[12:18] <LaserJock> stewski: np
[12:22] <Burgwork> stewski: I would use seamless rdp to a windows server
[12:22] <Burgwork> avoid 2x and citrix
[12:23] <stewski> can you create seamless windows through RDP and regular Terminal services?
[12:23] <stewski> what about SUN?
[12:24] <Burgwork> yes, seamless rdp is a clientside thing
[12:24] <Burgwork> of course, I would simply avoid running windows stuff altogether
[12:25] <stewski> :-)
[12:25] <stewski> well I'm looking from a network design point of view
[12:26] <Burgwork> right
[12:26] <Burgwork> anythign that reduces what you draw is good
[12:26] <Burgwork> seamless rdp or 2x does that
[12:26] <stewski> but I'm trying to investigate the relative merits of each approach
[12:26] <stewski> so how would I go about getting a seamless app running through RDP?
[12:27] <Burgwork> need to get seamless rdp runniung
[12:27] <Burgwork> then need a server
[12:29] <stewski> a terminal server?
[12:29] <stewski> for windows apps
[12:30] <Burgwork> yes
[12:31] <stewski> http://www.codeproject.com/internet/tswindowclipper.asp
[12:32] <stewski> some details there but it seems a little late to clip at the client end?
[12:32] <stewski> have you done much with NX?
[12:33] <Burgwork> nope
[12:33] <stewski> thanks though for the heads up on seamless RDP that's got to work out as a very low cost alternative
[12:34] <stewski> any specifics against ICA/2x other than cost and proprietary?
[12:35] <Burgwork> why pay money for something you get for free?
[12:35] <stewski> I think at the top end its for load balancing and remote access
[12:36] <stewski> but I agree a standard protocol for remote desktops would make the world a nicer place too
[12:37] <stewski> http://www.ncl.cs.columbia.edu/research/thinc/
[12:37] <stewski> this uni have done quite a bit of research and development
[12:37] <stewski> and have even proposed a standard
[12:39] <Burgwork> the nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from
[12:39] <Burgwork> there are already two out there: VNC and RDP
[12:40] <stewski> classic quote, are VNC and RDP open standards?
[12:42] <Burgwork> yes
[12:42] <Burgwork> although RDP has been "extended" by MS
[12:42] <stewski> oh that old chestnut
[12:43] <stewski> so is NX an open standard?
[01:21] <cliebow> nx is awesome!
[01:22] <stewski> have you used it much?
[01:24] <Burgwork> stewski: NX is sort of an open standard
[01:24] <Burgwork> there is a GPL-ed implementatin
[01:26] <stewski> whilst there are free clients that doesn't necessarily make the protocol free does it?
[01:27] <stewski> I could see remote screen protocols getting a bit lock in nasty as they all compete it out
[01:27] <stewski> or am I being over paranoid
[01:28] <cliebow> \i use it a LOT
[01:30] <cliebow> i have ltsp servers in 12 schools..and in combo with x11vnc do a lot of troubleshooting from the "office"
[01:30] <stewski> do you have to support any MS apps cliebow?
[01:35] <cliebow> well..we have citrix running office and "choices" and stuff 
[01:35] <cliebow> dont do much rdp..too tough on the ms servers
[01:35] <stewski> cool though mixed environment
[01:36] <stewski> do you have any useful advice especially regarding network architecture
[01:36] <cliebow> i have oh 80 ltsp terminals..and 100 ibooks..and a bunch of ms machines
[01:36] <cliebow> i am not great on architecture...it just seems to work
[01:36] <stewski> 100mb switched?
[01:36] <cliebow> in the high schools
[01:36] <cliebow> 100 meg switched..with gig backbone
[01:37] <cliebow> and fiber between six schools..ldap auth
[01:37] <stewski> where about in the world are you?
[01:37] <cliebow> ellsworth maine
[01:37] <stewski> U.S.
[01:38] <stewski> do you have any public literature on the setup?
[01:38] <cliebow> so i am part of a group of five that do the six ells..schools..plus we suupport unuion 92
[01:38] <cliebow> which is six school around ellsworth
[01:38] <stewski> would you say FLOSS is getting going in US education
[01:38] <cliebow> not really..i contib a lot to wiki.ltsp.org
[01:39] <cliebow> stewski..it is in isolaTEd places..where someone pushes it
[01:40] <stewski> same over here although I think the government is starting to advocate a little more
[01:40] <cliebow> there is a bunch around Ellsworth..cause i am pushing it..dtrask in vassalboro..derek dresser up in Betherl
[01:40] <cliebow> England>?
[01:40] <stewski> yes well uk
[01:41] <cliebow> i'd like to live there
[01:41] <cliebow> i was in London last MAy during soccer finals..i hjad a blast
[01:41] <stewski> its the 51st state
[01:41] <cliebow> 8~)
[01:42] <stewski> not the best world cup
[01:42] <cliebow> quite a few pockets there running ltsp as well..i drive a hundrfed miles for my Linux Format magazine
[01:43] <stewski> I thought in the US people drove a hundred miles for milk :-)
[01:43] <stewski> how come you were in london?
[01:44] <cliebow> heh..there was a time id have to get a boat offf the mooring in a snowstorm to go after milk
[01:44] <cliebow> just family vacation..
[01:45] <stewski> I've been to NY odd thing visiting cities
[01:45] <cliebow> you in a school?
[01:45] <stewski> no I'm doing a degree, think about teaching when I finish
[01:45] <cliebow> for a hometown oy i had a blast in nyc..helping with the ltsp booth
[01:46] <barktpolar> Hello Room
[01:46] <stewski> helo
[01:46] <barktpolar> Anyone use Edubuntu in Philadelphia Schools?
[01:46] <cliebow> i taught a year..when they tried to poison me..i thought it was ytime to find another line of work'
[01:46] <stewski> ha ha not warm beer?
[01:46] <cliebow> barktpolar: i dont know of anyone..
[01:47] <cliebow> castor oil in my Coke
[01:47] <barktpolar> Oh, cause i heard rumors taht linux can go thorugh school firewalls
[01:47] <barktpolar> and I was wondering if it's true or not
[01:47] <cliebow> it is the guy running it.not so much the distro
[01:48] <stewski> firewall and operating system are unrelated (ish)
[01:48] <cliebow> we fight a lot of proxy stuff in our district
[01:48] <barktpolar> What district are you from?
[01:48] <cliebow> ellsworth maine\
[01:48] <stewski> I'd suggest using whitelists
[01:48] <barktpolar> Cool
[01:49] <barktpolar> I'm a students just ordering Edubuntu
[01:49] <barktpolar> student*
[01:49] <cliebow> you will love it..if you are a little experienced
[01:49] <stewski> is LTSP easy to setup under edubuntu
[01:49] <barktpolar> I'm getting a "buntu" collection going and I have Ubuntu and Kubuntu already
[01:50] <stewski> dont forget xubuntu
[01:50] <cliebow> stewski..using muekow it is very
[01:50] <stewski> and nbuntu
[01:50] <cliebow> xfce is pretty neat
[01:50] <barktpolar> I don't have Xubuntu, not out on Shipit
[01:50] <cliebow> n?
[01:50] <barktpolar> It's a Network Ubuntu running on fluxbox
[01:50] <cliebow>  Cool!
[01:51] <stewski> so I hear
[01:51] <cliebow> ive run kltsp on rhel3 rhel4 various fedoras breezy dapper edgy libranet
[01:51] <barktpolar> OT: Who is better, Tux or Konqi?
[01:52] <cliebow> barktpolar..you can run all at the same time..swap between em
[01:52] <cliebow> Komnqi?
[01:52] <barktpolar> I don't run Network stuff with Ubuntu/Kubuntu anymore
[01:52] <barktpolar> Konqi is the KDE Mascot
[01:52] <cliebow> barktpolar: can t you just d/l the iso?
[01:53] <barktpolar> Dial-up user, that is why I use Shipit
[01:53] <stewski> so how do you see ltsp going with ubuntu?
[01:53] <barktpolar> ltsp?
[01:53] <cliebow> my other lappie i have kubuntu icewm ubuntu 
[01:54] <stewski> lin terminal server project
[01:54] <cliebow> ltsp is linux terminal services..a wauy of turning junk into thin client
[01:54] <barktpolar> I don't have them installed anymore though, but I still have the CDs
[01:55] <barktpolar> has anyone ever taken a test called the ICDL?
[01:55] <cliebow> stewski:edubuntut has integrated ltsp into it..using ubuntu binaries rather than the classic ltsp which is an independently built chrooted filesystem mounted to a thin client'
[01:56] <cliebow> ] via nfs
[01:56] <cliebow> ive used everything from nubus mac to pentium 90 s to ibooks as thin clients
[01:56] <stewski> so does the OS boot through PXE?
[01:57] <barktpolar> Besides, my parents don't allow me to install any of the "buntus" on my HDD right now anyway due to dial-up problems with them
[01:57] <cliebow> pxe or etherboot
[01:57] <stewski> is that reliable?
[01:57] <cliebow> Very
[01:57] <stewski> cool
[01:58] <stewski> what about user management
[01:58] <stewski> the school Im looking at are active directory
[01:58] <cliebow> half the high school depends on thin client junk..management is just the server
[01:59] <cliebow> so change the server.. a hundred clients instantly reflect the change
[01:59] <stewski> I see
[01:59] <cliebow> new firefox?..one install a hundred clients get it instantly
[01:59] <stewski> all the thins are identical boot from server
[01:59] <barktpolar> cliebow, do you use Edubuntu in the school or at your house?
[01:59] <cliebow> yes
[02:00] <stewski> then you remote to apps (seamless)
[02:00] <cliebow> Everywhere!!
[02:00] <cliebow> dont understand the question
[02:00] <stewski> or run local apps
[02:00] <cliebow> you can force apps to run locally.
[02:00] <stewski> do you use RDP/NX or the like to run apps on server
[02:00] <cliebow> but i use all ther junk in the district.
[02:01] <stewski> what about drive mappings
[02:01] <cliebow> ltsp provides a server desktp
[02:01] <cliebow> so whatever the server has..the clients have
[02:02] <cliebow>  we used ad for authentication for several years using winbind
[02:02] <cliebow> and pam_mount for homedirs
[02:02] <stewski> OK
[02:02] <cliebow> but ldap is awesome
[02:02] <stewski> I think the samba team are on a mission with that
[02:02] <cliebow> smbldap\
[02:03] <cliebow> yeah..i talk to john terpstra some
[02:03] <stewski> any word on how long for samba 4
[02:04] <stewski> as I think that's supposed to be the point that samba can import and then replace a directory controller
[02:04] <cliebow> well samba 4 is kind of a fork
[02:04] <stewski> oh right
[02:05] <cliebow> it is not the next step in samba necessarily
[02:05] <cliebow> smbldap is so scriptable it beats the pants off ad
[02:06] <stewski> well the idea sounds ambitious
[02:06] <stewski> Im on an MS course at uni
[02:06] <cliebow> well there is good money there
[02:07] <stewski> they've made a lot of stuff scriptable
[02:07] <cliebow> heh..i kind of make it up as i go along
[02:07] <stewski> they see the threat
[02:07] <stewski> that's computers
[02:07] <cliebow> i guess reallty they always had the ability
[02:07] <stewski> I don't know about that
[02:08] <cliebow> it is just us poor people couldnt afford to set it up to learn it
[02:08] <stewski> I used to hate IIS for its lack of config files and arcane database/reg format
[02:08] <cliebow> so i went linux
[02:08] <cliebow> the lack of logfiles drives me crazy
[02:09] <stewski> I just remember when I realised in nix everything is a file
[02:09] <stewski> seemed genius to me coming from MS land
[02:10] <stewski> OK time for sleep this degree isn't going to pass its self
[02:10] <cliebow> i run my dhcp on alternate port so it is invisible to win machines in a mixed environment
[02:10] <cliebow> yeah..dinner here..
[02:10] <stewski> DHCP is a big security hole
[02:10] <cliebow> nighto1!
[02:11] <stewski> cheeers for the advice and help cliebow
[02:11] <stewski> bye
[02:11] <cliebow> im around #ltsp if you want to meet the creaturs...and an edubuntu dev
[02:11] <cliebow> creators i meant!~
[11:07] <digitalmouse> greetings programs!
[11:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> hey mate :)
[11:08] <digitalmouse> I'm searching through the ubuntu forums and starting to branch out through other distros for a quick answer for this:  any easy way to enable remote desktop for all users at boot-up?  at the moment I have an internet accessible computer in a 'troubled childrens home' and the staff want to be able to see what the kids are surfing from the comfort of their offices.  no problem in logging in to each user account and turning the remote des
[11:11] <digitalmouse> I feel so dirty spamming the ubuntu channels like this :(
[11:12] <digitalmouse> oh the built in remote desktop (vnc based I gather) works quite well.  was just hunting for something I can set at boot time and lock down.
[11:12] <digitalmouse> thanks anyway!
[11:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> sorry :)
[11:42] <digitalmouse> not a problem, was just curious if anyone had done this already - no point re-inventing the wheel if it can be avoided
[11:58] <digitalmouse> hmm.. seems vino is only setup to work *after* login of a user.   better off using a vnc server or enabling the feature in the xorg.conf file
[12:53] <AlbertII> can i get some help here
[12:53] <AlbertII> i wood like to install ubuntu
[12:54] <AlbertII> how long dos it htake to install that f*****g UBUNTU
[12:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> depends on your attitude
[12:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> please watch it
[12:56] <AlbertII> i ha ve no problems installing windows on my old laptop
[12:56] <AlbertII> bud ubuntu
[12:57] <AlbertII> my attitude is ok
[12:57] <AlbertII> bud what i need is some help
[12:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> what is the problem when installing ubuntu? ubuntu or edubuntu? what version of [ed] ubuntu?
[12:58] <AlbertII> i have put the ubuntu cd in my laptop
[12:58] <AlbertII> then choose instalation
[12:58] <AlbertII> then installs kernel
[12:59] <AlbertII> then i enter starx
[12:59] <AlbertII> startx
[12:59] <AlbertII> then i see my mouse pointer
[12:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> so its not booting all the way?
[12:59] <AlbertII> at a moment i can move it 
[12:59] <AlbertII> then i whon't move anymore
[01:00] <AlbertII> bud i stil hear my cd-rom drive spinning
[01:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> what happens if you wait a few minuts?
[01:00] <AlbertII> at this time the cd-rom stops spinning
[01:00] <AlbertII> i have a gray screen
[01:00] <AlbertII> with my mouse pointer
[01:00] <AlbertII> frozen
[01:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> i sugest you ask in #Ubuntu, i cant help you, but since your problems not edubuntu specific, you could try tehre
[01:01] <AlbertII> ok thx for atleast responding
[01:01] <AlbertII> this is the first positieve thing today
[01:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> good luck with it
[01:07] <AlbertII> no luck there
[01:07] <AlbertII> lot's of people
[01:07] <AlbertII> bud no help at all
[01:08] <AlbertII> what i don't understand
[01:08] <AlbertII> is that windows is so easy to install
[01:08] <AlbertII> and linux so hard
[01:08] <AlbertII> that it makes no sense anymore
[01:09] <AlbertII> and windows is also free
[01:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> you have a bug. X isnt starting. its usualy insanely easy
[01:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> i cant tell you how to work around thsi X problem though, as i dont know
[01:09] <AlbertII> it is some bios problem
[01:09] <AlbertII> in the begining it says biios
[01:10] <AlbertII> or force=1
[01:10] <AlbertII> i just restarted my laptop
[01:11] <AlbertII> when i see the problem i write it down here
[01:11] <AlbertII> for the moment i have the ubunto screen
[01:11] <AlbertII> with the moving line
[01:12] <AlbertII> my cd-rom is spinning
[01:12] <AlbertII> line is moving from the left to the right
[01:13] <AlbertII> ubunto screen disapair
[01:13] <AlbertII> i have the -
[01:13] <AlbertII> cd-rom still spinning
[01:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> AlbertII, are you using 6.10 or 6.06?
[01:14] <AlbertII> 6.10
[01:14] <AlbertII> the latest
[01:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> have you tried 6.06?
[01:14] <AlbertII> no
[01:14] <AlbertII> is the 6.10 not better
[01:15] <AlbertII> i only have the flashing -
[01:16] <AlbertII> i wil try the 6.06 LTS
[01:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> 6.06 had more work put it. it might nto have your bug
[01:17] <AlbertII> just rebooted my laptop
[01:17] <AlbertII> strange
[01:18] <AlbertII> it seems to work
[01:18] <AlbertII> loadiing drivers
[01:18] <AlbertII> mounting root file
[01:18] <AlbertII> moving mount points
[01:18] <AlbertII> adding lice cd user
[01:18] <AlbertII> etc....
[01:20] <AlbertII> shit my screen hase gone black
[01:20] <AlbertII> not anymore
[01:20] <AlbertII> out of meory
[01:21] <AlbertII> killed process 3160
[01:21] <AlbertII> gconfigtool1-2
[01:22] <AlbertII> 219.689972 out of memory : killed process 6160 (gconfigtool1-2)
[01:22] <AlbertII> that's on my screen right now
[01:39] <AlbertII> i have a red screen now
[01:40] <AlbertII> with my mouse pointer
[01:41] <AlbertII> i can still move my mouse and my cd-rom is till spining
[01:47] <AlbertII> i have again a ubuntu screen
[01:48] <AlbertII> i can see on that screen window manager
[01:49] <AlbertII> and some icon apear
[02:03] <AlbertII> black screen now bud my cd-rom is still spinning
[02:12] <AlbertII> how long dos it thake to install ubuntu on my old laptop
[02:13] <AlbertII> more then 2 hours?
[02:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> how old?
[02:26] <AlbertII> what  old?
[02:26] <AlbertII> the laptop it's a compaq presario 1200
[02:27] <AlbertII> it's old bud win xp runs fine on it
[02:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> how old is it though? the version means nothing to me
[02:27] <AlbertII> it's a 800mhz
[03:33] <blueonyx> hi
[04:18] <sbalneav> Morning all
[04:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[04:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi bddebian and sbalneav 
[04:19] <sbalneav> Heya
[04:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[04:19] <bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser, sbalneav
[04:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[04:40] <blueonyx> the thinclient here boots till it tries to mount the root fs
[04:41] <blueonyx> but this fails, because it wants to mount 192.168.106.110:192.168.106.110:/opt/ltsp/i386, where 192.168.106.110 is the ip of the root server
[04:41] <blueonyx> but why is this ip present 2 time?
[04:42] <blueonyx> seems to me that ipconfig creates this misery with the /tmp/net.eth0.conf file
[04:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> misconfigured dhcp server probably
[04:42] <blueonyx> the problem is that the dhcp server is another machines than the root server : /
[04:42] <blueonyx> the client is redirected to the root server with a next-server directive
[04:43] <blueonyx> can i change the /tmp/net-eth0.conf and start the process again without running ipconfig?
[04:44] <blueonyx> and how?
[04:44] <blueonyx> : (
[04:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> :(
[04:46] <blueonyx> from where does the client gets its root fs before it tries to mount the server's one? 
[04:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> syslinux.0 afaik is whats used for booting
[04:47] <blueonyx> pxelinux.0 right
[04:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> er, yes. sorry :|
[04:47] <blueonyx> damn its a binary file : (
[04:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh :(
[04:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> you want to cnofigure it?
[04:48] <blueonyx> right
[04:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> you can make a per-host config files, the configs are loaded by mac
[04:48] <blueonyx> yeah
[04:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> (instructions on help.u.c and wiki.edubuntu.org)
[04:49] <sbalneav> blueonyx: Can you paste your dhcpd.conf file to the pastebin?
[04:49] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[04:49] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[04:50] <blueonyx> w8
[04:55] <blueonyx> http://pastebin.com/829725
[04:56] <blueonyx> vornrechts is my thinclient
[04:56] <blueonyx> machine
[05:00] <sbalneav> I'll have to look at the code in the initramfs to figure out how it's coming up with the mount string.  Give me a few minutes.  I don't see anything obviously wrong with your dhcpd.conf
[05:00] <blueonyx> thank you very much
[05:01] <highvoltage> hi edubuntu'ers
[05:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi highvoltage 
[05:01] <highvoltage> howzit goin'?
[05:01] <blueonyx> hi 
[05:02] <highvoltage> hey blueonyx 
[05:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> highvoltage, slow. nothings happening. i'm drop dead tired, and waiting for some people to get online ;\
[05:02] <highvoltage> heh :)
[05:02] <blueonyx> could anybody give me the commando mount uses to mount the / from the server? or even the script which invokes it?
[05:03] <highvoltage> being tired and a bit bored at the same time sux
[05:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> :P 2.30 am, probably another hourish before they arive
[05:03] <highvoltage> "mount 192.168.0.254:/opt/ltsp/i386/ / -o nolock" should do it
[05:04] <highvoltage> blueonyx: of course, change you IP address to your server address :)
[05:04] <sbalneav> blueonyx: It's done in the initramfs, created using initramfs-tools
[05:04] <blueonyx> okay
[05:04] <sbalneav> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs
[05:05] <blueonyx> this produces no error but i feel no change too : /
[05:05] <sbalneav> You can't run that directly.
[05:05] <blueonyx> i forgot to say: i am in the busybox on the thinclient  ; )
[05:06] <sbalneav> It's run from within the initramfs
[05:06] <blueonyx> okay
[05:07] <blueonyx> # FIXME This needs error checking
[05:07] <blueonyx> hehe thats damn right ; )
[05:07] <sbalneav> So, fix it then.
[05:08] <blueonyx> if [ "x${NFSROOT}" = "xauto" ] ; then
[05:08] <blueonyx>                 NFSROOT=${ROOTSERVER}:${ROOTPATH}
[05:08] <blueonyx> i thnk this happens
[05:08] <blueonyx> +i
[05:08] <sbalneav> Wrong
[05:08] <blueonyx> =${ROOTSERVER}:${ROOTPATH}
[05:08] <blueonyx> but the ${ROOTSERVER}: is already included in th ${ROOTPATH}, created by ipconfig
[05:09] <blueonyx> what's wrong?
[05:09] <sbalneav> both ROOTSERVER and ROOTPATH are supplied by ipconfig
[05:09] <sbalneav> so it's ipconfig that's messing up.
[05:12] <blueonyx> how to change this
[05:12] <sbalneav> I'm looking at the source now.
[05:13] <sbalneav> It's probably something in the dhcpd.conf file, but I'm looking.
[05:13] <sbalneav> give me a minute.
[05:15] <blueonyx> the ip of the root path is already stripped out in the dhcpd.conf, but it doesn't matter 
[05:19] <sbalneav> ipconfig is in klibc-utils
[05:21] <blueonyx> ...?
[05:21] <sbalneav> Wait.
[05:21] <blueonyx> kk
[05:21] <sbalneav> You had the ip address in the option root-path in the dhcpd.conf file before, yes?
[05:22] <blueonyx> right
[05:22] <sbalneav> and you removed it, right?
[05:22] <blueonyx> right
[05:22] <sbalneav> Did you restart the dhcp server?
[05:22] <blueonyx> right
[05:22] <sbalneav> No, you didn't :)
[05:23] <sbalneav> Or, you're picking up the wrong dhcpd.conf.
[05:23] <sbalneav> What's the dhcp server? An edubuntu box?
[05:23] <sbalneav> or something else?
[05:23] <blueonyx> it runs suse 9.3
[05:24] <sbalneav> OK, I don't think it restarted.
[05:24] <sbalneav> You're still getting the ip address in the root path.
[05:25] <sbalneav> I've looked at the source, and it just passes along the option root-path as is, so if it's doubled, it's because a dhcp server's still passing it.
[05:26] <sbalneav> So you need to check that.
[05:26] <blueonyx> i am on it
[05:28] <blueonyx> you're right : ))
[05:28] <blueonyx> there must have been a error with the webinterface : /
[05:28] <blueonyx> done it now one a shell
[05:31] <blueonyx> i see a X cursor : ))
[05:31] <blueonyx> but it's damn slow : (
[05:32] <sbalneav> You were the guy with the 3c509?
[05:32] <blueonyx> right
[05:32] <blueonyx> but now on another machine ; )
[05:32] <sbalneav> What's your network connection?
[05:33] <blueonyx> 10 mbit coax
[05:33] <sbalneav> yep, gonna be slow.
[05:33] <sbalneav> collisions + 10 megs = slow.
[05:34] <blueonyx> what schould collide? its atm only one machine O_O
[05:34] <sbalneav> It's coax.
[05:34] <sbalneav> coax ALWAYS gets lots of collisions.
[05:34] <sbalneav> Even with only TWO boxes
[05:35] <sbalneav> And with a thin client, you're having to send lots of data.
[05:36] <sbalneav> NFS root + X is a very chatty protocol.
[05:36] <blueonyx> gnome promts for a user
[05:36] <blueonyx> should there be any with the default install?
[05:37] <blueonyx> yeah of course root (sudo user) ; )
[05:37] <blueonyx> after entering its username and hitting enter - no reaction
[05:38] <sbalneav> what user id you enter?
[05:38] <sbalneav> root?
[05:38] <blueonyx> koenig
[05:38] <sbalneav> that should work.
[05:38] <sbalneav> Is it logging in?
[05:39] <blueonyx> how to check this? 
[05:39] <sbalneav> Check what?
[05:40] <blueonyx> wether it is logging in
[05:41] <blueonyx> uhm
[05:41] <sbalneav> is the screen just blank? or what?  is the koenig user already logged in on the server?
[05:41] <sbalneav> Usually, gnome doesn't like people logged in twice.
[05:41] <blueonyx> is the user created by the install process, automatically added to the chroot?
[05:42] <sbalneav> no, the user doesn't run out of the chroot.
[05:42] <sbalneav> It runs on the server as normal.  The chroot is just for the OS that runs on the client.
[05:43] <blueonyx> i am talking bout the client
[05:43] <blueonyx> it boots to the gnome log in screen
[05:44] <blueonyx> i type in the username i gave to the install process of the edubuntu server and the caret disappears and after that nothing is boing on
[05:45] <sbalneav> I'm confused.  So, you entered the userid "koenig" on the thin client, and then the password, and hit enter, yes?  So, does gnome look like it's starting up?
[05:46] <blueonyx> it does not ask for a passwd
[05:47] <blueonyx> and there is no user koenig in the thinclient's /etc/passwd file
[05:48] <sbalneav> blueonyx: there won't be.
[05:48] <sbalneav> it logs into the server
 is the user created by the install process, automatically added to the chroot?
[05:48] <blueonyx> this is what i meant by that ; )
[05:48] <sbalneav> And I said:
[05:48] <sbalneav> no, the user doesn't run out of the chroot.
[05:49] <blueonyx> and i did not understood what you meant sry
[05:49] <sbalneav> Did you get a grapical login screen or not?
[05:49] <blueonyx> i get it
[05:49] <sbalneav> ok, so you entered "koenig" and hit enter, and it didn't ask for a password?
[05:50] <blueonyx>  the caret disappears and after that nothing is going on
[05:51] <sbalneav> Is the network light flashing like mad?
[05:53] <blueonyx> the problem is
[05:55] <blueonyx> there is no user i can use to login because i have not crated any in the chroot ( /opt/ltsp/i386 ) environment 
[05:55] <blueonyx> thank you for your time
[05:56] <blueonyx> and help of course : )
[05:59] <sbalneav> You don't NEED to create a user in the chroot
[06:00] <sbalneav> You just create them on the server, as normal users.
[06:00] <sbalneav> the chroot is JUST to get the thin client booted with X
[06:00] <sbalneav> it doesn't run any of the userspace stuff
[06:00] <sbalneav> that all runs up on the server like normal.
[06:01] <sbalneav> You should just be able to, on the server, as the admin user, go to Administration -> Users and groups, and add another user.
[06:01] <blueonyx> but it restarts the xserver if i enter a passwd
[06:01] <sbalneav> Then log in as that user on the thin client.
[06:01] <blueonyx> i triy that
[06:04] <sbalneav> By "restarting the server", do you mean you enter the password, and the login screen just comes back?
[06:04] <sbalneav> if so, then on the server, you want to type:
[06:04] <sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
[06:04] <sbalneav> as your ssh keys are probably out of sync.
[06:05] <moquist> ogra: ping-ga-ding
[06:05] <blueonyx> i copied the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow of the server into the chroot and i can login now in gnome on the thinclient : )
[06:06] <blueonyx> with the user from the server
[06:06] <sbalneav> wha?
[06:06] <blueonyx> yeah
[06:06] <sbalneav> did you actually chroot and install gnome on the thin client?
[06:07] <blueonyx> no its gnome from the edubuntu server thats why its called thin-client eh?
[06:07] <sbalneav> I have no idea what you're doing
[06:07] <blueonyx> i have edubuntu installed on one machine
[06:08] <blueonyx> and started the second machine as thin client
[06:08] <blueonyx> it gets its kernel and stuff from the first machine
[06:08] <sbalneav> then you don't need a passwd and shadow on the thin client.
[06:08] <sbalneav> I understand how a thin client works, I'm one of the LTSP developers.
[06:09] <blueonyx> it is in the directory /opt/ltsp/i386 on the server
[06:09] <sbalneav> Yeah, I wrote that stuff.
[06:10] <blueonyx> so after the boot on the thin client i saw a gdm login
[06:10] <blueonyx> i entered the username from the server koenig
[06:10] <blueonyx> nothing happens
[06:10] <blueonyx> so i copied the /etc/passwd to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ and restarted the thinclient
[06:10] <ogra> moquist, pongedipong ... (sorry, very busy sorting my travel stuff for tomorrow mornng)
[06:11] <blueonyx> then i entered the username again and it asked for a password
[06:11] <sbalneav> You probably just needed to restart the client, the passwd and shadow file were unneccessary.
[06:11] <sbalneav> did you also do the ltsp-update-sshkeys, like I said?
[06:13] <blueonyx> i restart the thin client
[06:14] <blueonyx> removed the passwd and shadow and ran ltsp-update-sskeys
[06:14] <sbalneav> you deleted the shadow and password file?!?!?!
[06:14] <blueonyx> no
[06:14] <blueonyx> restored the state before i copied the server's passwd to the chroot environment
[06:15] <sbalneav> ok, you'll need the old ones.
[06:15] <sbalneav> but you shouldn't need the users info down on the thin client.
[06:15] <sbalneav> that all comes from the server.
[06:15] <moquist> ogra: hey! 
[06:16] <sbalneav> moquist: he's probably on his way to Poland today.
[06:16] <cliebow_>  moquist:Ho
[06:16] <ogra> sbalneav, not yet ... but extremely busy sorting my travel stuff ...
[06:16] <sbalneav> Well, I was close :)
[06:20] <ogra> somehow the train i was booked for got shut down ... so i had to rebook all my stuff and get a flight etc ...
[06:21] <blueonyx> sbalneav, now the xserver on the thinclient restarts after entering the user and its password
[06:22] <blueonyx> the login screen turns into black with a white circle in the middle (yeah mouse seems not to work) and after a while the login screen comes back
[06:23] <sbalneav> You're using the default lts.conf file, correct?
[06:24] <blueonyx> using the admin user from the server works not, but another user works : /
[06:24] <blueonyx> sure
[06:24] <sbalneav> Are you logged in on the server as the admin user?
[06:25] <sbalneav> Gnome doesn't like two people logged in at the same time as the same user.
[06:25] <sbalneav> If another user works, then it's OK
[06:25] <blueonyx> i dont use gnome on the server
[06:26] <blueonyx> just ssh
[06:26] <blueonyx> but this is a problem
[06:27] <ogra> yu need a desktop on the server, how else should ltsp work ?
[06:27] <blueonyx> it is installed
[06:27] <sbalneav> So you created another user, and logged in with that user, and it worked, right?
[06:28] <blueonyx> but i dont logging on that machine graphically, because there is no monitor for the server
[06:28] <blueonyx> sbalneav, right
[06:28] <sbalneav> ok, but if you log in as the admin user, it DOESN'T work, right?
[06:29] <blueonyx> hm if gnome cannot handle the same user logged in twice its not the right choice for me : /
[06:29] <blueonyx> right
[06:29] <sbalneav> Check the admin user's .xsession-errors file, see what it says.
[06:29] <blueonyx> i want to put edubuntu on 8 old machines for all students of my shool for surfing the internet
[06:29] <sbalneav> all logged in as the same user?
[06:30] <blueonyx> of course
[06:30] <sbalneav> That won't work, Firefox or mozilla won't start multple times, you'll have to have separate users.
[06:31] <blueonyx> damn right : /
[06:31] <blueonyx> whats with LDAP?
[06:31] <sbalneav> What about ldap?
[06:31] <blueonyx> we still have a netware server here ...
[06:32] <blueonyx> does ldap the job?
[06:33] <sbalneav> You could have the users picked up via ldap, yes.
[06:33] <sbalneav> depending on the ldap server.
[06:34] <blueonyx> and is combining this with the edubuntu thinclient and server possible?
[06:36] <sbalneav> Well, Ubuntu has all the ldap bits available, you'd just have to configure them.  What kind of ldap server is it?  A "standard" one, like openldap, or something like AD?
[06:36] <blueonyx> it's the ldap server of netware6
[06:36] <sbalneav> I run an OpenLDAP server here, and I run nothing but thin clients, all with LDAP authentication, so I know it can be done.
[06:37] <sbalneav> I'm not familiar with netware's LDAP server, you'd have to read up on it.
[06:37] <blueonyx> where to start?
[06:37] <sbalneav> Ummm, google?
[06:37] <blueonyx> k
[06:39] <sbalneav> Don't know, like I say, I'm unfamiliar with netware's LDAP server.
[06:40] <sbalneav> If you're not caring about actual usernames, why not just create users like "terminal1", "terminal2", etc, and just have them log in with that?
[06:42] <blueonyx> can a 1.4 ghz 512mb machine handle this?
[06:43] <blueonyx> for 8 machines
[06:43] <ogra> you need 256M for running the server and ~128M per attached client ... 
[06:43] <ogra> so that would give you 2, with luck even 3 clients ... you need more ram
[06:44] <ogra> (with luck== there are some overlaps, if everybody uses the same apps memory is shared a lot)
[06:47] <blueonyx> nkay
[07:02] <blueonyx> thank you so far
[07:03] <blueonyx> bye