[02:42] <theCore> LaserJock, have committed any of my patches yet? 
[02:42] <theCore> have you*
[02:42] <LaserJock> no
[02:42] <LaserJock> let me go have a look
[02:44] <LaserJock> just the one for the appendix?
[02:44] <LaserJock> or also the basic.xml one
[02:45] <theCore> both
[02:45] <LaserJock> oh my, I'm really behind
[02:47] <theCore> got them?
[02:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:11] <theCore> are they okay?
[03:12] <LaserJock> me?
[03:12] <theCore> yes
[03:12] <LaserJock> well, I'm sick, tired, and overworked :-)
[03:12] <theCore> no patches :p
[03:13] <theCore> oh, well I sympathize with you
[03:14] <theCore> I am buried by homework
[03:14] <theCore> Science is easy 
[03:14] <theCore> isn't
[03:17] <theCore> LaserJock, by the way, do you program able to find derivative of experimental data
[03:17] <theCore> ?
[03:18] <LaserJock> do I know of a program that will calculate the derivative of experimental data?
[03:18] <theCore> Yes
[03:19] <LaserJock> well, you could use python
[03:19] <LaserJock> do you need it analytically or numerically?
[03:19] <theCore> numerically
[03:20] <theCore> I need to find the equivalence point of a acid-base titration
[03:20] <LaserJock> ah
[03:21] <theCore> I did it in Gnumeric, but it isn't super
[03:21] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:22] <theCore> and then exporting everything to LaTeX after, won't be a lot of fun
[03:22] <LaserJock> hi xopher :-)
[03:23] <xopher> Hi! I got this wiki-guide ready (how to build an up to date nvidia-glx for ubuntu) - now, how do I get it into the wiki? 
[03:23] <xopher> hehe
[03:23] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: you around?
[03:28] <xopher> Ah, it was too easy. 
[03:29] <theCore> xopher, copy-and-paste? :)
[03:30] <xopher> heh, yeah ;)
[03:31] <xopher> Could someone check if it looks even half-decent? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildYourOwnNvidiaGlx
[03:32] <xopher> Im open to suggestions, this is the first time Ive edited a wiki so ;)
[03:42] <xopher> um, well you all seem to be asleep, as should I. Its almost 5am here. Good night all!
[03:46] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: am now
[03:52] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I wondered if you would know about xopher's question
[03:54] <xopher> ..Which I eventually figured out, wasn't that hard, heh. I was looking for a 'send this out to the wiki'-button, obviously the answer was much simpler.
[03:55] <LaserJock> xopher: where did you put it?
[03:55] <xopher> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildYourOwnNvidiaGlx
[03:58] <LaserJock> hmm, I was thinking it might go on help.ubuntu.com/community/
[03:58] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure
[04:05] <theCore> xopher, oh, you already correct my mistake ;)
[04:05] <theCore> corrected*
[04:05] <xopher> ;)
[04:05] <theCore> *sigh* I'm too tired
[04:06] <xopher> As am I. Now Ill hit the sack for real. Good night!
[04:13] <theCore> LaserJock, so, how Python (or something else) to calculate the derivative of experimental data?
[04:13] <theCore> how could I use*
[04:13] <theCore> any ideas?
[04:13] <LaserJock> theCore: well, I'm pretty sure you could use scipy
[04:14] <theCore> yeah, I saw scipy, but I ain't sure if it would be better than Gnumeric  
[04:14] <theCore> anyway, thanks again
[04:16] <LaserJock> well, they are totally different
[04:16] <theCore> LaserJock, by the way, does the patches were okay?
[04:16] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm committing them as we speak
[04:16] <theCore> cool
[04:17] <theCore> okay, not yet
[04:17] <theCore> :)
[04:18] <LaserJock> heh
[04:18] <theCore> ah1
[04:18] <LaserJock> it's there
[04:18] <theCore> got it
[04:19] <theCore> now, I should do more
[04:22] <Burgundavia> anybody got a dapper system up?
[04:26] <LaserJock> mine's not on
[04:27] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Server
[04:27] <Burgundavia> doesn't help
[04:27] <Burgundavia> neither of you
[04:27] <LaserJock> :(
[04:27] <Burgundavia> :)
[04:27] <LaserJock> Corey hates us :/
[04:28] <Burgundavia> no, I love you all
[04:28] <Burgundavia> you're just useless :)
[04:29] <theCore> Burgundavia, I could bring one alive
[04:29] <Burgundavia> got it
[04:29] <theCore> why you need a Dapper system?
[04:30] <LaserJock> theCore: see #ubuntu-motu
[04:30] <theCore> ah
[04:33] <Burgundavia> for da book
[04:33] <LaserJock> working on updates?
[04:34] <Burgundavia> yep
[04:34] <Burgundavia> painful character counting
[04:40] <theCore> Burgundavia, character counting?
[04:41] <tonyyarusso> I don't think I want to know
[04:41] <Burgundavia> because the book is not going back through the editing process, any changes need to remain within the existing formatting
[04:41] <Burgundavia> so I have to count characters
[04:41] <theCore> what about wc?
[04:41] <theCore> okay
[04:42] <Burgundavia> it is more a matter of thinking around the problem
[04:42] <LaserJock> mhm
[04:42] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Sounds like when I try to edit my "What is Ubuntu" handout
[04:42] <Burgundavia> nah, this is worse
[04:43] <theCore> is in DocBook or .doc?
[04:44] <Burgundavia> I have no idea what it is actually laid out in
[04:44] <Burgundavia> I am working of a printed copy
[04:45] <Burgundavia> xopher: your howto is on the wrong wiki
[05:24] <nixternal> hiya doc people
[05:37] <LaserJock> hiya nixternal 
[05:37] <nixternal> wasabi
[05:38] <LaserJock> I don't think he's in here :-)
[05:38] <nixternal> heh
[05:41] <theCore> <-- off for tonight
[05:41] <LaserJock> cya, thanks for the patches
[05:41] <theCore> np
[05:42] <nixternal> ya, i seen the patches get applied...looked pretty signifigant...probably need to repring out my guide ;)
[05:47] <LaserJock> bah
[06:14] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: so is this Linux Mint thing going anywhere?
[06:14] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: no idea. I would expect it to die out
[06:15] <LaserJock> kinda interesting to see the spectrum from Linux Mint to gNewSense
[06:20] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: How is Linux Mint possible?
[06:20] <Burgundavia> either they are breaking the law or irish law is different
[06:20] <Burgundavia> I suspec that former
[06:20] <tonyyarusso> Ah
[06:21] <tonyyarusso> That was my thought too, but I wasn't sure if I was missing something
[06:33] <Burgundavia> some of it depends on what they ship
[06:33] <Burgundavia> if they are shipping w32codecs, that is an issue
[06:38] <tonyyarusso> What about if they were based in Sweden?  I think they have very few restrictions.
[06:44] <Burgundavia> w32codecs is illegal is any country that has signed Berne
[08:24] <Burgundavia> mdke_: you around yet?
[08:27] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomatixInstallationScript?highlight=%285.04%29 <-- thoughts?
[08:27] <Madpilot> there's a EasyUbuntu page somewhere too
[08:28] <Madpilot> kill them both, redirect to WhyInstallScriptsSuck ;)
[08:34] <Burgundavia> check out automatix now
[08:35] <Madpilot> heh. you should redirect the old AutomatixInstallationScript page there, too
[08:38] <Burgundavia> done
[08:40] <LaserJock> ohhh, you're gonna make some people mad :-)
[08:40] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:40] <Burgundavia> I wonder if I should ACL those pages
[08:41] <LaserJock> well, it would be nice to have a point by point, this is what Automatix is trying to do, this is how to do it the right way
[08:42] <Burgundavia> I added two, but I am not certain what else it does
[08:42] <Madpilot> break things?
[08:42] <LaserJock> well, it used to install Opera and Realplayer
[08:43] <Madpilot> cause flamewars and sulking?
[08:43] <LaserJock> http://getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Software_and_Tweaks
[08:43] <Burgundavia> are we nuking catdoc from docs?
[08:44] <LaserJock> oh man, it installs beagle!
[08:44] <LaserJock> I gotta get it!
[08:44] <Burgundavia> it duplicates so much from add/remove it isn't funny
[08:44] <LaserJock> exactly
[08:44] <LaserJock> that's what I want to get to people
[08:45] <LaserJock> not only does it break things
[08:45] <LaserJock> it's obsolete
[08:47] <crimsun> it may be nice to put a link near the top of the page to instructions for creating and submitting Ubuntu specs
[08:47] <Burgundavia> wow, I love how much easier each version of Ubuntu becomes
[08:47] <Burgundavia> I am nuking huges amounts of hoary only docs
[08:49] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, CatDoc stuff should be moved - or nuked, if it's obselete
[08:50] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:50] <Burgundavia> there is lots on teh wiki that has not been touched for a good long time
[08:53] <Burgundavia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/ <-- nuke and move  /6.06 into its place?
[08:57] <mdke> Burgundavia: I am now around
[08:58] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, Gmail ad creepiness: when I just got an email from the wiki about your RestrictedFormats edit, the text ad at the top was for Userful...
[08:58] <Burgundavia> weird
[08:58] <Burgundavia> forward it to me?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> mdke: I had something to ask you
[08:58] <Burgundavia> but right now I am cleaning up the help wiki, via the sword
[08:59] <mdke> that automatix stuff is just going to increase tensions between who is seen to be on the side of the "official" wiki community and the forum, elsewhere. I think you should clearly set out what automatix is, the problems behind it, and link to it for users that want to use it anyway, without using words like "highly dangerous"
[09:01] <mdke> Burgundavia: what do you want to ask? I won't be around for long
[09:01] <Burgundavia> mdke: I have forgotten
[09:01] <mdke> ah
[09:01] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, gmail just had "Turn 1 PC into 10 - www.Userful.com - Multiple users share a single computer simultaneously." as the ad
[09:01] <Burgundavia> I will just delete teh automatix page then
[09:01] <Burgundavia> don
[09:02] <Burgundavia> don't have time or the inclintation to do it justice
[09:03] <mdke> then revert it and ask someone else to
[09:03] <mdke> you can't just delete pages others have written, it's nasty
[09:04] <mdke> insert a warning at the top asking someone to document its issues
[09:04] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:04] <mdke> who is good at that stuff? Seveas maybe
[09:04] <Burgundavia> he would be good
[09:05] <Burgundavia> Seveas: ping (ignore the one in -locoteams)
[09:05] <Burgundavia> well, I have run riot this evening
[09:06] <mdke> heh
[09:07] <mdke> you mentioned yesterday you saw some problems with the wiki
[09:07] <mdke> what were they?
[09:07] <Burgundavia> I hate how mailman/firefox treat all the admindb logins as one page
[09:07] <Burgundavia> mostly neglect
[09:08] <mdke> (at both)
[09:08] <Burgundavia> given I admin 5 mailing lists, it gets annoying
[09:08] <mdke> me too.
[09:08] <mdke> if you have any ideas to help us get the wiki more self-maintaining, post to -doc and we'll see what we can do
[09:08] <Burgundavia> mostly it is more eyeballs
[09:09] <Burgundavia> we need to draw the contributors in
[09:10] <Burgundavia> what is really annoying is that the -devel moderator password is autogenned crap
[10:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72526 in ubuntu-docs "One letter is missing in a sentence" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72526
[10:53] <tonyyserver> Looks like some documentation is not right.
[10:53] <tonyyserver> Now to pull of the address
[10:56] <tonyyserver> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/module-details.html#partman-crypto
[10:56] <tonyyserver> That doc seems to be in error - I see no such option in the installer.
[10:57] <tonyyserver> Anybody know anything about that?
[11:07] <Madpilot> tonyyserver, that might be in the text-only installer on the alternative CD?
[11:07] <tonyyserver> Madpilot: That's what I'm using.
[11:10] <tonyyserver> The option in the "use as" menu simply doesn't exist.
[11:11] <Madpilot> strange. 
[11:12] <tonyyserver> Indeed.
[11:12] <tonyyserver> That would have been really cool too.
[11:13] <tonyyserver> What do we do from here?  File a bug in the installer?  Edit the documentation?  Stand around scratching our heads honking like the lost penguin in Santa Claus is Coming to Town?
[11:14] <Madpilot> start by asking on the docteam ML, I guess, or on -devel. Odd that we've got a nice chunk of docs for something that doesn't seem to exist...
[11:15] <tonyyserver> Send to doc, CC devel perhaps?
[11:16] <Madpilot> can't hurt
[11:17] <tonyyserver> Will do.  Not tonight though, since I have no e-mail client up and running now ;)
[01:36] <xopher> Burgundavia, is this correct: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildYourOwnNvidiaGlx
[01:39] <xopher> Could you quickly explain to me what the differences are between help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.org ?
[06:16] <Seveas> Burgundavia, pong
[07:36] <xopher> Burgwork, are you here? if so could you answer my question please.
[07:36] <Burgwork> xopher: yep, but busy
[07:36] <Burgwork> just a sec
[07:36] <xopher> great
[07:42] <Burgwork> xopher: wiki is for teh community and developers
[07:42] <Burgwork> internal Ubuntu communication
[07:42] <Burgwork> help is strictly for help
[07:46] <Burgwork> xopher: ^
[07:50] <xopher> Right, so it shouldnt be in help.ubuntu.com either then?
[07:51] <xopher> 04:55 xopher https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildYourOwnNvidiaGlx | 05:45 Burgundavia xopher: your howto is on the wrong wiki
[07:53] <Burgwork> xopher: yep
[07:56] <xopher> So where should I put it?
[07:56] <xopher> Im a bit lost with all the wikis still ;)
[07:57] <Burgwork> help
[07:57] <Burgwork> it is a help document
[07:58] <xopher> 14:36 xopher Burgundavia, is this correct: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildYourOwnNvidiaGlx <- so this is right now?
[07:58] <xopher> Sorry for being such an idiot :D
[07:59] <xopher> Allright, I deleted it from wiki.ubuntu.com
[08:06] <mdke> xopher: yeah, that's right. thanks for the contribution. btw, did you check whether there is already some material on that subject on the help wiki?
[08:06] <xopher> I made a search and didnt find anything like it yeah
[08:06] <mdke> I think there is probably already one or more page with similar material, you should incorporate your material into that, rather than adding a new one
[08:07] <mdke> ah, maybe there isn't then. You could make a link on the other nvidia related pages then
[08:08] <mdke> also, can you include in the introduction some examples of when someone might want to use that procedure?
[08:08] <xopher> Well I made a search on nvidia and the closest match is BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia - which walks you through the installing process if the binary file.
[08:08] <xopher> Ill do that yeah
[08:09] <xopher> mdke, how do I link it to other nvidia related pages? Or do I just add links at the bottom of the page? 
[08:12] <mdke> sure, in the introduction or the bottom, whichever is appropriate
[08:13] <mdke> bbl
[08:14] <xopher> right, thanks for the input, and heh, support ;)
[08:43] <mdke> Burgwork: we could do a basic template to include in pages like that automatix one saying something like "Unsupported - this page may contain information which is not supported by the Ubuntu developers and may damage your system."
[08:43] <Burgwork> an idea, but I think we need to discourage it a bit more strongly than that
[08:44] <mdke> that is pretty strong, tbh
[08:44] <mdke> it would be sort of making a start on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance?action=show
[08:45] <Burgwork> yep
[08:47] <LaserJock> yeah, this whole "how official is official?" kind of thing is tough
[08:47] <mdke> bbl again
[08:48] <Burgwork> LaserJock: the more people we bring into helping us, the better we are off
[08:49] <LaserJock> sure
[08:49] <LaserJock> also depends on the quality of the work the "more people" bring :-)
[08:51] <Burgwork> yes
[08:51] <Burgwork> it boils down to this: canonical needs to hire a documentation maintainer
[08:52] <Burgwork> soembody who doesn't write a lot, mostly works with teh community
[08:57] <LaserJock> Burgwork: sure, I'm just not sure if that's gonna happen
[08:58] <Burgwork> yep
[08:58] <Burgwork> we also need somebody willing and able to do it
[08:58] <LaserJock> I'm a little wary of "things aren't going so well, the solution is for Canonical to hire somebody"
[08:58] <Burgwork> it is the one area they currently have nobody
[08:58] <LaserJock> maybe it's true, I just don't know
[08:58] <LaserJock> true
[08:59] <LaserJock> hmm, you would think documentation would be a good area too
[08:59] <LaserJock> as that is a first line of defense in support I suppose
[09:01] <Burgwork> the person would need to work with support quite a lot
[09:19] <dsas> I thought I read somewhere the Canonical support people were starting to write documentation "papers"
[09:20] <LaserJock> I would imagine they would
[09:20] <dsas> I can't remember where I read that mind.
[09:22] <Burgwork> jeff bailey was talking about a kb
[09:41] <mdke> yeah, that's right
[09:41] <mdke> maybe some non free material too