(
[04:05] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: 2 exams tomorrow :(
[04:05] <imbrandon> ahh
[04:08] <metres> I just post the bug 72486 and I dont know if its related : when I executed kdesu konqueror, i am unbale to open file with kate...
[04:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72486 in kubuntu-meta "KDEInit ne peut pas lancer  kate . (= KDEInit couldnt launch  kate .)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72486
[04:08] <metres> same idea same time...
[05:37] <imbrandon> hrm
[05:37] <imbrandon> anyone else notice there are no desktop icons in feisty
[05:37] <imbrandon> ( even for files that are on the desktop )
[05:38] <freeflying> imbrandon: feisty can be used now?
[05:39] <imbrandon> hrm never mind, i figured it out
[05:39] <imbrandon> freeflying: i've been using it over a week now, there are lots of quarks though
[05:39] <imbrandon> be warned , its not for everyday use 
[05:40] <freeflying> :)
[05:41] <Hawkwind> imbrandon: Are there any daily Feisty ISO's generated yet ?
[05:41] <imbrandon> not that i'm aware of
[05:42] <imbrandon> its far too early for that anyhow
[05:42] <Hawkwind> I just didn't want to install Edgy in vmware and then upgrade.  But guess I have no choice
[06:02] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: kdesu is broken
[06:02] <Hobbsee> at least you know about that one :P
[06:46] <Mez> Mwuahaha
[06:48] <Hobbsee> hrm?
[06:58] <Mez> you may if your lucky in the near future get to hear my dulcet tones on an internet radio station again
[06:58] <Hobbsee> oh dera...
[07:04] <Mez> hey - I've worked in real radio
[07:24] <crimsun> hmm, uber lng
[07:28] <Mez> crimsun, I couldnt be bothered with vowels for that word
[07:30] <crimsun> :-)  I imagined "uber lung"
[07:31] <Jucato> Hobbsee: you forgot (tm)
[07:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: no i didnt.  look carefely
[07:32] <Hobbsee> *carefully
[07:32] <Jucato> lol it was too small :)
[07:32] <Jucato> looks like just a group '''' to me :P
[07:43] <Mez> Hobbsee, why did you run?
[07:43] <Hobbsee> Mez: at the thought of hearing you on the radio?  :P
[07:43] <Mez> yeah
[07:43] <Mez> :'(
[07:44] <Mez> why ?
[07:44] <Hobbsee> no reason
[07:46] <nixternal> erlang is rediculous..i can't believe im sitting here trying to learn it
[08:22] <kwwii> moin
[08:22] <Jucato> hi kwwii!!
[08:23] <Lure> hi kwwii
[08:23] <kwwii> hi Jucato, Lure :-)
[08:30] <Riddell> morning all
[08:31] <Lure> morning Riddell - already in GMT?
[08:31] <Jucato> 7:31 AM I think
[08:31] <kwwii> moin Riddell
[08:32] <kwwii> Riddell: did you see the makefile that raphink made for oxygen?
[08:33] <imbrandon> moins kwwii and Riddell 
[08:33] <imbrandon> Riddell: back on GMT ? hehe
[08:33] <Riddell> kwwii: I did not
[08:34] <Riddell> I woke up about three hours ago, so not really on GMT yet
[08:34] <imbrandon> heh, getting closer though :)
[08:34] <kwwii> hehe, it took me several days to get back to sleeping all night
[08:35] <kwwii> Riddell: it is in playground/artwork/Oxygen/utils/Makefile (note that you have to put an index.theme in the theme dir, and that it erases the .svn stuff)
[08:39] <Riddell> longer term I don't think KDE should build-dep on inkscape
[08:40] <kwwii> yeah, definitely not...we really need someone to look into hacking ksvg2 or some other k alternative
[08:40] <kwwii> we tried to use rsvg but that had really poor results on the small icons
[08:45] <Riddell> probably easiest just to have the inkscape generated PNGs in SVN 
[08:45] <sebas> Riddell: Same here, woke up at 5.00 CET :/
[08:47] <kwwii> my keeps looking at me funny when I get up earlier than her...she asked me yesterday if I had gone to bed at all :p
[08:47] <sebas> Hehe, same here :>
[08:48] <sebas> Upside is that I'm already quite far sorting out the details for next weekend's meeting
[08:49] <kwwii> sebas: when are you arriving? 
[08:49] <kwwii> I thought about coming on thursday
[08:49] <sebas> I'm arriving on Friday, Wade will be there earlier, however.
[08:51] <kwwii> cool...in the end it is up to my wife, really
[08:51] <sebas> Hehe :>
[09:12] <imbrandon> heay sebas 
[09:13] <imbrandon> kwwii: i gave you and nuno some love in the last UWN ( just a one liner :( )
[09:18] <sebas> Aye, where's the link? (Hello lazyweb)
[09:19] <imbrandon> sebas: to the UWN ? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue21
[09:20] <sebas> imbrandon: Cool :)
[09:20] <imbrandon> haha infact your in there too sebas i forgot about that 
[09:21] <imbrandon> i fogot to add the guidance stuff but i'll add that next issue
[09:21] <sebas> No problem
[09:21] <sebas> Some progress on the idle time detection, btw.
[09:21] <imbrandon> nice
[09:21] <sebas> Looks like we'll have that stuff shortly
[09:22] <imbrandon> nice
[09:29] <imbrandon> hrm
[09:29] <imbrandon> time to hack my pod a bit for soemthing diffrent
[09:35] <freeflying> imbrandon: how about bug fix in edgy? upload directly? or updates?
[09:35] <imbrandon> a bug fix for edgy has to go though the SRU process 
[09:38] <kwwii> imbrandon: he needs all thelove he can get :-)
[09:42] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:16] <Riddell> hi Bochi 
[10:22] <Bochi> moin
[10:39] <imbrandon> zomg
[10:39] <imbrandon> i hate gambas at times
[10:45] <crimsun> but do you hate gambas as often as I hate isa audio devices?
[10:47] <imbrandon> heh probably not
[10:47] <imbrandon> ( as i'm still using it )
[10:50] <crimsun> please make taglib not choke on non-UTF-8 vorbis tags :(
[10:50] <imbrandon> does it ?
[10:50] <imbrandon> that cant be good, /me looks
[10:51] <crimsun> I'll reproduce it later and write up a bug report
[11:16] <Hobbsee> Riddell: :D
[11:16] <Hobbsee> Riddell: so you did know about it :)
[11:16] <Riddell> sure, you told me
[11:16] <Hobbsee> i meant before that
[11:18] <Riddell> it just needs compiled with --with-sudo-kdesu-backend
[11:19] <Hobbsee> ahhhh
[11:19] <Hobbsee> Riddell: also, kubuntu-desktop is uninstallable, due to python-qt4.
[11:22] <Riddell> it complains about k3b when I try and install it
[11:22] <Riddell> no mention of python
[11:23] <Riddell> "python-qt4: Depends: python-sip4 (< 4.5) but 4.5-0ubuntu1 is to be installed"
[11:23] <Hobbsee> that's the one
[11:23] <Riddell> ah well, pyqt4 needs upgraded to the latest version
[11:24] <Hobbsee> quite likely
[11:24] <Riddell> thanks :)
[11:25] <Hobbsee> haha
[11:25] <Hobbsee> Riddell: you could do my two exams tomorrow instead, if you wanted.
[11:27] <Tm_T> Kopete with full speech is fun, soon irritating. =)
[11:28] <Tm_T> Hmm, really should find way to get this useful for restricted ones.
[11:29] <Bochi> Tm_T--
[11:29] <Tm_T> Thank you sir.
[11:47] <imbrandon> crimsun: ( or someone ) is there a way to tell the dependancys of a binary by looking at the binary only ?
[11:48] <sebas> ldd
[11:48] <imbrandon> hrm kk
[11:48] <imbrandon> heh
[11:48] <imbrandon> ugh
[11:49] <Hobbsee> what, about from apt-cache show foo | grep Depends?
[11:49] <imbrandon> if its not a deb it dosent help :)
[11:49] <Hobbsee> you didnt specify what kind of binary
[11:50] <imbrandon> file kpkg
[11:50] <imbrandon> kpkg: a /usr/bin/gbx -x script text executable
[11:50] <imbrandon> ^^ that kind :)
[11:50] <Hobbsee> oh right
[12:02] <fdoving> imbrandon: ping for upload. se bug 69583
[12:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69583 in kopete "SRU: kopete can't connect to ICQ. " [Low,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69583
[12:02] <imbrandon> to -proposed ?
[12:02] <fdoving> yes.
[12:02] <imbrandon> kk
[12:03] <fdoving> didn't know i could change the patch without a new approval. but one can apparently do that.
[12:03] <fdoving> (ref. last comment by mdz)
[12:04] <imbrandon> fdoving: this patch ? http://librarian.launchpad.net/4945802/kopete_fix_kopete0.12.3-0ubuntu1_to_kopete0.12.3-0ubuntu3.debdiff
[12:04] <fdoving> hang on.
[12:06] <fdoving> ubuntu1 to ubuntu3 , yes.
[12:06] <fdoving> that's the one.
[12:06] <fdoving> ubuntu2 is already in -proposed, that's why we jump from ubuntu1 to ubuntu3.
[12:07] <imbrandon> right
[12:07] <fdoving> thanks again :)
[12:07] <imbrandon> np
[12:08] <imbrandon> ahh rockon you already had it targeted correct
[12:08] <fdoving> :)
[12:12] <imbrandon> Riddell: ping
[12:13] <Riddell> hi imbrandon 
[12:14] <fdoving> !find rgb.txt
[12:14] <imbrandon> the email you replied to mez about on the -devel list ( c.f. libmtp and libnjb ) has already been done , libnjb a few months ago and libmtp a week or so ago by me
[12:14] <ubotu> File rgb.txt found in dspam-webfrontend, emacs-snapshot-common, emacs21-common, latex2html, mrtg-contrib (and 8 others)
[12:14] <fdoving> !find /etc/X11/rgb.txt
[12:14] <ubotu> Package/file /etc/x11/rgb.txt does not exist in edgy
[12:14] <fdoving> ehm.
[12:14] <imbrandon> just FYI
[12:15] <imbrandon> infact the edgy amarok uses libnjb and the feisty one uses libnjb and libmtp :)
[12:16] <imbrandon> fdoving: ok uploaded, can you make sure it actualy hits -proposed 
[12:16] <fdoving> imbrandon: thanks.
[12:16] <fdoving> how do i make sure it does? 
[12:16] <imbrandon> no thank you, all i did was upload :)
[12:16] <Riddell> imbrandon: yeah, I'm going through my old unread e-mails and came across your reply shortly after I sent that
[12:16] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:16] <imbrandon> Riddell: okies, just wanted to let ya know
[12:16] <Riddell> thanks
[12:17] <imbrandon> fdoving: by checking ummmm, not sure to be honest
[12:17] <imbrandon> probably have to have it in your sources.list and test the package
[12:17] <imbrandon> fdoving: might be a good question for u-devel when some archive admins are arround
[12:18] <fdoving> ok.
[12:19] <fdoving> imbrandon: is the kopete in feisty fixed? will there be a new upstream? if not, the fix could probably be uploaded there too.
[12:20] <Hobbsee> mind you, imbrandon can take it over, as he has the powers to upload.
[12:21] <fdoving> it's ubuntu1 in feisty too.
[12:21] <fdoving> imbrandon: ping for same debdiff upload to feisty :)
[12:21] <imbrandon> fdoving: then i'll upload that same thing to feisty
[12:21] <imbrandon> ok
[12:22] <fdoving> thanks :)
[12:23] <imbrandon> done
[12:24] <imbrandon> although there might be a conflict now that two packages are in the pool with the same name, hrm, -proposed/-updates should probably have gotten a ubuntu1.X number
[12:24] <imbrandon> it might not hit -proposed anyhow because i'm not seeing ubuntu2 there
[12:24] <imbrandon> anyhow i'll keep an eye out 
[12:24] <imbrandon> fdoving: ^
[12:25] <fdoving> ok.
[12:25] <fdoving> i asked mdz about the versioning some time ago.. he said 1.x is for security only iirc.
[12:30] <ttoine> hello
[12:31] <ttoine> somebody knows where i can find tonio, it is very important 
[12:31] <Riddell> ttoine: he's in here whenever he's online
[12:31] <fdoving> e-mail maybe? 
[12:32] <ttoine> Riddell: so he is not online at the moment
[12:32] <ttoine> i emailed him, yes
[12:33] <Riddell> no, he's not
[12:34] <Riddell> http://www.mandriva.com/en/community/mandrivaone  Mandriva comparison chart seems to list Windows and Kubuntu as their main comparisons
[12:34] <Tm_T> =)
[12:35] <imbrandon> Riddell: hehe nice
[12:35] <Tm_T> That's weird.
[12:36] <Tm_T> Simple Text Processor  Blocnote  Kwrite, Kedit  Kate
[12:36] <Tm_T> Err, Kubuntu doesn't have Kedit as default, and uses Kate about everywhere, right?
[12:36] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: correct
[12:37] <Riddell> we also don't come with the gimp by default
[12:37] <Hobbsee> exactly
[12:37] <Hobbsee> and gnucash
[12:38] <Tm_T> Err, what's that Blocnote? Never used anything like that in Windows.
[12:41] <webben_> Sorry to ask this yet again, but given that kdelibs5 conflicts with the kdecopy libraries, how is one supposed to run qmake-qt4 with the second KDE development snapshot?
[12:41] <Tm_T> Riddell: I presume they threw out all they don't need to run openoffice & firefox to get stuff into one cd.
[12:42] <imbrandon> well without winfloss on there we could add firefox, notice they limit the lang packs , and only have 1cd for i386 
[12:42] <imbrandon> thats really the only diff
[12:42] <imbrandon> the rest is the same on down the line
[12:42] <Tm_T> Hm, true.
[12:42] <ttoine> ok
[12:42] <fdoving> webben_: good question. it's a issue.
[12:43] <ttoine> thanks
[12:43] <ttoine> see you...
[12:44] <webben_> fdoving, is there any workaround? I'm trying to build webkit ... and that means I need KDE4 development packages and qmake.
[12:44] <imbrandon> Riddell: are "we" gonna do the /opt thing for the send snapshot ?
[12:44] <webben_> fdoving, would the best thing be to try and downgrade back to Krash 1
[12:44] <imbrandon> we == you atm i guess
[12:44] <webben_> fdoving, would pulling down kde from subversion work?
[12:45] <webben_> (not that I actually fancy compiling KDE :( )
[12:45] <imbrandon> webben_: poke Riddell , he can probably have a fix soonish
[12:45] <fdoving> Riddell: libqt4-dev-kdecopy have: dbusxml2cpp dbus dbuscpp2xml libqt4-dev have qdbusxml2cpp qdbus and qdbuscpp2xml - what is the correct naming? 
[12:45] <imbrandon> ( or workaround ) brb afk
[12:46] <fdoving> webben_: well.. i'm not sure. others with the same problem have ended up using their own compiled QT for development. keeping the libqt4-nonkdecopy installed.
[12:47] <imbrandon> fdoving: yea but we're trying not to have that happen in feisty
[12:47] <imbrandon> afaik
[12:47] <imbrandon> back in ~30 minutes
[12:47] <webben_> fdoving, I don't suppose there's a howto for doing that? I don't want to mess up my existing KDE install, which is one of the reasons why the Kubuntu packages were attractive in the first place.
[12:49] <fdoving> webben_: not that i'm aware of. I know sredna tried to use kubuntu-packages for development some weeks ago. I think he ended up with a own-compiled-qt.
[12:49] <Riddell> webben_: -kdecopy is obsolete, don't use it
[12:50] <fdoving> webben_: the qt4-kdecopy packages have more than one issue.. 
[12:50] <Riddell> fdoving: don't use them
[12:51] <fdoving> noted.
[12:51] <webben_> ah okay
[12:52] <webben_> Could I download the latest QT libs snapshot from Trolltech and use that the Kubuntu kdelibs5 packages?
[12:52] <webben_> *use that with
[12:53] <Riddell> webben_: just use the normal qt4 packages, that's what kdelibs5 depends on
[12:54] <webben_> Riddell, then where's qmake-qt4?
[12:54] <Tm_T> Humm, I think I try to build KDE4 from svn.
[12:55] <webben_> qmake is  1.07a (Qt 3.3.6)
[12:55] <webben_> as is qmake-qt3
[12:55] <webben_> and that's all I got
[12:55] <Riddell> webben_: it's in libqt4-dev
[12:56] <webben_> ah okay
[12:57] <webben_> Riddell, btw I suspect people will work this out but on
[12:57] <webben_> http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-3.80.2.php
[12:57] <webben_> shouldn't "export KDEHOME=/home//.kde4" read "export KDEHOME=~/.kde4
[12:58] <Tonio_> yop
[12:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm changing kds to install flash9 instead of flash 7
[12:58] <webben_> since /home//.kde4 doesn't exist?
[12:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you notice kdesu is broken since your last upload of kdelibs ?
[12:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: I uploaded a fix a couple of hours ago
[12:59] <imbrandon> Tonio_: he fixed it, and why is k-d-s having something from multiverse ?
[12:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah great ;)
[12:59] <Tonio_> imbrandon: to make it like firefox : auto install flash when required
[12:59] <Tonio_> imbrandon: it doesn't include code from multiverse, but downloads it 
[12:59] <Riddell> webben_: fixed, thanks
[12:59] <webben_> Riddell, yw
[12:59] <imbrandon> Tonio_: hrm, you should possibly make it ask then for gnash too, because no amd64 or ppc support
[01:00] <Tonio_> imbrandon: can be compared to the mp3 script for amarok
[01:00] <webben_> Tonio_, which Flash is it going to install? 7 or 9 beta?
[01:00] <imbrandon> webben_: 9 final
[01:00] <Tonio_> imbrandon: the installation is only performed with i386
[01:00] <webben_> ah okay
[01:00] <Tonio_> imbrandon: we'll probably remove this when gnash becomes mature enough to be used by everyone
[01:00] <imbrandon> Tonio_: ahh ok, can you make the option for gnash ..... no matter of fact i will for amd64 and ppc
[01:01] <Tonio_> imbrandon: hum the problem is that it doesn't install a package.......
[01:01] <imbrandon> what dosent install a package?
[01:01] <Tonio_> imbrandon: it gets the binary from the tar.Gz file provided by adobe
[01:01] <imbrandon> whoa, no no no
[01:01] <Tonio_> with the licence too
[01:01] <imbrandon> DONT do that
[01:01] <webben_> Tonio_, Won't Adobe Flash Player always be at least slightly ahead of Gnash?
[01:01] <imbrandon> wow , NO
[01:01] <imbrandon> Tonio_: stop 
[01:01] <Tonio_> imbrandon: bah it is already in edgy ;)
[01:01] <imbrandon> that will roaly fuck some people
[01:01] <imbrandon> shit
[01:01] <imbrandon> who did that ?
[01:02] <Tonio_> imbrandon: it doesn't with firefox
[01:02] <imbrandon> what the fuck
[01:02] <Tonio_> imbrandon: it is EXACTLY what firefox does
[01:02] <imbrandon> and thats exactly why its patched out of ff in ubuntu
[01:02] <Tonio_> is it ?
[01:02] <imbrandon> yes
[01:02] <imbrandon> it is
[01:02] <Tonio_> it wasn't last time I used it
[01:03] <imbrandon> if you use the firefox from our repos it will NOT auto download flash
[01:03] <imbrandon> just for that very reason
[01:03] <Tonio_> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=29123
[01:03] <Tonio_> this is the patch I added
[01:03] <imbrandon> zomg
[01:03] <fdoving> everyone hates flash anyway.
[01:03] <imbrandon> we need to fix that with a sru quickly
[01:03] <imbrandon> man
[01:03] <Tonio_> imbrandon: we can think of a different way to proceed with feisty, I don't mind
[01:04] <Tonio_> imbrandon: just that this is in edgy, whatever we do it is too late now :)
[01:04] <Tonio_> and afaik nobody complains at the moment
[01:04] <imbrandon> not only a diffrent way to proceeded with feisty but we need to SRU it for edgy also, why do you think automatix breaks upgrades, some of the same type thing
[01:04] <imbrandon> no it isnt too late, with a messup this bad we need to sru it
[01:05] <Tonio_> sru ?
[01:05] <imbrandon> man i wish i had the time today to fix this, ok i'll fix it tonight
[01:05] <imbrandon> stable release update
[01:05] <imbrandon> e.g -updates
[01:05] <Tonio_> ah ok :)
[01:05] <webben_> fdoving: Flash /can/ be used for useful content. And since it /will/ be used for such content, people should be enabled to access it.
[01:05] <Tonio_> well what would you suggest then ?
[01:05] <webben_> Won't FP9 go into the Canonical commercial repository?
[01:05] <Tonio_> removce this and let people install a package manually ?
[01:05] <imbrandon> Tonio_: using the package from multiverse
[01:06] <imbrandon> no
[01:06] <webben_> Couldn't it just be downloaded from there?
[01:06] <Tonio_> don't forget it breaks adept at the moment !
[01:06] <imbrandon> fix the patch to grab the package
[01:06] <imbrandon> then dont fskin use adept to get it
[01:06] <imbrandon> :)
[01:06] <Tonio_> hum, no this isn't possible at the moment since we need to add multiverse etc........
[01:06] <Tonio_> the patch doesn't do that afaik
[01:06] <imbrandon> we do it with amarok we can do it there too
[01:06] <fdoving> well.. enjoy guys. I have to go. Bye.
[01:06] <imbrandon> its not that hard to cvhange it from grabbing a binary from the web to running a bash script
[01:07] <imbrandon> just like amarok
[01:07] <Tonio_> imbrandon: hum........ we should lookat that eventually
[01:07] <imbrandon> Tonio_: wow , not eventualy, this is a major problem, i'll do it tonight
[01:07] <webben_> imbrandon, Why can't it grab a deb from the web?
[01:07] <fdoving> having scripts installing random binaries from the web is.. evil :)
[01:07] <Tonio_> imbrandon: you don't know the way it works at the moment
[01:07] <imbrandon> fdoving: yes and breaks upgrades and packages
[01:07] <Tonio_> imbrandon: the current thing is in kdebase + kds
[01:08] <Tonio_> I'll do the change, don't mind
[01:08] <webben_> imbrandon, what does the shell script do that a deb doesn't?
[01:08] <fdoving> Tonio_: where does this thing fetch flash from? - is the source safe? is the package signed?
[01:08] <Tonio_> fdoving: it does use the tar.gz file from adobe website
[01:08] <Tonio_> not a deb package
[01:08] <webben_> fdoving, It could fetch it from a special repository created for kubuntu if canonical doesn't put it in commercial
[01:08] <fdoving> webben_: keep track of files it installs, check checksums of installed files, etc.
[01:08] <imbrandon> fdoving: no its grabbing it from adbobe, but even if it was it will still break that packages and upgrades later, think about when security updates are added
[01:09] <fdoving> webben_: that's what imbrandon wants to change.
[01:09] <webben_> fdoving, Doesn't a deb do that automatically?
[01:09] <imbrandon> webben_: yes but a deb will also keep track of it and update it when security updates come out
[01:09] <fdoving> webben_: yes, .debs do that autoamtically. if they are signed when they are created.
[01:09] <webben_> fdoving, when you say "binaries" do you mean binaries that are unpackaged?
[01:09] <imbrandon> that happens alot with flash
[01:10] <webben_> fdoving, i.e. non-deb binaries that are just unpacked into a directory somewhere
[01:10] <fdoving> webben_: correct.
[01:10] <webben_> ah okay
[01:10] <webben_> yeah that is bad then
[01:10] <webben_> should definitely be a deb of some sort
[01:10] <fdoving> yes, and from a ubuntu repository.
[01:10] <imbrandon> exactly, if for nothing else the fact of security updates
[01:10] <fdoving> signed with the correct keys.
[01:10] <webben_> (although bear in mind we're talking /one/ file and some symlinks
[01:11] <webben_> fdoving: yep i agree with all that
[01:11] <imbrandon> webben_: it dosent matter, did you see how many secutrity updates were made to flash 7
[01:11] <webben_> imbrandon, sorry, what is "it"?
[01:11] <imbrandon> one file or 50, still dosent matter when you get rooted
[01:11] <fdoving> and now i have to go.
[01:11] <fdoving> bye.
[01:11] <webben_> imbrandon, Oh I agree with that. Just in terms of tracking the installation itself, one file isn't so bad.
[01:12] <webben_> fdoving, bye :)
[01:12] <imbrandon> right but apt should take care of all that, anyhow yes it needs to be fixed asap, man i wish i would have known this before edgy shipped
[01:13] <webben_> imbrandon, Do we know whether Canonical are or aren't going to put FP9 final in the edgy or feisty commercial repositories?
[01:13] <Riddell> what is FP9?
[01:13] <Riddell> oh, flash
[01:13] <webben_> Riddell, sorry... FP9 == Flash Player 9
[01:13] <webben_> Didn't they put FP7 plugin in the Dapper repo?
[01:14] <Tonio_> imbrandon: I'll do the change today
[01:14] <imbrandon> webben_: its in mulitverse, and as far as one witht the binarys thats upto adobe not canonical, they just host it, the parent company does the package
[01:14] <imbrandon> webben_: no
[01:14] <webben_> ah
[01:14] <imbrandon> webben_: there is flashplugin-nonfree in multiverse
[01:14] <imbrandon> ( its 9 on feisty )
[01:14] <imbrandon> and 7 on earlier releases 
[01:14] <webben_> imbrandon: I betcha Canonical could get the adobe guys to add FP9 to commercial
[01:15] <webben_> I mean the developers were busy showing off FP9 on Edgy
[01:15] <imbrandon> webben_: probably if adbobe wished to contact canonical, real and opera contacted canonical not the other way
[01:16] <webben_> imbrandon, Really? How come Canonical can't be proactive in that regard?
[01:16] <imbrandon> ( and to be honest its kinda crazy as they havent updtaed the software to the latest releases nor the latest ubuntu )
[01:16] <imbrandon> webben_: it can if it wished
[01:16] <webben_> imbrandon, Well they haven't done Edgy yet, true. But updates to the latest software shouldn't be done just for the sake of it.
[01:16] <imbrandon> but like i said the parent company packages those etc, not canonical
[01:16] <webben_> (Just like other Ubuntu software is only updated for major bug fixes/security risks).
[01:17] <webben_> And the multiverse package presumably grabs the tar.gz from Adobe's site and installs that?
[01:17] <imbrandon> webben_: when its not managed by us, e.g. if opera manages the packages and they make a relewase its stupid for them not to also package that release, other wise why make it
[01:17] <imbrandon> webben_: yes, but then the package can be updated to get a new security fix and be tracked if need be
[01:18] <webben_> imbrandon, Well. Yes. /If/ they test it. And /if/ it contains security fixes.
[01:18] <imbrandon> thats the major thing
[01:18] <webben_> (I grant you browser releases usually do contain security fixes.)
[01:18] <imbrandon> webben_: no it should reguardless, your missing the point of the commercial repo
[01:18] <imbrandon> its not like an offical distro repo
[01:19] <imbrandon> webben_: exactly and it should be exactly the same on commercial as on their websitre, as THEY maintain both
[01:19] <imbrandon> canonical only provides a central hosting for them
[01:19] <imbrandon> all to have it in one place for the users
[01:19] <webben_> imbrandon, except the ones on the website are (I think) for debian sid not ubuntu systems
[01:20] <webben_> *the Opera website
[01:20] <webben_> They can be used with ubuntu, but not quite officially.
[01:20] <imbrandon> right, so opera has slacked on their commitment, and that is what i was saying
[01:20] <webben_> imbrandon, I see.
[01:21] <imbrandon> anyhow to get back to the main point, for nothing else but security updates alone ( among other things ) konq needs to grab it from our repos not their website
[01:21] <imbrandon> was the main thing behind all this
[01:22] <webben_> imbrandon, Does that mean that if it were added to commercial it /still/ wouldn't solve your problem?
[01:22] <imbrandon> ( and upgrades and transitions etc )
[01:22] <imbrandon> webben_: correct
[01:22] <webben_> imbrandon, So you want to create packages within the Kubuntu repo analogous to the multiverse ones?
[01:22] <imbrandon> no
[01:23] <imbrandon> your missing what its doing
[01:23] <imbrandon> ok there is a package in multiverse that has flash
[01:23] <imbrandon> instead of getting that flash on demand , it gets an unpackaged bin from adobe
[01:24] <imbrandon> and that unpackaged bin cant be tracked or upgraded except manualy by the user, inwich case wouldent have it instaleld on demand
[01:24] <webben_> by "demand" do you mean including the libflashplayer.so file directly inside the deb?
[01:24] <imbrandon> no no no
[01:24] <imbrandon> forgot HOW the deb gets the program, the point is it does
[01:24] <imbrandon> and then can be tracked via packagemanagement
[01:25] <imbrandon> so i dont care if the deb does the same exact thing the script ion konq does
[01:25] <webben_> what does the script currently in konq do?
[01:25] <imbrandon> the konq script is still wrong becouse it dosent install new version and security updates when needed
[01:25] <Tonio_> imbrandon: that's true indeed
[01:26] <imbrandon> it gets the unpackaged bin from adobe
[01:26] <imbrandon> a9 as does the deb ) 
[01:26] <imbrandon> thats whewrre your getting confuised
[01:26] <webben_> imbrandon, Ah so you're problem isn't with the packaging per se, just with Konqueror not grabbing any package at all, just downloading something from adobe's site
[01:27] <imbrandon> exactly
[01:27] <webben_> i mean, it's equivalent from your perspective whether konq grabs a deb from commercial/kubuntu rep/multiverse
[01:27] <webben_> I see
[01:27] <imbrandon> exactly
[01:27] <webben_> it would be good if the KDE devs made that customizable
[01:27] <webben_> so all the distros could set up their lists for konq
[01:28] <imbrandon> its not even offical kde that does that , its a unoffical patch from kde-apps
[01:28] <webben_> ah
[01:28] <imbrandon> thus my hissy fit
[01:28] <webben_> yes i can see that would be hissy-fit-inducing :)
[01:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[01:29] <webben_> But do you agree that should be a KDE-wide fix? Not just something Kubuntu has to hack on to it?
[01:29] <webben_> I mean presumably any distribution using KDE could use something like that?
[01:29] <imbrandon> oh definately , but the imediate problem is this is already in a stable release that needs fixed asap, THEN we can poke upstream if they want it
[01:30] <webben_> So you want to patch Edgy?
[01:30] <imbrandon> yes
[01:30] <webben_> I see.
[01:30] <imbrandon> other wise when feisty ( or a new flash player security update ) comes out , there will be headaches
[01:30] <webben_> imbrandon, Would it not be easier to advise Edgy users to install from multiverse, and patch Fiesty?
[01:31] <webben_> (Seeing as the Ubuntu Restricted Formats wiki page has always done it that way AFAIK.)
[01:31] <imbrandon> webben_: not really, try reaching all 8+ million users , when i can just push a patch to edgy-updates and everyone gets it
[01:31] <webben_> imbrandon, What happens if they've already installed the plugin using that script?
[01:31] <webben_> will the file just get overwritten?
[01:32] <imbrandon> the pactch must take that into account ( e.g thats what replaces in a package are for )
[01:32] <imbrandon> yes
[01:32] <webben_> imbrandon, What the replacement be conditional?
[01:32] <webben_> I mean presumably you're patching Konq.
[01:32] <webben_> So some users will have already installed Flash and some won't.
[01:33] <webben_> So you'll presumably only want to install the Flash package if they've already installed Flash with the script?
[01:33] <imbrandon> right, so the konq patch will need to call a shaell script as does out amarok now for mp3 support instead of getting it from adobe, the shell script will then determine if flash is already installed
[01:33] <imbrandon> and choose what to do
[01:33] <imbrandon> exactly
[01:34] <webben_> I see. That makes sense to me, at least :)
[01:34] <imbrandon> ( or atleaste advise them with a message that its unwise not to doso )
[01:35] <imbrandon> btw , hello, im brandon :)
[01:35] <imbrandon> ( one of the kubuntu dev type people ) 
[01:35] <imbrandon> hehe
[01:37] <webben_> ah, nice to meet you; I'm Ben ... I'm on the Ubuntu accessibility team, not that I do very much other than add bits and pieces to the wiki.
[01:37] <imbrandon> :)
[01:37] <Tonio_> ^e
[01:37] <Tonio_> grmpf...... broken again....
[01:38] <imbrandon> hahah papa stinky Tonio_ 
[01:38] <imbrandon> :)
[01:38] <Tonio_> that's a libqt issue....
[01:38] <Tonio_> ^^
[01:38] <imbrandon> whats broke ?
[01:38] <Tonio_> imbrandon: ^e
[01:38] <Tonio_> can't write this anymore correctly
[01:38] <Tonio_> ^a ^u
[01:39] <Tonio_> e
[01:39] <imbrandon> ahh the french letter ?
[01:39] <Tonio_> yup
[01:39] <Tonio_> I had to fix this for edgy, and the same problem is there again ;)
[01:40] <Tonio_> I was looking at kio-apt + kpkgmanager....
[01:40] <Tonio_> seems a very nice way to install/remove packages
[01:40] <imbrandon> heh yea i looked at kpackage too
[01:40] <imbrandon> its kinda clunky for joe
[01:41] <imbrandon> i've actualy been looking at smart more
[01:41] <webben_> Does KDE have an equivalent to Gnome's System -> Preferences -> Keyboard -> Layout options?
[01:41] <Tonio_> imbrandon: bah if you had en entry in kmenu to go to apt:/
[01:41] <webben_> Because that allows you to set up a compose key and stuff
[01:41] <Tonio_> it is easy to use
[01:41] <Tonio_> webben_: it does of course but it is broken
[01:41] <webben_> ah
[01:42] <webben_> Tonio_, Is it actually part of the desktop environments, or are those control panels just a front-end to some X configuration file somewhere?
[01:42] <Tonio_> webben_: qt-x11-free is the package causing problems
[01:42] <Tonio_> webben_: the issue is in the qt packages, not X
[01:42] <Tonio_> I don't have the issue in a tty
[01:44] <imbrandon> hrm if you could install and remove and upgrade ( not just search with kio_apt ) it would rock
[01:44] <imbrandon> it could easly replace adept
[01:45] <Tonio_> imbrandon: you can :)
[01:45] <Tonio_> it even supports dist-upgrade, which adept doesn't
[01:45] <imbrandon> how ?
[01:45] <Tonio_> kio-apt uses kpkgmanager
[01:45] <Tonio_> and this supports dist-upgrade
[01:46] <imbrandon> i dont see any install / remove  / upgrade stuff
[01:46] <Tonio_> the only thing is the support of debconf eventually, I don't know if it works$
[01:46] <Tonio_> imbrandon: you need to install kpkgmanager
[01:46] <Tonio_> rebuild it from source against edgy and it works
[01:46] <Tonio_> take the source from the debian repo on the official website
[01:46] <imbrandon> then kio_apt will automaticly know its installed ?
[01:46] <Tonio_> when kpkgmanager is installed it brings you the install, remove etc...... buttons
[01:47] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yup
[01:47] <imbrandon> nice i'll have to try that when i get home
[01:47] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yes ;)
[01:47] <imbrandon> i have to get into the shower and leave for a meeting in a few minutes
[01:47] <Tonio_> I'm testing but that WAY faster adept is and really, a web interface is so nice in my opinion....
[01:47] <imbrandon> Tonio_: so are you gonna fix the konq thing? or do you want me to ?
[01:48] <imbrandon> Tonio_: imho anything is better than adept , shhhhh
[01:48] <imbrandon> lol
[01:48] <Tonio_> imbrandon: lol
[01:48] <Tonio_> imbrandon: http://toio.homelinux.org/tmp/capture8.png
[01:49] <Tonio_> imbrandon: remove button is there
[01:49] <imbrandon> as for as an update notifyier i'm sure we coudl whip one up in gambas or python to call kio_apt when needed
[01:49] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yes, we could do that easilly
[01:49] <imbrandon> ahh nice
[01:49] <Tonio_> imbrandon: honnestly, a kio as the default package manager would be so cool in my opinion
[01:49] <imbrandon> ok yea i'll look at this when i get home
[01:50] <Tonio_> and easy to integrate (css kubuntu theme)
[01:50] <imbrandon> Tonio_: yea , this would have been nice to review at UDS
[01:50] <imbrandon> Tonio_: exactly
[01:50] <Tonio_> imbrandon: I'll put the package in my repo
[01:50] <imbrandon> its not in ours now ?
[01:50] <Tonio_> nope
[01:50] <Tonio_> imbrandon: I will do so that we all can test this
[01:50] <imbrandon> just make sure its packaged good and upload to feisty as NEW ( once we all test it )
[01:51] <imbrandon> but yea sounds like a great idea
[01:51] <Tonio_> and the point is that is really maintained
[01:51] <imbrandon> lets get all the kinks worked out and we'll petition Riddell , hehehe
[01:51] <Tonio_> compared to adept...
[01:52] <Tonio_> I'm sure upstream could do some specific stuff for an eventual kubuntu integration
[01:52] <Tonio_> the code is very little
[01:52] <imbrandon> seems VERY fast too
[01:52] <imbrandon> wow Tonio_ great find
[01:53] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yes search is fast
[01:53] <imbrandon> anyhow bbiab i MUST run now , i'll be back in about ~5 hours
[01:53] <Tonio_> imbrandon: and it works with kdesu :)
[01:53] <Tonio_> soooooooooooo cool
[01:53] <imbrandon> hahah yea , rock on
[01:53] <imbrandon> if your not on when i get back leave me a PM with the package url
[01:53] <imbrandon> bbiab
[01:54] <Tonio_> wow !
[01:55] <Tonio_> imbrandon: kpkgmanager integrates to ksystray :)
[01:55] <Tonio_> kicker sorry
[01:55] <Tonio_> can REALLY be used as a replacement to adept
[01:56] <Jucato> ooh new package manager?
[01:56] <Tonio_> Jucato: yup :)
[01:56] <Tonio_> upstream is french so I'll contact him for improvement ideas
[01:56] <Jucato> nice :)
[01:56] <Tonio_> Jucato: but it can already be compared with adept
[01:56] <Tonio_> very smooth
[01:56] <imbrandon> Tonio_: is it in debian ?
[01:57] <Jucato> mornfall seemed to have made some commits for Adept last week
[01:57] <Tonio_> imbrandon: I don't know
[01:58] <imbrandon> wow very active upstream too
[01:58] <imbrandon> Activity Percentile (last week) : 97.94
[02:00] <Jucato> There's a Debian package available in KDE-Apps for KPkgManager: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=11459
[02:00] <imbrandon> yea Tonio_ i wanna see this , upload your packages
[02:00] <Tonio_> imbrandon: I'm porting correctly and upload to my repo
[02:00] <Tonio_> http://ubuntu.tonio.homelinux.org
[02:02] <Tonio_> imbrandon: it still misses a direct access to apt:/ from the systray for example, but that can be added easilly
[02:02] <Tonio_> should be hard to patch for a perfect ubuntu integration
[02:02] <Tonio_> the only missing thing is a source.list manager
[02:02] <Tonio_> but that will be done for feisty
[02:03] <imbrandon> yup
[02:03] <Tonio_> so that's not an issue, we will just have to had a link :)
[02:03] <imbrandon> and it looks like its the same upstream as kioapt
[02:03] <Tonio_> that's really promissing
[02:03] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yes it is
[02:03] <imbrandon> and we already have kioapt
[02:04] <Tonio_> I'll contact him after the tests with a few improvement ideas
[02:04] <imbrandon> ( installed by default i think ) 
[02:04] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yes we have it by default
[02:04] <Jucato> yep
[02:04] <imbrandon> wow very cool, i'll be soo happy when we can get rid of adept
[02:04] <Tonio_> imbrandon: anyway, we will need to provide a good interface for kio-apt, but that's easy (css)
[02:05] <imbrandon> yea i'll work on some css today, thats how i make my money day to day , so i should be able to do that
[02:05] <imbrandon> hehe
[02:05] <Tonio_> well the combinason of kio-apt, kpkgmanager and the new sources.list manager looks like the perfect replacement
[02:05] <imbrandon> i was working on a sources.list manager too, is there one in kio_apt ?
[02:05] <Jucato> how about update manager/notifier?
[02:05] <imbrandon> Jucato: its there
[02:05] <Tonio_> imbrandon: bo that's not done
[02:05] <Jucato> nice
[02:05] <Jucato> goodbye Adept! :)
[02:06] <imbrandon> looks like the code is very small too
[02:06] <imbrandon> good
[02:06] <Tonio_> imbrandon: the idea is probably to add the "manage repos" button in the systray icon, to use the new apps we will do
[02:06] <imbrandon> yea
[02:06] <Tonio_> provide a "search" button launching konqueror
[02:06] <Tonio_> eveything is easy to do :)
[02:06] <Tonio_> that really rocks ;)
[02:07] <imbrandon> ok gone
[02:07] <Tonio_> imbrandon: okay here is the plan : come back toonight so that we can test this together and get the "implementation plan"
[02:07] <Tonio_> okay ? :)
[02:07] <Jucato> how about a confirmation dialog box before performing a certain task? (which Adept never does)
[02:07] <imbrandon> Tonio_: yup, sounds perfect
[02:07] <Riddell> sources.list manager will be a port of what's in the ubuntu update-manager tool
[02:07] <Riddell> and I doubt very much that kpkgmanager can replace adept
[02:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes I know :)
[02:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: you should test it really
[02:08] <imbrandon> Riddell: i dunno, it looks very very muchso already
[02:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: the combinason of kpkgmanager and kio-apt is very impressive
[02:08] <imbrandon> and its VERYU VEYR fast
[02:08] <Tonio_> a very few changes needed but that can really be done in my opinion
[02:08] <gnomefreak> is there a repo for kpkg-manager? would rather not have to get it from kde-apps.org
[02:09] <Tonio_> good interface with css, search button on kpkgmanager systray icon, and that's it
[02:09] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: my repo in a few minutes
[02:09] <gnomefreak> Tonio_: ty
[02:09] <Tonio_> and an autostart option for kpkgmanager
[02:10] <Tonio_> the only missing feature is "popup the user when a new upgrade is possible"
[02:10] <Tonio_> that misses, but I can ask upstream to implement this
[02:10] <Tonio_> this is the only thing missing
[02:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: and is performs "real" dist-upgrade
[02:11] <Tonio_> not like adept
[02:13] <Riddell> in what way does adept not perform dist-upgrade?
[02:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: bah adept does an upgrade, not a dist-upgrade afaik
[02:17] <Tonio_> that was on mornfall's plan
[02:18] <Riddell> no, it does dist-upgrade if you click "full upgrade"
[02:19] <Jucato> Full Upgrade (which is the default visible button) does dist-upgrade. Safe Upgrade does upgrade, afaik
[02:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum okay I was wrong on that point then
[02:22] <gnomefreak> adept in feisty is asking for su password when i use my password for user its telling me wrong password
[02:23] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: yes that'll be fixed today, Riddell uploaded a fix
[02:24] <gnomefreak> ok
[02:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: fyi, kpkgmanager seems to use debconf correctly too....
[02:49] <gnomefreak> :) installing it now
[02:51] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: don't forget that's just "default packaging", so you have to consider the result without any implementation ;)
[02:51] <Tonio_> and also imagin the potential implementation that can be done
[02:51] <gnomefreak> Tonio_: i know :)
[02:51] <gnomefreak> ty for warning 
[02:52] <gnomefreak> ha
[02:52] <gnomefreak> i guess its all admin apps 
[02:52] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: what ?
[02:53] <gnomefreak> the permissions issue 
[02:53] <Tonio_> yes
[02:53] <Tonio_> we have to wait for kdelibs to be on the repos
[02:53] <gnomefreak> ok
[02:53] <gnomefreak> kio-apt is being upgraded atm
[02:54] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: yes, also you have to manually install kpkgmanager and launch it
[02:54] <Tonio_> I'm preparing the list of missing things to send an email to upstream
[02:54] <Tonio_> the "notifier" option would be great
[02:54] <gnomefreak> i did i tried launching it and i get the permissions issue so im waiting for Riddell's fix
[02:54] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: launch it as normal user
[02:54] <gnomefreak> oh
[02:55] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: it works as user and prompts you for the password for installation
[02:55] <Tonio_> that doesn't work at the moment
[02:55] <Tonio_> but you can still launch it
[02:55] <Jucato> Tonio_: what's your opinion on a confirmation dialog box before the package manager performs an action (install or remove)? preferably one that can be turned on/off
[02:56] <Tonio_> Jucato: that would be "too much" in my opinion
[02:56] <Tonio_> I mean, why confirming when a user as already click on the "install" button ? 
[02:57] <gnomefreak> i like it. its alot lighter than adept and easy to use :)
[02:57] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: yes
[02:57] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: the idea is a systray link to "search" that would launch kio-apt
[02:57] <gnomefreak> cool
[02:57] <Jucato> Tonio_: a lot of the complaints I encountered about Adept before was that it didn't tell the user, in a prominent way, what will be installed or removed, except through the status bar or by click on Preview Changes. I'm not sure if kpkgmanger shows all these info prominently (as I have no way of testing it)
[02:58] <Tonio_> and also something like the icon blinking when new upgrades are available
[02:58] <Tonio_> because there is already a systray integration
[02:58] <Tonio_> then you just have to click and it performs the upgrade or something like that
[02:58] <Tonio_> Jucato: ah !
[02:58] <Tonio_> Jucato: I think kpkgmanager already does that
[02:59] <Tonio_> Jucato: I need to wait for kdelibs to test deeply
[02:59] <Jucato> then that's really great news! :)
[02:59] <Tonio_> Jucato: but as the code is very little (about 500K)
[02:59] <gnomefreak> if its running in background all the time (atleast im assuming that will happen if it blinks for updates) how can we use terminal while its open?
[02:59] <Tonio_> we should be able to patch very easilly
[02:59] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: you mean ?
[02:59] <Jucato> Adept's usability really needs a lot of work, but I'm not sure if the author is willing make those changes
[02:59] <Tonio_> I don't understand the questio
[03:00] <imbrandon> gnomefreak: it dosent lok dpkg, only probes it at intevals
[03:00] <gnomefreak> ah
[03:00] <imbrandon> lock*
[03:00] <Tonio_> Jucato: that's the problem in fact, mornfall doesn't have a lot of time, and adept's code is said to be VERY complex
[03:00] <Tonio_> imbrandon: exactly yes
[03:00] <gnomefreak> so it will do same thing update-manager does atm where a few times a day it runs update
[03:00] <Tonio_> imbrandon: it also can be used from command line afaics :) hehe
[03:00] <imbrandon> gnomefreak: yes
[03:01] <gnomefreak> ok
[03:01] <Jucato> which is what adept_notifier is supposed to do also, right?
[03:01] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes
[03:01] <gnomefreak> Jucato: yes i believe
[03:01] <Tonio_> of course kpkgmanager isn't perfect, but it can be improved to our needs very easilly I think
[03:01] <Tonio_> that's the point, while touching adept is a very complicated thing
[03:01] <Jucato> hopefully, it won't end up like Adept in the long run :)
[03:01] <Tonio_> the other point is that kpkgmanager is very activelly maintained
[03:02] <gnomefreak> just a thought for future can we make kpkgmanager draw bigger window on start up?
[03:02] <Tonio_> Jucato: well, let's test this, list the improvements ideas and contact upstream (I'll do since he is french too)
[03:02] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: yes we of course can
[03:02] <imbrandon> gnomefreak: sure, but most interaction will be done with kio_apt
[03:03] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: kpkgmanager is there for auto-upgrade, will contain link to manage packages
[03:03] <Tonio_> everything else is in kio-apt
[03:03] <gnomefreak> ok that is something i have to play with to understand what it does (kio-apt
[03:03] <Tonio_> imbrandon: debconf works hehe :)
[03:03] <Jucato> Tonio_: oh, access to changelogs would also be nice :)
[03:03] <Tonio_> really cool
[03:03] <imbrandon> yea i noticed
[03:03] <Jucato> gnomefreak: apt:/ in Konqueror
[03:04] <gnomefreak> oh
[03:04] <imbrandon> and even manage packages should be in kio_apt
[03:04] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yes, that's just a link to add to the css/xhtml part
[03:04] <imbrandon> realy only the notifier isnt
[03:04] <Jucato> gnomefreak: a really nifty utility to have
[03:04] <Tonio_> imbrandon: and also a link in the systray right click menu should be there
[03:05] <imbrandon> right , but not "search" , more like "manage software"
[03:05] <imbrandon> but yea
[03:05] <Tonio_> yes
[03:05] <gnomefreak> Jucato: by the looks of things it is a front end to packages.ubuntu.com maybe not that site but a simular site maybe LP
[03:05] <imbrandon> and realy that should be on the kmenu not the icon
[03:05] <Jucato> gnomefreak: it's a front end to apt-cache, dpkg, and packages.ubuntu.com, all in one convenient page/interface
[03:05] <gnomefreak> sweet
[03:05] <Tonio_> imbrandon: bah that should be on the kmenu (just a desktop file opening konqueror) and also on the icon in my opinion
[03:06] <Tonio_> imbrandon: we'll do that toonight :)
[03:06] <imbrandon> yup yup
[03:06] <Tonio_> imbrandon: now >>>> GO !
[03:06] <Tonio_> tou shouldn't be there anymore :)
[03:06] <imbrandon> lol
[03:06] <gnomefreak> oh this is cool
[03:06] <imbrandon> gnomefreak: and fast :)
[03:06] <gnomefreak> yes
[03:06] <imbrandon> and works 
[03:06] <Tonio_> searching is really fast yes
[03:06] <imbrandon> lol
[03:06] <Tonio_> so fast
[03:07] <Jucato> kpkgmanager fanboys :)
[03:07] <Tonio_> can someone kick imbrandon please ? I'll miss his interview !
[03:07] <gnomefreak> file search uses apt-file? or alike?
[03:07] <imbrandon> its not for another hour
[03:07] <imbrandon> :)
[03:07] <Jucato> gnomefreak: dpkg, afaik. apt-file isn't installed by default
[03:07] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: yes it does
[03:07] <gnomefreak> :)
[03:07] <gnomefreak> screw gnome
[03:07] <imbrandon> apt-cache, not apt-file
[03:07] <gnomefreak> ;)
[03:08] <Tonio_> imbrandon: the point is that if a switch is possible, we will need to document everything, since that'll be veryyyyyyyyyyyyy different from the way adept works
[03:08] <Jucato> now, all we need is a KDE port of gdebi... (or maybe kpkgmanager will be able to handle that as well?)
[03:09] <imbrandon> i bet we could make kio_apt handle it
[03:09] <gnomefreak> thats a hard one
[03:09] <imbrandon> Jucato: 
[03:09] <Tonio_> Jucato: no it isn't........ but we can ask upstream for that eventually
[03:09] <Jucato> nice :)
[03:09] <gnomefreak> kio-apt maybe but making kpkgmanager do it will cause alot of bloat :(
[03:10] <Tonio_> well let's integrate it first, then contact upstream and see if he is interested in helping us :)
[03:10] <Tonio_> the idea of having his software as default package manager of one of the most famous kde distros can help :)
[03:10] <Jucato> hehehe
[03:11] <Jucato> finally, a fast package manager that will almost be as powerful as KPackage (which was more powerful than Adept anyway)
[03:11] <Tonio_> and the other thing is : kde4
[03:11] <Tonio_> this is maintained stuff, so he'll probably port that to kde4
[03:11] <Tonio_> concerning adept.............
[03:13] <Jucato> who will have the honor of breaking the news to mornfall? :)
[03:14] <gnomefreak> has it been decided to add it by default and pull adept? i didnt think that was really an option although it s agreat idea
[03:14] <Jucato> not decided yet. Riddel doesn't seem convinced yet anyway
[03:15] <Tonio_> we only are testing
[03:15] <Tonio_> nothing is decided of course
[03:15] <gnomefreak> i would wait til after testing to tell mornfall ;)
[03:15] <Tonio_> it just is a potential solution
[03:15] <Jucato> heh, now I want to install feisty just for this... :P
[03:16] <Tonio_> let's test, implement, contact upstream to get the changes in, and then only, when everyone, including the people on a kubuntu-meeting agrees, we'll eventually pull adept
[03:16] <Tonio_> but the chances are very little :)
[03:16] <gnomefreak> 2.6.19-6 kernel isnt finished yet but alo not installed by upgrade anyway
[03:16] <Tonio_> the only thing is :
[03:16] <Tonio_> it already replaces adept-manager correctly
[03:17] <Tonio_> it replaces adept-installer
[03:17] <Tonio_> it works with debconf correctly, while adept doesn't
[03:17] <Tonio_> it doesn't replace adept-installer
[03:17] <gnomefreak> you mean updater?
[03:17] <Tonio_> it doesn't replace adept-notifier (but could do easilly with a very little patch)
[03:17] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: no I mean installer
[03:18] <Tonio_> the kde equivalent of app-install
[03:18] <gnomefreak> Tonio_: you said it did than you said it didnt so i was wondering
[03:18] <Jucato> hehe
[03:18] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: adept-manager and adept-installer are different applications
[03:18] <Jucato> adept_manager, adept_updater, adept_installer, adept_notifier
[03:18] <gnomefreak> Tonio_ > it replaces adept-installer
[03:18] <Jucato>  <Tonio_> it replaces adept-installer || <Tonio_> it doesn't replace adept-installer
[03:18] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: oups sorry :)
[03:18] <gnomefreak> ;)
[03:19] <Tonio_> it replaces the "adept from command line"
[03:19] <gnomefreak> it doesnt replace it sounds right
[03:19] <gnomefreak> ok
[03:19] <Tonio_> but doesn't replace "adept_installer"
[03:19] <Tonio_> replaces adept_batch, that's the one ;)
[03:20] <Jucato> ah
[03:20] <Jucato> I tried really hard to like Adept... but failed miserably :P
[03:21] <Tm_T> I love apt-get
[03:21] <Tonio_> Jucato: well adept is still the best kde app to manage debian packages....
[03:21] <Tonio_> Jucato: but if a new solution is out, we have to have a look
[03:21] <Jucato> I use apt-get and aptitude (depends on the circumstance). but with autoremove, I might use aptitude less...
[03:21] <Tonio_> Jucato: doesn't mean it'll go in in any way
[03:21] <gnomefreak> other than removing kernels and installing kernels i use apt-get aptitude for everything else related to apt
[03:22] <gnomefreak> Jucato: the problem im seeing is autoremove is it repeats what you are doing
[03:22] <Jucato> Tonio_: it won't go, unless the author stops maintaining it... which hopefully won't happen
[03:22] <gnomefreak> apt-get remove nvidia-glx   autoremove says nvidia-glx is not needed use autoremove to remove it :(
[03:23] <gnomefreak> kind of redundant if you ask me
[03:23] <Jucato> heh I haven't really tried autoremove yet. I let aptitude handle the metapackages for me :)
[03:24] <Jucato> not unless I was using Ubuntu and wanted to test Kubuntu
[03:24] <gnomefreak> the koops or whatever the openoffice thing for kde gets installed with aptitude and all it does is lag the hell out of me
[03:24] <Jucato> openoffice.org-kde?
[03:25] <gnomefreak> no
[03:25] <gnomefreak> ill get the name hodl plaase
[03:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: you re-added kubuntu_84_group_toolbar_viewmode_icons.diff to kdebase package ?
[03:25] <gnomefreak> or not
[03:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think it was finally decided to remove it during the UDS (that's even in the multimedia simplification spec)
[03:26] <gnomefreak> oooqs-kde
[03:26] <gnomefreak> iirc that is a recomends or a suggested and it took me weeks to find out why it was lagging so bad remove tha tand all was good
[03:27] <Jucato> gnomefreak: ah, you used aptitude with Recommends on
[03:27] <gnomefreak> you can use it with recommends off?
[03:27] <Jucato> sudo aptitude install -R
[03:27] <gnomefreak> oh
[03:28] <Jucato> I think the default behavior can also be changed, but I forgot what's the correct entry to put in ~/.aptitude/config
[03:28] <gnomefreak> can always set alias to always run -R
[03:29] <Jucato> yep
[03:29] <gnomefreak> in bash
[03:29] <Jucato> or set the behavior using aptitude's GUI
[03:29] <gnomefreak> will be doing that as it makes more sense 
[03:29] <gnomefreak> aptitudes gui = adept/synaptic?
[03:29] <Jucato> no. the ncurses-based gui.
[03:30] <Jucato> run "aptitude" or "sudo aptitude"
[03:30] <Jucato> (in the terminal)
[03:30] <gnomefreak> oh has to try this brb
[03:30] <Jucato> have fun :)
[03:30] <gnomefreak> ah yes i remember this now
[03:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll ping kamion or mdz today to provide an sru to edgy concerning digikam
[03:47] <Jucato> can I install edgy then just upgrade to feisty? or is there some special voodoo I need to do first? :)
[03:48] <Riddell> Tonio_: what's up with digikam?
[03:48] <Riddell> Jucato: yes (usualy development version disclaimer applies)
[03:48] <Jucato> Riddell: thanks! :)
[03:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: files conflicting between digikam and showfoto
[03:49] <Tonio_> my fault.......
[03:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's fixed in feisty but needs to be fixed in edgy
[03:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning the kubuntu_84_group_toolbar_viewmode_icons.diff patch, did you just missed that it was removed or did you really want it in ?
[03:54] <Riddell> I probably just missed it, but if it's the one that makes the file manager modes into 1 button I want to keep it
[04:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes it is this one...
[04:19] <gnomefreak> 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-1ubuntu6  what does the a.dfsg mean? beta?
[04:21] <Riddell> the "a" means debian uploaded an unreleased 3.5.5 tar which KDE later made a fixed version of before release
[04:21] <Riddell> the dfsg means it has been edited to follow the debian free software guidelines
[04:21] <gnomefreak> ok ty
[04:28] <gnomefreak> might be reading this wrong but are we setting up for kde 4 on feisty?
[04:35] <Riddell> gnomefreak: not by default, but we want all the packages in
[04:36] <gnomefreak> k
[04:48] <nixternal> good mornin'
[04:48] <gnomefreak> morning
[04:48] <Jucato> morning nixternal!
[05:47] <bddebian> Heya
[06:16] <fdoving> imbrandon: ping? 
[06:21] <fdoving> anyone available for a kopete upload to edgy-proposed?
[06:23] <Riddell> fdoving: yes
[06:23] <fdoving> preparing.. hang on.
[06:27] <fdoving> Riddell: http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kopete-fix/edgy-proposed/
[06:27] <fdoving> it's the exact same as the debdiff from the SRU bug, except version number change.
[06:32] <Riddell> fdoving: uploaded
[06:32] <fdoving> Riddell: thanks :)
[06:33] <Riddell> sebas: around?
[06:34] <Riddell> actually, seaLne probably better
[06:42] <allee> fdoving: hi, fabo tagged kwlan 0.5.6-1 today on alioth. But I only he only see s/.gz/.bz2/ in the watch file.  I only tried watch files once with an sf account AFAIR and had no problem.
[06:44] <allee> fdoving: maybe it's best to report the redirect problem on pkg-kde-extras.  If there a bug, we should report a bug against whatever pkg contains the script
[06:44] <fdoving> allee: the problem is with dpatch-get-origtargz, watch files as used by uscan works nicely. but dpatch-get-orig.. doesn't handle all the fancy uscan formats.
[06:45] <fdoving> allee: pkg-kde-extras as in the mailinglist? 
[06:45] <allee> fdoving: yes
[06:51] <fdoving> he didn't use any of my changes.
[06:57] <allee> fabo: ^^ have you seen fdoving post on pkg-kde-talk?
[06:59] <fdoving> hi toma.
[06:59] <fdoving> allee: i pinged him in debian-qt-kde too. :)
[06:59] <toma> hi 
[06:59] <fdoving> I'll have to subscribe to the kde-extras mailinglists.
[07:01] <crimsun> imbrandon: objdump is the most reliable, but you have to hand-walk the dependencies after that.
[07:01] <allee> fdoving: pkg-kde-{commits,extras} are a good way to see what's going on.  pkg-kde-talk is seldomly used (#debian-qt-kde) is the main channel (like with kubuntu-devel ;)
[07:02] <fdoving> allee: i'm subscribed to pkg-kde-commits and just recently subscribed to -talk. need to subscribe to -extras too :)
[07:52] <Tm_T> Hmm, I noticed something weird...
[07:53] <Mez> me? 
[07:53] <Hawkwind> Tm_T: We already know nixternal is weird :P
[07:53] <Hawkwind> Hah Mez
[07:54] <Tm_T> For example, if you change tab colour in konsole, in colour dialog there's "forty colours" palette.
[07:54] <Tm_T> But IIRC that should be "Fourty"
[07:54] <Tm_T> I'm using en_GB, anyone can confirm this?
[07:54] <Hawkwind> In en_US it would be Forty
[07:55] <Hawkwind> I'm not sure about _GB though
[07:55] <Hawkwind> I'd surely assume it should be Fourty
[07:55] <Mez> in _GB it is forty
[07:56] <Hawkwind> Ah, I know GB adds 'u' in some places where we don't have it. It's confusing to remember which is which
[07:56] <Tm_T> Hmm, I can't remember seen "forty" before.
[07:56] <Tm_T> And what I've learned, "forty" should be false.
[07:57] <Mez> ?
[07:57] <Tm_T> But then again, it might be this fever I got.
[07:57] <Tm_T> Mez: HAve been studying english ~10 years or so.
[07:58] <Mez> Tm_T, forty is correct
[07:58] <Mez> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-en-gb
[07:58] <Tm_T> Hmh.
[07:58] <Tm_T> But that doesn't sound right.
[07:59] <Mez> It IS
[07:59] <Tm_T> Mez: I didn't said it's not right, but it doesn't _sound_ right.
[08:00] <Tm_T> Sound & feel.
[08:00] <Tm_T> Anyway, doesn't matter really. =)
[08:00] <Tm_T> Sleep, maybe I get it tomorrow. ->
[08:38] <fdoving> Riddell: are you doing kdebase uploads? could you replace the patch attached in bug 67610
[08:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67610 in kdebase "Typing error in a script for Khelpcenter" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67610
[08:38] <Riddell> fdoving: added to my todo
[08:39] <fdoving> Riddell: thanks.
[08:39] <fdoving> there is also bug 59059
[08:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59059 in kdeedu "Spelling error in KVocTrain (Vocabulary Trainer) app." [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59059
[08:40] <fdoving> patch attached.
[08:40] <fdoving> (debdiff).
[08:41] <fdoving> basket is nice.
[08:44] <Roey> hi!
[08:45] <Roey> I heard Python+KDE is to be found here
[08:45] <_Sime> what do you need to know?
[08:46] <Roey> EVERYTHING.
[08:46] <Roey> _Sime:  I just lvoe python ;)
[08:46] <Roey> and KDE
[08:46] <Roey> and I like to code python+kde in my own little utilities.
[08:46] <Roey> haggai:  yo
[08:46] <_Sime> good
[08:47] <Roey> hmm
[08:48] <Roey> with the C++ bindings, I get this feeling that I need a whole different user account from which to develop within.
[08:48] <Roey> I don't get that feeling with the Python bindings,
[08:48] <Roey> simply because there's no Make process involved
[08:48] <Roey> so I can run the app right from where I develop it..
[08:49] <_Sime> yeah. I've become allergic to build systems. (after auto*)
[08:54] <Roey> _Sime:  so how does the standard PyKDE process go, then?
[08:54] <Roey> there's no build system there?
[08:54] <Roey> (I'm talking about the standard practices among the kubuntu-devel community)
[08:55] <_Sime> There is a kind of install system though. http://www.simonzone.com/software/pykdeextensions/en/index.html
[08:56] <Roey> oh, ok
[08:56] <Roey> thanks _Sime 
[08:56] <_Sime> and there will most likely be a "standard" way in KDE 4.
[08:56] <Roey> there was also this one app
[08:56] <Roey> Lime?
[08:56] <Roey> Luma?
[08:56] <Roey> An LDAP browser in python+kde
[08:56] <Roey> Luma, that's it.
[09:01] <Roey> heh
[10:39] <Tonio_> imbrandon: ping ?
[10:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: isn't that already done in k-d-s ?
[10:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I thought I had already removed that sound
[10:40] <Riddell> I just got it ripping a CD in k3b
[10:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes it is already done
[10:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: do you have a k3b.eventsrc file in ~ ?
[10:41] <Tonio_> all sounds are disabled in kds
[10:41] <Riddell> nope
[10:41] <Tonio_> hum..........
[10:42] <Riddell> I also don't have one in /usr/share/k-d-s
[10:42] <Tonio_> hu ?
[10:42] <Tonio_> maybe I missed the installation of that file......... let me check
[10:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: nope I have it.......
[10:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/k3b.eventsrc
[10:43] <Riddell> my k-d-s knows nothing of it
[10:43] <Riddell> in edgy
[10:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah yes, but that's done in feisty :)
[10:44] <Riddell> ah hah
[10:44] <Tonio_> that's part of the "media simplification"
[10:44] <Riddell> genius
[10:44] <Tonio_> I gave k3b love a bit ;)
[10:44] <Tonio_> I also removed the "auto eject"
[10:44] <Tonio_> that's very annoying when you for example blank a cd before burning
[10:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you have a look at kio-apt/kpkgmanager ?
[10:46] <Tonio_> I'm really impressed by the possibilities of that combinason, really !
[10:46] <Riddell> not yet
[10:46] <Tonio_> I know you're not "hot" with the idea of replacing adept, but I think we can get everything done, in a very easy way, with it
[10:47] <Tonio_> of course apt:/ needs html improvement and kpkgmanager needs patching to tell users that updates are available
[10:47] <Tonio_> but we'll try to get something better with imbrandon and then we may eventually rediscuss this :)
[10:55] <fdoving> kio-apt/kpkgmanager is not actively developed.
[10:56] <fdoving> fyi.
[11:23] <Tonio_> fdoving: isn't it ?
[11:24] <fdoving> Hasn't changed much since the first time I packages kio-apt, for.. breezy or hoary.. don't remember exactly.
[11:24] <fdoving> breezy probably.
[11:25] <Tonio_> fdoving: argh, 2005 !
[11:25] <Tonio_> fdoving: I missed the year, only looked at the month for the last news date hehe :)
[11:25] <Tonio_> I though it was a month ago
[11:25] <Tonio_> http://lpnotfr.free.fr/
[11:25] <Tonio_> fdoving: you're right it seems abandoned........
[11:27] <fdoving> adept is the best out there.. afaik.
[11:27] <fdoving> for kde that is.
[11:27] <Tonio_> fdoving: in fact upstream maintains the debian package but not the tarball....
[11:28] <Tonio_> fdoving: this is why I saw entries in the debian/changelog
[11:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, I know :) but I also added "see changelog for details"
[11:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: there was too much changes to tell everything with the commit message
[11:29] <Riddell> may I suggest copy and paste :)
[11:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: debian/changelog is complete, but the bzr commit message isn't
[11:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: bah aren't bzr commit messages supposed to be small ?
[11:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/36
[11:32] <Tonio_> looks a bit hudge no ? :)
[11:33] <Riddell> there's no reason for commit messages to be small
[11:34] <fdoving> Tonio_: does the workaround for session management work? 
[11:35] <Tonio_> fdoving: yes it does
[11:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, I'll copy/paste in the future then ;)
[11:35] <Tonio_> fdoving: btw, preloading one konq session gives better performances globally
[11:36] <fdoving> I had 3.. 
[11:36] <fdoving> but.. i think you have the wrong bugnumber.. 
[11:36] <fdoving> http://bugs.kde.org/135999
[11:36] <fdoving> doesn't look correct.
[11:38] <Tonio_> fdoving: http://kpkgmanager.cvs.sourceforge.net/kpkgmanager/kpkgmanager/kio-apt/src/
[11:38] <Tonio_> fdoving: you're definitly right :)
[11:38] <fdoving> Tonio_: rpm.cpp 34 hours.
[11:39] <fdoving> dpkg.cpp 34 hours.
[11:39] <fdoving> accepting patches from debian.
[11:39] <Tonio_> fdoving: yes but this is the only modification in month and month
[11:39] <Tonio_> fdoving: no, this is the correct bug number :)
[11:39] <fdoving> ~years.
[11:39] <fdoving> ok.
[11:40] <fdoving> then i'm thinking of another issue..
[11:40] <Tonio_> fdoving: this also workarrounds the error since a preloaded konqueror avoids the crash
[11:40] <fdoving> ok. maybe add a comment to the bug with that information? 
[11:40] <Tonio_> fdoving: bah if mornfall uploaded changes recently to adept, maybe we should just simply forget kio-apt....
[11:41] <fdoving> kio-apt is nice to have... apt:/ is handy.. but for package management.. i think adept with some UI changes, and upgrades has potential.
[11:41] <Tonio_> fdoving: well no need to comment because I'm explaining in the bug that konqueror should be killed to avoid any preloaded session
[11:41] <fdoving> ok.
[11:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: are you aware that kubuntu-desktop is not installable on feisty ?
[11:55] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes
[11:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay ;)
[11:56] <fdoving> kopete failed to build on powerpc and i386, in feisty.
[11:56] <fdoving> hmm.
[12:01] <fdoving> how often will the buildds retry building? 
[12:02] <fdoving> .. will they at all, if not poked?